231: The Westall UFO Incident

All right, so Matt, I gotta tell you about a dream I had last night. I had this dream that I was running behind this truck that was going through the forest, and I don't know why, but it was driving through the forest and I'm running right behind it the whole night. I woke up exhausted. I should've seen that one coming up. Good evening everybody and welcome to the Graveyard. Thank you for joining us tonight. My name is Adam and my name's Matt. Now, we'll have a tombstone or settle into your casket and get comfortable because this is Graveyard Tales. All right, everybody here we are again Matt. How you doing tonight, brother? Man, I'm doing all right. Excellent. Excellent. So before we get into it, I just say, I apologize. I will cut it out if I burp, but I just had a foretaste and I shoved it down before we started recording. So I may be a smidge gassy, but I'll try to cut it out. Maybe I'll leave it in for the patrons. I don't know. 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I mean, they get so excited. And you know, my kids don't get excited about a home cooking meal. You know, we are we are chicken nuggets and pizza. You know, and until they yeah, but it doesn't matter what we make with hello fresh, they love it like um like the broad worst bar with caramelized onions. Oh yeah. I mean, it's fantastic. I love braille. Decent a slaw and pineapple relish. Ah, it's out of this world. And you know, everybody in the house just they can't get enough. And right, this summer hello fresh is here to take the work out of eating well. You can reach your goals with delicious calorie smart and protein smart lunch and dinner options plus new vegan recipes too. And if you're stuck in a recipe recipe rut, that's actually hard for me to say for some reason. You're stuck in a recipe rut. Take a bite out of something new with 40 recipes to choose from weekly with options to please even the pickiest eaters. You'll always find meals everyone at the table will enjoy. And no matter your lifestyle, you'll always find delicious recipes on hello fresh. Like the pescatarian and veggie meals, you can even swap proteins and sides to make a recipe just how you like it. And we've done that, Matt. We like the little tequito things that they I don't know. Oh yeah. You know, they're like a tequito, but normally I think they come with pork. Well, we swapped it out for beef. And I mean, that it's our palate better. And since they let you do it, we took advantage of it. Yeah. So if you want to be like Matt and I and our families and start looking forward to making dinner, then all you've got to do is go to hello fresh dot com slash graveyard 16 and use our code graveyard 16. That's g-r-a-v-e y-a-r-d-one six and you'll get 16 free meals plus free shipping. Yeah, I just go to hello fresh dot com slash graveyard 16 and use our promo code graveyard 16 g-r-a-v-e y-a-r-d-one six and you get 16 free meals plus free shipping. And you'll find out why hello fresh is America's number one meal kit. All right, Matt. So that's all the housekeeping I've got. Why don't you tell us what are we talking about tonight, brother? Okay, so if I told you that there was a potential UFO sighting where an estimated 300 some odd people witnessed it. You're a liar. But the media never really covered it. All the people were instructed to not discuss it. And it was pretty much just erased from, you know, recent history. What would you say? Would you believe that? You know, I think most of our listeners probably would because we've talked about the government cover up so much. Yeah. But it's so hard to believe though. But if I said where do you think that occurred, what would you say? Not where this occurred? Exactly. Exactly. Tonight, we're going to talk about the West all school UFO incident in Australia. It's right outside of Melbourne in a little town called Clayton South. And this occurred back in the 60s. And pretty much it just kind of was like it never happened. Yeah. But yet, even in the last few years, some of the witnesses have come forward and said, hey, this really did happen. And we were instructed not to talk about it. Right. All right. So we're going to get into this. And I'm telling you, it's legit here because normally if Adam and I go into researching a UFO incident, it's just pages and pages and articles one after the other. It's just not there. Yeah. It is just not there. I mean, everything you find is within the last few years where these people have started coming forward and saying, I need to tell this story. It's amazing how, how good governments can be at scrubbing information. Yeah. Yeah. It's just it's incredible. When we get into what these people saw, I think I think if you've never heard of this before, you're going to be shot. Yeah. Not granted. You know, this happened prior to the internet, which I know for some of our listeners, our younger listeners, there's like, they're like, there was a pre-internet days. You mean, there hadn't always been an internet. But right. Yeah. I mean, the internet came around in my lifetime. So I remember a pre-internet and a post-internet. So yes, this was pre-internet days. So that's probably why it was easier for them to scrub some information. Oh, yeah. But still, I mean, it's they had to do some work for the amount of witnesses to keep their mouth shut. That's that's it. It's the that that number of people that were present to try to get that many people to zip it. That's pretty tough. Yep. So as we always say, go check our sources. They're down on the bottom of the show notes. You can find where we found the information you can keep going. You, you know, do a deeper dive in the rabbit hole than we're going to do if you would like. And you can found it. You can found. Yeah. Yeah. I can found a lot of things. I mean, it's going to be a great night for pronouncing stuff. Oh, yeah, because it's a lot of Australian stuff. And we're wonderful at that. Oh, yeah. You know how good we are. But you can find the original information where we got it. So now the West all high school, which is what it was called at the time of the incident. It's now called West all secondary college was the site of a mass UFO siding like Matt said. And these always fascinate me due to how many people are there to corroborate the encounter. So when Matt gets into it, I'm going to be glued to the edge of my seat because I love