Ask HTM - Medical Bill Negotiation Sites, Choosing Between a Car or House, & A Bike Commuter Frugal or Cheap #709

A new podcast from The Creators of Up and Vanished. Louisville police are searching for a missing 24-year-old woman. When I read about Alana Chen's disappearance, I couldn't look away. A shy girl from Boulder, who wanted to be a nun since she was a teenager. So Alana was like sneaking out to go to church? But she kept a secret, one that was slowly tearing her apart. I didn't know she was attracted to girls, no, she didn't tell me. Yes, some other says her daughter first opened up to a priest at her church when she was just 14 years old. However, the church denies any conversions therapy was done. She didn't tell me, she told me. I have. She confessed to him. From Tenderfoot TV comes a new podcast about the price we pay to belong and the systems that pay no price at all. This is dear Alana. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app or Apple Podcasts. For an exclusive binge of the whole season, subscribe to TenderfootPlus at TenderfootPlus.com. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm weird, you're weird, we're all weird about money. I'm Paco Delio, like to proudly present to you a brand new podcast called Weird Finance. A show to help us all feel a little less weird about money, one conversation at a time. So if you want to feel a little less weird about money and you also want to hear people have honest and real conversations, tune in to Weird Finance, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get podcasts. Welcome to Had a Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt. And today we're answering your listener questions. Now what buddy, this is an Ask How to Money episode. This is a Monday episode and by the way, speaking of this coming on a Monday's, we're actually going to make a little tweak to the format of the show. Not only will you be getting these listener questions episodes every other week, you're going to be getting them every single week. This is a change that we're making. And every Monday, you can now expect an Ask How to Money episode here in your feed. Yeah, so by popular demand, Matthew, or just by eDix, by the two of us. We've decided, but also we have gotten so many great listener questions. That's not really one of the main reasons. We're one of the funnest things for us to do here. Yes, and so many people submit questions and we're not able to get to all of them. And we're just, hey, if we tackle twice as many, then we'll probably get to most of them, which is great. So we're talking to a friend about this and I looked in our folder where we keep all, basically all of the listener questions that come in. And then we kind of mark the ones that we want to, you know, we kind of line them up and depending on the content, depending on the specific question. But there are over 270 unanswered listener questions that we have not gotten to over. And then granted, this is over the course of five years. To our shame in some ways, unfortunately. Yeah, I think in a way, we feel bad that we can't get to all the questions that people have. That's what the Facebook group is for as well. By the way, people can go in there, help each other out. And some of them are repeats, right? Like some of them are very similar to other questions. Okay, we've talked about it before. But it would be fun to be able to get to more of them. Exactly. And so I think that's really the goal here. And so hopefully this encourages you too if you're like, I might, I thought about submitting a listener question, but man, they do it every other week. Are they actually going to get to mine? Well, hopefully we'll be able to get to yours now. So yeah, feel, feel more encouraged even to submit a question to us that Matt and I can take on the next Ask HTML episode, which comes out two weeks from today. Next Monday. One week from today. And by the way, this does not mean that we're not going to have interviews. We'll be sharing more about, we're not going to spend the entire, this entire episode, talking about the format of the show. Let's keep moving. I wanted to ask you, what do you think about my new kids bike sitting against the office wall? I actually forgot about it. I know it sat there almost like half the day before you were like, why do you have a kids bike? Did you punch a kid and take their bike? It's not cool. My new 24-incher. No, I wanted to mention this. So it was Evie's birthday last week. And she had been mentioning for a while that she doesn't have a bike that fits her anymore to my great shame. The fact that we haven't had her properly outfitted. It's literally kept us from being able to go on family rides. Especially when you and I and our families, we prioritize biking so heavily. It's something that we had just not gotten to. And really, all right, this is Furbert. They will make sure to get her an awesome bike. I was looking specifically at like this fancy lightweight specialized bike. And I was getting really close to pulling the trigger on it. And I thought, wait a minute. I need to see if I can find this thing used, hopped on Facebook Marketplace. And I didn't find that specific bike. But I found one that was very, very similar. It was also a 24-inch. And I was able to get an incredible deal. It was an REI co-op 24-inch Rev City is the specific bike. I know the name because I looked it up because I wanted to know the cost. Brand new. These jokers are 400 bucks. Currently they're on sale at REI for like 280, I think. I was able to get this thing used. It actually was an excellent condition for 135 bucks. That's sweet, man. Yeah, the lady she had purchased it for her daughter. I think during the pandemic, she wrote it like four times, quickly outgrew it. And she's like, I gotta unload this bike now. That's what happens with those kids. You and I were talking the other day. And it's the same thing with kid shoes. I do not buy expensive shoes for my kids because I grow them in a matter of what seems like weeks. I know it's probably more like months, but still. It feels like weeks. Yeah, and bikes are some like, but you also don't want to buy them a super heavy complete piece of crap because it'll disincentivize them. The weight is one of the biggest things because when they're big and the kids can't handle them, it makes it not very fun to ride them. And I do feel like those REI bikes are probably that perfect middle of the road for a whole lot of people where they're not crazy expensive. It's about $500, $600 models you can get. Boy, they're on sale. That's what I was looking at. That's what I was looking at. That makes sense. But when you get them used, you can get them even better, even less than that. The only benefit of having four kids, I mean, it's expensive in lots of different ways, is that I can kind of justify the money I spend on bikes because I'm like, all right, there's a chance that at least three other kids would ride this bike. That's a good point. That's one thing. I would have been willing to drop four or five hundred bucks on a nicer bike knowing that, but I'm also glad that I didn't have to do that. So just a reminder for folks out there, there are deals to be had on Facebook Market. One of the random thing on REI bikes, I think they have some sort of trade-up system at a lot of stores where they'll give you a decent chunk off the next upgrade you make if your kid outgrows that version. And so you at least want to check in and see, okay, cool, if I buy it here and I return it, I think if you upgrade within the next three years, they'll give you a substantial discount on the next one. So that's cool too. I mean, REI is a great company, so I'm making good stuff. But Matt, all right, let's mention the beer we're having on this episode. This is going to mispronounce this probably. Kanazawa. Hayakumung Pale Ale. So this is another Japanese beer, our last Japanese beer from listener Julia. I thought you did well, Joel. Thank you. That was pathetic, really. But we do our best here. But we're excited to try this one and we'll give our thoughts at the end of the episode. Absolutely. But let's get to listener questions. Of course, now we're doing this weekly. So feel free to submit yours. You can submit at howtomoney.com slash ask that are simple instructions for you to record a voice memo and get it sent our way. But let's get to the first question for today's episode. Matt, this one is specifically car related. Hi, Matt and Joel. My name is Starlene. I'm calling from Montana. I'm a long time listener of your show and appreciate all the advice you guys give your listeners. My question for you guys is if I should pay off my car loan early versus keeping that money aside for a future home purchase. I owe less on the car than it is worth and I have an interest rate of 3.75%. I have about 15% saved up for a house. Now I'm about a year out