Ask HTM - Renovating While Paying Off Student Loans, 529 Strategy For Immediate Use, & Popular Banks Get Downgraded #718

I'm the Wizard of Oz, I'm the one making everything happen. Real Housewife of Salt Lake City Star, Jen Shaw, is running the scam of the century. I remember one time, Stuart lost like about 8 million. Jen was very upset and she came down to the office late at night with Coach yelling at him, asking him where their money is. Listen to Queen of the Con, season 4, The Unreal Housewife. On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On his new podcast, Six Degrees with Kevin Bacon, join Kevin for inspiring conversations with his friends and fellow celebrities who are working to make a difference in the world, like actor Matthew McConaughey. You know, I found myself moving up state in the middle of this fracking fight, you know, that I'm trying to raise kids there and, you know, my neighbors like willing to poison my water. Listen to Six Degrees with Kevin Bacon on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marissa Thalberg. And I'm Stephen Wolf Fadada. Come join us for our podcast brand new. So what's really new about brand new? Well, Stephen and I are not only longtime C-suite executives, we're friends. Because of that, we've got a lot to say about tech entertainment, advertising, media, and marketing, what we call teen. It's real talk from the inside, personal talk too, and it's meant for everyone rising in business or just interested in it. Just look for the brand new podcast wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation you won't want to miss. Welcome to How To Money, I'm Joel. I'm Matt and today we're answering your listener questions. That's right, we've got a listener question episode lined up for you on this beautiful Monday. And we've got five, like always, we've got five listener questions to get to. Could be terrible weather, by the way, where our listeners are Matt. You have no idea. That is true. It's nice here. It is beautiful here, though. So a little hot still. It's a little warm. She's got student loans and she's trying to figure out how much money to keep on hand, how much liquidity while also paying down those student loans. We'll get to her question. We're going to cover a 529 strategy for adults, for adult learners. All adults should be learners. But if you're looking to go back to school and we're going to talk about that, lifelong learning is important. And another listener, he's worried about the, he's wondering maybe if he should be worried about some of the bank downgrades that have been making their way through the news. We'll get to those three questions. Bless a couple others for sure. For today's episode. All right, I look forward to it, but before we get to that, Matt, I wanted to ask you kind of a frugal or cheap. I've got a couple pairs of headphones as a dude who listens to a lot of tunes, who listens to podcasts, but who also creates audio for a living. I wear headphones a lot of the day. And over time, those headphones, they wear out, right? But one, I actually have two pairs that this is happening to right now. The ear muff thingies that go on the outside are like the, they're basically disintegrating. I'm pretty sure that's the technical term for a muff. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, they're not your most, they're the pads, right? They go, yeah, they go. The cushion that creates the nice seal. Yes, but these pads are wearing out. They're molding, whatever. And actually, I feel like a little flex of black all over me from these pads. I often look over at you and you've got something black on your face. I know. Like, right there, buddy. So is it frugal or cheap that I'm replacing the pads? Not the headphones. It is the earth-conscious thing, it's the green thing to do, most likely, because I'm sure that you could just easily toss those and buy a pair for like another cheap pair for like $10. They're not super cheap headphones. They're probably like $55, $60. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, do you watch the all the slick deals and all that? Because let me honest, you could get a $50 pair for $10. When you're wearing headphones all day every day, you don't want the $10 pair. Well, so there's a difference in like ergonomics and sound quality. Well, that's why I don't like the over-the-ear because it presses on, I think it has to do with the fact that I wear glasses. And so I've got glasses and when you do the over-the-ear, even though they're not really supposed to push on your ear, they still push on your ear a little bit. And you've got glasses, it smushes your ear up against your head, and it sandwiches the acetate, the arm of the glasses there, and it hurts. That's why I like the in-ear buds. Even while I'm sitting here at the desk, I don't like doing plug-in. I like to do the bleach. I think we can both agree that the worst of both worlds is the on-ear headphones. Yep, only psychos wear those. My parents included. I don't know why. It's like showing me the headphones. I'm like, who would get these? They're the default cheap headphones. They look like they're the nicer ones, but in reality, they just... I don't think they don't quite cut it. All right, so I think I paid like $8 or $9 for a placement for the muffs. On like a $50, $60 pair of headphones, yeah. All right. Well, if that's the case, and I think you probably made the right move, I was thinking those were like a $10 just a cheap pair, but I just rocked my beats. Yeah, there you go. If I see a great sale at some point, maybe I'll upgrade, but these things, they're still working. They're just, I don't want all the molting, you know, the plastic-y stuff all over again. You don't want. Extinct dinosaur particles on you, you know. Right. Petroleum. That's where plastic comes from. Yeah. Let's introduce the beer. That we're going to enjoy today. So this is a beer. This is a collaboration actually between burial and the eighth state, which is a brewery in Greenville, South Carolina. This beer is called. These are depictions of yet another revolutionary absence. This is an imperial stout. We were just joking about how you shouldn't drink big stouts in the summer. In the summer heat. And here we go. So this is what we're going to enjoy today. We'll share our thoughts at the end of the episode. Yeah. And you always have to laugh at any burial naming convention, because they're all ridiculous and over the top. And the eighth state evidently allows it. But like, fine, you guys want to name it. You're ridiculous name. You guys do your thing. All right. But we take listener questions every single week now on the show. And we would love to take yours. So if you have a money question, please feel free to reach out. You can submit yours at howtomoney.com slash ask or simple instructions. It's really just recording a quick voice memo into your phone and emailing it our way. But yeah, hopefully we can take yours next Monday. All right. But let's get to our first question for this episode. This one is from a listener who's got a bunch of young kids and has multiple money goals. Hey, Matt and Joel. I'm Rachel from Crystal Lake, a suburb of Chicago. You don't know this, but you come with me on several walks. And I love it. Thank you so much. I'm a consultant with variable income and my husband is in sales. Together, we bring in approximately 200K a year. We have three kids, ages five and under, and oh, here are the expensive. Together, we have about 100K in student loans with interest rates that vary from five to 7.25%. We've maxed out contribution for my husband's work. And I save a minimum of 2K a month that doesn't go to taxes. Combined, we have about 216K left on a mortgage with a rate under 4.5%, on which we make $200 principal payments extra per month. At present, we have 40K all together in the various CDs and high yield savings accounts. Keeping money aside, I'll need to pay taxes. Should I pay off the student loans first, keeping a certain percentage above the emergency fund as liquid, pay less, and have more liquid, and how do we decide how much to put into home upgrades with excellent ROI? I've paid off the only car we have this year, and we don't have any credit cards that have a balance with interest applied. Thank you so much for your insight and your help. You guys rock. All right, Rachel. So going back to what you were saying there at the beginning, we are happy to hear that we are your walking buddies. It's like the two buds that get to walk along with you and you don't even have to schedule and figure out where it is that you're going to meet up or where you're going to reconnoiter. You don't need to meet up with somebody. But yeah, we love that. Thank you for bringing us along. And also, another note too. Man, kids, it is true. They are expensive. They're not quite as expensive as some of the different headlines out there would lead you to believe. I think is it in like $750,000? I think