these mass sightings like this. But it's located at 88 Rosebank Avenue in Clayton, South Victoria, Australia. And West all is a suburb located in the southeastern part of Melbourne Victoria, Australia. So let's look at a little history. Now William West all he was born in Hartford, England and he grew up in London. Now he was taught to draw by his half-brother Richard West all who achieved some distinction as a watercolor painter. Now West all was admitted to the Royal Academy School in 1799. The same year as John Constable. Now in the following year, he was appointed the landscape artist on the HMS investigator commanded by Matthew Flinders. Now during the circumnavigation of Australia, he made many pencil and wash landscapes as well as a series of coastal profiles in pencil. Some of the sketches were lost or damaged when the HMS purpose ran a ground on a reef in August of 1803. Now West all in his drawings were marooned on Recre for eight weeks. The surviving works were subsequently shipped to England and given to Richard West all to be restored. Now he was one of the first professional artists to visit Australia and his paintings and drawings have enormous documentary value. So interesting that last name West all and he was the first professional artist to do that for Australia. Now prior to European settlement, the land on which West all now stands was inhabited by the War of Jerry people who are part of the Kulin nation. So it was a, it was land that was inhabited by First Nations people like our previous episode was. So the Europeans came in and kind of took that land for themselves. But the European settlement of the area began in the 19th century. Farming and agriculture in the area became some of the most significant industries after they settled it. Now the major crops that were there that were being cultivated at the time were Wheaton Barley. Now in 1856 a railway station named West all was established in the area. The railway played a crucial role in the development of the local community and provided transportation links to Melbourne and other parts of Victoria. A West all experienced significant residential development following World War II. During the post war period there was a housing boom in Melbourne and many new suburbs including West all were developed to accommodate the growing population. Housing estates were established and the suburb grew with the construction of new homes. West all is known for its educational institutions and West all primary school was established in 1958 and has been serving the community since then West all secondary college which is where this happened is a co-educational government school and it was established in 1960. So keep 1960 in mind because it wasn't long after the school was established that this siding happened. Yeah. So West all secondary college like I said was established in 1960 but I've seen several dates for this like different dates and I think there's a problem going from Australian internet information to US internet information because the last I thought you were going to say like the Australian calendar is different. What? Yeah they you know Australians and they're wacky calendar. They've got they've got 13 months. I mean smart is not a month. I'm sorry. Lousey smart weather. It was the 13th hour of the 13th day of the 13th month. So but like I said I've seen several dates. Some said it started in 1964 and opened for class in 1965 which would push it real close to the incident. Yeah. So what we'll say it was established as a school in 1960 and then somewhere between 1960 and 1965 it opened for class. Yeah. I'm thinking 1965 is accurate but and and when you when you hear the accounts especially the way they reacted it makes a little bit of sense that this was a young institution right with new or newer people that were you know running the show there and I think when you hear the reactions that's key you know this isn't like you know this happened at Harvard you know somewhere that has been around for hundreds of years you know it was very young and and I think that that contributed to you know how how everybody reacted. Yeah and it that building it was initially just a single building it's grown a lot since then but it was initially just a single building and it was for students in 7th through 10th grade so again yeah they were they were young a lot of them would be young. All right so so let's get into exactly what happened. Now at approximately 11 a.m. on Wednesday April 6th 1966 students and a teacher from West all high school reported seeing a flying object described as a gray or silvery green saucer shaped craft with a slight purple hue and about twice the size of a family car okay so that that green silver to purple does that sounds like the that iridescent color shift paint that you see on some sports cars and stuff and and it's those colors it's like silver to green to purple okay okay according to the students the object was descending over flew the high school and disappeared behind a stand of trees about 20 minutes later the object reportedly reappeared climbed at speed and departed towards the northwest and some accounts describe the object is being pursued by five unidentified aircraft okay real quick I'm gonna jump in and say remember what Matt just said that it moved away with speed right it sped away so keep that amount now over 300 children and staff reportedly witnessed this UFO or at the time UFOs because they didn't know about the other planes right essentially silently fly through the sky before landing in the nearby field and that was critical too is it the the some of the witnesses will say it made no sound that it was you would expect it to be you know at least here engine roar but they didn't hear any of that this is the largest mass UFO sighting in australian history but barely anything was reported on it at the time now over the years there have been differing reports about the exact details of what happened on April 6 such as people claiming that there were three saucer-like objects while some say there was just one but in the years since the incident occurred there has been worldwide speculation about what people actually saw with some believing that it was absolutely an alien encounter and others pointing the finger at the government testing new technology that they didn't want to reveal now throughout all the years there has been one