Picture Miami. Picture its beaches. Picture three radio journalists.
Assassinated in cold blood.
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The mastermind has never been caught. To find him, we had to go deep into a world of drugs and darkness.
And there were these hints of a much bigger conspiracy.
This year I clearly gave with me in light.
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Our 20s are often seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives.
But what can psychology teach us about this time?
I'm Gemma Spegg, the host of the psychology of your 20s.
Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s.
From career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, and much more to explore the science behind our experiences.
The psychology of your 20s, hosted by me, Gemma Spegg.
Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, hi everybody. Hi, Catherine.
Oh, hi, Chelsea.
Hi, what's going on? It's May.
We're deep in the throes of bang. This year is going by very quickly.
So fast.
Yes, what's happening? I don't like it.
It just like rained for several months and then all of a sudden it's summer.
Yes, yes. It's summertime is coming and that means my family is coming.
Oh, who's visiting?
Everybody's visiting. No, no, no, no. No one's visiting.
I actually am homeless in June. I become homeless.
Oh no.
July and August. Yes, my house is not ready until August.
And I decided to give up my rental because it just makes no sense that I've been in this rental and I'm home twice a week.
Yeah, so I take a couple of months off of touring and I'm just going to bounce around Europe and Africa.
That's a great place. Those are a couple of great places to be homeless.
All my nieces to Africa.
Can't wait. Can they be amazing? Have they been before?
No, none of them have been. Only my sissy and I have been to Africa.
We're going back together and we have that.
She's like, you're going to be really sick of me or which is code four.
She's going to be sick of me and my fucking mood swings.
But we have two weeks together and then we have one week of just a romantic couple
in the villa, right? Yeah.
And then I have three weddings. I have Ben Bruno's wedding.
I have my cousin Ted, his wedding, and then I have someone else's wedding.
I'm a groomsman at Ben Bruno's wedding. So that's a lot of responsibility.
But that's the only thing I'm flying back for it.
So I'll be in the States for a weekend for Ben Bruno's wedding.
Just like jet lagged AF and then I'll leave again.
No, I think when I fuck around that quickly, it doesn't have time to catch up.
You know what I mean? If I go in and out real quick of time zones, then it doesn't matter.
Then it's like fine. Yeah.
Oh no.
Well, I am abandoning my husband to go to Mexico for a week with a couple of my girlfriend.
Nice. I know. I'm very excited.
For a whole week?
For about like five days. Yeah.
Like four nights, five days. Yeah.
We've got like a little spot that we love to go and me and the same two girlfriends have gone
like the last few years. Nice.
And it's awesome. Nice. Very nice.
So he has three pugs to take care of all by himself.
Love you.
Well, they'll probably be perfectly trained by the time you get home.
Of course they will. They'll be seven whole months old.
Well, hey Chelsea, just like you and your sister, she's looking to become a midlife lesbian.
Oh, is she? Oh, wow. Well, that must be a reflection of your performance, Brad.
Well, I do try.
Well, not hard enough, I guess.
Well, whoopsie doodle.
Well, on that note, should we intro our guest for today? I'm so excited.
Oh, yes. We have the Reformed Mormon on my favorite topic of conversation, Mormonism.
Yes. And you know what? I'm not a big housewives fan, but the real housewives of Salt Lake City
is the only one that I actually watch and Heather is my favorite. I think she's great.
She's her. I'm just going to say for the record, I don't watch the housewives. I've never seen
the housewives. I saw one episode once as a favorite of my assistant to try and figure out
what she's interested in. And then I decided I'm not interested. Anyway, so I just want to make
that disclaimer because I don't want to pretend that I've seen a show that I haven't seen.
There. Even though that's probably polite for the guest, our guest is a housewife. And she's
currently starring in the Real Housewives Ultimate Girls Trip, Thailand. And she recently opened
the second location of Beauty Lab and Laser in Utah. And she is a New York Times Best-selling
author of Bad Mormon, owner of Beauty Lab and Laser and star of Bravo's Real Housewives of Salt
Lake City. Heather Gay. Hi, Heather. Hi, I'm so nervous. Oh, don't be. Don't be. We're gonna
have fun. I just hit the inhaler. Oh, I need a hit of an inhaler. Do you have another one?
Fuck. I should have brought my inhaler. The say Chelsea's and Halers have a little more
tea in them. I just, I just, yeah, exactly. I just was pulling out the things that are in my purse
that my housekeeper packs me up with every day because I'm like a little baby going off to school
every time I leave the house. And she has like little stones, crystals, gummies with THC. And then
a little heart, a little heartstone that says strength. And she's like, this is so funny. I go,
I know. I, but what I'm missing is a fucking inhaler. It's like a diaper bag.
Diper bag. Exactly. You need an inhaler and then like a quiet book and some Cheerios and that's like,
you can write it up. Exactly. All right, Heather, there's no reason to be nervous. What are you
nervous about? Are you nervous about talking? Are you nervous about the questions I'm going to ask?
I'm just nervous because I'm excited. You know, I'm like, this is a big, big moment for me, Chelsea
Handler, you know, I'm trying to like not be too effusive and just be cool. Just be cool. That's
my mantra. Just be cool. Be cool. Be cool. Yeah. Great. That's a great start.
Heather. Yes. So Heather, we, I read your book. We both read your book about leaving Mormonism.
And I speak for both Catherine and myself when I say we are fascinated by Mormons. Yes. And
Chelsea has a family connection. I do have a family connection because my sister was a Mormon
for a while. And then I think she slowly stepped out of it. She hasn't brought it up in years. So
we just pretend that that's over. I mentioned it. But my mom was Mormon and she was from Germany
actually. And she grew up Mormon, which is interesting. And then they came over to the United States.
So I know a little bit about Mormonism. Well, I guess I probably know more than the average
person because I lived with her. And we had, you know, the church at our house all the time. And
what I do find very amusing though, in modern times in today's times is that what Mormon people
do to avoid having sex that actually is sex. Like what is it called? I've done these things.
I'm joking. I'm kidding. All the things. And it's like, hey, guys, that's fucking just so you know,
you're still having sex. Any hole but the holy hole. That's the mantra. Yeah, yeah. I hate when
religion tells you not to have sex. Religion is the root of all evil as well. Okay, so tell us about
your departure because it happened probably as a result of you being on the housewives, right?
Of Salt Lake? Yeah, I mean, going on housewives for sure like ripped the bandaid off. It'd been kind
of a slow bleed. But with like the church, you just don't leave when you're surrounded by it.
It's your family and it's everybody. You just don't talk about it. If you're not living it,
you do it squealy and silently, you know, behind the closed doors. But you toe the line and you play
the game. And I have been doing that for years. And then but I knew that if I went on reality
television, I had to own it one way or the other. Either had to become a devout Mormon again,
which was out of the cards and probably would take like a huge disciplinary process through
the church for that to happen. Or I had to just stop right there. What kind of disciplinary
processes are there? Okay, well, every you meet with your local leaders regularly. So like you
meet with them quarterly or anytime that you get a new assignment or anytime there's a shakeup,
like with leadership and they are men in your neighborhood that you go to church with weekly.
