Musical Healing with Dr Leah Taylor & Taraleigh Weathers from Groove Therapy

A service. Welcome to another episode of Goose Chicks Podcast, an all women led show. Focus on the band Goose and the community that supports them. I'm Leslie Mack, producer and co-host. This week we are joined by Tara Lee and Leah from Groove Therapy Podcast to talk about how live music helps our mental health and how we can help destigmatize mental health needs at shows and in our lives. But before that, I have Alexias and Chelsea with us. And yeah, I mean, we all just got back from this five night historic run at the cap. We haven't had time to dissect it. We're going to probably next week. So don't expect any deep dives right now. But just how are y'all doing? How is reintegration going for you? I know it's been a little rough. Some of us are sick. Luckily, nobody on our crew has COVID or anything. But I got a little, you all can probably hear my voice is a little scratchy. But I've been getting better every day since I've gotten back. So I'm on the mend. I was talking earlier and I said it felt a little jarring to kind of be ripped away after five full days of this kind of togetherness. And also it was great because we all were there together and we got to spend time in between sets and in the bathroom. The ladies room is the best at Guizhou's y'all. And yeah, so yeah, I'm missing you all. And so I'm wondering how are you all are doing? How are you doing, Chelsea? I'm good. I think I'm recovering and that was a long run that I don't think I was quite prepared for and just different for me in terms of being around so many people and talking to so many people and really socially heavy for me for a run. So that took a lot of me too. So I'm just trying to take time to reflect and restore myself. And I'm really excited to hear from Tara, Leah and Leah because I'm sure they have some great tips on that. For sure, and I dragged Chelsea up to the rail for the Osiris event so she saw her post a Ray below show right up front, which was very exciting. How was it for you, Chelsea? Was it? Oh my gosh. Yeah, what was it like? Oh, that was really amazing. I'm really thankful that I got to be so close. I was right there in the front and then seeing a Ray below, I'm just like, why have I not why have I been sleeping on a Ray below? Honestly. When I watched them, I was like, obviously, this is amazing. Obviously, I've listened to them before, but now that I've been home, I've just been listening to it Ray below. So I'm definitely jumping on that train. So yeah, I will be seeing them again. They're a good goose gateway for people too. If people don't know about goose, I'm like, hey, check this out first. Like listen to these acoustic songs and then you get a little flavor and then you can come and listen to some deeper goose cuts. How about you, Alexias? How are you doing? I'm still trying to integrate back. I still feel just absolutely exhausted. I didn't get much sleep last week. And so still trying to gain that back this week. But I mean, say absolutely exhausted, but still just absolutely on cloud nine floating in the air. Like, was that real? Was that, you know, did we really go through that? Or was that just a wonderful dream that I had? And you know, we're still waiting for it to come up. So still just, you know, still just living the, living the high life of it and, you know, and kind of, and just like, oh, did that happen? Did that happen already? And then also being like, oh my gosh, that happened. Like here we go. We're running back. I need to figure out what dates because I think we have less than a week to. Yeah, like next Thursday we leave for Philly. So that's coming up really quickly. For those who don't know, Alexia's worked so hard during this run, y'all. You do not understand. She shot Friday night show. She shot Friday night's after show with Becky and Peter during the after show as Ripka Ruth and Space Panther. And she shot Saturday night show. She shot the Osiris event on Sunday and Sunday night show. So let me tell y'all, she was going. I literally was just like taking pictures of you, Alexia's, because I was like, wow, you're really putting in so much work this weekend in addition to like enjoying the show too. But I just was really impressed to see it and so kudos to you because that's a lot of work to do, like a lot. Thank you very much. So it's a lot of work to do, but it's also just a lot of love. Like, I love, you know, obviously I love photography. And the, a lot, a big fun part of it though is, you know, I love everyone. And so being the, being able to do the photography, do my passion with like my favorite music, you know, is absolutely amazing. And then being able to see all my goose fam, like see all my rail riding fam and then my family that's not rail riders, you know, and getting to go around and just dance with everyone and getting to meet new people. So it's literally, it's, it's a lot of work, but it's a lot of fun. Like I'm always trying to find the silver lining. And I don't, I don't, the only thing that's a little bit hard about it is just finding the time to sleep and because you're just like so amped up, you're like, Oh, I've got all these photos. I've got to get through them and you can only get through a few that you can put out. And, you know, so it's, I think I'm still like exhausted and everything just because I still have so much energy. Like I still have so many great photos and just like going through them and, you know, like, I'm just like, honey, you need to sleep at some point in time. You really need to sleep. And I'm like, I know, I know. But I'm, I'm excited. I'm still still on it. Still all about it, but exhausted all at the same time. It's so true. And the photos you've posted so far have been amazing. And so I'm sure you have so many more, but yeah, they're already amazing. So I'm excited to see more too. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. I went and did the recap of Friday night show with the almost always their podcast crew on Saturday, which was really fun. But it was funny we were doing the recap and we all were, Ryan and I were going to the show. And so we're like, okay, let's wrap it up. We got to get to the venue. So it was pretty funny just like in that moment with all of them to just be like, yeah, yeah, look, great show last night. And also we got to get back to the show now. But it was great. I'll make sure there's a link to that. It was really fun being on their show and recapping the show with them. Check it out. So we have our normal running segments. I'm not going to break down any songs this week, but I did want to shout out the fact that we got not one, not two, but three freshies during the cap run, which y'all, I mean, my husband put it put a 2.5. That was what he said, we went a half songs was the over under and he took the over. His friend Michael, who you've heard on the show, took the under. And today we got in the mail, $3 in the mail. That was what they bet. Because grew one with the over with the three and we got not alone on the ninth. We got lead up on the 10th and feel it now on the 11th. I'm still digesting all of them. What were y'all thoughts on these new tunes? I'm really obsessed with feel it now. Yeah, absolutely obsessed with it. It's how I felt with the first time I heard that. Just like this song is so, so good. And I mean, the other two are great too. I'm not. This isn't a like hierarchy. I'm just noting that that one really like connected with me and instantly. So just curious what y'all thought too. Yeah, I'm definitely connecting with feel it now as well. It's just fun like upbeat, dancy kind of, but they had a really good jam too that I liked. And also the lyric, you're allowed to feel it now. Like it just, it goes perfectly with what we're talking about today too. And that line just like hits me. It's just brilliant. And it's so simple. I really like that. Yeah. I love that. I'm really brilliant. Yeah. Yeah, I am totally, I'm liking all of them. I'm still just decompressing all of it and listening to all of it. And I think that they're all great. And I think they're all great and I'm excited to see where they go further from here. You know, because I think pretty much like the only song that came out in the last year that was like blow your, blow your mind out. Like when it was first played was animal. And then, you know, they, they just built and built and built on the other ones to where some of them are even better than that. So I'm really excited to see, you know, next week in Philly, like how that they're going to, how that they're going to up it. Because I'm pretty sure that they'll play one of them. And I mean, you know, they're going to play one of them over. So I'm excited to see how that they build on this and how that they go. But the feel it now is definitely just the what, what I'm in. And like you said, Chelsea, what we're in and a big important message of making sure that we, that we feel the moment that we're in. So I'm, so I love that one right now. Definitely if I had to choose a favorite, that would, that would be the one. And I don't know, not alone was a, was a big, big one that hit me. Yeah. So in the moment, like not alone, seeing it live was really special. I think just when it hits that course and it's just like, you're not alone. You're not alone. It's just, yeah, that was, that was really cool. Like, I'm definitely going to definitely. I'm definitely going to say I definitely cried on that one for sure. Definitely brought a tear of just like, you know, being there in the sea of people that we love and the, you know, the chosen family that we have and, you know, for not alone to come on and brings like a little just happy joyous tear to the eye right now and gave me chills when we were there. And it was just such a special thing and just to look around and just see everyone. And that song I definitely did just like, look up and saw just everyone there and just how it was a beautiful, a beautiful moment for me to look up and see everyone. And just the way that my head was turning and stuff and just knowing that we're not alone, that we're, that we're all together and then we get a fillet now, you know, and it's just, just the beautiful messages that, that we get from that, you know. So I'm definitely excited about it. I loved them. Yeah, definitely. And it was interesting. I took note of how we, the community experiences freshies this time. I've seen many, quite a few new songs last year, obviously they debuted so many, but I was really paying attention to how focused we all are when we realized it's a new song and not a cover and not when we've heard before. Like we all were into