Friday Flight - EV Incentives, Fund Fee Battles, & Reward Deficiency Syndrome #726

Sometimes the pop culture we love just teens hits differently in retrospect. Maybe it's a tabloid story we couldn't get enough of or an illicit student-teacher relationship on our favorite show. We're Suzy Banna-Karim and Jessica Bennett, posts of the new podcast in retrospect, where each week we'll revisit a cultural moment from the past that shaped us and probably you to try to understand what it taught us about the world and our place in it. You're the first person that I've talked to about this for years and years. Listen to in retrospect on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you find your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Marissa Thalberg. And I'm Stephen Wolf Fadeira. Come join us for our podcast brand new. So what's really new about brand new? Well, Stephen and I are not only longtime C-suite executives we're friends. Because of that, we've got a lot to say about tech entertainment, advertising, media, and marketing, what we call teen. It's real talk from the inside, personal talk too, and it's meant for everyone rising in business or just interested in it. Just look for the brand new podcast wherever you listen. It's a brand new conversation you won't want to miss. Welcome to office hours where we sit down with the chief executives, shaping the world. I'm Mike Stuybe and today my friends, we are sitting down with someone I have admired my entire career. A pioneer in media and technology who has created brands and companies that have defined my generation, Bob Pittman, CEO of iHeart Media. You know, I think probably the best advice is don't listen to anybody else. Listen to office hours with Mike Stuybe on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello world, you're tuning in to amplify color and I'm your host, the voice of Atlanta Ryan Cameron. Through in the course of this season, I'll share the stories of black trailblazers who left an undeniable impact on the radio industry despite the uphill challenges they faced from the very first black DJ all the way to the voices you know and love today. Listen to amplify color on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to had a money. I'm Joel. I'm Matt and today we're talking EV incentives. Fund fee battles and reward deficiency syndrome Yeah, we're going to get all medical and start diagnosing people with that reward deficiency syndrome. Now we are not going to do that but we will get to that story because we like to talk about money from all the different angles and that's a part of why we love our Friday flights is we not only cover all the different angles that you can talk about it we talk about some of the different stories that we've come across this past week. I watched a lot of doogie houses back in my day. I feel like I could do some medical analysis. I stated a holiday in well hey real quick let's mention we so last Friday we had our first how to money listener hanging in forever. I mean it's been a while a couple of years I guess since we had like you say crawled out of our hermit shells. It was awesome. It was so fun to meet so many different listeners out that inner voice. The good beer local pizza local brewery such great beers such great pizza and even better even better folks that we got to meet man. We have one listener Victoria she had just paid off her student loans and was kind of 15k they were celebrating the next day they're going to have like a little party some friends are going to come over and play games which by the way is totally my style of party. Yeah no so many great listeners at met listener Nick who is just moved here to Atlanta. Oh who by the way can I just say he what a cool dude he started listening since episode two when he started school and he graduated and now the guy just ball and so he had the best stories like literally I was driving to Bama and to pull up episode two and I've been listening you guys since and he's not only finished undergrad he's got his MBA super cool and by the way Nick was literally the first dude there and we forgot to grab our socks so Nick if you're listening yes if you're say everybody else not everybody else but a lot of other folks got socks but you are literally the first guy there if you're listening to this hit us up we want to send you a pair of socks well and just want to mention so it is really really really fun for us to get to enjoy we get to enjoy meeting other listeners but but it's really fun to watch the listeners interact and enjoy one or another too so that was kind of cool and I just want to heads up to put we're going to hopefully do more of these hangs in other cities in the future and in fact we have one on the docket for the calendar baby in New Orleans October 19th Matt and I are going to be down there so we will post details shortly but New Orleans October 19th at courtyard brewing planned to be there that evening so if you live in or around there anywhere in in Louisiana like just come state of yeah come over to New Orleans come hang with us yeah but we'll be there for Fincon so there's a chance we'll have some of our other personal finance buddies there with us yeah maybe some other folks that you either read or keep up with which just reminds me how great it is and it's like we need to do more of this so we're gonna yeah man try to make it a priority but yeah it's it's a ton of fun we appreciate all the folks who came out last Friday but Joel like I mentioned this is the Friday flight and actually speaking of last week we actually we crapped on the the new iPhones a little bit last week twelve hundred dollars right that's the the new titanium model it's a lot of money the other iterations were kind of minimal and so we think an upgrade doesn't make a whole lot of sense even if you do have an older phone consider getting an older one not the brand new the stinkin brand new ones but one thing that we didn't really discuss was the different carrier promotions that are happening right now where