240: Appalachian Legends

Alright, so Matt, there was this sheep farmer and he's got this talking dog, right? Well, yeah, one day he asked it to go get all of his sheep into the pen So a little while later the dog comes back and he goes job's done. I got all 40 sheep accounted for And the farmer goes 40 I don't have 40. I have 36 sheep not 40 and the dog goes I know I rounded him up Good evening everybody and welcome to the graveyard. Thank you for joining us tonight. My name is Adam and my name's Matt. Now We'll up a tombstone or settle into your casket and get comfortable because this is Grave your tails All right everybody here we are again Matt. How you doing tonight brother? Man, I am better than I was last week. Yeah Yeah, you were you were struggle bus in last week for sure. Oh lowered voice. Voice came back. Everything feeling good. So good You got better. I got a toothache. So you know all good things Going to the dentist tomorrow. 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So it's very tactile and and you can use it as a fidget thing or Like I did as a fidget thing and breathing through it to get that sensation as well So if you're interested in the fume and you're interested in breaking a bad habit Then all you've got to do is go to try fume that's tr-y-f-u-m Dotcom slash tails and use our code tails t-a-l-e-s to save 10% when you get the journey pack and do that today Yeah, try fume Instead of electronics, it's completely natural instead of vapor It's flavored air and instead of harmful chemicals fume uses all natural delicious flavors So to try fume today head to try fume tr-y-f-u-m dot com And use our code tails T-a-l-e-s and you'll save 10% off when you order the journey pack But Matt That's all the housekeeping and stuff that I got. So why don't you tell us what are we talking about tonight, brother? Okay, so tonight We're gonna we're gonna cover a A really broad topic. We're we're gonna try and narrow it down to our focus Um, but we're gonna talk about the legends of Appalachia. Mm-hmm And That would be saying we're gonna, you know, like we're gonna talk about um How many different kinds of fish there are Okay, okay, I mean, you know a huge broad topic, but There are so many stories and legends that come out of Appalachia um That aren't just You know the routine, you know, it's You know the the like we talk about every every every town's got one of these haunted railroad tracks, and you know They are haunted bridge if you if you go over it and you you you you you you you you honk your horn and The those are all over the country, but there are So many legends that are a part of Appalachian history. Oh, yeah, that was one of my favorite things about living up there in Appalachia was the yeah The just the the stories and the legends that you got from the old timers and all that yeah Yeah, and you know these these aren't always Just let me sit down and and you know spin a yarn about something that happened to me when I was a kid It's more than that. Yeah, it's more than that. It is it is ingrained in the history. Oh yeah, and you know Right here where I am I We're right here on the edge Of what is considered Appalachia and it's it's a much bigger area than I think most people realize Think so many people think about you know northern Virginia west Virginia Um Kentucky. Yeah, Kentucky Most of the people have those that that region in mind when they think of it But it stretches so far and Adam's gonna get more into the into the geography of it That you know You're you're looking at southerners northerners You know people that live in the mountains live yeah, I mean It's it's it's just all over the board And I think that's what makes these these legends So special is you know they they come from the backgrounds of all walks of life But that's something that everybody has in common, you know are are these are these stories so As always to to understand where these stories come from why why they have um Such a unique quality we got to talk about the history of the region and and the people And the geography and everything and then you can better understand how these stories come about so so Adam Uh talk to us about Appalachia all right So as we always say go check our sources down on the bottom of the show notes This is another one of those episodes As Matt and I were saying before the mics came on there is no way That either of us Could extensively cover in depth our side of the research There's no way So we will have the sources down the bottom of the show notes where you can find Where we found all this information plus If something in here intrigues you you can continue that information and find more about it than we were able to cover Because this may be a fairly long episode anyway But we can't do a six hour podcast, you know, we're not Joe Rogan with his four to six hour show we can't do that I think some art listeners just dozed off when you said that yeah probably Six hour six hour podcast If you're monotone voice that ain't happening Um now I'll talk more about this later But the earliest European settlers to the Appalachian region Were originally from the Highlands bordering Scotland in England with many arriving by way of Ulster Ireland So these Scotch Irish settlers as they became known formed the core community of what is known today as the central Appalachian region Which spans parts of Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia But the Appalachian mountains Are in and like Matt was saying it's extensive They're in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, Washington, DC Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont and Maine I mean, that's the eastern seaboard. Yeah, basically really basically. Yeah The whole eastern seaboard is pretty much considered Part of the Appalachian region Now obviously it's not all the mountains and hollers of the Appalachian mountains, but it's Appalachian basins The Appalachian lowlands It's stuff like that, but it's still part of the Appalachian range now Let's look at some of the plant and animal life From Appalachia So from Maine to Georgia the Appalachian mountain system was once almost totally covered with forest Today some of the best and most extensive broadleaf deciduous forest in the world still flourish in the Appalachians and bordering areas Notably in southern Appalachia, which is Tennessee, Georgia that kind of thing Now to the north are the conifers so red spruce balsam fern which grow the high at the highest elevations And distinguish the Canadian and Maine woods And the northern hardwood sugar maple buckeye beach ash birch and red and white oak So farther south of the hickory popular walnut sycamore and at one time the important and before they were destroyed by blight plentiful chestnuts so I I honestly didn't know that that was new to me, but they In in the Southern part of Appalachia there were chestnut trees just plentiful chestnut trees But then a blight came through and wiped them out And we lost all our chestnuts so we can't roast them on an open fire now We have to import our chestnuts to roast over an open fire, which just imported chestnuts are just not the same That's right I mean we lost we lost our nuts Yep, and now we have to import homegrown USA nuts