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Hello and welcome to ASDP-SCTALK.
I am Ella Kressman, licensed esthetician, certified organic skincare formulator and
content contributor for Associated Skincare Professionals.
I am Maggie Stasik, licensed esthetician and ASCP's education program manager.
And I shout out to Valerie of SAVA Skin Therapy in Burbank, California.
Thank you for listening.
We love that you love us and that's awesome.
Maggie check this out.
We've all seen the news, but I guess it's not a big surprise because it worries from,
but holy crap, Wolverine has skin cancer.
Yeah.
No surprise though.
No surprise, but I thought that his exposure, the way that he went about talking about the
recurrence was pretty neat.
First of all, we have a man talking about it, which is awesome, talking about the dangers
and such.
Now he lives in Australia, so their son is a little more intense in that area.
But in early April, he took to social media and he starts warning people about the dangers
of sun tanning and skin cancer, sun exposure.
This is something that we know here because of where we are in relation.
The sun's a little more intense where we are geographically, but we have both been guilty
of saying, go for it.
Dance in the sunshine.
Yeah, gets your sun beams on.
Anytime there's a revelation about skin cancer or something like this, does this ever scare
you or challenge those thoughts for you?
Yeah, I suppose.
I mean, hearing this news story, no, it didn't.
I just feel like it's another celebrity news story and I move on.
But I will say, as a young girl teenager, I always was in the backyard trying to tan,
which for those of you listening, I am like a Fitzpatrick too.
Tanning is not a possibility for me.
So what that meant is terrible sunburns, blisters, that would then crust up, I maybe
would get a little tan and then it would be gone in less than a week.
Now as an adult, I am like sunscreen, a ditto every day of the week.
And I will say also that I have had little spots removed by the dermatologist, little
pre-cancer lesions and I'm very aware now, being sure that I don't have anything like
a basal carcinoma popping up or an actinic keratosis popping up.
So that's kind of where my mindset is now.
Okay, that makes sense.
I have to be fair and honest that I will not head to toe, but often if I'm in the elements
in this, I am that client.
This is the client that I talk about sometimes.
It's like, do you wear sunscreen only when I'm outside?
But that is true for me often for the neck down.
For the neck up, it's easy, breezy.
And honestly, I bring it down to my ductile.
It's part of my routine now at this point because I have moisturizers with SPF in it.
I have to be honest with the reason I don't put daily SPF on the rest of my body is because
those types of products are an extra.
So it goes beyond just the daily moisturizer that I use on my body.
I'm going to have to take another step.
And I also have to point out at this time, not a lot of the formulations are super desirable
from a skin experience standpoint.
They are functional.
They're meant to do, you know, one of two things.
We've talked before about ingredients and for body sunscreen, unless you're getting baby
sunscreen usually, they're talk full of chemicals.
And for me, that's counterintuitive.
So on the daily, I won't.
But if I'm out in the elements, finally ever get to take another vacation because it's
been a little bit, then yes, I will at that time.
But as far as my hands or my forearms or anything else, normally, no, even yard work,
yes.
But I also try to avoid that.
I'd rather just be outside down with the SPF.
So I was doing some trolling on options for SPF.
And I think body care in general is becoming more sophisticated.
We're seeing more anti-aging body care.
So I feel that this imminent that we will have a high quality, like double duty or triple
duty product coming so that that would be nice.
So we have something that offers protection and hydration, something functional that it
makes sense.
It's not another step.
It's not going to stick to my clothes.
It's not going to make my black shirt white or with a cast or something like that.
But that's why I don't, in all honesty, why I don't wear it head to toe every day.
And there are actually professionals out there that preach, hands are healthy.
And of course, sun exposure is good for you.
That's how you're synthesizing your vitamin D.
And I synthesize a lot whenever I can.
Then I just don't get the same effect from this.
I got this sunless tan lotion because I just feel pasty right now.
I haven't been able to be outside and be as active as I was before.
So I had my husband help me put it all over.
I had my arms stretched out like a starfish.
You know, like, okay, I got it all.
And it just it stinks.
It does.
You have to wait one eight hours for it to set.
And then, you know, when it did set, I had streaks from putting my pants on or whatever,
you know, it was like, it's a job.
You have to do it every few days and stuff.
So it's pretty safer, but I still get that, that look, but as it fades away, it's kind
of freaky.
But let's go back to basal cell carcinoma.
So one thing that two Jackman did say is he quoted when he was doing his video, he said,
just to remind you, basal cell in the world of skin cancers is the least dangerous of
them all.