they're trying to entice you with a a free or at least massively discount discounted new iPhone but are you really getting something for nothing no not really the whole goal obviously is to keep you locked into a more expensive phone plan to keep you tethered to that company that you are currently with and we have seen the space industry change over the years the contracts they don't exist in the same way that they used to where you literally can't switch where you were locked in those were the worst days of the cell phone industry when it was like to your contract the dark ages itself and now like you still yeah you like you said you're kind of tethered but not in nearly the same way yes it's like basically the way that you're getting those discounts the way that you get that money off is that you have to stick with them because those those trading deals they're paid out monthly installments as opposed to kind of like an upfront sort of lump sum and so you're still again yeah you're just you're it's like a loose tethering it's like you could leave but oh you're gonna you're gonna owe us the difference and so and obviously these are folks that probably aren't going to be willing to do that and so instead you're stuck paying those higher monthly rates and that's not how we want you to approach your cell phone yeah they they don't want you these big companies they don't want you looking in the direction of the the discounters like mint visible and Google five which are three of our favorites right it's like this Jedi mind trick and their marketing is all about getting you to like not see the discount cell phone plans that exist out there in the ether stay focused on us and so the big thing to look at though just like with the purchases of a car is the total cost of ownership right these big wireless companies they are not giving away free iPhones like candy out of the goodness of their heart and in fact they're not giving away free iPhones despite what their marketing looks like these are capitalist enterprises and their marketing is geared towards folks who want the newest phone but can't fathom the idea of coming up with twelve hundred bucks for it and one fell swoop and so if you're thinking about the total out of pocket cost you're gonna face something like a fifteen dollar month cell phone plan and paying full price for a new or preferably for an older model like you said Matt is going to be your best money saving bet and by the way we'll link to this in the show notes but wallet hub just released some really helpful stats and this calculator so you can kind of see well if I do want to get the newest phone where am I going to be able to get that and service at the cheapest rate I don't think they included actually a couple of our favorite cell phone providers in their calculations but they did talk about how a lot of the the discount providers are going to save you a lot more over some of these you know these major cell phone plans that do you know all the advertising on the NFL games and the major league baseball games and stuff like that you're going to be inundated with them if you watch TV if you watch sports but sure I mean and more than anything what the calculator does it just helps you to see what the actual costs are and folks aren't taking the time even like sit down at Google sheets or pull up a spreadsheet and punch it like you can do it yourself if you wanted to like you can just spread or scribble it out on a piece of paper and you can quickly do the math but we don't a lot of folks don't do that they aren't going through the the additional step to to say and to ask themselves how much is this actually costing me additional and in a lot of cases is especially if you're looking at some that price your plans versus the most affordable plans you are very likely going to be saving hundreds and hundreds of dollars if not thousands especially if yes a lot of those family plans that's what wallet hub found out was you might be saving thousands over to your period it's insane so on that note the the big wireless companies they're also begging you to pay with a debit card or with the ACH instead of with a credit card because we've talked about this but the duopoly of visa mastercard they are continuing to raise their transaction fees and so of course it's not only impacting smaller businesses which is oftentimes the context that we will discuss on the show here but it's taking a pretty big bite out of their bottom lines as well we talked about how listener Tyler he's able to get around this is sort of like a hack that he's doing so he's got T-Mobile he schedules his payment via debit card right so he's got his information on there but then he goes in manually he pays with his credit card and so that gives him the best of both worlds right he's got the extra discount for having scheduled the payment in advance but then he also has the protection and the rewards of using a credit card he's got that cell phone insurance the additional points and rewards so I'm not sure if Verizon and AT&T are doing the same thing and I'm not even sure how much longer T-Mobile is going to allow this to fly but the worst way to pay them is via an ACH transfer and that's because if there is a problem with the amount that's taken out of your account well you've got to actually claw to get your money back because it's not the future promise of money that you'll pay like with a credit card they've literally taken money out of your account and yes there are protections and procedures but it's just better to not be out the money in the first place so it's going to come down to the individual to figure out whether or not it's going to be worth it to get that extra monthly discount we think it probably is often tell you know because if you're if you're saving five bucks and even if let's just say you have an expensive cell phone plan at a hundred bucks if you're paying if you're saving five dollars that's five percent that's pretty sweet but simultaneously just know that you're not getting