GRAKKSAW Hunting Gear

You're listening to the Sportsman's Empire Podcast Network, your home for real, relatable, outdoor podcasts. Here we go again, another episode of the Honey Gear Podcast getting ready to roll out. Today we're going to be talking with Greg Saul Mountain Gear, and man it was in 2017 the owner Austin reached out to me and he's like, hey dude, I'm starting to make these game bags and I want you to have some and test them out if you feel so inclined. I was like, hell yeah man, send them to me. So he sends them to me, he sends them to me, and then I am actually able to use them. I, me and my other buddy Dan from New York, we end up shooting a mule deer out in south, he ends up shooting a mule deer out in South Dakota, and then we cut this thing up. We use these game bags and they perform pretty well. Well he reached out to me again, and he's like, hey man, I got some new products. I'd like to share with you if you're interested. So he sent me another box and I'm like, hey dude, why don't you just come on the podcast and let's talk about these products. And so now it's not just game bags. He's getting ready to like this different variety of game bags. He has European skull mounts and he has boot dryers and that right, those boot dryers right there are going to be pretty cool. And so I got a pair and I think I'm going to be using them a lot, especially when I'm out west and it's hot and the feet are starting to sweat, things like that. Now the cool thing about all these products are made in America. He is adamant that everything as much as humanly possible can be made in America. And that's kind of the credo that he lives by. He wants very high quality. He wants returning customers and he put, like he says, he puts all the money right back into the business and that's what keeps the quality high. And I don't know about you guys, but I love high quality and I'm a fan of made America stuff too. And if that equation works out, I would love to support not only that individual company, but all of the other companies within the United States that support that company, right? So and he talks about that. So it's a really good episode. I think you guys are going to enjoy it. I'm going to keep the intro short on this one and I am going to run the commercial now and that is code blue sense now. Code blue is a scent company. They have real urine, they have synthetics, they're the scent elimination sprays, they have deodorants, they have laundry detergent. And the thing that I've been messing around with and actually tomorrow, whatever you guys are listening to this, me and my son are heading down to the new farm that I've gotten access to and I'm going to be putting out some more mock scrapes and the kit specifically that they offer is called the rope, it's the orbital gland. And so what I'm going to do is I just got done doing an interview with Troy Pottinger. He's like the mock scrape master. I myself am going to try to, you know, do some mock scrape stuff and hopefully get that in front of a trail camera or get that within shooting range of a white tail. And I really do think it's going to, it's going to pay off if I do it right. And so he, Troy, in that episode, you got to go listen to it, right? And so that's what I've been doing. I have a discount code for you. First off, you got to go to their website, read up on other products and if you do decide to buy it, enter the disc, it's code blue scents.com and then use the discount code NFC20 and that's going to get you 20% off. So, that's it, let's get into today's episode, have a good one. Three, two, one, all right, ladies and gentlemen, today's guest, I think it was about 2017 reached out to me and said, hey, I'm making some game bags and I want to send them to you. Would you be interested in taking them? And I was like, yeah, dude, I'm sending my way, I'll give them a try. Luckily, that fall, me and my buddy, Dan from New York went to South Dakota and he slayed an absolute giant mule deer and we were able to use those game bags. And so today, Jeremiah Johnston, just kidding, his name's not Jeremiah Johnston, his name is Austin. Come on, it's a long German name, it's really easy. Austin. Okay. What's your last name, Austin? Bernsketter. Bernsketter, that's right, Austin Bernsketter and he's on the podcast today to talk about his company, to talk about his game bags and some of the other products that he has. But before we get into all that, why don't you talk to us a little bit about how your season went last year, man? My white tail season was dismal and it has been for three years, Dan, I go out west every year and I've had a lot more luck out west. I don't know what it is. It's like, I think I spend more time sitting in a white tail stand than driving out west for two days and hunting for a week and then coming back. So that kind of sums up my season. I killed a six point bowl and I killed a four by four mule and then I struck out over and over and over and over again on white tail. And what state do you live in? Missouri. Missouri. Okay. Yeah. I mean, some guys do that. Some guys just are almost automatic out west and then they get home and they struggle. I know, I know a guy, he, I wouldn't put him at automatic out west, but he, it's easier for him the style that he hunts on the public land that he hunts out west than it is and is very small parcel farms that he has access to for white tails in Michigan. Yeah. And I mean, I'm not Michigan at Missouri. We got some great deer crop. Yeah, I still hunt pretty small places and I don't know. I have the problem of always trying, oh, you know, I see a pretty good buck. I'm like, oh, I could, you know, there's a big buck every year. My one of my neighbors kills like a 170, 180. So I'm always trying to play the waiting game and then it, you know, it's a rifle season. I'm like, oh, I still don't have a deer dead. And then it's late season and I still don't have a deer dead. And I'm like, what the hell did I do? I should have just shot an eight pointer. I mean, come on. Right. But I'll tell