Determination, Achieving the Impossible and Pursuing Your Passion with Tony Hawk

Hello and welcome to another episode of All the Hacks, a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel. I'm your host Chris Hutchins, and if you've been watching this podcast recently on YouTube, you'll have noticed two things. First, I have a new studio setup. I signed up for Kevin Chen's Dream Studio course, which I'll link to in the show notes because it's fantastic and got so many great tips that ultimately led to what you see today. It's not quite done, but it's almost there, and I even have a setup for in-person interviews, which you'll see the first version of in a few weeks. But more importantly is number two. You'll see that I have a few skateboards hanging on the wall behind me. That's not just because they look cool. I have loved skateboarding since I was a kid, and I still skate a bit today. Well, what you probably can't see is that one of those skateboards is signed by none other than Tony Hawk, who I've looked up to for so many years, which is why it is surreal that I'm sitting down with Tony for today's episode. He is one of the most decorated athletes in the world, having turned pro at 14, and by 16, he was considered the best competitive skateboarder on Earth. He was world champion for 12 years in a row, launched a video game franchise with 30 million games sold. He also runs a skate brand, an awesome nonprofit, a clothing brand, and has made hundreds of appearances in movies, magazines, and TV shows. We're going to talk about his career, how he's pushed himself to achieve things that so many people thought were impossible, what lessons we can take away from all of that time skateboarding. What he's learned being apparent to four kids and some of his favorite travel hacks. We also shot this in person at Tony's studio with an awesome three camera setup. So if you want to check out the video from this episode, I'll put a link to the YouTube channel and the show notes. All right, let's jump in right after this. Tony, welcome to the show. Thank you. Yeah, so before we jump in, what is one thing you think most people just don't get about skateboarding or skateboard culture? The amount of discipline it takes. I think that there's still a stigma that skaters, especially people who make their living from skateboarding or from writing the skateboards are slackers or stoners. They just get up late. They do what they want. They go trespassing. They go skate and to get to a certain level of skating to get to some of the more difficult maneuvers, it takes years of discipline and perseverance, pain. And I think that's lost in the noise of these guys or their rebels. They got crazy. Here it is. They go against the grain. It's like those things are also true in a lot of ways, but they do that out of it's more out of function of where they came from because in especially in the early 90s, mid-90s, there were no places to skate and you had to break into places, you know, and you had to hop fences and go to school yards or go to plazas to find any type of terrain. And then skaters got labeled as outcasts and outlaws through that. Yeah. I remember flipping over like shades lounges at the pool and trying to grind the like rails on. There was nothing to do back then. I know you have a lot of discipline, right? You talk about how important it was. Going back to the early days, was there anything about your upbringing that kind of drove that competition and determination? I was just always very determined. That was my mom's best explanation for it because people would say I was a terror and I was a nightmare and I was relentless and she's like, he's just very determined. That was her nice way of summarizing my behavior. But I think that I wanted to figure things out and I was going to do it at all costs. Like I wanted to, I mean, I played baseball and basketball, but I didn't thrive and only because of my size, you know, I was committed to it and I was doing the work and I was trying to get in the mix, but I just, I didn't have the strength or the height to really make a difference because I was really small from age. And then when I found skating, I still had the same disadvantage, but there was something about it that was much more creative that I enjoyed. It wasn't a team sport. I didn't have to listen to a coach or rely on the team and there was something about that that spoke to me, but also just the whole culture and how people's attitudes was very do it yourself and they were proactive and I loved it. I know you said it's not a team sport, but there were a lot of other people involved. There were a lot of other skaters growing up. It wasn't that it was so individualistic that it was like, I'm just on my own mission. I love the community of it. I love that you could go to the skate park and be trying to learn something and suddenly people rally around you because they just want to see you succeed and then you have the support and like in that sense, you have a team, but you're not, you're not relying on each other for the, I don't know, coordination or anything like that. It was very much like, you could do it. You got it. All right. And then someone else is trying something else and then you get behind that. And I think that spoke to me a lot too because I was, I was really small from my age. I didn't feel like I fit in anywhere. I was bullied a lot mostly because of my size, but also just because I was not the cool kid. And then when I found skateboarding, there were much people like me all trying to find their way and they all connected through skateboarding. I look back to my childhood and I remember like those days I was not the cool kid. I was like the computer nerd and skateboard nerd. And you know, you found our tribe, if you will. Yeah. I didn't have, I think the determination you did. I remember all I wanted was to skate at like an amazing level and it just never clicked for me. I found determination other places later in life, but it was so hard. You, I've seen, you know, documented fortunately a lot of your experiences in life are documented against all odds, against all pain. I remember watching the X games in, in 99 where you're trying to do your 912 times in a row and falling even this year trying to kick flip for five, 10 minutes after surgery. Like what do you think allows you to go and just keep going? Because I remember sitting in the garage trying to kick flip for hours and then I just gave up at some point and I just couldn't keep going. I think firstly that I have convinced myself that whatever it is I'm trying is possible. And so I just have to figure out the right approach to make it so and that, that comes in a lot of forms. But I do feel like, especially if I go to try a new trick, it's like I have every element of this trick. I know how to spin. I know how to flip my board. I have landed in similar fashions. So it's like, how do I combine all those elements to make this one thing work? And I think I rely on that so much that I'm willing to push through pain and exhaustion to get there. It doesn't always work. Like when you talk about saw the 900 was 12 tries, those 12 tries are representative of thousands of tries. I tried that trick for 10 years. So 12 tries was nothing. You know what I mean? They're just the 12 I got to witness. No, but I'm saying it. But I understand that if people saw that from the outside, they're like, oh, he won't give up. And I was like, yeah, you have no idea how deep that not give up goes, especially for that particular move. I would try dozens of tries in one session only to walk away the broken rib. So heal up and come back and do it again, heal up and come back and try again. Actually after the broken rib, that put me on pause. That one I had actually stepped away from that trick after getting hurt like that. And at some point thought, I've given it everything I have. I've fully committed to it. And that's what