Episode 116: 'G-Stack' George Tsilfidis Joins for a Discussion

On this week's episode of Circles Off, I'm joined in studio by Gstack George. He's gonna break down His history as a better and how he got to be the host of 90 degrees right here on the Circles Off channel Also, we're gonna discuss this new bet pod ratings account on Twitter how it's rating who it might be and of course a bet bash recap I was there just over a week ago. We'll discuss all that my experience there all that and more this week Circles Off starts now Come on, let's go welcome to Circles Off episode number 116 right here on the Hammer betting network I'm Rob Pizzola joined by Gstack George. Thank you for having no problem a lot of people might be wondering no Johnny today Johnny's one of the hardest working guys. I actually know I say that in all seriousness and truth He's recharging his batteries before football season And we will have him back in the near future to do episodes But who better than George to have in studio here? I think we've gotten some commentary George in the past about people not knowing who you are Your story being a little bit mysterious. So we're gonna get to that today, but as usual with Circles off we do start with the numbers number 16 I have a very old One of the first jerseys I ever got. Okay A Vinnie test of Erdi number 16 jersey. We are we are born on the exact same day in the exact same year Like one hospital apart basically. Yeah, yeah, it's it's very interesting how just like things come together But I remember the Monday night miracle from my youth like it was yesterday So do I you remember the same game? Yeah That game taught me the greatest lesson of life that the game is not over until you get to triple zero And that was the that put a scar on me forever And I will never celebrate until the game is officially done triple zeros No matter how big the lead that game early in my life taught me that lesson So I had to look it up to make sure that I actually remembered it correctly But it was 34th quarter points. Yes from the New York Jets the Jets and Dolphins were like in a I think they're battling for the AFC East that year So it was actually a really big game But the the funniest thing about the game are like the quotes over the course of the game from the commentators about it being over I think Arnold Schwarzenegger was on that broadcast and he actually predicted that the Jets would come back Yeah, of course he did and of course I obviously there's it's a no no lose situation at that point But they actually did come back and I remember I did not I got a Vinnie test of Erdi jersey after that game Why did you make money on it or you became a fan? I was just like I was like always a Cowboys fan But obviously the Italian roots Vinnie test a version to use like a guy that I wanted to cheer for as well So that was that was just like one of the first jersey I don't even know what happened to add jersey at some point I'm sure my dad just tossed it. Oh he left it at my parents else when I moved out and it's just in somewhere So hopefully someone has it. I have a buddy who does that He whenever he bets a future He buys a jersey of that team and he wants like he adopts them as his team and he rides it all the way And he's got the jersey. He's like I'm in the mode man. Yeah, I mean that that's I've never been a jersey's guy By the way same even when I was young Part of them was like I This is like whatever this is me just stating what I like tighter fitting clothing I'm like a skinny guy. I've always kind of like that on like loose fitting clothing and I've always been skinny skinny You just can't find like tighter fitting jerseys. It's not what jerseys are. They're meant to have stuff on underneath jerseys don't fit for our body types Rob everybody in the middle Are enjoying it, but you and I were left out of the jersey game for sure Joe Montana famous number 16 as well I remember Pat Lafontein as a 16 and I only bring that up because Rick Jennerette who is actually one of my favorite hockey Broadcast not just hockey broadcasters of all time They're like broadcasters recently passed away with some of like the most memorable calls But one of them being like the La La La La Fontein again. I can't really do it justice But I think that's one of the best calls in the history of sports. I got one for you. What's the classic locker room guys having a hack in the dart and halftime Len Dawson He was 16 and he was hacking the dart in the middle of the in the locker room at halftime I go that's my guy right there It's the classic Mario Belatelli as well from the Italian national team. You'd be doing a disservice He didn't say Darcy Tucker Darcy Tucker for the leap for the Leafs fan base for sure Jake Plummer was another 16 that I recall Them like most app everyone always thought like Plummer had like this big upside He was gonna turn into something and he just he just never really did. He's exciting to watch though for a while But probably because he he must have won in one year where he threw like 25 interception Yeah, he had chaos to his game that that scramble around like the play action like roll out to the right He's at downfield and just like pray something happen. You know who could be like that Then I'm not you know being hyperbolic because I watched it last night But Sam Howe's got a little bit of chaos to his game where scramble around make something happen good or bad Doc Goodin wore a 16 for the Metz and the reason I remember him is the famous story that he was so High during the world series parade. He never actually made it. He was he was after they won He went to a drug dealers house to do some hardcore drugs and he ends up watching the world series parade high around a bunch of People doing drugs and I'm like that when I saw his 30 for 30 was one of the craziest stories That is a pretty crazy story. I didn't know any of that at all I think we filled our quota of numbers for Joey Kinesh who asks for us to do this on a weekly basis I know he's messaged before and told me it's oh damn. I'm in his bad book now his favorite segment is Listening to us just randomly rhyme off players that we can remember that war that number of the episode We're going to get into Georgia's background But before we do I do want to remind you that pinnacle is the world sharpest sportsbook and available to betters in Ontario We often preached line shopping here on circles off. I think that's one of the most critical aspects to betting I would never consider betting without pinnacle being one of my sportsbook accounts Because of the everyday competitive odds that they have that smart that pinnacle Your trusted sportsbook and use code hammer when signing up. It does help us support us here at circles off again Use code hammer when you sign up to pinnacle. You must be 19 plus Not available in the US Licensed in Ontario and as always of course, please play responsibly All right, George. We're going to get into it here a few weeks ago It's I guess more than a month ago. We had this account start up on Twitter BPR yeah at bet pod ratings Which is taken the Twitterverse by storm and what bet pod ratings is we're going to get into this a little bit later into the episode But someone we don't know who I have my suspicions. We'll talk about that a little bit But someone who's reviewing sports betting podcasts out there and typically they give a brief summary of the podcast Then a rating and then a yes or no at the end That might be the giveaway as to as to who it could be but on august for august first Hate to throw you under the bus here. I'm just reading it quote for quote go for it It was your interview with captain jack right here on the circles off channel and You can get that interview down below in the description if you do want to see it I personally thought it was a excellent interview. Thank you, but it got a three out of ten in a no rating Specifically though poor interviewing by gsg. Oh wow Who's actual source of income remains unclear So We we have to clear this up for people yeah We brought you on to 90 degrees replacing Kevin Davis who could no longer do the show What's the background on g stack George? How did you get involved in sports betting? It's a long story and it's riddled with failure all around all along the way and I'll take you back to the beginning But I want to tell you this was by design when I interview I like to give a piece of me, but I don't like to reveal my story Like I had a podcast before joining 90 degrees and doing On this circles off channel called the Monday grind And they didn't release episodes on Monday So people always like what the hell does that even mean right at but it was describing something A process that I go through every one day during football season But I like to give my a piece of me in spurts and make it about the guests I'm trying to make them look good. I'm the point guard I'm the the head coach to make them look like the star So that's by design and and I'll get into all of that in a bit But my journey starts off like anybody in Ontario or Toronto my first exposure to sports betting is something called pro line The ontarially lottery gaming corporation betting was legal for us But you had to do it at convenience stores and play through a site called pro line And they made you parlay three outcomes at once huge house edge But you didn't know any better. You thought this was what sports betting was And I had competed and there was a bar in the e-circ area called Detroit And they had other bars in the area that also worked for them and they had a spread competition where You made a pick for every single spread you gave the bar your money And there was a part of that that went to a giant pool at the end But there was weekly payouts based on who did the best So that was my exposure to sports betting. It's parlay's through pro line I don't even know a single Outcome that you can bet on I don't know any of that stuff and then someone says to me Hey, you know, there's these things like called offshore's Where you can bet individual stuff. Yeah, so the first book I ever had was sports interaction He recommended it to me. He goes it's it's in Quebec somewhere That was my first time I ever It wasn't Quebec somewhere. I was on the native reserve to get around the the rules Yeah, yeah, and I believe they still operate but he said to me it was a new world So first of all, I never had the online experience where you're You know sending money over I think I was using insta debit at the time to get money in and I'm like Oh, you can bet individual games, but oh the payouts are not very good I'm not even getting paid out as much as I'm betting because I'm used to parlaying and right and the bigger concept so That was my first experience Ended up betting never really took a full interest to it often on life goes on And then the next phase of my life is I get bookie a pph in Toronto. There was this famous book called platinum sports book and underground local sports book and they would throw like extravagant super bowl parties and would Did you go to the parties? Yes, I must have seen you at some of them. Yes, that was probably there for a half I was there for All the parties until the year that it got rated which was the Baltimore and San Francisco lights out brother brother Bull that was the year it got rated that was the first one that I'd for some reason I couldn't go to I don't remember the exact story. I watched the Super Bowl I remember where I watched that Super Bowl But I couldn't go to that party and I was just getting texts off the hook of like great thing great You know yeah great you didn't come this year. They got escorted at halftime too So I had buddies that were there. They said we had to then go find a bar Last minute and Super Bowl and everywhere's pack to go find and watch the rest of this game now Because of the delay because of the halftime show of Beyonce and the light outage They actually didn't miss the game right so it was it was very odd that whole Super Bowl The the comeback where where like Baltimore betters must have been sick to their stomach with that delay like everything about it So that year I started The year before was the giants and the patriots in the in the Super Bowl Wasn't the undefeated season it was the rematch four years later right so I start getting into betting that year And then again, I'm making mistakes because I learned that hey I can find out what the public is betting on and I can fade the public I used to type in public betting into Google and there was a website I think the spread or something and they used to give you the graphs the circle graphs. Yeah, yeah and A buddy was telling me you know reverse line movement and you know all this good stuff and I'm like I'm a pro now I think I know what I'm doing So I'm learning I'm betting. I'm actually doing not bad. I Learned now a lot of it was just luck. Yeah, but one thing I like to do was I'm I'm very um What's the word I'm looking I'm contrarian by nature. Yeah, I like to think differently than than people I think that's actually a good trait to have in sports betting Being contrarian by nature doesn't mean that you have to go against what the public is thinking or doing on everything But thinking in a different way. I think it's generally healthy exactly so when People were doubting the giants going into the air and I'll tell you the inspiration for it I mentioned it on the Drew Dinsik podcast, but If you remember like the giants had won the Super Bowl four years earlier and they had a season where they were like 13 and 0 and then it just unraveled. I think plaques will coberus got hurt So there was the markings of a good team But the market didn't view them as a good team the next year and I said why they still have Everything that they did that got them to the Super Bowl the year before They had some decent weapons. That was the emergence of Victor Cruz if you remember that year I'm a Cowboys fan now you unfortunately remember that I'm gonna tell you story about the Cowboys December 11th played the giants on Sunday night football and why that's all relevant to me in us in in a minute So I remember the giants have this really good D-line before it was Michael Strann But they always had this like they had Oceomaniara and Justin Tuck and then Jason Pierre Paul like they were a factory They understood how to the blueprint on how to build a defense that could win If you can get a pass rush with your four defensive lineman It takes a lot of stress off of your secondary and it allows your linebackers or extra corners to fill in