you this eventually what happens is deer like that get, like, you know, you just kind of go through the motions. You say it's dismal, but those deer are getting older. And eventually you're going to shoot a monster. Right. That's just what my gut tells me. One of these decades, Dan, I will, you know, right, right. Yeah, man, we're out, we're out west. You hunt. I've been to Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming, where else do you tall? I feel like I'm missing a place. I'm trying to go to Montana. Yeah. This year, I got a Colorado just left over tag. I just do OTC or general and all of them. I haven't drawn anything. I haven't done one an actual draw. I got a Wyoming general tag like going actually to what you just said on a podcast. A few ago, you were talking about your Wyoming points and you got eight, oh, man, Dan, you need to burn those on a general unit. There's a kid and dude, I don't know what a good unit in Wyoming takes, but right now the general is without specials, probably five, five points plus six points. Yeah. So like, I don't know, there's, there's, but there's some spot stand that you can hunt with a bow. What, what I did in Wyoming when I drew my journal, I hunted with a bow. I went with another guy and he got a six point bowl with his bow. Then we had to leave. So I came back by myself and the tag in Wyoming, the general tag, they're good for rifle as well. Okay. So I came back with a boom stick and killed a bowl, you know, three weeks later. Oh, nice. So I don't, I'm a big fan of the Wyoming general, man. Yeah. A lot of it has to do with just time, right? Because and now I'm to the point with my preference points in Wyoming where when I go, it will be my only western hunt that year, probably my only out of state hunt. I've got eight preference points now. So I got eight preference points. I probably don't need this many for analogue, but I got eight for elk, eight for analogue and I believe six for mule deer and for deer. And so when I go out there, I am going to go out there with the hopes of spending like multiple weeks. Oh, you're going to get off, you're trying to get all three species? Well, no, no, no, no, not a single time, but like when I, when I go out there, I, that wouldn't happen with my wife and kids. But when I go out there for my elk trip, it will be, I'll be out there. I'll probably get out there September 1st and I won't come home until I killed a bowl or like 14 days, whatever comes first, like I'm going to dedicate two straight weeks to that's the way to do it, man. That's what I do it. Yep. Yeah, I mean, there always the option though, too, Dan, you could just, you know, throw it all away. Everything you've worked for your family, your kids, your wife and just, just hunt, dude, you know, there's days, there's days, I know, man, you know what, we should just act, we should have just acted like we were gay this whole time. We could live, we could live together, bank a shitload of money and hunt all the time, dude. I saw that. We're like, okay, so a guy said this, said the same thing to me. He's like, did you know that, you know, now that all these rules have passed, gay people can get the same insurance as, you know, regular married couples, which, oh great, you know, good for them. But now I can get married to my best hunting buddy and we can share resources and go hunt more. Yeah. And so, I mean, just because you get married to a man doesn't mean you got to have sex. I don't know. Yeah, dude. I mean, this might, this all, avoid all the butt stuff and just have fun. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, this, this part might get edited out or maybe not, but, but, yeah, I mean, there's, there's always, there's always loopholes that a person can take advantage of. So I'll just, I'll believe it at that. Yeah, Dan, I mean, what's gay about living with another grown man in the double wide, you know? There's nothing gay about that. Nope. Nope, not at all. So, product, all right, in 2017, you decided to start messing around with game bags. Why, why all of it? I mean, are you, are you an inventor or you an entrepreneur or like, why, what do you, what do you do for the living first off? Well, I do a few things, but I'm a mechanical engineer. I got a degree in mechanical engineering. So I, I contract work for my brother and I've done that since maybe 2015. Okay. And I graduated college and then I sold, I sell fireworks. I have three, four or five stands. This depends on the year around Missouri. Okay. And then I do grass all. So that's kind of the things I do. And I, I decided to do the game bags because one of my buddies lived out in Colorado, one of my rugby teammates from Missouri moved out there and said, hey, man, let's go elk hunting. I'm like, sure, I've never been thought about it. So let's go. So we packed our bags, got a Colorado over the counter tag and went and gotten to elk and it was awesome. We didn't kill a bull, but we got really, really close. I mean, we got very close multiple times and we were using pillowcases. And I'm like, man, these damn pillowcases sat in my bag for 10 days. They weighed two pounds and took up as much as a basketball in my bag. I'm like, this was, this was terrible. So I went back home and just started experimenting with stuff, ordering lightweight fabrics, making it as light as I could, changing up seams and stitch patterns and all this stuff. And I found a super strong yet very light fabric that will hold hundreds of pounds. You know, you can poke a hole through it with a knife or a stick or a rock, but it can hold tons of weight. So if you don't subject it to a lot of a brage or a puncture, you can hold tons of weight and it compresses almost nothing like the size of a beer can for a whole set. I mean, you can attest to that. So I made that, brought it out in 2017 and I killed an over the counter bull in Colorado. And it was a big bull and it fit in the set of game bags I made. I'm like, holy shit, this is actually going to work. Like this fit the bull perfectly, like they work