are the best for USA people Outside the US you might not like homegrown USA nuts, you know, that's right. That's right but Now all of these plus A lot of the other 140 species of trees of Appalachia are found in the southern mountain region Now the interdependent system of southern plant growth known as the Appalachian forest is highly complex So it's estimated that of some 2000 species of Appalachian flora perhaps 200 are native and wholly confined To the southern Appalachians So ferns mosses and mushrooms of many species are also part of the complex Appalachian plant life so If you go into Appalachian mountains in the southern region you're going to see stuff there That you don't see anywhere else in the world Yeah, which very similar to when we were talking about the Big thicket their stuff in there that you don't see anywhere else It always amazes me when I look into different regions the Especially in North America because we forget How vast and how Unique some of these areas are we go. Okay, we're going to We're going to North Carolina you go to the city and you stay in the city Stay in a hotel and you come home. If you get out into the woods You get out into the the country area of these states there's it's still vast unique area of land and You forget that when you live in the city and only travel to the cities So it just amazes me when you see this and that ties into The legends if you spend your time in the cities you may get the you know catchy little Things of oh, we got you know bigemic big foot lives here whatever But you get out into the the country parts The mountainous regions and you get some of those wild legends that are just amazing oh, yeah, yeah I mean, we're going to get more into them, but they if there's just so many of them and And they're like I said earlier. They're tied to that region because of How unique the forests are um the the mountains and I think a lot of the mystique that comes with Not just the a mountain range It comes from the people That inhabit Those mountains right and I you know, I'm not I'm not talking about you know off the gritters or any of that stuff the people that Settled there The people that made that land their own seven eight 12th generation living and and they nourished it and they they they treasured it And they they made sure that it was there for generations to come and That is what really makes it so fascinating When it comes to these legends and stories Because they were they were passed down they were retold they were retold people Went to great lengths to To keep these stories because it was not just a story it was A story associated with the history right right and and and you know that's really great And I think that that pride and in Those areas is what's kept these stories live for all these decades I agree Now one thing we need to look at to Understand maybe some of these legends is the animals that live there currently and used to live there So bison elk and wolves were once common to the Appalachians, but they disappeared long ago But elk subsequently have returned to the northern part of the mountain range Now caribou and moose are still found in the northern most corners of this region But scattered through other areas are the black bear white-tailed deer wild boar fox raccoon beaver and numerous other small animals All areas of Appalachia support an abundant bird life in the Smoky mountains alone There's 200 varieties of game birds and songbirds And that's just the ones that they've recorded Right So you get into some of those areas. There's probably stuff in there that they have not recorded yet that only live in that area So who settled there? Well, we kind of touched on that, but The settlers culture already distinctive was enriched by the influence of the original Cherokee As well as by the later influx of Swedish finish and German woodsman enslaved Africans and Welsh miners So the resulting mix fords a uniquely American culture which was fiercely independent had its own style of music, art, folklore and speech Mm-hmm Now the Appalachian region was birthplace to several entertainers. So Lucille Ball Patsy Klein Cormac McCarthy and scholars like Henry Lewis Gates Jr And Appalachia offers a rich slice of American history because of that and just because of where it is But as we're going to talk about it's often steeped in mythic lore and stereotyped as backward uncultured and poor So yeah, I mean even for You know hicks like me and you we've heard those Yeah, though those story all the dang hillbillies You know, which I'll Touch on why and why they're called hillbillies if if you didn't know that but Then he is when you talk about the mountains Yeah, West Virginia Kentucky stuff like that people even Tennessee people like oh they're backwards Oh, yeah, crazy, you know hillbillies up there I mean, yeah, it's a it's a big it's a big part of of Tennessee, you know the The idea of You know hillbillies and and folks that live up in the mountains being Yeah, backward. That's a good. That's a good way to put it Um, it's not true Well for some people it is As a as a as a rule yeah, it's not General out generality is not much, but for some people it's very true But there but there was There was different culture that from The outside looking in May appear, you know backwards or odd just because it's different Well, and um just because that happens here. I mean that happens in Tennessee, you know, oh yeah people here Accent like mine or accent like yours and go man. They dumb Like numb as hell Actually, I'm your doctor to not serve so you shut up So the various eastern woodland Indian groups live there including the pinnacle the mohiken the Susca suscahana all Inhabited the northern half of Appalachia for centuries before the European settlements and in the southern mountains the Cherokee were predominant So warfare and eviction had driven most of the Indian population from the mountains by the mid 19th century So They well we'll talk about it The Cherokee were one of the major indigenous tribes in the Appalachia mountains where the European settlers came in and and all that so We'll look at them briefly Um the Cherokee were hunters and gatherers forging the great smoky mountains in the lowlands of the southern Appalaches for food while hunting fishing and trapping game So by 2000 BC Cherokee culture had spread over hundreds of miles of mountains Governed by their clan system and town leaders Well, they passed on their history and religious beliefs through storytelling ceremonies and dances Which is still how a lot of their culture has passed on I think it's Amazing anytime I see a Native American ceremony. It's just amazing to me It You know that's it's the legend and the culture and the history of the northern Northern America You know and it's just it's great to see it still live on but In 1540 Spanish explorer and conquistador Hernando de Soto Came through here looking for gold demanding food fighting and enslaving the people So worse were the diseases that came with him lacking the immunity to combat them indigenous peoples were nearly eradicated Victim to plague such a small smallpox measles and influenza well the early European settlers were primarily scotch scotch Irish Presbyterians like I mentioned