So they're not kind they're not like guys, you can pull the wool over their eyes. It's men that like
know if you're showing up to church, they know you're in the community, they know if you're
wearing a modest clothing, they know if you're messing around, they know you, you know, they're
your neighbors and your friends and they are also your leaders and they're in charge of you. So you
have to answer very specific a list of questions every time you meet with them in order to like
get a calling or go to the temple and have your temple license, which we call a temple recommend
renewed. And it's a digitized just like a driver's license. You go to the temple, they scan it.
If it beeps, you get to go in. If it doesn't, you are on your out on the street. You're on probation.
To answer those questions wrong, then there's a disciplinary process and they decide
how bad it was. If you messed up, like if you said I drank a beer, you could probably just
handle it with your bishop locally right there. But if you had an affair, if you had sex, if you
associated with any anti-mormon group, if you weren't wearing your garments day and night,
then they would kick it up to a regional leader. And that regional leader would determine if the
sins were merited a disciplinary council, which is a group of 12 men from the surrounding area
called area authorities. And they're your friends' husbands. Like it's not just a panel. It's like
the people that you go to church with that you see it's the principal. It's like the entire
community, like the doctor, the baker, the candlestick maker. And they're all just kind of like
handmaids tail. They're all sitting at a, around a table in white shirts, ties and suits. And you
sit there and you tell them all of your sins. You tell them how many times you've had sex with
the person or drank or, you know, stepped out. Anytime you've broken the rules, they make you
detail. It's kind of like a, a venting of an airing of sin. It's kind of like Scientology.
Yeah, like an audit, I guess. It would be similar to like an audit. And then they determine,
they meet, they send you out and then they determine your punishment. And it can be
excommunication. It can be probation. It can be called dis fellowship. And dis fellowship means
you can't take the sacrament. You can't say public prayers. You can't teach lessons, but you still
have not lost your baptismal covenants. If you're excommunicated, you have to get rebaptized. You
have to go through the missionary discussions. You have to pretend like you're a virgin in the
Mormon church. Wow. And I think it's so interesting too that you say like a panel of men because it is
men. It's not a jury of your peers, including women and other people. It is just men who are the leaders
of the Mormon church. I mean, really religion is the beginning of patriarchy. Yeah, absolutely.
It really was because before that, we were a matriarchal society and it became patriarchal
because of religion. So when you left, your mother's still part of the church, right?
Yeah, my whole family except for two siblings are all active devout members that have never
acknowledged the book, have not sent a text, not sent a note, not mentioned it at Christmas dinner.
Nothing. It's like it doesn't exist. The show existed for the first few months. Like they would
talk about it because it was kind of titillating and fun and might be innocuous. But then once I
wasn't speaking well of the church, once I was drinking on camera, you know, swearing, doing all
the things, then they acted like they just turned the television off and it doesn't exist either.
Denial is also part of religion is to complete denial of reality or things that don't, you know,
vibe with what you're putting out there. Totally. We were just talking about this, like,
how you're going on a real housewives sort of was at the same time as you were starting to leave
the church or have these sort of epiphanies of like, maybe this isn't for me. And that you're
bishop when you asked him if you should go on the show, actually said like, yes, but take a glass
of milk anytime you're at a party with alcohol. So you're presenting the appearance of not drinking.
Like, yeah, the facade is something that I find so interesting in what you talk about.
Well, we believe it's like a codependence. Like we have a responsibility to not only share the
gospel and convert everyone in our circle, but to represent for like anyone in around us. We
don't speak or dwell on sin. We don't talk about it. Like when I got my reckless driving, he's like,
don't speak of it. This is not part, you know, just stamp it out, forget it ever happened.
And you think that that would be like, that would cultivate a culture of positivity,
but it's really just a culture of shame and secrecy. Also, we're supposed to be the happiest
people on earth. So it's a big, you know, there's a conflict there. There's an edge.
Is that what Mormons think they are the happiest people on earth?
Well, we believe that the plan, the Mormon plan is the plan of happiness and that men are that they
might have joy. You know, that is, and your righteousness is absolutely, you know, how
Jewish people can be like upset and Jewish and it's like, they can still be devout Jews.
Mormons, if you don't have a smile on your face, you must not be righteous. You must not be blessed.
You must not love the Lord because we believe that like our choices dictate our blessings and
happy people are blessed, you know, that's a sign of how blessed you are is how happy you are. So,
we're fronting not only just to ourselves, but to our community because it's status. The happier
you are, the higher your status. And do they care about money and wealth and all of that?
Yeah, individually. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think we're tempered, well-meaning, like,
frugal people, like we're resourceful and I don't think like I'm a spendthrift, but like we believe
like the only people that get the high leadership kinds are the extremely wealthy in the church,
because they have to have discretionary and time and income because they devote, you know, 30 hours
a week to shepherding the community as, you know, lay leaders in the church. So you can't, you can't
have a 50-hour a week job and also be a bishop, you know. And you're also the only religion, well,
maybe not the only religion. I think there's some Middle Eastern religions that also adhere to
this, but then you have living prophets like men are just named to be or deemed a prophet while
they're alive, which is such a crock of shit. I mean, if you want me to believe in prophets,
then they at least have to be dead. It's true. It's the true living prophet. We believe he's the
voice of God on the earth and he has 12 apostles that meet with him and they do a conference
semiannually and we all listen to it. It's hours long and at the last conference, they
denounced transgender, they denounced diversity, they denounced same-sex marriage, they denounced
everything, but at the same time, they're trying to like, I thought the church of Latter-day Saints
had put out a statement saying they accepted gay people into the church. They don't condone it,
but they accept them. No? As long as you don't act on it, you cannot make the law of chastity
between you. You cannot be gay, but you can't do it again. You can't cut or touch same-sex.
And the only people they get to have in our cisgender, heteronormative, heterosexual marriages.
But if you're gay and you put your penis in another woman's vagina, but you don't move it back and
forth, that's okay, right? You'll be heralded in heaven if you're gay and you put it in a vagina
and you do move it back and forth and you have children and you toe the line and you
raise a family up unto God and you deny your sinful feelings of homosexuality is how we would
look at it. Right. So just be a totally different person and you'd be fine. And then when you get
to heaven, God will fix you. And that's what I would tell my kids. You know, like, it wasn't really
that I like believed this whole heart. It's just what I lived. It was my neighbors. It was their
friends. It was what I did, you know, 20 hours a week. It was just my entire world. But as soon as I
had to answer a hard question, we would just say, God will figure it out. Don't worry about it,
you know, it'll never happen to us. And then you get divorced or then you get a DUI or whatever
happens if it's happening to you and your kids are growing up and you have to face them and you
have to face yourself. And if you go on TV, you have to face the TV audience. So there were some
hard stops that forced me to just to do this, to kind of leave openly and leave loudly. I wouldn't
say proudly, but loudly. Yeah, yeah, I like it. I'm behind you 100%. As they say, I'll say 175%.
