Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023)

Hey, it's your old past lemon. Welcome to a special bonus episode of 70 M.M. with me as always is artist Danny Haas. Hello. And our Indiana Jones insider, PertileXs. Thank you. I should have said Mads Michelson insider just to get you riled up for this episode. I'm sweaty. Get you riled up. The real feel right now is we record this. Maybe you're listening on headphones. You can hear a fan of some kind. Just let us get through this recording. The real feel on the East Coast is very high. We're lucky to be alive in this climate right now. So two years later, we're completing the Indiana Jones journey. For those that are unaware, we did the first four movies on this podcast feed. You can search them up in your app and Proto released a very special audio recording dispatch just to our interns tier about your experiencing this movie. So I mean, are you excited to discuss the final journey of one Indiana Jones together with the three of us? Yes, I'm very excited. This should be a fantastic. Yeah, I released a, a little something I call a UFO and my unfinished film opinion right out of the theater. I just put on the voice memo app on my phone and just started talking and see where I could get with all the things that I was feeling coming out of that theater. All the moments, all the memorable moments that we experience in this movie. And I wanted to try to digest as best I could in preparation for this recording. The Indiana Jones real feel. Oh, if I could quote that UFO, there's a sickness in our film industry. Proto says we'll get into that in our discussion. Yeah. Let's see, is there another quote? I want, I'm ready to send Mads Michelson to the moon. But if you want to hear the rest, you got to subscribe, you got to become a patron to hear the rest of Proto's uncut thoughts. So I will keep a Lucy goosey. Maybe we'll have a top three. We'll go around the room. We've been waiting for this movie our whole lives. You know, people on Twitter and blue sky, whatever social media app that isn't crumbling right now, people complain about IP. IP, there's too much IP movies. People go into the well for IP. Proto, how do you feel about that? You agree? You on the fence about all this IP? I don't think so because I feel like there might be a lot of IP or studios retreading stuff for cash. But there's also a ton of, I don't know, the past few years. I can think of a ton of great original stories that have come out. So I don't really see it as a problem because it's, we're still getting like great original stories to it. People didn't open their eyes. This is what you're saying. Stop covering their own eyes. So this movie was announced in 2016. Did you know this? 2016 or the fifth Indiana Jones movie was announced in 2016 with Spielberg directing and releasing in 2019. What? Yeah. How crazy is that? Spielberg. Spielberg stepped down in 2020. It wasn't even that long. We're talking pandemic. He stepped down pandemic era. Spielberg stepped out and then mangled stepped in with a new script in the works. So let's say, Danny, you are the one who is starting to get nervous about this movie. So I think maybe we should start with you. You know, you were on the main show for people that don't listen. You were extremely nervous about this movie coming out. I think I was, that was the most nervous because of how bad it was being marketed. I didn't enjoy the trailers. I thought throwing in whatever old band music over an Indiana Jones story was a terrible idea. Just give us John Williams's amazing score and let's move on. Wasn't loving posters. How about the font on that poster? The font is all wrong. It's crooked ass logo. It's they, I don't want to talk about what they did to this. Did they not own the mark tight to the proper logo? Is there any possibility that it's like they took their, their curved, beautiful Indiana Jones logo and straightened out the curved letters, but left them curved. It was the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life. Coloneling. The Coloneling. I was nervous, but in the same, in the same breath, I just needed this movie to be better than dial or crystal skull. The bar was low enough, mangled all I had to a step over it for this film. I mean, can you imagine having like five more Indiana Jones movies and the bar is just crystal skull? We do live in the high life. The high life. Wait, hold on a second, but I like if you give me a little skull four stars. Yes, I liked crystal skull, but I feel like that's the line. Crystal skull is all I'm saying. Like, that's the line. That's the lowest you could go for an Indiana Jones movie. So if you meet that bar and you go higher than great, that's fantastic. I'll take crystal skull. Yeah, Pay attention, please. I'm trying to focus here. So what's the first thing you want to bring up about dialogue destiny, Danny? Let's get, let's talk about one of the biggest moments in this film, the first 30 minutes. Let's talk about the train scene, the de-aging. I love this moment in the film. I think it's an incredible moment. I think it is well shot, well directed, well performed. The de-aging doesn't work for me. Oh, wow. I was so distracted by it. I've seen this movie twice now. And every time I'm extremely distracted by the de-aging, I don't think it's, I don't think it looks bad. But I know what Harrison looks like now. I know what he looked like then. And I found myself looking for mistakes every time I watch this face on screen. And it just distracts from a really well crafted Indiana Jones moment. I think that whole train segment is amazing. It feels like Old Indiana Jones. But I think Brian Formo in his review stated