Ask HTM - Student Loan Forgiveness Gray Area, Getting an Umbrella Policy, & Investing in Gold #724

In 1995, Detective Tony Richardson was trying to figure out who killed a fellow officer. The case comes down to who is believed and who is ignored. Oh my goodness, we did connect to Innocent Man. I'm Beth Shelburn from Lava for Good Podcasts. This is Ear Witness. Welcome to Ear Witness on the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes the pop culture we love just teens hits differently in retrospect. Maybe it's a tabloid story we couldn't get enough of or an illicit student-teacher relationship on our favorite show. We're Suzy Banna-Karim and Jessica Bennett, posts of the new podcast in retrospect. Where each week we'll revisit a cultural moment from the past that shaped us and probably you. To try to understand what it taught us about the world and our place in it. You're the first person that I've talked to about this for years and years. Listen to In retrospect on the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Marissa Thalberg. And I'm Stephen Wolf-Pedetta. Come join us for our podcast brand new. So what's really new about brand new? Well Stephen and I are not only longtime C-suite executives, we're friends. Because of that, we've done a lot to say about tech entertainment, advertising, media, and marketing. It's real talk from the inside, personal talk too, and it's meant for everyone rising in business or just interested in it. Just look for the brand new podcast wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation you won't want to miss. Welcome to How To Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt and today we're answering your list of questions. You know what, buddy, it's Monday, so we've got listener questions to get to. We've got some great ones today, including a listener is wondering how her and her husband how they should approach student loan payments resuming, particularly if they qualify it for forgiveness. How does they should be thinking about that? We'll dive into the nitty gritty a little bit. Another listener is wondering about umbrella policies, who it is that should get them when it is they should consider getting one of those, so we'll talk about that. And another listener, he's got some silver and gold on hand, and so what should he actually do with that? Should he hoard it like a Benedict Cumberbatch in his cave? I think hoarding it makes sense. Like smog. I think it's a reasonable way to handle. And this is actually physical gold and silver, so we'll talk about that. Yeah, just like not the almost the dinosaur, not just like the dragon. But yeah, we'll get to those plus more during this episode, but you got this thing in here about the belt card you wanted to mention? Yeah, so I always love hearing money wins from our listeners and I feel like we get emails every week from somebody who's like, dude, I did this, like, how amazing. And so it's always fun to, and we see it in the Facebook group as well. If you're not a member of the Facebook group and you're on Facebook, you should be the how-to-money Facebook group. But I love getting those emails and listener and Nazar, he was talking about kind of an arbitration play that he pulled with his belt card, Nazar from Illinois, right? Yeah. And he made emails that's like, I don't know, a few times a year. Yeah, it's always nice to hear from him. Yeah, we get repeats from, or, you know, repeat emails from listeners all the time, which I love. Which means you get to know a listener. Yeah. And we kind of hear their struggles, their wins, how does that, that they're handling their money. Exactly. This was no exception. And so we talk about how when something comes with the transaction fee, how often, that's really annoying, right? We're seeing more and more credit card transaction fees, talking more about that recently. But what are the rewards you're getting under card, and do they make up for the transaction fees, or much more than make up, in fact, for the transaction fee, and, and Nazar mentioned there was something that he was paying for, I forget what he said, paying for with his built card. And it had like, there was a 1.25% transaction fee, property taxes, he had, he had some property taxes come due, and he realized, which is usually a big bill, like thousands of dollars. And considering that it's a government bill, they're not going to eat those costs. They're going to try, they're sticking those costs with you, just like the cellular providers are. Yeah. Right. And so, but what he mentioned was, actually, built was offering a limited time, five X points for, for using your card, I think for anything. And so he was like, boom, shakalaka, the 1.25% transaction fee, well, it pales in comparison to the five X points I'm getting. And so it's just, it's, you're doing an arbitrage, an optimization play, with the card usage at that point. But clearly, you have to be able to pay the bill on time in a full at the end of the month. But knowing, knowing Nazar as well as I do, based on our email correspondence, I'm, I'm pretty sure he's got that handled. And Joel knows you well, Nazar, because he's, he builds out these dossiers on everybody that emails in and creates these profiles that we keep on our local servers. Well, then I sell them to people in Silicon Valley, so they can specifically target you and how does that spend? Now, I mean, so much of personal finance has to do with what, like, what are the alternatives? And we oftentimes say that. And so, yeah, what are your alternatives? Well, it means not earning any points for you to pay this with, you know, writing a check or some, like an ACH transfer. Or like somebody, yeah, somebody who the same advice applies no matter what, well, they're just not thinking enough, right? Like, if, if the advice is to always pay off your mortgage, well, given today's environment, what are the alternatives? Yeah, the alternatives are, it seems more attractive today, certainly for folks who have brand new mortgages that with higher rates. But for the folks who don't, there's nothing else that you could do with your money. What are the alternatives? Talk about that in a recent How to Money newsletter, by the way, didn't I? Right. Okay. Let's get to the beer. So today, dude, is a prankster. This is by North Coast Brewing Company. It's a Belgian-style golden ale, and this one was donated to the show by local listener Greg. Yeah. Yeah. So, lives around the corner. Drop that off in person. Thank you, Greg. We appreciate that. We'll get to our thoughts. This is his favorite beer, by the way. And we'll get to our thoughts on Greg's favorite beer. It's a good style. Yeah. Not one that we often... Is it Alagash Curio? Isn't that a golden, like, a golden Belgian as well? It might be. I think Alagash does. We do the Alagash white, which is kind of like a Belgian white, so... Belgian white. Yeah. All right. We'll give our thoughts on this one at the end of the episode. But if you have a question that you'd like Matt and I to tackle on a future episode, we'd love to hear it just kind of howdomoney.com slash ask. Simple instructions there for you to record a voice memo, send it over our way easy to do. Maybe we'll take it next week. In the weirder? The better. Yeah. Oh, we love the weird ones. I'm gonna say. Get real cray. All right. But Matt, let's get to this first one. This one comes from a listener who just bought a home. She's pumped. But she's also a little nervous about her finances. Hey guys, I'm Taylor. I'm from Pennsylvania. I'm 23 years old and a few months ago I bought a house. Great. Super excited about it. I love it. But since moving in and taking on all those new bills, I've been struggling to find an effective way to budget. I constantly find myself at the beginning of the month figuring out my plan and then next week I'm going back through and redoing it and I'm just struggling to really help myself map out where my money needs to go for all of those new bills that I'm taking on. If you guys could just give your opinion, any advice would be helpful to help me improve with my budgeting skills. Thanks. Love you guys. Bye. All right, Taylor. Thank you so much for your question. And I am, dude, a