the same protections and benefits that you would get with a credit card in this and that's just assuming just a basic cash back there are a lot of cards out there that have really sweet welcome offers like on personal cards you are looking at at least getting five hundred bucks but if you happen to have a little side hustle and you're able to get a business card you're looking at a thousand dollars of just straight cash back that's not even considering using those points towards something like travel which is acts as a multiplier on top of that so just something to keep in mind yeah how you pay matters certain protections rewards all that kind of stuff we talk about it all the time but you also have to be disciplined if you're using a credit card that's for sure and Matt everything in life revolves around incentives right we talk about that all the time there are no solutions there are only trade-offs no perfect solutions there are subpar solutions right well that even when you pick this one thing that's like okay that's my solution but you trade off other things by going in that direction right that's that's just kind of the reality of life and it's definitely the reality of economics and which which way of paying is the most convenient that comes with the most productions and offers the best rewards which makes me think of a white paper I just saw about charging electric vehicles right this doesn't come as much of a surprise to me but EV owners it turns out they end up responding to financial incentives to charge their vehicle at different times of day for instance if charging becomes free or the cost is significantly reduced after a certain point in the evening folks will wait to charge and if there aren't any incentives if there is no reduction in the rate they'll charge whenever they don't well feel like it so it is interesting like some electric companies are are basically telling customers if you have an EV and you charge at this time of day you'll pay a reduced rate others are saying that it's even free listener Greg actually who was at the hang on Friday he was telling me about hit he gets to charge for free after 9 ppm his Tesla so yeah well like up to a certain amount and it's funny because I actually looked that up because I was curious because I knew we're going to talk about electricity and I couldn't I don't know what his specific plan is but I remember him saying it's like one of those kind of say you know it's a crowded bar like a lot of folks are talking I'm like did I actually did I hear you right but what I did find so like Georgia power we're here where we live they got the nights and weekends right we're basically they're charging you more right to run the AC at peak times they're offering a much more attractive rate at other times of the day they've got like off peak hours but they also have the only thing I could find was super off peak and guess what they're charging per kilowatt hour uh three cents one cent oh wow yes which is like 20 or 24 times more affordable than just the standard rate like could you that's mind blowing so even if you don't have a free option or something like that could you imagine there are lines wrapped around like into the parking lot at Costco just because gas is like 10 cents 20 cents cheaper could you imagine if it was 20 24 times more affordable that's it's it's just mind blowing to think that if you do have an an EV the ability to slightly change your behavior how it could lead to incredible savings this is just one of those ways where it just massively pays to to be a contrarian yeah honestly right and and not do what other folks are doing if you opt for a plan like that I think it could save you a ton of money but you have to not just change often when you charge your electric vehicle you have to change when you do other things too change when you run the washer and the dryer and allow the house to get a whole lot hotter right during that peak period of day so that you're not running their conditioner nonstop like other people are so you have to be willing to change other things too but it can be worth the savings because the savings can be significant like you're talking about if you're looking like 20x all literally is like one point something since per kilowatt it's crazy which I'm like oh my starts making me think twice about the one vehicle that we have but then again then I got a purchase of pretty expensive EV or some sort of hybrid plug-in hybrid whatever definitely something I'm going to be considering well and this isn't just Georgia power it's there's oh yeah yeah this happens across the nation so I guess it's just a call to listeners to say hey wait a second can I shift my energy usage and can I save actually a lot of my electricity bill by choosing one of these off-peak sort of plans and and then changing my behavior conventionally you might see I don't know you might be able to see your power bill cut in half by doing something like this which is which is awesome and you're also not paying for something like filling up at the gas station yes every week like I think the larger lesson here is just find like consider doing things a little bit differently consider times that other like it makes me think about we talked about dynamic pricing for beer last week right like when all the other folks aren't going to the pub or going to the bar so speaking of timing the best time to buy a home is almost here evidently according to realtor.com the first week in October is the best time to be making some offers on a house and certainly still a frot time out there due to the limited inventory due to high prices incredibly high interest rates that are tough to stomach as well but this time in the fall is when the least amount of buyers are actively looking and there are actually more active listings than usual so it makes it a great time for you to pounce if you are financially ready and so we'll see what actually happens in the housing market because will home prices go down further if you if you wait longer that's