they were from northern Ireland and Palatinate Germans, so the the later Immigrants in large numbers between 1720 and 1760 were fleeing religious persecutions and economic hardships which that That kind of drove that Independent quality that I mentioned earlier, you know, they were fleeing this persecution from their homeland so they came here and they they set up shop in a very difficult area and laid claim to it and that's where some of that You know that Appalachian independence. I don't need your your city ways came from Yeah settled first in Pennsylvania they gradually moved westward Then along with others ventured down the greater Appalachian Valley of Virginia and North Carolina Other early settlers moved inland from Carolina Piedmont over the regions into Kentucky and Tennessee which became states in 1790 and 96 respectively So they traveled by wagon and horseback following river valleys and Indian game trails Crossing the parallel ridges where streams had cut through the mountain chains at places like Saluda gap just south of present-day Asheville on the north The north Carolina South Carolina line and the Cumberland gap which is the furthest west Point of Virginia on the Kentucky Tennessee border So most pioneers moved through the southern Appalachians to the Ohio River Valley onto Missouri, Arkansas and further westward But a permanent population Attracted by the mountains remained in the valleys and coves to live by hunting stock raising and farming By 1755 the Cumberland gap area had several permanent clusters of dwellings Whattauga became the first settlement in Tennessee in 1768 After 1810 the stream of pioneer settlers began to slow and by the 1830s in it all but stopped The last major influx of pioneer migration to the southern Appalachians occurred after gold was discovered near Dallonega, Georgia in 1828 by 1830 between 6,000 and 10,000 people lived in northern Georgia, but many left when the gold rush ended Now when the pioneers first entered the southern Appalachians they encountered the Cherokee culture like I said Trade between the white settlers and the Native Americans developed early and was a means of mutual influence You know pioneers learned from the Cherokee what crops to cultivate how to farm and where to wear and how to hunt And the Native Americans received material goods From the white settlers So the two cultures however did not remain compatible over the course of the 18th century as settlers moved into the mountains The Native American territory was circumscribed between 1767 and 1836 Through a series of controversial treaties between the Cherokees and the state of North Carolina The Native Americans under severe pressure gradually relinquished all tribal lands east of the Mississippi river Although about 2000 Cheroke uh Cherokees voluntarily immigrated to the west Many were hunted down Forcibly removed and marched to Oklahoma by federal troops after 1838 So many of them died on this trail, and that's what we know as the trail of tears mm-hmm Now there's a band of a thousand Cherokees refused to leave and instead hid in the great Smoky Mountains So in 1878 with the aid of an attorney William H. Thomas These quote fugitive Cherokees obtained title over 60,000 acres of land in Swain and Jackson counties In North Carolina, which is site of the present Kuala reservation So the the mountains became Basically a land of scattered self-sufficient quote island communities That were divided by the hills and the ridges and stuff like that so these Communities generally consisted of like small clusters of two or three homes Which were within easy walking distance of each other And groups of neighbors were often kinfolk So you live next to your grandparents and then your brother lived on the other side uh later Generations added to these clusters, but they they were rarely more than a dozen households together Commercial settlements often developed at a gap at like a crossroads or at the mouth of a large hollow But they were small usually containing only one or two stores a mill a church in a school Larger towns were widely scattered and slow to grow so That that can still be seen in some areas of Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia Where you've got people that live down in these hollars And it was told to me when I first moved to Tennessee That If you're in an area you don't know Don't drive into a holler that you don't know who is there because For advice for decades centuries they handled their own Law Mm-hmm and you might just get disappeared for stepping on someone's property And they may not find you in Appalachia So if you don't know who's in the holler don't go traipsing down in a holler You know nowadays, it's probably not as bad But you still will probably get harassed and stuff if you just start Driving into some families holler there but it's just it's interesting to me that That that is not a new thing That is something that from The time it was settled by the pioneers that they did each family had their own little holler or plain area and The next family was the next holler over and You'd have to travel a long way to get to him. You were basically isolated with you and your family there So it was it was like your own little paradise or a lot of people Now in 1775 Daniel Boone established a route west through the Cumberland gap in Virginia into Kentucky So the route west led to monumental expansion the United States And their original 13 colonies and made boon a famous folk figure in Appalachia history in the in the process So if you live in Appalachia, you're gonna know about Daniel Boone. Yep. Oh, yeah So the quote hillbillies of Appalachia were Scott Irish immigrants and they were referred to By settlers as Billy boys Due to their support of William of Orange Hillbillies were derided as often wild You know often reclusive mountain people with fiercely Law with fierce loyalty to family and a rejection of authority They're also often associated with poverty in the Appalachia mountains So which is true, but it came from the term Billy boys So if you want to call somebody something that they don't know what the heck you're talking about calling the Billy boy I know I guess I've never heard that term That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, I thought it was neat um it it's It gives a little history of the why they were hillbillies Yeah, you don't you hear it you've always said it you've always Been called it, but you don't know where it comes from so and and I really honestly Wasn't thinking that I would hear will William of Orange tonight. I just Now it's just not It's not a historical figure you discuss very often until doing this research. I didn't think I'd say it So we always mention how old the Appalaches are But how old are they actually? So Appalachia mountains in contrast to the pointy peaks of the Rockies They're weathered and rounded with gradual slopes low-rounded peaks and soft edges Well in geologic terms this shows a vast difference in age between the mountains Think about how long it takes rain wind and dirt to a road an entire mountain peak Mm-hmm So if you just look at the yeah the Appalachians are lower Then the Rockies are that doesn't mean they're younger That means they're older yeah