from that home purchase and it would be my first home. So I know I don't necessarily need the full 20%. But if I pay off this car, it would take that savings from 15% to about 5%. And a small back story is I am 32 years old. I currently have no other debts besides this car. And I didn't make the best decisions in my 20s. But now at 32, I am making better decisions. I have 8 months worth of an emergency savings set aside separate from that home savings. And I'm contributing to my 401k, HSA, and a Roth. And I just want to make sure I'm making the best decision. I don't want this to affect my credit score negatively or my ability to get a home in the future. I'd appreciate any advice you guys have or if I'm maybe missing anything that you could point out. Thanks for all you do. All right, Darleen. Thank you so much for listening to the show for so long now. And let's go ahead and dive into it as to whether or not you should pay off that car loan or not. For most folks, we are fans of not having a car loan in the first place. We don't like them. No, absolutely not. Yeah, bottom line, we don't want you paying interest to a financier, a bank. But specifically, this is important to keep in mind, especially these days, like with car prices being sky high and interest rates skyrocketing, with that in mind, like it's tempting to finance a car or to take out a longer loan in order to afford the car that you want that you're looking at. And again, it's not that it's never okay. It's just that we want most folks thinking about how they can slash what they spend on cars or transportation. Which would in turn allow them to funnel more money into income producing assets instead of doing what everybody else is doing out there, which is buying cars that they can't really afford. Yeah, and it's a mindset thing too. It's like how much, how little can I spend on a car? So I can do awesome other stuff versus like, well, how much am I allowed to spend on a car? Which is kind of the personal finance question most people ask. Yeah. So, Darleen, I'm also a little, I'm going to apologize for basically beating you up right out of the gate and pointing out this mistake. And so, with that in mind, let's also mention that you've made some insanely awesome financial progress since those early mistakes that you mentioned to be in this position, right? Having this much saved in addition to the amount that you have on hand for home savings for a down payment, that is truly incredible. And by the way, she said the rate on that car loan is 3.75%, which although we don't like car loans, that's not about rate, especially in today's interest rate environment. You can make more on that in savings, which is sweet. So yeah. No, Darleen has been crushing it in recent years, that's for sure. And eight months worth of savings, right? That puts her really far along the financial independent spectrum that we just want to cash on hand, which I love. We talked about that a couple of months ago and how man, that much, well, it gives you a lot of options, more options than the average person. And so, that dedication has paid off in a bunch of added flexibility that she's been able to garner. There's so much more mental and time freedom that you can amass when you've been able to save, when you've been able to suck away that much. And in addition to that, Matt, like I said, this car loan is more benign, 3.75% interest rate. It's like nobody's mad about that right now because of what they can do to make their money more productive if they've got low interest rate debt. This is why we tell people, no, don't bother, don't worry about, don't focus on paying off that low interest rate mortgage early that are more productive things you can do with those dollars. And so because that's the case, we would tell Darleen, there's just no reason to pay off this debt more quickly than you need to pay it off as agreed. We would rather see you putting extra money towards saving for that home purchase. And like you said, Darleen, like it's certainly not a requirement to save 20% to put down on that house, but it's a goal we're shooting for. And you're not too far off from that goal. So by not paying off your car loan, it looks like you might actually be able to get there because you still got a little bit of time left to hit that goal. If I were you, that's what I'd be shooting for. Totally. Yeah. And she also mentioned her credit score at the end of the question as well. That's another consideration. Were you to pay that off? You'd be eliminating an installment loan and your credit mix. And so that's another factor, the fact that by eliminating this loan, it would potentially deem your credit, especially if you've had that car loan for a number of years. Yeah. You don't want to necessarily let the tail wag the dog on the credit score thing. But if you paid off right before right here applying for loans, it's going to have an impact, which then could really come back to bichen the button. You're stuck with a higher interest rate mortgage than maybe you otherwise wouldn't would have been able to get your hands quarter or half point higher. That makes a difference in those monthly payments and the overall amount you pay for that house. Yeah. Yeah. And plus if you are able to get to that 20% down, which again, it sounds like you should be able to, if not, I think even considering a more affordable house might be the solution. But if so, this means that you'll be able to avoid PMI, private mortgage insurance, if you're taking out a conventional loan, which this expense, it can be a pesky additional monthly cost. How much that will be? It'll depend on the price of the home that you're buying. But it could be a couple hundred bucks every single month. And having that extra cash to put down will also help you to qualify for the best rates from the bank or a credit union. And it's going to lower that monthly payment, which we love to see. And so considering where you're at financially, and you know that you've got some time before you start making offers. We think that you should keep padding that down payment fund as opposed to getting rid of that car loan from your life altogether. I also love how she said she was keeping those separate right to eight months worth of savings versus the home down payment fund. I like that they're not this like commingled app. We'll see what happens. Like there are separate goals for money here, and they're allocated accordingly. And so I think that's a smart approach. And it sounds like, you know, Darleen is being wise when it comes to saving for this home. And I do think that, yeah, you're right, Matt, like not paying off this car loan early is probably on multiple levels going to be the best bet, helping her to be able to buy this home with ease, get the best rates, get the best terms. And you know what? Eventually that car is going to be gone anyway. It's going to be out of her life in the not too distant future. Well, I'm glad that you mentioned that too, because I think that it depends on Darleen's risk tolerance as well. But eight months, it's a little above and beyond the standard three to six months worth of living expenses. And so Darleen, I mean, honestly, I feel like I love keeping money categorized and separate and distinct from each other. But I think it might be worth considering, do I need those additional two months worth of living expenses? Maybe you can kind of, it doesn't have to, it's not a binary decision. It's not a dichotomy, right? It's not, I'm going to completely deplete my emergency fund, or I'm not going to touch it at all. Maybe you could shave a couple months worth off that way you're still, you know, you still have a solid six months worth of living expenses on hand. It's able to kind of juice that down payment a little bit and kind of gives you that emotional wind that, oh, man, I am so close. If I take two months worth of living expenses from over here, that means I've only got maybe six, seven, eight, nine months left before I've got that full 20% to put down. Exactly. I think you can pull some from it. You just don't want to depleted the buy the house of your dreams and be house for it, right? Like that would be ill advised. But if you're pulling a little bit because, hey, six months is still plenty. And then, and you can always work on building that up after the facts, but getting that 20% mark is, is huge. And, you know, not not many first time home buyers achieve it, but I think if you can, it's, it's worth, it's worth doing. And the fact too that you're also investing, you know, you're contributing to your HSA, your 401k, your Roth, you're doing all of the above, which is a great news. And because choosing to not pay down debt, the truth is it's only a wise move if you have better options. And there are some people out there who might call in and they would say, hey, should I leave, let this debt