No one's saying that. So this is a local question. I was just reading the paper over the weekend
about Salt Lake, the Lake of Salt Lake, the Great Salt Lake and how it's deteriorated. And it's
basically a quarter of the size it was even 20 years ago. I have a question. Do you know if this
crazy snowfall that you guys got and around Salt Lake City is going to change the size of that lake?
Mormons have been praying for moisture every single prayer in church and constantly. And so
because we've been seeing the Great Salt Lake dry up and it's a sign of the end of days last coming
and or global warming, you know, we've been thinking of it just like that. And I mean, it was snowing
this morning. It was a blizzard this morning. So I'm hoping, but you know, I don't care much about
the moisture and the Great Salt Lake, I should, but I'm just not deeply invested. It smells.
I know. Well, I just don't want to deal with the what's happening in this world right now.
It is so scary. And oh, anyway, sorry, I digress. So I want to talk about your relationship with
your mom. So your mom, ex, are you ex, she's not talking to you because you left the church, right?
Yeah, I mean, in a nutshell, yeah, like I saw at Christmas, we didn't even exchange Christmas
greetings, barely. I gave her like a stiff hug and then everybody just ignored me and said,
how are you keeping busy? And what are you going to do when your youngest graduates from high school?
And I thought, live my life. I mean, they just don't. It's just this really weird, strained
thing that I feel like, why am I here? Like, why am I like pandering to these people and acting like
they, they are interested in anything I'm doing when they're totally making me feel crazy.
And why are you there? So your children have a relationship with your family or because you
really do. I mean, I'm sure you still would like a relationship, but I mean, I've thought a lot
about that because Christmas was a little bit more intense. The book was coming out in February,
was right there, all the press was hitting. And I thought about it. And I think that one,
I don't want to be one of those weird people that their family hates them. You know, it just seems
like it's like this sign that you're troubled. I think there's art of that that like wants that
validity or reassurance. But also for my kids, I feel that. And also I grew up with tons of cousins
and I grew up with this like multi generational family feel and Sundays where everyone getting
together and Christmas Eve, like all of my friends are with their 10 siblings and all their kids.
And I just, you know, I want that for them. And I feel like I have to create that. So I, you know,
chase after it, but it doesn't exist for me here. It's really me and my kids. And that's it, you know,
another interesting thing. The main thing that breaks up families is religion,
because gay people get separated from their families when they're religious. I mean,
isn't that so ironic when you think about it? Because even people still talk to their siblings
when they murder someone and their kids and their fathers. But if you're not religious and
I'm religious, then it's over. Yeah. I mean, my siblings won't extend like readings of love,
but they've all like made sure they did disparaging reviews of the book, you know, don't read it,
read the Book of Mormon instead. They feel like it's supporting me or supporting God. And if
you're up against God and someone's devotion to God, you're never going to win. You know,
I'm never, they're never going to pick me over their martyrdom. And it's just, it feels like
a endless battle. Like I keep saying maybe my next book will be bad love, how to escape toxic
families, because I don't want to have to go after them anymore and, and prove myself or
accept them or understand them or explain it. I just don't want to feel that sadness anymore.
Yeah. And how did your kids handle all the separation from the church and everything?
Well, they were like wary at first, but then when they realized, well, I think my college daughter,
when she realized that she could go to college and drink and be a true sorority girl,
she's living her best life. She's 19. You're a fan of Arbrah and I'm living vicariously through
her, you know, I just, it feels like a second life for me to watch her just party. And
when I went to parents weekend, she like came out in this bra thing and she's like,
it's lingerie. I turned into a shirt, you know, and when I was at college, I had to have cap sleeves.
I wasn't allowed to wear anything that didn't touch my knees or I'd get reported to the honor
code office, you know, like, it's just to see her like be kind of sex positive and free and party.
And she suggested a drink to me. And I was just like, whoa, you know, I just didn't grow up like
that. And it, it makes me feel like I broke the chain a little bit and my number two are into it.
Yeah, that must feel good for you, for your kids. It's good. It's a real mama bear move,
breaking that kind of cycle, you know, anything so restrictive, I just feel like it's such an
inhibitor to a person's development. Yeah, and I think it's what you said about the patriarchy,
too. I mean, I had three daughters and it's like, I've, I've raised them alone and I've never,
I've never needed their dad. I feel bad saying that, you know, but like I've done it on my own.
And I for them, it's more like that no restrictions, they can become and be whatever they want. And
I think that it really was healing for them to see their mom do this and not have to, you know,
we decorate the house how we want. We don't ask for money for the movies. Like we are a matriarchal
little society. And that makes me fucking proud. I like it. How's your relationship with your ex
husband? Well, I'm assuming you guys don't talk that much, but yeah, we don't talk to him. He's
more men, right? Yeah, he's more men. He, he like started doing spiritual thoughts with the girls
when he'd see them and trying to make sure that he could like countermand any negative influence.
I was giving them, but he's just not a big influence in our life. You know, he, he left and we just
have been on our own since the girls were little, you know, he left in 2011. Aren't you so glad he left?
I'm so glad. I'm so glad. I would have, I would have been one of those martyred moms just resentful,
probably, I don't know what I would have done, but I wouldn't have been the mom I wanted to be to my
kids because I would be trying to raise them so that he thought I was a good wife, you know,
and not raising them just to be these like spirit animals, whatever they want to be. And that feels
like the most freeing, honestly. Yeah, because whenever I read or hear about a breakup, because,
you know, when you're in the thick of it, obviously, it doesn't feel good and you can't see the forest
for the trees, but whenever I read or hear about it or I'm talking to someone, I'm like, I just want,
I want you to just have 30 seconds of a window into your life in six months. And you're going to say
thank you. Like, it's always, always okay. Everyone survives breakups over and over again. There is
a period of time where you think it's unsurvivable and then you move into the next phase. And then
you get to a phase where you're like, well, thank God, somebody ended that. So I didn't have to.
It's absolutely true. I think we need to change the narrative around it. Like,
change the narrative that women need a man to be completely satisfied and change the narrative
that divorces the scarlet letter and the market failure. Like, have a man in college, have a man
in to have kids with then raise them with somebody else and retire some notes or just be single
your whole life. Like, I will never remarry. I don't want my daughters to necessarily even put it on
their vision board. But I grew up with Hope, chess and baby names. And my dad said, I'll pay $100
for every baby you name off the sealed envelope. You know, it's just this weird concept of everything
I was raised to do is just to be a wife and mother. So I had to reframe all of that when it fell apart.
And all of that was steeped in religion, religion and the patriarchy. And also, instead of calling
it a breakup, we should just call it getting back together with ourselves. Yes. Yes. So, like,
I'm going back to me. I'm coming back for you, baby. I'm coming back for you. Circling back,
and then I'll branch out later down the road. For sure. What's happening with your love life
these days, Heather? Just like absolutely nothing. I mean, come on. I just for a while, I was like,
kind of trying hoping that like the celebrity and stuff would like get me laid and it would just
have like no, it's harder to get laid when you're a celebrity. Yeah. And I just think guys don't
really like strong, funny women. I just think they don't, honestly, it's just not attractive to.