particularly interesting piece of audio that has really been overlooked again this was that that was hardly any media coverage at all this would have been a huge story and this many kids to have seen this and gone home and told their parents and this word would have spread of this fairly quickly even in 1966 yeah there shouldn't have been news agencies that evening on the lawn of this school that's right that's right I mean they would have been able to tune in on the television on the radio and get information about what happened look I mean if if somebody if somebody forgets to flush a toilet in any of my kids schools yeah it's like they're calling all the parents sending out info okay I'm like you know that you know a potential UFO siding that almost the entire school witnessed nothing yeah this happened at Michael school like you said you better believe they would be letting us know but also if they didn't I Michael would tell us but we'd be having words with the school why didn't you tell us right yeah yeah I mean you can you imagine all the angry parents what what yeah there was a UFO at school today you mean my kid called us abducted and you didn't say anything yeah yeah Michael said a spoiled milk jug was stepped on in his school the other day and everybody knew about it everybody knew yeah knew about it it had gotten out and you knew about it before he got home I did yeah yeah now Dr. James Mcdonald who's an American physicist known for researching UFOs conducted an interview with a science teacher from the West all school Andrew Greenwood now Mr. Greenwood witnessed the event when it happened Mcdonald recorded himself during their meeting and the details Greenwood gave about his experience and Mcdonald says Greenwood told me the UFO was first brought to his attention by a hysterical child who ran into his classroom and told him there's a flying saucer outside he thought this child had become deranged or something so he didn't take any notice but when the child insisted that the object was in the sky he decided to go out and take a look for himself now when Greenwood went outside he says he noticed a group of children looking towards the northeast area of the school grounds and as he approached them he claims he saw a UFO hovering close to the power lines Greenwood described it as a round silver object about the size of a car with a metal rod sticking up in the air according to Mcdonald Greenwood then told him that five planes came and surrounded the object as more people began gathering to watch the scene and Mcdonald goes on to describe that Greenwood said it was the most amazing flying he had ever seen in his life I don't know how much flying Andrew Greenwood had seen that's a good point but I mean look I haven't seen a lot of flying either but I can be impressed when it looks like but man that looks really difficult to do you know yeah when the blue angels come across you you know that's impressive yeah I'm impressed you know I'm not a pilot you know but I'm impressed with what they can do the planes were doing everything possible to approach the object and he said how they all avoided collision he said it baffled him that they weren't crashing into one another but he says every time they got too close to the object it would slowly accelerate then it would rapidly accelerate and move away from them and stop say this is critical I'm gonna say it again keep this in mind Matt is telling you that as the planes approach it if it gets too close it moves away at speed intelligently and then it stops and hovers right and I'm I keep bringing this up because I've got something to talk about here at the end and I want you to remember all these details that Matt is telling you right so he said once they would reach it again then it would take off again you know and the same thing would happen he said this little game of cat and mouse went on for about 20 minutes wow and by this time Greenwood said about 350 children and staff were watching so suddenly the UFO shot away and vanished within seconds and it was at this point that the headmaster came out and ordered everyone to go back to class now over the years there were reports that the government tried to cover up the incident and stop witnesses from talking but Greenwood claimed initially that it was the headmaster that first tried to squash the discussion of the incident he probably got a phone call it's exactly what I thought he gave the school a lecture and told the children they would be severely punished if they talked about this matter and told the staff that they could lose their jobs if they mentioned it at all that's ridiculous yeah ridiculous now Greenwood claimed the headmaster was so quote scared and disturbed by the incident that he refused to come outside until the object was gone so when he he's a sissy and because he's a sissy nobody can talk about it so yeah let's get a little scared let's let's talk about that for just a minute um so 20 minutes they witnessed this going and and maybe a little bit longer because we don't really know a time frame of how long it was going on before the child got to mr. Greenwood and Greenwood decided that he needed to go investigate right so I would say somewhere between 20 and 30 minutes this has been going on in that amount of time that was at least in my opinion enough for those planes to reach this object and for the headmaster to get a phone call and as things transpired this headmaster who wasn't out there watching because he was on the phone with a government official telling him you need to get everybody back inside and you need to tell them not not to talk about this at all yep um now I do I know that for sure no I don't that speculation entirely on my part but the way Greenwood is talking about how this played out it seems very plausible yep said when the Royal Australian Air Force contacted the headmaster he told them to quote go jump in a lake hmm that that that sounds a little odd to me don't that it to you yeah um it that sounds like an answer that he gave um yeah I told him to go jump in a lake yeah right okay look I I'll be honest with you I don't care what's going on if the Air Force contacts me for something I'm probably not going to tell them to go jump in a lake now I think you should probably choose your words a little wiser but now if you're talking to your buddy after the government talks to you like oh man I told