the music, but we're just like very like, okay, what is Rick saying? What are these lyrics? What are we supposed to get from this? Like everybody was just really trying to like be in the moment. And to get that three times in five days was just like a lot, so much to experience together was just a whole lot. Also this week, of course, the goose cannot let off the pedal. Fall tour was announced just a couple of days ago. And they're doing a couple of shows in New York, including a borderland festival in Buffalo and then some Midwest dates. But the majority of them are out on the West Coast, which is great because y'all have been yearning for some more dates. So all you left coast folks, good, good on you, love to hear it. They're doing Buffalo Detroit, Milwaukee, Salt Lake City, Missoula, Spokane, Oakland, two nights at the Fox Theater. That's going to be amazing. Santa Barbara, Las Vegas at Brooklyn Bowl, Flagstaff and then not one, but two Red Rock dates. I have a feeling they're like a third, but that's just like I have. I think they're going to add the seventh on. We'll see. I think if these two sell out, there's nobody playing on that date. So that's just why I'm inferring that. I think there may be another show added on. So that's very exciting and all the Goose chicks pod crew will be at the two Red Rock shows. So that's going to be really fun. Red Rock is amazing, generally speaking, but Goose at Red Rock's. Now we're talking about like next level. Goose at Red Rock's and then Goose chicks pod at Red Rock's. Right. I think it's so- I'm really excited about this. Me too. I missed the August one. Well, then it'll- it'll- oh yeah, it's exciting. I love the rice because you can bring your food in, you can have good food, healthy food there. Like all the little things about that venue, just I love all of those things about it. You know, I always go to like a nice bakery, have like fresh bread, nice like food to eat. And I love that about it. You can bring your whole picnic in there. It's the best. It's a great idea. I think, you know, it's funny because before we went, you know, how we were talking about usually through a run, they do a big announcement of like, oh, here are tickets and you're spending a ton of money anyway. You know, and it's like, oh, well, bam, here you go. An exciting thing. And so- and then we were talking about freshies and, you know, trying to guess like how many, you know, new songs that we'll have. And I think we were like, I don't know, between like three and six- or I can't remember like when it was. But then when we get back and they didn't do the announcement while we were in the cab, I think it was hilarious that they did it the next day. And because we- we had been talking about that and it's like, okay, well, everyone- we hear everyone saying, you know, going through, you know, a big run and then they just waited, you know, they waited and then like, okay, we're going to do it the next day. But I was definitely- I was definitely grateful for that because it was, you know, it was a couple of days and you're like, all right, well, we can work this in. It's not right in the middle of a run and stuff. But yeah, I know I'm very excited for West Coasters to get it. I know I've already gotten messages from people like, well, why didn't they put Washington in? Why didn't they do this? Is something wrong? Is something- well, eight people? I do not do the booking. I absolutely were guessing just as much as you were getting. Just as much as you are. I'm always outside of board just like everybody else. We don't have insider knowledge here. They just are inference of things. There are a few dates that are still grayed out. The 13th and 14th of September, the 24th of September, 28th and 30th of September. So there are dates out there that they'll be performing that they haven't announced the exact venue in cities yet. But also they are going to Oregon. They are going out to Eugene on this run on the spring tour. So there's a few days, but I know California was not feeling all the love. This person was from Washington, D.C. and I was like, hey, down here's down in North Carolina at all. That's exactly what I said. I was like, we haven't gotten any in North Carolina. There's a whole like another segment to the year. And also we have to remember we cannot be greedy and just think that everything's going to come to us. There's markets that they still have to develop and they started developing that one more so last year. And also last year, 2022 was a big year and they were in a run. So not everyone needs to expect that it's going to be like that nonstop. And everyone also needs to remember that these are young guys that are starting their families. The one coach has a child. So everyone's like getting into this place and they also have lives. So let's not be greedy and think that they don't have lives and that their sole reason to life is to be here to entertain us. That's me. I want them back in the studio anyways because we need a new album. There's too many new songs out here that haven't been put on vinyl yet. And I want them in a studio version. So I really want them to have some time to be able to do that. And because look at the waves that they've been able to ride from the drip peel album. I think this next album will be even bigger in terms of the sound that the songs they have to choose from. I mean, 22 last year that most of them are not on an album at all. We have three new ones already this year that are potentially on the new album. So I also want to leave them space. Rick talks so much about needing to be in a meditative quiet, not isolated but a specific space in order for the songs to come out in lyrics and music. And so we need that too. That's part of the magic of goose is giving them that time to be creative and to be artists the way that they want to be. And also pursue their other stuff. I noted that Ben is going to be playing after during jazz fest with Joel Cummings from Unfreeze. They're doing a show in New Orleans together which is amazing. So all of that stuff I think is really great for all of them to be able to pursue their creative endeavors. It only makes goose stronger. It only makes the music better. So yeah, give us a really room folks. I mean, right. The epilogue was pretty freaking amazing. And boards are up. So please make sure you go check that out. Shout out to Peter. Sound fucking impactable. That sounded impactable truly. I appreciated the extra days that took to get them up because it was clearly well worth it. Just beautiful. All right, fan hour spotlight. I want to shout out Caroline Herbster who is the owner of Rising Tide Art Studio. First of all, if you saw the El Guz Times from the cap from the cover, which was sort of a play on a New Yorker cover, New York, New York, New York Magazine. Which had picked in the Capitol Theater on Port Chester and many people within the goose community on it. Caroline was the artist who drew that cover. She also, I think they're sold out now, but she had prints that she was selling posters with them. And I got to meet her in person at the show. But not only did I get to meet her on the last night, she was standing right behind me and she had a sketchbook out. And I'm looking back at her and I'm like, what is she doing? I was like very confused. And I said, do you want to switch with me for a minute? And I was like, kind of wanted to see what she was doing. She's like, yeah, so I put her on the round and I sat behind her. And she was doing what she refers to as live art. I'm going to read from her website here. When music leads her, Caroline creates live art at concerts, festivals and events. You can check out pictures and videos on IG as she prepares to put out her 2022 collection for prints. Each work captures the essence of each set. She begins by dancing and grounding herself in the moment before illustrating the scene in pen or pencil. She starts by placing the stage and environment on paper. Once her perspective and setting are present, she then illustrates the musicians and their instruments. And she likes to focus on drawing each band member during their solos, channeling their musical energy and movement into their imagery. Finally, she uses a travel watercolor palette to bring the illustration to life, adding color to each element in the scene and showcasing the stage lights as they bloom. By the end of the set, she likes to conclude the piece. And occasionally, she'll complete a piece after the event while listening or watching a recording of the show. Sometimes she uses live creations to inspire additional works. And it was amazing to watch her do this in real time, like right in front of me. You can all have the links to it's at Rising Tide Art Studio on IG and it's risingtideartstudio.com to check it out, but I was really just floored by watching someone translate this musical experience and this communal experience into a visual art form like in the moment. It was really something to watch. And so shout out to Caroline. Thanks for being so open to talking with me about your process. The one that she did for that night was so cool. She drew a little honey bee and then there was an arrow. Like all the little details of it, I just found really fascinating and amazing. And I would have never thought of that being a thing, but it is doing this amazing thing and translating it. So shout out to her. I don't know if you know. I was just like, wow, really. So yeah, I had no idea that that's who she was. And I didn't know that we were doing a spotlight this week. And I was outside the crowd most of the time outside the bowl. And somehow the one point that I get into the bowl, I end up standing behind her and I just I don't even know how, but I just like, oh, I think she like brought it out for a little bit and she was showing and I was like, oh, that's amazing. And then towards, I see it like towards the end of towards the end of the night and everything I see the whole thing. And I'm just like, how did this chick do this? This is absolutely insanely amazing. So talented. She did this in the middle of a sea of people, you know, that I can't even barely move. And it was incredible. I mean, I'm just truly speechless for how amazing that this was and how honestly it's still, I just don't see how she did it. And it's so incredible. So it's just, it's the most beautiful sketch, you know, drawings and just of getting that moment getting the, you know, she does an amazing job of seeing of getting the piece of our or getting her paint, her drawing to express the way that we were feeling, express the way that it was on stage and just kept capturing all of that in a drawing through the middle, through