Becoming a Medium (with Deb Sheppard)

Hi, all Nicole here. This podcast is intended to inspire you on your personal spiritual journey to inner peace. I am not a psychologist or a medical doctor and do not offer any professional health or medical advice. This applies to the podcast guests and or co-hosts. If you are suffering from a psychological or medical condition, please seek help from a qualified health professional. You are listening to A Psychic Story, a podcast that shares behind the scenes insights of people who lead supernatural lives among the ordinary. And I'm your host, Nicole Bigley. Join me every Wednesday as I dispel the mist behind magic and lore. Welcome to A Psychic Story. Mysticism. Hello, psychic listeners. Welcome to another episode of A Psychic Story. And for this episode, I have back on Deb Shepherd, who is an acclaimed psychic medium spiritual teacher and best selling author. And if you want to hear her story, you can go back to episode 38. She is what I call an OG psychic story guest, original guest, way back in the day where she was supportive of me. So again, if you haven't listened to that episode, highly encourage you to go back and do so. But we talked about intuitive dream interpretation as well, which will probably come through a little bit here there in the conversation we have today. But I want to say welcome, Deb. I'm just so glad to be back. So thank you for having me and hosting this. And really appreciate and great success for you. So applaud all of your hard work. Oh, thank you. It's people like you and also our spirit team members that have supported us. And the topic that we're going to talk about is becoming a medium. But because it's been a while since we chatted last like so just for everybody else that's listening, Devon, I've stayed in touch. She's somebody that I just really admire. And so this is more for us also to catch up with all of you listening to. And I would love to do that a little bit before we get into the topic becoming a medium. So tell me a little bit about what you've been up to from last episode, which was like almost two years ago. I got married. Oh, that's right. Yes. I mean, I know I said, yes, congratulations. I said that to you guys separately before. But for listeners, yes, that's amazing. And we are just we're launching more of our teaching. I just love to teach. And so we have more programs regarding that. And working on behind the scenes, you know, another book, things like that that we all do to keep everything afloat. But I think just kind of living a balanced life as much as possible. Yes, yes. Well, I want to definitely talk about your book and some of the other things as well as like your courses. But the other thing I saw that you launched, I want to say it feels a little bit a while ago. But it was, you know, tell us about grieving to believe in. And this is a medium's mission to bring parents peace. You had that on YouTube and you provided that. So where did that start? What was the genesis of that idea that made you, you know, feel led to start to put that together? I think there is a niche out there for a lot of individuals who have lost children. I think people are well, we're not designed to bury our children. And so part of our direction was to really connect with parents and give them some healing and know that their kids were around. And I think people can be really inappropriate or not understanding how to support parents who have lost children. There are things that are said. And so this was to really help parents and devote our time and energy to helping parents because we feel like we're responsible. We're supposed to protect them. We're not supposed to let them get hurt. And so there's a lot of guilt regarding parents with the loss of a child. Why didn't I know that this was going on in their lives? Or they were so sick I would have replaced, you know, their situation. And so for a lot of parents, I think that are in fear that they're going to hear that they did something wrong or they could have done things differently. I think the show really helped parents to get that peace and to fill their children and to get that validation that their children are still with them. And with other loved ones, maybe grandparents or great grandparents or other things. So that they knew that their children were not alone. But I think also they were from ages from in New to Road to in their 40s and 50s. So it doesn't matter the age of a child. A parent is not supposed to be burying a child. I would love to hear a little bit about how you came up with the idea. So, you know, was it something that you had been thinking about for a while that spirit led you to do a combination of both? How did that come about? I would love to take full credit, but I'm fortunate that I do have a team. I think part of it is I have a lot of friends I've connected with that have lost children. And so we through that their experiences of the healing that they received. We sort of built on that. So for instance, we're doing a fundraiser that we've been involved with for years. They had lost their daughter from Sudep, which is sudden unexpected death from epilepsy. And they raised money to bring awareness to the community, but to have seizure response dogs, monitors, things like that to help families. And with that said, I think we really realized the impact by having readings that they could continue their child's legacy through, you know, helping other people. Well, it was really well done. So I encourage anyone who may not have seen it to go back and start breaking. Yeah, I know it is. Yeah, when I saw it launch and started to watch all the episodes, not that I've been through that, but I could just feel it. But I also saw the conversations and how they were so healing for people. Like what you were saying, which was really the purpose of it. And, you know, getting, you know, a little bit not off topic, but there are unfortunately are people out there who capitalize and take advantage of people who are going through grief. And through the mediumship, and especially I would imagine parents in the loss of a child. And so the fact that you were able to touch those topics in a sensitive way, as well as I think people who, even if they were not participating in that. Just to see it. There's a healing that also comes from watching and listening to it. And I think one thing that is really impactful doing this work all these years is kids are really strong energetically. And they love to show signs to their family. They said that it mess with technology. They love to turn on the radio and, you know, flip the lights as well as move things. And so for a lot of parents, having a reading from, like you said, an ethical