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Dressing. Dressing. Oh, French dressing. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's good. I'm AJ Jacobs, and my current obsession is Puzzles. And that has given birth to my new podcast, The Puzzler. Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly. This is fun. You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to The Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marissa Thalberg. And I'm Steven Wolf-Pedetta. Come join us for our podcast brand new. So what's really new about brand new? Well, Steven and I are not only longtime C-suite executives, we're friends. Because of that, we've got a lot to say about tech entertainment, advertising, media, and marketing, what we call teen. It's real talk from the inside, personal talk too, and it's meant for everyone rising in business or just interested in it. Just look for the brand new podcast wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation you won't want to miss. Welcome to Office Hours, where we sit down with the chief executives, shaping the world. I'm Mike Stive, and today my friends, we are sitting down with someone I have admired my entire career. I'm pioneering media and technology who has created brands and companies that have defined my generation, Bob Pittman, CEO of iHeart Media. You know, I think Brian the best advice is don't listen to anybody else. And office hours with Mike Stive, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready to be inspired? I am polling with the host of Eating Wall Broke Podcasts. Step into a world where I sit down to budget meals created by self-made entrepreneurs, influencers and celebrities. Together, we revisit the very dishes that fueled their journey from humble beginnings. Every Thursday, listen to Eating Wall Broke on the Black Effect podcast network iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. The Black Effect podcast network is brought to you by Uber, earn like a boss at uber.com slash boss. Welcome to Had a Money, I'm Joel, and I am Matt, and today we're talking family first Entrepreneurship with Steve Chu. Our guest today, he might be considered a serial entrepreneur, right? And then the success of that site led to a blog, and once that was making some serious money, he created an online course. And then the success of that led to a podcast and a conference, and I think today he's in the process of launching a couple more businesses. I will be honest, this sounds a bit overwhelming to me personally, but what is important to note is that Steve Chu's goal isn't to simply grow, to scale, to maximize the revenue instead. He is interested in businesses that allow him to achieve his goals, and in his case, to create businesses that are family first. And even though that is the name of his book, family first Entrepreneurship, Steve is really just writing about how regular folks can achieve financial freedom without sacrificing what matters the most to them. So we're going to be talking about that today, and we're going to discuss why everyone out there should consider entrepreneurship, how to figure out what kind of business to start, marketing that business, and the things that hold folks back, we're going to be talking about all that, plus plenty more today, Steve, thank you for joining us on the podcast. I am happy to be here. You know what's funny is I don't actually consider myself a serial entrepreneur. No, okay. I basically have two things. I got the online store, and I got the content side of the business. Okay. That's exactly what a serial entrepreneur would say, Steve, they would downplay all their endeavors. I'm going to thank you for testing much, but we'll give them the specifics. The first question that we ask. I don't have a problem. Right? Exactly. I can stop anytime I want. That's just your perception. Okay. Okay, man. But the first question we ask everyone who comes on the show, Matt and I always splurge on craft beer while still saving and investing for the future, trying to be smart on both ends, living life in the here and now while also thinking about tomorrow. What's that for you? What do you splurge on currently that some people might think is a little bit crazy? The only thing I splurge on really is NBA Finals games, and I just been lucky, like the warriors have just been really good for these past, I don't know, seven or eight years. So I've heard that. I go to the playoffs, I go to the finals, and I spend a lot of money, like my friends are like, what are you crazy? But you know, it's fun. It's my only splurge. You're a man named Stephen Curry who I hear is very good with the basketball. That's my brother. So I know nothing about basketball, but I do see celebrities and the fancy folks sitting on court side. Is that you? Are you feeling the sweat? Are they falling into your lap? That kind of thing? So that's beyond my budget. So those court side seats are like 30 grand. I usually invest around seven, which is usually good for like the fourth or fifth row. Okay. Well, that's still really doing close though, fourth or fifth row. I will say, Matt and I, we splurged on an MLS final game, but it's such an inferior sport that you can get tickets to that for $180. I think so. It's just a big difference in quality, and that's I think that's why it's so much cheaper. Well, Steve, can you, I'm curious about your, your humble origins. One time I heard you say that when you were referring to your childhood that you started studying for the SAT in fourth grade. So I feel like that's indicative, maybe, of just something interesting going on behind the scenes in childhood. Why were you studying for this, like most kids don't even study. They just show up and take it. So why are you studying it in elementary school? I mean, it wasn't by choice. I mean, it's not much of a go-getter. No, no, my parents actually made me do that, and the problem I had was my brother. He's pretty much a genius. He took the SATs, I believe in sixth grade, and I think his first score that he got was like 13 something. Oh my gosh. Goodness. And then he eventually got 1550, and yeah, I don't know. My parents just wanted me to study for it because back in the day it mattered a lot more for college. Sure. And oh, here's the real reason why I started so early. It's because they wanted me to qualify for this nerd camp, and in order to qualify for that, you had to break 1,000, I believe, in sixth grade. Okay. All right. Well, I like that there is a more immediate goal for you to progressively get better and better at the SAT every single year. Did you and I've gone to nerd camp and if so, how was it? I did. I went to nerd camp. I went to nerd camp. Come on, guys. Come on. No, it ended up being a great experience because I got to say, like, I was kind of cocky as a kid, because of my parents, I was always way ahead of everyone else. But that nerd camp was like the first time where I was like probably the dumbest person at that camp. So Steve, let's kind of, I mean, we're going to be discussing entrepreneurship this entire episode, but just kind of quickly here, like what is the biggest selling point of entrepreneurship? You know, like if you were talking to someone who just had a standard normal W2 job, what would you say to convince them to consider at least starting their own thing? I mean, really people start businesses for freedom, you know, it's funny. When I was in college, you know, when you're in college, you have the best life. You have no responsibilities. You just have to study, do whatever you want. And I remember when I was about to graduate, I was like, wait, so now I got to go into this office 40 hours a week, and then it only get weekends off. And I think most people just don't want to be working 40 hours a week. They want, they want to have options and really that's the appeal of entrepreneurship. Yeah. No, I think you're right. It's interesting. People have different reasons for different things. I was listening to Walter Isaacson being interviewed. He wrote the new Elon Musk biography, and he's talking about the thing that helps you to succeed in Elon Musk world is just is not having other priorities in life, basically, not wanting balance, not wanting freedom, just wanting to put, you know, be an interplanetary species and put people on Mars. And so you're saying, well, the reason there are some