Alright, so Matt, there was this sheep farmer and he's got this talking dog, right?
Well, yeah, one day he asked it to go get all of his sheep into the pen
So a little while later the dog comes back and he goes job's done. I got all 40 sheep accounted for
And the farmer goes 40
I don't have 40. I have 36 sheep not 40 and the dog goes I know I rounded him up
Good evening everybody and welcome to the graveyard. Thank you for joining us tonight. My name is Adam and my name's Matt. Now
We'll up a tombstone or settle into your casket and get comfortable because this is
Grave your tails
All right everybody here we are again Matt. How you doing tonight brother?
Man, I am better than I was last week. Yeah
Yeah, you were you were struggle bus in last week for sure. Oh lowered voice. Voice came back. Everything feeling good. So good
You got better. I got a toothache. So you know all good things
Going to the dentist tomorrow. So hopefully we get it fixed but whatever
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But Matt
That's all the housekeeping and stuff that I got. So why don't you tell us what are we talking about tonight, brother?
Okay, so tonight
We're gonna we're gonna cover a
A really broad topic. We're we're gonna try and narrow it down to our focus
Um, but we're gonna talk about the legends of Appalachia. Mm-hmm
And
That would be saying we're gonna, you know, like we're gonna talk about
um
How many different kinds of fish there are
Okay, okay, I mean, you know a huge broad topic, but
There are so many stories and legends that come out of Appalachia
um
That aren't just
You know the routine, you know, it's
You know the the like we talk about every every every town's got one of these haunted railroad tracks, and you know
They are haunted bridge if you if you go over it and you you you you you you you you honk your horn and
The those are all over the country, but there are
So many legends that are a part of
Appalachian history. Oh, yeah, that was one of my favorite things about living up there in Appalachia was the yeah
The just the the stories and the legends that you got from the old timers and all that yeah
Yeah, and you know these these aren't always
Just let me sit down and and you know spin a yarn about something that happened to me when I was a kid
It's more than that. Yeah, it's more than that. It is it is ingrained in the history. Oh yeah, and you know
Right here where I am I
We're right here on the edge
Of what is considered
Appalachia and it's it's a much bigger area than I think most people realize
Think so many people think about you know northern Virginia west Virginia
Um Kentucky. Yeah, Kentucky
Most of the people have those that that region in mind when they think of it
But it stretches so far and Adam's gonna get more into the into the geography of it
That you know
You're you're looking at southerners northerners
You know people that live in the mountains live yeah, I mean
It's it's it's just all over the board
And I think that's what makes these these legends
So special is you know they they come from the backgrounds of all walks of life
But that's something that everybody has in common, you know are are these are these stories so
As always to to understand where these stories come from why why they have
um
Such a unique quality we got to talk about the history of the region and and the people
And the geography and everything and then you can better understand how these stories come about so so Adam
Uh talk to us about Appalachia all right
So as we always say go check our sources down on the bottom of the show notes
This is another one of those episodes
As Matt and I were saying before the mics came on there is no way
That either of us
Could extensively cover in depth our side of the research
There's no way
So we will have the sources down the bottom of the show notes where you can find
Where we found all this information plus
If something in here intrigues you you can continue that information and find more about it than we were able to cover
Because this may be a fairly long episode anyway
But we can't do a six hour podcast, you know, we're not
Joe Rogan with his four to six hour show we can't do that
I think some art listeners just dozed off when you said that yeah probably
Six hour six hour podcast
If you're monotone voice that ain't happening
Um now
I'll talk more about this later
But the earliest European settlers to the Appalachian region
Were originally from the Highlands bordering Scotland in England with many arriving by way of Ulster Ireland
So these Scotch Irish settlers as they became known formed the core community of what is known today as the central Appalachian region
Which spans parts of Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia
But the Appalachian mountains
Are in and like Matt was saying it's extensive
They're in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Kentucky, West Virginia, Maryland, Washington, DC
Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont and Maine
I mean, that's the eastern seaboard. Yeah, basically really basically. Yeah
The whole eastern seaboard is pretty much considered
Part of the Appalachian region
Now obviously it's not all the mountains and hollers of the Appalachian mountains, but it's Appalachian basins
The Appalachian lowlands
It's stuff like that, but it's still part of the Appalachian range
now
Let's look at some of the plant and animal life
From Appalachia
So from Maine to Georgia the Appalachian mountain system was once almost totally covered with forest
Today some of the best and most extensive broadleaf deciduous forest in the world still flourish in the Appalachians and bordering areas
Notably in southern Appalachia, which is Tennessee, Georgia that kind of thing
Now to the north are the conifers so red spruce balsam fern which grow the high at the highest elevations
And distinguish the Canadian and Maine woods
And the northern hardwood sugar maple buckeye beach ash birch and red and white oak
So farther south of the hickory popular walnut sycamore and at one time the important and before they were destroyed by blight plentiful chestnuts
so
I
I honestly didn't know that that was new to me, but they
In in the
Southern part of Appalachia there were chestnut trees just plentiful chestnut trees
But then a blight came through and wiped them out
And we lost all our chestnuts so we can't roast them on an open fire now
We have to import our chestnuts to roast over an open fire, which just
imported chestnuts are just not the same
That's right
I mean we lost we lost our nuts
Yep, and now we have to import homegrown USA nuts are the best for USA people
Outside the US you might not like homegrown USA nuts, you know, that's right. That's right
but
Now all of these plus
A lot of the other 140 species of trees of Appalachia are found in the southern mountain region
