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What's up everybody?
Welcome back to the Honey Gear Podcast.
I'm your host Dan Johnson.
Today we're going to be talking with Nate Grace,
the chief engineer of Prime Archery.
He's going to break down some changes that have recently happened
over the last couple of years with Prime Bose.
If you were to look at a Prime Bow a couple of years ago,
you would automatically know what Bow that is.
They had the Quad Cam design, two cams up top,
two cams on the bottom.
The reason why they had that, you'll hear about today.
But there was a change that was coming.
There were some balancing issues and there were some stability issues
that they really couldn't nail down.
They decided to go to this new core cam design system.
That means that now there's only one cam up top
and one cam on the bottom.
That just changed.
When you look at a product, any product, car, truck, a house,
I don't know, you can tell the brand of it.
By taking the four cams away and replacing it with two,
you're changing the brand image.
There's a whole discussion on that.
The whole discussion on the 150 different prototypes
that they had to go through in order to get to what you see now
with this new Rev-X, Rev-X, I'm not sure how you say it.
But the new series that they have for 2023,
so it's a really good conversation.
I like the fact that I'm able to talk to an actual engineer
and not a marketing or a media guy because I get to ask
some pretty detailed questions to make that I don't feel like
a marketing guy could answer.
It's a really good episode.
I love seeing...
I mentioned in this podcast that one of my favorite bows
of all time was the Prime Logic.
I mentioned that to him and he asked me a couple questions about it.
But other than that, it's a really cool, informative,
behind the curtains type podcast about Prime Archery.
I hope you guys enjoy it.
Now, before we get into today's episode,
I am going to do some commercials.
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Last but not...
Well, I got two more, actually.
Hunt stand, all right?
These days, I am on Hunt stand.
I am e-scouting.
I am looking for access routes.
I'm checking wind direction.
I'm on that in my free time, which is very little these days.
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or I'm waiting to pick my kids up from school,
or I'm in the bathroom, pull up Hunt stand,
and just use their functionality, right?
So it's an awesome hunting app that just allows you to be more present
in your hunting strategy all year round.
Second, they have a new Pro White Tail platform
that everybody needs to go check out.
So Huntstand.com, go read up on all the functionality.
Then we have the Tacticam 6.0.
If you're looking to document your hunts, go check out Tacticam's
new 6.0 action cam.
It can be mounted to a bow.
It can be mounted to a gun.
And it has image stabilization and LCD screen records in 4K.
So it's the cat's pajamas of action cams,
especially for those who want to document their hunts.
Take it home, show their kids, show their buddies what they saw
and what they shot.
And so go check out Tacticam.com, awesome company.
There's the commercials.
Let's just cut the BS and get right into today's episode
with Nate Grace of Primarktree.
All right, I'm on the phone now with Nate Grace from Primarktree.
Nate, how you doing, man?
Doing very good.
Thanks, man.
Yeah.
All right.
And so it's been a while.
You've been on the podcast.
I think I actually interviewed you at an ATA show, like pre-COVID,
ATA show.
And that was the last time I spoke with you on this particular
podcast.
Oh, really?
There was something before COVID, huh?
Yeah.
There was a world before COVID, absolutely.
There was a world, yeah.
That's awesome.
So, and I love the fact that I'll just preface what we talked
about before I hit the record button and you said,
hey, I'm not necessarily the marketing guy.
I get paid to draw pictures and do some of the engineering work.
And that's why I love having guys like you on the podcast because
there's certain questions that I've asked in the past where a
marketing guy or a media guy would just say, yeah, that's a
great question, but I don't necessarily know the answer.
That would be something for our engineer to answer.
And so now that I have the engineer online here, I can, you
know, I can ask those questions.
Well, you know, so when I get my back, you know, up it comes
to a while, we just say, I'll have to ask the marketing guy.
So there's always someone to blame, right?
There's always somebody else, yeah.
Perfect.
Okay.
So for prime archery, I mean back in the day, and this is, when I
say back in the day, how many years now has it been since you guys
have went from the dual cam to the single cam?
This is their second year.
Second year, okay.
And so back as far back as two years ago, right, prime was
known for this look with two cams, two on the top, two on the
bottom.
And I mean, you didn't even need to know what the brand name was.