the middle of a big concert where she's also enjoying. And so it just, it's, it's amazing. Really 100% check it out because you will be floored in how amazing that these pieces are. And this was, I had no idea who she was. No, I didn't get anything. And it just ended up, you know, with you saying this, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I saw her and I saw what she did. You know, and so it was, it was literally just by chance that I ran into her, saw her at the beginning of the night, saw her at the end of the night and saw the, the collect, you know, how it came together and just very impressive, very amazing work. And definitely everyone check it out because that I don't think I've ever seen a talent, anything like it. She's one of a kind on this, y'all, one of a kind. Yeah. And I never would have thought of someone doing that at a show, but it's really amazing. I saw it posted the finished product like on Facebook and one of the groups afterwards. And I was just like, wow, it like blew my mind. I was like, what? So yeah, we had to go Carolyn. Yeah, we love you. She also is a big fan of the show. She came up and introduced herself. So I got to talk with her a little bit. And so thanks for listening us all. Also, Caroline will have links to all that. Make sure you support all of her work. And again, that's Rising Tide Art Studio. All right, we are going to take a quick break and we come back. We're going to have Dr. Leo Taylor and Tara Lee Weathers from Groove Therapy Podcast. We're going to get into a lot of stuff, y'all. So we'll be right back. ♪ I want to be the winter's day ♪ ♪ Close to the blue, won't you ♪ ♪ I want to stay so long ♪ ♪ But winter is dying ♪ ♪ I know it's the last time ♪ ♪ I ain't crying ♪ ♪ Oh, run loud ♪ ♪ I know it's the last time ♪ Welcome back, everyone. I'm so excited as we mentioned at the top of the show. We have the co-hosts of the Groove Therapy Podcast with us. We have Tara Lee Weathers, who is a professional ex-professional cheerleader for the MBA, a certified health coach and yoga teacher, who is a playful lady with ADHD. She loves going to live music shows and festivals, and she's created an amazing life where she travels a world. Co-hosts the premiere, that's right, premiere health wellness and live music podcast on the Osiris Network Groove Therapy, and gets to go to a lot of music shows and festivals. And she also gets to rock out with her hip-hop band, The Middle Ages, and her husband. They live in a beautiful place, and they do work that is passionate and lucrative and fun. We also have Dr. Leah Taylor with us, the other host of Groove Therapy, who is an integrative mental health specialist, who helps you let go of stress, overwhelm, and struggle to levelize of ease, pleasure, and joy. I'm going to say that one more time. A life of ease, pleasure, and joy. Those are like magical words to me. She has a PhD in Mind, Body, Medicine, and a master's in somatic psychology and is passionate about researching, speaking about and teaching live music and movement as medicine. She's also the creator of Embodied Groove. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Good Chicks Podcast, Leah. And Terri, thank you so much for being here. Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much for having us. No, I've been wanting to talk to you guys, because I've been listening to your show. I'm so intrigued by all of the guests you've had on and kind of these entry points for live music, mental health. And I like to say stability, but more centering yourself, right, in a moment and expanding that. So we're going to get into some of those questions, but I wanted to start off with like when and how did you get into jam band music specifically? Was there a specific spark that happened for you, or was it more gradual? We'll start with you, Leah. OK, well, I will say, I want to mention two points. One happened at the House of Blues when I was 18 years old. I just graduated from high school, was with some girlfriends celebrating our graduation, went to a show. It was a rusted root show, which I don't know if people would necessarily consider to be part of the jam band scene. But that was the first, and I had seen live music before. My dad owned a music store. I went and saw Bon Jovi with him when I was eight years old, like I've been to concerts. But that rusted root show was the first show where my body was like taken by the music. And I felt like I was just like burst open and totally rearranged. And it was definitely a transcendent experience. And so from that show, I then went to college a couple months later, and that's when I found fish. And I had been listening to fish before that. My friends had tapes that I had listened to. I was listening to the Hoist album a lot, but I had never seen them live. And when I went to my first fish show in Raleigh in 1998, well, I actually, it's a long story of why I wasn't totally present for that show. I don't know if we need to get into that. But it was a whole scene of it. It was just all of a sudden this little box that my southern good girl self had been taught to be in because I grew up in North Carolina. It was like the top just was blown off of that. And I was like, oh, my God, there is a whole other world out there. And there's this music because I've always been a dancer. And just like being taken by the music is one of my most favorite things ever. And so fish really, that happened for me. And then I was just in love ever since then. So it was rusted root and fish that brought me to the scene. I love that one too, because sometimes you can have a moment of epiphany. And then it comes back around the next time you have that same experience, right? It's like, wait, this is that thing I felt before. Only it's bigger now. Only it's more. Only I'm really ready for it because I had this little peak earlier on. So I kind of love that little evolutionary experience of that. And yeah, I started listening to fishing on officials around that same time in the late 90s. And had a very similar experience of just it being like, wait, there's this autonomous zone created where I can just be as free as I want to be. And what that meant to me in my regular quote unquote regular life, right? How that affected me. So yeah, I really resonate with a lot of that. Terrell, how about you? I know you also started with fish, I believe. Yeah. I mean, I always love live music for my Tiffany and new kids on the blog concert that I went to first. I still go to the camera blog concert. So let me just say that. They're amazing. Great show. Just FYI. Yes. Yes. Let's please go together. I want to go on their cruise actually. And then I was really into like kind of grunge, like alternative music in high school. But then when I went to college, I got invited to a frat party. I went to university of South Carolina and it was Sigma Chi and the guys were really cute and they were really into this band Fish. And I was like, what is this? And then I was like, I actually really like this. And then I went, I had a dance, I was a dancer and I had a dance competition in North Carolina. And I went to my first fish show by myself. And so it was in Charlotte, North Carolina. I remember just walking on the lot and I was like, what is happening? What is this patchwork? Like grilled cheese, like for two for a dollar, people are hacky sacking. And then I went to the show and I was like, there is a crazy drummer and a dress that is like playing the vacuum and they jumped on the trampolines. And I just was like, what is happening? And I want to do this every day for the rest of my life. And that pretty much got me. I got you hooked. I love that. Especially that era of fish was so creative. So I almost liken it to like a circus a little bit in terms of their approach to entertaining because they would do these like wacky things, these off the wall things. You never knew what to expect. And it was so exciting. And especially when they were doing all the festivals that they put on just for themselves, you know, in Lemon Wheel and Big Cypress in particular, which was my top fish experience. Just remember being like, wow, these guys are really about creating an experience for their fans. That's really detail oriented and very much about how we all can have a communal experience together. And for me, that's kind of what opened up my love of Jam Bands. Generally speaking was just that notion that we were meant to experience something together. That won't be the same ever again. It only happened this one time. The song will only get played this exact way this one time. And it's humbling in some ways, you know, as an audience member to be like, wow, I got to experience this thing with all these people and forever we'll have that communal experience that we just had together. Awesome. Thanks for giving us a little background. So I wanted to pivot first to talk a little bit about group therapy podcast, which is on Osiris along with us. And yeah, I wanted you to, how did the show come about with the two of you? And what were the initial goals with the show that you all really wanted to bring to the forefront? It was to take this, Charlie. Do you want to start? Sorry, maybe. Well, okay, I can start and you can fill in. So, Charlie actually reached out to me about doing a creative project together. And so we were kind of in talks about like partnering up on something else. And then, but at the same time, we were both pursuing having our own podcast. So, Charlie had already been given the go ahead for most Iris to do a podcast on the network. And I approached Osiris and said, you know, I really want to do a podcast and this is what I have in mind. And it turned out that they kind of said, well, why don't you guys do one together? And so we talked about it since we were already planning on doing this project together. And we said, we were like, yeah, that let's do it. And it was in 2020. So as we all know, live music was not happening. I was like already on a mission to kind of bring consciousness to the experience of live music because I do see it as being like this huge vehicle for healing. And I feel like if we can just kind of like harness its power and a conscious and intentional way that like there's just so much more that we can experience from it. And I know we get so much, but like that's just my mission is to like, how can we use these vibrations to like heal ourselves and the whole world? And so whoever I could talk to about that, like that's what I want to do. So I think that for me was the goal of our podcast was just to like get my message out and to get these concepts out and to talk to other people about it, to talk to musicians about it, to just