it had the Irishman effect where it's the old body with the de-aged face. And you feel it. You feel, you feel old Harrison performing these moves and stuff while they're de-aging his face. They used his old voice, his current voice to change the voice. That was the big mistake that I thought. As soon as he opened my mouth, I was like, oh, they're using current day in his voice. You use some computers or something. It's a bit frustrating. But it's also a great moment. I think that whole segment is just an incredible action piece. And I don't know how you do it without it. Like I don't, you have old ND for so long in this film. How do you get good action segments from this? So this is, if you remove this moment from the film, I don't know. I don't think it'd be the same film. Or would you think of the train and the de-aging, the Irishman? Well, a little trivia for you. I don't know if you caught that, but that train was actually called the polar express. Is that real? Are you joking? I don't like this. Did you see how bad his body looked running across the top? Let me just say one thing. Him running on the top of the train, maybe the worst moment in the history of Indiana Jones, cinematic. That was all fake. All fake. Yeah. I mean, it looked terrible. James and I were laughing in the audience when they showed indeed running on top of the train. Whoever did the animation for that, get them out of here. I'm sorry. I can't believe you brought up polar express, too, because that's what I was thinking about watching that whole segment. That's why I mentioned it, because it did give me that uncanny feeling with his face. Even the way it was de-aged, it looked different from different angles, too. Sometimes it looks really good, and then other times it looked like it was like mushed or something strange going on. But I think the de-aging revolution has begun. And I don't know. I wouldn't say I hated it. I guess I don't mind it. And I wouldn't be opposed to doing more stuff like this. I think it'll just get better, hopefully. Question mark, maybe not, because now that I say that, I feel like we've kind of gone backwards with CGI in the past few years, so who knows where we're going in terms of inequality? I thought the CGI de-aging on his face, like that reveal in those close-up. I thought that was the best de-aging I've ever seen. Best CGI I've ever seen. Not even close. But then when as soon as he opened his mouth, it almost like was deflate.gift for me, where I was like, man, you had it. You almost nailed it. And then there was some angles of him turning his face like, oh, yes, this is not really him. Him getting out of the water was probably the closest that I came to maybe like the Irishman type thing. But it was better than Irishman. And I know that's a low bar. But the CGI of his face, like it didn't feel like, I'm trying to think of like some other de-aging stuff that's happened recently. Like the main alluring is the one thing that jumps out of me. And the main alluring, it's like not even the same league I felt like, like some of the face stuff. Yeah, the Luke stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not even comparable how good this look compared to Luke in any of those main alluring episodes. So I was pretty into it. When he came out of the water after jumping off the plane, all I could think of was the Incredibles. When Dash comes out of the water, screaming, we're going to die. That's how bad the CGI looked like looking at it from Pixar. Yeah, I let her box show did a Indiana Jones spectacular episode. We did all five movies with like the crew. And I felt like I think I said on that episode that the CGI budget 90% of the CGI budget went to the de-aging because like there's a bunch of other like CGI stuff that I'm like, yeah, like the backdrops. I don't know if it was volume stuff later in the movie, but part of what's the first thing you want to bring up? First thing on my my list is this movie gave me CGI paranoia where there's so much of it. And I feel like at this point with movies, it's so spread throughout that you could tell me that every single thing in this movie is fake. Like it's all CGI and I believe you. You could tell me that it's like 50%. I'd be like, okay, so as I'm watching this, I can't tell like what's real and what's not. I mean, there's some stuff that's it's like, okay, totally obviously fake, but then there's certain things where it just feels like anywhere where they can possibly use CGI, they will. And it gives me like this weird anxiety as I'm watching something that I can't tell like what's real and what's not. Interesting. You can't like focus on what's happening. You're too concerned with wondering. Well, yeah, I don't I don't know. Yeah, I guess that's it's like not a bad thing, but I guess before there was like such a clear line where you could just like you would know that like, oh, they can do this with cars like real cars. So they will. But like even like that chase scene in 10 years, it's like, this is all fake, right? Like they didn't use anything real in this scene. And then like that affects what I think of the stunt. And maybe that's what it is. Like when I'm watching an action movie, when you know like nothing is real, it kind of loses its value in my mind as I'm watching it. I don't think it's as compelling because it's like, oh, well, this is just you know, just fake. And especially because they lean so hard into just things being so fantastical and ridiculous. Like that chase scene, they do in like the golf carts or whatever. Like everyone died in that scene 20 times over. Like there's no way any of this like makes any sense. And I think that was like one of