Ep. 112: Bear Grease [Render] - Three or Four Dogs ’til You’re Dead

FHF's brand new FOB Bino Harness is a fully enclosed forward operating Bino harness that serves as a secure location for your binoculars and other critical gear during your outdoor pursuits. This harness is a feature rich American made product with magnetic closures, laser cut molly attachment panels and more. What's more is it comes with our new airframe shoulder harness and wind call pouch. Get ahead of your season planning and check out the industry's best Bino harness for real. This is the industry's best Bino harness only at FHF gear dot com. My name is Clay Nukem and this is a production of the Bear Grease Podcast called the Bear Grease Render where we render down, dive deeper and look behind the scenes of the actual Bear Grease Podcast. Presented by FHF gear, American made, purpose built, hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Welcome to the Bear Grease Render. This is a much awaited Bear Grease Render. I have been working on the David Crockett series literally since we got done with Boom. And I'll have you know that I was discouraged from working on a Crockett series. Do you have any guesses who discouraged me from working on Crockett? Steve. Steve Rinella. Steve Rinella, he was like, Crockett, come on, Crockett. And so that didn't discourage me though. I continued to work on it. But I have been waiting for, I want to start off with this right here. This book, David Crockett, Lion of the West by Michael Wallace in my opinion from the books that I've read, which I've not read all the Crockett biographies. There are just almost uncountable biographies on Crockett for going way back to the 1800s. But this one is a really good one. It's really in depth, but it also is in the common man's vernacular from a guy who really was passionate about Crockett and is just a reputable historian. And so basically Michael Wallace, I was waiting on Michael Wallace to be one of the guests on the podcast. And we've corresponded a lot and it was not his fault that he couldn't, he wanted to, but he was unable to be on the podcast, but he kept thinking that he might. And so literally for a year I delayed and I have emailed him at least once every three months for a year and a half. And he's been very, very nice, but has not been able to do it. And so finally I just had to pull the trigger and I'd already gone to New York to interview Robert Morgan. He's just an expert on anybody. Like any American historical figure, you go talk to Robert Morgan and he's the man. Robert Morgan also wrote a pretty robust chapter, probably like a 40 or 50 page chapter on Crockett in his book. His book, I'm pretty sure it's called Lions of the West. Is that one called Lions? This one's called David Crockett, the Lion of the West. Yeah. So his book Lions of the West, I'm going to have to fact check it. Well, somebody looked that up. It goes through all these different historical characters and it goes through Boone and Crockett and Kit Carson and all these guys. So, but Robert Morgan was incredible. And then our Scott Williams, I just found out about him just recently went over to Tennessee, interviewed him. So, just long-awaited, long-awaited. So I'm pleased to have a very strong group of people here today. We're going to switch it up to my right. Michael Roseman, Sunspot Lights. Are you? You've been on here twice, haven't you, Michael? Twice before, yes. Twice before. Michael, Michael owns Sunspot Lights, the Coon Lights that you always see me and Brent wearing, very bottom in the meteor store. I hear you're a Crockett expert. Well, I told you, Brent thinks I'm a Crockett expert because I know more than he does, but that doesn't take much. You know, I had suspicions that you would be a Crockett guy. Why? I don't know, man. Just the way you look in that Coon skin hat. Oh, yeah. We haven't told everyone. We've been wearing legitimate Ozark Mountain dog tree Coonskin hats. Supposedly. Every one of us. One size fits all. Yeah. It was a little disagreement on that. Yeah, yeah. Yours is on your head, though. Barely, yeah. But you really look like a Crockett expert with a hat on. I bet. No, so were you, what year were you born? 76. 76. Okay, so you're not, you're just a few years older than me. Did you watch Crockett growing up like the Disney shows? Yeah, I've seen some of them. Most of it, those from reading in the last 10 years. Oh, really? Okay. So it wasn't like you had the lunch boxes. No, no. The guitars and the knives. I'm a guitar. You know, I've got an Iber. Extra large size Coonskin. I got on eBay and there's a lot of really nice David Crockett pocket knives, like legitimate vintage pocket knives you could buy for like five bucks that really are from that time. I mean, you can tell they're just kind of junk, but I almost bought a couple, but I probably will. You restart the market for that with this podcast. Yeah, I have legitimate plans to revitalize the American raccoon fur trade. Yeah, I was going to say, be honest, is this just an attempt to get the raccoon numbers down a little bit, this whole podcast? Just get people to wear Coonskin. Can't even wear the Coonskin caps. Man, I have. Did you say who made these earlier? Josh Bill, Michael. Okay. Josh Lambert, Spill, Michael made these hats for us. Yeah. So I've introduced Michael Roseman to his right. My good friend, J Webb, Jonathan Webster. Bonjour. Yeah. So Jonathan, did Ben, did you recognize Jonathan's voice? Of course you did. Yeah. On the, on the, on the show, making fool of myself. I didn't want it. I was glad to take his clip and how to clip with me. Yeah. You may be on the next one. Oh man. I didn't want to embarrass the people by telling their names. No. Like Jonathan Webster was the second. I was the third person ambushed by Clay Newcomb with a recorder asking if I knew anything about Davy Crockett and every thought in my head, which was not many, left me in that very moment. But I literally could not have told you a single thing. It was amazing how much I was just like, I don't know anything about Davy Crockett. So. It was perfect. Yeah. I was your target audience. But now you did tell me afterwards that you confused him. Yeah. You thought, who'd you think he was? Daniel Boone. Man, see, that's what I told him. You know who I wouldn't have used is Michael Roseman. He was the expert. Yeah. Crockett was a martyr. He was a fair hunter. He was a politician. He was at the Alamo. He formed American identity on manhood and self made man. I would have been like, get out of here. No, I totally confused him. And I was, and when I even said like he's a man's man, I was thinking of that song for about Daniel Boone being a big man. Oh, you're even confused. I was like, I was confused. I was confusing him all over. I didn't even. Well, but your thing played right into what I was trying to say. And you saying that he was a man's man, I brought up the question, did David Crockett inform Americans about manhood? Right. And he absolutely did. You know, in Wallace's book, he talked about how he used his bear hunting identity to bolster this hyper masculine identity. Yeah. I love it. Let's go. Yeah. You know, so now the French, were you actually speaking French? I mean, a little bit. I took French in high school right up to the point where I was about to be able to speak it. And then I dropped it. So what did you say to us? I said, I'm sorry. I don't know. I could say cheese. I'm letting French go ahead. Go ahead. I'm let do for my, I'm guessing this little Dexter's laboratory from back in the day, maybe I don't know what that is. All right. Why do you know that? Because I heard Steve Martin say it on a comedy. Say that again, Brent and what it is. I'm let do for Marge. What does that mean? Cheese omelet. Cheese omelet. It's I we've gone international now. We're sophisticated. Yeah, that that was perfect. To to your right, Ben LaGrowne, Ben, Ben's been stepping in here recently, quite a bit old history teacher, balanced families on Instagram, balanced birth couple. Honestly, I'm sorry, balanced birth couple on Instagram. Yes. Speaking of which, the first time I was on here, the first time I was on here, there was a, a Beargreens fan that had listened to us to me share the handle. And he was like this young guy, probably, you know, early twenties and passionate hunter, not married, no kids. And he was so excited that I was on Beargreens. He started promoting, you know, if anybody out there is pregnant, check this guy. That's funny. He was, he was getting pumped. That's good. That's good. Did you ever teach Crockett, Ben? Yeah, especially with the Alamo. Oh, really? Yeah, that that's always kind of mentioned. What just in American history? Yeah, American history. And you know, when you came up to