In 1995, Detective Tony Richardson was trying to figure out who killed a fellow officer.
The case comes down to who is believed and who is ignored.
Oh my goodness, we did connect to Innocent Man.
I'm Beth Shelburn from Lava for Good Podcasts.
This is Ear Witness.
Listen to Ear Witness on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
podcasts.
Starting at 10 p.m. Eastern, 7 p.m. Pacific.
Hi, I'm Marissa Thalberg.
And I'm Stephen Wolf Fadada.
Come join us for our podcast brand new.
So what's really new about brand new?
Well Stephen and I are not only longtime C-suite executives, we're friends.
Because of that, we've got a lot to say about tech entertainment, advertising, media, and
marketing, what we call team.
It's real talk from the inside, personal talk too, and it's meant for everyone rising
in business or just interested in it.
Just look for the brand new podcast wherever you listen.
It's a brand new conversation, you won't want to miss.
Welcome to Had a Money, I'm Joel, and I am Matt.
And today we're talking from Military to Millionaire with Lacey Langford.
Yeah, our guest today is like a money drill sergeant, but without all of the yelling, at
least for the most part, I hear she yells at you sometimes on occasion of Lacey Langford.
She is a financial coach of veteran, a mill spouse, and an entrepreneur who changes people's
mindset from being fearful of money to having control and confidence with their money.
She is an accredited financial counselor with over 15 years of financial planning, counseling
and coaching experience.
And Lacey is all about the military and money, which is why we are pumped to talk with
her.
And because signing up to serve our country in the military, it's an act of service that
we feel that we should be honoring of.
And sometimes there's a financial sacrifice attached to that, but there can also be significant
financial upsides as well that we're going to discuss today.
So Lacey, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited about this.
Yeah, we're excited to Lacey and Matt and I, we drink a craft beer every day.
Every episode, it's something that we spend more money than most people would think is
natural on while we're also being, being smart, being wise, we're saving, investing for
our future.
So our first question to everyone out the gate is, what is it that you like to sports
on?
What's your kind of craft beer equivalent?
I think for me, safety and security is something that me and my husband are willing to
splurge on, especially with all the moving that we've done in our life, different locations,
having kids, my husband being away, that's something that we're willing to spend a little
extra on.
Okay.
So what do you got like a, you're talking like insurance products, you're talking about
fire on.
Fire on.
Yeah, I guess this could go in multiple directions.
Yeah, well, I think it just depends on, for us, like who we are, what we need at the
moment, but with all the moves, that might mean that we pay a little bit more on rents
to live in a safer neighborhood because my husband's going to be gone and a lot of people
might think, well, you could save a ton of money if you rents it somewhere else.
Yes, but I wouldn't feel safe and secure if, so I'm willing to spend a little bit more
per month in order to be in a better location for me and my kids won't be by ourselves.
Nice.
I get it.
Yeah.
Not only do you get to possibly enjoy a spot that's a little swankier, perhaps, but yes,
also the, the ability to, you know, just kind of live your life, I guess, the way you
want to be able to get outside.
And that's obviously so important, especially with kids.
But, um, Lacey, talk with us specifically about your relationship with a military, because
you grew up as an army brat, uh, you served in the Air Force yourself.
How has just the military overall, how has that impacted your, your life and your relationships?
I think one, there has been a lot of transition, which depending, I think, on your mindset,
how you look at that, that can come with some negatives, but I try to find the positive
and things.
For me, it's been great to have exposure to a lot of different experiences, a lot of
different people, culture, um, and then also the ability to connect and communicate, you
know, if you wait too long, when you move someplace to find friends in the military, you're
going to be leaving before you find friends.
And so I have found that that's one thing that's positive about the whole military lifestyle
is really being able to meet new people and kind of put myself out there in order to
make connections and community early on, because you never know when you're going to lose
that.
Um, and I think, you know, there are some things with transition that come with that, like
always changing jobs and changing your community, um, which have impacted me kind of over my
entire life as a child, as a service member, as a military spouse, as a parent.
So there's, I think in each phase, there's been different things that have come with
that.
Yeah.
Um, I'm just going to move again in a year, um, maybe I won't make many friends.
I'll just kind of lean into family, I'll read more books, whatever.
So I love the, I love that you're taking the opposite approach and you're saying, I don't
how much time here I'm going to make the most of it.
And, and Lacey, you're one of six kids and you grew up living on a military salary, military
income.
I'm curious, like, how did money discussions go down inside your house?
Because you guys weren't flush with cash, a lot of mouths to feed.
But what were those discussions, like how did the, how did they happen around the dinner
table and otherwise?
I was actually one of four kids or six of us total.
And I think for us, communication was key.
My parents always communicated that we have a budget.
There's not a blank check for anything in life, you know, that there has to be some type
of limit.
And, and so we always had those discussions about how we are going to make a move and
maybe incorporate a vacation on our move to our next location that we're moving to and
make the most out of, you know, killed two birds with one stone.
And with four kids, you know, everybody can't have an unlimited budget for sports.
That type of stuff.
And so it was, you know, being mindful that there are other people here that if you're
trying to take up all the time doing your thing, then that impacts your siblings.
So I really think discussion was important and being realistic.
And then also we were always told that we need to, we're being trained to be fully functioning
in adults.
So we need to work.
We need to learn what that's like to have hardships with that.
You know, it's not going to always be easy to work with people, but you're going to have
to get used to that.
You're going to have to get used to managing your own money.
And so early on, I think we all worked because if we wanted money to do things with our
friends, that was going to come out of our budget, not our, you know, my parents budget.
And so having ownership early on in our finances, I think came out of being a military family,
you know, having, you know, more than a couple of siblings, I think was another factor
in that.
And then also wanting our independence, you know, there was a lot of restrictions on
the money that my parents would give us.
But if we wanted more, if we wanted an nicer pair of jeans or we wanted to go on, you
know, to the beach with our friends, then we were going to have to earn and budget, you
know, and save for that experience for ourselves.
It seems like to, based on the way you've talked about your relationship with your father,
like, there was no shame in these conversations either, right?
