Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception.
I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all-new story of Betrayal.
Ashley Litten was helping her husband set up a business fan mail account when she discovered
a terrible secret.
I saw a hidden folder, and I opened it. What the hell did I just see?
Listen to season two of Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
podcasts. Between April 1971 and September 1972, six young black girls were snatched off the
streets in Washington, D.C. This child was laying on the side of the road. The person said,
I murdered your daughter. The killer believed that he may have been seen.
I will admit the others when you catch me if you can. Side freeway phantom.
Listen to freeway phantom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
podcasts. On Queen Charlotte, the official podcast, we're stepping behind the scenes and the drawing
boards of this team to experience the life breathed into the Bridgerton Creek Wall. Listen to the
leaps executive producer and series director Tom Baraka took to capture the feeling that puts
that lump in your throat, and you've got to catch creator Shonda Rhimes. She's dropping gems, diamonds,
and mics. You can listen to Queen Charlotte, the official podcast, every Thursday on the iHeartRadio
app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, Catherine. Oh, hi, Chelsea. Hi, what's going on? I just got back from Mexico.
It's still lovely. It's still wonderful. I go every year for this girls trip with two of my best
girlfriends. I leave my husband at home. This time there were three dogs to take care of, so he's
slightly resentful, but has forgiven me for me. I'm just telling him to shut the fuck up.
Honestly, slightly resentful. Whose sperm made those dogs? His.
Absolutely. Exactly. No, but he did great with the pups I was gone, and I just hung out and
play in with my girlfriends and a lot of tacos, and it was great. I like Cabo. Yeah, yes. Actually,
I'm going to Cabo a little later this year. Oh my God, look at you. You're just a regular
globetrotter. Where are you going next? I have a lot of vacations lined up this summer. I'm going
to be all over. I'm going to be globetrotting. I'm going to London. I'm going to Spain. I'm going
to Africa. My sister and I are going to become lesbians. My dream for us to become a unit is
finally happening. She can't resist my advances anymore. The other day, she sent me a property and
said, what do you think about buying this together? I was like, Oh, here we go. I was like, it's starting.
She's starting to capitulate to the fact that we are going to be long, lost lovers. Oh, fantastic.
Which one is it that you're taking as your lover? Simone is I am taking her as lover. Shoshana's
married. Simone. Okay, of course. But yeah, she, it was funny because when we were in Maine a few
years ago, my brother Roy, I think I mentioned this before, wanted to, I was like, Oh, look,
we could all get a compound because like eventually I just, not eventually for climate change, I want
to buy like 100 acres either in Maine or Northern Canada somewhere along those lines. And I was like,
we can all have our different houses and, you know, on the property and then have a main house.
Like this is exactly what I'm wanted to lead up to. Just live with it in a commune. Yes, exactly.
That you built yourself and it's beautiful and and it stays above water. Yes, you know,
I'm climate paranoid now after reading all the things that I've read. So I have had to pivot
my reading material. You guys, I performed at Red Rocks last Wednesday. Oh my gosh.
And it was the most epic night, one of the most epic nights of my life.
Well, you posted that you were the first woman to ever headline their female comedian,
first female comedian to ever headline there. Yeah, I know. That's crazy. Well,
hello. Welcome to the future. Anyway, that was so fun because I woke up Wednesday and Red Rocks is
a huge show. There's like 8,000 people there. So I get a text from my manager or agent and they're
like, okay, it's pouring in Colorado, bringing more clothes. And I'm like, well, what do you mean,
it's pouring? This is an amphitheater. Like, how do I perform in the rain? And they're like,
Oh, rain or shine, it goes on. I'm like, but it's calling for Lunder. I mean, Lunder. You guys,
it was calling for Lunder, not Lunder. And I was like, people could get electrocuted with Lunder.
And they were like, no, no, they have a whole system in place. They have a meteorologist that
works at Red Rocks that tracks the storm. So if it's actually too unsafe, if it's like three miles
within three miles of the venue, I learned that they will call off the show. Anyway,
I went, my sister Simone came, my Vesty Sophie came, a bunch of people were there.
And my agents and managers all came out because it was just going to be one of those nights.
And I never look at the stage before I go on stage. I just don't. But this is something else.
That's not my thing. But because it was raining, I went out and I was like, I just want to see
where the roof stops over the performer. Are you getting right now? What do I need to be wearing
out here? Because I had my hair done. I had like the extension pieces in like, you know,
and then I saw the stage and the person who was performing was just getting so
Oh, no. I was like, wait, what? So then I went in the bathroom, ripped out all my hair pieces,
put my hair on a ponytail, rolled up my sleeves. And I was like, bitch, you need to get your head
on straight. Oh my gosh. You are basically going to be walking around in the rain.
And so you also got rained on? Well, yeah, but it wasn't as dramatic. I mean,
it was dramatic for the audience members because they're the ones that sat there and they said,
you don't understand Coloradans. Because I said, I'm not performing to a half empty. You know,
we sold tons of tickets for that. I don't want to perform to a half empty house. And they were
like, no, Coloradans are used to it. They just thought of color. And I can't tell you how
electrifying the whole night was. And almost getting, I mean, it was electrifying with no
one getting electrocuted. So that was life. But I was on such a high and it was so funny. I got home,
you know, we were all drinking, having a little after party, had friends that came
from that live in Colorado. We're all out backstage after we go, we go to the hotel,
you know, it's so much fun. And we're just such a celebratory mood. And I'm lying in bed,
going to sleep, going, I'm so happy no one's in my bed, right? That was the last thing I said,
as I was falling asleep. I was like, so happy. And then I was just thinking, I'm so happy. I get
to celebrate this law. You can alter yourself. But then it was a real pivot because we flew
from Denver to the next night, I was in New York City. The next night I played the Catskills.
So that was quite a transition. Yeah. Catskills was awesome. Then I went to
Banger main and then I went to Wallingford, Connecticut. So they were all very great shows.
So I just had a great week. And then this weekend, I'm performing in Graceland. Oh, my God. Yeah.
I'm doing three dates in Tennessee, like Chattanooga, Memphis, and some other Knoxville.