it's like $308,000. Oh, is it? Something like that was the last I heard. I thought it was a lot more. It used to be in the upper twos. Now it's over 20 years. No, that's a lot of money. Over 20 years. Yeah, it's still a lot of money. But I think for some people that can scare you off and be like, I thought I was going to have kids but not if it costs that much. There's a lot of ways to make sure that your kids don't cost quite that only cost 300. Man, I'm going to have like five more kids. Right. It gets overwhelming now. And yeah, I'd realize like, yeah, it's not easy. But of course, it is worth it even though it's costly, right? But Matt, let's talk about kind of get to Rachel's question. There's kind of a lot going on in this one. So we'll try to get to a bunch of the points or the questions that you had. And it sounds like y'all are doing really well from an income standpoint, which is great. And on top of that, you're saving and investing in a solid clip. You don't have any debts that are out of control. And you've got that paid off car. That's something we dig. Like we don't like hard debt. That's one of our least favorite things. And I think she said that they paid off the only car that they have, which makes it sound like that there are one car thing that they're rocking that with three kids. That is awesome. Hang on to that as long as you can. Yeah, the longer you can stick with that. I'm like, salivating this beer so good. I just like a sip. But it's just easier than I think. A lot of people, like in their minds are like, oh, we've got, okay, we've got kids now. We definitely have to be the two car family thing. But with so many people working remotely and the ability, it takes a little more work to schedule. But the ability to bike, I literally, I mean, I bike my dude to preschool this morning on the cargo bike. I'm gonna, and with ride sharing too, we're gonna, we gotta take the van in to get some repair work done later this week. Gonna take it there. And then I'm gonna Uber home, because guess what? All right, 15, 20 bucks with tip. And all of a sudden, that means I don't need that second car. Yeah, it's definitely a line item in the budget that more and more people can and should question, especially, especially given how many more people are working hybrid or fully remote these days. On the student loan front, by the way, whether or not it's a priority to pay off those, that student loan debt, it depends largely on this new save plan, right? Which is changing the game for anybody who has outstanding student loan debt. It's, this save plan is likely going to change your payment amount, or it is for a whole lot of people. And there's this helpful calculator on student loan planner that we'll link to in the show notes. But if this new save plan is gonna reduce your payment substantially, and your balance still won't be growing, which is part of the benefit of this new save plan, your student loans likely shouldn't be a top priority. The biggest benefits come to low and middle class income earners though, which isn't you guys Rachel. It sounds like you guys are making more than that. And you have three kids though, so so much depends on the specifics of what sort of subsidy you're gonna qualify for under the new save guidelines. How long have you been paying on those student loans, right? How much? There's a lot of different factors. Balance is left. And so, yeah, take that into consideration. Plug your numbers into that calculator and kind of see, well, oh, looks like my payment's not gonna be changed. If that's the case, then that higher rate student loan debt is probably a bigger priority for you than it is for other people. Sure, yeah, yeah, normally this would be honestly just a really tough one, right? So she specifically said that her student loan interest rates are a little bit, I don't know if they're a little bit higher relative to most other folks, but they're on the line, right? So typically any loans that are higher than 7%, like I would want those gone if that was me. And anything lower than 7%, like in my mind, that wouldn't be the worst debt in the world to keep around if you have other goals, if you are investing solidly. But if your payments, Rachel, if they get reduced with this new safe plan, and, you know, like let's say you hit that max 20 or 25 years of repayments, and then you end up coming out ahead, then I see no reason to pay down on them early, even though that might be your natural tendency, especially, I mean, she mentioned her mortgage, making additional payments to that. I get the impression that they don't like having debt around and that's something that they might want to eliminate. Which, let's be honest, is a really good way to think about that, but at the same time, when you have low interest rate debt, and savings rates are higher, and other financial goals. There's other things you can do. You've got to moderate maybe your approach to debt and investing. Exactly. So with that forgiveness of mine, and after you crunch your own numbers, if it's likely that this new plan could basically tip those higher student loans, especially the ones that are around 7 and a quarter, to a lower effective rate, essentially, at the end of the day, then it certainly makes even more sense to not prioritize paying down the student loans. Yeah, and at the heart of Rachel's question, it comes down to liquidity. Which is such an important question, Matt, for people, because having more cash on hand gives you options, gives you flexibility, and can give you peace of mind. And fortunately, you're not hammered as hard now, having money and savings as you were just a few years ago. And so how much money do you keep on hand, Rachel? That's a good question. And it seems like we're not prioritizing student loans, which because of this new save plan, they're not as high of a priority as they would have been in years past, but it often comes down to what you're gonna do with the money instead. That is really the crux of everything. Like, what are your alternative options? Because if you're just gonna blow that money, which I don't think you are, it doesn't sound like you're that kind of person who's like gonna go on a shop-of-control. Yeah, shopping's pretty with it. Like, you just wanna know the best place to funnel it. Well, if you were gonna spend it in a silly way, it would make sense to go ahead and be done with those student loans as opposed to buying more stuff. But you're already investing. It sounds like you're maxing out your husband's 401k at work. It might make sense to go ahead and at least open up Roth IRAs, though, for the both of you. Yeah. Maybe max those out to the total of 13 grand a year for both of you. And if you did that, if you got the money invested, I think Matt, you and I would both feel better about them missing out on the guaranteed return on their money by paying off the student loans because they're putting it in a tax advantage account to grow and compound for their future. Sure. Yeah, if you wanted to do it by the book, you would say the equivalent amount that you have outstanding on your student loans, invest that money. So once you have that much additional money set aside and is either invested or even in a savings account where you're earning a higher rate. But again, knowing that when you do invest that money is gonna compound, it kinda makes sense that it doesn't need to be dollar for dollar per say. I think if it was me, I would not only use some of her additional money to make sure that they've maxed out the Roth IRAs for this year, but also set aside money for next year, that way you have that money ready to, like it's sitting there on the sidelines ready to go, January 1st hits, you're able to lump some invest. And next year, it's $14,000 because they're upping the contribution limits from 65 to 7,000, which is we love to see, which is awesome. And so if I were in your shoes, and I was able to max out not only this year, but also next year's, I think I would feel much, much more comfortable about saying, okay, let's just see kinda how this plays out with the student loans. We don't necessarily need to pay this off ahead of time. But let's also get to home renovations, Rachel, because first of all, it sounds like you've got the ability to use that additional $2,000 a month that you're setting aside. And you've got the potential just a straight up pay cash for in your projects that you've gotten mine, which is awesome. Not to mention the 200 bucks a month, they're pre-paying towards the mortgage, like funnel that back into home rental projects. There you go, $2,200. And this is gonna be way better than taking out a HELOC at today's rates. But then you asked about how much to put towards renovating. And this is gonna have to be a judgment call on your part. You and your husband, you all need to talk about this. You'll need to think through what aspects of your home that you'd like to change the most. And what'll