a tough question it's anybody's guess but the supply and demand imbalance it's likely not going anywhere our advice it stands right it continues to center around personal factors you got to consider your timeline you got to figure out determine how much money you've got actually saved up you need to actually run the numbers and to determine whether or not this is going to make sense for you but then like that's maybe even more the mathematical analytical side of things there's also just personal considerations as in how badly do you want to live live in your own home to be able to create memories there or maybe to get your kid into a certain school district because that's where this great school is and that would actually allow you to save money on private school I guess that kind of swings back to the money the money's I think but just consider some of these different different factors soft times no more than a third of your take on pay should be you should be spent on housing that's kind of a typical rule of thumb but that being said there are other considerations as well makes me think like allows you to ditch a car payment yes yeah think through transportation but let's say I was thinking about like a friend of ours recently went to New York and she never travels I was shocked to learn that she's like in her mid to late 40s she had never been to New York City before she hates to travel I was like how have you never been to New York City ever in your entire life before is like I don't like to travel if that's you if you're listening and you're like oh that's me I'm a home buddy I don't I don't like to go out to eat I don't like to travel that's an instance where your personal considerations what it is that you prefer might slightly sway what you would be willing to spend on a house and I think in her case it actually does too because they live in a pretty nice place yeah it will spend a little more on that which yeah exactly don't go overboard if you drive a clunker and you don't travel and you don't go out to yep you can afford to spend a little bit more in your house well it makes me think too Matt like when look at the facts on the ground too right we how badly you you mentioned how badly do you want to own that home well yeah if you're like yeah I guess home ownership would be great and oh Matt just said Matt and Joel just said October the first week in October is the time to buy but you're saving so much money because rent is so much cheaper which is the case across most of the country the disparity between the cost of a mortgage now and the cost of that same house but renting it is so significant that renting makes a whole lot more financial sense for a whole lot of people so unless you're like I really want to own a home and and and I'm 100% prepared mountains in order to make this house yeah I'm willing to sacrifice and lots of their other areas of my life in order to make that then staying put and saving that spread and funneling it towards better things like paying off debt saving and investing that is probably the best way to go at least for the time being for a whole lot of people but Matt we've got more to get to on this episode and specifically I want to let's talk about mental health and how that can impact how much progress you're able to make on your personal finance journey we'll talk about that and more right after this this is in retrospect a podcast about pop culture from the 80s and 90s that shaped us I'm very much a product of the pop culture I consumed yeah and I don't think that's a bad thing I'm Jessica Bennett a New York Times writer and bestselling author I'm Susie an award-winning TV producer and filmmaker every week we'll revisit a moment in cultural history that we just can't stop thinking about from tabloid headlines to elicit student teacher relationships and one very memorable red swimsuits I found myself in Pamela Anderson's attic as you do I put that red swimsuit in a safe because it seemed everybody wanted it we're digging deep to better understand with these moments taught us about the world and our place in it I want you to really smell the axe body spray that emanated during this time it was presented more as kind of like a crime topic okay that's not a lot of love story it had been branded on the uteruses of every single woman from sea to shining sea listen to in retrospect on the iHeart Radio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows hi I'm Marissa Fallberg and I'm Steven Wolf Vereda we want to invite you to join us for a new podcast brand new so what's actually new about brand new well Steven and I are not only working seasweet executives we're friends my friend Marissa is actually one of the most influential chief marketing officers in the world and hey Steven has a story career across finance tech and multicultural entertainment because that we've got a lot to say about the world of tech entertainment advertising median marketing what we actually call teen we always adore each other but don't always agree with each other and that's part of the fun it's real talk from the inside sometimes personal talk too and it's meant for everyone rising in business or just interested in it in each episode we give our hot takes on hot topics and always answer what's on your minds too just look for the brand new podcast on the iHeart podcast network or wherever you listen it's a brand new conversation that you won't want to miss welcome to office hours where we sit down with the chief executives shaping the world I'm Mike Steib and today my friends we are sitting down with someone I have admired my entire career a pioneer in media and technology who has created brands and companies that have defined my generation Bob Pittman CEO of iHeart Media Bob MTV was a revolution elevating music videos to the top of our culture what was the origin of the idea I done a show in the 1970s called album tracks and we've begun playing around with these video clips these video versions of songs and we were doing music news and information we