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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Hunting Gear Podcast.
I'm your host Dan Johnson, and today we're going to be talking with Jeff Miller of Vantage Point Archery, VPA.
And it's a good conversation, man.
These guys are a broad-head company that kind of spawned, like most outdoor or hunting industry companies do,
out of another company. So there was a machining company that did whatever it is that they do,
and the guy goes, hmm, and this guy is Jeff Miller, he's just like, you know what?
I started shooting traditional archery. I think we could make a broad-head and out spawns VPA.
And what's cool about VPA is that they are a single machined broad-head out of one piece of material.
And now I know that there are some other companies out there that have similar products, but not all their products.
And so today is a really good conversation about how the company started, about their product design, their engineering, their testing,
and all of the skews as well as how they got to the point that they're at today.
And it's just a really good conversation about an American company being successful in their said space,
and we all like to hear stories like that. So awesome episode. A huge shout out to those guys for taking time out of their day to hop on the phone and chat with me.
I'm going to keep this quick as it is, what time is it? It's like 9.30 at night, and I coached football tonight,
and then I had to take my daughter to dance, and here I am. So I got to finish this up quick, and we're going tethered.
If you're looking for a badass saddle, go check out tethered. You know, I'll just say this.
They got everything you need to become a saddle hunter.
They also have the educational information that you need as well. So if you want to learn how to become a better saddle hunter and not just have the gear,
then you definitely need to check out tethered because they're, excuse me, they're the place to be.
Hunt stand, again, an app that allows you to do so many different things, right?
It allows you to obviously look at up-to-date satellite imagery, look at land ownership, look at all the stuff that all the other apps have.
But the best thing about Hunt stand is it allows you to index, yeah, index trail camera photos.
It allows you to check out RUT dates. I mean, the functionality is ridiculous. Go to HuntStand.com, read up on all the functionality,
and while you're there, check out the Pro White Tail platform upgrade as well.
If you're serious outdoors, man, you're going to like that.
And then last but not least, we have, oh, we got here, we got Tacticam.
And so Tacticam is an action camera, and it can mount to your bow or your gun.
The new 6.0 version has image stabilization, it has an LCD screen, it records in 4K.
Overall, it's badass, and you need to go check it out.
My favorite part about action cams is you can record your Hunt, you can bring that footage back, show your kids, show your wife, show your friends and family,
and basically they won't call you a BS or any more.
And you can actually show them what you saw.
So go out and support the companies that support this podcast.
Huge shout out to Jeff for taking time out of his day. Huge shout out to all of you for taking time out of your day.
To download and listen to this podcast, do me a big favor and go leave a five star review wherever you download your podcast.
I would really appreciate that. And that's it. Let's get to today's episode.
3, 2, 1. All right, on the hunting gear podcast with me today, Mr. Jeff Miller from Vantage Point Archery, Jeff, what's up, man?
Hey, how's it going? It's going good, man. Hey, are you a turkey hunter?
Well, I'm planning on going to West Virginia in about two weeks and see what I can kick up down there.
Is turkey hunting at the top of your priority list every year or, or like, for me, it's on the bottom.
I'm a white tail guy first. I'm a turkey guy second.
Yeah, I don't do it. It's not my top priority, but it's kind of nice to be able to get out in the spring and everything's flowers and everything are blooming.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, there in the wilderness. I'll tell you what, something about a turkey gobble getting really close and then being able to hear him spit and drum.
Man, that'll get the hairs on the back of my neck standing up.
Yeah.
All right. So, Vantage Point Archery, that's the topic today here. We're going to talk about this company.
Why don't you tell it? First off, where is Vantage Point located?
It's located in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Okay, Fort Wayne, Indiana. And so, how long have you been with the company and what is your role in the company?
Well, basically, it's part of, it's separate, but it's part of absolute machining and I'm a machinist.
Okay.
And so I've been working for absolute machining since 2004.
And since I'm a machinist and I'm a bow hunter, I did start getting into traditional archery about around 2000.
And so, being a machinist, I kind of like to make my own things and improve products and stuff like that.
So, basically, we started in 2009, we started up the company, Vantage Point Archery. Okay.
And just I designed a broad head on one of our rotary indexers machined on a solid steel.
And so, most of your broad heads are multi-piece, four or five-piece separate blades and everything.
Those can be weak points in the broad head itself.