It was like, hey, there's reality staring us down the face.
But it seems like there was, there were a lot of good, proactive, positive discussions
around money.
Like, money was a positive topic of conversation in your household, not, not a negative,
which is, which is kind of rare.
Yes, definitely.
I think, you know, both my parents are very practical and that, you know, has, I've taken
up that as well, that, you know, you have to be realistic in life.
We were very blessed.
I mean, I'm still very blessed and to have each other and the ability to work and to, you
know, make up for things or fix things, you know, problems are going to come.
But it's really how you look at it, how you handle it.
It's, am I going to fall down and not get up?
Or am I going to take any, catch my breath, get up and go after it.
And I think that was the message.
Like, it is going to be hard.
There are going to be bad times, but how you, you go after your mindset and how you
stay focused on the solutions to that problem instead of wallowing in, in whatever it is,
I think was, was very helpful in, in having those conversations, just, in just being practical
and, and not shying away from it.
My parents were always willing to talk about stuff and, and anything.
That's so good.
That's so good.
Yeah.
I mean, that communication is, is so key.
And I think that you talked about you getting a job and working.
I think that is such an important way that you are able to teach kids how to be practical
and how to be realistic, because if they are working, they understand the finite amount
of money that, not only that they have, but, oh, I guess this is the case with mom and
dad as well.
I mean, so you started working as a team, do you feel like getting a part-time job like
that?
Do you think high schoolers getting jobs?
Do you think that's something that's probably good for most kids?
I do.
I think that's, you know, I have found benefit.
I think everybody has a different perspective in life and, you know, some people are like,
well, we want our child to be fully focused on their education and not working and, you
know, for different reasons that that might not be a priority for us.
But I learned early on too as a parent.
I had a very scary experience where I almost died with during my pregnancy, my first child.
Well, you know, that really shaped a lot of the way that I look at being a parent is
like, I'm not always going to be here.
It could happen at any time.
My thing is I'm training you to do this on your own and all of these things like I want
you to have those experiences as soon as possible so that, you know, I'm here to talk you through
those things and, you know, when you have a coworker that you're frustrated with or you
feel like you need to ask for a raise or you, you know, having hard discussions or standing
up for yourself, those type of things.
So I think having a job is really training for so many things in life and I'm already
on our boys that they need to be working and because I started working, I think when
I was 13, I bagged groceries at the commissary, which is the supermarket on military installations.
So I grew up as a, my father was in the military, he was in the army when I was a kid.
So I remember riding in, we'd going on post, going to the commissary and yeah, that's
where we would load up like in a Costco, like way, like multiple cars and very fond memories
of the commissary.
So I'm trying to bag your groceries and stuff, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Well, okay, so moving around fairly frequently, that's part of kind of military existence
in so many ways and it comes with some downsides.
But like, I guess I'm curious, what are the unique money struggles that are men and women
who serve, what are the unique struggles that they face versus what traditional Americans
might consider to be a typical money struggle?
Well, first, you have to think about the population that's serving, predominantly male,
much younger, forced that's married and has children.
So there are, you know, a lot of people join the military at 17 years old.
So it's not uncommon to have an 18 or 19 year old that has, that is married and has two
or three children.
And so if you think about that, that group of people and then throw in the frequent move,
so maybe moving on average every two, two and a half years, that is difficult because
with transition, for example, comes the problem with un and under employment with military spouses.
And so it's difficult for there to be two incomes or two steady incomes as a family
in the military.
And that's not to say that every military spouse wants to work because many spouses want
to stay home, children, they're earning their education, that type of stuff.
But there is this problem with un and under employment, which impacts the budget.
And a lot of times people get in the habit of, let's say, for example, on your car payment.
If your car payment is dependent on the military spouse working and you get orders and you move
and they lose their job, then you're not able to make that car payment or if you move
and they're able to get a job, but they're not making as much as they used to, you're not
probably going to be able to make it in full.
And so the transitions can start this problem of getting behind and not making payments
on time, but also not building up the savings or you build it up and then you end up dwindling
it down because maybe of un and under employment.
And so that is, I think, a really big problem or just at the heart of a lot of other issues
that impact the military financially.
I think some things about the age, you're younger, you're earning a very steady paycheck
and there are a lot of people that prey on that fact, that you're younger, maybe don't
have as much life experience, getting your first car, getting your first home, you don't
want to get in trouble at work, so you don't want to get behind on stuff, so you might
take out a loan that is riskier with a higher interest rate.
And that can start also into a snowball problem.
There's also things like identity theft, which are a huge problem for the military community
because of the transition, service numbers being deployed, those type of things.
So I think, you know, those three and then sometimes the income, depending on the location
that you're at.
So for example, if you're a service member station in San Diego, the cost of living is
so much more expensive there.
And then just the economy and the home market, it makes it difficult for a service member
to get an affordable rental or even to buy a home.
A lot of people can't even find a home to buy in some locations.
And so that is very difficult where they start dipping in further into their budget,
money, maybe they don't have in order to be able to afford a home in a decent location,
going back to the safety and security area.
So I think, you know, some of it compounds on each other.
Sure.
Does there seem to be more of a lack of financial instruction among new recruits or enlistees
versus the general population?
I'm curious if there are steps that are taken with folks who are joining the military
in order to kind of get them up to speed because they are sort of like you said, they are
being thrust into life at a potentially younger age than many of their peers who might
say go off to school and, you know, you're kind of like a part-time adult when you're
off in college to a certain extent.
You're making that slow adjustment.
Yeah, it's more gradual and with that, you get some of that life experience.
I'm curious, if you have personally seen financial literacy be a big issue, be a big problem
with the military?
No, I think that there are a lot of opportunities for service members and their spouses and
their family members to get financial help on many different levels, whether that's just
information, whether that's one-on-one counseling and coaching.
And there's actual touch points that the Department of Defense has out from the time that
you join until the time that you separate a retire that relate to finance, that starting
at boot camp or your technical school, there's also some there, your follow-on.
