This is a headgum original.
♪♪♪
♪♪♪
♪♪ Still on the toothbrush, some shade, keep keep keep with the gaze ♪
♪ It's time to drag on, time to drag on, drag on, drag on, drag on ♪
Oh, God! Why?
I am here hosting the one and only RuPaul's Drag Race recap podcast,
I'm Bob Beibol and I am over the moon.
I'm on O'Gappian. We're going to talk about this Season 15 reunion,
and we have an incredibly talented, amazing person here today.
They're a writer, they're a novelist, they've written TV, they co-created Bel Air.
I mean, they have a million credits. And I am, they wrote,
Oh, my government means to kill me. Am I saying it right? My government...
That's perfectly right. My government means to kill me.
Oh, my God. I just started it so good.
Listen! Am I saying your name right?
That is perfect. You've been...
You should have no doubts about your ability here today. You've been great.
So far, it's absolutely perfect.
I just started the book. Well, let's go ahead and plug the book.
First of all, I think it's just one of the best titled books ever.
My government means to kill me. It just like grabs you,
I think. And I... It speaks to the heart of the matter. Yeah.
I think it speaks to the heart of the matter. And maybe it feels really real right now, especially.
But I'm early in the journey and I was just learning, obviously,
I'm very early in the book with a Morris bathhouse. What is it called?
Maureen Morris. Mount Morris. Mount Morris.
And then I started doing research being like, this is real.
Oh, no. I mean, that's the fun of the book for me. It's a novel.
Yeah. But I... It's historical fiction. So I took as many true things
and put them in there as possible. And I'm trying to put up pull up stories
from the mid 80s that people don't know, even if you think you know gay history.
So, I mean, most people know that during the height of the age crisis,
they closed a lot of the gay bathhouses and spas in New York and in San Francisco.
But they didn't close Mount Morris baths.
It was the one that served the black community in Harlem.
A lot of reasons. You can guess why maybe they didn't care to close that bathhouse.
Because my government means to kill me. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, it figures in. I mean, that's... I mean, I didn't know.
I mean, this book, you know, I wrote this probably two years ago
and it takes a long time to come out.
It's feeling very timely now in ways I couldn't have anticipated.
Oh, my God. And certainly didn't want.
No, no one wants that to be true, but it's... Unfortunately, I like that we're talking about it
because I mean, just this week, I mean, two... I mean, the young black gentlemen who were ex...
ex-spauled? What? My God.
What am I trying to say? Or she'd...
They were expelled. They were expelled. I'm trying to say ex-spulsed.
But that ain't a word, mama.
They were expelled for peacefully protesting gun violence.
Wow. And yet the white woman who was one of their allies was not.
And God bless her for saying like, it's because I'm white.
Yes. Oh, yeah. I'm very privileged. I'm white.
What are we going to do?
Like, what are we going to do? We're going to fight.
We're going to fight because I mean, that's the thing.
I mean, we don't roll over. And that's what I love about being both black and gay.
I'm part of two communities that have faced the worst this country can throw at them.
And we prevail in the end. It does get dark.
There are serious losses that hurt deeply, but we're going to win.
Yeah. I confidently feel that too. I really do.
Like, I really feel... I see the light in the tunnel.
Even when, you know, I hear people just reminding us that like, this isn't new.
Unfortunately, this is not new. We had a precedence change when women were allowed to vote
when the civil rights movement happened. I mean, obviously during just abolition,
like abolitionist movement, it's like, this has happened before where people finally say,
no, we're not going to do this anymore.
One of the things I think of it.
One of the things that I think I try to get across in the book is that we think of advocacy
work, civil rights movements, all those things.
It's easy to think of them as history, as work that was done in the past.
It is the work of our lives. We will all have to do this.
We will all have to fight for our rights and the rights of future generations.
That is a lifelong goal. That is a lifelong work.
And unfortunately, we don't get to put it down. It will never be done.
Yeah. Yeah, there's no way... I don't know how I'm not trying to be cynical,
but like, there's just no way. I mean, like, it's incredible the way young trans people
are showing up for themselves.
And there's just no way that these people who don't believe a woman
should control her own body are going to easily accept that a trans person exists,
which is like such a fucking shame, or even worse for them,
that a trans person wants to write to medical health.
Like, they want to control their body and medically take care of themselves
because this country doesn't even want normal people to take care of themselves.
Well, one of the things, I mean, it's astounding that the people who are trying to oppress us
don't get this. But once you've given people a taste of freedom,
once they've had a right, once they've had a freedom, they'll never just surrender it.
Like, you like, oh, well, we used to have control of your body, we used to have abortion rights.
Well, we've taken those away. In what world is the population of women who want that?
Going to ever go, oh, okay, you've canceled my rights.
I'll accept that. It'll never happen. We'll fight you until the end of time.
Blows my fucking mind. The 50-year-late downgrade.
We're going back 50 years.
Oh, it's a mess. So go buy. My government means to kill me.
I mean, obviously all of your work speaks to this experience.
Tell us more a little bit more about Belair.
Belair, Belair is something that I really enjoyed working on.
It fell into my lap. I work with TJ Brady. We're writing partners.
And it was already in the works before we joined the project.
And I remember seeing the trailer and thinking, that's really smart.
I hope they figure out how to do that.
Really?
And then it turns out figuring out how to do that was really hard.
So fascinating. So wait, the trailer was out and then somehow you got involved.
The trailer was out and then they decided to actually go for it with this reboot.
And everybody kept saying it's Belair as a drama.
And I think the first time they came to us, people were like, no, no, it's Belair as a drama.
I'm like, yes, yes. I saw the trailer. But where is that going?
How does that have legs?
Right.
And TJ and I became part of the sort of small team that figured out how that was going to go.
I've worked in television a long time.
I've worked on the shy and the 100 and narcos and animal kingdom and all these places.
There has been nothing like Belair and I don't think there ever will again be anything like that.
What we didn't take into consideration is people love that show so much that I've never seen at the beginning so much.
So many people who were adamant this shouldn't be done.
You're going to ruin our childhood. Like I was almost like, are we all going to stain our reputation doing this?
And we took some big swings and the audience did something it almost never does.
It changed its mind. You would see tweets.
Yeah.
Yeah, that never happens.
There were tweets where people were like, I thought this was going to be horrible. Actually, I like it.
Yeah.
And you've been telling other people you should watch it.
I remember the Internet moment.
We got nine million viewers.
Of course it was easy. It's easy to poo poo.
But I remember that Internet moment where I was like, oh my God, this is stupid.
And now it seems like it's had so much critical and audience success.
I mean, I'll just tell you straight out.
I mean, there was a part where we were teaching and I were showing running the first season.
We're trying to get the pilot up. We're trying to figure out what these early stories are.
And I thought in my head, like my goal at that particular moment was, I hope we don't embarrass ourselves.
Yeah.
I don't want to do something that follows me for the rest of my career as a mom.
Sure.
And so, and then the first season gets nominated for an NAACP Image Award.
That is incredibly validated.
That's amazing.
That's amazing. As someone who's written on projects that were embarrassing, I'm glad you've made it that face.
It's not fair. I mean, I think the one thing I think viewers of any show don't realize is how hard everybody working on it is
really like giving blood and sweat to it.
Yeah.
And if you are unsatisfied with what you're seeing as a viewer, imagine how we feel.
Oh my God.
We're unsatisfied too. You didn't like that episode. I didn't like it either.
And I had to work on it for nine shooting days, 14 hours at a time.
A hundred percent.
No viewer is ever more disappointed than the people working on a show that fails.
Truly. It's like cooking dinner on the sinking Titanic.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like dinner service.
You know, it's like, but the ship.
I mean, by the way, another thing is viewers, if after two or three episodes you don't like a show, you get to check out.
Yeah.
We also know a show is not working after two or three episodes.
Yeah.
We don't get that option.
We have to stay here and keep working on this loser to the bitter end.
Thank you very much.
Yeah.
We've all been there.
We've all been there.
Well, I mean, I fucking love that you're here.
I fucking love that we keyed over the Internet.
I can't believe you listened to Drag Her.
I was like very gagged and you've been here since the beginning.
Nicole Byers.
I mean, I've been through all the iterations, all the...
Even when it was with this tuck.
Oh, yeah.
I love it.
I mean, I went and...
