Mental Health Awareness Month with June Atkind

of service. I'm Leslie Mack producer and cohost and on today's show we highlight mental health awareness month with a discussion with June at camp. But first let's check in with the crew. Chelsea Hannah Lex. How are y'all doing today? We're good. I'm good. I'm excited. Yeah, I'm the week. It's end of the week. It's a Friday and festival season is upon us which brings us to our first conversation. We are starting a new mini series as part of season two. We have a few of these that will be announcing. The first one is called Into the Fest which is a new mini podcast series from us where we'll be going to some festivals and reporting back on all of the shenanigans that take place at them. We're going to start with Scamp. I'm going to turn it over to Chelsea Hannah just run through what's going to be happening there because they're going and their official media. They're recovering the festival. It's very exciting and it's Chelsea's first camping festival. And also I think it's going to be quite a reunion of people that are going to miss Scamp the way that it has been prior up until this year. So take it away, Chelsea. Oh, you're muted. Summer Camp Music Festival is coming up starting Thursday the 25th and we will be there Hannah and I hopefully you caught our live that we did on Facebook. If not, check it out. We talked about summer camp and our plans and all that great stuff. But I did want to chat really fast because every time we talk about summer camp, this one band keeps coming up. And so I thought it was only right if we gave them a proper feature because we've mentioned their name several times. So we keep hearing about this band name Mr. Please. They're going to be playing on Thursday at four o'clock at summer camp on the pre party. And they are a super groovy rock band from Louisville, Kentucky with a knack for both catchy hooks and deep improvisation. They bring a new sound fusing fresh, danceable tracks with jams that range from funky to e-thru that are sure to get your booty move in and feet tap in and seeing them live is the best way to experience their richly textured sound. So you will have that chance at summer camp. They actually won the battle of the bands to get this spot at summer camp. So that's huge for them. And like I said, they'll be playing Thursday, four to five p.m. on the soul shine stage. So make sure you hit up Mr. Please. I actually have been listening to them on Spotify and I'm really into it. So we will definitely be seeing the show. And you can listen to them on Spotify or on bandcamp and follow them on Instagram and Facebook at Mr. Please music. We'll have all those links in the show notes. Yes. So scams up first. And how does heels will be heading to residents. Who's talking about that? Is that you, Hannah? Oh, yes, I am. Oh, yes. So we're going to residence. That's where we're going to be. I just wanted to add one thing about scam, which is that I actually have been getting DMS from people asking about it. And if tickets are still available. So I just want to say, yes, tickets are still available. Consider going, especially knowing that it's going to change significantly after this year. And I had a cool interaction with someone who was like, Oh, like my husband, I didn't realize that there was workshops that you can do at summer camp. And I was like, Oh, yeah. She was like, that would be like the make it or break it for us. And so I sent her the information about like the yoga stuff they do in the flow arts workshop. So just keep that in mind. If that's new, you like, you know, Scamp is where it's at. But also residence is awesome. So I just wanted to talk a little bit about that. It's going to be at Nelson ledges this year, which is a legendary venue for festivals in Ohio. It's beautiful. There's quarries and cliffs, just like anything you could ever want in nature is there. So if you're not big on camping festivals. And just know that this is one that you know you might actually want to camp out just because there's a lot of outdoorsy type stuff you can do if you want to get away and just meditate nature and be amongst, you know, the beauty that our world has to offer. But also be careful because it is very rustic. And so if you do go exploring, make sure you bring a buddy and make sure that you all are aware that there are cliffs and, you know, jump, like jumping off points and stuff like that. So just be really careful when you if and when you go exploring. And then I guess for me, I am very excited about residence because I haven't seen festivals in Ohio. Probably since I was maybe 20 or 21 and I'm 35 long time. And every time I have tried to see a festival at Nelson ledges for one reason or another it's not worked out either the festival gets moved, or I couldn't get time off work or whatever. And so it's very special to me that this is the last residence that they're doing. And it's at this beautiful amazing venue that I've never been to I've basically been chasing this venue, I guess. And so that makes it an especially special festival for me. And so I'm actually not going to work the festival. I just want to hang out with my Ohio, homeys my sincey trash crew friends to be an audience member the entire time of residence. And then of course we know Goose's headlining, which is awesome two nights of Goose, but also great blue, which is one of Peter side projects is also on the lineup, which is really cool. And then I know we talked a little bit about this band doom flamingo on our show. It's one of the bands that Chelsea and I shouted out that we want to see when we did our live the other day for summer camp. And then I believe Leslie was talking about them whenever she was doing coverage of the jazz festival she did a no la. So that's another exciting band. And then another cool the last thing I'll say about about residence is that they have a TBA still for one of the headliner. Slots so it would be interesting to see who they bring in for that. And it kind of makes it a fun little like, you know, we were talking about you can only plan so much. We can this is like an unknown factor, I guess, for best which I think is cool. So I believe the word on the street is that there's a. A. What do you call it parameter or perimeter clause. They know who the headliner is, but they can't announce it until the show they're playing that's too close to the location of residence is over and then they can announce it. So they know who it is, but they can't say because of these clauses that different venues have that you're not allowed to announce shows that are within, you know, 150 or 200 miles of wherever the show is so. This makes it so interesting like, who is it going to be like, have we looked up, you know, like, have we like, there's entire Reddit threads just talking about this particular topic. So if you want to chat with Drew Hill, he'll happily drive dive down. Rad the whole with you. The last festival for sure that we'll be covering is going to be levitate, which is at the end of goose's summer tour. And I'm just being honest, I added levitate to the end of my summer tour run because Brandi Carlisle is also one of the headlines. And I've been trying to catch her live for quite a few years now. So of course, goose is headlining the third night didn't hurt. And I'm excited to attend the fast. I've never even heard of the festival before this in addition to Brandi and goose levitate features train a stage, a band stick figure, Ziggy Marley, Lucius, melt, Selisa and more. And a couple of cool things about levitate as well as in addition to music acts. They have a live and experiential art component, which will feature live muralists and art installations. And this is also a really, really super kid friendly fast. They have a whole kid zone dedicated to engaging young fans and they even have