linger, but they don't necessarily have better things to do with the money. They're like, I was thinking about buying a jet ski or something like that, or I was going to try to go up in space with Richard Branson, something like that, spend the money on just something to goof off or whatever. It's probably not a good thing to do why you still got debt lingering in your life. And so what you choose to do with the money instead of paying off the debt, that is kind of at the crux of this question. That's all the difference in the world. Yeah, because if somebody's got a gambling problem where they're like, I'm just going to spend it on clothes if I don't pay off this debt. Whether it's big or small, then we would say, go ahead and pay off the debt because there's a direct return on your money. It's better than just furthering it away. But it sounds like, of course, Darlene has demonstrated a high level of discipline and she's doing really smart things with her money. She's got meaningful good goals. I would say she's got what it takes to handle her money in a more nuanced manner, letting this debt linger while she sucks away more in savings to hit that 20% mark so she can buy that awesome house. That's right. Yeah. And by the way, I think it's worth mentioning too. I don't want to add to the cult of home ownership. And I think there are a lot of options for folks out there. Darlene, I don't want to, like, I don't want this just necessarily to be a slam dunk decision because you know that this is like, quote unquote, the wise thing to do because in some cases, it may not be the wise thing to do. Because if you're only looking at the numbers, maybe it makes sense for you to rent as cheaply as possible. We talked about that not too long ago, how renting makes sense in almost all a lot of major markets. So it has to be a personal choice, something that you really want to do. Yeah. You're not buying the home because it's the quote unquote smart personal finance. Yeah. And so the reason I highlight that is because I think it's worth owning and addressing the fact that when you buy a home, there is some consumption involved. You are doing this as a lifestyle upgrade in part. It just so happens that this lifestyle purchase is one that typically appreciates and value as opposed to depreciating, which is pretty much everything else that you can spend your money on if you're not investing it. So we want you to make sure that you're approaching the home buying process from the right angle as well, not just like as a default assumption that this is something that you've got to do. For sure. All right, Matt, we got more money questions to get to including investing advice for travel nurse. We'll get to that and more right after this. A new podcast from the creators have up and vanished. Lewisville police are searching for a missing 24 year old woman. When I read about Alana Chenn's disappearance, I couldn't look away. A shy girl from Boulder who wanted to be a nun since she was a teenager. So Alana was like sneaking out to go to church, but she kept a secret one that was slowly tearing her apart. I didn't know she was attracted to girls. Nope, she didn't tell me. Yes, some other says her daughter first opened up to a priest at her church when she was just 14 years old. However, the church denies any conversions therapy was done. She didn't tell me she told him she confessed to him. From Tenderfoot TV comes a new podcast about the price we paid up along and the systems that pay no price at all. This is dear Alana. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app or Apple podcasts. For an exclusive binge of the whole season, subscribe to TenderfootPlus at TenderfootPlus.com. This is the unbelievable but true story of George Remus. You might know him as a character from Boardwalk Empire or as the inspiration for Jay Gatsby. He was an eccentric and genius lawyer who figured out how to game the system during prohibition. Remus is in the whiskey business and Remus is the biggest man in the business. While living the life of luxury with his glamorous and ambitious wife Imagine. Daddy, I am so glad you are here. But George Remus' wild existence took a dark and shocking turn. Leading to betrayal, she had Remus just exactly where she wanted him. Revenge? Feel this muscle. I got this for Remus. I could crush him like an egg. And one of the most sensational murder trials in American history. We the jury find the defendant. Join me, Abbott Kaler, as we trace George Remus' transformation from bootleg king to a legend madman. Listen to Remus, the mad bootleg king. Every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there. I'm Entertainment and lifestyle reporter Tommy Tiderio. I've been doing interviews on the red carpet for quite a while. But only so much can be said in such little time. I'm often left wanting more. That's why I started this podcast to create a space to get to even deeper, more meaningful conversations. On my new show, I've never said this before. I'll be talking to different artists and the stars of your favorite movies and shows and getting the full story. We'll be talking about their favorite projects, their journeys to success, and all the things they've learned along the way. And of course, as the title suggests, I'll also be asking all of my guests to tell me at least one thing that they've never said before. So join me for a conversation you won't want to miss. Subscribe now and listen to, I've never said this before, with Tommy Tiderio on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, just realized we didn't tease to some of the questions here at the top of the episode. Because we're all caught up talking about the format of the show. But we do have plenty of additional questions to get to. We're going to be hearing from a listener who's actually asking about basically a frugal or cheap when it comes to biking. We'll get to that one here in a second. But first, let's hear from a listener who is using this new hospital bill negotiating service. Or specifically, he's wondering if he should use it. Is it legit? Let's hear it. Hey guys, Joe Nugin here from New Eagle Michigan. I had a question for you about a company I recently learned about called Good Bill. I had to take my 18-month-old son into the emergency room. He was having an allergic reaction. Thankfully, by the time we got in there, everything had kind of calmed down. And they really didn't have to do anything to him. They just saw him and gave him some Ben androle. But we got a large emergency bill for that less than an hour visit that we did. And I was doing some Google and then found a company called Good Bill that will negotiate to save you money on your health care bills. And they will charge you 20% of whatever they save you. So just calm to see if you guys have heard anything about this or any recommendations you would have. Alright, thanks guys. Again, that company is called Good Bill. Thanks. I'm guessing that's an expensive Ben androle. Seriously? I thought you were paid for it. The emergency rooms, Matthew, I don't know if you noticed. They don't charge fair, reasonable prices. It's ridiculous. It's like $150 for an IP profit. I can't imagine what Ben androle cost with. That's a specialty. Right, exactly. I mean, yeah, it can be crazy, crazy expensive. Joe, we're glad your son is okay. Yes. And just a note really to everyone else out there. I mean, first off, take any sort of medical advice that we give with a grain of salt. Any advice that you think we might be giving with a grain of salt? Even the money advice. You should do your due diligence. This is for entertainment purposes only, Joel. I mean, kind of. But we do think- Legally, yes, 100%. But there's a whole lot that we want you to learn a lot. But we also want you to second guess us and think for yourself and go to other sources at the same time. But on the medical front, speaking to what Joe was talking about at the beginning, going to the emergency room is a really, really expensive thing. And there are cheaper options out there. So, urgent care is often a better option because you're going to get seen more quickly. Your bill is going to be a whole lot less than it would be if you go straight to the ER. But so much depends on what sort of injury or health issue you're dealing with. Sometimes just go into your local grocery store or pharmacy, the dock in the box sort of thing. Those can be enough. Just depends on what time of day it is and what's going on. I know. And especially Joe, I sympathize with you when you got a little kiddo who can't talk. We 100% get the reason for taking him in. Totally. It's better safe than sorry, right? Of course. But just a plug for some of those in-between services that can make sense in many cases. If you go to the wrong one, you could be stuck with a bill. And it's much, much larger. Many times larger than if you just go