I remember when like, you know, it was like Nicole's stand-up career and Joel can boost your stand-up career.
So, like every year it was like, every week it was like,
Hey, I'm not going to be here, but so and so we'll be stepping in for me.
I'm like the Mandalorian, but with fucking, with drag talk.
I'm the last one standing.
I braved the hordes of Drag Race fans to do what's right for this land.
And we're the only one.
So it's like...
Yeah, I mean, it deserves two minutes.
It deserves two minutes.
It really is.
Where would anyone else get this content about Drag Race?
I mean, before we started, I literally shut you up because you were saying something too good
that needed to be on the podcast.
And we need to just talk about, obviously, like, what I love.
One reason I love doing the podcast is like, I get to have a little bit of a point of view
as a queer person of color and share that experience as a Drag Race fan.
And you were saying something really interesting of how those, frankly, those race relations have changed
in the show, in the fandom, in the past couple of years.
I feel like we're in a good place these last few seasons where
when we get to the end of the season, they're generally two or three people.
And I feel like I will be okay if any of these people win.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there were these middle years where I think the show was still realizing what its power was in social media.
And the fandom was learning what its power was in social media, and it was ugly.
And it really, to my taste, I mean, I'm a black gay man.
It just seemed like we were having a race war in the Drag Race fandom.
Yeah.
And they were supporting people who I was just like, this seems like you're forgiving this because they're white
and you are hard on these people because they've got color.
I think that still exists, unfortunately, in some fans.
But I think it, I felt like it used to determine the outcome.
Mm.
You know, I felt like I think the show has gotten better about, about sort of side stepping out or rising above it
however you want to play it.
Is there a year in particular you're thinking of?
I mean, it has taken me a long time to warm to Trixie Mattel.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And having to remind myself that it's not her fault that they put that crown on her head.
It's not her fault.
But I really was like, how did you win this season, like essentially winning no challenges?
I'll see.
Like somebody who just coasted to the middle and then just ended up as the winner.
I thought this, this can't happen again.
And I think that was a real, I think that's probably the wake up call where they were like,
we can't let this happen again.
Yeah, I hope so.
I think you're right.
It's like as accomplished as she is, she's amazing.
But like in that show, in the optics of all the other remaining girls being queens of color,
and with the reality of Kennedy Davenport, certainly giving more in the final lip sync,
it felt weird.
And I mean, I think, you know, I think it was a PR move.
I mean, I think it was a really good thing for whatever reason, trust Trixie more to carry the brand.
But also, isn't that undercurrent of racism right there?
Well, I mean, here's another thing is like, I understand, and again, Trixie is incredibly talented.
And I do like her now.
I love her.
I mean, the thing I thought was like, they basically saw talent in her that they could use beyond the show.
Yes, I think you're right.
But you've got to make sure that talent comes through in the show.
You've got to make sure, I mean, like, let's be honest, there are times where they pick a lip sync
song to favor one queen over another.
Fully, fully fully fully.
They never set her up for success during the season to win and dominate in a way that validated
where they wanted to go at the end of the season.
I think, yeah, I think they got surprised themselves.
I, you know, which is why they've never done the jury thing again.
Producers don't want to be surprised.
They want control.
Yeah.
And the jury thing was they actually lost control, it seems, doing that.
Because I think they thought people would choose Changela.
The show wanted Changela in the top too.
Even in the edit, the editors were like still edit as if Changela's going to win.
Like, that was wild.
That was, that was pretty heartbreaking moment as a Drag Race fan.
Yeah.
Yeah, good point, good point.
So now I feel like the show is having, is being better aware.
Maybe even their own subconscious biases.
Oh, yeah.
So, yeah.
So, yeah.
So, yeah.
So, yeah.
So, yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think she was comfortable in that, in what she was wearing.
No.
I guess whatever she was wearing was hurting her, but she was just, I hate to get like to reinforce the gender binary, but it was to me. So, such a masculine football player stance.
I think, I think you're right.
I think you're right.
But then there were certain, there were certain people who just sort of disappeared in this.
I didn't, I didn't think Robin Fierce. Oh my God. I was so mom because I love Robin Fierce.
It's, you know, I think they were like waiting to be invited into the chat. And that is not how this works.
Yeah.
Robin, you're too nice.
I think when it comes up, I just, I start a fight.
Who cares? Even afterwards, I think you'd be like, Amethyst, I just wanted to, I wanted some screen time.
Yeah. That's what this is.
Your name out of my fucking mouth.
And your dick sucks. Your dick is nasty. Like, I mean, just go there. Have some moments.
Give us something to remember.
Because that's what, that's what's going to get you all starts. I mean, it actually knocks me out because I think Robin and Amethyst missed a big thing here.
If they had made more of that moment, you put them both on all stars just to see them continue that conversation.
Oh, bitch.
Your whole is, is more better than a lemon head. Like, just go for it. Just attack each other.
I rang it like a dinner bell. I mean, whatever you got to do.
I was, I was thrown because I thought you never say it's over. And Amethyst was like, oh, the chapter is over.
Like, I don't want to talk about this anymore.
Right.
Well, guess what? The audience wants to talk about it.
Yes.
Give us some new chapters.
You know how far, okay. And this is, okay, this is, this is not to denigrate. This sounds like I'm denigrating.
But like, we didn't know who Alaska was, but when Alaska was Sharon Needle's boyfriend, that launched her, she's obviously deserving, but it launched her into the spotlight of Drag Race casting.
Yes. I mean, I, as somebody who loved.
Tell a story.
Well, as somebody who loves soap operas into this dying day, that's what this is. You need a storyline, honey.
Yeah.
It's not enough to be talented and beautiful.
No.
Why do we invest in you? What is the arc of you? And some queens get that. And I thought some of them didn't.
It is funny that though you say that. And I do have to say, Sasha Colby's, I mean, Sasha Colby's story is she is the Obi-Wan Kenobi of Drag.
Like, I am, I have come from the ether. I have reappeared in human form to anoint you all with my drag excellence.
Yes. And I will, I mean, and she is so incredible. She's going to like lift this franchise past its sense.
Yes.
You know, like she's, like every bad thing that ever did to the trans community, well, when she gets that crown in her head, will be made right.
Like she is their salvation. I've been thinking about what would it take for her not to win?
It's, it is just no way. There's just no way. There's just no way. I personally don't think it makes any sense to crowd anyone else.
You see the adoration, Roo's eyes. I feel like in this episode, they really showed their cards with Roo being like,
which you are fucking it.
Yeah.
They unseen stuff. They were like, oh, we can't put this in the real show because it tips it so hard.
Exactly. They cut it out of that last episode where she, they gave her a fourth win because it was just like too much. It was like too clear.
I thought, I mean, my thing with Sasha is I was like, what if she broke every bone in her body? But I think Mama would still come out there in a full body cast.
I do too.
Like she's just so good. And nobody can be angry about it, which is, which is where I think you want the fan base to be, where they might love somebody else more.
But they cannot argue against who you put the crown on.
Yeah. I think you're right. I mean, the top four is gaggy. The top four is my favorite. I've said it. My favorite top four since like season nine.
It's just to me, just murderers row of talent and personality. And I love them. And I do live that they're all queens of color.
I do love that. I mean, I also, I mean, Anitra has been something. I mean, Sasha Colba is great, but Anitra has my heart.
Well, speaking of Obi-Wan Kenobi, she's like the Luke Skywalker. Like, you know what I mean? She's like, she has, I don't know why I'm all the referencing Star Wars like motherfucker today.
But like, she is that like, you are talent and you are like the young talent. It doesn't mean you couldn't win. She could win. But she's, she's the, the rookie choice.
Like the, the, maybe like the Wonderkind, like the Neo Matrix choice. Like you're like, for some reason, you're just, you're not going to love her for years and years and years.
Fully. She also, I mean, there's something, it's beyond just admiring her talent and like, just that she's lovely and sexy.
Like, I want to like do her taxes and help her set up a retirement account. I want to help her become her best version of herself.
I want to like secure her provider future. You want to take care of her? Yeah. I mean, she's just like, oh.
Well, we're going to actually talk about Anitra's SIP IRA after this break. But first, Silenthrachied, I feel like taking a break.
This show is brought to you by BetterHelp. Hey, Divas. I know that my mental wellness is a constant, gall relationship. I, girl, it's like, there's the good me and the not is good me.