medium. They start then having those connections and get validation that their child is still with them. And we're talking all ages, it doesn't matter if they were in utero. Or if they were, you know, in their 40s and 50s, the child will still try to have that strength to let the parent know I'm okay. I'm here. Especially with things that we feel like are out of our control with the loss of these kids. Parents want to feel like their job is to ultimately protect them. So it helps a lot of healing in their heart, for sure. And I want to get back to that a little bit later. Maybe we can talk about a favorite story or favorite example of how someone got their parents attention. But I want to put before we get into all of that, I would love to hear from you about mediumships. So for people that aren't familiar and this should be a really easy question here. But what is a medium? What's a psychic? What is a psychic medium? How do you distinguish and or define those? Yeah, it's an easy answer, but it's not always easy to do. I think everyone is intuitive. We all have an intuitive feeling, a gut feeling, a knowing about something. We know something that doesn't feel right. So we may not use the same language that you and I may use, but there is that language that's out there. We see animals, we see children that are highly intuitive and they know when there's danger or when there's something going on or something doesn't feel right. It's time goes on. I think we're told to ignore that. So psychic is just that you're just tuned in. You know, you have this feeling. Mediumship is the ability and the way we're wired, I think, is we're wired to be able to feel souls or connect with souls. And it's basically a link between them communicating and understanding their language because the soul communicates like we can feel a vibe from somebody. But they don't have vocal cords if we look at someone that's that's passed. So how do they communicate? So we fine tune that ability so we can understand what they're trying to say. And we all have body language. Well, I mean, this is not something that's unusual. We all have body language. We have a sense of things. And so it's just the getting it to that real intense detail so that people know that we're giving messages. I love the way you frame frame that because I say that it's like our instincts intuition. And we, like you said, discounted as we grow up or as we're taught to ignore it. And so, you know, when somebody says, oh, my God, intuition or my gut was just telling me something. There's that. But then I also enjoyed how you explained more understanding. I feel like that presence and how that may look and feel differently for different people. So that's kind of my next question is what does it feel like to be a medium? Or maybe it's not feeling as much as experiencing because different people, like you said, may experience it in different ways. Absolutely. I don't think people realize that it can be very exhausting. So I do turn it off. Like it do not disturb sign. Yeah, absolutely. Like, what do you feel around me? I'm like, I'm not turning this on. I was just on a radio show and they said, so when do you turn on? I said, tell me when to turn on. And it really is, I don't want to be wired all the time to picking up souls or people who fast. So that part of it can be really tiring. But the other part is I'm really honored. I'm humbled by the ability to be a messenger to give someone that sense of peace, especially if there wasn't closure or it was tragic when someone has a lot of guilt. So for me, I've been doing this for over two decades and I still to this day. I was telling, you know, my wife the other day said, I still am in gratitude in an awe that I can be a messenger. And I think that's, there's an eagle part of I want to know that I have confidence. But I am always at all that I'm able to relate from the other side to the people here. So always at all. Thank you for sharing that. And then for you, and I know we talked about this back on episode 38, but how does it manifest or show up? And then, you know, again, for other people, it may show up or manifest in different ways. What are some things that you teach or explain to people that they more medium abilities and how they show up? I've got some funny stories with these. I think it really depends on the soul. I mean, there are times I remember being in a gallery reading, which means there's, you know, a couple hundred people in the audience. And this person's father came through and I said, well, all I'm getting is he's sitting in a recliner with a beer watching everybody go, that's exactly him. So you want their personalities to come through for validation purposes. And you may see things here feel there's a sense of smell. You know, people can smell alcohol or or taste alcohol, but it smells cigarettes or someone's cologne or flowers, things like that. So I think the individuals, depending on their what we call players or their intuition, it can show up differently. But it also is in relationship to the personality that's coming through and what is strongest for them to come through. So I have built, you know, sort of the sign language from the other side, but then it adds to it by seeing certain things that I can then interpret for the individual. But for people, it depends if you're highly creative, you're probably going to get some movies going on. If you're very literally, you're going to get more literal information coming through. So it depends on how you're wired and the person coming through. Yeah, I like to explain it is that if you're familiar with your intuitive abilities, whether they're players or however you want to call those senses, if you tend to communicate that way as a human being. Again, if you're more visual, if you're more auditory, that sort of thing, then that tends to be not all in all cases, but tends to be more of that intuitive mirror sense that you're able to pick up on with the spiritual world and what that looks like. What made me think about this is people get concerned, what if they don't speak the same language, I only speak English and, you know, animals when they come through and I think that's letting people know that you don't have to have a lane. There's no language barriers on the other side from a child in New York to animals to someone that doesn't speak, you know, my language, which is English, so which I barely speak that. But that's exactly correct. It opens up the door for all of that as well. I'm actually going to go there because you said sign language, this is perfect because I, when I actually started finally doing sessions, officially with people a while back, my guides, angels said to me that there was something