Education, when you get to your first duty location.
So there's all of these touch points that they actually have to by law receive financial
help.
That's awesome.
Yes, it really is.
Like instruction, like not help per se, but actual like guidance or where they're kind
of being coached.
Yes, yes.
So there's classes.
Now I'm not saying that they do sometimes do it the best time, like, you know, it's like
right after you return.
The quality.
We'll see.
Yeah, that's what you have to be determined.
Yes.
Yes.
It's definitely there.
There's also free resources, like military one source that isn't from within your unit
where you could go outside of your area.
Maybe if you're not comfortable with somebody from your work scene that you're getting financial
help, that type of thing.
So there are these opportunities to get free help, kind of no matter where you're at.
Whether you're in crisis, you just need a little coaching.
You need a, you know, sounding board, you know, second set of eyes on something.
They don't do financial advising, you know, for many reasons, you know, they're not recommending
any products or, you know, want that liability of giving financial advice, but they're definitely
educating service members and their families.
But I think that's awesome.
Yeah, it really is.
And it's just kind of getting the word out there.
I think one of the major problems and kind of why do what I do is that, unfortunately,
if you work for the government many times, your education experiences discounted.
So if I go to a military installation, I work under a contract for the Department of Defense,
I might have a hard time getting people to come in and talk to me because it's like,
what does she know?
She's just kind of a government employee.
She has this job.
They can't fire her versus if I went in and said, Hey, I'm a podcaster.
I'm a blogger.
I have my own coaching business.
I'm taking more seriously because I'm not affiliated with the government, which is,
you know, crazy because I'm the same person, but just, yeah, I can put it to a different
bucket.
The street cred is just people, yeah, perceived you.
Yes.
But I think that applies, it's not an issue that's unique to the military.
I think that it is all over that it's the person that's giving the advice that really
is the key to success.
So if you are not authentic in who you are, if you're not sincere, if you don't have
that street cred, you know, if you're serving a community that you have no experience
with, like that would be me going and doing financial coaching for firefighters.
I don't know their world.
I don't understand their struggles.
So they would have to basically educate me on their life before I could even help them
with money.
And that's not where they want to be.
They want to get right to solutions.
They're coming to you for help.
And so I think that has a lot to do with sometimes why people don't take advantage of
free resources or opportunities to get financial help is because of the person that's, you
know, giving it in if they're real in their advice.
Yeah.
I think being relatable matters.
A whole lot.
Being able to connect.
The actual person who they go to see because I could completely change the perception as
to, oh, no, that program's totally bogus, but if you get somebody amazing, and I know
that you did a bunch of volunteering with, you know, through some of those different
programs, Lacey.
And I'm sure you did a great job.
And I'm sure a lot of folks were like, oh, man, no, this is an amazing program because
I was able to connect with this lady.
Yeah.
So much depends on the individual you're learning from.
Same thing when we talk about personal finance education in high schools that we're, we
like the idea of it, but it's not a certainty that it's going to be a slam dunk every time
because so much depends on who is actually delivering the information and how much they
care about it, right?
And how much they know.
You touched on buying versus renting really quickly.
I am curious.
That is like such a particular conundrum for people in the military.
Can you, how do you, like, walk people through that, whether or not they should buy?
It seems like because of a limited time period in a specific place, even if they have the
financial ability that, and they've been able to find something that are like, oh, man,
this would be great for my family.
Well, if they're going to move, you know, 24 months down the road anyway, do you kind of
advise against buying for military families most of the time?
Yeah.
I would say I'd, you know, help lead people to making a decision that's best for them,
but definitely pointed out that, hey, there's a lot of investment that's going to go into
buying this house and time.
That's the other part that's difficult in the military is that you are basically restarting
every two, two and a half years, and that's on the average, you know, some people are
moving every year.
So that's very difficult to, you know, close on a home, get that all set up, get in your
community, and all that time and effort that you put into it to just sell it, or sometimes
not sell it, because that happens a lot in the military community.
And even to know where's a great place to buy, let's be honest, because usually if you
haven't lived in that place, you're like, you're kind of shooting in the dark about
where the specific area you might want to live in a particular town.
Oh, yes, especially in a military community.
I always say, if you were even thinking about buying, you need to go check out that house
morning, noon a night, because there is, you learn a lot when you go, well, the big thing
for the military community is getting in now, the gate.
And so if you are in an area where a lot of military have bought homes, it's like a military
carpool.
I think about that.
And it takes so much more time.
So this kind of goes back to, you know, you might actually be able to buy a home for
a little bit more in a different area.
But that means that you can now spend more time at home, maybe come home after PT, and
then go back to work because your commute isn't as long as somebody else where in some
cases, source members leave an hour early or two to work, because I was actually just
talking with somebody that they were saying that they used to, you know, not her husband
didn't come home till 8 p.m. because he had to wait for the traffic to die down.
And so there's all these factors that go into it.
And it's hard to sell a home if the person you're selling it to has done that check to
say, wait a minute, this actually is not a really good location for commuting and stuff
like that.
And so there's all these things to go into it, not to mention, if you are moving to
a location and maybe your spouse is getting ready to do deployment or do training, because
often you know that going into it, like as soon as we get there, they're leaving.
And so now you've put all this effort into and time into buying a home versus just running
a house, getting moved in and being together as a family before you leave.
So there's all of these factors, I think, that go into home buying and renting that people
don't often think about.
Yeah, certainly we've kind of covered a lot of the different challenges and hurdles
that service members and military members have to consider.
We're not trying to talk folks out of Tony, the military, because there are some incredible
benefits, specifically financial benefits, and we're going to cover a bunch of those
right after the break.
Everness wise, we had virtually no evidence.
We had the word of a 15-year-old who told lies, a lot of lies.
A lot, a lot of lies.
In 1995, Detective Tony Richardson was trying to figure out who killed a fellow officer,
Deputy Bill Hardy.
Without solid evidence, the case comes down to who is believed and who is ignored.
We did come into medicine, man, and he's been on death row all these years, and I didn't
know it.