Um They're mountains growing reverse Basically, I mean they start out big and then they gradually get smaller as they get older At their tallest point the Appalachians were likely as tall as the modern-day Rocky Mountains or the Alps So when they finished growing they were Rocky Mountain Alps size Um, we don't know for sure because the age of them we hadn't been keeping records of them for long enough to Yeah, no for sure but The Appalachian Mountains are the shortest of the three U.S. mountain ranges with an average elevation of Less than half of the other two ranges so the the Rockies and the Sierra Nevada's So Appalachians on the east Rockies in the middle Sierra Nevada on the west Kind of think of it that way So the highest peak of the Appalachian Mountains is Mount Mitchell in North Carolina It reaches 6,684 feet above sea level in the Rockies Mount Elbert stands 14,440 feet above sea level Yeah, quite a difference Now the Appalachian Mountains were formed during the Ortevisian period roughly 480 million years ago But it's not the whole story Although the modern Appalachians were formed almost half a billion years ago The process has been like likely Going around a lot longer than that In fact the region where the current mountain sit has been through a few cycles of mountain building each lasting between 305 million years So the initial growth of the mountain range so the first cycle where they were formed likely began over one billion years ago when North and South America fused together for the first time Additionally the rocks that make up the mountains formed around 1.2 billion years ago So asking quote how old are the Appalachians is kind of a tough question to answer Well this next bit is a snippet from Steve Kite who's a geology professor at West Virginia University And he talks about the cycles of growth and erosion in regards to the Appalachian through time He says quote there were a couple mountain building episodes And those mountains formed and then were wore down Things were kind of quiet Then those mountains formed even later about 450 million years ago And those wore down and things were kind of quiet And then about 360 million years ago another mountain building episode and then the big Alleghenian mountain building episode In quote so The Appalachia area has gone through several cycles of growth and erosion Well scientists are a bit confused as to how the modern Appalachia so the most recent building period even began Some even think it's the result of the geologic activity on the west coast near the Rockies So if there is a ton of activity deep under the earth on one side of the country It could easily affect the other regardless the current period of the Appalachians likely began around 20 million years ago when the current topography we see began to settle The initial mountains were clearly Clearly formed when the North American plate began to press up against the African plate So if you look at a map The topography map We have the Appalachians on the east coast of the United States Then if you look on the west coast of Africa There is a mountain range those at one point were connected when When Pangaea Was a thing and then they ripped apart and started wearing down So Real interesting how old Appalachia is but uh Like I said the most recent growth is the the most puzzling part to them because The the mountains were worn down to a flat plain region and were brought back during the Cinezoic era But they they don't know how for sure What we see the Appalachians Were raised back up So This makes me think and and and I've told you this before Matt I don't remember if I've said it on an episode before or not But if we look at the age of the Appalachians We look at how long they've been around You know, let's let's take out the building and and Wearing down thought let's just think about that area how long it's been Mountains because even after it wears down There's caves There's stuff that's still going to be there from the the mountain What could the Appalachians hold You know, I I'm a firm believer that there are Spirits entities whatever that have been here since the dawn of time what a lot of Old horror writers would call the ancient ones You know, I think there there are things on our planet like that That have been here from maybe before the dawn of humanity So If that's the case In North America one of the few places that I think they could hide and stay hidden Would be the Appalachian mountain range You know and and if you think about that Then that Kind of helps you understand some of the legends That that Matt's going to get into some of the The stories that are told maybe some of the creep factor Because there are some Spooky-ass places in the Appalachian mountain range Yes, there's a lot of beautiful beautiful places But there's some places you go That as soon as you go down in this holler and it's not because of the Billy boys that live there You get this creepy feeling you feel like you're being watched Yeah, feel like your skin's crawling something's walking up on you Why is that well it could be due to the age of the area There is something ancient that lives within the Appalachian mountain range Yeah, and I I agree a hundred percent And especially with the idea that if If there's something like that in North America that is where it's going to be yep So considering all that We can we can look into some of the stories and legends that are associated With Appalachian And I've kind of I've kind of reorganized this several times but This is this is how we're going to because we like I said at the beginning we've got a lot of different things there's there's I tried to get as much variety into this as I could um But but Adam was talking about the the wildlife that live there Um the wildlife that currently lives there But when we're talking about how old The the mountains are how old the region is There's bound to be some other things that That we're there at one point that aren't there anymore, but there may be something Lingerying on yep such as the silver giant Things we don't know about that we have a cataloged Yeah, and yeah, it could be something legit yeah, so the silver giant is is similar to a bear Um Except it can run According to legend as easily on two legs as it can on four Now when standing upright The silver giant is between nine and eleven feet tall. So this this thing is really really large Um The fur is generally dark, but it has a silver streak of hair running down its back So the the silver giant is a is a legendary animal from from this region um With numerous sightings of What would easily be mistaken as a bear but It's a really really big bear and Black black bears don't get to be just they certainly don't get between nine and eleven feet tall no no That's grisly Uh grisly size or polar bearer size Yeah, or so to have something that big living in the Appalachian range Is not something categorized by scientists But could it be an ancient species still lingering on Could it be like a hybrid you know something that You know as has got is is bear, but you know, it's um It's a genetic mutation or it's uh You know i A conglomeration of of grisly and black bear brown bear those kind of things who knows um But it is often it it is