like have the conversations. And of course, Terri Lee was like the only other person that I knew that was talking about this. It was like kind of speaking the same language that I was as far as, you know, this is such a transformative experience. And Terri Lee had, you know, has written a book about how to rock your life. And so, you know, her focus as far as I could tell at that time was like really on how do we take this experience and also put it into our everyday lives so that it's not just, you know, that we have to keep coming back to this, which is amazing. But like, actually we can experience this and we can have an amazing life too. It doesn't have to be either or like it can be both and. So yeah. And Don Jenkins was also a big catalyst of that who at that time, I think was the only female posted podcast on Osiris with female centrics. And so Terri Lee and I had both reached out to Don to say, hey, we like what you're doing. We want to do this too. And so she, she was a really big person that helped us just get it going. Love that also. Shut up to all the Osiris women just are, did a great job of shutting all of us out last week. But, you know, amazing Megan and Don, as you mentioned, it's just been so wonderful to see more of us and our voices lifted up in the network and it's been really fun. Terri Lee, yeah. So yeah, you started doing this, came into this great origin story, which I love of you coming together outside the podcast world and then bringing that into the podcast space. And so those first initial shows, what was that like? You know, did it click immediately? Was it like, okay, we run to something. Yeah, what was that like in the origins? Yeah, I mean, there was definitely like a learning curve just with technology and figuring out exactly. I would say like we had the base of our message, but then like really being able to like hone in on that and figure out exactly like how we want to talk about that definitely developed throughout the time. And I feel like like we were a little like scattered at first and now it feels like it's like way more focused. And so it's like anyone who's starting anything, you know, like at first it's like like when someone's like, oh, I want to listen to your podcast, I'm like, well, maybe start at episode 30. And then once you like us, then go back to the beginning. We'll be passing us when we're going to be live. I'm like, we'll be live when we're ready. Like we're still putting the pieces together and finding our rhythm and every episode gets better. But it is about kind of letting that process unfold itself, right? Chelsea, how's it been for you? Yeah, I remember we kept asking Leslie, like, because she's the only one that's done it before, you know, like, what do we do? Do you have tips? Like, you know, and she's just like, no, just as we go, we'll learn and we'll build, you know, and that's really how it's been to is you just get more comfortable as you go and find your message. Yeah, I didn't want to impose some sort of like structure on folks. I want, you know, people's natural voices to come out. And so I think that's the trick of being a good podcaster is allowing your natural voice and also allowing other folks natural voices to emerge and not getting the way of that. The pockets I never like are always the ones that are like, okay, food in this box. These are the, this is how you have to sound. I just don't connect that way. And so yeah, for me, that was a constant like, is it going to be okay? It'll be great. It'll be great because you're great and we'll figure out how we all fit together and we've slowly found, you know, some grooves that work for us. I'm curious if there are some specific lessons that you all have learned from guests over the seasons that you wanted that really stick out for you that you wanted to mention to folks. I always go back to the Reed Mathis, which he ends up being two episodes. So one thing we learned is that we should ask if anyone has a hard out like a time they need to be done because we were actually talking about time travel, which is really funny. And all of a sudden he was like, I have a lesson right now. Bye. So that was a lesson, but also I love he talked a lot about like attachment and how you have to really trust a band and trust the people in the room to have a really powerful experience. And that's why bands like Fish and Goose, we trust those musicians and like Reed, like I so trust him. Like he's going to bring me to a crazy place when I go see him play and I am for it because I fully trust him. So just like seeing that trust and it's like a holistic trust, like it's not just the band, it also is the crowd, the venue, like the people who you're hanging out with, all of it is a part of it. So I felt like that was a really cool thing. I mean, I knew that, but hearing him reflect it in his amazing genius way was really cool. Love that. Yeah. Yeah, I'll say that that piece of like safety from Reed has come up so many other times and other episodes and so that's been really cool because I think he was like one of the I know he was in the first 10. I'll say to one another one that stands out to me is the Lebow episode. So Dan Lebowitz, he has he had this shirt that I had seen and it said discipline. Okay, so actually I'll have to kind of describe it to you. It's like three different circles, right? And you know when three different circles come together and then there's like that piece in the middle where they all they actually it's two different circles. Two circles come together. There's a piece in the middle where they intersect. And so there was one circle. So it's a graphic. It said one circle that said surrender. The other said discipline and in the middle it said flow. And so when I saw that shirt and wearing it, I was just like, because Lebowitz was one of my favorite musicians and he lives in the various ways. So I see him all the time. I was like, oh my God, that's it. Because you know, there's a whole ton of research out there about flow theory and it's like so heady and there's so many like different things that have to be present for it to happen. But that one graphic, I was just like, that's it. That's it. Like discipline and surrender. And when you have both of those, there's this experience of flow that can happen. So he came on the podcast and talked about that. And I feel like we've also come back to that lesson a lot of times. I love that. I resonate with that also so much. Chelsea, you seem like you did too. I heard your own sound. Yeah, I know. I'm always constantly searching for the flow, I guess, of just an everyday life of just being intuitional and following your instincts and that sort of thing. And I think that's really powerful. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, that makes me think a lot. So. It is like Leah is like all like your discipline is easy for you and surrender is easy for me. So it's also like knowing like which one comes naturally to you and which one do you have to work at is like it's an interesting thing. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, because there is it almost would from the outside you think they were fighting with each other. But really the flow part is about allowing them to coexist right and not see it as conflict in within yourself and out in the world as well. They both have a place. They both have a reason for being there and that intersectional piece where you say flow exists is where we're always trying to, you know, shimmy ourselves into a writer or more than a person to you. And especially in live music too, you know, I think it's been like we've talked about this with other musicians as well. It's like you have to have that discipline of the practice and the practice and the practice, but you also have to be able to surrender your ego and just like step out of the way. And when both of those can come together, that's when the magic happens. Love it. Love it. Love it. Alexis, did you have some ad? I didn't want to cut you off. I'm just, you know, I'm just over here just like, yes, this is this is exactly and I feel like a lot of us are looking for that right now and figuring out like what we're, what's going on in our lives, especially coming out of winter and, you know, goose, you know, just being back on the road and a lot of us have just been lost. And so just to just to hear all this, I'm just over here just, yes, this is, this is what we meet. This is exactly right. And, and that is just trying to find the flow of life is the hard part for everyone. So I'm over here with my note taking and taking notes on this because I'm like, this is definitely what I need. So that's, that's why I've been quiet is because I'm just over here just like taking notes like, yes, this is exactly right. This is awesome. So I wanted to have asked you both about, you know, how do you describe the mental health benefits of live music? I know we talk about it on the show a lot about how it affects us individually, what how it helps our mental health, how it helps us, um, recenter, come back to ourselves often and also connect with other people on a really deep level. But I want to hear from both of you what, what are those benefits? How tangible are they and how do you describe them when people ask you about it? Yeah, I'm going to let Leah start this one because this is definitely her specialty and with all the research that she's done. Yeah, I actually had the pleasure of focusing my PhD research on the experience of live music and how it relates to wellbeing. So I got to speak to eight other kind of passionate live music fans and I was one. Yes. I think I'm supposed to be anonymous. Yes. Um, yeah. So it, what, the way that I like to kind of like break it down is with three words, which is release, right? So we use it as a release to like let go of everything that's happening in our everyday. We use it as an opportunity to like realign ourselves with what's truly important in our lives. And it's not about all the stuff that we can accumulate. It's like about the experiences that we can have and the connection that we feel and all of the emotions that we get to experience in live music. And it's also about the recharge because, you know, we use it as like our filling of our cup and it's like, okay, you know, I'm going to go to a show. I'm going to dance it all out. I'm going to leave it all on the dance floor. I'm going to realign myself and remember what's truly important in this life. And then I'm going to just charge myself up as much as possible so that when I do go back out into my life, I can do it with, you know, being my highest fullest self. Oh my goodness. Tara, go ahead. Tara, legal head. Sorry. Yeah. Uh, well, so