You could just look at the bow and say that's a prime.
Okay.
So my first question to you is, what was the reaction that prime
got once it went from that dual cam to the single cam?
It was mixed for sure.
Like you said, we knew kind of going into it.
You know, part of our identity was the quad cam or the parallel
cam or the four cam, you know, whatever kind of people noticed
about our bows.
I mean, that was the biggest thing.
There were some other differences, but obviously that's
what we thought about.
So a lot of our guys that really bought into prime and were prime
guys, they were a little bit missed like what?
I thought this is, you know, this is who you guys are.
But a lot of the other guys that were always kind of on the fence
about us were kind of like, I can understand that now.
Kind of the appearance of being more complex.
You know, there was a second string track, even though it was just
a symmetrical track.
I guess to me it's not functioning in a lot of ways that people
interact with the bow differently.
You know, it's handling the forces and all that stuff on the
axle differently.
You know, that us engineers, you know, could see the difference,
but for the average guy, we didn't really see that as being
a big deal.
But when we switched over guys that were like, man, I can't deal
with five strings or seven strings.
You know, give me three and we'll call it good.
Those kind of guys were definitely much more like, hey,
you know, maybe they were staying away from prime because it just
seemed a little bit too complex for them.
And now they're, well, yeah, let me shoot the bow.
I'm not sure if I'm going to do it myself, or owning something
with three strings rather than five or more.
So it was kind of a mix at the beginning.
And a lot of guys thought, well, you know, with the parallel
can, we were supposed to be handling the loads on the axle
differently than everybody else.
And so now that you went to a three track system, do you just
not care about that?
You know, that was kind of a natural question.
And from, you know, from 20 yards out, the R3 track system looks
very similar to everybody else and the three track systems out
there all have gambling issues and, you know, left and right issues
and stuff like that.
And so they just assume, well, you're going to have the same
problem with yours.
And, you know, once we were able to show them, hey, we're doing
something different, we're actually traversing the cables
into and underneath the string as you draw the string backwards.
And that's how we're controlling the gambling or the forces on the
axle in a very, very similar way or maybe not in the same way,
but the end result is a very steady cam system like the
parallel.
So we're not giving up the, the camling control or that
horizontal not travel is what we always referred to it as.
Any differently than the parallel cam.
So we're not giving that up.
We still believe that's as important as it was on day one when
we launched Prime back in 2011.
Okay.
All right.
And so talk to us a little bit about that step.
And so it sounds to me like just because it looks different
doesn't mean it is different.
And so, you know, you're still, you have still addressed the old
issues with the new design of a single cam bow.
Get into the details about what this, this system, this new system
is that you guys have incorporated and why it's so, I guess,
and the technology behind it.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it goes right back to the parallel cam.
If you look at the axle that's going through, you know, the
limb tips and through the cam, if you can kind of imagine that like
a teeter totter, you know, just like the one that you had and,
I don't know, it depends on how old you are, you know, they've
gotten rid of a lot of the cool playground stuff.
I don't know if teeter totters are considered dangerous now.
But there was this thing called a teeter totter.
And, you know, if the two kids that were on the end of this poll
basically, you know, sitting up, they were the same size,
and everything was kind of fun.
The teeter totter worked the way it was.
But, you know, all it took is one big kid to get on the one side
and one little kid, and the big kid always won out, right?
Right.
The little kid on the other side, he was, you know, lighter,
half the weight or whatever, is Peeper Danglin' in the air,
and this isn't fair.
So that's the same thing that's naturally happened with
compound bows.
It's the same thing that Alan went when he came up with a
compound bow or the cams system mentioned that.
So the cool thing about the cams is, you know, you get a
leverage, the forces, and so the tension on the string goes up
a little bit, and then it comes down.
But on the cables, when you draw back, they just go up, up, up,
up.
So there's really only two points in your jaw force curve where
those forces are equal.
Outside of that, either the string's got more force or the
cables got more force, and so that cam is basically teeter
tottering, or that axle is teeter tottering.
So it's leaning left and then maybe right, you know, and
obviously your string's attached to that, what's attached to your
string is your knot.
And so that knot travel, you know, when you pull that trigger
and that, release that string and it's pushing that knot forward,
it's going to follow that camline and that axle tilting.
