90 Degrees | Episode #36 The Importance of 4th Quarter W% Over Expected, Betting Awards Markets & Super Bowl Favorites
On today's episode of 90 degrees, we take a look at how to approach betting certain
awards markets in the NFL, a metric that provides opportunities betting alternative markets,
and who's going to the Super Bowl?
That and more on today's episode of 90 degrees.
Welcome to the 90 degrees podcast where we take an inside look into the sports betting
industry.
I'm your host G. Stack George and I'm excited because we're talking my favorite sport
today.
NFL football.
And I've got a very special guest, Cleve TA, plus EV better, creator for the Hammer
betting network, and owner of Cleve Analytics.com.
Cleve, thanks for joining me.
Hey, George, how's it going?
I was excited when I finally saw that your preview had come out last week and I got to
dive into it.
It's always a fascinating read.
I always wonder, it's about 50 pages long.
How long does it take you from start to finish to get this thing together?
It took me a good month or so, and again, this isn't my full-time gig, so I've got a full-time
job.
I just welcome my second daughter to the world a couple months ago.
So it has been pretty hectic and had to work a lot of nights and weekends and my wife
was great.
Let me do that.
But I would have guessed it.
It took me over, you know, I would say 100 plus hours at least.
Is one of those things where you start working on each team and you get down a rabbit hole
and it takes you somewhere else to another team and then I find some information or some
stats or something interesting and then I start working on that team and it just, it kind
of goes in so many different directions, so it was hard to keep focused, but I really
enjoyed doing it and it was a labor of love, but something that I enjoyed putting together.
Even the reason I put it together, just for some background, is last year, I had no intention
of doing it.
I was asked by somebody I knew who works with a really prominent NFL analyst, broadcaster
and he was looking for a good NFL preview and asked me if I had heard of any at the time
and it was like early June and I said, no, he said, well, why don't you put one together?
I said, sure.
So I just kind of scrambled and put that together pretty quickly and I got a lot of great
feedback, released into the public and, you know, just everybody was asking me about
it and thought it was a good resource and so I decided I kind of had to do it again,
so that's kind of why I did it and at this point I think I'm kind of stuck doing it every
year now, but it does help me at least personally, you know, on top of letting other people
have that resource, you know, it's good for me personally and my personal betting.
Now you say it took over a month, do you have days where you literally can crank out
four or five good hours and knock out like six, seven teams and then days where you're like,
I don't even want to write anything.
Yeah, honestly, it was to the point where I mean, I could never do four or five, six teams
in a day.
It was literally one, maybe start a second per day and that's like working four or five
hours, you know, like I said, it took me to different directions and it just, it was
hard to really sit and just write one full team and get it all done pretty quickly.
It was just a lot that I wanted to put in there and, you know, you can see it's, unfortunately,
when you print it out, it's like the font is pretty small, it's a lot better when you
look online and on your computer and you can increase the size of the font.
I just needed, I had to cut stuff down like I would write and I realized, wow, I'm like
200 words over what can fit in here and so I would have to pair it down and so I got
rid of a bunch of stuff too, unfortunately, but I just kind of had, I think the, the beauty
of it that people really like is just having it in one page, it's not a, I wasn't looking
to write a 500 page, you know, encyclopedia, I think they just kind of gets way overdone,
it's just not necessary, you're just filling it with stuff.
So just having it all concise in one page, I think it was really important.
So that was really the reason for that and just, yeah, if I can get two in a day, I was
lucky.
Yeah, with those longer books, I found myself reading 40% of it just figuring, okay, this
is the tidbits that I find valuable, whereas yours was one sheet, one team, a lot, a lot
of an easier read, but you don't just cover teams, you also give like a league look perspective
from like a bigger picture.
One of the things I found interesting because we're anticipating a lot of first year rookie
quarterback starting this year, you found out some interesting data about what it looks
like with a first year starter.
Can you share a little with us?
Yeah, so I went back essentially 20 years of data and win totals and just, I just wanted
to know for myself because I didn't really put it in context until I went back and looked
at it.
And I said, you know, let's look at the teams with first round quarterbacks and then specifically
top five quarterbacks because all three of them this year are top five in the draft.
What did those teams do?
How did those quarterbacks perform?
And so quarterbacks that started at least half the teams gains as a rookie, there was 41
of them since 02 and aggregate those quarterbacks run just over 41% of their starts and less
than 50% went over their win totals.
So, you know, against market expectations those quarterbacks typically go under, although
when you look at the top five quarterbacks, 55% of those teams actually went over.
So you get kind of the really bad teams and drags of the NFL.
A lot of times those quarterbacks can push those teams over the win totals.
I will say since 2014 though, only four of 11 top five quarterbacks have gone over and
we've seen guys like Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson recently really struggle as rookies.
So it's a mixed bag.
But I mean, I wouldn't expect a lot of great success early on.
I was actually stunned to see this one.
I mean, two in 2020 is the only top five quarterback to win more than 50% of his starts
since Andrew Luck and RG3 did it in 2012.
So it's essentially been once in the last 10 years that we've seen a top five quarterback
on a team and they won more than half their start.
So in general, it's not likely that you're going to see a huge win total in their first year.
You know, we have seen, I think of all the types of quarterbacks when you profile.
Who's been the most successful amongst the rookies?
It's really been the mobile quarterbacks.
It's really been the guys who have able to use their legs as kind of giving them an increased
floor from an EPA perspective.
You look at the top three quarterbacks just in general, not even first round in EPA since 2002
were essentially all mobile quarterbacks, DAC, Russ Wilson, RG3.
So that bodes well really a lot for a guy like Anthony Richardson.
Not sure about CJ Stroud or Bryce Young just from that perspective, but it's usually
the guys that can run who can make plays as your legs, they're the ones who can add value
right away because even if they're not good in the pocket and the first reads,
not there, they can always just take off with their legs.
And I think that's something that definitely mobile quarterbacks have really helped increase
some of the returns from these first year guys early on.
But it's like I said, it's a mixed bag.
I mean, we look at Carolina.
They're a win total at seven.
It's the highest for any first round or sorry, top five quarterback drafted in terms
of a win total since the Jets and Mark Sanchez in 2009.
So their expectations are pretty inflated compared to a typical top five team with a quarterback
would look like.
I will say obviously they traded up.
So it's a little bit of a unique situation, but it's still one that people are very high
on Carolina and Bryce Young and it's definitely reflected in the win total.
I did just a quick Twitter poll today just for fun because I had mentioned that in the
last 14 years or so, there's been at least one team with a win total where they're expected
to be under 500 and they've made the playoffs and I said, well, which one of these teams
this year is it going to be?
And almost everybody picked Carolina.
It was pretty stunning to see the intrigue and the interest in a team like Carolina with
Bryce Young.
It just kind of shows you how people just automatically assume that the number one picks
are going to exceed expectations and it's not always the case.
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Sure.
And I've got a lot of thoughts of that division where they're very fortunate for who
they're playing not only within the division, but also getting to play the weakest division
on the AFC side, the other, the other South division.
So it sounds like it's a bit of a mixed bag.
You don't read too much into it, but the markets tend to, you know, at least be optimistic
about these first year quarterbacks.
You had a couple surprise teams in the AFC and the NFC on teams that you think are going
to exceed expectations.
Let's start off in the AFC.
Who's the team that you're backing way ahead of market?
Yeah.
Well, still there's two different ways to look at this.
I mean, I think if you're just looking for kind of super bowl level team that's maybe
not expected to make the playoffs, I would say the Browns, just from that perspective,
they're 22 to 1 to win the AFC and, you know, that's a team that's got, you know, elite
quality players all over the field, added a bunch in the offseason, obviously, that
Sean wants some question.
But so there are a team that if you're just looking for a non-playoff team, you know,
expected to make the playoffs to win the Super Bowl, that would be my top of the list
in the AFC.
But in general, just above market, I'm really in on the Colts this year.