honestly have the most impact for y'all as a family, like with something as simple as adding some cubbies in a mudroom with that drastically improve the quality of life there. That's literally something that Kate and I did when we moved into our house last summer. Did not cost a lot of money, but it subs, I mean, I don't know what we would do with all the shoes, the backpacks, the jackets in the winter, the bicycle helmets, just adding these cubbies where each person, we got six of them there, where they have their own space, dramatically increase the usability of our little entryway there. But with her, maybe like she's got three kids. So maybe she's realizing that what they need is another bathroom or something, right? But weigh those needs while at the same time, keeping in mind that you may not be in this house forever. And so you don't want to necessarily overbuild your street or your neighborhood. It's difficult, because on one hand, you want to keep that in mind, but you also don't want to make these improvements with return on investment as the only consideration because I think the last I read, a new garage door is actually what ranks the highest as far as what improves the resale. And you just never know with who it is that's gonna buy your house, whether or not they're gonna value the improvements that you made. And so what I would say is make sure that you're adding utility for the way it is that you and your family live there without getting crazy with it. But instead of ROI, make it ROU, return on of utility or something like that. Think, have that be the filter to which you think through some of these improvements. And so much of it comes down to how long you think you're going to be in the house. If you're like, hey, listen, we're on two acres out here. And this is the perfect spot for our family. It's just the house that's insufficient. And so if we do this, this and this, then hey, we're gonna be here for the next 30. And granted, I think some people think that and maybe that doesn't end up being the case. But if you think you're gonna be there long-term, it makes even more sense to funnel money into the house and make it the way you want it to be, but as opposed to thinking about pure resale value because if you're only gonna be there for a year or two, and you're gonna just need like bigger bones, essentially at some point, you need a bigger or better house, something like that, then you probably don't wanna sink too much in. You wanna be saving up for the next time payments. Yeah, that's when you go to IKEA and just get yourself some organization pieces, the temporary fix. Yes. The bandaid, which is very much the temporary fix. Right. Actually, scratch that, scratch IKEA. Instead, go to your local Salvation Army or Goodwill and find you a quality piece of furniture that might also solve some organizational needs if that's what you get going on. It's even better. Yeah. And I think the period of your life with your own kids, it can be financially daunting. It feels like you're trying to do a bunch of different things at once. Three kids under the age of five, that's about as tough as it gets from a financial and a mental perspective. It can be very trying. Child care is expensive. If you, depending on whether or not you have help or something from family members, you're trying to excel in your career, you're trying to save for retirement, you're trying to buy or fix up a house, it feels like a lot. And Matt, you and I, we know that feeling very well, because we're not too far away from those years. Our youngest boys, they're still three. And so, and our oldest are 10 now. So we still know, we still remember, it's a fresh experience that you're trying to do all those things at once. So just make sure you keep chipping away, know that those goals don't happen overnight, make little adjustments here and there, and then celebrate the wins and successes along the way, because it's just so easy to fixate on the future, and think about the easier years that are coming down the pike. But enjoy these too, because they really are special times, even though you're pretty worn out at the end of the day. That's right. So Rachel, best of luck to you, and I look forward to our walks together. That's as we continue to talk about our finance. The walks, we don't even know we're taking. We take walks around here, but we just, yeah. Rachel needs to record a podcast and send it our way, that way, it's like a pinpal. That'd be beautiful, relationship. But we've got four more questions to get to, including one from a divorcee, whether or not she's on the right track, we'll hear from her, plus others, right after this. On his new podcast, Six Degrees with Kevin Bacon, join Kevin for inspiring conversations with celebrities who are working to make a difference in the world, like musical artist, jewel. And what an equal opportunist misery is, it doesn't care if you're black or white, or rich or poor or famous or homeless. If you are raised in misery systems, it's perpetual. Kevin is the founder of the nonprofit organization, SixDegrees.org. Now he's meeting with like-minded actors who share a passion for change, like Mark Ruffalo. They're all in the wrong track, helping you down the right track. If they're on the right track, let's help them double down on that and see the opportunities stay on the right track for success in the future. These conversations between Kevin and activist Matthew McConaughey will have you ready to lean in, learn, and inspire to act. You know, I found myself moving up state in the middle of this fracking fight that I'm trying to raise kids there, and my neighbors like willing to poison my water. Listen to SixDegrees with Kevin Bacon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm the Wizard of Oz. I'm the one making everything happen. Real housewife of Salt Lake City Star, Jen Shaw, is running the scam of the century. We probably will never be able to be retired while working to work anymore. Living a fat million dollar lifestyle on the backs of thousands of elderly victims. She turned up their lives for what, a fake Fendi bag, Congrats Girl. When you have her confronted, and instead of stopping, she finds ways to be sneaky or about it and keeps going. I remember one time, Stuart lost like about eight million, and Jen was very upset and she came down to the office late at night with Coach, yelling at him, asking him where their money is. Would you call her a con artist? I would just call her a con. She's not very much of an artist. Listen to Queen of the Con, season four, the Unreal Housewife, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marissa Fallberg. And I'm Steven Wolfbeta. We want to invite you to join us for a new podcast for Ann knew. So what's actually new about brand new? Well, Steven and I are not only working C-suite executives, we're friends. My friend Marissa is actually one of the most influential chief marketing officers in the world. And hey, Steven has a story career across finance, tech, and multicultural entertainment. Because of that, we've got a lot to say about the world of tech, entertainment, advertising, media, and marketing, what we effectively call team. We always adore each other, but don't always agree with each other, and that's part of the fun. It's real talk from the inside, sometimes personal talk too, and it's meant for everyone, rising in business, or just interested in it. In each episode, we give our hot takes on hot topics, and always answer what's on your minds, too. Just look for the brand new podcast on the iHeart Podcast Network, or wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation that you won't want to miss. All right, we're back. We've got more money questions to get to from Awesome How To Money Listers. And Matt, this next question is specifically about one of our favorite retirement accounts that not enough people know about. Hi, Matt and Joel. This is Ashis from Atlanta. Thank you for all you do, and the wealth of information that you provide. Today I had a quick question about it's a say accounts, particularly with regards to reimbursement later in life, potentially decades down the road. How did it work in case of family members? For example, if I pay for medical expense for my kids now, and I want to get reimbursed for that 34 years down the road, would I be able to withdraw that fund and use it for myself? And also, how does it work in the case of spouse if expense currently occurs for one spouse can the partner withdraw a reimbursement that amount for his or her use or medical expense later down the road? Well, just curious, thank you so much. Oh, so Ashish is from Atlanta. I don't think we get enough Atlanta listener questions sent in, which Ashish. So we're actually going to, should we talk about this here? We're going to have the listener beer hang here next week, not this Friday, but the next Friday after that September 15th. It took a lot of coaxing to get Matt out of