Yeah. I heard Chattanooga is beautiful. I've never been, but I've heard it's wonderful,
and like, Mountaine and all that stuff. Well, good. I hope I see that because, you know,
Tennessee is not my hit list right now. I'm not happy with their politics. So it's very hard
for me to go to these places, even though I know my presence is necessary. Right. It's needed.
It's needed. And we get emails all the time too about like, wait, no, but please come to these
places that are trying to keep you out or like trying to change the laws and all this stuff.
Yeah. I've been getting a lot of DMs on Instagram and a lot of comments about my Florida comments
about not visiting Florida, but I have to say, guys, the only way to make a point in any place
in this country is economically. And even though I'm only one person, I hope other
artists will follow because it's just unacceptable what he's doing down there. He's disgusting.
Absolutely disgusting politics. Now he's trying to ban books from the Holocaust.
He took away any sort of affirmative action program they have for universities. I'm not sure
what the wording is for Florida because it's not called affirmative action down there. I'm sure they
got rid of that language a while ago. So it's just, it makes me so sick to my stomach as it should
to every American. The Daily did a really interesting episode about how Tucker Carlson is like,
literally in Florida, they're taking keys from his playbook. And there, when he flew all those
migrants to Martha's face, that was something that Tucker Carlson have set on the air. And then
he went ahead and did it. Yeah. Well, I read an interesting article also about Rupert Murdoch,
Vanity Fair. I guess it was last month, I don't know, it was in my hotel room, but it was amazing
about the dynamic with his family and basically how succession is mimicking the whole, he plays
the kids all against each other. And he had lunch with Rhonda Santis and his wife about a year ago
and said, if you are the Republican nominee, or if you want to run for president, like you have
our backing, because now Trump and Fox are at our crossroads. They're not really, but I don't believe
any of these people because of what happened last time, the minute he gets the nomination,
they're all going to turn around and be like, okay, because they'd be willing to take that over,
you know, another Biden administration, of course, and Biden administration. I don't have a lot to
say about that either. Like, I'm for a lot of the things that he's done, but I understand that he's
also 117 years old. And that's not going to get any young people excited. Right. I will say,
it has been very nice to just not have to think about the president for a couple of years. I know,
it's so nice to not have to think about that stuff. Yeah, Brad has been rewatching Parks and Wreck,
and is this very hopeful time before 2016. And man, it was a real, it was a much simpler time.
We were reminded of like how, how maybe foolish we were and hopeful we were that like, things
were just going to keep getting better for everybody. But yeah, I'm not, I'm not going to
participate in the way that I did last time by watching the news on ad nauseam. I'm not going
to let, I'm not going to listen to Donald Trump speak. I can't take it. It is too upsetting. And
I'm smarter and wiser now. And I, we have to focus on, I don't know what we have to focus on quite
frankly. I mean, it feels slightly, you know, hopeless. And I don't ever want to, I don't ever
want people to listen to me and feel hopeless after. So we're just going to remain positive and know that
the world is a cyclical place. Yep. There are good times and bad times. And let's just enjoy the
time that we're in now. Yeah. And voting still matters, you know, and we do what we can. So move
toward a better tomorrow, as they say. And on that very special note, we have a very special guest.
We do. You know him. He's in everything. I first saw him in the Book of Mormon on Broadway.
He's had a book called Too Much Is Not Enough. And now he has a new book out called
Uncle of the Year. Please welcome Andrew Raddles. Andrew, did we fucking wake you up?
No, I was just late. It's almost 2.30 here in New York. So you were sleeping from last night still?
No, I'm so sorry. Chelsea Handler. That's me. Hi. I'm so excited to meet you.
Hi, and I'm Catherine Law. This is Catherine, my co-host. Hi. Hello, how are you? I'm just great.
Well, congratulations, Andrew, on your book. Well, thank you. You know how hard it is to
write a book and then distribute a book. It's a tricky situation. It's a lot of work to put out a
book. Yeah. And I'm very proud of this book. I wrote one a couple of years ago, and that one
seemed to sort of come out a little bit easier in some ways. This one was a little harder to
talk about and a little harder to share, but I'm very excited to get to share it.
You know, the weirdest part of it was doing the audiobook. Yeah. I don't know if you had this.
I find that to be incredibly annoying. Well, I wrote it and I did all of the
stuff and I feel like I really processed all of my thoughts. And then I had to read it out loud
in front of a weird stranger, an engineer who had not read it, by the way. But gives you notes on
your performance and hasn't read the book and doesn't, has never met you. Yep. And he was like,
it doesn't sound like you. And I was like, I'm sorry, what now? It doesn't sound like me.
Okay. I had a guy go talk more slowly. I go, no, that's not how I talk. Yeah. It was very strange,
but I'm happy with the way it all came out, but man a man. So why do you think that this experience
or the second book for you was more difficult than the first? I feel like the first book was a
little more linear. It was a little more about how I started into showbiz and it felt like a
little more natural progression. This one is more about more adult stuff, I guess. It all kind of
started because I wrote this essay for the New York Times about my anxiety. And it's much more
personal. Can you talk a little bit about your anxiety experience? Because I know you started
therapy because of that. And then, you know, it wound up being a very good thing for you because
of other things that happen in your life. I've had many therapists over the years. Some of them are
great. You know, therapists are, it's hard to find a good one sometimes. I really struggled
during the pandemic. I've been very lucky as an actor. I go from job to job to job. And then I had
a really hard time not working. And it was really hard to like stop and slow down and figure out,
well, who are you if you don't have a job? And that was a really tough thing to figure out.
And very relatable, since everyone was pretty much out of a job at the same time.
Yeah. Even though it feels isolated, like it's happening to you. I mean, in reality, it is
happening to the whole world. Everyone sort of had that feeling where like the bottom just sort of
dropped out. You had nothing to do. And I thought maybe I could relax into it, but I couldn't relax
into it. I see. Yeah. And that was, I thought maybe like, well, nothing's happening and everyone's
on the same page. And it's totally fine. I couldn't get on board. Well, and there is a sort of thing
where, you know, our identities get wrapped up in what we do. It's the thing we spend 10, 10,
12 hours a day doing, we say I am a actor, podcast producer, whatever. Sure. That's what I do.