got a meeting with Steve Ross who is the CEO Warner and Jim Robinson who is the CEO of America Express and I pitched hard let's do a video radio station and that was the way we got started listen to office hours with Mike Steib on the iHeart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hey everybody I'm Ben Nathafafri and I want to tell you about a show called the last archive it's about the history of truth in 20th century America each episode we tell a story about how people came up with new ways of knowing things and doubting things over the last hundred years histories of science technology democracy and also some pretty far out characters what what what the heck was that again well it's Dr. Frankenstein's monster isn't it this season on the last archive will hear stories about the dawn of social network theory of course I go oh my god mid-century songwriting machines I'm not an industrial spy I'm a graduate student invasive species just chanting all together bring back the nest bring back the nest all this and more on the new season of the last archive listen to the last archive on the iHeart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts all right man we are back from the break we've got more money stories to get to and of course it's time now to get to our ludicrous headline of the week this one is from the journal the headline read you might be paying too much for that index fund that's right folks not all index funds are created equal yes sometimes we just say oh it expands to the way to go but this is a good reminder there yeah and so the war on expense ratios continues state street they just announced that it's s and p 500 fund expense ratio is being cut to 0.02 percent and so what's important to keep in mind vanguards is 0.03 percent oh they got a cave in shots fired a little bit of a slap in the face to the the big big behemoth but still well I guess a state street they're pretty huge as well yeah but when we're talking about like that small of a difference there's no need to shake things up if you're happy with vanguard don't see state street and be like oh I got I got to get over there got to move all my accounts right right yeah but these these falling fund fees they have been a massive win for investors over the past couple of decades right like over the course of years just as the the weighted average fee that investors pay based on where their assets are sucked away it's actually down to 0.17 percent which is a far cry from where it used to be and so just we wanted to mention this because we want you to be careful and pay attention to the fees that you're paying for sure they they definitely add up just an increase from 0.05 percent to 0.55 percent doesn't seem that big but that could cost you almost a quarter of a million dollars over the decades that is quite a bit of money and so even though this particular fee the change that we're seeing is not that significant it all comes down to who you're with yeah to be honest it does yeah yeah exactly not all index funds are created equal depending on where you go it depends on the kind of fee that you're gonna pay you don't have full control over this inside of like let's say a workplace sponsor to count right your 401k or your 403b or something in particular a lot of those 403b's you might be paying higher fees than you'd like to but that might be the price you got to pay to get that match yes to get a match but the inside of your own IRA or Roth IRA right you you have the ability to choose the specific provider yourself and you can prioritize the one that comes with the lowest possible fees and so you know or at least the average of the lowest possible fees like and that's why we always mention Fidelity Vanguard Schwab those are three of the best the truth is paying an extra 0.01 percent's not gonna kill you right it's kind of like how yeah it's probably not worth changing banks to go from four and a half to four point seven five on your high yield savings account but it is worth ditching one of the big banks that pays 0.1 percent on savings in favor of any high yield savings account that pays in the mid single digits and so I don't know it the folks that stay with the high fee providers or with the big banks who don't pay anything on savings those are the ones who end up missing out big big I'll say it's like it doesn't matter if you go from Vanguard 0.03 to state treat 0.02 but it does matter if you're with someone who's charging you half a percent and you go to Vanguard and you're down to 0.03 this right just makes me think of like the math they were AOL customers for years still paying fees to still are and are they still paying is it really yeah we talked about it wasn't all that long ago we talked about the number of folks who are still paying for AOL which is just crazy I mean those are the people who are just leaking money every month and we don't want you to be one of those people leaking money every month because you're not making that one big move yet to pay into the butt but it's worth it if you're with one of the high fee providers that's right okay so since we're talking about investing let's ask the question when should you start saving for retirement and the truth is the earlier the better and so this is rare as all get out but starting to save for retirement in your team we're seeking the newborns here right as you yeah like literally I mean seriously the earlier the better but it would give you a massive leg up it would allow you to save a smaller percentage of your income over the years because the dollars that you saved early on they're working hard on your behalf if you don't start investing until you reach middle age like you have got your work cut out for you you're going to end up paying a significantly higher portion like of your investment dollars are going to be from you as opposed to your money having multiplied and done all that work for you if you want to retire on time you are just required to suck away so much higher a percentage of your paycheck if you want to