Different Equipment, Different Scenarios

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But welcome to the hunting gear podcast. I'm your host, Dan Johnson. And today we have another really good conversation with another member of the Sportsman's Empire, Mr. Nate Thomas from the Missouri Woods and Water podcast. And I like having Nate on because although we have different, we have hunting similarities, we also do a lot of things differently. So we're going to talk today about broadheads. We're going to talk today about the difference between I have a 30-inch draw. I think he said he has a 27 or 28-inch draw. So he has to shoot a shorter arrow. I have the ability to shoot a longer arrow with a mechanical broadhead. He talks about why he chooses fixed blades. We talk about saddles. We talk about ground blinds. We talk about hang-ons and what scenarios to use those in or what scenarios we use those in compared to different times a year, different setups. Is it a pinch point? Is it a rut spot? Is it easy to access? Is it a morning hunt? Is it an afternoon hunt? So we really get into all of these, you know, all of these really good details about, I guess it's really like four or five products today. But it's a good conversation and I know you guys, if you guys are gear nuts, I know you're going to enjoy it. Do me a favor. Go to iTunes. Leave a five-star review on the hunting gear podcast. Let everybody know that it's a good quality podcast. It's unbiased. A lot of the information comes straight from the manufacturer. When we do some of these deep dives into specific manufacturers, hunting gear, hunting product manufacturers, I'm really looking forward to that. And then what do I want to do? What do I want to do? Oh, so leave a five-star review. If you have any questions about products, per se, or if you have some kind, you know, any questions or there's something you want to talk about, hit me up, through Instagram, the nine finger chronicles is the best way. Send me a message, say, hey, Dan, talk about this or get this company on the podcast. And I'll do my best to do that. So appreciate all you guys listening and making this podcast pretty popular. And then we do have one commercial today. And that is Code Blue. So Code Blue is a brand new podcast for a brand new partner of the nine finger chronicles and the hunting gear podcast. And if you're not familiar with them, you need to go check out their website. I'm really interested in the mock scrape kits that they have. Because this year I'm going to be, I've been planning on doing for years now. I've been planning on doing some, you know, setting up some mock scrapes. So I have two main farms. I'd love to get a couple of mock scrapes on each farm. They have a very simple kit that allows you to do that. And so I am, I'm looking forward to running a lot of mock scrapes. If you're the scent type of guy, whether that is, you know, you want scent elimination products, or you're looking for the dough and estrus, or you're looking for, you know, buck lures to put in scrapes, that kind of stuff. They have a really, really strict collection process where they collect their urine and it's one buck or one deer per bottle or bag. And so it's not a mix. They do have synthetics, but the real urine, the real tarsal glands, come from one deer per bag. And so that's really interesting. And I, it just means it's a quality control. So go check out their website. And I'm going to be able to provide you with a discount code on the next episode of the hunting gear podcast. I don't have it right now, but I'm going to provide it to you. So stay tuned for that. All right. Let's cut to the chase. And let's get into today's hunting gear podcast episode where we talk about broadheads, tree stands with my man, Nate Thomas. Three, two, one. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the hunting gear podcast. I'm your host, Dan Johnson. And today we are joined by another brother from the sportsman's empire, Mr. Nate Thomas of the Missouri Woods and Water podcast. What's up, man? Brothers don't shake hands. Brothers got a hug. I love it. Love it. Baseball. I've got to talk a little bit about baseball because I know your son's in baseball. My son just finished his last regular season game last night. And now we have state this upcoming weekend. And she made a Christmas like it's just been busy and crazy. And I didn't know that the level of competition at this age group was so cutthroat. No, it's. I have learned that the era that you and I grew up in is no longer a thing is gone. It's gone. It's gone. I've got a 12 year old and competitive baseball and a 15 year old daughter in competitive softball. And I just got we just got home late Sunday night from Nebraska from softball. And the weekend before that the 12 year old boy was down in Springfield, Missouri at state baseball. Yeah. And you're just like, you're Lord, it's you're always somewhere. Yeah. You're almost you're almost wonder if it's worth it. But then you watch them. And you watch, you know, the, the, I don't know how old your son is doing it. But you watch the camaraderie they grow with these kids that don't go to there. Like my daughter, all the teams on her, the girls on her team, not a single one of them go to the same school. Well, few of them do, but not her. She doesn't go to school with any of these girls. And some of these girls are her best friends, you know, and it's that's, that's really cool. I will say. But yeah, when, when you get home late at night and they're tired and stuff, you're like, man, I just, I just know if it's worth it. But the problem today's world is they can't go play wreck ball in their towns anymore. If they are a decent ball player. Yeah. Because they're just, there's like one team and some of those kids don't even play baseball before. And it's, it's a weird world, but it's, it's fun overall. Where are, where are we going wrong in as parents? So I look at this and I