Now the interdependent system of southern plant growth known as the Appalachian forest is highly complex
So it's estimated that of some 2000 species of Appalachian flora perhaps 200 are native and wholly confined
To the southern Appalachians
So ferns mosses and mushrooms of many species are also part of the complex Appalachian plant life
so
If you go into
Appalachian mountains in the southern region you're going to see stuff there
That you don't see anywhere else in the world
Yeah, which very similar to when we were talking about the
Big thicket their stuff in there that you don't see anywhere else
It always amazes me when I look into different regions the
Especially in North America because we forget
How vast and how
Unique some of these areas are we go. Okay, we're going to
We're going to North Carolina you go to the city and you stay in the city
Stay in a hotel and you come home. If you get out into the woods
You get out into the the country area of these states
there's it's still
vast
unique
area of land and
You forget that when you live in the city and only travel to the cities
So it just amazes me when you see this and that ties into
The legends if you spend your time in the cities
you may get the you know
catchy little
Things of oh, we got you know bigemic big foot lives here whatever
But you get out into the the country parts
The mountainous regions and you get some of those wild legends that are just amazing
oh, yeah, yeah
I mean, we're going to get more into them, but they
if there's just so many of them and
And they're like I said earlier. They're tied to that region
because of
How unique the forests are
um the the mountains and
I think a lot of the mystique that comes with
Not just the a mountain range
It comes from the people
That
inhabit
Those mountains right and I you know, I'm not I'm not talking about you know off the gritters or any of that stuff
the people that
Settled there
The people that made that land their own
seven eight 12th generation
living and and they nourished it and they they they treasured it
And they they made sure that it was there for generations to come
and
That is what really makes it so fascinating
When it comes to these legends and stories
Because they were they were passed down they were retold they were retold people
Went to great lengths to
To keep these stories because it was
not just a
story it was
A story associated with the history right right and and and you know that's really great
And I think that that pride and in
Those areas is what's kept these stories live for all these decades
I agree
Now one thing we need to look at to
Understand maybe some of these legends is the animals that live there currently and used to live there
So bison elk and wolves were once common to the Appalachians, but they disappeared long ago
But elk subsequently have returned to the northern part of the mountain range
Now caribou and moose are still found in the northern most corners of this region
But scattered through other areas are the black bear white-tailed deer wild boar fox raccoon beaver and numerous other small animals
All areas of Appalachia support an abundant bird life in the
Smoky mountains alone
There's 200 varieties of game birds and songbirds
And that's just the ones that they've recorded
Right
So you get into some of those areas. There's probably stuff in there that they have not recorded yet that only live in that area
So who settled there? Well, we kind of touched on that, but
The settlers culture already distinctive was enriched by the influence of the original Cherokee
As well as by the later influx of Swedish finish and German woodsman
enslaved Africans and Welsh miners
So the resulting mix fords a uniquely American culture which was fiercely independent had its own style of music, art, folklore and speech
Mm-hmm
Now the Appalachian region was birthplace to several entertainers. So Lucille Ball
Patsy Klein
Cormac McCarthy and scholars like Henry Lewis Gates Jr
And Appalachia offers a rich slice of American history because of that and just because of where it is
But as we're going to talk about it's often steeped in mythic lore and stereotyped as backward uncultured and poor
So yeah, I mean even for
You know hicks like me and you we've heard those
Yeah, though those story all the dang hillbillies
You know, which I'll
Touch on why and why they're called hillbillies if if you didn't know that but
Then he is when you talk about the mountains
Yeah, West Virginia Kentucky stuff like that people even Tennessee people like oh they're backwards
Oh, yeah, crazy, you know hillbillies up there
I mean, yeah, it's a it's a big it's a big part of of Tennessee, you know the
The idea of
You know
hillbillies and and folks that live up in the mountains being
Yeah, backward. That's a good. That's a good way to put it
Um, it's not true
Well for some people it is
As a as a as a rule yeah, it's not
General out generality is not much, but for some people it's very true
But there but there was
There was different culture that from
The outside looking in
May appear, you know backwards or odd just because it's different
Well, and um just because that happens here. I mean that happens in Tennessee, you know, oh yeah people here
Accent like mine or accent like yours and go man. They dumb
Like numb as hell
Actually, I'm your doctor to not serve so you shut up
So the various eastern woodland Indian groups live there including the pinnacle the mohiken the
Susca suscahana all
Inhabited the northern half of Appalachia for centuries before the European settlements and in the southern mountains the Cherokee were predominant
So warfare and eviction had driven most of the Indian population from the mountains by the mid 19th century
So
They well we'll talk about it
The Cherokee were one of the major indigenous tribes in the Appalachia mountains where the
European
settlers came in and and all that so
We'll look at them briefly
Um the Cherokee were hunters and gatherers forging the great smoky mountains in the lowlands of the southern
Appalaches for food while hunting fishing and trapping game
So by 2000 BC Cherokee culture had spread over hundreds of miles of mountains
Governed by their clan system and town leaders
Well, they passed on their history and religious beliefs through storytelling ceremonies and dances
Which is still how a lot of their culture has passed on I think it's
Amazing anytime I see a Native American ceremony. It's just amazing to me
It
You know that's it's the legend and the culture and the history of
the northern
Northern America
You know and it's just it's great to see it still live on but
In 1540 Spanish explorer and conquistador Hernando de Soto
Came through here looking for gold demanding food fighting and enslaving the people
So worse were the diseases that came with him lacking the immunity to combat them indigenous peoples were nearly eradicated
Victim to plague such a small smallpox measles and influenza
well the early