There's literally like mono and then there's like, Emmanuel. It's like mono is like the pure child in me and Emmanuel is my legal name and also the representation of everything that tries to be.
I mean, I feel like everything that tries to stop me from being a sickening diva of ultimate con-tocity. Sorry for cussing.
But I just wanted to be real with you guys. BetterHelp makes my life better by being my most authentic self.
And I just can't tell you the things that I've discovered with the help of a licensed professional therapist from BetterHelp.
I have discovered things that I was hiding from myself. That's no, you know, that's no surprise to hear.
But I was able to change my life and change the way I love myself by getting these outside professional advices from people who have been doing this forever.
And thanks to BetterHelp, I was able to do it from the comfort of my home. Whether it's text, phone call, or video, I'm able to do it on my terms.
And that helps me actually be more vulnerable and open up.
So I've benefited so greatly from therapy that I can't help but wonder, maybe you should too.
I can't help but wonder, maybe you'd save money with BetterHelp because it's a little more affordable than traditional therapy.
And it's more convenient and flexible. Plus, these worldwide, like a hello web of professional therapists are all over the place and they can help you with your specific things.
Like for me, I'm looking for someone who can talk about body issues and my experience as a person of color and my suffocating family.
I need someone who can cover all of that and that might not be available to me locally and in person.
So why not discover your potential with BetterHelp?
Visit BetterHelp.com slash drag her today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.
H-E-L-P dot com slash drag her.
Bring back my break. We are here and I think it's just about time for us to chirp and burp because you know, obviously the runway was kind of inverted on this episode.
So I think we should chirp and burp these reunion looks as they presented them to us. What do you think?
Absolutely.
So we got the Guy of an Alphabetical Order. God bless. We got Amethyst coming up first in some sort of furry, pleather, eleganza. What do we think?
I mean, I think I would like it more if it was lit better. Like, I don't mean, I think unfortunately, she thought she was going to be on the main stage with a lot of lights.
I think a lot of this kind of got lost because it's in a dark theater.
At the Ace Theater. Mm-hmm. Darker theater.
To this may not have been the best choice for the venue, but I'm sure it's lovely. I just wish I could see more of it.
I sure am going to burp it. I don't get it. Pleather and then like a puppet and then fur.
I mean, she's delightful. Her face looks nice. But I am going to burp it. I don't understand what's happening.
I'm so confused. I'm going to burp it. Yeah, because I just think it's not a good thing for where they are.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what is she going to the furry? Is she going to the eagle to get fisted? Is she going to the furry convention? Where is she going?
Is that velvet? Is she wearing velvet? I can't look at it actually anymore. I'll throw up.
Okay. Anitra. Anitra. I'm going to chirp this. I mean, I love the hair. I love the makeup.
This pops. I mean, is in a dark place. I mean, I mean, that shot right there of her face.
Just she is so beautiful and so vibrant. You can't. I can't take Maya's off.
She's amazing. It's not my favorite thing. She's worn, but I do think it's gorgeous.
I don't know if I really get the hangy straps, but I don't really care her face, the crusted hair.
It works for me. So I'm going to give it a chirp. I mean, Anitra is perfect person.
And it's unfair. I'm giving her points because I like her. That's just the fact.
I mean, it happens to everyone. Welcome to entertainment though. Entertainment's not fair. We like who we like.
Aarra, my yari. I thought this was gorgeous. Very angelic.
This is pretty. It's like a white off the shoulder. I don't know how to even describe it.
Baggy blouse dress with medallions and jewels.
It sparkles. There's one high boot and then a heel. I just thought it's interesting.
Oh, it is. I didn't notice the asymmetry. Oh, that's really fun and weird.
I mean, she looks great. I'm going to give it a chirp. I don't like fully get it, but I think it's gorgeous.
Well, it's almost like it's like a fashion straight jacket. Yes. I'm seeing that. I'm seeing that.
You had a two, but I mean, that's correct.
Hasn't some of the mental health community said please stop making straight jackets fashion?
Well, she didn't she doesn't bind it around herself. I will say it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a homage to straight jackets.
It's tasteful, respectful homage to people in the kukubin. It's a chirp. I like it. I mean, the hair is gorgeous.
She's stunning. Her face is great.
And any hole is goal, you know?
Okay. Irene Dubois.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alien, spiky, 3D printed spines all over. What do we think?
Irene realized that she has to make a statement and she she absolutely needs to remind everybody who she is.
I think this is part of that. It's great. As I look at it now, look at the boot and the way it.
Oh, it's probably digging into her thigh. Oh, yeah.
I think this is part of the issue of why she found it uncomfortable to sit later.
Because there's like those boots are made for standing. They are not made or walking.
No, no, no, just these boots were made for standing. And I'm just what the hell do. Yeah.
I wonder are there spikes on her ass? Is that why she couldn't sit? I'm trying to figure out.
I think all of it. I'm I'm I guess is that all of this is incredibly uncomfortable.
That's often what that high fashion is. Fully. I got to say, it's a chirp. It's a chirp.
There's a lot of puss. She's really showing us her puss, but I love it. I love the hair.
I love the makeup. It's a chirp. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It makes you kind of. I mean, you know,
she's been showing her outfits on Instagram, but it is one of those things where you go, God,
maybe I would have liked to have seen what she would have done if she had gone further.
I would have loved it. Which is the case for all stars. That's your all stars case right there.
You are interesting enough. We wish we'd seen more of you. I think she's a good.
And I mean, she was starting stirring up, but I mean shit this episode, which again, she gets it.
She was like, let me get my five. Let me get in there. Let me start some shit.
And I love that mistress calls her out on it. But again, yeah, do get get in there, bitch.
Jack's. Jack's. It's gorgeous. I like Jack. I do think Jack doesn't know how to dress.
That is 100% true. Like, I mean, I'm looking at her hair and face. Oh my God.
But now I'm looking at the garment. What the fuck? What is this? What is this?
This looks like a you ripped a twix bar in half and put it on your body. What is this?
She looks like a background singer for like SWV. I mean, it's just like.
Slowly. It is a 90s moment, but it's not big enough to actually be good. I mean, she's she fades into the background.
She does. I still have to chirp. Okay. I'm chirping her face and hair because that is perfect for me.
Yeah. So I'm giving the chirp. I'm going to have a purpose. I just I was I was.
Jack Jack's throughout the season. I was sort of disappointed with the taste level and the fashion choices.
Sure. Fully. And as a cunt with no taste myself, I relate like I relate to Jack's because I am someone who does not have taste for clothing.
So I get it, but you're right that like, unfortunately, when it comes to drag race and other girls are bringing insane shit every week.
The funny thing is, I actually think you personally don't need to have taste. You just need friends that you will listen to fully fully.
People can dress you. You show them what you want to put on and let them guide you.
Fully. I mean, a lot of people in the celebrity world have no taste on their own.
Fully. That's why they have stylists. Fully. Uh, period. Um, next we have the sickening, the gorgeous Lucy Liduka.
She looks great. She looks fantastic.
I feel like that's the best way she's had all season.
Yeah. Look, her mug perfect. I even like the shape of this garment. Um, I don't know what the garment saying.
I don't know why there's a seatbelt. It's saying look at me. Yeah.
Which is what I mean, which is on brand for Lucy. It is saying you bad. I'll be where.
Yeah. I'm not sure why she's wearing a airplane seatbelt.
Yeah, that part's interesting.
So sort of buckle the whole thing together, but the cape is dramatic. It's big. It's what you expect from her.
Yeah. You know, she's ready for her Vegas residency.
Yes. You know, she'll be at every rehearsal five minutes early, ready to call out, like raise her hand and be like,
excuse me, stage manager. I just want to make a note that Derek Berry was two minutes late.
And I just think the record should reflect that.
No, the director goes through his notes and then she goes through her notes for the cast.
Ha ha ha.
Fully.
Fully.
I have to chirp it. I look.
Oh, yeah. That's a chirp.
I like it. That's the thing.
Like Lucy, and she'll never get this.
Uh huh.
Like, like she is talented and you and there's a part of the audience that actually wants to like her.
She put her foot in her mouth every time she complained about not winning and all that.
She did that to herself.
She wouldn't have been much more loved if she had just been quieter.
I know.
Laugh. I mean, I've said this in two weeks past, but every time you're offended, laugh.