happens. So maybe it's not in the cards at the time to do think I'm quitting on this endeavor or I did. After I broke my rib, I was like, I had every element. I had every piece of it. I had the landing. I had everything. And so if it didn't work, it's never going to work. But in that one instance at the X Games, the reason I even tried it was because there was a best trick event. I had a trick in mind for what I wanted to do that I had made once before. And so I thought, I'm just going to try it. That's my best trick. I'm going to try to get to that trick. And I got to it very early. So I didn't really have anything else planned. And so the announcer actually at the time, the announcer that was on site said, Oh, let's see one of those 900 attempts. That's what started it. Was that part of your being was being encouraged by others or was it internal motivation? No, I mean, I probably would have tried it anyway. Because it's like, yeah, that would be my next trick that I'd like to accomplish would be the next best trick for sure. And so I tried it more to appease the crowd. Like this is what it looks like. And then somewhere around the third or fourth try, my speed was consistent. My spin was consistent. I started spotting the landing. And in previous attempts, I only ever spotted the landing, maybe one out of five tries because the ramps were all pretty terrible back then. You can rely on the speed or the walls weren't the same. So you're always kind of struggling to adjust. And that ramp was built really well. So I didn't have to struggle with the construction. It was more like I could rely on the speed and the trueness of it. So after about my fourth, third or fourth try, I can see it. I see it every time. I might as well try to make it again. And when I did try to make it the first time when I tried to put it on the wall, I fell forward, but I didn't fall forward so hard that I got hurt again. And that was the key because it was like, oh, I can adjust the landing and I can try to get more in my back foot. And then I basically shifted my weight mid spin so that when I landed, I was more on the back foot and I was too far on the back foot. And then I shot backwards. Now you said we caught shooting out. So the first one I was too top heavy. I fell forward. The second one, the ones I tried to make. And then the next one I shot out and it was like, that was the magic moment because it was like, well, split the difference. And that's it. And then that's when it worked. Let's say someone listening is hearing this story. Like, this guy's not afraid of anything. Are there other sports, other things in life that you have fear from? Oh, for sure. I surf and I don't like big surf. People say, well, you ride these giant ramps. Yeah, but if I fall, the giant ramp doesn't crash on top of me and hold me underwater. You know what I mean? My brother is a surfer. And that's how I got into skateboarding, my older brother. But when I would go surf with him and he has plenty of experience, he'd go out to pretty heavy stuff. And it's just like, I like riding a big way, but I don't want to suffer the consequences of falling on one. My first experience surfing was a friend of mine took me and he was like, let's just try these on a short board. I had no idea what I was doing. Yeah, it was the first experience of a short board. Yeah. And then the next one was like Hawaii long board super chill. I was like, oh, I could get back into this. Oh, yeah. Well, I'll say I have surf through my years because my brother wouldn't allow me to exist without at least a foot or a toe in the water, so to speak. But I have fallen in love with the wave machines, the wave pools because they are consistent and they're not too scary and they are like skate parks. Because when you go surfing out in the wild, you never really know what you're going to get. You get waves and sometimes they're good, sometimes they're not good. You've got to figure out kind of how to navigate the nature and where the swells going to hit. Those things are the waves are always good. They're always going to barrel. And so in that sense, you have what I consider a skate park to try to learn tricks and try to learn techniques. So yeah, I get it. It's not the purest thing. It's not you're not out in nature. But for me, it's just a controlled environment and it very much feels like skateboarding. I've been waiting for a time where I'm near one of these wave parks because I don't think there's one near San Francisco, at least close enough. A little more Fresno. Okay. I'm going to not go out for a few hours and then come back. Yeah. So you've got this crazy determination with skateboarding. Did you ever figure out or do you know the secret to applying that to something else? I think for my personal life, there are things where I'm like, I'm wildly obsessed with optimizing travel. But that doesn't mean that I can take that same thing and apply it necessarily to go learn a kickflip though. You've somewhat inspired me to do that as soon as I get home today. I think I learned the value of patience and perseverance and that I've transcended to being a parent, to being business owner, to travel. Pretty much everything. I learned all that through skating. And is there a way that you applied that? It's not always natural for someone who's, I could do this as hard. I could try everything and then they get to work and they're like, Oh, it's hard. Like how do you rewire your brain to say, Oh, well, I know how to do this with skateboarding. Yeah, I'm also trying to reach back to remember, well, how was I able to figure this out? I think that with parenting, especially it's so easy to get frustrated and give up. It really is. I get it. It's hard, man. These are relentless and they're difficult and you want to just yell and can't. That's not effective. And so you've got to figure out how to sort of change your approach and to see what is effective and that is really hard. But I learned that through skating and I've had plenty of kids. So I have had time to figure it out even more so and I learned the value of persistence and determination and you do see the results eventually, but it's not some wow moment always. Take your small wins along the way. I'm early on the parenting journey with one at two and six months, but I've seen some small wins and it's like, whoa. Yeah. And those exponentially get better and you can see that, Oh, well, I planted the seed. I'll tell you what I did with them, all my kids early on. And it was hard because I was very much in the early days, kind of a single parent. I just traveled with them and it wasn't a question of like, Oh, I got to go. I'm going to have to find care of this. We're going in the beginning. That was super hard, especially when they're toddlers and they don't have patience. We didn't have iPhones or anything like that. I remember it. I took my son, my oldest son. I took him to Japan when he was four because I had the opportunity to do some skate demos. No one was paying me to skate demos at the time. I was struggling to pay bills and it was like this brand, you know, Saka said, Oh, we want you to come to our skate shop and do two skate exhibitions a day in the skate shop. So they built these little ramps in their skate shop, like moved all their inventory and I brought him along and yeah, it was challenging, but it made him appreciate different cultures and travel and things like that later on. He's 30 now. He's adventurous. He understands and he embraces other cultures and other ways of life. You know what I mean? It's not like everything's so it's weird. It's crazy. This food or the way they do things, he's down for it. I think in the moment we just took a trip with two kids at two and six months. And it's brutal, but you think why are we doing this? And you got to constantly remind yourself, well, there's a reason we're doing this. We're doing this. I think in those years, it's super hard because