levitate camp counselors. So they're there to like engage with kids and really have them integrated into the entire process. So tickets are still available for levitate. You can go to levitate music festival.com and get your tickets right there. They're available. I think they have day passes available now as well. This is just outside of Boston. I think it's like 45 minutes to an hour outside of Boston in Massachusetts. Definitely hit that one up. Definitely. And Friday night, let's see stick figures playing. If you have not seen stick figure or have not heard of stick figure, I highly suggest that you look him up. I think K-bongs that one too. I think there are a lot of amazing. So many. I just pulled a few like literally. Yeah, so many acts. I'm so excited for that one. Like I'm so excited for that one. So definitely check that out and get your tickets. Get your tickets. All right. So we just want to announce our into the festival be on the lookout one when you see us out here in the streets. Come say hi. We'll be doing interviews and talking with folks and handing out some cool summer tour slops. Everybody as well while we're out there. Maybe I should start saying stickers. I'm realizing if people are not within the scene and I'm saying slops all the time. They might think we're hitting folks. We're not. Stickers people. So you can get a free sticker from us to support Goose Chicks podcast. And yeah, we're really excited to go to these festivals together in different combinations and configurations and get to see some more music and interact with lots of live music fans. I'm interested too because I think a lot of folks at these festivals are going to be introduced to goose. So that's going to be fun just seeing people a lot of folks go into their first goose live show. Which is going to be really cool. All right. We are going to take a quick break. When we get back, we're going to talk about mental health awareness month to bring our special guest you and Aiken on. We'll be right back. See you up three day one month. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Welcome back everyone. Thanks for sticking with us. We are so honored to host today's conversation and observance of mental health awareness month. For some background on why this month is actually even needed. Here are some statistics about mental health in the United States. 46% of Americans will meet the criteria for a diagnosable mental health condition sometime in their life. And that means around a 50 million US adults are dealing with a mental illness right now. There's also a real shortage of providers for mental health services. 20 almost 25% of adults with a mental health illness report that they've tried to get support and they've been unable to receive treatment. And on a state to state level, the ratio of individuals to available mental health providers is 504 to one. It's a really big deficit that we are all dealing with. I also wanted to highlight President Biden's proclamation for mental health awareness month where he wrote in part, quote, during National Mental Health Awareness Month, we honor the absolute courage of the tens of millions of Americans living with mental health conditions. And we celebrate the loved ones and mental health professionals who are there for them every day. Treatment works and there is no shame in seeking it. Together we will keep fighting to get everyone access to the care they need to live full and happy lives. The United States has long faced a shortage of mental health providers. It takes an average of 11 years to get treatment before the on after the onset of symptoms and less than half of American struggling with mental illness ever received the care that they need. This is especially true in rural and other underserved communities end quote. Now we are not experts in this area, so we brought a heavy hitter in to help us sort through the challenges of getting support for your own mental health and the importance of mental health and self care in general. June Aiken has a master's degree in counseling psychology, a master's of social work degree and decades of work in a variety of settings with multiple populations, currently seeing older adolescents and adults across their lifespans in private practice. She has an eclectic and pragmatic approach, primarily drawing from mindfulness based practices, especially act or acceptance and commitment therapy. I would be remiss to not also mention she happens to be the mother of goose's drummer Ben Aiken, but we are so excited to have a join on the show. Welcome June. Thank you for joining us and lending us your expertise for this really important topic. I hope you're doing well today and I'm going to turn the floor over to Lex to get this conversation started. Hey, June, thank you for being with us today. And I just want to give everyone a background. I met June last year and so we just started talking and then found out that she was a therapist or, you know, worked in mental health area. And so that automatically interests me because I have a background with my sister being manic, depressed, bipolar and all of us having problems here and there. So over the last few months, I've just been talking on and off with June and with it being mental health awareness month, this month. I was just like, Oh, hey, can we get an interview this month? Or, you know, can we get you on this month because it's such an important topic. And I've heard, you know, so many of my friends discussing it and especially this year. I mean, just last week, I was at the doctor's office and I didn't realize that, but I was talking to my doctor about how I had been feeling the last few months and just going on and on and on and at the end of it, he was like, Alex, he is like, you have anxiety. And I just, it never clicked. And when he said that, I was just like, Oh, wow, that is true. And so, so then he puts me on like a little medicine and, and was saying you need to get therapy, which I've been a big proponent of therapy and have done throughout my life. And so immediately, as soon as the appointments over, I'm texting June and I'm like, Oh my goodness, I'm like, we really have to try and destigmatize this because it is such a problem and it becomes prevalent in one's life. And June was telling me, she was like, you know, everyone is going to need therapy at some point in time or to talk to someone at some point in time in their life. And there's no problem with saying that life is hard. And there's no problem in saying that I need help at some point. So I'm very excited to get June on and to continue this conversation of trying to destigmatize mental health and trying to find, you know, mental health providers and what we can do to look around this month is especially 2023. They are saying the theme this month is to look around and look within. It could happen from your neighborhoods to genetics. And so I just like to get the conversation going from there. And you know, what can, what can we do or how do we look in and see that that we need help our friends need help and so what do you think about it, June. So where I would start in terms of the destigmatizing is actually I would just edit. I think what you said that that maybe I said or maybe it didn't come out maybe the way I intended but I don't know that everybody is going to need a therapist at some point in their life. But I think everybody is going to have ups and downs in terms of their mental health, their well being, just the way the other kinds of health that we all have, you know, physical vulnerabilities. We all have kind of this DNA that creates this kind of our hard wiring both and so physically some some of our more or less vulnerable to, you know, all kinds of physical and mental disorders. And then there's the things that kind of life throws at us over the course of the lifetime. So