often talked about uh You know by You know people in the in the mountainous region um As if You know there's There's still some out there You know they you know it's it's been spotted and the and that that unique silver streak that goes down its back You know now it now being his thing maybe it's part bear part gorilla Yeah, I was gonna say it Park silverback Yes, the silverback the North American silverback gorilla. Yeah actually that that was that was my uncle, but Ha And in the same vein this I dig this one just because the name is so cool the smoke wolf um The solid black smoke wolf is a massive canine That said to have eyes is red as the sun Now one witness who claims to have heard the smoke wolves howl and scream at night Uh out on his property says these things are pure evil Saying that these wolves They kill for fun for sport, you know not for hunting um And and it's just really uh, I mean it's it sounds to me like um Like a almost like a spirit animal Like the black dogs um that we talked about you know that were The reports of the the black dogs or the grim um In in the UK You know, it's a it's a spectral it's a spectral dog right What we know that wolves once inhabited that region right so Could this there at once again? Could this be a lingering small population of a wolf That we don't know about or Like you're saying could this be a spectral dog the Maybe physical incarnation of an ancient spirit That everybody who live there has seen and dealt with yeah, and that's why the stories get passed on Is it's it's something that anybody who lives there or stays there for any amount of time Will encounter this spirit of the smoke wolf Yeah, or at least if they don't see it they hear it um And I've never I've never seen um a solid black wolf Um, I mean I I'm not saying they don't exist. I've just I've just never seen one um From what uh from what I understand they're Quite rare um Yeah, so that yeah they they do exist, but they they are extraordinarily rare Um, so a large black solid black wolf um You know, even if even if it was a regular size wolf, but seen out in the woods, you know 100 150 years ago Might not realize hey, we don't see other black wolves. What is the deal with this one You know, why is he here he must be evil um There there's you know, it's a one-off. So you're like This is this is so out of the norm. It's gonna lead to stories, you know, there's a there's a black wolf up in these heels Um, then it becomes you know, there's a spectral black wolf and now it's a smoke wolf and interesting thing about the smoke wolf legend As they said the only thing that will deter a smoke wolf is the sound of rattling chains You know if I heard rattling chains in the woods at night it deterred me too. Yeah But I was thinking about the the sound you said If you don't see it you hear it. Mm-hmm. So think about the animals that we know live there There's not anything I know of That would make a sound That you would mistake or a wolf other Than a wolf right so either we have wolves coming back And they don't know about it or we have a spectral wolf yeah And it's not just described as a howl but a howl and and a scream um You know, so that would that even if you were used to hearing wolves how As the screaming aspect of it would make it different So you would kind of recognize hey, there's something else. This isn't just a wolf I was next one is is really really kind of cool. This is called the Ravenmacher Uh, and this is according to Cherokee legend as Adam said, you know, the Cherokee was um What was the most common tribe in southern Appalachia And that's where this legend comes from but the Ravenmacher is a shape-shifting bigfoot type creature It stands about seven feet tall with black fur and solid white eyes Now some people consider this to be a type of bigfoot Um, and it's believed to inhabit southwest Virginia And it's able to shift into any animal and can also take on the appearance of an old man Or woman Now in its human form the Ravenmacher can lure among unsuspecting can lurk among unsuspecting people and eat their hearts From their chest without ever leaving a mark Hmm now that that does That does really sound like other Native American legends that we have heard describing You know a different Entity um, it it has touches of skin walker to it Um that the whole the whole shape shifting and the and the ability to appear human Um That that's another you if you can if you're the shape shifting creature and you can appear human It allows you to get much closer to humans than you would normally be able to be So You know if if that is this uh That is this creatures uh mo It's it's gonna want to get as close as it can if it if it's in goal is to eat your heart Um But you know really cool and and what was even what was even more neat about the Ravenmacher is I have not heard this name before Right and it is much Native American folklore and and legends that we have looked into I have not come across The Ravenmacher So that's it and that one was a new one on But since we're talking about the Ravenmacher. Let's talk about let's talk about Bigfoot um Bigfoot Legends uh Within the Appalachian region are Off the charts. Okay. Oh, yeah. It's it's the perfect area um You know heavily wooded mountainous, you know Difficult terrain to you know to traverse um And and the legends of quote wild men in the woods Date all the way back to ancient times you know including um The indigenous cultures in Europe have legends of of Like say quote wild men that live out in the woods or in the mountains um The a logging company employee named Jerry crew Discovered an extra large set of footprints in six rivers national forest and the rumors quickly spread And that's where the name bigfoot began to To become used routinely You know because hey This thing's got big feet man. Look at it. What wonder what it is. It's a big foot You know that jackass is like Why what what you call this thing with big feet. Let's call it big foot Right and it's stuck Ha, ha, ha, could have been anything Ha, ha, ha, ha, could have been clad, you know, but It's dead. No, it's big foot that you know how to get creative um But prior to the 20th century Uh, everybody referred to Bigfoot as like Sasquatch or Yeti um And in this is the Appalachia has the You know has the uh, the claim to fame of You know carry it on the big foot name But uh the indigenous tribes in Appalachia also had their own Sasquatch legends Outside of the Ravenmocker um And that when the European settlers moved in that's where they began to hear the legends um Of Of Wildman or or these large um bipedal Primates, you know that lived in the woods in the mountains and so The Europeans took those legends and of course they just added to them Um, but thousands of Bigfoot sightings have been reported um All over the US But there are a there are large concentrations in Appalachia including um The sightings reported in in the north Georgia mountains So um You can you can go to the the Bigfoot festival in Mary and North Carolina Which is the these festivals to celebrate Uh, these different creatures that That is an Appalachian thing. I'm telling you. Oh, yeah I mean They they have got festivals for all the monsters. Let me tell you uh Like the moth man the