couple of things here. I'm glad to hear that you're loving the house and I've got to say I am super impressed that there are 23 year olds out there buying houses, right? Like you are most likely fresh out of school and somehow you've got enough to put down to purchase a home, start building up some equity. I was 23. I was not in that position now. Now I was 23. No. Taylor, I mean, in a few years' time she'll be ready to take over hosting this podcast because she's obviously, she's on a trajectory that's much better than ours. Yeah. Yeah. But we had more room to improve, Joel. Oh, that's true. Yeah. That's what it's about. Don't you love wanting the most improved one more time? That's like in time. How bad was I? Right. But yeah, home ownership, it can be an overwhelming thing from not only like a personal perspective, but also from a financial perspective as well, Taylor. And I'm, you know, I'm sure that you've projected out some of those increased costs that you might encourage, some of those bills. But it's one thing to imagine and to kind of think, okay, yeah, I'll have to do this. I'll have to do that. But it's another thing to actually receive those bills and the mail and to start organizing and figuring out how it is you're going to, you're going to tackle all those. Objections are one thing. Concrete reality is another. Right? And so oftentimes you can't, it's hard to project emotions as well and what it feels like. You might know that, well, yeah, I do have enough on hand, but how do I actually go about doing this? It feels different. Yeah, I think it can make you feel a certain way when you're like, okay, I can handle this in my budget. And these are the, even if your projections are pretty spot on, but then you're like, wait a second, it feels like I don't have enough money now to go towards the other things that I care about. So it, and it's not just folks who are buying a new home, by the way, but, but even just moving into a new apartment, right, that someone's running that can throw a wrench into your personal finances. We're talking like security deposits, getting a handle on utility start dates and like the oftentimes methods like a deposit required, right, to start, start utilities. The cost is associated with getting your previous place back in shape, whether you're paying and cleaning service or you're just spending the money on cleaning supplies yourself. And then of course, the actual process of moving all your stuff, oftentimes that cost money. Like unless you're a type A organizer, an Uber minimalist, right, moving can be incredibly disruptive to your life. If you can fit everything in your SUV and make one single move, right, one drive, then props to you, but that's not the position that I think most folks might know, my little sister is the closest to that and still can't quite pull it off because they've got like a couch and stuff like that. They need help with, right? But they live the minimalist, like one bedroom apartment lifestyle really well, but even still moving sucks. And it's okay, right, Taylor, that you don't have your budget totally dialed in yet, right? You're likely just up and in your life, you're starting this new chapter and it's going to take some time to get things figured out. So if it was me, I would say be, I would offer myself some grace and I think you should offer yourself some grace knowing that it's going to take time. Hopefully you have enough in reserve. So then you're like freaking out from a financial perspective like, oh man, can I pay the mortgage next month? It doesn't sound like you're there. But so just be a little gracious to yourself as you're kind of, even if it's, you're not perfectly dialed in. Yeah. Yeah. And you might be completely out of control and you have more bills than you thought were possible. Be patient with yourself. You like certainly stay organized, you know, enlist the power of auto pay in order to streamline some of these bills. But don't expect to nail your spending in the first few months in there in your new house because you can certainly try to, but your budget is not likely going to be immediately perfect because you're figuring things out now that you've got that new place or it's likely new to you, right? Like your new place, but chances are it's actually probably old, it's probably pretty old house. Yeah. And so it doesn't matter that your power bill in the apartment average, like $40 a month, if you've got a hundred year old bungalow, that's not insulated, like you might be paying closer to, like triple that, it might be more space and just space that's less efficient. That's true. Yeah. So for now, like I would focus on making sure that you're just doing a great job tracking your expenses, right? That they are all accounted for that you've got these expenses down on paper or you get them down in Excel rather than actually budgeting your expenses. But then, you know, after a couple months, after you've got your arms around everything, your expenses, they'll be dialed in and you can even then start to tighten the belt, right? You can ratchet in, you can rein in some of your spending a little bit, maybe where you see some slack, but initially I would just be focused on making sure that there aren't bills slipping through the cracks that you're catching everything. And then after a little while, then you can work on essentially getting back to prehouse tailor, because I feel like prehouse tailor had things figured out, you know, based on the fact that she was able to buy a home at the age of 23 and just the way she's talking about it, she's like, okay, I've made a budget at the beginning of the month, but then a week later, I'm realizing that it's completely gone to crap. She's just wrestling a different animal now. She is a completely different animal and she just has a very high standard is what I'm gathering. She's got a very high standard for herself as to what it is, like how it is at her performances or that her finances should be performing. Yeah, and it's one thing to, like we said, like project, hey, this is what I think the budget is going to be like. And then it's another thing in reality to have three months worth of documentation. And now you can, I think, come up with a more realistic budget based on the facts on the ground, like you're saying, Matt. And this doesn't even account, by the way, for the fun house purchases, the tailor probably wants to make, right? Bills, they're kind of boring. They're the steady thing, like the electricity bill or the gas bill, whatever it is. Those are the kind of things where you're like, yeah, I got to figure out how much I'm going to allocate towards that every month. And that's going to be a hard and fast rule. But I'm guessing on top of that, Taylor, you probably want to make this, this place feel more like you, right? You want to buy some new curtains or even just painting walls, right? That costs money. That's one of the cheapest things, right? That you can do to update your place and make sure it's high impact. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, painting a few walls can completely change your space in a really awesome way or even wallpaper. Well, but that's even more expensive than paint. Wallpapers in. It is. But it's also, it's more physical labor than I like to protect. Well, you've got to be skilled to put a wallpaper, even though, like even the piano stick stuff is that easy? I don't know. I've never, personally, I've never stuck up wallpaper. But the EC, you know, like we like perusing Zillow still and like our local coffee shop, they just open the interior. They've got wallpapers, like a custom kind of design wallpaper is totally, it's totally back. Yeah, but it is. It is. It's just maybe harder to actually apply than slapping something. Yeah, I remember, I remember like the, you had to use like the steam things to get wallpaper off. To get it. Yeah, I know how to get wallpaper off. That's something I did when we flipped the house like eight years ago or something like that. Yeah. So, never stuck it up. Yeah, wallpaper, it's one of those things. Yeah, it's going to cost you even more than the paint. But I guess one quick piece of advice we would offer on that front would be to write down a lot of the work right that you want to do to the home. And maybe even a few of the furniture decorative items that you want to buy. And once you have those listed, I would prioritize them, come up with like a reasonable timeframe for addressing each of these things, given the amount of money in the bandwidth that you have, and always keep some money in reserve for unexpected maintenance items. And by the way, when you have that list kind of figured out, look towards used website, look toward Facebook, look towards Facebook marketplace, right in eBay and Mercari, whatever, like those kinds of sites. So you can maybe find some of those things for a whole lot cheaper than you'd otherwise. Then you'd otherwise spend going straight to target or home goods. It made me think back to there's this an auction that you and I like back. This is a lot. We didn't even have kids at this point, but Urban Outfitters auction. It was like an Urban Outfitters slash anthropology auction. It was basically returns that people would make and stuff that they couldn't resell. And man, I remember that was perfect timing. We saw a rocking chair with a broken leg that I like would glued back together. Yeah. There are these amazing Persian rugs that we purchased there. Like we even bought a, man, we bought like a anthropology sofa, nothing for like 80 bucks that we just ended up flipping because it didn't work out for our space. But I think being creative and trying to find ways, maybe some some non-traditional places where you could outfit your home might be a great way to go. But you mentioned keeping some money on reserve. That is so important, especially once you have a house, because there is no landlord to call. When a toilet starts to leak, call your old landlord, but they'll hang up on you. When you dishwasher breaks, yeah, they're not going to send something out to take care of that point. Hey, my dishwasher broke. Sorry, that's cool. Miss ya. And so just like you're going to need to give yourself a little more grace like we talked about there, right? A little more margin because you don't have your budget sorted out. Well, you're also going to need to give your money a little more margin as well because back when you're renting, maybe you felt totally fine with just three months of living expenses on hand. But with a house that you are fully responsible for, I think it could make a, make a lot of sense to maybe pad out that emergency fund. Maybe something a little closer to six months worth of living expenses went before. You thought, that seems ridiculous. You could probably tell by looking at your roof how old it is and whether or not it needs to be replaced in the near future. But the shingles curling a little bit. Yeah. So then like, all right, you're probably going to need to replace that roof in the next five years. And that's, I'm sure you got a house inspection as well. And so I'm sure you're aware of some of these potential repairs that are going to be costly that might be on the horizon, but just keep that in mind. It's not just, so right now, I think it's smart maybe to just, just, you've got the single emergency fund and it's worth expanding that out. But over time, there are some of these expenses that you want to actually plan for. You want to set up sinking funds. You want to have savings buckets because you know that, oh, yeah, at some point, I'm going to have to completely redo the bathroom because, again, it's 100 years old. So what's, what's it, like back in the day, they didn't have like concrete board instead, they just laid this one foot thick thing of concrete that you put the tile on. And so if anybody that's trying to renovate an old bathroom like that has personally experienced, I'm sure the amount of concrete that is virtually impossible to remove. But that's a costly thing. And it's just worth starting to a triage and make sure that you have enough on hand to kind of weather some of these, some of these housing storms, some of these different repairs. But then over time, you want to start identifying some specific things that you want addressed and really to set aside sinking funds to address those future expenses. All right. And now this is turning into an episode of this old house, which is fine. I mean, we can do that. All paper plaster. What else? Rooms. Yeah. All sorts of stuff. We've addressed it all. I'm trying to overwhelm you. Hopefully you, and it sounds like you come from a place of having kind of good budget for a while. Like you know what you're doing. You're just, you just centered a new frontier. And then, you know, reorganize your budget to include kind of the new expenses that you've got coming your way. And like Matt said, add a little extra margin in there as well, because that just provides not only the financial backstop, but kind of de-stresses everything at the same time. But best of luck. Keep up the good work, Taylor. Matt, we got more questions to get to. Starting one about inheriting precious metals, what do you do with gold bars? We'll talk about that in just a little bit. Everness wise, we had virtually no evidence. We had the word of a 15-year-old who told lies, a lot of lies. In 1995, Detective Tony Richardson was trying to figure out who killed a fellow officer, Deputy Bill Hardy. Without solid evidence, the case comes down to who is believed and who is ignored. We did commit to an innocent man. And he's been on death row all these years, and I didn't know it. I'm Beth Shelburn from Lava for Good Podcasts. This is Ear Witness. Listen to Ear Witness on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes with no ads, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. This is In Retrospect, a podcast about pop culture from the 80s and 90s that shaped us. I'm a product of the pop culture I consumed, and I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm Jessica Bennett, a New York Times writer and best-selling author. I'm Susie Beta Caram, an award-winning TV producer and filmmaker. Every week, we'll revisit a moment in cultural history that we just can't stop thinking about. From tabloid headlines to illicit student-teacher relationships, and one, very memorable red swimsuits. I found myself in Pamela Anderson's attic, as you do. I put that red swimsuit in a safe because it seemed everybody wanted it. We're digging deep to better understand with these moments taught us about the world and our place in it. I want you to really smell the axe-body spray that emanated during this time. It was presented more as kind of like a crime topic, and that's not a love story. Not a love story. It had been branded on the uteruses of every single woman from C to shining C. Listen to In Retrospect on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Marissa Fallberg. And I'm Steven Wolfededa, and we want to invite you to join us for a new podcast for Ann New. So what's actually new about brand new? Well, Steven and I are not only working C-suite executives, we're friends. My friend Marissa is actually one of the most influential chief marketing officers in the world. Steven has a story career across finance, tech, and multicultural entertainment. Because of that, we've got a lot to say about the world of tech, entertainment, advertising, media, and marketing, what we actually call team. We always adore each other, but don't always agree with each other, and that's part of the fun. It's real talk from the inside, sometimes personal talk too, and it's meant for everyone rising in business or just interested in it. In each episode, we give our hot takes on hot topics, and always answer what's on your minds too. Let's look for the brand new podcast on the I Heart Podcast Network, or wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation that you won't want to miss. A weekend full of superstar performances. Never seen before collaborations. And once in a lifetime moments, you'll have to see to believe, don't miss your chance to see. Food fighters. Fallout boy. Kelly Clarkson. King Brown. Lil Wayne. Lilters. Lenny Kravitz. Miguel. Public Enemy. Cheryl Crowe. Travis Scott. Tim McGraw. TLC. 30 seconds to Mars. 10 more. By your tickets for our 2023, I already owe music