Episode 119: Release Shows, Rodgers Injury, and Sportsbook Rules

On this week's episode of Circles Off, we're talking pick releases from content creators and from pick services, whether or not people have a right to be upset about that, Aaron Rodgers injury. How does that impact the NFL, but also how does it impact sportsbooks and what they have to do to house rules going forwards? All that and more this week's episode of Circles Off starts now. Come on, let's go! Welcome to Circles Off episode number 119 right here on the Hammer Bedding Network. I'm Rob Azola, joined by Johnny from Bedstamp. How goes? Been great, man. Week one in the books. Just nice to be back. It is very nice to be back. I see you're rocking the Italia gear. It's been really depressing. Pants to it, Rob. Pants as well, which you're not seeing on the full tracksuit. One one draw with North Macedonia was a very, very rough one for the italianos this week. Italia, Italia. Yeah, it's a struggle. Not the best right now. What about Canada and the US? Yeah, basketball. Oh, man, that was electric. Bronze medal game. Who's going to win? Who's going to win? Canada one. No, no, not saying that the whole thing. Oh, it's over. I watched the finals. Yeah, who won? Germany beat Serbia. They did it. They did it for summa. They did it for summa. The Germans wanted. He was at like some local soccer game. I was messaging him. I'm like, you watching this right now? He's like, no, what's going on? Who do they even have? They have Dennis Schroeder. Yeah. Dennis Schroeder was just like ripping it up, man. He's, uh, I saw like a redraft of that year. He was like one of the most putrid years. Like Schroeder was like, if you redo everything, he was like fifth overall. Yeah. There's a rough draft. There's a rough draft. There's a rough, rough draft. I think Yannis was like one. Yeah. And then everyone else was not good. Yeah. It's been a good week in sports. Just having football back, seeing, you know, Kanish make a stance on Colorado in the off season and then watching them start to know. That brings a lot of a lot of joy. A lot of joy into my life. NFL is back. This is episode number 19. And, you know, we saw the first game of the year, Kaderius Tony, number 19, drop about 69 balls directed his way over the course of that game. That was that was pathetic. That was 19, a big hockey number, not any more, not any more, not many people were in 19 anymore. They've swapped it over the old 91, around my age group. But prior to that, growing up, yep, sackic, yep, Iserman. Yep. Jumbo Joe Thorden. Yep. All incredible number 19. Jonathan Taves to another Canadian center. More more recent. Yeah. But 19 is like the Canadian centerman number. Yeah. Joe Sackic, man. Yeah. Like Canada. Also very good front office guy. Now, yeah. Is he is he though? Is Iserman a good front office guy? Well, I guess maybe what constitutes being good? Is it relative to your peers? Because it's relative to your peers, right? Like I'm sure Iserman makes a lot of mistakes as the Sackic, but relative to who else is in the league, I think those are some pretty solid guys. There. Yeah. I mean, Sackic, Sackic's not bad. But you don't really know what these guys, if they're actually calling the shots or not. Another 19, different sports, but also Canadian. And then we do give love to Canadians on this program. Joey Votto. Chill Votto. Number 19. From around here. Yeah. Wow. Just down the street. Jason. Jason on. The pride of was Sega Beach, Ontario. Yeah. I'm telling you, all these Canadian players growing up 19. Larry Robinson, Brian. Yeah. There's a lot of extra in the NFL right now. I got doesn't like a chuck. We're 19 right now. Not sure he does. So we got also in the NFL. One of the top players, however, I don't know if he's that good anymore for fantasy, but Debo Samuel. Unfortunately, the hamstrings are a real problem for Debo. I hope he stays healthy because I'd like to see him at his full potential. But between Debo Samuel and Darren Waller, those guys have hamstrings of like people who've ran marathons for the last one hundred and ninety eight years. Yeah. There you go. It's just really rough for those guys. Speaking of people who have been around for a while. Absolutely. I like what you did there. Pinnacle Sportsbook. In business for 25 years, they're the world's sharpest sportsbook available to betters in Ontario. Find out what the pros have known for decades. Pinnacles wear the best betters play. And of course, it's football season. You're line shopping. You never line shop without pinnacle is one of your sportsbooks. Very good every day competitive odds. Bet smart, bet pinnacle available in Ontario, not available in the US. You must be 19 plus. And as always, please play responsibly. So before we get into it, we do it. We've done this check multiple times, but we're really going to prove the value of pinnacle here with the line shopping. So I pulled open my bet stamp account. You can go to betstamp.app if you want to compare odds across every sportsbook. Right now I'm set to Ontario. We've got 30 plus sportsbooks in the mix in Ontario. Okay. Pinnacle being one of them. Pinnacle being the sharpest one. When we look at the odds, I'm going game by game here. So I've pulled open the Sunday slaves for a week. One that's already happened. Closing price. If you're betting on Sunday, you want the best price. You guys ready for this? On each game, we've got, okay, so one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. Through seven games, we have 14 best prices on pinnacle, whether that be spread, total, or money line, meaning at a minimum on every single game on Sunday, except for the Rams and Seahawks game. If you were in Ontario, you would have had something that had the best price on pinnacle. So if you're betting football, it doesn't make sense to not have pinnacle as one of your sportsbooks. I know, I know you might be using a couple others, whatever. Sign up for pinnacle. Code hammer helps support the show. We really appreciate that. But in general, you're going to find the best odds on so many different games on the course of the season. Like, you know, again, if you're betting 10 bucks, 100 bucks, 1000 bucks, or more, it doesn't matter. You're saving so much money. If you want to think of it like this, every for a hundred dollar better, if you're getting now, you know, minus 0 5 instead of minus 110, you save the five bucks, you're betting your five, that's 25 bucks. Throw that 25 on a first touchdown score. You never know what happens. Bang, extra 1000. You never know. Like, save the money, put it back and play more fun, better pinnacle sports. Totally agree with everything Johnny said. And one more thing, people often say like, why would I want to bet with a sharp sportsbook? I was telling Johnny off air. I'm not going to mention what sportsbook, but I actually lost a bunch of money at one sportsbook this week went to place a bet yesterday. And I'm limited at that book, despite having lost a substantial amount of money over time. So you're down overall, down overall. And now I have $8 limits. Pinnacles not going to limit you. And on top of that, for those who turn into forward progress on Sunday night, the first one of the year with myself in Clive, we pulled up the pinnacle openers on screen, which are giving you like 500 bucks a pop. They go up to a thousand bucks pretty quickly. Look at those lines versus where they're at now. Like people think, oh, sharp sportsbook, why would I bet there? I can't beat them. Those, the lines still move just like everywhere else. You can get in on lines early on. Get some good closing line value and you can actually get a real bet on top of it. What's not to like? Absolutely. Absolutely. And also you can beat every sportsbook. Of course, every sportsbook can be beat in some capacity. Some of the people beating these sportsbooks now are the ones that are doing early week release shows. People who are doing client releases early in the week with their tote services. And this is caused what I would deem a shit storm in the gambling Twitter community market moving. The markets are moving earlier and earlier Trav, he hate me on Twitter. So we're releasing edges to the public on Mondays now. Can't we just call your mom and dad and ask if she's proud of you? There's got to be a better way to