that is called spiritual language or that is unique to our souls resonance. What the heck are you talking about? What is this mean? And so then they taught me and working through is exactly what you're saying. So when I see, for example, if I'm in session with somebody and I, and they show me in my mind's eye, somebody's hands and they go like this, meaning and for people that can't see, because Deb and I are just, you know, we're on video right now, so we can see one another, but my hands are open. And then they will show me light coming from somebody's hands. And then I am like, okay, then this person's a healer. And there might be some other things that, you know, would equate or they would show me that this person's a healer. But for the most part, then that's my universal sign with my spirit team that they're communicating with me and acknowledging. But also they told me we can assign things to them to say, like, that's why when we say, show me this number, show me this, whatever, or what they'll customize it based to our soul language. I think they do it sometimes going find whatever you need. Yes, they're just like, we're just going to help you out here. I think we make it more complicated, which is really what I think when people get into their head, like you're saying, like, we want certain things to become through. And it really is adapting to how they're communicating. So think of yourself in a country that you don't speak the language, the body language and planting and things like that are going to help you communicate. And that's basically how you may begin the journey of working with your guides, working with your loved ones. And the other example that I was thinking of that just came through because you mentioned animals. To me, they speak in more bullet points, meaning that they'll show, I don't know, their favorite toy or a memory or something that they've had with one of their humans or loved one. And then there's a feeling and there's an emotion, but they don't do this verbose conversation the way we do. So in some cases, it can feel a little awkward when I'm sharing messages with someone about their animals because they're like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like you said, we complicate things sometimes with what we think that what they're trying to get across. I think what you just said to you are lining all of your energy. So it is an emotional connection. So you may see something or something that's familiar as a sign, but it's adding the emotion to it. And I think that's where people sometimes don't realize that that's another way to communicate the information from the other side. Yes. And is that piece? Yeah, because sometimes people ask me about animal spirits or if they see a certain animal that keeps popping up in nature and I say stop. And what is the first thing that comes to your mind? Or ultimately, what are you feeling when you see that animal? Because that is what the communication is. Is how are you feeling and what are you picking up on it? I think what we call is we name our left brain. So mine's Larry. Our Larry comes in and starts to limit or dissect or put down the information we're getting. And that's what happens with our left and right brain. So you get the information, you get the emotional feeling. And then Larry comes in and goes, wait a minute, that's you're making that stuff up and that doesn't really make sense and people, you know, people are going to judge you. So it's learning to turn that left brain off to really trust what's coming through. And that's the big thing about being a psychic and a medium is to really trust the information and not try to control it. And I think that's hard for most people these days for all lifetimes. Because we've been programmed to process things in a certain way. And I do actually kind of want to get to, so something that's been popping up as we've been talking is some practitioners will say that all people are psychics. Some will say not everyone's psychic, but let's just go with all people can be psychic and we all have intuitive abilities. But then there's also the, but not everyone's a medium. So which camp do you fall in on it's not a right or wrong kind of thing. But like what do you do you feel like this because this is becoming a medium. So can anyone become a medium. I think everyone is there's more than one answer with this. I think everyone is one psychic. We all just are wired a little differently. How we use it and utilize it. And then I don't think everyone is a medium. But I do think that people can get information from their loved ones or their guides. Absolutely. I think that a medium is more on point. Like we are, we can go to it easily and give the information more directly where it might be more challenging for somebody that isn't wired to be a medium. So I could probably be trained to sing, but you never pay me to sing, right. So I think we're all born with certain capabilities. You see people that can understand math and science and understand languages and music. We all have a different way that we show up on this planet. But we can all learn those skills. We just may not be the expert in those areas. Great explanation. Thank you. When you were talking what I was hearing from my spirit team was if they don't feel confident and medium ship or their medium ability, you know, like you said, maybe they're lower on that spectrum as far as being able to tap into it. More strongly or intensely is that that's where pendulums or oracle cards or tear cards or other tools that can kind of help be that bridge between the communication can help. Absolutely. I do believe that we can heighten that muscle. So if we think about our intuition and medium ship and Claire's as being a muscle, we can build upon that to make it better. Just like if I practiced doing math more, I would be more skilled at math, right. With practice, we become more efficient at anything that we try. So if you're a chef or a baker or seamstress, whatever, you know, the energy is the more you practice, you get better at it. I think some people are born with certain abilities that are more natural or it comes more natural. Going back to that, I like to teach people to be able to work those muscles to the best efficiency possible for themselves. Because I don't want them to always turn to other people. Trust what you were born with. Use those abilities with what you're born with. So maybe we talk about that a little bit is what are some things that people can do. To start to strengthen those intuitive muscles and or to the medium ship part. Sure. I think part of we talked about was not trying to control an outcome and also trust. I think trust is number one when it comes to what