festival now. Before they sell out at AXS dot com, that's AXS dot com. We are back from the break, and we will get to that question about silver and gold, and no, we're not talking about the suit you'll see. Silver and gold. What are you singing? That second old holiday song. Oh, is it? Yeah, it's funny, because I was thinking silver and gold. Isn't that the name of the suit you on? It is. Okay. Second, like five CD Christmas album that he released. Okay. We will get to that one here in a second, but first, let's take a question about student loans. Hi, Matt and Joel. This is Camille Colling from St. Paul, Minnesota, the greatest city in our state. And I've got a question for you related to student loan repayment and the safe plan. I'm on PSLF and expect that my loans will be forgiven pretty soon. However, my spouse also graduated with a bunch of student loans, each of which were individually below 12,000 in their original principal balance, and he's been on an income driven repayment plan for more than 10 years. As we approach the end of the student loan pause, we want to have our plan ready, and I'm hoping you can chat a little light on the situation. From what I understand, it sounds like his loans would be eligible for full forgiveness next summer, but I'm a little uncertain because he hasn't been enrolled in repay or saved specifically the whole time. From what you know, does the 10-year clock start when someone makes their first payment, enrolls in an IDR plan, or enrolls in save? If he's already made 10 years of payments, could we just not pay anything since it's the on-ramp period, and then have the loans forgiven next summer when the safe plan is fully implemented? Do months wear loans weren't paid during the student loan pause count towards the 10 years of payments similar to PSLF? Do you think we should plan for forgiveness and ignore our student loans but systematically hide gold coins in the grounds like squirrels hiding acorns? That seems like the best option sometimes. Thanks so much, and I look forward to your answer. All right, we got another reference to gold coins. Yeah. Yeah, okay, we'll talk a lot about gold loans. Yeah. And Matt, I couldn't tell, is Camille incredibly proud of her city, or is she ragging on the rest of Minnesota? She's like, it's great here. Does it suck there? Does it suck in the rest of it? I doubt it. I'm sure Minnesota is a great city. I don't know. Maybe she really is like, yeah, no, the rest of the state, not so great. Come here. Don't go there. All right, let's talk about student loans, Matt. Let's talk about payments resuming. And first off, Camille, congrats on having your loans forgiven soon. People on PSLF, Matt, have, in particular, made out like bandits during this payment pause. That's because like the three and a half years of not having payments at all, well, it counted as making on-time payments on the 10-year timeline. Yeah. So like it counted towards that 10-year, those 120 payments, like a third of the timeline was consumed of having made on-time payments by not having to have make actual payments at all. So yeah, Camille in particular is like a beneficiary of that, and as well as everyone else who's on their way to PSLF. And the cool thing too on top of that is you owe no tax on the forgiven amount either. That's not the case necessarily. For every single loan type, but anybody enrolled in PSLF, the amount that is forgiven is not taxable, which is cool too. So it's a pretty sweet setup where pumps for you, Camille, but let's talk about your husband because he's in a bit of a different boat and we'll give him to the nitty gritty and discuss right now. That's right. Yeah. So first, you mentioned not paying anything until forgiveness becomes available next summer. And so let's just generally, overall for everybody here, let's address this because normally it would be a really bad idea to not pay on your student loans each month, like clockwork. It could result in the language status, could damage your credit score as well. But that's not the case for the next year as the Biden administration has instituted a really, basically, it's like a really long on-ramp to repayment. That's what they're calling it as an on-ramp and it's like the longest on-ramp of on-ramps in existence. But with the save plan, folks who don't pay on their loans for a full year, they're still not going to have those late payments reported. They're not going to have their credit scores dinged up. Or neither will they be sent to collections, either. It's, again, sort of like a payment pause extension, but truly, they're just calling it something else. They're just calling it the save on-ramp just so that folks aren't surprised once those payments. They're trying to bridge the gap, essentially, between now and next July when the rest of the save plan kicks in. Like some of the elements kick in now, some of the elements don't fully kick in until July of next year, until summer of next year. So what we would tell you if you opt to go that route is to keep in mind that interest will continue to accrue, right? If you don't make those new monthly payments under the save plan, and by the way, if you already had unpaid interest, it's not going to disappear. You still have to pay that down, but if borrowers do make their monthly payment, the good news is that interest will not accrue, right? You're not going to see your balance grow up due to interest racking up. So those are like the finer points of the details. So basically, if you're 100% sure that this loan is going to be forgiven, you might want to take this route. But if you're not, you could up in a worse spot with those student loans, then you'd otherwise be in going that route. That's right. And as far as what your husband, I guess what you and your husband should do moving forward, your husband should definitely sign up for save if he's not automatically enrolled. You can do that via the Department of Education's website. And you can do that right now too. And it's advisable to do it now. Yeah. And the way those loans are considered eligible for forgiveness is based on payments, not the length of time that he was enrolled in a repayment plan, not after save has been implemented. It doesn't kick in with like the first payment with that new plan. So it says specifically on the Department of Education's website, quote, borrowers with original principal balances of $12,000 or less will receive forgiveness of any remaining balance after making 10 years of payments with the maximum repayment period before forgiveness, rising by one year for every additional $1,000 borrowed. So even if you're listening and you're like, oh, man, I'm really close to that 12 home, but I'm actually over, well, you still qualify for forgiveness, but it might be a year or two extended, depending on how much you've borrowed, but payments made before you opt into the safe plan are going to count towards the forgiveness timeline. So it's previous payments made in future payments as well. It doesn't just qualify folks who are moving, say, like fresh out of school and they are just now getting started with the safe plan. Your previous payments totally count, and similar to your PSLF plan, those 40 plus months of no payments, they will count toward this timeline. Yeah. From everything we've read, those count as well towards the timeline. So it's going to make a lot of people eligible pretty quickly for some of this new forgiveness once it rolls around next summer. It's why this is the new safe plan is such a huge stinking deal, because like there is a lot of student loans that are being forgiven. And we said, you and I said, from the moment it was announced that this is actually a bigger deal than just the blanket forgiveness at the Biden administration tried to and failed the past, right? That this is going to provide more financial relief than just a blanket 10 or 20K and forgiveness. And it looks like from everything we can tell that that's going to be true, like a hundred percent true. This is going to be a massive game changer for people with student loans. So and then the question that Camille had was, well, should she bank on this forgiveness taking place and squirrel her gold