And being able to make it out of solid bar stock is an advantage in being able to heat treat and everything, all one piece.
And after a lot of testing and everything, it just held up really well.
And you can basically shoot multiple animals with them and just keep resharpening them.
So, they are extremely durable and easy to sharpen and being able.
They may cost a little more in the beginning, but since you can keep resharping them, the more you can use them,
then cost radically goes down.
Yeah. All right. So, you started with the company as a machinist.
You're also a traditional bow hunter and then was this just something that started off as you tinkering around with something?
Or did you have a goal of starting a broad head company?
I didn't really have a goal to start one, but I shot the cut-on-contact broad heads that were basically multi-piece,
a silver-soddered braids together.
And I got to looking at them and thinking that, well, I could machine these and making one solid piece and eliminate any of the weak points
and being able to use different types of steel.
And that's basically where it started.
So, I tried to make some prototypes and basically I was shooting 250-grain broad head
and with building it up with inserts and everything to get the weight up there.
And so, that's kind of what I started off making is a 250-grain three blade.
And then that worked out really good. We did a lot of testing, shooting at different media and stuff, and it held up really well.
So, we kind of, that's where we're right after that. We pretty much started the vantage point archery.
And then the product kind of got out there by word of mouth for basically several years.
And it just kept rolling and every year we kept adding more weights and designs and everything until we're here where you are now.
So, okay. Let's talk a little bit about that machining process of one solid piece because I believe there's a couple other companies who machine one solid piece or broad heads out there that machine one solid piece for their broad heads.
What is it? You mentioned weak points in design. What is it about a solid piece that makes it more durable?
Well, if you say there's no joints on it where it's silver-sider together, where something's going to break when you hit something hard or bone or something, it's going to usually snap at the joints where it's put together.
And since it's made out of solid bar stock, there's no joints that are soldered together or anything.
Right. It makes it stronger there. Yeah. So when you were doing your prototypes and doing your testing, what did that testing look like?
Because obviously, you know, being in the machinist, you can't just go, hey, I designed this. Let's start a business. It's not really that simple.
Obviously, there had to be some testing and some 2.0 versions, 3.0 versions of the broad head to get it to a quality where it could be sold to the public and it would actually kill some deer.
So what did that testing process look like for you guys?
Well, basically, we had the original design and we did a few prototypes and he treated them and got them ready and then we did some testing and shooting at different media, cinder blocks, basically 55 gallon drums, metal drums and stuff like that.
Yeah. And doing some penetration tests on different things and seeing how they held up and basically doing a little tweak in here and there and to improve the performance and durability and trying different materials and stuff like that.
So it's basically a continuous improvement year after year, but the original design, there wasn't a whole lot that had to be done to the original design to make it work good.
Most of the experience in doing that was trying to get packaging and had to come up with the name for the company and everything else.
So the actual design of the product for the way you're making it sound, the design of the product, the creation of the product was the easy part.
Yeah, the first one. I mean, a three blade broad heads pretty much a three blade broad head. Yeah. And it's just a matter of like pyramid in the point. So it's not a needle point and stuff like that to make the point stronger.
And since it's pretty much, you know, it's a one piece machine broad head, you don't have to put it together. So, yeah.
And it's just a matter of trying to get the length and the width and everything. So you decided on an inch and eighth was a good place to start.
Yeah, you have, you know, it's legal in every state and it's not too wide to, you know, hinder penetration is, it's not too narrow to get a good blood trail.
Yeah.
So, and from there we just went with different weights that people were asking for.
Okay. I want to talk about this process, this machining process. I find machining really interesting because obviously you can machine a rim for a car.
And you can also machine like large objects, but then you can also machine something as small as a broad head if not smaller. And so there are a lot of, there's a, especially in the thread of the broad head itself.
Talk to us a little bit about the intricacies of machining a broad head out of a solid piece of metal.
Well, basically, to make the blank for the broad head, we have to use a lathe and then we will have CNC lathe so we basically making the blank out of solid bar stock.
So we get, we get, we used to get 12 foot bars in and we have to cut them into four foot that would feed through the lathe.
Now, now we're getting, we have automatic bar feeders and everything since we've grown.
And so they cut them in three foot lengths from the steel supplier.
And then we just load the bar feeder up with whatever size stock we need to use.
So if you use like instant eight, it'll, it'll push that bar, however much, however long the broad head is through the spindle of the lathe and it'll create that original profile of the cone.