So with the parallel cam, we just split the loads of the string
and put the cable tracks right down the center.
So everything was completely balanced.
It didn't matter when you were drawing the bow back.
All the forces were balanced all the time.
With typical, you know, cams like I was talking about before,
again, they're only balanced at two points of the jaw cycle.
Other than that, the string track, the main feature on the cam
that everybody's looking at is either tilting to the left or
to the right.
It's never straight up and down.
So with this new three track system, so last year it was
the inline cam system, we updated it.
It's called the core cam system this year.
But what we're doing is it looks like a three track system,
similar to maybe elite Hoyt, some of the early bow tech cams.
And there's probably a few other guys out there that have it.
I guess Hoyt has that now as a three track as well.
So if you were to start like a right handed bow and on your right
side is a cable track, a second cable track and then the string
track, and that's what our cam looks like.
As you draw back, those two cables will actually start to
traverse.
Even though all three of the string cable and second cable
tracks are all side by side, before you draw the string back,
as you draw back, those two cables actually start to move
underneath each other and then underneath the string track.
And that's how we're balancing that load as you draw the bow back.
So it's basically cam lean.
It doesn't mean anything.
Does it matter?
It does because it's attached to the knock.
And what we're trying to do with this, just like the parallel cam
was control that left and right knock travel.
Not just the vertical that everybody's been talking about
for 30 years, but the left and right as well, our core cam system
on the new bows this year in the inline cam, which had the
cam system last year, basically have those traversing,
those laterally traversing cable tracks in order to manage that.
Okay.
So the buzz word phrases start about that.
Yeah.
So the buzz word here though is balance.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And so not only is the balance in the not travel up down left
right, but what about cam timing?
Does this help with cam timing as well?
Not necessarily.
No.
I mean, one of the things that's unique about us is our grip is
and we're not a pull from center system like Matthews is probably
the biggest name in bows.
Their top and bottom cams are symmetrical.
So if you were to lay them over top of each other,
they're basically the same thing.
They just have cable tracks on different sides of the string
tracks.
With us, where we have the, we actually pull above center and our
top and bottom cam are actually different shaped.
And that's more of a way to control that vertical not travel.
It's a slave system with the cables so that our cables aren't
going to the axle.
There's no split yoke system or anything like that.
So it's a slave system.
So that helps.
But with our unique bow design, how we control the vertical
not travel is by having that top cam be in a different shape and
be a larger than the bottom cam.
Okay.
And then that, so that offsets the center pull.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
Because the distance from the not to the top axle is shorter on our
bow than the distance from the not to the bottom axle.
Right.
So we're like a center pull system like PSE and Matthew's,
what they have is that distance is equal from the not.
So their cams are symmetrical top and bottom.
Okay.
All right.
What I always get interested in, especially with bow
manufacturers is the round table that everybody, you know,
sits around and they have the conversation of what are we going
to do next next year and the year after that.
And maybe even in some instances, you guys already have planned
out for the next three or four years or whatever.
Right.
When you guys were at that table and you were discussing,
let's move away from the dual cam system and get into this,
the single cam system, was there already engineering and design
and, you know, like you said, all I do is draw pictures.
Was there any CAD pictures and things like that that had to
be brought to the table first?
I mean, were you testing this the whole time?
What did that, what did that conversation within prime look like?
Well, I, we're a little bit, we're probably different than the,
the typical, we're not quite as linear as everybody else.
At least what everybody thinks is a typical product development
group, you know, so the other bow companies maybe or not.
I don't know, I've never worked there, so I don't know what they
are, but this, we're not quite as linear.
When we started the parallel cam, we knew there were some,
some negatives to it.
Every system has a negative.
And, you know, one of, and some of the negative was there was just
more metal, the two string tracks were thinner and tend to vibrate
a little bit more.
We thought maybe over time we could figure out ways to mitigate
that and reduce that vibration.
And then there were, you know, some other things that came up
through the years, guys wanted rotating mods, the modular system
on that was, you know, a little bit hard because of the two tracks,
stuff like that.
So early on, we were already aware of the issues.
We were already working on other cam systems that we would develop
and see, you know, and test.