go, hey, I was on one, we had one baseball league. They mixed all the kids up. All the kids played and then they had an all star team. So the best kids from all the teams got together. And then they, then they did the traveling stuff like that. Okay. So now, if you even want to play in high school or even middle school or whenever, whenever the school team start, you have got to be on club teams. Like there's none of this coach pitch stuff anymore. I mean, it's, it's full throttle baseball at this point. And I don't necessarily know if I like that. Well, I don't know either because I feel bad for, I mean, like you said, if you want to play in high school, you don't have to play club ball all the way to high school. But you will be so far behind the rest of the kids by the time you get to high school, that that's why you won't play because they're that much more developed. And I kind of feel bad for some of those kids because they're just, like they're just being like you and I were, we were back in school. That's how it was with us where you played on the same one team. And then there was an all star team at the end that you went to like maybe like one or two tournaments afterwards. And in the same area you lived and that's how it was. And then you moved on to football and then you moved on to wrestling and basketball or whatever. And now it's just totally different. So all these kids are having to specialize in a sport at a younger age when studies show that, and I saw this the other day, studies show that kids who participate in more sports, not just one sport actually become better athletes in a single sport or when they get older. Look at all the pros. Look at all the pros out there almost all of them are multi sport athletes. That's the one thing we won't let our kids do is pick one. Even like my son loves football. My other son loves wrestling. That's great, but you're still going to do the other ones that you like because we're not, we're not doing wrestling 24, 7, 3, 65. We're not going to do softball 24, 7, 3, 65. You're going to do several sports that you enjoy now. If you freaking hate everything else, but this one sport, that's a different story. But most kids aren't that way. Most kids like when I was growing up, my favorite sport was the sport I was playing at that moment. Exactly. Exactly. And then I moved on to the next one. And now that's my favorite sport. So that's why I want them to keep trying different stuff. It gets harder. Yeah, that's a fact. And the politics, man. Oh, Jesus, man, the politics. So we're on a, on a school. On a school club in a school club where there are three, three kids at or three. Teams at my boys age group. Well, now we're breaking out of that and we're going independent with our own team that he'll be on. And I just, he's not going to be associated with the school anymore, per se. All the kids on the team are going to be from most of the kids. I should say one, two. Two of the kids are not going to be from his school, from his district. But everybody else will be. So we'll still be able to call ourselves by a law part of that school district. We can't have the same team name as the school district. So I don't know, man. And then you got like mom's chirping. Like the emails coming into the head coach and shit that he shared with me. I'm just like, what? Like your kid isn't playing. You know why he's not playing because he's not good. Dude, you want to hear some funny stories? Just talk to me off air. Yeah, I believe it. I've got some hilarious stories over. I mean, my daughter is damn near 16 years old. So like we've been living this life now in the softball world since, you know, she was playing eight you or whatever. And yeah, you've, you've seen it all, honestly, once you've, uh, get that for that life. Yeah, for sure. Well, let's talk about something, something. I don't want to say more fun because I love watching my boy play softball. I love watching my girl do her dance stuff and things like that. But a different kind of fun. A different kind of fun. And that's hunting gear and equipment, which is why I called this hunting gear podcast. But listen, I want to talk about scenarios and what type of, you know, I think what we'll do is we'll just kind of get into it. It's going to be hard for me to explain. And I want to kick it off with mechanical verse fixed blade broadheads. And so I'll kick it off just so you get an idea of what I want to talk about today. But in the past, I have been a mechanical broadhead guy for white tails from a tree stand, even from a ground blind from a saddle. I'm going to be shooting a mechanical broadhead. Most of my shots, my longest shot ever on a white tail has been 34 yards. I believe it was 34, 35 yards. And that was in timber. He just happened to step into a gap and I shot him. But outside of that, everything has been inside inside 25 yards. Thus, I want something I know that at 25 yards, unless I hit some kind of dense shoulder bone, that mechanical broadhead with my arrow set up 524 grains, total arrow weight goes into that animal. It's going to do a lot of damage. And so I am a, I'm a fan of fixed blade broadheads when hunting white tails. Now, when I step outside of that and, you know, you guys go elk hunting every year, I like to then go because it's a much bigger animal. There is a potential, there is a potential for maybe a longer shot on elk. And I'm going to probably use the same arrow, but I'm going to be using a fixed blade broadhead. And so the reason from that is, if it is a longer shot, it is a bigger animal, that arrow is not going to lose energy when that blade opens. And I'm going to, you know, when I hit it, it's going to go in. And the goal is to get obviously two holes that probably won't happen on an elk. But that's the goal anyway. And so that's, that's how I, that's how I lay out my, my broadhead selection. What are, what do you do? I think it, you already explained it basically, right? Because