No, it's not. It's not attractive because that's what they're supposed to provide. So,
if you're providing the same thing, they don't need it. They're like, well, wait, I'm the strong one.
Yeah. Why are you here? Yeah. They may think they like it, but when it's put into practice,
it's a much different endeavor. Although that's not to say, oh, man, obviously there are men out
there that can handle a strong woman. I've met them and I've dated some. Most of the ones I've
dated though have been brief. Maybe I wasn't able to recognize it, but it does sometimes
it's just show its head for a couple of months. You know what I mean? Yeah. But you should be
on some, I hope you're on some sites or something. I haven't gone online. I think I'm still kind
of steeped in this shame of like the spinster woman that's like trying to find a man. Like,
I don't know. Like, I feel like when I got divorced and I had kids that was over, like,
I had to just now be this mom, but now I'm at this space where I'm feeling myself a little bit.
I want to get out there, but I'm not online. And I also tend to just date like really young,
dumb guys that are just in it for the fun, you know, and that's just feels like treading water.
And it makes me feel validated and like I'm not dried up or I'm still active out there. But it's
just, it also feels a little bit just like spinning your wheels. I don't know if I'm comfortable enough
and my new identity to like be with the person. But it's still new. Yeah, it's still new. And
there's no rush. I mean, I take so much time to myself after every relationship just to get back
together with myself. Like I said, like I'm like, all right, I know I'm not going to be single
forever. You're not going to be single forever. There's going to be dalliances and there's going
to be relationships. That's just the nature of life and being a person that's outgoing enough to be
on television. Like, yes, it's harder to meet people I think when you're a celebrity because
it's just an awkward kind of mix. You know what I mean? It's strange. Like I go through my DMs and
when guys are like hitting on me or whatever, I'll take a look at their profile. But if it's
a private account, I'm not going to follow you to find out if you look like I'm not that desperate.
You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm going to look at it. Oh, okay. Because you can look through a
whole Instagram page and get a good idea of what kind of person you're dealing with. And I'm not
opposed to hooking up with a stranger on the road that hits me up. I'm down. I just have to make
two. I have to make sure that you're like normal and smart and not, you know, not an idiot and
you don't have like, you know, spiky jewelry or something. Like a samurai sword above your bed.
Any jewelry is a non-starter for me on a man. I don't want to see anything.
But anyway, okay, well, we're happy that you're here today. We're happy that you're a free of the
church, free of marriage and feeling yourself because that is the best combination that you
could hope for is to be able to, well, not combination. The best tenant I think for anybody is to be
feeling yourself. And I'm sure that it took you a long time to feel this good. Oh, for sure. I mean,
it's like within the last few weeks. It's really ever since I hit the best seller list. That's really
when it clicked. No arguing with the graduations on that. Thank you. Thank you. As we said before,
the book is called Bad Mormon in case you missed it. So make sure you pick up a copy so we can
keep Heather on the New York Times list. Yes, please. Okay. So Catherine, what do you have in
store for us? Oh, some good stuff. I am going to need your help getting one of our collars laid
ladies. Great. Coming from two people. We've got some mom stuff and we've got an
ex Mormon divorce thing going on. So we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back with Heather
and Chelsea. Picture Miami, picture its beaches, picture the palm trees swaying in the wind,
picture three radio journalists, assassinated in cold blood. This is silenced. The radio murders.
They left the body there for a reason. It was the calling card. It's like the mafia used to do.
And yet the mastermind has never been caught to find him. We had to go deep into a world of drugs
and darkness. And then there were these hints of a much bigger conspiracy. This year I clearly
gave a good life. I'm Osvylosian. Listen to silence, the radio murders. On the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Our 20s are seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, fall in love, make mistakes
and decide what we want from our life. But what can psychology really teach us about this decade?
I'm Gemma Spegg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a
unique aspect of our 20s from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, friendships and
much more to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences. Incredible guests,
fascinating topics, important science and a bit of my own personal experience. Audrey, I honestly
have no idea what's going on with my life. Join me as we explore what our 20s are really all about.
From the good, the bad and the ugly and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology,
including our 20s. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Spegg. Now streaming on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You don't have to have a
mental health diagnosis to benefit from good supportive mental health practices. I'm Eric Zimmer,
host of the One You Feed podcast where I interview thought-provoking guests who offer practical
wisdom you can use to support your mental health. 25 years ago, I was homeless and addicted to
heroin. I've made my way through addiction recovery and learned to navigate my clinical
depression and figured out how to build a fulfilling life. The One You Feed has over 30 million downloads
and was named one of the best podcasts by Apple Podcasts. An Oprah Magazine named us as one of 22
podcasts to help you live your best life. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and one small
action you can take to support your mental health today is to listen to an episode of the One You
Feed podcast. I've had nearly 600 conversations with world renowned experts and my understanding of
how to care for my mental health just continues to deepen with each episode. Learn what good mental
health can mean for you. Listen to the One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
you get your podcasts. And we're back! We're back! Hi! Hi! Hi Heather, Chelsea and Catherine. It's
Chelsea. It's great to be back. Well, our first email comes from Cara. Cara says,
Dear Chelsea, I'm the mother of three girls ages eight, five and two. My oldest who will turn nine
in September was just diagnosed with central precocious puberty syndrome and I am struggling.
So basically what that means is like she's just going through puberty super early.
She's already taller than most of the other kids in her class and has started to develop breasts
and other signs of puberty. We're a really open house and we talk about body parts and periods
and all of that but I'm struggling what I'm struggling with is teaching her body empowerment
and pride. She's absolutely gorgeous but feels out of place compared to the other girls in her
class. We're also at the stage where when we try to talk about things she gets embarrassed and either
shuts down completely or hello hormones lashes out and yells which she then feels terrible about
later. She's the only one in her class who has to wear a bra and some of the other kids have noticed
and asked why. I come from a long line of body shammers and struggle with my own self-image
so I try not to say things about my weight or my looks in front of my daughters unless I'm saying
how absolutely banging an outfit is that day. But yet I still feel like I'm failing. She will only
wear oversized t-shirts to school now even though she has a whole closet full of clothes she picked
out but has now decided she's quote too big for and will say things like I miss wearing that outfit.
Mornings are rough because getting everyone out the door and the outfit picking can lead to big
emotions. I just want her to feel comfortable and confident in her skin. Any suggestions? Thanks so
much Cara. You've raised three girls. So you go first Heather and you're the mother here. I mean
yeah listen get a prescription for Xanax get some therapy it's gonna be a rough rep.
I mean yeah this is you know it's like it doesn't change like you can't teach body impact. You can
set a good example. You can create a safe space where they don't have to worry about it. You can
pull him from school if it's horrible because it's just like just be intuitive to what your kid
needs and what helps me when I because I try to control and fix and I'm great at presenting you
know like I want them to like well you know don't wear oversized it makes you look boxy like I know
all the shit because I grew up with it right but I'm so over it and I'm so sick of trying to like
overcompensate for what I look like and trying to read the room and see who's safe and who's
likes people that are not have good bodies or you know what I mean but at eight man that's way too
early to even deal with it. So I would just say try to remember who you were when you were eight
not what your body looked like or not how people treated you but who you were inside and then
talk to your daughter like you would wish somebody to talk to you when you were eight you know.
