What It Takes to Win - On and Off the Field | 2x World Cup Winner, Julie Foudy

success comes when you just are a great teammate and work your ass off and people want to be around you and they know that you got their back like you're in the foxhole with them that's the greatest place they could be because you're going to take care of them. Okay welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm your host Dr. Michael Jervé by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. I'm honored to welcome back to the podcast a living legend of women's soccer. This week's conversation is with none other than the Julie Fowdy. Julie is a favorite here at Finding Mastery and her impact here and beyond stems from so much more than her accolades and they are legit. She is a two-time FIFA World Cup champion. She's a three-time Olympic medalist, two gold and one silver. She's a member of the national soccer hall of fame and she's also an energizing voice in the world of women's sports on camera as an espian analyst and commentator and off as former president of the women's sports foundation. Her voice extends to the page screen and airwaves as well. Julie has her own podcast laughter permitted with Julie Fowdy. She's authored two incredible books. She's produced several documentaries and these days she can also be seen in the newly released HBO documentary series Angel City and that's about the Los Angeles-based women's soccer team Angel City Football Club of which she is a proud owner and investor and if you don't know this organization has an incredible story that you will hear about in the conversation. So Julie and I cover a lot of important ground here. We talk about the cultural shift that's happening in women's sport, how to be a great parent for young athletes, the importance of bringing joy to everything we do and why we is always greater than me. She is a winner. She is a champion of other women winning two and it's clear that her commitment to women in sports will reverberate for generations to come. So with that I am thrilled to dive into this week's conversation with the one the only Julie Fowdy. Julie it is great to see you and it's hard to believe it's been four years since we last what? Yes. Four years. You're like seven thousand episodes in. Come on Michael. And your plus one hundred like it's awesome. What are you at? How many? I think we're over five hundred at this point. Somewhere somewhere in that range. Oh my gosh. Do you get like a watch, a gold watch at five hundred? You get a medal. You should be you should be given an Olympic gold medal. I'm getting in line. I formed a line but I'm not sure who's actually giving them out. We're just standing and waiting. I was waiting. So there's been so obviously there's so much that's happened in the world around us. And one of the things that's been really fun is to see your involvement with Angel City FC. No, I should have wore my Angel City hat instead of my B here now hat. Yes. That's a good hat. The B here now is a good hat. Yeah, it is a good hat. Oh, Angel City has been so fun. Yeah, that's right. So four years ago it was just like a twinkle in the eye. Um, by Natalie Portman, who is amazing as we all know. I mean, she is the war. So of course, she's amazing. But yeah, that's been really fun. I'm part of that ownership group. There's actually 14 of us players on that ownership group. Michael. That is amazing. Yeah. So it literally full disclosure is a big party. Every home game. It's like, Reunion. Let's go. Who's in? We've all WhatsApp group. It's so fun. How did it come? How did it come about? So she had an idea and was the idea like what was the origin story of ownership? So the origin story and there is that new HBO Max documentary out on it, which is fantastic three-part series that Natalie did with her production group. But the origin story is that she was listening to Abby Wombok, former stud women soccer player, give a speech about her retirement. And Abby was talking at a time's up, um, meet two times up kind of meeting that Natalie was a part of. And Abby was talking about how when she retired and she's accepting this award from at the SB's from ESPN and she's alongside paid manning and um, Kobe Bryant. And she's like, you know, the three of us are getting honored for our careers. And it just hit me. Abby's telling the story. It's just hit me that, oh my gosh, the three of us are being honored in the same way, but we have very different realities. Like I'm worried about what my next job is so I can have health insurance. And they're thinking about the millions of dollars they have invested and where they're going to spend it. And so Natalie was struck by that and that reality and was like, why is that one? And two, why don't we have a professional women's soccer team here in LA? And why can't we start one? And so Cara Nortman inter Cara Nortman, another founding investor and um, and founder of Angel City alongside Natalie, she sat on the board of the M2 movement of the times up movement with Natalie and is an awesome venture capitalist, amazing woman. And Natalie turned to Cara and said, come on, let's figure this out. And so the two of them found Julie Irman, the third founder, uh, who's our president now. And who also comes kind of from the tech startup world, venture capital world is super smart athlete, not a soccer player, basketball player, they played basketball together and Cara. And the three of them went about starting us and thank God they did because one, um, it's just so much fun, of course, which is my, uh, is my principal to living in life in my 50s now, just find the fun. And two, it's, um, it's really changing the way people think about women's sports. It really is. Like it's been a roadmap for a lot of people and they're so willing to share that roadmap. And that's the thing that I love as well is it's not just, you know, hey, this is a really good thing we have to have women's sports here. It's like, this is a profitable business. That's profit and purpose and passion and all these peas we care about. That is perfect. All the peas that we care about, they're imperfect. Yes. And not, not perfect, but it's both too. It's, yeah, like I said that because it sounded perfect. And, you know, the idea that, um, you can have all three of those is what modern business, I think, feels like, you know, and we, yeah, we've got to put the people, um, as one of those peas in there, like right at the central whole thing, the experience of the people. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing that, that makes it so cool. Honestly, is there all about the people? They're all about community. I mean, LA is a hard market. As we know, there's so many sports teams, so much, um, vying for that entertainment dollar. And so to create noise in LA from the get go, I mean, Michael, they raised 35 million in sponsorship revenue and their first year before they'd even played a game. I mean, they just crushed it. It helps. Obviously, when you have Natalie who's got all her A-list celebrities and you've got athletes and you've got Billie Jean King and Lindsey Vaughn and, uh, Candace Parker and you go down the list of all these people who want in these amazing women. Um, so it's, it's just been so fun. Was it a tough decision for you not to get involved, but like, um, hell no. They're like, hey, um, yeah. Hey, what do you think? Uh, we've got Natalie Portman, Jennifer Gardner. Um, they go down the list of all the people, you know, and I'm like, wait, what do you mean? What do I think? I don't even need to see any paperwork. Yes. Let's go. Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine. Yeah. People together. That's the energy behind it. This then it becomes such an easy sell. And then Mia and I, for example, Mia Hammond, I, um, took it to all the players. We're like, okay, let's find every national team player that's played in L.A. or was born and raised in L.A. or has some tied L.A. So within literally two hours, every single player was like, in. Yes. Hell yes. All caps. Yes. Yeah. And which is so different than like most ownership, um, courting, if you will, is that there's some sort of convincing that needs to take place for somebody to buy. Like, you know, there's like, okay, well, it sounds like a good idea, but how does it make money? Or, you know, I'm not sure if it's, you know, if, but not this was not the case. This is why, like, the idea born out of Abby's and Abby spoke about the insight that you shared on our podcast earlier. And when she said it, you know, when those, when people share an idea and you go, that's different. Like, only you could kind of figure that out. And when Abby said that, like, listen, Kobe's retirement and such and such retirement, it's going to look very different than mine. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's when you know you've earned that insight because you've lived a certain way. And yeah. So, you know, the other cool thing is you have someone like Natalie who's done so much, right? Not, and not even in this sports space, but just done so much in life as we know, for her to go, which is what amazes me, because there's a lot of people in life who go, well, why not? Why don't we have a women's team? Why don't we, why don't we start a women's team? And then that's it. It stops there, right? They pose the question. But then they go, boof, that's a lot of work. I don't know if I don't know if I want to follow up with that. So they pose the question and then they don't roll the sleeves up, roll their sleeves up with Natalie. The thing I've, I've loved about it, her and watching her and Cara and Julie Irman is that Natalie, pose the question and then did the work to say, okay, we're going to get it done. And that, that's something itself. And that's what the actual three part series that first, the first part of the documentary was about, which is great to see. I just, you know, how they got it done. I'm going to pause the conversation here for just a few minutes to talk about our sponsors. Finding mastery is brought to you by AvPoint. 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House of Academias sources the highest quality macadamia nuts from over 90 farms in South Africa and delivers them right to your doorstep, in formats and prices that I think you're going to love. They have a very special offer for you because you're part of the Finding Mastery community, so you can experience the power of Academias for yourself. Just head to houseofmacadamias.com slash finding mastery and use the code Finding Mastery to check out for 20% off your order, and for limited time, they're gifting you a free box of their best-selling Namibian sea salted macadamia nuts with your purchase. Again, that's houseofmacadamias.com slash finding mastery and use the code Finding Mastery to check out for this exclusive offer. Let's jump right back into the conversation. You've been an advocate for women's sport for sure, but you've been an advocate in soccer for a long time. If we can drill right into your hope or your dream or your vision for ACFC or soccer in general and women's sports, can you drill into maybe just those first three ACFC soccer and then women's sport? Yeah. ACFC is already realizing it. Our dream has always been to be something that gives and shows the world what's possible in women's sports. I think we thought we did that in 1999 with winning the World Cup, and then we quickly realized that, yeah, God, changing culture takes longer than just one big event to convince people. To your point earlier, Michael, it's like you don't have to expend the energy on explaining to people within this circle what it is and why you should be an owner. That's really refreshing because I honestly have spent my whole career expending energy on this is why you should bet on women's sports. This is why you should invest in women's sports. This is why you should invest in women. Now you get to a point in life, thankfully, where you're like, oh, you know, basically Angel City is like, yeah, no shit. Move on. What's the next conversation? What do we want to then scratch the surface of? Like what what are the layers we can peel back on the potential that's there? We already get there's potential. What do we want to get out of this? And so when you start from that base and say, oh, we're just now climbing. We're not actually having to explain and build and all of those things. Super refreshing. And that's what Angel City is doing. And I think it gives a lot of people a roadmap on how to do that. In terms of women's soccer, I mean, I think it's really interesting time is, you know, like four years ago, I would have said to you, yeah, women's soccer is doing well, but there was a but now it's women's soccer globally is exploding. And you see it in the numbers, you're seeing it in the sponsorships, you're seeing in attendance. I mean, it's it's it's fantastic to see. It's again, taken a long time when we thought, you know, back in the 90s, people should have come to this conclusion earlier, but I am happy to see that it's getting there. And especially in Europe, I mean, it's just going bonkers. It's going crazy. And so what you're seeing is you're seeing an energy and enthusiasm at games. So for example, last summer for ESPN, I call the women's European final. So they have the euros for the men, which are the European championships, but they have the best men's team in Europe. Play each other. Well, they do the same for the women. We had really never covered it at ESPN. And that irked the hell out of me. And so a few years back, I said, this is our last women's euros we're going to do. We should be doing this. We should be blowing it out of the water and covering it and doing pregame shows and half times. And you could get an amazing set of women to come to Bristol and do it. And we could do it from Bristol and then we could go cover it. Anyways, we finally did that. And we crushed it. I mean, the numbers were huge. Of course, England wins it in England at Wimbley, which is the iconic football, they will say soccer. We call it stadium. Their national stadium sold out. I mean, the place was rocking. It very much felt like a 99 moment to me in terms of a cultural shift in terms of acceptance. Wimbley was sold out. No, yeah, Wimbley sold out 80,000 act. Yeah. And they're doing that now. Every time the England team plays at Wimbley, they're selling out 80,000 quickly, right? The US went to play them right after the euros in October. It sold out 24 hours. So this is the women too, right? Mind you? So there, you know, and I'm married to a Brit when I first, I think I, I don't know if I told this on the last podcast, but when I first met my in laws, they looked at me. This is back of the 90s. And they were like, you play soccer? You play football? What? Women play football? I was like, yes. Wow. Well, yes. Like what? Like it wasn't, you know, clearly, there was not a women, a lot of women playing football back in the 90s in England. So it has been a huge cultural shift. So in terms of where women's sports are, I think