for me, I'm kind of the exact opposite of you. I, I just got a new bow this year. So I had a lot of bow tuning done and, and I know my, my exact setup. You running a 524 grain arrow. I think you said. Yeah. Mine come in at 416. Okay. Because I'm 27 inch draw. So I'm shooting shorter arrows. My arrows are a 300 spine. You might be a 250. I don't know. But so they're a little lighter, per inch. And so I've got a lighter arrow. So this year, now, now last year, I did for white tail shoot a mechanical. Okay. But. I'm so damn OCD that I need, I need to try to get everything together. So I'm moving to a, a good cut on contact fixed blade this year. Because I'm going out like you said, hunting Elken Wyoming. And I'll obviously be hunting white tail. So I want the, the broad head to cut the second it touches the animal and not lose as much energy as possible. Because I'm already at 416 and 253 feet per second. So I'm a slower arrow. That's lighter. You're shooting a heavier arrow that's still probably faster than what I'm shooting. Because you're drawing because most likely I've seen you're taller than me. You're bigger dude. It's probably at least 29 30 inch draw. Yep. I'm shooting 27. So there's a lot of like variances between the way your bow setup is in mind. Yeah. So I'm, I'm all cut on contact fixed blade all the way. Yeah. I'm moving forward at think right now. Yeah. And when I did go out on my L cuts, I was using a, a fixed blade then. And I stuck because I don't, I don't want to have to retune my arrows when I have to put a new broad head on. Right. I'm going to shoot the same head all year for all animals. And so the year that I ended up, that the years that I've gone on these L cuts, I think it's been four of them. I, I kept that same head in the, in the white tail woods. Now, something happened kind of crazy in 2018 when one of my target box comes out of this draw. And I'm hunting inside of the timber on this field edge. And he, he pretty much came up to just sent, check the field. The wind was kind of blowing into him. And so I just, the, my wind just quartered, he turned into me before the, the, he caught the wind. And I was taking off a rain jacket at the time. So my bow's on the hook. I'm taking off my rain jacket. I set it down. He walks through one of my shooting lanes. I am able to grab my bow pretty quickly, get anchored in. And he was hard quartering away. And I had to kneel down in my stand to take the shot. Well, long story short, I hit him in the ham. Okay. But because of that fixed blade, I got a ton of penetration. And I was shooting 500 to eight. It wasn't as heavy as the one I'm new shooting now. It was like 495 or 500. Something, somewhere right around there. And it went, all, it hit his ham, went through his ham, went through all of his guts, popped his diaphragm. I think I knit or I got liver. And then I knit a little bit of the lung underneath. Just a me very little bit, which kept him bleeding the whole time. And then the, the arrow came out of his, his opposite side shoulder blade. And there's no way I'm getting that type of penetration with a mechanical broad end. You know what I mean? And I probably would have not recovered that white tail. I don't, I'm almost certain I would have not recovered that white tail. If I did not have a fixed blade on there. So, you know, it's hard to say. Here's why I like mechanicals for one, one reason. And it's because, especially in the white tail world, they do an absolute ton of damage. Ton of damage. So, that's kind of where it's like, it's like. You want, you want everything. You want damage and penetration. Yep. But, and you can get it with mechanicals if you hit the right spot. I mean, obviously if you hit straight lungs and don't hit anything outside of bone, you're probably going to pass through and do some major damage. Yeah. The way I'm looking at it, just with my setup. And remember, everybody's setup is different. You know, I'm a shorter guy with a lighter arrow that's running slower. So, I just want to get as deep into the animal's cavity as I can. Yep. Because I'm already hurting myself. Yep. So, that's the way I look at it. Now, you got other guys like yourself that have heavier arrows that are still probably running faster than mine. You can afford to put something on there that's going to, you know, poke a giant hole as soon as it starts, you know, opening up. And still might make it further in than me. Yeah. But, that's just kind of my, and you know, the fixed blade I'm picking, it's a, it's a pretty large blade setup as far as the surface. It's not like I'm poking a little quarter inch hole in there. But that's just kind of why I'm chosen to go fixed blade is not obviously because of elk. And then I just feel like I want to try to get as much penetration as I can. Now, if you, if you hit them double long and it doesn't matter what the hell you're shooting, they're going to die. Yeah. But, obviously, sought shot selection is number one. But then after that, you know, you want to try to play the odds. And in that case, I'm playing the odds. I want to get as deep as I can. Yeah. So, yeah. What, what heads are you using? They're the most expensive heads I probably could find, but they're, they're iron will solids. Okay. So they're heavy duty. Are they 150 green? No, they're 100s. Oh, one on a little bit lighter. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Those are a pretty well built broadhead. And so I, I am a huge fan of wasp broadheads. Yeah. And I think a lot of it has to do with because of, it's the first pack of broadheads that I ever shot. And I very rarely lost any deer throughout the years with them. And so I, I would able to recover my deer and I was pretty happy with it. But with that said, if I'm going to, I have to, I have to have this in full disclosure because wasp definitely, I mean, they pay me. I've been, I've had an absolute great relationship with these guys. Their heads are made in America, which is another thing that I really like. Iron will too, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there's two, yeah, two brands made in America. That's awesome. So I know that the durability is going to be there. The material is going to be there. The craftsmanship is going to be there. And that, that makes it confident for me. But the only thing, and a lot of other broadheads are like this too in the, in the jackhammers that I use, when I'm, when I'm inside 30, it's not an issue. But when you're outside of that, you know, you're, you're starting to stretch out to 40, maybe a little bit longer. The, when the blades open from the top down, right? And they're on that hinge. Yeah. It's not a, like rage has their, their slip cams where it's start, they start up and they slide down. They don't open up like the was do. I've never seen any type of studies about energy loss on broadheads. You know, they always talk about penetration. But they don't, I think it obviously energy loss is what leads to a lack of penetration. So the was jackhammers that I use, they do a ton of damage. But I'm almost, I'm pretty sure that there's a good amount of energy loss going into it. I shot my deer in 2020 into the chest. He was, he was right at me. And I put it right in him. And it made it all but, you know, all but five, or all but five inches into him. But then if I was shooting that same animal with a fixed blade, I'm sure it just wouldn't win all the way through him. Right. Right out, right out his ham or something or guts or something. And there's some pretty cool. I don't know if you've heard of sever broadheads, but they're a mechanical broadhead. I don't know where they're made. I know they're out northwest America somewhere. But I shot those. I've never shot an animal with them. So I can't tell you anything with that. But Andy did. And what's cool about their broadhead is. It's deployment. So it deploys from the front. And then it's got some sort of a. Like a pulley system, not a pulley, a pivot system. So like as the blades are going through the animal, if they hit a bone. It pivots. So that. Oh, yeah. Yep. It doesn't, it doesn't lose all that energy that it's. It's wasting going through the bone. It basically falls off. Yeah. And then as soon as the bone gives away, it pops back up. That's pretty cool. I don't know. You know what that would do differently than like a brand that stays open and doesn't. You know, matter. Yeah. I bought those because there's a guy. He's actually in Iowa. Where you are. Lusk archery adventures. Okay. He heard a John Lusk. Yeah. He tests broadheads. That's what he does. Yeah. He's got a YouTube channel. It's all he does is test broadheads. And that's several, several years ago, it tested pretty well. And so I bought a few of them. They're not that expensive. But I, like I said, I've never shot him on an animal. I mean, truth be told, I've never shot a deer with a, a, a mechanical broadhead yet. Okay. It's always been displayed. Yeah. I've been hunting with mechanicals, but I've never. Shot one. I, I can't really speak on mechanicals. I mean, those servers are the first mechanicals I ever bought. And that was two years ago. Yeah. That's crazy. I'll, I'll say this, man. I shot a doe one year with, I mean, it was 20 yard chip shot. Maybe even a little closer. She came out. I drew back. She was kind of slight quartering away. And I hit her. I went through her front side lung. Went through her back side lung. And then I hit her the shoulder joint up front. And I knocked her flat down, right? And the arrow pinned her to the ground. And so, and then she had, she was struggling to get up. And then she ran. And then she fell over like, you know, 20 yards later. And I don't, like, I don't think, I don't think I would have got a pass through with a mechanical. But that was with a boss, a boss for blade from wasp. So that was, that was pretty impressive. And so, I don't know. Now, here's the question. And it's, it's pretty easy. I think I know the answer for you. It's going to be, if you had to choose between any of them, it would be a fixed blade, right? You're choosing a fixed blade. Yeah. I also think that if you had to tell me I can only use one broad head for all creatures, then I would also choose a fixed blade. But because I have the ability to choose and I, you know, I'm going to go hunt white tails. I'm going to go hunt me over there relatively close. Then I am going to, you know, I am going to, I would probably pick a, pick a fixed blade. But, you know, I'm going to have the options. There's so many like, like fixed blade, yeah, I would pick those. But then at the same time, if you're, if you're a detailed oriented person, at least, there's, there's more setup to a fixed blade. You know, I'm very anal about my blades and the arrow it's on. So, once I find an arrow that a broad head likes to sit on when I tune them, I number that arrow and I number that broad head and there together for the rest of the season. Yeah. That is, there's a lot more work in the fixed blade with the freaking, the severs or even like the wasp jackhammer like you were talking about. You can screw that freaking thing on any one of your arrows and go hunt. You know, it's, it's easier and there's something to be said for that because it's nice. Yeah. But if I, if I had to pick, I'd still go on the fixed side. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. All right. Now, do you do much hunting out of like box blinds or ground blinds? Zero. I hate them. I'm just going to get that out of the way quick because, you know, I've spent, I spent my whole life in a tree. Like all my hunting has been done from a saddle or a tree stand. Right? Just recently out of a saddle. But most of the time it's been from a hang on tree stand or when I was real young, a ladder stand. I get into a blind and I just feel claustrophobic in a way. I feel like, I don't know. I feel like I should, I, I need to see more or, yeah. Right? And so obviously box blinds and ground blinds have their value, probably for kids, probably for people who have destination food sources or food plots or things like that. But for me, man, I can't, like, I would rather sit on the ground and just be still then, then be in a ground blind. So you hit the nail on the head. I don't need to say much more, dude. I, I, I will never myself probably be in a box blind if I'm hunting or a blind of any sort. Now, like last year, my son Chase killed his first deer out of a blind. Right. But that's because I had a little boy with me. Yeah. And actually Andy was with us too. So there's three of us. Those definitely have their place. And I've got one. I've got one sitting in my shop right now that still needs to be put together a tower and a blind. Yeah. But you, dude, when they, when they say it's a blind, it's not just a blind for the animals. It's a blind for the hunter. I hate it. I can't smell the woods anymore. I can't feel the wind on my, but the back of my neck. I can't, I feel like I'm just watching a TV of the woods. Yeah. And I can't tell you how many times last year, the year before, that I, you know, had an area I wanted to go to. And I just went and sat on the ground. Yeah. I would much rather be on the ground out with nature than being a blind. That's just me. I've never liked them. Probably never will. Yeah. But as the kids hunt, I, I have used them just because they, they serve a purpose for that, for that area. Basically, you won't catch me in one of them by myself. Right. Okay. So then, I think I heard you once, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if somebody else, you, you have ladder stands, you use ladder stands. Oh, yeah, for the boys, for the boys. Yeah. Okay. Again, perfect for kids, maybe older hunters, even like if you, if you're like a rifle hunter, you can get into one fairly easy down a clear cut or a road or something like that. Do you personally have any ladder stands? Let's say in good, rough spots or, or in some of your best spots? Yeah, I do. I mean, well, I don't think you can see him, but that deer right there. No, it's that one. He was killed out of a ladder stand. Okay. What, what I'll do with them, actually put five together last two weekends ago. Okay. I did this whole story about it. It was an entire day of putting double ladder stands. But the only ladder stands I own are doubles. And what I'll do is, if it's in a property that I know I'm going to be at for a while, I will pick areas that I like. And I'll find a good tree that a double ladder stand can go in. And I will hang that tree and I will prepare that area for that stand. Okay. But it doesn't mean I won't hunt out of another tree near that stand by myself. But it's so that. So when the, when the boys first started going with me, I had a lot of daddy. I want to go with you tonight and I had to go, hey, bud, where I'm going, you can't be with me. Because I'm going back here to this, this hang on or I've got my stuff on my back. I'm sorry. Well, I really got tired of telling my sons, no. I started setting up these doubles in areas I like to be to so that if they wanted to go, I could take them. Yeah. And we could get in a double together. And once again, I said, I hate lines. I still hate them, even at the boys are with me if I can help it. Yeah. So I'd rather be in a double tree stand than a blind. Yeah. So I'll hang them in those areas that I like. And I'm not scared to put them in areas that I would, I would be during the rut or, you know, pushing in. I don't think bothering areas during the summertime really affect the deer that much. If you're in there for a couple hours and you're out of there. Right. I honestly make as much noise as I can when I'm setting them up so that the deer are well aware that I'm in there working. You know, drive the side by side back there. Make sure they know you're there. Then I don't think it really affects them. And so my plan is for those five double stands to go throughout a few of my properties. Just so the boys can go with me as much as possible this next year. So yeah, I have no problem putting out of a double. And then sometimes if I get some information, for instance, the deer behind me that I killed two seasons ago now. I felt like he was going to come from a certain way. And I happen to have this tree stand right on a path. Because of the way I set it up. And I'm like, man, I just I don't see how he's not going to sent check. And he's not going to use this path. I don't know why he wouldn't use it. And he did exactly what I thought he would do. He came straight down the path with his nose to the ground and walked within 20 yards of me and got shot. So you know, they serve their purpose. And I'll probably always use double outer stands somehow for at least the next 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. That makes that's a great point. I mean, eventually at some point, I'm going to get my kids in the tree with me too. And I'm going to, you know, I'm going to have to have something like that. The issue is like ground blind versus double outer stand. Like, especially if it's a young kid, I definitely think ground blinds have their place. Because really, if you're hunting out of a ground blind with a kid, then I feel through managed expectations that I would understand that, you know, it's not necessarily going to go down tonight. You know what I mean? Like, if I'm out there hunting, I'm the hunter. And I bring my kid with me. I'm probably just doing it to be convenient for them, you know, probably. I don't know. I'm not going after the big buck. You know what I mean? Like I would, you know, from a strategy standpoint. So I don't know. And as time goes on, like, I've learned a lot since I started taking my sons. Like the first, my son, Caden, first time I ever took him hunting with me, I went out and set up to hang on stands perpendicular to each other in a