get validation, guys. That's one Brett far 444 one of the most respected football bettors or just bettors overall. I would say on the planet every service has cut each other in line to the point where they're now all just releasing Monday AM and bettors have retaliated by firing even earlier. It's a disaster more from Brett far 444. Replying to our release show on the hammer hit the books with Brad Powers. The reply is a total at Monday 6 a.m. Pacific time before Chris offshore sportsbook has even bothered to post numbers. You the man, Brad. You the man, Brad. And then we got live dog Luke spanky's head trader and you look the man. Look the man. Look the man. Look the man. Is that what that's what we're going? That's what I call it. Okay, look the man. I'm sick. I told him. I'm sick of the whole like, you know, he's true. He's his own guy. You don't get to make your own. You're the man. I don't know where live dog Luke came from, but if he made that himself, you don't just get the coin your own nickname. So we'll go with Luke the man. A new low for YouTube release shows as Brad releases a college football total on 9 a.m. Eastern Monday morning before Chris even has a line. What's next? Best bets on FCS games before the line is hung. Oh, wait. Any links to a bar stool sports. They actually put that up. Yes. Yes. So obviously a lot of people are upset about this. Nice. And naturally, I think that makes sense. If you're a if you're a winning better, you're going to be upset if other people are messing around with the market. And especially if you think that those people are also long-term winners as well or winners because as a better, if there was a bunch of early week releases and like client releases shows happening and the lines were moving in direction where it was opening up value for you, I'm pretty sure you shut your mouth and not say it most likely. So obviously in this instance, we're getting this. But let's plug our release show actually because the fact that so many people are criticizing must be some value in there. And I know it's free. It moves a lot. It's a free show. Everyone should be tuning in as if you're betting college football. So at least you get a bang or play Rob. What's what's the schedule here? Hit the books on YouTube or in podcast form, but you're going to want to watch live on YouTube because this number is going to be gone very quickly once Brad gives it out 9 a.m. Eastern time 6 a.m. Pacific every single Monday. And usually gives we're planning two to four plays roughly in that range every single week, which he's going to come on and give out now. Granted, there's going to be times like this week where maybe a market-making sportsbook hasn't opened the game yet. And you know what? I can understand the frustration for someone who might be waiting to get a play and they're like, holy fuck, this guy gave out this play. It was going to be a big edge. Couldn't have waited. Wish he would shut up. But this promote provides immense value for everyone else that's watching the broadcast. Like if you're a small time better, someone who doesn't originate yourself and you're going to get a line that's going to beat the close by a mile, it provides value. So absolute true value because you're getting closing line value on a Monday game. Again, there's different ways to evaluate this and with accounts and depending on how much you're betting and stuff like that. But the plays here, they're getting the CLV. CLV is what wins and the story we've mentioned it multiple times. Yeah, so like I completely understand the standpoint of the better who's doing well is betting a lot and says like, fuck, like the market just keeps moving earlier and earlier. I got to that point with NHL full transparency, right? Like I used to wake up in the morning, look through the NHL board 730 AM limits were going to come up circles off. We're going to, you know, happen 839 AM in the morning and we would be able to bet the board basically. There's like a, every game had some edge and some capacity. Now it's not like that. It's like two or three games that you can bet when circles are off. Sometimes none on some days is like a waste of time even waking up because people are betting earlier and earlier. But this is just the nature of the market. Like you, you have to, it's adapt or die mentality, right? At the end of the day, it is what it is. Now in terms of content creators, I do run a content network in the hammer. I get the frustration, but we're serving an audience. Like if nobody watched this stuff, we wouldn't do it. Ethically, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I mean, realistically, like for this power's release show, you got it, like this is a perfect opportunity. Show up to work 10 minutes early on Monday morning. You're going to look like a hero. Your boss is going to get in at nine. You're already going to be there at 845. Getting all your accounts set up on the screen. Obviously, hopefully your computer can't be seen by anyone else. 9 a.m. You're already ready to go. Bam, bam, bam, bam. You just made extra money for the day. By 915. By 915. By 915. By 915. You got five plays in. Yeah. Slap those all in bet stamp track them. So you get to CLV by the end of the week and you can, you know, keep checking that back throughout the week. And then there you go, Ben. What a concept. It's actually great for a lot of people. Obviously understanding anyone who's trying to make like a serious living off bed and college football. It's a little frustrating, but in a day like that's well, it's going to happen regardless. People are going to bet those regardless. I just had the question of like I can see because of having talked to you guys and seeing all the stuff on Twitter and being around some of these people, the frustration of having something put out there that you're kind of waiting for, especially because you're waiting for the limit to come later. But my only question to you guys is like in a lot of these instances. So yesterday, Brad gives out one play. He gives out under 46 and a half in the Yukon FIU game. It's at 42 and a half right now, at least on the sportsbook that I bet it out or whatever. If these people are sitting there waiting later in the week, if people are still piling on to that, isn't the opportunity to just go back the other way going to open up on some of these with that higher limit coming available. If like if it's being beaten too far, one way or the other, like those things come up, or is it just kind of like it's that just eroded it? Of course. That was the confusion that I had when I was seeing some of this response to it. Okay. Brad Powers, right-angle sports, previously Adam Churnoff Telegram, Joey Tunes Telegram, Barry Horse Telegram, ClevTa Telegram. There's just a million out there now that have a like a tangible market in Las Vegas, Chris. LVC, you know, he puts out a client release. It's going to move the market. Like there's just, it's different. Back in the day, and I haven't, like I say back in the day, like I've been betting for 40 years, I haven't. But even in the span of like three or 40 years, the market changes a lot. And this is the way that the market is heading. And yes, there are a lot of bettors who are trying to monetize in ways that aren't just betting. I would be one of those completely upfront with people. I've mentioned it a million times before. It's not as easy for me to win money doing what I do or win the amount of money that I used to with the way that the market has moved. And the problem is, like, do I just sit there and hope it changes or do I figure out a way where I can continue to earn in some capacity, right? Whether that's me personally having to bet earlier, maybe finding different sports to bet because, you know, they're flying under the radar a little bit more, but you have to adapt as a better. I totally understand this viewpoint. I think it's entirely fair. I think if you're a better that makes all of your income off of betting, I totally understand why there's an extreme level of frustration with how this market is evolving and what you're seeing. I get it. This also though, probably has an adverse effect in that it probably draws even more attention to the fact that this is happening. There's not a lot of interaction on these tweets, like 281 views, right? Whatever. Like