like I, I teach people this all the time that there's like a, a, the feelings that you feel when you go to live music, because why else was you spend all your time and your money and like all of your extra resources, like on this thing, you could be doing that with anything. So the fact that you're choosing there or creating a podcast around it or whatever it is, there's a feeling that you feel that keeps you going back. And when you could identify what that feeling is, whether it's like you feel present, you feel expressed, you feel bliss, you feel connected to something bigger than yourself, which is what Leah found when she did all of her research is where the feelings that a lot of people were feeling also. And then figure out a way to bring that into your everyday life when your kids are screaming or you're driving to work or whatever, like how can I feel more present right now? How could I feel more connected? How could I feel more expressed? But you do need that live show to remind you of what those feelings are. Like this is, we experienced this during the pandemic, Leah and I were like, yay, the work that we've done, like this really does work. We feel good, but it does dwindle as time goes by and you need that experience to like fill your cup and read up it. And then if you can make it an intentional, powerful experience, it's gonna last even longer in your regular life. I love that. We sort of segwayed into my next question, which was how do live music experiences connect us? We've already started kind of that conversation. It reminds me, Goose has a great song, Rockdale, and they talk about dancing these blues away. Whenever they play it, I'm always just like literally puts me in this headspace of like, yeah, I am, I'm just gonna dance these blues away. Like I'm gonna leave it all here. And I've had many experiences, both at Fish and at Goose shows where I literally like cried, just like, not that I was sad or that I had anything happen to me, but like the emotion was that strong that just can't kind of came over me and I just kind of shed, you know, whatever I needed to shed in that moment. And yeah, there's a lingering euphoria that exists there. And part of it is, you know, you kind of named that triangle. We talk about all the time, which is like the band, the venue, and the attendees at a concert. And when those things are in harmony, like there's nothing like it. You can feel it instantly. Everybody in the room feels it and it's really palpable. And you sort of become family with people. You know, we're coming out of Goose drought right now with these cap shows that we all just went to last week up in New York. And I mean, it was like a family reunion, truly, like just seeing everyone again, getting to see people that you maybe only knew in digital spaces up until this point. And now you're in real, you know, contact with them. And there's something really special about these communities that bands like Fish and from the Gies and Twiddle and Goose, of course, create, which is larger than just the music, although the music is a connecting force between them. And so yeah, I want to, yeah, what's that been like is kind of like verbalizing that connection for people and helping them see what it means to make those connections through live music. Yeah, people don't see it. We've been, it was a RJ when we were on the helping friendly pod and he was like, I never even considered any of that. He just would go to the show and let it happen. So this is like a new conversation to be talked about. Like a lot of the podcast before were like, tell us logistical things and stuff like this where we're like talking about the music. So a lot of people haven't made the connection. So it's like, we're here to help them to make that connection and realize that this can be part of your like health and wellness protocol for your life. Definitely. Yeah. 100%. And the difficulty is, is that it is a nonverbal experience because what makes it so profound that especially connecting other people is the emotional impact that it has on us. And that's, that's a different part of our brain. I mean, live music activates multiple parts of our brains, but that emotional part is not, that's not the language part. So it's really interesting because, and also the transcendent part, that's not the language part either. And the movement part, that's not the language part either. And so we have these experiences that are difficult to put into language. And if you've ever tried, because I have to ask somebody, what is it like when you feel that feeling? Like, it's so hard to put it into words. Unless a person is really sat with it and like, try to do that. But there is, it has to be put into words for us to value it and to understand it. And so there, there is a value in trying to language this experience. And, and I work on this all the time. And actually even yesterday, I just, I put out two social media posts about the relational aspect of live music because I feel, I mean, I'm trained as a marriage family therapist. And so I see things at, in relational ways. And I know a lot about attachment and attachment trauma. And I fully believe that live music can help heal attachment trauma because it connects us so deeply in a way that is not, it's, it's not intimidating because we don't have to worry about touching another person physically. We don't have to worry about being touched. But yet we are all being touched energetically. That's what music does for us. And so, and it, you know, what happens in attachment when we are wounded is that we are not cared for. We are not seen. We are not understood. We are not loved in the way that we need to be loved. And I think we could all say that we get that from our live music. We feel seen. We feel understood. We feel love. We feel cared for. And the bands that are able to create a relationship with their fans, like all of the bands that you just mentioned, that it's like another way of mothering. And I don't even think they have any idea that this is happening. But it's like it's such a deep level of healing that can happen from that. And I don't know anybody else that's talking about that. But I see that potential. And I also, I just want to bring back something because it keeps coming into my mind a quote that Rick said, and I can't remember what where this was. But he said, I give the people what they need in the way that they want it. And I love that so much because it's so true. So in a way, they know what they're doing. Yeah. I think Rick is so special in that way. He really is connected to like, you know, this out of body experience of music. He talks about even his writing. He's like, I don't really think of it in conceptual formats. Like it just comes to me. And the more I'm able to get to meditative state, the more that it comes out of me. And so when people ask him to explain his lyrics, he's like, it's not for me to explain. It's for you to decide what they mean to you, right? Which is so unique for an artist. Most artists are like, this is what I want to say. This is, you hear so much, especially in, you know, traditional music spaces, non-jam, music spaces that it's all about a specific interpretation of the piece, right? And in jam bands, it's not that it's really about so much about how it makes you feel, how it hits you, what these things mean, what parts of your life does it pick up on. And we've had that experience on the show here because we do usually dissect at least one song, a show. And as we start talking about the song, the last question we always ask is like, what kind of vibe does the song bring to a set? And invariably, we'll all start moving in the exact same way, either swaying or like nodding our head and we'll just start laughing because we're in separate places. But just thinking about the vibe and the song brings us all back to that same place, how we feel, what we do when we hear the song. And it's really, it's even magical just to have it happen on the show and we just laugh so much about it. It's really great. Chelsea, what were you going to say? I don't remember what I was going to say. That's okay. Sorry, I got really intrigued in your explanation because we totally do that. It's funny how we're all connected. I just remember when we were talking about Empress and we're just like, we all just... I love that song so much. We just started like going so... We all did it. We all just did it. We all just did it. You can't. You can't. Yeah. I love that what you said about Rick saying that because I've felt that way I've gone through a lot of traumas and major transitions. And so in different days, the song means different things and it gives... I take it as different things. So it's really hard for me to actually break down a song. Like when we get to that part of the podcast and we're breaking it down, you can probably hear every week that I'm just like... Because even if I listen to it the night before and the next day, something has happened in between and always. There's something happening in life. And so there's always something else that it means. And I've listened to it from the night before and dropping my kids off at school and it just hits me a different way. And so... But I absolutely love that that's what he does and what we do and take it in different things because it is musical therapy. And I love sitting here talking to you about it because I feel like, oh, it's not just me. This is completely normal and this is... It's even better that I feel like even better that, okay, I am getting this from it. And I feel like I am getting that therapy and what I need from it. And it is just more than just going to a concert. I think a lot of us have said... A lot of us have said, we're going to the altar. We're going to church when we go to these concerts. And it's because we know that we are going to get so much in our cup. We're going to get our cup filled. We're going to come out meeting new people, getting a magical experience from it in whichever way that touches us. And we come out with just so much more than just, oh, we went to a concert. We come out with... So... Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. I know my computer, my connection's messing up. So... That's so fun. You sound great. Oh, okay. But I just absolutely... I just love being able to come out of a show and get so much more from it. And sometimes it seems like, man, I didn't even realize that that song hit me like that. And it's just a whole other ballgame and a whole other thing that you're looking into yourself in words of, wow, that hit me this way. And while I did it hit me that way. And so you're doing just a whole lot more inward searching. And I feel like I've grown a lot. And I feel like a lot of people have grown a lot. Yeah. That potential is certainly there. And I think that validation that you're talking about, like that this is so much more than just a recreational, let's go have fun and party. That's really important. And that is one of the things that Terrelli feedback that Terrelli and I have gotten from our podcast and that I got when I was talking about my research. Like people are like, yes, thank you so much for putting this into words for me. And they've even sent it to their parents or sent it to whoever just doesn't understand to say, hey, look, this is real. This is valid. I'm really getting something from this. And it's really important because the rest of society makes us think that we're doing something wrong or bad if we want to go rock out the shows. I mean, we're in our mid 40s on the group therapy podcast. So like, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. We were choosing to do that because it's benefiting us so much. Exactly. It's like the greatest investment I've ever made in myself. Absolutely. It truly is. My children can tell a difference, you know, between going and not going and just how happy, like, you know, how happy it makes us and my 12 year old, she just, she's like, man, they need to go to concert. They really need to do this because she can see the difference in how people that don't go to concerts and they're just always, you know, just a frowny face, grumpy gills as we like to call them. And you know, and then people that do go to concerts and they might be going through things, but they're also looking towards that positive and trying to find that positive. And so I think it's, and what you were saying, Leah, earlier about, you know, acknowledging and the things that you write off. And when you're saying that, I was just like, that is so true. And that's what I feel a lot of us don't get in that acknowledgement and that love and, you know, and filling your cup is a huge part. And I don't even think I realized that until you said that, you know, that we need those things that we say that children need, but we still need those things as adults and that's things that we don't even realize that we are getting from these shows. I mean, just go into the bathroom, you know, like you come out feeling so much better because you've been uplifted by all the beautiful ladies and, you know, by the wonderful music. And so it's all those things coming together that we don't even realize how much it benefits us. And that's why we turn around and we're going back and we're going back and we're going back. Yeah, absolutely. It really is special. And yeah, I love listening to your show because it just continues to reinforce that for me and for other people that listen, you know, that this is a valid way to address some of the things that we're all dealing with as the world gets more and more difficult to traverse. And things are looking bleaker than ever. You know, it can be easy to get sucked into all of that and not have an outlet of a space where you can exist separate from those negative things and really fill yourself up and focus on yourself. Like, honestly, attend to your individual needs. You know, the society is taught especially for women. We're supposed to worry about everybody else or it's supposed to take care of everybody else. And at shows, it's like, no, like I'm here for me. I'm here to make sure I connect with myself. I'm here to maybe find a truth that I'm searching for. Maybe have a breakthrough. Maybe let something out or maybe just to smile more than I have in the last month, like all of those things can happen at a show, sometimes all at once at times. And I just love that about it. And I love that about the show as well. I want to segue to talk about this fish Seattle run experience that draw a curating because I lost my shit the first time I saw the video that Chop posted about it. And I was like, this is the most genius thing I've ever heard. So if you can just describe what you're doing just to start off with, and I have a couple of questions after that. Yeah. And you want to start it out? Sure. Well, I will say that kind of the concept, like this is something that I did to a fish run edicts a few years ago, probably in 2017, I think, maybe 2018. And it offers people the opportunity to come together. There's a lot of people who like to travel solo to shows and to go have amazing experiences. And they want to find their soul family. And of course, people travel in cruise all the time, but there are other people who are choosing to do shows maybe a little bit differently than they've done. Maybe be a little bit more intentional. Maybe start to put into effect some of the group therapy concepts that we talk about on our podcast. And so it's perfect for a person like that that's like, you know what? I know that this experience is more than maybe what I thought it was before. And I want to make sure that I'm leaning into that and expanding my experience. And also the balance that we're putting together in this retreat, in that live music is amazing. And it's expanding and it's blissful and it's ecstatic and all of the things. But like, we have to have balance in our nervous system to be able to go back with a full cup and not to return to our life feeling ragged. And like we need a couple of days to just like rebalance back home. So what we're doing is we're combining the retreat with the fish experience so that we can make sure that we're helping people to nourish themselves and to take care of themselves while they're there. And so we're creating community. We are helping people get to know each other before we even land in Seattle so that there's already that sense of safety that we talked about is so important. And having those transcendent live music experiences. And we're creating this really safe space for people to drop in so that they can get what they need to get and really learn how to nourish themselves in the process so that it's not like, okay, I'm going to go and I'm going to go into outer space for these three days and I'm going to have this most amazing time. But then when I land back on earth, I'm going to follow my face and not be able to put myself back for a little bit. I'm going to be able to actually have both while I'm away. And then when I come back, I'm just going to probably be even a little bit more elevated than I was before I left. And I'm all about the elevation in life and the continued growth. So that's what I have to say about that. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So this is so interesting because we just got back from the cap brand. Well, as they were saying, and I posted about it, but my post was about finding balance because I felt wore out because shows for me are usually more of a singular experience. So I'll go alone or maybe with like a friend or two. And that's my vibe. And I've always really got reflective and been able to focus on myself and just. And this time I met so many people and I was talking to so many people and just because of the podcast and everything. It was really, it took a lot out of me because I'm more introverted. I need time to reach charge. I need that time to focus on myself. And I didn't do enough of that this run. And it was amazing meeting everyone and everything like that. But I also was not focusing on myself like I usually do and just in my own space. And so that's how I ended my post is I just got to find the balance as with all things in life. And it takes me back to finding the balance of surrender and discipline like we're talking about. So I totally get that of just making sure you're taking care of yourself too. And actually using that time to reflect. And I really love this idea of being intentional about that in a group setting with other people. So that's really cool. That's totally something that my ally. I would shout for. Yeah. You three should all come. That's exactly what I was thinking. I was like, I really need to do this. That's a big thing of us going on these shows and me doing photography. And because I'm doing the photography. And I love to see everyone. This is my reason of going as the family and the amazing music. And so that is definitely a struggling part is when I come out of it, I'm so exhausted, just absolutely exhausted and also absolutely feeling good. But there is that little part where I'm just so exhausted and I need to find that balance. And literally all week long, I'm like, okay, next show, I've got to do something different. I've got to be able to say, I love you people, but I really need to go rest. And I'm very weak in saying no because I'm just like, well, when's the next time I'm going to be able to see everyone? And I can sleep when I get back. But I've got to be able to find a mind space that's okay, that I can see people and maybe it'd be like, all right, this trip, I'm going to go with these people. And so that's something that I think a lot of us need to find balance on and something I definitely need to find balance on. So I definitely need to go to Y'all's retreat. And I'm just so happy that y'all are bringing this up and finding it because I think that this will make all of our lives a whole lot easier and help refill our cup so much, so much faster. And well, you know, I mean, I don't, you know what I'm trying to say, just it being that harmony and the feeling of our cup and then also not having to come back and just be trying to figure out how to get back into real life. And I guess that's my hard part is going out and filling my cup and then having to come back and try and figure out how do I switch back to real life? How do I do this and bring all the wonderful things that I've learned on shut down, you know, while I've been out going to these shows and been out with family, you know, my chosen family because I definitely say that their family over everyone and then, but to also live real life. So I think that's a big struggle and trying to find and it's great to hear and to hear that all the work that y'all are doing to help us figure it out and not have to be on years and years and years journey that, you know, 10, 15 years down the road, they're like, okay, guys, I think we figured this out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, terribly. What can people like, what can people expect? What will the experience be like for this run? I'm just literally like I said, literally, I screamed for my husband so loud when I'm like, you got to see this is the most amazing thing I've ever heard. So yeah, just describe a little bit more about the kind of nuts and bolts of like what the experience will be like for folks