into the right place at the very beginning. Yeah. Which Chris Farley movie was it where he sits, like he gets in the plane or the helicopter, he sits back against the B. Is it a black sheep? Black sheep or Tommy? Yeah. It's Tommy Boy. They're like the car salesman stuff. Yeah. If your kid's swelling up like Chris Farley in black sheep, better safe than sorry. But the problem is, is that this kind of thing, it happens to folks across the country all the time. We are not considering, I guess, some of the additional ramifications of visiting an actual ER at the, quote-unquote, hospital that everybody knows. And then it just shows how messed up our healthcare system is. It ends up costing folks like Joe and his family thousands of dollars that they hadn't budgeted for. It's medical that it's the leading cause of bankruptcy in our country. But the truth is that it's possible to fight back against some egregious bills like this. But just most folks just don't know how to go about doing it. And so because of that, they get on a payment plan. They want to do its rights, pay that sucker off a lot of times on the first bill. And that's one of the things we've talked about with Marshall Allen. Never pay the first bill. We understand the desire to want to pay for the services that were rendered to you. But there are ways for you to get that cost down. Well, sometimes a lot of people might, they can't pay it when the first bill comes. And so they get on this payment plan. They pay it for years in the off into the future for this one-time medical procedure or in Joe's case, this one-time administration of Benadryl, which is tough to stomach, right? And that is what puts people over a barrel. And what ultimately leads to the ruination of a lot of people's finances, it's a massive problem. So yeah, these ER bills, they are, they're no joke. And it is cool to see companies like Good Bill come along. This is what Joe mentioned in his question, right? It addresses a real need to help people be able to advocate for themselves in a system that is opaque, that is like hard to make headway in. The Good Bill is trying to do this on your behalf. And I do want to say up front, the truth is you could do this on your own, right? You can ask for an itemized bill, which in and of itself it might reduce the total bill amount, right? You can talk to a patient advocate at the hospital where the procedure was done. You might be able to get some or all of the bill written off, maybe completely forgiven, right? Depending on your family size and your income. Like when you look at the number, something like a family of four making $100,000, they could qualify for what's known as charity care in the industry. And so you just got to know that it exists and you've got to apply for it in order to make it happen. If you just get the bill, you start making payments, you have undone your rights, right? You have forsaken your ability to get a better deal on that care. So, you know, fighting medical bills, it can be kind of like learning a new language, though. It can take a lot of time, a lot of energy. And that's why Good Bill launched, it seems. And by the way, one of the cool things about Good Bill, they say, if they can't save you money, you don't pay a dime. So that is nice, right? You're giving them a chance? It feels like it's very little risk. Yeah. Giving them a chance to argue on your behalf. And if they say, eh, sorry, we got frustrated too. There was nothing, there was nothing we can do. This bill is what it is. Well, at least you don't owe Good Bill any money. Exactly. Yeah, Good Bill, it seems like they've kind of gotten us down to a science where they're able to get results in a relatively short amount of time. But how it works is that they take your billing records and they perform a review, including they have a medical coder look for billing errors. And by doing this, this holds the hospital or the doctor's office accountable for any upbilling or any undocumented charges that might have actually been added to the bill. Now, they also do a pricing, pricing review to ensure that you're not being billed at an inflated rate for those services. And so with all that, all that they're able to provide, I think taking 20% of the savings in order to do that work, that seems pretty dang reasonable to us. There's another service out there, co-patient. There is less written about co-patient. It seems like it's been out for a lot longer. But Good Bill seems to be their newer, but they seem to be doing a good job. I guess that's my only hesitation with Good Bill is that they are newer, but that being said, they've got awesome reviews up on BBB, up on the Better Business Bureau. And you see them responding to folks. You see that they are able to save money, save folks money. I mean, anywhere from like a few hundred dollars to like thousands of dollars of folks who have actually used Good Bill. So if it was me, I would, because of that, like I wouldn't have any hesitation, at least giving it a shot, uploading my bill, seeing if they can negotiate it down some. Yeah, Matt, this kind of makes me think that you could probably translate your favorite Russian novel into English on your own, or you could just go by the copy that's already been translated by someone else. Because that would just require you a whole lot of like learning a new language and a whole lot of time and effort. And I think like learning literally a new language as opposed to learning the quote unquote hospital coding language. Exactly. Which is similarly hard to understand in complex, right? So yes, it's possible. Yes, there are resources out there that can help you to DIY this thing. But think about your time, how much your time is worth, and how much effort you want to put into this, and probably a lot of it depends on how big that bill actually is, and how much you know, and how mad you are. Because sometimes you're just willing to fight. And you're like, I'm going to, I'm going to do this on my own. I have the gumption, I have the, whatever it is that's making you mad to actually follow through. Like this sort of like Darley's question about, well, what would you do with the money that you would have used to pay down your car, right? So for, for you, Joe, how would you spend that time otherwise? Because if you would actually put the time in to fight this thing, then man, more power to you, go for it. But I think a lot of folks aren't going to give it any time at all. And so they're, they're kind of looking for the thing that's going to get you 80% of the way there. And literally this is what they do. You can give it a shot. You can drive you 20% of whatever they say. Give it a shot for a minute. If it doesn't work out, turn it over to good bill then. But if yeah, like you, like if you're going to just kick your feet up and watch regular season baseball, and well, good bill handles it, I don't know, maybe make a couple of phone calls yourself. But good bill definitely seems like a solid service worth relying on if you like, you're button your head against a wall. That's right. All right, Joel. Our next question is from a nurse who has effectively doubled the amount of money that she makes. But she's got a problem. She's having a tough time investing. Let's hear this question. Hey, Matt and Joel. My name is Kayla. And I live in Kansas. I have been listening to your podcast for about five months now. And I have a question for you. I'm a travel nurse. And I have been trying to look into starting my retirement fund. The issue that I have is that I am not a contract worker. I do not own my own business. I get a W2 from these companies. So I don't qualify for a set by R.A. or a solo 401k. And most of these companies either do not offer retirement benefits or if they do, like where I am now, they require you to be employed with them for at least a year to qualify for the benefit. And to be able to start contributing. But each job assignment is about three months long. And sometimes I change jobs in companies two or three times a year, depending on the job, the pay, the needs of the hospital. So I don't know what to do because I'm not with the company long enough to start contributing or I'm not offered the benefit. And if I do stay long enough to qualify, and then I have to quit shortly after and go with another company, then I have to wait a whole another year to be able to roll over the old account to a new account. I'm just a little confused on all of it and I don't know what to do. So if you could help me out, I'd really appreciate it. I love the podcast. It's the only money podcast that I've listened to that kind of simplifies the financial goals to make me feel like they're actually achievable. So thank you for your help in my question and thank you for creating a great show. Matt, you know I'm partial to alliteration. She's Kayla in Kansas, which I dig. I guess I like