moth man is another one Uh won't get into too much detail about the moth man But I think mostly if you're listening to this show, you've at least heard About the the moth man of point pleasant west Virginia And again right smacked out in Appalachia Um, and of course he's got his own statue and and his own festival. It's that's it's a it's a big deal the moth man festival is Oh, yeah But it again, it's right there in Appalachia and that's a more modern legend Um, but it does come out of this out of this area Now it's well, let's stay on this theme um of Unique animals or or cryptids or however you want to put it Uh, the wampus cat You know Adam knows the wampus cat Uh, also known as the Cherokee death cat which that's a much cooler name um, right It's wampus is weird Well, I I'll touch on this in a minute. I the the wampus that I've got some history with that that name. All right But the wampus cat is a large cat similar to a mountain lion or a cougar. It has tan yellow fur But it has six legs and large yellow eyes So that that don't make it stand out. Sure, but the legends the legend says that a Cherokee woman was cursed by tribal elders for witnessing a sacred prehunt ceremony She hid under the pelt of a large cat and got turned into Basically a half woman half beast But this is this is a pretty famous Appalachian myth Now this woman was forever left to wander alone through the mountains and the wampus cat acts out in anger It being cut off from her former life She's known for standing on her hind legs and using her supernatural powers to drive her victims to insanity Now despite this being a story about Cherokee people the wampus cat folktale did not originate with the Cherokee people Instead the name came from the goldsboro news argus newspaper in North Carolina So the wampus cat or talking about the name I had a game When I was a kid I had a computer game I This I'm showing my age and Adam won't even remember that these existed um The first actual Computer that I ever owned was made by Texas instruments and it was essentially a keyboard With a cartridge slot That connected to a television Okay, not a computer monitor It didn't it didn't really have it didn't have a hard drive hard drive this drive any of that stuff It was essentially a keyboard and a processor And you could buy Uh cartridge games For the Texas instruments home computer and one of the games I had was called hunt the wampus Oh It wasn't really a cat and it was more of a Turned-by-turn Text-based game with some very minor graphics, but when I saw a wampus cat I thought Hunt the wampus I had that game and it may have been inspired by this tail of The wampus cat Yep, so the the name came from the in 1964. There was a hairy ape man. It sounds more like Bigfoot Was reported to be roaming around us 70 and the newspaper named this creature the wampus cat and the name stuck But the name likely derived from the word cat a wampus Which is a there's a mountain folklore saying that describes the boogie man Or Something that has gone very badly and if you'd hung out with me for any period of time You'll hear me say Catty wampus oh, yeah, you know when something is not right. It is my family said that before Your car is pretty catty wampus man. Yeah And strange way strange ways brewing Which has locations in Richmond and Fredericksburg, Virginia Bruce a beer named after the wampus cat the wampus cat triple IPA Hmm and and even further the name was also used for a mythical creature in JK Rowling's Pottermore story The history of magic in North America Hmm. Yeah pretty cool I would try that wampus cat triple IPA if it was not an IPA. I hate I know They're not my favorite either. I hate a real hoppy taste Yeah, I don't I don't want to chew a hops Yeah If I wanted to do that I'd go to the plant and start chewing. Yeah, I know all you people out there you're going Oh, man, you know, I'll give you a great IPA that you'll love Yeah, don't ask me. I've already I've already been down that road. I ain't gonna happen. Yeah, I don't like it It's not my it's not my cup of tea. I'm not into the the the IPA You know micro brews from Jack and Billy boys Brewing I don't care I'm not gonna drink an IPA. Sorry Yeah Didn't happen Yeah, I don't or a logger. I'm great with one of those. Yeah Now Let's let's move over to Ohio now In a small section of the Appalachian Appalachian Mountains In Ohio Is lake hope state park Now this is a park that is not just beautiful. It's historical um But it comes with an old ghost story Now in the park Are the remnants of a massive furnace Built to process the iron ore that was found in the area Now in order to maximize productivity The furnace was left on at night And was tended to by watchman to make sure that nothing happened To anything or to any one that was near it But as the story goes somehow one of the watchman was killed right there at the furnace Now whether he slipped and he fell into the furnace Or something startled him and he fell off the platform or some even say he was struck by lightning Um, we don't really know But all the stories share the same detail And that's that the ghost of the watchman returns on dark stormy nights To continue looking after the lake hope furnace So I mean that's a that is a that's a fantastic regional story associated with You know a historical Uh, piece of equipment, you know, that's still there today. I've seen pictures of the lake hope for furnace before Um, I think we've I don't know that we've mentioned it specifically But we've mentioned something similar that it's also in Ohio um You know, but but really cool and and I and a cool story to go along with it You know that that's a great time to go out and say hey, let's go look at the lake hope furnace Oh as we're out here. Let me tell you this story, you know, yeah, um, yeah, it's always the good one about uh You know, I don't know dark and stormy night, you know, I heard a knock at the door and then the radio said the killer was You know kind of similar yeah Um This one I can't remember if if you've talked about this before Adam. I know I have But these are the moon eyed people Oh, yeah, yeah, I'd seem to if if we haven't talked about it on the show Adam and I have have Had a conversation where this came up before I know um But this is uh, this has an Appalachian folktale aspect and a Cherokee legend That goes along with the moon eyed people let me tell you why um These were supposedly a group of pale scanned humanoids That were named the moon eyed people um And they were thought to be hiding somewhere in the Appalachian range They're usually associated with the small town of Murphy, North Carolina the moon eyed people are short Stout white scanned with bearded faces and large blue eyes Their eyes were supposedly so sensitive to the Sun that they were Nocturnal Which is how they got the name the moon eyed Legend legend says that the local Native American tribes waited for the full moon To drive the moon eyed people from their underground caves The bright light made them weak forcing them to flee into other parts of Appalachia for good But unlike other Appalachian monsters the moon eyed people were considered to be a distinctly separate race of people Rather than supernatural beings So it You know It seems kind of