European settlers were primarily scotch scotch Irish Presbyterians like I mentioned they were from northern Ireland and
Palatinate Germans, so the the later
Immigrants in large numbers between 1720 and 1760 were fleeing
religious persecutions and economic hardships which that
That kind of drove that
Independent quality that I mentioned earlier, you know, they were fleeing this
persecution from their homeland so they came here and they they set up shop in a very difficult area
and laid claim to it and that's where some of that
You know that Appalachian independence. I don't need your your city ways came from
Yeah
settled first in Pennsylvania they gradually moved westward
Then along with others ventured down the greater Appalachian Valley of Virginia and North Carolina
Other early settlers moved inland from Carolina
Piedmont over the regions into Kentucky and Tennessee which became states in 1790 and 96
respectively
So they traveled by wagon and horseback following river valleys and Indian game trails
Crossing the parallel ridges where streams had cut through the mountain chains at places like
Saluda gap just south of present-day Asheville on the north
The north Carolina South Carolina line and the Cumberland gap which is the furthest west
Point of Virginia on the Kentucky Tennessee border
So most pioneers moved through the southern Appalachians to the Ohio River Valley onto Missouri, Arkansas and further westward
But a permanent population
Attracted by the mountains remained in the valleys and coves to live by hunting stock raising and farming
By 1755 the Cumberland gap area had several permanent clusters of dwellings
Whattauga became the first settlement in Tennessee in 1768
After 1810 the stream of pioneer settlers began to slow and by the 1830s in it all but stopped
The last major influx of pioneer migration to the southern Appalachians occurred after gold was discovered
near
Dallonega, Georgia in 1828 by 1830 between
6,000 and 10,000 people lived in northern Georgia, but many left when the gold rush ended
Now when the pioneers first entered the southern Appalachians they encountered the Cherokee culture like I said
Trade between the white settlers and the Native Americans developed early and was a means of mutual influence
You know pioneers learned from the Cherokee what crops to cultivate how to farm and where to wear and how to hunt
And the Native Americans received material goods
From the white settlers
So the two cultures however did not remain compatible over the course of the 18th century as settlers moved into the mountains
The Native American territory was circumscribed between 1767 and 1836
Through a series of controversial treaties between the Cherokees and the state of North Carolina
The Native Americans under severe pressure gradually relinquished all tribal lands east of the Mississippi river
Although about 2000 Cheroke uh Cherokees voluntarily immigrated to the west
Many were hunted down
Forcibly removed and marched to Oklahoma by federal troops after 1838
So many of them died on this trail, and that's what we know as the trail of tears
mm-hmm
Now there's a band of a thousand Cherokees refused to leave and instead hid in the great Smoky Mountains
So in 1878 with the aid of an attorney William H. Thomas
These quote fugitive Cherokees obtained title over 60,000 acres of land in Swain and Jackson counties
In North Carolina, which is site of the present
Kuala reservation
So the the mountains became
Basically a land of scattered self-sufficient quote island communities
That were divided by the hills and the ridges and stuff like that
so these
Communities generally consisted of like small clusters of two or three homes
Which were within easy walking distance of each other
And groups of neighbors were often kinfolk
So you live next to your grandparents and then your brother lived on the other side
uh later
Generations added to these clusters, but they they were rarely more than a dozen households together
Commercial settlements often developed at a gap at like a crossroads or at the mouth of a large hollow
But they were small usually containing only one or two stores a mill a church in a school
Larger towns were widely scattered and slow to grow
so
That that can still be seen in some areas of Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia
Where you've got people that live down in these hollars
And it was told to me when I first moved to Tennessee
That
If you're in an area you don't know
Don't drive into a holler that you don't know who is there
because
For advice for decades centuries they handled their own
Law
Mm-hmm and you might just get disappeared for stepping on someone's property
And they may not find you in Appalachia
So if you don't know who's in the holler don't go traipsing down in a holler
You know nowadays, it's probably not as bad
But you still will probably get harassed and stuff if you just start
Driving into some families holler there
but it's just it's interesting to me that
That that is not a new thing
That is something that from
The time it was settled by the pioneers that they did each family had their own little holler or plain
area and
The next family was the next holler over and
You'd have to travel a long way to get to him. You were basically isolated with you and your family there
So it was it was like your own little paradise or a lot of people
Now in 1775 Daniel Boone established a route west through the Cumberland gap in Virginia into Kentucky
So the route west led to monumental expansion the United States
And their original 13 colonies and made boon a famous folk figure in Appalachia history in the in the process
So if you live in Appalachia, you're gonna know about Daniel Boone. Yep. Oh, yeah
So the quote hillbillies of Appalachia were Scott Irish immigrants and they were referred to
By settlers as Billy boys
Due to their support of William of Orange
Hillbillies were derided as often wild
You know often reclusive mountain people with fiercely
Law with fierce loyalty to family and a rejection of authority
They're also often associated with poverty in the Appalachia mountains
So which is true, but it came from the term Billy boys
So if you want to call somebody something that they don't know what the heck you're talking about calling the Billy boy
I know I guess I've never heard that term
That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, I thought it was neat um it it's
It gives a little history of the why they were hillbillies
Yeah, you don't you hear it you've always said it you've always
Been called it, but you don't know where it comes from so and and I really honestly
Wasn't thinking that I would hear will William of Orange tonight. I just
Now it's just not
It's not a historical figure you discuss very often until doing this research. I didn't think I'd say it
So we always mention how old the Appalaches are
But how old are they actually?