you're getting information and then learning to understand those messages. So the control piece would be to allow yourself to be present, not forcing something to happen. I call it the constipation reading where we, you know, force something to happen. If someone is looking at medium ship, I think part of it is practicing or doing internship working with people that you may know, but you don't know much about their loved ones who have crossed over and start practicing and seeing how you build that language for yourself and be able to have the confidence to be able to do these things. Most of us are so busy we have a to do list as you know to Nicole trying to, you know, organize ourselves to get together. We have a lot going on so people have they struggle to be present and to be confident enough just to take time to meditate and meditation to me doesn't have to be in the quiet room, but just to be aligned and be present with information. I think too is having fun with it. I think people take it really seriously about getting it wrong and to me humor is raising that vibration or raising your energy to connect because there are loved ones they have to bring their energy down and we bring ours up to make that connection. If you have a lot of guilt or fear or things like that, it's harder to make that connection because the other side has to work harder to connect with us. So, you know, I'm known for my dad humor, which means it's not very funny to others, but bringing in the humor allows us to lighten our load, lighten our energy, you know, distract ourselves from what our responsibilities are so we can be more present. The more that we're able to tune into that, that's we can turn the on and off switch. So I can pretty quickly turn on the on switch over the years, but we don't know sometimes how to do that. I feel like, you know, what's the difference between life and then being aligned to work with your guides and being able to channel. I think having fun, not trying to be attached to the outcome, I think it's really hard for people to be attached to what comes through. In readings that I've done thousands and thousands, people will expect a certain thing to show up maybe a nickname or something that was important to them. I don't get the information, I can't deliver it. And so it's being okay that you didn't receive the information from those loved ones because we can't be attached to that. And getting out of your own way, like I feel honored that I can channel, but you are a channel and it's not about you. So don't compare your grief in your situation with other people that competitive side. Yeah, no, that's all really great. And a lot of a lot of information that I was like trying to make sure like as far as like what the next step is and where we wanted to go with this is. A couple of the other things that I was hearing is getting out of your own way, but it that also could be doubt. So if you're doubting as the reader or doubt if you're speaking to someone and trying to get a message, there's that expectation. I'm saying, I'm saying this to where sometimes you'll say, oh, well, if it's my grandmother, then she's going to bring through this. And then if that doesn't come through, then that's not my grandmother or there's not this. So it's kind of like you need to be open to all possibilities as much as possible, remove the walls to receive. Because just like you were saying with those energies and the frequencies of trying to get on that right channel. And I'm going to be able to speak of how that communication is going to go through. There's a lot of things that have to happen in order for that to come through. I really love talking to you really the language. I think we both get hits as we're talking. I think the ethics of it. So not being attached to the outcome. Can I share a story that. Yeah, please. So we talked a little bit about the grieving to believe it was about me doing readings with parents who lost children early on in my career. I didn't have a mentor and I wanted to have the ethics. I wanted to understand how this work. And I didn't want to be the typical medium psychic that has that image out there. So I had done, I was invited to this group of women. There was probably about 25 women. And they were part of a mob group, which is mothers of preschoolers. And so they knew each other stories. And I think at the time I charged maybe 20 bucks ahead. I had no idea if I could even do this in a group setting. I sat down and I'm doing the readings. And I get probably halfway through and I'm talking to this one woman. And everyone knows their story. And it was a little girl that was two years old that had died. Her dad was outside working in the garage and working on the garage door. And the garage door came down and hit this little girl and killed her. And so everyone knew and the girl girl came through very clearly. And there was a lot of healing done. And I was like, okay, you know, that's that's it and moved on. Well, for a couple of weeks, she kept visiting me going, you need to call my dad. And no, no, it's not his fault. I need you to call my dad. And this is when I really understood how the other side was working. And I'm like, okay, girl, I am not calling your father. And you're going to have to find another way to have your father reach out to me, because I'm not going to be an ambulance chaser. Because a lot of people with these abilities want to show up at events and say, well, your your mother's here, your son's here and they just kind of want to blast somebody with information. And then see who raises their hand. It irritates me because we're not in a place to be able to hear messages from the other side. So about three months later, this woman comes to my house and I'm doing the reading. And I think it was her father that had passed and her name was Bridget. And I'm doing the reading as we're going through it near the last 15 minutes of the session. I go, this is really all I think she goes, what I said, I don't know why this little girl is here. She goes, well, tell me the story. I said, well, I did this reading. I told her the story and I said, I told this little girl. She has to find another way for her dad to come see me. And I told her how this little girl died. And she goes, well, they're my neighbor. They live right down the street. And these people lived way on the other side of town. And I'm in Colorado. She goes, I've been meaning to go there and give them my condolences. So she found this little vase and got some babies breath. And I think like a yellow rose and took it to the family. When she knocked on the door, she says, I went to see Deb Shepherd and your daughter came through. And I wanted to come and give my condolences