great. They breathe great. And so I just started making them. Awesome. I do have to do rail this conversation already. You said a rugby. Like, yeah, dude, where did, where did you play rugby at? I played in high school way to team. Jeff, I'm in Jefferson City, Missouri, the state capital, and we had a team for years. And then it got, I don't know, disbanded or whatever. And then when I was a sophomore in high school, it restarted. So I played for them for three years. And then I played a season at University of Missouri. Okay. And then I played like another half season at the St. Louis bombers. I don't know if you ever played them or heard of them, but yeah, I've heard of them. I've heard of them. So they, they were a pretty good team. I mean, but that time I was commuting, like I had to go drive over an hour to practice and I only did it for like half a season or a season. And I'm like, I just, I couldn't justify the time. But dude, I loved rugby. It was, it was, I played football, wrestled in rugby and rugby man. Oh, it was great. It was the best sport I've ever played. Yeah, I loved it. Like, I was a little nervous to start playing it because I didn't start playing it until my junior year in college. And then I played it for like five years after that. So I played for, I didn't play through the college I was at. I played for a club club team of a neighboring city. And dude, once you get past the nerves and realize that if you aren't going out trying to wreck people, it's not very, it's, I mean, it's a physical sport. Don't get me wrong. But if you're smart and use your head and tackle with your, your brain instead of just throwing your body around like football, the thing I always say is, I, I wish I played rugby first before I played football. So you could actually learn how to tackle without using your pads without using your head across their body too. Yep. And dude, like, I, I feel that a person who would learn to tackle without, without pads first could go then put pads on and be an absolute savage, especially because you know, in, in rugby, it's not about like smashing them. It's about trying to get control of the ball, right? Yeah. And dude, if you could do that, just like a guy, a smart football player could strip the ball so, like, so well, I feel. Yeah, man. Yeah, rugby, more, more young men need to play it, man, it's a very difficult sport. It's a, it's a great sport. You know, it's, it's like a mix of between wrestling and football, you know, no breaks. Yeah. That's actually what I want. I want to get into a, that's, that's a, it's a good segue, Dan, because I saw a real, you, and I knew you lost a finger. I'm glad you have all your toes, but I lost, you almost, I heard you almost lost your wiener on me, which is insane. It wasn't, no, wasn't my wiener. It was my, it was my, it was my nuts. I about lost, I about had my nuts, you know, torn from the rest of my body. And so, uh, yeah, I had, uh, I had a vast deference break, uh, what else? I broke my jaw. I never got it fixed. That's why I have such a, like a crooked smile and worn down teeth because my jaw is broken in a tournament. And, uh, yeah, it makes you look damn tough though, Dan. Or yeah, yeah, it makes, yeah, it makes me look something. Maybe like a handicap or something, I mean, anyway. All right, uh, back, back to the conversation. So you start, you start putting, uh, making these game bags, uh, like how does, when you, when you start off, when a company starts off with just one product, how do you, and you have no footprint in the industry at all, you know, your brand new, how did you get the word out about your, your game bags? Oh, man, I, uh, I guess this was, I get good timing. I guess I had, uh, that's when podcasts were first coming up. You know, I mean, I got some of them were established and big, but there wasn't very many. And just like the whole hunting influencer thing was kind of in its infancy. And I was huge into hunting it, you know, white tail before that. But I guess what I did really was just try and contact guys like you, you know, I was contacting the Dan Johnson's in the world, uh, Ryan Lampers, I don't know if you've ever heard of him. He's a Western guy, Brian Call, uh, all these different Western guys. And you know, it's a no for most people that never even get back to you. But then some guys are like, sure, man, I'll try them out. And if they're crap, they're crap. And you know, there's no strings attached. I'm not looking for an endorsement. I was just like, you know, I'm just eating, eating money to just send all these guys stuff. Yeah. And then, you know, some guys like them and some guys get back to me and other guys you never hear from them. But that's, that was kind of my strategy. And I, uh, I got pretty blessed, lucky, fortunate, whatever that some guys liked them and then told some people and the word spread a little bit. So, yeah, what is it about the game bags? Okay. So you mentioned that it's real light fabric. When I pick it up, um, it reminds me of tent fabric. Is that, is that a, uh, a good description? Yeah. It's, it's close to the same thing. It's a nylon and not a sill nylon. So it's not impregnated with any waterproofing agents, you know, silicone or PU polyurethane. It's just a straight nylon and it's a low, lower denier. It's a lower density. Um, so that's, that's the difference, I guess. And when I first did it, the only other, even semi light game bags were, uh, gosh, I don't know if they were a lot, they were called bon bomb bags, boneless meat bags, like, uh, care, I don't think they were caribou. They were either caribou or a last guy or something like that. There were some, oh, Christine ventures. That's what it was. They were, they were the only other one and they were in Alaska. Yeah. And, um, there's were just white and I think these were made of polyester. So they were a lot heavier duty, a lot heavier, which, that's great. But I was in the backpack punning where you don't want to carry an extra pound. I mean, you want to carry almost nothing. Yeah. So in my