me like you did J-web, I fumbled around it. I get that all the time as a history teacher. People think, because you're a history teacher, you know everything about every historical topic. I do know a substantial amount, but you can't be an expert on every topic ever. And so you always get stumped with stuff like that. And especially older people will, they'll study something really in depth. And did you read such and such and such? And you just kind of nod your head and you know, they think you're an expert because you're a history teacher. And your head. And your head. You know, I find that a lot of these guys that I want to interview, maybe that have even written a book will, well for instance, the Tecumseh series, Peter Cozins, who's an incredible author, a very legitimate historical author. When I first approached him about being on the Tecumseh series, he kind of was like, wow man, it's been a couple of years since I wrote that book. He wrote it in 2017. And you know, you read this book and you're just thinking, man this guy lives and breathes this. He could recite this book and his sleep. And he was wanting to do to come to justice. He was like, man, I want to do him justice. And so he actually went back and reread the book and then came on the podcast. And I find that he reread the book, he wrote. And so yeah, I find that just the human brain is able to pick up and remember some things in incredible detail, but typically big ideas about people. And that's why you were able to say, well, you're guessing on the wrong guy. I'm still wrong for a man's man. But most people like the spillmakers did pretty good. So I interviewed Josh and Christy Spillmaker who Josh is on here a lot. And they hit King of the Wild Frontier, the Alamo, Koon skin hat, Walt Disney song. That's basically his whole life. Yeah. And that's a pretty good, pretty good, pretty good robust little tidbit of information there. But when you start talking about the more specifics of how he actually influenced American culture and identity, then that's where I wouldn't have been able to answer that really, you know, until I'd studied it. But that's when it really gets interesting because what people remember is the high points, but like underneath the surface, the undercurrent is all these things that are there. But and then our final guest, Brent Reeves. Brent, you look good in a Koon skin hat. I mean, I look good in anything. Okay, so I asked Brent before he listed the podcast and he told me he was telling the truth. And this, and I said, make me recording of what you know about David Crockett. And that's what he said. Let's see what I know about David Crockett. He was from Tennessee. He was a bear hunter. He was elected to Congress. He was good friends with Uncle Jed from Beverly Hillbillies. He looked exactly like Daniel Boone and he died at the Alamo. Some say a hero's death. Some say others. And I don't think those folks are allowed in Texas. And that's about it. That's pretty good. That's pretty thorough. That's pretty. Yep. You hit the high points there. Somebody argue with me that he didn't look just exactly like Daniel Boone. He did as far as I knew as a kid. Walt Disney said he was a marker, right? That's right. That's a marker. I did ask my wife about it. She knew anything about David Crockett. She's from Texas. Yeah. She said she remembered that they taught that he wrote the Declaration of Independence and he was the first man to walk on the moon. Did you really say that? No, I just made all of it. But she said... She might have been joking though. Well, I did. But I said she said that he was very prominent in Texas history. Yeah. Yeah. I asked the guys from the element, the element guys, Casey Smith and Tyler Jones. Tyler. Yeah. And they didn't... They're big Texas guys, but East Texas guys. And they didn't... They were just like, ah, I mean, they didn't have like any big cultural hanging point on Crockett. So, but so was that funny? Well, I can't just see them studying near as hard in school as my wife. Yeah. I was like, now those boys are smart. I ain't saying they're not, but I would say that their minds were a little more on hunting and fishing than it was. True story. What's going on with that one? True story. Hey, this is a good reason to bring up their buck truck series on the media channel. So the element, they had their own YouTube channel for years and their own company. They now are inside of the media-edir world. And so they made a series called the buck truck, which is where they drove around the country. A hundred quite a bit of public land, some private land, and White Tail 100 and I think six or seven different states last year. And so they put up their... They've been putting up their videos every Tuesday and we're four or five in probably by the time this comes out. But it's unique because it's a way different style of video than typically what the media audience would be used to. Usually media stuff is a lot shorter than that. And yeah, they're a lot of fun. I really like... That's an intelligent, they're genuinely guys. And man, that is just how it happens. If you traveled anywhere and done any kind of hunting, I mean, you know, that's just exactly what's going on. Yeah. So a little bit more of the rough cut YouTube style travel vlog feel as opposed to... I mean, it's well produced, but as opposed to some cinematic thing, even though it's good. So anyway, those guys, yeah, they're from Texas. They don't know a thing about crocking. But I did have some people... We're going to get it, trust me. We're going to get into the stuff on the Alamo. Trust me, boys. It's going to get good. So Michael, did you see my video I put on Instagram yesterday? Which one? Catchin' the coon? Oh, no. He showed it. Yeah, yeah, I've seen it. I tagged him in it. I had to see how much I could own Instagram. That's good. That's good. I tagged Sunspot Lights. Oh, well. But when I caught that coon by a hand on the ground. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Out of the farm. Yeah, I taught you that. You did. I set it in the video. I mean, I've been around coons my whole life and I would have never thought you could catch one by hand. I've caught a bunch of them. I used to train puppies like that. I'd ride up and down the road, see them in the road ditch, run them down, give them a little boot. They'll turn around to fight you and you can catch them by the tail. Then you hold them out the window of the truck when you're going where you're going to turn the loose. That works. No, I saw Michael catch one. I think we've talked about this on the render before, but I saw Michael jump out of a side by side, run down a coon in a field. And yeah, there's a trick to it. You bump them with your foot while they're running. So, I mean, you got to be semi-coordinated to make that happen. The coon turns. He'll stop when you do that. It's been around and then you grab them by the tail and they can't reach around and bite their rear end. Well, they can. Okay. The flexible ones. They're the ones that go ahead when you caught mannada. They can. They can. Yeah. You got to kind of keep them in a spinning motion. Keep them occupied. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to kind of spin them a little bit. Keep them occupied. Kind of like you're holding a big snapping turtle. Yeah, kind of like that. Yeah. Well, hey, anything else we should talk about before we start talking about, we've kind of just jumped right in the crocodile, which is good. I have several things I can always talk about. I've actually had a question. I've been dying to ask Brent for a very long time. Can I ask it? Yeah. Yeah. Just kind of just phrase it up. Just be like, yeah, however, however you say. Okay. Well, it's pretty arbitrary. So you can cut this out. I have been dying to know the functional benefit of overalls versus just other good durable paint, work paint. I've been wanting to ask Brent that ever since we've been on the podcast together. Okay. I think it's more style style. Okay. As well as function. If you listen to this country life, I talk about all the stuff that I carry in my pockets. And I heard that. I heard that when I thought I don't know if I could quite carry all that stuff is affected like two pockets. So am I hiking cargo? The total of that stuff I would either have to carry. I'd either have to wear overalls or a backpack or a purse. And overalls was socially more accessible where I grew up. Yeah. Is that all you got? That's as deep as the philosophy goes. I can make something up real quick. Well, let me talk in the idea. Yeah, you can. You wear overalls too. Well, I think the answer primarily is one of function. Was that wrong? Was my answer wrong? It wasn't wrong. It just was it didn't have as much function and