And it's funny because that was not one, that was not a team that I expected to like
going into this preview, but the more work I did on them, you know, just evaluating
again the background on, you know, the types of teams that are types of quarterbacks that
do well, they're rookie year, like I talked about mobile quarterbacks, the head coaches
that do well in their first seasons, all those sorts of things, and just kind of what
happened last year to the Colts that, you know, kind of it wasn't needed to put in context
in order to better understand what this year could be like, I just like them more and
more.
And it's also a combination of that plus fading a Jags team, which I think is a little
bit overrated.
You know, I think that they've got a ton of issues, especially on the offensive line.
You know, not only you're going to lose Johan Taylor, it came to City, you're right tackle,
your left tackle is Cam Robinson, who's going to miss the first four games.
You know, their secondary is a mess.
They played the easiest set of opposing pass offenses last year.
So all those things, I think that you'll see a little bit of regression from Jacksonville
and just the rest of the vision is great.
But in terms of the Colts themselves, you know, mentioned, even if Anthony Richardson does
not show the upside that, you know, he's got kind of under his umbrella, it's one of those
things where at minimum, you'll start Gardner Minchue, who's won games in this league.
He knows the Shane Steak in offense.
You'll have a guy like Richardson in on short yardage situations.
You know, he could be pretty deadly with him and Jonathan Taylor in the RPO game.
I think he's going to be at worse, a guy that you have a package of plays for in the first
half of the season.
But then the upside is, you know, he's just all these physical traits that made him, you
know, the best quarterback who's ever performed at the combine, you know, they've got that upside
there.
Otherwise, I think you look, you know, they still have pieces, you know, got Jonathan Taylor,
you got, you know, pieces of a good offensive line.
The receiving court is okay.
You got Michael Pittman, you added Isaiah McKenzie, a receiver that I really liked in the
draft, Josh Downes, I did North Carolina, who's got some explosiveness.
And then defensively, they were a top 15-ish defense last year.
And that was without their best player, Shaq Lenner, their linebacker.
He was gone for all but three games.
He was hurt.
And so, you know, you look, they beat the chiefs last year.
They had the eagles on the ropes, the Philly scored at the end to win that game.
So they did perform pretty good against good teams.
It was a matter of, I mean, Matt Ryan was just a walking turnover.
I mean, they led the NFL with amount of EPA lost by turnovers on offense.
Five picks, sixes or fumble recoveries for touchdowns, led the NFL.
It was just a complete mess and you add the fact that the Jeff Saturday situation, and
I just don't know anyone who, that situation is just not going to happen again.
So you bring a guy and Shane Stuykin into the fold, comes in for obviously from a good
pedigree with the Philadelphia background.
He's going to bring, you know, plus EV situational decision making when it comes to four
downs and two point conversions, you know, it's going to pass on, pass ahead, you know,
to get ahead early in games and then run the ball, hopefully, to paddle lead.
Like he knows those things, you know, inside and out from, from his days in Philly.
So I think all of that combined, I just think that this is a team that has the ingredients
to win, you know, eight, nine games and that can win this division.
So for me, it's, you know, they'd have no shot at a wild card, but it would be, you know,
to win the division.
And so for me, like, I think the Colts have as much upside as any kind of bad team there
is in the NFL.
All right.
I see all those points, the one in the NFC is one that I am in lockstep on because I
think I've been tweeting about them for months and I like everything about their situation.
Who's your surprise team in the NFC that you're higher on than market?
I like the Packers and I think they're kind of a darling of a lot of the sharper community
and it's, again, it's, it's kind of betting on that tail, the tail outcomes for Jordan
Love.
And it's really, look, I mean, Aaron Rodgers was kind of a shell of himself last year.
He's 21st in EPA.
He wasn't great.
He wasn't pushing the ball down the field.
And, you know, they still won enough games to compete for the playoffs and we're just
under 500.
And so you're essentially, if you can get a repeat performance of that, if you're, Jordan
Love can, you know, get into the, you know, if he's the 20th best quarterback, you know,
they're probably going to win nine games, eight, nine games that face a much easier schedule
this year.
They actually face, again, this is all, we know that year to year things change dramatically.
But just, you know, just because it's interesting to look at, looking at EPA from last year,
they will face the, he will face the easiest schedule of opposing past defenses.
So, you know, he does get the benefit of facing the Bears toys and the Falcons and a bunch
of other teams that, you know, shouldn't be great from a, from a past defense perspective.
So hopefully that helps.
He gets a full off season with Matt LaFlor.
You know, they're going to install, you know, often specifically for him.
He's got the pedigrees.
He's got the first round pick.
This isn't a guy, you know, we'll talk about Atlanta.
This isn't Desmond Ritter.
It was a third round pick and was passed up by a bunch of teams.
Like he was still a first round pick.
He's got, he only has a handful of dropbacks in his career, really has one start and that
was on a short week when Aaron Rodgers at COVID in Kansas City.
He didn't look good.
Okay.
So, there is a chance he's awful, right?
But, you know, there's also a chance that he's just respectable.
And I think that would be good enough in this NFC with a great, you know, great running
game.
He's got a chance of line and we know a top 10 pass defense.
All they have to do is shore up the run defense, which was, you know, bottom five the last
two years.
And I think they're good enough to, at least, you know, get to 10 wins and win this division.
So, and you never know what happened.
And if he's like, let's say he's actually better than we all think.
He's the 10th best or the 12th best quarterback.
Then you've got a team that's really live to win the NFC.
So, I'm with you.
I've got plus 500 to win the North.
And, you know, I think there is definitely versions of love and the packers that can get
them to an NFC championship game.
Yeah.
There's a bunch of markets around the packers that I've been interested in.
One of them will talk about in a bit.
When you talk about markets, you break down like what historically goes into winning the
awards, which I found really a very, you know, a good tidbit for people to have.
When you were learning about the MVP market, what were like some of the prerequisites of
like past winners and what it takes to win the MVP?
Yeah.
And I've, you know, I've tweeted about this for the last handful of years about, you
know, it's, you know, and a lot of people have jumped on board.
But, you know, a lot of these awards are pretty robotic when it comes to historical profiles
of the types of players that can win.
And you know, it's, at this point with MVP, it's definitely going to be a quarterback.
It's just, that's 15 to the last 16 MVP's that have been quarterbacks, 10 straight.
I mean, Adrian Peterson's the last one, it was a non-cord back in a, you know, passing
league.
It's just, it's impossible really to even make a claim otherwise.
So it's going to be a quarterback in the last 15 seasons that the quarterback has won.
Those teams have averaged just over 13 wins per season.
None were on a team with less than 11.
So, you know, you really, you don't have to just be good.
You've got to be, you know, one of the elites of the NFL.
So when you're looking at types of teams and quarterbacks that can get there, you know,
you have to, you have to think about that.
The average preseason win total for these teams has been double digits at 10.
So, you know, we have seen some, I will say we've seen some quarterbacks on teams with
win totals as low as eight and a half.
That's kind of a magic number.
Three of the last five years with the March accent, my homes and Aaron Rogers, there's two,
those teams were all at eight and a half.
So you can find those teams that maybe were a little bit under the radar that had quarterbacks
that maybe weren't as proven yet.
So, you know, it's, it's pretty easy just to filter out with the lightliest candidates
or who they're going to be like Burrow, my homes, Hertz and Allen.