I'm Beth Schelburn from Lava for Good Podcasts.
This is Ear Witness.
Listen to Ear Witness on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
podcasts.
And to hear episodes with no ads, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
And join us for a new podcast for brand new.
So what's actually new about brand new?
Well, Steven and I are not only working C-suite executives, we're friends.
My friend Meris has actually one of the most influential chief marketing officers in
the world.
And hey, Steven has a story career across finance, tech, and multicultural entertainment.
Because of that, we've got a lot to say about the world of tech, entertainment, advertising,
media, and marketing, what we actually call team.
We always adore each other, but don't always agree with each other, and that's part of
the fun.
We'll talk from the inside, sometimes personal talk too.
And it's meant for everyone, rising in business, or just interested in it.
In each episode, we give our hot takes on hot topics, and always answer what's on your
minds too.
Just look for the brand new podcast on the iHeart Podcast network, or wherever you listen.
It's a brand new conversation that you won't want to miss.
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Let's keep the conversation going.
We're talking about what it looks like to be in the military.
To serve the country.
But also become a millionaire at the same time.
And we talked about Matt some of the hurdles to being in the military.
It's not easy.
It is a sacrifice.
And we're talking with Lacey Langford specifically about that.
But Lacey, we want to talk about some of these benefits.
And some of the ways that you can join the military.
And still end up with a seven figure retirement.
But I guess I wanted to ask you about your sphere of influence.
And that's something that you're big on.
You talk about controlling the things that we can control.
And why do you put such an emphasis on that?
I feel like there's so much discussion these days about things that aren't really in our control.
Things that politicians might or might not do.
Ways that that could influence us financially.
But a lot of that, I don't know.
It's hard to grab onto.
Yeah, I think that's wasted energy.
The only thing you truly have control over is yourself and how you react to something.
And when you serve in the military, there are great benefits that come to that.
I always tell people the best decision I ever made for myself was joining the military.
You know, that was before children, before anybody else.
And that, I think, was kind of a pivotal moment in my life.
And, you know, there are hard times.
But that's any job.
That's anything in life that you do.
But there are great things that come with it.
And, you know, the military has a lot of say in what you do.
And where you go, when you go, how you're going to dress.
What you're going to do in your free time.
You know, it's a 24-7 job.
And those things are completely out of your control.
But the thing you can control is when you're told I'm going somewhere short notice.
Okay, how can I handle this?
How can I handle this best for myself and for my family?
You know, how can I handle the thought that's looming?
I might be leaving.
I might be moving.
You know, my spouse might be out of a job soon.
So if you spend all your time worrying about those things,
that takes up the time that you could be spending on getting on the offense.
Okay, let's build up our savings.
Let's, you know, make a PCS-proof job.
Or let's get with a company that is, you know, virtually based.
What do we have control over that we can do to make our financial situation
and our quality of life consistent no matter what the military throws at us?
I think is really important in knowing your goals.
And then, you know, controlling what you can control.
I think helps you find more success.
Okay, so let's get to the goods, Lacey.
What are the biggest financial perks of joining the military?
Because I think the pay might be low when you are first enlisting.
But there are a host of other benefits that we would love for you to share with our listeners.
Yes, so well, first of all, it's a steady paycheck.
That's one thing that is really good, especially when you're 18 years old.
I joined when I was 19 and that was huge.
I was able to, you know, pay off some credit card debt I had and save money.
So that is wonderful.
You also have medical benefits.
So I was always taking care of when I was sick.
I had one time head in pneumonia in every part of my body or every part of my lungs.
And, you know, all of that was taking care of for me.
You know, they, you know, all the medication, the hospital visits,
all of those things was covered.
That's try care, right?
And it's basically the best health insurance policy available anywhere.
Essentially.
Yes.
I mean, some people will debate that, but I think it is the best.
In fact, now that my husband is retired and we still have try care,
all the time when I go to the doctor, you know, if it's a question of,
is it covered, you know, we'll have to research it.
And then I'm like, well, we have try care.
I'm like, oh, no, it's going to be covered.
So it's like, they, you know, it is, it is a really good benefit to have.
Yeah.
That's really where the money's at.
So again, being the, a kid, I wasn't an army brat.
So we never moved around, but my, my father, with him being in the,
being in the military, being in the army.
I definitely remember many visits to the on post hospital,
but yeah, not having to basically pay anything for all the broken arms that I had.
Like, as a kid, I know that's something that my parents certainly appreciated.
Yeah.
All those hospital visits.
Oh, yeah, definitely.
My parents too with four kids and just always pushing each other
or doing something stupid.
Stitches, broken bones.
Yeah.
Well, I like that you mentioned a study paycheck.
And you mentioned, too, how, like, you joined it 19.
And for a lot of people, Matt mentioned, oh, well, you know,
the pay is not great early on, necessarily, which is, which is kind of true.
But it's also kind of not true because compared to your peers,
and what they'd be able to earn, you kind of, you're starting out of the gate,
earning a decent amount compared to other people who are in their teens, right?
Oh, definitely.
Yes.
I mean, because that's, it's not just a study paycheck and the income
that you're going to make, it's those benefits.
So receiving free medical care is huge.
And not to mention all the medication, you know, especially if you have something
that you need all of the time, that's a huge savings as well.
But then also the education benefits.
I joined it 19.
I earned a study paycheck, but I also earned a free education.
Or I had the old GI Bill.
And so it doesn't, I didn't pay as much as the post on 11 GI Bill.
But that's still made it so I could get out of college without paying anything.
You know, I worked to help make up the difference while I was in college.
But I did a lot of nontraditional things like I hosted parties for my apartment complex.
And so they gave, they discounted my rent for throwing a party.
So.
Wow.
Yeah, I know.
That's like Joel's dream job.
Can I get paid for a single party?
Yes.
Yeah, I had to do it once a month for all of the college students.
Because I was older when I actually started back to school while I was on active duty.
But then separated and finished my education.
So that was, you know, they were looking for somebody that had a little bit more life experience.
But was, you know, still a student.
So it worked out well for me.