and give you this flower arrangement. The flowers she chose were exactly the flowers they had at the service for this little girl. Oh, wow. She says that told her the back story that this little girl had come to visit me several times. So the dad made an appointment and she came through and he got some closure and she went on. So I know there's healing and there's a little bit of magic that goes on. But I think for anyone that's wanting to be a medium is figure out your ethics. Understand that the other side has a lot of power and they're going to figure out how to be. Get a message to their loved one and to get out of your own way and just be that vessel. So when I was thinking about today's interview in this podcast, I was thinking that story came in and I went. That's a perfect story to share. No, it's it's giving me chills. It's beautiful on so many levels. So thank you for sharing. But also I receive questions from people all the time that will say, well, if I'm starting my intuitive abilities and then I receive a message, whether it's through their intuition, but specifically on the mediumship side, they'll say, well, am I supposed to say something to someone because of that ethics, you know, they don't want to just approach someone cold and do that whole thing. And so, and I'd love to hear your opinion, but for me, the way I kind of ask every day when I wake up is, you know, guides and angels lead me and divine love and light as far as where I'm going throughout the day. That there's messages from my best and highest good or for others, best and highest good. And so I use that essentially as a, I don't say do not disturb sign, but a filter. So that if I then am receiving a message, I know it's in accordance with their higher self, my higher self, our guides and angels have kind of not been the bodyguards, but allowed that message to come through. And therefore, then it's probably in divine cordons to share that. But I was actually at this, I was getting my nails done a couple weeks ago, and I felt kind of like Theresa Caputo in this moment where there's this woman across for me, and I just kept hearing you have to go and tell her that she has beautiful energy that her energy is just, I was like, I am not doing that. I'm not doing that. And then I said, okay, fine. And so I sat with it. I ended up not going over only because I think she left, but it's those moments where I did tap into my intuition. And I said, is it okay? And what is that that was my own ethics, which you were talking about as well. And even though the message was really strong, I trusted the message that I was getting. And I sent that love and light to her and said, okay, well, hopefully it'll come through in a different way for her. But I just didn't feel comfortable about interrupting her day and all the things. So. And I think there's a maturity of knowing when it is okay to reach out in other times. And I think there's a lot of power on the universe that that person is going to get a message. I hear often, I'm like, well, how did you hear about me? And although someone, you know, I was thinking about getting a meeting. I didn't know who to go to and someone started telling me about you. Or, you know, I heard you on the radio or I googled and you're the, you're the one that popped up and just different things. The universe has a lot of power. So it's us trusting that goes back to us not being in control and trusting an outcome. I think I wrote my book about I stopped getting invited to parties because I would be invited to a bunkal party and have a glass of wine and start, you know, or your parents here. And learning that that was not the time and place. So it's it's finding the time and place. But I think it's letting anyone that wants to do this work. You don't always have to be the one to be the messenger. The other side is going to find someone for that person, but it also helps you to figure out what is your ethics? What do you want to do? What would you do in that situation? When I've been pushed at a nail salon, I will say something to kind of open that door and see if they're open to it and then say, well, I'm getting this feeling. Can I share with you? So it's it's giving that person that comfort versus you blasting them. Yeah, this is not a TV thing and no judgment on any of that. It's just more of yes, when you get a message that's so overwhelming and you feel led to share it, there's some steps you can take. Like you're saying to whether or not you move forward. And with racing the Puno, she gets people's approval. So that's it's a TV show. It's Hollywood. That's really great. She opens the door for other people, but for the rest of us that are doing this just be cautious. Yeah, and the reason I'm sharing that is because I don't think a lot of people necessarily understand that that's happening behind the scenes beforehand. And so yeah, so it's like you just don't you know approach. But anyway, going back to I want to talk a little bit about that do not disturb sign because you mentioned like it's a light switch for you. And it did take me sometimes understand how to do that. And again, I know every single person is different, but what are some ways that you either yourself do to put up that block or that filter. And or what are some things other people can do that you would recommend for them to take those steps, especially kids. Because I'm feeling I'm feeling led to say of adults and kids. And you mean like how do kids turn it off? I don't think kids are designed to turn it off. Yeah. Well, I don't know that I just heard my guides and angels say it's a cat. It's to make sure that we talk about kids to maybe we first talk about the adult part and then see what kids can do what tools they can have with that. Oh, I'd love that. Yeah, absolutely. So for adults, I think if you don't have good boundaries in your life, I've worked with people that just say, well, it just shows up all the time. I said, well, you know, in your personal life, do you have clear boundaries? And they'll sort of push back. And I'm like, if people are crossing your boundaries or you're crossing other people's boundaries and you don't understand them, they're going to it's going to happen with the other side. The other side is very respectful of your boundaries. So when we, when I first started really understanding that these abilities were here, I think I got bombarded for me to understand to trust it. Like you can do this. Now see what you can do with it. So I think in the beginning, it's like the kid in the candy start never had candy. So I'm going to eat it all. We kind of get it a little bit on a high. So I think in the beginning, if you're opening that door, just understand it's you're being