soccer is an indicator of that. And you're seeing that in a lot of different countries where I mean, we've had the benefit of Title IX for many years. And that's why we have so many girls playing, but you're seeing these other countries wake up to the potential behind women's sports. And that makes me happy because now girls will be playing and jumping and throwing and kicking and all these great things that, as we know, produce great humans. You know, it didn't hit me early in knowing you that you're a visionary. And yeah, like you see the future. And like, at least you've got a vision of how you would like to see it. And then you tirelessly work towards it. You to be in the early 90s, let's call it before your 99, 1999 USA women's World Cup win, which you are obviously a key member of. Like, so you were early. And did you know, did you know that at the time that you had this ability to kind of see a future? I mean, did I know that women's sports should be more supported? Yes. No, no, no. Did you know that you had the ability to see the future in a way that was compelling to you? And then in a way that was different than other people? I don't know if I would have thought of it that way. Okay. I mean, the thing that I thought of it as, and I don't know if I would have labeled it as is visionary. But I mean, back then we didn't have any data, right? It was mostly anecdotal. So, and that's because no one was collecting it. And it didn't have the attention it deserved. But with women's sports in general, I just remember thinking and saying out loud often as part of our negotiations with US soccer federation is, I don't care if you love or hate women's sports women's soccer. The point is, I would say to the president, the point is you are missing out on all this potential, that untapped potential. Like, there's money on the table. There's, there is so much growth that could happen if you just water that garden just a little bit, like give us some water. Just fertilize it a little bit and you're going to bloom. I'm telling you. And they'd be like, yeah, no, it's not going to happen. And it wasn't until we got some fellow visionaries that were running US soccer, Sunil Galati, Alan Rothenberg, who were great businessmen and visionaries. Like, if I could tap into that, I knew, like, okay, maybe they don't wake up thinking about when the soccer, but they get that they're missing out on what the future could look like. And then, I mean, that's when we actually started to swing that pendulum a little bit in terms of support and funding. And they started watering the garden a little bit more. Watering the garden. I want to come back to finding the fun because it feels like, you know, watering the garden is a very Buddhist way of thinking about cultivating your mind. And so whatever you attend to, you water. So if you attend to a future that is overwhelming, you're you're watering anxiety. If you tend to the present moment, like you get the idea here, we're either watering weeds or, you know, beautiful harvesting beautiful flowers. So when you talk about finding the fun or find the fun, where did that come from for you? And how does it show up on a regular basis for you? That's a good question. I don't know where I have always had a playful joyful. Yeah, you have someone say annoyingly so. Like puppy-ish side to me, Peter Pan, hopefully minus the narcissism side to me. And I mean, I think my parents every day because I say, God, I, you know, to your point, like there are people for no fault of their own, but their mind goes to, you know, to the baron or to the weeds or to, you know, the anxiety side of things. And, and so I don't know, I've always had this idea of I just, I want to combine play and work. I call it plurking. Wait, what do you call it? Plurking. Play and working is plurking. I mean, every trip I can make, I mean, I combine it. And I don't know, you know, my, I think I was the fourth kid, you know, and so there's probably something in that. If I were really to break it down, like, I think my parents were basically like, yeah, you're good. Do your thing. They didn't, there was not much oversight. So, um, but yeah, I don't know, I've, I've always sought joy for sure. Like joy has been a huge part of everything I do. You, you snuck something in there. And I don't know if it's, if it's bigger than, than it needs to be. But you said, like, I've always had this playful, fun way about myself. Even when it was annoying to others or, like, you slid something in there, like, you've had pushback about it. And my experience is that many people, their buoyancy, whatever their buoyancy is, when it's not, like, maybe they're, their way that they go through life is more introverted. And then you've got some early figures in their life. They're like, listen, you need to talk more. You need to be out there. You need to be, you need to, you need to, you need to, whatever it is. And I can imagine that there was lots of heavy blankets trying to cover that buoyant, fun, playful nature that you have. And so how did, yeah, how did you work through that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Um, oh, yeah, I have people who'd say you need to, you know, uh, you need to, what was the, uh, what was the word they'd use? You need to reign it in. I was like, reign what in F off? I'm not raining anything in. Um, I, I mean, I, I, I, I joke, I have joke about it being annoying because it's, you know, we once bought Abby Wombok who was equally, um, vivacious in life and talkative. We once bought her a t-shirt when she got on the team that said, help me. I'm talking and I can't shut up because, because, you know, that, there gets a point where it's like, oh my god, shut up. Like, you know, I don't want to be that, like, and, and it's not, um, my joy isn't like the, oh, everything has to be happy, perfect, fun all the time type of joy. Like, I'm very real about it. You know, I, I never want to be like, life is perfect. Everything is great. You know, those people, how are you? Oh my gosh, I am so fantastic. And you're not, right? No. I think it can probably get a little bit annoying because I run at a really, um, high speed. I mean, I have a really good energy base. I can do a lot of things. I like to move and, and, uh, and cruise really. I don't, I don't sit often. So, um, that could probably be a little bit annoying. But, but you had a fire. Like, when somebody was like, reel it in or like, like, relax or whatever they would say, you, you had a fight about you. There's like, I'm not really anything in. I'm going to be as big and spirited as I can in life. Is that, is that fair? Yeah. Yeah. And you didn't, you didn't like get that from your parents. Like, they created, it sounds like they created the environment where they're like, okay, fourth kid, she's going to do her thing. And that's cool. Yeah. Like, look at her go. Oh, that's awesome. Whatever it is. But they weren't like challenging or pushing. Yeah. No, no challenging, no pushing. I mean, like, and, and I, and maybe that allowed me to be me, um, because I didn't have any expectations set on like, you need to go to this school or you need to do this sport or you need to play at this level. Like, nothing. I mean, that's the difference in today's youth sports, you know, landscape. And I mean, so I think that freedom probably, um, helped me tremendously. But yeah, I never, I mean, to this day, I think it's such a gift. I don't, I mean, there was a period in my TV where I television career where I cared about what people thought, you know, probably in my 30s, 30s. And then I got to my 40s and I was like, yeah, I don't really care anymore. Obviously, you want people to respect you, of course. But, um, there is a freedom to being you authentically you and doing you, um, that I, um, I've, I've really been fortunate to, to find and, um, and I, I mean, I hope it doesn't bring complacency. That's the only thing. I think sometimes you can get complacent with that and overconfident. There's almost a hubris to that. And so I'm really conscious of that too of curiosity and learning and growth mindset and all those things we talk about often. But there's also a soulfulness to that that is soothing and healthy. Okay. 