So Appalachia mountains in contrast to the pointy peaks of the Rockies
They're weathered and rounded with gradual slopes low-rounded peaks and soft edges
Well in geologic terms this shows a vast difference in age between the mountains
Think about how long it takes rain wind and dirt to a road an entire mountain peak
Mm-hmm
So if you just look at the yeah the Appalachians are lower
Then the Rockies are that doesn't mean they're younger
That means they're older yeah
Um
They're mountains growing reverse
Basically, I mean they start out big and then they gradually get smaller as they get older
At their tallest point the Appalachians were likely as tall as the modern-day Rocky Mountains or the Alps
So when they finished growing they were Rocky Mountain Alps size
Um, we don't know for sure because the age of them we hadn't been keeping records of them for long enough to
Yeah, no for sure
but
The Appalachian Mountains are the shortest of the three U.S. mountain ranges with an average
elevation of
Less than half of the other two ranges so the the Rockies and the Sierra Nevada's
So Appalachians on the east Rockies in the middle Sierra Nevada on the west
Kind of think of it that way
So the highest peak of the Appalachian Mountains is Mount Mitchell in North Carolina
It reaches 6,684 feet above sea level in the Rockies Mount Elbert stands 14,440 feet above sea level
Yeah, quite a difference
Now the Appalachian Mountains were formed during the Ortevisian period roughly 480 million years ago
But it's not the whole story
Although the modern Appalachians were formed almost half a billion years ago
The process has been like
likely
Going around a lot longer than that
In fact the region where the current mountain sit has been through a few cycles of mountain building
each lasting between 305 million years
So the initial growth of the mountain range so the first cycle where they were formed
likely began over one billion years ago when North and South America fused together for the first time
Additionally the rocks that make up the mountains formed around 1.2 billion years ago
So asking quote how old are the Appalachians is kind of a tough question to answer
Well this next bit is a snippet from Steve Kite who's a geology professor at West Virginia University
And he talks about the cycles of growth and erosion in regards to the Appalachian through time
He says quote there were a couple mountain building episodes
And those mountains formed and then were wore down
Things were kind of quiet
Then those mountains formed even later about 450 million years ago
And those wore down and things were kind of quiet
And then about 360 million years ago another mountain building episode and then the big
Alleghenian mountain building episode
In quote so
The Appalachia area has gone through several cycles of growth and erosion
Well scientists are a bit confused as to how the modern Appalachia so the most recent building period even began
Some even think it's the result of the geologic activity on the west coast near the Rockies
So if there is a ton of activity deep under the earth on one side of the country
It could easily affect the other regardless the current period of the Appalachians likely began around 20 million years ago when the current topography we see began to settle
The initial mountains were clearly
Clearly formed when the North American plate began to press up against the African plate
So if you look at a map
The topography map
We have the Appalachians on the east coast of the United States
Then if you look on the west coast of Africa
There is a mountain range
those at one point
were connected when
When Pangaea
Was a thing and then they ripped apart and started wearing down
So
Real interesting how old Appalachia is but
uh
Like I said the most recent growth is the the most puzzling part to them because
The the mountains were worn down to a flat plain region and were brought back during the Cinezoic era
But they they don't know how for sure
What we see the Appalachians
Were raised back up
So
This makes me think and and and I've told you this before Matt
I don't remember if I've said it on an episode before or not
But if we look at the age of the Appalachians
We look at how long they've been around
You know, let's let's take out the
building and and
Wearing down thought let's just think about that area
how long it's been
Mountains because even after it wears down
There's caves
There's stuff that's still going to be there from the the mountain
What could the Appalachians hold
You know, I I'm a firm believer that there are
Spirits entities whatever that have been here since the dawn of time
what a lot of
Old horror writers would call the ancient ones
You know, I think there there are things on our planet like that
That have been here from maybe before the dawn of humanity
So
If that's the case
In North America one of the few places that I think they could hide and stay hidden
Would be the Appalachian mountain range
You know and and if you think about that
Then that
Kind of helps you understand some of the legends
That that Matt's going to get into some of the
The stories that are told maybe some of the creep factor
Because there are some
Spooky-ass places in the Appalachian mountain range
Yes, there's a lot of beautiful beautiful places
But there's some places you go
That as soon as you go down in this holler and it's not because of the Billy boys that live there
You get this creepy feeling you feel like you're being watched
Yeah, feel like your skin's crawling something's walking up on you
Why is that well it could be due to the age of the area
There is something ancient that lives within the Appalachian mountain range
Yeah, and I I agree a hundred percent
And especially with the idea that if
If there's something like that in North America that is where it's going to be yep
So considering all that
We can we can look into some of the stories and legends that are associated
With Appalachian
And I've kind of I've kind of reorganized this several times but
This is this is how we're going to because we like I said at the beginning we've got a lot of different things there's there's
I tried to get as much variety into this as I could
um
But but Adam was talking about the the wildlife that live there
Um the wildlife that currently lives there
But when we're talking about how old
The the mountains are how old the region is
There's bound to be some other things that
That we're there at one point that aren't there anymore, but there may be something
Lingerying on yep such as the silver giant
Things we don't know about that we have a cataloged
Yeah, and yeah, it could be something legit yeah, so the silver giant is is similar to a bear
Um
Except it can run
According to legend as easily on two legs as it can on four
Now when standing upright
The silver giant is between nine and eleven feet tall. So this this thing is really really large
Um
The fur is generally dark, but it has a silver streak of hair running down its back
So the the silver giant is a is a legendary animal from from this region
um
With
numerous
sightings of
What would easily be mistaken as a bear but
It's a really really big bear and
Black black bears don't get to be just they certainly don't get between nine and eleven feet tall no no
That's grisly
Uh
grisly size or polar bearer size
Yeah, or so to have something that big living in the Appalachian range
Is not something categorized by scientists
But could it be an ancient species still lingering on
Could it be like a hybrid you know something that
You know as has got is is bear, but you know, it's um
It's a genetic mutation or it's uh
You know i
A conglomeration of of grisly and black bear brown bear those kind of things who knows um
But it is often it it is often talked about
uh
You know by
You know people in the in the mountainous region
um
As if
You know there's
There's still some out there
You know they you know it's it's been spotted and the and that that unique silver streak that goes down its back
You know now it now being his thing maybe it's part bear part gorilla
Yeah, I was gonna say it
Park silverback
Yes, the silverback the North American silverback gorilla. Yeah actually that that was that was my uncle, but
Ha
And in the same vein this I dig this one just because the name is so cool the smoke wolf
um
The solid black smoke wolf is a massive canine
That said to have eyes is red as the sun
Now one witness who claims to have heard the smoke wolves howl and scream at night
Uh out on his property says these things are pure evil
Saying that these wolves
They kill for fun for sport, you know not for hunting
um
And and it's just really uh, I mean it's it sounds to me like um
Like a almost like a spirit animal
Like the black dogs um that we talked about you know that were
The reports of the the black dogs or the grim um
In in the UK
You know, it's a it's a spectral it's a spectral dog right
What we know that wolves once inhabited that region right so
Could this there at once again?