his hobbit hole. Do we want to go ahead and share? So go ahead and pencil that on the counter because we talked about maybe doing it around five, should we go ahead and nail it down? Think four to eight at inner voice brewing indicator. Indicator, yeah. So they've got awesome pizza there. We'll make more official announcements in the future, but Ashish, this is like the little insider heads up for you, as well as any others who might be listening at this point, who are from Atlanta. That's a great pizza, and that is true. But inner voice has great beers here. It's so good. So literally we're going there because you and I, which was a location because were the ones that got to organize it. But we haven't been to inner voice, and we've had their beers before. They're so good, and the pizza, it's glide pizza, right? Like so this is a pizzeria that our families used to frequent when we lived in town, and they opened the second location out there indicator. I can't stink in white. It's going to be a ton of fun. So if you are in Atlanta or the surrounding Atlanta area, mark that on your calendar, September 15th. Yeah, hope to see you out there. We don't do this enough. It's always fun to meet listeners in person, not just go on walks with them virtually when doing it in real life. We're not actually there. So we like that too. And at first I just want to let everyone know like why Ashish is asking this. And the reason is because the HSA is actually one of the best accounts to save for retirement, and that's how he's trying to use it. Like we've talked about this. We've done whole episodes on this. We have articles up on the site about this. But almost nobody knows, sadly, that the HSA is one of the best ways is one of the best accounts with which to save for their future. And a lot of people treat their HSA as a way to save a little bit on taxes to pay for current health care expenses. But that's not the best way to go about it if you're thinking long term. Because you can turn your HSA into a triple or even a quadruple taxed-of-painter's account that can grow for years and decades that can compound for a long time if you do it right. And that's the way Ashish is treating it, which I'm just going to say mad props. In part of what it takes to get maximum value is to pay for all of your health care expenses out of pocket so that you can allow for that tax sheltered money to keep on growing and compounding. That makes me think of Charlie Mungers quote on compounding, which is like the number one or the first rule when it comes to compounding, is to never interrupt it unnecessarily, which is it's okay to touch when you need to tap it. But you gotta let that thing go. And that's what we want you to also do here when it comes to your HSA. But on top of that though, you'll want to have records for every health expense that you incur, which is going to help you when it comes time to withdraw those funds. I have never had an HSA, so I've never been able to do this, but you better believe if I hadn't a high deductible plan, I would also have an HSA. And you better believe I would have an Excel sheet or a Google sheet with the date, the description, of course the price, but also make sure that you're either taking a screenshot of those expenses or you're taking a picture of the receipt to actually have the receipt in case the IRS wants to have proof of that as well. To keep it organized, upload it to a folder, maybe the HSA folder labeled by year perhaps. I don't know, come up with your own system, but you gotta say organize. That's key to making the HSA work as a retirement account. Yeah, Matt, have you ever heard of hyper thymesia? No. Okay, so this is when you remember everything, and apparently it's a real problem, like I said. I always like to talk about it as an amnesia. Right, yeah, okay, where you remember nothing. Which is more akin to what I have. I don't remember things very well. It just has my wife. But hyper thymesia is apparently when you remember everything, I don't think a sheet has this, and so because of that, he needs to retain the documents. And even if you remembered it, he wouldn't be able to prove it to the IRS, so you gotta keep the record. He's like, it's up here and the right, no, that doesn't count. Right. Yeah, we can't tap that and get the files out of your brain. But the heart of a sheet's question is about whether or not his family members and their medical needs qualify to make that document. So if let's say one of his kiddos goes to the ER with this or that injury, God forbid, and you, you know, you get a big medical bill, does that count towards the HSA money you've set aside? The answer is yes, right? Your HSA funds can be used to pay for out-of-pocket qualified medical expenses incurred by your family members who qualify as dependents on your taxes. The same is true of your spouse, right? If they're listed on your tax return, if you're filing jointly, then for that year, yeah, their expenses are also eligible. And so that's true whether you have the individual or the family coverage with an HSA through your plan. That's right, and your kids are actually included as long as they are dependents, and that goes up, so if your kids are students, a lot of kids go off to college, and so they qualify up through age 23 as well. So that's good to know when they go off to college, and if you're like me and you end up in the ER because you ate some leftovers that were left out on the counter, and you end up with, you think you're gonna die, and it turns out you've got food poisoning and you're laid up in bed for multiple days. Why does that not surprise me? Learn my lesson. I'm willing to eat my own leftovers that were I know that they weren't necessarily left in a car for two days. Oh, the things we did in college, I mean you. I can laugh now, but dude, at the time, I literally thought I was dying. I didn't know what was going on. And I'm sure your parents were like, we wish you would, we're so mad at him right now. I think I barely had a cell phone at that point. So I think they knew, but this is back in the old, it's not the 80s. It makes me think of the Bluey episode. It was the 80s. It wasn't at all the 80s, that's when I was born. But technology wasn't what it was while back when we were in college. Tester. We still remember Pagers. And AOL is to messenger. But by the way, back to your question Ashish. It's also important to mention that HSA funds that they can be used to cover some things that your health insurance policy may not cover. So for instance, your health care plan, it might not cover new glasses or orthodontia when it comes, especially if we're talking about your kids here, which can get crazy expensive, but those count as qualified expenses through your HSA. So if you end up spending $5,000 on braces, make sure to put that in the sheet Excel file as well. But Ashish, man, I love how it is you're thinking about using your HSA. Your long time horizon is amazing here in the fact that you're willing and able to invest HSA dollars for 30 to 40 years. That is impressive. It's gonna offer you so much more future flexibility because you're maximizing all of these retirement accounts that you had at your disposal. Yeah, this is like the textbook way to use an HSA if you have access to one, right? Perfect. It's like max ed joker out, get all those tax benefits, invest it, and then have a lot more money that's tax free to spend later on. But you got a document along the way, right? And so there are a lot of details that you need to know in order to make that HSA work the most effectively for you possible, right? So Ashish, good luck, keep it up, man. And Matt, let's start our next listener question. This one comes from a listener just like really wants to know after going through a really difficult life event, whether she is still on the right track with her money. Hi, my name is Dawn and I'm from Toledo, Ohio. I've listened to your podcast for several months now. I love all of your helpful hints, your explanations of all things financial are so helpful. I am 57 years old. I'm single, live by myself, and rent my home. I have not purchased a home because my job is somewhat transitional, meaning that I am transferred to a different location every two to three years. I bring home about $2,800 a month after taxes, insurance, and money for my 401k are deducted. I also have a side gig making about $300 to $400 a month. I have 5% taken out from my 401k, and my employer matches that 5%. In addition to my 401k and my savings, I will also have a retirement pension from working for the state of Ohio for 27 years. My monthly living expenses are about $1,700. I have an emergency fund of $3,600 in a savings account, and I have $40,000 in a CD. My only debt is a credit card with a balance of $4,000. My questions are, one, I plan to use some of the money in my CD to pay out my $4,000 credit card debt once the CD matures in five months. Instead of waiting, should I deplete my emergency fund in my savings account now to pay most of the credit card debt off, two, should I invest my $40,000 from the CD differently once it matures in November? And if so, what might be some good investment options? I have considered purchasing a short-term rental property, but I'm a little leery of making such a big purchase. And then three, I am recently divorced, and very concerned about doing the right thing with my finances so that I can retire when it comes time without being incapacitated financially. Am I on the right track? Or do you feel that I should be doing things differently? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I love the show. Thanks for the help and take care. All right, glad to have you on board, Don, and great job keeping a nice gap between what it is that you bring in every month and what goes out. You are living frugally. Would you say her monthly living expenses are like $1,700 a month? I don't care where you live. That is incredible given today's the high cost of living today. Yeah, just housing, groceries, transportation, like to keep that all in that space is really impressive. And so housing, so she mentioned not owning a home. Don, don't worry about that because most folks have been brainwashed into thinking that home ownership is the only way to build wealth or the best way, right? The best way and it's not necessarily true. I think it can work as a great forced method of savings, right? Because when you buy a home, that's just something you pay every single month. And so you're kind of automatically, it's, again, it's forced savings, but renters who are diligent investors who are listening to how to money or making the right moves for their money, they can actually come out ahead by not necessarily investing within a primary resident. That's even more true today than it was given where five or 10 years ago. Right, so given where housing prices are? Yeah, absolutely. We've seen massive increases in both the cost of rent and the cost of a home, but less growth in the cost of rent. And so renters are sitting prettier than homeowners or people who want to be homeowners now. And so I just want to mention too, like how great is it to work for an employer who matches dollar for dollar up to five percent? That is pretty great. Not necessarily the norm, but it's pretty sweet. And so that means just by default, by putting in the five, you're getting a 10% total of your salary tossed into a retirement account, which is a really good place to be, right? Especially since you've got that pension to go along with what you've been putting away on your own. In many ways, you're ahead of the game when it comes to retirement savings. So this is a good place to be. It's not that maybe you can't do more down the road, but it's a good place. It's a really good starting position. And let's talk about the credit card debt for a second because you're not alone on that either. About half of Americans have revolving credit card debt to the tune of like over $6,000. Fortunately, you've got less than that. But we would say that this should be a really high priority for you to pay it off. But should you eliminate that small savings nest egg in order to do it, in order to do it right now? We'd say probably not, that's right. Yeah, so if Don, if you look at our money gears, we want folks amassing $2,467 before they start paying off the credit card debt. And the thing is, you have more than that in saving is just not that all of it is liquid. You've got a lot of it, some of it in CDs. But if that were to, like let's just say an emergency comes along. Well, you'd be putting that expense of that emergency right back on your credit card. And so feel free to take whatever you have in excess of that bear bones base emergency fund and pay that to the credit card company. Go ahead and reduce your balance, but don't use all of it because you are, again, you would be in a position to where you have no cash on hand. And on top of that too, she pulls in, I think combined between her main gig as well as her side gig, she's bringing in over $3,000. So something like $1,500 a month because her living expenses are 17, right? So she's got some excess funds on hand. And I think the ability to start paying down that credit card balance, even before the, was it $40,000 that she's got in a slot away in that CD that's going to mature later this year. Don, you have the ability to really start shipping away. And by the time that thing matures, you could be totally free and clear of that credit card just by starting to chip away at it. Now, because you are living so frugally and because you've got that little, you've making that $3,400 on the side, I love that. Because your margin is so substantial, even though you're not making six figures, you're still, you still got a big gap there, which is the key to financial success, right? The bigger the gap, the more, the more moves you can make that are going to benefit your future regardless of how much you make, right? But the credit card that's holding you back, so I agree, Matt, the more she can funnel from that margin, specifically to go towards credit card while retaining that minimum amount in savings so that she has money on hand for an emergency. I think that's okay. And then once that CD matures, there's probably better things to do with that money too. Like you and I, we want all how to money listeners to use credit cards wisely and to avoid revolving credit card debt. That's, of course, that's a wealth destroyer over time. But the truth is there are probably better things that Dawn can do with that additional 40K that she's got in the CD as well. So we should talk about that. And Dawn, first, I just want to say, sorry to hear about your divorce. I mean, we know that that can be tough emotionally and financially, it's got ramifications in basically every realm of your life. But based on what you've told us, I want to tell you, it sounds like you're heading in the right direction. It sounds like you're making the right moves and it sounds like you know what you're doing too, right? And so I would think about like moves you need to make and moves you should be making as more of like tweaks instead of an overhaul. Like when you're going in the right direction and you're going at the right speed, but maybe the breaks are just a little squeaky, right? It's like a tune up. It's a minor adjustment as opposed to making big changes. And so once that CD matures, I would say, keep a decent chunk around as additional savings, kind of like that three to six months where the living expenses that we want people to save up. And then after that, we suggest that you make it a goal to max out your Roth IRA each and every year moving forward since you're over the age of 55. You can contribute $7,500 this year. You can contribute and get that. Those catch up contributions. Yeah, eight grand next year, right? With that increased Roth amount, increased IRA amount. So make it your goal to max that out. That is a great place for that additional savings, which might be too much savings really. When we're talking about it, we probably want more money growing for your future. That's where we'd funnel some of that, that the CD money once it matures. That's right. And Don, you also asked about buying a rental property. It sounds like you move around a lot, right? And so with that in mind, it's probably not an ideal investment for you. And on top of that, we would want you to do a ton of research and some due diligence before you consider going down that path because it's not like an investment per se. It's more like a part-time job. And you've already got a full-time job that's going to have that nice pension and a part-time job in addition. Plus that side gig, exactly. So with all that in mind, I mean, it could be an overwhelming endeavor, but if you are super interested in it, certainly start reading up on it. Just make sure you do a lot of research there, but sticking to tax-advantaged retirement accounts and just funding those like clockwork. And specifically, what would you invest in? I think a target date fund would be smart as you are closer to retirement age. Those funds automatically readjust it and make sure that you are exposed to less volatility that way you're avoiding the sequence of returns risk. That's when were you to retire, you start withdrawing on some of those funds. If there's a big drop in the stock market, that would have a major impact on the amount of money that's left there in your nest egg. And so by switching over to less risky, less volatile investments within that target date fund, that keeps that from happening. So we would recommend that. It allows you to pick a date and you can start working towards that retirement year. But a solid decade of that, plus your pension and plus social security, that's not even something that we even talked about. In addition to a continued frugal lifestyle, I think that's going to easily