coins away, right in the ground, which I mean, I think we like the work conservative in a lot of ways. I mean, there's some ways in which probably you and I are not conservative, but when it comes to counting your chickens for the hatch, there was a lot of people who who did that with the student loan forgiveness declaration, right? They were like, okay, cool. Let me spend all this extra money then I'm going to pretend my student loans exist and they're going to get wiped out. They had a rude awakening. Yeah. So we would say on this, well, don't actually spend the money, right, until the forgiveness comes to pass. The safe plan has been in the works for a bunch of months. I think this is going to stick around. I don't think this is going to face the same sorts of legal opposition, but it is susceptible to legal challenges. And so you just can happen. Yeah. I would not spend the money before seeing the forgiven and full statement come in the mail, right? So while you might not want to make payments right now and you might both have these loans forgiven really soon, which it sounds like it will, especially with PSLF, I worry a whole lot less about that. It's a good idea to save the money that you would have paid each month toward those loans instead of spending it. If you like the squirrel, hoard the dollars. And then once those loans are hopefully and likely forgiven, you'll have a ton of financial breathing room. You'll have a lot of options of what you can do with the money that doesn't need to go to our student loans anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Horde those gold coins, but don't eat the acorns yet, like store them away. And that's what's so great, given the high interest rate environment that we're in, is that you're not completely having all of that money eaten away by inflation. We are seeing inflation come down a little bit and we are seeing the rates that banks are paying on how you'll savings go up significantly. So this is a perfect opportunity for you to suck some of those dollars away or earn a lot of interest on that. Have it on hand just in case that there's some sort of legal challenge in case there's some sort of political scrutiny that the new safe plan comes under, but assuming that everything moves forward like the White House is planning, you're going to have hopefully a chunk of money on hand next summer to put down towards a house to, yeah, do who knows what? You've got to worry. Maybe you never know. You've got in mind. Okay. Speaking of gold, is that what she said squirrelingly, gold coins in her own? Yeah. Okay. So we've got our question now from our listener here in Georgia about an inheritance. Hey, guys, this is Nick from Athens, Georgia, been listening to the podcast for about six months. I appreciate what you guys are doing. So my question is regarding an inheritance that I received in the last couple of years. The main portion of which was a 401K account, which came with a pretty high tax liability that I underestimated just a bit. But there were some other portions, including some silver and gold. So my question is, would it make sense to use some of that silver and gold potentially sell it to cover some of the tax liability? Just a little more info. I probably do have enough cash on hand to pay the taxes without worrying about tapping into any other reserves, but that would leave me pretty empty on cash. Have some sort of planned expenses coming up might need to get a new car, potentially replace my roof down the road. So I don't really want to wipe my cash completely out. Plan to do my own research, but just wanted to see if you guys had any advice on how good of an investing strategy, gold and silver is, and then maybe where to get started, if potentially get a good price on selling it. Thanks. Nick, first off, man, sorry for your loss and inheritance means you've lost somebody that you love or care about and listened to some sort of uncle you never heard about. That happens sometimes, Matt, where people get an inheritance and they're like, I didn't even know that person. I hope that was the case for you, Nick. But yeah, I also, Matt, I love that he said he plans to do his own research, right? Because you totally should. Like, we will do our best to help you here, but we're certainly not infallible. We're far from it. And so it is something that we highly suggest, whether you're reading our content or listening to us, it's a good idea to make sure you're listening to multiple sources. We would never say, like, take our word as 100% gospel truth, and everyone has a different vantage point. Matt and I have our own vantage points, and we try to be honest with about our potential biases and our actual biases, but even sometimes it's hard to recognize your own bias. So that's true. That being said too, when Nick said he might need a new car, I hope he meant new to him, not brand spanking new. Brand new cars have gotten really expensive these days. I think they're about to crest a 50k price range on average. And so you can pay more for insurance, too, typically when you do that. So upgrading to a nicer used car might make more financial sense. But I just wanted to toss that out there before we kind of get into the nitty gritty of inheritances and golden silver. That's right. But specifically, Nick is asking about what to do about this specific inheritance. And man, inheriting a 401k, it does come with some tax consequences. So for older listeners out there, then maybe you want to leave some money behind some assets for the loved ones, Roth money makes receiving that inheritance much easier, mainly because it eliminates the taxes that they would otherwise owe because you've already paid taxes on that money, because you don't get much cleaner thing to inherit a Roth. Yeah. One way to reduce your tax liability on that 401k, Nick, though, is to leave the money in the plan for the time being because of new inheritance rules. You've actually got 10 years to fully empty out that account. But you must start taking those required minimum distributions, those those RMDs from the inherited IRA by December 31st of the year following the original owner's death. So kind of keep that that timetable, that timeline in mind. And since you pay tax on the distributions that you take, it's likely best to plan to take this distributions over a longer period of time, right? Where you're stretching it out, potentially reducing your overall tax liability, but at least not giving you a massive headache or you to do it in a single year, where it takes, it significantly increases the tax bracket that you're in. If you liquidate the whole thing in one fell swoop, yeah, that's going to cause a meaningful tax issue in that specific year. And Matt, what you're saying is like, hey, no, take smaller distributions over a decade, like you're allowed to do under the law. And that's probably going to work out better for you from an overall tax perspective. Even if it's not from an overall perspective, at least it's going to help you plan more effectively, right? Sure. Let's talk about precious metals. Like you said that Nick said that he inherited silver and gold to sounds like that was on top of the 401k and then based on the way you talked about it, it makes me think that you inherited literal physical gold and silver. So I'm not sure if that was in like a safety deposit box or, or, or, you know, how that came to you, but it made it sound like you're not, you did not inherit like an ETF that tracks precious metals, which would be so much easier to say. Yeah. It sounded like he's like, what do I do with this gold? Right. I've got one hand. Why? What do I sell it? And we're not really you and I, we're not fans of investing in gold, whether it's physical or whether it's some sort of fun that tracks the price of gold. What about platinum? Um, not that. And so the thing is though, like it is at least easier and comes with fewer transaction cost. If you have a fund that owns precious metals and not the actual precious metals themselves. So if you have physical silver and gold, I would want to sell it too. It's just a risky asset to have on hand. But here's the thing. Buying and selling comes with a higher wasn't known as