So you mentioned the post 9-11 GI Bill, which changed a lot.
And it really kind of opened up kind of even more educational benefits to people who serve.
And, but it doesn't even have to be like a traditional four-year degree, right?
That's covered like there's one you get room and board covered, right?
And there's certification certifications or flight school, that kind of stuff.
That there's all sorts of ways that this can be used.
And you can even transfer benefits of the GI Bill to a family member, is that right?
Correct.
If you have a certain time left in the military and you commit to a certain time,
then yes, you can transfer your benefits to your spouse or any of your dependents.
So your child or anybody that's basically in your deer's account can receive that benefit.
But yes, what you said too is true.
There's so many ways you can use it now for certificates, you know, if you wanted to do a welding program.
And to be honest, I mean, even if it wasn't like you could probably submit and ask for a waiver of some sort.
But there really are trying to make sure that, you know, when you get out of the military,
make this transition to your next career path that you have what you need to do that.
That you are equipped.
Oh, I love that.
I love that they're also willing or you said welding.
So it makes me think of just the skilled trades and the supplies low when it comes to those who have
who are blue collar workers who have those skilled trades.
But I think that's fantastic.
Let's kind of get more financial and nerdy with it, I guess.
But a retirement plans.
Can we talk about that?
That the just some of the different things that the military offers.
How generous are they?
Because my dad's got a pension.
So like he's got that regular payment, but I know things have changed.
Now it's, it acts a little bit more like a 401k.
Can you kind of outline what is available these days?
Yes, so basically prior to the end of 2017, most people that served in the military,
I think the stat was 85% of people that served in the military left with no retirement.
So that means that they separated or some reason got out of the military before they were eligible to receive a pension.
Which is like 20 years, right?
Yes.
And I mean, there are some nuances.
Like if you got selected in a forced reduction, then you probably could retire at, you know, at 17.
It just, you know, in 2018, they did do that.
They reduced the force.
So and there's been other times in history of the military that that's happened.
But, but that's an act of Congress that makes it so you can retire with less.
But on the whole, it's 20 years.
So that was really, you know, not good that so many people were serving.
I mean, 10 years or 12 years, 15 years.
Missing out all that amazing benefit.
Yep. And getting out and then never receiving their pension.
And so what they did, and it's also to a retention feature and recruiting feature,
is that they changed the retirement system.
So you are still eligible for a pension after 20 years.
But now they've incorporated a, you know, a type of 401k, which it already had was the TSP, the Thrift Savings Plan,
is the, you know, the federal government's retirement contribution plan.
And so what it was was that you could give money to your TSP, but there was no match.
And, you know, some people didn't take advantage of the TSP, which was a real bummer,
or in the beginning when it started out, they contributed your money to the G Fund,
which was basically, you know, government securities, and was losing money with inflation.
And so if you never went in and changed your funds, then after 20 years, you basically had no money.
Or, you know, it's like investing your 401k dollars within a money market account, basically.
Correct. And like two or three percent.
Yes. And so it basically hurt people in that way.
And then they changed it to the life cycle fund, so they made some changes.
But ultimately, now, if you join the military now, you are in what they call the blended retirement system,
which is the new, you can receive a pension after 20 years, but you also receive a matching contribution
to your Thrift Savings Plan.
Instead of automatically, when you join, you could, you know, opt out of it for, I don't know why you would do that, but you could.
And so now, like receiving a government match for, right, any amount that, or I guess, what is the match?
It's like that 4%, right? 5%.
5%? Okay, here it is.
So 1% is automatic, you know, doesn't matter what you contribute.
The government is going to put in 1%.
Okay.
And then after that, it's up to 4% if you put that in.
And the fees are really low too, right?
So I mean, this is like one of the best retirement accounts available.
Yes, it really is. It's, you know, depending on all of them are low.
You know, your return obviously is going to depend on which of the five funds that you put it in.
So they have life cycle funds, which is equivalent of a target date fund.
And then they have five funds index funds that you could put your money into, which it's, you know, super low.
And then now receiving the match is such a discounted rate or low rate.
And then also now they have incorporated mutual funds, which is a new thing for the Thrift Savings Plan.
So you're eligible to do that, but it's something like you have to have $40,000 in your Thrift Savings Plan.
And basically you create this window through your MyPay account and you're able to contribute money to start up a mutual fund account.
But it requires a minimum of $10,000.
So there's more requirements for that.
And that's, you know, within the last six months or a year is new.
Okay.
So there's still adjusting to that.
But yeah, the Thrift Savings Plan is huge.
And the big thing is that if you decide that you don't want to stay in the military for 20 years,
you now will walk away with a retirement account, which is huge.
Which is with something.
That's amazing.
Yeah. And it's, you basically have the ability to have your cake and eat it too.
I mean, you're getting the TSP with the match, but also if you stick it out and you end up,
yeah, staying there for at least 20 years, the ability to walk away with that pension.
In addition to that TSP, that's pretty sweet.
Yeah, it sets you up.
And most people, like I'm sure, don't join the military thinking, oh, the healthcare and the retirement.
And like, look at this.
20 years down the road.
I'm going to be completely financially secure.
I just got to make it from 19 to 39, right?
But I'm sure a lot of people once they wait into the details, if they realize these things,
they're probably saying to themselves, wait a second.
This could be my first career.
I could be essentially financially independent after 20 years of service.
And then I can, I can get that education.
I can have the retirement savings.
I can have the pension.
And then I can move on and do something else.
Like, does it happen to a lot of people where it's like a next career, but I've already kind of
taken care of all the financial stuff that's really important.
It does.
I mean, I'm sure that there's, there are a lot of people also that don't financially prepare.
And then 20 years somehow sneaks up on you.
And then it's like, wait a minute now, what am I going to do?
I didn't save as much as I should have.
But for a lot of people, they are actually saving big money on active duty.
I had this one kid.
He was, I think, 20 years old.
And he didn't have a college degree, but he got trained up by the military for IT work.
And heavy, you know, under having a security clearance.
So very private stuff that he was doing.