minor orange, which, they were different shape. They're long and tubular, which lots of them, none of them were. They were all big pillowcases. And then minor orange. So one, you could see your kill set from a long way and two, you could use them to flag stuff, I used them to put them on my skulls when I pack skulls out, you know, so you don't get shot by some dude. Yeah. So those are the things I tried to change with it. Yeah. And they turned out, I mean, just from when we used a man, they're really durable. And the cool thing about them, obviously, is machine washable, correct? Yeah. Yeah, I, I'm, I guess I'm filthy. I just soak mine in a sink with some detergent and hang them on the deck. But yeah, you can wash them in the wash machine on a gentle cycle. Yeah. Yeah, that's what, that's what I did. I told you before we started recording on 2017, went out and shot that mule deer, took the mule deer to the processor, quickly stuffed those game bags back into some kind of box or bag that I had. I think into the carrier case bag that they all stuff into and then threw it in the back of my truck and forgot about it for like three months. And then I went to go take them out and they were just disgusting. Through it, through them. That's nasty. Yeah, I threw them in the wash and Zippo, they're back to clean again. I didn't dry them, obviously, I just hung them, you know, they've been washed out and then I hung them out on the, on the chair out front. And so, yeah, they air dry and like, you know, 30 minutes, for example, yeah, exactly. And so how did, how did, how's that part of the company doing for you? Oh, it's doing great. I actually, I'm having problems keeping up and like going back, you were talking to Jacob about the American made stuff and my game bags are more expensive than pretty much everyone else besides marsupial, but mine have different features. They're lighter. They're the lightest, they're the lightest game bags you can consistently use. Yeah. And they're sewn in America for what that's worth. You know, it is becoming difficult, though, whenever there's a lot more competition, you guys, you know, talking about all the vinyl harnesses out there. Well, everybody and their brothers coming out with game bags and they're getting them made in Asia. And it's like, they're, they're making them, like some of these companies are making their sets of game bags for practically what I have in them. Like I just can't, you know, they're setting it, selling a set of out game bags for $55, $60. And I'm just like, that's not possible. I pay my sores. She's getting paid over $20 an hour. Like you just, you, you, it doesn't work. Yeah, you know, yeah. And that's, that's the thing. I take it, so from a material standpoint, from a material standpoint, some of these competing game bags are, it's probably similar, right, for a quality. Yeah, I mean, they're using, I would say their fabrics are a little cheaper because it's a, it's heavier and it's counterintuitive, but heavier fabric is usually cheaper. Yeah, yeah. Because the more technical the fabric, the, the price here it gets. So their fabrics are a little cheaper and, you know, you're not paying shipping costs because they're making the fabric and textile mills in Asia and it's going straight to the factory and so on, then shipped to them as a finished product. So they're, they're saving a ton of freight and labor and cutting and all that stuff that I have to incur. Okay. So, and so the material that you use isn't manufactured in the United States. The, the, the creation of the product is made in the United States, correct? Or you do that. Yeah, yeah, and some of the components like my string is my string and my reflective grow glow wire. I think I was the first one to do that, but my game bag string is 250 pound cordage made by an American company with tracers in it that glow in the dark. And that's American, the cord locks, it's back and forth. My threads made in Germany. But the fabric is Asian. I've got it from Vietnam before and most of the time though it's China. I actually sourced a full role of some American made fabric. It's parachute nylon here is what we call it. And it's, you know, very compliant. It could be sold to the military, but it's so expensive, Dan. It's, it's unusable. It's four times the price of my fabric. It's, it's so expensive. My game bag sets would like double in cost. Yeah, yeah. So I just can't do it. And they want the, it was, it's crazy because with COVID, everything slowed down. But the lead times from the mill here I got quoted was 10 or 12 months. And they needed a minimum of 10,000 yards paid up front. I mean, you're talking more than $10 a yard. I mean, the numbers were just getting insane. Like, wait, so I have to give you 50 grand in the way to year for fabric. Like I can't do that. Yeah, yeah. Why is it important to you as a manufacturer that creating the product in the US is important paying someone in the US to sell your game bags is important? Well, I guess there's a lot of reasons to it. But I guess if you look at the overall picture, what it does is it's not just the woman's sewing my game bags are the women or the, or the people assembling them. Like my nieces and nephews and all different kind of people help us. It's all it's the chain of who it helps and who it supports. I mean, the American company with the courtage, like they're not getting court done and delivered them. They're manufacturing it, but they're getting components from other American companies, you know, this reflective material, the, the, the braiding, you know, then you got, then you got the woman's, you got the woman's sewing it. She's going to Hobby Lobby or wherever, you know, getting, getting her thread. There's a million different people that are supported in this, just because you sew it here, there's a lot of other industries supported here that do it. You know, I use an American wholesaler to import my fabric right now. So that's another person that's making money. They employ people. It's just like there's a ton of, there's