be able to get you where it is that you want to be. Yeah, and hopefully our comments help you feel good about where you're going. The comments always make me feel good, Joe. Well, thank you. That's the goal, all right. Sorry, I thought you meant, I thought you said compliments. Well, but the one thing we might suggest if you're interested is to talk to a fee only financial advisor. And so you could find one at xy planning network or napf.org, those are two places where you could find somebody who meets kind of the standards for a financial advisor that Matt and I think are important. And if you really wanted someone to kind of like pour over all of your financials at once, it might be worth paying a flat fee to somebody to do that a few hours of their time would likely be enough to kind of go over some of these details and help give you even more reassurance. And maybe some more direction too. But Matt, we got a couple more questions to get to, including whether or not someone going back to school as an adult should be sucking money aside into a 529 account. Isn't that just for kids? Maybe not. We'll get to that and more right after this. I'm the Wizard of Oz. I'm the one making everything happen. Real housewife of Salt Lake City star Jen Shaw is running the scam of the century. We probably will never be able to be retired glad working to network anymore. Living a fat million dollar lifestyle on the backs of thousands of elderly victims. She turned up their lives for what a fake Fendi bag? Congrats, girl. When you have her confronted, and instead of stopping, she finds ways to be sneaky or about it and keeps going. I remember one time, Stuart lost, like, about 8 million. And Jen was very upset and she came down to the office late at night with Coach. Yall is screaming at him, asking him where their money is. Would you call her a con artist? I would just call her a con. She's not very much of an artist. Listen to Queen of the Con season four, the Unreal Housewife, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On his new podcast, six degrees with Kevin Bacon. Join Kevin for inspiring conversations with celebrities who are working to make a difference in the world, like musical artist, Jewel. And what an equal opportunist misery is. It doesn't care if you're black or white or rich or poor or famous or homeless. If you are raised in misery systems, it's perpetual. Kevin is the founder of the nonprofit organization, sixegrees.org. Now he's meeting with like-minded actors who share a passion for change, like Mark Ruffalo. They're all on the wrong track helping you down the right track. If you're on the right track, let's help them double down on that and see the opportunities stay on the right track for success in the future. These conversations between Kevin and activist Matthew McConaughey will have you ready to lean in, learn, and inspire to act. You know, I found myself moving up state in the middle of this fracking fight and I'm trying to raise kids there and my neighbors, like willing to poison my water. Listen to sixegrees with Kevin Bacon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marissa Fallberg. And I'm Steven Wolfed Ada. And we want to invite you to join us for a new podcast for Ann knew. So what's actually new about brand new? Well, Steven and I are not only working C-suite executives, we're friends. My friend Marissa is actually one of the most influential chief marketing officers in the world. And hey, Steven has a story career across finance, tech, and multicultural entertainment. Because of that, we've got a lot to say about the world of tech, entertainment, advertising, media, and marketing, what we effectively call team. We always adore each other, but don't always agree with each other. And that's part of the fun. It's real talk from the inside, sometimes personal talk too. And it's meant for everyone, rising in business, or just interested in it. In each episode, we give our hot takes on hot topics, and always answer what's on your minds too. Just look for the brand new podcast on the iHeart Podcast Network, or wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation that you won't want to miss. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Joel, everyone knows that tricks are for kids. Silly rabbit. That's what you're coming about, 529s, before the break, maybe think of. Do you remember this commercial? Of course. Yeah, classic. We will get to that question about 529s here in a second, but first, let's hear a question about the main bank that I actually use me personally. Hey, Joel and Matt, this is Massa from Boston again. Recently, I read that the Financial Rating Agency Moody's gave Ally Financial a negative outlook. In past episodes, you'll have sung the praises of Ally Bank. I have a couple of questions. Is the Ally Financial that Moody's gave a negative outlook to the same Ally Bank that you really like for personal banking? And if so, should I be concerned that, even if my deposits are wholly insured by the FDIC, because I have less than a quarter million dollars with them, if Ally Bank goes under, I may have difficulty getting my money back out. Thanks again for all you do to educate and inform us. Oh, and confession time. I first learned about credit ratings for companies by selling bonds in the video game Railroad Tycoon 3. Okay, man, that's kind of cool. It made me, I think, actually was talking to somebody that I know recently, and he was saying that he plays the Nintendo game Animal Crossing. Have you heard of it? Maybe. Okay, I have not. I've never played it. I haven't played video games in like 10 years. Plus, it sounds like a video game to me. Yeah, it does. But he was saying, man, there's so many personal finance tidbits as he's been listening to the show. He's like, I've been learning, but I'm also kind of putting it into action in the video game that I'm playing. And I think that's kind of cool. The video games can connect real life truths. To the stuff we're playing. I was playing stupid stuff like Halo and NBA Jam, but it's like, it's cool to see that some games are actually kind of helping teachers. And I feel like the Nintendo in particular doesn't. Well, it doesn't Halo. There's some sort of market capacity, right? Like, don't you have a limited amount of money to death? I don't remember the other stuff, but... Well, if that's the case, yeah, video games in some cases don't do as good of it. Like, that's why we love nerdy board games because oftentimes they mirror real life when you're presented with a limited resource and you have to find a way and make the best of those limited resources. That is life. At least ancient real life, you know? Like Wheaton, Tobacco. Right. Well, that's Puerto Rico. We're sorry. There we haven't played that one in a while. But even like, some video games do, that like makes me think of the classics like Zelda. You are gathering resources and you have to, you know, you go into the shop, you got the three things that you can buy and you got to decide, which one am I going to buy the bomb? Am I going to buy the red candle or a grade of the blue candle? You know, you've got all these things that you've got to make decisions on. So it's not just nerdy board games. Yeah, you can actually learn from video games which I appreciate. I agree, especially since, you know, we're not learning about this stuff in school really. So at least if the video games have an educational element to it, I'm all for it. But that's, thanks for sharing that, Masa. And let's get to the part of Masa's question about bank downgrades. I'm sure Matt, some listeners have seen these headlines and maybe they're either worried that they feel like they've got a change bank stat, something like that. And we talked about the recent downgrade, credit downgrade to our country and what we think that means. That's right. Well, you know, not just a bank, the U.S. of bank. Yes. Got downgraded. Literally the country we live in got downgraded from a credit standpoint. And Moody's, they actually recently downgraded 10 banks and they gave negative outlooks to others, ally being one of them. And then Fitch, the agency who did give our country credit rating downgrade, they said that they're likely to downgrade dozens of banks too. And so part of that's because of multiple bank collapses that have happened throughout 2023. It has folks on edge when it comes to where they're putting their savings. That's a little nervous. Yeah. And a lot of individuals have moved their deposits, not to better banks, but to the biggest banks, believing that that's a safer place for them to be. We want to reiterate, as always, that is not necessarily the case. The truth is the big banks offer much worse service alongside higher fees and non-existent interest rates on your savings. So no, the big banks are not safer and, and they're worse on basically. They're actually worse for not to mention all the shenanigans that, like Wells Fargo, Bank of