that there's infinite combinations of all of those things. And I think that just like also, you know, the only ingredient in health care isn't doctors. There's a lot that we also need to do for ourselves. In terms of self care and in terms of maintaining our physical health, the same thing I look at mental health the exact same way that there are things that we need to be mindful of and incorporate into just our lifestyle to help to keep us resilient and help keep us feeling and functioning as as well as we can, knowing that obviously just like physically sometimes we have to go to urgent care or the doctor or whatever it is. There are going to be times that the all of the self care, all of the, the, the kind of daily activities that keep us physically and mentally healthy are, are not going to quite meet our needs, then we need to seek elsewhere. Right. I find that completely true when at the last couple months I haven't been able to do my physical exercise as much and walking. And I've found it was just such a quick decline in how that I felt mentally how I felt physically. And you just don't realize how much that one thing and walking every morning or doing something small for, for your health can truly affect your mental health, your physical health, your overall well being. Yeah, and we are I like the phrase, you know, we people kind of run together the mind and body connection kind of a thing. But I like even better the phrase kind of where a mind body that there isn't really it's an artificial separation that. So, so even breaking it apart which again goes to the destigmatizing it goes to this is just where we're human beings and we're vulnerable there's a lot of very complicated systems that have to all kind of be working correctly for us to feel and function the way we would like to. Right. It seems like you take a really holistic approach to mental health services. And I really appreciate that, you know, some little likes I hadn't been working out and I just got a new gym membership because I wasn't feeling good, like not just physically but like in my headspace to. And sometimes you just need to work out stuff when you're stretching or running or swimming, whatever you do. So I appreciate that so much. And I also appreciate like not only do we need to just stigmatize seeking services, but maybe not everyone does need therapy like, you know, because I was just talking to one of my best friends about this and also do you ever get like depressed or, you know, have anxiety or anything and he was like, not really. And like, you know, he's one of those people who unless there's something circumstantial may never need therapy, but just being able to ask that and like, you know, as someone who does see a therapist not having me judge him either I think is important right. Like he's healthy, he's fine, he's okay. And if he needs to seek services he can. And that's for right now it's always right. All of these things are very fluid across our lifespan and depending on situations and definitely. And that's a really important reason of why we also need to destigmatize it because, you know, we can be okay today and then, you know, tomorrow a lot of things can just hit us that we never figured would hit us. And so it's just like you said life is fluid so today we might be fine tomorrow we might be fine but in a year or two we might need that and so, and I love what you said about, you know, not judging those that don't need therapy or don't need help and you know we're talking to someone and not judging those who do need, you know, who do need help. I do have a question about like in your biography about the act. Could you tell us a little bit more the acceptance and commitment therapy about that. Yeah, absolutely. So it's kind of comes under the cognitive behavioral domain and also mindfulness. And it's basically a very holistic and strength based approach to mental health, which I think you've kind of caught on is kind of the my there's those are kind of the my leaning so it's hard to explain. I didn't kind of, I'm not kind of organized to explain it fully except to say that that that that well being is a function of a whole bunch of things. And one of the things that I think that gets overlooked that I think is very relevant to something like the goose community is, is values that you know we tend to think in terms of mental health about I want to get rid of this symptom. I don't like feeling depressed. I don't like feeling anxious. I don't want to feel I don't want to I don't want to even behavior is I want to stop doing this at whatever addictive behaviors or whatever it is. And I think that what act does and what I really what really resonates with me is that in you know the way we talk about kind of carrots and sticks as being motivators and we very rarely talk about the carrots and that would be our values and and talks about getting a life that is aligned with our values and thinking about who we want to be and what's important to us rather just what we don't want to experience and what we don't want to feel or what we don't want to think is really putting a lot of giving more attention to what we do want in life. And that I think the avoidance kinds of things I don't want to feel this I don't want to think this I don't want people to see me this way. And that's what I think results in just a very constricted life sometimes or results in doing things that in the short term make us feel better and that sometimes that's you know kind of self medicating with different substances. And that is avoiding things that you know ultimately aren't great for us to avoid sometimes it's you know overeating or even things like avoiding exercise I just want to curl up on the couch and ultimately that may be in the short term, something that makes us feel better And the long term it's really not contributing towards creating a life. That's really where we're really going to thrive. And so what I love about the boost community is as I've gotten to know it and I was not somebody who you know this is a thanks to my son that I have that I know what a live music community is like I didn't kind of do this in my more competitive years, is that there really is a community based on people really sharing interests and sharing passions and I think that from the get go Helped people to find how they want to live their life how they want to spend their money, how they want to spend their leisure time And I've been with people on really I've read some of the posts where people are talking about the lyrics of the songs and the meanings and sharing and so really deep and very meaningful kinds of things. Based on what people are interested in and I think if I'm not going to feel very good, if I'm paying attention to, you know, really listening to this music or connecting with this person or planning this trip. I'm going to feel a lot better in that particular moment. Oh, that's so beautiful that's so true. And you just saying that is just so eye opening and and the truth of the matter because it's also focusing on the negative of what we don't want to do and, you know, magnifying that to a level because we're just thinking of the positive all the time instead of what we want to do and what the path that takes us there and thinking of the positive and, wow, that's so interesting mind blown at this moment just definitely needed that too. So that's a, that's just an eye opening way to see things and thank you very much for that. And I think that the whole disabilities awareness movement in general as just the framing even the way I know now that that handicap accessible signs. There's a picture picture of like a wheelchair that's moving. It's not stagnant. It's actually, you know, moving and, you know, a person with a disability. I'm a person with who sometimes feels anxious. I'm a person with this