people who are that dedicated to their work, but if you want balance, if you want freedom, then entrepreneurship is, is there out to go? I mean, there's no such thing as balance. I don't know how far you guys got in my book, but I talk about the four burners theory, which states that your, your life is basically dictated by four burners. So you got family, you got health, you got business and friends, right? In order to do one thing, well, you got to turn off at least one of those burners. In order to do something really well, you turn off two. And if you're like Elon Musk, you turn off all of them except for the work burner, right? So I mean, so basically the theory is about priorities. You can't do it all. So you really got to choose what you want to be good at. Well, as much of a proponent of starting your business as you are an entrepreneur, you talk about the lies of hustle in your book, right? Like there's a lot of folks out there and they're like, you got to get after you got a grind. And a lot of folks kind of wear it almost as a badge of honor. And that's kind of the opposite approach of how it is that you like to approach entrepreneurship. You know, the thing is, and this is one of the reasons why I wrote the book. It's because if you look at all the business books out there and maybe all the videos that you see about entrepreneurship, they're all written by single dudes, right? I mean, to be frank, I mean, they can work 60 hours a week, but I got a family. You guys got lots of kids. I actually want to see my wife. I actually want to see my kids. So there had to be a different way. And that's the way, basically, I run my businesses and I can't tell you how many people that I've interviewed on my podcast that have gotten divorced over their business. And it's hard, right? And I think the problem is, and this happened to me, actually, too, when you start making money that you're not used to making, you start getting this fever and you just start wanting to make more and more money. And I was setting these ridiculous goals for our business where we try to grow like 50 percent. And then once we hit that goal, I'd move the gold posts again. Pretty soon, I was driving my wife crazy. And then one day she came to me and she broke down and she said, Hey, why are we doing all this? I mean, we don't even spend a fraction of what we make. Why are we killing ourselves to meet this ridiculous goal that you've been setting? And that's when I came to the revelation and kind of got out of that fever and realized why we started our businesses in the first place, which was to hang out with the kids. Oh, man. Isn't that the thing like that rudder can get off slightly? And over a few months or a few years even, you're aiming for the wrong thing. And that sounds like a conversation. It sounds like I'm glad you responded that way because there's a lot of people who would say, to make more money, duh. But yeah, when your target, when your aim is off, you're going to be moving in the wrong direction. And I want to dive just a little bit deeper on the foreburner thing because you talk about that. And it is so interesting. There's like, how do you suggest people then if you're like, you see how successful somebody like Elon Musk is? But most people don't realize and don't see the effort, the grind, the lack of interpersonal relationships that someone has to go through in order to reach those heights. So how have you thought about which burners to turn on and turn off and are you constantly adjusting those? Like, what does that look like in your life? I mean, realistically, all the burners are constantly being adjusted. I mean, if you think back to when we first started our first e-commerce store, which was over at Bumblebee Linnons, we basically turned off the friend and the health burner to get up and running pretty quick. We weren't hanging out and then I was eating like crap. I was really at a shape. But hey, you know, we were spending all of our time on the business and that's why I did so well in that first year and that's why it eventually became a seven figure business. Here's the other thing about the burners that they're all not quite independent. Like if your health burners up, then you got a lot more energy to devote to the other burners. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You talked about that in your book. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like a foundation in order to succeed in a turbo booster for the others, huh? Yeah. I didn't discover this until much, much later. In fact, so I went low-carb in 2014. I lost about 35, 40 pounds, got a six pack and all of a sudden, like, I don't get tired anymore. Like I have energy to go the entire day. I thought you were going to say that's when you started male modeling. No. Okay. So I don't have the six pack anymore. It's impossible to maintain that thing. Let me tell you. It was just purely a vanity thing that I just wanted to say I had, took a couple photos and that was that. But I still eat correctly and I make sure I exercise two to three times a week and I feel great. Never had food coma or anything like that. I love it. Yeah. Okay. So let's rewind the clock a little bit too. So you kind of jumped to where you got to a breaking point with you and your wife with the business, Mumblebee linens. But take us back in time a little bit, take us to when it was that you decided to kind of launch into that. I mean, you basically discussed it was, again, it's sort of your wife having a moment where she said she didn't, she didn't want to keep her job anymore and she had a pretty sizeable income. Can you talk about that event and how that led you down the path of entrepreneurship? Yeah. So that was back in 2006, I want to say. And you know, here's the thing. Like I grew up, my parents are first generation, her parents are first generation. We didn't see her parents much. My parents basically came here with nothing. So I used to play club volleyball. I used to play volleyball for the school and guess what? My parents were never really there on the sidelines watching me and my friends parents were and I, you know, you know, I didn't blame them, but I always wish that they were there. And so when my wife told me she was going to quit, I was like, hey, I'm fully on board with that decision because I think we need to be more present in our kids' lives. Where we live in the Silicon Valley, it is expensive. You pretty much need two incomes in order to get a good house and a good school district. And if she was going to quit, she was making six figures at the time working for a fortune 500 company. We basically needed another income. And so that's basically how this whole thing got started. Okay. So you're like, it's basically this, hey, my wife wants to stay home. I got to figure out a way to pull this off. And then how did that translate to starting a linens company to jam like a history in that space? Did you have like some proprietary knowledge or what was like, oh, yeah, this is, this is the small business to start. So the only history we had was when my wife and I got married in 2003, you got to understand this about my wife. She's a cryer. And usually it's tears to joy sometimes to make her cry for non-joy reasons. At our wedding, she knew she was going to cry. We spent all this money on photography, like I think the whole wedding industry is just way overpriced. And she didn't want to be seen in the photos, drawing her tears, you know, with the tissue, she wanted to be classy with a handkerchief. And so we looked all over the place in the US, couldn't find any, finally found this place in China. It was a factory, essentially. And we had to buy a bunch. So we bought a couple hundred, which was the minimum order quantity. And we used maybe a handful of them. And then just listed the rest on eBay and they sold like hotcakes. So when it came time to start that business, you know, in 2006, 2007, we got back in touch with that factory. Nice. Yeah. So that kicked it all off. And we're going to spend more of the episode talking about how folks can essentially launch their own businesses. But, you know, this is the one that y'all started. It sounds so serendipitous, by the way, wouldn't you say that way, like it's just kind of happening to them. Yeah, it sounds some extra isn't. Oh, wow. What a great business. Well, there's more