Well, okay, so I solved this one problem, but now we have this new
problem we don't like.
And we also have another bow brand quest that we've been doing.
And so every year through that we've developed all kinds of single
cam and a half, different twin cams, different slave systems
through the years.
So we got to be really, we were quite, we were quite,
we were quite intimate with every cam system out there, the pluses
and minuses, and then all the systems that we were building
through the years.
So it was kind of one of those things where, you know, we
develop a lot of stuff that never gets to the market.
And it just got to be one of those where we saw, we just couldn't,
we couldn't manage the vibration and the noise from the parallel
cam.
So what do we got?
So, I guess what were the options?
Yeah.
So we went back to engineering and went through all of our notebooks
and all of our prototypes and was kind of like, well, this system
could work.
We never really got it to work, but boy, if we could, it would be
awesome.
And so we just, okay, well, let's do what it takes to get it to work.
And I think it took just about over a year to finalize it, but we,
you know, some of those prototypes and some of that knowledge was
built over 12 years of just constantly building things.
Because there's lots of times we'll just come up with the idea,
hey, this would be really cool to solve.
Let's go build it, test it for just the simple fact that it doesn't
work.
Like we don't even know because there's a lot of times when you build
something, you're like, well, yeah, it doesn't work at all.
So we have piles of that stuff, you know, just that we can always
pull from.
So sometimes, you know, some of those halfway figured out ideas,
you know, we started six years ago, you know, put two years into
it.
It's just been sitting around since then and then we'll have time
to finish it or maybe a fresh take on it to be able to like, oh,
that hurdle that we couldn't get past or that wall we couldn't get
through, we figured out how to get through it.
Yeah, it was a lot of that product design and prototype.
Is that all done in-house?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
I mean, through the years we've had a few, you know, we're not the only
intelligent people in the world.
So there's been ideas that have come from the outside.
You know, people come up that are just passionate about it.
They have a real day job.
They love hunting, they prototype something and they're like,
hey, what do you think?
But yeah, 99% of it is all done.
And so the reason I asked that question is because what that
allows you to do then, and correct me if I'm wrong, is it
allows you to almost streamline and speed up the prototype
process and the development process to where you have the
ability to just create a whole bunch of stuff and test it on a
shorter period of time.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, excuse me, we spend a lot of time just on that
process of how do you develop a CAM system.
You know, when I first started developing CAMs, you know,
however long ago that is now 18 years ago, 20 years ago,
whatever, you know, it would take us a couple days to develop a
CAM, you know, that was good enough to get onto a bow and drop
back, shoot it, see what it does.
But now we can do that in about two hours.
We can go from an idea to a shootable product in about two
hours.
So we've spent a lot of time through the years just developing
that process.
Okay.
Same with limbs, risers.
You know, we, that prototype process, like you said, the
shorter that is, boy, I mean, you, it's not just having one good
idea that you get through that cycle.
It's having five or six a day that you can go through and
bang out a whole bunch of stuff that you're like, hey, that
one really sucked.
Yeah.
Don't do that again, but we learned something.
So try this next one.
Okay, that one sucked a little bit less.
But just keep working at it and, and, you know, I think a lot
of people might have the impression, at least, you know, maybe
other places are like this, but at prime, we don't, where we just
calculate everything on a board.
And then the first time you make it at work.
I don't, that's not reality.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So this, this new core CAM system that you guys have
introduced was, was that just a bunch of prototyping and testing
like you, you said, or was it, was it more of a, hey, man, we got
this design.
I think it's going to work.
You, you tested it a couple times and it, it, it worked to
your guys's liking.
Well, it's kind of, this one was kind of funny because my right
hand man for the longest time, his name is Scott Prater.
He's a missionary now in Thailand.
Okay.
But him and I, you know, worked on everything up until about a year
ago together through Prime's history.
And I just remember arguing with him about this.
And, and I was like, dude, we've tried that so many times.
It's never worked.
It won't work.
He's like, no, I got one.
Give me one more crack at it.
I'm like, all right, do whatever you think.
And then like two weeks later, he came back and he's like, I got it.
I think this thing is going to work.
And I'm like, yeah, you're right.
It, it, it's performing better than I thought.
So, but since then, you know, we had 30, 40 revisions since that
point to get to the inline cam system.