particular there's a person there. And then bringing more attention to the part of the person the parts of the person that are functioning well and kind of there the materials there and the tools there and so that's another way in which it's not all about I need a therapist. I need somebody outside of myself and I think the role of therapy often or at least, you know, my, my approach would be to just help broaden somebody's perspective about that about seeing and I think that that's something that you don't need any kind of a degree to do is that if you have somebody who is kind of getting caught up in negative emotions or negative thoughts. Being able as a friend to help remind them of who they who you know them to be apart from the place where the struggle is. Right. Yeah. Sorry, just one sec tells me I wanted to go back to something you said earlier June about, you know, that we're a mind body right that's kind of melding of the pieces together. I knew Chelsea I saw your face because this is something actually Chelsea talks about quite often on the show. We call her our Empress because she always has these really wise pieces and often come back to that connection between mind and body and not separating them. And this is not speaking a term that some of my husband talks about quite often but my husband lives with a bipolar to diagnosis and he says that very often when he introduces himself to people that I'm someone who lives with bipolar to diagnosis and it took a long time for him to get to the point of one wanting to talk about it but to having language that felt like he wasn't other at othering himself in the process right. Not that I am bipolar because he's not just that right and so I really appreciate what you're saying about respecting the individual and the personhood of all of each of us individually and when we're in the world and interacting with folks that may be going through struggles and also that mind body connection I think so much of our healthcare system is silos, the needs that we have and it's so detrimental to us and that is true for everything from I care to dental care to mental health support that we've we have these things siloed and it also then puts them in order of importance right. And we also know statistically we can look and see how they have effects on one another that dental care has a direct correlation to heart health and that mental stability has a direct correlation to our ability to focus and have good health in our bodies generally speaking. So I love breaking down all those barriers I think so much of these conversations end up siloed as well and we talk only about mental health during this one month or we talk about it with a really specific lens that doesn't always pull as wide out as we should be to really have as much impact as possible and I think this community is a really unique one and hasn't hasn't has the ability or could have the ability to have some of these conversations deeper with each other in spaces that are positive in spaces that are were open and we're able to really see the humanity with each other so I just love all of that and I still stick with my pre show on the label and a brilliant one referring to I'm going to just make sure that sat on air as well. Chelsea what were you going to say? Oh, so I June when I saw your bio I looked up this acceptance and commitment therapy because I was curious what it was all about and just from briefly what I read which was really quick. It seems like mindfulness is a big part of this and for me I also have dealt with anxiety my life very badly and I don't really so much anymore because I think I naturally do this acceptance and commitment therapy to myself which came about I think through meditation though because I started meditating focusing on mindfulness spiritual connection and that sort of thing and now it's kind of naturally part of my life to you know feel these feelings and go through life that way and it's I'm just really happy because I so often have people ask me like how did you kind of change your life this way like you know what did you do and I'm like most of the time I just say I started meditating I don't know that's really that's what I did and that's now here this is where I'm at and so that connection to you know being mindful taking time to meditate and things like that if I think that's a great place for people to start if you are feeling that's where I you know I was in therapy already but when I started doing like it was like a I think it was called a guided meditation for acceptance so there you go but was like the first one I did like during COVID because it was so much going on and everyone's like doesn't know what's gonna happen and things like that and so I think that's an easy place for people to start with their mindfulness journey which can you know as you're saying can have such an effect on their mental health and so I just wanted to point that out and thank you for telling us about this because I'm going to read more about the acceptance and commitment therapy as well. Yeah that's a great point and I think the way you're describing it too is that I use the metaphor it's like building a muscle and it's not something that kind of right all the bits not cure all it's not something that you know every time I'm upset I'm going to meditate but it's something that I think works best is if over time and what meditation what the essence is and I do teach and practice meditation is about our focus of attention and setting an intention rather than and that's where kind of the values come in with act is setting an intention that I'm gonna focus on these values or I'm gonna focus when I'm doing my meditation on my breath and instead of I'm gonna push that so not not about I'm gonna push those thoughts away or I'm going to feel Zen or I'm going to whatever I'm just gonna focus on my breath I'm gonna focus on what's happening right in this moment I'm gonna focus on my body I'm gonna focus on an image I'm gonna focus on a candle a flame but it's learning how to be more intentional about our attention because what we're paying attention to and that the example everybody who knows me knows that my biggest challenge in the world is going to the dentist and that what helps me when I'm sitting in the dentist chair is I do this you know visualization with myself so that I'm you know it's the classic kind of the beach kind of and I'm you know paying attention to sound of the waves you know what we in my imagination the sound of the waves and the smell of the ocean and that very specific sensory and the things is what I'm paying attention to so that I can sit in that chair and be reasonably comfortable and calm you know it's not it's not you know it's not a complete silver bullet but it's better but conversely one can be sitting on a beach and you know beautiful pristine gorgeous and be thinking about that thing that happened that thing I said that you know I thought was awkward or the thing I'm anticipating that I'm nervous about and feel really stressed really tense really uncomfortable so that ability to focus our attention on things that are going to benefit us and typically it is one of my favorite there's a Stephen Hayes is one of the act kind of the gurus of act and one of the books that you wrote which is it's very accessible it's something that kind of anybody can kind of it's it's very user friendly but the title of it I quote a lot it's called get out of your mind and into your life and it is about act and it is about just don't keep dwelling on what you're feeling what you're thinking and I don't want to feel that it's uncomfortable is kind of step back and kind of look at the other things that are you have control over and the acceptance part really is accepting the things we can't control I can't control a thought that comes into my mind you