to that. It doesn't like our first choice, actually. Our first choice was actually starting at Kumon. Do you guys have Kumon's over in? Oh, yeah. The learning center, yeah. Yeah. Because that's right up my alley, right? SAT's fourth grade. Yeah, I can drink. Exactly. It's like your own proprietary nerd camp for kids. Exactly. But it turns out it would have cost us about 350 to 400,000 to open one of those. And then we looked at like other things, like boba stores and whatnot and it just required so much capital. Yeah, and then we looked at it for a few hours with our store and it really only, we invested $630 to start that thing. Exactly. Well, and that's one of the things you addressed in your book. You talk about how, truly, like a lot of folks when they think about entrepreneurs, they think, oh, I've got to bet the farm. I've got to go big or go home. You quit your day job. You go all in on a new idea. But talk to us about how you were able to gradually cut back at your nine to five as you were able to ramp up your online e-commerce site. That was one of the ways that you were able to mitigate that some of that risk. I mean, to be honest with you, it's even easier today. You don't need a lot of money to start any business today, thanks to the internet. And thanks to AI now, actually, even more, that's like the next generation. So we started everything, like back in the beginning, we could have run our business for like maybe $30 a month. There's zero risk, and we just went in with the attitude, like, hey, let's just give this a try. If it works great. You can always go back to work in case things get really bad. And I'm going to keep my job. And what ended up happening is the business started taking off. And then I launched my wife, Quitter Job, which is basically a journal of our business. I launched that in 2009. That started making money, I think, around 2011. And then I started thinking to myself, hey, you know, I really liked my job. That was the difference. Like, I was an engineer. It's pretty much what I wanted to be all my life. And I had my dream job designing microprocessors alongside of a whole bunch of really smart people. So I actually didn't want to leave my job. But at some point, we were making so much money with the businesses that it didn't really make sense for me to be there five days a week. Like, I wanted to be there with the kids too. So I dropped down to four days. I dropped down the three days, I dropped down to two days, and then finally I was just there once a week. And I had those sounds like the dream. Yeah. Well, it was because I still got to hang out. But the only reason I had that luxury was because I was one of three people that designed the main product I was making the bulk of the money for the company. So I was essentially there as an insurance policy. Problem is, is my big boss eventually left, and you boss came in, brought me into their office, and was like, hey, what exactly do you do here one day a week? You had an office-based moment where they're bringing you in. I boost them around. Of everyone around me. Come on. And I was like, I'm going to be stripped with you. I don't do anything, but I'm here in case anything breaks or to attend meetings and advise. And then he was like, hey, either work here for at least three or four days or you're out. And so I left. And sometimes it gets to that kind of ultimate point in the process. And that's the goal, right? Is for the ramp up for the line to keep going up and to the right when it comes to the revenue that your business is generating so that you can eventually take off and go to that full time. We want to talk to you more, Steve, about specifically like which business ideas to bet on and how to get started. So we've got some more questions for you on that front. We'll get to those right after this. Something about Mary Poppins? Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly. Oh, man. This is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs, and I am an author and a journalist, and I tend to get obsessed with stuff. And my current obsession is Puzzles. And that has given birth to my new podcast, The Puzzler, Dressing, Dressing, Frick's dressing. Exactly. That's good, that's good. We are living in the golden age of Puzzles. And now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears for 10 minutes or less. Every day on the Puzzler, short and sweet. I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is, and now I definitely know what this is. This is so weird. This is fun. Let's try this one. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's awful, and I should have seen it coming. Hi, I'm Marissa Fallberg. And I'm Steven Wolfededa, and we want to invite you to join us for a new podcast for Ann Nue. So what's actually new about brand new? Well, Steven and I are not only working C-suite executives, we're friends. My friend Marissa is actually one of the most influential chief marketing officers in the world. And hey, Steven has a story career across finance, tech, and multicultural entertainment. Because of that, we've got a lot to say about the world of tech and entertainment, advertising media and marketing, what we actually call teen. We always adore each other, but don't always agree with each other, and that's part of the fun. It's real talk from the inside, sometimes personal talk too, and it's meant for everyone, rising in business, or just interested in it. In each episode, we give our hot takes on hot topics, and always answer what's on your minds too. Just look for the brand new podcast on the iHeart Podcast Network, or wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation that you won't want to miss. Welcome to Office Hours, where we sit down with the chief executives, shaping the world. I'm Mike Steib, and today my friends, we are sitting down with someone I have admired my entire career, a pioneer in media and technology who has created brands and companies that have defined my generation, Bob Pittman, CEO of iHeart Media. Bob, MTV was a revolution, elevating music videos to the top of our culture. What was the origin of the idea? I done a show in the 1970s called Owl Tracks, and we've begun playing around with these video clips, these video versions of songs, and we were doing music news and information. We got a meeting with Steve Ross, who is the CEO of Warner and Jim Robinson, who is the CEO of American Express, and I pitched hard. Let's do a video radio station, and that was the way we got started. We listened to Office Hours with Mike Steib, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready to be inspired? I am Colleen with the host of Eating Wild Bro's Talk. Step into a world where I sit down to budget meals created by self-made entrepreneurs, influencers, and celebrities. Together, we revisit the very dishes that fueled their journey from humble beginnings. Every Thursday, tune in to catch your favorite icons like Mario, Blamin' Ro, and a cupcake millionaire, Minion, Francois. Listen to the untold stories beyond the limelight. Tales of sacrifices, audacious leaps, nights spent wide awake, and the shadow of homelessness they conquered on their rise to fame and prosperity. Every Thursday, listen to Eating Wild Broke on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is brought to you by Uber, earned like a boss at uber.com slash boss. Alright, we are back from the break, talking with Steve Chu, and Steve, we're going to get a little, we kind of talk through your story, kind of how it is you view entrepreneurship at a high level, but we're going to get maybe a little more practical, and hopefully we can leave a lot of listeners out there with some ideas, maybe with some takeaways, and I think a lot of folks might be wondering how outside of the box that they could potentially get with a business idea, right? Because it feels like the sky might be the limit when it comes to just some of the different brainstorming that they might do, but how do you know if there's someone out there in their listening, and they're like, man, this is a good idea, or this is a weird, crazy idea. Like, is there a way that you help folks to distinguish whether an idea is just crazy, or if it's just crazy good? I mean, are we talking about physical products here, or content? Dealers' choice. Alright, well, let's just start with physical products, because that's