are going to participate. Yeah, we're going to be on to be teaching yoga. Leah is going to be teaching her embodied groove class. We're going to do sharing circles. We're all going to get ready together. We have this amazing beautiful house that is like five minutes from the venue. So you have a safe, magical, comfortable like home space to be in that has a lot of nooks and crannies for if you want to be alone or if you want to like connect with someone or you want to meet with the whole group. And then like Leah said, we're going to have a call beforehand. So you all get to know each other before and then the integration piece after. So Alexis, like you were talking about how it's so hard to get back into regular life, we're going to talk about that. Like how can we take this experience and bring it into our life and integrate this experience in the most powerful way. So we're going to use all of our tools and tricks that we have done ourselves. And we're going to just show you. It's like here we can talk about it all day, but until you do it like with us in real time, like that is going to be that's going to be life changing. That's a game changer being there in life, you know, and seeing how how it works because exactly like you said, we you can tell us about it. But until you live it, that's always the difference is living it and being told about it. So do you have a lot of these coming up or this next one and just like playing because I'm like, I don't know if this one fits into my schedule, but I really need to put it in my schedule for sure. We're going to start with this one and we'll see where it goes. Oh, that means sitting here thinking like Red Rocks is two days, you know, that's a run like Colorado's nice. I'm literally just all going through my head. I want to ask you both about why, you know, extending the experience we get live music events beyond the shows is so important. What is the crucial thing about that that we need to continue to hold on to? Well, I think, you know, in my mind, it's like they're so often is this like like I was saying before this. It's just separate. It's like, okay, I have myself at live music and, you know, a lot of us myself included. Well, I'll speak for myself. I, but I think other people can relate to this. It's like that is my highest self, you know, like that is my pure essence. When I am dancing to live music that I love surrounded by people who love it and, you know, it's like that's me at my highest. Well, I don't want to just be at my highest when I'm at live music. Like I want to be at my highest when I'm out all the time. So what, you know, a process that really I went through my own life was like, okay, I'm doing this and I know Terri Lee has stuff to say about this too. It's like, I'm doing this at live music, but then I'm going back to my life. And so often I hear from people like how much their life sucks outside of live music. And that's why they go because it is an escape and it gives them a place to go that where like they can feel free and they can feel all these things that they don't get in their everyday life, but it doesn't have to be that way. And you know, they're so Terri Lee works a lot with, you know, like what she was saying, like how do you take these feelings that you feel like music and put them into your everyday life. And, and for me too, it's like, how can I take this healing therapeutic experience that I felt at live music and not just make it a part of my everyday life, but help it to bring meaning to my everyday life so that it's not just that I'm chasing this live music experience because they're, I mean, there's also a time where it becomes a little obsessive too. And that's actually not healthy either. So talk about balance. Like we have to find that balance where we are getting our cup filled and it's not in a way that is taking away from other priorities and important things in our, and the rest of our life. And I think as we age like that kind of, because it's like when I was in my twenties, whatever, live music was my life, you know, it's like, yeah, I was going to school and that was important too. But like, I have to come back and give to my family too and to my career. And it's like, you know, so just to have that balance and that sense of continuation throughout as opposed to this is where I get here. And then when I go back to my life, it sucks and I just have to deal with it until I can get back to my happy place. How can we have happy places all around us and even feel that happy place inside of ourselves because that's where it really lives. Yeah. And it's like what I said before with those feelings that you feel at live music. I really, I like to use that as a compass for all the decisions in my life. So if somebody offers me something like, is that going to make me feel connected? Is that going to make me feel expressed? Is that going to make me feel bliss? Is that going to make me feel present? Like is that what this is going to do for me or not? And it wasn't like, I figured this out right away. It was definitely like over time, but like my life totally sucked at first. And I was like wearing two, I was like two separate people who I was at music and who I was in my job and in real life and in my relationships and all the things. I've a one side decided to like, infuse that into my everyday and use those feelings as a compass slowly like the relationships that were in alignment fell like off and the jobs like I quit that job and started saying yes to the things. So I just like my day. You're telling my story right back to you. Ah, yes. Literally I told that. I told you. That was my little story. Yeah. It's just like I love it. I have like a thousand nights over here because I mean, this is just like so, so much related to my life and I think not just my life, but like all of our lives. Like we've just been, you know, just going over just trying to fill this, find that balance. And this is so much just a part of that and finding that balance. And so I'm like beyond, beyond thankful to y'all and we'll be watching everything that y'all do. And this is just so important. And I think that we all forget how that the music is, you know, how wonderful that the music is. But the reason that we're there is to find this balance and is to do do these things and to help it help it in our lives and so making sure that we that we go to these shows that we get those things, but also the reason why we're there not to forget that we're there to find that balance to fill our cups to to do this. And so this is I'm just kind of shocked, you know, and I'm shocked just you. You hear these things, you know, these things even though I knew this episode was coming up and knew about it. It just still is just eye opening, you know, like when you bring it all together. And this is this has been just like very for me and I know we're not finishing stuff, but this has just been very just eye opening and just I have like so many notes written. It's not even funny and I'm excited to see how your first event goes. And I know it's not going to be your last event because I know that I know that a lot of us are looking for this. And I think it's it's a cool thing to be able to find it and and the pot, you know, the podcast and the things going that we can all help each other connect and get these things out there. And and like Leslie was saying, Red Rocks. Yeah, that's like a two day event. Trying to be aware. Can we get this? Let's work together and make it happen, you know, because this is a this is a big deal, a big thing. And I think it would help a lot of us out to I know it would help a lot of us out because that's what a lot of us are missing in that. And what we talk about all the all the time is when the show's over like, oh, now I have to go back to real life. And how do I put this in? And that depression hits, you know, we're we're having such a good time. And then we know that we have to go back into this and how can we take these beautiful things that we have, you know, that we've learned at the concerts and with each other. And how can we put that into real life into our real lives? And also this can benefit others in not by us trying to that not being our main point, like us focusing on ourselves and, you know, and doing the things that we have to do to refill our cups. And just being nice, you know, just a little bit goes a long way. We know just being kind to others, you know, there will be a domino effect. And so this is amazing. And I'm excited to see how this domino effect goes around. And I know when I come out of concerts, I'm just in such a good mood for days and, you know, days on the end. And so being able to find this balance and this harmony and in this flow, life flow, that's what we've been putting it into our flow and figuring this out is going to be exciting. I'm very excited just to try that to be the next thing in my life. That to be the next thing is figuring out that flow and how we make it all work. Yeah, I think it's been interesting because this run and the Capitol Theater was so long, five nights in a row. And I know for myself, I just was like not really prepared for the intensity of that many days in a row. It's very different than two days or even three. My husband and I decided not to go on the rail in the middle of the run on Friday. We went up to the balcony just to like give us a little distance, give us a little bit of space. We knew we needed a little bit of a breather. But the energy was still super high up there still. I didn't feel like I missed anything. And we've all just been talking like we need to decompress with each other. We need to talk about our experience. We need to really debrief this experience. We just all had together and it's been such a strong pull. And I've been like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I want to give us a little time to settle in before we do that. I did a recap with the guys from almost always there on Saturday of the Friday show. And it was fine. I had things to say. But even now listening to it back, I'm like, if I had done it now, I would have had a completely different thing to talk about things to say. And so some of it is for me kind of like putting a little bit of pause, like letting it seep in. Give it myself time to process. I really appreciated Chelsea's post because it was like, oh yeah, Chelsea got home and was like, why am I feeling different than I have when I normally go to shows this? What were the differences that happened here that put me in a different place and part of it was good, part of it was not as great as I wanted it to be and how do I realign things so that this doesn't happen again. And so for me, this