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Sundays4dogs.com forward slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery to receive 35% off your first order. And now back to the conversation. Yeah, I don't remember this dimension in our last conversation. That's solved. I'm not saying it wasn't there but it feels different the way that you're talking about that. I'm going to use the word again the the buoyancy that is natural to you. And did something in the last four years or like earlier? Where did that soulfulness, where did you notice that soulfulness begin to be part of the contour of your life? I think sports. I think you know which is why I've always been such an advocate for girls playing. I mean there's such a freedom to it and enjoy to it. I mean your part, I've always been a part of a team. So regardless of the sport you have this built-in community, you have this built-in sisterhood, you have a bond, a family. I mean that in itself, I mean and all my different teams, not just you know national teams of course but you know my college team, I'm super tight with still. I mean my Socrates that I played Go Green Machine from you know when I was a child I still have some of those as friends, those those teammates. So I mean that's the web that kind of weaves everything together which is why I think I've been such an advocate for girls playing, whatever it is or moving or sweating because there is freedom to that and it shapes as we know and Michael you've lived, shapes everything we do, right? That's the beauty that doesn't get talked about enough. I mean we get really entrenched in the X's and O's and the wins and losses and yet the real gift is that you are learning something much more deeper and much deeper and more meaningful than just how to kick a ball or shoot a basket or you know all those things that matter of course but that's the gift. The way that I think about the gift there is helping sport is a great environment and so is mentorship as an asset to helping people understand their experience with experience and like having up there's a thousand different ways that you could see losing and winning and like sometimes you can figure it out like what's the most authentic healthiest response you could have and sometimes we need some mentorship there. And like you being a mentor now for let's say the next generation what is your hope for 12-year-old girl coming up right now? My hope is that she still finds that joy. I honestly am super worried about youth sports having a 14 and 16-year-old in that heart of it because we have really managed to suck the joy out of it and so my hope is that she finds that freedom, she finds that joy, she finds that confidence. I would say that's probably the biggest driver of my confidence is that I was super competitive and I could let it out on the field and there was no one telling me that's not okay to be competitive and speak up and speak out and stand up and stand out and nowadays I feel there's just so much pressure in youth sports and playing in college and so I do think as parents, as coaches, as teachers like as much as we can to really put that joy back in it is vital. You know it's funny I was just having this conversation with my 16-year-old in the car on the way home from a game this past week and I've started doing these thought of the days with her. I used to go lesson number 7,543 coming at you and she'll be like mom another lesson so I'm like okay I'm just gonna give you one thought of the day so my thought of the day this weekend was that I really attribute my success right with the national team and and other things other areas in the fact I was telling her I said you know what hit me is that it's never been about what I need to get out of something or what I want personally or the awards I want right I was doing a podcast with Sue Bird and yeah Sue's a legend right as you know and I think you've had her on of course Michael and if not you should but she was saying you know and she's won every level she's won national titles at UConn she's won WNBA titles she's got four Olympic gold medals and I'm basketball and I can't remember my question but the the just of it was you know how have you been so personally successful successful and her answer was so great was that I don't think about it in terms of like oh I'm gonna strive for this scoring award or this you know assist award she all I think about is I want to win and make my team better I just want to win I'm competitive I want to win I want to make my team better and I think today's youth because of you know what what world we're living in with social media and everything is identified as how many followers how many likes your brand what are you doing and and there's some value to that of course but also is that everything becomes so internalized what am I getting out of it how am I doing what schools are looking at me how many goals am I scoring that I wanted easy to think my daughter about like it's not that like success comes when you just are a great teammate and work your ass off and people want to be around you and they know that you got their back like you're in the fox hole with them that's the greatest place they could be because you're going to take care of them and I and so I was having that conversation because I do think lost in this world of you've got to stand out and really make a brand for yourself is the idea that you also just need to be a great teammate and then good things happen to you in life and so that was my my thought of this last week and that's the thing I want young people to think about as well because of all those other pressures that really are performative and internalize the performative side of things instead of real the real side of things okay so what does it mean to be a great teammate well I'll give you some examples of great teammates me a ham right arguably one of the greatest soccer players to ever play the game mea as we all know in the women's soccer world but maybe people outside of women's soccer don't know this superstar legend goal scorer won all these accolades but the only thing mea cared about was that she was a great teammate meaning that she was liked that she she honored you as a fellow player she brought you along like it was she never wanted the spotlight and yet you know she had to carry this you know this burden of being the star in the player even though she was uncomfortable in that spotlight and yet she did such a great job of in her own kind of cerebral quieter way because she was shy of being a fabulous leader she taught me a ton about leadership because I always thought you know you had to be the one on the top of the mountain shouting down the you know the one wearing the arm band the CEO the president the person in a position of power like no you you can lead in so many great different ways and