And then from inline to the core cam system, which they're,
they're fundamentally doing the same thing.
They have traversing cable tracks that come underneath that
string track.
So, with the Rev-X bows and the core cam system, we had over 150
prototypes, a cam prototypes that we developed.
And that was more trying to go after very minute, not travel
tunability kind of thing.
So fundamentally, we already kind of figured all out how to keep
that load balanced on the inline cam.
But just to work out, not travel with extreme, you know, FOC,
short draw, all the different styles of rest that are out there
just trying to really make, is, is there a certain knock travel
in a very minute kind of way.
We're not talking, you know, a quarter inch or, you know, it's
something that's even kind of hard to measure.
But is there something there that would be more tuner friendly
with all the variety of, of setups that are up on the market
today?
So we had a hundred, over 150 revs just in the, the core cam
system from last year.
Okay.
So then, so then as you guys are, you know, fine tuning the cams,
does the rest of it kind of fall into place?
And what I mean by that is all the other buzzwords that people
talk about like, draw cycle or energy efficiency, which really
is like hand shock and things like that.
Did that all fall into place?
Or did each one of those categories then have to be addressed
as well?
No, you're, you're right.
Everyone of those had to be addressed.
And that's the, the primary reason, not the primary, but yeah,
I mean, of those 150, yeah, there was a big swap that was for,
for subtle not travel changes.
Others were draw cycle.
Other was efficiency.
Yeah, it's trying to find that, that ratio between, between
everything and the compromises that you're trying to make with
the different features to get the total package correct.
Yeah.
Okay.
And so, and so you, you got the cam, the cam system and then doing
what you want, you've reduced the, the not travel like you've wanted.
Go into the detail then about like the, and we can just talk about
the Rev X now, leaning into this new, you know, this new bow cycle.
What were some of the issues then that needed to be addressed on the
Rev X as you're, as you're building this bow and as you're trying to
make it ready for market?
Yeah, I mean, again, we, we spent most of the time on the, on the,
on the cam this year, but, but yeah, the, the, the way the
riser flexes, because every riser flexes their lungs, skinny parts.
So that's the other equation, the not travel, but that, you know,
vibration and noise come into play there as well.
So there's a lot of fine tuning there that we do with the cutouts
and, and different things you can think and then, then up areas of,
of the top riser.
So it flex a little bit more like the bottom vice versa that we,
we go through every year.
Same with the, even the, the, the cutouts and some of that stuff in
the cam as well, where you put mass and where you take it away will,
will help the feel and the sound of the bow.
The other one was just the, the string stop.
We, we had a little, was kind of like a hole in the center of our
string stop, which kind of seemed like it really shouldn't matter.
And it was there for manufacturing purposes only, but we found that,
that was actually making a, a noise when we were shooting the bow.
And so we reshaped that, just that rubber piece on the end of that,
that rod to make it quieter.
We were able to reduce the tone of the bow by just making it subtle
change there.
String weights, all that stuff, I'd all played into the, the feed or,
or sorry, the feel, the speed and the sound of the bow.
So there's a lot of little subtle things that are going on,
little details that most of the time we leave out because the vast majority
of people don't want to know all those little kind of, those details,
but there's a lot that goes in every year.
Yeah.
And, and at the end of the day, how much do people, like, how much do people
even care about what we're talking about?
You know, like, so when you get feedback from an end user, do they even care
about all the details that go into these bows?
Or are they more concerned of, I, I want to shoot a, I want to shoot a bow.
I shot this bow.
It's all, it feels awesome.
I want to buy it.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, at the end of the day, they just, they, they want to pursue their passion,
you know, and as long as the tool or the bow or, or whatever is,
is allowing them to do that, that's, that's what they care about.
Right.
And so for us, it's our job to try to interpret that back.
Okay.
Well, they don't know what string weights do.
Yeah.
But I do.
So, so what does that mean to them?
And, you know, there are things that we've spent an enormous amount of time
and effort into at the end of the day that consumer doesn't even care about.
They're like, I, I don't care.
So, I mean, that's been a learning process for us through the years of speaking their language.
Even though we're all hunters ourselves, that's why we started all this is because,
well, we didn't really think this was going to take off when we started G5 and, and prime.