that. And she's a traveler. So she might end up being Kayla in Connecticut. Is she going to be Kayla in Colorado? There's so many possibilities here. Well, and we're so glad to hear the podcast have been helpful Kayla. Thank you for listening. And yeah, making money relevant, simplifying the complex. That's the goal, man. That's the heart of what we try to do here. And Kayla, Matt, is in an interesting position here, right? Because that one-year timeline to be able to contribute to a workplace retirement account, at least to score the match, that's fairly standard, right? And so the, called a vesting period and it might take, you know, two, three, four years that your employer says, we will contribute a match, but if you leave before this, you don't actually get it, right? You've got to prove your loyalty before we will. And give you that extra little cream on top. And travel nurses are disloyal by nature. Like that is what they do. And I don't mean that like- In the best way possible. They can't be an awesome pet owner or a long time girlfriend or boyfriend even get married, right? I'm not saying that, but what it, that's the heart of what they do, is they're working two, three, four different jobs every single year. And since you're never in one place that long, you're just never going to qualify. And which puts you at a slight disadvantage when it comes to saving for retirement, which, so I get the annoyance, right? But it also, I will say, doesn't mean Kayla that you can't invest here in the future. That's right. So we'll offer our best advice to help you get started, to help you get going down that path. Yeah. I mentioned to how she might be eligible, but even still after she leaves, she can't roll it over for another year, which would just be a massive pain in the butt if you're at multiple hospitals over the course of the year. So even if you could do that and you were willing to stay there for whatever period of time, just leaving a trail of 401ks that you have to keep up with and roll over, honestly, seems like a massive pain in the butt. I would want something that is my own that I never have to worry about as far as rolling over. But one of the perks of being a travel nurse, besides getting to see a lot of the country wherever it is that you're taking a job, any place to start to the seat or OK, only for her, you get to enjoy these cool places that you might not get to visit otherwise. I think that's great. But you also often get paid way more than a nurse who is going to stay in one place. That's going to stay put data from the BLS. They show that on average, travel nurses are making roughly twice as much as staff nurses. So it's roughly $3,200 a week versus $1,600 a week. And in some states, it's even more than that. It's more than that. It's like, yeah, substantially more. If I was Kayla, I'd go to Kauai. I would see what they pay there. Surprisingly, the gap is the least in Hawaii specifically, because that's where all the travel nurses want to go. I think that's why. But Kayla, it could as to you for getting your nursing degree, maxing your income by going this route. And yeah, while you may not be able to take advantage of a traditional or a solo 401k, there are certainly other ways that you can invest. On top of just some of the other benefits that a lot of hospitals are paying out to travel nurses as well, like stipend for housing. We're free housing in some cases. But if not free housing, a stipend for housing. Relocation expenses paying for mileage as well. There's just a lot of... I don't even know a lot of these benefits existed, but there's a host of sweet benefits. And travel nursing is looking like... Seriously, like this life hack. You're thinking about going back and getting your degree? I'm thinking about it. Yeah. I mean, my mother-in-law did that very thing. She went down to St. Thomas, and was a travel nurse there for, I think, 18 months or something, which is longer than Kayla Stentz, but it was a way to just pretty sweet. Get to live in paradise for a year and a half. Not have to fully commit to something, but she got paid more than a lot of the staff nurses there, for sure. But really Matt, while you're talking about here, another one of the ways that we would encourage Kayla to invest in her IRA, right? Preferably a Roth IRA. It's individual retirement account, which means that your employer has no oversight, no involvement in this account at all. Doesn't matter who you work for. Yeah, it's you and the custodian of that account that you want to open it up with. And so, yeah, it's one of our favorite retirement accounts. It comes with a lot of flexibility. We'd make that your preferred account to start with. Open it up, max it out like clockwork each and every year. Preferably with one of our low-cost favorites, like Fidelity Vanguard or Schwab. But the one downside to your Roth IRA is that there's an annual contribution limit of $6,500. So, if you're looking to Sockaway more than that, and let's be honest, Matt, Travel nurse is making bank. I want to Sockaway more than that. Kayla's problem is, what do I do with all my money? Yeah, because I'm making bank. Yeah, and so you can't do it with this account because you can't contribute more than that in a given year. But your first goal for retirement savings should be to max this account out, preferably investing in low-cost index funds or a total stock market fund. And after that, things do get a little bit murky here. That's right, yeah. So Kayla, maxing out a Roth IRA, that like, honestly, that is a huge goal for many folks. And I think going beyond that, it is probably going to seem unattainable for most folks. But I think for you, maybe you, this is the situation that you're finding yourself in. And so we just talked about the Roth. One thing we didn't mention is the HSA, which has a triple tax advantage. But this is where things do get a little bit murky. Kayla, because given that you work for different hospitals, maybe you get an awesome Cadillac health insurance healthcare plan that's included. And if so, then an HSA is not something you want to consider. And honestly, even if it is a plan that is a high deductible plan, and you do want to open an HSA, things get a little trickier there as well, because similar to opening a 401k with an employer, you're stuck with the paperwork and the hassle of going from one to another to another, and you've got all of these different accounts. But that being said, if you have a high deductible plan, say via the healthcare.gov, you've got your own high deductible health care plan that you are carrying with you, then an HSA, a health savings account, could possibly be an awesome way for you to really take advantage of some of the tax breaks that are given to you for socking some of those money away. That you're investing, you're not using this money to actually pay for your healthcare costs, and with you being younger, maybe this might seem especially appealing given that, you know, maybe you aren't spending a ton of money on actual healthcare. Yeah, and that way, if you do have your own health insurance, high deductible health insurance plan, you can open up that HSA directly with a low cost company like lively or fidelity, those are two of the best, and that way the record keeping is a whole lot easier as opposed to like you said Matt, having like five HSAs a year, which just gets confusing in overwhelming. For sure. Exactly. But beyond those two, right, beyond the Roth, beyond the HSA, the next account you should consider, is probably just a plain old taxable brokerage account. They don't get as much press as our favorite tax advantage ones out there, but they're pretty good too. Honestly, there's a lot of folks who are quite wealthy, who are millionaires, who are living off of their investments, most of their money is typically in brokerage accounts because they haven't been able to a mass such a stockpile within the different retirement accounts that have limits placed on them. Well, the nice thing about brokerage accounts too is added flexibility. So let's say some of that money, you can even invest for a future home purchase that isn't gonna happen when you reach retirement age because you can access those funds before 59.5, which is nice. That might be a goal that you have seven, eight years off into the future, and that's something that, if you do have a goal to invest that far in advance, you do want to invest that money, and this is how you would invest that money, speaking of houses. Like, I'm thinking about real estate, like that probably isn't a good option given your line of work, right, buying an investment property, you're traveling all the time. You probably don't want to, again, be tied to a specific location. So the taxable brokerage account, that's probably your next best bets. And again, there are no contribution limits, which means that you can