the things I didn't like about this is that like in the previous indie movies, like they do stunts and things, but they're done at a pace. And they're done in like a real setting, like the tank scene and crusade with with Harrison Ford. You know, like that's all like real. It's all practical. And of course, it's not like a real tank or whatever. But it at least looks real. But then like the stuff with like the speed at which they're moving in that chase scene, just you can just tell it's all fake. So as I'm watching this whole movie, I just had like this weird feeling of like what's what's real and what's fake and not knowing. Wait until the back behind the scenes comes out and that entire chase scene is like probably a hundred percent practical. And they just like added Indie's face onto the stunt man or something. I actually this that chasing almost felt like too real to be in an indie movie for me. And I felt like that was like the mangled Ford Ferrari effect in the back of my head that like this feels like a legit chasing, but it didn't have any that whimsy that I want in those chase scenes. It's not like the mining car stunt, you know, like that felt like I think I said in previous episodes that like all the big chase scenes feel like they could be stunt shows. And that's what I like remember loving about the indie stuff. But like that like taxi car scene, you know, this doesn't feel like a stunt show thing. It just feels like a real car chase. And Indian is India's in it. So I didn't love that that big car chase scene personally. Danny, what do you think? I think I think I think I was grinning most of the time with joy watching it. But for me, most of not just this scene, but most of the action scenes are good 10 minutes too long. Like the tuk tuk scene is fun. And then it wears its welcome pretty quick. Like we're get it. You're driving around in little tuk tuk and they were driving this car for one hour. It was long seen. And it doesn't I don't think it looks bad. It does give off the we're just sitting in someone bouncing chairs while green screen is around us effect when they're yelling at each other across tuk tuk and I don't know. I had fun with it, but there is the wearing its welcome real quick wearing it out. I mean, the movie is long. It's almost three. It's almost three hours. And I was thinking to myself, there were some fun stuff where Phoebe will get into her character, but I almost felt like the auction stuff. Like if you cut out anything, I feel like a lot of her backstory being kind of like this black market seller, you could probably cut out a lot of that. And you could still go at a pretty good clip in this movie. But again, you cut out some of Phoebe's backstory. So maybe just cut our whole character out. Oh, I think we know we're going into next. Let's get into my number one. I'll talk about Phoebe, Phoebe's character, the goddaughter of our sweet boy from the Jurassic World franchise, Toby Jones, as Basil Shaw. I also love how like leaves these later these later movies. Indy just has like random old dude friends that appear and have been a part of his life for so long. It happened in Crystal Skull. Happens here. I also just real quick say that I love them in the beginning of the movie searching for the Holy Lance that pierced the side of Jesus on the cross. Like that's a long, long, long, long genus. The cool thing about that was that was originally in the first Raiders script by Cazodon. And then Dark Horse has what's it called the spear of destiny. They did a four comic run of the spear of destiny where they go searching for this with Henry senior and Salah. Oh my god. So it's been in the indie, it's been in the indie kind of roar for a while. So it was really it was really cool to see it in this film because I didn't remember right away what I had heard it from. But I remember now that was from the the Dark Horse comics when I looked it back up. So Phoebe's character, the goddaughter appears, is looking for the dial, the half of the dial of destiny that she believes might have been destroyed, but indie kept it and she steals it and is on the run and you eventually find her trying to sell it to the highest bidder. You know, the daughter of Basil has gone down the wrong road apparently and even though she's quite knowledgeable she's still selling this stuff trying to for cash. And a lot of her plot is is that like she doesn't seem like a good guy. So to speak she's more shades of gray, but by the end of the movie she's like obviously good and she turns a corner. I don't know how I feel about her character in this movie. I wish there was a little bit more maybe her being upset at how like her dad's life turned out that maybe she as and that's why she didn't give a crap about some of these artifacts and that was she was like willing to sell them like maybe show me a little bit more as opposed to inferring why she's gone down this path. Part of it sounds like you have some thoughts on on this character. Yeah, I didn't like her character at all. It just seems so silly and like poorly thought out like what first of all like why does he need to have a goddaughter? Like why does she need to be related to him in this way? I obviously to like form some connection that like he wants to protect her and cares for her and his is you know who's now Pat his friend bozzle who has passed but like I don't understand her character at all. She tries to kill indie like four different times in this movie and then at the end she's like oh no you have to come back you have to come back as if like she cares about him at all but like there's her character shows no like connection or caring for him other than to get what