her leadership style was very personal and private and quieter than mine of course I was loudy foudy so it was such a great reflection on like wow and so I had that as an example Carla Overbeck another teammate our captain I was her co-captain for many years just took care of people like looked after people made sure that everyone was okay listened empathetic so it's this and at the highest level which is always so interesting right because it's this battle of attrition to stay on the team and be individually competitive but when you can find that balance of also then understanding the we is greater than the me it's it's this beautiful mix that I think has probably been the most valuable lesson I've learned and being a good teammate I mean it matters it matters and at ESPN it matters with who you work with right it matters in relationship so I think it's it's paramount to everything I do in life is you surround yourself with people you want to be teammates with and how are you making sure you're a good teammate is something I ask my kids a lot so that what I hear you talk about is like care like to care about the other person's experience and that can be listening it can be a lot care can come in a lot of different forms and so that would be like the origin I remember when I was doing some early work at one of the multinational like large global companies and we're talking about being great teammates for each other they kind of looked around the room like yeah that's that's a new thought this was probably like 15 years ago that's a new thought and then someone kind of like looks up and says well like how do you do it and I said well and I'm going to echo what you said like I don't know it's like you have to really care you know you you want to be great for them because like you care about them and there was like a pause pause how do you do that oh god that's right we're going to now teach care and so it seems like foreign I think but you you bring up the feels foreign to me like how to teach care and I didn't really I didn't know how to answer it I just was puzzled so if somebody were to answer or ask you that question like what how do you care what how would you respond to that yeah you're interested in someone you ask questions you're curious you you know you celebrate them and again it goes back to the suburb you know response of it was never about me and I'm and it's nothing to take away I was incredibly competitive so in a sense it was about me because I wanted to win I wanted to to perform I wanted to play so we're not losing that side of things but I also was the first one when a player did well or teammate did well like yes let's go celebrate that and so I think that's care is it's just showing that you value them in a way that you know sometimes people forget to say it and do it and it doesn't take long and it's little things we talk about it all the time of taking five seconds to tell someone thanks for making me better today you know for pushing me for and and it's you know it's what I talked to with my 14 year old boy too because I think boys sometimes think they've got to be all you know you know hey I'm the man I'm him that's what he always says what how can you do that because I'm him mom I'm like what does that mean I'm him God I am him I am him I am him I'm like who is him he's funny my 14 year old but yeah I think just stopping and taking a second to reflect on others rather than yourself so there's a the tension point in sport and a business which is I'm trying to make I'm trying to be the starter I'm trying to get my minutes I'm trying to make sure that I'm closing enough business like there's a lot of that stuff in there and so that is the tension point like when I was at the Seahawks and there was like 12 athletes trying out for six spots and they're we're carrying let's say nine of those athletes for those six spots so there's a rotation that can happen at any game any given Sunday and one of the things that was like really hard to navigate for folks is that they're doing everything they can to get their reps to be there very best and at the same time they need to be part of a team and so it sounds simple to talk about it in the sterile environment you and I are in right now but it's really hard when there's big emotions you know your life dream is there you see another person like doing a little bit better or doing the drill better than you are and if you could just figure it out like maybe you'd have a chance at the starting job it's like the margins are pretty thin and then the same time of root for that person to cheer for them to nod your head to smile to stay afterwards like nice job and to really care about their that person's experience it is harder than it sounds yeah I don't know it is you were always really good though did you did you did you have that challenge of feeling like on the outside looking in or because yeah that's not that's not how I knew you in pro sport yeah um of course I mean I think I realized I mean I got on the national team at a really young age as well so I had all those insecurities as a teenager playing with women and going what the hell am I doing here and how is this possible so I had to fight through those insecurities as well of you know feeling like I belonged but what I think I quickly realized is the more I worried about belonging the worse I did so if I continued to just worry and think oh shit what am I doing here I don't belong here and have you know those downward spiral conversations of you know you stink you're terrible you can't kick a ball you don't have the tactical awareness all those things when I started focusing on my deficiencies that I perceived then I knew my stay with the national team would not be very long and what I realized is that I could still be competitive and fight my my tail off but when I was focused on helping others I actually took some of the pressure off me that kind of released that burden of me feeling like this imposter syndrome if I focused on just being a good teammate and maybe that helps someone in a situation that's similar but I do think that the two aren't mutually exclusive you don't you know it's not I'm really competitive and intense but I'm not a great teammate you can be both and I think that's actually the secret sauce to a really successful group coach Anson Dorrance and who is Mia Ham's coach I don't I don't know him but I had the I was listening to him I was still in graduate school and he was talking about um his experience coaching Mia Ham and he said that one of the things that she did that changed the game is that she was going to score and she he didn't say it exactly like this but my takeaway 20 some years later is that she she cared less about the the response of her teammates which early on was like who do you think you are dribbling the ball down and putting the ball on that like who do you think you are like this is a team sport and maybe I've got this shaped you know differently than it actually happened but I hear I heard that story and I thought oh okay so Mia cared more about getting better or the objective which is to to score and then I hear you say no I I needed to figure out that that balance between what are they going to think of me and pursuing my very best how did you how did you do that how did you navigate what your teammates were thinking about you and you might say no I really didn't think about them much like I cared about them but I didn't let that what they thought of me given away can you thin slice or work in in those