a, there's a big pyramid of people of Americans that are, that are, you know, that are benefiting from it. And, you know, you guys are talking about the other day tribe, you know, the tribalistic thing. And I don't want to be too tribalistic, but I'm looking out for my own. And if the world's a big sports game or, or, you know, whatever, I, I want to support Americans if I can't, if it all possible. And there is a point where it becomes impossible. You know, if my game bags are $200 a set and everyone else is 50, I get it, man, it's, it's just, hey, Austin, maybe you should fold your hand and not do game bags anymore. Yeah, but while I can still decently compete on price and for sure compete on quality and definitely beat them on service, I'm going to keep doing it. So yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. Yeah. And I think, you know, in the conversation that we had with Jacob a while, a while back, I think people are willing to pay a price for that. Now everybody's price is different, but in the margin, right, from, from what? From not what, from what you're making, but the margin between the lowest product in that category and the highest product in that category, I feel like people are willing, especially people in the outdoors hunting are willing to pay more for an American made product. If it means one, one big thing for me would be to have access to somebody to where I can call them and go, hey, listen, man, you sent me, you sent me some bags that were just jacked up. And then my guess is you would be like, dude, I'm sorry about that. Let me get you some new, some new bags, right? Like customer service, taking care of the, of the person. And then you, you know, once you, once you start getting outside of that, then it just becomes like the, the water becomes dirty. And people can't just say, I mean, because they have this huge process, their products are on a boat for potentially a month or so to get, even get here. And they're not doing the quality checks at all until maybe they unload the shipping container. No, Dan, they're not doing that even. Yeah. Yeah. So they're just sending them out because that's, that's the only way to do it efficiently. Yeah. Exactly. So that's my point, right? And I feel like people are willing to pay more money if it's an American made for that reason alone. So that's cool. Yeah. And I'm, I'm trying to upscale, Dan, like I have very, I have some great, I have some really cool game bag designs. Like, I mean, that sounds kind of stupid, honestly, thinking about it. But, you know, total, total nerd over here. But I got some bone in game bags. I've just been struggling to release and even a lighter version of game bags. And I'm struggling because I'm struggling to find the American labor who can do it for a cost that actually customers will pay for. Because I don't make that much money on a set of game bags. Like, so I'm trying to, that's the difficult part is finding the labor. And you know, every industry is experiencing that. And people, you know, it's like all the trade skills, whether it's men or women, you know, welders and plumbers, carpenters, electricians, sores, seamstresses, these people have skills that are no one else has. And you've got to pay them to do it, you know, and sewing, especially it's, it's a dying art in United States. I mean, most of the sores for the bigger so shops, even if they are American owned in the US, they're all foreigners and or visa holders, green card holders, or first generation Americans, they're not just, they haven't lived, their grandpaul didn't own a farm, you know, yep. That's, that's not most of the sores in this country. Yeah. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. It's difficult. Yeah. All right. So recently, you've introduced some new products. And I'm just going to name them here. You, you introduced some skull hangers for European amounts, like all the way from deer to elk and then also some boot dryers, all right. And so whenever I see a company, I, there are companies that, okay, if, if you said to, if you said to me, hey, these game bags is where I started, but now I'm going to introduce a tent or another product that uses that same fabric, then I could understand it. But now you've jumped into an electrical product, these boot dryers, which is plastic and electrical, and then also metal skull hangers, right. So talk to us a little bit about these new skews that you're offering. And what gave you the idea for, or why these products to add to your lineup? So I know. So you're, you're correct. Everybody, especially in the hunting industry, there's a lot of you double down on one thing, like, you know, you get into the textiles and fabrics and stuff and you just go that to the end. And then the problem is though, that leads, that leads to a huge problem, which is so rampant is copying or trying to reinvent something that doesn't need changing. You know, there's a million tents, there's a million sleeping bags. They're, at this point, there's a million game bags. There's so many textile things, there's so many gadgets and things out there that are already done. My whole goal was to actually create things from my own brain that are unique. I don't want to copy anyone. I don't, that's, that was my main thing. I want to make something come from myself that is actually useful and better than what's out there. Or there is no current product at all to do it. So that's, that's kind of was my, my emphasis for it. Okay. All right. And so I mean, boot dryer, the boot dryer one, I want to get to that here in a second because it, I think it's unique. I think it's cool, but skull hangers, right? There's already been a skull hangers on the market for like decades now. Are, are your skull hangers made in America too? Yes, sir. Okay. So there's, there's, there's the big one. You know, it's made in America. The design you have is different. Talk to us a little bit about the, the design. And I know both the elk and the deer hangers are different. But talk to us a little bit about what makes