You know, I put in the preview and someone I think is worth taking a shot on is Lamar Jackson at 15 to 1
With the Ravens. I think that makes a lot of sense. I like Baltimore a lot this year
They've got a high win total. They easily can win 13-14 games
With all those new weapons in the top-monger offense and so you know, and he's obviously won it before so he's got the pedigree
I think he's definitely in play and but those are really you're not gonna find too many long long shots that are even gonna
Have a shot. I mean, I put Derek Carr as a long long shot flyer at 45 to 1 only because the Saints have by far
The easiest schedule in the NFL corner mind numbers
And he doesn't have to be great for them to win, you know, 12-13 games
I know it sounds crazy with the with the Saints team, but you know, it is a good really good defense
He's playing with he's got some receivers and he's got a good offensive line
It's not inconceivable that they win 13-14 games and in a bad NFC and he puts up good numbers
So that's amongst the long long shots. He's the one guy that I would take a look at but in general
It's it's usually the the upper quarterback elites
I feel like it's becoming unbeatable market for myself like I think the word is out that it's a quarterback
And people usually tend to bet the elite ones and they all have like suppressed odds
So it's not one of my favorite award markets to buy into one of my favorites though is coach of the year and last year
You nailed it. You gave out Brian Dable as coach of the year
What's the criteria? Because there's a very specific criteria when it comes to the coach of the year award
And a lot of people I feel don't understand that like
Bill Balachick's what the greatest coach of our generation or maybe it's Andy Reed and they have what for
Coach of the year awards between them between them
It they don't hand it out to the best coach of the year oftentimes
It's the guy who exceeds the the biggest expectation right
Yeah, that's and I was actually having this conversation with someone last week because they liked Mike McCarthy and I was like, you know
It sounds great
If they almost have to go undefeated to win that because it's not who's the best coach or who's the best team
It cuz yeah, then Bellachick would have won it every year
It's who has kind of come out of nowhere and who's exceeded the market expectations the most so when he look at the last 14
I mean 14 straight winners of this award have been on a team that has won at least nine games
But their average preseason win total is just over seven
No winner in the last 15 years came into the season on a team with a win total above nine and a half
So if you're expecting to be a double digit playoff caliber team, you're just not gonna win this award
So it's really those those guys that are in that kind of you know six to six to nine
category
Kind of in the in the sweet spot of
Of win totals and it's you know about 50 percent almost half of the last 15 winners also have been first year had coaches
So again, it's a lot of the kind of what's new what's flashy and we saw it in a brine dayball checked every box going in the last year
It's why you know he was on my list at the top
But that's that's really what you want to look for and you might find
You know certain situations like a a matma floor or
You know even a Dennis Allen on on teams that
You know just disappointed last year
But obviously there's a narrative with a guy like Laflora right without Aaron Rogers
You know, there's a possibility that if they win 12 13 games that he's gonna get consideration. So
You know there are situations like that
But you're looking at guys like Demiko Ryan's Matt Eber Flues
Arthur Smith
I put Sean Peyton in there
Dennis Allen Frank Wright like those are probably at the top and I ended up going with
Again back to my colds theme if I'm right on the colds and they can get the nine wins or even 10 and win division
I think Shane Stuykin would probably win it pretty easily
And he's definitely five to one so it kind of all goes hands and hand and hand there and he's a guy that I think
You know can make Anthony Richardson look good and gonna kind of all go together and that that's a guy that I think just for the value
Probably has the best out there, but you know, there's plenty of guys at fit, but it don't look to
Any of these teams that are expected to do well like that's just not gonna solve your air. So
I
I often look at like Ron Rivera winning it twice and Matt Nagy winning it once
As examples of this is what the award really is versus like Bella chicks two wins
They went undefeated and 14 and two like he had to go
Off the charts good just for them to consider him for the award. He's not even like a nominee in the final is in the final three
Along with your theme when I talked about wanting to bet on
Jordan loves like absolute right tail
Scenario to me Matt Laflore was the market. I wanted to attack right there's obviously division
Which is something I got interested in but
I think the narrative will be so strong if with Aaron Rogers gone green bay improves and Jordan love looks really good
It's gonna be very hard not to give Matt Laflore serious consideration if he gets the 10 or 11 wins in wins the division
Yeah, no, I agree. I think he's deaf and he's I haven't checked
In the last couple days, but he was high up on the list, right? I mean, he's like 10 to 1
So there there's a lot of value that's kind of been sucked out of it
He was he was he was higher like earlier in the offseason because around the time when I was tweeting about green bay like
North of like plus 2800 once upon a time's coach of the year, right?
And I'm like all right if I truly believe what I believe with the packers
This is a market that makes a ton of sense. Yeah, no, that's a great number
And so if they do get to 11 12 wins, he'll definitely have a big case there
But I will say
You know, I guess it depends on Jordan love like what if what if love is just average
But they there's a dominant in the run game the defense cream budget turnovers
You know does he get that kind of narrative credit?
You know, it might not, you know, it might only be tied to Jordan love because if Jordan love plays really well
Then it's like oh the floor of the softness of genius and again a lot of this is just narrative base, right?
And that's just how these awards are I mean these are these are voters that are humans and they love narrative
You know the stories to get them to these awards. So that would be my only thing is it's almost as more tied to Jordan
Love than it is to the team, but yeah, I mean they're they're definitely in play and you can just
You know, if you got him over 20 to one, I think it's a great number now if it's 10 to 1 or 11 to 1
You know a lot of the values sucked out of it, but he's clearly I know up there from
Coach of the year perspective for sure
If you asked me last year it'd be a lot more certain of the answer, but
Honestly, I know Brian Dable you got him across the line
But I really was surprised that Kyle Shanahan wasn't the
Coach of the year considering they got to 13 wins
And he did it with like the narrative of three different starting quarterbacks
I thought especially the last one being the very last pick in the draft
But I guess big New York media
Even though they were rejected at seven seven and a half wins. So it wasn't
Way over expectation. I guess like the New York media love was really strong with Brian Dable there
Yeah, but it's also I mean the average better does or the average voter doesn't look at betting preseason markets
I know that's the way we think of it as like here's what expectations are
But we don't realize that's the voters not thinking from a betting market perspective exactly
They're just looking at what the prior the prior wind total was or what would they have for wins the prior year whatever it was
So it was a pretty big jump from there
But yeah, and it's just but when I so and I say the preseason win total
It's only because that's kind of a proxy for how the general public will look at how these teams should be
But in terms of the pure the raw number. It's you know the voters won't look at it that way
You know, so um, but yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting
And that's my kind of my point all along is you know the Niners were in the NFC title game the year prior
So those voters have that in the back of their well, they're just loaded everywhere else
So he doesn't really get credit even though it was multiple quarterbacks this team is so loaded
They're supposed to do well
So in some voters minds they'd rather go with
The team that kind of came out of nowhere. So that's why I guy like Dave all would get it in a lot of those cases
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Now back to the rest of the episode
All right, forgive me if I'm wrong here, but
other than like true injury information where you can beat a market before it moves
Oftentimes some of our bigger edges in the season come from teams that are way better
Then their record says based on their underlying metrics and then oftentimes they're not as good as their
As their underlying metrics say
Would you think that's an accurate description?
Yeah, I mean, I you look at last year jax ago was a perfect case where
You know if you find if you see a team that's really getting unlucky early in the season you know
That's and the general general market. Maybe it's down on them
That's where it's an opportunity to to back them, but you know
I think that at this point like people are sharp sharp enough to be aware of you know those certain
Those teams that are over you know underperforming or over performing expectations
There's a reason why like Dallas was famous remember Dallas was favored in Minnesota
That that famous game where
Everybody was like you know the general media couldn't believe
That the Vikings that were they might have had one loss at the time
Were underdogs to a team that you know had multiple losses and it's because again
Minnesota was just winning all these close games late. They just were getting lucky
From whatever point differential perspective and underlying metrics and the same thing on the other side
I mean jaxville was
one in six
To start the season and
You know, they were really struggling from once one-score game perspectives and they turned things around
Sorry, there were three in seven
And there were one in six and in one-score games
But we knew you know if you were paying attention they were they were just on the cusp
But they just weren't getting the job done and failing late and then if you back them in the second half of the year
You know you were rewarded a lot. So you know, I think that's it's it's definitely
A way to take a look. I mean in season a little different. I think from season to season you get a little better
Sense of you know these teams that might regress, but in season
I think it's at least you know one of the one of the pieces of the puzzle
To to trying to find those those teams maybe those diamond in the rough, but it's it's always
It's always difficult because you don't know when the turn is gonna come you know
Their teams are just unlucky all year long right and our teams like Minnesota that were just
Exceeding and winning every close game all year long and it's just hard to know exactly when that
The bubble's gonna burst so you just kind of have to ride your way with much as you can
For me it was the tight ends like for two years. I'm like
Oh, they're just not that good look at their metrics and like
Unstable 90% touchdown rate in the red zone. I'm like there's no way they can play at this level and I and like through 10 games
I'm like oh my god like I'm just never gonna be right on the tight ends and then eventually the shoe finally dropped on them
um
I said this asked this question to set up you added something really uh fascinating
You it's something called fourth quarter win percentage over expected
What exactly is that?