him to stick it in their pants I wouldn't I wasn't having any other mess right yeah the bravado comes out at that point yeah so they say within about 40 minutes Air Force and Army personnel in their trucks poured into the area and formed a security barrier around the reserve but knowing the area well Mr. Greenwood and others were able to sneak in and see what was going on and Greenwood says we saw a circular area like trampled grass and there were guards around it and there were people in there with equipment now there have been claims from several witnesses that sharply dressed me in in black suits visited them and warned them from speaking about the incident and that lines up with a few experiences that Mr. Greenwood had when he tried to speak with other witnesses about what they had seen so Mr. Greenwood spoke to local news reporters about the incident but became frightened about speaking out when two weeks after the incident two men claiming to be government officials knocked on the door of his home one in plain clothes and the other one senior Air Force Mr. Greenwood the man told the teacher he was mistaken about what he saw and had he really even seen anything and so Greenwood responds he says in this interview absolutely I was threatened I was told that I should not say anything about it and when he tried to explain to them that they weren't there I was I know what I saw the first suggestion was that quote you'd be ill advised to go on saying that because clearly you were drunk on duty and we'll have to be reported to the education department and of course you will lose your job so if if that's not a threat I don't know what is yeah that that's straight up a if you say anything we're going to make sure that you get fired will lie and make sure you get fired yeah drunk yeah oh he must have been drunk yeah he was drunk around the kids we we knew he was we'd smelled it on his breath and they'll pay somebody or threaten somebody to say they witnessed it as well right right so Mcdonald says in the from the interview that at the time of seeing the UFO Greenwood was a skeptic and he had never really considered the plausibility of UFOs existing but when he asked the teacher to describe when they asked when Greenwood asked the physical education teacher to describe what she had seen herself so that he can compare it with his own observation he said she wouldn't say anything Greenwood also reportedly spoke to one of the older students who described the event in great detail exactly as he had seen it but when he spoke to her again about half an hour later she wouldn't say a word I think that's just that that's clear that people are getting to them and telling them to they're intimidated now I will say this it's probably in 1966 it probably wasn't that difficult for someone in a position of authority to threaten and subdue a bunch of kids sure no matter what age you know if we're talking about 7th through 10th grade yeah what are what are we talking about like 12 to what maybe 15 16 okay kids you know and you've got the headmaster of your school talking about you'll be severely punished you may even had some of these government officials coming in talking to these kids going you don't need to say anything about this yeah and and I'm sure they were scared oh yeah but field tyranny who was 15 at the time of the sighting backs up what Greenwood describes and says she remembers seeing three silver disc dish-like shaped objects with a dome at the top in the sky she claims none of them made a sound we weren't allowed to talk to the media Mr. Ernie said they told us all to go to the quad wrangle the headmaster was adamant that we had seen nothing so it's not it now it's going from don't talk about it to you didn't see anything you didn't see what you think you saw that was something else or it was nothing yeah you know you forget that this ever happened and move on yep I mean that if that's strong armen right there I mean you know we're just we're gonna we're gonna threaten we're gonna tell these but not only are we gonna tell him hey we need to keep this quiet they're gonna tell him you didn't really see that at all yeah your gaslighting him which is a kid you know isn't that one of the worst things you can do is is have an adult not believe you or tell you straight out no that's not what you saw or that's not how it happened oh yeah I mean that's one of the most frustrating things as a kid that I remember is having an adult that just wouldn't listen but if that adult has been contacted by officials that says you're gonna lose your job at this school you know you'll never be able to teach again you'll probably have to leave Australia if you ever want to find an education job um don't talk about this and tell your students not to talk about it then you know he's he's gonna put some you know gravitas behind his words and really try to instill some fear in these students and you know Greenwood didn't think that it had anything to do with the headmaster threats as he says nobody really took him all that seriously um and he knew for a fact that the student that he spoke with didn't go to the meeting where he made the threat so that one student that talked about it in detail and then wouldn't say anything about it 30 minutes later um obviously somebody else had gotten to her right so somebody else had told her don't talk about it don't say it worked maybe talk about it you're gonna be in trouble right now Shane Ryan has investigated the West all incident for more than 15 years and Ryan says another piece of information has come through that somebody who lived locally to West all at the time said he knows personally one of the seven pilots who was up in the air from Moribon Airport and were witnesses to what happened that day and that's it there is there is no further information from Shane Ryan about what this potential pilot had to say um what he was doing what his instructions were um but you know he this person obviously claimed that they were one of the pilots that was flying around this thing but you know this this came out I think in 2021 you know so just not even two years ago so there's a really good chance that it hasn't been published yet but as I said at the beginning of the show there was some difficulty finding information on this at all other than just you know even the Wikipedia page is remarkably bear um for a UFO incident like this um so