know when people say to themselves or say out loud how many times do people say I feel bad for thinking this way or I shouldn't think this or I shouldn't feel this we feel what we feel we think what we think we're not in control of that accepting that I'm going to have these feelings I'm going to have these thoughts but now what do I want to pay attention to that those thoughts are there I can just let them be while I go pay attention to something else and you know ultimately I'm going to be kind of moving in in a direction that is going to work a lot better that's awesome because that's exactly what I was thinking when you were saying this I was like well how do we take because that's the exact truth we can be sitting in a beautiful spot and on the beach and you know just have these worries and these anxieties and that tends to be my anxiety oh I said something awkward or this is coming up and so you just answered it right there that those things are going to be there but you have to focus on the things in the moment and getting out of your head and I'm definitely going to check that book out because that's a major major thing of anxiety that I have all the time is looking back at what I've done and you know and I need to realize like it's happened you know I can't go back and change it just have to move forward and you know and the things that are coming up just know what's coming up and I can't you know you can't anticipate it anymore you can just be prepared and you're just prepared and I keep trying to tell myself you know we're all learning in this just taking a step forward and trying to do my best is the the only thing I can do is just trying my best and doing my best so I'm trying to work with those anxieties and so it's wonderful talking to you and hearing these all these tips and and things that are happening in our real lives and things that we can put to use and especially I mean to the this community what's what's happening the common denominator is the music and the you know the the shows and what better place to put one's attention and to really so paying attention so to choosing experiences exactly I spoke to somebody earlier today who was about to get in her car and drive to an interview and about what are you going to listen to in the car are you going to put on some some music or you don't listen to a podcast you know how are you going to set yourself up to not be oh my God what if I say and I want this job and what if I don't get it and and you know to to to to be able to arrive and to perform as as well as you can in the interview it's it's not going to be who you to be worrying about what if I don't do and and the high stakes involved let me just focus on something else that's going to help me to be in in in a kind of centered ground in place exactly I like to call it like my bubble when I'm going to do things I like to put myself in my bubble and have you know the music the things that are going to keep me completely focused on what's happening and not worrying about other factors and other things that are things that have happened or and even have anxieties about what's going on I like to have music going and and know exactly what it takes and and Leslie and the girls can tell you you know like when I'm up there going to do photography I will completely just bubble out and zone out and not pay attention I'll have my headphones and listening to music and just getting in my zone to where I feel comfortable and to do to do what I've got to do and I think that that's something very important that a lot of us don't do because when I don't get in my bubble then for something that I'm completely off centered off kilter just can't do can't work the way that that I was that I wanted to work Yeah I was I was talking with Dr. Leah Taylor yesterday from Groove Therapy about a bunch of things but one of the things we talked about was how so many of us have such specific pre show rituals before we go to shows and that really the focus at least for me in my rituals I didn't realize they were rituals so we started having this conversation but is that I'd want to get myself to the place where I can enjoy the show the way I want to enjoy it and so that starts with a lot of things on the front end for me making sure I have the things I need making sure I'm taking meds at specific time is making sure that I have people around me that I enjoy being around all the way to ordering food and having it at wherever I'm staying to eat after the show so I'm not worrying about if I'm going to have sustenance afterwards right something that could take my mind away from them being present in the moment so I love this idea of opening up the ways in which we already are attending to our mental health even though we don't know it like we have conditioned ourselves to think that oh that's not that's not the same thing and when in reality that's exactly what we're doing without formally acknowledging that that's what what it is which is thinking of what we need and doing what we need to do to make sure we can meet those needs that we have as I wonder if that's another entry point for folks in the goose community to start thinking about how they care for themselves and their mental health is like well how do you care for your mental health that shows you know you value and you spend a lot of time talent and treasure to see goose to see lots of other bands as well and you do a lot to make sure that you're able to be present and enjoy yourself and so how do you apply that same level of care and concern to the rest of your life also how do you extend that approach to the other things that you do in your life too I love that the one thing that at Fred Festival that Peter said one time is he's like you know put your phones down and be present and so that was quite a you know quite a while ago and from that from that point on I have put my phone down and started to be more present and that started at shows and then now it's gone to I turn my phone on do not disturb for 12 hours a day overnight and later in the evening and through the morning so that way that I have the evening with my children and my family and for myself that I can think of things that I can just have that relaxation time and then also in the morning so you're not getting bombarded by emails text messages things you just want to start your day on a fresh foot and not with those anxieties of the day of everything that's going to come through and so that has you know the goose band or the Jamly has helped me to become more present in my life and when I don't do those things it starts I start to feel you know just not as mentally healthy and you know just being present and working out and you know and well where I go on a walk there's a beautiful river it's you know so the water is going it's in the nature so it's just you're kind of getting two and one you know your nature and your walk in so it's just very peaceful so I found that putting my phone on do not disturb until I'm finished with my walk is the best is the best thing for me to do for my mental health and I think that's a thing that a lot of people can remember is hey there is do not disturb on phones because they tend to run our lives now and the anxieties that they give and so I highly suggest putting your starting out for a few hours and putting your phone on do not disturb and I think the reason why the phones are such an issue when we're doing that and you know trying to that the truth is and I'm not a don't pretend to be a neuroscientist by any means but my understanding is that the way our brain processes information that they really are one thing at a time that multitasking is a misnomer what's happening is if we're trying to do multiple things at the same time we're kind of ricocheting back and forth and you can just even the visual of that is your ping ponging