she wants. It's so like lopsided and it's I think like the storytelling I just like him caring for her but her not caring but somehow they're still like in I don't know. There's something between them where it doesn't seem like it's earned at all. And then I just I just like ever all her like little quips and stuff it just like came off as like so flat like there's like no chemistry to me between her and Harrison at all and then her her sidekick like what are we doing that was bad. Teddy you talking about Teddy is that the kid's name. It was I'm sorry but I think it was. Danny what about Wombat and you. Well it's funny you say Wombat. I didn't like that he called her Wombat. I thought that was weird that he had a nickname for her before we barely knew the character. It was it was just an interesting choice. I like her a lot in this film. I think I think she kind of harkens back to how I felt about Marion. I think she was a she was a little bit more involved obviously than Marion. She wasn't some I like that she wasn't a damsel in distress for this film that Andy didn't have to save her. She ends up kind of saving him. But that's kind of it. I wasn't terribly in love with her but I didn't hate it at the same time. I thought it was kind of fun just a fun character. Yeah I guess it does like her character selling the antiquities does make a little bit of sense in like the modern world where Andy is where like think they even talk about him being kind of like out of place where the world has passed him by and she's trying to sell that stuff. No one cares about the stuff anymore. I got to sell to make money. That's my life in 1969 or whatever. So I can see that as their approach to that character whether or not it actually was executed that well is another story I think. Danny, next on your list. I want to talk about the man of the hour. Mads meckleson. Oh get into it. I love Mads. I love Mads as an actor. I like that he plays these kind of bad guys. I love him and casino Royale. My problem with him in this is I don't feel that his villainous character is fleshed out enough for us to care about his motives. I don't I feel like his motives are so convoluted that by the time we get to when they use the dial of destiny that I can barely make out the fact that he wants to go back to kill Hitler to become what Hitler couldn't become for the Nazi regime. Like it's I don't understand why that isn't spelled out from the get go with this character that this is his in game and this is what he's trying to do. It's just like it let's race for this Muguffin. Let's go find this dial. And then in the last 20 minutes before we get to the siege of of whatever Syracuse, we finally figure out that he's wanting to not kill anyone in America, whatever Indy was saying, Roosevelt or Ike or whatever, not Roosevelt, that he wants to go back and replace Hitler. Like that adding that kind of in at the end was I didn't feel was warranted or earned. I feel like it should have been written. His his character needed to be more fleshed out than anyone's in the film, I believe. Yeah, he had those scenes when we had the the the black waiter or the black guy that worked at the hotel. Like they had that a few of those scenes where he's like you guys didn't win Hitler lost. I think was the line. So it's almost like a lot more was subtly inferred in the plot than we're used to in Indiana Jones movies. We're used to like having mad saying like Hitler should have won. I will do what Hitler couldn't do. Like he wouldn't say that in the first scene to one of his associates. And a lot of it was just kind of like reading between the lines which is very different for for this franchise, I think. No Indy villain has ever been subtle. In the Indy franchise. And so the final movie. Yeah. Did he even have a scar after he hit that like post on the train? No. That was going to be F up. Yeah. I was going to have like a metal plate on the side of his face. Like this old skull. I patch and I patch would have been baller. What I saw him come back perfectly fine. I was like, Oh, they're going to show more of him using this dial going back. Right. Like not getting hurt or something. I don't know. Yeah. I do got clocked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. I said that in my dispatch. But I don't I don't really have a problem with Mads. I think it's more of it was like this character because I agree. He's not really fleshed out. And I think it took me out of it. The fact that in the other movies like the villains have like an army backing them up to kind of travel the world and for Indy to either like track Indy down or for Indy to like hide within their numbers. In this it's like Mads and like three stages. And I read a review. Someone said it kind of felt like the bad guys were just teleporting to wherever Indy was. Like it didn't really make any sense of like how they moved around or got anywhere or like who was I mean they were supported by the CIA I guess at the beginning. So but it just it felt like weak. It felt like these this pack of goons just somehow magically following Indy around. So I didn't really love how that was played out. I mean to be fair that I feel like that does happen a lot in the other ones where like was it last crusade where they're just always one step behind Indy. He just solves all the puzzles and they're like right behind him like oh yes let's continue following Indy as he solves this for us. Yeah I like the idea of like him being hidden by the CIA you know and working on the rockets you know that kind of like realistic storyline of the Nazis embedded in our government like being our scientists. I didn't love the horse race the horse runaway