Could this be a lingering small population of a wolf
That we don't know about or
Like you're saying could this be a spectral dog the
Maybe physical incarnation of an ancient
spirit
That everybody who live there has seen and dealt with yeah, and that's why the stories get
passed on
Is it's it's something that anybody who lives there or stays there for any amount of time
Will encounter this spirit of the smoke wolf
Yeah, or at least if they don't see it they hear it
um
And I've never I've never seen um a solid black wolf
Um, I mean I I'm not saying they don't exist. I've just I've just never seen one
um
From what uh from what I understand they're
Quite rare
um
Yeah, so that yeah they they do exist, but they they are extraordinarily rare
Um, so a large black solid black wolf um
You know, even if even if it was a regular size wolf, but seen out in the woods, you know
100
150 years ago
Might not realize hey, we don't see other black wolves. What is the deal with this one
You know, why is he here he must be evil um
There there's you know, it's a one-off. So you're like
This is this is so out of the norm. It's gonna lead to stories, you know, there's a there's a black wolf up in these heels
Um, then it becomes you know, there's a spectral black wolf and now it's a smoke wolf and interesting thing about the smoke wolf legend
As they said the only thing that will deter a smoke wolf is the sound of rattling chains
You know if I heard rattling chains in the woods at night it deterred me too. Yeah
But I was thinking about the the sound you said
If you don't see it you hear it. Mm-hmm. So think about the animals that we know
live there
There's not anything I know of
That would make a sound
That you would mistake or a wolf
other
Than a wolf right
so either we have wolves coming back
And they don't know about it or we have a spectral wolf yeah
And it's not just described as a howl but a howl and and a scream um
You know, so that would that even if you were used to hearing wolves how
As the screaming aspect of it would make it different
So you would kind of recognize hey, there's something else. This isn't just a wolf
I was next one is is really really kind of cool. This is called the Ravenmacher
Uh, and this is according to Cherokee legend as Adam said, you know, the Cherokee was um
What was the most common tribe in southern Appalachia
And that's where this legend comes from but the Ravenmacher is a shape-shifting bigfoot type creature
It stands about seven feet tall with black fur and solid white eyes
Now some people consider this to be a type of bigfoot
Um, and it's believed to inhabit southwest Virginia
And it's able to shift into any animal and can also take on the appearance of an old man
Or woman
Now in its human form the Ravenmacher can lure among unsuspecting can lurk among unsuspecting people and eat their hearts
From their chest without ever leaving a mark
Hmm now that that does
That does really sound like other Native American legends that we have heard describing
You know a different
Entity um, it it has touches of skin walker to it
Um that the whole the whole shape shifting and the and the ability to appear human
Um
That that's another you if you can if you're the shape shifting creature and you can appear human
It allows you to get much closer to humans than you would normally be able to be
So
You know if if that is this uh
That is this creatures uh mo
It's it's gonna want to get as close as it can if it if it's in goal is to eat your heart
Um
But you know really cool and and what was even what was even more neat about the Ravenmacher is I have not heard this name before
Right and it is much Native American folklore and and legends that we have looked into I have not come across
The Ravenmacher
So that's it and that one was a new one on
But since we're talking about the Ravenmacher. Let's talk about let's talk about Bigfoot um
Bigfoot
Legends uh
Within the Appalachian region are
Off the charts. Okay. Oh, yeah. It's it's the perfect area um
You know heavily wooded
mountainous, you know
Difficult terrain to you know to traverse um
And and the legends of quote wild men in the woods
Date all the way back to ancient times you know including um
The indigenous cultures in Europe have legends of of
Like say quote wild men that live out in the woods or in the mountains um
The a logging company employee named Jerry crew
Discovered an extra large set of footprints in six rivers national forest and the rumors
quickly spread
And that's where the name bigfoot began to
To become used routinely
You know because hey
This thing's got big feet man. Look at it. What wonder what it is. It's a big foot
You know that jackass is like
Why what what you call this thing with big feet. Let's call it big foot
Right and it's stuck
Ha, ha, ha, could have been anything
Ha, ha, ha, ha, could have been clad, you know, but
It's dead. No, it's big foot that you know how to get creative um
But prior to the 20th century
Uh, everybody referred to Bigfoot as like Sasquatch or Yeti um
And in this is the Appalachia has the
You know has the uh, the claim to fame of
You know carry it on the big foot name
But uh the indigenous tribes in Appalachia also had their own Sasquatch legends
Outside of the Ravenmocker um
And that when the European settlers moved in that's where they began to hear the legends um
Of
Of Wildman or or these large
um
bipedal
Primates, you know that lived in the woods in the mountains and so
The Europeans took those legends and of course they just added to them
Um, but thousands of Bigfoot sightings have been reported
um
All over the US
But there are a there are large concentrations in Appalachia including um
The sightings reported in in the north Georgia mountains
So um
You can you can go to the the
Bigfoot festival in Mary and North Carolina
Which is the these festivals to celebrate
Uh, these different creatures that
That is an Appalachian thing. I'm telling you. Oh, yeah
I mean
They they have got festivals for all the monsters. Let me tell you
uh
Like the moth man the moth man is another one
Uh won't get into too much detail about the moth man
But I think mostly if you're listening to this show, you've at least heard
About the the moth man of point pleasant west Virginia
And again right smacked out in Appalachia
Um, and of course he's got his own statue and and his own festival. It's that's it's a it's a big deal the moth man festival is
Oh, yeah
But it again, it's right there in Appalachia and that's a more modern legend
Um, but it does come out of this out of this area
Now it's well, let's stay on this theme um
of
Unique animals or or cryptids or however you want to put it
Uh, the wampus cat
You know Adam knows the wampus cat
Uh, also known as the Cherokee death cat which that's a much cooler name um, right
It's wampus is weird
Well, I
I'll touch on this in a minute. I the the wampus that I've got some history with that that name. All right
But the wampus cat is a large cat similar to a mountain lion or a cougar. It has tan yellow fur