something easy to understand, right? You sell something you get money for. Alright, so these days, you can pretty much tell what anything sells for and how much they're making. There are tools such as Jungle Scout that will literally tell you how much every single listing on Amazon is making, right? So there's really very few, there's very few mysteries now in terms of how much you could potentially make given a product. Just look it up on Amazon, use Jungle Scout, it'll tell you. Now, the other thing is, I got students in my class that sometimes they tell me they're going to launch something and I'm like, dude, that's really saturated. It's going to be a very hard road, but then they succeed. And the thing to realize here is that if you're good at selling something, you can pretty much sell anything. And you got to realize this, when you're selling anything online, chances are it's already a commodity. Like, there's very few inventions being sold. Like heck, we sell handkerchiefs, we sell towels, we sell linens, right? No one's really invented that anything in that industry for a very long time. So what you got to realize is if you're trying to sell something, it's really about the emotions that you can evoke and a customer to get them to buy. Do you guys, have you ever heard of Dr. Squatch? No. Is that a soap? Yes. It's a men's soap. And I don't know about you guys, but I don't care about soap, I just use whatever's in the bathroom. So, it's really hard to sell soap to a guy's market. But if you watch their commercials, you'll notice that there's always a female in the picture and she's always like smelling the guy going, oh my god, you smell so good, I want to jump you right now. So they're not really selling the soap, but essentially they're selling sex. And that's why they became this $100 million company. It's about the emotions that you evoke. And there's a whole bunch of emotions that you can evoke to get someone to buy something. And sex just happens to be one of them. Yeah. Talk about the other emotions because there are other ways which you can make a product stand apart. Not necessarily. And that's what Coke's doing, right? Coca-Cola. It's the response from the sip of Coke in the commercial and you're like, yeah, that does look refreshing. But clearly it's not like quenching your thirst. That's not what Coke's there to do, but they're selling kind of a lifestyle, a way of being. And that's what a lot of the most successful brands do, right? Technically, this is called the life force eight, which by the way, sounds like some indie band. But yeah, it's some of these different ways that you're able to appeal to folks. Yeah, anything that shows that you're enjoying life or you're keeping up with the Joneses like your high class or anything that helps you protect your loved ones. I mean, there's a number of different emotions that you can evoke. And if you can do that, you can make someone buy anything. It makes me think like my daughter recently bought, used her own money to buy a really expensive water bottle, a Stanley water bottle. And I didn't realize these were things. Glated water cup. And now I look around. I see like all the ladies around here drinking out of Stanley water bottles. They're $45 a piece. And it's like, maybe you get a water bottle for $1.50. But for some reason, these evoke something and they've somehow, in their marketing, they've gotten enough people in on the expensive water bottle game that it's kind of starting to trickle down into other places. It's almost like selling itself. I mean, just look at the iPhone. I'm an Android guy. And so whatever I look at the iPhone, I'm like, this is just way over price for what you get. They're always behind in terms of technology. But they do these little things like when my friend and iPhone messages me, it's not green or whatever call it, you know. And so I'm like this outcast. You're a pro ISD. Exactly. Right. And so these are just things that Apple, Apple's like phenomenal at marketing. I remember when they released the iPad and then Google released their tablet. Google was touting features like processor speed and battery life and all this stuff. Apple comes out with this commercial where like these little kids create this video for grandpa. Oh, I totally remember that. Yeah. Grandma had passed away and they put together this really good skit. And you know, a lot of people start tearing up at the end of that video. Well, it's like public's commercials during the holidays, they make like they make you cry. It's not about, hey, look, we got the best selection at the lowest prices. It's all about shopping as a pleasure. And it's just a different way of selling a product in the way to market it, way to stand out. Yeah. Steve. So as folks are kind of brainstorming and thinking through what it is, like you've got an individual and maybe they're not thinking products. They're just thinking about like, I just want to do something for myself. In your book, you warn against chasing things, chasing businesses that we think are going to make us happy. What role do you think passion should play when it comes to starting up a side business? I mean, I'm a practical guy and when I think of the word passion, I think of like, you know, when you first start dating and you know, you're really interested in this girl or whatnot, but you know, that might fade after a while. But if you have some sort of special skill or knowledge or advantage, you should always take advantage of that first when it comes to business, right? I mean, I have students in my class that they're having problems figuring out what to sell. And then, you know, in casual conversation, it'll come up, oh, by the way, did I mention that my wife is a chiropractor? Like this guy wanted to sell back pillows and I'm like, dude, that's really competitive and whatnot. And then he mentions his wife's chiropractor and like, she's known for this. I'm like, oh my God. Yeah. Totally so. This is your unfair advantage that you have. Exactly. Exactly. So like different businesses make sense for different folks based on kind of their life experience, their expertise, their passion, like it's a combination of all of those different things, right? And you have to kind of what would you say put all those together to figure out maybe the best route forward for you? I mean, passion fades. I think that's the problem. I mean, you look at us. We sell handkerchiefs. Definitely not my first choice. I'm not really in the hankies, but over the years, I've actually come to know the industry really well. And I'm very passionate about the business because once you start making money, you'll get all excited over, you know, just the business aspects. Mm-hmm. A lot of times you call these side bets, right? It's something that you are working on while you are maintaining your nine to five in order to pay the bills, but you are exploring. You're following your curiosity and essentially you talk about how folks oftentimes will end up falling into whatever side business that they happen to start and ends up being successful. I guess I'm thinking of specifically, you mentioned a gamer and he's just like, man, all I do is I work, I come home, I eat, I play video games for a few hours, and then I'm not going to need anything, you know, and then you just start asking him questions about his gaming specifically. Can you share that story? Yeah. I mean, essentially, I mean, I deal with a lot of people who are stuck deciding what they want to do. And sometimes it's just right under your nose. So yeah, just like you said, I asked him what he did during the day, what he was good at, and he's like, I'm not good at anything. Yeah. That's impossible, man. That's impossible. And so when we got to this game that he played, like because I, you know, I gave him a little bit. So I asked him what he was playing, and he got all excited and animated. I'm like, okay, what you got to do is just document like your excitement for the game. And he ended up creating this YouTube channel, and the last time I checked it had thousands of subscribers. And you know, incidentally, that's, that's like how Twitch got started, right? People wind up following gamers and watching play, and so there's a totally a market for this stuff. All right. So sometimes I, we talked about like physical products a lot. What about you mentioned creating