retire with the same amount of money whereas if you start earlier you can just suck away so much less really that's right and the Roth part is key right this is a part of why we love Roth IRAs because you're paying tax on those earnings during years when you aren't making much money at all you are most likely going to be in the absolute lowest tax bracket and you're avoiding taxation on the growth of that account forever you never have to worry about taxes ever again and Roth IRA funds they won't typically impact the kid's ability to score financial aid for college either so that's another big win but I'm going to give a little example here and I'm sure folks have heard something similar to this but just to put in to perspective how big of an impact this can make imagine you've got an entrepreneurial 14 year old right and let's say they start maxing out that Roth IRA fully my mom we're talking 6500 bucks like that's that's a lot of money but let's imagine though that they do that for six solid years they do that until they're 20 years old that amount will have grown with their contributions and a little bit of growth to $58,000 respectable right like it's not like life changing amount of money but it is when you consider the fact that were that kid to leave that money untouched from age 20 until 60 right until retirement age literally not having contributed another single dollar right maybe they're like okay I'm done with my money nerdery I've got other things I'm interested in I'm going to go so my wild oats yeah so I end everything I earn so literally where they to not contribute a single dollar at the age of 60 they would have around 1.2 million dollars right so that's that's that's case a case B imagine a typical 25 year old and they hear oh I need to start investing okay and honestly even 25 investing at the age of 25 is still young still pretty early but let's say they start maxing out their Roth IRA as well 65 hundred dollars a year and they're going to continue to do that until they hit retirement until age 60 they're going to do that for another 35 years they will still have never caught up to the amount of money that that 14 year old has in their retirement it's crazy in that insane there's just a gulf a massive chasm of difference between the amount of money of their own money that that 14 year old put in versus the amount of money that that later investor yeah has put in like clockwork until they decide to retire it's even worse if you don't start investing till you're 40 45 or 50 years and like that the amount required like I said to catch up and to to feel like you're actually prepared for retirement becomes just almost impossible to pull off for most people and not to mention just kind of the habit that you develop starting early minutes it's pretty rare that you would actually invest 6500 bucks a year for the for for 14 to 20 and then never do it and they just stop yeah this was not likely going to happen so just imagine the the kind of and this isn't to say that you got to forsake any other interests that you might have but just imagine the kind of wealth that you're going to have you're going to be able to retire quite comfortable yes and so just incentivizing just helping your teenager maybe think through that and get started even if it's not like maxing out the Roth every year but you're like listen even 500 bucks into this account is going to be life changing for you and in one great way to can help them do this is the mom or dad match it's a good way to incentivize good behavior while also someone thinks some really important money knowledge and there was a recent survey Matt it which found that more than a third of parents they don't believe that their child understands the value of a dollar and this is just such a great way of connecting the dots because you know one other concerning thing from that study is that adults think that money habits really begin to form at age 15 which is which is not true the forms are from so much earlier right those beliefs and habits begin really in early elementary school if not even a bit earlier than that and so if we wait to have money conversations with our kids until they're 15 we've missed a lot of ripe opportunities for discussion and then you know making money a relevant topic regularly in the home finding ways to help your kids just talk about it earn yeah you help them find a ways to earn more to to save to spend wisely even in those elementary school years even when when they're first grade second grade that's really important and that's going to help them then as opposed to being like hey it's 15 it's time to open your Roth IRA and they're like what are you talking we haven't talked about money my whole life you want to yeah now you want to talk and I think 65 hundred dollars what do you talk that's crazy talk right and I mean it is if you've literally never talked about it before and let's say you literally have a 15 year old and you've never had that conversation it's okay to start today but it's also better to start earlier and then it makes that Roth IRA conversation in age 14 15 16 a little more palatable yeah yeah add that to your to-do list not got the birds in the beast talk but then you got the money talk sorry but I think that's also it doesn't need to be this big giant sit-down sort of thing yeah yeah right they need to be the the regular little small conversation yeah where we talk about money here and there all over the place and because it is something that impacts map your life my life every single day and and everybody out there listening and so just let your kids in on some of those combos just don't make it this like taboo topic that doesn't get brought up or yeah talk about at the dinner table sometimes hey our vacation does not have to be a big deal it could be something that you lightly touch on here and there talk about the trade-offs you know grocery store yeah perhaps like this is why we get the this is why we go to Aldi right instead of publics or whole this is this is why we