And so after we did that, we had to figure out a way to hold on to the blades to fixture it up to machine it.
And then on a rotary index or on a CNC mill and then another operation to hold on to those blades and machine the threaded portion.
Okay.
And we've modified the data over the years till we come to the point where it seems to be working the best, most consistent spins the truest and everything right off the machine so gotcha.
And so the, obviously the machine that does the machining has to be very deep, like, like precise. I take it.
Yes.
The machines that we're using now are made by Akuma and they have a two tenths, two tenths of an inch tolerance, like 002.
Okay. So it's a very fine tolerance state, extremely reliable and rigid machines that we use the machine with.
Okay. So as you guys, you know, you're messing around with the prototype, you do the testing, you say, Hey, let's take this to market.
You finally get the name, vantage point, archery, you get the packaging and all that stuff. What was the initial reaction from the public about the podcast or, excuse me, about the broad heads that you guys released.
Well, I say, is all word of mouth and we pretty much gave some way for people to test and everything and people loved them so much that they said, well, you need to make these for everybody, because I was pretty much originally started making it for myself.
Yeah. And so the different people that we gave them to test and everything in trying to really liked them. And so pretty much went from there. I mean, we had, say we had one guy originally shoot 21 hogs with the same broad head and he just finally retired it.
Wow. So, if you're as long as you don't lose them. And, you know, right, which is catch 22 for us because we not, we want to sell more, but, you know, if you don't lose something, they hold up a long time.
Right. And so, so it was just kind of word of mouth that started the company and how many, how many products, how many heads did you bring to market initially.
Well, initially, I guess they started out that 250 grain.
And then, from there, you know, a lot of a lot of compound shooters wanted a lighter weight.
And so we went down went down to 175 and 150 all the way down that one time we made 85 green.
Right.
Right. But our standard now is from 100 grain, all the way up to 300 green. Okay.
It was like say it was all word of mouth for quite a few years we didn't put any money into advertising or anything.
It was pretty much all word of mouth and, and then other companies seem, well, could you make us a broad head, you know, and then they, they had label up there, you know, for them and.
However, whatever they wanted to name them and anything else. So, they just grew it pretty much doubled from the first year every year.
Tonight.
Gotcha. Oh, so, so your guys, this company was not only making vantage point heads, but you guys were doing other work for other companies making their heads as well.
Yes, about after about three or four years. Other companies noticed our heads. Yeah. And it was wanting us to design some for them.
And, and so they can pretty much have the same product. So we as, we as the very first company to actually make a three blade machine to broad head.
Fully machined.
Yes. Okay. All right. And so.
There's a company there that made that made cast, brought his MIM technology, which is molded metal rejected.
But that's a totally different process is a little more porous and everything.
So using solid bar stock is a stronger product. Okay.
All right. Are you allowed to say what other brands that that you made for?
Some of the newest ones. I can't really say, but I mean, we've made, we've made some for custom gang free rivers, our tree.
We've made some for Rocky Mountain, especially gear.
We made there's some newer ones that we're making for other companies. Yeah.
So, and then we started, I mean, like I say, started word of mouth here locally. And, and now it's worldwide. Yeah. And we ship all over the world now. So, and this is, this is an American made product.
Yes. Okay. It's all made. Go in and me in. Nice. Awesome. Okay. So what was the initial reaction from the people who used them?
You know, you gave some away for free. This company started. And then, you know, you really almost have to wait a hunting season to get the feedback from the people.
What was the initial reaction from the public after, after the first release?
Well, basically, everybody that we gave them to have them try, they, you know, they, they really liked them and saying, you need to go public with this and start selling them commercially and everything.
And yeah, we thought about it. Cause everybody liked them and how durable they were. That was, that was the main things, how durable they were. Right.
And super easy to sharpen and how they spun through and everything right from, right from the get go. And, and so everything was word of mouth.
And for the, for several years there and they just kept growing and until we had to hire more people and, yeah, cause I was the only one pretty much making them.
And from the beginning for the first few years. Okay. I was at my plate full. Yeah. So, okay. Out of that initial response, then what were, what was the next step? I mean, was it just different styles? Was it different weights?
Because obviously now you guys have, you know, three blades, two blades, you have single bevels, you have double bevels, I believe, two, two, two, yeah, double bevels.
And so you have, you have a variety of lineups now in your lineup. What was the next thing that people were asking you to build?