scene and even we I think of him in the trailer came out we were like like yawning when they showed Indy on the galping horse and his head his face was like obviously glued on computer wise to the snotman's and that scene was in the movie still like they I would have just completely removed that. But like I guess one of my points is I mean me personally like I'm kind of like bashing all of this stuff but there's just like I don't know if it's the fog of nostalgia and Indy and growing up with this character that like you don't need to give me that much good for me to still have a great time right like it's bonkers how and I've seen this like the thread on social media that people are like saying oh there's so many problems but still great time in the movies and then those people are like you need to go watch a good movie or something and like I do I watch other movies and I like them but I still like want what Indiana Jones gave me as a kid and I'm still like able to to think in my head that I still got it in this movie and it happened in the final act not the whole thing but this is just it's just weird to like listen to myself critique it so hard and still think to myself that I had a great time at the end of the movie I don't know like I wonder what I would have thought if I was watching Indiana Jones and last crusade when it come out or like if I was in seeing that in theaters because I remember when crystal skull came out I critiqued the hell out of it and then later I was like you know what this is actually still fun and I'm okay with it I'm not a part of do you have any thoughts on on that kind of the perspective this character and and kind of almost being more forgiving yeah well I I agree um well I like I had fun with this movie too I think like I think you're right like you don't have to it doesn't have to give you much to be to have a good time and to kind of like bask in the reality and this was actually one of my thoughts when when I sat down when I sat down and Harrison finally appeared on the screen I was like dang I'm watching a movie in 2023 a new movie with Harrison Ford who is I mean he's like an icon you know right like this is guy is a living legend in in Hollywood I mean he's Han Solo like it's incredible that we're still watching movies with with him and I think like if I to like meet an actor in person like I think he's one of like the few actors that I would really be like star struck by to like see him because he almost feels larger than life so the fact that we can sit down and watch a movie like this is cool but I think the thing almost is I wonder if we feel this way about like Indiana Jones is because right now I don't feel like we have any kind of like new franchises that were in the midst of that give us you know the same feeling that we get with someone like this like is like is there any equivalent of like Indiana Jones in the last 10 years of like a character for film that is like equivalent to that and it maybe if we had more like amazing trilogies that were in production with like these these amazing stars that we really love with these movies that we thought were five stars incredible experiences you know classics then maybe when an Indiana Jones movie came along and be like well we don't really need that because we have this other stuff but maybe because we're so like desperate to have that feeling of like a classic again is why we are more accepting I'm not following that I mean it's he's right on I I could really agree with you Proto and for me it's also this nostalgia fog as well I just wanted to see Harrison as Indy on the big screen with John Williams' score and I got that and I had an amazing time watching it and I'd get a little weepy when Marion's theme plays are at the end are you kidding me are you kidding when he starts talking about what he would change with the dial it's telling his son not to go to war and dying and it ruins his marriage like that that even that performance to get that out that emotion out of Harrison I don't think we get Harrison that emotional in any of the Indian Jones films that weepy kind of vulnerable Indiana Jones I really appreciated that scene so I think for me all I needed was the Raiders March and Indy with a whip and I think Harrison also looks like he's having a great time in this film I think he plays Indy really well better than he did in crystal skull I think his character is treated well with the proper you know aging of him as a hero I think a crystal skull he did too much that didn't make sense for how old he was at the time but for this I just I just liked being along for the ride and yeah I just I appreciate what we got I was remember reading about some of the earlier movies about how like Lucas and Spielberg like this was their version of like the cereals that they grew up watching right how's think about what you mentioned earlier purple like what's our version of the Indiana Jones movies like I don't know everyone is thinking about a certain company that's making a lot of movies right now I'm not even going to bring them up but I don't I don't know I don't view them as that because I don't think they're that great I feel like there's something else that should be made now that is like you know I grew up watching the Indiana Jones movies this is this is why I made this character that's why I made these movies what is that what is that now and I don't I don't know if it's there yet like we we did get some flashes of genius in those movies that I refuse to name but you know they're mostly crap now so I I feel like we're still waiting for for something I mean those are still based on stuff that's based on commercial that's true so