philosophy as I expected. It was missing a circle. Janae Sequah. What do you think? I think. There you go. Speaking French. The biggest reason is so he doesn't wind up like that guy that we seen on the way up here who seriously needed a belt. That's the biggest function of a pair of overalls. Okay. What I was going to say was that a pair of overalls, it takes the pressure off of your waist. Okay. And it puts it on your shoulders. And so when you wear pants and when you wear a belt, you're constantly pulling your pants up, tightening your belt. And it just it like there's this pressure around your waist. When you wear a pair of overalls, it's like you're wearing a robe. It's like it's like it's like. Now you've sold me. The energy the weight is on your shoulders and it's like a shower curtain going all the way down to your boots. And so it's more comfortable and you can bring typically wears one button undone on top. He'll button, he'll button. So there's two buttons on both sides right at the hip. And you can, you know, if you're, if you kind of fill in informal, you're around family and friends, you run them two down and you get a little more airflow. That's too much. That's hard. That's hard. Two downs a lot. Two downs a lot. Cause, but, but if you're a little bit, a little bit more formal gathering, Brent's going to be running one button. If we went to say the steakhouse, he'd probably run two up. Powerful, but possible, but I just, they're comfortable and I've grown, I've been wearing them since I was a little kid. I got pictures of me and I was, you know, three years old wearing overalls and it wasn't just wasn't them Oshkoshies or whatever, young ones where it was regular overalls and I've been, I wore them in high school all the way. I've been wearing them forever. But also what I like about them is when you're working and I don't wear them as casually as Brent does, but I wear them when I work and used to wear them a lot when I landscaped is just this frontal protection, this one piece. You know, when you're really working a lot, stuff gets down in your pants, you know, I mean, just like wood chips or grass or whatever, you know, and overalls kind of keep that from happening. You're selling me. I might have to try. They do, they, y'all need a Brent Reeves line overalls marketed as the shower robe of the Outdoors. Brent needs a pair of overalls with a flip up coonskin hat. Oh man. That's connected to the back. Yeah. Yeah. Like a hoodie. Yeah. Kind of classy. That's a good question. Any other questions for Brent or anyone else? Pyramids. Pyramids. Pyramids. Pyramids. Games. How can I get in and he's going to have the investment in this overall business? FHF's brand new FOB, Bino Harness is a fully enclosed forward operating Bino harness that serves as a secure location for your binoculars and other critical gear during your outdoor pursuits. The Bino harness is a feature rich American made product with magnetic closures, laser cut molly attachment panels and more. What's more is it comes with our new airframe shoulder harness and wind call pouch. Get ahead of your season planning and check out the industry's best Bino harness for real. This is the industry's best Bino harness only at FHF gear.com. So I had a lot of interest in the Mule Trainer that banjos out. I had a lot of people writing in from multiple, well, from more than one state trying to get hooked up with my Mule Trainer. What do you think I told him? None of your business. No, I gave him his number. But only after I was really convinced the guy was serious. Do you get a referral commission? I wish. I wish. Maybe. We'll see, I guess. No, banjos got a couple more weeks at the trainer. Have you been over there? Well, I mean, I just took him over there. You ain't been back. No, no, it's a pretty good trip over there. Banjo is the one you thought was going to kill you. Yeah. Yeah. Hence the need for the trainer. Yeah. Yeah. But when I brought up banjo, I had a guy say what happened to Hoot? So Hoot was the dog, was the young plot hound that I had that I was training that I hunted the fair bit last fall. Brent and Hunter and some, Michael Hunter with her a little bit. And somebody said, we heard about banjo. What happened to Hoot? And I think this is a great time to tell the world that like Crockett brought in to help usher into American identity that you get what you get by merit. Hoot didn't make a hole. Now Hoot's alive. Yeah. It's like we didn't swing it. We didn't like take it around. That was a pregnant Paul. No, I felt like I gave Hoot a good chance. I left her with a guy that hunted off man. Used to, I would have never done this. But I've traveled in and I had a guy hunter for me for about 45 days. And he hunted her probably 12 to 15 times up here in the mountains. I centered down with Brent. How long did y'all have her? Michael and Brent. About a month? About a month. About a month. Yeah. You only hunted her like three times. Yeah, but no. You said how long do we have her? We had it a little over a month. Okay. But y'all didn't hunter that much. No, no, because of water and we were flooded. We were flooded. So it was going on. And then I hunted her quite a bit and she just never, she didn't hunt hard enough for me. She was almost two years old and just wasn't making it happen. And so I considered buying a dog from Michael. But, and it was a good one. You still have a rocker? Yeah. He's right at the sky. No. He's not for sale? No, not unless you want him. I told you. Have you hunted a rocker? Yeah. Yeah, he's been hunting. Rocker was a walker. So if it gets out that I was hunting a walker, my, my, my, my, your career is over. Because you got to, you got to do the plot hounds, right? I mean, I don't have to. It's just, I'm going to give you a piece of advice, same piece of advice that I gave Brent about dogs. I get a dog that I like every. Between six to eight years. This is so sad. Six to eight. But every six to eight years, I find one to replace what I'm currently hunting. So in the meantime, we try a lot of puppies, a lot of young dogs, and we go through them and they get home somewhere else because they're just not going to make for what I want, just like what happened with you with who. But my piece of advice is go buy one. Just doing what it's doing because I told you seven to eight years, I asked Brent, I said, Brent, how old are you? Brent, it's seven. I said, man, you only got two or three dogs left. And a lot of aggravation. He said, he said, I had never thought of it. He said, I wish you wouldn't even call me. But it's true. You don't have that many dogs left. Yeah. I mean, I got a few more. I mean, you love you more one or two. True story. But when you start counting in fives and tens, it goes by pretty quick. Yeah. It makes sense to invest in a good start. Well, okay. Now, here's what you got to talk me down from. And I'm open to people from outside the Coon hunting community chime in, Ben and Jonathan, which both of you all have Coon hunting with me. Yeah. You've got Coon hunting with me, hadn't you been? Yes. Long time ago. And technically, I was a Coon dog owner as a child. Yeah, black and tan. It didn't work out as a whole and other long story. So here's my problem is that I, I, it's hard for me to, to take a dog from somebody else that I just bought. I understand. I mean, because it's almost, and now I'll make a case against it and then I'll probably go and maybe do it. But it's almost like, so feel like cheating? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you didn't, you didn't raise the dog, you didn't train it. And it's just. Find that right one. Yeah. And I didn't carry any of the cages where you're at. Yep. I used to, if I didn't raise it, I didn't want it. I went through a phase where if it wasn't out of my dogs that I owned that I didn't carry anything about it. How about it. And I'm to the point now that if it'll do what I wanted to do, I don't have but four or five left. Mm hmm. So I need to get what I can get. Yeah. How many in your experience, Michael, how many, what's like the percentage of like good Coon dogs that you try out that actually work out? Is it like 10% or less or 50% or less actually turned out to be good? Well, and he's not trying out just average run of the mill dog. Sure. I mean, Michael is like a very, very serious Coon dog. Now there's a difference in a dog that'll run in tree a coon and a coon dog. Okay. That's the first. So as far as dogs that will tree coons, maybe, I mean, just you can turn it loose, hunt it enough, it'll tree a coon, maybe 50%. Okay. So I'm looking for 1% 1%. Yeah. Here's the difference because what he ain't saying that I know to be a fact is he's got a dog right now and any dog that he's ever had that I've hunted with. When that when he says that's dog is started and going good and you know, maybe not finished yet, but a dog that he can turn loose and it will leave there in a cloud of dust and trail and tree a coon in 10 minutes. When we get to the tree, look at the coon, he turns him loose to go tree another one. He looks at me and says he should have done that in eight minutes. I am a little picky. He ain't little picky. He's a lot. Clay, would you have that same level of pickiness? Because if he's saying, if he's saying 1%, you got to go through a hundred dogs. Yeah. I mean, Michael and I would be a different. I mean, I'm just not a serious. I mean, Michael's business and his life has been dedicated to Coon honey. I am a recreational coon hunter. I love a good dog and I appreciate a good dog when I'm with one and I feel like I've owned one good dog. I would be happy with less than what Michael would probably. But I have been trying so my dog firm died in December. She was eight years old, died a little prematurely. I think I probably had a couple more winners with her and she died a little prematurely and I've been trying to replace her with dogs from the line that she was out of for about five years and couldn't quite make it happen. Though Michael, I may have made him. It wasn't a mistake. It wasn't a mistake. But I gave straight sedillo out in New Mexico a dog that I had started on Coon that was doing good. And I just kind of thought she, we hunted with straight out there and I just thought she would do good for him and I was feeling generous and I wanted to see how one of my dogs would do on lions out there in the West. And so I told straight if he'd drive dark and saw and get her, I'd give him to him. I think she was 11 months old. So he literally drove straight from New Mexico here, got the dog turned around, drove straight back and is hunting OP to this day. They're doing good. Yeah. He says she's a real line dog. She probably would have been a dog that I've been happy with if I'd have kept her and hunted during whatnot. But I've been through at least four or five dogs that didn't work out. Right. But even rocker, you liked rocker. It'd be good. The first night we cut him loose, he treated three, just bam, bam, bam. I looked at clay and I said, no, look, he is not this good. That's what I told him. I said, I know he looks like it, but I'm telling you he is not this good. And he showed more kind of, he messed up in the next few nights, but he is a really nice dog. And he's still not what I would hunt, even at that. Yeah. Well, I'm in the market for a dog. I just got to have a dog by this winter. And I do have a coon dog. I got Jed right back out there. And Jed on a good night would go trickoon for us, but he's not a coon dog. He was sure a coon dog when he was with Fern though. Yeah. A lot of them are like that. Yeah. That's called a B2 dog. Yeah. Yeah. So, all right, David Crockett, Jonathan, what, so we know where you started. Where we sold us. There were four and after. What most stood out to you in this episode one and man, hey, there are three more episodes. Yeah. I'll go ahead and tell you, we've never done a four part series on anybody. We've always done, we've done, we've been successful at running these three part series. This one's going to be four. Are you going to pace it after what Robert Morgan said, the bear hunter, the politician? Are you going to pace out? You nailed it. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Man, him as a bear hunter was pretty impressive. Like I kind of get why people back east would have been impressed just hearing that segment that you read from his autobiography. I mean, not only did the man survive like three instances in like a weekend that would have been like life defining for me. But he did, even though various clips that you said, he just had a way of talking that I don't know. When you read these things, it's kind of easy to think that everybody back in that time would have talked that way, thought that way. But I think what you're keying in on and one of the reasons he was such an archetype was that maybe not everybody was talking that way, not everybody was describing themselves that way, acting that way. But man, what you described of him as a bear hunter was pretty impressive. Yeah. I do have a question about his bear hunting. So you read that section and he said he killed 105 bears in a year. Is that what? What do you guys think about that from like a conservation standpoint? Now, obviously it's totally different 200 years ago, but would that have been excessive do you think for 200 years ago? Those guys are the reason we have game laws today. I mean, the market hunting era of the US was a wanton, a wanton waste of wildlife. I mean, that's probably the wrong way to describe it. It was an excessive unsustainable use of wildlife. Right. And so the pendulum swung. The pendulum when those guys first got here was that this is an unexhaustible resource that will never go away. So we can do whatever we want, no rules and regulations. They were market hunting these bears. Crockett was making money. He was incentivized financially to go and kill as many bears as he could, along with thousands of other people. Yeah. And honestly, Crockett killed 105 bears in a year. Really wasn't that big a deal. I mean, there are people in the country today who have dogs that they don't kill that many, but they tree way more than that sometimes in a year, like groups of people. Like traveling to different states. So absolutely. But the way I like to think about it is that the wanton disregard of the sustainability of the thing produced the most robust wildlife management system in the history of mankind. So absolutely fascinating. Fascinating man. Yeah. And it's those stories about Boone and Crockett that have fueled, and I'm going to call it sport hunting, even though I don't like that term, those stories, those guys, those archetypes, those icons have fueled the American sport hunting culture because we all want to be like those guys. I mean, we do. I mean, like I just love hearing these stories about Crockett and, you know, we go out and kill a couple of bears a year maybe. And it's like incredible. Tapping into that. We eat the meat and render the fat. And these guys were killing hundreds a year and it's just wild. Yeah. Do you like bear meat better than deer meat? Absolutely. Me too. I do not, but I do like it, but I don't like it. You have never, if you, I fed bear meat last night to a family that's not from here and not introduced it all to wild game. And every one of the kids ate it and loved it. Bear meat doesn't have a wild taste. You can screw it up and I don't know how people do. They probably leave a bear in their child for a long time. What I didn't have a wild taste at all. Well, what was wrong with it? I just liked the texture and the taste of deer meat better. Really? But I've ate deer meat all my life. Yeah. I didn't have something to do with it, but I was wondering, you know, so they, they seem to like bear meat better than deer meat. Do you think they liked bear hunting better than deer hunting because of the dogs? I mean, it's just like today. I mean, there'd be people that, that, I mean, they were market hunting for deer as well and making big money off of selling the skins. I'm sure it would be, there would be people that didn't like bear hunting with hounds back then because of the work and taking care of the dog. All the same reasons that somebody might like, not like hound hunting today, just for the technicalities of the sport. They might like deer hunting better. I think so. I mean, Crockett, there were, it, it's known who loved the bear hunting with hounds because usually that was the thing they were most excited about and Crockett clearly was. Even though there's lots of, lots of stories of Crockett killing big bucks. Crockett, Crockett, once in a, once in his autobiography. He tells that at his house, he has on one side of the room, the rack of a giant buck and on the other side, the paws of a bear in his house. Yeah. I mean, so he was a big deer. I wonder how commonplace that was back then of keeping antlers as trophies and stuff like that. Yeah. It certainly wasn't as common as it is today. I mean, like pretty much any buck we kill today, keeping the horns. I think those guys kept horns if they were in a place where they could get them back to their house easily or a spectacular set of horns. Right. Like Gerstalker, when he was in Arkansas, would have killed an incredible amount of deer in seven years. And one time, once or twice in his book, he talked about the size of a buck. Now he didn't have the Boone and Crockett measurement. He didn't have a way to say it was 150 inch buck or as times were long or like they, the way they described deer was just very