Yeah, so it's really just another take on uh, you know point differential and pathagorean win expectation
Which again takes takes uh, it's got a formula that's you know pretty pretty well known out there football outsiders uses it a lot
That takes into count point differential and kind of where you should be from a win total perspective versus actual wins
And whenever you know historically you could have really made a lot of money in in the past
Whenever there's a big gap between the expected wins and actual wins
You know, you can find really good values from from season to season
You know, and so when I was looking at my preview last year and I was digging in and I was using a lot of the Pythag and
You know a lot of the close you know one score game, you know metrics
There are a lot of times I was looking at some of these games like that really
I mean even though it ended as a seven point game that really wasn't a one-score game the true kind of
The spirit of why it's you know
And necessarily look at those things is if you continually getting lucky and in kind of coin flip situations
Or unlucky then you would think that you know that should regress to at least you know close to 50-50 the next season because
It's really hard to control that
The the bounce of the ball at the end of these games so often
And so you know, I was looking with my analyst and I said look I actually think that you know eliminating some of these
You know lucky, you know, these uh kind of backdoor situations where teams are scoring late to
In the end of two years ago who always scored late and backdoored and made it look like they lost a lot of close games that they weren't in two years ago
Right exactly and and also the other way too where team could be up three touchdowns late and they've got essentially a 100% win probability and a team
You know you play prevent a team scores two touchdowns late to you know
To pad their stats or whatever. It's like that's not really the they were getting blown out like that
That's not a seven-point game and you know team that's up three touchdowns and scores two touchdowns late with on a pick six and a you know
Special teams, you know fumble recovery or whatever you know, whatever it could be like there's just so many fluky things that happens in the last five minutes
They're so of a game so what I wanted to look at all right who were really
um that the what were the win probabilities?
You know through the kind of halfway point of the fourth quarter
That really I think it does a better job of measuring the true kind of essence of the game
There weren't any crazy fluky outcomes
It was a lot of things you can't control late in these games and there's a lot of um, you know
Just when when motivation changes all those sorts of things once you get late in the game
I don't look at kind of us uh an earlier look at what the uh win probabilities are so you know
My analyst did did some work and he backtested some of this and said you know really
The the mode a little bit more predictive measure of next years
win totals really is
Measuring early kind of the fourth quarter early fourth quarter
win probability and so we came up with kind of a blended number
In terms of win win probabilities throughout the fourth quarter and you kind of come up with one number
That makes sense and that one was the most predictive, you know
Going back over 20 years of data and it's just you know
It's slightly more predictive than Pythagorean it's not not a ton
But just enough to at least examine it and really where we found was
Looking at um, not just win totals, but really the alternative markets and to make the playoff markets
So really the the find the the biggest outliers both from an uh exceeding expectations and underperforming expectations and
Betting those uh kind of alts um, you know
picking up an extra win or an extra loss on the downside or from from an all-perspective and getting
You know essentially plus 190 uh, you know on those and then to make the playoffs and to miss the playoffs
And really kind of getting those tail outcomes that we see every year
And if we can find those teams that really underperform or overperform the most, you know, what does that look like and you know
It's been pretty successful
Going back you know 20 years you're talking about you know 25% ROI on
The teams that it's you know we're overperforming so you kind of faded those teams and then you know about a 10% ROI and the teams that we're
Underperforming expectations you can find some some good gems and last year we did really well was a first year
We kind of rolled this out in the summer and we hit on teams like Seattle on the upside and Minnesota
You know, we had the Rams to miss the playoffs and they're under alts like we had a lot of really you know
Good hits so you know again
It's it's just another it's a different way of looking at things. I personally like to see
I think looking at win probabilities is a much better way of you know visioning
Um did the team really get lucky here or were they kind of down the entire
Game and then just just backdoored it so it's just a bet it's just up for me and a better visually
A way of looking at close games and what happens at the end of these games
Yeah, I loved it and when you really back tested and showed hey here's how you would have done betting these alternate win totals
Like that's one of my favorite parts in the preview
Um, okay, let's give people a little taster but not give away the whole recipe
can you give us one or two teams that
Were much luck the much luckier as far as uh fourth quarter one percentage and two teams that were unlucky
Yo, well the luckiest is easy. We've already talked about them in a soda like after it's people are sick of talking about them
But I need to go 11 and 0 in you know
One-score games is pretty
Is definitely unheard of um
Yeah, I mean, I just that's my it was mind boggling all season and to happen
You know when you look back it's pretty ridiculous
Some of the times that they won
I mean, they're the only team to win more than one game when they were when they held less than a 10 percent
win probability using my
Fourth quarter metrics and you know those those are pretty easy to remember
That's that Buffalo game with the Justin Jefferson catch and then Josh Allen
Fumbling in his own end zone and then it was that
Saturday I think it was Saturday
Christmas game yeah
What's that like inch in didn't have for sure
Rolling yeah, that was uh
Yeah 3936 and so those are I mean again you looking just looking at we knew that those were big
Comebacks, but then when you look at win probability it makes it you know look even more improbable
So I mean not only if if you look at point differential too
um, you know, they exceeded expectations by four and a half games which is just incredible
I mean from either metric whatever you want to use they had the highest
Kind of all uh
You know exceeding
Expectations on the upside the highest rate the NFL has seen in the last 22 years
And that's how far back my data goes and I go past
Earlier than 2000. It's by far. It's not even close like there's nobody even in the ballpark
So and look the markets understand then that's why they're
They're winded all those eight and a half after winning 13 games last year
And I think the one thing that you know, I try to do is you know me and you understand that
But I think that the average Joe maybe does a better lot or doesn't doesn't do this for for living or is it's not
It's not something that they really study a lot
They'll just look at the win total and say oh how are the Vikings eight and a half that's an easy over
And then it's like when you put this in context as to why
The win total is where it is and the market already reflects you know a lot of that regression
You know, that's that's why I think you know valuable for for people that don't follow this stuff
So again me and you know this it's not we're not breaking any any news here
But it's just interesting to take a look. I mean when you go back to 2000
There's been 35 teams that had a win kind of a win percentage differential
As large as the Vikings
And they won just under three games less than next season. So it's not really a shock
Only 34% of these teams went over their win total again the market is much smarter now
So that's probably factor in in might have might have gone the other way might have gone too far right
I was about to say that there's often whenever there's a runaway narrative
The pendulum sometimes like
Take Cincinnati for example last year
The narrative was this wasn't a Super Bowl team the one that went to the Super Bowl
They got lucky throughout the playoffs
And then I said yeah, I buy that they weren't as good as a team that should have been in the Super Bowl when they played the Rams
But I said they actually had a quietly really good off season where you know
They're keep adding smart defensive pieces. They were they fixed the O line
And you also have to attribute Joe burrow and Jamar chase and all these guys taking a step forward
So oftentimes there's a balance of yeah, that once the narrative gets running one way
Sometimes you question has it gone just a little bit too far. Yeah, and that's that's where it gets difficult
And you know for me I have no plan the Vikings either way
I will say
You know, they were also very healthy there were the fifth lowest adjusted games lost to injury
Cousins Jefferson, Thielin, Delvin, Cook all played 18 games all 18 games. So you know that's zero
Yeah, all line two was like to intact the entire season
I think well Darry's style is the only one who missed a couple of games and he is their best one
So that is that is one guy who you know, they definitely
You'll lost that they need it
But otherwise all their skill guys were we're healthy all year
So you know for me and then you just look at the Vikings in terms of
You know, if you're looking at their win total like you know, I talk about it in the in the preview
Just look at what Questy the GM who came from Cleveland. So I know him pretty well
Just look at some of the moves he's made he they're not trying to win this year. So
You know normally I might say all right this this thing is gone kind of it's the pendulum is swung too much on the negative
But I don't think they're really trying to compete necessarily this year
He's smart enough to know that that was a complete outlier last year
And that's not gonna happen again
So he didn't he cut a lot of their older guys. Obviously we saw Dalvin cook and Thielin and they traded Zedarius Smith
Like they're not really trying to go for it this year, which is smart
I mean, it's really refreshing because you never see a GM do that
But from a win total perspective
It's probably not something that I'm interested in so you know, they're probably the by far the luckiest team
I mean, there are some others
Well, I would say we got lucky a different aspects. I think of luck is important
It's not you don't have to necessarily be lucky in every category
But I mean you look at it from a health perspective. I mean the jets
Again, doing the preview. I think some of these things come to light which
Were things I didn't realize to I dug in you know the entire jets secondary was injury free as good as that defense was last year
And Robert Salas defense with sauce gardener etc. DJ read like they didn't miss a single game
Their top three corners didn't miss a single game, which is very rare their entire defense was pretty healthy
So when you look from year to year to expect that they're just gonna come back the next year and add Aaron Rodgers
And they're gonna have the best defense the NFL. It's like well, maybe maybe
But how can you possibly expect them to be fully healthy again?