So it's difficult when you have to separate those two things. Yeah. It's hard to balance the act of
your consciousness, like spirituality with your reality sometimes. It's really hard to be the
person you want to be in a stressful situation sometimes. And then you're like, fuck, wait,
I thought I would be able to handle something like this better. Not that anyone had, you know,
any idea the pandemic was coming, but no, but it is that's a very good way to say it. It's like,
I thought maybe I could handle myself better. Yeah. And I think with therapy a lot, you,
did you go to therapy before the pandemic as well? Yes. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've had, I mean,
like off and on for, you know, 25 years, I've had a different. Yeah. Yeah. I know from my own
experience that you have this idea sometimes when you go for a long enough period of time that you're
fixed and there shouldn't be another issue. Like for me, I'm always like, okay, I sorted all of
that out. I shouldn't have to face anything like that again. And so then when you're faced with it
again and you may act in a seemingly similar way, you're definitely like there's slow self
flagellation involved because you're like, fuck, I already learned that lesson. What am I doing
this again for? Why did I do it differently? Yeah. I've had many different therapists. I had a
therapist that I went to for many, many years. And I realized I sort of hit a wall with this
therapist. And I realized when I hit the wall, he sort of like, I was telling him a story and he
sort of like, glassed over it a little bit. Like I could, I could tell he wasn't listening.
And then he said to me, Andrew, what's too painful to remember? It's simply hard to forget. So what's
the laughter we remember? And I said, did you just quote the fucking way we were to me?
And he said, Oh God. I'm so sorry. I guess I did. I said, you quoted the way we were to a gay man.
And then he wouldn't catch it. Was he gay? Because he is now he's now gay. He was not gay. But I was
like, how could that happen? That's so funny and so annoying. I would do possibly say that.
Right. I've had moments like that with people when they've said something, I'm like, that's the end.
That's the end of our friendship. You just crossed the Rubicon. Yeah. Can I tell you one more therapist
please that I wrote in my book? And I'm sure my ex-boyfriend would like my ex-boyfriend and I,
his name was Michael. We really tried. We went to a lot of couples therapy. We really, really tried.
And we went to the couples therapist. He was, you know, talking to the therapist. And he said,
Andrew sucks the air out of every room we go into. It's like I'm not even there. Every time we walk
into a room, it's like no one even sees me. He went on and on and on. And then the therapist said,
Andrew, did you hear it Brian just said? And I said, his name is Michael. He went what? And I said,
his name is Michael. The same thing happened to me. I talked about this on an earlier episode.
My therapist was like, oh, your boyfriend, Greg. I'm like, you mean my husband Brad?
I love it. I love it. Not great. It's not great Chelsea. Not great. I'm going to bring up my
favorite story in the book, which of course is you having sex with a married man and then having
his wife return your panties to you. Oh, no. Yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yeah. We read it together.
I read the book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a reader and Katherine is a podcast producer, like I said
earlier. So that's our job to read your book. Exactly. I know, but I didn't think most people
actually read it. Oh, I forced your team to send it to us. Oh, God. Okay. I did have sex with a
very ultra conservative married man, just like a one night stand and it was a strange situation.
And I regret doing it. I wonder how he's doing now is sort of my, because I've not kept in touch.
Well, and then the part about his wife returning your underwear to you. Yeah. What was the hell
like when she started getting texts from her being like, I want to talk to you? Oh, that was a little
tricky. So I left he, he sort of took all of my clothing with him. And we were doing a musical
together. And a couple days later, she showed up in town and she did arrive with my washed and
cleaned underwear in like a little baggy, like a sache. Well, it was like a little FedEx bag.
And was totally fine with the fact that he was gallivanting around with men, correct?
I mean, I don't know if she was fine with it, but I think that she had come to terms with it.
I think she had made up her mind that like, we're going to get through this.
Well, if you think about the dynamic between a gay man and a woman, right? Like your bestie,
whoever your best friend is, that's a gay man. Ideally, the best chemistry would be for the two
of you to be married. And just like her short man on the side, you're in a long term relationship.
I know you too are a very hot couple of you and your boyfriend talks, your partner, I should say.
Well, thank you. Because you're more than boyfriend and boyfriend, right?
Well, yeah, boyfriends, partners. Yeah, we're not married. We met doing boys in the band together
2018. And we've like, you know, it was like the laziest story ever that like two actors met doing
like a show together. Couldn't have been lazier.
I have to say, I told Chelsea this morning, I was like, when I realized that's who Andrew
Reynolds was dating, I was like, the two of you together are so incredibly hot as a couple.
I was taking a back. You also sort of kind of look alike similar. So I'm sure you've heard that
before. You do have a similar vibe. Yeah, you look like you're both from a different decade,
but a very similar. Is that narcissistic that I'm sort of dating myself?
Probably. I mean, what else could it be? I know.
Dumb actor, dumb actor. Yeah. No, and people have asked me like, well, how did you guys meet?
I was like, well, we were playing boyfriends in a movie. And that's as simple as it is.
But aren't you like a stepfather now? Doesn't he have two children?
He does have two children. Yes. You know, am I a stepfather? You know, I try my best to sort of be
as present as possible. I'm not there a lot, unfortunately. I work a lot in New York.
And he's in LA? And he's in Los Angeles. Yeah. And I can just pop over there and look after
the kids. I love children. So you just tell me when and I can take some of the load off.
I know you dig a kid. I know that from just being a fan. But you know, it's like, it's tough
because I'm gone a lot. I try to be as present as possible. I really do.
I really liked in the book, are you talked about sometimes having a difficult time connecting with
them? Chelsea and I have talked about this too. It's like, because they're like pre-teenish,
right? They're like 11-ish. They're 10. Okay. But it's like, sometimes you're like,
what do I talk about with a 10-year-old? It can be difficult. But you know, I hate fucking having
to make conversation. I fucking hate that. So with your talking to a 10-year-old, like that
isn't related to you, even when they are related to you sometimes, it's like, it's can be a chore.