it's not a lot, but anyone who didn't know that there was a Brad Powers release show at 9 a.m. Eastern on Mondays now now knows it. And it's probably going to go in tune in because they're going, yes, what? They're going to say, hey, four games are going to move like three or four points. Why am I not going to get it on this? One other thing I want to know on these is like for anyone saying, again, it's no, no shots at anyone. Anyone saying like, Oh, Chris didn't even post a line yet. Like who the F's get in these plays? Like who's actually even betting this for any real money? Like honestly, no one. No one's betting it for any massive amounts of money. What it's doing is like, you know, the people, you know, like producers, Zach, for example, throw in some money on it. One for a full unit ties for you. And then you have a bunch of other people who are watching the show, we're throwing like 10 bucks, 20, 50, 100. And you can get $100 limits at a lot of these books. You can get money down. That's one unit for a lot of people. And if 400 people are doing that for 10, 20 bucks each, like it's providing values, providing entertainment. That's what we're trying to do, obviously, with the company. So I know, obviously it's frustrating because you're not going to be able to, you know, hammer that Chris didn't even post yet. Definitely not something you're going to be able to hammer 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 dimes on. But it is what it is. Well, like, so forget about the hammer for a second. It's part of the thing. But like, right angle sports puts out I think four NFL plays on Monday this week. Yeah. If you guys still want to write angle sports promo code, we have one for the show. We can get you a discount versus the regular, the regular service. Couple people emailed and message yesterday. Hit the Twitter DMs. We'll send that code. You guys circles off HQ on Twitter. So right angle sports releases four plays on Monday. And people are like, what, what the hell's going on here? Like, this is Monday NFL. Now the Monday NFL market is not nothing. Like, if somebody wanted to get down like 20 K on a NFL side on Monday, they could easily do that with all the shops that are open on NFL. Maybe easily is not the right word because like, how many people actually have access to circa in Las Vegas? How many people actually have access to pinnacle and Ontario? Let's scale the back that number that I threw out there. But like, you can get a bet. It's not nothing. But the end of the day, but even at an offshore local, whatever, whatever, you can get money down. You can figure out a way to get money down, but it's supply and demand. Like, if there was a bunch of people subscribing to the right angle sport service, who are not getting value out of these Monday plays would be like, I can't bet these. I can't do this. Guess what? They would lose subscribers. Going forward, the service wouldn't do as well. Like, right now, there is a demand and people are meeting the demand in market. And it upsets a lot of people who bet for a living. I totally understand that. I get that viewpoint because we're all going to look at it from our own perspective, right? It's tunnel vision in the betting industry. How does this affect me personally? That's how everyone is going to react and form their opinions. It's not just betting. It's life for the most part. There's very few people that are able to just take a step outside of their own shoes and put themselves in someone else's position and see someone else's viewpoint. This is the world as it stands right now. So I get that viewpoint, but right now there is a massive demand for this type of stuff in market being able to get good prices. More people are becoming price sensitive. More people are understanding to bet earlier. And as a better as a full-time better, you got to figure it out. And there are a lot of full-time betters who are gravitating towards secondary means of income. And that's totally fine. And if there's people who want to say, Oh, you're a tout for doing this. Okay, whatever. That's your prerogative. It doesn't matter. It doesn't bother me when people call me a tout. In fact, I touted for years. You can argue that what I'm doing now is touting doesn't, I don't give a shit. It doesn't bother me. But at the end of the day, if you're in a position to meet the demand, like you can create a supply of content that people want or picks that people are looking for, you're foolish to not jump on that. Again, provided that there's not any ethical or moral concerns. And for me, I don't view this as one. Some people might say, well, it's unethical to release plays early in the week. You're affecting the people's ability to get down later in the week. It's like, guess what? Market moves. You can play back on it. You have the option to play back. Yeah, that was the only thing is like, you can go back. Well, I mean, listen, there sometimes there might not be value the other way or whatever. Sometimes, but this is just how markets work. Like you got to react in real time. We'll move on from this one. We got another topic that came up on the backs of the old A Rodgers, Tornick Killies, it's official now. We're recording this podcast. This will be Tuesday, September 12 release date on this one will be Thursday. So if any news has changed after that, we apologize. But what are you watching the in in real time? Yeah. I knew we tore his Achilles right away. Two seconds. Everyone did. No, no, we did. So I know you were in the livestream. I was tuning in, but didn't have it on the volume there. Got it. But here's the thing. You didn't have it. You weren't listening to me. No, I was listening to the broadcast. I wanted to see if Rodgers would return. But seriously, like I listen, I always put it on my phone and then I'll have it on the headphones when you guys are doing the live streams, just to, you know, support. It's it's also fun to hear these guys and then occasionally I'll message some of them like whether it be, I don't know, even Jason or whatever, if anyone's there. But for this one, I had to turn the TV volume on. So I wanted to see basically, you know, when they come with the early update, okay, Rodgers, not going to be returning what it was. Soon as they showed that replay, looked right away, like it was a Tornick Killies popped up. And then in my fantasy group chat, one of the guys that's like always lights out with all info whenever he's like, ah, that's in Achilles. And then it came out. They said on the broadcast that he injured his ankle. And he was going for X-rays. And my buddy said, the same guy said, don't even care what they just said about the ankle. I'm 100 percent sure it's a Tornick Killies. And sure enough, he was right. He was dead on there. So yeah, I think I knew what he was going to be on for the game pretty clearly there. Yeah, we had all the internet doctors in the Hammer live stream of that game trying to diagnose it in real time. We actually didn't even have a real doctor in the stream, but we did have a dentist. Okay. It was very convinced it wasn't ankle injury. And I'm like, I don't know about this buddy. He's like, trust me. I don't think it was ankle because he saw the way. I don't know. I probably it for him. Tough, very sad, sad to see. That's probably it for his career. That's what I was saying. It's probably it for him. Maybe he makes it come back, but definitely he's out for the season now. Toffee played was it three snaps, one in completion, one sack, and then one hand off. Was it three or four? I don't mean four. I think it was four because he was pressured three time on all three drop backs. He definitely didn't complete a pass. No, it was it was it was rough to watch. Tough for the fantasy owners that had him in and lost the matchup by a half point or whatever. Those always going to get you also tough for we're getting into the segment here. The betters who had Aaron Rodgers. Maybe you had him to score a touchdown. Whatever. First off, wanted to say this. Thank the Lord that there was no draft King super boost for Aaron Rodgers to get one yard. Because I would not have been able to handle that if that happened. There was the 9-11 boost for two hours that existed. By the way, listen, like, you know, I bet at a variety of sports books is I recommend that a lot