And would they have been so dominant on defense if they had kind of a normal injury rate and we don't know so
Looking at things like that look at the the Falcons offensive line
You know a lot of people are talking about how they're gonna be grinders and and Arthur Smith's offense
And they're gonna run the ball down your throat and their offensive line was top five in the lead last year
And a lot of the metrics well for their five they're for their five best linemen played all 17 games again
The most probably the most physically draining position group in the NFL to get your four best linemen to play all 17
Is this not gonna happen again? So you got a count for that
So it's though looking at those kind of specific data points and you know can teams overcome that if they do get the injury bug or
You know, you know if I have opposing field goal percentage, you know made against them if a team kind of has a
One way or another if it regresses back to the mean is how much does that affect them in close games like those sorts of things
I think are pretty valuable from an unlucky standpoint
I've got the Titans and it's funny because like you said they were kind of the luckiest teams for a couple years at a row
exceeding expectations
So maybe this is just completely, you know the pendulum completely swinging and maybe it won't go back the other way
next season, but you know
They lost five games where they led or the game was tied with less than three minutes remaining
They had two games
Where they were they had over an 80% win probability
Midway through the fourth quarter and lost if remember that opener with the giants that was one of my
Biggest bets of the season early on was with that giants team. They scored late
Tennessee came all the way down and had a very makeable with 43 yard field goal that
Was either blocked or missed so they had a couple of those situations where they held a big
win probability and just couldn't hold the lead late
Which was very opposite of what they saw in prior years, you know
They were the second biggest underachiever from the fourth quarter win probability standpoint over expected
You know, they should have won more like nine and a half games than the
The seven that they won last year
So typically it seems like that that underperformed to that extent
Improve their win totals the next season by close to two games
So you should see some sort of level of improvement
But you know that offense could be so bad that it may not matter
They're they only recovered this they recovered the second lowest percentage of fumbles in the league and their opponent
made the six
Lowest field will percentage against them. So it kind of went both ways
And then you know the injury bug hit them especially on defense. You know
Yeah, everybody on defense got hurt. They were the they suffer the most
Adjusted games lost using the football outsiders metric on defense in the NFL
So they were banged up a ton and they were still number one in the NFL against the run
So, you know, there are reasons to like them actually going forward
But but you know, they were definitely one of the unlucky teams
All right, let's look at
Let's talk about wide
Range of outcomes for teams because you know, we could sit there and and do it one hour podcasts about the chiefs and the bangles
And talk about their upside and downside and let's be real
There's not much daylight between it whereas I like to talk about the teams where like their season could be really good or really bad
And oftentimes if you guess right you can have some big opportunities going against market
Let's start off with the Washington commanders
Washington was a team that we backed a lot last year
This year though, I think their wide range of outcomes is tied to a complete unknown in Sam. How
Are you high or low on Washington?
I'm lower and it's not necessarily
Because I don't think they've got talent on the roster. They definitely have they have a good defense
I think it's probably the most underrated defense you know from an EPA perspective. They were
You know, they're fifth in the NFL, but
They for a while
They were kind of middle of pack, but the only reason was because you know, turnovers are so
Our factors so highly when it comes to EPA that the first handful of games that I think they created a single turnover for the first like four or five games
They did it was maybe one and so their their EPA numbers are actually
You know way lower than they should have been
But their success rate was top five in the NFL. So I remember they they were going going up against the Bears
I think that was a pick-up game and I was on Washington and I didn't understand because I knew that the underlying metrics like their defense a lot more
Then you know the EPA and some other things and they're putting their offense in some bad spots
So I think from a defensive perspective. They're really good. They get back chase young
They are young in the secondary. They added a couple a couple of highly drafted rookies
Manual Forbes is going to play corner for them who's you know
One of the biggest playmakers from Mississippi state in the draft
So you know the upside is there for the defense to continue on being really good
I just I'm not a Sam Howell fan. I had them actually in week 18 against Dallas and you know
They ended up winning that game pretty easily and you know you hit a couple of big plays, but he didn't really show me much
You know Jacobi presets there again. I'm from Cleveland
I know how well he played last year, but he needed you know
He needed very specific surroundings for him to succeed. He needed very good offensive line a really good run game and enough weapons to
To compete and a good offensive coach and you don't really get that in Washington
Their offensive line is pretty jumbled up. It wasn't great last year
They they lost a couple pieces didn't really add much
From that perspective and so I'm not sure the offensive lines there
I mean, I don't think Brian Robinson's a really good running back. He was kind of a stuck in mud last year a little bit
He's just okay
They have really good weapons outside, but you know just if you can't get protected and he can't use the run game
In play action, etc. Like he's not a presets really not the guy to to lead that team
So I do have questions there their schedules brutal for a team that's not looked to be highly rated
So when amongst my lower power rated teams they have the toughest schedule them and the Raiders in the NFL
They're the only ones who have one of the top 10 toughest schedules amongst the bad teams. So they got
Some some unfair breaks there. So I just I can never back a team that I just don't have faith with the quarterback
And I have so many holes along the offensive line
So I'm more on the negative. I look if they won eight games nine games it wouldn't shock me
But this is not a team that I'm you know just dying to batch because there's just too many holes there and
I just think that the schedule is just way way too hard
All right, you alluded to the Jets and there's a
Of people there's a group of people who say you know what this team is super well ready
We've we've seen me hold a veteran quarterback comes into a ready-made situation a few years ago with Tampa Bay
And Tom Brady the Rams a couple years ago with Stafford and then last year Russell Wilson with Denver
When you look at Aaron Rogers on the Jets are you higher
Are you as high as the rest of the market in thinking that they could be Super Bowl contenders?
Are you lower or are you in weight and C mode?