Like I get it.
Like, and yes, is that a defense mechanism I need to talk to my therapist about?
Yes.
Is it make me more likable?
Absolutely.
Like, laugh. Like at least be like, damn bitch, you got me.
Yes.
That hurt. That hurt. That's more fun than just being like, stoic, stone faced.
And, I mean, and Neatra comes into this competition and her opening line was something like,
there's no rest for this resting bitch face, which is great because it meant that she took the note.
This idea that she can be too hard and too serious and she needs to, and she's letting you know.
Yeah.
I know I come across this way, but I can lighten up.
I can make a joke out of what I am.
What a sense of humor.
And Lucy can't like do that.
I know.
Or thing.
She'll get there or she won't.
Luck to our London.
Wow.
Oh, yeah.
Giant slicked hair bow with this pink fluorescent, like, it's not, but it reminds me of, it just,
like, it looks, I'm trying to remember the name of the Japanese garment it reminds me of.
It looks like an amazing Japanese inspired garment.
It's beautiful. I love it.
It's a trip for me.
So she, so wonderful.
And I actually was when she got to the main stage and there was more light and then you could sort of see the bow in her hair.
That was even more breathtaking.
I mean, this is a, this is a good look here.
It does pop, but the more you look at it, the more you fall in love with it.
Yeah.
I mean, it looks so good.
The way she's integrated her hair and the makeup.
It's just gorgeous.
This is how you do simple, but it doesn't feel overly simple.
It's a chirp.
I mean, Lux can sometimes be grating with her confidence.
She's a bit, she can be a bit much.
Yeah.
But I'll be damned if she doesn't bring the goods.
Yeah.
I mean, she, if she's suffering from any drag delusion, it's the lowest level form.
I mean, she just, you know, she thinks everything she does is flawless, but I will say everything she does is excellent.
Yeah.
I think I'm thinking of the Yucata.
That's what I'm, the word I'm looking up.
Oh.
Whatever.
It's fucking fierce.
And I'm here for her overconfidence because she's like, she's so eloquently put it in online when she's fighting with Trinity the Duck.
Which have you caught any of that online?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
No, I'm on Lux aside.
Oh, fully on Lux aside.
And again, look, Trinity, like, I guess Trinity was bothered because she said her,
her fucking, Amanda Lepore wasn't very good on snatch game, which started and precipitated this beat between them.
But guess what?
Neither of your Amanda Lepore's were very good.
So we need like an outside referee just to be like, strike that from the record and move on.
It's a race to the bottom.
I mean, there is, there is something, you know, Anitra, again, we're just going to go back to her because I love her so much.
Like, she lets you love her.
She doesn't tell you why you should love her.
She just wants to happen.
Yeah.
And I think sometimes queens go a little far in telling us how great they are.
We will discover that.
We can make that determination.
Yes.
You don't have to keep hitting us in the head with it.
Yes.
Yeah.
I'm team Lux Trinity.
Look, you can make your point.
Sure, Trinity is allowed to say like, I don't like you very much, but I don't know why you would feel it's okay to see.
Yeah, they're both wrong.
I think they're both wrong.
I think especially with Trinity, it's just trying to get back in the conversation.
I always think every time we lose season, old queens try to like put their hooks in.
You're so fucking right.
Remember me?
I'm not here.
I'm going to say something me too.
Her TikTok is like something about it is so thirsty, like a thirsty dad energy.
Like I'm not just like, I'm going to do a TikTok trend, kids.
And I'm like, go live your life.
Don't do this.
That's not for everyone.
No, no, no, no, no.
Clearly podcasting was not for her.
But I can't.
Okay, this is so mean and there's no point for me to saying this, but I remember her actively not listening to people on her podcast and it drove me nuts.
Well, okay.
Can we talk about that for a second about it?
Yes.
Would you like to tell the children?
People think being in a podcast is easy.
They have like, it's just hard.
Yeah.
No, it's crazy.
You have to be present in the moment and then move forward and then keep it cute and then make a joke and then also not make a joke because not everything has to be a joke.
It's a balance.
Yeah.
And everyone can do it.
Famous.
And also, and some people might hate what I do and that's fine.
They're allowed to.
I embrace the hate like, because I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove to someone why they should like my podcast or not.
If they don't.
Well, that's another thing I want to remind queens.
I mean, you get this when you work on television shows.
Our job is not to wow everybody.
It's to find our audience.
Yeah.
And once you have your audience, that's who I'm speaking to.
That's who I'm catering to.
That's why I'm here.
And the rest of you can go pound sand.
I really.
Yeah.
I really do have to say like, it's the people who are kind enough to say, Hey, bitch.
I love your podcast.
I mean, I hope everyone listens, but I do see when queer people of color reach out.
Like queer people of color reach out to me the most.
I would say because they're like, it's so nice to like, that there's just a point of view out there.
Maybe that mirrors how I'm experiencing the show.
And that they're not getting in many other places.
Tea.
I mean, that's it.
Because the most popular ones.
And again, this isn't anyone's fault.
But, you know, people really look, there's just, there's the subconscious bias and the numbers don't lie.
People sure do like white people.
People.
Especially white people.
They seem to be really enamored.
There's a lot of them.
There's a lot of them.
So next.
Before we started race war.
Malaysia, baby doll, Fox.
I mean, wow.
Love it.
This is a chirp.
This might be a cacao for me.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean, right here.
I mean, this just that just this entrance look, I was like cinder straight to all stars.
Yeah.
I miss her.
I mean, that's nothing.
Like some of these queens come back and you're like, oh my God, I've missed you.
I forgot that I missed you.
I hate it when she went home and she has a sense of humor and she, I, well, she didn't own it as hard as I wanted to.
Like, what was it?
Was it a moment or they were like, what were you saying?
And then she did walk back to bullying charge.
Yeah.
I wish I had said bullying because I know that's triggering, which was very smart to get that.
You want to put a line through that.
That was smart.
I just wanted more of her being like, bitch, I was in my feelings.
This shows hard.
That happens when it's episode six and it becomes clear to you that you're not going to make it.
Like you really do look around at these other queens and you're like, it's, this dream of mine is slipping away and I didn't handle it well.
I think it fucks you up.
I think it fucks you all the way up.
Oh, yeah.
Cause everybody has to walk into that work room on the first day thinking I'm going to kill it.
And then it becomes clear that baby, I am drowning.
And not only am I not going to kill it, but I'm probably not going to make it to the final episode.
That's heartbreaking.
Yeah, to sit with that.
It reminds me of like season four when like the girls, two jiggly kalyentes face are like,
do you think you're going to win?
Like, and you see jiggly like kind of crumble and she can't confidently say, yeah, I think I'm going to win because deep down she's judging.
Oh God, it breaks your heart.
It's so heartbreaking.
And also at that time, we didn't know what we know now, which is you don't have to win.
No, no.
To have this become a career making opportunity for you.
Like that isn't.
Totally.
Isn't necessary for you to become someone that the fandom will love.
Yeah, fully.
Marcia Marcia Marcia.
I love this look.
Yes.
Yeah, this is a chirp.
This is a chirp.
Go Marcia.
I'm a fan.
I'm a fan.
Marcia wins just by putting a little more makeup on her face.
And she actually did have a sense of humor.
Yes.
Where she's like, I'm kind of a baby drag queen.
I will say that, but I'm a performer.
Yes.
I mean, and I did love that that she really people underestimated her.
Good for her.
Yeah, amazing.
Mistress Isabel Brooks.
I love it.
Yes.
I love it.
I am distracted that every time I see MIB I just think men in black, but that's not her.
That's me.
I mean, I kind of want her.
I mean, can she paint my face when I die?
I mean, I just really.
Oh.
I mean, can I just be in the coffin with the Mistress Isabel Brooks painted face?
I love this.
She's so good at it.
Mistress drives me crazy, but that is her intention.
Yes.
She is doing everything she means to do on that stage and in this competition.
And to that, I can only tip my hat.
Oh my God.
I think one of my favorite moments in this episode was when she said like, do you think Lucy's
being fake?
And she says, now or in the whole competition?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And she doesn't, she wasn't even joking.
She was like, no, I'm serious.
Now or the whole time?
That's a good thing for me.
A lot of this is, yes, absolutely.
That's the cacao.