those gaps So the best thing in football the biggest advantage is having an elite four-man pass rush It allows you to clog up passing lanes So I understood this concept even though I wasn't fully understanding of how to bet professionally So I had some football instincts and I remember reading a story and I told Drew Drew didn't never heard this story But it was the St. Louis Cardinals fan who bet them to win the World Series a few months Out of the playoffs, okay, when they were like 18 games back or something it was inconceivable at 999 to one and he bet $250. I got the numbers wrong with Drew I thought he became a millionaire, but he bet $250 ends up winning a quarter million dollars I got inspired I said, you know what I just want to win once in my life and feel like I want some big money So entering the season the giants are like 30 to one or 35 to one end up putting like a thousand dollars on it at this point. I'm selling cars. I'm making good money And I make this bet because I go I want the giants to win I go if they win I want to feel good I want to feel as good as this guy in St. Louis and and get the glory and and feel like you're some sort of hero So the season progresses and the giants are showing some good traits But they're not playing that they're not playing out the gate a strong But Victor Cruz is picking it up. They've got a dynamic offense. They're like four and three About 50 to one and then I bet like another 200 bucks paid a 10 grand At 50 to one So now I'm going to win 45 grand at this point. Yep. So now it's week 14 or 15 it's December 11th. I remember it because my best friend's daughter Was born December 11th, which happens to be one day before I was yeah, so I'm at her birthday party and I see the giants are playing Dallas Sunday nighter and Giants are 72 to one to win the Super Bowl now and the reason is is because they are out of like They're not even leaving division and you can't make it in as a wildcard that year from the NFC East But I said they're playing Dallas tonight. If they beat Dallas in the Sunday nighter Then all of a sudden 72 to one is is crazy because you're gonna have a division leader Entering the playoffs and then you got a home game and you never know what happens from there So I bet $100 more So now like the grand total is like $52,000. I've got $1,300 laid out They end up winning that game and it was like crazy come back Tight game they end up winning it and I remember the whole playoff run They play Atlanta first game Dominate them Atlanta scores two points on the safety Yeah, I remember that one Next game they play the Green Bay Packers in Lambo and if you remember a team next caught a Half-time Hill Mary. Yes, I remember everything about it. And then the NFC championship game they play San Francisco and it was like the fumble Return and over time everything like the whole run was miraculous. Yeah, now here's the thing I don't know what I'm doing yet. I think I do But I start to believe in something called fate. Yeah, I go this is fate. I love the mannings to this day I still maintain paint manning was better than Tom Brady. I just peak. We can get into that. Yes I'm totally in agreement with you. Yes. We are probably in the vast vast minority Yes, peak levels Manning was better than break. I don't know if it's the baitable. I will die on this hill It's same was I'll if I'm the last person on earth that believes it. It doesn't matter But that's so I have an attachment to the manning brothers And it's also a double like f you because Eli's beating Tom to get there So it's the Super Bowl and now I'm this kid with $1,300 worth of futures that pays over 50 g's I've never won anything big in my life And this is on platinum So the word gets around town in the in the Danforth area This crazy kid has this money on futures and he refuses to to hedge first of all The Patriots were big favorites. So hedging was like a fool's errand, right? Yeah, of course So I'm like listen, I'm just gonna ride it. I believe in fate. They did it four years ago I think they can get it done That game happens And I remember everything everything about it because I've got pictures with all my boys there My buddy has a futon and we're watching the game the His daughter and I told you it was her birthday her birthday one year one year old birthday The word in the final game and I've got this Eli Manning Jersey draped around my neck and we're watching the game and I'm nervous and she just all I feel is like two little hands on my back Wrapped up in the jersey and I'm like, oh my god. This is this is happening now My buddy knows 12 is my number. I was born on the 12th day of the 12th one We got the same stuff man my whole life. It's been 12 is my everywhere roulette 12 whatever it is And you can look this all up my buddy looks to me and goes guess where this drive is starting From the 12 yard line first plate Eli Manning Mario Manningham to the sideline. I go. Oh my god. This is happening So Rob the the game ends up happening they win and I think we had to sweat a Rob Grunkowski hell marry like just cuz You know, it's of course never be easy. No, so here's the here's the problem. I know I believe I'm a hero I'm a professional sports better. Yeah, I know how to win. I had a great run I was about to say and I'm sort of cut you off But this has a lot of like the problem gaming aspects associated with it, right? Yeah What your story reminds me very much of my own Minus the the big win sure it's just Thinking in terms of numbers like I remember or or fate or I remember betting against The red socks when they won the world series. They broke the curse of them. You know, yeah I thought that that curse was real. Yeah, like I bet against them They were the Yankees were up three nothing on them In the AL championship series and I'm like well This is it. I'm just gonna bet the Yankees Game four and if they lose I'm gonna double. So I'm Martin Gale. Yeah, all those and lost every one Then they got to the world series I knew that they were a million times better than the Cardinals. Yeah, but I'm still convinced myself the curse is real They're gonna lose and I'm betting the Cardinals. So anyway, sorry to interrupt but it does have like the the elements of And now the downfall is gonna happen because I'm the pro. I made money I know what reverse line movement is now. I can read the public betting percentages I am smarter than everybody and I quit my job And I say I'm gonna do this thing professionally First of all, I was scared that I wasn't gonna get paid by platinum. I remember That's a legitimate concern. I brought my cousin with me and I'm texting with the agent and I go Like I wanted to meet in as public during daytime as I can Uh, we're we're gonna meet on damn fourth, but he goes. I'm parked in the alley. Do you mind coming? I go? Okay me and my cousin This is it. I was like the good fellow scene with the hero Yeah, yeah, I go either getting paid or one of us is going away So we get in the guy's car and this freaking guy's counting the cash out and it was real to me I'm like, oh my god. I've never held this kind of money I texted everybody in my phone and I said hey drinks on me at legends This was my buddy's bar on the damn fourth Tuesday yet paid out on Tuesday I ended up spending like two grand at the bar that night, but it didn't matter It was just good vibes. I was a guy who believed in vibes right quit my job. I'm gonna do this I'm a pro nobody can tell me anything And then all the bad stuff happened. I understand I learned about the variance of sports betting and The coin flips and when you have no edge and betting late and everything I was doing all the wrong things And I'm betting parles because now I've got ego And I'm a great better. So I'm bombing everything the other thing nobody taught me about life is when you don't work a job Your board during the day. Oh, yeah, so nothing to do so now rob I'm spending money during the day to keep myself entertained So the money's even going faster Maybe within two months I lost everything in fact I lost Everything I had saved up before none from sports betting and I fell into a dark depression and I would go to the bar every day and drink And my uncle probably doesn't listen to these podcasts, but He actually like saved my life in that moment because I was too proud to go back to my old job Which I was good at. I was a very good car salesman. Yeah I was too proud to show everybody I failed yeah, and just came into the bar and he said hey What are you doing here? I'm like I'm just having a couple drinks and he's like I'm just here with a business partner But I'll be done in about half an hour. Let's have a drink So we're talking and I don't know why and I usually hide this stuff and hold it back I was just able to humble myself at that moment and said hey, I'm in a really bad spot mentally financially And uncle said hey, he's a home builder one of the Most successful ones in the city said why don't you come work for me? Yeah, I did it for two months I realized I hate construction. Oh, yeah, I did it for a summer in high school and I don't think never These hands are not born to construct anything really yes, but it got me back on my feet financially I sucked it up. I went back to the dealership. I worked at and at that moment rob I put gambling away forever I said, you know what that was a scary moment in life. I got all the thrills of the victory and all the like the sinking feeling of losing everything and I said I'll never do it again And I've changed my life at this point I said, you know what? I don't want to sell cars anymore. This was after another year working there I said, but I want to get into media and broadcasting so I go back to school I go to Humber to learn how to become a broadcaster. I do the broadcast journalism program at Humber College I want it to be Bob McCown and I want it to be the guy in the mic And then I learned a year into my program that the fastest way into the industry is As a producer, so I said, okay, I'll be a producer. I got a job off for a news talk I'm happy with my new life. I'm not even thinking of sports betting like I dabble here and there. Yeah, but nothing nothing serious Then I meet somebody who changes my whole outlook An understanding of betting And I'm telling him my story and he's like, okay, okay, he was Here's what you actually have to understand about sports betting. It's a market And he started to like film film my head with words that I've never heard before like Get gaining an edge and telling me about odd screens. I never knew this world. Yeah At that point, I'm fascinated I'm one of those guys that if I get an idea in my head I'm going to pursue it. Yeah, like I'm going to drop something like sidebar here, but I liked rap for a while. Okay. I made an album I got in the radio. Oh god. We need to hear that one. I might have to use it for the intro track for 90 degrees going forward I battle wrapped on king of the dot the second biggest battle league And I have a video on YouTube with 250,000 views. Okay, and I only say this to tell you this is the kind of person I am right when I get an idea in my head I'm going to push it like that's how that's how I operate. I think this is a I honestly think that's a very common trait for successful sports bettors because it's like Not settling for and it's always like got to be the best got to be the best and part of it is because you're competing in a market With all these other bettors you can't settle for just like being average exactly So I'm educating myself now. Now I'm reading like okay, what is and I start you know going through forums and start reading I get introduced to some media um End up learning from captain jack uh circles off spankies broadcast be better better is bet the process I start learning that this there's this whole new world to explore and how to do it And I taught myself uh through a ton of reading. I'm the type of guy that And during the pandemic whenever Something would release a medical journal. I actually read it because I wanted to understand what was in it So that When I'm having an argument with somebody and they're reading the surface points I can I talk and tell you what was in that medical journal because that's the way I'm I'm designed. I'm very curious So I'm learning about sports betting Uh, I'm doing well for a couple of years now um But I learned my lesson. I'm not gonna leave my job. I'm happy at News talk I'm making money and I was working the evening show So it allowed me to be on uh on screen until like a certain time and like once my show started Whatever I had to get off screen But it was seven p.m. My show started um Lovely lady barbed to julio was my first was my first host. I remember hearing her news updates So I see if our b1010 back in the day. Yeah, yeah, so that was uh my exposure and then um My cousin and I were also betting on something called pools in oil G And there's a real opportunity there because there's a weekly payout of like five six hundred thousand dollars every single week And you're not playing against the book. You're playing against a pool of players Yeah, they take their rake. Yeah, but the game could get the king could be meat I figured out a way to take advantage of the game where it's some boxing multiples. Yeah, so it's across different tickets Yeah, okay, so just to explain to the audience what the pools Um, game was you had to pick the winner of every single NFL game over the course of a week So you just go fill out a scratch card and say these teams are gonna win and it was five dollar fee If you wanted to box a game which meant take both outcomes of a game It would double the cost of the price uh uh uh that you had to pay So if you want a lot of people would box like sunday night and monday night football Because they didn't want to have to like deal with hedging or that or have a sweat So they'd box those games would be a twenty dollar ticket instead of a five dollar ticket But on one single ticket it only allowed you to box five games four games four games so eighty dollars. Yes What I figured out was if I take two tickets and spend eighty dollars on both tickets I can now eliminate a fifth game And if I bring in another 160 dollars, I can eliminate two games now. Yeah, right? So We didn't have a budget though at this point But we learned how to Identify how to eliminate games and we started mathing it like okay probability of teams winning The rest of the games on the board are there enough Upsets there where because we want like we've spent before $2,500 and $1,500 Yeah, no four hundred dollars So we've lost