it's like they're not going to remember any of this, but it does set a precedent and it sets a way of functioning with your family that they get used to. And you'll see other kids try to do that. Like eventually they're going to want to bring friends along. The friends are like, what? I don't want I can't. Where do we go? What do we do? And your kids will be dialed in. Even adapting ourselves, getting comfortable with, okay, well, traveling in London with two kids is very different from two single adults. It's like we're trying to get comfortable with that, which was hard. And I think it worked really well. I know you've said skateboarding is a title, but your favorite title is dad. Is there anything else you were trying to teach your kids? Give them that determination. Do they have it? Do they see it from you? I think they see it from me by example, but I do feel like there is also a nature over a nurture where I see them and they're all different. And a couple of them have that relentless determination and they're going to see it through against all odds against all injury. One of them was actually kind of so, so determined and so fearless that I worried for him when he was young. I used to say it was my son Keegan, but I used to say like, you don't babysit Keegan, you go on death watch. And just trying to keep him from hurting himself because he doesn't understand the consequences of all the stuff he's trying to do. They're all very different, but I do see that they do have that same sense of commitment. And was that a conscious thing or do you think it was just by watching you have it yourself? I think each of them are different, but they all do see their challenges through. Some are just a little more daring with their challenges. And I can't say they got that from me. I mean, maybe they saw that I would pose a challenge and then I would see it through for sure. But like I said, there was one like some of my kids were really, really good skaters, really solid had the foundational skills, but didn't really want to push their limits too hard or put themselves in danger. And then other ones, one especially was not great at skating early on didn't want to put in the hard work to get the foundational skills, but would try anything and get hurt. Didn't care. And were you there pushing or supporting or what was your kind of role to help them grow and evolve? It's hard with my position because of course I'm qualified to give them advice, but because I'm dad, they don't want to hear it. And I actually have seen it happen time and time again, where I'll tell them to try something or to do it a different way. They don't take my advice because they're determined to do it their way. One of their friends is like, I should put your foot over here more and they do it and it works. Like, that's what I told you. I feel like the same lesson applies with spouses as well. Maybe a little bit, but they do. And honestly, it's fun too because they all skate and so when we go travel, I mean, they're all adults now. My all of our boys, two are still in college, three are on their own. And then my daughter is the only one still at home. She's 14. So whenever we travel, they're very self-sufficient. But what they want to do when we go places is to go to the skate parks. And at some point, he was like, you guys, can I get a break from skating? Maybe. So I end up going with them as their filmer. Okay. That's my role when we travel together. Videographer. I am, yes. I did a lot of research to pick a VPN. So I'm excited to tell you why I'm using Nord VPN, who I'm also excited to partner with for this episode. First off, the main reason I use a VPN is that I like the privacy and anonymity of hiding my IP address and not having all my internet activity being tracked and probably shared. I also love being able to connect from an international server to search for cheaper flights or stream from a different catalog. But there are lots of services. So how did I pick Nord VPN? Well, first, I went to the Reddit r slash VPN comparison table where they scored more than 50 different VPNs across 18 criteria from jurisdiction to encryption to transparency. And Nord VPN had the highest marks. I also love that they have a strict no logs policy, meaning they don't track, collect, or share your private data. And to back up that claim, they had to loite to an independent audit last December. Beyond all that, they also offer some great features like threat protection that blocks ads, trackers and malware. And I also just really like their UI. So definitely check out Nord VPN. And because it's their 11th birthday, you can get a huge discount on a two year plan and up to an additional year free. Just go to Nord VPN.com slash all the hacks, and you'll also get their 30 day money back guarantee. Again, that's n o r d VPN.com slash all the hacks to get protected today. There are only a few brands I use almost every single day. And Viori is one of them. And I am so excited to be partnering with them for this episode. Viori makes performance apparel that's incredibly versatile. Everything is designed to work out in, but it doesn't look or feel like it at all. And it is so freaking comfortable. You will want to wear it all the time. Seriously, I'm pretty sure it's more comfortable than whatever you're wearing right now, unless it's Viori, in which case you know what I mean. And it's not just for men. My wife, Amy, is as obsessed with Viori as I am. My personal favorite is the Sunday performance joggers. I think I have three pairs of them and they're probably the most comfortable pants I've ever owned. Their products are incredibly versatile and can be used for just about any activity, whether it's running, training, yoga, but they're also great for lounging, or I even wear their metapants out to a nice dinner. Honestly, I think Viori is an investment in your happiness. And for all the hacks listeners, they're offering 20% off your first purchase, as well as free shipping and returns on any US order over $75. So definitely check them out at allthehacks.com slash Viori. Again, that's all the hacks.com slash V-U-O-R-I. And get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet. So we actually talk a lot about travel on the show. I imagine you've been to countless countries. I don't know if you even keep track. Is there a favorite? Are there places that you love going and going back to? Aside from just the skating there, might inspire people listening. Iceland is amazing because the landscape is so diverse. I can't explain it, but you go there. As soon as you leave the airport, it looks like you're on the moon. And there's just all this moss covering these rocks and there's the blue lagoon. And then as you drive south, it completely changes into almost like a farm setting. And then it changes again, like another half hour into the drive. And yeah, it can't get really cold there, but it's an amazing place. So my wife and I went there a long time ago, almost 15 years ago now. And it felt very untapped. Definitely wasn't a tourist destination. And now it feels much more like there is tourism, but if you just drive out of the city, you can see some amazing sights. My general rule is if you go not when everyone else goes and leave a little bit outside, you can have a very different experience. Yeah, we're not afraid to go way off the beaten path, which we do a lot. Other than that, Japan is just so surreal. It feels like a video game. We just did an episode on Japan and we were like three hours in and we covered Tokyo and Kyoto. We wouldn't even get close to comprehending the entire country. And the guy I was talking to has been there 20 times or something. And he's just still like everywhere I go, I see something new. So every time we brought our kids when they were all, I brought all of them just before they were teenagers and they were all mesmerized. Like it was fascinating. Even Disneyland, still the Magic