tree. Yeah. And what I did was I was like, well, what I'll do is I'll have him in front of me. And then I'll have him get into the stand on the south side. And then I'll sit on the one facing west. And he'll be right next to me. It'll be great. Well, I didn't think of the fact that he was fucking terrified climbing that tree and the dark. No, it was, it was an evening six. Okay. But, you know, you're talking about tree sticks instead of a ladder. So, you know, you're, you're, you're, you, it's, it's, I, for a kid, I can see where it would be much more scary than climbing a ladder. Right. You can just go up just like a, a ladder. Right. And I remember that night vividly. Like, I don't remember a lot about my life. But that I remember because like, I'm sitting there and I'm like, am I going to make him finish this climb? Are we going to not hunt tonight? Right. And, you know, I, I was a dick and I was like, no, you're, you're almost there. Get your ass up the tree and you can do it. And, you know, when he got up there after he got sitting down, then he had the time of his life. Right. And then we had to climb down on the dark and he was scared again. But, um, so like, I just, I just, I mean, I will set up a, a, a double set up again. Because now he's been hunting with me for several years and he's not scared of it anymore. But I just want to try to make it easy on him. Right. Because at the same time, there's still 10 years old, you know, 10, 11 years old. They're still kids and they're not us. Yeah. So I don't, I don't want to like star them and, you know, have some shit happen or something like that. Right. You know, that's where the, the ladder stand is just really, really nice. And so I heard you mentioned that you are going to be messing around with a saddle this year. Why? So I got a new property to me and I just got it, uh, like two and a half weeks ago. Okay. So scouting is not really much of an option this year. Obviously, you can go walking through the woods. Yeah. But seeing their travel, their travel corridors are a lot harder in the middle of the summer than they are in the winter time. And I don't really want to go blow in through there that often right now, um, as much as I can help it. And so I got a new property. So I have done a little bit. I put some mineral out, um, where I could and I've got some cameras out, obviously. And as I'm in there doing that stuff, I'm just really paying attention and. This is funny to say, but the two other farms that I hunt. Those farms suck for trees. Okay. You know, they've got like one of them is just nothing but hedge trees and, you know, like getting a double lapar stand into some of those has been the big. I mean, it's like you're just spending half your time with a chance off. Right. Um, so this place, though, I've noticed has a lot of straight. Trees with not a lot of understory. Well, some understory, obviously, but straight trees. And I'm just like, I could be in that one. I could be in that one. I could be in that one. And I just thought, dude, I'm. I don't know this property. It's probably going to take me this year to learn this property as I'm hunting. And that just brought me back to one thing. Saddle. Yeah. Um, you know, my running gun set up that I had before with a tree stand. It's fine, but it's heavy as shit. And I don't like carrying it in. What were you using? It's an exit. I love, I like to stand, but it's an XOP vanish. Yeah. And then I've got the tree stand transport system on it. Yep. And then at the time, I was, I'm using hawk helium sticks with the daisy chains instead of the buckles. But every time I would go in and hunt with it, and I haven't done that in a couple of years now, I would feel like I was packing an elk in. Right? Yeah. It was heavy. You know, like, well, what I would do is I would have the tree stand on my back and I would fold the seat down. And then I would place my backpack on that seat and I would strap everything together. Now, I probably had more stuff in my backpack than I needed to have. But it just, it wasn't fun for me. Right. Wasn't. It was just too heavy. Yeah. So I'm just like, you know, if I'm going to be doing this running gun stuff at this new property, where I need to see new stuff and new spots. And, you know, I might see a buck 80 yards away one night and I need to make a move two nights later. It's just, it's a, it's a saddle. I mean, they, there's so many companies now that make good stuff. And you've heard enough good things about them that I, it was a pretty easy decision to make. Yeah. I got one. Yeah, I got a new one too this year. It's called the lock down from Tethered. And the thing that I really, really, really like about it is it's got two like pockets. Not, they're not pockets, but there's little packages, little containers that you can unzip that you put stuff in. And so I'm the kind of guy who likes to, whenever I do a running gun, everything is in my pockets or in my, like my hoodie. And so I'll be able to easily pull out a bow rope or pull out a screw in step or something like that. So I have the other saddle as well, the, man, the XL or whatever, I forget the name of it right now. But anyway, so that one worked great. But I felt like I was still having to dig in, you know, I was digging in my pockets and, you know, trying to get my backpack off and things like that. This one, everything's going to be right on my hip. And so it's going to be easy to set up. And then by the time I'm up the tree, the only thing I have to do is hang my backpack up, pull my bow up, hang it. And I'm set. I'm good, right? I'm good to go. So, yeah, I'm pretty excited. I mean, like I said, I, all I have is the saddle in the platform right now. I still got to get my sticks and, and whatever else I need. But so I haven't like tried it yet, played with it. So I'm, obviously, I've got to practice because it's different than a tree stand. But dude, the platform, I got the larger platform of all my