spaces um let's see did I think about how much yeah yeah I did I definitely did because I was so young um and it's the US team right it's like holy cow what am I doing here and so I mean I was 16 when I first got on that team Mia was 15 actually Christine Lily was another one who was 16 there we were the three youngsters brought in but I do feel like that to my you know lesson of the day thought of the day with Izzy that my um safe place was I was so competitive I just wanted to win and so if I could help the team win again it gave me a focus outside of myself and so I just focused on I just want to bring in win and when we're winning good things are happening and I don't know if that's me good things are happening to me or what but I I just want to be part of the equation that's winning and um and I and I do think it kind of puts blinders on in a good way from the destructive thoughts of I just want to do whatever I can to help this team be successful um and that's I think a large part of my success in a common denominator you hear always on that national team like when I look at those teams that one one so competitive but also that like they care deeply about the collective success and that is not something we got right every year because we didn't win every year but I do think when we got that right we won for sure and now one final word from our sponsors finding mastery is brought to you by AG1 if you've been listening to the podcast here for a while you know how much I love AG1 with a science-informed blend of vitamins probiotics and whole food source nutrients AG1 is the ultimate daily foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole body health I initially gave AG1 a try because one I believe in what they're doing and quite simply I want to be great with my nutrition nine years later it's still 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conversation sounds like it's going to sound super simple but it sounds like the purpose was really clear to help the team win and to be a contributor to that was the purpose and if you work back from that framework if I have that correctly then you know it is not about like look at me it's not about my individual contribution it's about like being a contributor to the purpose which if I have it right the purpose is you know for the collective the team to be there very best yeah okay are you more interested julia in the team winning or the team performing at their highest level oh great question I mean I would love to say team performing at its highest level but champ winning matter don't watch and I'm always like let's not focus on outcomes people we know that's dangerous but like winning battered I mean it did it did I did not love my silver medal I didn't love it I call it white gold I call it white gold more because like the one so I played in three Olympics we won gold in the first and the last one the middle one was the one we won white gold in and second best in the world that it's just hard to swallow isn't it second best I know I told my mom I'm being silly she's like come on you just want silver I think I don't want silver but that was because it was probably the best game final we played in a very long time against that Norwegian I don't even say what I got gold medal winning Norwegian team gold medal Viking bitches so I I mean it was one of the best finals we'd ever played which is why it hurt so much so because we played so well and we ended up still with the white gold but yeah I do think you know as much as we could and I completely buy into the idea of like outcome you cannot be outcome related I but I the reality was we went into every tournament as a US women soccer team saying we will be on the top of that podium so that's just how it is and if you're not on the top then the reality is it's like that's not good enough so we had high expectations for sure I can't help but listening to this conversation and looking at your hat which says be here now right and like you know which is very different than go get the outcome and it is if I appreciate all of the honesty here because you know treating those two imposters the same victory in defeat like it's it's it I want aspirationally that feels right to me and then when I'm in a step down from that and I feel the anxiousness of not giving the thing that I think is so important for the next phase of my life but I don't necessarily know like how winning in failure is going to play dividends later and I do think that some of my most career shifting life perspective building moments come have come out of really hard times oh absolutely yeah so it's like at one level when I say it it sounds so try like I'll go or see you know but then at a deeper level it's like no no that's real and I love winning yeah but when I'm when I'm at my very bad when I'm at my highest most free self you know I'm not I look up and it's like the club the buzzer just happened and I have no idea what the score is and I bet because I'm completely in love with the the unfolding next moment yeah you know and so okay so we're on the same page it's it's hard it is really difficult to do what are you teaching your your kids to your point on failure and defeat it every on our podcast when the last segment we do on the podcast is something that when they were younger I did a lot around the dinner table we do it they're high of the day they're low of the day we call it high low cheer and the cheer is for someone that's helped you along the way right so we do this on the podcast we do high of their career low of their career and the cheer is for someone who's helped you along the way like it's the sense of gratitude for someone of course and always on the podcast the low is what created the high almost always I mean it's it of course I mean failure and extracting that lesson becomes the biggest thing is hard to teach it you know a teenager that it's hard to explain I mean we just had a situation with my daughter recently I mean as I was saying you sports is very intense and she plays for you know the highest tier of soccer teams EC&L level is what they call it and there's so many different acronyms to it it gets very confusing but you know she was trying out for a better team and didn't know whether she should or not could she make it and did that mean she would lose her spot on her current team and it's all these like stressors that these kids have to deal with and she was getting pressure to sign with the old team and um and I said is he this is this is such a good lesson for life right like you're you're gonna be in a situation where it's you're gonna have to walk to the edge and it's a little uncomfortable and you don't know if you can make that leap right in terms of like I'm gonna go into this next career I'm gonna try this transition I don't know if it's gonna work out and so I said but guess what you don't know unless you dip your toe in that water so we're gonna we're gonna try out we're gonna try this this new team that is a bit better and see if we can make it and if we don't then we know that we tried and you won't have those regrets for the rest of your life and so I think that's where sports is such a valuable tool is is if we can if we can make the link um as parents teachers I mean we could be planting these seeds all the time coaches of like this is a great skill set for life like it's gonna be scary and it's gonna you're gonna have butterflies and that means it matters and that's a good thing um let's go try it and so I said we got it we got to try so and she tried