other things that you've started a blog as well? And they're people have made businesses specifically launched on social media, you know, sites like Instagram, TikTok, whatever. You can have a fully fledged business, literally most of it based all around social media. So what are your thoughts like how, how do you help people think about whether or not they should be getting into the physical product game or getting into kind of the online content game? Yeah. So when someone asks me that question, I always say, hey, you know, it really just depends on your time frame for making money. Like if you want to make money sooner rather than later, it's always easier to sell a physical product because, you know, the product kind of stands on its own, right? So I would say if you want to make money within a year, physical products is probably good. If you don't have the budget for physical products, then content is great. If you have a runway of let's say two or three years, nothing I ever did in the content space made me money less than I would say two years because it takes time to build an audience. But once you do build that audience and you guys can probably attest to this for your podcast, the money just goes exponential after a while. So e-commerce ramps up pretty quickly, but you know, it kind of goes up into the right, but content is like flat and then all of a sudden it hockey sticks up in terms of revenue. So like back in your early blogging days, you were writing, writing, writing, not seeing much in return from like a monetary perspective. What was it like and how did you turn on kind of the cash flow spigot from that website? Yeah, I mean, honestly, I don't think I made any money for two years or anything significant. And the way you got to view content is you got to grind through it. Like I just put myself on a schedule where I just wrote one blog post a week. And after a while, you'll know when it's time because when I started writing about my e-commerce store, everyone started asking me for a class, right? Now I didn't want to do a class, but people just kept asking for and asking for it. And finally I said, okay, fine. I don't have any content right now. But if you guys pay me 300 bucks and if I sign up, you know, 10 people, I'll launch this class. And then 35 people signed up and I was like, oh man, okay, I guess I got to start this class. And I've been running it now for over a decade and it's been very lucrative for me. I'm very happy that I did it. So that was one way that I monetized a different way was, you know, I use a whole bunch of products in my store and almost all these products, they have an affiliate program. And I'm just recommending out the existing products that I use to run my online store. And so it's a win-win. And one of the things you did there that you mentioned was the fact that you kind of asked your audience what they wanted and they were telling you what they wanted. And then you had to deliver on that. And it's just like you were assessing the demand before you went through the trouble of creating the product. Is that kind of a recipe that others can follow, whether we're talking about physical products or whether we're talking about how to interact with your audience to kind of get that idea of how much demand there is in the marketplace before you go through the trouble of creating the thing? I mean, you always want to validate. So we already talked about how I did it for my class. And in fact, I didn't even ask them what they wanted. They just kept telling me what they wanted. It was driving me nuts. On the physical product side, there's things that you can do. So we already mentioned Jungle Scout. You can see, you know, how much every listing on Amazon is making. But if you're still a little bit squeamish about launching a product, there are these services where you can literally just create a product photo of potentially what you want to sell and then pit it up against existing Amazon listings, send it a poll of just random Amazon shoppers. And they'll tell you which one they would buy out of those different images and product descriptions. So you can get a pretty good idea of whether you're going to succeed before you even get started. That's great specifically from a product standpoint. But as you're thinking about services and maybe content, like some folks, they specifically started business because they're able to just simply identify a problem. And then they are able to provide a solution. But like what you're talking about here is niching down. And oftentimes, you can focus on a specific customer base and then figure out what it is that they need. Like are those two approaches at odds with each other? Because on one hand, it seems like you're starting with the problem. But then with the other approaches, sounds like you are starting with a customer base. So are those at odds or are they essentially kind of different sides of the same coin? I really just think it depends on which marketplace. So everything I mentioned on the physical product side was regarding Jungle Scott. That's just for like the Amazon marketplace because you can't really, you know, there's no real content involved with Amazon and pretty much the picture sells, right? If this is your own website, however, then yes, what you just said is absolutely true. You need to find a group of people, a small group of people that will be interested in your products and then market that product to that particular individual. So I guess the strategy just changes depending on where you're selling and what you're trying to do. Talk to me about pricing because when you're creating an online course, for instance, you said what 300 bucks, I think is what you're going to charge and then 35 people signed up. How did you come up with that number? And physical products, it might even be a little bit easier. You can see your competition. But even in that realm, right? No one thought that $150 leggings from Lululemon, people were going to buy those things because hey, I can get something really similar, a knockoff on Amazon for 20. So how do you think through pricing of your product or your service? Yeah. So when it comes to products, I always say just target the high end because just running the business is so much easier. And these days you pretty much have to have your own brand because of Amazon, like a whole bunch of these manufacturers are just throw up stuff on Amazon, everything looks the same over there. So you got to have your own brand, you got to have a strong value prop. And if you can target the high end that just makes everything easier, customer service, it makes advertising easier and whatnot. Yeah. I mean, yeah, if you're going for the cheapest, absolute price, I mean, that's the race to the bottom. And you, I mean, you're virtually never going to win when it comes to scale against some of these larger or even if you do win, you lose by winning. Yeah. So you might make a little bit of money in the beginning, but eventually other competitors will hop on and just a race to the bottom unless you have a brand and a value prop. Yeah. Right. And a brand isn't established overnight. I mean, the way you establish a brand is you bring people back to your content over and over and over again until you become kind of ingrained in their mind. Yeah. It's a lot of brands that I follow. And I'll just buy no matter what. So for example, tie laundry detergent, I'll buy tie it even though there's like this detergent at the supermarket, that's like one third the price. Yeah. It's just because you have an affinity for the brand. The store that they've told over time is you essentially you just have an allegiance to that brand. Essentially. Yeah. Because I mean, why experiment when I already have something that I like? Well, it's funny because I've developed something similar to like a men's clothing seller online. It's like, man, you get men's clothes anywhere. But there's this one place and they just curate so well. And so like I really, that's my one-stop shop now for when I'm getting something new in my closet. But their stuff is definitely, it's pricey or I'm looking for sales. But it's interesting how that can be the case. They're also like, you could go buy these clothes at the individual product maker sites. But I always find myself going back to this one website because they're doing