stuff, it's a trophy line set up. So I got the mission platform, I think it's called. And it's bigger, but it's bigger than the small one. But it's like, nothing, dude, you can just sit there and, yeah. Like, hold it in your palm of your hand almost. So, yeah. I'm excited. I'm just excited about that. And then you're going to be wearing the, the saddle. Yep. Into the woods. So I haven't decided what sticks I'm going to go with yet. Obviously, trophy line has a set up that I might go with. But I've heard a lot of good shit about those tethered one sticks. Just how light they are. Yeah. And they're pretty like that. So, yeah. They're pretty light. Hang on. Like, I still feel, I still feel like tree stands definitely have their place. And the reason I like, I'm still mobile. But I feel like I'm going to have across all of my properties. I'm going to have four total. That's like 600 some acres of only four pre set tree stands. The rest is going to be bouncing around on a, on a, a saddle. And obviously all of my out of state hunts will be from a saddle. But I feel like hang on's definitely have their place. Especially in like a morning hunt. Right. I don't care who you are setting up going mobile in the pitch black dark sucks a little bit. Right. You can't see your, you know, obviously you got your head lamp on. You want to be as quiet and less intrusive as possible. But they're, you know, even if you got a saddle, even if even if you think you're a pro at setting up, they're still a little bit of intrusion versus walking to a preset tree stand and climbing straight up it and snap it in. No doubt. And let that set that property I'm telling you about. I'm probably going to set up a few of them. Yeah. Because I've got a few and I picked what I think is a good spot. Yeah. I love hang on still. And from a running gun standpoint. I mean, you, you, you used to and I still probably will at some point. That's all you did was run a gun with a hang on the issue I had was my setup probably just wasn't the best, right? Right. You know, like my XOP just a little heavier than a lone wolf. A little heavier than maybe a few others. The hawks, the hawks sticks that I had. A little heavier than the rest. The way I took it in probably put way too much shit in my backpack. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, you know, there's definitely a place for that, but the way I looked at it for this next year is if I'm going to run and gun one way or the other. I'm going to go as light as I can because then I'll do it. Yeah. If it's heavy and I don't want to do it, I'm not going to. Right. So I'm going to go as light as I can and that's obviously going to be a saddle. The thing that I need to figure out is I'm the guy who goes to my tree stand in just a like I take off layers and add layers throughout the entire hunt. Right. By the time I get to a tree, I'm usually soaking wet with sweat, you know, unless I just wear a base layer and pull the what I call the freeze method where I'm just so cold. But by the time I climb up the tree, I start to warm up and then I start throwing layers on. And if I time it right, I can do it, but most of the time, I'm wet. I'm sweaty. And then, you know, that the base layers there, the issue that I'm like with a saddle is just like the layering part of it. Right. The what I got to try to figure out is how I'm going to layer my clothes in a saddle. I hadn't thought of that yet. Yeah. Yeah, that'll be weird because I'm the same way I get hot. So yeah, most of my most of my saddle hunts have been in just throw a jacket on. Right. I was able to stand up on the platform, put my jacket on and then I was good. But we're not talking about bib anything about bib overalls. We're not taught. And I think the way most of the bib overalls. They snap on snap down a little bit. So I might be able to tuck the front part of the saddle up into it, buckle up and then. And then button it up close with just the ropes hanging out of the overalls. Yeah, because in that, I mean, obviously people just heard I just got one. So I haven't hunted out of one yet. But one of the things that people, I guess, complain about quote unquote is. You know, like their jackets riding up on them and exposing their back or whatever. So like a lot of people talk about hunting out of bibs because. It's a, it's nice. Then you don't have that problem. I've never been a bib where I've got a few and I might wear them. But. That's a good point. I never really thought of that because. You know, my thought was I was going to put the saddle on on the truck and then go in. Yep. But. Or do you wait until you get to the base of the tree and then make sure you put on what you need to put on. For that hunt. Yeah. Before that. Right. I guess I'll have to figure that out as a hunt. Yeah. For sure. That's just just one more thing you got to think about when, you know, trying new equipment. But. You know. The more I've watched saddle hunting, I used to think that there was a lot of movement in saddle hunting. Right. Where. You know, if you're in a tree stand, you're just sitting there, you can turn your head and look. Maybe you can stand up and turn around. But I feel like if I set my saddle up right and I messed around with this. A lot. It's, it's almost more of a natural movement to swing. It's not. I don't know. I feel like it's more like a tree branch would move. Then it would be standing up straight, turning around in a stand. You know, I haven't gotten busted in a saddle yet. I haven't killed a deer out of a saddle either. But I haven't gotten busted yet either. So. And I had some, I had some pretty close encounters with a doe that some, like a doe group this year. And so I was, I don't know. I'm looking forward to expanding my knowledge base of saddle hunting. That's a perfect way to put it. I'm looking forward to. Well, here's what I'm looking forward to. I'm looking forward to cussing at the freaking thing. And saying this is