these different from the rest of the skull hangers on the market or. Can I grab a skull right quick? Are you going to, are you going to show some of this video? Well, I, I, I do have it on, I do have it on YouTube, but I also will be descriptive in how we talk about it so that people can understand it. So yeah, if you need to go grab a skull and go do it. Yeah. No, I got it right here. I'll just grab the skull. I'll show you. So the deer skull hanger, you're right. There are a thousand. I've bought a thousand off Etsy and I was always disappointed. They were cheap, super thin gauge, pot metal shit, probably most of the time made in the foreign country and there was no quality control. So flimsy. And I'm like, man, I'm paying 10, 12, 15 bucks for this piece of shit. That's what I was, I mean, over and over. And I had a bunch of euros hanging in my basement or just sitting on the ground really. So I'm like, I got to, I got to figure this out. They're the better way. Then I have a couple bucks. One of them has a busted off main being and another one has no main beam at all. And they were just hanging weird. I'm like, no, no skull hanger. I have that's simple can do this. So I just made this little product that it's this long tab. It inserts into the back of the skull like that. And then I made two prongs go underneath each side of, you know, whatever that, the brain stem, the spinal cord entrance. So all you do is you slip that on and the head cannot rotate. It is locked in. It can't rotate any, which way it'll fit any, any deer, any small game. And I didn't, I've never seen anything like it. So I just thought, I scoured the market, didn't find anything like it and thought, that solves all the problems. It solves heads from rotating. It's high quality. It's powder coated. It's made in USA. And it's a different design, totally different. So yeah, that was my dear. Then I got a bowl here. So the same with the elk hanger, I, I thought lots of the elk hangers, they were either lots of them were cheap, I guess, you know, say 25 bucks, but they were terrible. You'd hang them up. Well, I'm not going to name this one company. But this, this big, you know, they're in cabellas and everything else. They have a hanger with like a center sheet steel on a swivel, and it's like their deluxe hanger. And I bought a couple of those in the head. So wobbly, it can fall off. It's just this big contraption. It sticks way out from the wall. I'm like, man, these mounts look like crap. And they're hanging off the wall three feet and it's just flimsy garbage. So I thought, man, I need to make a mount that's adjustable and more secure and be super easy, where you don't have to use stick and string and pliers and all this crazy shit to get your head to hang. So I built, I went through a ton of prototypes and I made a hanger that it sits behind the eyes of the elk. So it just hooks in right there behind the eyes and the occipital bones and other piece rests on the jaw. Okay. And the skulls locked in now this plate, there's a plate on the bottom of the mount with through holes. And there's an adjustment plate I sell with it. So what you can do is on a big bowl, like this is a medium sized five by seven. It can just go straight on the plate. You can put the adjustment plate out an after two and it'll bring the rear times closer or further from the wall. So you get a big bowl, a big 330 inch bowl. You're not going to be able to have his rear times. You don't want his rear times to hit the wall. Obviously won't fit on any mount. Yeah. So my plate allows for the bowl to sit the rear times go more upward or a smaller, the smaller the bowl gets the more you can go backward. So you can always get a clean against the wall. Look with your skull and elk skulls are very heavy. So a lot of them when you put them up, the bones of the jar or teeth or the rear times hit your dry one, gather the shit out of your paint. So this solves that too. Yeah. That's that's why I feel it was different enough to actually produce. And I've never seen an elk mount or any mount that fits behind an animal's eyes. Yeah. It'll hold a cow skull. It'll hold a bear. It'll hold any any big skull. Okay. What is that steel? Yeah. This is steel. This is like. Man. It's thicker than eighth inch. Yeah. Forget what it is. Yeah. It looks thick. And I will agree that I have a couple skull hangers downstairs that. I bought that that do have that bracket where it can swivel and you can move the head to the left or to the right. And I will say this. It's thin. And even something as light as a deer skull hanging on it, you can see it. Like being flimsy. Right? Yeah. I don't think it's going to. Yeah. You're talking about the same one I am. Yeah. And I don't think it's going to fall off my wall or anything. But, you know, something like my kids throwing a ball around downstairs could easily pop it off and knock it loose. So. Yeah, man. And then, and then also on a man. Mine come with fat. Everything you need. Instructions. Fasteners. A QR code. You can just go to the website and see, you know, how it goes up. But, you know, also you buy these skull hangers. They don't have screws to mount it to the wall. Mine are, you know, minor flush head screws. They look good. They're powder coated. They're all. Everything's matching. The eloquence tool list once you mount it to the wall. It's just I tried to make it simple and not just totally jipped people. Like I'm trying to give them value and not just, you know, I'm not trying to just mass produce something and rake in the cat. Yeah. I feel you. And I'll tell you what, that ultimately leads to good business if you ask me, right? If you, if you put the product before everything else, right? Maybe when you sell it. And usually this is what happens. If you say, you know what, I've done my time with the company. I think I'm going to sell it. Then let the other people raise the prices and screw everything up. I just feel like that's what happens, especially when. And I know this is kind of a side conversation. But anytime there's a