Like, that's why people become parents, because they're ready to take that responsibility on.
And I think what I find so annoying is that I'm not supposed to take that on. I chose not to do
that. So don't expect me to mingle, like with your kids, unless they're fucking cool. And then
I'm into your kids. Like, I'm into really cool kids. My friend, Jamie Greenberg, has a really cool
kid. Yeah. Money. And I like her. Yeah, but kids are mostly not cool. Yeah. They're idiots,
because they haven't grown up yet. And I think being a parent, and I really appreciate my
sibling skill at this, that they really do engage with their kids in a great way. And I found that I
maybe don't have that skill. Like, I don't have that natural thing where I'm like, oh, I know how
to talk to a kid. I don't always know how to. Sometimes I can sort of drop in and be, and there
are moments with Tux kids where like, I do it well. But like, sometimes I don't do it well.
And it's really hard to, it was a really hard lesson to learn that, oh, you're not naturally good
at this. And some people aren't naturally good at it. Some people just like, know how to do it,
and know how to talk and like, fuck around with kids. But like, I don't have that chain. And it was
a really hard lesson to figure out, oh, you don't know how to do it. That was tricky. I'm good with
like the fun stuff. I'm good at like messing around in a target. Right. Doing some voices.
Right. And having some fun. I'm good at that. Taking them to school, not so good at, not so good at
making breakfast, not so good at.
What do you think that you're really good at? Not with regard to parenting, but in life in
general. Like, what do you think one of your greatest gifts is? I feel like I'm a pretty good
friend. Like, I keep in touch well. Okay. I think now you're going to get some responses from my
friends. They're going to be like, Oh, he doesn't know he doesn't. I don't need a lot of things or
people to be on top of me. Well, I don't feel like I do either. And I feel like sometimes that
fights me in the ass a little bit that like because I don't need a lot, then sometimes
I don't maybe necessarily give. Yes, sir. I think those two things are. Yes. Do you know what I mean?
Yes. I think if you do one, you do the other. Exactly. Yeah. I'm guilty of the same thing.
Yeah. I don't need a ton from you. So then maybe if I don't always give it back,
then I'm looked at as sort of being selfish or being, I don't know. That's a thing that I just
sort of realized about myself. Yeah. But selfish is a judgment. So like, you shouldn't think about
it that way. You should think about like, are you taking good care of yourself or are you actually
like ignoring the needs of other people that are important to you? That kind of thing.
Well, that's a nice way to say it. Well, that's, I learned that in therapy.
I'm going to give you, I'm going to just send you like a Venmo because I feel like this has been
like a real therapy session. Well, that's great because you're about to give therapy to our
callers that we have people live. I know. I'm very excited about that. So get ready.
Catherine is going to give us up to get a speed. Hold on. No, you don't get any
rough time. You don't get any rough time now. Please. Is there anything that I should know?
Like, oh, anything I should be prepared for you? Well, there's a couple of sex questions, but
we're going to take a quick break and we will be back with the callers and questions.
Last season, millions tuned into the betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception.
I'm Andrea Gunning and now we're sharing an all new story of betrayal.
Ashley Linton was helping her husband set up a business Venmo account when she discovered a
terrible secret. I scrolled down and that's when I saw a hidden folder and I opened it.
What the hell did I just see?
I was scared that he was coming home. What Ashley discovered that day was a secret so
dark she feared for her life. She was like, oh my god, I got to get out of the house.
He's going to find out that I've seen this. He's going to come kill me.
Listen to season two of betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Between April 1971 and September 1972, six young black girls were snatched off the streets in
Washington, D.C. It took four murders before the police finally realized that one person was
responsible. I will admit the others when you catch me if you can,
sign freeway family. This child was laying on the side of the road. It appeared that she was
probably either dragged out of the car or thrown out of the car. The person said I murdered your
daughter. The killer believed that he may have been seen by the mother. That guy is, he's at a
sync with even the worst people. I thought that they would catch him. I thought it was just a matter
of time. Is it possible that the killer is still alive? Listen to freeway phantom on the iHeartRadio
app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're looking for someone to help you
unpack Queen Charlotte, a Bridgerton story, you're in the right place. It's me, Gabby Collins. Come
with me because I'm Queen Charlotte, the official podcast. We're stepping behind the scenes and the
drawing boards of this team to experience the life breathed into the Bridgerton prequel. Listen
to the leaps executive producer and series director Tom Barrica took to capture the feeling that's put
that lump in your throat. And you've got to catch creator Shonda Rhimes. She's dropping gems, diamonds,
and mics. On this podcast, we're going beyond the basic line of questioning and getting to the heart
of the show, all while appreciating the contributions of the show's creative teams and remarkable cast.
Go inside each episode of Queen Charlotte, a Bridgerton story with the creatives, the cast,
and creator Shonda Rhimes leading the way. Listen to Queen Charlotte, the official podcast,
Thursdays on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts.
And we're back. We are back. Let's start with a breakup question. Oh boy. Are you ready,
Andrew? Are you ready? My guess. Yes. This might be this might be a quickie, but we'll see what
comes out of it. This comes from T in New Zealand. Dear Chelsea, I need to break up with my boyfriend.
We met last summer when we started a new job together. Things moved super quickly. We've been
dating for about seven months now, but it's just not working out. He's still a great person, and I
care about him. I'm a 28 year old male, and he is 24. Now my dilemma is this. Our work schedules
are totally opposite. The days I'm not working are the days he is working, and it's just how
our fixed schedules happen to work out. Not only that, but we live 85 kilometers, which is about 50
miles apart from each other. Thank you for that conversion. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you
for doing that. I was trying to do the math in my head. I'm like, I can't do it.
That's impossible. Even Siri couldn't do it. I had to find a calculator. We live 50 miles apart
from each other and work somewhere in the middle. We don't see each other often, and I've been trying
to schedule a time to hang out, but it's proven unsuccessful. He wants to hang out on Wednesday
when I'm finished with work, but I feel bad he'd drive all that way just for me to end things,
and then he'd have to drive back. However, I know ending things over the phone is like the
cliche, movie scumbag move. Do you think it's acceptable in this situation? If you were in
his shoes, would you hate the person who broke up with you over the phone more than the person
who made you drive 170 kilometers? Thank you, T. I think that's a phone call then. If he's going
to be dry, yeah, that's just the right thing to do. Like, I can't, you can't make somebody drive to
you to get broken up with. Right. That's so fucking stupid. First of all, that entire conversation is
stupid. They're in their 20s. They're not really dating. They don't live in the same city.