out for this new team and made this new team right and so now we're like okay now you know what it feels like and it's scary you did it you stepped outside that comfort zone and there is magic on the other side and guess what sometimes there's not gonna be and you're gonna fall flat flat on your face but you won't have those regrets for not trying so again I go back to what I started with the gift of sport is that I constantly am trying to reframe it for the kids in a sense if it's my son with basketball right it's um you know he's a great he was a great passer of the ball and he was a great facilitator and so my husband and I would have these conversations around the dinner table casually have just like that's great that you're such a good teammate but you know what I think there's the potential for you to be scoring as well like to step up your game and so like your game is gonna get better when you threaten to score so people are actually having to defend you and then people will open up so you can pass to them and unless you're threatening you know your passing is gonna be more difficult so having those conversations about how you step into again now that's a more like hey you're being a great teammate but now I want you to focus more on like how are you gonna make the team better by being better yourself and I don't think again those are mutually exclusive I think you've got to constantly be figuring out how you get better to make the group better but it's got to be about making the group better okay let's see if we can think through what I don't know a three to five step plan could be for a car ride and I'm thinking post-car ride so your son or daughter just got done with practice and so practice not a game practice yeah practice practice what do you yeah what do you do like what's that where do you start do you want to do you watch practice or are you waiting no no no no no watch practice so you're waiting in the car um do you pick up I say the pause well I have a large carpool that we're part of thank god I'm all about the carpool so um I don't if I'm just in the car with my kid if it's if it's like a carpool it's very different of course if I'm just in the car with my kid so let's say I'm picking up my kid I will say how did it go oh pretty good it was good right yeah exactly you get it was good um and then I usually say what do we learn today that's different what do we learn that was different okay um now I say that about school too you say I'm a school yeah so it's consistent so it's not like sport has a deeper meaning to you than then that's cool okay so what do we learn that was new all right cool question does that get him going does that get either your kids going sometimes not always okay cuz I ask a similar question which was I ask about like did you have any unlocks today so so we're on the same yeah we're on the same kind of unlocks yeah well you got explained to him too like what do you mean mom there's no I'm not picking any locks the concrete mind of an adolescent okay and then and then what happens um and then they usually want to go to their phone and so I say time out give me like four minutes put the phone down let's talk oh that phone Michael that's a whole other podcast right the constant battle with the phone because mind you they've been a practice they haven't been on their phone for two hours and got forbidden you haven't been on your phone for two hours so usually I might just give me five minutes put the phone away and let's talk um that sometimes works um what I have discovered is when your kid is learning to drive or driving that's a great time for conversation is it really oh I would yeah because oh okay they can't be on their phone they're watching the road they're driving and so while they're driving I mean they can still talk and they're paying attention but we have a lot of really great conversations because they're not on their own oh that is a okay that's in a lot for me today yeah yeah that's coming soon okay and then so in that four to five minute frame and I love that you time bound it that is awesome so it decreases their anxiety they know it's a 20 ride 35 minute car ride home whatever okay so 45 minutes and then in that four to five minutes what are you trying to help illuminate are you trying to share wisdom are you trying to just get their perspective do you just want them I've really tried to limit my urge to give feedback right especially in the soccer space because my kid is like look I know you know soccer so do we have to talk about this all the time right so I really try and just elicit like their thoughts rather than give this like I've tried to really fight the urge to just throw up my thoughts on them and be like let me hear from you how was it what did you learn what new things are you trying those kind of things that's what that's what I'm going for or just like what was the vibe of the team like what are the players say how's the team doing those kind of conversations like what's the feeling the mood amongst the group and do you have a sense of that because again I feel like that is such a part of success of a team right if if that vibe is good what did the coach say those kind of things that's one of my favorite questions that which is like what did the coach share after practice yeah and then I'll say you know did you get any did you get any individual coaching from the coaches what was that about you know and so like trying to understand Greg Olson he's a he played at the Seahawks but he played for Carolina Panthers for a long time he's one of the top 10 for sure tight ends in the in the league and he's coaching you sport and he's got this great practice is that he would pull all the coaches in at the end of practice when the kids would take a knee and the coach would say you know something for two to three minutes whatever it is and he would have the parents make a half circle behind so that he's delivering one message to the family and so the car ride home was really about that message and so that was a really good practice yeah yeah good practice all right cool do you have do you have a as we're wrapping it up here do you have a moment in the car ride home where you're like oh I wish I could take this one back uh yes oh yeah of course I think we all parents do I do tell you you know I this happened recently actually and and uh my husband and I were in the car together and I think I reacted to something a little strongly and my husband shot me that stink guy of like too soon not now like you know like no don't do that right not right now not in the car right now um so yeah of course you do but I think the thing that I I mean another thing I really lock it on is during a game watching it's never like instruction to my kid I really try like if I'm gonna say anything from the sidelines it's to the collective or it's congratulating other players like celebrating other players great past Michaela good shot Michaela um way to go win you know like and and I think um locking in again on the collective and the power of that and giving that example as a parent rather than like hollering at your kid um so that is something I really lock in on um but I've I've really tried I just think like you cannot in that moment of whether you win or lost right especially if you lost like just like save it save it for at least 24 hours and then you can always come back to it when you're in a better space like the your your kids in a better space and um I mean that's true of anything in life I think you need to give