Well, basically after the initial 250 grain, like say, the next step was to make different weights of basically the same design.
A lot of people don't understand, you got to match the grain weight without making the blades too thin. So if they want a three inch long broad head at 100 grains, it's basically impossible to do because if you make the blades that thin is not going to be durable anymore.
Right. Right. So you have to, it's a process where you have to design whatever weight you're looking for. You have to change the length and stuff like that, possibly the diameter.
So if everybody wants an inch and eighth, you got to pretty much play with the weight or with the length and the blade that makes a little bit and the feral length of like that to get it to the way right.
And still keep it durable. Okay. So it's not. So a lot of the numbers on that broad head change as you go up in grains. It's not like you're adding just more mass to a single blade. All the dimensions are changing.
Right. Okay. Pretty much all the dimensions are changing when you go from one weight to the next. Is that comp. Is that a complicated process or is all of that just done in the design room.
It's, it's a difference between design and actually machine and prototype and seeing, I mean, you can kind of guess what it's going away. Yeah. And get, get a fairly accurate volume measurement and everything from the broad head.
But the real test is when you actually go out there and machine it and see what it weighs and say, Okay, I'm going to have to make it like an eighth inch shorter to get the weight to where it needs to be and keep the blade that missing the diameter.
You know, the same stuff like that. So, okay, this process and the prototype between design and machining it.
Yeah, this is a, this is a random question. And I, maybe it's a dumb question, but what is the difference then between a broad head that is 125 grains in a broad head that is 200 grains, but they both have the same cutting diameter.
Well, that's where the length would come in and the length of the feral also. Okay. So you can adjust the length of the feral. So there's a lot of weight in the center of that broad head from the feral because it's all one piece is not hollowed out like some of them with inserts in them.
Okay, so you can adjust the length of that feral and we try to keep the diameter of the back of the feral.
2516 was pretty much a standard diameter for a lot of the shafts. Yeah. And so yet you just that length just the total length of the broad head itself how long the blades are.
So if you, if you want a 40,000 stick blade, you can't change that too much to adjust the weight and keep the length the same. So you got to adjust the length and the of the blade and the feral to get pretty much what you're looking for.
Okay. All right. And so you just started making different weights and dimensions of the same broad head. When did the the two blades come out? When did the next generation or the next skew of broad heads come out?
So after we made, I'd say, four or five different weights and the three blades. People were asking to make a tube blade. So, so I started experimenting and designing a tube blade and, and start out with a double bubble and trying to keep the blade thickness where it needs to be to be strong and, and pyramid the tip
basically a tanto tip had to figure out ways to hold on to them. And pretty much the same process as a three blade. But it's just pretty much what people were asking for.
Yeah. In different weights, diameters and styles. So, gosh, we made the tube blade for a few years and then then the latest thing was the single bubbles that people weren't wanting. And then, of course, with the single
bubble, you got a right bevel on a left bevel. So whatever you make with the double bevel, you know, it, you don't have to make two different styles of that. It's just double bevel for, yeah, you know, a standard tube blade. Yeah. So with the level, you had to make a, you know, pretty much the most popular would be the right bevel.
But it's all going to depend on what type of flutch you use and whether it's a right offset or left offset or helical or whatever. So you got to have the bevel match and which way your arrows spin.
Yeah. Otherwise, it's going to counteract what you're doing. Okay. With the wrong, if you use the wrong bevel. Right. So just for example there, if you're shooting a right bevel, a tube blade right bevel, what way does your flutching, what way do your flutchings need to be.
So on a right bevel, it's going to when the broad head impacts, it's going to twist to the right be it clockwise motion. So you want the same motion coming off your bow. So you want either right offset or right helical flutching to spin the same way as your broad head is going to impact.
Okay. Gotcha. Makes sense. All right. And so the next question I have here is how many people are asking you to build these things. It must have been a lot because if some dude, just one guy's like, Hey man, I think you should make this broad head.
I don't see a company bending over backwards for a single person so it must have been several people asking for the same thing.
Right. Okay. It's kind of, yeah, it used to be, you know, when people didn't don't understand what it takes to actually design and come up with a broad head that's actually going to work and weigh and everything to come out right.
But so you have several people asking for the same thing and you say, Okay, so it's probably about time to see if we can design something to satisfy these people. Right.
So, okay. All right. So.