Fuck off. You're not in a relationship. You don't live in the same city. You're in your early 20s.
You're not. Yeah, it's not a big deal. Beating each other. It's not a big deal. Just
check out. Take it over the phone. Do not drag that up. That is so obnoxious. Agreed. No text,
but phone call. Yes. I know. I'm sure they have really cute accents, but like done. I'm
done. Yeah. I'm done with that one. Got a nip it in the bud. Next color.
Well, our next color is Devin. Devin says, dear Chelsea, I'm a 29 year old gay man living in
Portland, Oregon. And on Halloween of 2021, my ex boyfriend of two and a half years broke up with
me. We had a good relationship, but he often felt bound by the constraints of our relationship.
When we broke up, I was utterly devastated. I've come a long way since our breakup and
have embraced my slutty phase by sleeping with dozens and dozens of men and exploring other
kinks that I didn't have a chance to explore before. My problem is this. Even after a year and a half
of being separated, I still feel insecure about seeing my ex in public or running into him at a
party. Portland is a small gay community, and I often see him at our local gym. I can't help myself
but think about the guys he's sleeping with or the men he might casually be dating. To add
insult to injury, I was primarily the bottom in our relationship and he rarely let me top.
I told him time and time again that I wanted to top, but somehow we always found ourselves in the
same positions. After our breakup, I was still logged into his Amazon account when I found a douche
used to clean your butthole before sex. And I really got in my head about him bottoming for
other guys when he wouldn't do that in our relationship. We struggled a lot with insecurities
on both sides and both suspected the other wanted to sleep with guys with bigger dicks.
Do these feelings come up in heterosexual relationships as well? I've tried to refocus and
channel my thoughts other places when these things come up. But sometimes I can't help but fixate on
them. Any advice you have is much appreciated, much love, Devin. And Devin is here with us on the phone.
Oh Devin's here. You can counsel him directly Andrew. I can't wait for this.
Devin, the bottom eight conversation really took a turn. Devin, I was not following. Hold on,
Devin's muted first. I just told you. Andrew, slow your roll. Okay, Devin, do you see Andrew?
Here's our special guest. How lucky are you? Hi, hello. Devin, have you since found a
top that satisfies your needs? I'm still dating. I actually had a date last night.
Just sort of like casually dating and kind of checking things out. So the short answers, no.
I'm just kind of like still doing my thing, sleeping around, doing what I can. And what's the
Portland scene like? Is it a big gay scene? It's relatively big I would say but it's a lot of the
same people. The pool is still kind of limited it seems like and a lot of what I've encountered
is a lot of people are in open relationships also. And now that's such a weird headache,
right? People who have like an open relationship and you're like, yeah, do it or don't. Come on now.
How long have you guys been broken up you and your ex-boyfriend? About a year and a half. So
Halloween of 21, so quite a while. What did you dress up as on Halloween?
Is that really necessary? Chelsea, I think it's a pertinent question in this conversation.
It's important. The last few years I've dressed up as Trixie Mattel.
Okay, so that Chelsea, I feel like that's very informative. I feel like I needed to hear that.
Okay, well, and then how does that change and pivot your thinking, Andrew?
Well, I feel like you're a power bottom.
Okay, so you're definitely a power bottom. I think that it's a long time for you to be
still obsessing about your ex. So have you been to therapy?
I have, yes, but it's been quite a while just because I was seeing a woman therapist and her
and I really hit it off, but then she recommended I start seeing a gay therapist because I was
teaching her more than I was, I guess, getting back. So she recommended I see a gay therapist and...
She sounds like a bottom. Yeah, and the two guys that I saw, I didn't connect with them enough.
I felt like I was venting more than I was receiving, I guess.
How are you meeting people in Portland? Are you like on apps or is it just sort of more of a general?
You're just hanging out with bars and things or... A little bit of both, like,
grinders, but that's a lot of just like hookup culture, you know what I mean?
Yeah. Whereas like, so I went on a date last night, in fact, and I saw him on Instagram,
and that's kind of in a way, and I kind of reached out and just kind of went out on a limb like,
hey, I think you really handsome, kind of put myself out there. I said, I know this is a little
forward, but like, I think you really handsome, you seem like a cool guy. Can I take you out? So we
went out for a drink. So how'd that go? It was really positive. Yeah, it was really... Yeah,
good. It was a good experience. Yeah. Well, that's good. Yeah, I think you have like a lot going on.
I think you're like allowing yourself to fixate, which is just kind of like a mental game that
you're playing with yourself. And I think, you know, talk therapy is a good way to like,
deal with that because you shouldn't have to be obsessing about like, it's none of your business,
what he's doing with other people. He's not your boyfriend anymore. It really doesn't matter.
You're going to have like a succession of men in your life moving forward. And regardless of
Portland being a small town, so what? So like, the sooner you warm up to the idea of bumping into
him and not being so injured by it, I think the sooner that it will become normalized. And the
sooner you can move on from this kind of tethering you have to him. But the very good way to say
that Chelsea is like, he's not your ex-boyfriend. He's just a man. Just another person. Yeah. And
you should like, you should actually try to bump into him so that the quicker that that happens
and the sooner you get the ball rolling of normalizing it, even though if it might feel gross right now
or like you're not ready, I think you should kind of just force yourself. It's been enough time.
And just force yourself to be around him when, you know, you see him be cool. Hey, it's nice to see
you. Don't bring anything else other than just complete like, just be cool. So that way, you can
leave that situation. He knows. And then you kind of diminish the tension between you two.
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think I run into him primarily at the gym and like, he'll ask me to
walk the dog or watcher if he's out of town. And there's part of that. I don't like that.