there there's a really good chance that that this article did come out and I couldn't obtain access to it but you know I tried because I thought okay here we go I'm gonna find out what this pilot say it's there's nothing there yeah I couldn't find it either I was curious myself and I looked and I didn't see it so I mean what what could this have been like I mean outside of the realm that it is a true UFO from wherever what else could it possibly have been um that these people would have mistaken for a UFO what would have prompted a response from the government like that huh I know what atoms gonna say yeah so let's look at some of the theories atom people have told us I got some I got some pretty dumb ones um then I want your thoughts on map so the one of the main reasons that I was telling you to pay attention to some parts of what Matt was saying was for this first theory that is put forth um it's from an article um from the herald son out of Melbourne so this says quote West all UFO incident was actually government radiation testing reports reveal radiation testing radiation testing it says although federal and state government agencies refused to comment about the 1966 West all incident at the time it is now believed that rather than a UFO what landed was an errant an errant high altitude balloon used to monitor radiation levels after the controversial Marlinga nuclear tests the Hibble program was a joint US Australian initiative to monitor atmospheric radiation levels using large silver balloons equipped with sensors between 1960 and 1969 documents held by the national archives and former department of supply indicate one test balloon launched from mildura may have been blown off course and came down in Clayton South in a paddock near West all high school alarming and baffling hundreds of eyewitnesses including teachers and students says after hovering over the area it landed at an area known as the grain behind the grove of pine trees before taking off again and being pursued by several light aircraft in a siding which lasted 20 minutes from 11am on April 6 1966 so I just at Matt okay now when have we heard before that it was just a balloon a weather balloon a high at altitude balloon yeah well many times almost every time yeah it's a a go to excuse and they must have learned from the uh Roswell crash that the balloon theory will work but what they're saying is that the the weather balloon was to test this radiation and it landed and then took off again and landed again and it was followed by light aircraft the problem is the witnesses say that there was intelligent control of the craft that it did not let the planes get too close to it they didn't call them light aircraft they were uh air force they said yeah it says planes everything I saw said planes right so it wasn't like hang gliders or whatever you know or by wings or that some they're out there with like a a parachute and a big fan strapped on their back flying around those little uh bicycles that they before they invented their plane where they would run and rotate like the propellers above them they're out there chasing it down and one of those uh maybe they work maybe those things worked in Australia I don't know but hell I got choked when you said um but the way this article puts it is that it was just a balloon that landed near them and they mistook this balloon for a UFO and there are pictures of a similar to what they're talking about balloon that they're showing and I mean the the Hibble thing yeah that was a deal they were testing they I mean but it makes for a good excuse to brush this off right right I mean you know and and sure I'm sure a lot of UFO reports could directly be related to weather balloons sure if you just see it off in the distance yeah right I mean you don't know what it is it's moving kind of weird um but you know they're not all weather balloons and weather balloons don't typically move with any kind of control other than the wind right I was gonna say they follow the direction of the wind they won't go against the wind right they don't I mean they don't turn they just go straight with the wind and yes I can see it touching down and coming back up that's possible we've seen I mean hot air balloons can do it I've seen helium balloons do it they float down to the bottom you know hit the ground and then they kind of float back up a little bit but they don't usually take off at an accelerated rate right and yeah dodge airplanes yeah to move away from something that's observing them mm-hmm and then as they catch up to it it moves away again right so that's the thing it was it would stop after it got a certain distance away it would stop and basically wait on them to get close to it yeah it wasn't a steady pace of a balloon it's just I don't I don't know it doesn't it doesn't really make sense based on the the mobility of what the witnesses saw that it could have been a weather balloon I mean the the look of it everything that yeah it it probably did look similar to the to the hibble balloon but they didn't move like that right so it just that that seems to rule it out right there mm-hmm and I'll try to in patreon try to post a picture of that hibble high altitude balloon and the picture that is going around that is supposedly the circular impression that was made by the craft when it landed because there was a drawing that showed a large circular area with three points in the center of it in kind of a triangle pattern where it touched down but then there's also a photograph of a circular depression and tall grass that is claimed to be from the west all you have both sides where it landed and I'll post both of those in patreon and you tell me if you think that balloon could create a circular depression like what is in the ground but then also take off again because if this balloon landed and created a circular depression the balloon would have deflated and laid on the ground it would not have been able to get back up and fly off again right yeah exactly and when you see those pictures of the depression and that kind of stuff it makes you think yeah something something touched down and was there long enough to create a depression and then took off again something heavy yeah yeah something heavy all right so the next next one I've got it kind of it ties into that that first thing it says the theory is misidentification and that this one theory suggests