Yeah, I'm right. I'm in kind of the neutral spot
I think that the number nine and a half is perfect for them. I think they're right in that range
But I do think that there are cases to be made that if things fall you know the right way if everybody if everybody's best case in the league occurred
They would be one of the top contenders for the Super Bowl no doubt about it
So you know if Aaron Rogers if last year was just an anomaly that you know his receivers dropped too many balls
That is I mean his PFF grade compared to his EPA was a lot better
And that he had one of the highest drop rates in the NFL amongst his receivers
And he didn't have many good receivers there if if it's you know, simple as that
He becomes you know another
He's back to being a top 10 quarterback
And the defense again stays healthy and they don't suffer the the typical kind of volatile
Year-to-year change we see with a lot of these good defenses
Then there's plenty of reasons to like them. I mean, I will say on defense, you know, they did not force
It's one thing when you you really rank highly because you
Force ton of turnovers high-level situations. They didn't really do that like they were good without
Creating impactful turnovers, which I think is very it boasts very well for them
So yeah, there's clearly reasons to like them. It's always difficult. You find these these you know
High highly touted quarterbacks that switch teams, you know, Tom Brady's really the only one recently that
It's really worked. I mean Russell Wilson. We saw it didn't work
Matt Ryan he might have been just a couple of you wash, but that didn't work
Stafford as well, but it's true
Oddly enough the Rams and Tampa didn't enter the playoffs as like no top three seeds and look like I think Tampa was a wildcard team
And the Rams were the fourth place division winner and and
It didn't matter in the end they they they ended up building enough momentum in like a three game sample size when it mattered most in the playoffs
I will say the other problem too is they start off their schedules brutal right off the bat
You know get yeah, I mean look at Tom Brady when he that rookie that first season with with Tampa
First few games. He was awful people were talking about. Oh, I mean he's washed. He's done
He need a bellicic, right? And then they started bigger things out towards the halfway towards the season
They're by week and they really started to explode and you know, it's gonna be it could be a similar case like that
So you might get to me the best way to play the jets is
You know you get me look up you get Buffalo you get Dallas, New England, Kansas City
Denver and Philly the start just an absolutely
Uh an absolute gauntlet to start the season
Yeah, you know if they go three and three in the first six games
They're they have a real shot and so maybe it's worth just waiting out the first month of the year
See where they stand because the odds of them being five and one or something or six and dollars is really low
So if you can maybe get a better price on them
I think that's where you'd want to look is let's wait a few games
Let's assume that they're going to essentially go 500 early on and then you know, that's where you pound
And you maybe get a little bit more value
And you just you just risk you know that the jets are not going to come out that hot and you know
Just blow everybody away right away. So that that's the way I would play but I I clearly think that there's
Ways for the jets to exceed expectations and and to make it to the Super Bowl
It's not it's definitely not impossible
All right, let's talk about this team because it feels like everywhere I look all the smart guys are bear are bullish on them and they
You know for a friend sharp Clark is was talking about the Falcons for the division and then I heard
Rapazola and summa and Eric Eger and Steve Fesick everybody's talking about love for the Falcons and you know the Will Smith meme
Where in Fresh Prince of Bel Air when he's in the empty living room and he's wondering if he's alone with with his
With with himself and I'm like I'm not I'm not buying this Falcons team
And I was wondering if I would have an ally and then I finally saw your preview and I said I've got an ally
Here's somebody else who also doesn't believe in all the steam on the Falcons
What's the reason that's holding you back
Well, look, I think I projected them to win eight games or so. So I'm right on the market. It's not like
You know, I think they're gonna win five games or anything like that
But I just so let's step back
And you know, why do people like them?
Because you can poke holes through all of these narratives and obviously you can go the other way
But you know for my agency
Yeah, the first thing is is scheduled a division right? Yeah, the division's not great
I clearly think the saints are much better, but okay
They say oh well, they're gonna face look at all these easy these bad quarterbacks they face
Well, then I'll say well look at your quarterback. They're all saying the same thing about Desmond Ritter
Who was like 40th in EPA last year?
Like he wasn't good
He faced all backups literally every quarterback he faced was a backup Tyler Huntley and Andy Dalton
David Blau
He faced Kyle Trask and Blaine Gabbert in the finale against a Tampa team that sat everybody in the second half because it was a meaningless game for them
Face Arizona who was essentially their only plane because it's JJ Watts farewell like they nobody
Baltimore at Tyler Huntley like it was
And he faced the easiest set of
I guess
Besides the Ravens defense like it was as easy as you can get for a situation to come in late
So like I won't say if you look at a schedule like where is Desmond Ritter head and shoulders above any of the other starting quarterbacks are facing
Like the only ones that I would say all right, you I'll take Ritter over this guy
um
Would probably be Sam Howell now, but if Jacobi percent starting I probably take percent and the only other one would be Baker
Mayfield and even then that's that's a debate Baker mayfield's actually one games in the NFL
So from that perspective, I don't buy it that just because they face an easy set of a quarterbacks
Well, your quarterbacks things too and then the other you know what people will say is oh look at the they were in all these games last year
They weren't expected to I think they went what five and nine or five and eight in quote-unquote one-score game games
Which I think is you know complete nonsense if you actually dig in again
That's where the win probability stuff comes into play because there's a handful of games
And I remember because I bet them all um where you know
They were getting blown out early in the fourth quarter and then all of a sudden they get a couple of fluke plays late
And the game ends up as a one-score game
They were not in most of those games against the Rams. They were down the 21-3 at halftime
Against Tampa. It was like 21-nothing until they scored a couple late touchdowns
Like a lot of these games that they were never really in that they get credit for
So I don't really buy that there's any sort of regression from that standpoint. They were exactly where they should have been
And then you look at you know, this is a run first offense
They're gonna just you know
Arthur Smith and his his offensive line is this gonna with Bijan Robinson
They're gonna run right through these teams and it's like well since when is running the football a good thing as your number one
Key to success on offense. I I don't know why all of a sudden people are just turning their
Um, you know deciding to to go back on passing the football on a sudden running the football such a great thing
Yeah, that's a good idea if you can stay in these games because if you're down early
You can't use the run to come back
So it's only in games where they get a lead where the run games really going to be sustainable
I mean Tyler Elgear
Was one of the top 10 running backs in NFL last year by every metric
So as good as Bijan and Cordell Patterson ran for over five yards per carry like even if Bijan Robinson is really good
How much better can he be than those guys? I don't think it's really that additive
Uh, it felt redundant actually let them to add Bijan Robinson considering they had a lot of big holes everywhere else
Yeah, and then you again the offensive line great. They were awesome last year
For like I said four of the five linemen their best ones played all 17 games
That's probably not going to happen again
And they're probably not going to play at that same exact level again
So you know automatically going to see a little bit of a drop off and then the defensively
They were the worst past defense in the NFL based on my metrics when you adjust for for opponent
Which they faced literally the
highest percentage of
Cubes that were either backups or ranked 30th or worse in EPA like they were really bad
So they raised a really easy schedule. You're going to face an easy one again
But it may not be anywhere near you know as bad as that one
And all these free agent additions like let's go through them jesse bates really good safety
Safety doesn't move the needle like there's no if if jesse bates plays or gets hurt
Like that the point spreads not going to move at all
It's it's you know, it's a nice player to have but that really isn't going to to solve the the issues in the secondary
They added Jeffrey Okuda and Mike Hughes to be your number two endorse yeah
Yeah, nothing spectacular there. Yeah, and then defensively the bud or on the past rush bud Dupree
But Dupree has been washed for three years. He was a mediocre past rusher in Tennessee
With the best maybe the best defense of front outside of Philly
That he had in Tennessee and he can only muster what six acts and
Kind of league average or below average pressure rates like he's not gonna
He's not gonna all of a sudden come into Atlanta and be some superstar
So like and they've got you know couple other nice players Kate and Alice David on Yamada
I mean Kalea's Campbell's gonna be 37 years old. He can't play a full op in a snap
So the defense will be improved, but like how much better can that defense be?