Well she actually she's nine right? Well almost nine. Oh okay yeah. Almost nine.
Okay so well Heather thank you for listening then. I would also add in I think the most
powerful thing you can do with a little girl is let her do whatever the fuck she wants clothing
wise whatever she wants obviously she can't dress in a neglage when she's six but I think
however kids feel the most comfortable that they're gonna feel is the most important because comfort
is paramount to everything and if she wants to wear a big baggy clothes for the next two years
letter that's better than the alternative you know what I mean or the opposite end of the spectrum
because kids have to be confident in who they are that is the number one thing that amounts to a
decent sense of self-esteem and a sense of self like you have to know your personality and be able
to move in the direction that you feel and your parents are there to guide you not to stop you
you know you have to guide children in the right direction obviously if they're endangering themselves
that is a separate issue but as far as expressing themselves through clothing or feeling comfortable
in their clothing I think that anything goes and just be there to be a guide and a support system
for this incremental period of time that will be over when all the other girls at school get boobs
yeah in two years yeah notes I was thinking what you said earlier like it gets better it'll change
it's just it's just one year of school and like if we look back on our lives I remember maybe one
thing from second grade or one thing from third grade you know what I mean like just focus on
the good and the fun and just kind of barrel through the bad as the parent just know that it'll be one
year because kids don't understand one year when you're nine you've only had nine year eight years
so you're like a year sounds like an eternity also another quick story is I used to when I got my boobs
I got them really young when I was 12 at the time now it's getting even younger but I taped them
down because I was so embarrassed because they were big right away they came in overnight and I
remember my mom I taped a lot of things down at certain different times in my life and my mom
saw me do it I did it with my thighs once to make my thighs smaller and she kind of said you can't
do that again but when she saw it do it with my boobs she just went oh honey and she didn't say
another word about it I was embarrassed that she caught me because we didn't have an open dialogue
about that stuff like I was kind of private about it but after she caught me I was like oh I started
doing it in front of her and she never said anything about it and I didn't do it for very long because
it wasn't long before everyone else had boobs too and then I was like oh okay all right we're all
together here that's smart one thing too that might be helpful is doing a little closet purge like
make it a fun thing take a Saturday and go through me like you know what we're gonna go on a shopping
trip find some stuff that you like better than what you have now so let's go through the closet
and just do a little closet purge in anticipation of buying her a few things that you know but I
think it's gonna love she's good but I think it's you know wearing an oversized t-shirt is a very
significant part of yes you know what I mean oh my nieces that's all there it's like that's what you
do at a certain age and it's usually when you're developing now I see girls that are really young
and that want to show off their bodies I'm like oh wow look at you they seem too young to be doing
that but I'm like what the fuck do I know like what I can't you know let them do whatever like makes
them happy and confident confident it's tricky with women because we want to say like you're not
your body you're your personality but that's a lie beauty is currency for women and we have to
fight it and like overcome it every single day and it sucks you know but it's it's hard to be honest
with your kids you know yeah waking up every morning having to overcome my own beauty is exhausting
and taxing I look at myself and I'm like oh my god girl this tricky you better stay in today if
you don't want to see any car accidents picture Miami picture it's beaches picture the palm trees
swaying in the wind picture three radio journalists assassinated in cold blood this is silenced the
radio murders they left the body there for reason it was the calling card that's like the mafia used
to do and yet the mastermind has never been called to find him we had to go deep into a world of drugs
and darkness and then there were these hints of a much bigger conspiracy this year I clearly
gave a green light I'm also lost in listen to silence the radio murders on the iHeartRadio app
Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts
our 20s are seen as this golden decade our time to be carefree fall in love make mistakes
and decide what we want from our life but what can psychology really teach us about this decade
I'm Gemma Spegg the host of the psychology of your 20s each week we take a deep dive into a unique
aspect of our 20s from career anxiety mental health heartbreak money friendships and much more
to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences incredible guests
fascinating topics important science and a bit of my own personal experience Audrey I honestly
have no idea what's going on with my life join me as we explore what our 20s are really all about
from the good the bad and the ugly and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology
including our 20s the psychology of your 20s hosted by me Gemma Spegg now streaming on the iHeartRadio
app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts you don't have to have a mental health
diagnosis to benefit from good supportive mental health practices I'm Eric Zimmer host of the One
You Feed podcast where I interview thought-provoking guests who offer practical wisdom you can use to
support your mental health 25 years ago I was homeless and addicted to heroin I made my way
through addiction recovery and learned to navigate my clinical depression and figured out how to
build a fulfilling life the One You Feed has over 30 million downloads and was named one of the best
podcasts by Apple podcasts and Oprah magazine named us as one of 22 podcasts to help you live your
best life may is mental health awareness month and one small action you can take to support your
mental health today is to listen to an episode of the One You Feed podcast I've had nearly 600
conversations with world renowned experts and my understanding of how to care for my mental health
just continues to deepen with each episode learn what good mental health can mean for you listen
to the One You Feed on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts
okay what do we have next okay well our next question this is a caller who's going to be joining us
and her name is Meg she says dear Chelsea thank you so much for being my inspiration for what a
socially conscious independent and hilarious woman can and should be I'm hoping to channel some of
your power as I overcome my life's biggest hurdle so far my husband and I married at 18 and 22
respectively we've been married almost 13 years and have a 14 month old son to care for
unfortunately I left the Mormon church at 25 and my husband followed me out three years later
it's now been three years of us being together as post Mormon people and three challenging years
of couples therapy after he had an affair in his initial panic over his departure from the church
now he's saying he feels claustrophobic and can't recover from the religious trauma he endured while
in our marriage he says he still loves me but that he needs us to separate to find himself I respect
that he's been through a lot he was raised in the church while I was a convert so it wasn't as
traumatic for me how do I learn to set boundaries with the only person I've lived with for 13 years
we're stuck living together for at least the next few months when our lease ends and then what
I backburned my career for 12 years while he became an MD I've never been a single adult and I'm 31
I'm excited for the possibilities that lie ahead after his pain subsides but feeling lost in the
soup of all this change please help me find my power I'm done feeling like a victim I just don't
know how to start belonging to myself after all this time with love and gratitude Meg
hi Meg hi look at how cute you are you guys ready for the time of your life girl
four phase begins now oh my god you have your whole world in front of you yes yeah you're gonna
be okay you're gonna be great you're gonna be better than great wow done give yourself the same
freedom he wants because you deserve it just as much and you will love it and just make sure he
takes the baby half the time so that you get the same break yeah I feel like there should be
commercials for divorce because absolutely there are so many upsides for to divorce a you get your
kids 50% of the time which sounds crazy sounds wonderful when you have babies because mothers can't
be apart from them but do you understand how much freedom that is going to bring to your life when
you have a responsible 50 50 50 divorce with your spouse you get to explore a whole other world and
that world is of someone without children obviously you're never without your children when you're