that the witnesses may have misidentified conventional objects or phenomena such as weather balloons aircraft or natural atmospheric phenomena according to this theory the witnesses perception and interpretation of the events could have been influenced by various factors leading to a mistaken belief in the presence of a UFO I don't think and and I see this a lot I'm sure you do too Matt that during UFO encounters one of the major debunking arguments and what I've got is basically the same debunking arguments that we see in every UFO incident but it's atmospheric phenomena now granted there are some crazy atmospheric phenomena that happens some of it that you wouldn't think would happen like the sprites that happen from lightning they flicker up you know above the clouds in the atmosphere the ground to cloud lightning uh uh ball lightning all kinds of stuff it's all weird atmospheric phenomena however I don't think you can say atmospheric phenomena would make 300 plus witnesses describe the same type of craft doing the same thing hmm right because yeah okay atmospheric phenomena all right I don't even know what atmospheric phenomena would resemble a UFO shaped like that and if it was atmospheric phenomena why would there be jets following it yeah right what would they following you know are they are they storm chasers or something yeah exactly I think if it was something like this and it was an atmospheric phenomenon it would it would be dangerous to some degree yeah yeah you certainly wouldn't have planes um chasing after it and it moving away from them right and then having all these it's right there by a school you know you're not somebody's not contacting school going get the kids inside it's a you know there's something dangerous outside what yeah ball lightning they could die get them inside yeah none of that was happening right at least right there were no reports of that happening right all right so this next one is it's it's my hands down favorite and my favorite I mean least favorite the the one that my favorite I hate it yeah basically yeah and you'll know it when I say it because I have expressed my opinions on this before but mass hysteria or hoax oh yeah says another theory uh reports that the incident was a result of mass hysteria or a deliberate hoax it suggests that the witnesses may have been influenced by each other's beliefs or that a small group orchestrated the event to gain attention or create a sensation skeptics argue that the lack of concrete physical evidence and a limited official investigation supports this theory now you know how I feel about mass hysteria in order for something to be hysteria for your brain to play a trick on you like you get so scared you know let's say you're being robbed and you've got a gun pointed at your face you are going to be hysterical and that gun is going to seem like it's 45 feet long yeah it's the biggest thing that you've ever seen this is a monster of a person they're ginormous they're mean they're angry they probably got smoke billowing out of their beard like black beard the pirate something okay what that is is your brain coping with something and your internal thoughts feelings memories and everything playing into and creating a narrative yeah right in order for 300 plus people to have the same mass hysteria event their memories their feelings their imagination everything would have to be the same and that's mine and yours are not right mine and Ashley's are not now you and your sons are not but the mass hysteria theory makes that necessary for it to be true and I that can't happen that I'm sorry but you can't have a group of 300 people imagine the exact same thing because you get a lot of eyewitnesses in a crime that will describe different things though they were both witness to the same vehicle driving away some of them will say was blue some of them say it's red so I hate the mass hysteria argument and that one needs to be scrubbed from the bush yeah just take it out debunkers think of something else mass hysteria is not a valid argument I'm sorry it's not so find another low hanging fruit if you're going to try to debunk something don't go with mass hysteria and the hoax thing if it were a hoax why are there planes chasing a hoax yeah exactly and even if it was a good enough hoax that it would have prompted this kind of response how how did they make it move away who's who's got the balls to you know to go up air forces here we're done we're done geek is up whatever no to keep toying with it and then be able to get it away okay I had a drone in 1960 true absolutely I mean where was the technology for somebody that would be willing to to do some kind of hoax like this where where did they get this from you know what what what kind of support I'll tell you this it wasn't one person if it was it was a group of people and what do we know about a group of people in something like this somebody will talk yeah in in the 50 some odd years since this happened somebody was gonna talk sure if it was a hoax at least said they did it for the recognition they'd say yeah I was part of that hoax look what we did we got the government to chase us you know so I know you know nobody wants to go to jail no you know so yeah they were all scared but somebody somebody if they were involved in in a group of people that were perpetrating a hoax I think in this amount of time somebody would have finally come forward or somebody on their deathbed would have said hey we were we were responsible for the West Hall UFO thing and then you know pass on yep what's like that saying the only way for two people to keep a secret is for one of them to be dead right so you can't have two three four five people however many it would have taken to pull this off never say anything since 1966 so I don't I mean could it have been a hoax maybe maybe so what yeah seriously doubt it yeah I seriously doubt it because you're at this small school outside Melbourne it's not like you're doing it in downtown Melbourne you know if you did that okay maybe there'd be a little more notoriety and I would say maybe it was a hoax somebody was screwing with the the people of the town but you're in West all well what's out there yeah it's not a not a huge hub so and then the mass hysteria thing just I'm not even going to entertain that anymore yeah I mean you know that to think of this as a hoax you would expect that somebody