of people do obviously pinnacle being one of them. But with with that, like I can't imagine there has to be some sort of a process where that goes through multiple people. You know how many people saw that? I was like, yeah, I'm betting this. So like at the end of the day, it's a conish's dad. No, but there's like, it said 800 better. But I'm sure there was even more that people who were just like talking about that in the group chats and then it just fired up. Conish's dad. Well, 9-11 in New York, I got to go with the jets. But for that boost to go up, I don't know the process at sports books. Maybe I'm wrong about this. But like, this was a big marketing one, right? I figure that multiple people had to have known about that before it went live. And everyone just said, yeah, like, this is a good idea. Let's do it. Like, how is this even if I don't think I don't think that many people will look over it. Yeah, maybe it has it. Maybe it was just like a one girl guy. I've done, we've done bet stamp custom boosts with different books, where we'll send it in and then we label it in whatever. And like, these guys are scrambling to just get these up on time and whatever. So yeah, if I'm being honest, like the end of the day, stuff's going to happen. But realistically, like, if you think, I'm telling you right now, if you think that goes through like a seven day approval process, no, definitely, and they had it in the marketing plan. Like, okay, the boost for Monday is going to be this. Like, I don't think it works. Like, it definitely does not. Like, I remember when me and Zach were doing them a couple years ago. Yeah, you just fired it off on your mail. The guy's like, I'm going to put this up. And then you're like, hey, make sure the odds are this because this has this. We're going on Vladi Guerrero to hit a homer and then that you put it on. And the next thing, you know, it's like, yeah, Vladi super bomb. Yes. And then you're like, oh, we got, we got cancer. Super bombing. Yeah, of course, you never know. And then it's done. But in that process, like, it was just actually a literal email to a trader saying, we want one of these three. Here is the current best number in market. The odds have to be better than this. That was it. And the guy just respond like, yeah, I'll get it up. Yeah, who knows what they're going to name it or whatever. But obviously, this is a horrible idea. Like, I know what they were trying to do. But like, it couldn't have backfired anymore. Yeah, I don't really get offended that much. I'm not offended at all by the slightest. Like, yeah, it is what it is. If people are going to get mad, yeah, I guess as a brand, be more a little conservative. But I don't, I don't, I don't care about this at all. I was not offended. But this is, it's all, it's just like, you could have just very easily avoided. Listen, I think the issue is, listen, if it was my, if that was my company, and I was looking at that, I obviously wouldn't have put that up 100%. That's all I'm saying. 100% would not have put that up. But like, you know, I'm not offended. The issue is that you are using a tragic event to encourage more betting. Like that, that you just don't do like, this was a tragedy. It's like, it's for me, this was my negative EV of the week, by the way. It was a tragedy to I was 15 years old. I was in high school. I'll never forget this day for the rest of them. Like the entire day is more ingrained in my memory than any other day of my life. Like people, you do, you do not use that day to encourage people to throw down bets on games. Like I'm sorry you do not. Yeah, fair enough. It's just a piece of anyways. Fair enough. Fair enough. So I got, um, what I was going to say is thank, thankfully, there was no Aaron Rodgers over half a half a yard super boost for opening Monday, because that would have just been the conspiracies that would have been flown around about how that happened would have been nuts. But definitely some, some stuff still popped off. People are, you know, demanding refunds, a couple of books, they don't offer the refunds and the issues there. We said it before, you can't really depend on this. Guys are going to get injured. Also, sometimes you're going to have an under and a guy gets injured and you win it. Sometimes you're going to have an under and the game goes into, um, triple overtime in the NBA and you lose by one rebound and you're like, are you kidding me? They basically played an extra quarter. It happens, man. It happens. People, these are two way markets. You can bet overs. You can bet unders in games. Period. That it's, it's, it's that simple. Anyone who bet the Aaron Rodgers under like if you, you, you can bet the under like just, just remember that every single time. Now like this, the, what I'm, what I find very, very interesting about this. I'm not going to mention specific sports book names because it doesn't matter here. But there is ones that in the past were very adamant of not paying out the winners or sorry, the, like the refunds. There is ones in the past that were always refunding and now there's like no consistency anymore in that they've all changed their tone on the situation. So you have sports books from in the past were like, okay, this person's injured. We're issuing a refund. Now they're not issuing a refund anymore. And then ones in the past that were like, no, no, no, no, this is fair game. We're now issuing refunds. And again, the people have no idea. And this causes like, so from I remember I explained this before. I actually, I nailed it though because I told you that there's never going to be consistency because they're just going to look at what that prop is going to do to their bottom line. And then they're going to say, all right, this is only going to cost us 78,000 and we can get this much PR. So like, we'll do this. But if it was going to cost them 1.5 mil, they wouldn't do it. Yes. But, but it's just arbitrary is the problem, right? So like, we, I remember we had this conversation, right? And this isn't the first time we had it on on circles off. But my whole thing was like, build this. If you want to issue refunds for certain things or whatever, build it into your house rules. Because what inevitably happens is like, okay, Aaron Rogers gets injured in the first quarter of this game and you issue a refund to everyone else. Now what happens next week, if insert random quarterback, Ryan Tanahill gets injured on the last play of the first quarter. Are you paying that out to all the people who bet the, the, oh, like you're refunding on one who bet the overs. What if it's a lesser known player? What if it's Nico Collins? Exactly, right? Like, what if it, by the way, that guy's not a lesser known player. He's a, he's a good player, but he's definitely lesser known than Aaron Ross. No, no, but I'm saying like, you know, I'm not trying to name a Nico Collins. You're not saying he's a scrub. It's a fantasy starter. Yes. But at the end of the day, the, the, the player at the sports book should have some sort of visibility into the rules. And when they're going to be able to get money and when they're not going to get money and what that, like, I don't like the arbitrary nature of this. And it just, because it's so arbitrary, you just get the, the Twitter stuff all the time where people are just like begging the sports book. Am I getting a refund? This is a screwdriver. This is this. This is that. And it's not right. Like, it's, it's, people are like, why do we care? Why do you care? And honestly, I can't explain why other than just I've been betting for a long time. And this is like the nut low of the betting population, the ones that will ask for a refund. Not only ask, demand, like they're entitled to when they could have just bet the opposite side. Yeah. Well, I mean, at the end of the day, you mentioned terms and conditions. That is what it is. Like the most terms and conditions in most of the books, almost all of them actually right now for NFL player props is player most play one snap for action. So if they didn't play a snap for the entire game, consider it an active void. Any bets over unders touchdown, no touchdown, whatever it is, you play one snap. Soon as you're on there for that one snap, that's active. Meaning if you had the under on Aaron Rogers, you are, do win, right? You're