such a good job curating everything. Yeah. And a lot of times the personality and this might not be the case for you, but sometimes it's the personality of the curator that matters too. Sure. Yeah. There are these guys I follow on YouTube for tennis because it's a sport I really like. And I basically follow all the recommendations. A lot of times I think it's almost like a combination of both things, right? Like, I guess so far we've been talking about creating a product or creating content. But as I think about it, you're kind of talking about tide or jewelry you're talking about the men's site. Like I can think of a couple of brands where the reason that I think and I kind of know that they're the best is because of the fact that they are also creating content to kind of go alongside the product. And so they like, that's just a part of their marketing story. But it truly is content like I am learning things and it just so happens that they have products that help me to solve the problems that they're presenting. But Steve, we have a couple more questions that we're going to get to here after the break. We're going to, I guess, discuss some of the things that hold folks back as entrepreneurs. And we also want to know what keeps you going even though you have found such amazing success. We'll get to all that more right after this. Something about Mary Poppins. Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly. Oh, man, this is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff. And my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my new podcast, The Puzzler Dressing. Bossing. Oh, French dressing. Exactly. Oh, that's good. That's good. We are living in the golden age of puzzles. And now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears for 10 minutes or less every day on the puzzle or short and sweet. I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is. And now I definitely know what this is. This is so weird. This is fun. Let's try this one. Listen to The Puzzler every day on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. That's awful and I should have seen it coming. Hi, I'm Marissa Fallberg and I'm Stephen Wolfed Ada. We want to invite you to join us for a new podcast for Ann knew. So what's actually new about brand new? Well, Stephen and I are not only working C-suite executives, we're friends. My friend Marissa is actually one of the most influential chief marketing officers in the world. And hey, Stephen has a story career across finance, tech and multicultural entertainment. Because of that, we've got a lot to say about the world of tech, entertainment, advertising, median marketing, what we actually call team. We always adore each other but don't always agree with each other and that's part of the fun. It's real talk from the inside, sometimes personal talk too. And it's meant for everyone, rising in business, or just interested in it. In each episode, we give our hot takes on hot topics and always answer what's on your minds too. Just look for the brand new podcast on the iHeart Podcast Network or wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation that you won't want to miss. Welcome to Office Hours where we sit down with the chief executives, shaping the world. I'm Mike Steib and today my friends, we are sitting down with someone I have admired my entire career. Pioneer and media and technology who has created brands and companies that have defined my generation, Bob Pittman, CEO of iHeart Media. Bob MTV was a revolution, elevating music videos to the top of our culture. What was the origin of the idea? I done a show in the 1970s called Owl Tracks and we've begun playing around with these video clips, these video versions of songs and we were doing music news and information. We got a meeting with Steve Ross who is the CEO of Warner and Jim Robinson who is the CEO of American Express and I pitched hard. Let's do a video radio station and that was the way we got started. Listen to Office Hours with Mike Steib on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready to be inspired? I am Colleen Witt, the host of Eating Wild Bro Tog. Step into a world where I sit down to budget meals created by self-made entrepreneurs, influencers and celebrities. Together, we revisit the very dishes that fueled their journey from humble beginnings. Every Thursday, tune in to catch your favorite icons like Mario, Blamin' Row, and a cupcake millionaire Minion, Francois. Listen to the untold stories beyond the limelight. Tales of sacrifices, audacious leaps, night spent wide awake and the shadow of homelessness they conquered on their rise to fame and prosperity. Every Thursday, listen to Eating Wild Broke on the Black Effect Podcast Network iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast. The Black Effect Podcast Network is brought to you by Uber. Earn Like a Boss at uber.com slash boss. All right, we're back. We're still talking with Steve Chu. We're talking about entrepreneurship, but doing it in a way that allows you to keep the family first, not going overboard and sinking your whole ship, turning off all those other burners so that you can actually enjoy the reason you started the business in the first place. And Steve, you've given a lot of great tips already, but even when folks know the right things to do in order to launch a successful business, they can fail taking that first step. So how would you suggest people get over the fear of, oh, what if I'm not successful? Oh, what if I'm, you know, putting 500 bucks into this thing and it falls flat on the face? Or I spend six months even maybe working towards this goal, and it doesn't go anywhere. I mean, for most cases, the failure is entirely an ego thing, right? Because it really is so cheap to launch something these days. I can't imagine it's about the money for most people, I should say. It's really about your ego, right? Like when we were starting the handkerchief business, we had a lot of people going, oh, you know, how's your business doing? Kind of like in a derogatory manner. And basically making fun of you by asking how things are going. Exactly. And I knew that if I failed, you know, this would hurt my ego. I mean, I guess the easiest thing to do is just to play the, what's the worst that can happen game? Oh yeah. So so far business failed. I mean, my wife would just go back to work, right? I would keep my job, and that's the worst thing that could happen. Let's say we both lost our jobs, worst case scenario, I'd boom back in with my parents. I mean, that'd be really bad, but you know, it's not like I'm in danger of anything. And I think if most people play that game, they'll find that none of this stuff is really drastic. I think the hardest part for people not starting is really analysis paralysis. And whenever an engineer signs up for my course, I'm always like, oh, man, this is going to be tough. It's going to be tough because they're going to use all you nonstop wanting to analyze everything, dissect every possible scenario. Yeah. They want to know all the answers, whether it's guaranteed to be profitable and all that stuff. And that's kind of not the way it works. You know, you got to take a small leap of faith, a small risk, and it's just a matter of probabilities. And you know, if something doesn't work, you try something else. Yeah. One of the things you're getting at here too, or I wanted to touch on was you tell folks that they need to go ahead and start before they actually feel ready, because there are always going to be different obstacles, crop up excuses, other things that you can analyze. And it's real things. It's things that yes, technically could happen, but the likelihood of those things happening, who knows. But I think a lot of folks might find themselves in that position where they're thinking, oh, I am interested in pursuing this. Oh, this is something I want to, I do want to hang my own shingle, but yeah, that fear, I think it does hold them back a little bit. Here's a common one that I get all the time. They're like, hey, you know, what happens if someone knocks me off? Should I spend all this money, a lawyer to protect this? And I'm like, if you're getting knocked off, that's a good thing. That means you're selling a lot that someone wants to knock you off. And by then you'll have enough money to take care of this. No, that's good stuff. Okay, so