a parent but like you're gonna be able to operate go on trips with girls go you know do whatever you
want in your free time date and I also want to just say like I think you have a great opportunity
you have so many opportunities but you have a great opportunity during this transition out of
your marriage to really cement a great friendship with your ex-husband soon to be you have a chance
right now to show up in a way that you're gonna admire yourself if you do it the right way later
you're gonna you're gonna admire yourself for acting with grace and acting with dignity understanding
that this is okay that he's gonna go and you know he needs to be by himself that's great because you're
gonna be by yourself too and that's also great and use this time to separate with dignity and love
so that you can maintain this really healthy friendship with appropriate boundaries for you
for the rest of your lives that you guys have to deal with each other with your children you know
amen I agree and so when you're talking about boundaries right now this is a great time for
you to set up boundaries and boundaries don't have to be about what you need they have to be about
what both people want like he's allowed to say what he wants as well and you're allowed to say
what you want and then you compromise and meet somewhere in the middle and it's a great pathway
to divorce like which is where it sounds like you guys are headed so like all of this lead time
Heather didn't have any lead time when her husband left her he just sent her a letter and like sent
her divorce papers a lot of divorcees or divorced men don't get lead time so like that's a huge
gift right there you know what I mean to phase out of a marriage because once your head is there
like it's it's gonna follow its suit you know what I mean this like three months or six months or
however long you stay together until the marriage is over but what did you mean when you reference
boundaries in your letter I think it's hard we live in a very small house and we are taking care
of a very young child so there is a lot of being together overlap our social networks were pretty
codependent so we have a lot of like my best friend is the wife of his best friend so they're still
overlapping events but and I think honestly just hearing everything you just said is
amazing because it feels good now that we've sort of let each other go but it's also been my whole
adult life and all of these changes and it just I mean my mom overheard me talking to him on the
phone yesterday coordinating things for the baby and she was like you guys are so nice to each
other and I was like yeah I don't I don't think it's good for me to be mean or to make anyone wrong
or right so I but I want to have healthy boundaries but sometimes there are voices that are sometimes
like you deserve blah blah blah you should be telling him blah blah blah you should be you know
like put your foot down with blah blah blah and it's like not always helpful advice no you don't
want it you're not trying to like get anything out of him you have to treat him with the same grace
and respect that you want you guys have the perfect scenario like you were both like married so
young you're 18 you know you're a baby like I think that sometimes we think we're supposed to have heart
rake in order to justify the love or make the love this great love affair the heart bake has to be
equal to it and then this situation I feel like you can transition out with love and respect and
a plan and like not feel betrayal or heartbroken just be like I'm so glad I had you for this tumultuous
time and to create this baby and now I want to support you by you discover who you are and I'm
going to discover who I am and I'm going to become financially independent and then as soon as I
am financially independent and have my own identity and self-actualization maybe you'll fall back in
love with him when your child's 15 maybe when he's 10 you know it's but you need to be financially
independent and emotionally independent and you have the capabilities to do it just because
he defined you from 18 on doesn't mean he has any bearing on who you might be for the next 15 years
yeah and what your example with your friendship you know the two best friends you guys both have
that are married like that's a great place to start to be like okay hey listen I know I'm best
friend like I don't want that to change like I would love in an ideal world like paint the picture
of how you would like your relationship to proceed past this point I mean during the time that you're
living together of course you know whatever you need you don't want to be disrespected or
devalued in any way but other than that that's a great way to just set up some boundaries I mean
what boundaries do you want let's talk about a couple I'm mainly concerned like I feel like very
I've been reading my let it go thank you Telsi it's been super helpful and I have been finding my
spirituality again because for a long time Heather I'm sure you can relate to this it was just like
no religion no spirituality like get away from you with your dogma but I feel like this has broken
me open to a place where I can be open to other versions of spirituality that work for me and I
have essentially felt a lot of ownership over this man because of our relationship and I've invested
in his career and everything and so I'm afraid that those attachments are going to get really mad
when I see him dating other women and when I have to come face to face with him having a
relationship with somebody else having no control over who he dates and I mean what if now he's a
doctor he's an MD you support them through school now he's going to take his new girlfriend to Hawaii
he's beautiful he's tall he's rich he's and I'm just like my ego's mad like I put in all of the
work and it's to stay in a marriage that doesn't make me happy no no I'm going to use that excuse to
stay in a marriage that doesn't make me happy but it's going to be hard for me to watch somebody
else do all of that so I'm I want to be together as much as possible for the baby and we're considering
like staying in the same house for longer and I don't know if we should do that
financially we don't live in a city where it's cheap to have two places it's just really
not how long are you considering staying in the same house well we have to until June possibly
August and then well keep having sex with him that's my advice don't begin your
or phase until you have a separate place to live but yes oh no no I definitely won't and we've
already set boundaries I was like you can do whatever you're gonna do out there but don't
bring anything near our child and don't bring anything in the house anyone good that's
healthy that's nice because I would have even said you can say let's not let's both put that
on pause until we leave the house like I would have yeah so that's already good listen you're
more scared of what your reaction might be than what it's gonna happen once you see your ex soon
to be ex with another person you're gonna be over it it's the anticipation of that moment that is
bigger than that moment tell that to Betty Broderick Chelsea tell that to Betty Broderick
well for the for normal fucking people okay because I wanted to drive a car over Billy when I
got a girl on his phone so it triggers everyone differently but she happens to be more evolved than
the best of them but this I'm saying this with this head start that they have they've already
agreed to go their separate ways it's not like you're finding him with some woman in the middle of a
marriage this is a much different scenario right this is this is you coming into your own this is
like the age of your enlightenment you know keep reading books like letting go keep investing in
your spirituality and your steadiness because those are going to be the tools that you need when you
feel like you're going to fly off the handle or get jealous or react to something in a way that
you're going to regret all of that is in spirituality right they give you all this information about how
to control yourself not in a religious way not in a way that they're indoctrinating you in a way that
you're a more healthy human balance being right yeah where you you know your self-worth you have a
connection with yourself you have a relationship with yourself and I think that you're anticipating
all these things and the fact that you're talking about it and being proactive about it I think
you're going to be just fine this is going to be a huge growth opportunity for you and your world
is about to begin in a whole new way oh why did you leave the church what happened you didn't like
that religion it was incorrect it was not true I know I converted as a teenager and then I went
to BYU and right after marrying my husband I transferred to schools and at BYU they forced you to like
study you have to take religion classes every semester and it was two weeks into my first semester
that I was like I'm sorry what do I sleep because I don't think that's right and I've just always I
was raised by people who are like southern California spiritualists and I was not raised in this church
and then I had some really close friends at BYU who sort of came out and were saying like they were
just going to live celibate and they were going to stay in the church and they didn't want their
sexuality to come between them and God and I just saw I mean they have every right to do whatever