However, if I can just take this opportunity to remind you, summer is coming.
And I thought that was gold.
They're winding down their summer.
They're heading into their autumn and winter.
But let's talk about basal cell carcinoma and what it is.
Yeah, I think that most destitians are familiar with all the types of skin cancer and the
ABCDs of detecting skin cancer.
It's one of the things that you learn pretty quickly in a static school, but it most often
develops in those sun exposed areas.
So you're going to find it like on the tip of the nose, for instance, so face is very
common.
Declotet is very common.
And it's a type of cell within the skin that produces new skin cells as the old ones die
off.
Because it's in the basal layer.
Yeah, exactly.
And I love dissecting names, you know, like my big fat Greek wedding.
You tell me any world and I'll tell you it has a Greek root.
I feel like that in a lot of ingredients and such.
And here's a really good one.
So this is why the treatments and such are potentially so invasive.
It's because they have to get down into the epidermis into the basal layer to like stop
the problem where it starts.
So what are we looking for?
What are some of the things?
How do we identify basal cell carcinoma?
Well, it's going to usually be a pink kind of pearlescent lesion on the skin.
It may flake off and continuously return flake off, continuously return.
And that's a good indication.
It's something that needs to be checked by a dermatologist.
I think what you just described is what we see often on the faces professionals.
They don't, they clients come to us and say, have this, it keeps peeling.
It keeps peeling.
And so that's a great indication to refer to a physician of some sort to have that looked
at because it's not just a warning for us to be very cautious with treatment, but also
for them to have it checked out before.
And that's okay.
I think one of the things to be very careful about is how you deliver that information
or that suggestion.
You don't want to be like, oh my gosh, I'm pretty sure this is a basal cell carcinoma.
This is how I handle it.
And then I want to hear how you would handle it.
I handle it.
I say this, this is not normal skin behavior.
It's something you may want to have your doctor look at and they can, they have different
tools and they can see different things.
So that would be something I would strongly suggest you have your physician, your primary
care or whatever look at.
And often I get, should I make that appointment right away?
You know, I get like those panic questions and just soothing them into, you know, whenever
you feel comfortable, but sooner than later, so good.
But not like, oh my gosh, this is something you've done.
911, the sky is falling.
How would you handle it?
I handle it very similar.
I ask my client, how long have they had this lesion?
What are the behaviors of this lesion?
So you know, finding out, has this been there for an extended period of time as opposed to,
it's only been there for a couple of days.
And is this something that disappears and reappears?
Is it flaking and coming back?
That's a good indication for me that my client probably should go to the dermatologist.
And then just as you said, I'm not.
Oh my God, panic.
You know what?
You have cancer.
That's not how we handle it because we're not diagnosing, right?
Just letting my client know, you know what, that's a little suspicious.
You know, you may want to go and see your dermatologist and have them take a look.
I think that is sound advice, but there's other presentations of these space list cells.
So it's good to understand other ways that they appear.
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Okay, here we go.
Let's get back to the podcast.
Basal cell carcinoma, it can be shiny or pearly.
It can be a bump.
Sometimes it's described as translucent, meaning you can see through it to the surface of the
skin.
The bump can look pearly, like I said, white pink skin.
Sometimes on brown or black skin, the bump often looks brown or glossy black.
And often you could may even see blood vessels that are running through the lesion.
If the lesion is flaking, it's not uncommon, especially if this lesion has progressed, that
it's bleeding or scabbing over.
As Hugh Jackman mentioned, this is the least dangerous of all of the cancers.
However, I like to think of something like this.
It's a morphing of the cell.
And so basically in the basal layer, there has been a change in the way the cells are
formed.
The DNA sequence is off.
The telomeres are cut and now it's reforming in a different way.
I think of word on the streets.
So anytime you have a morphing of cells, there's an opportunity for other morphing of cells
that it needs to be addressed immediately.
I also think that it's a good idea to keep that type of exposure.
There's potential for other more serious types of cancer.
So a complete overview by a dermatologist.
And to be quite honest, I think I need to go, do you go to the dermatologist every year?
I don't.
I should, but I don't.
It's kind of one of those things where if I'm experiencing that suspicious lesion, that's
when I go.
I think I need to start.
I think I'm of that age.
There's a lot of things that I'm going to have to start doing and this is one of them.
So maybe I'll do it this year and then let you guys know my experience because that sounds
freaky to me to be checked over.
But I'm going to imagine I probably have this on my back because just like you, now
I'm a higher Fitzpatrick.
So I do hold tan, but just like you, in my youth, I would blister.