don't get the name brand cereal kids and we're getting bananas and peanut butter instead and because of the nutrition right you actually get out of bananas and peanut butter yeah as empty weedy whatever filled sugar laden cereal by the way while parents can help and still good money knowledge and good habits at a young age well most folks are left defend for themselves and it's important to mention that sometimes your money issues run deeper than a lack of disciplines obviously there's sometimes a lack of knowledge if it was never talked about but for others there are other obstacles that are maybe a little more difficult to overcome the times they had an interesting article about women with ADHD and how that can actually impact their ability to to make financial progress it's interesting actually how they talked about oftentimes boys they get diagnosed fairly early on because of just the behavioral tendencies and the symptoms that are shown but girls oftentimes can fall through the cracks it often expresses itself differently in girls in us in boys we think that our our eight-year-old probably has ADHD although we haven't gotten an official diagnosis but I'm like man I can see I can see it but it it just exhibits itself so much more obviously in boys we're not doctors we're not psychiatrists but yet folks with ADHD neurodivergent folks they can have a tougher time managing their money so apparently folks who have ADHD can feel something called this is what we led with at the very top of the episode reward deficiency syndrome which basically means it can lead to higher levels of spending in order to get a dopamine release where it is that you get that initial dopamine dopamine release to begin with like that's another conversation I guess but oftentimes we are turning to spending and if you kind of have this deficiency syndrome you're basically you're spending even more in order to get that hit and evidently you can have the opposite effect as well that sometimes it causes folks to become so anxious that they avoid spending as much as possible from a financial standpoint maybe you're not in as bad of a situation but maybe are still dealing with a similar level of unhealth again we're not doctors but that makes it like if you feel like this is you maybe consider going to see an actual doctor I think just even having a diagnosis can can help a whole lot I think talking to like a therapist they could help you to just understand what it is that's going on it could help you to not only identify but then even come up with a plan to help you to avoid some of the tendencies that you have that you might be drawn towards that could be leading to financial instability yeah and I think you're right like getting a diagnosis if you think that might be you can be helpful because it can at least help you see where things are stemming from right I think medication can sometimes be helpful cognitive behavioral therapy is something else that can kind of help your brain rewire teach it new ways of thinking about stuff CBT yeah exactly so I mean again trying to change the CBT brand you know make it cool again yeah trying to make a sound yeah sound broy I appreciate that well I think it is just it's just one of those things where it probably doesn't get talked on enough about in the personal finance base and it feels like it's just math or behavioral change and behavioral change can be more difficult for some than others based on what's going on inside the brains and so it's just important to mention that not doctors but man it can help if you're struggling to to unearth maybe some of that kind of stuff and and not just assume that you're the kind of person who can't do it you might have more obstacles in your way but it doesn't mean you can't overcome them with a little bit of help and Matt this might sound weird but I think I think loneliness can cause us to do weird things with our money too with there's been a lot written about kind of the epidemic of loneliness that we're experiencing America these days IRL stuff like our how to money hang that's becoming more and more rare sadly and when you can buy whatever you want and have it delivered in minutes or hours yes it can become easier to hook her down and spend like a maniac and so yeah yeah I mean that's I think that's a part of like what I was kind of hinting at before like where it is that you are receiving those highs those dopamine releases yeah when you don't have individuals in your life to shoot straight with you you don't have anyone saying that like hey man maybe you shouldn't be buying that or like why are you getting another one of those it seems like this endless cycle because when you are purchasing something it's such a short lived dopamine release it's not a robust high right as opposed to something that you are able to that's able to power you sort of like our when we were able to hang out with a bunch of listeners and you carry that on into the weekend and beyond or at least there was like a just a bit more of a shame factor because even if you didn't have a friend with you you had to go to the mall and the person there was some sort of in-person feeling that you could drive based on your spending but not so much anymore you can just like literally do it from the privacy of your own home and so this is how the Amazon man has turned into a drug dealer it's like delivering me my fix yeah that's kind of what we're talking about pretty much and so like insider had an article about how friends and Seinfeld both those shows were on to something back in the day with the coffee shop and the diner kind of being places to congregate and how it provided a lot of social stimulation necessary social social stimulation and we agree right there's been a whole lot talked about in the personal finance base about how buying coffee is like the worst thing you can do for your money but the truth is those little splurges yeah and if you do it every day gotta get rid of it it can add up that's for sure but meeting a friend for a latte it might