bid-ask spread, which means that you don't get the full value of your investment when you're selling it. You've probably heard ads for like precious metal companies on old school radio, right? And we don't recommend buying any, right? Not even on old school radio, even though I'm like, I've heard ads for, yeah, precious metals on my desk, hopefully not on ours. And if you hear that, let us know we'll try to make sure it's taken off. Because sometimes there are ads that are on our show that we don't know. We don't know they're running. So give us a heads up so that those ads aren't going out to other listeners who might not be the wiser, right? Sure. And so, um, yes, you might hear those ads, but whether we're talking about physically owning gold, having them in your, in your actual possession, uh, sticking them under your mattress, however you might store those or owning an ETF that owns bullion, like it's, it's not a good idea for most people. And in fact, we would rather see you invest in the American, the world economy, as opposed to investing in a hedge asset like gold. For most people, um, it just, it doesn't need to be a part of their portfolio. And if, and here's the thing too, it's really important to think about whether or not you would go out and proactively buy these things that you've inherited. Because if you wouldn't go out, if you weren't saying, you know what's missing in my portfolio, some silver and gold, if you weren't saying that already, then there's no reason to keep this around, right? It makes sense to sell whatever just came into your life. If it's not something you're proactively pursuing already. Yeah, I mean, I, I would think I would approach this in the same way that we approach folks who say were given a certain amount of stock from a family member. This is literally a question that we've gotten before. They're like, oh, my mom got me this stock starting at the, or my grandma did at the, bought me one stock of Coca-Cola every year since I was five years old until I was 21 or something like that. And similar to that advice, if you want to say maybe keep one share. So in this case, if you want to keep like one gold coin just as like a memento or just like, as it keepsake, I'm totally fine with that frame it put it on the wall, or even just like carry in your pocket. I think that's kind of cool. I would walk you rabbits foot. Yeah, just to be like, hey, check it out this, check out my gold coin. I think that's cool. But Joel, what you're talking like the, there's a behavioral finance term that you're speaking to that is called the endowment effect. And because we've inherited something, what happens is that we impute added value to it, even if it's not something that we otherwise would have, you know, ever, that we would have gone out and done if it was something that may not have even been on a radar. Yeah. But where do you sell this gold? This is another part of your question. The easiest option is to check online. There are different sites that are totally legit cash for gold USA. It's one of the oldest companies, oldest sites that's really reputable. Liberty golden silver. You can sell there as well. They've been around for a while. They're well reviewed. The mark. It's so it's called the company's called alloy. But I think if the RL is the alloy market, that's another site that make it really easy. But don't just take the easy online path. Go to a local jewelry shop, maybe go to a couple of them in order to see what they might pay. They're also pawn shops like coin like precious metal coin shops. And they specialize in buying and selling gold. I would totally go out there venturing to a couple of these different places. See what they would give you. Get some quotes. And it's not really an efficient process, which just reinforces our belief that golden silver aren't great things to own, especially in physical form. Yeah. But like literally they will buy gold from you and like jewelers in particular. I mean, they literally they even if they're making jewelry, if they're making custom jewelry, they get little bullion and they melt it down. So they would do the same thing with any coins or I don't know, dust bars that you might have around. I was curious to and I checked because the price of gold is actually near right now is near all time highs, which is kind of cool. And so this shouldn't encourage you to time the market, but from an emotional standpoint, it might help a little bit to, to see, well, should I unload this? Well, maybe it softens the blow a little bit knowing that that silver is actually not quite as high. So hopefully you've got more gold on hand than so. But yeah, totally unloaded. That's what I would do. Yeah, Nick. And by the way, last piece of advice for you, we just try to let this inheritance boost your ability to save, invest and work towards financial independence, right? And, and take the boring path of investing in index funds in your tax advantage to counts first. I think the more you do of that, the better off you're going to be. And I feel like this could be kind of an interesting sidebar to your personal finance education. But hopefully it actually like helps reroute you back on the main track to, to pursue your, you know, financial knowledge and your financial acumen, even more in the coming months and years. And hopefully it's just like, yeah, a little financial boost too, as you're trying to reach and achieve some of those goals. Totally. Yeah. And by the way, the reason, I guess part of the reason too, he's talking about selling this is to not deplete all of this cash savings on hand. And that's totally not the position you want to find yourself in when you have zero liquidity. You've completely wiped out your savings and you've got some of these, I think he, you mentioned the car which you addressed, but he, I think he also was talking about maybe a future, like a roof down the road that might need to be replaced. We're talking a lot of this old house, this old house fixes that might need to happen. But that is why we want you to go ahead and sell this is because we don't want you to find yourself in a, in a wheat cash position, we want you to have that liquidity. Yeah. But all right, Joel, we've got more to get to specifically. We're going to talk about umbrellas, but maybe not the kind that you're thinking about. We'll get to that right after this. Everness wise, we had virtually no evidence. 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And once in a lifetime moments, you'll have to see to believe, don't miss your chance to see food fighters, fallout boy, Kelly Clarkson, King Brown, Lil Wayne, Lilters, Lenny Kravitz, Miguel, public enemy, Cheryl Crow, Travis Scott, Tim McGraw, TLC, 30 seconds to Mars, 10 more by your tickets for our 2023 I already a music festival now. Before they sell out at AXS dot com. That's AXS dot com. All right, we're back Matt right now. It's probably a really good time for us to talk about an insurance policy that's really cheap that provides a ton of coverage than most people don't know about. And we actually call this the Facebook question of the day. There was a great we're switching things up a little. Yeah, great Facebook post this week. And by the way, if you're not a member of the How to Money Facebook group, well, what are you doing with your life, unless you're just kind of trying to stay away from social media, in which case, that's totally fine. But if you're on Facebook, the How to Money Facebook group is the place to be. And there's always great questions in there. And so we're like, why don't we feature those on occasion on the podcast? And so listener Derek posted in there this week and he said, I'm curious about umbrella policies. When you would you recommend purchasing one? Is there a certain net worth where it makes more sense to buy? He says, we don't own a home, but I want to make sure we're protected. Yeah. Well, don't forget he included the little umbrella rainstorm umbrella emoji, which everybody sees it. Now that I've said it, you can picture it. Isn't it purple? I don't know. Yeah. Well, then what made me think, oh, we should talk about this on the show was listener Deanna. She chimed in and she said, oh, man, I