would have been able to uncover it like those meddling teenagers and their lousy dog I mean does that not sound like something like that I mean it's a Scooby-Doo episode for crying out loud somebody has got some nefarious plan and they perpetrate this hoax in order to draw attention away from whatever it was they were doing but the problem was is there's there's no evidence that anything happened while this was going on and everybody's attention was looking up it wasn't like the school guy robbed or taken over or anything right right so it just doesn't it doesn't make sense that this much time has passed and like I said either somebody has decided to come clean or there was some evidence that somebody was benefiting you know financially or somehow to doing this and yeah we hadn't seen that right all right so I've got two more each is ridiculous is the last but the first of the last two some theories explore the possibility of psychological factors playing a role in the West all UFO they suggest that witnesses may have experienced hallucinations illusions or altered states of consciousness leading to leading them to perceive something extraordinary that wasn't objectively present what did you pump in hallucinations into the school like somebody's out there smoking mushrooms of the school that's what I was going to say I wish we had the menu for lunch that day today's pizza is what it was I was very steak with mushrooms yeah wink wink everybody's hallucinating all the brownies for dessert you get the maybe it was I was for brownies maybe that didn't everybody trip the same way on I wasca you know that's kind of the story but they puked their guts out prior to and I remember any any saying but yeah they I wasca actually we want to do an episode on the machine elves from I was so if this was I wasca they would have all seen machine elves they wouldn't have seen a UFO being chased by five yeah and they would have all puked yeah but what would cause 300 plus people students and adults the kids adults ranging in age to all hallucinate or have an altered state of consciousness for 20 to 30 minutes to experience a UFO incident I I don't even have a theory as to what could have done that and oh yeah they're scared which can alter your state of consciousness like I just said about the being robbed thing but 300 people exactly yeah the psychological factor argument doesn't work for me so the last one I got is another explanation positive that witnesses memories of the event may have become distorted over time memory can be subject to errors this says inaccuracies and external influences which could have shaped the way witnesses recall and interpret the incident okay except that what some said they saw initially is what they still say they saw nothing's changed and according to Andrew Greenwood the other people that he has spoken to that have relayed their story relay the exact same story exactly and and there are others students now that have come forward you know they're all you know older adults now yeah you know they were they were 10 years older or 13 14 years old back in 1966 they're all adults probably have grandchildren and and they're coming forward and saying yeah this this it's this is real this really happened and we were that's the other key is they all say we were told not to talk about it right we were threatened not to talk about it and some will say we'll see that proves that it was the radiation testing because they wanted to keep that a secret no but why would you allow it to be a UFO sighting if it was actually balloon a you radiation testing and what why the hell would you do radiation testing that close to a school right I mean that doesn't mean it blew off track but how can something blow that far off track when you're going from the testing the Marlinga um Adam bomb thing to now you're in West all I don't know but that that's all the debunking theories I've got and all the crap I can talk about them so Matt what what do you think happened what what do you think that this was I honestly think that this was an unknown craft um whether it was alien or it was another country we don't know I'm not saying 100% that it was an alien craft um but it was definitely foreign of some ilk and the Air Force wanted to check it out and they needed to check it out as soon as possible so it didn't want them to check it out right it it wanted to kind of play games with them and back away from them and and keep them at a distance um but what I I know a lot of people will will look at not just you and I but other other people um that that talk about UAPs and UFOs and all this and you're going well you debunk all these theories because you want it to be a UFO and in reality sure I do I'll be honest I want it to be real I mean I think that would be so cool but I want it to be real enough that I will absolutely entertain any plausible explanation to show that it's something else because I don't want to believe in something that is a hoax or an experimental aircraft or whatever weather balloons I don't care I I don't want to say look we have no idea what this is and it legitimately be something else so the reason we debunk these theories is because they're garbage I mean they are garbage come come to me with a solid theory as to what this was and explain to me how it moved why did you ask all these students to not talk about it why did you threaten teachers with their jobs um if it wasn't something else if it was a weather balloon who cares who cares I mean nobody's going to care you certainly aren't going to go to a headmaster of a school and go listen you could lose your job if you talk about this it's a weather balloon why not just telling hey hey I bet you got students out there looking at this weather balloon um it's it's blown off course we we've dispatched pilots to try to make sure that it doesn't land in a residential area we're watching it keep your kids inside we don't want anything falling off of this thing and the headmaster's like oh thank you so much for the call hey everybody let's get these students in you don't threaten them right right you know you don't threaten somebody you tell them hey this is what this is and for our safety we need to be inside and then you allow them to talk about it and say this is what happened because if you then keep it a secret then the theories start that's right the wild the wild theories start when