sock away as much as you want to after you've maxed out your rough contributions, of course. But I'm glad Kayla that you brought up travel nursing as an option for a lot of folks because it really does feel like this awesome life hack, right? Like the ability to make bank in your 20s. While you're younger, you're traveling around a lot, which is fun. You're not necessarily looking to put down roots. And granted, I don't think travel nursing is paying quite as much as it was during the pandemic. I feel like it hit a peak because hospitals were severely understaffed. There was a shortage of nurses. But that being said, it seems like that the pay is still significantly higher for travel nurses versus a staff nurse. For sure. Yeah, so sounds like Kayla's doing it right. She just needs to funnel more money into accounts for her future, letting that money grow and compound. And I think the combo of the Roth and taxable brokerage account, maybe that HSA, depending on the specifics, makes a lot of sense. But Matt, we got a couple more questions to get to, including one about speaking out real estate, using an IRA to pay for a house. Is that smart? Ooh, we'll discuss that and more right after this. A new podcast from the creators of Up and Vanished. Louisville Police, her searching for a missing 24-year-old woman. When I read about Alana Chen's disappearance, I couldn't look away. A shy girl from Boulder, who wanted to be a nun since she was a teenager. So Alana was like sneaking out to go to church. But she kept a secret, one that was slowly tearing her apart. I didn't know she was attracted to girls. Nope, she didn't tell me. Yes, some other says her daughter first opened up to a priest at her church when she was just 14 years old. However, the church denies any conversion therapy was done. She didn't tell me. She told him. She confessed to him. From Tenderfoot TV, comes a new podcast about the price we pay to belong and the systems that pay no price at all. This is Dear Alana. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app or Apple Podcasts. For an exclusive binge of the whole season, subscribe to TenderfootPlus at TenderfootPlus.com. This is the unbelievable but true story of George Remus. You might know him as a character from Boardwalk Empire or as the inspiration for Jay Gatsby. He was an eccentric and genius lawyer who figured out how to game the system during prohibition. Remus is in the whiskey business and Remus is the biggest man in the business. While living the life of luxury with his glamorous and ambitious wife, Imagine. Daddy, I am so glad you are here. But George Remus' wild existence took a dark and shocking turn. Leading to betrayal, she had Remus just exactly where she wanted him. Revenge? Feel this muscle. I got this for Remus. I could crush him like an egg. And one of the most sensational murder trials in American history. We the jury find the defendant. Join me, Abbott Kaler, as we trace George Remus' transformations from bootleg king to alleged madman. Listen to Remus, the mad bootleg king, every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there. I'm Entertainment and Lifestyle Reporter Tommy Tiderio. I've been doing interviews on the red carpet for quite a while. But only so much can be said in such little time. I'm often left wanting more. That's why I started this podcast to create a space to get to even deeper, more meaningful conversations. On my new show, I've never said this before. I'll be talking to different artists and the stars of your favorite movies and shows and getting the full story. We'll be talking about their favorite projects, their journeys to success, and all the things they've learned along the way. And of course, as the title suggests, I'll also be asking all of my guests to tell me at least one thing that they've never said before. So join me for a conversation you won't want to miss. Subscribe now and listen to, I've never said this before, with Tommy Tiderio on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We are back. And yes, we do have a couple more questions to get to, including the one about that real estate purchase. But Joel, first, we're going to hear from a listener. This one is from a man after our own heart. Hi, man, Joel. This is Wayne from Philadelphia. It's actually the third question that you're answering for me, which I think puts me in the coveted three-question club. I expect my membership card is in the mail. All right, enough shenanigans to the topic, or the question at hand. So I have a coworker that I am trying to convince to bike into the office. During one of the conversations that I had with this coworker, he expressed something odd to me, and I wanted to run it past you guys. Figured it'd be a good, frugular cheap. Basically, I pay $25 a month. So when I get to the office, I can use the gym that my office is partnered with, so I don't smell like a terrible man who just biked into the office. My coworker friend says that I am the outlier, that he doesn't know anyone who bikes into the office and takes a shower before working. Sans me, of course. So my assumption was that if you bike into the office, you have to take a shower. Just kind of part of that unspoken office hygiene rule kind of deal. So is my buddy being frugal or cheap? Am I weird with my showering ways? Should I take that $25 and throw it into like my Roth IRA? Will the questions ever end? No, I will contact you again. But hey, thanks for taking time to listen to this, and yeah, very much so looking forward to seeing what you guys think. Wayne out, kind of like best friends out, but Wayne, that. Or shop it. We get it, Wayne. Wayne's an honorary bestie. Oh, yeah, for sure. It's so funny, too. I like the sense of humor, Wayne. And by the way, the first rule of the three-question club is to not talk about the three-question club. I thought you knew that, and now it's public knowledge, and this is not good. Honorary membership revoked. Yeah, sorry, kicking me to the curb, Wayne. No, we feel free to hold it up for 10 seconds there. Anytime, we love taking repeat questions from people who've been listening for a while, so. And also, frugal or cheap questions, they're always fun, because they're the kind of things that people who are trying to get their finances in order are inevitably going to struggle with. I love the frugal or cheap as a concept mat and as a way of thinking through things. And you know what, if you're really trying to axe expenses, you're probably going to have some of those frugal or cheap conundrums in your life. I don't know, I like it. I like this question. Is this friend right? Or is this friend going too far? I think maybe perhaps his friend is the one being, because that's what he's asking. He's not saying, is it frugal or cheap that I bike to work? He's saying, is my friend being frugal or cheap? Because I am coming in, I'm taking a shower. Nothing wrong with biking to work. No, in fact. So if that's what you're asking, I mean, I guess there's a couple of things tied up in here, tied up in this question. The fact that your coworker doesn't know anybody else who bikes into work. Who cares? We're huge fans of more biking. We love that you're spreading the gospel of biking and to work specifically in the reason we bring this up. There have been some anti-bikes creeds in some of the major publications recently. We're looking at you, New York Times. The Wall Street Journal had one too. I'm just so annoyed. Everyone's hating on the bikers. Look at how dangerous and bad biking is. We need more people and bikes, not less. And as you know, you can save a good bit of money by biking. But what about showering after your bike ride? I think that depends on a few things, specifically the length of your commute. Joel, you and I, we don't have to bike all that far these days, which means we don't work up all that much sweat. We don't get too stinky. Plus, it's just you and me. We're not in some corporate office. We're only offending each other or best friends. Not the entire staff or not the entire department where you've got multiple opinions and differences of opinion that you have to contend with. Many more nostrils that you could potentially offend. Exactly. So, no, I agree. In part, maybe how hilly is that commute? Because the more hills, the more sweat, how hot is the day? I mean, there's a lot of things to take into consideration. But overall, I would say Matt, you're right. Like, the longer the sweatier the worst your commute actually is, the more likely you're going to want to actually take that shower. More than anything just to be conscientious of others around you. I used to bike to work. It was about, I want to say like seven miles each way, seven and a half miles each way. But it was really flat. And so, sometimes I would bike hard and then I would feel the need to get cleaned up. Other times, I would just take a nice leisurely