I'm not really sure so long story short
Yeah, are there scenarios where this team can win 10 games where you know, Desmond Ritter improves is maybe a lead
You know the 20th ranked quarterback sure there's absolutely scenarios, but uh that where that can happen
But why is it automatic like what's the upside? He's a third around pick
He was awful last year in limited duty against bad competition
Um like where is where is this pedigree coming from that all sudden we're supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's got the the possibility of being a top
You know a top half of the NFL quarterback. I'm not sure
Where that's kind of automatic and and way more downward scenarios here
Um, then there are upwards and I just don't think I'm I don't agree with backing
A team with a quarterback who just to me has very little shot of being
um, you know above average. So
Like anyway, I just I'm always wary of these teams that get all the pub in the offseason
That surprised the prior year. I just you can't just use schedule
Um to to to be a reason why and that be the only reason why you know, you're gonna win the division or you know in the NFC
But that's just me. I also don't like the fact that when people talk about their offensive weapons like Drake London and Kyle pits and then
The three running backs. I'm like that's not a dangerous defense to defend offense to defend against because there's no like
There's no threat of a deepball at all and if if teams can crouch down and play you in a box
It isn't that's not exactly a dangerous team that you've got to worry about on offense
You pointed to all their defensive metrics like there are 30th and defensive DVOA last year
I don't see a big improvement from that standpoint. So again, like I'm not I'm not
I have the fucking says like my 25th power rated team that's gonna get to about seven and a half eight wins just because
Of this schedule, but I'm not I don't think I'm buying the
The absolute tail outcome for them and what about the fact that okay Drake London. Yeah good prospect
Who's behind him they've got Mac Collins and Scotty Miller as their number two and three receivers
So one injury or you know a poor season out of out of London and you've got nothing behind him. So again, it's it's a very flimsy
roster and I think that you know spending a lot in free agency has never been
you know really the
You know you don't necessarily see all the fruits of those labors
You know in year one, but I don't know. I think that
This is they're just getting a little bit too much hype for me and I just just give me a little better quarterback
If you had Derek Carr there, I'd feel a lot better honestly
You know that I just doesn't read or just didn't do it for me last year. He dropped in the draft
He was picked behind a lot of bad quarterbacks
I mean, this is the one of the worst quarterback drafts that we've seen and he went in the third round
He didn't do anything last year's show and he showed me that he deserves the respect to be to be bet on to win the division
Like that's just crazy to me
You know, there's nothing a lead about the rest of this roster at least offensively
That I would say I like he's gonna have a great run game a great defense
So he just needs to not make mistakes. There's just nothing about that defense that would ever get me there
So I don't know how you can back a guy who
You know hasn't proven anything and and doesn't have again doesn't have the pedigree
So isn't Jordan love was a first round pick who's played way less snaps and then does me ridder
This is a guy who's a third round pick and was and struggle last year and in kind of a the easiest final four games
You can have so yeah
Account me as as someone who's not high on the Falcons, although I'm not gonna fade them
All right
One more team and then we'll get into your Super Bowl pick
Uh, this team has gotten some love in the offseason. It's the Chicago Bears
Um, what are you looking at when you look at the Bears in their wide range of outcomes?
Yeah, I'm again. I'm an Ohio State guy. So, uh, you know, I trust me
I want Justin Fields to be really good. I just I don't think that he's a pocket quarterback
He's even when guys are open. There's plenty of data out there that says even when guys are open. He's not hitting them
Um, he's not accurate and he holds on to the ball a lot
I just look he was awesome. He was electric last year. I bet on uh, there are overs a lot at the end of the year
They were really they're really um, you know, fun to watch
But it's just not sustainable. I mean the amount of uh, pounding he's gonna take we already saw you got hurt last year
I just he's not Lamar Jackson. We're Lamar like sidesteps and runs out of balance
Justin Fields will take you on and that is and he's not that big of a guy. He's not Cam Newton
So I just I think that's just so risky the second that he gets hurt
This team is a complete they're the worst team in the NFL
Potentially so you know, I just it's hard for me to really love them
You know to win a bunch of games. Yeah, they're from a regression standpoint that they were unlucky and a lot of
metrics
You know, they did face
You know, one of the tougher schedules in the NFL
There were one in seven in one score games. You know, they got unlucky late
So you know for just that alone. It's already factored in the the win told. I mean seven and a half from where they were last year
It's a four and a half win jump
Year of year and you know, I looked at that
They're one of six teams
Since 2000 with it with a win total jump of at least four and a half wins from the prior year
Obviously, I'm only looking at you know, if you got at least win three games
I'm not looking at the teams that went over because that's automatic
The over is hit in two of those cases, but most of those
Big gaps and win totals was because you know, a star quarterback went down and the season was was lost for that team
So it was just a matter of getting that quarterback back
It was it is a very rare case of a team getting so much love and inflation in the marketplace
And they didn't spend wisely on defense first of all
This is the
Now and defensively once they traded well quantum Smith
This was the worst def this might have been the worst defense
The NFL is seen in a long time like they were not last in EPA. They were like they left the field
An EPA in the second half of the season. It was just atrocious and they didn't really do anything in the secondary
It's very young secondary
Um, you know guys like you know Jalen Johnson's fine, but Tyrick Stevenson the rookie out of Miami
Is starting got Kyler Gordon another young guy they've a ton of young players in the secondary didn't play well last year
They added their past rush was a mess after they traded well quantum Smith and
Robert Quinn and they didn't add anything to it
They added to Marcus Walker was the best guy that they added they'd spent all their money on linebackers
TJ Edwards is a fine player that actually was a good contract. I mean signing
Tremaine Edwin Edmonds for as much money as they did just didn't make any sense to me when they had such a need at past rush
So I just didn't think they used they allocated their capital well their front seven is still you know very poor
And I just you can't to me. I would not back a team with the defense. It's probably bottom five again. It's just
I miss your quarterback spadrick my homes
I'm not taking you to go 500 if you know, you've got one of the worst defenses in the NFL
So I don't know. I don't yeah, there'll be the the win some games the win some games they showed in and I think this line is reflecting that you know that this is probably
They're probably in that range of six seven wins
You know, maybe they get to eight if they're lucky, but
They're not they're not a team that I'm really considering to be a sleeper playoff team
No, I was talking with Tase Seth about the bears and I said like
spending 18 million dollars on Tremaine Edmonds when every other good linebacker in the freed and she went for five to six million
Is ridiculous like triple the next range of guys
Don't go out and spend big money on a past rusher. I didn't love their draft
like I wasn't a fan of either of the defensive tackles that they took
and
Honestly, I was a little offended that the bears had a lower odds
To win the division than the packers like to me. There was a clear disconnect in the bears were the team
That was being steamed early and I'm like I think you guys are missing the mark here, man. I get it
There's a young flashy quarterback, but
The defense was atrocious like you could almost blindly bet their overs towards the end of the season
Because the games were going to be shootouts everything was going to be in the thirties
Yeah, I mean, so I will say the reason that they I know why they spent the money on Tremaine Edmonds is because
You know, you look at Maddie refluse at Indianapolis. He had Shaq Leonard like he needs that that
Limebacker to kind of control the defense. He loves linebackers in his scheme
But still it's just it's a waste of money in my opinion
I knew they had money to spend, but it just they didn't need to do that
And so when you even look again part of my preview one thing I started I wanted to depict it with these one
These single page previews is you see the bottom left hand side
I looked at kind of you can talk about you know, what's your overall EPA offense defense
But I want to know on a game-to-game basis how consistently were you
You know
Holding your opponents for example to an EPA below their their season average and you can see I've got kind of a bar chart with a line
You can see what the opponents were expected to produce and how much they actually did produce and you see a lot of negatives
From the defensive side on kind of a negative performance week to week starting in week eight like they didn't hold any
offense
Below their expected
EPA I think except for one time in week 15 so but that's just another way to take a look at that
But you know the consistency level was just so poor. They just got they got thrashed by everybody
And so you know that I don't know if it's gonna be that much better this year
All right, I said we'll talk about your Super Bowl pick
Who do you like coming out of the AFC and who do you like coming out of the NFC
So I copped out and I took the the chiefs again
But how am I gonna how am I gonna fade a team that or Patrick Mahon just made the AFC title game at every single one of his seasons
Who's gonna fade that like I just I could have gone with Baltimore
I think that they I had them. I think as a number one seed
I really think they're gonna they're gonna do well
I think Lamar's gonna really shine in that Todd Monk in system
I think those added weapons will be will be positive