wish Matt and Joel would address this on the show and had a bunch of likes. And I'm like, okay, cool. Maybe. Just to talk about this. Here we go. So here we go. Yeah. Let's start with the definition. First off, it's called an umbrella policy for a very good reason. It's this broad based liability insurance, which protects you in the case of an accident. It's literally like an umbrella offering additional coverage for your other policies that might end up being insufficient. So you might have like tiny umbrellas that just don't show enough rain from like, let's say your homeowner's policy or your car insurance policy or a boating policy, something like that. And this umbrella policy is like, I'm the big boy umbrella, and I'm going to cover all the other ones. Just in case maybe they're not big enough to provide the coverage is necessary. I do like the visual that you get with an umbrella, right? But here's why I don't like it is because you think umbrella policy, well, that's what goes up there and it takes the brunt of any client that might be made. And that's actually, that might lead you to think that, well, that's the most important thing, but it's actually not because the other insurance that you have in place, it's going to kick in first. It makes me think of like Spartans or, you know, like, like a Knights or like Vikings in your case, but like they had shields that, you know, hopefully would protect them from arrows and swords and battle axes and stuff like that. But let's say, let's say someone hits you really hard with the sword and like the shield fails. Well, that's when the breastplate is there to it's like the last line of defense. And that's really what an umbrella policy is. It's there in case the limits of the initial policy are exceeded. Yeah. So it's limited visual impact. Yeah. Is what you'd say. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So this kicks in whether we're talking about, let's say, a car accident or, you know, where your coverage is insufficient for the damage that occurs or let's say if you've got a dog and it bites someone and they've got some medical bills. And by the way, those can those can add up. I have a friend who is a lawyer and he personal injury lawyer and you'd be surprised that the number of dog bites I deal with and about how much money the person, the plaintiff in that situation can command based on the medical bills that that can accrue. And so you're, you're thinking, oh, yeah, come on, unlikely. But man, if it happens, it really can be a substantial bill. And that's when that's when umbrella insurance comes in really handy. Totally. Yeah, it is there to cover the stuff that you hope never actually does happen. So okay, let's, I like the car example. Let's, let's say you were at fault in a car accident in your car insurance. It only covers up to $50,000 for the other vehicle. But let's say that the other car that you wrecked because it was, you know, you're at, it's an outfall accident. Let's say that car was worth $100,000, which given inflation, you know, in the car market specifically, that's not out of the question. Sure. If so, well, the driver is going to come after you personally for that extra $50,000. Well, that is when an umbrella policy would come in handy. It's going to protect your assets, the things that you own in the event that you're liable. Yeah. Yeah. And so let's talk about how much it costs to because umbrella insurance, it's, in my mind, it's kind of like renters insurance. And the only reason I compare the two or put them in the same breath is because they're both pretty darn cheap. And it's crucial for a certain segment of the population to have these specific coverages. But instead of covering renters, which is what renters insurance, like tenants, every tenant should have renters insurance because it's so dang cheap and it's going to cover all your possessions in the event that something happens. But when it comes to umbrella insurance, it's there to help hire net worth individuals. That's kind of specifically who it's therefore, if you're not in that camp, then you probably don't need it. So umbrella insurance offers extra coverage and I would say peace of mind for people who's financial assets have grown substantially over the years. It's kind of like a success tax, but it's a tiny one. And I say tiny because you can fetch something like a million dollar umbrella policy for, like, I don't know, 200, 250 to 350 in a given year, somewhere in that vicinity, somewhere in that ballpark for someone who has saved and invested and built up like substantial assets over the years, it's coverage that you probably need to have that's actually relatively inexpensive given what it provides. True. Keep in mind, though, that it'll have an impact on some of the other insurance policies that you might have because your insurance company might make you increase your insurance limits on other policies before they issue you an umbrella policy. So you can't have, let's say, like, state minimum coverage on your auto policy and then take out an umbrella policy because you're like, oh, no, that's the more affordable path to take, crank up the deductible, lower the coverage amount, and get that really cheap umbrella policy. You'd be hard pressed to make that happen, so you might find yourself paying more for your home or for your auto insurance as those limits increase. In addition to then what you're going to pay for the umbrella policy itself. Yes. Oh, I've got to pay an extra $325 a year now towards home insurance because they made me increase my limits. In addition to now paying the extra a few hundred dollars a year for umbrella insurance too. Again. So probably worth it for a lot of those people, but because the umbrella policy is secondary, so they just want to make sure that you're covering your bases in the ways that you should first before they have to, before they get the call and they're like, all right, time for you guys to pay up now. Yeah. And I think at the end of the day, really, when we're talking about umbrella insurance and what it's for, it's there to cover you in the case of a lawsuit. Typically, right? In the case of either like you said, Matt, running into a car that's worth so much more than your policy covers, like you run into the Ferrari on accident or something like that. Or even like a nice Tesla or the Ferrari you see and you think, oh, I mean, I literally think this when I put three lanes over, yes, literally, I do that. When I'm driving on the road and there's a nice car in front of me, I'm just like, nope, no, sir. And I just slow down and let somebody else pass me and get in front, like I want them to hit that Ferrari. And the, I don't know, likely chance that they start doing some crazy drive and decide to floor it or slam on the brakes or something that Ferrari's are capable of. But Tesla's are way more, uh, nondescript. Is that the right term? Yeah. It's hard to notice. Nondescript. That's what that's the word. They oftentimes just look like normal cars. They, you know, they don't have like a flashy bright red paint job on them or something like that. I didn't say they've gone on a price substantially. They have gone on a price, but yeah, I like the car examples because I think that is the most likely chance of you get sued because it's, man, you know, if you get just like your phone, there's a notification, somebody texts you, something happens in the car, like a kid says something in the back and you have to turn around, well, you know, don't do these things. But like, yeah, in my mind, these are the most likely scenarios for a lot of folks to end up getting sued by somebody. Yeah. And truly, that is like kind of what an umbrella policy is meant to protect against for the most part is a lawsuit that would occur because your coverage is insufficient. And so, Matt, it makes me think the two of us, we own rental properties, right? That increases the likelihood of a potential lawsuit. It means umbrella insurance is even more important for you and me, right? Having a teenage driver, that's another scenario that puts you at much greater risk of some sort of potential bigger catastrophic situation that means you're going to need