I don't love it either because I don't like to be in his space. Like, I don't like going
into his apartment. I don't mind running into him at the gym. Sure. But yeah, it's like, I don't
really want to be in a space. I don't want to. And I think part of it's like, I identify that I'm
still a little injured by some of these things. And like, it's all feels very surface level. What
we end up talking about, it's all like, BS. Hey, how's it going? Just stupid stuff. I feel like
there's part of me that I still want to talk about some things that I'm injured by and some
unresolved feelings, I guess. But I don't know. I just need to like, let that go and move on. And
yeah. Yeah. Maybe you just let that go. I think it's a practice of letting things go. It doesn't
sit off the easiest thing because you can hold grudges against people and lay blame because
as long as you're doing that, you're kind of the victim. And I think there's a little bit of victim
and victiminess in there. You know what I'm saying? I think you should really, really try to practice
letting go of any anger you have towards him. Relationships don't work out all the time. It's
really nobody's fault. You know what I mean? It's just a matter of chemistry and longevity. So like,
don't hold, I mean, I know you do and I know we all do, but it's something that you want to start
thinking about and actually start practicing, like whether it's a mantra, whether it's a meditation,
whether it's you reminding yourself every morning, like you want to give out love,
not resentment, you know, as long as you're holding on to that, it'll kind of have a negative
effect on you. Sure. Okay. I mean, that's something that I could use as well. So thank you.
He's getting double dose. We're giving that IP to you and we're giving advice to you and to
Andrew. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. You've also given it to me, Devin. So like now when you're like looking
to date, people are you looking for the opposite sort of person or are you looking for someone who's
sort of similar? Like, I've not been on the dating apps, but when you're scrolling through,
are you looking through sort of a similar situation or do you feel like you've passed that? Are you
hitting on him right now? Are you Andrew? Are you hitting on the phone? No, I have a boyfriend,
Chelsea. Oh, oh, I'm sorry, Devin. Are you looking for someone that's based in New York and
just saying whoopsie doodle. Anyway, Devin, are you good with that advice? Can you start doing
that? Can you do you understand what I'm saying when I say start practicing it? Like, does that
register? Yeah, just sort of like, like, I kind of forget about it. Move on. Just kind of like,
let the reset like kind of like give up the resentment. Yeah, look at him with love. Like,
whenever I don't like someone, I always have to say, I'm like, love, just love people. Who
cares? You don't have to hang out with that person, but just show them kindness and love.
It's just good vibes to be given out anyway. You know what I mean? Sure. And I think kind of what
right now, what's kind of happening is we get into these little fights or spats. And so then I like
leave kind of like resentful and I'm like upset. And then I just like, where do you get in fights
and spats? Well, he's watching his dog. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, more watching the dog.
That's no, that's a wrap on that. Like Andrew said, he doesn't like that. I don't like that either.
Yeah. And you don't need to be like his friend. You don't don't need to be there to support him.
Especially you shouldn't be arguing with your ex-boyfriend. There's nothing to argue about.
You're not together. But that makes sense why you're still hung up a year and a half later,
since there's been this sort of constant contact. Yes, you are postponing this situation for yourself.
So you have to stop going over there and taking care of his dog. And you certainly have to stop
arguing with him. There's no more arguing. You just won't participate in it. Okay. Yeah. Okay,
you can do this. I can do it. Yeah. Go get him, Tiger. Okay.
Yeah. I did. Thanks for calling. All right. Yeah. Thank you guys. Thanks,
Seven. Some people need a very firm hand. I've known him as a real sweetheart. He was. And he
needed a swift kick in the ass because he's like, he did. He cannot walk to that man's dog. Going
over and watching and then fighting with that fuck. Oh, you're lucky. I'm fucking babysitting your dog.
I would never babysit anyone's dog. I once babysat this couple's, I worked with this girl at this
restaurant once and she asked me to babysit her dogs and stay at her house, which she thought was
like fun for me. It wasn't. And so I decided after two nights, I'm like, I can't stay here anymore. So
I just wanted to stay at my own place or I had a boyfriend or something. And so then I would just
leave the dogs there and go and feed them in the daytime and take them for like maybe a walk. Yeah.
And I did that the whole week. I was like the worst dog sitter in the world. But they were fine,
right? Yeah, they were. But I wasn't dog sitting them. I was feeding them. Well, that's one can
argue that's more important. Should we hop to our next caller? Yes. Let's go to our next caller.
We have another one. Yeah. I'm very excited. Okay. Well, this is live.
What do we got? What do we got? Ramon Ramon writes, Hey Chelsea, I'm having a serious problem.
My last three long term relationships have begun well, or so I thought they turned into toxic
relationships that involved addiction, me being subjected to emotional abuse, manipulation,
and sometimes violence. I ignored quite a few red flags at the beginning of these relationships
because I was raised to give people the benefit of the doubt. I would also try to ignore the bad
and focus on the good, helping they would change. And they never did. My question is,
how do I avoid ending up in yet another relationship with a toxic or narcissistic manipulator without
sacrificing my belief that people can change and deserve second chances? I'm taking some steps already
like listening to my intuition, being careful with ignoring red flags as they appear, and just
generally trying to protect my energy and not give it so freely. I appreciate any help and insights.
Ramon. Hi, Ramon. Hi. Ramon, that was a very thorough description of your relationships.
Thank you for sharing that. Well, thank you. Yeah, it's been three in a row of verbal and physical
abuse, addiction, and then realizing my most recent relationship was a narcissist on top of all that
as well. Oh boy, how long did the relationships last? So my first with my ex-husband was 10 years.
Oh, wow. Yeah. And then the third one was about five and this most recent was three. So,
so I've spent 20 years. That's a long time. Yeah. Chelsea, what are you?
I mean, I'm sure that you had a lot of childhood trauma. Have you? Yeah. So I was kind of raised
to give people second chances. And that's part of why I wrote in was I don't want to give that up.