it's not conducive to focus it's not conducive to calm it's not conducive to being grounded and so that by doing things just intentionally one thing at a time what am I paying attention to now does help to just calm our nervous system I think too I'd be remiss if I didn't say as a sociologist we've normalized that type of light you know doing a million things at once type of behavior in the US and in the West but it's a very Western construct right and so it's a very Americanized thing to feel like you're only being productive if you're doing multiple things and multitasking so that's not how most of the world lives you know and it's certainly not how our mind and body you know that's not how they were evolved to function best right and Hannah with you saying that when you you know go to third world countries or see photos of you know third world countries and people in it the people are so happy you know in every photo they're smiling and they're happy and they're thankful for the things that they have where as in America we've become so entitled and we feel that we have to have these things and if we don't have these things that this is not happiness and my husband and I were talking about that other night about how the Americans like I love to spend my Christmas is in other countries and I think that's why I'm here because it's so much fun and people are just actually celebrating the holiday together and in America you know they're measuring how many presents tall you know like oh I did a good job because my kids presence you know that they're this high they're this many feet high that that's how many presents that they have and so it's just such a different different way of thinking about things and I think that mental health has become extremely prevalent in the United States because everyone's thoughts are on what they have and what they don't have instead of you know being in the moment living in those memories and being able to put self focus on themselves and they're everyone's focusing on everyone else instead of focusing on themselves and what they need in their lives and you know in the present moment and so I think that that's a that's a big thing to be able to look in our lives and you know see what we need and to be able to put that first. Right and to accept that we are living in a particular culture we are living in a particular society we're not going to change that and we can add actually kind of exacerbate how much we're impacted by that negatively by feeling resentful by feeling like why and how come and wouldn't it be or we can say yes that is and now what I'm going to focus on what am I going to do inside my space and how am I going to create a life that's aligned with my values and to to accepting the things that I can't control that I can't change and then focus and be more effective in coming up with ways to move in the direction of what our path wants to be. Great way to put it I'm going to have to start doing that. Yeah and I think also there's I know you know in the work that I do in laboratory work a lot of the things we talk about is like we create the world we want to see and how we go about doing our work now so we sort of come from a position of we know the world we'd like to see and how we want to be with each other and so as we go about doing this work together we have to live in that moment still we have to like bring that energy into the space and treat each other the way we would if we were all free and we all have the things that we needed and operate from that kind of vantage point and I think you know the cultural thing is crucial in the context that you know we have lots to learn from other cultures that approach mental health differently that approach community differently I've been lucky enough to live outside the country multiple times but most recently in Argentina for a couple of years and one of the things that really struck me was the sense of community that I was able to experience there was so palpable that when we moved back here I was it was so jarring to me to not have a cradle of people that were constantly talking and constantly wanting to do things together spontaneously doing things together and also the ways in which affection was shown was so different you know it was very common to see male friends of any age holding hands walking down the street right this was a common common thing and so it was really drawing coming back to the United States and being like oh my goodness okay I've got to like rearrange myself and then also decide what am I going to do to make sure those things that I loved about living in Argentina and what about that culture how do I bring those things into my life and where what do I need what kind of community do I need to build to ensure that those things remain at the forefront and so for me it's like I love traveling because you get to see other cultures and see how they approach things differently and then you know what pieces of those things you bring back with you and affect your bubble and your circle and your people that you get to hang out with and spend time with so yeah all of that it's all complex and it's all wonderful because that's how life is complex and wonderful all at the same time so true Leslie great way of putting it and I think that's why the Jamly becomes such a so important in our lives is the sense of community that we have in the sense of what is it acceptance and love and just having each other's backs and I think that that's what the Jamly brings to our lives and the happiness that that brings and so it's that's why to me what you just said that's why it's important for me the Jamly so important for me is to have that in our lives Chelsea I wanted you to ask this question about life cycle because I think that was something I found really interesting about your bio as well June so I'll turn over to you Chelsea to do that so can you speak to the mental health over the life cycle so we're thinking about how they're such a large age range of people that go to shows and festivals and how does that impact seeking services and other things like that I have to say that that's something that I really personally enjoy so much about the whole scene is the diversity in the age range. I know that you know I feel like me just walking into the room is stretching that diversity a little bit which it's fine it's good it feels it feels really nice I think that's another facet of our society is that we are in kind of silos by ages two I'm not quite sure I don't know that there's an answer to that in particular except to say that different people and sometimes it's it's kind of there's the kind of normal you know developmental kind of things that people go through but not everybody there that that doesn't necessarily fit everybody's experience so I think sometimes people are feeling like okay by age 30 I should have it all figured out or you know an age whatever I shouldn't be feeling this way anymore I should have you know I should have my person by this age or whatever it is so I think that kind of letting go of and I guess this is out of your mind and into your life about kind of what your mind has told you is the right thing or the normal thing or the the what everybody is doing so therefore I need to do it too and to have some to tune into who I am where I happen to be in my life's journey and and what what the needs are and I think that definitely finding peers who are going through it so that we're not traveling by ourselves is helpful sometimes finding mentors who've been through it so we don't have to reinvent the wheel it also can be gratifying kind of to be at the other end of things and to be mentoring and supporting and helping to share one story with other people so I think that there are things that we can gain and things that we can contribute at all of the places in