really good product out there. It gets sold to one of these bigger companies that is basically a holding company for more products. It turns to shit because all they care about is money. And then the product suffers. And the customer service suffers. And I can sit here and name a name. Name. You know, four or five. Yeah, Dan, they. They save the, they save the 88 cents for a dollar extra to include the screws and the washers. They save the another 85 cents to make the steel thinner. They save another 50 cents to reduce the powder coating thickness. Like they just, yeah. And before you know it, you have a piece of shit. Yep. That's a fact, sir. Anything else special about the, the skull hangers? And do you have any plans for any other type? Any other versions of it? Okay. Yeah, I do have a plan for another version of the eloquin. But it's going to be a while out and the deer one actually. I'm working on a kind of a cool novelty version of the deer one. I don't really want to get into it because someone will take it, but. Yep. Yeah, I got, I got a few changes that won't happen this year, but maybe next year. Yeah. And you know what's funny about the hangers, Dan, as I thought, oh, man, these things are going to sell like hotcakes. And it isn't the end of the season yet. But then after I got these all made up. Package them and store them just like, you know what? I'm not really selling that many. I need to get the word out. But also, if you think about it, I sell these, the deer ones in a three pack. I'm like, man, even a good hunter, like your average good hunter who doesn't travel, he's going to use one a year. So unless they start giving them his gifts or they're traveling out of state, like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to sell as many as I thought. Like, yeah. And most people, you know, they're not going to even, they're not going to fill one a year. So. Right. Right. Exactly. Again, it's, it is a product that is plastic. It's electronic. It is different from everything else that you, you're currently doing. Why the, why this boot dryer. And then explain a little bit about what it is and why it's pretty cool. So kind of the same thing. Yeah. Lots of Western guy struggle with wet boots and when you're backpack hunting, you're kind of screwed. So if your boots get wet, especially if you have full grain leather boots, they're wet for, for the whole trip, essentially, unless you get really warm days early season. So that was happening to me. It was happening a lot of people and I think it was Brian call one time on his Gritty podcast. He was saying like, I just wish someone could sure wet boots. I'm like, oh, I don't know how to do that. Like, I got a pretty decent way. I did some calculations on the power usage and size I need and everything. So I'm like, I, I could figure. I have the same problem too. Like, I do need to figure that out. So I took my 3D printer and just made a prototype and sent it to him within like a week or so. And he's like, damn man, this, this thing actually works. And then so I started getting a little more commercialized with it and maybe sold, you know, a few of them to guys and then just kept kind of improving it along the way until I have what I have now. But it's it's even with us like lots of Western guys now they're using stokes and hot tents. And even if you do that, your boots, they the outsides get dry and you can put them right next to the stove and your leather will crack. But you're not getting warm air into the boot. It's pretty much impossible. So that was another thing like, oh, this will bring air into your boots and drive them out super fast. So I just, I got to work and started making this, started making the boot drive. Did you do, did you do any testing for like, okay, first off, let's explain it. Let's explain it here. It is a, it's two circular fans, right, that are completely enclosed. And they're, how, how, they're less than an inch thick, right? Yeah, the actual fan itself is like, yeah, 10 to 12 millimeters. Yeah, it's less than, it's probably three quarter an inch, the total profile. Total profile vertical. And then it's basically the end of it is like the size of a baseball bat. Somewhere around there. A little about three, about three inches. Three inches. Okay. Okay. And, and so those slide right down into the boot. And there is a switch on them that turns them on and the fans start to circulate, right? Yeah. So, yeah, you, you lace up the tongue your boots a little bit and you just pop these in the top of your boot. And you plug, you plug the USB and it's built in into any power bank. And it comes in an extension cord. But yeah, you're just plugging into any USB battery pack and boom, they start rolling. They draw air into the boot and they have vent holes so they, I know, humid air can escape. Gotcha. It's just drawing air into the boot. That's the main principle. Gotcha. And if, so yeah, if you want to, people could try this at home. But, um, lots of people have like the Pete boot dryers are like 110 plug and boot dryers. They have heat. Yep. But actually, if you take your wet boots, say you work all day and your boots are soaked, just flip them over and put a box fan on them pointing into the boot. Your boots will dry way better and they won't stink and they'll be dry 100% and much faster than there's like a heated boot dryer. Yeah. So people at home can just try that, you know, Midwest guys and see. Yeah. So did you do any tests where you took like a boot, just put it in a bucket of water to soak the whole thing. Don't dump it out and then throw these bad boys in and what was the result as far as time is concerned because I look at something like this. I go, OK, this is cool. But if I get back to camp at midnight and I got to be up at four, you know, or something like that or four or five or whatever the time is, what like hours, what the hours are, how long does it take to dry? Yeah, it's 70. I did do that before I even sent the first prototype, but it's 72 degrees Fahrenheit and I don't know the humidity