Yeah.
You know, our day job was making parts for other people, their industries, but we bow hunted
and that's what we cared about.
But, you know, you're just one person and, there's a lot of the people with a lot of,
uh, ideas and needs.
Yeah.
But generally, yeah, they don't care about why it's that way.
They just want to know that this is going to, this is going to help, right?
Right.
Let me get that buck or that bowl or.
Gotcha.
All right.
So, you know, when you look at bows on paper, right?
Like 32 inch axle to axle, six inch brace.
I draw weight, blah, blah, blah, you know, weight, blah, blah, blah, draw weight, blah, blah,
blah.
So when you look, when you look on, uh, these, at some, some bows on paper, it doesn't look
like much, anything is changing, really.
Right.
And so the speed is relatively the same, you know, there might be some gradual speed over
the years that kind of comes with new design features or technology.
Bose might get lighter because of, you know, a carbonizer and things like that.
So what actually makes a bow better in your hand than what it does on paper every year?
Yeah.
I mean, that's what we've been kind of trying to tackle, um, with, um, like you said, I
mean, it's been years since the speeds really changed, you know, um, weights, you know,
when the, the carbon bow came out, you know, that had the ability to drastically change
some of the weights.
Um, yeah.
Seems like carbon bows now are the same as, is the aluminum bows.
Um, but yeah, I think for us, what we've been focused on, it was one was the, um, the
bows ability to push the shaft, uh, cleanly and repeatably and that's where the, the
not travel, the horizontal and the vertical not travel, um, kind of came in and the
features like the, our parallel cam and now going into our core cam system, the flexing
cable guard, uh, the swerve on the rise or all that was the, the, the, tried to combat
that, uh, you know, the, how easy a bow is to tune, um, and, and those kind of things.
But lately we've been kind of going after more of how that bow aims, um, which it's,
it's a little harder to, to explain that, but as a shooting sport, that's kind of like
priority number one.
Like if you can't hit what you're intending, does anything else really matter?
Um, and so that's what we've been going after with the, the center grip, um,
rise or design and, and some of the other things, um, to be able to help those, those
aspects of, of our sport.
Gotcha.
Okay.
All right.
So, um, how, how do you guys judge customer feedback?
Whether, you know, you put a bow in someone's hand and how, how does a lay person explain
to an engineer what needs to be done better or what they like?
And how, and then how do you change that?
Yeah, that's, that's, um, that's even harder to explain.
I mean, it, it, it, I mean, it really comes down to us, uh, engineers just being around
customers more in that right.
It, it, it sounds so simple that everybody on the other side, but, um, just to be able
to see people struggle with something, um, not be able to communicate it, but you can
see they're struggling with that jaw cycle or they, they really don't like that, how
that grip feels or, um, boy, they shot yesterday or last week at, um, league really well, but
today they're really struggling.
I wonder why, you know, um, it's just getting into the messy part of just having more relationships
with people that use, use this stuff and, you know, and then, and then opening yourself
up and not trying to be so secretive of, hey, here's a potential solution.
So maybe this is part of next year's product line, but just bringing it out to the public
sooner and being like, hey, try this.
Does this help?
No, it makes it even worse.
See, like, wow, that's weird.
Yeah.
And then just, yeah.
Gotcha.
Uh, the other thing that I, I kind of, I'm always interested in knowing is we have, I'm
looking at the, the revex, the new bows from the revex series here and you got the 32 axle
to axle, the 34 axle to axle, the 36.
And then you have, um, the 32 and the 34 both have, you know, six and a quarter inch brace
heights.
And then the 36 has the, uh, the six and three quarters.
How do you guys know what specs to bring to the table?
And I'm going to ask another question after this, which is, um, is, is this trend based
or is this how these bows perform at these specs?
Well, axle axle, um, is, is really a, uh, I mean, there's, there's a couple of different
styles of hunting, um, that would dictate a longer versus shorter.
Um, and then there's just, um, geography, you know, guys where there's heavy timber
aren't shooting as far as distances, um, then guys out in the mountains in the plains, the
further shooting further distance.
Um, you know, um, so there's, there's styles of, of hunting and comforts and stuff as well.
Um, that, that kind of dictate the axle axle.