it's like new where's where's our where's our Spielberg and Lucas these days creating new characters based on stuff that they grew up on like we don't have that so we hold on to Indy as far as we can as long as we can should we end the show right after that it's a least I don't really have a whole lot outside of humble mentions um did you like the story that's what I would like to know yeah I love I love this story the the dial the company the crypt and there he's got the watch yeah and then the talons on the outside of the coffin yeah that stuff what I was like drooling when they were talking about that stuff I was like oh my god it's happening and then like the fissures in time and then going through and when Teddy Teddy like flying a plane I was like why is Teddy need to get in a plane and then they go through the time vision was like oh he's probably gonna have to get them out of there they need a second plane um but then landing at the time frame they did I was like oh my god this is awesome like I was in total awe I thought it was so fun if it's perfectly in this character like all these stories it just felt right him wanting to stay and then her punching him was probably her my favorite scene of hers because I wasn't sure I was like is he gonna stay and then I was like oh what about Marion is he gonna try to like make a man so I love the story and then the ending I thought was like movie magic like Marion showing up to the ending I mean you can't in my opinion you can't come up with a better ending for this character and this bit oh nice wow wow before proto gets into it I get it I loved the the arcing story of the dialogue destiny I like the idea that Archimedes had created something that could uh I mean even the whatever it was called the antithesis or whatever that's that's a real thing in a museum in Athens you can go see that has gears and etc like I like that it's subtly based on realism like some sort of actual prop like even even the items from you know the the grail in the in the cup of Christ and all that kind of stuff like it's it's loosely based on things that could exist I like that they did that with this film um and I when they went through time and ended up at at at where they did it and Sicily I was shocked that they even had the guts to do that that that was pretty balsy I honestly thought we were going to see dinosaurs I did I wasn't sure what the mistake was going to be I knew there was going to be a mistake going through but I didn't know where they're ending up but I liked that uh it it was like subtly hinted at along the way that this is where the end up when she sees the propeller the props on the on the phoenix and when indie catches mad's putting on the watch like oh that's the watch we saw in year to in the tomb like oh this is oh where we are way off course continental drift et cetera et cetera he would never have known about that I love that when they present the dial to to um argument Archimedes um that he was like oh was you were supposed to bring this back to me two thousand years or so et cetera I just like like that kind of stuff um I'm glad they didn't bother showing us them trying to fly the plane back through the fissure because that I wouldn't that would have been a waste of time it would have made no sense because I wouldn't yeah but I enjoyed it I enjoyed this story a lot I think it works better than crystal skull even though I like the alien storyline I think that just there's something about this that worked really well for me Indiana Jones in the multiverse of bad now just kidding I like the story a lot too honestly I felt kind of stupid that I didn't think that like think like oh maybe Indiana Jones will travel through time which is something he hasn't done which now seems so obvious to have in an Indiana Jones movie um so yeah and I love the dial to like the dial is a prop was so cool the time anytime like there's gears and stuff moving on screen you know I'm salivating so that yeah I thought the whole the way they set it up having to find his tomb um even like when they go to the shipwreck in the in in the ocean even though I don't think that looked that great um it was no way I went to the bathroom I went to the bathroom during that did you really yeah I had to I just wish I wish they wouldn't have wasted our time with eels that no one cared oh yeah go find the the Mcuffin come back up with it and move on took too much time yeah but yeah so I really like the story too I thought it was super lame that she punched him to bring him back I kind of wish he stayed I thought that would been like a good way like thank you have him on the seaside there just like a little stone hut with his hat like on the chair and how he goes out I mean he's like 85 he's dead in a couple of years anyway I see have to go back I thought the mutt dying and Vietnam stuff was crazy like I wasn't expecting that and then when she appears with the groceries at the end I was oh god it was like it's this is happening and you know I'm starting to get teary eyed at that ending what I'll never understand about the story and I honestly I think it's the biggest misstep why why was short-round not in this film yeah I don't understand yeah bringing back Sala bringing back Marion we have all of these they even they even walk through bugs and there's so many nods to Temple of Doom why was he not in this film like I that's it just doesn't make sense to me I don't understand the mindset of not bringing short-round back I mean even when like let's just say your James mangled maybe you're like key key who we're going to do anything we're not bringing it back then everything everywhere all once comes out it's got to be