I mean, there's a lot of queens who say shit and then quickly backpedal.
I mean, Mistress don't backpedal.
I love it.
She defined the season.
Truly.
For me, but feel free to disagree.
I know some people find her a bully.
Some people find it too much.
I went back and forth.
I mean, there was there were points where I thought this is too much.
But, and I do think she's guilty of being someone and we all know this person who likes to play and
likes to poke and poke and poke.
And then when they go too far, they want to go, well, honey, you know, I'm just joking.
And they don't like it when you call them for crossing the line.
So that is her.
But also that's sort of what you sign up for when you're dealing with that person.
Dish it back.
That is what you sign.
I mean, if I was her, all tea, I would just hit it right back.
Like she seems to be able to take it.
But again, yeah, if you're going to come for my gig, I'm going to come right back for
yours.
Like.
Okay, Princess Poppy giving Rebecca Glasscock cosplay.
Yes, there was Rebecca Glasslock sort of entrance look from season one.
It is, it is so hilarious.
Yes.
I mean, you scream when you see it.
And of course, like, you know, some people didn't know that who would know the reference.
You have to be such a drag race geek like us to care.
But.
Well, you know, I also like about this look.
I mean, God bless Princess Poppy, who sort of is having redefining her relationship with
drag.
You know, she says here I'm quitting.
She says she's not going to quit, but she doesn't seem to want to be a super drag superstar
in that way.
She isn't, she wants to sort of be a little.
Yeah.
Less of a performer.
I'm torn because like the, the, the cynic in me, the cynic in me is both like, I get your
sense of humor and stop underselling yourself.
You know, like.
It's a big confidence issue.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've taken a shit on myself, which is like, ha, ha, ha funny.
But also it's like, oh, that's coming from a deeply insecure place too.
Can I give her an award for like value, the best value shopper?
Because this look is funny and it's memorable and it didn't cost her thousands of dollars.
Absolutely.
Like some of these girls came to this, came to the show.
They have come out of pocket deep for these.
There should be like, there's a golden boot.
There should be a bang for your buck.
I mean, absolutely, I mean, she's been, you know, you know, 1999 on this top.
Right.
And we're never going to forget.
You think that much.
We're never going to forget it.
So I mean, hats off on, on the, on the value shopping of Princess Poppy.
I love it.
I love it.
And she's funny.
She made me laugh in the reunion.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
Robin Fierce looking amazing, giving Matrix giving early 2000s.
I mean, you know, they sometimes say don't rely on that body.
But if this is your body, I mean, baby, you should rely.
I mean, rely.
It's, I mean, it's just phenomenal.
I mean, everything.
And I'll say, just think, people think if you're skinny, it's easy.
You just put anything on.
You still have to make sure the fit is right.
You know, this, this thing's got to hang on all the right curves.
And she, she's got it.
And now I see, you should clock.
So she posted on her story how tightly she wrapped her, those leg straps around her that
they left marks the next day.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Oh, yeah.
No, there's a commitment.
I mean, that's the thing.
Again, with high fashion, you know, most people dress for the weather.
They dress for comfort.
When you're dressing for a look, you understand that your feet are going to hurt for the next
day and a half.
Yeah.
You understand that the clothes are going to leave marks.
So I mean, but that's, but look at what she's serving.
She's so beautiful and soft and lovely and kind.
Okay, we have to take another break and then we're going to finish chirping and burping
these look so silence.
I feel like taking another break.
Selena.
Oh, I'll bring back my break.
Selena as Titties giving to Wong food.
Thanks for everything.
Julie, new Mar.
Yes.
And I love this and also like her personality comes through just in the posing.
Yes.
And it reminds me, I was like, Oh, I've missed you.
I love you.
Selena as Titties.
Come here.
I mean, that is a great guy.
And you want to put your face in the name.
Her package is such a love letter to the Latinx Latinate community that like it makes me
really happy.
It really excites me.
I saw the finale.
Look, you're everyone's going to die when you see your finale look.
It is such a complete love letter that like, yes, some people were just like, it, but it
doesn't look good.
That's what some people's critiques were.
They're like, yes, I get the reference, but I don't think it looks good.
There was some misses.
There were some misses.
I would actually, I would attribute that to probably having the money to get some of
the finishing touches done.
I don't think people realize how much economics and money play into this.
Oh, absolutely.
She has to pick maybe three or four gowns where you can get the tailoring and the fitting
done.
And the rest is like, it's a little more homemade.
It maybe isn't as polished, but no one can tell me.
I mean, she never went out there without a point of view.
She never went out there not knowing her references.
In this, I do awful drag and my ugly awful drag costs hundreds of dollars.
That's just a fact.
You know what I mean?
Even to buy, and that is a lot of money.
So like to then elevate yourself and look like a showgirl and have the gems and the stones
and the wigs, it costs fucking money.
And we forget, I mean, there are times where you've got to do two looks a week.
I mean, like this is, it's a lot to ask.
And I think what you what you see with some queens is they're trying to pick their moments.
And unfortunately, some weeks, you're just trying to be safe.
You know this is your best drag, but you're just trying to get through this week's challenge.
Fully having said that, I think the reference, some people had problems with the makeup,
but I just think the reference is so strong.
I have to give it a chirp.
Yeah, I would chirp this.
People don't like this makeup or just in general her makeup.
We're saying this makeup is flawed, I guess.
And it's probably especially because of the reunion angle.
You know, the reunion angle is like showing her jaw, which she was, you know, shading
to look more like John Leguizamo and Tu Wang Fu.
It's a mess.
It's a mess.
The drag race is toxic.
And let's see, we have Sasha Colby.
I mean, my own critique is it's a little similar to something she's worn and she's worn.
She's worn something so close to this before.
So this is certainly in her style.
Yeah.
I mean, like at this point, like I feel like if you just put out outfits and showed them
on a mannequin, I could tell you what the Sasha Colby look is.
Yeah.
Which is a testament to her that she has it.
I have the weirdest critique of this look.
I don't think she needed the blue contacts.
It's a little distracting.
I kind of agree.
Like I want to see her soul and like when I see the blue contacts, I just see evil Medusa
woman.
And that's fine.
That's her prerogative.
But I agree.
I wasn't like, they're beautiful.
I was like, oh, well, I actually thought later when she was having when she was being
heartfelt and she was talking, it undercut what she was saying.
Yeah.
You're sort of like staring into these weird, I like, Oh, well, you're having a moment.
Okay, got it.
Yeah, you're right.
It changes the moment.
Still a chirp.
Yeah.
Still unbelievably gorgeous.
And sugar and spice.
Here's the thing.
I, with the moment they showed up, I was like, who are these two idiots?
And yet now I love them.
I love them.
And now, and if you're a sugar and spice fan, turn this off right now, they're, they're
let's just their attempts at conversation and reacting and saying words were so like
toddler level.
These, they can't talk.
Well, they're not built.
They're not built for this competition.
No, they are.
They are.
And get ready for this children.
Some of you have to look this word up.
They are a vaudeville act.
Yes.
Okay.
Like they, they work in tandem.
They have their bits.
It's sort of, it's sort of at that vaudeville slapstick level.
Yeah.
They're not, they are not high art.
They are not high comedy.
And I don't, and I respect them on their terms.
Right.
And for what they do, that's great.
Are they ever going to win all stars or any of the competitions?
No.
Not in a million years.
But are they, I mean, I find them amusing.
They're great for the TV show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But my God, every time they tried to say something, I'm sorry, I'm just going to be
really mean.
They couldn't form good sentences.
They weren't, they weren't replying or sometimes they were trying to interject.
And it, again, it was like a child at a dinner table of adults.
Well, they don't.
Trying to say something valuable.
Everything that they can present to you is very much planned out and sketched out.
Yeah.
And so they don't go off script.
Yeah.
They are not the drag queen who's going to come back with a witty one liner on the top
of their heads.
No.
But they can't execute their stick well.
I mean, they're great.
They look great.
They're cute.
And I do think, I think you heard from some of the other queens, it's almost this idea
of like, okay, drag can mean many things.
And they are legitimate wing in the drag community.
Are they, can they compete?
Do they belong on stage in this competition with like Sasha and Anitra?
Absolutely not.
No.
But they are adorable and they did what they had more to them than I thought they did.
They're well cast.
I got to say though.
I mean, like this season was great.