how do we define success then? Part of the way you define success is by being able to not let the business take over your life, but it can also be difficult to know whether business is successful or not. It's like, oh, well, it feels mediocre success, right? That's where I feel like I'm at right now. And so I'm just not sure, like, am I on the right track? Is this something that I need to keep leaning into? Yeah. All right. So I always ask myself a couple questions when that happens. First one, and probably the most important one is, am I still learning, right? If I'm still learning and picking up skills, I'll probably continue to do it. The other thing is, you know, do I hate doing it? If I have that attitude, then I'm probably going to quit. Everyone's going to have different parameters, you know, for certain things, like if I feel like I'm actually doing good and I'm helping people, that might be enough for me to continue doing something. All right. So we talked about this right before we started recording. And you live in a really high cost of living area. And even though you don't necessarily, and it's Silicon Valley, right? So it's one of those places where, yeah, that's where the high paying jobs are for people in your former industry. So it makes sense that you were there in the beginning. But when your wife says, I want to quit my job and you're thinking, and especially once you get to the point where the new boss comes in and he says, Steve, we don't need you anymore if you're not going to, if you're not more committed and you piece out, you can totally save so much money by moving elsewhere. What is it that kept you in a really high cost of living area? Do you have to be there for your businesses, for that you operate solo now? Or is it just because family friends, like what keeps you rooted there? Yeah, I mean, it's the business can be run anywhere, right? That's not the problem. It's mainly family and friends. And then plus, you know, worst case scenario, this is back in the day when we first started our businesses. I could have just gone back to work as an engineer. I had a lot of contacts. My wife could have gotten easily gotten a job also. So it was a strategic move in that sense, right? And then, you know, I've talked to a lot of friends about this over the years and they're always like, Hey, you should never move just because of the money. Right? If you enjoy where you live, you like the weather. I mean, the weather here is fantastic. You guys are living through thunderstorms right now, right? The rumbles that you're hearing on our end, exactly. And I'm a pretty cheap guy. I don't spend that much money. So I don't, I mean, I could save a lot of money, but I'm not even really spending my money right now. So why not just enjoy where I'm at? Okay, I love that. What keeps you going then? Because at this point, you make, you've talked about this way more money than you could spend. You haven't really necessarily moved the goalpost where you're like, I just really want to Bugatti. Or I want three different, you know, second homes that I can go to on my private jet. You don't seem to care about that stuff. So what is it that keeps you grinding with the businesses that you have, which are, which are multiple, even though you're basically financially independent? Yeah, you know, just the way my mind works, I always have to be working on something, which is basically why I tell everyone I'm never going to retire because that sounds boring to me, right? Whenever we go on vacation, my wife actually likes lying by the beach or lying by the pool. I can actually only do that for like two hours. And then I got to go do something. And so, you know, what's nice now is I have the opportunity to choose what I want to do. So, you know, one year I might want to just do YouTube because I like making videos or I might want to explore the TikTok platform. I love podcasting. I wouldn't give that up for anything because I get to meet someone new every single week, right? So the freedom I have now basically allows me to pick and choose what interests me. Yeah, that's obviously an awesome place to be in, right? Or essentially like all these different aspects of your business is kind of like a, it's like playing in a sandbox. And you're like, oh, I think I want to go be here now. Kind of craft work on this, learn something along the way, meet somebody interesting. And that's, I mean, that's one of the massive benefits of being an entrepreneur is the ability to kind of focus on some of the different areas. Not only that you are skilled, but the different areas that interest you. Steve, okay, so I've got one last question I guess for you because you talk about, so you shared a little bit with, I guess your story early on with your folks being first gen, but essentially you didn't see a ton of them. But now I'm assuming your kids see a ton of you, right? Like you talk about how you don't miss any games, any games at all period, I think that your kids might have. Joel, like we've talked with a friend of ours and I'm curious your thoughts on this because he was saying that he thinks it's really important for his kids to see him working, right? Like him, in his case, pursuing something he's really excited about. And obviously, I'm sure your kids know that you have businesses and this is something that you find fulfilling. But I guess, do you think it's possible for some folks out there to maybe overly focus on, on family, essentially, to the detriment of maybe your own personal development or in the case of your ability to really chase after something and find fulfillment that way? Yeah, I've questioned whether like all the time we spend together is like, you know, is harming them. But on the flip side, I still have like my parents Asian blood in me. And so like they started businesses, you know, we've, my daughter's working on a course right now on how to sell an Etsy. And so we're filming and all that stuff. So they're working. That's awesome. They see me work and then they're doing their own thing. Well, it sounds like they're following in your footsteps too. And they're doing it in a way in which you get to work alongside them, which sounds really cool. Not just playing board games together, which is fun, which is fun. I love that part of it. But also like, hey, let's, you know, let's go down this path and, and let's see if the things that I enjoy, if you enjoy those things too. So well, Steve, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. Where can our listeners, where can people and how to money land to find out more about you and what you're up to? And, and obviously about your book too. Yeah. If you guys are interested in learning about e-commerce, the easiest way is to just sign up for my free mini course over at mywifequitterjob.com. If you guys are interested in checking out the book, that can be found over at the familyfirstentrepreneur.com. I'm actually still giving out over $690 in free bonuses. You'll get a free workshop on how to get started in e-commerce and a free two day workshop on how to get started making money with content. I also run an annual e-commerce conference called the seller summit. If you guys ever want to hang out in person, I also run a top 25 podcast called Mywifequitterjob. You should be able to find it on iTunes or wherever you listen to a podcast. And I'm also on YouTube and the channel is called Mywifequitterjob as well. So many irons in the fire, Steve. I love it. We will make sure to link to all of that, Steve. We really appreciate you joining us today. Thanks a lot, guys. All right, man. That was super fun talking with Steve who, yeah, you heard it at the end. It's like, what's up? He also does a lot of things. He has done a lot of things, which just shows how interested he is in a whole lot of different sorts of pursuits. But he's also done well in a bunch of those pursuits. So, yeah, I'm not a serial entrepreneur. Right. Exactly, Steve. He owned up to it. We totally believe you. But yeah, it's, and I love that he also says, you know what? This is fun to build these businesses. But it's not the end, I'll be all. So I don't know. What was your big takeaway from this combo? I like when he touched on ego. And I think for a lot of folks out there, I think there are a lot of folks in the position where they're thinking, I really want to kind of go do my own