And he received a very large bonus every year.
That's another part.
If you work in a critically manned field, or, you know, where they're really trying to retain you,
because you could get out as a civilian, make a lot more money, you're receiving a large bonus.
It could be, you know, $50,000 a year on top of your normal pay and benefits.
Wow.
But this, that's a lot of money.
It is.
Wait, so, so what is a critically manned field?
Is that just a department or field where there's just either requires a high level skill,
or there's just a demand for that position to be filled?
Yes.
So, you know, combat arms, people that are going to be fighting.
I don't know that there's, and it changes.
It's based on recruitment numbers.
So, it just, if you have, you know, we're able to get a lot of people in this field,
then, and retain them, then probably not going to get a bonus.
But if you're having a hard time getting people in a field like bomb disposal,
then they're probably going to give a bonus to encourage people to join.
So, those type of things, but it's easy.
And, yeah, well, that makes sense.
I mean, if you're, if you're the hurt locker, like you should be getting paid a heck of a lot more,
then somebody who's crunching numbers back in an office, but an air-conditioned office, right?
Yeah.
Or like doctors, you know, or dentists, attorneys, things like that could,
that could get out and make a lot of money, they need to retain them.
Okay. So, you've got an interesting history.
You actually, I mean, so you left the Air Force.
I did.
Do I understand it correctly?
You didn't quite stick it out long enough to get that pension,
but I'm curious what it is that made you go ahead and pull and leave the Air Force.
I got out after four years of serving.
It was one of the most difficult decisions I made.
I still sometimes think, man, did I make the right one?
Because I really enjoyed serving in the military.
Again, not completely easy, but I served during peacetime.
I actually got out just a couple months before 9-11.
And, but I come from a large military family.
So, you know, my siblings are still on active duty.
You know, married into the military,
a lot of friends in the military.
And so, that's something that really comes with, I guess,
my family is serving.
And so, I think all the time was at the right decision.
But I really wanted to go back to school.
I was also at that point, dating my husband.
It was really serious.
And we were really weighing.
Do we want to be what they call dual military?
You know, and have children where there's a potential that we're both going to leave at the same time.
Which, you know, ended up being a smart decision because 9-11 was a couple of months after that.
And then my husband was immediately gone all the time.
So, that turned out to be the correct decision there.
But I really wanted to pursue my education and finance.
I grew up in a, again, a Bless Household where we talked about money.
I didn't always listen to my parents.
I will say, especially when I was young and enlisted.
You glossed over the credit card debt part of your story earlier.
We heard you, but we don't need to bring it up again.
Yes, yes.
I did that a few times.
But in still, you know, not perfect with money.
I like to always say that on my podcast too, like financial professionals aren't immune to making the best decisions all the time.
But anyway, but I wanted to further my education.
I wanted to take it to the next level for my children to learn more about investments and building wealth and, you know, financial freedom.
And that's why I think I started, you know, on this path.
And I had good intentions of it being so traditional and being a financial advisor.
And then being a military spouse made that very difficult to have a traditional career in finance.
And so that's how I've kind of lily padded or taken a non-traditional path in my career to get where I'm at.
Kind of adapted.
Yeah.
No, I like that because you have to.
Like you were talking about earlier with military spouse careers and stuff like that.
You've got to be flexible if nothing else.
Lacey, we've got a couple more questions we want to get to with you, including one other specific financial or and federal act that people need to know about.
If they're going to serve in the military that provides financial benefits, we'll get to questions on that and more right after this.
We are back from the break talking with Lacey Langford on how to get from the military to millionaire status and Lacey right before the break Joll hinted at this act.
But let's talk about the Service Members Civil Relief Act because that offers some specific financial relief for members who are serving overseas.
Is that correct?
Well, the Service Member Civil Relief Act is really focused on debt that you incurred before you joined the military.
Then there is the Military Lending Act, which focuses on active duty service members and their spouses and their families in order to protect them financially.
So the Service Member Civil Relief Act or the SCRA, it makes it so, let's say you took out a credit card and you ran it up to $10,000 in your interest rate was 13% before you joined.
The military will under the SCRA they have to reduce it to 6%.
So it's a huge savings on your interest rate and being able to pay back that debt quicker for service members.
And that's what it's meant like you're joining now and it provides that protection for them.
And it actually goes through legal and the jack offices on the installations to help people with that.
But most banks now and financial institutions are well aware of this benefit and that they have to lower it to 6%.
And one of the things too, is it part of the Service Member Civil Relief Act or the Military Lending Act?
But if someone who serves in the military has a credit card with an annual fee, that annual fee is supposed to be waived while they're serving overseas.
And some of these credit card companies say, we're just going to waive it all together every single year while you're serving.
So sometimes you can have like an American Express credit card with like a $695 annual fee.
That's just waived if you're in the military, right?
Yes. Well, what it is actually is that the interpretation of those laws, the Military Lending Act and the SCRA, more so the Military Lending Act, which that started with trying to protect people from payday loans.
But yes, it's hard to interpret some of those laws, financial institutions, credit card companies.
And so that's what they end up doing is leaning towards like, well, we're just going to waive it because there's some nuances to things and it's easier to just go ahead and waive those fees, lower your interest rate.
Often times they'll do that just especially if you're getting ready to deploy, that's another feature is a lot of especially military banks will lower your interest rates during your deployments to 6%.
Even if it's something that you took on after you joined the military, a lot of times they'll put it down to 6% or 5% while you're gone.
But yes, the annual fee, that's a huge thing with the American Express Platinum, especially if you're getting ready to get out, a lot of in the military community is like, go ahead and get it because they'll waive it for that first year, then you get all those benefits.
Very nice. So Lacey, you talked about the GI Bill and how essentially a lot, virtually anything can be covered out.
I like that for you, you went back to school, if somebody else wants to go learn how to weld, that's great as well. Certainly that'll help a lot of folks to transition back to civilian life.
But aside from that, aside from kind of the education and training, do you think that there is any sort of prep work that folks in the military should do as they're getting ready to exit military service?