money doing it. So there's two dynamics, right? There's you want to spend enough money to eliminate enough games But you there has to be enough big spreads on the board that when upsets happen the payouts go up. Yep Totally agree with you. I mean uh So just getting into like this is just gent so again our paths overlap so quickly and we probably Because of we're born on the exact same day and we probably reached like very similar points in our life So I went through this exact same experience with the pool stuff where we you know me and a few friends one pool Probably four or five times never the huge payout which I was looking for yeah Sometimes we would win like 10k, which is nice Sometimes we would put in you know 2500 and we'd lose because But after we did it the first time we're like well, we're dummies. Why are we boxing? All these games that are a pick them and like I'm picking all the big spreads We should be actually doing the opposite yeah We should be trying to pick the games that are a pick them and boxing the bigger spreads And hoping that one of these under 14 point underdogs wins because if that happens then this ticket pays like Immediately pays like 100k because nobody has those outcomes Yeah, I'll actually do you want better? I don't even pick the pickups because I I believe If you pick three pickups, it actually be better off just putting the money into a book Right for 10k for three. So here's where it is Is a 12 game card you can't make money when there's only 12 games This one all the buys are happening pools doesn't include the Thursday night or because they want to get as much action up to Sunday morning So on a 12 game card there was like seven multi-digit spreads yep So me and my cousin and I we put 10 grand down and eliminate everything but one game Baltimore Baltimore is a 13 pay point favorite against Cincinnati and If you bet that 10k online, it would pay what? 1800 bucks. They're like minus 600 or something of that nature So as long as the pool ticket paid more than 11-8. Yep. We're way ahead. Yep Well chaos happened that week. Yeah, Baltimore won chaos happened. We made 100k And often outcome you'll never get that kind of markup because I don't play parles. Yeah I don't play futures that much and and when you do it's it's it's very hard To win a future and then let alone to make money pools offered an opportunity to blow up and grow your bankroll fast in a way that the average betting doesn't so 2019 comes and my cousin is like pushing. He's like listen We need to do this like we've been making money steadily for a few years and I said I'm not ready had a bad experience. I don't want to do this We entered that year and we I had a bankroll that was dedicated to the daily wagering for for football But also for pools something separate because you can't measure the ROI on pools It's very weird and stupid. Yeah, there's sit like a pesky tells the story on your podcast about how they lost for like 11 weeks before They went they hit the Hill Mary game, right? So you have to accept that there's gonna be four five weeks in roll Where you don't make money and you're wondering what the hell am I doing? Yep, so 2019 comes and it's week four and We end up and I remember everything about it I remember what the big upset was I remember all the games we had the big upset was Tampa Bay beat the Rams is a 12 point Underdog and at that point the Rams were three you know Fresh off a Super Bowl appearance everybody thought they were the best team in the world So we had that game boxed we had other upsets One the most amount of money I've ever won in one week ever And then the next week happened and we won a lot of money again And another week happened and we won a lot of money again And I don't want to give details of the money because A I don't want to come off like Simon Hunter and get attacked and everything and say you're full of shit And I have pictures and screenshots and I don't want to I don't ever want to post it I could I could do it and say hey, let me start you don't have you I know we interviewed China maniac a few weeks back as well, and you know people just did Honestly didn't believe the story he was selling and he had to come on Twitter afterwards and post like all these screenshots It is what it I didn't want to do it and frankly like I have a little bit more tack than that And I don't care to ever I'm not trying to be a tout I don't care about that stuff if you think I'm not a good gambler that your business I don't care. I make money Uh, I showed you some stuff just to show hey Rob Uh, this is real. This is real, right? So 2019 ends up being a fantastic here all the way through And about halfway through I had been getting hounded by an ex salesman at Bellsmeat Bell Media Who wanted to start up his own media company and he goes I want you because at that point at news talk I had risen to the ranks of being like the best producer at news talk on the biggest show in the drive time hour And he said I want you to help me design the stuff and I said you know what I'm a little unhappy right now at the place I've peaked where I am and I'm very aware of when there's no more room for growth I've been there five years. I said it's it my boss is not going to step aside to give me his seat Yep, and that's the only seat that I want that's next and I go that's not going to happen Uh, now of a sudden my bankroll literally literally rob and this again This is I don't want people to say oh yeah bullshit you double your bankroll in one year We more than doubled our bankroll in that in that year Well, when you're plet when you're playing like for people that don't want to believe that I mean pools is essentially parlay betting in a sense, right? You're just stacking all these combinations together and it's gonna You know pay a larger amount, but when you are betting that type of style It's much easier for you to you know threefold tenfold your bankroll In a short period of time. It's also much easier for you to lose consistently because the hold is higher on a lot of those markets And in 2020 there was the upsets weren't happening right because yeah, I'll tell you a game specifically in a sorry I like the sidebar I like to chat do you remember Houston versus New England 2020 and you'll remember it once I jog your memory But it's Davis Moses a rookie and I was like bill balachik doesn't lose the rook. I remember the game clearly and I remember doing a Parascope that morning. Yeah, where I specifically probably talked about that because the Patriots had four offensive linemen out It was covid right that that I so I actually I'm confusing it. I actually bet the Texans that game. Yes. Yes. Don't I did too. Okay, so follow me here, right? Four offensive linemen out for New England never like this doesn't happen four starters now the market doesn't account for that They they can understand the fantasy guys in the quarterback At that time I would say the market was a little bit slow not the betting market the Public because you got to remember when I play pools. I'm not playing against There are sharps, but the majority I'm playing against very public better said money. I would yes So Houston's winning the whole game leading by two scores And then like they punt the ball off the guys back and like so a lot and what I learned was a lot of upsets didn't hold in 2020 because It's one thing to catch a team off guard And if you have a home crowd that can energize you and get you to the finishing line But eventually if you play long enough the better teams win. Yep, right? It's the reason why it's harder to upset in the NBA in a seven game series because you catch a team off guard once in the NFL and their lights are out But set through seven games the stronger team will eventually pull themselves through yeah So in covid a lot of these teams didn't close out their wins. So the payouts were not good in pools in 2020 Anyways, this is a long long side bar 2019 I said, you know what here's the time We've had success. I'm unhappy in news talk this guy wants to pay me to help me help blow up his media company So it was a good payday for me. Yeah, I said that was the moment. I was finally ready. I had money For bankroll. I had investments in life. I had income coming in not just from news talk 1010 So now my job was like my third best source of income. Yep, and that was the moment. I'm like, okay, here's the time I step away from my job and now I'm a professional better I bet football. I don't bet other stuff because I still believe in quality of life. I don't want to live on a screen all the time. Fair enough. Yeah I also football is a big enough liquid market and I can get enough money down that I can make my living in a six month window and enjoy the other aspects of life But I'm retired. I'm retired from Living and here's the downside. It's COVID. I came to go on vacation because that was my plan March to March to June every year. I was like, I'm just gonna go to Greece for two months and hit the Caribbean So that aspect of life changed. So now I'm bored two years of doing this. I'm bored. I'm like, okay I still love media because I wanted to get into media and I go I see you guys You guys were my favorite podcast even and I told you guys this long before I ever joined the team And I said you can do educational content. You can tell stories You can help the person like me in 2011 who thought that reverse line movement and public betting mattered And you don't have to tell yourself you don't have to show yourself. I'm a big winner Let me show you my futures ticket and some people do that. I don't disparage. That's your choice It's just not my style. I also have been taught in life. Don't show people How much you make because it creates It puts eyes on on what you're doing operate and silence make your money be happy So I'm bored and I'll tell you the moment that I decided I want to do media Steve Fezick and I actually like Steve Fezick a lot of people don't I I love his brand of media I think on Twitter. He's insufferable, but that's part of the game He's talking to Ross Tucker and he's telling him about an edge and preseason He said you should be laying money lines instead of minus one and a half and two's because One point is actually a key number in preseason and this was the reasoning He said because coaches don't want to go to overtime. That's what he said Good edge right reasoning Wrong wrong information There is no overtime, right It's not that they're trying to avoid overtime. There is there's no overtime So I said, you know what there's I'm a very sharp guy and I read all the rules and I like there There's the void where I can come in with some educational stuff But I can also like give the correct information When people are talking about player names and yeah, that guy is key for them I mean, they don't know the name. Yeah stuff irks me when I as a listener. I'm like no, I know the name I want to I should be on that part to correct the record That's how I end up getting an immediate that's my story Full of failure took a long time to get to success Very similar to mine Little bit of differences along the way. I got into media first. That was like my first exposure Didn't never never graduated from university because I just got a full-time job offer in sports media I was a huge sports fan when I was 20 years old. I was like yeah, this is no brainer Like I this was never even a career option for me now. It is I'm gonna do this And that kind of led me down the path of oh thinking I'm like this is gonna be this great sports better as well Didn't work out that way, but yeah, we share a lot of of that For the for the people out there now how's it going for you the past couple years when you say that you're Are you still betting exclusively NFL? Are you doing other sports? I bet boxing and I bet political events but Boxing doesn't come around that often And unless it's the big big fights. Yeah, you're not getting down liquidity Political events are even more rare. It's just the humongous edge that I and I enjoy it I'll tell you something watch an election night when you have money on it. Yes And also in that race that you don't care about the 48th Senator in North Dakota That becomes very entertaining to watch and yeah, yeah call it call it and watching the numbers So from an entertainment perspective. I also have an edge the other stuff I got rid of the slot machine gambling. I love football. I love basketball. I love hockey. I'm a fan But I I don't know how to bet it and I don't want to learn how to bet it because I don't want to spend that kind of time commitment Fair enough I'm similar to you in that aspect people like why do you only bet football and hockey? I don't only bet football and hockey, but the other sports that I bet the origination comes from someone else entirely or its top down Slash team chasing whatever you want to call it. Yeah, so like yeah, it is what it is, but for bet pod ratings Who's you know, Georgia's actual source of income remained unclear up until now But it is now clear that he's still doing this for a living no other job No, that's it. That's it. You told me hey, let's come record this at 11 a.m. On a random day. I'm like yeah, okay Of course, I've got nothing else planned sure. Yeah, you want to record enough. Yeah, let's go when I book a guest I'm like what's your sketch? This is offseason. What's your schedule like? I'm very flexible I can work around your schedule. Yes Yeah, I'm sort of in the same boat except I have the businesses as well So it takes up a lot of my time and now I have like an addiction to golf Which stemmed because of the same thing that happened during COVID Couldn't really travel there is nothing to do places were closed would open up first golf courses. Oh, can I can I ask you Was netflix every Monday morning releasing the Jordan doc two parts at a time not like the sporting event of the week Because I know it was for me. Okay, it was for a lot of people but The way that I like to consume things is Wait for it all to come out and watch it all in one shot Yeah, but if you're waiting for it because you have other stuff to do. It's COVID. What else do you have to do? So but like I would have just watched other Series's or I would like I rewatch the sopranos like 14 times during COVID or whatever like that That's my kind of thing the only show The only shows that I've really ever watched week to week in my life Like post-streaming sure because be like when we were growing up There was no netflix so it was you had to tune in at you know appointment PM on Sunday night to watch the sopranos