I can't, you know, this season was some people are saying the best season since 12 or 10.
Again, I enjoy almost every season, but some people really.
I think it's one of the greats.
I mean, I really did enjoy it.
I mean, but like you said, mistress start the pot.
I mean, you need, I mean, mistress and Lucy without each other.
I don't know what the season is.
It's just like it is, it is the Sasha Colby meet and greet.
It really is the Sasha Colby meet and greet.
And I'm surprised she was able to go so far with like never dirtying her hands.
Like, and even in this reunion, I'm like, this is a good time to dirty your hands.
Never.
Just I respect everyone.
I see everyone.
It's got a bit of like, you know, sort of like Bianca Del Rio, Bob the Dragon.
We've had seasons where the winner seems very clear from the onset.
Yes.
And it's never, it's never really in doubt, but you know, yeah.
But luckily there were other, there were other elements.
Like if, if, if the surprise of the season isn't who's going to win, then you need a
Lucy and you need a mistress to make it interesting fully, fully, fully.
We needed that.
I would have died without it.
This reunion would have been dead without it.
My note to some of the girls is fight more in general.
I'm here for this Marsha V mistress moment of who was better.
And I think I might agree that Marsha was better at Snatch Game than mistress.
I might agree.
Yes.
Oh, I would agree.
Absolutely.
I mean, mistress, I mean, and I do like that.
I mean, they were, they people sort of spoke up and said that said, you know, wait a minute,
you got beat, but I mean, but yeah, there needed to be more, a little more fighting
wouldn't have hurt.
Yeah.
So this is this sort of, this isn't going to go down as maybe like the best.
I don't think it's going to go down as like a best untucked in any way.
Unfortunately, not that it needs it, but I won't like there won't be those big fight
moments.
Like I remember from some of those reunions, right?
Well, it's interesting.
I wonder, I mean, I wonder now if we just live in an age where the queens won't go there.
Like they just know that like, you know, I don't want to be.
I don't want, I don't want the backlash in social media.
And you know, you know, sometimes it affects your bookings.
If you, if you become a little too harsh, people won't come out to see you.
So everybody's still trying to audition for not only all stars, but the road.
That is a really, really, really good point.
Auditioning for the road.
Yeah.
No, you're right.
People have to be your fans if they're going to come to your show so you can get your booking
fee.
That is a really good point.
How is Mistress able to so clearly do both?
Like that takes, that's a real skill.
Well, because Mistress doesn't deny that she's doing it.
Right.
I think a lot of times people when they're playing the villain try to go, well, I'm not
a villain.
I'm just being honest.
Mistress is like, no, no, this is my ladle.
I'm stirring this pot.
Yeah.
Like watch me, sir.
Would you like a scoop?
I'll give it to you.
So like just by owning it, it makes her a lot more fun and it makes it a lot more palatable.
Yeah.
I'm with you.
I'm with you.
This season has some high moments.
If you had to put a couple in the top moments, where like what moments stick out to you as
season defining moments?
I mean, I was surprised they let it happen because it seemed a little early, but Anitra,
lip syncing against Sasha Kobe.
Yes.
I mean, I levitated off my couch while they were performing.
That was a real Evie Oddly versus fucking Brooklyn Heights moment.
Oh, yeah.
The producers got so hard and I don't know this at all, but like I wonder, I mean, it
feels like this season, even in this reunion, it felt like they're leading us back to that
moment in the finale.
Yeah.
I mean, like just that's the flip-up.
I mean, I don't know who else could, I mean, like maybe Lux, I mean, you know, Anitra,
anything can happen.
Like, you know, you can, you can twist your ankle, you can have, you can be in a headspace
where you don't perform one night.
Right.
So anything can happen, but if everybody delivers what we know they can deliver, it
seems like we're heading towards Anitra and Sasha.
And I don't mind a rematch.
So that would be good.
They love it.
They love it.
And they love it.
And Mistress also had another defining moment.
I mean, Mistress should just, should go and copyright the phrase drag delusion.
Yes.
She's introduced it to the lexicon.
I've started to try to take it into the straight community.
I mean, like we should all just, it explains so much of our world.
It takes so far.
It takes you.
Okay.
So here's my question to you though, as a very successful person.
Do you think delusion is a tool that's helped your career?
I just, like you do have to be like, if you're, if you are a dreamer, you are delusional.
Like, right.
Right.
Right.
That is how this works.
You have to believe that against the odds, you are going to rise up and get to do something
that other people can only hope to do.
Like, right?
Like you're really going to make it.
So that is, that is okay.
I don't mind walking into something with delusion.
The problem that happens here and it's startling is after a competition, when you're looking
back on a performance, that's not, that's not anticipating something.
Now we've actually done it.
The inability to assess your performance is problematic.
Like I, I know, I know I'm a very good writer.
And when I, when I am writing a new episode, I have, I have the intention and all the confidence
that it's going to be great.
But I have written things that when I sat there on stage, I said, well, this ain't working.
And I know it's my fault.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
That is the difference.
You can always have the highest expectations for yourself going in.
You need to be able to be a cold critic of your performance after all is said and done.
And some of these girls cannot.
Yeah.
They thought it was flawless.
I'm like, honey, the audience didn't laugh.
Your wig fell off your head.
Right.
How, how could you, what do you mean you thought you should have won?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It seems to be a valuable tool.
And frankly, like it's, I am a dreamer and I sometimes I do wish, I guess I wish my delusional
voice was louder.
Because like they're both fighting like the, the dreamer and the cynic are constantly
fighting, I think as a creator.
And maybe they're both valuable tools for me.
I think, I think one is forward looking and one is what you use to sort of evaluate.
So going forward, I tell people, you, I mean, if you, if you, if you don't think you can
win, you shouldn't be out on that stage.
Yeah.
But after the show is over, if we're looking back on the performance, you have to be able
to pick apart your own work if you want to get better.
Yeah.
Fully, fully.
Yeah.
But you don't want to be picking up, you don't want to be picking yourself apart as you
are walking out of the wing.
Like that's hard.
You know, that, that will, you know, that you can't do.
You can't do that.
It'll kill you.
I like to say to my critical voice, like sometimes before we're about to do something,
I'll say we can get back to you in like 10 minutes.
Yes.
And I will talk to you.
I'm leaving you here.
Once I'm done with this, I will see you again.
But goodbye for now.
Yeah.
I'm trying to work on being like, thank like, it's so weird.
This is now we're just talking about therapy, but I think it's very pertinent.
Like, um, thanking that part of you that got you here, you know what I mean?
Like, even like being like, thank you.
Let's say like destructive self destructive me.
Thank you for bringing me here.
Thank you for dropping me off at the mono meet and greet.
I don't need you anymore.
You know, like you brought me here.
I believe it.
And now I'm going home.
Like, I don't need you to get home.
I believe in therapy and I'm, I'm, I do it.
My big thing is one of the hardest things to learn as you get older is a lot of the
tools and a lot of the tactics you used to survive and to achieve are now hurting you.
And you have to put them down.
And it's hard.
Is it that fucking hard?
It is because you're like, but what are you talking about?
This is what got me through the jungle.
And you just, you're not, you're not there anymore.
Yeah.
You're not there anymore.
When I was a baby writer, when I was a baby writer, I was very like aggressive and because
I was just fighting to get my ideas heard.
Yeah.
Well, now I'm the show runner.
I don't have to.
Yeah.
I don't have to raise my voice.
That sounds nice.
You know, I've got, but I had to make that change because I think on the climb up, I kept
a lot of that behavior and people were sort of like, I mean, why are you acting?
You could just tell me what you want.
You don't have to push so hard.
And I thought, oh, I guess I don't.
I don't have to push so hard.
They'll just gonna, you know, but you have to learn that that the thing and it was valid
then and it's just not serving you now.
And it's very hard.
I suggest everybody goes see somebody for like an hour a week.
That is really hard.
I'm literally working through that right now.
It's like as a comedian, I got here being the brown queer fat.
I was a fat brown queer loser.
Like that got me here that like helped sharpen my comedy, it helped sharpen like even just
putting worth in my ideas over my body or something like that.
Like it got me really, really, really far.
And now I am actually becoming someone strong and who doesn't, who I'm like my like dreams
are coming true and now I don't know how to let go of the hurt version of myself and
just live in the present winning version of myself.