I got to ask this question on on some of your broad heads they're solid. Right. There's no, I don't know what the term is but there's no holes in the blade itself. Yeah.
Yeah. Yep. Vented and non vetted. What is the difference between vented and non vented blades and is there any type of performance difference between the two.
Well, personally, I like the non vented, but that's another one of the issues when you're trying to make a longer broad head and get the weight correct.
There's no other option except to either vent the broad head or pocket it or or something. Take some of that material out the material has got to come out of somewhere in order to get the weight down. Gotcha.
So that's basically the same process.
I mean, it's pretty much to get the blade length where you want it and get it to weight correctly.
You got to cut windows in the in the blades and there's a little there can be a little bit of advantage on windy days with a vented broad head.
If you got a side wind is blowing hard, but for most purposes, it doesn't make much difference and how they fly.
Yeah.
But a non vented broad heads going to be a little stronger because you're not cutting any holes in the blades. Right.
And plus a non vented broad heads going to be a little quieter. That was my next question. Yeah.
Because there's no air moving through the vents. Yeah. Do you guys do any noise testing?
Yeah, we've had several people test, you know, for the noise and stuff and you get all kinds of remarks and a lot of it has to do with how they're both set up and how they're arrows tuned.
Yeah. And what people are hearing some people say, well, I get a whistle and other people say, I can't hear anything. Yeah.
And you can for all practical purposes, it's it's sound. I mean, you're flutching is going to make about the same amount of noise as the broad head itself.
Okay. Oh, a vented broad head isn't loud, but you can you can hear possible air noise passing it. Okay.
It doesn't actually whistle or anything. Yeah. Unless you're setups, incorrect. Okay.
Because in the past, man, I've shot some broad heads that were dead silent with the same arrow setup and then I've shot some broad heads in the past that I could definitely hear them leave my bow all the way to a 50 yard shot just
for some for some reason I could not get behind that broad head. I'm like a deer is here if I can hear it, a deer is definitely hearing it and they're dropping out of sight they're already gone at 50 yards with my arrow.
Yeah. And so I just couldn't get behind them. That's where we had some broad heads of their vents can be louder than other events. So we had to design an experiment and see what was going to be the quietest and the strongest to make the blade structurally strong.
And so it's kind of a compromise between the two was the quietest and strongest that we can make. So, okay. So, it's almost like an equation if you try to make it quiet, potentially, especially with a venom ones if you try to make it too quiet, you may lose some durability or some strength in it.
And if you, if you add too much strength into it, and, you know, base base the vents off the strength, then it could potentially be too loud.
Correct. Okay. Basically, the if you can make the vents as big as possible and still have structural integrity, those are going to be pretty much the quietest.
So we have real small events and make it so you have all these ribs in there to help the structure of the blade retain structure.
They can be a little louder, the smaller they are so kind of a compromise between the two. Gotcha. Is there such thing as a perfect broad head from a from a design standpoint.
Well, there's a, there's a three to one ratio that is all going to depend on your setup and everything.
A lot of people say, well, you got to have a three to one ratio to get the best penetrations that you can have. What's the three to one ratio explain that.
The three to one ratio would be whatever diameter, let's say you're using a one inch broad head cutting diameter, the three to one ratio would be three inches long to the one inch diameter. Okay.
So there's, there's a line you got to draw.
Like say it's going to have to deal with the weight and the length and the structure on tagger to you. The main thing that you need to have in a broad head structure integrity. If that goes, if it breaks, you're done. So, yeah, you're not going to get any penetration.
If you brought it breaks when it hits a rib or something. Right. So, anywhere from basically one and a half to two to up to whatever you want, basically to three inches.
You're going to, as long as it's a structurally integral, you're going to mostly get passed through. Gotcha. Gotcha.
All right. I didn't know if like, you know, because when it in in bows in bow manufacturing, you look at the specs, right? And it's this draw at this way equals, you know, this IBO speed, or this draw at this way in this, you know, what axle to axle or whatever, whatever the case, maybe you're the brace height equals this outcome.
And I didn't know if there was a standard or a, I guess, I guess it would just be a standard and broad head design, especially for fixed blades that say, if you go outside of these specs, then your broad head just won't be good.
There's really not any standards that I know of as far as what will work and what won't work. It's basically, you know, there's formulas that you can pull up on the Internet that will calculate kinetic energy and momentum.