not going to then get that boyded. Yeah. You win. And then if you had the over, you lose. So it is what it is. Speaking of terms and conditions, though, one other one that I know you had on the list here. Yeah. So I saw this this week, which came across my, my timeline. And this was for Sunday night football. So Chelly, who's part of the book, it crew. Fandals not paying Dallas defense first TD out because it doesn't clarify D slash special teams scumbag move. This picked up a lot of visibility. Here's what I did upon seeing this tweet. It took me approximately two minutes. I went to Google. I typed in fan duel sports book house rules. There's rules for different states. So you'll get a bunch of different ones can etiquette whatever all the way down. Click any of them. I searched like control F on my computer first touchdown score. I don't think I got anything. So maybe I tried NFL. I found the rules. Very explicitly states in the rules that defense and special teams is not a part of this like explicitly. It's the it's rolled down a tweet. That's right there. Someone puts it. If someone actually responded to this tweet. No, no, he. So someone told them and he did it. Look, click it. It's not even. Yeah, click it right there, Zach. Yeah, the defense selection does not include special teams. Now listen, this rule could have more clarity. I totally agree with that. But like you're going to take to Twitter to just annihilate a sports book for your own personal mistake is what it comes down to. Like you have to be aware of house rules when betting. There's I know. Listen, I know that every every shop has different rules. Nobody wants to read through every single thing. But if you're going to bet specific markets where things can be interpreted in different ways, at least no, because this prop is price differently depending on whether special teams or is included or not. It's not a big difference. But you will price at difference differently. So be aware of that. Well, also I've seen like most sports books that I've seen say D slash special teams. Yes. And if you just see defense, I wouldn't naturally assume, oh, this must include special teams. Like I would try to find out if it did before I just went away and was like, oh, this is going to include that. The challenge here is that a lot of people won't even think about it, right? They're just be like, I think the Dallas defense is going to score it. Like did he think that the special team is fantasy, right? Fantasy is DSTC is so see with that. Well, there's a lot of other books that include DST. So the reality is just shop and honestly, like just there you go. The way the way I see it is this. Okay. When you're looking at this stuff, be sharp. Be fucking sharp. Okay. Look at it and be like Dallas defense does include it. I'll give you guys another one right now. So Fandall does the same thing. When you're betting a UFC fighter, it'll say by TKOKO, all the other books say TKOKO DQ. When a guy gets disqualified from an eye poke and the other guy wins and then people say, are you kidding me? What the hell? How did he not win on this? He won on every other book. Be sharp. That's in that's in the thing. Like look at it and actually read it before you place a bet. And if you're not happy with that, don't place your TKOKO bets on Fandall. Place them somewhere else where you get the where you get the free DQ because one in every hundred of those, you're going to win instead of a loss. Let's say it's like plus 200 on average. There you go. That's that's massive to your total ROI. So just the way you'd shop for a line, shop for these little, these little things because it matters, man. Like defense slash special team. Sure. How often does a special team's titter happen? Like versus for the first such like I'm imagine, imagine they return the opening cake off to the house and you think you want like doesn't stop. Yeah. Listen, like my emphasis with this one is what really got me this, we don't do tweets that trigger me or Twitter us anymore. Trigger us anymore. I don't really wouldn't know what happened. We just kind of fell by the wayside. This would have been a tweet that triggers us because of the final two words, which is scumbag move as if like it's in the terms, it's in the it's in the terms of the book, you're betting. It's different if they if if it's not and it's like open to interpretation. Yeah, like that plus the analytics thing. Absolute scumbag move. But like ultimately, you know, it's it's there for this guy's defense by the way, because I don't want to I don't want to roast him like this kid. He put this up. He realized right after that, it wasn't a scumbag move and like whatever. So it is what it is. He realized like that. But yeah, my my advice on this to everybody, everybody is be sharp, look at it, figure out what the actual betting includes because there's a I mentioned that UFC TK OKO situation. There's plenty of other ones that are like this across multiple sports. So just be careful. The one thing I will say is that I don't find that ruling in the sports book rules to be satisfying enough for me. So I'll explain. But let's say a team tried a fake punt. And it got written in the first score got returned to the house on inter interception. How would this have been ruled? Let's let's say the New York Giants are punting. They do a fake punt. They throw the ball. It gets intercepted and returned for a touchdown. So you they're going to have to they're going to have to classify it as yeah, honestly, that's the one scenario where you don't know if it's DST. So this so my my thing is like while I while I don't like this tweet in specific, I also I'm not willing to say like all the sportsbooks do it right. There are things that are in there that need to be ironed out. I'm not sure if that situation when the last time that situation happened was but then you would have then you could take to Twitter in my opinion and be like this is not covered in the rules. I assume that this is a defensive touchdown for the Cowboys scumbag move. My two cents on the situation. There's not one. That one is impossible to tell what that is. I don't I don't actually know what that clap is classified. Fake punt is probably special teams. Yes, but when it's in return for a touchdown via interception defensive score. Yeah, so I pick six. That's a defensive score. Or what if it was what if it was a like a punter went to throw it before he threw it. He got sack mumble six. I don't know, man, but he's that dear ST craze. I am available to review every sportsbooks rules by the way house rules and find all of the stuff that's missing because I do this naturally for a fee. I do well, of course, of course, I think I'm doing this for free. And I'm not the only person who does this. Another for a for a completely the wrong word. My English sucks. I don't even want to say beef. But let's say just an an interaction on Twitter that I found interesting this week was with RX gamble. RX gamble says tweets. I like to wind down after a long day by reading terms and conditions a story about one sportsbooks error. And then it's an article on unabated.com about getting a teaser edge at a specific sportsbook, which she found strictly by reading the terms and conditions. Abnormally dist who we had on previously pretty well respected better in the space replied to this and said isn't that kind of scummy. I know these are mean multinational corporations. Sure, but we but we should still have a moral compass arguing that there is some sort of integrity issue with doing stuff like this. And I'm going to side with RX gamble on this one because ultimately I think as a better you're looking for ways to get an edge. I don't know though because I can on different days I can see how someone might compare it to like poker and maybe doing things at a poker table that are considered maybe not wrong but a little bit unethical calling the clock on somebody after you know short amount of time when they're making a decision or stuff like that. But ultimately like you're in the business of trying to win when you're betting. Some people aren't. Some people are in the business of entertainment. But if you're trying to win I think everything is fair game. Like is this a clear and obvious error that someone's trying to take advantage of or is it just like this is