you try to silence something so I mean like I said yeah I want it to be something you know unusual and explained I do but even more than that I want an explanation as to what it really was and then I'll be like hey it sounds good to me I mean Lord knows on this show enough we have gone and said yeah this don't sound real you know this sounds made up this sounds like a hoax this sounds like somebody attention seeking this doesn't really sound like any of that no and I was going to say the same thing I'm like if you have a valid theory that debunks it being a UFO I'm more than happy to have that because I would rather have an explanation than not have an explanation for this but you can't just throw word salad out there and expect that to be okay with us you know if you start saying mass hysteria or that all of these kids were tripping and having hallucinations once I'm not going to just gobble that up because you said it and I don't want to believe in UFOs so I'm gonna say that's the thing and I think that's the big deal is the argument that you and I and people like us would debunk the debunking is because we want to believe but we can say that about the other thing too you're throwing these invalid wild-ass theories out here because you don't want there to be UFOs yeah you absolutely do not want there to be anything unexplained so you will try to explain it with craziness mm-hmm rather than have a mystery and I'm okay with a mystery I think you know you you can take out a step further if you're a military and you're charged with protecting your country what you don't want is for your countrymen to believe that you're inept at being able to do this and that something just flew over a school that could have could have had explosives could have been loaded down with weapons you know you you want everybody to feel like hey our military can protect us I mean we had something similar to this earlier this year in the US and we've done a show about all of these balloons these spy balloons that were shot down over the period of about a week um you know the the US military wanted to show hey we're we're handling this we're on top of it we're watching it you know we're making sure it's not dangerous we're going to take it down okay but we're also going to give you a bunch of crap about what it really like leave the crap part out of it you know just tell me what you think it was even if you don't really know just give me give me your best guess you know if you just if you just flat out don't know then just say we don't know we don't really know what this is where it came from nobody's owning up to it um that's why we were flying planes at it we don't know what it is either that's right um you know I I hate that that governments don't give their people enough credit um that you know you you can't reason with population but you know to be honest if we look at the last 20 years especially in the United States you know reason went out the window a long time ago but nonetheless you know I really think at the time in 1966 um for the Australian military to respond to this the way they did and yet nobody was supposed to talk about it or discuss it it just it's too much of a mystery and now with people coming forward alien not alien whatever something happened that day um people witnessed this people were threatened and it's only now years later that information is beginning to trickle out and and trickle is the optimum word here I mean it is you are not getting a day loose of info I mean it is you know it is it is dribbling off the chin that is it yeah but you know we we always do this we always say tell us what you think but I'm gonna take it a step further well I know we have a lot of listeners in Australia um you guys have access to news outlets and information that Adam and I do not if you know something about this if you have seen something about it um if if you have anything else um let us know and of course if it's something you even though our Facebook group is private if it's something you don't feel comfortable sharing even in a semi public forum you know shoot shoot graveyard tells a message um you know we we will keep it private if you tell us hey don't mention this on the show or on the air anything we will absolutely abide by that um but I would have no idea how how good Matt and I all right keep in secrets that's right like that time you and that oh yeah exactly never mind you didn't hear anything but do reach out to us and let us know um hopefully we get some more information we can do a follow up down the line to see what the latest um what the latest theories or ideas are if any new witnesses have come forward uh to share what they saw hey and I mean good or bad if you if you if you've got an explanation that says this is exactly what it was and here's the evidence great I'd love to see it because we couldn't find it um but as I said I mentioned our Facebook group um it it is a private group and it is there for people to share those kind of stories and not worry about being ridiculed or called a nut job or anything like that we just love to hear these kind of stories and personal experiences are the absolute best um and when you're done with that you can go check out our website which is graveyardpodcast.com and there you can find links to purchase graveyard tells merchandise you can listen to the show and you can become a patron and as Adam mentioned earlier uh we're we're recording bonus episodes tonight after we do this show we've got some really cool ones and we've got some amazing ones in our catalog um you know you you got that summer road trip that you're going to take this year hey listen to some extra graveyard tales along the way that you hadn't heard before hey it's a great way to pass those uh those long car rides so and patron allows you to add an rss link into your pod catcher so you can listen to all of our bonus episodes same way the same way it would a regular main episode it's like it's like some kind of magic voodoo just it's all of a sudden you've got extra graveyard tale that's crazy I don't know how they do it it's magic I know I know um but man this I tell you what I had I had only heard mention of this maybe a time or two um but this this was this was extraordinary interesting I hope we get some more information from our Australian listeners but until next time we'll save you a seat in the graveyard see you soon you