America, which is a kind way of putting it, just more like fraud. Right, yeah. She made their customers out of actual dollars. Like someone murder someone and you're like, yeah, he's just not nice. And you're like, wait a second, no. That was a mean thing to do. It's much worse than that. But that doesn't mean, of course, that you've got to go bank with ally like I do because there are other great online banks. So should you switch to one of those? Should you completely ditch ally? Well, that's not necessarily the case either. I still think ally is a great choice when all this news hit. Like I literally didn't think twice about what this meant for all the savings. I mean, literally my emergency fund is sitting there in ally and I am not concerned about it at all. Is that just because you're a homer though? Uh, maybe. But so I will say if I was choosing a new bank, would I go with ally? I might go with one that is offering a slightly higher rate, but I like offers a really competitive rate. They're always up there in the top tier, even if they're not the very best. And they've got the no penalty CDs, which I'm a huge fan of. And so you just plug that away. And that gets you really dang close. So that keeps me from rate chasing, which can always change on a dime. It depends on what it is that the different banks are offering. You don't want to constantly be, yeah, I'm floating bouncing from one to the next. But I think it's interesting that you said that you would maybe not go with ally only because other banks offer better rates, but not because of this credit downgrade threat. That is not the reason that that would keep me from going with ally for sure. Yeah, I mean, I like a lot that they offer. I like their interface. I like their app on the phone. And Masa, if it's not obvious, ally bank, it is the banking arm of ally financial who is, who actually received that negative outlook. And so the risk of ally defaulting, it's still relatively low and just given the tough times within the banking sector in general here, not just here in the US, honestly, just globally. And that has largely been caused by rising interest rates to differ competition for your savings dollars with all that money. I don't see this as a reflection of an ally specific problem. It just seems like it's more of just the, it's like, it's the rising tide as opposed to like a singular beach. So that's got a rising tide, right? It's something that's impacting not only the US, but I mean, it's a global issue that we're all going to be facing here. A lot of experts are saying maybe early 2024 that we're going to see that small recession yet to be seen. Yeah, banks are having a tough time right now. They're having a tougher time than they were in years past. And on top of that, I think the heart of the reason we would feel totally comfortable having our savings of an ally. You do feel comfortable having your savings at ally mat. I do more business with Discover, that's kind of my main bank, but basically if you have less than $250,000 in that account, there's no reason to worry, right? That would be me. Yeah, not that loaded. So we would tell you to make decision about which bank that you use or don't use based on other factors, right? Like you were talking about. Like the interest rate, like the interface, like the customer service. And so if you like all those features about the bank you're currently with about ally, don't let this credit downgrade reality or potential future credit downgrade threats make you nervous, right? Yeah, that's the thing. It wasn't even an actual downgrade. It was just a negative outlook, which means it has the potential for there to be downgrade, I guess, often the future. So it's just kind of like they're just putting it on allies radar, just being like, hey, we see your books, we see what's going on here, and we're just going to go ahead and preemptively say something. Yeah, and if we saw material weakness, yeah, and if there were more like hard evidence that ally in particular was doing a poor job, then it was impacting their customers, like, and they were covering cut rates and stuff like that, that would be one thing, but we haven't seen any evidence of that. And so, if they do, we will say something, right? And I probably will move my money. Sure, would that be the case? And similar to kind of what we talked about with the US credit downgrade, like, hey, this is one of those slow moving events that you should be aware of, it's not negligible, it's not nothing, but it's also not some sort of massive event that should cause you to take got big changes with how you invest or what you're doing with your money. But I would say too, for other folks who have more than a quarter of a million dollars in an ally or any other bank for that matter, they should fix that problem quickly, right? You are loaded. Yeah, if you've got crazy amounts of cash on hand, one, you might have too much cash on hand. And then two, you got to make sure that it's between multiple banks. I talked to somebody recently, Matt, who inherited a ton of money, he never had a lot of money. And it was hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. And so he was smart enough to split it up between multiple banks. And that is something that, yeah, if you have that cash on hand, why you're trying to figure it out, it should be under the umbrella of different banks so that you're getting full FDIC coverage for every dollar that you have. That's right. Let's get to our last question. This is from a listener who is looking to take advantage of a pretty sweet employer benefit. Hi, how to money. This is Hannah Tischer from Greenville, South Carolina. I'm going back to school to get my MBA part time with an employer-sponsored program. However, if I want to complete the program in three years, I will have to pay between $5,000 and $10,000 myself. Should I put this money in a $5.29 plan or continue saving it in my high-yield savings account? Thanks, and I hope you guys have a great day. All right, Matt, lots of cool stuff going on here with Hannah. Like, first, she's going back to school to gain more skills, something we applaud. But it sounds like her employer is paying the bulk of this, which is also great, if you can get someone else to put the bill for your education, we're doing something right. We're at least most of the bill. Which, so she said that in order to graduate early or to do the three-year program, so that's one consideration. Is there a way that you can- She could go more slowly, I guess. Just take your time. Not have to pay the $5,000 to $10,000. Right, I'm sure there are other things that you are considering Hannah. Sure, just a thought. And sometimes graduating more quickly makes sense, and you don't mind funneling some of your own dollars into that. Yeah. And my guess is that this MBA should lead to increased opportunities and bigger pay bumps in the future, with not too much out of pocket from Hannah, which is awesome. And so, yeah, way to take advantage of this additional perk that so many other people, so many other employees, just kind of leave on the table. But let's talk about how it is that Hannah is going to fund the amount that she's going to need to contribute or that she's choosing to contribute at least. She's wondering if she should have that money there in a high-yield savings account, or if she should consider using the $5.29 education account that's offered by her state of South Carolina there. So, which one do you use? Well, the answer to this is going to be both of them. So, yeah, this sounds crazy, kind of weird, but stick with me here, Hannah. South Carolina, they've got a state income tax. And the top rate is six and a half percent. Some folks pay zero. It all depends on your current income. But most of the 0% tax rate, by the way, is for people who make very little, very, very little. So, you probably aren't in there. The vast majority of folks pay that top rate because of the sliding scale. It only, yeah, truly benefits folks who make next to nothing. So, given that reality, any money that you contribute to a $5.29 account, it's going to reduce your taxable income at the state level. So, with that in mind, we definitely want you to sock the specific amount that you know that you're going to need to pay for an upcoming qualified educational expense into that $5.29 plan. That's right. But here's the thing. You don't actually have to keep the money in the $5.29 plan for all that long. Right, one of the biggest selling points to these accounts is that you can invest and grow those dollars for future educational expenses. Which sounds like a nice thing. Yeah. Why wouldn't I want to invest this money that's going to go towards my kids college in 15 years from now? Exactly, you've got plenty of time to let that money grow for their future. But, Hannah, given your need, Hannah's not two years old. No, she's not. And so, she's got to use this money really soon in the near term future. We