the sportsbook put out put out these rules like it's almost one of the first things I do if I'm if I have downtime it's like how can I find an edge at this point. I got a question for you. Yes. This is a good one. Okay. Let's say you have a call it a betting partner in this scenario. Yep. You're you're you have like a figure each way. Yep. Okay. For the simplicity the figure we're going to go $10,000. Okay. So it's not it's not something that's like life changing money but it's also not a hundred bucks. Okay. Ten grand. You're confirming the figure at the end of the week. This guy says Rob I owe you 10 grand. But really he doesn't owe you anything. You confirm when your figure is actually a wash. Yep. So he's given you a 10k error in your favor. Okay. Hear me out though. Yep. This is the kind of guy where you believe in your mind. If the rules were reversed he would take that 10k from you. Yep. So what do you do? Do you message him and say uh yep check on the figure send me the 10k or do you say actually figures wrong or a wash this week. Keep in mind this is a person who you believe. Yep. Would take the 10k from you. So this this scenario it is very much related. Yes. Is that what would you do in this scenario? I would honestly give the money back. Like you'd give the money back or or not collect the money. That's the honest thing. You'd you'd you'd say no figure doesn't check or washed. Yes. I would say I mean that that's how you do figures generally speaking right. Someone reaches out to you. Here's the figure for the week confirm and the other party would confirm and say like I got the same or I don't. There have been times before where people like overreport what they owe me and I'll go back to them and be like no this is not what this is not matching what I have and you get to the bottom line. I don't know that's just the way that I generally do business because I even if I don't like the person and believe me I deal with people that I don't like all the time. Fair enough. But like from this point of view so then why wouldn't she just tell the sportsbook? Yeah it's wrong. You overpaid me. I mean because again the sportsbook wouldn't it wouldn't tell you oh you accidentally deposited twice we forgot about it whatever it's in the thing they're not going to do nothing's going to happen then they're going to keep that money. I would say I have a thought on this though I think the difference in this one is almost like more the thing I would relate it to be like the NHL example of the salary cap where the NHL is the league like the sportsbook then you've got other players that you're playing against within that. Yep. So Rob, Johnny, RX gamble abnormally diss you guys are all players within the market of Fendule being the NHL here. Well the NHL sets a salary cap. The Tampa Bay Lightning put a bunch players on the injured reserve and go against so that they don't have to face the cap penalty they can go over the cap for the entire regular season and then bring those guys back in the playoffs because it doesn't count. Is that maybe a scummy move to the other players who are looking at it and can't get to that or can't find that the Leafs or whatever they can't use the cap the salary cap relief well it's up to the NHL to change that it's up to Fendule to change that rule not the player themselves to say that they're playing within the rules the rules allow them to do that. Yeah I largely agree with that you you want to win a board game you've look at the rules and you find the headnotges and you go of course but like that's how I that's how I ascribed subscribe to life basically so that but that's why I'm asking you this one is in this scenario you can pretty much know that the book is not going to return that favor to you right correct so that's why I asked if it was a betting partner would you stick would you take the money or would you wash it you said you'd wash it so you should probably wash it with the book I've been thinking about it for a couple minutes now and I still would wash it like that's that's but I think why I have this belief is because dealing with a person versus a sportsbook versus a company yeah exactly it's very different like I'll give you an example but you know that person wouldn't do the same for you oh of course the same way the book but here's an example so why is it different I'll explain let me try to think of like a real life example that I can use here okay here's here's what I deal with other betters all the time who will quote me prices on games right because as as betters like let's say we like opposite sides of an NHL NFL game this weekend we could just handshake deal for a hundred bucks and like we don't pay vague yeah right give me the barriers give the package yeah exactly see we don't have the money okay why am I gonna go bet a sportsbook and pay you know whatever and you do the same thing doesn't make any sense handshake deal whatever so that happens a lot in this space where I just get quoted prices from other people or people tell me who they like and if we like the other side we just kind of agree to like some sort of midpoint price whatever now let's say I'll use a real life example I think this is fine to tell at this point because it's not ruining an edge and it happened in real life but this is where we get the real info okay the NHL All-Star game that happened in Las Vegas a couple years ago one of the events was filmed prior to the actual broadcast yeah the old pre-determined event yeah it was at the fountains or whatever the winner was why only Pavelski Joe Pavelski was the winner was widely known that he was gonna be the winner it was up everywhere at sportsbooks and we bet that I bet that I made a lot of money off of that got paid at a variety of different books that had that that particular it was like a shooting challenge it was the shooting stars yeah right if someone else had reached out to me and like like let's say I was just dealing with another person I normally deal with and said hey Rob here is here are some odds for the NHL All-Star game or I like this guy for the the shooting challenge or whatever I would have just said to them like I'm not gonna take your money like this outcome is already known I would have actually said that to the person but in the case of the sportsbook I'm going out and betting it it's because I don't associate that sportsbook with humans for some reason you know what I'm getting at it doesn't feel like I'm taking money from other humans even though you kind of are it just doesn't feel that way we're conditioned to like want to beat the sportsbooks not to like take money from other people it's natural I mean like listen I don't I I agree like people will feel fine stealing a thing from Walmart but not from a buddy yeah it's just that same mentality they're like oh like what do I care if I steal from Walmart they're not never gonna notice like that's what people say I'm saying that's crazy this came up like this thread came up in a side chat of mine with some friends and they were throwing out like other examples that pertain to poker like some angle shooting and stuff like that we're like people intentionally don't pretend like they don't know it's it's on them and like they act out of turn to mislead other people like I don't think that these are apples to apples comparison you're saying people like putting in chips into the pot when it's not there turn then that guy folds before exactly making it look like they're strong or making it you know that there's there's all sorts of that stuff that happened and like poker players you know I know I don't want to say anything to rogatory about poker players I'm not I'm not sure that every poker player is a scumbag but like there's a lot of stuff that happens in poker that is not like a real comparison to sports and I don't know I I would still suggest to anyone out there that if you were to read through a sports books rules and you found something that you can exploit try to exploit it I'm not the guy that's gonna be messaging the book every single time they have a bad price and be like hey your price is way off market on this like what are we doing like where do we draw the line on what we can and can't do are you the guy is going to be messing the book saying hey can you put up odds for Joe Pavelski to win this you