Yeah. And so a lot of people look at the kinetic energy and don't pay a whole lot of attention to the momentum. In archery, it's more important to look at the momentum because when you're looking at kinetic energy,
it has more to deal with a high velocity, high power rifle in the impact that it creates, and that's your kinetic energy, where momentum is like the heavier the object is, the more it takes to stop it.
We are not looking at expelling all the energy into a deer or animal with an arrow. You're looking to get a pass through with it. So you want the momentum to carry your arrow all the way through and make two holes.
So that's where a lot of people look at the kinetic energy instead of momentum.
So if you go, if you plug in the formula and use plug in the numbers in that formula, you'll notice that the heavier the arrow, the more momentum you get into a certain point, the kinetic energy will stop in your momentum will keep climbing to a certain point.
So, okay, so explain this to me as a baby, because I maybe it's over my head. What is the difference between kinetic energy and momentum?
So, like I said, the kinetic energy has to do with the energy that is coming off your bow or rifle or whatever you're shooting. So if it's traveling at, say, 250 feet per second and your arrow, total arrow weight is, say, 400 grains,
you're going to impact the target or animal at a specific kinetic energy in a specific momentum. Okay. So, so like I'm saying, so if you went with a lighter broad head and raise, it would raise your feet per second up, say 350 feet per second,
you're going to have higher velocity, but your arrow is going to be weighing, say, 250 grains, and it's more apt to bounce off a rib or anything, even though it's going faster.
Now you put a heavier tip on there, heavier broad head, say, 150, 200 grain broad head and your arrow weighs 500 grains or 600 grains, it's going to be going slower, but when it impacts, it has more momentum.
More momentum going through it and you're more apt to go all the way through the animal. Okay. So from an archery standpoint or a bow hunting standpoint, momentum is really the king. That's what you're looking for.
Yes, and I know a lot of people, they want the fastest bow, the fastest arrow, and they don't understand what bow hunting is a close range sport.
So, you're trying to get closer to the animal and the closer to the better. So, even with the fastest bows, if you're shooting a deer out there, 50, 60 yards, it has a lot of chance to duck the arrow or, or move from the spot that you actually was aiming for.
And here, if you might get there faster with a lighter arrow, but it has a greater chance to just wound in it instead of getting the passer fail.
So when you guys design, you're looking at the momentum, the momentum of the broad head or whatever, you're designing that with that in mind. Right.
Okay. The number one thing and designed we're looking for is durability. Gotcha. And once you have that, you have, you know, your broad head is not going to break.
So then you can, then the second thing you need to look for is being able to sharpen it and then keeping it sharp. Right. And you need a sharp broad head to do his job because that's what it does.
That's a hole. So, yeah, if you're not, if you have a dull broad head, you know, you're not cutting the veins and arteries like you need to, you're just pushing them out of the way. So, right. Right.
So, I had a, one of my, one of my friends works for wasp archery. And he was, he, he said he's an engineer there and he's like, I wish I didn't have to make 100 grain broad heads, because I just don't feel there as durable.
I feel they're, they're strong. I wish I could, you know, build 125s and up, but people ask for smaller, you know, these, these 100 grain broad heads all the time. What, when I look at your broad heads and I see 300 grains, who's shooting that is that more of a traditional archer or is that more, is that a compound guy as well with like a carbon shaft.
Well, if you notice, people are, are starting to learn more about heavy F O's the front of center. Yeah. And they learn that the one with the heavier broad head.
The arrows fly better. They get better penetration. Yep. And it makes the bow quieter. It's on the bow. There's all kinds of advantages doing it.
The only disadvantage of going with a heavier arrow is you got more drop at a certain distance. But at bow hunting ranges, there's not enough difference to worry about. So if you're shooting 20 to 30 yards and you jump up to 150 grain broad head over 125 or 100 grain, you're not going to notice that much drop.
And as you know, if you got a site, you're both cited in for that particular broad head. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't make much difference anyway. So, right.
People are just learning learning now that going with heavier has all kinds of advantages.
Okay. And so, and that's the trend right F O C or whatever they call it, you know, that's the, that's the big trend now everybody seems to be jumping on board and I'll, I'll agree with you man.
Once I went to, it only took me the biggest year of my life to learn the lesson. I never recovered him. But I shot, I hit him high. He survived. He was killed the next year, but I was shooting a fairly light arrow back then with a big.
Well, with a, I'm just going to say an untested at the time, a broad head, and it did not do what I, what I wanted it to and that right there made me go. All right, I need to move everything up.