But it has six legs and large yellow eyes
So that that don't make it stand out. Sure, but the legends the legend says that a Cherokee woman was cursed by tribal elders for witnessing a sacred prehunt ceremony
She hid under the pelt of a large cat and got turned into
Basically a half woman half beast
But this is this is a pretty famous Appalachian myth
Now this woman was forever left to wander alone through the mountains and the wampus cat acts out in anger
It being cut off from her former life
She's known for standing on her hind legs and using her supernatural powers to drive her victims to insanity
Now despite this being a story about Cherokee people the wampus cat folktale did not originate with the Cherokee people
Instead the name came from the goldsboro news argus newspaper in North Carolina
So the wampus cat or talking about the name
I had a game
When I was a kid I had a computer game
I
This I'm showing my age and Adam won't even remember that these existed
um
The first actual
Computer that I ever owned was made by Texas instruments and it was essentially a keyboard
With a cartridge slot
That connected to a television
Okay, not a computer monitor
It didn't it didn't really have it didn't have a hard drive hard drive this drive any of that stuff
It was essentially a keyboard and a processor
And you could buy
Uh cartridge games
For the Texas instruments home computer and one of the games I had was called hunt the wampus
Oh
It wasn't really a cat and it was more of a
Turned-by-turn
Text-based game with some very minor graphics, but when I saw a wampus cat I thought
Hunt the wampus I had that game and it may have been inspired by this tail of
The wampus cat
Yep, so the the name came from the in 1964. There was a hairy ape man. It sounds more like Bigfoot
Was reported to be roaming around us 70 and the newspaper named this creature the wampus cat and the name stuck
But the name likely derived from the word cat a wampus
Which is a there's a mountain folklore saying that describes the boogie man
Or
Something that has gone very badly and if you'd hung out with me for any period of time
You'll hear me say
Catty wampus oh, yeah, you know when something is not right. It is my family said that before
Your car is pretty catty wampus man. Yeah
And strange way strange ways brewing
Which has locations in Richmond and Fredericksburg, Virginia
Bruce a beer named after the wampus cat the wampus cat triple IPA
Hmm and and even further the name was also used for a mythical creature in JK Rowling's Pottermore story
The history of magic in North America
Hmm. Yeah pretty cool
I would try that wampus cat triple IPA if it was not an IPA. I hate I know
They're not my favorite either. I hate a real hoppy taste
Yeah, I don't I don't want to chew a hops
Yeah
If I wanted to do that I'd go to the plant and start chewing. Yeah, I know all you people out there you're going
Oh, man, you know, I'll give you a great IPA that you'll love
Yeah, don't ask me. I've already I've already been down that road. I ain't gonna happen. Yeah, I don't like it
It's not my it's not my cup of tea. I'm not into the the the IPA
You know micro brews from
Jack and
Billy boys
Brewing I don't care
I'm not gonna drink an IPA. Sorry
Yeah
Didn't happen
Yeah, I don't or a logger. I'm great with one of those. Yeah
Now
Let's let's move over to
Ohio now
In a small section of the Appalachian Appalachian Mountains
In Ohio
Is lake hope state park
Now this is a park that is not just beautiful. It's historical
um
But it comes with an old ghost story
Now in the park
Are the remnants of a massive furnace
Built to process the iron ore that was found in the area
Now in order to maximize productivity
The furnace was left on at night
And was tended to by watchman to make sure that nothing happened
To anything or to any one that was near it
But as the story goes somehow one of the watchman was killed right there at the furnace
Now whether he slipped and he fell into the furnace
Or something startled him and he fell off the platform or some even say he was struck by lightning
Um, we don't really know
But all the stories share the same detail
And that's that the ghost of the watchman returns on dark stormy nights
To continue looking after the lake hope furnace
So I mean that's a that is a that's a fantastic regional story associated with
You know a historical
Uh, piece of equipment, you know, that's still there today. I've seen pictures of the lake hope for furnace before
Um, I think we've I don't know that we've mentioned it specifically
But we've mentioned something similar that it's also in Ohio
um
You know, but but really cool and and I and a cool story to go along with it
You know that that's a great time to go out and say hey, let's go look at the lake hope furnace
Oh as we're out here. Let me tell you this story, you know, yeah, um, yeah, it's always the good one about uh
You know, I don't know dark and stormy night, you know, I heard a knock at the door and then the radio said the killer was
You know kind of similar yeah
Um
This one I can't remember if if you've talked about this before Adam. I know I have
But these are the moon eyed people
Oh, yeah, yeah, I'd seem to if if we haven't talked about it on the show Adam and I have have
Had a conversation where this came up before I know um
But this is uh, this has an Appalachian folktale aspect and a Cherokee legend
That goes along with the moon eyed people let me tell you why
um
These were supposedly a group of pale scanned humanoids
That were named the moon eyed people
um
And they were thought to be hiding somewhere in the Appalachian range
They're usually associated with the small town of Murphy, North Carolina the moon eyed people are short
Stout white scanned with bearded faces and large blue eyes
Their eyes were supposedly so sensitive to the Sun that they were
Nocturnal
Which is how they got the name the moon eyed
Legend legend says that the local Native American tribes waited for the full moon
To drive the moon eyed people from their underground caves
The bright light made them weak forcing them to flee into other parts of Appalachia for good
But unlike other Appalachian monsters the moon eyed people were considered to be a distinctly separate race of people
Rather than supernatural beings
So it
You know
It seems kind of obvious, but the moon eyed people were most likely
Other European settlers
But what makes the legend so shocking is that it dates dates back hundreds of years before Christopher Columbus
Discovered America quote discovered America
so um
It it doesn't make sense that there would be
An entire settlement of Europeans in North America
At the time that these these legends go back to
I mean you you would immediately think okay the Cherokee legend is describing a blue eyed white people
Um that had it settled in this area
The only thing I can think of is there are a lot of legends of Vikings
discovering
North America. Yeah, so if this