hey I noticed that you don't have the odds on Joe Pavelski and this will waterfall shoot out that they're having at the Bellagio yeah I mean like where do you draw the line right she's she's taking advantage of something that's mispriced so when you're betting aren't you trying to do the exact same with everything else aren't you if you're trying to take advantage of stuff that's misprice I want message and a prominent offshore to put up odds for for a specific event like hey put up the odds for this already and then they responded back saying no period and and you know exactly why I hope you didn't do it from your actual real name or or account I don't have I don't have a message a sports book for a market to go up do not ever do it from your own account like don't contact customer service but from customer service from your own account like talking to an agent they hey can we please get this market that's a surefire way of getting me getting you profiled and limited surefire except for that pinnacle they don't limit you all right so what else we got here Rob I mean how long have you been going here Zach about 50 minutes 50 you want to go plus cv negative vv close it off yeah all right Zach so I know you uh you you already used up your uh your negative vv but you got your you got your plus um yeah plus cv this is the first time that I've really got to do this and it's pretty sick now living in our own apartment like at home my dad dolphins fan he wants to watch the dolphins that's it so other to me want to watch any other games it's up to me um we had the multi-tv set up going and like that's my plus it's it's legit the plus cv it's it's the best thing ever because all you have to do is we had one tv on red zone and then we had the big tv on the game that we wanted to watch and we were just flipping back and forth between channels and then outside of that it was like had another tv had other laptops going with other stuff going on and it's like this is it can't get any better than this at this point sat down on the couch spent the whole day there sitting there watching games the dream it was the the actual dream are you guys matching on plus cv's for this week so that was my plus cv but now I'm open my phone I'm gonna grab another one because I got a pivot maybe I can make it my negative you could be watching only one game and just inverse that shit but seriously that is the most plus cv thing imagine watching only one NFL game it's it's hard it's gonna deal to commercials too like you know how brutal commercials are in the NFL like you like look at the prime times man they'll literally get you with the old sometimes they'll get you with the old um two minute warning punt commercial back-to-back so you went to the commercial then you go then it's a punt or like a kickoff or something yeah and then they rip you another and then and then they'll come back and you'll see like a time I'll be back in 30 seconds like are you kidding me I haven't seen a plus snap in 17 minutes dude my my roommates are Texas Finn and we were watching the Texas Alabama game and it was like that was the one that was on the TV you didn't want to switch off because you didn't want to miss any snaps and is like commercial for like two minutes on commercials they come back exactly what you said punt commercial they get you they get you sometimes that's very sour you know when I was growing up like we didn't have red zone I don't want to make this I'm like I'm not much older than you guys but like a decade more than older than Zach and I used to basically run a version of red zone from my own house like yeah yeah that's what I do now I had the laptop I'm not I'm not a believer in red zone by the way I like red zone but it's it's because of needing to do content that night you know what I'm saying like if I was if I was not doing anything other than just betting I would only pick the games that I've bet on and I would have those up and everything else I would just watch the next day or consume afterwards but because I'm doing betting content the night of I have to kind of be in tune with everything that happens over the course of the day so it changes my perspective you know I'm saying yeah yeah absolutely but back in the day I used to open up CBS Sports Line on my laptop in front of me before this is the sickness that I had before the day started and my friends got over I memorized the channels of which each game was gonna be on so anytime a team got into red zone or something happened I was able to I was running red zone like a one-man show for my own house my friends were like this is like we're coming here every week there's no way we're going back to Bruno's house next week to watch you know two games on one on this little t dinky TV like yeah this ain't happening yeah okay so with that being said that's my negativity move of the week then because I've I've logged some hours with buddies here throughout the years negative EV move of the week is being the TV remote guy for NFL especially with a four screen so I've only had a good good buddy of mine's got a five screen setup occasionally go over there I used to have the three screen setup back at my old place now I roll with the four screener the problem is you just really got to be so precise on the remote going up with the box otherwise you're going to change too and that's an issue here with Rogers over in Canada if you're the guy who's changing the remote I'm working on a Rogers sponsorship right now yeah that would go to cut that we got to cut that off okay no I'm just job just job Johnny my backup is doubling down on your negative EV here as well I'm not okay so so hear me out though hear me out when we look at this and you're the guy doing the remote you have betting you have what games a good game especially near the end of the games man near the end of the games because there's people who have there's all there's like you know 10 guys watching let's say multiple people have bets on different things this couple guys are awful on each other you got fantasy matchups where a guy wants to watch this guy in the red zone yeah and on top of that sometimes you'll have a game where you just want to watch the end of that game right like always is going to OT like it's a good game you have four screens you're flying guys like put on the cardinals game another guy's like you piece of shit why are you gonna watch the cardinals game is nothing he's like no I got the red skins for a backdoor live bet cover and you can never make anyone happy you're just there just getting shit on all day at the end of the day you've literally never made anyone happy and everyone somehow is mad at you for being the TV remote guy and you dealt with the stress plus if you fuck up once hit the guide and then you hit all four TVs on the guide they're gonna throw you literally losing it on you it's actually insane I like being the remote guy but it's because I do a tough job it's a hard job I like I like the pressure you like it listen listen a good remote guy on a Sunday yeah invaluable of course man they should be paying they should be I would pay I pay a remote guy yeah ice in his brain I actually would pay a good remote guy on this like who else is gonna memorize the channels know exactly where we're going that's easy anyone can memorize well of course they can but who's gonna do it nobody nobody pre plans like I do I usually write them on a little sheet for the one o'clockers and then by like by mid first quarter you got those off course of course that's exactly where you're going so that's my negative EV move of the week positive EV move of the week staying on the football Sunday thing here positive EV move this was the first Sunday yep of my life I think that I didn't eat a tremendous amount of just horrible for you food okay for Sunday football yeah normally every year prior it's like oh yeah you do basically what happens is you go in the morning you're getting some bets and someone's like go on McDonald's breakfast you want Tim's breakfast you're getting the farmers rap you're getting a couple egg McMuffins breakfast bagels ice cap whatever so you already have that in the morning which is disgusting breakfast and then literally as soon as one o'clock hits and the game start like the as soon as you turn on like the first game kicks off someone's