obvious, but the moon eyed people were most likely Other European settlers But what makes the legend so shocking is that it dates dates back hundreds of years before Christopher Columbus Discovered America quote discovered America so um It it doesn't make sense that there would be An entire settlement of Europeans in North America At the time that these these legends go back to I mean you you would immediately think okay the Cherokee legend is describing a blue eyed white people Um that had it settled in this area The only thing I can think of is there are a lot of legends of Vikings discovering North America. Yeah, so if this If this isn't a supernatural Thing It they could be Just describing the Vikings however The Vikings were known to You know pillage and plunder Right and I don't know that a light would scare them off Yeah, so a much more aggressive um Especially the ones that were The explorers You know the Viking sport they were the warriors, you know, they were they were seeking out new land. They were not you know Peace loving You know, but you know if somebody was trying to drive them out of an area they would have fought back Exactly And it's the only reason I don't think it could be Vikings But I I could see the legend may be starting if the Vikings had made it here and encountered the Native Americans And I I may be wrong, but aren't aren't Vikings generally considered to be tall taller, I mean you know Scandinavian They are people are typically taller. So it it It doesn't fit, but there's really not We don't have another explanation of why there would be white settlers in that area at the time So you know the question comes up are the moon-eyed people just another scary story from You know Appalachia, you know or are they actual European settlers who didn't get their credit for coming here You know just set out you know and said we're going that way Yeah, but you can find exhibits on the moon-eyed people at the Cherokee County Historical Museum in Murphy There is a three-foot tall sculpture of two conjoined figures thought to represent moon-eyed people Which was found in the early 1840s Now Fort Mountain a Georgia State Park near Elijah Georgia Contains the ruins of an 850 850 foot long stone wall That was said to have been constructed by the moon-eyed people Hmm. Yeah, so I mean This is this is this is a really a really cool one because um It has all the Aspects of a of a good legend of some you know peculiar people that used to inhabit the mountains But there's a lot of evidence that Maybe they were they were actual just real people that looked different Than the natives that lived there Right, I mean, you know, I don't know You would think if they were if they were so nocturnal That that that almost sounds as like like Jewish Um, you know, they would you know, yeah a lot of their practices and involved Um, you know being at night and you know studying the moon and I don't know it's it's it's it's it's peculiar that to say the least Yeah, but when looking at that we have to We have to take two things into account, I think one is that we just discussed it in our Giants episode the Native American The bunch of different Groups of Native Americans described giant people And we have found evidence of there being Larger than average people for the time in North America So if they're describing moon-eyed people I would say there's quite possibly we could find evidence of a race of people Similar to that that they're describing that lived here at one point in time and maybe died off maybe and A race of early hominids or something that continued to live on until At some point before European settlers came over here, but We also need to if you look at the sculptures That are the sculpture that said to be the moon-eyed people. Mm-hmm. What does it look like? It looks like grace Mm-hmm Yeah, it sure does So I'm not saying I'm gonna pull the geosuclose thing. I'm not saying it's aliens, but You know What if We got some of our belief of the way grays look from This group of peoples That were described as the moon-eyed people yeah And it's funny go go look at this photo Um Because you've seen this sculpture. You just don't realize that's what it is. Mm-hmm You know if you Especially if you're into the the whole ancient ancient aliens type thing um that You know the idea that Ancient civilizations had assistance in what they what they learned and how they knew Uh, you know movement of the stars and other celestial bodies You know You'll see these images that they're like doesn't this look like an alien being does that This look like what you hear described is is an alien And this picture will show up So you just didn't realize what you were looking at but this is actually considered to be a sculpture of the moon-eyed people But if you look at other representations of moon-eyed people They do look kind of animalistic now is it because they were nocturnal and whatever Or is it because that was a true Species of hominid But we're looking at Australopithecus Because Australopithecus was a smaller Humanoid That we know lived. I mean, I've got a replica skull Australopithecus skull And we know they lived we found it Mm-hmm. So what if This was a species similar to Australopithecus That lived alongside the Native Americans And they just became legend because they died out Or they interbred or whatever. Yeah, man. It's fascinating Now this next one is a true Appalachian mountain mystery and Adam and I have talked about it before The brown mountain lights Oh, yeah, and locals and tourists alike have this Have reported these orb-like Lights and blue white orange and red Hovering about 15 feet off the ground in the brown mountain area in their Morgan to Morgan to North Carolina Now the legend behind it tells of a brutal battle between Cherokee and to call but Katalba warriors on brown mountain Which left many dead on the battlefield in the evenings Katalba women went searching for their sons husbands brothers and fathers using torch lights to guide them Many claim that the lights seen today are the spirits of the Katalba women still searching for their loved ones The first recorded sighting of the brown mountain lights happened in 1771 When German engineer John William Gerard Debraum wrote about seeing the lights in his journal But his written account stated that he saw the lights at a consistent time every night leading many people to believe who is actually seeing train lights in the distance and If you want to know more about the brown mountain lights um Go and check out Our episode 42 Where we discuss the brown mountain lights in more detail You had to look that up. You didn't remember. No, you're right. I looked it up So oh, yeah, we're more I couldn't I couldn't give you that episode number of something we did two months ago. We're almost 200 past that We're like a hundred and a long time ago But we did talk about it and we did talk about it in detail um But There was a there's a lot of uh Theories there's a lot of theories that say it's it's reflected light. It's headlights. It's something else Um, but when you really get into the eyewitness accounts are like yeah, this isn't headlights Yeah, that's not headlights um But the um the other recorded accounts of the brown mountain