And not necessarily the weight of my broad head, but the weight of my arrow is exact like is what I want. So, and so I jumped everything up. I was, I think I was shooting sub 400, like in the 320s now I'm shooting like a 524 inch total arrow away arrow.
And it, if it's at 30 yards and I hit it, right, it's going through the, you know, it's going through the animal. So, right. Yeah.
Let's say there's all kinds of advantages going heavier and very few disadvantages.
Yeah. And so you're saying that these, these arrows are for the compound guy and for the, the, the traditional guy as well.
Yes. Okay. The compound guys are, are, I say learning that going heavier helps them just as much as a traditional guy that already mostly started with heavier stuff.
And, you know, to begin with, yeah, they, you know, a traditional bow.
You're anywhere from 150 to just over 200 feet per second in most instances. So, you're only, let's say average 170 180 feet per second, but you're shooting a 600 grain arrow and you get, you have that momentum.
Yeah. It'll go right through a deer like butter. So, yeah. Yeah. And there's nothing better than watching something like that go down, man. I just love watching arrows go through deer.
I, that may make me sound like a monster, but it's just like as a bow hunter, there's nothing sweeter watching an arrow just go right through it.
Yeah, disappear. Yep. So, what's, you guys, are you guys strictly just a broadhead company? I mean, I see you guys make some small game heads and you make some turkey heads.
But, are there, are you guys going to take this any other directions, or is this just a broadhead company?
Well, we're expanding to go more directions like we have a, an ILF riser that we make, we've been making that for several years now and it's real popular.
An ILF riser, a 13 inch riser that uses ILF limbs, international limb fitting. So, you can change your limbs out, different weights and long bow, recurve, different grips, low, medium, high.
And that's, that's a real popular option that we've been making for several years.
So, you guys are just manufacturing the riser. If I was like, okay, well, when I use this riser, what, how do I get limbs? Where do I go to get limbs for this riser?
So, there's several companies that make ILF limbs. Some of the, some of the best limbs are made in Korea, because that's, they're big into archery and, and traditional archery and stuff.
So, a lot of your limbs, your high end ones will come from Korea. And there, there are several limb manufacturers, smaller companies in the states that actually make ILF limbs.
And so, you can, like, you can go from the three rivers, archery, a lot of places, Lancaster, archery and, and they have ILF limbs and you can, you know, select your weight and, and your length and recurve long bow.
So, there's a lot of options you can go with.
Okay. And, and is this more for target or is this for anybody?
It, it's for anybody. It's hunting target. And the nice thing about ILF is you can adjust the weight up or down, like three or four pounds.
Yeah.
And you can use different length limbs. Let's say if you're hunting in a blind, you can use short limbs.
And, and I have to worry about hitting the, the top of the blind or anything. And, and if you want to just target practice, you can use lightweight limbs.
And, without having to buy another bow itself, you can just, you can just, you can just, you can just, you know, kind of have all kinds of options.
Okay. All right. Well, I'll tell you what, man, I, after listening to this, you know, this podcast, it sounds like you guys got some, some pretty cool designs over there at, at the vantage point.
Some pretty cool heads. If there's someone listening and they're on the fence about, you know, or they're looking for a new broad head or they're on the fence about, you know, buying a, a new set of heads, why should they lean towards vantage point?
Well, pretty much if they want a broad head that's going to fly through and be extremely durable, easy to sharpen and be able to invest that initial amount of money and be able to use it over and over and realize that they're really getting their money is worth.
But when you use them multiple times. And so, I mean, like I say, the biggest thing is looking for is durability, structural integrity. So, once you have that, you know, it's going to hold up through your animal, and you're not going to lose your animals as long as you hit it in the boiler room.
Okay. All right. Well, I tell you what, Jeff, man, I really appreciate you taking time out of your day today to hop on and educate us on vantage point. If people want to find out more information about the company, where should we send them?
You can just either search for vantage point archery, to Google or whatever search engine you want, and we're located right here in Fort Wayne, Indiana. And we have a pretty good size presence on the Internet.
Yeah. So, if you do any kind of search for vantage point archery, you should pop up. All right. And I believe that's vpartury.com is the website. So, if you like what you heard today, go check it out. Jeff, man, I appreciate your time.
Hey, thanks for having me on. Absolutely.
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I'm going to go ahead and get started.