they want but like seeing somebody sacrifice their happiness I just oh I can't I can't just like be
a cafeteria Mormon I have to leave it's not gonna work I get it I get it totally so and that alone
takes so much strength and like you already know that you have like the hoodspots who like yeah that's
it through this you know and so it's in you I mean not to make it about me but I married a man with
money and I thought I got in the golden ticket I helped him support whatever and that you kind of
feel like you pay your dues and then you get to sit pretty for the rest of your life and
there's no such thing it feels different it spends different like earn it yourself find out what
you want to do and not live on a stipend or adult from anybody you know because it doesn't matter the
second I decided that it it was me I wasn't gonna find it some night to fix it I was so much happier
and I was like 40 and fat and like all the things you know like I just and it just you don't know
what you can do until you're forced to do it so let it motivate you you know instead of being
angry that he has it all and you gave it to him get it for yourself and there's a bigger purpose
that you can't see right there is a bigger purpose yes you helped him and you helped his career and
you helped him get settled great that's great that's good karma yeah you help somebody come into
their own and now he's gonna be he can help you with your kid for the rest of your life he's gonna
be responsible like that that isn't something to say oh I can't believe it or be angry about
that's good vibes yeah that's the father of your baby as long as you don't hold it over his head
it's good vibes and to get biblical about it like leave tomorrow's problems for tomorrow
we'll only worry about what we need today I'm bringing it 12 years of Christian school I mean
that brings that makes a rukatah donai elo hainu I feel like all religions should be represented we
need a she I I'm from shtit scene here is there a she in the house okay so mag I have a question for
you what do you do for a living um this is the only time in my career I've been completely unemployed
so it's kind of bad timing there but I have a teaching license I am a public school teacher oh
great so nice yes um what you always say about having kids is totally correct though now that I
have one of my own I don't have the bandwidth to go back into America's public school system
especially in the schools where where I was working I mean Chicago public schools and in Aurora
Colorado like I've been working in places that I haven't worked in easy schools and um and it was
really rewarding and I learned a lot and I failed a lot but I'm looking now to pivot to use what
I've learned in a way that's not classroom teaching just because when you have young kids of your own
absorbing 30 kids everything every day is just a lot right so are you thinking about tutoring or
something like that yeah so I am looking at a master's program where I can become a dyslexia
therapist or my real reach would be a clinical psychology master's an eventual PhD because I
would love to do counseling like that's the best part of teaching is doing the emotional work oh
when we get off google there was an article in the sunday new york times about psychoanalysis and
the ups uptick in the people who are training to be psycho analysts and it was about froyd but it
talks about like the offshoots and all these people now it's a real rising field all psychology so yeah
so that sounds good okay well you're all set listen you're fucking beautiful you're normal
I'm only fans but I suggested only fans for your feet and I suggested only fans to you Heather I
suggested it for you I'll do it sure let's see how many subscribers but thank for sure
this is going to be a great life for you I'm almost jealous same
same
thanks
perspective do you feel like you got any advice yes I do I do want to ask kelors something so he's
currently like he doesn't want to be a bad guy and he's very much like well you'll say legally
married to me as long as you want you can stay on my health insurance we can split the money and
that's I think very generous while I'm getting on my feet but I really don't want to do that
thing like that golden ticket thing that you're talking about so like just listen that was a lot
of bullshit what I was just saying if they're willing to pay take the money but take the money
but don't bank on the money take the money like it's a scholarship or it's in that's it's
seed money to become the person you want to be independent of transitional seed money it's a
great way to think about it because you're and after a while you're not going to want his money
anyway you're going to want your own independence and you're but you're going to want money if he's
taking his new girlfriend and living in a mansion on a doctor's thing and you're doing the school
thing it's going to it's going to great for the rest of your life so fight hard now with a good
attorney without being angry but just knowing that you can be nice to him the rest of your life when
he's got the MD salary and you're you know working with the kids reading program just try to balance
out and make sure you just preserve your peace at all costs don't battery broader it because that's
pretty much what I go to on everything and that didn't work out well for her no so don't drive
your suburban through his front door when he's with his girlfriend so how about just don't
drive a suburban because the world is melting yeah listen she has a background in Mormonism
a suburban is at the top of her list but now I only have to have one child so there you go
and there you go you're saving the planet congratulations thank you thank you for that
yes thank you mag it was nice to speak with you thanks for calling in thank you so much
you guys are amazing take care thank you bye she and I had just talked on the phone before not on a zoom
call and so that was a whole fun surprise to find out she's just fully gorgeous I know like
calling ready oh my god I was looking at her like oh oh you're beautiful I'd like to hire you
yes you guys this podcast is about feelings okay not looks so sorry take a town a notch
beauty is currency beauty is currency so we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back to close out
picture Miami picture its beaches picture the palm trees swaying in the wind picture three
radio journalists assassinated in cold blood this is silenced the radio murders they left the body
there for reason it was the calling card it's like the mafia used to do and yet the mastermind has
never been caught to find him we had to go deep into a world of drugs and darkness
and then there were these hints of a much bigger conspiracy this year clearly gave a green light
I'm also lost in listen to silence the radio murders on the iHeartRadio app apple podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts
our 20s are seen as this golden decade our time to be carefree fall in love make mistakes
and decide what we want from our life but what can psychology really teach us about this decade
I'm Gemma Spegg the host of the psychology of your 20s each week we take a deep dive into a unique
aspect of our 20s from career anxiety mental health heartbreak money friendships and much more
to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences incredible guests
fascinating topics important science and a bit of my own personal experience or to be I honestly
have no idea what's going on with my life join me as we explore what our 20s are really all about
from the good the bad and the ugly and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology
including our 20s the psychology of your 20s hosted by me Gemma Spegg now streaming on the iHeartRadio app
apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts you don't have to have a mental health diagnosis
to benefit from good supportive mental health practices I'm Eric Zimmer host of the One You
Feed podcast where I interview thought-provoking guests who offer practical wisdom you can use to
support your mental health 25 years ago I was homeless and addicted to heroin I made my way
through addiction recovery and learned to navigate my clinical depression and figured out how to
build a fulfilling life the One You Feed has over 30 million downloads and was named one of the best
podcasts by Apple podcasts and Oprah magazine named us as one of 22 podcasts to help you live your best
life may is mental health awareness month and one small action you can take to support your
mental health today is to listen to an episode of the One You Feed podcast I've had nearly 600
conversations with world renowned experts and my understanding of how to care for my mental health
just continues to deepen with each episode learn what good mental health can mean for you listen
to the One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts
and we're back well okay so we can quickly get Alisa laid her question is get her laid
she needs to get laid she's newly divorced so okay no experience in this but I'll try
she says dear Chelsea my sex drive is high my trust in people low wait one second Heather you've
had sex since your divorce right yes yes I'm gonna launch full and I was just saying like
it's not my forte getting laid okay but I'll work on it got it well I'll just kind of skim over
this and she's gonna join us here she's intimidated by online dating she doesn't really know the