pace, enjoy myself. And because even though it was like eight, you know, seven and a half miles, I was able to do it in a way that I didn't work out much for sweat because of how flat it was for most of the way. It's pretty chill. Yeah, you're going to take that into consideration as well. But the truth is, if your commute is longer, more arduous and your sweat levels are bordering on offensive, showering makes sense. It's a polite thing to do. And honestly, I think it might actually help you come out ahead financially in the long run. You might get disrespected around your office, right? If you are, you know, show up in your Spandex and you smell like B.O., right? I mean, I think that that could be a real problem, a real hindrance to you advancing in your career, right? If you're known as a sweaty biker guy, it might draw more iron from the people around you, your bosses, your coworkers, then respect. And so, yeah, think of that $25 as an investment in those relationships, right? And maybe even in your career, no, you're not throwing it away, right? You're prioritizing those relationships and your future earnings possibilities, social norms, in addition to the amount that you might be able to earn in the future. Just by being clean and decent, right? And so, $25 is a small price to pay to not anger them, right, to lose friends, but also to potentially lose career opportunities. And, yeah, there's also the added value of a gym membership, right? You can take advantage of, too. So, maybe it's not just the shower, but you can pump some iron, hop on the rolling machine, whatever you want to do, as well. So, in my mind, all signs point to spend the money, take the shower if you feel like you need it, and maybe, maybe even if you feel like you don't. That's right. It's not weird at all. And plus, I mean, wouldn't you just feel better taking a shower as well, than just being fresh and clean? But, I think part of this depends on how well you know your bud, your coworker there, because it's okay to have an honest conversation about office hygiene. I think it's also totally fine to make different decisions, right? Like, if your coworker decides, well, it's not that it's weird for me to bike to work, but it's just weird that you take a shower. I think that's odd. But, if that's what he wants to do, let him be the sweaty, sweaty biker dude, right? If he wants to be, it doesn't mean that you have to follow suit. Maybe what he's getting at is that he thinks it's just weird to take a shower outside of the house, because I feel like that's more of like a tradition. Like, it makes me think of old sports. I never, I didn't grow up playing football or anything like that. And so, I didn't grow up spending time in the locker room, right? Where you're like standing around with a bunch of other naked dudes. I'll be honest, it's not something I'm used to. So, when you randomly end up at the YMCA and you're in the locker room... It probably feels a little shocking. Yeah, it probably feels a little bit weird. But I also say this because the gym that I go to, there's a awesome locker room there with like six or eight showers. And I go there and I work out three days a week. And the number of times there is even a single person in that locker room taking a shower, dude. It's incredibly rare. Like, nobody is in there. And I think... I guess I just wonder if that is what his coworker thinks is weird as well. The fact that like... Oh, man, you'd actually like go to the gym and take a shower. I think for a lot of folks, it's not necessarily invoked. It feels like something from the 70s or the 80s, you know. But that being said, it's for me at least is something... It's a perk that's totally offered. It's included in the price of what I pay every single month. And so, dude, you better believe I'm there taking a shower after I work out. It's funny, actually, I take a shower after I work out. But before I bite here, but again, it's because our commute... Our bike commute's really short for. Not trying to brag or anything like that. But I've got it. I've got it real good. The cleanest dude, I know. Yes, that's true. Well, yeah, so Wayne, I would do what you think. If you think it's right to shower and then do it. And it's really... We're not talking about a super significant amount of money. And like I said, it could be money well spent, helping you endure yourself to your co-workers. Then maybe they're more likely, too, to join you on the bike in the future because they're like, oh, bikers are cool. You hit that critical mass. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, there's a whole office of all of y'all biking to work. And then when y'all are all doing that, there's other benefits for bikers that y'all could potentially advocate for. Right, the more co-workers you get to protect in biking, the more you can lobby for better benefits from your employer. Like, how about an actual bike rack? Right. We can lock up our bikes. See, there's some cool companies out there who will pay people money every single day that commute or they will help fund a new bike if you commute a certain number of days. So those are the kind of things you can say, hey, a quarter of us now bike to work because I've been so instrumental in spearheading this effort. Why don't you help us out here? And maybe it's good for their... How much they pay for health insurance plans and it's good for morale, all that kind of stuff. They might be more than willing to do that. But good question, Wayne. We look forward to question number four in the near future. But Matt, let's get to our next question. This one is about using a retirement account to pay for a real estate purchase. Hey guys, this is Matt. I'm in Georgia. And I have a pretty straightforward question. I've essentially made it through Money Gear 6. I'm looking to buy my first home. And I have a pretty good stockpile in my IRA. I have enough to put down 20 or 50 percent. In some cases, I could even pay cash for a house, just depending on what the number is. And maybe still have some leftover in the IRA. And I'm going back and forth on where to do that and what that would look like. And just wanted to get your thoughts on it. I'm just not sure if I should do 20 percent, maybe do 50 percent, take a loan, or if in some places, pay the cash, and just have less in my IRA. That would have to make up, of course. And would love to hear your opinions. Thanks so much, guys. Love the show. All right, Matt in Georgia, just like me. Congrats on being in Money Gear 6. That is awesome. Sounds like you've been dedicated to investing for quite a while now. If you could potentially pay for that house in cash with your IRA, that's seriously impressive. That's very impressive. You might be looking at something cheaper, like something that's more affordable. Maybe you are in a more country or rural part of the state. But with the average price of a home in the US being in the range of like $415,000, that's a pretty killer nest egg. If you've got that much to you, Matt. Yeah, for sure. That's a lot of years of doing the right thing, of maxing it out, and of seeing great gains. Really, a lot of our listeners, Matt, are going to get to those multiple six figure levels just by doing the right thing year after year after year and stocking money and index funds. But the heart of Matt's question comes down to one thing. Is it smart to liquidate your IRA in order to buy a home? And the answer has some nuance, but the TLDR is that if you've owned a home in the past couple of years, you definitely should not use your IRA to make this purchase. That's because there is a first time home buyer exception that allows you to use some of those funds up to $10,000 without paying a 10% early withdrawal penalty if the money you're taking out is used for the first time home purchase that is. You'll still owe taxes, so plan for that. But you will avoid the 10% penalty, which is nice. But that's still a really small chunk of what he's saying. I mean, a really, really small amount. Yeah, it sounds like he's looking at above and beyond that 10,000 pounds most likely. It sounds like, unless he's literally buying a tear down track or something. Right. Yeah. So it's also worth noting that Matt, he didn't say anything about this IRA being a Roth IRA. And this is worth mentioning because if that was the case, well, then he could pull any and all of his contributions to the Roth without having to pay a penalty or any taxes. There's no taxes because Roths are funded with post tax dollars. You've already paid taxes on that money. And this flexibility, it's one of the massive benefits of going with a Roth over a traditional IRA, because you can withdraw those contributions for any reason. But then on top of that, you still have that first time home buyer exception as well. So it's kind of, there's a double benefit for first time home buyers if you have a Roth as opposed to a traditional IRA. Yes. But that still begs the question, should you take advantage of this loophole, this perk as some might think of it? Yeah. So we've identified the perk. It's there. Should you use it? Right. And probably not is the answer. I mean, Matt has, he's got a lot of money in his IRA. So he shouldn't feel bad about using $10,000 of it for this purpose of buying a home. If it helps him, get to the place where, you know, he feels like he has enough to put down, especially if it gets him to like that 20% down mark that we talked about earlier. Most folks should avoid it all together, right? Using more than the allotted $10,000 of those IRA funds, it would be a bad financial move, given the taxes and penalties you'd over cashing out early, especially if it's a traditional IRA, right? But even if it's a Roth, it's not necessarily a good idea to take money out of that either, to withdraw most of those contributions you've been putting in over the years. So the best thing to do if you've been a great investor and now buying a home as your next goal is to build up more liquid savings if you get that new place, right? Leaving your IRA fully or at least mostly intact. Yeah. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but Matt sounds pretty young. And if he has been able to suck away that much money towards retirement, I think that he would then be able to shift gears and turn his laser-like focus onto saving up a down payment. For sure. Pretty quickly. Even if that means, by the way, cutting back a little bit on contributions to retirement accounts now, that's okay, because he's already done a great job at that. And if the home is his next goal, that's fine. Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's the other downside of using some most or even all of your IRA to buy a house is that you won't have much money if any leftover in your retirement nest egg, unless you have a sizable 401k or something that you didn't mention. If that's the case, and I don't know, maybe he's got additional funds for actual retirement, but with interest rates having gone up quite a bit, like I get the increased desire to avoid getting a mortgage, right? To avoid a home loan altogether. But it's likely going to be a better path to take than using money that's earmarked for your future in order to make this happen. And with the limited annual contribution amounts that you're able to fund your retirement accounts with, you can get that money back into your IRA. It's not like you can say, all right, once I get that house, I'm going to go gangbusters on those tax-advantaged retirement accounts. Can't put the genie back in the bottom. You're not going to be able to do that, and so keeping your IRA intact, saving up for that down payment within a high yield savings account. Again, even if it does mean reducing your current contributions towards retirement savings, I think that makes the most sense. Protect your retirement. Don't actually touch your retirement accounts. Yep, don't mess with the IRA in order to do that. And by the way, there is something known as a self-directed IRA, which allows you to invest in real estate or even other things like private companies through with your IRA money. And if you did this, your money would still be inside of your IRA, just buying that asset. But the rules are complex. It's not advisable in our opinion. And by the way, you can't even buy personal real estate either. But I just wanted to mention it because you might hear someone say, well, why don't you use it inside of a self-directed IRA? And the truth is, you wouldn't qualify buying a personal residence doing that. But I'm not a fan of the self-directed IRA path. Anyway, rather see you stick with the boring traditional index funds inside of your IRA. But it's something you might hear inklings about. And I don't think that's for you either. That's right. But Matt, we hope that that gets you pointed in the right direction. We hope that you are, again, that it sounds like you have a laser-like focus. And I think if you are able to direct that death ray onto a massing a down payment that you will be fully funded, you will have that 20% down before you even realize it, but a best luck to you. That mortgage might not be around long either once you buy the house. Exactly, exactly. All right, let's get back to the beer, Joel, that you and I enjoyed during this episode. I will give it a shot. This was a Kanazawa Hayakumengoku Pale Ale. You did better than I did. But again, once you hear somebody stumble through it, you're able to pick up the pieces. And this is by Wakuwaku Tezakuri Farm Kawakita. This is a beer from Julia. The last of the three beers that she sent our way there from Japan. Joel, what were your thoughts on this one? This was super floral, super botanical. Tasted like the pictures I've seen of Japan and the cherry blossoms when they're full bloom. This beer tasted like that. Like you're sitting lakeside gazing upon Mt. Fuji. Exactly. Exactly. You know, like it do. And we don't have like very, we don't get to drink many super botanical beers. So this one was like really, really fun. I enjoyed it. Yeah, to me, this one tasted the most familiar. Like in my mind, it tasted the most like beers we've had stateside, whereas like the IPA and then the first one that we had tasted like they ever from a different country. I feel like this one was like, oh, okay, this tastes more like maybe an American, a floral botanically American pale. But definitely glad we got to enjoy it. Oh, I actually, so I was trying to figure out the name because obviously it's all written in Japanese on the label. I came across this brewery's website. They grow all of their moths locally. So when it says whatever farm, it's because literally they're not getting their grains shipped in. Or anything like that too. So it's like a, this is a farm to table, farm to pint glass kind of beer in here. Very cool. We can enjoy. I can dig that. I think Rogue out in Oregon. Does something similar? Yeah. Yeah, so I loved their beers back in the day. But I haven't had one in a minute. So I need to get some rogue beers on the show. Some old dead guy ale. That's right. It's been a minute. And by the way, the hazelnut brown. Oh, yeah. Browns were, browns were a nice introduction to some of the different craft beers out there. All right. That's going to do it for this episode. Again, we're going to take more of your listener questions on upcoming episodes. We're going to be taking them every week moving forward. So submit away. We'd love to hear yours. Go to howdomoney.com slash ask for the instructions. So that you can record that voice memo. Get a cent over to us so that we can take it. Soon we need your questions. And we look forward to hearing them. That's right. The weirder, the better. We will link to any resources that we mentioned during this episode up on the show notes at howdomoney.com. But buddy, that's going to be it for this one. Until next time. Best friends out. A new podcast from the creators of Up and Vanished. Lewisville police are searching for a missing 24-year-old woman. When I read about Alana Chen's disappearance, I couldn't look away. A shy girl from Boulder. Who wanted to be a nun since she was a teenager. So Alana was like sneaking out to go to church. But she kept a secret. One that was slowly tearing her apart. I didn't know she was attracted to girls. Nope, she didn't tell me. Yes, some other says her daughter first opened up to a priest at her church when she was just 14 years old. However, the church denies any conversion therapy was done. She didn't tell me. I told him. She confessed to him. From Tenderfoot TV comes a new podcast about the price we paid of along and the systems that pay no price at all. This is Dear Alana. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app or Apple Podcasts. For an exclusive binge of the whole season, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus.com. I'm Entertainment and Lifestyle Reporter Tommy Diderio. On my new show, I've never said this before. I'll be talking to different artists and the stars of your favorite movies and shows and getting the full story. And of course, as the title suggests, I'll also be asking all of my guests to tell me at least one thing that they've never said before. Listen to, I've never said this before. With Tommy Diderio on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm weird, you're weird. We're all weird about money. I'm Paco Delio. I'd like to proudly present to you a brand new podcast called Weird Finance. A show to help us all feel a little less weird about money, one conversation at a time. So if you want to feel a little less weird about money, and you also want to hear people have honest and real conversations, tune in to Weird Finance. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get podcasts.