If this isn't a supernatural
Thing
It they could be
Just describing the Vikings however
The Vikings were known to
You know pillage and plunder
Right and I don't know that a light would scare them off
Yeah, so a much more aggressive
um
Especially the ones that were
The explorers
You know the Viking sport they were the warriors, you know, they were they were seeking out new land. They were not
you know
Peace loving
You know, but you know if somebody was trying to drive them out of an area they would have fought back
Exactly
And it's the only reason I don't think it could be Vikings
But I I could see the legend may be starting if the Vikings had made it here and encountered the Native Americans
And I
I may be wrong, but aren't aren't Vikings generally considered to be tall
taller, I mean you know Scandinavian
They are people are typically taller. So it it
It doesn't fit, but there's really not
We don't have another explanation of why there would be white settlers in that area at the time
So you know the question comes up are the moon-eyed people just another scary story from
You know Appalachia, you know or are they actual European settlers who didn't get their credit for coming here
You know just set out you know and said we're going that way
Yeah, but you can find exhibits on the moon-eyed people at the Cherokee County Historical Museum in Murphy
There is a three-foot tall sculpture of two conjoined figures thought to represent moon-eyed people
Which was found in the early 1840s
Now Fort Mountain a Georgia State Park near
Elijah Georgia
Contains the ruins of an 850
850 foot long stone wall
That was said to have been constructed by the moon-eyed people
Hmm. Yeah, so I mean
This is this is this is a really a really cool one because
um
It has all the
Aspects of a of a good legend of some you know peculiar people that used to inhabit the mountains
But there's a lot of evidence that
Maybe they were they were actual just real people that looked different
Than the natives that lived there
Right, I mean, you know, I don't know
You would think if they were if they were so nocturnal
That that that almost sounds as like like Jewish
Um, you know, they would you know, yeah a lot of their practices and involved
Um, you know being at night and you know studying the moon and I don't know it's it's it's it's it's peculiar that to say the least
Yeah, but when looking at that we have to
We have to take two things into account, I think one is that we just discussed it in our Giants episode the Native American
The bunch of different
Groups of Native Americans described giant people
And we have found evidence of there being
Larger than average people for the time in North America
So if they're describing moon-eyed people
I would say there's quite possibly we could find evidence of a race of people
Similar to that that they're describing that lived here at one point in time and maybe died off maybe and
A race of early hominids or something that
continued to live on until
At some point before
European settlers came over here, but
We also need to if you look at the sculptures
That are the sculpture that said to be the moon-eyed people. Mm-hmm. What does it look like?
It looks like grace
Mm-hmm
Yeah, it sure does
So I'm not saying I'm gonna pull the geosuclose thing. I'm not saying it's aliens, but
You know
What if
We got some of our belief of the way grays look from
This group of peoples
That were described as the moon-eyed people yeah
And it's funny go go look at this photo
Um
Because you've seen this sculpture. You just don't realize that's what it is. Mm-hmm
You know if you
Especially if you're into the the whole ancient ancient aliens type thing
um that
You know the idea that
Ancient civilizations had assistance in what they what they learned and how they knew
Uh, you know movement of the stars and other celestial bodies
You know
You'll see these images that they're like doesn't this look like an alien being does that
This look like what you hear
described is is an alien
And this picture will show up
So you just didn't realize what you were looking at but this is actually considered to be a sculpture of the moon-eyed people
But if you look at other representations of moon-eyed people
They do look kind of animalistic
now is it because they were
nocturnal
and whatever
Or is it because that was a true
Species of hominid
But we're looking at Australopithecus
Because Australopithecus was a smaller
Humanoid
That we know lived. I mean, I've got a replica skull Australopithecus skull
And we know they lived we found it
Mm-hmm. So what if
This was a species similar to Australopithecus
That lived alongside the Native Americans
And they just became legend because they died out
Or they interbred or whatever. Yeah, man. It's fascinating
Now this next one is a true Appalachian mountain mystery and Adam and I have talked about it before
The brown mountain lights
Oh, yeah, and locals and tourists alike have this
Have reported these
orb-like
Lights and blue white orange and red
Hovering about 15 feet off the ground in the brown mountain area in their Morgan to Morgan to North Carolina
Now the legend behind it tells of a brutal battle between Cherokee and to call but
Katalba warriors on brown mountain
Which left many dead on the battlefield in the evenings
Katalba women went searching for their sons husbands brothers and fathers using torch lights to guide them
Many claim that the lights seen today are the spirits of the Katalba women still searching for their loved ones
The first recorded sighting of the brown mountain lights happened in 1771
When German engineer John William Gerard Debraum wrote about seeing the lights in his journal
But his written account stated that he saw the lights at a consistent time every night
leading many people to believe who is actually seeing train lights in the distance
and
If you want to know more about the brown mountain lights
um
Go and check out
Our episode 42
Where we discuss the brown mountain lights in more detail
You had to look that up. You didn't remember. No, you're right. I looked it up
So oh, yeah, we're more
I couldn't I couldn't give you that episode number of something we did two months ago. We're almost 200 past that
We're like a hundred and a long time ago
But we did talk about it and we did talk about it in detail
um
But
There was a there's a lot of
uh
Theories there's a lot of theories that say it's it's reflected light. It's headlights. It's something else
Um, but when you really get into the eyewitness accounts are like yeah, this isn't headlights
Yeah, that's not headlights
um
But the um the other recorded accounts of the brown mountain lights have happened all throughout the 20th century
Especially as the Linville area gained access to electricity
um
But while reported sightings of the of the lights are known for their inconsistency the lights are typically seen at night and
especially after a rainfall
um