Kingdom, but it's very different. Japan's one of the coolest places. Early on, you traveled a lot as a skater before you'd hit the success you've had now. I got to ask a question I know everyone is thinking because multiple people said I should ask, racking up all these miles. Because I know you weren't making a lot in the early days, especially in that kind of mid part of your career. What was that like? You started getting tall, uncomfortable. We're using points. We're trying to get status and upgrades. Honestly, I didn't fly first class until I was in my 30s. Were you optimizing things when you traveled thinking, okay, I'm going to rack up a bunch of miles. But also I just learned how to travel more efficiently and a little bit lighter and how to navigate airports and lines and where the best security checkpoint is instead of the one where everyone's just being fed into just stuff like that. I guess I learned how to be a better traveler in those days, but I'd learn the value of frequent flyer miles through those years, especially when I wasn't making very much money, but I still have to travel to go do stuff. I collected a lot of miles. I mean, I was a million mileer on United very early on. You know what they sent me for that? Luggage tax. That was going to be my guess. It's not a very rewarding experience. Sorry. Here we go. Ten bucks. What would some of the things if you were telling your favorite travel hacks to how you make your life efficient when you travel, whether it's a secret neck pillow or some crazy eye mask? Well, let's see. I just flew home from New York and it was last minute. And so I'm in the bulkhead. It's not some great hack, but if you want to travel with your laptop or anything else, because you have to put your backpack up in the overhead, we're getting into the weeds here, but if you're in the bulkhead, take your laptop out and put it right under your feet so that half of it's under your own seat. And then the other half, you just lightly put your heels on it. It'll hide it from flight attendants. And then you have your laptop. You don't have to go up and get it. Yeah. I love it. One of those laptop sleeves. I like to get like a black one because then it just blends in everywhere. Yeah, I'm pretty good at just hiding it all together. And then usually like I'll have a little bag. It's actually my toiletry kit. And then I just stuff like my headphones and my iPhone cable and everything you need. Everything I need. But just put that inside the seat so then I'll see that either. That's my bulkhead hack for you. But as far as other travel, it's not like I carry some big wardrobe or anything, but I do try to keep it down to a carry on and a backpack. If I can't at all costs because I don't want to check bags, I'll tell you the biggest travel hacks for skateboards and people will travel with skateboards. But you can travel with the skateboard and put it in the overhead anywhere in the US. If you're making a connection, say in Frankfurt or London or even Tokyo, you can't carry your skateboard on the plane through those airports. So I've been told a couple of times I've actually gotten away with it once and I learned the hard way like going through London, you're in the terminal, you're connecting, but you know how you have to go through another security checkpoint? You can't bring your skateboard. You have to go outside the airport on a connecting flight and check it in. And probably Mr. Flight maybe. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I've actually thrown a skateboard away because of that. Yeah. And they said, oh, you got to check it out. I don't have time. They go, well, I don't know what to tell you. And then I put it in the trash can at the security checkpoint. Okay. Do you think it's a safety risk? Do you think it's a weapon or? I assume. Yeah. I mean, you bring it all. Also, Mexico too, surprisingly, you can't carry a skateboard on the airplane in Mexico. So every time we travel with kids in Mexico, we've got to put them all in plastic bags. So we're a disaster coming back because we're just a bunch of luggage. That's my advice. I don't know if it's a hack. It's just my advice. Travel through Europe. Don't carry your skateboard onto the plane that is connecting. That could probably apply to other items, not that it's the end of the world to replace things like nail clippers. There's some country where you can't bring nail clippers on your plane because I remember or if it has that like slide out file thing and I've definitely gotten dinged on that. So I would say the hack is to look up what are the security requirements for the country you're transiting through or try at all costs to fly direct just to avoid. Oh, yeah. Unbossible. Yeah. Yeah. I live in San Diego, but I live in North County and you used to be able to fly from Carlsbad Airport to LAX. And so basically you could go anywhere from LAX, right? So that was always like the best way to do it. But many times our Carlsbad flight would be canceled and we just have to literally drive to Carlsbad Airport like a couple of flights canceled. Just keep going north to LAX with the skateboard thing. I remember some of my wife and I usually carry our skateboards when we go places because we like to skate around cities, you know, just this transportation if we're going by ourselves and we're coming back from Brazil maybe and we were coming through where you hand them your customs form. I'll never forget this. He grabbed my customs form and he saw my skateboard in his peripheral and immediately it was like go that way to secondary because he saw my skateboard. It was so obvious. I just saw his wheelchair and he said he's a problem. He's a skateboarder and he looked up and he saw my face and he recognized it, but he'd already handed me this red card to go to secondary and he goes, oh, you know what? Just tell them you're in a hurry. I said, oh, is that going to work for me? You're sending me to secondary where they're going to go through all myself and I'm going to tell them I'm in a hurry. That's probably not the best approach. And then my wife and I got in secondary, they wouldn't let us go to the bathroom. We were very much being interrogated. Wow. You've told lots of stories. I'll encourage anyone here to go check out the internet for all the stories of you getting recognized as other people. Is there a good one you don't share? Yeah, it still happens all the time. It's weird now because obviously, as you would know, that meme kind of took off, not the meme, but this is me telling my story. Like all the stories that tell are absolutely true, 100%. But it started happening. So it would happen pretty frequently and I was sharing it. And at some point people thought I was making it up. So I kind of stopped sharing these incidents because people were just like, come on, like really? But now it's got an appointment where it's like this vicious cycle where people now want to say it, even though they know who I am all the time. So I would say that happens probably three times a day. That interaction, like anyone ever tell you, you look like Tony Hawk. Yep. And you're the first today. But then it happens genuinely at least once or twice to when it happens genuinely. If people were following me around, they wouldn't believe it because you know what I mean? Like they hear about it and it's just like, all right, like enough with this whole, I don't even know what you call it. Mistaken identity thing. So yes, it still happens. It happens as a joke. It happens for real. I think my favorite one as of late was that I was sitting at a gate and this guy was sitting across from me at the gate and he came over to the man, you look just like Tony Hawk. Said, oh, yeah, I know. I've heard that. It's crazy. And then he went and sat back down and then a group of people came who did recognize me for real and wanted autographs and pictures. And the whole time he's watching me laughing because