the lifespan and I think that that's also part of mental health is feeling like you are part of a community and that you're contributing in some way to a community I'm also big on having a mentor that's like younger than you especially with like mental health stuff because even you know I'm a like smack dab millennial in the middle and like when I hear younger people in their 20s and even teens talking about seeking services I think because they grew up in a more globalized context of like social media and stuff like that and seeing discourse about mental health in those spaces they sometimes are more comfortable being like hey I need help I need a therapist or I need to maybe be on medication and not something that you know I can still struggle with sometimes is articulating those things and so I'm just a huge proponent of that and that's one of the reasons why I really appreciate the jam scene because you can learn from these people who you know in a more traditional way who are of an older generation like my dad and I like the same music and that's really cool but then I also learned from like the young people of the world who are you know 24 25 years old like you know just their worldview is a little bit different I think and it helps me see the world in a better way than what I did before and I appreciate that a lot I think that's wonderful part of that that we all benefit from diversity I think we all that yeah all kinds of diversity to staying open minded and open heart you know and being having everyone you know I think it's important to be open minded and have an open heart towards everyone because my friends range from the 70s you know all the way down to the younger I think the I think one of them just turned like isn't even 21 yet you know and it's just such a wonderful thing to have all of these people in the music scene and everyone having that commonality and starting out with the music that were there for being being the commonality and then just growing your relationship from there and what you said Hannah and you know having mentors is so awesome and like you said Jim not having to reinvent the wheel you know having friends there to help guide you and then being there to help guide the younger ones and it really be helping that maybe it might not be someone needing help at that moment but then they might need help so what I'm observing about the conversation is that what we really have ended up talking about is the kind of self care and the kind of lifestyle and organic and holistic kinds of ways to promote our own and others mental health and well being and I appreciate that. Also just you know because I know that you did ask me kind of at the beginning about therapy and about therapists and that you know obviously just like when things go wrong with our bodies sometimes we can't you know holistic and self care isn't going to kind of get us the results that we need that and being able to and this is part of the acceptance accepting that you know what I'm in a place where I need to reach out and ask for help and it can be a challenge and that can create its own stressors related to lack of availability and all of the barriers to care you know related to the insurance industry and related to different states and regulations and rural versus urban areas and just under resourced parts of the country so it can be really challenging and that kind of persevering just using resources and that's where also not allowing the stigmatization to you know to keep us quiet about it and just doing it on our own but you know opening up to other people you know of anybody you know you know obviously asking one's primary care doctor asking other people in one's community for resources asking if you have insurance asking the insurance provider to help you find somebody sometimes at work there are EAP programs employee assistance programs or HR professionals who can help people to access services but to be a squeaky wheel and then also to know that like any other relationship not any two people are going to be the right fit for each other and that sometimes it takes some trial and error and finding somebody who feels like you can connect with and is kind of giving you answers giving responses that feel like they work for you that it's not one size fits all like they're definitely here people who I kind of try to sell meditation on practically everybody and but if somebody says you know what that's not for me that's okay you know Alexias as you were talking about your walks in the morning that you can informally practice mindfulness and I might go to when I'm walking or running is when I feel myself when I can observe myself to be kind of caught up in my head is I go to the birds I know and how astounded I am almost every time when as soon as I remind myself to listen to the birds like they're there is the nanosecond previous when I was in wherever my head was it was as if the birds didn't exist so I just digress I'm sorry about that but just there are different ways like finding somebody you're not trying to somebody to push you is a square per I get pagging around hold also I'm not obviously my neither of my degrees and titles me to prescribe medications but I and a lot of people and I very much respect will say I really don't want meds or I want to come off of my meds and that's part where my pragmatism kind of comes in is that for different people it takes something different to feel and function the way we want and this is where looking at what are my values how do I want to live my life who do I want to be and that whatever it takes to get there is right for that particular person and there's a you know so many different strategies so many different kinds of treatments so many different kinds of therapeutic relationships and really figuring out and all as well as substances and the way I even define substance abuse isn't by what people are taking or how much they're taking how frequently is is this helping the person to live in a life that's a live a life that's aligned with their values or is it getting in the way of that you know and a lot of that is just in the short term yeah it feels great I'm happy but wait a minute this is who I want to be and how I want to live my life it's not happening so if it takes meds to do that if it takes we're training from substances to do that it's not you know it's not about judging the approach it's not about judging the substance it's about what actually for any individual person creates helps to create kind of a life that is meaningful and vibrant and worth living I love you're saying about one second I love what you're saying about just going out of you know mining your network right when you're looking for a therapist and one thing I would love folks to do is like if you're in therapy like talk about it with your friends mention it to people because sometimes they won't know that you have a therapist that could be a resource even if they don't go to your therapist I know my therapist always is like I have referrals I can tell people to go to other folks as well so I think the more that folks know that you are in therapy and that you have a therapist that they'll see you as a resource to at least maybe start a conversation or have someone to ask a question about so I love that you mentioned that and I think we can help facilitate that network building by being more transparent about the fact that we aren't therapy and that we utilize therapy services as well as destigmatizing just like it's not shocking nobody feels stigma about the fact that I go to a doctor you know not that you didn't normalize that this is a serious about where I'm going at 3 o'clock today. Go ahead Anna. My trick and question is that I was one of those people June was talking about where I did not want to meditate and it felt very performative to me it felt