shooting so you're like Oscar the Oscar buzz was like yeah what if we reshoot do something you know can he be carrying the second bag groceries right oh my god I still would have had the shells and like he appears and then maybe there maybe it's like a soon that they're friends and then it's not like a big shock that keys there and he's like oh short round thanks to see again oh like it's normal that they're seeing each other yes and that's it and then like oh then he goes out with them to leave them alone the two of them it just if it's like one of the biggest missed opportunities that I can think of after solid came on screen I was like oh short rounds appearing like he is going to have to show up in the next 20 minutes there's no way they're not going to have him in this movie uh and the yeah the fact that we got goddaughter and not short-round now I'm sitting I mean listen can you imagine let's listen over and there's fancy oh my god imagine it's it's replaced you replace Phoebe with with key and then we're talking greatest moment in the history of movies she as the sucky and indie and the dial of destiny and you just try to look maybe key goes down the wrong path maybe key is auctioning off these things can you oh my god and they're in the dark by star rating they're in the talk talk together you know going through the streets oh my god yeah I can't believe it wetting myself right now uh let me see if I have any honorable mentions that we left out mutt dead love it and tonio rest in peace and tonia manderes hot little casting choice um but if antonio was short-round I mean yeah any character yeah just yeah let's not get rid of the the the female lead can you imagine the reveal that it was you know maybe keys back is turned on the docks actually turns out of a puddle a puddle if you turned around either had to be something maybe key didn't want to film during covid maybe it was a covid thing maybe he might like I mean that's no I don't believe it every every bit of video I've seen of key at these premieres he would have done anything to have been somebody screwed up big time and I'm going to have to go ahead and assume it was Kathleen Kennedy oh just say right now I'm not saying that alleged somebody made somebody made a bad call maybe it wasn't Kathleen maybe it was James Mangold blame Bob Eiger Bob Eiger that's why I want to blame his little sweaters around Disney I'm gonna blame Steven Spielberg okay all right some good pick so we'll see who's right the other comments below so let's see Danny what's your what's your honorable mentions star rating um um um you know I don't have terribly too many honorable mentions we talked about a lot star rating I think I know I put a five star on letterboxed as that's how I felt coming out I think if I'm being honest with myself this is four stars this is a four star say very good time this is the Indiana Jones not that I wanted but I knew that we'd get we needed better than than crystal skull to go out with and it's a good story it's a fun time it's a bit too long I love Harrison um grateful that we saw John Williams with us to get us through this last film so four stars for me okay you know it's crazy how much I like I watched crystal skull again last week of week before I had so much fun rewatching crystal skull it's it's it's growing on me even more than I was expecting and I liked it two years ago when we watched it for the show but it's it's now like slotted in the franchise pretty well for me yeah quadrilogy yeah I I had a lot of fun we talked about the nostalgia fog the last act is fantastic four stars for me for dial destiny proto my second point you know I don't know where it started maybe it was the force awakens where it came upon us it's it's it feels like we can't escape it but the self-omaging that goes on with these returning to IP movies returning to these franchises it's so in your face and it's so like all consuming inside of these movies now um and I'm just curious as to like why that is and I'm sure it's because you know in the theater Easter eggs they get laughs you know mentioning the past movies gets laughs you know redoing the line from a past movie gets a laugh and maybe it just makes people feel good but it also feels why I was watching I felt like they're almost just like checking off a list of things that they need to do that's like in an Indiana Jones movie between like the way the action you know set pieces work out the characters even what's his name the the sidekick Phoebe side Teddy like just even like having that because it's like a clear reference to like Indian short-round right um and like it feels like that's the reason it's in the movie not because it makes for like good storytelling but it's like because we need to have all of these different things that were in the previous movie to make sense and I and I don't it I don't think it used to bother me maybe as much like because I'm watching the force awakens and been like who cares and maybe it's because it's a different movie and I mean like I don't know why but like watching this it just it felt like the whole creative process is trapped inside of just being self-referential that they can't even escape and do something new because in this and maybe you don't need to right like you don't like you're saying like as well it's an Indiana Jones maybe people come here for the same thing they don't want something new um but I don't know like if you watch crusade and you feel like oh this is just like an homage or just like replicating the other ones and I haven't rewatched you know um this year so so maybe maybe it does feel like that maybe it just feels like they're all kind of the same but this