he's in on the joke that it's not really me. Do you know what I mean? Like he and I are sharing this inside joke somehow that these people are crazy and they're mistaken, but he just thought it was hilarious. Did you ever tell him at the end or did he ever? No, I don't. It's up to them to either decide that or to ask me. It drives my daughter crazy because a lot of times people will say it's like, you look like Tony Hawk. I'm like, yeah, that's cool. And they walk away and my daughter's like, why don't you tell him? I go, he didn't ask. So someone asks, you'll say, yeah, of course. Yeah. All right. Well, I hope whoever was sitting across through the airport is listening and they can finally come to terms with the fact that I really had way more fun in his mind making fun of people. Yeah. Like that was his thing. I'm wrong with it. So to round out travel, I'm sure you buy lots of things. Do you play the points game? Do you try to rack up points or cash back on credit cards to travel for free still? Yes. I try to focus in on one or two airlines or their partners so that I rack up the most points on them, which is for the most part United and Delta. But also all my credit card purchases go towards miles. So I use those for my team. So for instance, we have the skater, Felipe Nunez from Brazil. You might have seen him. He's double amputee. He skates like kind of sitting on his board. He's amazing. It's crazy. He's I'll find a link to him. He's like, it truly deserves to be a pro skater. Like he is incredible and has only gotten better. But it's tricky because he lives in a really small town a couple hours from Sao Paulo. So on curateba. So for me to get him flights is always really tricky and challenging, but I do it using my points and I can get him his flights all the time. He has to travel with kind of a handler and it's a whole thing. And I use that for his flights. I use them for my other skaters flights if they need to get somewhere for a skate trip or whatever. And it's been awesome. Everyone's always surprised like no matter how successful you are, no matter how famous or rich or whatever you are, everyone still wants to make sure that when they're spending money on their card, they're getting like the most they can out of their rewards. Yeah. And also just with me, sometimes other groups do my travel. If I'm going to an event, I do a lot of speaking gigs, corporate gigs and whatnot and conferences. And so sometimes it's up to them to the travel and they don't plug in my advantage number or my, you know, my mileage plus number or whatever. And it's such a hassle. Like it all seems so frivolous, but it's important because it's like you can go to a different line. Yeah. And for security or whatever it is. And there's just some efficiency to it. And when you travel as much as I do, those things count for a lot. I know someone who's part of their rider for speaking is like, I will book my flights and you will reimburse me because I just don't want. That is usually what we do. But every once in a while, it slips through the cracks. Well, if anyone's listening, if you ever take a flight and you didn't put your number in, you can actually retroactively ask for credit. So if you ever forget, yes, the airlines do allow you to do that. It's better to do it at a ticket counter though. Yes. They can do it faster than. Immediately, that's the other thing is people like they wield such great power at the ticket counters. They could literally just put you on a flight to London first class without blinking an eye if they wanted to. It always amazes me when something happened and they're yelling at this person. And I'm like, you realize the person that holds the keys to whatever your situation will be. Is that person? And who is not responsible for your delay or for your seat mix up? I think just being nice to the person at the desk can pay dividends on so it's anybody. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No, I agreed. I've never scored this kind of mythical. We're just going to upgrade you for no reason kind of thing. Obviously, if you have status, you can get it. But everything else like, oh, my flight's gone. They could decide, do I want to put you on that easy connection? Or do I want to just give you a coupon and you can get a hotel and come back tomorrow. And playing that game has been very helpful. And if that line's too long, I always try to call and see if I can get someone faster than a long line. When a flight's canceled and there's 100 people lined up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I have all the apps, you know, the flight track that will sometimes alert me to a problem by flight before the airline does. So I'm always kind of ahead of the curve with that where it's like, oh, this thing's getting canceled. I'm going to go figure this out before everyone else at the gate knows that's what's happening. And you're like telling that you're like, if the flight's canceled, you're like, what? Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. You're telling them. That we haven't talked a lot about is around health and fitness. And people like Laird Hamilton go nuts about everything they do with their regime for exercise, sauna, all this stuff. Skateboarding, I think some people, especially when I was a kid, like didn't even see it as a physical sport. I can assure you, I'm sure you can assure everyone that it is. How much was kind of diet exercise training outside of skating important? Or how has that evolved as you've gotten older? I think in the early days, I didn't recognize the importance of my diet and training and whatnot. But I was so obsessed with skating that that was all my exercise. And that was enough because I was skating three to four hours a day every day, giving it a mile. So I think that over time, and also just seeing my peers, I saw a lot of them not taking care of themselves, drinking too much, partying, and really kind of losing their skill sets. And so skating was always such a paramount importance to me that I was never going to let that happen. And I saw it by example, like, oh, man, he's not skiing good. Oh, that's because he won't stop partying. And so for me, that was sort of the first lesson was not completely but clean living, for the most part. But as I grew older, then I realized the importance of diet and of trying to stay active when I can't skate and now, especially on my age and with my current recovery, I've learned that I got to stay active even if I can't skate, I got to. And I need to do so much stuff to help. I'm recovering from a broken femur from last year. I need to do so many things to help that healing. At one point, it was a full time job. And I had to kind of back off from it because I was like, maybe I just need to wait, just give it time instead of trying to do all these other things like hyperbaric chamber and laser treatment and acupuncture and peptides. And I was going all the way in with all those treatments. And at some point, I actually went the wrong way with my recovery, but only because I couldn't stop skating. So my bone never connected to itself. It never actually became one bone again. So I had it reset two months ago. Are there things that you've experimented with, whether it's diet or different kinds of treatment that you think you'll keep in a routine that are lasting or things like breathwork or yoga or any of those things that are part of your routine? I think swimming helped me with my strength a lot when I wasn't skating. So I'm going to lean into that more going forward, including with my skating and just trying to, you know, it was more like not eating to excess and not indulging in sweets and sodas and stuff like that. I still carry a lot of my habits from as a kid, then I still enjoy, you know, not the healthiest of foods, but I don't go all in on just fast food and just more stuff that's going to slow me down and try to make a concerted effort to take supplements to eat greens, less processed foods, stuff like that. What kind of supplements? Well, I take quite a few, but most importantly, I have to take a stat now because I have high cholesterol because of my family history. So I take Cunal CoQ10. It was funny because they reached out to me about possibly doing endorsement. Like, do you know what this is? You know, I take it. I literally take it every day. And so I was kind of the perfect one for their campaign. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's stuff like that, but multi vitamins too. Okay. And a bevy of other ones, just trying to keep all my levels balanced. What about the morning routine? Are you early up and early after it? Yeah. Well, we still have one at home. I got to make sure my daughter is up and getting ready by 7am. So I'm usually up by 630. That's not crazy early, but sometimes it's 6. And that's kind of my time to try to go through my communications, emails and whatnot, because as the day starts and as like she goes to school, I come here. This is my office. This is my ramp is things get crazy through the day. And so it's hard to stay on top of communication. To live your healthiest, longest life possible, you need to understand what's going on inside your body. Created by experts from Harvard, Tufts and MIT, Inside Tracker provides a personal health analysis and data driven wellness guide to help you live healthier, longer. 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All you have to do is visit allthehacks.com slash Athletic Greens. Again that's allthehacks.com slash Athletic Greens to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. I just want to thank you quick for listening to and supporting the show. Your support is what keeps this show going. To get all of the URLs, codes, deals and discounts from our partners, you can go to allthehacks.com slash deals. So please consider supporting those who support us. I heard you say in a podcast almost five years ago that your kryptonite was time. I'm curious if in the last few years you've made any changes whether it's to time management or anything that made you more productive. Yeah, I've learned to say no. It's hard, especially when things are growing and things are successful and people are asking for your time and for you to attend events or for you to do interviews and things like that. And at some point I thought I don't need to do these things and I don't think that they are necessarily beneficial. I don't know. They just don't seem like they should be so obligatory. I'm honored that people want to talk to me and that people want me to do stuff. But at some point I needed for my own sanity and also for my own family dynamic to just be available to them and not be on the move all the time or just home on my phone. I think that's one thing that people don't necessarily recognize is that just because you are a home, if your attention is elsewhere you're not really home. I think it's something that when you have young kids you start to realize, wow, the number of times I'm just a little bit distracted because they run off and you're like, whoa, I was distracted. They're no longer interested. Well, they're trying to show you something and you're like, uh-huh, yep, uh-huh, and you think that that's good enough. But they see that that can affect them. In some ways it might have been much easier to be a parent before all of the distraction that we have today's. Right, yeah. In other ways I think it was way harder. Yeah. I was very young, I was 24 when my first film was born and that was, you know, there were no DVRs. We were still using VHS and he would wake up super early and sometimes before Sesame Street was on the air. You know what I mean? Yeah, you're like, we do. Yeah, what do we get? Let's read a book or do something. You learn to entertain the old fashioned way. Storytelling. Find this on flights now. It's like you're on a flight. You're on Southwest. There's no TVs. There's no, you're sitting there and you're like, it's amazing how kids are like, I want to run around and you're like, well, you can't run around. Yeah. I want to read a book. Okay. Five minutes in. I don't want to read a book anymore. So I think flights in that kind of toddler age are really tough. Tell you a hack for toddlers since you do have young ones and this is going to be weird, but it worked for me a couple of times. My son was prone to being carsick sometimes and on planes too. Sometimes we would be walking through a terminal or something and then he would just bark. And I learned that it's very easy to remove your shoe or move one sock, use that as a rag and just throw the sock away and deal with just wearing one sock the rest of your trip or your day to save from having to try to go some massive cleanup effort. The sock burp cloth. Sock burp cloth. Yeah. I've done it a few times. The last thing we didn't really talk on was around money. So early on in your career, you were making six figures in high school. I'm trying to comprehend that. Most people in high school are making maybe a couple bucks on a side gig. What was the relationship with money like back then? Well, it was all a big surprise because it wasn't like you got into skateboarding to be Richard famous. No one had become Richard famous. No one made money doing it. You just did it because you loved it. And all of a sudden there was this fame and there was this money and I was in my late teens. I'd say I started making pretty good money around 16, 17. And it was like, Oh, this is awesome. I'm going to take all my friends to Hawaii. I'm going to Sharp image and buying all the gear. And at some point, my dad gave me the best advice. He said, I really think he should put some of that money away. I was like, why? I said, it's just going to keep raining down on me. And he said, well, you just don't know if this is going to last because he really wanted me to go to college. It's like, if you're going to do this, you should really save from what you're making here. So when I was 17, he co-signed a mortgage. I had the income to qualify, but I literally was not old enough to sign the paperwork by myself. So he co-signed on a house for me. So I lived in my own place as a senior in high school as if I was in college. Parents weren't there. So and then I had all the high school parties. I had one roommate that was also at the same high school. We had two older roommates that just had jobs, but were young enough to be taking advantage of the situation. You know, when you're in high school, whoever's friends are out of town, that's where the party is. Whoever's friends, parents were out of town. That's the house where the party is, right? My parents were never in town. So my house was always where the party was. And it was very challenging to stay focused on school when I'm already making more than my teachers and everyone's coming over to hang out. And then I'm supposed to get up early and drive to high school. But I did mostly because of how important my parents, how much they valued education. My mom was a teacher at a junior college at the time. And so I knew they'd be really disappointed if I just left. So finishing high school was like a very important. Yeah, it was important. And then did you keep saving or was the house the kind of saving grace? Because you can have it. The house was saving grace. Well, I got in kind of over my head. So a few years later, I bought another property. I built a bunch of big ramps on it. It was a four acre lot here in kind of East San Diego. And at some point, not long after that, my income started dropping by half by half every month because it was all royalty based. It was all based on items or products with my name on it. Skating was taking a downturn in popularity. So suddenly skating is not popular. My name is not popular. My products aren't selling. And I'm stuck with two mortgages, my first child on the way. And it was like, how did