actually be able to help you reduce or a beer other or beer or beer it could help you reduce spending in other areas right if it means that if that meaningful social interaction gives you kind of the outlet you need that helps prevent some of those other unhealthy spending outlets I think it can be a good thing Matt and I I think we would suggest finding an inexpensive third place that you hit up regularly right it can be it's good for your ability to build community and it can be good for your finances too and it doesn't have to necessarily involve spending money your third place can be your local hiking trail right I mean I'm spending a lot more time on mine lately and I run into the same people and it's kind of fun yeah so it doesn't have to be even buying a coffee which is a pretty cheap way to get that outlet it can be other things too yeah I mean I think it just it just takes being vulnerable it takes you going on a limb because like what we're talking about here is community and creating a sense of community and that's something that we've you know you and I have talked about this with our wise altogether just how it's definitely you know we moved our families a year ago from some place that we lived for over a decade to a completely new part of town where we didn't know anybody starting from scratch yeah and I think what we're what I'm realizing more and more is that it just takes vulnerability it takes going out on a tiny not a tiny line it takes taking a tiny like little leap of faith essentially saying hi to somebody introducing yourself and it's uncomfortable doing that because you don't have control over the situation like oh what if they don't reciprocate what if they don't respond to me or what if you hug and random people what if they don't want to talk to me well that's just the cost of creating community of trying to foster community and but I think that's that's it's just what it takes and oftentimes we're just in our own worlds dude and we're talking about we're talking to chick flay owner and they were saying that 90 over 90 percent of their business takes place in the dry through yes and that's I feel like that's another example of an instance where we are trying to be in control the only relationship is transactional you're just getting your food you're giving your paying for it and you miss those in person brushing of the shoulders meeting somebody or seeing somebody you hadn't seen before meeting somebody hearing something new the ability to not control your life perfectly I think is actually a great way to ultimately lead to happiness and it just yeah that's why we love biking right because it gets you out of your car where you're not completely insulated from your surroundings you get more of a chance to actually talk to people literally yesterday I was biking over more and I was I was coming up on the path my neighbor was there and I hadn't talked to him in a couple months and I had my earbuds in I was listening to a podcast I was like let me just turn it off pull it next to him see if he's willing to chat a little bit and we ended up talking for over 30 minutes we went all the back back to the neighborhood and that was like so that's an instance of not even having to pay any money yeah and but just being because I'm like what if he was on a call or what if he was listening to an audiobook that he was really interested in and kind of shut me down okay like that's just a I guess a risk that I think we should all be willing to take if in particular you are looking for more community and I think we certainly need more of that based on the stats you talking about yeah I think the pandemic of loneliness we're all dealing with that I think those relational outlets help relieve some of our desire to spend money to fill that void right yeah so yeah we avoid the cheap that cheap hit of like let's go ahead and have a deliver tomorrow yeah I had to like the best conversation with this older gentleman who's on the mountain all the time like and I was I was on it I'd hiked with him for a little while and it's just meeting new people here and hearing about their lives smoking you wouldn't be cool stuff he dude he's there a lot more than I he's in better shape though yeah he's probably in his like early 60s and he respect he owned me but I love it yeah but it's so fun and so that's the kind of stuff just encourage you to do it so it's amazing how all these other aspects of our lives impact how we think about how we handle our money and it seems small or it seems like they're unrelated but but really everything's interconnected so it's true all right that's gonna do it for this self-help session of how to money got to talking about not money there for a second exactly yeah we appreciate your listening and we hope you have a great weekend and again if you're in New Orleans don't forget to put October 19th on your calendar right we look forward to doing an in-person hang there at courtyard brewing we hope to see a bunch of you out there on October 19th that's a Thursday night so math that's gonna do it for this one until next time best friends out best friends out sometimes the pop culture we love just teens hits differently in retrospect maybe it's a tabloid story we couldn't get enough of or an illicit student teacher relationship on our favorite show we're Susie Bannakaram and Jessica Bennett posts of the new podcast in retrospect where each week we'll revisit a cultural moment from the past that shaped us and probably you to try to understand what it taught us about the world and our place in it you're the first person that i've talked to about this for years and years listen to in retrospect on my heart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you find your favorite shows hi i'm orissa fallberg and i'm steven wolf fanator come join us for our podcast brand new so what's really new about brand new well steven and i are not only longtime c-suite executives we're friends because of that we've got 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