So I know there's damage from previous encounters or whatever.
One time I blistered so bad I had sun poisoning.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, I had like little baby blisters, but shaking and ooh, shivering.
I was on a lake on a boat, having a good time and you're on that wind is blowing.
You have no idea.
And then you get off and it's like, well, I'm so hot.
It was really bad.
So I've had some doozies, but I'm going to have to get that checked.
But it's important.
Like Maggie said, that we don't diagnose this needs to be diagnosed by a professional.
I think some people don't go get checked or don't have treatment because they don't understand
what is going to happen.
And that diagnosis has been determined.
So let's talk about some unce like the worst case scenarios.
I know for me, I've had clients who have had some removals and there's a couple different
ways that they have been treated.
Some are cut out, some are burnt off and some would use creams like chemotherapy creams
to kill the cancer cells.
Have you heard of anything different?
All of those things I've heard of experienced myself or family has experienced as well.
All very effective.
And I think when you go to the doctor and get checked, depending on the nature of your
condition and as well your past history, that will dictate the type of treatments you're
having.
Did you have your scraped or cut?
I had it scraped.
Yeah.
And you know, they're taking like slices of tissue, examining that tissue and then determining
our cancer cells present.
Do we need to keep slicing?
That's the doctor ASARCH method.
And do you know Dr. ASARCH is from here?
I do, yeah.
It's cool.
A little hometown pride.
Yeah, that's, I don't want to say that's awesome, but that's really thorough and comprehensive.
That's a really good way to do that.
There are some people early on, early on that's detected, let's get it, let's take it off
and they would have scars.
But the treatment has come such a long way since then that don't let that scare you.
There's something for you.
She was two years younger than me in high school and of course I follow her on Facebook.
Probably wouldn't hang out in real life, but she had some, like she had the cream and
stuff, but she was tan, she worked at a tanning salon in high school even.
So something to think about.
And now let's talk about how to avoid it.
How do we avoid the possibility when like you and I've said, we've had this exposure
as younger humans.
The things we learn as we age, but from now on ways to avoid it.
Yeah, well, obviously your SPF, your sun protection, we've talked about the ingredients in those
sun protections.
For me personally, it's always a zinc based product, but whatever you have, just use it
and then be reapplying.
And then of course, wear your hats if you're out in the garden or going to a baseball
game or whatever it is.
Just be sure that you are reapplying, you're shading yourself and you're not purposefully
like we did as teenagers soaking up that sun and burning yourself because that's something
then later in life.
You can see crop up as DNA damage that is leading to cancer.
You know what I saw speaking of reapplying because it's not always easy.
You go to the baseball game, for example, you sit down in the sun, you have to take these
clear bags and you're going to put sunscreen in them.
It's one thing that I did see recently on my Amazon trolling, there was this one product
that I was interested in because it was a clear gel.
I found out that it's a chemical, so I wasn't.
That's where it ended.
But in my research, my research, I also found another powder that's cheaper than the current
powders on the market by a quarter.
It's like 25% of the other ones.
So there is a lot more options.
Even going to a big box beauty store or a department store like Target, there's a section now of
chemical freeze, which they didn't have before.
Yeah.
I think there's so much to that because there are a lot of ingredients that are banned when
you're going into the ocean.
You can't use those products because it's going to harm the marine life.
And to your point with the powder, I have seen that and it's a great way to reapply.
It's not going to interfere if you're wearing makeup, for instance.
It's very quick, easy.
You're not going to get the shine or the white cast if you're using a zinc product.
On the other side, the flip side to that though, there should be conversation around the fact
of, well, my makeup has SPF and that's good enough.
Yes and no.
It's really important to be applying an SPF and then putting your makeup on top of that,
I think.
I think so too.
I could double down.
It doesn't hurt anything.
And there's so many products on the market now that have beauty bombs or moisturizers that
have SPF in it that will just fortify the makeup SPF.
So I agree.
So always look for a SPF product but also keep in mind, HEV, that's the new threat on
the block that is high energy visible light cast from devices.
So blue light.
But listeners, we really want to hear from you.
What are your thoughts on Hugh Jackman having skin cancer?
Are your clients talking about it?
Does it make the conversation about sunscreen easier?
Be sure to let us know.
Reach out on social media or send us an email at get connected at ascpskincare.com.
We want to know all the details.
In the meantime, thank you for listening to ASCP ST talk.
For more information on this episode or for ways to connect with Maggie or myself or to
learn more about ASCP, check out the show notes and stay tuned for the next episode of
ASCP ST.
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