like everyone in grad school does this for mindfulness and you have to too and I was like okay I'll do it but then like over time it's become a really great option for me as far as just checking in with my anxiety and stuff like that and I noticed a big difference so I think there's like something to be said for practicing something and not writing it off right away because if I had not continued doing it and just you know I thought it was performative and I was doing it because it was expected of me but then over time it became this tool in my toolbox of dealing with my anxiety and my depression and so sometimes you have to stick with stuff even if it's hard or even if it's out of your comfort zone and now I'm a huge advocate of meditating but like I won't like try to push it down people's throats because I was one of those people. I have to recommend another book just because I've got another one I just love that I'm a sucker for good book titles but Dan Harris 10% happier is pretty you know pretty pretty well known there's an app with for meditation and podcasts and all of that he wrote a book 10% happier is really well written very accessible but he wrote a sequel called meditation for Pigity Skeptons or mindfulness mindfulness I think for Pigity Skeptics which I love which kind of helps to just broaden the concept of what meditation is what it can be whatever you're coming into it with that makes it challenging kind of a way to accept yeah no you don't have to do it this way you can do it this way this can work for you I will tell people so 10% happier and then I think it's mindfulness for Pigity Skeptics or meditation I found it and I have definitely have to see but I don't have a great title I did it's really so good and it's really it's a very accessible user friendly very kind of a conversational kind of a book yes I feel seen by that title so we want to be mindful of your time so just really quickly if you could have our listeners take one thing away from our conversation about music and the mental health the art sector the music scene and mental health stuff what would that take away be I know that's a tall order yeah no pressure being there you know when when you're listening to music whether you're on your own or whether you're going to at a show just being there connecting with people who share interests and passions that you have put down your phone and just like as wise man Peter says I guess you're on the spot for one take away I guess that's the best I can do sorry no no that's I think you can never hear that enough and I appreciate that you incorporated both like mental health stuff and mindfulness stuff with parts of being at a show and stuff like that and I know like for me as I know about what you said Leslie about getting ready like lining up everything so if it doesn't happen because we can't control all those things all the time getting out of our head and how it would have could have should have been it would have been better if and okay I'm here now take a breath and be there that's what the ladies room convals are all about literally when something happens like ladies room we have a meeting we're going to shake it off and we're going to get back into you know the headspace we want to be in and support each other to be able to do that so absolutely I like take that away in my everyday life because like when I'm doing events and stuff like that on campus and like in higher ed things never go the way you're like everything is so bureaucratic and plan but things don't ever go the way it's supposed to and so like taking that away and being like hey like I can't control these things what can I control or like what what can I change about this situation so I feel like it's like transferable to other aspects almost all other aspects of your life really so I appreciate that. I agree with you Hannah always find the silver lining and like what you can what you can take away from it because you can always learn a lesson somewhere and there's a silver lining somewhere and if you find that silver lining it makes life a whole lot easier and instead of being negative about everything to find the positive and the positive the one positive part of what has happened. Even if it's the lesson you learned from it whatever that might be that could be I always talk about that all the time I may not be able to find the greatest in the situation but whatever lesson I was able to glean from it and take forward you know as always I also just want to add one thing to that therapy taught me is like there's also space for like anger or upset you know what I mean it's just like like if something isn't going well like you don't have to be like this hippie dippy like everything is fine you know right like Acknowledges feelings but then learning how to deal with them like I like to say therapy taught me how to unlearn anger. My dad was raised in an angry household and that's how he showed his, like he would yell and he would scream and I had a partner for a long time who would just stop me and she would be like. You cannot communicate this way when you're upset and so I went to like I was in and out of therapy at that time and I started going more regularly to unlearn how to communicate my feelings when I'm upset or something really needs to be addressed because it's not going right. So I think that's the other sort of begin in the yank of that is like, yes, find silver lining but like be okay with your feelings when, yeah. Well that's that's the exception I mean accepting that with the feelings are the feelings control that what we can control is what we do with the feelings how we cope with them what we what behaviors what comes out of our mouths. And so, that's, I will stop with my last last words. June, thank you so much for joining us. Really, this is just a wonderful conversation. Thank you for lending your expertise and taking some time out of your definitely busy schedule to come and spend time with the four of us we can't thank you enough. And we of course don't want to take up too much of your time so we're going to go ahead and let you go please help them we said hello and thank you again for joining us we were just we love you we are so grateful and so hopefully we'll see you in a show soon. Tell rich and Micah hey too. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks again to June, again for joining us. I meet y'all what gems what brilliance and what ease of conversation and really helping us kind of dig deeper into some difficult topics and also some topics that she helped us see aren't as difficult as we may think they are right. I loved I loved everything about the conversation was so grateful. As always we also want to hear from you we have a voice mail line set up for all good chicks and fans to share their experiences with goose and the jam and scene and even if you have a commentary about your own mental health and how you've been dealing with mental health in this time. Give us a call at 704 275 31 to eight to leave us a message and might get played on the show. It's a podcast is produced by Leslie Mack with support from sound engineer Matt wire co host Alexis repo and contributors Chelsea long and handle the bridge that's me. Special thanks to our sponsor Ben and Jerry's for their support specially Jay curly Jay Tandon and their entire team. We are a proud member of the Osiris media family. You can check us out on our socials at goose chicks pod and on our website goose chicks pod.com, including our very first merch shop available now check it out. And remember to subscribe and leave us a review in your favorite podcast app. Also tell a friend about the show. It really helps us out. Don't forget to color and number and leave us a message 704 275 31 to wait until next time. Be kind to each other out there and remember to keep it 10. Bye. Bye. I'm sorry. .