on HBO whatever and if you didn't do that You know you're out of luck. Yeah, some but one of my friends might have bit Literally videotape did and gave me a VHS like a watch at the next day, but aside from that You know There was no streaming now days with streaming they drop all these shows all at once an entire season whatever the only shows I've ever watched week to week since then are game of thrones and Succession where just I watched them on a weekly basis aside from that I just don't game of thrones mostly because if I didn't watch the episode live it's boiled. Yeah, 100 percent But he I would see stuff That what was the the Jordan documentary was the last dance. Yeah, and it was hashtag the last dance I just muted that hashtag on Twitter and I never saw this guy So I but it's a doc how much can they spoil that well of course. I know the whole Jordan Yeah, I know I know the flu game, you know, I knew that he was a better. Yeah, I've heard all the stuff But it was very entertaining, but yeah, I mean I I ex I exhausted all the streaming content How good are you when you watch shows because like for me it takes me like three seasons to figure out everybody's name Yep, so uh game of thrones I got into late like around season five And I remember having a group chat with my buddies and they love it because I'm like late watching the show so they They're very good at not spoiling it and I'm like catching up with them and like for the first three seasons is like Hey, remember the guy who killed the big guy with the right or the guy who's banging his sister like that I didn't know nobody's names until like the third season. I'm like, okay. Okay. You've said it enough times I figured it out. So I never watched the first season of Game of Thrones live I watched it all in one day with my wife after the fact and Google images was my friend because I would get to like the third episode. They'd say a name I'd be like I have no idea who the fuck this is. Yeah, yeah, but Google image. I'm like, okay I know who this is or whatever So Google images through the entire first season was how I got through at the end of season one I read all the books between season one and season two. So I had a very good Foundation for it the rest of the way, but I could see how it would have been Extremely confusing. Yeah, especially characters And a lot of them we looked the same like similar name to similar names and they're all wearing the same clothing And from this family and and if you start throwing in time jumps I'm all the way confused about what the hell's going on. Yes, totally Really quickly here if you've enjoyed the content here on circles off make sure you do smash that like button, but also Subscribe to the channel set notifications going forwards the last 28 days 53.2% of the views in the last 28 days are from people who are not subscribed And of that 53% I can see a lot of you came back and watched a second video as well and a third video. So If you're not subscribed just quickly hit that subscribe button It does help us monetize the channel helps people find our content on YouTube and we can continue to grow continue to do these episodes Just a no-brainer if you do enjoy the content subscribe if you're listening in audio form Just rate and review five stars or just read and review whatever you really think of it Hopefully you think it's a five-star podcast and you rate and review it that way But honestly we do value the feedback and that's what I want to get to with the next topic here Which is I guess a form of feedback in the bet pod ratings Twitter accounts So I let the show with it and kind of intro to you With that as well But this thing is emerged now It's not a huge following but I'd say definitely people are aware of it all together now. Yeah, and I'm curious what your take is on the account and like how it personally affects you if it does in any way When you see the reviews of your podcast. All right. So first of all, I got a very thick skin. You can't offend me There's two things. I'm too happy in life to let anybody say anything to bring me down online The second thing is Nobody would ever repeat this stuff to my face. I'm very confident in in personal and face-to-face interactions and nobody would ever bring this kind of energy. So that being said The person is clearly smart and prefers sharp content and doesn't think much of me thinks Either he thinks I suck as an interviewer which Objectively, I'm a producer. I spend a lot of time in media. I don't believe that's true. I think I am good Maybe doesn't think I'm smart enough because I don't give enough of my takes but He clearly likes what I'm doing because he's never not finished my I shouldn't even say him because you know, it could be it could be a woman They've never not finished. I based off the tone of this account. I would I would lay minus 10,000 male Well, they've never not finished my stuff and the last two podcasts I did with sharp Clark and Joey canish even though I sucked up the joint and you know You got to avoid listening to my parts for the hour They enjoyed it enough to say hey, I would recommend it. It was entertaining Also though, but like that aside. They actually put me on to a pod that I never heard of Like they they gave a 10 out of 10 to Herala Bob on spanky be better better than I agree like that was my favorite episode I tell you Herala Bob was spankies best episode Shane 6b was bet the processes bet best episode and for you guys It's either Barry horse or Matt Trenhill one of those two episodes. Those are my two favorite episodes So he actually put me on to Matt Trenhill did another podcast give it a 10 out of 10 I'd never heard of it Because of it. I actually took a recommendation and I listened and I enjoyed it. So thank you very much I'm sorry that I let you down every episode And I'm trying I'm trying my best here. Just give me enough time I'm one of those guys that I eventually will grow on you, you know Eventually if you hear a song enough times You catch an ear warm for it. So I'm I'm hoping I turn it around Believe in me the account seems to like all the guests you have on but not you in particular. So I'm a good Selecting the guests the topics are good enough that I can make the guest Look good and talk about stuff that makes them smart and sound good I just got to do something of maybe maybe it's my face. Maybe they don't like my face I will try to change that for you. I like you Don't put much serious stock into it. I do literally value every piece of feedback regardless of what Whether or not it's coming from someone who likes me dislikes me There are you know, there's like a brief explanation in the in each Tweet or what's it called? What do they call now Zach posts posts in each post Of like why they like the episode or didn't and that's fair I think clearly this is someone who's a very sharp person just based off of the descriptions I clearly see some personal vendetta's against other people from this account Which is maybe a dead giveaway of who it was but you interviewed Chris Andrews. Okay And there was some like derogatory remarks about Chris Andrews in the review of that podcast That weren't about like his appearance is just like Chris Andrews like Boots winning sports betters or whatever like there's only a few people out there There are constantly harping on that. So maybe that's a little bit of a giveaway But Generally speaking, this is one person's opinion on things I like to crowdsource opinions for one and I'm very deep rooted in analytics. So For people out there that don't really know the amount of planning that goes into circles off and what we do I evaluate every single episode that we ever do Like over Evaluated like exhaust myself by going through metrics both in video and audio form Where did viewers drop off in this video that they also drop off on audio at the exact same time What topics tended to do well and others. So when you know, I look at an example like You know the Brad Powers interview that with air last week. Yeah, bet pod ratings gave it a 4 out of 10 As a recommendation Mostly CFB process talk unfortunately Brad Powers process isn't particularly interesting Grinding CFB year round pouring through box scores betting circa openers That's the the opinion of one person. Yes. Yes, but then I will go to the analytics And I'll look at the average watch time for that video relative to another guest and it's through the roof. Yeah, so for me I like to see it, but I'm never gonna put any stock into it like Maybe they might pick up on something that is a valuable piece of in you know feedback for me Rob repeatedly us or does this or does that and you know, but aside from that Yeah, I'm not gonna let it bother me or get to me. You know, you know, we have to understand is Like the super sharp community. They'll listen to our pods, but they represent like A very small segment of who the audience is As much as we want to think hey, we're catering to sharp better's the truth is it's a lot of guys who just want to get better Don't do it professionally and enjoy it from an entertaining perspective. So The loudest voices are often represented by like the smallest minority of 100% and that's a problem if we believe that stuff That stuff to be true like Twitter has a very loud Voice about opinions of things, but reality is Twitter's not real life So Twitter hates wrestling right they hate the creative direction that wrestling is heading in But they're breaking revenue records and sales and people are loving it because Twitter only represents A small segment of the audience and I think we have to remember that it might not be BPR's You know top his flavor of what he enjoys and that's totally cool I never I never be grudge a person for not liking what they don't like and liking what they do Content is how you choose to consume it. Totally agree with you there And listen like there's stuff that's true, but It's like I'll give an example right we did a we like to do Q&A episodes on circles off, right? and The bad pod ratings account will typically describe those as like low effort low effort Episode which is totally true. Yeah, it's a low effort episode But we've done so many Q&As now. I know how they perform analytically I know roughly how often we should do them It is low effort, but it also gives opportunity for viewers and listeners to like get feedback from us And participate in the discussion This is a pre-recorded podcast regularly. It's not like we're live and people are you know able to interact in real time So it gives people an opportunity to do that and people take the opportunity to do that So we'll continue doing those going forwards even though they're low effort It's not even low effort because they're still You know gathering the questions you want to know was a really low effort watch along content That's it. I have nothing to prepare. It's why it's my favorite. I know But here's the thing there's a sense of community and people enjoy it because one thing I learned is people like to watch With other people around it the experience is different So the guy who might think a Thursday night game is boring. He doesn't have any money on it Yeah, he might tune in and watch along with four people in here You know your opinion and feel like I'm in the room. I'm in a party. I'm watching the game That's low effort content From last season of all the content we did at the hammer the watch-along stuff was the most successful Oh, yeah generated the most viewership the most engagement Watchtime so obviously we're going to continue to do that going forwards announcement coming soon on what the football schedule is going to look On forward progress and on hammer HQ This year, but yeah overall. I'm interested in the cat. I honestly think it's kind of cool I would you know Probably don't have to take personal shots at people when you're reviewing a podcasting and just state your opinion as to why you liked it and didn't without constantly ragging on someone but Yeah, I think I think it's generally I'd like to see more of it and honestly I will say There is a correlation between this account tweeting Out episode reviews even for some older episodes that we've done and then people watching it within the next 12 hours So it's actually helping boost our views and listenership even on the ones where they review know So yeah, it it is what it is but overall interesting I've seen a lot of accusations some accusations were being thrown out at bet fashion at some people Uh, I think captain jack cue spanky's head trader Luke of being this account There's absolutely no way this could be Luke because Luke doesn't care about sports So why would be listening to all these sports betting caught podcasts about like the AFC East preview and whatever There's no way Luke and I are too busy betting lacrosse together anyways Yes, Zach is incredibly involved You know what I love you you've got this investigative journalism part where you want to find out who it is I'm the guy who like when you watch a documentary like you know the one on the missing plane in Malaysia Yes, I think he'll be three different theories. Yeah, one of those theories They could have excluded from the doc altogether. I'm one of those guys that each one. I'm like yeah, you're right This is the real one. I'm also like that so I have to be careful when watching those though the theory about them like Going under the plane and we're rerouting it with the laptops and like they could have just not include There was no reason to include that it was purely for TV. I'm disappointed. They didn't go with aliens I thought that that they could have got a fourth episode out of that series. Yes They could have for sure. So That bash was interesting Not only because people were being accused of being the bet pod ratings account Oh, by the way, there's a lot of people accusing Rufus at one point. This is not Rufus because Rufus is not mean spirited. So I know that it's not him, but somebody was saying oh yeah all the bet the process episodes are getting yeses and high ratings or whatever I mean, it's not Rufus. I can say that but Doesn't matter who it is, I guess as long as it as long as we continue to get traction from it And at least there's some positive interaction all around with it, but it's been Over a week now. I don't know action. I'm horrible with time Two weeks to the day this airs since for a bet bash yeah Yeah, it was an experience. You could have make it out this year. I bought the VIP ticket and uh, you know For issues that I don't care to get into I couldn't make it I want to take this from