downloaded a lot of information so that you can build the confidence and you can build your ethics or whatever else you want to do with it. But if you do not have clear boundaries in your life and people cross them and you cross theirs, you're going to have it with this work as well. It's in unison. So if you're the one that always we, one of the things I teach in my mentoring program is stay in your own lane. So we have all these healers that come into this program. They're up to give an advice. Let me tell you, and they're not allowed to. So we say stay in your own lane. And that's what happens if you're the one that's first to have someone shares a problem or shares a situation. If your first response is to give them an answer, you probably have boundary issues. And it's trying to listen. And what Dana has said is, do you listen to respond or listen to understand. I think most people listen to respond. So if this is who you are, you want to listen to respond, which is so funny, because I interrupted you a couple times and I'm laughing at myself, but you know, we get so excited about sharing. So I think with any adult, can you listen without just first responding. And that's what's going to help you with your boundaries with this work and be really cautious about the person that you're sharing it with. The reason I was smiling is because I was getting so much information. I was just like, oh, and I was trying not to interrupt you. Because it's almost like we asked the question. And I think this is probably with your spirit team of my spirit team is that they're like so eager to also help us. So yeah, so anyway, so that's that's a little bit of a behind the scenes thing. But I what I like to share with people is it's kind of like think about when you have a message that's incoming or an intuitive hit. Sometimes you're CCed on the email. That doesn't mean you're in the two sub you're not in the two. You have to reply or even reply all you're in a CC. It's an FYI. It's almost like spirit showing you, hey, FYI, there's this information. It's not that you're the messenger necessarily. And I think that that's hard for people in the beginning when they're trying to figure out what their role is. And they're understanding their intuitive abilities with the medium shift means how do I actually like interact with all of this incoming stuff necessarily. Can I can I still that and I'll give you credit the CC is really good. I think it is about having data information. It to me it's no different than thinking if you drive at this hour is going to be a lot of traffic. There's some accidents or the weather's going to be bad. So it's preparing you or some clarity. So it's the same kind of idea and you're right you and I are like going I'm getting this I'm getting this and so there's excitement with it. Especially when we're new at doing this we just see it so excited for the validation and that we can be a messenger and help someone heal. And that's what we have to determine that it's we never heal anybody is my motto. We help people and support them for their own healing. So we sustain an attach to their process. There's a myth and misconception. I feel about there are some practitioners out there that say you don't need boundaries. Because if you have boundaries, whether it's protection, whether it's other things. You're actually not in the light. Essentially, so let me walk you through and I want to hear your opinions on the look on your face. Yeah, because I think we're on the same page with this one. But it's like if you're in the light and you're shining that light and you're at a certain resonance and vibration, then you don't need energetic boundaries or boundaries as a whole. Because everything else is going to filter in a sense be all copacetic. I get that. But I think 90% of us are not in number two. If we don't have boundaries in our personal life like you were saying, how do we then interpret that on the spiritual side. So an example would be for people if you're like, I don't understand. Let me let me bring this to full circle. Is if you all of a sudden are open to your spiritual and mediumship abilities and you start to feel or hear or sense information as you're falling asleep and you can't get any sleep because all these spirits are bothering you. You can hang up a do not disturb sign and say, listen, this is my sleep time. Leave me alone. Come back later when I'm ready. That's just one small example, but that's that's the energetic boundary. And like you said, the other side is very respectful. So you have to understand what are you comfortable with versus what you aren't. So I have trouble with a practitioner that says you don't need boundaries because I don't see a world right now. At least that I live in that those don't exist. I think we're very much in agreement with these things. I think the one thing you did share and I'll add to that is I don't do the protection thing. I don't feel like we have to protect ourselves to do this work. And I always feel that is something negative shows up in my life. That means I am not I'm here to learn something. And this is giving me the chance to say this person is my teacher, the situations my teacher, and what do I need to learn from that? So is it a value? Is it boundaries? Is it my ethics? Whatever that situation is. So when people go, yeah, put the white light on with the negative to come in. We're in a world that things are going to happen. And so to me, the intention, you're manifesting that there are negative things that you need to protect yourself from. So it's counterproductive in my opinion a little bit, but the ethics of boundaries absolutely. And I think it's respect not only for the other side, but it's respect for the people that we live on this planet with years ago. I had a great boundary lesson with my guides and it was funny. And I learned a lot from it. So I think there is a boundary on the other side about how we do this work. So people would be pregnant and I could never get the sex of their baby. I was always wrong. No matter what. I tried it. I'm like, okay, get it a girl. I'm going to say this time, it's a boy. And you have a 50-50 shot, Deb. Yeah, 50-50 shot. And I was consistently wrong. And it became a joke so I would like someone's pregnant, like can I practice on you? And so finally I asked my guys, I said, how come I'm always wrong? And they said because we don't give you that information in order for you to be humbled that the only information you receive is from us. And then you can't conjure up the information for your ego, money, whatever. And I thought it was a fabulous way for me to understand when someone's trying to get information and I don't get it, it doesn't mean that