Uh, some is jaw length, a guy with longer jaw lengths, can it typically shoot a longer
axle axle?
Just the way that string presents itself to their face is more comfortable.
Um, but then the rest of the stuff, brace height, it, it, that is really driven by speed.
Um, you know, it used to be a sin to go believe, you know, below seven inches, you know, I
don't know, 10, 15 years ago.
Yeah.
Um, but that's kind of been broken and, uh, um, yeah.
Yeah.
And then, uh, you know, everything else kind of follows, uh, from there.
Yeah.
Cause I just remember, uh, I don't know, I think we're coming out of it now and I'm starting
to see the minimum now be more in that 32 axle axle range, but you know, previously,
we were getting into that 28 to 20, you know, even lower axle to axle range and it just felt
like it was an industry trend.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think perhaps, I mean, um, I'm not all knowing, but perhaps, uh, part of that reason
is it seemed like the other thing that's been broken the last 10 years is that the distance.
Um, you know, when you start to take a white tail past 20 yards, people are like, well,
that's, that's kind of a suspect.
Uh, you know, maybe they had a moral or an ethical, uh, and, you know, complain about
that, but you know, guys are, you know, the equipment and everything with range finders
and just people's passion are there.
They're just able to take longer shots more accurately than they have in the past.
So I think maybe that's helped move some of this.
Yeah.
Um, I mean, animals are still animals.
So, um, you know, reaction times and stuff like that, but I, I, you know, you probably
know guys yourself that, I mean, they, they, they can read the body language of that animal
so well.
Yeah.
And they know that, that animal that they're hunting so well that they know if, if they're
going to dock or if they're jittery or, or whatever.
So, so, you know, people, I think just education there as well of being able to read that animal
body language to be able to, to know like, Hey, that, that deer's only 30 yards of men
once I pull a trigger that, then I'm going to be 10 feet from where I'm hitting by the
time the arrow gets there.
Right.
Don't take that shot or, you know, that animal is so relaxed right now you can go ahead and
stretch out and, and, and make that shot that you've been shooting behind your house six
months straight and you know, yeah, with a lot of confidence.
So, so I will say that part of it.
Yeah.
Um, as well.
Okay.
All right.
Anything else?
I mean, uh, for us, um, part of the reason what we have, uh, typically the 34 35 inch
axle axle has been more of our customer, um, wheelhouse than, than the shorter axle axle.
Gotcha.
That's the only other reason why we tend to be a little bit longer than everybody else
as well.
Okay.
Cool.
Cool.
Well, I'll tell you this, Nate, um, I have in my head a list of bows that I have just
loved throughout the years.
Um, one of them was the very first bow that I ever bought with my own money and it's because
it was such a huge jump from, um, from what I was shooting that it was, you know, a brand
new flagship bow.
And in this top five of all the, all my favorite bows throughout the year, I will say that
the prime logic, the first year you guys brought the logic out was, was probably one
of my favorite bows of all time that I've ever shot.
And, uh, and then, you know, you jumped up in that logic series, uh, from there.
I, I love that bow.
I loved what prime, you know, I love what prime is about.
And, uh, uh, and so although last year I did not get the opportunity to shoot, um, to shoot
the single cam, I did this year.
And man, you guys, that's a, it's a really good bow, man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We've been getting, um, uh, really good feedback with it.
Um, we're real happy we're, we're the product of this year.
Um, can I ask why the, the logic, what was it about it that?
Yeah.
I think it might have been one of the, the very first bows that I ever, it might have
had, I think it had limb stops on it.
And so, okay, as I drew back, my anchor was a rock solid.
And I just felt like I had more control over that bow and that confidence just led to
better accuracy.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's pretty common.
Yeah.
I can see that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, um, you know, we're, we're coming to the end here.
So I really do appreciate you taking time out of the day to hop on and, and talk to
us a little bit about, you know, your guys's process and, and the new cams that are on
the, the Rev X and, uh, all of the other stuff that we talked about today.
Uh, if, if people want to find out more about your guys's, uh, new lineup, where do we send
them?
Uh, you can just send them to g5prime.com.
Perfect.
Perfect.
All right, Nate.
Well, I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to do this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Stick around.
Yeah.