like let's order a pizza like you you have to someone so someone's in order a couple of pizzas got to garlic dips wings whatever just again gross food you pig out and then for the night midway through for those Canadians like you're obviously getting a Timbo's around you're getting a couple you're getting 10 bits ice caps whatever guy might bring the take 12 if you know you know and then and then at night you may even still get like real sandwiches or like something at night as well so every year for the past like 12 years I just mean eating like complete shit on Sundays finally this Sunday packed a lunch oh my God salad and some chicken and let me tell you positive you move of my life I went home and didn't feel like shit for the first time in Sunday history during an NFL season and I'm going to try to keep it up as much as I can healthiest men alive right here maybe a little bit under the weather right now but actually is that maybe it's because it's just the chicken and salad I should have got to reach his ponzo you should have got a ponzo I should have got to reach his your body was sitting there saying like what is this it's Sunday John yeah yeah they're like I didn't even and it's mindset because you're like watching those games and as soon as you're watching it's like you're back in the same setting of NFL yeah check my fantasy match up and I'm like I need some garlic dip in a pizza nova yes anyways I'm done I'm done those were that that's my positive negative VV I had to add a little bit for this weekend and have those prep but there you go okay positive VV I'll pick you back off that off your health kick um I'm not the healthiest person I'm diabetic I don't really eat super well for a diabetic but I manage my diabetes well but lately I've been packing on a ponds here you can't really you people look at me they're like I skinny whatever is like 175 pounds soaking wet which is true but the stomach is getting big and I keep telling myself every day I'm like you got a walk man you got to just go for walks I get out of the house or whatever but the time comes to like will yourself to I don't have the willpower so here's what I did I'm the biggest geek huge nerd I can open myself up to fire for this one I downloaded Pokemon go on my phone it is the plus Evie plus Evie move of life because it is such a good walking companion game that I can get out and go on literally five kilometer walks with this game and it feels like I'm honestly embarrassed for Rob I know I could not okay you know what imagine thinking you need Pokemon go I do I need to exercise but okay it will not feel like exercise at all it's different like I have a home gym right I am in my in my house it's very different it's not like bare bones pull up bar chest stuff whatever you know like I can do stuff there and as I walk by that during football season I'll find myself exercising because it's there but to actually get out of the house and go for a walk and do cardio that's a completely different story and with access to a companion app where it feels like you're just playing a game instead of actually walking you end up going out a lot more and you have FOMO when you're at home because you're like oh fuck like I'm not going to be able to get this like this gym battle and whatever it's it's completely changed everything for me I walked 35 kilometers last week man like I don't do that regularly I'll say this and I genuinely mean it if we lost you as a subscriber that's that's honestly okay that's fine by me and and let's I hope I hope you stay oh no no no I hope you stay I hope I hope people are walking around right now catching Pokemon go listening to this if you want to get some good exercise in open your phone and smash that like button absolutely obliterate that sense drive but you only want to do it once though don't keep pressing it because then it goes on and off and off so just one smash make sure you smash that like and subscribe button we appreciate are you missing one more yeah we got my mind CV go ahead okay minus CV if the first when you sit down in your car you're gonna go up for a drive doesn't matter where you're gonna go if the first thing you do is not type in where you're going on the GPS that gives you like live traffic and what I'm not agreeing more with this this is the best guaranteed you redeemed yourself from the last one so this is these all come from personal experiences obviously you redeemed yourself big time this is the most this is I guess a plus if you move to do it negative to not do it neck yeah it could it could have went either way but the first thing you should do is always put in your destination on your GPS if it's directly in your car on your phone whatever because there will be times where there's a road closure or there's some sort of accident or there's like a bike marathon there's all sorts of shit going on where you think that you're doing an eight minute drive to the same place you've gone to you made the same drive a million times over you know exactly where you're going that eight minute drive turns into 45 minutes because you didn't check your phone don't be stupid like I've been before just type it in even if even if it's anywhere just just make it a habit first thing you do because your time is very valuable and there's nothing worse than just being log jammed in traffic and being like why the fuck did I not just take this other road and it's because he didn't know but not even before not even as soon as you get in the car before you even leave just know exactly how long it's going to take plan your way because we get up to date traffic now via map apps which is just phenomenal yeah imagine back in the day it's a go print it out online how to get somewhere if you don't like I did an entire no idea of the of the traffic I did an entire east coast road trip three and a half weeks eastern Canada Quebec City through Halifax up to PI came back down ended up in Boston I did an entire three and a half week road trip using only printed out maps from map quest back in the day I ended up on a logging trail on the Bay of Fundy and I'm like I don't think we should be here and everyone in the car is like no no no it's good it's maps have been good or whatever I'm just going further and further in I'm like no I'm pretty sure this isn't even a road like at at this point like the possibility of flat tire and us dying out here is increasing they're like no no keep going I'm sure it's gonna open up I just ended up so deep on this logging trail it took like two hours to reverse out of it crazy it's nuts it's like we're I was an SUV at the time but yes those days you need the maps you need the maps you definitely need the maps and you definitely need to subscribe here as Zach pulls up his Pokemon go on his phone thank you Zach for supporting it's 2v1 like no no buddy dude 2v1 you're never gonna get me on plane of a phone game yeah but in general because you had a lone Pokemon go you're saying and it's not even that you play it that I'm not I'm not mad it's not that you play it it's that you said this is a good move for me to get exercise yeah imagine being so weak mind yes that you needed to download Pokemon go to go for a walk yes and that is just a disappointment we're gonna close it off right I remember so 190 admittedly it is very I will admit it's very disappointing that I literally cannot go for a walk like I take my dog for a walk but he's old and he's like he doesn't want to go more than a block so it's like I got to take him around drop him off at home and then I'm not gonna keep going out myself like it's I don't do it for exercise I'm I'm also the strongest man on the podcast so pinnacle oh yeah okay buddy pinnacle sports code hammer support the show sign up if you want to see how good the odds are in comparison check out bet stamp download on iOS Android bet stamp dot app on the web really really really powerful tool for NFL especially because we got all the player props on there as well in addition to regular game lines half lines things like that and futures futures as well so check out bet stamp please please please play it pinnacle it helps support the show helps us keep it running you've been seeing Rob's additional content you showing you guys how to win for for literally no reason anyways good night see you guys next week peace