And I want to see people for who they are. But I did. My dad used to be my mom and I grew up as
an only child. So I guess there's a lot of I can relate to people and maybe in these situations and
I kind of bring them in. Yeah. Okay. Well, I can tell by everything you're saying that this is like
textbook trauma. You believe that this is you deserve this and that you can fix people and that
this is good enough for you and that's not good enough for you. And what you're in charge of is
changing the narrative of your own story. You're the only person in the world that can say,
this is beneath me. I am no longer settling for this. Like no one else can do that for you. So,
until you're ready to make that decision and that declaration to yourself and to the entire world,
then you're going to keep bringing these people into your life. You have the ability to stop this.
It does not have power over you. It does not. Yeah. With the most recent relationship,
I did end it. He's still harassing me here or there, but for the most part, I'm away from it and
I'm being more protective of my energy who I give it to, who's around me and just trying to be
observant that I don't again court that same energy to me and listening to podcasts like this
and some other resources I've been using is kind of getting me to that headspace where I can
maybe be a little more defensive without giving up my belief that we should take people as you are.
To think of it as a negative, those two things aren't mutually exclusive is what I'm trying to
say. You can hold all of that in a very positive light. It's not like you're rejecting people.
You're protecting yourself. You don't have to think of it as a rejection or as a defense mechanism.
It's a self-preservation, a self-protection, something that you haven't been practicing
your entire life because of something that you had no control over that happened to you as a child.
But the difference here is you're an adult now. You have all the control and you're choosing to
still set up situations that are emblematic of your childhood. It's so much simpler than you even
think it is and it's so much easier for somebody like an outsider to point it out to you. I just
want you to have clarity about how easy this can be once you really make the decision that you're
done. It sounds like you already have. Like I said, that relationship's over. I still feel for
these people and I wish them ill. I want them to be the most successful people on the planet just
over there, away from me. When I left this person, I said, look, I got to look out for me. I got to
protect myself because I was getting to a really dangerous space. It was just very stressful. I was
constantly fight or flight. I couldn't sleep because I'm like, is it going to come into the
bedroom and cause a scene or do something drastic? But now I'm in my own place, my own space and just
trying to focus, as you said, on protecting myself. I don't want to lose that empathy for other people.
You're not going to lose that. You don't lose that stuff. That stuff is ingrained in you. You either
have empathy and you don't. I mean, you can gain empathy if you don't have it. You can practice it.
I've done that. But you don't lose what you have. That's a natural gift. Most people have it. Some
don't. That's a separate conversation. But I believe in you. I believe that you can totally
make these changes. I know you can because you're thinking about it. You don't have to be worried
about these kinds of people coming into your life. You know how to recognize it right away.
You have a huge advantage. It's not a rejection. It's a protection. Just put a positive word to
every negative word you're thinking because there always is one and it's usually the opposite.
You don't have to think of empathy as the thing you're going to lose. The truth is there are red
flags. There are orange flags. There are yellow flags. As you move forward, trying to-
There are purple and blue and green. But just because you have empathy for someone doesn't mean
you need to let them into your innermost being or your checking account or your life or any of
those other things. Like Chelsea said, protecting your energy and recognizing like, oh, this person
is showing me red flags. That means they're not a good partner for me. But like, I can still be
friends with them, whatever. But seeing like some yellow flags like that might be okay. It just
depends on what that is for you. But also knowing like you have a history of being okay with those
red flags coming into your space. It's part of that acceptance. You know, I accept the people as they
are and I'm good at compartmentalizing things because I think I did that as a kid. A compartmentalized
oh, my dad beat my mom, but he also buzzed me. So how do I resolve that? So when a person's terrible
to me, I'm like, well, but they're really sweet here. So I'll just put this away and I'll fix it later
or we'll work on that. But yeah, now, I mean, after, you know, 18 years of this, I think I'm done.
Yeah, I think you're done too. But yeah, I think the key is I just didn't want to just be so cold and
just like shut it all off, but kind of bouncing it better, not giving it away and, you know, losing
that part of me. But also like you're the conductor. It's not up to other people. It's up to you. So
it's easy when you're in charge to, you know, that like, okay, I'm the one who's making these
decisions ultimately to allow these people into your lives. So it's not like, you know, you have to
defer to somebody else or you have a partner that you're who's doing this. It's you. So even easier
to fix. I wonder if there is an opportunity here because you are continually attracted to
these people who are horrible. You got to read that book attached also. That talks all about these
kinds of unhealthy attachments. Have you read that? I got it on my audio. Read it. Start it today,
please. There might be a way to bring in some reinforcements, whether that's the friend who's
been telling you for years, this guy's bad for you. He's awful for you. Get away. Bringing in a friend,
bringing in a therapist to be like, okay, here's what I'm experiencing in this new relationship.
Is this actually healthy? Is this something I should move toward or cut off right now or move
into the friend zone right now? Yeah, my company has some resources for therapy that I'm going to,
you know, look into because it's just unacceptable. I can't do it anymore. I mean, it's just been
too long. You know, my age, I don't want to have another one of these pop up. So yeah, I definitely
want to focus on making that not happening. Yeah. And they're not your responsibility, you know,
these other people in the relationship. Yeah, Ramon, go get your act together. I've got faith in you.
Thank you. And like I said, this podcast actually, when I was in the darkest times with this person,
helped me get away from it because these conversations that you have with people and the people you have
calling in, it really did help me a lot. Thank you. I'd love to hear that.
All right. Well, thanks for calling in Ramon. Bye, Ramon. Thank you guys.
Jesus. Yeah. And that Ramon. I'm not. Lots of serious stuff. You guys.
Serious business. We're running a medical practice here. This is serious shit. I know your doctors.
Everyone needs a self esteem boost. Everybody. Everybody needs like an injection of self esteem
every morning. It is really true. I think we could all use that. I know. I wish I knew what that
could be. I mean, I feel like you come in the room and it's an injection of self esteem. It's just
like, like you give that to yourself in the morning because you come in the room and it's just like,
here I am. I'm present. I don't know. It's big energy in a good way. Thank you. I appreciate that.
You are good energy. Andrew, I think let's take a quick break.
Okay. Oh my God. You always interrupt the breaks, Andrew. Good.
They're so long. Okay. We're going to take a quick break. Andrew's not going to say anything
and then we'll be right back. Last season, millions tuned into the betrayal podcast to hear a shocking
story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning and now we're sharing an all new story of betrayal.