a perspective of what I wanted to get out of it And what I imagine it to be like and you tell me if I'm way off base and actually what you get out of it Um the speed networking thing that I would have gone just so I can get 10 new guests for the podcast Did you do the speed networking thing? I did um Who's the best most interesting person you matched with um, so I will say that And I'm gonna just speak candid by the way there's people out there that think like spanky pays me to say stuff about that This this absolutely does not happen if you actually want to know how cheap spanky is I was on one of the panels there and I still had to pay for the final party of the event That's a true story. He's not paying me anything to promote that bash So let's just make that explicitly clear The speed networking for me this year was a little bit more disappointing than last year. Okay, so last year I got paired with Um, it was 15 people I still think last year maybe it was 12 But don't remember the exact amount But I mostly didn't know of the people I got paired with last year I developed relationships with them that I'll probably you know I said probably 75% of them I communicated with over the course of the year This year I got 15 people But I know I knew a lot of them and now maybe this is my own fault for the way I filled out the form But like I got paired with pisky as one of them who I interviewed here on circles off and we chat pretty regularly I got paired with Thomas Viola from unabated who I chatted with a lot that week prior to that so my pairings weren't the best Um, the person that was most interesting would probably not be want not want me to say their own their name okay, but What I will say is that I learned especially through my pairings That I I knew that I've known for a long time that sports betting has largely shifted to like the top-down approach Yeah, okay, the majority of bettors who are trying to win now are all top-down. I don't want to say it's easy money, but there's like There's all almost a step-by-step guide in how you can win top-down Mm-hmm Most of the questions I got at networking three or four people were I started betting the last couple years. I'm doing really well I don't know how to scale. I want to figure out how to scale But what I learned and not only through these people, but other people in that room and just talking people at the conference Is there so many people out there who are just trying to scale? But they're doing top-down And it's hard yeah, it's very hard to do that and I almost think and I'm biased I'm a very biased person. I'm not sitting next to Johnny Johnny doesn't only do top-down by the way He does all sorts of betting originates his own UFC does whatever, but the pendulum has swung Like three or four years ago. It was everybody wanting to build their own models the like originate games And maybe a lot of those fizzled out, but that was like very prevalent Now it's you can't find people like that like there was no one there who wanted to have a conversation about Oh, I'm doing this for NFL and this for NHL or MLB or whatever. It was very very top-down. So Anyways, that was my experience in terms of the most interesting person It was I don't want to you know the conversations are sort of had. It's not like a You're dealing with a doctor or lawyer like just patient confidentiality Yeah I'm not the type of guy that wants to just share someone's personal information. Let's say he was doing top-down in a more interesting way Than I had previously thought And not only did I talk to him for like the seven minutes that we had at speed networking I talked to him probably for a few hours afterwards. Oh, that's great, but I met Jill Brennan who's partnered with Adam Bjorn now on this prime sports. Yeah Book that they're opening up I met I met a lot of good people like it was just but too many familiar faces I would say I think the experience for you is different because Everybody knows or recognizes you are at least a good portion of the audience versus someone That isn't known and you both get to learn about each other whereas there's a bit of a dynamic We're like, okay, they want to know about you. They're curious. Yeah, so like like I think you when you can fill out the speed networking form You have You have some input into who you're going to get paired with okay, so maybe I made it too specific but definitely I think a lot of people that I got paired with were looking for like a mentor in some way or looking for advice And I'm totally fine with that because I my motivations from that bash are very different than a lot of people's right I'm at a point in my betting where And you know, I know whatever this comes across however it comes across but like I don't really need help with liquidity You know, I bet major market NFL NHL. It's pretty easy for me to get down. There's no appetite Like there's no shortage of people that are don't want to work with me on that stuff. Yeah I'm there to have a good time and like network and just meet people and see what's going on in the space like they're I'm going out to bet bash more for a party. Yeah, that that I would go for a party Be to get guests for the future show and three I'm generally curious I'm a curious person I like a guy if you walk on public transportation and there's 40 people on the bus Everyone has a unique story. Yeah, and everyone can at least do one great episode telling you about their life I truly believe that I have a general curiosity about people my favorite thing is Cracking a bottle of red wine and having a conversation with somebody for an hour or two hours and getting lost in that conversation And actually wanting to learn about that person I also would not have wanted to go out there to make business connections and I'm fine with my operation Yeah, and the money I make and the money that I can get down so that wouldn't have been my main driver either There are a few connections that I made and this like I honestly again I would recommend the the conference to anyone the price point this year was like 800 dollars ish or so you got to pay your way out there and and you know your combination So it's not cheap, but if you're serious about sports betting I would be there now listen again. There's gonna be other people. There's other successful sports betters out there That I know through Twitter that that didn't show up. They don't want to go because they they want to remain anonymous They want to they don't need to help like in getting down their operations good to each their own But I have a great time Meet you know see a lot of similar faces every year that I would never see otherwise. Yeah, the Mike Craig's of right-angle sports Who I love Chris Bruno who you know I'm shooting crafts with the guy to like six in the morning every night and having a blast Captain Jack I don't see in person like all these people. I don't see we just we just interact online Okay, that was two of my questions is first who Who who did you want to see that you had never met before and who did you want to see from You know them and you just like you know what I like this guy good vibes. I haven't seen him in a while Would love I can't wait to see him when I when I get out there The person that I wanted to see that I've never met before was Darren Revelle I'm not even joking. Why I just wanted to be able to to converse with him Outside of the panel to let him know like our I was wondering if he was aware of our history Of like why he blocked me on Twitter Which I thought was like honestly just like uh You can block whoever you want Wait, we don't know for the future. We don't know in the future But as of now you can block whoever you want and to each their own You know, there's there's some people that I interact with or that like you know they are They'll just block anyone that's negative comments whatever you do have you however you want but I just wanted to chat with him Obviously because you're pretty polarizing character, but also because Yeah, I just wanted to see if the real-life persona matches the Twitter persona sure So that's that I'll talk about the panel In brief in terms of meeting up with people It's it's definitely a couple of the right angle sports guys Specifically Mike Craig and Jeff who who runs the the discorders at least very active in the discord for them as well But those are guys that I just always have a a good time with like they're down to earth. Yeah people How much how much what percentage of the conversations are about betting versus non-bending because that I used to work in media And the one thing I hated or or you know, I had connections in politics I hated the discussions about media and about politics if like we do that at work, man I want to I want to just hang with you and not talk about that stuff It was a lot of betting discussion. There was it would there was a I mean It's hard to say what the exact split was but it is a betting conference people are there You know when you introduce yourself to someone A lot of times you just wanted to let people know like who you are What you do so most of the conversation starters are are betting sure But there was I mean the people that you knew the people that you know it's still it still is betting like it's like How are things going how is the last year can I help you out in any way you know That's always the starting point and then you get into other stuff typically where your hobbies all overlap So in some cases golf some cases poker car wouldn't you know whatever um But it is it is still a lot of betting talk I said Revelle as one of the people I wanted to meet two of the other ones were People that I've interacted with but never met in person Both of who we interviewed here on circles off one was um telemicus model I won't give out his real name. I'm not sure if we aired it on the pod But um he since that pod as like graduated into a professional betting now His college basketball model which he's with he's doing some stuff with Rufus So telemicus model great guy way taller than I expected. I don't know why I mentioned that but you know You're way taller than I expected so for you to say that person's like it's like yeah, he towers over me I'm just over six feet uh, he and by the way I got that exact same feedback in public as well. It's like oh, I always pictured you'd be a shorter guy I always thought Johnny was taller than you. I don't know why but when I saw it I'm like oh Rob's actually tall. I don't know that six feet and a little bit and then Clive Bixby as well Who is part of the hammer we do forward progress together Sunday nights during the NFL season Uh, but I'd never met him in person. So we had a good day at stadium swim um Did you do the scavenger hunt because when I was talking to Kevin and he's like oh, I can't wait for the scavenger hunt He's like what about you and I'm and I'm thinking of myself I can't think of an event that I Less want to do then I'm a big fat guy and I'm not doing 11 a um in Vegas and that heat Trying to ride around his split 10k six ways. I had no interest in that event at all So I actually think I could be wrong. I actually think it started at 9 a.m. Not 11 a.m. Okay, so Again here open book. I'm all about honesty and transparency. I'm gonna just share these conversations So I think candidly spanky was concerned that he wasn't gonna have enough people who were interested in the scavenger hunt So he was really appealing to my like competitive nature The fact that I love puzzle like I do escape rooms with my wife It's like a passion of ours. We love that type of stuff So he was really appealing to that of like you got to do it as soon as people see you do it like they'll join or whatever But on the sign-up day there was actually so many people signing up that I'm like I'm not you know, we have an open bar the night before sure. I'm going to play Crap's afterwards. I can tell myself to go to bed at two o'clock It's not gonna happen. Yeah, because I'm around people that I I enjoy spending time with Captain Jack came by that night and had like an epic like table was so cold And then this guy rolled for like 40 minutes. It was it was incredible And I was up to like 630 in the morning Yeah, and I'm like I'm not gonna go sleep for two hours and do the scavenger hunt. So I I slept got back down to At lunch at circa at Saginaw's at like 12 o'clock Then I went to the circus sportsbook I got to see all the groups coming in from the scavenger hunt. So basically the winning team The way you won is you had to play a specific ticket at the circus sportsbook and then go and hand it to Spanky's Accounts guy Mike got it who I will not call Chinese Mike anymore because he's not even Chinese Vietnamese Mike Yeah, yeah, anyways You had to go give him a ticket and like whoever did that one So as groups were coming through the sportsbook they would see me there And they were like kind of running their logic by me But I noticed the first like three or four groups all had different Ticket numbers like oh yeah, I'm gonna play six dollars on this Eagles preseason game tonight One groups like I'm we're playing 99 dollars on week one under For the Eagles game. So I was like I honestly have no idea who could win But they were all walking me through their logic. This is a very intricate Like puzzle and they had to go all over the place one group ended up somehow at like the penitentiary or the jay Like they went so far off grid they ended up at like a jail And Spanky had to call them and be like no you guys are in the wrong spot like leave there type of thing But I didn't do it. I honestly regret not doing it really because I think I would have done well and Just because you wanted to win their competitive nature kicks in plus EV analytics team one And there was like a camaraderie amongst the the team. It was kind of cool I like it's it's not even like everybody split what I everyone got like took home like 2k Each as part of that team It's not it's not the money obvious or anything. Oh, they they free rolled bet bash Yeah, 100% I mean they paid for their trip, but I kind of regret it because I just wanted to see what it was like a little bit more and But then again Do what I go back in time and go to sleep at two o'clock No, I was playing perhaps with you know a bunch of of bet bash attendees I wouldn't I wouldn't change that all right the panels that's the The money and the one that you were specifically on With Jeff Benson Darren Rovell There's two other gentlemen as well as the physics the physics that's right who replaced last minute scratch Joey Kanish Which some