Basically, what are the biggest obstacles you think when entering civilian life after, let's say, a couple decades of service?
That's a really great question. And 100% yes, you should be preparing your finances to get out of the military in least two years out.
And the reason why is because it is a major transition, especially if you've served 20 years, your identity is changing, your career is changing.
And it's not just you, it's your family, it's your spouse. And so it's really important for everybody to start preparing for this transition because you know, you may get a job making the same amount of money, but a lot of your benefits aren't taxed.
So you receive a basic allowance for subsistence, your BAS for food, you receive a basic allowance for housing or BAH.
When it says allowance, that means that that's tax-free. But when you get out, that money is going to be taxed.
So you're not going to be making as much money as you thought. Also too, a lot of service members, the ops tempo has lowered a lot, but you've done a lot of deployments where you have received a year salary or six months salary tax-free because you're in a hostile duty area, which has lowered your income.
And you haven't paid as much taxes or any taxes. And so then you get out and now you're paying taxes and that's a shock to people.
And so also the location, you know, are you moving? Are you going to stay in the same spot?
Do you need a certificate to perform your duty in the civilian world? Aviation is a good example of that.
If you want to be an AMP mechanic, an airframe and power plant, you work on plans in the military without an AMP license.
Well, if you're going to do that at a major airport or anywhere in the aviation industry, you're going to need AMP license.
So you should start getting that while you're in active duty where your education benefits can pay for it.
And then you're ready to work in that job, making that full amount when you get out.
So there's all these nuances to prepare your finances for, but also your quality of life, your mental health, to make this transition out that starting early on can make the transition less stressful for you and your family.
Sounds like in some ways you got to make hay while the sun shines, prepare in advance, save while taxes are low because of these allowances and stuff like that.
We'll start saving and investing more during that time period. So when you get out, like there's not as much of a fire under your.
So that cultural to us, right? Culture shock. Yeah.
Okay. So I'm quite I'm curious. We've got a lot of listeners who are in their teens and early 20s. That's like my favorite when we get listener questions from people who are still in their teens still in high school.
Yeah, they listen, but that might be the time when it's most appealing to make a bigger life decision like joining the military.
And I don't know if somebody might be listening in that and they said with perks like that, why not?
Do you think people should let the financial benefits tail kind of wag the dog here and what else should they be considering before they sign up to serve?
If you're willing to do what's asked of you when it comes time, you know, 9-11 is a really great example.
Many people had served a long time during peacetime and they were called up, you know, to deploy to to be in combats.
You know, the medical personnel were required to be there to treat people that had combat wounds.
So, you know, doesn't matter what your job is, you your ultimate mission is to support, you know, and defend the Constitution.
So if you're, you know, the benefits are really great, but know that at some point that could be asked of you.
That's what you're training for. That's what you're doing your job for.
And so keep that in the back of your mind, but that doesn't mean that it's not a good thing or that that will actually happen.
And then also the moves, you know, moving is a lot on some people, especially if you've grown up in a hometown and you've never been away from home.
So that's something to think about as well.
But there are so many great things, so many great friendships.
I mean, there's so much, you know, brotherhood and sisterhood bonding in the military, friendships that will last you a lifetime, even, you know, no matter where, where or how you serve.
So I think that, you know, you just have to weigh the pros and cons before you make that decision.
But, you know, there is a lot of great things that can come out of it besides just the financial benefits, but, you know, you have to be willing to do the job too.
You've got to be willing to deploy. You've got to be willing to move before you think about the army like Ben Foltz did and where he chose not to join the army.
But Lazy, this has been an awesome conversation. Thank you so much for just sharing some of the insights, some of your personal experience, but also just some of the other things, some of the other benefits, but other things that you should consider.
Where can folks learn more about you? You've got a podcast. We want to make sure that folks can learn even more about the military. Where can they find all that information?
Yes, definitely. Please check out my podcast anywhere. They're found the Military Money Show. You can also find me at lacylingford.com, and the podcast is there as well.
Or anywhere on social media, lacylingford and the Military Money Show, you can reach out to me. I love to chat.
Well, lacy will link to all that in the show notes up on howdomoney.com, but thank you again for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
Nice. All right, Joel. Great conversation with Lay. Did you get my Ben Foltz reference?
Oh, yeah. I love me some bit.
You worked at Chick-fil-A. That I did.
As a teenager, did you ever consider the army?
Not really. No, but it wasn't my dad had been served, and so it was not really in my family history.
Yeah.
So I don't know why. It was never really talked about.
My uncle served, but did you, was there a ROTC at your school?
There was. Yeah. It wasn't something.
So it was more marching band than ROTC, though.
Yeah, it's interesting with my dad being in the army.
It was never something that where he was just like, hey, you got to join the army as well.
So I don't know. I appreciate his willingness to let me blaze my own trail, my own path.
But do you have a big takeaway?
Yeah. I do.
So I think that what stood out to me was, I think I've got two, by the way.
Oh, I'm going to do two quick ones.
All right. I think people serving in the military have different problems, but they have different perks.
So some of the perks are astronaut, and they're insane.
And so when you talk about serving in the military, having that pension for life,
giving that 5% match in addition to essentially free health care, right?
All those, and some of the tax-free income and stipends allowances that you're leaving.
The BHA, or BAH.
That's a lot of income, essentially, that you're receiving that the government isn't,
they have control over other aspects of your lives, right?
You're not getting taxed on a lot of that much.
So the perks are insane, but also the problems are different.
And so you're signing up, there's a big trade-off some both fronts.
And so it's like, wow, I'm going to get this, this, and this.
But wow, I'm going to have to sacrifice this, this, and this.
And so I think it does have to be in some ways a calling for people to say,
all right, this is the direction I want to go in.
Don't let the tail wag the dog.
Sure.
Even though I think for a lot of people who are on the fence, this might help them see, wait a second.
Oh, man, I thought it was going to be a financial sacrifice, too.
But maybe in actuality, it's not.
No.
Maybe it's going to fuel my ability to reach financial independence.