inside my house. Let's say it was 55, I don't, I don't quite remember, but 50 50%, sorry, 50% some 55% somewhere in there. It took the dry time from boots, these full grain leather boots that I soaked. It took them to about two, two and a half hours. They were dry. To completely dry, you know, dry enough to wear. Whereas when I would not use them the next morning and into the next evening, they would still be what? Right. I mean, that's fast. And even if they're completely soaked and they've been soaked for four days, say your dry times four hours, your power usage is still negligible. So if you plug them in all night, your boots will be dry. As long as you're not camping in a cloud, like when I mule their home out west early season, and I'm high country, I don't bring them because I'm camping literally in a cloud. And as you'll be doing is pumping moist cold air into your boot. So in that case, you have to have a heat source. You'll have to have a wood stove. Now, if it's air it out, like it usually is in the west, then you put them in, you know, that's the caveat for the dryers. They're not, you know, they're not an outlet plug and dryer, but they're damn good from lots of situations out west. Gotcha. Okay. That's cool, man. And so good reviews from them for them from people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man, people love them. Yeah. And there's lots of, lots of hikers, campers, there's dudes that just keep them in their truck year round. And like, they'll just, they'll put their floor defrost on and pop the boot dryers in their truck cab and boom, their boots are drying while they're driving somewhere. Yeah. How long does the boot dryer, the battery in the boot dryers last like when you unplug it from the USB power source, turn it on. How long do they last? No, so it's only external power source. So there's no battery built and you have to have a power source. Okay. I got you. Yeah. You look, I show it on the website, but if you look at what the actual power usage is, it is looked at it in a while. I think it's 1.25 watts. Yeah. It's 1.25 watts. So it's, it's a quarter of the power using your phone. So imagine if you have your iPhone plugged in for say you have your iPhone plugged in for an hour charging. You know, it's at 50% you charge it for an hour and it's at 100. These boot dryers use a quarter of the power. So if you have them plugged in for four hours, it'll be the same draw off your battery as having your phone in for one hour. Does that make sense? Yes. So it's very low. So for a phone charge, you can dry your boots out completely into like very wet boots and you get two nights of drying your boots out for a phone charge. And so that's that's one of the design factors. I had to have them efficient because being a western hunter, I have to have my maps work first and foremost and my feet can suffer. So I thought, well, that that means it has to be low power consumption. You know, the lowest I can still make it and efficiently dry boots because I have to I would much rather have my in reach and my on X or whatever mapping software I'm using available. Then using boot, you know, if you had to make the trade off, you're going to use your maps every time you have to. Right. Right. Man, very interesting. It's cool to see companies like this prosper and, you know, take because I have a feeling this is the long road, right? You're in it for the long haul, not necessarily for quick returns and money right away. I've never made a dollar off cracks all because the money I have made just goes right back into the company and it's. Yeah, I am in it for the long haul. I want to actually build an innovative company. Yeah, that's a fact, man. Well, that's cool, man. Anything else about the product line that we missed? Any new products or categories that you're going to be addressing in the upcoming years? Yeah, I'm coming out like we talked about earlier. I'm coming out with some bone-in bags eventually every year. I last two years. I said, oh, I'm going to have them and have them by season and I haven't. So just some more bags and yes, I have a completely new product. It's I think it's even cooler than the boot dryer. I think it's 10 times cooler and there's nothing like it. And it's a lot of development and systems and stuff, but it's going to be used by Western hunters and Midwest hunters alike. That I've been working on for about two years. So I can't give much more way, but I'm trying to get it released at the Western home expo this year. Oh, cool. That's awesome, man. Good for you. So when it does come out, Dan, you'll be getting a you'll be getting one of them for sure. And it's a pretty it's a pretty high value. Pretty high value project. So it's not a cheap item, but it's a it's a cool item. That's cool, man. I can't I can't say anymore. I'm sorry, but. Gotcha. Is it a device that will drive your car for you and not get in an accident when you're driving home to or from a long western hunt? It's better than that, Dan. It'll do that and it'll text your wife, send her flowers. It will hire babysitters for the kids, a book massages, male masseuses to come to your home and oil up your wife. There you go. But not touching it further. It will do everything you want it to, Dan. It will be you, but better. And you won't be anyone. So it's a robot, basically. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. It's a tripling robot. There you go. All right, man. Well, hey, I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to come on here and talk about the company and talk about your new products. If people want to find more about Gracksaw, where should we send them? Just www.gracksaw.com. G-R-A-K-K-S-A-W. You can Google Gracksaw or you can go to Instagram, look at Gracksaw. I don't really post that much stuff on Instagram. I'm trying to get better about it, but I'm just terrible at it. Yeah. You can go to any of those places and check out what I got going. Perfect. All right, man. Appreciate it and good luck this upcoming season. Thank you, Dan. You as well. Thank you.