people weren't too happy about and they share a pen as well Yeah, so this panel panel day comes I meet Rovell in the hall he's staying on the same floor as me at circa. I meet him at the elevator To go downstairs Introduce myself Are you Rapazola? Yes, he says to me how contentious is this going to get And I'm like I have zero intent on making this contentious like I'm not I told them I'm like I'm not a Twitter troll right I'm I'm not the guy that's gonna I told them like you got a worry about Jeff Benson at circa because he's gonna he will speak like He to each their own and I actually actually really liked that about Jeff Benson How he's very just outspoken speaks his mind, but I'm like I'm not gonna be that guy I'm just gonna state my point of view and I'm sure that our points of view will not align on a lot of things Yeah, but I'm not here to take personal shots or whatever he's like, okay, you know like what's the history? Why do I have your blocks? We talked about that a little bit for for years ago I don't know the exact tweet I'm paraphrasing exact my people to find it and put it in post production But rebel tweeted something along the lines of like the odds of two NFL ties happening in one week Or like one in 750,000 absurdly wrong number. Yeah, I don't remember the exact number But it I just remember the number I saw the number I was sitting at a bar and like at Just I'm like what is this and I'm like trying to do the math in my head and I was responding from the bar Just like no this math is obviously what's the relevance of the bar here? Have you been consuming a couple of drinks at this point? No, honestly. I just remember where I was Okay, that exact moment. I don't know why I had been consuming drinks, but like I wasn't drunk I was just I just remember it's so vividly um Because I was with another friend who happened to be like a stats major And I'm just like, you know showing him and he's like this is ridiculous So is it and it was an NFL week where two tie games happened So he wanted to tweet the the probability of that happening and he completely mis-tweeted it I responded. I'm like like no, this is not right His response to me was like well, I ran it by Johnny Avello sports book director of wherever he was at a time And he said that this is like correct. I'm like okay It's not like here's the map. Here's what I would do to come up with you know figure out exactly what the probability is Um, and we kept going back and forth and he just eventually blocked me after like one of the interactions And I wrote an article the next day. I was working with prediction machine at the time I wrote an article the next day about the exact probability and how I figured it out and how it was way off That might have something here, but might be a different one by the way Um, this is November 2nd 2019 Um, I'll put it up on screen for those watching on YouTube so you can see everything but there's screenshots and stuff So rob this is it starts by rob screen-shotting rebel tweets and he says interesting turn of events uh effectively Revells tweeting one of the most free money bets and sports is the under on the service academy Navy. Yeah, and then he's giving percentages. I'm not gonna get into too much. It doesn't really matter And the rebel replies. It's not a turn of events you idiot the story which I'm sure you didn't click on talked about O bookmakers were more aware of the under now which will make it harder in the future I bought that and I bet against it today. I lost And then Rob says funny that you're calling me an idiot when our first ever interaction was In regards to the probability of two ties happening in an NFL season You were only a tiny bit off there if you recall yes, and then so this was this was after it obviously I probably had to screenshot a rebel tweet because I was blocked So I couldn't actually like just post the tweet or whatever, but yeah, so we we have a story passed Um, so the panel comes and we're there Um, now at some point Rufus Peabody decides that he's gonna do a Twitter thread This was not immediately when we started the panel was at some other point um, but Rumors packed it's Like it's weird because I've been to other conferences before where I've spoke on panels. I've been part of them usually the audience is very quiet They're just observing maybe there's some questions at the end This you could feel like more emotion in the room. It's really hard to describe But like even after some answers like people would clap or or you know, there was like audible Laughing and check like it was not it was unusual Um, and we're following Billy Walters, right? Hmm. So the room is packed. Yeah like there was a break after Billy Walters But everyone is there because pretty much everyone at the conference attends that Spanky Billy Walters interview. So Rufus is doing this Twitter thread which In hindsight, I have since read the thread. It is not entirely indicative of the conversation Like the first tweet in that thread is Rufus saying quoting Revell saying I am part of the problem Which in my recollection he said sarcastically and also as part of a larger sentence So that created like a little bit of a stir sure and everything in there was not exactly fully reflective of the situation but basically Sam penny out of it started the moderation kind of asks us all to explain our roles in gambling Twitter and Eventually it got to the conversation of like Don't know how I got to the point, but I was trying to make the point that um what bothers me about content creation in the space the most is When the content creator misrepresents themselves to the audience and I explain that I have a personal experience with this um When I was younger like I did an infomercial for covers called covers experts Basically, I thought a lot of these people were successful sports bettors that weren't I Tailed picks from people who so I just don't like misrepresentation right I don't care I never have if a content creator is a wreck better a losing better as long as they Are up front about it. It's when they try to sell themselves as something that they're not Okay, which really bothers me that's me personally some other people and I had a lot of conversations around the conference afterwards From some people who are like I don't agree with you on this your hypocritical whatever totally fair You can address those points with me and I'll always have a conversation with people about it, but I could not communicate this point Effectively to rebel which was really bothering me because he just kept Bringing it back to him being the most transparent person Anywhere because he tracks all of his picks within action network app And I was like praising him for being transparent. I'm like that's great. There's been some history There's a guy on twitter called sizzle who like has pointed to some maybe deleted bets from rebel in the past I don't know whether that's true or not. I honestly I honestly don't know Okay, but either way He was very stuck in like the transparency thing and like where's your record Rob And I was like well, you know that shows I give out picks. I keep track of record. I'm a I'm a pro better It's disadvantageous for me to to track every single pick For a variety of reasons so they won't reverse engineer It's a promise to know but listen it's there there is some truth to that It's different in the war in sharpson area. We can talk about a lot of this But one sharpest selling picks he's giving out his plays publicly no matter what so I think there's an onus on him to track those even if someone can reverse engineer It's like then stop selling the picks stop publicly doing them for me betting his livelihood If my NHL stuff for example was to get out there people would be able to flag accounts that know it's my NHL stuff They could piggyback off it. They could do all sorts of stuff and potentially in some capacity maybe reverse engineer But he was very fixated on the transparency component and I was trying to explain to him That that's not the issue for me It's the misrepresentation Like you're not a gambling expert there and you had no absolute like nothing about gambling very very little So do not put gambling advice out there without letting people know that especially when you have 1.9 million followers and Other content creators in the space whether that's YouTube whatever Just don't put stuff out there without letting the audience know who you really are Let me ask you something though in the grand scheme of things in all content creators You think Darren Revelle is one of the most destructive Accounts out there or do you think there's people that are far worse? He's one of them because He perpetuates like the kind of like maybe the dream that you had of like everybody can win big Like the parlay pats mattress max stuff or whatever yeah the guys I see here's the content creators I hate I hate like Markle parlay. I hate it. I Like disturbs me to the absolute mask. Yeah, yeah, I keep winning million dollar I don't like that right so that to me is definitely a form of destruction What you know ultimately I think Darren is just chasing clicks I think he made that very clear as well like people are interested in this I'm gonna write about it But I do think that there's like an onus to not write about things that can be destructive So to each their own everyone has their own opinion on this I'm just sharing mine you might agree with Darren you might have your own takes But this is my whole opinion. Do you think you came off bad because you said Part of Rufus's Twitter thread didn't capture Some of the the the the moments on stage or misrepresented it do you think when you look back on it Do you think you came off bad reading reading that Twitter chain? No, I don't so in the room I definitely did not feel like came off bad I like One for the amount of people who approached me afterwards to talk about it and like it was the highlight of their week or whatever and again I hope like if it was the highlight of the week because like you I was maybe too aggressive with revelle. I'm not really super proud of that. Yeah, I I think just from an entertainment perspective Whatever I just spoke my mind. All I did was speak my mind and You know, I don't think I came off bad now that video has been recorded. I don't know if it's ever gonna be released It should be I agree, but I don't know if there ever will be I do think if that was to make like it publicly Most of the recreational Side of bettors or recreational bettors the vast majority of the betting population I would probably come off looking poorly. Mm-hmm because There's just like a sore like there's a lack of education in the space. Yeah You know, you kind of know what I'm getting at. Yeah, like a lot of the points I'm making will just go right over people's heads I was speaking to my audience would show the people in that room Which would understand a lot of what I was saying but Darren just could not understand what I was saying and he just kept bringing up examples that were triggering me even more and more And when I completely lost it in the moment was when he brought up Chris Raybon as an example of someone who does it right? Mm-hmm Chris Raybon being with the action network. So um Backstory, but maybe one to two years ago Someone DM me on Twitter Specifically with screenshots of them tracking Chris Raybon on the action network app um and said like These lines don't exist These live bets like these numbers do not exist when they're coming out um, so myself and someone else Um with in bet stamp at the time we kind of just like did our own due diligence on the situation And he was very clearly past posting Live odds In some capacity, right? So he may have actually been betting them himself at those numbers But when he was locking them into the app They were had already moved long moved and she's cooking the books here Yeah, and and I was explaining to Darren that like these past posting numbers and had has been known to do that Well, it's not only me that like that lots of people know this I You know there are people watching this that know this it's like not a Well-kept secret, but he was explaining to me how it's physically It's it's impossible to do that because of the way that their app works They like bet stamp have have some sort of bet syncing technology where you just place the bet at a sportsbook and it pulls in the line And tracks it now that's relatively new for one but anyone Like with live odds especially anyone who's trying to keep like a live database of live odds even like Any bet tracking software. It's really hard. Yeah for sure and It's just an easy way to skirt the system and he specifically said to me and we were arguing about this for a little bit And I I kind of just gave up because I wanted to move on but he specifically said to me You don't understand how bet tracking apps work Which was the triggering point for me because I helped build one. Yeah, I come from a product that like I worked as a product manager for the score for years So I helped to work on the bet stamp product. I know exactly how bets bet tracking apps work I know how to game the system. We spent years We've spent literally years at bet stamp trying to plug all the holes that we know can possibly exist But there's always always always always going to be a scenario unless you're directly pulling every single bet in from a sportsbook Which no app is doing right now Where somebody can be watching an odd screen and quickly click a stale number in an app It might be one second it might be two seconds might be ten seconds or some apps might be thirty seconds But it's always a possibility. He could not grasp this He just could not and it's a fundamental lack of gambling knowledge But that was what derailed it for me Where it was just like this guy is just not gonna get anything that I say and He really hit home many many times many many many times on him just being extremely transparent And even Jeff Benson said like no one's questioning your transparency like this is not works questioning whether or not the stuff You're doing is like is a harm to the general public he just He couldn't he couldn't get it and at one point he then called my reputation into question Um when I disagreed with him on something he said well This is why you have such a bad reputation in the space. Oh, so he does know who you are like He he played Koi about knowing and then oh wait a minute I've done because I didn't think Darren would go into a panel like that unarmed and not knowing about everybody's background This is why you have