stupid. Because that I guarantee you the first time I go to use it, that's what I'm going to do. That's funny. And. And then I'll be like, I'll probably call Mike and be like, nice through this. I'm not hunting out of this anymore blah, blah, blah. And then by the third time, I'm going to just be like, this is the best thing ever. Anything I ever do. That's how it goes. So you'll bitch about the saddle not being right, but then you'll go back to the tree stand. So I'm looking forward to being super agitated for the first couple, like weeks of my hunting season. Out of a saddle. And it's not the saddle's fault. And it's not going to be anybody's fault, but my own. Because stuff always comes up that you don't think about. Right. You know, like we just talked about the clothing thing. You know, something's going to come up that I'm like, oh, man, I, this, I really wish there was something I had right here. From my bag to pull up. Yeah. Or why the hell am I going back down the tree? I need to have this. And I'll be aggravated that entire hunt because I didn't think of that before. Yep. And then eventually I'll work all my kinks out. And then I'll be happier and help. But I know it's coming. It always does. Yeah. So for sure. Yeah, for sure. Let's see here. Do you ever wear rubber boots? Yeah. Never. Never. Neither do I. I was going to. You know, I feel like rubber boots maybe have their place on a, on a warmer weather. Really wet scenario. I know a lot of guys in the south. Pretty much. You know, if they're hunting swamps, you've got to, you have to have rubber boots. But for me. Either it's always some kind of high ground to walk on. And I, unless it's like, unless I had to cross a creek that I couldn't jump over or do a quick splash into. I'm not. I'm not wearing rubber boots. But I think that's it, man. That's all I really, those, those two things were really what I wanted to cover today in, in those types of scenarios. Oh. Saddle. Saddle versus hang on. Really. You know, we're talking about scenarios. Ground blinds great for food plot hunting. Great for rifle hunting. Longer distances. Maybe kids. That kind of stuff. Hang on. Sure. Hang on. There's a lot of overlap in my opinion between hang ons and hang ons and saddles. Especially when I feel like, and maybe I'm wrong on this, but I feel like with my saddle, I had to trim a little bit more compared to getting a tree stand in. And the reason I say that is because when you're, you know, you're facing the tree. So then you have to, you know, you got to shoot, you're shooting, you're sometimes you're shooting towards the tree. And I felt like I had, like when I was doing my running guns with saddle hunting, I had to, I had to trim a little bit more around my body level than I did with. And maybe it's because with a saddle, you get, you have more shot opportunity on the backside of the tree than you do with a stand. So maybe that's what I was trying to get at. I think, and also hang ons are like super versatile. Like if you think about it, you can, there's hang ons that are little as hell that you can run and gun with. There's big ass hang ons. You can, like so honestly hang ons almost can be like a ladder stand. Yep. In some instances where you can do what I was talking about where you have two and one tree and you take a kid in it. Yeah. You can have a small hang on where you're running and gun it. You can have larger hang ons that you pre-set, which is basically a ladder stand, but it's not. Yeah. And so I will always have hang ons. I will have a lot of preset setups because I like to do that. Yeah. So they're, they're super versatile. I definitely will always use those just because I'm using a saddle this year does not mean I won't be in a hang out of hang ons maybe as much. And honestly we didn't even talk about this, but there is one type of hunting that has intrigued me more and more and more. And I've done more and more of it and that's hunting off the ground. Yeah, you're right. You're right. So I mean, because all the stuff we just talked about that can all go away when you're off the ground. Yeah. And you're now obviously there's, there's negatives to hunting off the ground. And I definitely understand those negatives every time I'm ever on the ground. I think to myself, boy, it'd be nice to be 10 feet up in the air right now. Oh, absolutely. You know, but man, I'm telling you it's just so free. It's just such a free feeling that there's another option for people. If you don't have the money to go buy a saddle, you don't have the money to buy a few hang ons and hang them or some ladder stands. Just go sit at the base of a tree and stay still. Yeah. Play the wind the same way. You need to worry about your wind a little more on the ground for sure. Because now you're, you're, you're right there. Right. But dude, there's, I know a buddy of one of our partners, he's a habitat guy. He is a straight up killer and he does not hunt out of anything but his own two feet. Yeah. So there's lots of people up. Yeah, my dumbass is messing up messing that up somehow. I'm too big to be stealthy. That is true. You are a large man. I was not born to be quiet. So like, I'm not a cheetah. I'm a rhinoceros. So. You, you are a large individual. That's where I kind of have an advantage here because I can kind of get into areas that you, you have to just basically stand out there like a sass bar. You're a timber ninja. And I'm a, like, I'm just like a truck going through the field. So yeah. Well, hey, man, I really appreciate you doing this last minute. Thank you very much for hopping on. If you guys haven't checked out the Missouri Woods and Water podcast, it's great. If you live in Missouri, it's also great because they cover a lot of nationwide issues as well. So go check out Nate and the rest of the Missouri Woods and Water crew. Other than that, Nate, man, thank you and good luck with the rest of your summer. Thanks, buddy. Shoot your bow with folks. Thank you.