So if you if you want to visit and and have a chance to see the brown mountain lights for yourself
The brown mountain overlook wise men's view overlook and lost cove cliffs overlook are the most popular places to see them
They're all located off north carolina 105 south or north carolina 181 their ash flan boon
And and they have they have really even if you don't see the lights these are
These are really great scenic views anytime of day um, but
But if you want to if you want to get a shot at seeing the light you go at night
So
Now that I like I said I couldn't I couldn't include all of them. I tried to get a variety
We've had we've had cryptids. We've had you know spectral animals. We've had haunted uh
haunted historical equipment
Uh, we got bigfoot
But I kind of thought I would save the best for last and I think a lot of people forget
That this is still an Appalachian legend and I think because it is so close to me and as I said
I'm right on the edge of what's considered Appalachia
It's the bellwitch
Yeah, and probably
One of one of the most famous legends uh, I wouldn't say yeah from Appalachia and and
You know what you said we
We don't want to dig in too deep here um
But the the story of the bellwitch began in Robertson County, Tennessee in a town called Adams
Which is about
About an hour hour ten minute drive from me from where I live
I've been to Adams many times. I used to work up that way
Um, it it has a different feel. I mean it just does
I used to work with a lady that was a descendant of
of
Of the bellwitch herself
Oh, yeah, um
At least who who they who they attribute it being yeah um, but the legend centers around the bell family
um
The bellwitch who's thought to be a woman named Kate bats
Uh, was supposedly supposedly cheated in a land purchased by John Bell who is the patriarch of the bell family
The hauntings began sometime between 1817 and 1821 when the bellwitch would show up disguised as an animal
Such as a dog or a bird
She would often focus on John's daughter Betsy Bell
Pulling the sheets off her bed or even physically harming her with kicks punches and scratches
John Bell grew so concerned by these violent escalations that he shared his story with a family friend named James Johnston
Now after Johnson experienced the spirit first hand word quickly began to spread and the Appalachian ghost story
Eventually became famous enough to reach general Andrew Jackson
And according to the legend Jackson and his party set up their tents outside of the bell home
One man claiming he had knowledge of how to deal with witches
boasted that silver bullets were what was keeping the witch at bay
Okay, to punish him
The wits the witch set her sights on the man giving him a beating that had Jackson's men begging to leave
Oh wow now after John Bell's mysterious death in 1820 the bellwitch continued to haunt his family
She even forced Betsy to break off her engagement with Joshua Gardner before eventually disappearing for good
Now some stories claim that she promised to return to haunt John Bell's direct descendants in 1935
But there are no reports
From Nashville physician dr. Charles Bailey Bell who would have been the direct descendant
Well dr. Charles Bailey Bell. Please reach
Grave Garden Tales podcast. Yeah, I think I have experience anything if dr. Bell's still around. He's really old
Okay, so family have dr. Charles Bailey Bell. Please reach out to
But I'm telling you and and growing up around here
um, you know the stories of the bell I mean we had we had
We talked about the bellwitch in school
I remember in elementary school discussing this, you know, you'd hear these stories on and on and on
There's multiple books
um
About the bellwitch and they go into detail of the story and if you've never really sat down in red
um the history of the bellwitch of Adams Tennessee
Take the time to do so it is it is just it's enthralling it will pull you in
And it will really make you question
What this doesn't this does not sound like a hoax which you know the bell family was accused of that many times
um, you know, this sounded like
Some somebody if it was Katie bats or someone else um
someone had
knowledge of
The black arts and was able to
To do this much harm to this one family
And if you want to hear a podcast about it
Our good buddy scotten forest over to astonishing legends did a multi-part series years ago
Yeah on the bellwitch and it was awesome
So if you want to hear a long form discussion about it go check them out astonishing legends if you haven't listened to them already
But Adam, I think this this is the perfect leading
To our follow-up show that will be over on patreon where we're going to discuss the ghost stories
Uh from Appalachia
Um tonight we decided we were going to focus on the legends, but there are so many ghost stories and and they come from things like this the bellwitch
um other
uh
Other experiences that are similar
um some of them are just good old-fashioned
You don't go down here because
This is gonna get you you know the this this person's yeah
This person's ghost this evil spirit if you see a blue light in the woods don't go after it because it's uh
All of those things so we're gonna be discussing those in uh in a patreon episode
So only on patreon only on patreon. So if you want to get the rest of this story if you want to hear
All of those ghost stories
You got to tune in join patreon now is a great time to do it. You're gonna get some bonus content and of course um
You know all the all the uh the new things that adam and i have in the works uh for our patreon
members and
We thank you guys so much for sticking with us for so long. We appreciate it
It's how adam and i keep the show rolling um, so we really appreciate you go over there and take a look at that stuff um
But you know, this is this is the time of the show where we ask hey what do you think um
We know we we said at the beginning of the show we did not cover everything this was not um
And a to z primer uh for
Appalachian legends
And i know that we've got listeners that know so many more that that live in that area have lived in that area their whole lives had family in that area their whole lives
Um, we would love to hear your Appalachian legend legends and the best place to share those is in our Facebook group
Go on Facebook. It's called the graveyard. We've got thousands of members that share stories like this all the time
We love to hear them. It's a it's a safe place. No one's gonna make fun of you
No one's gonna think you're a loony
Everybody just wants to hear these incredibly cool stories um
When you're done there you can check out our website which is graveyard podcast.com and there you can find links to purchase
Graveyard tells merchandise you can even listen to the show
And that is where you can sign up to become a patron and get access to all of that that great bonus content
Who lowered this was this was a fun one? It's gonna it's gonna get even more fun um
But until next time we'll save you a seat in the graveyard