I get here? This is crazy. So I sold my house for basically, I take an equity out of it to start a skate company, which seems like not the smartest move at a time when your income is dropping. But I wanted to stay in the industry and I wanted to at that point have more control over a brand because up to then I had been skating for the same sponsor for 10 years. And their popularity was waning. So with skateboarding and I thought, well, I could probably just start a brand and be behind the scenes because it seems like now my career as a skater. Is starting to fall apart. I could at the very least be effective as sort of a team manager, curator, marketer. And so I took the equity out of my house, started Birdhouse skateboards, sold the house for what I owed on it, then moved back into the house I was living at as a senior in high school. And for probably three to four years, lived off of top ramen, peanut-brantrulli sandwiches, Taco Bell, and just made it work. And those were the years when I started to have to travel to make ends meet like Japan and bring my son along. You know, I mean, that's how that all unraveled. There wasn't childcare at home to help out because if you're in top ramen, it's tough. So how did that evolve? Like now, are you much more passionate or interested about money and saving and all of that? Or where did your relationship? I think I have a much more respect for saving money and for making sure everyone's taken care of. Especially with our kids. I want them to all forge their own way for sure. But at the same time, we want to be able to know that we have a nest egg in case something goes south. So my relationship is just that I have much more reverence and respect for it. And that I also don't take every single opportunity. That's the reason why I had so many relationships fall apart too, because I just kept chasing the carrot. Even when it was huge, even when I didn't need to at all, I just kept going. It was like I couldn't turn it off. And then at some point, I realized like what I'm missing my kids' formative years, chasing some dream that I've already realized. Yeah, I think at a different scale, it's something that we all face is like, you have kids and you're like, I can't go to the thing, I can't go to the thing. And I think if you pause and reflect for a moment, you're like, but it's okay. But it's so hard to process. And like FOMO is definitely real. But if there's one thing that your kids can teach you, even when they're really young, it's like you can miss the thing. Like it's okay. Oh, yeah, it's okay. And also if you really devote yourself to that time with your kids, you just see the gleam in their eye and you see that they appreciate it. They're not going to speak it to you. Good luck getting your kids to say thank you, by the way, for anything. But they do appreciate it and they thrive because of it. But I think it was just that I had gotten so used to the hustle of not being successful and all the time trying to create something, trying to make something happen that when it started to happen in droves, how could I let it go? That seems crazy. That's impossible. Why would I not do that? And at some point I lost myself in it. Is there something that you wish you'd known or you'd wish someone had told you that could have gotten you out of that earlier? I don't think so. I think it was all so new and fantastical to me that I don't think I was going to listen to a voice of reason. You know what I mean? And so now you've got plenty of things that could keep you busy. What's the focus now? I mean, you're still skating or you will probably after you heal. Now I'm just so thankful to still be in the scene and to be able to bear witness to skateboarding's massive acceptance. I don't want to say growth. I mean, it definitely has grown hugely in the last five or 10 years. But just to see it come of age and to be an activity, a sport, a lifestyle that is all inclusive, that is super diverse, that is now an Olympic sport. It's something that transcends boundaries, cultures, economics, people that get to get to the other skate. They don't care where you're from. They just care how you skate and it's low cost of entry. And so to see it come this far and to still be considered relevant, that's the greatest joy I have. So what am I doing? I'm doing whatever I can to still be an advocate for skating and to be able to skate myself because that still is the most fun for me. But kind of whatever comes along. And like I said, I do a lot of speaking gigs now, which I never imagined would be a way of living or a source of income. I say it all the time because when I go to these things, it's just like, look, I never imagine anyone would pay me to skate. So I certainly never imagined people would pay me to talk about skateboarding. But here we are. And it's a blast. I love it. What's the advice to someone who's passionate about a thing that's not necessarily a revenue source for their life right now? It's what's going to bring you the most joy. And it's worth it. If you go to work and your work makes you happy, that's living the dream. At any level. And if it's very successful financially, great. That's just sort of gravy. But it's more about your peace of mind. And I think that if there is something that makes you truly happy and maybe you have to do something else to supplement your income, try to balance those things as best you can. I've actually turned my position on this in the past few years. I used to say, oh, go follow your passion. Find a way to make that your job. But if you have a job that allows you to follow your passion, not as a job, that's okay. Yeah, that's enough. My brother-in-law went pro golfing and then hated it because it was his job. And then got a job and just golfs on the weekend and loves it. And so I think for some people, even pursuing it to some extent can actually take away. I don't know if there was ever a moment in your career where it was like skating to win competitions and to win trophies was just too much and it took away the fun. Yeah, for sure. I especially in the late 80s, I became a machine and it was very cyclical and it was like, all right, there's an event coming up next weekend. I've got to learn a couple new tricks for the event because the judges saw my current roster of tricks. So I got to hide it from them and then unleash it in the finals. But it became so formulaic that it really was not fun. And at some point, I just pulled away and stepped away from it all together because skating had become a job. It wasn't fun for me. And when I did pull away, I got very creative with my skating and I was able to really learn a lot of different techniques and a lot of stuff that I wanted to pursue, even though I wasn't making a living at it at the time. I mean, I kind of was I still had signature skateboards and whatnot. But when you're not in those years, if you were not competing actively, you were not going to get coverage. You were not going to get career opportunities. But I was willing to let those go to just at least be happy with it. And so it gave me this sort of new energy to come back to competing and with a different approach that was less careful and it was more risky. That was it. I came out with a sense of I'm going to just try everything. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I don't care if my competitive record is so pristine anymore. I'd rather just do this and take the chances and have fun doing it. And if it works, then it's going to work. Awesomely. The downside to that was that when I did come back to competing, it was when skateboarding was starting to take a downturn. So I came back with this renewed energy and I was winning a lot of big events. And all of a sudden it was like, what happened? Where's the crowd? Where's the contest? Where's the prize money? You guys like turn the machines back on. I thought this was cool. It was kind of like the wrong place at the right time. But you probably wouldn't have had the career you had after that had that not happened. No, no, because in those dead years, I was skating more than ever, having fun doing it, you know, learning new tricks and learning new techniques. It was just that I wasn't doing it in front of crowds because the crowds weren't there anymore. I think I'm very fortunate. And I think you did the same with your podcast. Like when you start a podcast, if you can start it not needing to be your job and your business, you could do whatever you want with it. When I started it, I never thought I'd be going over countries as episodes. And then I was like, you know, I'm going to London. I want to talk to someone who knows everything about London. I was making an episode about London and then we did one on Japan. So I think when you really start to do what you're passionate about in your work, it sometimes creates an even better experience. And people love these episodes and I never had an idea. Oh, yeah. My co-host Jason Ellis and I, we have a lot of experience, obviously skating, but just life experience. He had a totally different path than I did. And when we have guests, especially with non-skating guests, we relate to them in different ways that people would not expect, but in a very parallel way. For instance, we had two wrestlers on that's our most recent guest, and Darby Allen and Jamie Hader. And people were like, why would you have them on? And then when we started talking about our experiences and our injuries, we were right in line and we were bouncing off of each other. And it was a really great conversation. It was fascinating to say what you want about wrestling or that it's made up or whatever. Those guys take as much abuse as skateboarders. I listened to this episode. It was wild. I don't think I've gotten that behind the scenes look at wrestling. It hasn't been a passion of mine, but it was super fascinating. And you don't have to say who, but I know there's some cool guests coming down the pike. So if anyone's listening wants to check it out, we have an insane roster coming up. And I feel like now we're starting to hit our stride and we've been doing a couple of years. So you're right. It wasn't something that we needed, but we enjoyed doing it. And we did find that we had something unique to offer. We found a groove. We found an audience. It was just that we weren't doing all the right things with the algorithms and the promotions. And so now we have a group, a malca that is taking the reins on that and they've been doing a great job. So we get to focus more on the content. Podcast is great. I enjoy it, especially because I have my childhood skate dreams still somewhere buried in my head. For anyone else listening, where else do you want to send them to keep it on top of whatever you're doing? Well, I'm out there on all the social media. That was Tony Hawk. Luckily. I think I had to buy one of someone squatted my name on some platform early on. So I'm Tony Hawk and all the social media. And that's where I put all of my content out there. We have the Hawk versus Wolf podcast. I think if anything, my energy also is directed towards the skate park project, which is my foundation for public skate parks in underserved areas. We have been doing it over 20 years now. We've helped to fund over 1000 skate parks in the US alone. We have a couple of international projects as well. And I guess my proudest work because when I was growing up skating, skate park was my salvation. I was an outcast kid. I was bullied at school, but I found my tribe and my community at the skate park. And I was very lucky that the park that I grew up skating at was one of the last ones in the US in the mid 80s. There were only a handful. And that was never lost on me how lucky I was to have that place to go and to have that crew. So when I was in a position to advocate and to possibly affect change, that's what I focused in on was public skate parks. I grew up kind of at the born in the early 80s. I was in that kind of dearth of lack of skate parks. Lack of skate parks. And I think my community was like the guy that lived across the street that had a skate park. That was it. It was the two of us. And also that these kids that they find something they love, they maybe live in an area where there's not much opportunity. They find something they love and they're mostly told that they can't do it. Because they're trespassing or they're a nuisance. They put things to prevent you from doing it. Right. Or their new system. This kid has finally found something that speaks to them. And now you're discouraging them from that. What are you doing to your community? So to have those parks, the kids feel like they matter. And that they can find their crew. I think the best part about the foundations, we try to empower groups that are already doing it themselves or trying to do it themselves. Like they're trying to fundraise or they're going to city council meetings or they're petitioning all those things matter. And it feels like you're in an uphill battle that will never end. Especially with the red tape and the bureaucracy and city councils. But we give them the roadmap to do it the right way. And when we do give them our endorsement and possibly funding, that's usually the tipping point for them to get it approved officially. And so for us, it's empowering those go-getters that we're trying to do it in the first place. I love it. So you should all definitely check out the podcast and the socials, but definitely check out the skate park project. Skate park project. I wish that it was around 30 something years ago for me. I know. It would have been awesome. Yeah. Any parting advice for anyone who looks at you and says, Gosh, when I'm in my 50s, I want to be doing the thing I love and performing at that level. Wow. What can I say? My approach always has been to keep improving what I do. And at my age, that's shifted a bit from trying to do these big spins and these big stunts to more subtle techniques, but something that I feel like is progressive. And I'm talking about just in terms of physical skating, but also just my approach to life is like to not wrestle my accolades, to keep trying to improve what I do, keep evolving, listen to other input, and glean what you can from them, glean what is appropriate to what you do. I'm fascinating listening to people who are passionate about what they do, whether that's successful or not, just to hear what drives them. And a lot of times you can translate that to what you do. Is our favorite way you consume these stories, podcasts you like, books you like. For these days, this is actually doing my own podcast because I like to invite people that I think are fascinating and really get into their story. Like we interviewed this girl who's a, she's the most decorated Paralympian now. Her name's Aksana Masters, who grew up in a Ukrainian orphanage after Chernobyl and who was disfigured from Chernobyl, who came to the US. She got adopted and her story is incredible and so inspiring. I already knew a little bit of it, but to invite her on our podcast and hear all of it was fascinating. I have not listened to that. So that's my homework for the flight home today. Thank you so much for being here or for having me here. Oh yeah, thanks. This is my home away from home. I love it. Wow, that episode was so much fun and I really hope you guys enjoyed it. Big thanks to Tony for hosting me in his space and to all of you for listening. I'll be doing another Q&A episode soon, so please send over your questions, but also any awesome wins you have to share or hacks you've learned and put to use in your own life. And finally, I am about 100 rating shy of hitting my goal from last year of getting to 1000 reviews on Apple podcasts. So if you haven't left one yet, I would greatly appreciate it. It would mean so much to me. Alright, that's it for this week. See you next week. Bye.