it just felt like like what if someone were to take the Indiana Jones franchise and kind of escape out of that almost give it like a different tone or or do something so it feels fresh that it's not just referencing the the other stuff um so maybe I mean maybe I'm alone here but I just felt like a little overwhelmed by all of that I mean I don't think you're in the minority because I mean the average rating is on this 3.1 on letterbox so I feel like they're I mean also the books all of us apparently it didn't do so hot or whatever making a lot of won't make its money back or whatever so I don't think you're alone in that me personally though I felt like it was outside of the tried and true formula like not having Spielberg and Lucas I felt like it was apparent that they really didn't have much to do with this and it did feel like a fresh or different take on indie yes there were some omajas or whatever but I didn't feel like it really like matched not matched but like I don't feel like it was identical to the previous four you know like they have a vibe the previous four this one has a different vibe I think hmm how about the direct homage to the rocket tier when you fix the engine with a with gum oh my god he like called out some kind of compound that's in gum in 10 years yeah 10 years gum only has that genius what's your third what's your third point brother well I guess we kind of covered all my points um was there anything that we missed let me look at the plot of this movie first get the plot out you know this is one of those we're in theaters hard to take notes you know we're not sitting on our couch as we watch this I did have speaking of your homages and Teddy I did have my eyebrow moment when they gave Teddy's backstory the exact same backstory as short rounds where she met him because he was pickpocketing her like that's that's how he met indie so there's that laziness I didn't really understand mad michaelson's goons um I guess you don't really need to but the the the the beginning it almost felt like they were gonna play the one guy was gonna play like more of a role but then like he didn't have any lines later on I did think it was like super goofy but I loved it like when they're in the airplane they're all putting on Nazi uniforms yeah um that was so goofy but he's also the bad guy in Logan or he's one of the henchmen oh and he's the lead in predator the predator the one that was a bomb came out of layers ago um what else uh I did love seeing you know indie punch nazis again at the beginning like that was great to be back there um but yeah I had a good time you know I didn't love it I think there's like a bunch of issues as I've gone over with it um um but I give it three stars it's good wow okay so you know it's good fog fog let the fog wash over you would you say better than crystal yeah what's your rating on crystal skull do you remember I gave that three stars too but um I I reread my review for that and I think like I really like the first half but then like when the family drama stuff started I kind of fell off so I think I'd have to revisit to see which I like more the four days I have friends putting dial at the bottom I saw a review I saw like a half friends putting dial above some the original trilogy why I'm just the the spectrum of this reviews for this film are kind of all over the place I will call out former guest on this very podcast our water world app yeah we did water will fantastic I was a trader Brandon yeah uh dressed up went to the premiere the premier didn't invite me didn't invite Danny no I'll always stand up for my friends not inviting Danny to that premiere was a mistake thank you bad decision yeah there was ten indies at this premiere they're all dressed up I think he gave you like a half star on letter box one and a half stars one and a half stars toward up you imagine dressing up as the lead character of the movie and having a one and a half stars like it's got to be just earth shattering yeah to write that you invited the wrong person Lucas from how about this that first line of his review you know it's going to be bad as always just my personal opinions Brandon do what he was doing nightmare nightmare way to start a review all right we finished it we finished the journey we did it there's never going to be another Indiana Jones movie as long as we live ever I don't ever I don't know what that's it we finished um I hope everyone enjoyed this journey it's been years in the making finally closed it out the three of us together I hope everyone had a great time at the movies where do you have a great time at the movies we're just don't be I got that Dolby ticket mm-hmm I'm a Dolby boy feel comfortable saying that what should go Dolby never go back I've read that yeah on red it all right we'll see everybody next time thanks for listening 70 millimeter is a tape deck production featuring original artwork provided by Danny Haas spiritual guidance and vizier the robot who loves movies provided by portal exes producer at large Dale underscore a transcripts provided by Sophie shin and music composed by cinematic prince and other merch are available on 70 mm pod dot com this episode was mixed edited and produced by me slim support our patreon for access to our vhs village discord to talk movies with new friends access to our exclusive episodes in the 70 millimeter vault discounts on merch uncut episodes and a physical membership card mailed to you to check out other tape deck podcasts find the link in the episode notes and if you'd like to support our friends at letterbox and upgrade to pro or patron status you can do so with a 20 percent off discount using the links on 70 mm pod dot com