Well, it's not, it's not easy because I mean that that that armor, that other version,
you spent a lot of time there.
So it's going to be a long goodbye.
And I'm just like, just think of it as putting the hours in.
I mean, I was, I mean, when I was show running, everyone understood that Friday from two to
three, I was unavailable because that was my therapy time.
And I was like, the show can burn during that hour.
Okay guys, we'll figure it out when I get out of this, but you really do need to make
that time for yourself and do that.
It's one of the biggest transitions.
And it's something we're watching a lot of these queens do.
These queens have come from clubs and they've come from settings where they had to be maybe
very aggressive.
They had to champion for themselves and throw elbows.
And it's hard to let that go.
It's hard.
It's really, really hard.
I guess what I'm saying to all of you listening is drive your former self to a bus stop and
leave that child there like a Roxy Andrews.
I don't, I mean, I don't even think you can abandon them, but I would just say go ahead
and honor them.
I mean, I think there really is that idea of like, thank you, you are a bad bitch.
I wouldn't have gotten through childhood, high school, college, whatever without you
by my side.
You have earned your rest.
You can put your sword down.
You can put your sword down.
You're good.
We don't need you to fight the war force in a while.
So you're saying like, like a fucking game of Thrones finale, like, like blame them to
rest.
You are now you give them something to go do, send them to the house of lords, make them
a Duke.
Whatever you need to do mentally, you're not, because you think you're not apologizing
for the way you were, you're not denigrating them.
You're just evolving.
Yeah.
That's good.
And if you want more of that, you got to check the out Bel Air on peacock.
If you want more of that actual beautiful life lesson shit.
I mean, it's mostly in the book.
Go get my government needs to kill me and it'll be.
It's so good.
And this is an audiobook because I'm a dumb bitch, but I love it.
The actor, Jelani Aladdin, who is gorgeous inside and out.
Wonderful.
Does the audio book and like, I mean, as you could imagine, I know every word of that
book and I listen to the audiobook and he had me and my feelings.
There should be no surprises for me.
At this point, I'd read the book a thousand times.
You would think I'd be dead inside to these words.
When Jelani Aladdin performed that, I was, I was crying.
It was very good.
It was very good.
It's a very lovely voice.
It's so sexy.
I haven't seen their image yet, but there's a very lovely, sexy sounding voice.
That image will not disappoint.
Have you gone to the, when you get to the sex scenes?
What?
No, just the light stuff now where I've only done, gone to like the bath house stuff and
like the neighbor who like there seemed to be sexual tension there, but like he, but
they're very plainly say like nothing happens between us.
You got the way this, there's more coming.
There's more coming.
Okay.
Okay.
And Jelani delivers.
So these, these, these queen reads are great.
I love that we're actually seeing more of the reading challenge.
What else happened in this very long reunion wrap up that we need to cover?
Oh my goodness.
Anything stick out to you?
I, I did like that they went through the gates.
So the wig gate is at 40 inches.
Heaven gates.
Heaven gate.
Metal gate.
I mean, some queens, I thought did better at owning what was going on than others.
Yes.
And so that was, that was, that was interesting to me.
Like I mean, I just wish people would say, look, I, I want to win and I want it.
Let's get an interesting thing.
Cause Lex, would I ask her why did she give the role to Lucy?
She, she's like, well, I could see she was hurting and she really wanted it.
And I thought if she bombed, that would be a bigger fall for her.
But that was my second dairy reason.
And I wanted to just go, let's just own that.
Yeah.
Yes, I was, you know, I would have said that, you know, Lucy was running her mouth and
I thought, well, let her have it.
Let her, she thinks she's so badass.
Let her have it.
And then she falls on her face.
Good.
And if I was, then if I was like, I'd also thrown in and you'll notice she didn't win
that challenge.
Yeah.
She had the story roll.
She got everything she wanted and she didn't win.
They put her in the bottom, which is so funny and mean.
She did so much.
It's so mean.
She did like a very good job.
What the, I think they were just trying to drive her crazy.
They really were.
And it was good TV for us because what, we didn't, again, there was no other option
for us.
Sasha wasn't good.
Sasha was just dead set on showing her talent and not fighting.
And mistress and Lucy already hated each other.
So that was great.
Yeah.
It was really, really wild.
Too much talent in this season, I guess is what I'm saying.
But again, and Lux wouldn't have been good at that heaven gate, the heaven, sorry, the
heaven bacon character.
No.
How did you feel about revisiting when they had to say who's going to be going home?
Oh, like revisiting that.
Like just the.
Well, I mean, I can't, first of all, that they replayed Lux's two and a half minute
model.
Oh my God.
I mean, they gave it to, I mean, we were, I was watching it home.
I go, are they going to run this whole thing again?
Yeah, they're again, it's like, show us more of the unseen footage instead of the scene
footage, you know, because I'm guess I saw this without commercials, but I'm guessing
this this whole, this was a whole two hours with commercials.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
It was I saw it with commercials, which is rude.
I think that's right.
I get it.
They want the advertisements, but come on guys.
Come the fuck.
Well, you know what I would have, what I would have paid for.
And this is, and I know they have this footage and they must have this footage.
Give me, if you're going to run Lux's entire monologue again, just show me Lucy's face
the whole time.
Yeah.
I just, I just.
And push in closer as she's building to, and her drag is generic.
That's what, like that's what I want.
I agree that like that the picture in picture of Lucy Liduka was the best bang for our buck.
Seeing her like frozen, like trying not to be bothered expression worked every time.
Well, the thing that hit me, and it's like probably maybe a key to Lucy, is she doesn't
actually just want to win the competition.
She needs validation from the other queens.
She needs, she wants them to like her too.
And I'm like, oh honey, that's very hard to get from your competition.
Yes.
And I get it.
I have certainly been there before, but trying to learn more and more like whoever.
Yeah.
Like it's, and it's been set on the show again.
Impress the people who love you.
The people like, love the people who already love you.
Don't try to win over your haters.
It's just not going to happen.
Well, the thing I can't, I mean, and maybe this is just, it's just different people and
their personalities.
I mean, again, black, gay, you know, pretty obviously gay growing up.
Nobody was, nobody was too shocked.
It was very clear to me at an early age that I was not for everyone.
And that was liberating because I never, I mean, I didn't think I had a chance.
So I never tried to be for everybody.
You know, that's amazing.
So I wasted years trying to Lucy Liduka.
I wasted years trying to get everyone to like me.
Yeah, I just knew that was.
And by the way, I didn't like everybody.
I mean, there were people I didn't, I didn't want you to like me.
I don't like, you know, I would, you know, so I was, yeah, I came up on a different side
of the mountain.
Yeah, I, I, I went the other way.
I went the like, let's, I don't know, I don't know.
I don't want to compare it.
I'm like, like a spongebob.
I guess I'll compare myself to spongebob.
Like I was like, I can be liked.
I'm happy, you know, like I went like the extreme of like trying to be liked, even when
I didn't like people, I wanted everyone to like me.
But yeah, now, now I'm learning and accepting that it's like people, not everyone likes
me.
And that's just fine.
I have one of my best friends is he's, he's, he's a bit of a people pleaser.
Yeah.
And he's all, and I'll ask him, like he'll meet somebody new and he's trying to figure
them out.
And I go, what are you trying to do?
And he's like, I want to make a new friend.
And I tell him over and over again, you have enough friends.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I tell myself that all time.
I go, I go, enough people love me already.
Yeah.
If I, if I walk into a room and it's not for me, and I mean, and I do all the time.
Yeah.
I mean, there's still places.
I mean, you know, not, not everybody's happy with like a black gay guy being the boss.
Mm hmm.
You know, yeah, there are a lot of rooms I walk into.
They do not want to, they, they can't stand me.
And I can't let that get in my head.
Yeah.
Yeah, T.
T.
Like, I think you're, this really well said, and it's like that I, I'm trying to like,
again, I, I, when I rationally think about it, I'm like, yes, I have my husband and I
have my really good close friends.
And like, that's enough.
Yeah.
That's enough for me.
And, but that's interesting that, you know, in, in the workspaces, you're, you're able
to still get, not let that affect you.
I mean, they're, I mean, it's their problem to figure out.
Yeah.
It turns out I am the boss.
Yeah.
And if you don't want to work here, then go make that decision.
Yeah.