Ashley Litten was helping her husband set up a business fan mail account when she discovered
a terrible secret. I scrolled down and that's when I saw a hidden folder and I opened it.
What the hell did I just see? I was scared that he was coming home.
What Ashley discovered that day was a secret so dark she feared for her life.
She was like, Oh my God, I got to get out of the house. He's going to find out that I've seen this.
He's going to come kill me. Listen to season two of betrayal on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Between April 1971 and September 1972, six young black girls were snatched off the streets in
Washington, D.C. It took four murders before the police finally realized that one person was responsible.
I will admit the others when you catch me if you can. Side freeway fan.
This child was laying on the side of the road. It appeared that she was probably
either dragged out of the car or thrown out of the car. The person said I murdered your daughter.
The killer believed that he may have been seen by the mother.
That guy is, he's out of sync with even the worst people. I thought that they would catch him.
I thought it was just a matter of time. Is it possible that the killer is still alive?
Listen to freeway phantom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
If you're looking for someone to help you unpack Queen Charlotte, a Bridgerton story,
you're in the right place. It's me, Gabby Collins. Come with me because on Queen
Charlotte, the official podcast, we're stepping behind the scenes and the drawing boards of this
team to experience the life breathed into the Bridgerton prequel. Listen to the leaps
executive producer and series director Tom Barrica took to capture the feeling that's put that lump
in your throat. And you've got to catch creator Shonda Rhimes. She's dropping gems, diamonds and
mics. On this podcast, we're going beyond the basic line of questioning and getting to the heart
of the show, all while appreciating the contributions of the show's creative teams and remarkable cast.
Go inside each episode of Queen Charlotte, a Bridgerton story with the creatives, the cast,
and creator Shonda Rhimes leading the way. Listen to Queen Charlotte, the official podcast,
Thursdays on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or anywhere you get your podcasts.
And we're back! We are back. This one should be an easy one for Andrew.
I'm back. I'm back. He's back. Dear Chelsea, I'm 41 and my boyfriend is 26. We met almost two years
ago and he was super inexperienced sexually. When we met, we agreed we'd have an open relationship,
but so far we've been monogamous. Our sex is very regular but incredibly vanilla. I've tried to
spice it up, but it's been met with very little enthusiasm. I feel like he needs to experience
more dick, a variety of dick. The thing is, I get anxiety when I think about opening him up to
others, but I really think it's time to bring this up. What's your advice for getting myself
comfortable and accepting that this young guy deserves my permission for more penetration?
Robert. Andrew? Robert. Robert. No. No. He's 41 and his boyfriend is 26. Yes. And they've
been together since his boyfriend was 24. No, get. No. Let him go. Let him free. Like totally go.
Yeah. Or open. Who cares? Just let him. Yeah. He let him. I mean, you can't force him to go get
dick. No. But you can make the suggestion. Yes. No. Let him go, Robert. Let him go.
Everyone needs to sew their oats. I really am a firm believer of that. I mean, how do you know
what you like unless you try tons of different things? Yes. You do a bunch of different stuff
and then figure it out. No. Robert, let him go. How old were you when you lost your virginity, Andrew?
I was 16. Are you Gold Star? What is that? I'm Gold Star. I mean, never has a woman.
Gold Star, but not platinum. Oh, wait. What's platinum? Born BSC section.
So never touched a vagina. Never touched a vagina. Got it. I'm just going to know.
Platinum. Wow. Okay. Fantastic. What's better than platinum? Anything? No. I mean, I don't know.
Their mother, if your mother was a father and you never were even inside a woman's body.
Well, no, that's a major cause you have to, well, no, I have to take that one through.
Workshop it. Workshop it. I will continue to workshop it. I'm sure it won't offend anybody.
Me questioning. Right. Well, we're ready to wrap it up, Andrew. I'm going to encourage everybody
to get your book. Well, thank you so much. And I can't thank you enough for
having me again. Huge, huge fan, first time caller, but longtime listener and man to man
and my fan of yours. And I'm so happy to meet you. Thanks, honey. It's so nice to meet you.
We could end with that. Should I sing something? Of course. Wait, make sure you guys all get a
copy of Uncle of the Year. That's his second book, Andrew's second book. Congratulations on the
publication. It's very funny. Everybody grab a copy and read it. You're going to love it.
Thank you. No problem. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye. Bye.
And I have just announced new stand updates for my little big bitch tour, guys. I announced
25 new cities. These are probably a lot of the cities people have been mentioning in the comments.
I start out in East Hampton. I go to New York, DC during North Carolina,
LA, Phoenix, Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Chicago, Madison, Portland, to name
just some. I will be performing at the Kennedy Center. Everybody, that's in DC, October 6.
I'm super psyched to be performing there. Also, I just added second shows in New York, DC,
Seattle, and San Francisco. There are more. I have dates coming up for the next three months,
and then more dates coming up in the fall. So those have all been announced. They're on my
Instagram page, or you can go to ChelseaHannah.com. Thank you.
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at dearchelseypodcast at gmail.com,
and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad
Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHannah.com.
Last season, millions tuned into the betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception.
I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all-new story of betrayal.
Ashley Litten was helping her husband set up a business fan
mail account when she discovered a terrible secret. I saw a hidden folder, and I opened it.
What the hell did I just see?
Listen to season two of betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
On Queen Charlotte, the official podcast, we're stepping behind the scenes and the
drawing boards of this team. To experience the life breathed into the Bridgerton Prequel,
listen to the leaps executive producer and series director Tom Baraka took to capture the feeling
that puts that lump in your throat. And you've got to catch creator Shonda Rhimes.
She's dropping gems, diamonds, and mics. You can listen to Queen Charlotte, the official podcast,
every Thursday, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows.
Between April 1971 and September 1972, six young black girls were snatched off the streets in
Washington, D.C. This child was laying on the side of the road. The person said, I murdered your
daughter. The killer believed that he may have been seen. I will admit the others when you catch
me if you can. Side Freeway Phantom. Listen to Freeway Phantom on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
♪♪♪♪