I'm not qualified to do the work. What it meant is I'm not here at Liberty because I'm not receiving it because it's a three-way party. They may want to hear something, but it's like with our children, we tell them certain things at certain ages. We don't talk about how babies are born at the age of four or five until they get a little older, right? There are things that go on. So to me, when I respect and put boundaries, the other side is also doing that with me. Yes, I love that. So it's humbling because I feel like doing this work is you're a person of service. Yeah, and you have to be very careful about the information you share with people because there are some people that come back to me. And I thought maybe some messages were, I don't say simple, but whatever they were, I just, it wasn't anything where it was about a trauma or it was anything. It was just about their light or what have you. And so then they came back and they said, that really sat with me. I like, I can't stop thinking about it. So when we are channeling and providing information, i.e. through their highest and best good and what that's coming through, which is my filter. I also too sometimes get ego when I'm blocked and I can't share a message. And so what I've done where I've asked my guides and angels is, can you share a little bit with me so that they're not frustrated and they're reading about why I'm removing my ego, but can you share? A lot of times they say, because they're either not ready or it's not your place Nicole to share or they need to come to that realization themselves. And as much as it can be frustrating for the person that's receiving the reading, just know that it should be all in divine timing, all in divine order. This is not a fortune cookie. Also, we're not oracles. We don't know. I'll see all whatever this is we're trying to help you connect with source, help you connect with your own higher self to receive. And I think anyone that is seeking out the services of someone like yourself for me, they want, I think it's important that they seek someone that does have the boundaries and respects the work. And if someone just feels like, oh, yeah, you don't need a filter, you know, you're like, I agree with you. If you're in the like, well, I'm still walking this planet learning lessons. So I'm not there yet. I'm not done. And I think it's understanding that we are given the boundaries from the other side of information and we have to mirror them. Yes. Now, before we're done with our time, so I want to be respectful of your time. I want to go to something where I call it heart hugs. Have you heard of this or you probably have experienced it, but you don't use this kind of terminology. I'm seeking to learn something. You know, go for it. Okay. So a couple nights ago, when I was sleeping, you're going to be the first person to hear this as well as the listeners. What I do is I don't classify myself as a medium, even though I know medium is communication with other beings. I very much communicate with my spirit team, other people's spirit teams. But I ask Michael in particular to kind of block other people from the other side, because I think we joked about this a while back. I communicate with people day long and communication job. And then also through the sessions. I'm like, I don't need a line of dead people like also trying to communicate with me. So anyway, that's my do not disturb kind of sign. But anyway, I was lying in bed and I was trying to go to sleep. And I felt what is so when my angels surround me and they give me a hug, I feel energetically around me almost kind of like wings unfolding me. And it doesn't happen all the time. But when it doesn't like, okay, I'm in this loving presence of them being around. But when it's someone of a loved one of mine that is passed over like my grandmother or one of my dogs who I love so much and he so dear my heart. When I actually felt his soul leave his body, I felt this what I call heart hug like where my heart was just enveloped with this unconditional love. And so I kept happening until I was like, well, this is great. Why am I having this experience? And I heard and like, hi, I love you. Yes, you're around. And then I heard because people out there need to hear that when we're here on this side on earth, we're going to miss people who have passed when we're on the other side. We're not going to miss people who have passed or not pass the like that are here on earth. So there's this dichotomy in some ways where unfortunately there's always going to be this this miss that we're having or this longing. But the power of the here now is to remember that we're with other people and that to embrace and have that love and that light when we're here. So I thought that was really compelling, but the idea that heart hug just kind of really stuck with me. And I wanted to know if you've experienced that if other people have or if that's like a natural, I was a natural, but like a normal way that they communicate with us. I love the word normal because people go, isn't this really weird? I'm like, well, that's kind of my normal. I think there's a lot of people that will have shared like I could feel them or I could feel them sitting at the end of the bed or I could feel them touch me to me energetically, it takes them a lot of work to be able to bring that essence that to us. So it's very powerful. So you may not hear words or things like that. And it's very quick. You know, 10, 20 seconds where you're feeling that embracement and yes, I do believe and it does happen and I can feel. When I've done readings, I'm like, wow, are they just to think of great bear hugs and they go, yeah, and I can feel it. And that's where we use the one of our clairs is the emotional piece, the feeling to be able to connect with that. And that is being open and you are obviously very open to your heart being open to be able to feel those things. And I think the other thing that they come through a lot when there's a celebration going on or something that is painful that's happening. So it's like getting the phone call from a friend or a family, everyone, hey, I heard that, you know, you graduated or I heard this is this announcement or I heard this bad news. So I'm here so that you will see those energies or fill those energies during those times. I hope it wasn't for anything bad and it was for celebration. I also, when I was lying there, I was, it was almost like a party because, you know, where I was feeling it not just from one loved one, but from another and it's like one after the next. So I thought that that was really cool. And when I asked, okay, well, what is the purpose? Because I'm kind of walking people through in cases ever happens. I