But I'm not going to, I mean, I couldn't imagine suddenly trying to placate them so that they
can feel more comfortable.
Like that, that's not, that's, I mean, I fought too hard to get here.
That's not going to happen.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
You are really Sasha Colby in me right now.
Yeah.
You're just like, just like, okay.
Yeah.
You like that, that option is there.
Like, I'm just taking your power is there.
And I, I mean, I want TJ and I once worked on just by a flute, two different drama series
at once.
And when, when one room we were the show runners, like favorite right hand people and in the
other room, they talked to us like we were hacks and we didn't know what we were doing.
Totally.
And that was really interesting because that, like, that would happen in the same day.
And I go, I wasn't a brilliant writer in the morning and an idiot in the afternoon.
Right.
It really just comes down to making sure I'm in the room that appreciates my talents.
And sometimes you're not.
Yeah.
And you just got to figure a way out of it.
Damn.
So good.
So true.
So I guess there's not much I want to say left.
I do want to talk about the golden boot.
Yeah.
Selena.
Selena is given the golden boot.
And I don't think she deserved it.
Like, I, yeah, I disagree with that call.
Yeah.
Like, especially for that look, which I guess was weird, but I thought it was kind of interesting
and fun drag.
Like, cause, okay, if we're giving a boot that's just a boot, I think it should have
been Princess Poppy when she wore that like extremely basic blue space age look.
If you even remember that, it was like a blue space bikini.
Oh, yeah.
There was no, there was no reference, no point of view.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It should have been that.
But I guess Selena was the more rich story driven golden boot to give.
I don't, I was really thrown by it.
I mean, I guess she's probably the most, she's the highest ranked person you could
dump.
You could tag that to.
There are like three or four things Jack's wore that made no sense to me.
Totally.
And I would have absolutely given the golden boot.
Fully.
Jack deserved it a couple times.
I was, I mean, literally, I mean, Jack's came out and it became, I mean, it almost became
like what the fuck is she wearing?
Like I can't wait to see.
Yeah.
I mean, it's almost like she was in a dark room with like lost luggage and she just had
to like zip the bags and dress herself in the dark and then go to the main stage.
Like literally if the show said and the golden boot goes to every fucking thing Jack's
wore like I know that's two mean, but like I would have been like, yeah, like, yes.
I couldn't, I really, I couldn't, it struck me as odd that they went to for Selena for
that.
I think what they were saying was this look was highly memorable and controversial.
And to me, that's drag.
So I guess that they were like, instead of picking a look that was bad and you forgot,
let's pick a look that actually like had an impact.
Yeah.
No, I, I like Selena.
Maybe I'm being, you know what?
I'll be honest.
I'm being protective.
I just, so it was like, I didn't feel she, if I looked at her entire time on this season,
I wouldn't remember her as the worst dressed on the runway.
That's not how I remember her.
Special points of Selena season.
No, I'm sorry, this episode in particular, she won this episode for me when someone says
something about like, oh, you have like a fake accent, like your personality's fake
and your accent's fake.
And there is just like a pregnant two second quiet pause.
And then she just says, okay, white girl.
Yeah.
And to me, I was like winning, winning the episode.
I mean, I was, again, like that's that thing of something popped up.
And I was like, ooh, one, I can't believe, I think, was it Irene?
I can't believe that got sad.
I think it was Irene.
I wouldn't have, if I were, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have left it in the episode.
It's not a good and bonnet because yeah, white person, like I don't think your accent's
authentic.
Oh, honey.
Good.
I mean, like, like go sit down.
It's a microaggression into a macroaggression.
It's, it's, it's.
It's wild.
But there's not yet a macro, not yet a microaggression, not yet a macroaggression.
No, it's, it's, it's really bad.
And I was, that was a good.
But this show is built on that shit.
Like, frankly, like, frankly, the show has a history of like really strange microaggressions,
like a not black queen telling a black queen, she's ashy.
You know what I mean?
We don't, we don't talk enough about the fact that what's also happening on drag race
is people coming from different parts of this country and they've got very different
spaces, very different relationships to race and, and to what they know, what they believe
is okay and not okay.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, and so though that's also a clash here that we don't really talk about, but it's
certainly at play.
Yeah.
It's very real.
It, it fully reflects the conversation being had and it continues to evolve of like, oh,
we don't joke about that anymore.
Oh, like we're even getting better about, let's say being more gentle with the binary,
like obviously drag was built on like some shit talking about like, let's say like how
you represent a gender binary.
You know what I mean?
Like, it even feels weirder now when someone's like, that's clearly a man.
You know what I mean?
Like that.
Yeah.
Like it's not the same of like, yeah, you can say that.
It's a little more like, ew, that feels like a little bit gender shaming.
You know, I mean, it's gender shaming and I'm like, get a fresher joke.
Yeah.
I mean, we've heard that we're beyond it.
Let's, let's go.
Yeah.
Fully.
Fully.
I mean, I don't know if I have much more.
It's just, I mean, I could talk to you forever, but I, it's already.
No, no, no, we, are we, are we going to make this episode as long as the whole reunion
was, right?
We're going to go to.
We're going to go to Steve.
It really is.
This is a lot of kids.
Buckle up, bitches.
I just want to say I was touched by Lucy, uh, uh, you know, I mean, with it, with everything
being said, please do support the ACLU drag, ACLU drag defense fund.
I was very touched by Lucy having a genuinely emotional moment feeling about her state
representing and caring about her.
I thought that was a wonderful moment for everyone and Lucy.
Um, yeah, let's go fucking fight this bullshit that seems to be happening all over the
place.
We're going to win.
We're going to win.
We're going to win.
Remind us, Rashid, where I guess before we go, I just want to say really quickly, who
is your, I think I know your answer, but who do you want to win this season?
I mean, not even, it's not a matter of one.
I think it's going to be Sasha Kobe.
I would love it if a nature one and nature is my favorite.
I don't see that happening.
I think it's, I think it's Sasha for the way.
It's a hard, it's a hard competition for all the other girls.
And I honestly wonder if they're relieved.
I would be like, if they're, you know what I mean?
If there's that clear of a winner, it's almost like, let me relax now.
Yeah, just do your thing.
Exactly.
I'm going to do me because there is this bitch, this icon, this Obi-Wan Kenobi of drag is unbeatable.
She's going to win.
And you know, and the other girls, you know, there's always all stars.
There's always all stars.
And again, and that's a perfect thing too.
Sasha has no story on all stars.
No need to put on all stars.
Anyone else?
Absolutely.
But I'm on all stars.
Yeah.
Where can we support you, Rashid?
Where can we buy the book, an audiobook?
Oh my God.
You can get my government means to kill me.
Anywhere books are sold.
Amazon.
I would also say there's Shop Queer.
I'm a big fan of Shop Queer.
You can order the book through there.
They've got signed copies.
Oh, yes.
And run by, by, by, by queer independent book owners.
So I would, I would say go there first.
But hopefully it's anywhere you go and buy books, the audiobook available and, you know,
Spotify, Apple, all the rest.
You can follow me.
I'll put that link below.
That link will be below in the podcast description.
The queer books link to my government means to kill me.
Oh, that would be great.
I love that.
Yes.
And where else?
You can find me on Twitter and TikTok at RashidNuson.
And you can find me on Instagram at Rashid.nuson.author.
Yes.
That link will also be below.
I mean, it's, yeah, it's going to be a good ass time.
Rishid.
I can't thank you enough.
I mean, this is, you don't understand and listening for so many years.
I can't believe my husband, like, inception this.
He was like, you should get on the podcast.
I was like, they're never going to have me.
So I'm just glad.
Oh my God.
The second you messaged me, I was like, come to the podcast.
I was like, I didn't, I had no clue.
Like, I had no clue.
Oh, this is wonderful.
This is like, this is, you are my, you are my Terry Gross.
This is my fresh air moment.
Shut the fuck up.
I'm so happy to be here.
I genuinely adore you.
I can't believe how much country and heart this hour of podcasting had.
I mean, that's my brand.
I mean, you're a part.
Well, if you like, Jagger, the podcast, follow us at Dragger Podcast on Instagram and give
us five stars on Apple Podcasts wherever you listen.
It helps keep the goddamn lights on.
Until next time, my dears.
Let the music play.
Wasn't hit dumb original.
♪♪♪♪