rudimentary, a giant stag. You know, now we have these technical ways that we describe antlers. But I'm amazed though too, even today, like Louis Dell and Charlie, we did this genuine outlaw series on Louis Dell and Charlie. Both these guys are passed away. These guys from Arkansas, I asked Stoney, their sons, I said, do you have any of the horns from the bucks your dad and uncles killed? And he looked at me and was just like, no. And I said, really? And he said, well, there's one they had mounted. And I said, what about all the other deer? And he said, oh, they gave horns away. He said the last last couple of years, his dad killed or his uncle killed a big bucket, deer camp, I mean, a big bucket, deer camp. And he said, we scanned it out and dad gave the horns to one of the boys. I think they just didn't care. You have these deer appear on your wall. Why do you have them? I mean, in your thought process, what do you keep antlers for? I mean, I would, I'm a product of the modern white tail hunting world. I mean, to me, a white tail antler is an thing of extreme beauty. And it's like a unique art form of nature that is, each one is unique. There's not another one like it. I think they, the size of a buck represents oftentimes the maturity of that animal and the difficulty to kill that animal. But I think it's art, man. They're just memories for me. Now, we're human beings are, there were memory collectors that after this moment, all we had of the previous moment was memories. And those are memory reminders. Yeah. That's what they are for me. I can look up there and I can say, I remember that day. I remember what happened. I remember other than that, they don't hold a place for me, but, but they are memory reminders or what. Let me ask you this, Mr. Coon Hunter. If you got a mounted coon in your house, I do and it was bought at Bass Pro. What do you mean? You couldn't buy a real coon mounted. I don't care anything about a coon. I could never, I could treat possums. I don't care. It's all about the dog. Wait a minute. Did you see my coon? Stop. Tree possums. I don't care is what he said. Yeah. If there were no coons. You said that dog, I could have a tree possum. Tree deposit. Tree deposit. Look up above your head. You see that coon? Yeah. That coon. Okay. When I killed that coon, I've got a mounted coon right up there, Michael. When I killed that coon, I, we had been hunting hard for five years and shooting every coon that we trade. And when we killed it, I told my son, I said, that is the biggest coon I have seen in this five year block, like without a doubt. I'd only remembered one that I felt like was bigger that we killed 10 years ago when I was hunting with another guy. I went to my neighbor's certified scale. He has a certified livestock scale. And again, this coon was so big that I was like, boys, 100%, this is the biggest coon we have killed in five years. What do you think that coon weighed? I don't know. I mean, you don't even need to see it. Just like it's a mountain coon. Yeah. 20 pounds. Okay. Biggest coon in five years. 14. 14. Yes. That's the one. That's it. That's him. Oh, man. Yeah, I would say like around 15. Yeah, 15, 15, 22, 80, Bob. $1. I thought you were going to speak French. That coon weighed 18 and a half pounds. Okay. 18 and a half pounds. Wow. And most of them are way in, you know, in the 12, 12 bigger one, 14, 15. I don't think it big. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The biggest one I ever killed was the second coon we ever killed. He was 30 pounds. Wow. In Arkansas. But that's in the delta. Yeah. And that's huge for down there too. I mean, a 10, 15 pound coon, a great big coon down there. He was just abnormally large. It was second coon we ever treat. I'll be done. Hey, maybe this is, I don't know, it's been a long time since I thought about Opie. You know what dog struck that coon. Opie. Opie did. She sure did. That was the first time I thought she might have some potential because I turned her out by herself and she went up in this holla and struck a coon and she was working it. And I could tell she couldn't quite figure it out. So I turned Fern loose right behind her or, you know, like 10 minutes later and they went in there and treated it. So she, she was young though, but they treat that coon. Yeah. Another question about coming back to David Crockett. Yes. Do you think he was an exceptional bear hunter or do you think that it was like, do you think that he was a bear hunter, just like other bear hunters would have been at that time? And there was something about his personality that made him really stand out. Like his self promotion or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I think he was, I think he was a top end bear hunter. Okay. Like I don't think there were many guys that were better than him. I don't think he would have been like the best in the country at that time. I mean, he, he was good. He was just known. Huh. You know, he was just known. Something about that story where he said his friend when he went to go get him back and he said that he wouldn't have chased that bear in there. I didn't know if he, that meant he was just taking more risks and just kind of, just kind of a wild man or. Yeah. That was a good catch because it was hard to catch what he was saying. But yeah, he was saying, man, I wouldn't even gone after what that bear like you did. I'm not, I think he was really good. But I think there were other guys that were just as good that you just didn't hear about. So the way he was bear hunting with dogs though, I mean, how good a bear hunter he was most voted, depending on how good his dogs were to. I mean, they were tree and coons. He wasn't still hunting them. He may have still seen those guys though back then without GPS callers, it was an athletic event. Oh, yeah. So stay with the dogs and be with them and be within here in distance, go into these dogs late at night, spending the night out in the wood. I mean, it was like a trying to try. Athlon, trying to kneecap a bear when you get right next to him. And that was a pretty good descriptor in the dark feeling of being bathed by me. My uncle was listening to it again on the way up here today. And I said, well, when he was talking about, he, he fell down and started his behind. I said, well, he started on the right. Anyway, yeah. Now, obviously he was in the earthquake area. What was he calling the hurricane? Oh, that is a good question. And I don't have a great answer. I had a guy text me today and said, what is a hurricane? I'm going to assume it was tornado damage. That's what I said. Really? Yeah. I think, yeah, do you have any more? I mean, no, no, I just assume that obviously there wasn't a hurricane in Tennessee. Yeah. And I don't know what they called them back then, but it would have probably been tornado damage, which would have been great for bear because it would have been exposed to the sun. It would have had berries. It would have had. Yep. That's exactly what I said because just think about the eastern deciduous forest being just this one big blanket, pretty much of a big forest. And like, I know for a fact, the hurricane creek drainage that's within about, that's in Ozarks, one of them that Gerstarker talked about, he said that they called it the hurricane because of a hurricane that came through and went through the valley. Wow. And they called them hurricanes. It was a tornado. And then that would create essentially like a clear cut. Right. It would knock all the trees down, then the underbrush would start to grow up, secondary trees, grapevines, berries, blackberries. It's just a big ticket. And so if you're in a ancient primeval forest that's never been cut before, that would be like big hardwood and pine timber, like over in that country would be a little different. But basically big hardwood forest, which would have expansive canopy and not a lot of understory, which would not be that great for wildlife, where there was disturbance like a tornado would be incredible for wildlife. So that's where they went. Yeah. Wow. That's a great, that's a good question. FHF's brand new FOB Binoharnus is a fully enclosed forward operating binoharnus that serves as a secure location for your binoculars and other critical gear during your outdoor pursuits. This harness is a feature rich American made product with magnetic closures, laser cut molly attachment panels and more. What's more is it comes with our new airframe shoulder harness and wind call pouch. Get ahead of your season planning and check out the industry's best binoharnus for real. This is the industry's best binoharnus only at FHF gear.com. Ben what stood out to you off the top of your. A couple things. We're still wearing our koon skin hats. It's comfy. I like it. A couple things. Number one, when you're talking about memories, I was immediately transported to one of the oldest things I kept from childhood, which was my koon skin cat that I got at Disney World. Oh really? Five years old. Oh wow. That would have been what you were able to think of. Frontier land. I've been a five years old so early nineties. Yungster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that trip, I don't remember a ton about that trip except for it's a small world because if it's possessive power over the human mind. Being terrified of the haunted mansion. Oh man. And getting that koon skin cat. And I remember my dad buying it and handing it to me to be like, that's a Davy Crockett hat. And as a youngster being like, crowned with this superpower, but I didn't know much about him. Right. And so one of my, one of the things I've been pondering about since yesterday I listened to it was like I understand why he was significant in a celebrity status back then and just knowing the context and the lack of media and like in 1800s and yeah, yeah, yeah, like if you get published with anything, I mean, that is like, right, the internet for people. It wasn't like everybody had a whole lot to choose from. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you know, bear hunting is, is an exciting, those are exciting stories because of some of the danger involved and stuff. But anyway, the question of my mind is like, why do we, why is he impressed himself so much on us? And I, my conclusion is that it's because he was introducing our childhood and right anything introducing your childhood imprints on you differently than an as an adult. Like if somebody came to me now and told me about the same guy that I never heard of, it's going to be, oh, that's cool. One example is like sports. You know, I, I, um, when you follow sports guys now as an adult, you're like, yeah, they're, they're really good. It's cool. You're excited, especially if they're on the team that you like. But the sports guys, I follow when I was a kid. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like Troy Aikman, Emmett Smith, I was a big cowboys fan. I saw those guys in person. I mean, it was like, I remember riding a letter to Emmett Smith. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I, and I found it later, unmailed by my parents. But, uh, yeah, that's one on the coon hat minus one. I got behind him on the JFK, what goes around Dallas, the interstate part. Really? And, and it was, I remember the license place. It catch 22. I thought, well, that's kind of weird. As we drove, I was riding my brother. I was driving by and he was a Mercedes and his wind has rolled down and there was Emmett Smith. I thought, oh, 22. Yeah. It was his football. Wow. That's crazy. I should, I should have asked him, man, did you ever get the letter? Come on, man. Yeah. It's a funny letter because back as a kid, I thought when you really like something, you always used the word love. So the whole letters me saying, I love you, man. I love you so much. I love you. I love you. Now, now no white parents didn't smile. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, but anyway, that was what I was thinking about. I was like, because I was introduced to this figure as a young kid, it's like such a bit. Well, that's who Disney targeted in the 1950s. Yeah. They didn't target the dads. They targeted the kids and sold them a bunch of stuff. Brilliant. Like we, we, America came back from World War II and had all this ability to produce trinkets and people had extra money and there was all this manufacturing and plastic and all this stuff. And it, it created this merchandising frenzy over Crockett, which imprinted the nation. And then we inherited it. You know, I'm 10 years old or new or something Ben. And we, we kind of inherited Crockett. And I remember the Crockett song vividly. I mean, I could have told you all the high points of David Crockett and that he was like, a bad to the bone dude and a hunter, coonskin hat. Well, just liked him. Like when I see, when I see Fest Parker's picture wearing buckskins and carrying a long rifle, I just, I just like it. Like I just, I mean, I would have even pre researching him. It's just like ingrained in us. And that's, that's what's so interesting to me. It's like, why does my brother was the one who sang the, the Davie, Bowdah, Davie Crockett? Zach Nukem. Oh, it was Zach. Zach, Zach, it's not a big hunter. He did kill a nice buck last year, two years ago. But you know, like, why does Zach Nukem remember the Davie Crockett song? I mean, how many, how many songs from 19th, the 1950s, could he just sing with a, with a single cue of one word? Crockett. Go. Yeah. Probably not many. So it's like, how, why? It is kind of a mystery. It's your childhood. Yeah. It's where you're at, Davina Millenie, how you grab a hold of things. But I think it's more complex than that though. Be, I mean, that's definitely major component, but also think it's because there's something to grab on too, that goes back to this American identity of when we were first America. And I mean, even if you're patriotic, you're not patriotic, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying the fact that he was, he did something to the culture that was big. And what we're going to learn in episode two is that Crockett influenced a bunch of people. Crockett influenced Lincoln. Crockett influenced Mark Twain. Crockett influenced American culture. Like bam. And so when we hear him, it's like our blood. You know what I mean? And it just like, and obviously to some people more than others, I'm interested in rural America and hunting and something. You know, Crockett's going to mean something. It was really, you know, I didn't see, it was reruns when I was, I was born in 66. So when did that Walt Disney stuff? 55. Yeah. Okay. So it was, it were reruns that when Walt, wide world of Disney or whatever it was, it came on Sunday evenings and we was always wanting, oh man, I hope it's Davy Crockett, I hope it's Daniel. You mean you couldn't fast forward and record? No, believe it or not. You actually had to be there. Yeah, to be there on NBC on Channel 4. But when, when that would come on, it was immediately we, we were engaged in it because he was doing stuff that we knew about. You know, we could watch Escape From Which Mountain or all the other stories and movies that, you know, Herpy and Dr. the professor, the nutty professor or whatever and he's making tennis shoes that you can jump over and shoot a basket. We don't know what we're talking about. Getting shoot a basketball, all of these Disney movies that were just so far-fetched from anything that I'd ever seen before. But somebody walking out of the house with a rifle in their hand and dragging a deer back. Yeah. Oh yeah. Not only do I know that, I've done that or I watched my dad do it or. Yeah. And I've done it immediately that you could, you could grab on through that, you know, this, he's like us. Yeah. And we're like him. Like a reality show. Yeah, for real. I mean, it was just like, he's family Uncle Charles there, you know, or something. So what was your favorite part? What stood out to you, Brent? In this part, or in this, this edition, I guess, episode, the part where no one, I didn't know he'd, that he wrote his own book. I didn't know that. Right. And I've, I've actually ordered it from Amazon and I'll be, yep, that's the one. And I'm. Titled David Crockett, not Davey. Yeah. Yeah. David Crockett. So I'm anxious to read that. And out of all the stuff, you know, I've been familiar with him my whole life since I was six or seven, you know, and remember that kind of stuff. And I'm, I'm today, years old, actually Wednesday when that came out that I learned that he wrote his own autobiography. Yeah. So I'm, I'm looking forward to it. Michael, I'm going to be coming back to you in just a second to ask you what was your favorite part or what you learned? I think, I think the Crockett autobiography in a way did him disservice. And I think you'll see it if you read it. When I first read it, don't spoil it. Yeah, I will. I will tank, I will put my thoughts on top of you, but that's kind of what we do on this podcast. You can. You want to step out. Step out. I try to dodge anything he puts towards me anyway. No Crockett. This was a political rebuttal. This was a political rebuttal. He was, he was being, and we're going to learn all this in episode three about his political career, but basically they thought he was the only guy that could beat Andrew Jackson. And so this, this group, this political group, the Whigs, we're trying to, we're courting him to, for presidential run, which is wild. Like it would be almost equivalent to like a Donald Trump Ryan for president. It's just this, this like