more insurance coverage than you have through just your auto policy itself. That's right. Yeah. Your kid's not going to get sued because they don't have any money. Like, they're coming after you and luckily umbrella policies cover your family members as well. That's an important note to make sure. And so, other potential lawsuits waiting to happen are like throwing a house party, someone getting hurt and they're a really bad friend. And so, they sue you because they're just a litigious jerk, right? Those are the kind of things that could happen. I would say maybe a lot of these are in the unlikely possible realm. And that's partly why it's so cheap, right? Because umbrella insurance offers this protection that you're unlikely to need, but that you're glad you have if a situation like this arises. It's kind of limiting your financial exposure to the worst case scenario. And it's, again, it's the secondary policy, right? It kicks in after the primary insurance. And so, that's why it's so dang inexpensive. But for someone who has a lot of assets that could be at risk, it's a really smart play. Yeah. You mentioned house parties, but like if that's just who you are, that's just something that you do. Then that might be something that's on, and you've got like three bull mastiffs that you like to let roam free in your yard, or I don't know, and a pool and everyone's doing keg stands. And you're going to want a number of policy. So there's certain kind of situations and scenarios where you might be more likely to be sued, but it goes beyond just being in a situation where you're likely to be sued. You also need to have enough assets on hand, because let's say you are likely going to be sued, but let's say you've got a negative net worth. Well, in that case, it probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense for you to get an umbrella policy. You kind of need to have both on hand in order to, in order to think, all right, yeah, this is something I might, I might actually want to consider. One other thing to note too is that via the employer retirement, I think the security act or something like that, I think this is back from like the 70s, 1974, I think specifically. But it was a good year. It was a great year. But your 401k is actually shielded from lawsuits like this. And so we're talking about assets beyond the amount that you have in a 401k, and evidently, I think money that's in your IRA is also protected up to $1 million. So some of it depends on the state that you live in. But keep that in mind. And where your money's at, yeah. Yeah. And so keep that in mind. If you, you've got credit card debt, you don't have a ton of assets. And the majority of your wealth is in your 401k, like, let's say for some weird reason, you don't have a whole lot of money on hand and like a home or I don't know, other stuff. But you've got like $750,000 on the 401k. You actually still aren't a good candidate for umbrella policy because that money is going to be safe as opposed to if you've got half a million, a million, two million dollars in a brokerage account, something like that. Yeah. That could totally be on the hook, were you to be found guilty or whatever, I don't know all the legal terms. We're not lawyers. We just play ones on podcasts occasionally and home repair experts from time to time too. But yeah, I hope that answered your question, Derek. And hopefully everyone else in the Facebook group, Deanna and the rest, hopefully that's a helpful explanation. There's a lot of nuance right to umbrella policies. Yeah. If you ask your insurance agent, they'll probably say, of course you need one. Of course you should. We'll sell it to you. But there are a lot of people, Matt, who have high net worth, who have assets like they've got a substantial real estate portfolio or something like that. Or they have a decent chunk of cash in the bank and they might be too exposed if they don't have one of these policies. And again, they're pretty inexpensive and they provide a lot of that backstop that can be really helpful. I can prevent you from getting financially screwed in the unlikely event. You get sued by someone who is, let's it just right, it's a little safety net. Yeah. All right, let's get back to the beer that we had on this episode. This was prankster from North Coast Brewing Company, this Lister Greg dropped it off for us. So Matt, what were your thoughts on this Belgian style golden ale? It's got all the Belgian flavors, man. It's got all that Belgian yeasty goodness going on. It's got the florals like some of that banana floralness or fruitiness, I guess is what you pick up on? Some of those Belgian spices too, like, is that like, is that clove that I'm tasting? Like, yeah, it's like clove peppery, coriander kind of, like, yeah, it makes you think of like a Christmas ham. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, for me, the Belgian beers are so unique, right? And they really have their own vibe going on. And so a lot of US breweries have really taken to making Belgian style beers, and they do a great job. Like, this is on par with a lot of the actual Belgian style golden beers I've had. I could do Vell from, yeah, from Belgian brewers, if not better, right? Left. Yeah. Yeah, let's see some of those actual Europeans. And so to me, these kinds of beers, they're kind of like light beers, but they have like way, a ton more flavor, right? So if you're saying, listen, I want, they kind of punch above their weight class when it comes to the flavors that they're packing. If you're saying, listen, I want a beer that's not too heavy, not too intense, but I want a lot of flavor to go along with it, a Belgian style golden is like a great choice for you. Yeah, totally. Yeah, if you're looking for a lot of flavor, but not a dark beer, right? If you like all those flavors, but not toasty, chocolatey coffee notes, and if you're looking for more of that fruit without a bunch of actual fruit adjuncts, that's a good way to think about it. A little bit brighter, you know? Yeah, absolutely. And thanks again to Greg for donating this one to the podcast. And yeah, we didn't specifically mention you're talking about how this is a US brewery. They're out in California for Bragg to be precise. I feel like I don't think we've ever had North Coast brews here on the show. Unless we've had old Rasputin, which I feel like is that North Coast? I think that's their big beauty. Oh, no way. Uh huh. Well, if we haven't had that one on the show, we need to do that again here soon. I know we've enjoyed it before, but maybe not on the show. Yeah. All right. So that is going to be it for this episode. You can find some of the different resources we mentioned during this episode up in our show notes at how to money.com. Actually, one resource I just remembered that we didn't share. We've mentioned, I think student loan planners, student loan repayment calculator. But I saw that the, the federal government actually has one as well. So we'll make sure to link to that in the show notes, add that to the resources page. Specifically, if you try to figure out how student loan repayments restarting, how that's going to impact your specific payment, we will link to that. And if you have a lifestyle or a home renovation question, uh, this whole house style for us, send us a voice mail. We would love to take that question here on the podcast. My answer always tear it down to the studs or just put some wallpaper on it covers a multitude of sins. Yeah. But that's going to be it for this one, buddy. Until next time, best friends out and best friends out. Everdance wise, we have personally no evidence. In 1995, Detective Tony Richardson was trying to figure out who killed a fellow officer. The case comes down to who is believed and who is ignored. Oh my goodness, we did connect to Anderson, man. I'm Beth Shelburn from Lava for Good Podcasts. This is Ear Witness. Listen to Ear Witness on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes the pop culture we love just teens hits differently in retrospect. Maybe it's a tabloid story we couldn't get enough of or an illicit student teacher relationship on our favorite show. 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