thing. But there, you know, there's that fear that's holding them back. And I what if I screw it up? What if I screw it up? And I do think that oftentimes, I think when you have gotten pretty good at your job, maybe your middle management or maybe you're even higher up on the on the food chain, you don't want to be perceived as a failure. And honestly, the more successful you get at your nine to five, I think the harder it is to be able to step back from that and to pursue something else that yes, might actually fail. Like you're only used to success. And so now failure feels even worse. Exactly. As opposed to like, I guess for me, I think back to when Kate and I started our photography company. And we had very little success up until that point. And now I realize I guess we kind of knew that at the time. Like, that's one of the things I remember that we telling each other, we said that what do we got to lose? Like, this is the time to do it. We were renting. We didn't have any debt. We didn't have any kids. We didn't even have any pets. Very few possessions. And so there was very little that was actually holding us, holding us back. But I guess hearing him talk about it helped me to realize how much of a blessing that is. But I like that he mentioned ego as well, because that he, he mentions that in his book. And we didn't touch on it, but I wanted to share it real quick. And how when it comes to an individual's desire to grow a business, to scale it that oftentimes folks call that impact, but how truly what that is is ego disguised. It's the desire for you as an individual to kind of like prove yourself that like, oh, I've got what it takes. Oh, we're a business that that breaks in a million dollars plus every year. And then eventually maybe it turns into 10 million because now you've got to essentially raise the bar. And how at the core of that oftentimes is ego. And you know, a lot of people in social media, two in that horror. Now we're a, I've got to say you're business. And it sounds so sexy. And you're like, oh, I'm, man, I'm not as cool as they are. Yeah. But you know, behind that facade, I guess it might not be exactly as they're making it appear. And that, I mean, that's in that the problem with social media. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. And I think for us, it's kind of like getting to the point where you just don't care anymore, right? Like, and oftentimes, and this is why it's family first entrepreneurs, like that's Steve's book. But I think a lot of times parents are able to identify that. Could you get to a point to where a lot of that ego doesn't matter? You're just trying to successfully create more like raise this human being to be a fully functioning adult, like Lacey Langford said in a previous episode. And it's difficult to essentially to kill that ego and to tell yourself that it doesn't matter anymore. But yeah, what was your big takeaway? I think mine was when he said that more money can create this like fever. And that's where he was when his wife came to him with that conversation saying like, hey, so we're doing great revenue-wise. Like we're making money. We've actually surpassed the goals that we had of making 60K a year. And then surpassing my income so that I could stay at home. So why are we like, but I hate this. Yeah. Like literally she was just like crying because she did not want to do it anymore. And we live pretty frugally. So why are we going this hard, Steve? And that was the light bulb moment for him that like family first entrepreneurship was the way forward. And I think it's true that as our income grows, as we're able to do more things with our money, more smart things even, right? It can create sort of like a fever in us where it starts to feel like money is the goal rather than the tool. So that's something we talk about a whole lot on the show because we want money. More money is a goal in some ways, right? But in other ways, money is just the tool to allow you to do so much of what you actually want to be doing with your life. And so it's always smart to go back to the drawing board, especially as let's say you have a much better year this year financially than you had in the prior two years or something like that. Well, don't let that feed this desire to continue to grow and grow and scale. Eat if that's not necessarily, you know, the underlying desire that you have if family first entrepreneurship is actually what you want or living a balanced life, right? Where you work 30, 35 hours a week and you actually make a little bit less money on purpose, if that's what you want, because that creates the lifestyle you're looking for. It kind of goes back to the four burners theory as well, too. Like you can turn all those other ones off and be a really unhappy, highly successful entrepreneur, but that's not what most people are after. That's right, man. Let's get to our beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode. This was an Ubu ale. Let's see, this was brewed right here in Lake Placid. So I say that because that's what's written on the note that Rebecca and Dylan sent our way. That is. We're not broadcasting from Lake Placid. No, no, yeah, yeah. This is their thinking. So we had them on the show. They are the rad coaches. We talked about couples and money and they were kind of enough to send us a beer. So Ubu ale, this is by Lake Placid Craft Brewing Company. It doesn't say what style this beer is, but I looked it up because I wanted them to know. Did you dig it? It's kind of like a porter ass. Yeah, it's got porter vibes. It's actually an English strong is how they classify it, but this one's like roasty notes, toffee vibes going on, some fig notes going on in there too. Almost like a little bit of a barley wine quality. Almost like a barley wine mixed with a porter. So this was interesting. Good flavor. And this is definitely more of like a fall beer getting into fall time. And so yeah, I enjoyed this one. Big thanks to Rebecca and Dylan for sending it our way. Yes. Thank you to the rad coaches. But Joel, that's going to be it for this episode. We'll make sure to link to some of the different resources that Steve mentioned. He's got a lot of freebies up there as well. And so yeah, we'll link to all that. You can find those up on the show notes at HowToMoney.com. But buddy, that's going to be it. So until next time, best friends out and best friends out. Blessing. Blessing. Oh, French dressing. Exactly. I'm AJ Jacobs and my current obsession is Puzzles. And that has given birth to my new podcast, The Puzzler. Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly. This is fun. You can get your daily puzzle nuggets. Delivered straight to your ears. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marissa Thalberg. And I'm Steven Wolf Fadeira. Come join us for our podcast brand new. So what's really new about brand new? Well, Steven and I are not only longtime C-suite executives or friends. Because of that, we've got a lot to say about tech entertainment, advertising, media, and marketing. What we call team. It's real talk from the inside, personal talk too. And it's meant for everyone rising in business or just interested in it. Just look for the brand new podcast wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation. You won't want to miss. Welcome to office hours where we sit down with the chief executives, shaping the world. I'm Mike Stive. And today, my friends, we are sitting down with someone I have admired my entire career. Pioneer and media and technology who has created brands and companies that have defined my generation, Bob Pittman, CEO of iHeart Media. You know, I think probably the best advice is don't listen to anybody else. Listen to office hours with Mike Stive on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready to be inspired? I am Colleen Witt, the host of Eating Wall Broke Podcasts. Step into a world where I sit down to budget meals created by self-made, entrepreneurs, influencers, and celebrities. Together, we revisit the very dishes that fuel their journey from humble beginnings. Every Thursday, listen to Eating Wall Broke on the Black Effect podcast network iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. The Black Effect podcast network is brought to you by Uber. Earn like a boss at uber.com slash boss.

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