such a bad reputation in the space and Steve Fesik on my left says impeccable what are you talking about his reputation is impeccable He says that I'd never I mean years ago I never ever thought Fesik would be the guy sticking up for me But Steve loves you. I heard him and RJ Bell and AJ and Steve Sidenberg Scott Sidenberg talking about the panel post like they did a show on it and Fesik's got a lot of respect for you. He admires you. I wonder if it's that what's that syndrome where You eventually grow feelings for your kid napper Stockholm. Yeah, yeah, after the beatdown Fesik received on circles off like he's got Stockholm syndrome. He loves you now Well, so I think maybe My what it might have contributed to that and I don't know for sure like I actually never interacted with Fesik for years Like I've always known of him. We just didn't interact um I I gave I You know made a few jokes about his tweets before yeah Even in the panels like I don't know how you click send tweet on The stuff that goes out like I have no idea and I don't know about you guys But he clearly saw the kind of money you can make from Twitter now on engagement because Steve has ratcheted it up the the violence on Twitter like oh yeah He's tweeting stuff just the cause commotion right now. He's become a shit to server for sure Gotta give it to him as if he finds another revenue stream. He's gonna explore that option He stepped up his game, but I honestly think that a lot of it just stems from so we did the circles off interview with Fesik Um, if you haven't listened to it honestly, I would highly recommend that you check it out We'll link that in the description below as well But Johnny and Fesik were getting into it a lot and Johnny um I in my opinion asked an aggressive but not unfair line of questioning. Yeah, I think Totally within his right to ask the questions that he asked and um In the hosting chair There were times where I felt like a little bit uncomfortable. I don't like I just People will not believe this about me, but I generally don't like confrontation I don't it makes me uncomfortable But I played more of a neutral party. Yeah, if it was like a witness interview was like a good cop bad cop Yeah type of situation And I think he probably came out of that interview Respecting me a lot more for not being as aggressive as I'm piling on right which you know I don't think it would have done me any service to pile on there. Yeah, like I I am a believer that there That's another person on the other side of the camera that we're interviewing give them the opportunity to tell their side of the story If you disagree We can ask questions we can poke holes. We can do whatever we want to do but I don't think it would have served me any purpose to just like Ask the same questions as Johnny I think you I needed to keep it on track to make sure it didn't evolve anyways I think that has led to phasic respecting me more. That's my speculation He might deny that agree whatever. That's just my my perspective But there's a few things other things that came up. So I referenced a book at Trent. Yeah as someone that I think Is a good content creator And my reasoning and by the way anyone can disagree with this stuff I like it's not the be all you know my opinion is not the be all an end all These are just the way that I'm wired to think and what I believe on situations and I disagree with you on book it with Trent Perfect we can have this conversation And lots of people do like this is this is a very big contentious point to me book it Trent as an individual Is doesn't own book it. He's a minority owner in the company Um doesn't really have like full creative You know, I don't want to get into the full details But like as just him as a person what he's doing on a day-to-day basis when I first found him It was like doing these tiktok videos, which I thought were funny about like now in hindsight It's probably a bad idea to put stuff out there, which is like yeah, I'm like you know It's a video of like oh like How my family gonna afford to eat this week. Yeah, yeah, and then he's like mashing like lions money line or whatever yeah I can see how it can be taken You know But if you got to know him more and watch his content He was very very actively preaching that he is not a winning better And that to me was like do what you want you're giving your arming people But even now when people call him like a loser on Twitter like why would I tail your picks or whatever He just responds like I wouldn't yeah, or like I would bet the opposites or like he very much stays true To who he is as a better all right Here's the problem because you criticize rovel for saying hey, I'm transparent. Mm-hmm You just said well book it Trent doesn't represent himself as a winning better. Yep. That doesn't matter because to me I don't care that a guy who's an expert tells you hey man better unit on this team right who Technically, okay, maybe he's got no edge or the pick is useless But he's not preaching anything irresponsibly think better unit. I kind of like it right book it Trent puts out a Video this week where his book he's texting him hey man you owe me two grand and he goes give me one more day I got one bet. I want to make it back and he and then he puts it all on Baltimore money line against Washington and They won or lost that's irrelevant, but he's Teaching the irresponsible part of gambling the chase right the yeah dumping everything on to try to get yourself on Out on a Sunday night because Rob I've been there. I've been there. So if I by the way in the hole You know for grand going into Sunday night or and I'm betting 500 bucks a game and I'm bet and I bet it all on the Sunday night Or just so I could break even and you're shaking watching this game because a you don't even know how you're gonna come up with this money on Monday for your book You got a queasy feeling Watching the game and then once you lose that sinking feeling of Damn, I should have just accepted the four grand loss because right now I would kill to have just four grand a pain instead of the eight So I find that way more destructive than a guy who says hey, I'm a freaking good better You should bet the the lions plus one because you know the this quarterback's gonna carve this other team useless analysis and stuff That doesn't bother me as much as book a trend with some of his content not all of it Yeah, but I don't like content like that. That's totally fair I've been in the same spot of chasing losses. Obviously. I highly highly preach bank bankroll management now and not doing that stuff some people I mean, it's just very challenging if you've been in the spot before you know exactly what I'm talking about for me I think context matters and again Listen, there might be and it's possible people who are stumbling upon that video And taking it seriously. I don't believe that they're actually are I think it's a stick and people realize it's a stick Because he's made it apparent that it's a stick. Yeah, it's clearly parody I just think you're feeding uh that culture. Yeah, right? And and and I believe that's more destructive than the actual game or the video or anything about that It's feeding that chase culture because believe it or not. It's like he makes it look cool to chase all his losses and try to win it all back on one game It's not cool. There's nothing funny about that because there's a dark aspect of that and I've seen it first hand I've experienced it So to me that stuff strikes a nerve. Yeah, no, and it totally canna struck a nerve with a lot of people most people Though it was not specifically with Trent. It was with the brand. Mm-hmm Where was like oh, how can you promote this? They're like this brand is doing this and that and I'm like listen I'm not promoting the brand. I I don't like every single content creator with book it I think that there are definitely people who quote unquote do it wrong. Yeah, try to pass themselves off as winners When there's no need for that. Yeah, you can you know you can you see a guy like Trent Who's built a following as a losing better and has been like very upfront with it and for some reason I think he goes back to ego. Yeah, the sports fans some people just can't let it go They can't just let people know that they they're a loser or whatever But anyways that was one and then There was a lot of people that approached me and I will say had very fair conversations with me It was not like they approached me and like oh Rob you're a hypocrite you do the same thing or whatever But it was like are you being a little bit hypocritical because you also run like your own content network and you're looking to monetize And I can totally understand that side of things personally. I don't believe that We do have a lot of conversations About our talent in specific our messaging specifically Yes, we are monetizing through sportsbook partnerships. Yeah, and listen This is the reality of life Not every single player that I ever sent to a sportsbook or that goes to bed at pinnacle or wherever is going to be a winning better That's just not reality But there's also lots of things that I do and preach that will turn a losing better into like less of a losing better And someone who can maintain a banquerel for a long time and have entertainment and engagement look at zack for example behind the glass right Although zack is I think now a winning better as well At least his bet stamp is Which it's actually not telling you about the table tennis in Russia three and then he's been in a zack's bet stamp account He's past posting live odds You know, yeah, but anyways there I can I can get that perspective like I like to have conversations with people and anyone's entitled to have their own opinion on it But I don't think it's hypocritical because I think a lot of what we're doing is rooted in the right messaging and We do that on every like it can all it can honestly get redundant how often we do that like we talk about You know playing within your limits and stuff, but it's important So I don't really care that it's redundant anyways. Those are just like the big one last question Because I think Ravelle is very aware of his brand and I think he put some some stuff out that he knows he'll get Crap on because he wants the engagement it feeds him to I'd agree with that You're you've been a public persona for a while now and you have a following um Are you self-aware of your brand and are careful about what you're putting out there because I had a conversation with My betting partner and my cousin who doesn't have a social presence and doesn't want one And he's asked me what are you what are you doing this and I told him my end goals and I said but If tomorrow I had to shut down my profile twitter no more media and just be happy in my life as a better I can do it no problem. Yeah, I'm able to step away. I don't I don't I don't feel like I'm compelled to tweet Every day so that I can keep my brand going along. Do you are you in a position where you feel now obligated to have to cater to the audience to give something out there? I wouldn't call it and no I don't I honestly don't It would sound stupid from someone who runs a content Network to say that But I don't ever feel obligated like people who follow me on twitter There will be three four days at a time where I just don't tweet sometimes because I don't think I have something relevant to tweet Or I'm just like it happened to me this week. Okay Sam howl has this amazing first half of the the game, right? And I I started to craft one or two tweets about Sam howl right on the guy you got to do something witty Got a show half that you don't care And then I sat back and I'm like who cares who cares what I have to say about Sam howl because 900 other people on twitter right now are making the same dumb comments And I'm like I was gonna land on something like adjusting my power ratings washing things going way up And I'm like who cares? I you know what? I'm enjoying this game. I have I have some money on it I don't need to tweet this thing out to anybody I built most of my following on twitter from just live tweeting cowboys games Honestly, I think people really could feel the emotion that I was feeling through my tweets and I enjoyed doing that or just tweeting like primetime football games or whatever That's how I built it, but like I don't feel an obligation to tweet at this point and I don't feel an obligation to do any type of content You know that I'm not super comfortable with like The Simon Hunter episode is probably the pinnacle episode of circles off. Okay. It's got the most views all time um It got the most views likely because it was polarizing and there's a lot of people who came in to defend Simon hunter You see that in the comments comments of that video. It's still comment people still comment still find that video and comment on it um but I Professor Shahin came up to me at that bash and he's like dude that Simon hunter video He's like I have to watch it like once a week Because it's like for the last he's just says it's the best vid. It's the best piece of content ever created I don't really love that episode. Yeah, because I've listened back and You know if I could do that in hindsight We probably should have just reached out to Simon beforehand and had him on instead you thought it was mean spirited a little bit Yeah, it was never the intent. I mean it sort of was but like It's hard to describe anyways. I just listened back to it And it's not a piece of content that I love tons of people love that I won't name names But there's people who still reach out to me about how great that episode was and they're like oh here like they're constantly sending me Simon hunter content of like oh you have to roast this guy you have to do and like it's been done Yeah, I've done it now, you know Recently he had a podcast. It was sent to me like by a dozen people about how he consulted for an NFL team during the draft Yeah, and what and People sent me those now candidly like it's obviously BS. Yeah, because either Either he he actually did no, it's and it's pathological It's like at this point. I actually when someone has that level of lying to them Like I call it salsa right where we all tell a story and there's a couple extra details and you know things get Turned up 10 percent. That's called salsa when you're telling a story Then there's the complete like fabrication of that of something that never happened in in a million years And I go I look I'm like oh That's that's really there's something wrong with him there that he thinks that people believe this