lights have happened all throughout the 20th century Especially as the Linville area gained access to electricity um But while reported sightings of the of the lights are known for their inconsistency the lights are typically seen at night and especially after a rainfall um So if you if you want to visit and and have a chance to see the brown mountain lights for yourself The brown mountain overlook wise men's view overlook and lost cove cliffs overlook are the most popular places to see them They're all located off north carolina 105 south or north carolina 181 their ash flan boon And and they have they have really even if you don't see the lights these are These are really great scenic views anytime of day um, but But if you want to if you want to get a shot at seeing the light you go at night So Now that I like I said I couldn't I couldn't include all of them. I tried to get a variety We've had we've had cryptids. We've had you know spectral animals. We've had haunted uh haunted historical equipment Uh, we got bigfoot But I kind of thought I would save the best for last and I think a lot of people forget That this is still an Appalachian legend and I think because it is so close to me and as I said I'm right on the edge of what's considered Appalachia It's the bellwitch Yeah, and probably One of one of the most famous legends uh, I wouldn't say yeah from Appalachia and and You know what you said we We don't want to dig in too deep here um But the the story of the bellwitch began in Robertson County, Tennessee in a town called Adams Which is about About an hour hour ten minute drive from me from where I live I've been to Adams many times. I used to work up that way Um, it it has a different feel. I mean it just does I used to work with a lady that was a descendant of of Of the bellwitch herself Oh, yeah, um At least who who they who they attribute it being yeah um, but the legend centers around the bell family um The bellwitch who's thought to be a woman named Kate bats Uh, was supposedly supposedly cheated in a land purchased by John Bell who is the patriarch of the bell family The hauntings began sometime between 1817 and 1821 when the bellwitch would show up disguised as an animal Such as a dog or a bird She would often focus on John's daughter Betsy Bell Pulling the sheets off her bed or even physically harming her with kicks punches and scratches John Bell grew so concerned by these violent escalations that he shared his story with a family friend named James Johnston Now after Johnson experienced the spirit first hand word quickly began to spread and the Appalachian ghost story Eventually became famous enough to reach general Andrew Jackson And according to the legend Jackson and his party set up their tents outside of the bell home One man claiming he had knowledge of how to deal with witches boasted that silver bullets were what was keeping the witch at bay Okay, to punish him The wits the witch set her sights on the man giving him a beating that had Jackson's men begging to leave Oh wow now after John Bell's mysterious death in 1820 the bellwitch continued to haunt his family She even forced Betsy to break off her engagement with Joshua Gardner before eventually disappearing for good Now some stories claim that she promised to return to haunt John Bell's direct descendants in 1935 But there are no reports From Nashville physician dr. Charles Bailey Bell who would have been the direct descendant Well dr. Charles Bailey Bell. Please reach Grave Garden Tales podcast. Yeah, I think I have experience anything if dr. Bell's still around. He's really old Okay, so family have dr. Charles Bailey Bell. Please reach out to But I'm telling you and and growing up around here um, you know the stories of the bell I mean we had we had We talked about the bellwitch in school I remember in elementary school discussing this, you know, you'd hear these stories on and on and on There's multiple books um About the bellwitch and they go into detail of the story and if you've never really sat down in red um the history of the bellwitch of Adams Tennessee Take the time to do so it is it is just it's enthralling it will pull you in And it will really make you question What this doesn't this does not sound like a hoax which you know the bell family was accused of that many times um, you know, this sounded like Some somebody if it was Katie bats or someone else um someone had knowledge of The black arts and was able to To do this much harm to this one family And if you want to hear a podcast about it Our good buddy scotten forest over to astonishing legends did a multi-part series years ago Yeah on the bellwitch and it was awesome So if you want to hear a long form discussion about it go check them out astonishing legends if you haven't listened to them already But Adam, I think this this is the perfect leading To our follow-up show that will be over on patreon where we're going to discuss the ghost stories Uh from Appalachia Um tonight we decided we were going to focus on the legends, but there are so many ghost stories and and they come from things like this the bellwitch um other uh Other experiences that are similar um some of them are just good old-fashioned You don't go down here because This is gonna get you you know the this this person's yeah This person's ghost this evil spirit if you see a blue light in the woods don't go after it because it's uh All of those things so we're gonna be discussing those in uh in a patreon episode So only on patreon only on patreon. So if you want to get the rest of this story if you want to hear All of those ghost stories You got to tune in join patreon now is a great time to do it. You're gonna get some bonus content and of course um You know all the all the uh the new things that adam and i have in the works uh for our patreon members and We thank you guys so much for sticking with us for so long. We appreciate it It's how adam and i keep the show rolling um, so we really appreciate you go over there and take a look at that stuff um But you know, this is this is the time of the show where we ask hey what do you think um We know we we said at the beginning of the show we did not cover everything this was not um And a to z primer uh for Appalachian legends And i know that we've got listeners that know so many more that that live in that area have lived in that area their whole lives had family in that area their whole lives Um, we would love to hear your Appalachian legend legends and the best place to share those is in our Facebook group Go on Facebook. It's called the graveyard. We've got thousands of members that share stories like this all the time We love to hear them. It's a it's a safe place. No one's gonna make fun of you No one's gonna think you're a loony Everybody just wants to hear these incredibly cool stories um When you're done there you can check out our website which is graveyard podcast.com and there you can find links to purchase Graveyard tells merchandise you can even listen to the show And that is where you can sign up to become a patron and get access to all of that that great bonus content Who lowered this was this was a fun one? It's gonna it's gonna get even more fun um But until next time we'll save you a seat in the graveyard