etiquette she does want to go out there and start having like one eight stands or hooking up with
guys but she's not totally sure how to go about it so she says how do I have casual sex when I can't
make the first move Alisa hi Alisa hi Alisa I like your style first casual sex girl let's talk
about it Heather Gay is our special guest today so that's Heather this is Catherine I'm me hi how
are you good thank you so you're looking to get some action first of all you should use dating
sites because that's the quickest way to make that happen unless you're just gonna go
walk down the street to the bar and pick up a guy that's great but if you're embarrassed about
making a first move is that what it is are you scared I get a little shy around boys too sometimes
if I like them yeah I'm making the first move like I was I socialized a lot when I was younger and
but these days I'm kind of more of an introvert in a homebody so well you're not gonna get laid at
home you know I know I know so I'll actually you'll get laid at home eventually yeah so I joined
some hiking groups and oh good of things that I enjoy doing and I I'm new to this province in Canada
too so I've been like going to my favorite bar sitting at the bar reading a book getting a drink
yes this is all great that's hot reading a book at the bar this is sex in the city behavior I love
it yeah I just find with the social sites you know you have to sift through like so much and then I
don't know what words to use and how to communicate with people on these dating sites and then
I'm very much like I like to get a vibe so I don't know I just find them difficult well there are
certain apps that you can use if you are more interested in just hooking up field is one there's
a few other ones that are specifically for like they're more like hook-up-y but also I think people
are using bumble like I have a couple friends who are in an open marriage and they're like we use
bumble so you know I think you should I think you should get on sites get on a couple you know
like bumble hinge is like reputable right yeah that's the other there's another new one not
tinder is like a little bit old that's too much yeah but not plenty of fish is plenty of fish
still popping or is that that's from that's from the 70s also Heather I don't yeah I don't I definitely
don't want to discount that idea I also live in a small town so I just the the pool is pretty small
yeah you need to be online it's the best way to get the most options as quickly as possible right
it's the most efficient way to start dating or start fooling around with somebody like whatever
it is you're after that's the way to do it okay I love that you're going to a bar reading a book
by yourself at the bar fucking awesome keep doing that join your groups join another group like
instead of a hiking group you know Canadians love to do what else do they like they like to fish
stay away from that and drink beer see I'm imagining her like going down to the docks and
having like a hot fisherman with like big muslim muscles there are no hot fishermen you guys
we're sick for this show me a hot fish out but go ahead Alisa yeah they're great guys for sure
the oil rigors I don't know what you think you're saying when you say you don't know what words to
use like you mean like the trendy language that's going around or abbreviations and stuff like that
like what do you mean by that well I was chatting with this guy online on bumble years ago and he
messaged me and then I wasn't the next person to message him like the etiquette you know it's like
I didn't message him back so then he just never messaged me again oh well don't worry that's gonna
happen all the time online that there is no etiquette you know it's your etiquette is whatever you
decide it's gonna be but you should practice just being forward with people like you know do you
want to have a drink do you want to meet for a drink you should definitely meet them for a drink
before you invite anyone to your house please don't do that yes or meet for you know whatever
you're into I mean I'm into drinks so that's what I'm gonna meet for but you know listen you're online
who gives a shit you don't care if you ever see these fucking people again it's the perfect way to
be a little bit more daring and then with that we'll come you being more daring in real life you
know okay yeah you hide behind the screen a little bit and also might I suggest they've made a song
into Adam Levine's sexting and he's really good at it like little things to say like you're so hot
amazing like he knows how to sex amazing yeah just say that to anything amazing it just whatever
Adam Levine said when he was sexting people on the side I think that's a great playbook to pull from
honestly okay thank you I also was like cut I've been tuning in and bought a really good vibrator
so great that's also good what do you need a date form I know you well no that's good to get
everything ready for your date that's good keep it moving it helps to have that practice I do think
you know you get out of practice with that stuff even for yourself yeah maybe I'm real too much I
don't I don't know what you're talking about because a vibrator I mean how do you have to practice
with a vibrator it's just like small talk with your vibrator put it where it's supposed to go and
then it's just it's just a new tool are you writing your vibrator are you reverse calcare like are
you like I mean just like the frequency when you get out of practice it's like you don't care
about it anymore but I'm like prime the pump a little bit oh right okay in that sense okay yeah
yes I feel like if I have a vibe like I don't you know I'm not like super attached or craving
having this like strong craving and yeah that's smart I like that angle that's true that way you're
not like yeah super you just have masturbate before every date also so you don't have to be super super
duper horny unless you need to be and then you can whip that up again anyway the sometimes you need
the horn needs to motivate you to be a little bit more forward you know so you got to balance it
yes you need you want it's a razor's edge really see how I know you'd have a good advice for this
Katoris's edge really is what it is it's a Taurus edge yeah give her just a little but not too much
you know anymore all right Alisa all right Alisa thank you again thank you tell us when you get laid
okay yes yeah I'll tell you how it goes okay thanks bye bye
well you guys have all of her problems so fast that was great
I just want to have like an advice show this is like uh motivating me all the tips and tricks
yeah I know that we're just pulling out of our asses people are very trustworthy all right well
we are wrapping things up yeah I mean that was an hour what a fun hour Heather that was a fun hour
you guys I had the best time awesome well thank you so much and thanks guys yeah we'll talk soon okay
take care of that I loved it thanks guys appreciate it bye bye bye bye and her book is called Bad Mormon
which you guys can pick up wherever you like to buy your books hopefully at a local bookstore
yes and I will have a link in the show notes as well I actually all of our links to our books that
I put in the show notes go to bookshop.org which also donates it's like an alternative to Amazon
but they donate to local bookshops oh yes we can still like order online okay love that yeah that's
fabulous support books everybody okay we love books and I have just announced new stand updates
for my little big bitch tour guys I announced 25 new cities these are probably a lot of the
cities people have been mentioning in the comments I start out in east hampton I go to New York DC
Durham North Carolina LA Phoenix Cleveland Columbus Pittsburgh Milwaukee Chicago Madison
Portland to name just some I will be performing at the Kennedy Center everybody that's in DC
October 6 I'm super psyched to be performing there also exciting announcement for this week I just
out at second shows in New York DC Seattle and San Francisco so today's pre-sale still so that code
is little and then general on sale starts tomorrow okay yes and I'll see everybody this weekend I'll
be in Bangor, Maine Wallingford, Connecticut and Mona Chalo New York there are more I have
tour dates coming up for the next three months and then more dates coming up in the fall so those
have all been announced they're on my Instagram page or you can go to ChelseaHama.com thank you
if you'd like advice from Chelsea shoot us an email at deerchelseypodcast at gmail.com and be
sure to include your phone number deer Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive
producer Catherine Law and be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHama.com picture Miami picture
its beaches picture three radio journalists assassinated in cold blood this is silenced the
radio murders you left the body there for a reason it was the calling card it's like the mafia used to
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darkness and there were these hints of a much bigger conspiracy this year they clearly gave
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our 20s often seen as this golden decade our time to be carefree make mistakes and figure out our lives
but what can psychology teach us about this time I'm jama spegg the host of the psychology of your
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