Yeah, especially if you're a 19-year-old, like the ability to put in 20 years,
well, 19, 29, 39 years old, like what a, you know, great time.
I think to potentially relaunch or not relaunch, but just start an entirely new career
to try to try something different.
You got that free education while you were at it.
You got to get the development and get the degree.
It's so great for that next second career.
I love it.
And I think it's really important that we're taking care of our service members.
So I get to reduce my two big takeaways down to one because you kind of touched on one of my,
which is the, like the willingness, like you've, you got to make sure that you're willing
to take this seriously.
Like you don't just do it for the perks.
You need to basically be willing to put your life on the line.
And then so my other, so my true takeaway is before we even really got to talking about the military stuff,
I really liked how she talked about how her parents talked to her and her siblings about money
and is how she is talking to her sons about money as well.
But she said that I am raising you to be fully functioning adults.
And I think that is such a great way to think about all the things that we encounter as we're raising our kids, right?
So whether there's an obstacle that's in front of our kid, sometimes we want to remove those obstacles, right?
But sometimes we want to let them remain in order for our kids to learn and for them to overcome those obstacles as well.
The ability for us to teach our kids in ways via different lessons,
whether it be through like a part-time high school job.
There are things that they are likely going to learn working for a company, having a boss, somebody that isn't their parent
who has told them what to do for the past 16 years of their life.
They're going to learn some of these lessons and I think that's just an awesome sort of filter to run some of these questions through.
By doing this or by not doing this for you, am I training you up to be a fully functioning adult?
I think that's awesome.
Parenting advice.
I still think that high school job, it's just a job of Chick-fil-A across from high school.
But I'm going back to being full.
I kind of that to a lot, honestly, in my life.
Just having to look people in the eye, having to show up on time.
Like there were a lot of intangible, intangible skills I learned working in fast food.
Having to deal with an irate customer, even if I wasn't the one who caused the issue,
I would tell most parents, hey, I think it's probably a really good idea for your kid to get a high school job.
Even if it's only seven or eight hours a week, it's those skills that you learn.
It's not about the money, it's not about the income.
You don't make much.
I was making $5.15 an hour.
Yeah, it gave me a little bit of money and helped me figure out how to use the money that was coming in.
But it was all those other things where they were even more important.
Absolutely.
Just that little bit of exposure, I think, can go such a long way.
All right, let's get back to the beer.
And we actually have a crazy...
It's funny because this sort of seems like just a random Wednesday episode,
what we're talking to, I guess.
But we've got a crazy, crazy good beer that we're enjoying today.
I thought you might actually even say something at the beginning because it's so special.
Because normally on our guest interviews, we don't really bore them with the details of what we're drinking.
Right.
We say that for the end.
But tell everybody what we're drinking.
All right, so this is the Cantillon Goose, which is...
I mean, just one of the finest beers in all the world, the entire world, literally.
Yeah, this brewery is out of Belgium.
And Emily and I, we had the good fortune to go check out this brewery in person nine years ago.
And I bought this bottle nine years ago, brought it home.
And this is the last bottle, I mean, I literally brought 37 beers home from that trip.
This is the last one.
This is the last one.
And we're sharing it on today's episode.
It's really the reason it was up in the office.
Because didn't you bring it in after, like, when you all were moving?
So at the beginning of the summer, when the construction was happening to the house.
Yeah.
You had to move a lot of stuff at your house.
Isn't that when you brought this Cantillon to the office?
Yeah.
And so it kind of sat there in the fridge.
And we're like, why not?
And we're like, hey.
Why?
We should have enjoyed this one on our 700th episode.
That would have been a good way to commemorate.
But instead...
Why not, Brandon?
We're talking with Lacey about military millionaires.
But, man, yeah.
So did you enjoy this beer?
Yeah, very much.
I mean, you brought back just the visit.
All the memories.
The scent in that place.
Well, it was...
I mean, I can't even describe it.
It was beautiful.
It was...
Bucket list.
Visit for me.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
The ability to go to Cantillon in person.
I want to go back so we'll do it together.
We'll do it together.
But yeah, they...
I'm all about it.
This beer...
I think the biggest word that I can attribute to it is funky.
Like, these Cantillon beers have this special funk because of the way that they are brewed in the way.
And I got to see it.
The way they put the beer in the cool ship.
With the windows open, like, these natural yeast of the air interact with this beer creating this.
These, like, really unique funky flavors.
But not overly funky.
Because that's the thing.
Yeah.
I've had some farmhouses that are produced stateside.
That were...
That I would say are funkier from like...
Too much.
A blue cheese standpoint.
The balance that they are able to pack into this bottle.
And the fact that, yes, you got this nine years ago.
And that this beer was so stable enough.
To not go completely off the...
Off the table.
Or wouldn't...
To not basically go bad.
Blows my mind.
I was...
Honestly, I was thinking...
Man, there's a chance that this might be a letdown because it's not what you remember.
Or we can just tell that...
Oh, wow.
It continued...
Oh, yeah.
It lost something.
All the sugars are...
Like, it continued to the yeast or the alcohol continue to develop.
And there's a zero sugar left.
And it's just turning our mouth inside out, basically.
But I am blown away with the finesse, the balance, the flavors that are in this...
In this beer.
Yeah.
Truly impressed.
It only reaffirms my desire to go to Cantillon.
It's one of the common person.
Absolutely.
And the...
You're tasting...
You're drinking the air in the surrounding village there.
And there was one other brew I didn't get to.
I was there.
Driefontaine, which makes similar, awesome, lambic style beers the same style.
And so, when I go back, spontaneously fermented beers.
I got to get there.
Also, the next time we go.
But so good.
We'll put on the list.
Very appreciative of you sharing.
Oh, yeah, man.
I'm glad we got to have it.
All right, let's go do it for this episode.
We'll put links to everything we mentioned in the show notes.
Up at HowToMoney.com.
And if you're interested in joining the military and the benefits that come alongside of it,
we'll link to Lacey's information to her website and her podcast too.
You know it, buddy.
That is going to be it for this one.
So until next time, best friends out.
Best friends out.