run was an eye opener of like, wow, I need to go into shows with a little bit more intentionality when I know it's going to be multiple shows in a row and think about what I'm going to do after the fact to kind of reintegrate myself back into my quote unquote regular life, but also giving myself the space that I need to really analyze my experience and to really think about how I felt in the moment and then what it feels like with a little bit of distance from the experience as well. So I love this idea of doing it with other people. I know you're going to do like a post run gathering as well online with the folks that are going to be doing this retreat with y'all. So it's not just like it ends and then everybody leaves and the little cocoon you've built is just dismantled in a second as soon as the last, you know, fisherman hits his last hi-hat and that's it. You're allowing for a reintegration together and I love that. So I'm just thinking about that. We're going to be all going to the goose shows in Chicago together. It's our first time just the four of us. We're leaving everybody else at home. It's just going to be awesome. So give me a lot to think about because we're going to be staying together and there's some ways we can really support each other and some positive ways with this cap experience behind us kind of like, okay, what are we going to take with us and what lessons do we want to make sure that we take with us moving forward. So really grateful to y'all for again giving voice, giving language to us, giving just this concept of like acknowledging the things we get from live music and how that can affect us in our lives outside of the spaces that these magical spaces that these bands create. And I'm also one of those I hate and people like, what are they going to play tonight? I'm like, I don't care. We're going to play whatever they need that I need to hear. Like that's always my mantra. I'm like, the boys always know and whichever boys they are, whether it's fish or goose or whoever, like they'll come out there and they'll say one of my favorite things is getting a set list and noting where they changed the song order that they wanted to do. And I'm like, yeah, because they felt something different and they decided to go a different way or they move things in different orders. And that's also one of my favorite things about being on the rails watching their interactions with each other, watching how the energy flows amongst them and what that looks like. It's why I love sitting like when I go to MSG, I love sitting behind fish because you can, that's the best view to really see all of their little interactions with each other. The looks towards each other. They're pointing to each other. The laughs that they have that are just clearly an inside joke amongst them. And that energy flows out to the crowd and then back to them. And it's this constant exchange of energy that happens. And so, yeah, I'm really going to, I've been paying more attention to that myself at shows and just kind of like noting it and noting how things go around when we were in the balcony. The Capitol Theater has one of the best staffs, I have to say, that I've ever encountered. So one of the Usher shout out to Chris, he sat us on our seats and we had a little conversation. And then I don't remember what song was like in the middle of one of the songs that they were just really like in the pocket. And I looked over and he happened to look over right at me and we just were like, yeah, I just like pointed each other. And it's separate. He ran over to me and he was like, that was my moment of the whole week. Made my entire like that was it. That moment that we shared was so special. And it's those things that you unexpected moments with strangers that you connect with right there to the point he had to come and say, like this was the thing that made my entire entire run was sharing that beautiful moment with you. And so, yeah, I'm just taking all of that in. And thank you all so much for all the work you all are doing. And I'm so excited to hear after the Seattle run, how everything went and what the experience was like. Because like I said, I just thought it was the most brilliant thing. And so in alignment with the autonomous owned, we try to create at shows. And so just thought of like extending it to where you're staying, extending it to before you go, extending it to after you get back. It's just brilliant. And so in alignment with the ways in which champions kind of operate themselves, these guys are family with each other. Their families are families with each other. You know, they spend so much time together and practice so much that it's hard to not see that all that effort on the stage. But when they get out there, they get to be free, right? They get to just let it go and interact with each other. It's so beautiful. Any last words and also please let everyone know where they can follow each of you and also where to find the show. Of course, we'll have all of this in the show notes, but I always like to make sure it's verbally said as well. Yeah. I mean, I still have a lot that I could talk about, but I think last words, I can't think of any to sum it up, just that it's been such a pleasure and thanks so much for having us on. Love the collaboration. I love that, you know, we're all really looking at this life. I mean, this is the beauty of us coming together and talk about live music in the way that we see it, which is relationally and emotionally and not just like picking apart the musicality of it because I don't even understand any of that. I just know how it makes me feel and how it makes me move and how much it's transformed my life. So thanks so much for creating the space and for having us on. And it's been such a pleasure and so fun. I love talking about all this. But you'll have to tell me about that. You'll be back again. This will be just a piece of money. So don't worry. I was going to want to invite myself. I've got to figure out a goo show, which I'll go to as well. And I know I'm trying to Chelsea and Hannah haven't been to fish shows before. So we're talking about, hopefully the. I haven't either. I've been to the tech. I've been to the tech. I've been to the tech. Yeah. And I definitely need to do that. And so funny you're saying that to me because I was like, oh, this can't just be like the only show. We've got more to discuss and to follow up on and to see how this because y'all have your first retreat that you're doing and how that goes. We definitely need to hear about all that and what happens and then how that we can take that further in our community and what we can do to better it because that's why we're all here is what can we do to better our community and to bring it together as a community to stick together as a community because we all know that the goose is skyrocketing that we knew that this was going to take off. But I think that we were just we just weren't prepared for it when it took off. And so we've got so much more work to do. This is just the beginning phases. I mean, we're just starting to like, you know, to get the outer layers of it off. And so we've got so much more work to do and bring it together and to make sure our community is loving, empathetic and here for each other because that's what the guys are. They're all about the bands all about this too. So we all working together and making sure that we can keep this community a beautiful space and reminding each other what is important and why we are here that it's we're here for the beautiful music, but we are here to refill our cups and to be here for each other. And I was talking to one of the crew members we were hanging out after the last night and you know, last night, last run. And he was just like, man, this is what it's all about. This is what it's all about. This is not just the music. It's just the beautiful people coming together, the souls, you know, each person bringing their experiences and everyone sharing it together and making it more of just more than just a music experience, a soul experience and sharing that with each other. So I'm very excited to hear how it goes with y'all and to continue to grow this shared experience because we're all going to have to learn together as this community gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And if we can do it in a positive life, light and help each other out, then that's what we need to do. And that's the place, the path that we need to be on together. Yeah, maybe y'all could come to a fish show and we could do a live episode and we can come to a goose show and we can do a live episode altogether. Sounds like a point. All my brainwaves are all like firing right now, just thinking of the possibilities of it all. So thanks y'all for joining us. We're so thankful for you, for your show, for all of your work. Super excited for this fish run and yeah, to meet up very soon in the future again. So thanks for joining us. Yeah, thank you so much. Can we let people know how to find us too? I forgot to mention that. So you can definitely check out me and my work at DrLeaTaylor.com. You can link to the group therapy podcast from there too and see all the ways that I help support people and finding flow in their life and really easing into that pleasure and ease on an everyday basis. Also at Dr. Leah Taylor on Instagram too. Terri. Yeah. And you can find me on my website, rockinglife.com and the work that I do with live music fans that have ADHD that want to have accountability to achieve all of their goals and dreams. It's called the goal squad accountability. All right. Goal squad collective coaching program. And I also lead retreats. I just finished one in Porto Valarta called the play retreat for busy adults that just need a break and want to have fun. And it was amazing. You could find out all of those things there. And my Instagram is at rocking life with two underscores after and I'm extremely active on there. So if you feel like you may be heavy at ADHD, like I have lots of stuff for you on there. And hopefully I'll make you laugh because I think I'm funny. So yeah, thanks y'all. We'll have all of those links in the show notes so folks can just go right to the bottom and click follow. Make sure you subscribe to Guru therapy and keep up with that, Tara Lee. And Leah, thanks again so much. We'll see you. Thank you. That's all I'll say. Until next time. Until next time. Until next time. Yay. We know. We know. We know. Well, I don't know about y'all but that was an amazing interview in Congress. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. And I'm really excited to be here. 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