this crap So I actually have consulted for teams across major leagues before I'm not gonna say who because guess what I signed an NDA and I can't talk about this stuff publicly first for these But on top of that if you were if you did consult for an NFL team During the draft and then you went out and did three podcast episodes of NFL draft bets And talked about all the draft bets that you made We have a real conflict of interest here a massive one So either you didn't or you absolutely violated some sort of league policy Which is a huge problem and you've now put that out there like It obviously he obviously didn't but this is what my like this This is the mess misrepresentation of content creators. Yeah, that drives me nuts Like it drives me create he never had to say that yeah He already has his following who thinks whatever and he's maybe built that off of many lies But never had to say that drives me insane But yeah, I don't you know, I could do another one of those episodes And we could throw him up on the thumbnail. Yeah, and you know we and we were probably We'd bank a ton of views sure and from a business perspective makes sense it makes sense to do it from a human perspective I don't like the guy whatever but like And I'm not saying we'll never do one of those But I'm not at the place now where like I just want to rehash that episode Because I did feel like it came across in like poor jest as a person who's listened to every episode and enjoys the show Very horse and Matt I think it's Matt Trenhill. Yeah, still my two favorite episodes This I'm 101 won't even crack my top 10. Yeah, it was entertaining in the moment. I will never rewatch it Yeah, I got it. Well, it's it's not a learning you're not so a wreck person Someone who's just pure wreck might learn something from that episode Because the whole motion of syndicates or whatever Yeah, you maybe you'll learn something you'll be like oh, but a wreck person is just as likely to watch that episode in my opinion See it in the comments of that episode as well. Yeah, and say like these hosts are like haters They don't know what they're talking about and it's really just doing it's doing fan service to like our core audience And you want to do that sometimes You do you do like you want people coming back to but you want to do it Like don't want to do it all the time. Yeah, and make it a consistent thing Plus CV minus CV We'll end off the show here I got you want me to throw to you first. Do you yeah? I've got both mine and I go for it. Okay. Plus CV pre-tipping And I'll tell you three spots where it pays off you end up going to a wedding, right? And everybody wants to grab some drinks all night and then they'll tip what I do is I pull out a nice bill I won't say how much slap it on the table and say hey man Looking forward to the night. Um, this is my drink I never wait in line after that. There's 20 people at the bar crowded sees you Over here drink ready just because I pre-tipped him this is a absolute pro move I'm totally with you on this I actually I talked about stags on this program before I had a stag on Friday night Pulled the same move right away. Yeah, make sure that that bartender sees you right away. Thanks very much Whatever boom the rest of the night. It's ready to go do it at Copacabana to Copacabana is an all you can eat Brazilian steakhouse and they got like 20 different types of steak and They'll constantly bring it around and cut you off a piece at a time one piece usually and move on But there's like four really good meats, right? The ones with like Parmesan steak. There's the four bangers, right? You make sure you tip two different waiters, right? Early and every time they get that you'll be the first table that gets there And he's cutting you off a second piece and he's taking care of you because you pre-tipped. Yep. Totally agree Great move pre-tipped and that's that's a positive EV move in your life Minus EV minus EV is hosting a party, okay It's say the party goes from five pm to 11 pm or depends on what kind of party it is I guess And you've got to spend the day before probably shopping everything then you got to get up a few hours earlier and prep the food and cook and everything and then While the party's going on you drink okay, you got to play hostess and then when everybody's gone Now you've got the reality. I got to clean this place to take me another eight hours So that six hours of enjoyment that the guest gets it costs you about two days worth of headaches Just to make things go smoothly. So I think hosting a party negative EV move Man you you're you're we're on the same page today I gotta I gotta play this one for my wife. We host a Christmas party every year, but my wife God bless her soul She it's called it's a Christmas games party We did this for the bet stamp office like a couple years ago. Zach will remember this as well But like she comes up with unique divides people in teams we buy like a different color stalking for the teams or a two or whatever It's like this whole ordeal, but I'm part of like the whole planning and the setup and the cleanup And they're there for like four hours. Mm-hmm. You know, everyone's got kids They got to wait till their kids go down or they can get a babysitter You know, they're over at nine they're leaving at like one in the morning because they got kids and they got to deal with them the next day It's it's it's a struggle. I'm not I'm not I love parties don't get me wrong But I don't like hosting them never never um plus EV I just did some recent traveling We had call customer service Josh on a couple weeks ago I gave him this pro tip several years ago when I was doing a lot of traveling for work um And just to like meet different betting partners and different cities and stuff like that But my wife often wouldn't come with me for a lot of these and Her choice I would always always ask but Shoot message me when I'm there. How are things going or you know when I come home? How is the trip? I Don't want to blatantly lie But the plus EV move is to focus on the worst parts Mm-hmm. You do not ever want to make your significant other or spouse whatever Feel like they were really missing out on something. Yeah, because one it just pisses them off and it's gonna aggregate Agrivate them what imagine like while you're gone Your wife messages you and like how are things going? You're like oh best trip ever Like she's just sitting at home now of like what the fuck like you doesn't have this this type of fun with me or whatever And then or when you get back it's the same thing So you really really have to focus in on the worst details and just ham it up like my Wi-Fi was terrible Like I couldn't I could barely were what you know this the shower Like bothered me the whole trip because the water was too cool whatever it is Just do not Make the trip sound too good and if you're traveling without your significant other and then you got to sprinkle in You know if you were here it would have that could have got through this a lot easier. Yes You gotta let them know that they could have enhanced this terrible trip that you had I 100% and then she'd be like oh maybe next time I'll come with you next time comes doesn't really want to come whatever It's fine, but you know I travel with my wife. We do our own vacations We both afford each other the flexibility to have our own time So she wants to go on a trip with her friends whatever go on a trip with your friends If I want to do the same thing we do that But got like do not Return and say it was Unreal like oh you missed this view look at these pictures. I got do not do that So it's it was a tip I gave to Call customer service many years ago and I stand by it as plus CV minus CV While I was on this said trip. I went from Bet Bash directly to Nashville, Tennessee drove to Jefferson City to play mini golf against Rufus who I beat by the way that won one series but On the way home we flew back out of Knoxville, Tennessee So I'm at Knoxville. I'm at the airport. I'm going through the line at the airport At security line and there's like all these pictures in line and Zach will bring them up on screen here if you're listening You'll just have to hear me describe them But it's a picture of a gun and bullets and it says like officer stanton prevented this gun from getting on a recent flight And as you go through the line there's more of these officer McConnell prevented this gun from getting on a recent flight At the six bullets here officer stanton again officer fury and I'm like Why the fuck would the airport? Yeah put these in the lot like do they think they're doing us like serve What if officer stanton's not working today? Yeah, like am I in big trouble because he didn't prevent I didn't even know there was this many many people trying to bring guns on a flight now. I'm freaked out Now I'm in the line. I'm like holy fuck all these are within the last month There's just five pictures here of people trying to bring guns onto the flight with like a full magazine I'm like what is going on here like why your airport? You want to put people at ease. Yeah, yeah, like you're one goal is make things go smooth as possible I don't want to know that this happens. This is absurd Officer what like I never seen guns that look like this in my life before officer Welsh prevented this gun from going on a flight Don't do this stuff. No, if you are in air trap if you're working like if you run an airport Make the the the customer the like the air traveler seem as like make it as safe as possible I don't want to know that this shit happens. This is forever stuck with me now Yeah, I'm gonna be at every airport like what does this guy have in the bag? You know granted at least these things are getting caught There's like a little bit, but who knows who knows what gets through so don't if you're in air travel If you know someone in air travel get rid of these make people feel Safe at the airport. Oh totally totally unrelated, but kind of related because I love the sidebar. I'm in Panama What on a boys trip and we end up going to a club downtown And we get into the building and then My buddy says out loud he goes We didn't get padded down at the door. Did we? I go. Thank you, man Now this is the worst night on them like hyper aware of everybody I'm like and I I didn't notice that But he had to plant that seat in my head because now I'm thinking Who the hell is strapped in here and who isn't just because he said that comment It's the idea of don't bring awareness to something that I probably don't want to know though Well end off on one other thing I just want to tell you so your Niceness yes of giving up your bet bash ticket to a friend of mine. Oh, Zach's gonna put up the The image on screen here. So you told me can't go to bet bash if you got a friend that wants to go Just give him the ticket and he'll be there My friend John Carlo Peruzza came out with me to bet bash Ended up playing a three dollar three hundred dollar no limit hold them event At the win and he won it for nine thousand nine hundred and thirty six dollars. Good. There's a picture of him up on screen You can see it here with these pocket pins on his holding as the winner. That's awesome Funny how things come together because he may not have made it out for that trip Ultimately gets a ticket goes and and wins himself almost 10k and for Canadian with the exchange rate That's roughly 13. What is that under bucks butterfly effect that that's what just happened there pretty crazy So being a nice guy actually does You're a guy who believes in that stuff in the karma. So I mean Good for you for for giving that up and and not asking anything of it because At the end of the day it came through check out George's podcasts right here on the circles off YouTube channel and in audio form as well. It's called 90 degrees. He interviews Different people from around the bedding space bookmakers betters entertainers Does a really good job with it other aside from what bedpot rating says about him I actually think he does a really good job with it And the feedback has been predominantly very good as have the analytics which I care about the most So check out 90 degrees for sure if you are in Ontario check out pinnacle and again play responsibly If you are going to sign up use code hammer when doing so as it helps support the show I have one last thing You're listening to this on Thursday If you're listening to it on Thursday or Friday morning Rob I think we can say the sports book on Friday Brad Powers Parker Fleming Douglas Farmer from the hit the books channel as well as myself will be at circus sports in there doing a live show on Friday 1 p.m. Pacific time 4 p.m. Eastern time so you can come say hi to us there before or after the show Preferably not during the show that'll be appreciated if you don't do that and then Saturday We have a booth at circus. Well, so you can come say hi to us. We'll be in there watching the games as well So if you want to come stop by but Before then even if not you can check out the show on hit the books hq youtube channel And the floor to it hit the books has been cooking lately If we're actually going to have to get like I'm going to have to put my foot down. So I'm not exaggerating. I've probably tried to get kinesh a mic a dozen times He either rejects it says he's getting his own mic He complains that it's the core that he has or there's always some excuse But it's actually getting enough viewership right now that like we can't Zach We cannot have this happen. You have to pay him to for the permission to put the mic in his house He needs an incentive of a new mic is not clearly an incentive enough for him He needs he wants something extra. He's holding up for a better deal Well, he can't use one of these that we have here because he's laying down on his coach when he records most of the show So we have to get him a headset or something But we have to get him something So that's going to happen for all the listeners of hit the books I saw doc better out there started to go fund me to get kinesh a new mic We don't need the money to get him a mic We just need him to actually accept the I'm scared we'll order an Amazon package to his house And he'll just say like no take this away or leave it out there because he doesn't want the mic So we will get that done hit the books He's going well definitely check that out as well. This has been episode number 116 for myself Rob Pizzola for G stack George for Zach Phillips behind the desk Thank you very much for listening make sure you smash that like button and we'll catch you next week