that 24 hour window but I really try and honor that I it's funny you say that because I I know that to be the case and then 24 hours later it's like I'm less interested yeah they have zero interested it you know they've moved on to whatever and so for a lot of reasons it's a it's a it's a really good marker right exactly you're like why did I care so deeply about yeah what was going on with like who cares yeah exactly are you okay that's what I often think are you all right parent to parent yeah I know yeah and I love I love the insight like at games um it's it's more about the collective or you know supporting everybody as opposed to anything that has to do with my son that's for sure yeah okay quick hits you ready yes okay this is like answers I think one or two what are two words answers okay okay don't have too much fun wait I got a lock in I got a lock in yeah me here now I mean be here now all right good got my power pose going okay okay this is where I get competitive see I get competitive I'm like let's go it's good perfect all right it all comes down to it all comes down to joy living the good life is marked by laughter success is doing something significant choosing to matter pressure comes from with end of course blank will win the 2023 World Cup oh damn um um Germany I know who tells you know uh not those people that told you to reel it in they did not they did not win my dog swag every day nope I'm not walking this way nope wait what is your dog's name swaggy swaggy pee it's perfect of course it's swaggy did you have swaggy did you identify with swag like that is that where that came from there was uh there was a a basketball player that played uh for the Lakers named swaggy pee there was a friend of ours naming their dog swagger we're like oh we're gonna steal that what we're gonna call our swaggy D swaggy dog instead of swaggy pee so um yes swaggy she's got a lot of swag did you have swag when you played no no you had no swag so funny still no swag yeah okay and then um last one what would you title this conversation thoughtful you're always thoughtful Michael thoughtful I love them about you thank you oh thank you your podcast what you do how you live is thoughtful you make you make people stop and think and I am not great at that so I appreciate you for going wow how did you do this and why did you do like I don't know my I don't you know like I was just doing my thing yeah just doing all right well you know thank you for everything that you stand for the beacon that you are in your life uh for so many people um the consistency in how you line up your words your thoughts and your actions is super it's it's like it's so easy to see that yeah and it's refreshing so where do you want to drive folks where's the where's the best place to guide them um go check out the podcast laughter permitted which really Fowdy um yeah check out our leadership academy we've been doing this incredible using sports is kind of the vehicle to teach leadership to young girls uh julie fattie leadership calm we do that every summer that's kind of my passion project so check out angel city you don't have to check out me see again I don't see just keep it isn't yeah like it like point to others not yourself who cares what you're doing so you've done over a hundred episodes right on yeah what's all women too all women all women all women yeah and and the basically I can't remember if I said this in the last podcast but I'll say it again but basically the idea started because ESPN had podcasts but they were obviously mostly male listeners mostly male guests and so I think I told you this because I know I met you originally through carry walls Jennings that's right and so our first two podcasts guest to convince ESPN we were like well first of all I didn't want to do a podcast and my producer at ESPN was like you need to do a podcast there's so much fun and we'll just do all these amazing women so the two of us put asked me a ham and carry who both lived like two blocks from each other um at the time and Manhattan Beach if they would be our guinea pigs and we did like two sample podcasts we sent them to ESPN and within like a day they were like yes yes let's go and so you've you've had a bunch of friends you've had of of our friends like Sue Enquest was on yeah yeah Oksana Masters yeah April and Alex the yeah yeah you've had a bunch yeah Becky was on our podcast so it was Kelly O'Hara she was on yeah I mean yeah with that all of them yeah you've had some incredible folks on yeah so and that I mean like how can you call this a job you get a you get to learn from people every day and and listen and and react and it's just so much fun like podcasts are so fun because it's as you know it's like oh my god I just I gotta I gotta call this a job today they come on that's so much fun so that's how I feel when I'm doing it they are so so as a reductionist question like is there one big takeaway that you're you know that you're carrying with you right now that you've learned from all of these credible women oh gosh um yeah I I mean I think the thing when I look at all of them and their success I mean our our one requirement is that not even that they have to be an athlete I know it's an ESPN podcast it's not even that they have to be an athlete they just have to be a trailblazer is our one thing like in whatever field they are and I think that's the thing I always come back to is the courage it takes in those moments what everyone else is saying something different and you inside you know like no no I know this is right and I am gonna live this out whether it's a dream whether it's helping someone starting something making that leap and getting to that edge and um and the ways in which they summon the courage to get it done or to be the best version of themselves is what always fascinates me so that's a lot I mean we don't we rarely talk exes knows right we're not breaking down tactical stuff it's just it's life and what you're learning out of it and as we said your low often becomes your high and that's how they learn is they probably go through a lot of lows as well has somebody interviewed you have one of these credible women interview you because I think that the narrative that you just described is exactly who you are and like have you have you had the mic turned on you on yours oh yeah occasionally they'll start asking questions and I'll be like uh excuse me I am the host of this podcast I asked the questions I think in quest in quest probably did that because she's always asking questions she's so curious I love her she's so good all right Julie always a blast um appreciate you and all right Michael good to see you may it be before Paris in 2024 bro let's let's do that okay all right take care bye yeah bye bye all right thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you we really appreciate you being part of this community and if you're enjoying the show the easiest no cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening also if you haven't already please consider dropping us a review on apple or Spotify we are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback if you're looking for even more insights we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday punch over to finding mastery.com slash newsletter to sign up this show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors and we take our recommendations seriously and the team is very thoughtful about making sure we love and endorse every product 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