said, okay, thank you. What is the reason? And they said to share with others that this is a way that we can communicate is through a heart hug, which is so I just thought that was beautiful and wanted to share that with you. I love that I got to be the first one going there. And I think it's just giving people permission to have these experiences and then share them. I mean, people like myself were in the closet, you know, we had to come out of the closet to be able to talk about this work and it's not, it's not that way anymore. So people are more open to having in these experiences. And I'm sorry for your losses too. Oh, no, thank you. No, I don't know. I guess I never really considered them as losses because I could still feel them and know them. And about the weird, the normal, the strange, when someone would die in my family as a kid, I'd be like, okay, they're by like, hi, and my, my parents be like, what? What's going on? So anyway, yeah, it was one of those things. But yes, it does, it still doesn't make it any easier when you go through that. But yeah. Okay, so I know we're kind of at time, but I did want to ask you kind of before we get into your books and your courses and stuff like that, and we wrap it up. Can you share a little bit about is somebody wants to connect with a specific loved one? So they've lost someone in particular. And is there something that they can do to, I guess, be prepared and or channel and start to tap in outside of the grief? Cause I know if we're feeling grief and sadness that sometimes can be a block, but anything else that you would maybe recommend or tips to provide for them. Yeah, I think there's a lot of things people can do. One of them is just start talking to them. I mean, I think people ask me all the time, do they hear me? And I'm like, yeah, you said this, this and this and they go, yeah. So I think we don't realize that there is still, they can still hear us by our actions. If you have something you can do in order to make the connection. So if you like to walk and outdoors and you sit on a bench, think about them for a few moments or do things to honor them to bring them through. You've got to make writing, just writing down what you feel about them, having photographs and just having that, like you said, the heart connection, eventually you'll feel their presence. I think people look really hard for those particular signs. And I think that what you said about the heart hug, feel them. And so you may be doing the dishes and all this and think about them. That's usually a hello from them. And they're not here to give you a bunch of advice. They're just here to say, I'm here. I'm okay. And I think we expect more and it's making that opportunity. And yes, grief is a big piece of it. The other thing I ask people to ask people to do is try to connect with someone they're not as close to because when you try to do that, usually it's easier than someone that you really feel like you need to have a connection with, which is why we started doing the grieving to believe in because you want to hear from your child. Let's hear from some other people that healing and validation helps you then connect with that child love that love that. All right. So share a little bit with listeners about your courses, books, anything that you have going on right now that you want to let people know and make them aware of. Yeah. Well, my book is called grieving to believe in and it's my journey becoming a medium and also mental health and what people go through with a loss of a loved one and what things people say and things that you can do to help with your own healing. So it's my journey. And then my program, the mentoring program is called solutions. And there are, there's a six month, then there's a year and then there's the legacy, which continues. So I've had people working with me for, you know, two to four years. And I'm passionate. Well, I think we all find passion in our work. And it's one of my, it is my heart had where watching people evolve, inhale from their traumas and their past and be able to use your intuition at the best ability possible is truly that passion. But of course, we always have something else going on. We have some other things that are coming out that will be online that we still look forward to. Yes. And you have a free course on psychic dreaming too. Yeah. And I think part of that is we, when you feel like you're not getting information during the day because our lives are busy. And our inner minds continue going on is that in the dream state, how to get that information and be able to decipher it because people go, I had this dream and my love one was, they're in pain. I go, well, that's your grief. So it's understanding and getting clarity when it comes to your dreams, whether it's your guides, your angels, your loved ones or things that are going on. Amazing. Well, Deb, I always love having you on your welcome back any time. And before we end officially, is there anything we didn't talk about that you wanted to cover and or share. That's the biggest thing would be to be patient as you develop your your psychic abilities, your intuition. And when you've had a loved one pass and you want to really connect with them, do the healing work. That's what comes first. That is the the foremost one important thing to do so that you can heal. I want people to be able to hear from their own loved ones coming through because I think that helps us have a better life and our loved ones on the other side do not want us to be. And grief and in pain, they want us to have an exciting life. And the more that we do that, the easier we can have with that connection. And I'm always honored to be here. So thank you. You're very welcome. So for anyone looking to connect with Deb, I follow her on Instagram. So if you go over to a psychic story, you can follow her easily there, but her website is Deb Shepard. That's S H E P P A R D dot com. I'll be sure to also include any links to her book, but also the show grieving to believing. And again, thank you so much, Deb. Thank you for listening to a psychic story. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode and join the conversation on Instagram, Facebook or Twitter. All episodes are free on your favorite podcast player or at a psychic story dot com. Have a question. Is there a topic you'd like to hear more about or have a suggestion for a future guest? Send an email to contact at a psychic story dot com or leave a voicemail message at 1-800-880-1881. We'd love to hear from you and you may even be featured on a future episode. If you're interested in booking a session with me, you can do that directly on the website. 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