wild. So far out of the system. Yeah. Yeah. Even though he was in politics, but it was just like this, like wow, really? Yeah. And those two were enemies also. Jackson. Jackson. And for sure. Yeah. And each other from way back. Yep. Yep. And so this book is not, if I was his editor, I would have been like, hey dude, we got to cut all the, the last fortune. You know, you would have, about half of it's really about his life. And the other half is kind of political retribution in a way kind of talking about. And so he, he, it's, it's, in some ways it's incredible that we have this book because we actually get to hear the voice of Crockett through his words, which we didn't have for Boone. Did I talk about that? Yeah. This episode. Yeah. So that was one of the things that was kind of mysterious about Boone is we never heard his actual voice. There was a chapter that was supposedly written by him in his voice in Filson's book, but it wasn't Boone at all. Like Filson wrote it in, in Boone's voice. Yeah. Because his son said that wasn't the words of his father. Yeah. That's right. And this is Faucio, the words of David Crockett. And so like when he tells Bear hunting stories, when he talks about his childhood and he talks, he does talk a lot about a very personal stuff, which is incredible. But anyway, you kind of, I make a lot of excuses for Crockett, trying to prove that he's cool so that Steve Rinella will like him. Saying that if he'd had a good editor, he wouldn't have had this problem because the editor would have been like, Hey, you can't, you can't talk about yourself like that. And Crockett would have been like, no problem. I won't. So anyway, You all think I got to remember the time it was considered everything that was the time that it was in, you know, the way we think now about things is far different from what they think about stuff. Yeah. So I think he gets a pass on that. A lot of that. Yeah. Yeah. Because of the world he was in. You could see how he would eat at you too as a person in politics, not ever getting to feel like the whole truth is out on your side of it. And then you pass events that happened. You want to get your beef out. You know, it ain't like now when everything you ever have ever said can come out. I mean, that dude, what a very minute percentage of his thoughts and ideas were probably got out. Yeah. And I whip my weight and wild cats out of them. So, you know. Yeah. But him speaking about politics in that book was something that had to have driven him quite a bit there in the last part of his life because politics is what ended him up at the Alamo. I mean, losing those elections is why he'd still been in Tennessee or in Congress or something. So that's a huge part of his life that he wants to set the record straight on. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's hard. It's hard to blame him for it because they had written multiple fake autobiographies, which at the time there was nothing people could do. People would, I mean, there was no retribution and there was no way to know it was going to happen or they didn't even know who wrote him. Like it was just like David Crockett. I thought it was funny when the guy you talked to, I'm trying to remember his name. Scott Williams. Yeah. Our Scott Williams. He said he got interested in that name, image and likeness stuff. I thought, wow, that was the thing even back then. Yeah. So that's pretty cool. Well, and that was a, it's kind of splitting hairs a little bit because when we talked about Boone, we talked about how Boone was an American archetype and he was one of the first folk heroes of America. And Boone rose to global fame in his lifetime. Crockett did the same thing. But there's some hair splitting difference in what happened with him. Boone, and again, we said this on the podcast, but Boone didn't become famous till he was in his mid 50s. And all the stuff he did that made him famous, he did not knowing anyone would ever know about it. Right. And that's why Steve says that Boone should not even be on the same page as Crockett because that's cool. Like, I mean, you want your hero to be doing what he's doing, not because somebody's going to put him on Instagram. Right. Because somebody's going to write a book about it. No, is that somebody's going to say he's cool? Is that, is that Steven Ella's beef with Crockett that he was interacting with his own thing? No, Jack about Crockett. He's going to after you. Listen to this. Stay in your lane, bro. Yeah. No, no, that, that it was the celebrity status. Yes. He doesn't like it. Yes. And it's the same thing that I am working through with Crockett. Like I'm really trying to understand it because it. Boone didn't become famous until mid 50s and Boone did stuff to try to capitalize on that fame to some degree, but he was already, but, but he just wasn't in control of it as much. And Boone dies in impoverished man. If you remember, when Boone died, the last guy, the only real portrait that we have of Boone was painted of him when he was in his like late 70s, maybe even early 80s right before he died and a painter went from the Northeast down into Missouri. Like there was no way to like call and say, Mr. Boone, can I come next Thursday to your house to paint your picture and a painting session would take days or even weeks, you know, because they're literally having the guy set there and they're, they're painting him. And so this guy travels from the Northeast hoping that Boone is still alive and goes to Boone's neighbor who lived within a mile of him and says, do you know where this Mr. Boone is? And the guy was like, yeah, I don't even know who you're talking about. He goes, he's an old man and he looks like this and he was like, Oh, that guy? Yeah, he lives right down the road. I mean, no idea who he was. Yeah. And that was Daniel Boone Crockett. So, you know, I would say Boone was more of an archetype folk hero, not so much a celebrity. Crockett knew of his fame, interacted with his fame, tried to capitalize on his fame, which I don't blame him for. I mean, it's like that's what people do. And he, he did stuff like write books. And then what busted him for, for Renella is the line of the West play that was a Broadway play that was in Europe as well. I mean, this is like major. And this is major American stuff too, because this is one of the first major American theatrical productions that went global. And it's called line of the West. Key character is Nimrod Wildfire, who is 100% Davy Crockett. Crockett's alive. Crockett's like in his 30s. And everybody knows Nimrod Wildfire is Crockett. And in Crockett, they invite him to New York to go to the play. That's what gets Steve is he went. It goes, he went. He went. He went to the play. And when Nimrod Wildfire walked out onto the stage, Broadway production in New York, Nimrod Wildfire, the actor stops, takes off his coonskin hat and tips his hat to Crockett, who's sitting in the balcony. And what does our boy Crockett do? He stands up and waves to the crowd. Just like Rene Reeves would have done. Absolutely. So this is my question. If Steve had hunted his entire life, no one really knew who he was. Somebody heard a little something about him and he found out in New York there was a play about him. You think he wouldn't have went and seen it? I mean, I think that's right. Yeah. I'll ask him. Yeah. No, it's, it's, so in a sound bite, you would, you could say Crockett was like vain compared to, and we'll hear other stuff. But I'm telling you, I think I, I, I, I think it's apples and oranges. Sometimes. Yep. Yeah. I mean, there's a little overlap, but it was after, you know, that's what I was thinking. It was a huge difference between, I mean, when Daniel Boone was in his 30s and when David Crockett was in his 30s. And, and, and I'm not picking on Steve Rinella in this, in this segment, but what would Crockett have today if he were here? What would he do? I don't do the Instagram. He'd have a television show. TikTok. He'd be on Instagram. I mean, just like me. Yeah. You know, so it's like, just like yours. He'd have a, he'd have a hat like me and he'd be looking for a good dog. But he only had one Walker dog, Michael. Oh, that's it? Mm hmm. It would have treated 200. Yeah. Yeah. There it is. It was a short gully. No. Did you pick up on that in, in the, in the bear hunting story when they were in the, in the cracks? I didn't hear anything about a Walker dog. Well, and he didn't say Walker. See, you boys, you got a turn on your listening ears. He said that it was at night and he said there was one white dog that he could see. Oh. So that, I mean, if there was one white one, that means the rest of them were dark. Yeah. So that it had to have been a Walker, you know, some type of Walker dog. They like to bob their tails. Some kind of English fox hound. More than likely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it wouldn't have been a straight up Walker because it really probably wouldn't even hardly be made by then. Walkers? No. Well, I mean, they come mid 19th century. The actual tree. The straight up, yeah. Yeah. Actual tree in Walker, yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Crockett said, and we're going to learn about this on the next episode. I don't know why I'm telling you now, but they like to bob the tails of their bear dogs. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially hunting in the hurricane. Yeah. Yeah. Because the winners are going to whip it to pieces. Yeah. Yeah. It's really just aesthetics. Well, it gives it's a little less to grab a whole tube by a bear also. That's true. Yeah. But today you won't find hound'smen bobbin tails out west they do sometimes because their tails are hitting cactus and stuff. I've seen a lot of beagles with bob tails. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Because they beat them to death and the brothers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Michael, what stood out to you? I wanted to see him slide down that honey locus. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I wanted. That was more impressive than leaping the Ohio. Yeah. Yeah. He might make the Ohio. He's not going to make it down that honey locus without a scratch. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I enjoyed it. I don't guess what I've read there hadn't been a whole lot about the bear hunting stuff. Most of what you read covers his childhood and then on into that it you cause him a hunter but it doesn't really go into depth on the bear hunting stuff. I thought it was pretty neat about him being in those earthquake cracks. Yeah. That was pretty cool. Yeah. But you know he was just a guy doing what everyone else did. So I mean just like we always said about Boone he was just, he wouldn't have even known, I mean could you imagine going through your entire life thinking you were doing what everyone else was doing and look up and they had to play about you? Yeah. You know. Although he did, was the play before or after the politics? It was before wasn't it? No. Because the politics are what made him known. Okay. The play was in the 1830s and he got into politics in the early 1820s. So politics is what took him to the national stage. I mean it's the only reason he would have had even a voice for people to know who he was. And then he started, in his political speeches he started talking about hunting and we're going to get into it a lot more but basically on his first political speech he said he got up before the crowd and his opponent, they used to travel together with their opponents. And he said his opponent spoke and was this like diplomatic, you know just like political speech and Crockett had his political speech formed and he got up and he said he describes it really well. He said I felt like there was a cotton, there was cotton growing in my throat and I couldn't get a word out for him and he gave some funny anecdote and he said I was so choked up I thought I was going to cry and he said and all I know to do was start telling him a hunt. Basically I told him a hunting story and the people loved it. Like they thought the other guy was a dork and Crockett was like oh I see how this works and so he just got up in front of people and talked about hunting, made fun of his opposition, self-deprecating, stole their speech, stole their speech, really he was just fun. Yeah before the guy went on stage he gave his speech, gave the other guy a speech. Oh yeah yeah yeah oh we're going to get into all that later. Oh I did want to say one thing about you though, deciduous forest. Deciduous. Yeah never in the history of hillbilly has there ever been one say that. So every time you say it it takes your credibility down just a little bit. What do you mean? I mean they just don't say it, they just say the woods man. The hard woods, whatever you say deciduous on this podcast. Yes you did, yeah you did and when you said it I thought you did. Deciduous, one of my favorite words. Never in the history of hillbillydom has there ever been one say that. They have billydom. I just wanted to warn you. Well that's good to know. Good to know. I know you like hillbilly cred so. He's faking it. What do you say? I figured I said it wrong. Every time I do a podcast Mr. He's like Clay you said that totally. I started just skipping words that I don't know and just putting in new words. No this has been a fun series. We've got three more. Boom. That's good man. That's good. You did it too. I don't even know who this guy is. Yeah Wallace biography is really good. It's my favorite. Arscott Williams is really good too. He takes a little bit. His angle is a little more narrow which is unique in that he was really interested in Crockett's celebrity status. As Arscott Williams, super neat guy. Incredible guy. He is the lead man at the Discovery Park Museum in Union City, Tennessee which is an incredible place. Union City, Tennessee is a small town like 10,000 people and they have a world class natural history American museum in that town that there was some rich guy that lived in that town that had an enormous amount of money and he said I want to build a museum here. It's totally worth it if you're in that part of the world to go there by yourself or take your kids. They got a big Crockett section but Arscott Williams is a really cool guy so his book is good too. I know there's literally a saying about not judging a book by its cover but it's got a pretty cool cover on Crockett wearing a pair of cool shades. That's a fair Rayman. It's got a fair Rayman so it's like a pretty sporty. America's first celebrity. Hey I got a question here. Everybody in here that had a Koonskin cap growing up raise their hand. You didn't have one? That's a good question. There's five of us in here and only two of us did. I would have assumed you and Michael would have had one growing up. You were just trying to put me on the outside. I thought it was going to be a four to one for sure though. Yeah I did too. I may have had one. I don't want to lie and say I did. It wasn't prominent. Well you're the only grown up. I know that has any right now. But as a kid I was just wondering and it was because it was because well you just said it because it's when you went out. Ben you would have had probably a real tale but a fake talk. Precisely. What about yours Brent? Yeah it was wherever. I mean it came with a Flintlock rifle and a Flintlock pistol. I was in Missouri last year and I saw a double Koontell hat for the same price as a single Koontell. I'm serious. No rain. The gas station in central Missouri. Walk in there and there's a rack full of daniel boon. They market quite a bit with boon on the Koonskin hats these days. So interesting. Usually it's a daniel boon but there was a rack of daniel boon Koonskin caps in there. They're faux. Like they're faux fur on top but they actually are real Koontells because the Koontell and the actual fur market is not valuable. Like when they are making fur garments out of Koonhuds. But they don't use the tail. They just use the prime parts of the hide today. And so the tails they sell to make kids hats but they use faux fur. Anyway there was this hat and it had double Koontells coming off the side and it was like $12.99 and then I was like oh dude if that's $12.99 the single Koontells probably like $6.99 and it was $12.99 too. Wow. I would have been a really unique experiment to send a kid in there and say pick out which Koon skin hat. You want the one with the two tails or the one tail. Thank you guys for coming up here today. Really appreciate it. Good story. Looking forward to the next three episodes. Yeah. Life changing. It's going to be good. Going to be good. Maybe one day we'll sell these hats on themeteor.com. Why? Just get some more. Just get some more. Can't be about. I got a freezer full of Koonhuds out there. Can you make one a little bigger? Maybe for you. Special Native or adjustable. Alright guys. That's good. Awesome. Take care. FHF's brand new FOB Bino harness is a fully enclosed forward operating Bino harness that serves as a secure location for your binoculars and other critical gear during your outdoor pursuits. This harness is a feature rich American made product with magnetic closures, laser cut molly attachment panels and more. What's more is it comes with our new airframe shoulder harness and wind call pouch. Get ahead of your season planning and check out the industry's best Bino harness for real. This is the industry's best Bino harness only at FHF gear.com. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. I'm going to go.