They're a team that underperformed even though they won 10 games last year, which was a rarity
They're a team that blew a lot of leads. It could have been a lot better
And obviously if he stays healthy the good you know, they're gonna be really good this year
I just went with old reliable so I'll go with the chiefs and I and I have Dallas in the NFC
Which it maybe is a little more controversial. I'm not sure
But I just think they're really really well-rounded
Um, I love the pickups of Brandon cooks and Stefan Gilmore on each side of the ball like those were
Like they already had top 10 level offense and defense and those are just like cherry on top because it's exactly what they needed on each side of the ball
Uh, they needed a down the field threat that they weren't getting really with with anybody else on the roster
And Michael Gallup wasn't doing it. So Brandon cooks was perfect on the outside for them
Um, yeah, you know, you know, cd cd lambs gonna move all over the field
He can be used as a chess piece in the slot, etc
Um, can it really create some tough mismatches and then defensively Gilmore was still really good
This is back-to-back years. He was a top 20 graded cornerback by pff
And he's you know him and digs is a really nice combo there
Uh, so I think it fits perfectly for you know, what they need on each side of the ball
And otherwise they're a really complete team
I mean, I mean, you can see a lot more
Explosiveness with with more carries and more touches from Tony Pollard versus what we saw with Zeke
You know holding him back last year. You're not gonna have that elbow trust there
So I think that's additive. I mean the one area concerned the only area concerned. I have with them is
The coaching staff. I mean, I think it's just I'm not a huge Mike McCarthy fan
Um, and I mean Brian shot in Heimer. I could not believe that's who they they decided to replace Kellen Moore
You know, I just I don't understand that one but
You know, and maybe it's just gonna be really McCarthy running running the show and in shot in Heimer's just just the figurehead, right
So I feel a little bit better about that
But that's the one area that's a little bit scary for me
They just have so much talent that I'm just kind of betting on the talent more than
Then the coaching and then defensively they were really good Dan Quinn's back
Did a really good job last year. I have no qualms about that defense the only time last year that they struggled
There's a late stretch about a four-week stretch where they struggled towards the end of the year
Defending the past and that was really when Anthony Brown went down. He was a dumb to corner
They had nobody else to really replace them. So now with Gilmore in there. I mean you got our really it's a big upgrade
From a value perspective and so as again as long as they are
You know, they don't get too banged up
I think that's just a quality quality defense and offense got Michael Parsons wrecking havoc like there's no weakness
Find me the weakness on this on both sides of the ball. It's very very tough
So I'm just going with the team that I think
Is the most talented and you know, I think Philly as good as they they've been you know, they face such a cake schedule last year
And obviously we saw in this and if you title game you get
Essentially not playing against a quarterback like they had every break in the book as much as I love them
You know, there is that disease of me out there. It happens a lot even to the best of them
So I still think they make the playoffs. I just don't think they're gonna get to the Super Bowl again
And I think Dallas is just a better overall team this year
Yeah, I was talking to Rob Pizzola. I'm like
Dallas
I thought their offseason was very surgical
They didn't build in a million things. They just said we want to impact players and they go in to get cooks and go more
At two positions where they need a depth
The Kansas City thing you said like you know, it's hard to go against Patrick Mahomes
I have had a 20 year beef with Tom Brady fans because I am adamant to this day that at his peak Peyton Manning was a far better quarterback
Than Tom Brady and I believe also Aaron Rogers
Just just from a thrower of the ball perspective because he breaks every chart
I said Tom Brady's greatness though comes from what he did post age 37 in his longevity
And obviously you can't take away his accolades. So that's what makes him the greatest
So I'm fighting back Cleveland after after conceding that Tom Brady was the goat
I now troll everybody and restart the argument and my line is always
Patrick Mahomes is everything you guys have pretended Tom Brady is
Because he's got the Peyton Manning. I'm going to win five MVPs and be the best player
Of my generation, but he's also racking up accolades at the rate that Tom Brady did and
Patrick Mahomes is my revenge tour on everybody who I had the Peyton Manning and Tom Brady argument with and had to concede
I cannot wait for the day that Patrick Mahomes has surpassed Tom in in front of everybody's minds
I mean, it's just incredible and you see these articles are I mean, I think PFF had
I know what was it that Brady wasn't or Mahomes
He wasn't like top five in certain graded throws or something. It was just something ridiculous
Like it's like every people are just dying to unsee them and I get it like this
Just people get sick of of dominance
But he is by far the best quarterback in the NFL and could end up being the best of all time
And I mean look, if you weren't going to get him last year like when are you going to get him they had a completely revamped
My receiving court
They had he got hurt in the playoffs
The walk is really even able to walk and he still wins a Super Bowl
Like what else I mean if he's if you're not going to fade him then and he's not going to drop then
When is that going to happen? So I'm not going to be the one to do that
So I'm just going to write him as long as I can like I said I mean Baltimore would be a team that I really like
As another option
But I'm just going to go with go with the chiefs and again your bangles
Which you've done a nice job backing them the last couple of years
You know look they've they've you know
They've avoided the injury bug until the pro season right like they got hit with offensive line bug and you know
In fact of them late, but in general they've been fairly healthy and but they they are almost blow out proof
I mean that I have the stat in there. I don't think they've lost by more than a fuel goal with Jamar chasing a lineup
Since like five games into his rookie season. It's been some insane number
Of consecutive games that they just when they lose and he's in the lineup
It's you know, they barely lose and otherwise they win. So you know, they're going to be right there, but I just I don't
It's hard. I think they lost enough talent defensively
I think that you know, we don't know what's going to happen with mixin and
You know there's you T Higgins is going to want some money soon like we're starting to there could be a couple cracks there
I'm not I'm not going to take them. They're the most popular pick to go to the Super Bowl
And I'm just not there right now, but in the division stuff too
So I I've gotten flak for saying I think every team is a top 12 power rated team in the division
And I loved it because you went out and made every team with a winning record in that division
I'm like all right
I'm not alone in this understanding that everyone's good
But no the Cleveland's a team I want to buy the absolute right tail if Dishon Watson looks anything like he did in Houston top five receiver
And Cleveland finally fixed the D line after what seems like five years since Miles Garrett got there
They're finally well-rounded multiple past rushers
Fixed the interior D line and as long as like the top six linebackers don't get hurt again this year
I like Cleveland events a lot this year
Yeah, and that's and you had the Jim Schwartz factor is they they have not had a consistent past rush out opposite miles Garrett
I mean cloud. He's been okay at times, but you know
He's in and I'll line up. He doesn't even want to play half the time to get not just to do is Smith
But open what wrong quote from from Houston love no one yet and only nerds like us and pf
Follow and realize that guy has been he's exceeded expectations last couple of years
I mean his pressure rate is is one amongst the the better ones in the league. They have three top 20 pressure rate
Edge rushers
You know in the lineup, which is I don't know if anybody else can can say that
They've never had that they they
Signed Delvin Thomelson
To help shore off the middle middle the run defense one Thornhill and Rodney McLeod two good safeties
They signed they've got three good cornerbacks like they've got everything you need Jim Schwartz is proven to always put quality
Defenses out there is an attacking style like this is a really good roster offensively you got a top 10 offensive line
You got potentially top 10 quarterback maybe the best running back in the NFL like
This is it like this is the prove it you're
Kevin Safansky will not make it past this year if they don't you know
At least win nine or ten games in my opinion because the talent's too good
So yeah, I agree with you from a non the teams that are not favored to make the playoffs there by far in my opinion
The best kind of longer shot to get there. So we'll see I'm a Cleveland fan and we always get disappointed. So
I'm just bracing for that, but the I agree with you
All right, I want to I want to thank you cleave TA you've been so generous with your time man
No, I appreciate it, you know, I'd love to come on another time. So thanks and appreciate all your hard work here
Where can people get the preview where where can they find it? Yeah, well you can either go on my twitter
Profile at cleave TA or just go to cleaveanalytics.com and there's a NFL preview tab there
So in the NFL content page. So yeah, I said it's free. Hopefully people enjoy it and
You know, you get some sort of nugget out of it and
If not then at least there's some pretty colors on the on the page, but
I hope I hope everyone gets something out of it perfect
What we're going to link that into the description on the youtube page
That was cleave T cleave TA plus CV better creator for the hammer betting network and owner of cleaveanalytics.com
I'm g stack George and this was 90 degrees
That's it for me another edition of 90 degrees is in the books
I want to thank my guest cleave TA plus CV better creator for the hammer betting network and owner of cleave analytics
I also want to thank the sponsors of this show
pinnacle and bet stamp and my producer Jason Cooper
Thanks for listening do me a favor before you go like the content subscribe share and comment
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