don't want you investing money that's going into the $5.29 account, sock it in there, but we don't want you to invest it. We instead want you to keep it in the cash equivalent. But in that account, right, the cash account in the saving for college plan, it only pays 2.75%. So, once you've got it in there, and you have the qualified expense that year, pull it back out, put it in your HYSA, your HYSA account once you've got to make the payment. So, the money will be in there for a relatively short period of time. Could be days, could be weeks, maybe even a couple of months, but then you pull it back into your life. And really, what you've done is you've continued to maximize the yield of those savings dollars, but you've also gotten a sweet little tax break. We've done something very similar. Emily, of course, is in grad school studying to become a licensed therapist, and we've taken advantage of the $5.29 account in order to basically get some state tax savings, but we're not using it in the same way as we are for money that we're investing for our kids future education. You're not using it in the traditional means. You're really just jumping through a hoop in order to score the tax break, which is totally legal. This is totally legit. And because there are no requirements for how long that money needs to live inside of that $5.29 account in order to achieve that tax exempt status. Essentially, you're just filtering that money. It's almost like you're laundering your money. But it's like a legal laundering. That's exactly what I thought. The money goes into it, but then you're immediately taking it out. But because you've stuck it in there, you get that tax exempt. That's why I bought the nails to lawn, Matt, so that I could lawn and pay no tax on all my earnings. I think you kind of hinted at this, but you do have to wait to withdraw the money until the year that the qualified educational expense is going to occur. And so what that means, if this were me, I would go ahead and earmark the funds that you know you're going to need to put towards tuition, these qualified expenses. Set that money aside within your high yield savings account. And then whenever it is that you, because it may not be, that may not be a bill that comes due this year, that might happen next year. And so you want to keep that money as long as possible, earning your five, four, five percent in your high yield. And then once you know that, okay, this is the year that I'm going to incur that expense, that's when you go ahead and put that within the $5.29 account. And that's also when you're going to take it out, because when you take it out, it's that year it has to go towards that qualified expense. And if you have like a longer timeline, Hannah, if you're saying, oh, this is money, I'm going to have to pay towards the MBA in seven, eight years from now. Then I would, we would say like, oh, no, maybe it's going to open it up and invest some of those dollars and grow it. But because we're on a more truncated timetable, I think it makes sense to do it this way. The whole, yeah, exactly. The entire reason that we're talking about not investing it is because we want you to be able to avoid the, sort of like we're talking about earlier, was it with Don, she's getting closer to retirement. And so we're looking to avoid that risk. Yeah. That's what we're trying to get you to do here, Hannah, is to avoid the investment risk, the volatility, because you know you're going to need that money now. And so any time you know you're going to need access to funds in a time period less than two or three years, we don't want you investing that money. And so this is how you can earn the most on that money without actually investing it. And it doesn't have to sit there for, again, all that long. It doesn't need a like season for a year or anything. So we want you to be able to get the best of both worlds here by taking this, what we'd call a slightly more optimized route. But Hannah, best of luck to you, as you're heading off there to grad school, or specifically to get your MBA. So did Hannah say she was in South Carolina? Did she say she was in Greenville? Oh, I don't know if she said. Okay, well, if she is, she would easily be able to go and visit the brewery that we're enjoying on today's episode. So again, this was the, here you say it. I'm going to read it. That's a silly name. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm just still, silly saying it. Our depictions of yet another revolutionary absence. This is an imperial pastry stout, I believe, what were your thoughts on this thick, bad boy that we enjoy today? Yeah, I was, first things first, it was thick. It was viscous, right? And then I tasted sweet vanilla and cinnamon combo, a little bit of that toasted coconut coming through as well. And it's just this big, burly, magnificent, magnanimous stout. I don't even know what other other adjectives to throw in on this one. I would say chocolatey as well. That's like the first thing that I noticed was, it just was like chocolate. I felt like I was drinking like a hot chocolate, which is kind of the opposite. Or straight out of the Willy Wonka River. Oh my gosh, yeah, just like, Augustus, no. Drinking straight from the sacred fount. But could you really imagine any heavier beer to enjoy? I'm quite possibly the hottest day. Seriously. We talked about how stouts are. How you once avoided these big, heavy stouts. It's a bad idea. In the summer. It's a bad idea on 90 plus degree days. Well, okay, so here's, we're going to give, if you're listening to the episode this deep into the episode, we're going to go ahead and share something with you because it means that you're dedicated, right? So our little studio here, our little clubhouse, our AC unit is a window unit. And what that means is that when we record, we actually have to go and turn it off. Because it's loud, it's noisy. It's noisy. And so on these hot days, with the AC turned off, it gets really warm. And it starts to feel like we're like, really towards the center of the Earth's core. What's the win-hoff method? Whatever that is, this is the opposite. It's like, we're basically like in a sauna here. Hey, yeah, I was going to say free sauna, right? We've got a little thermometer over here. And inside our office right now, it is 92.8 degrees. So we're sweating over here. It's dedication right there. It's one of the ways we're able to keep expenses low, though, Joel, we've got this old carriage house that does not insulated. But man, we still love it, though. You know what we always say? What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And so I think it makes us, I feel stronger. Better humans, better podcasters. Let's hope so. If it doesn't make us delirious, but that's going to do it for this episode. And listeners, you can find show notes up on our website, as always, at HowToMoney.com. We've got other resources there, too, including the HowToMoney newsletter, HowToMoney.com slash newsletter, comes out every Tuesday morning. It's a gem. It's, of course, free, provides a lot of encouragement. Alongside great money advice. That's right. So buddy, that's going to be it for this one until next time. Best friends out, best friends out. I'm the Wizard of Oz. I'm the one making everything happen. Real housewife of Salt Lake City Star, Jen Shaw, is running the scam of the century. I remember one time, Stuart lost like about 8 million. Jen was very upset and she came down to the office. I was like, I'm the one making everything happen. Real housewife of Salt Lake City Star, Jen Shaw, is running the scam of the century. I remember one time, Stuart lost like about 8 million. Jen was very upset and she came down to the office late at night with coach. Y'all are screaming out and I am asking him where their money is. Listen to Queen of the Con, season four, the Unreal Housewife on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On his new podcast, six degrees with Kevin Bacon, join Kevin for inspiring conversations with his friends and fellow celebrities who are working to make a difference in the world, like actor Matthew McConaughey. You know, I found myself moving up state in the middle of this fracking fight, and I'm trying to raise kids there, and my neighbors, like willing to poison my water. Listen to six degrees with Kevin Bacon on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marissa Fallberg. And I'm Stephen Wolf-Fanada. Come join us for our podcast brand new. So what's really new about brand new? Well, Stephen and I are not only long-time C-suite executives, we're friends. Because of that, we've got a lot to say about tech entertainment, advertising, media, and marketing, what we call team. It's real talk from the inside, personal talk too, and it's meant for everyone, rising in business, or just interested in it. Let's look for the brand new podcast wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation you won't want to miss.