Hey everyone, it's Vanessa. I'm going to share a special long episode with you today from another
podcast. It's called Making from WBEZ and it's about Kanye West, one of the most controversial
figures in pop culture history. This podcast delves deep into Kanye's life with no stone unturned.
And on the episode you're about to hear, host Brendan Pope learns about Kanye's rise from
uncredited producer to headlining star. We hope you enjoy this podcast and afterwards,
if you want to hear how Kanye's life all falls apart, search for Making from WBEZ to hear the
second part of the story. Hey, what's up guys? I want to have a chat with you before we get into it.
What we try to do here on Making is deliver you the story of an icon's rise to fame for all their
good and bad. But this figure is particularly tricky. Kanye West, or yay, as he goes by now,
means so many different things to different people. To some, he's a hip-hop hero. To others,
he's a divisive symbol of hate. To a lot, he's both. About a year ago, we decided to produce a show
on yay. Then just a few months later, his extremism turned into violent hate speech.
And we shelved it. We went back and forth on whether to put it out there. On one hand,
we don't want to give a platform to yay's hate. And on the other hand, the more we researched,
the more his story became about a lot of deeper destructive parts of our culture.
And for what it's worth, I think those are parts that we need to talk about. So if anything,
hopefully these two episodes can do that. Hopefully they can provide guide rails to digest yay
and learn from his downfall. Well, anyway, that's a peek behind the curtain. So here it is,
the making and unmaking of yay, the artist formerly known as Kanye West. Roll the tape.
Talent that hasn't been seen in hip-hop ever before. No figuring all of music history as controversial.
And I can't listen to him anymore. One of the greatest artists of our age.
I am the number one most impactful artist of our generation.
From WBEZ Chicago, this is Making. I'm Brandon Poe.
Today, it's Making Kanye. Mr. West has won 24 Grammys. He's been named one of the greatest
songwriters of all time by Rolling Stone. But for every ounce of talent comes an ounce of wreckage.
Gautila, I'm really happy for you. I'm let you finish. You're about slavery for 400 years.
For 400 years, that's not like a choice. What Kanye's doing has been incredible.
The rap star is lashing out, tweeting, I'm a bit sleepy tonight, but when I wake up,
I am going Death Con 3 on Jewish people.
So how do you become one of the most notorious figures in pop culture history?
How do you build a mountain and then tear it down? What in the world do we do about Kanye
or Marie West? When someone comes up and says something like, I am a god, everybody says,
who does he think he is? I just told you who I saw and I was. A god.
You have a favorite Kanye song or album? Oh, shit. Yeah.
Kanye West gets people talking, so I walked around Chicago with my producer to get some ticks.
College dropout is my favorite album.
Late registration is one of the best. I say hip hop albums of all time.
And I'm trying to make sure I said an A right. We'll say my dark twisted fantasy.
Oh yeah, yeah. College dropout.
I feel like the college dropout is probably the superior of all that, even though my dark
cultural fantasy. Yeah, I can't think of the day.
Workout playing right off back. It would happen to college dropout. For me, I don't tag
any love that. So let me make a correction. It's my beautiful dark twisted fantasy. I had to look
that up. That's my favorite album. His past couple albums have been terrible. Trash. They've
been bad and it started for me. For me, it started with that Yeezus. I don't feel like Kanye like
that anymore, but I do love his earlier stuff. I guess I'm gonna be that person. I think
she's someone who you can be a fan of the music, but then everything else is, doesn't leave a good
feeling in your stomach, that's for sure. It did really like a lot of his music. So if I hear it,
I'm just like, that's a bummer. I used to love that song. Now it makes me upset.
Has your relationship to come in there? What's changed after all the controversies?
Absolutely. I can't listen to it. I can't listen to his music no more.
In this city, his music has a grip on people's minds. It's like they have this inescapable
kinship with the artists, no matter how confusing or toxic that kinship is. And to me, it makes
sense. I mean, his story started right here. In kindergarten, Kanye wrote poetry. In third grade,
he started rapping. And then at 13, his mom, Don DeWest, paid $25 for studio time.
Don DeWest passed on a sample to a work friend and the friend gave it to her son.
She comes on like, hey, I have a friend. Can you help her son? I'm like, so crazy.
That son was a legendary music producer, No ID, who at the time made beats for common.
Here's No ID in an interview on New York City's Hot 97.
He's making like beats on his little computer and I really know what the sampling is about or
whatever. So I just was just sent him on missions. Like, look man, it's just how your sample go.
Go do that and come back. And he just kept coming back.
And around age 15, after much persistence, No ID became Kanye's mentor. Kanye started doing
open mites and landed his first production credits.
We wanted to know what Kanye West was like at this age. So we got a few people together,
who could tell us. Fun fact, that pool table and genius also operated as my being.
That's JB Marshall, Yeh's first manager and A&R executive. He joined us with Cootie Simmons,
Yeh's childhood friend and creator of the Netflix documentary Genius. And Andrew Barber,
founder of the legendary Chicago hip hop blog, Fake Shore Drive. JB talks about the first time
he met Kanye. And we pull into this like sad parking lot, get out, go to the door. And he opens
the door like, yo, one in Kanye. And this big smile, he had braces. The first thing I observed
walking into his house was about a four foot, maybe four and a half foot high stack of GQ magazines.
You know, he was talking about being the best dressed rapper then. It really stuck out to me,
like, okay, yeah, this guy is maybe a little, a little different, but also he's driven. Kanye was
just more, gonna make it happen. He wasn't gonna not make it. How you know what I mean? This is
Cootie Simmons. He was, you know, extra because he was one of them people that I knew was gonna
win Grammys. You know what I'm saying? And stand out, you know, but they say, uh, JB, what's your,
what's your, uh, past the name? Uh, past the birth. Well, he said, you can't let your imagination
get in the way of God's manifestation. So when I saw then it was way greater.
So, Cootie, Cootie, point out just interject. He wanted to be totally reflective and indicative of
his name's meaning the one. He wanted to be the one. Like, that was his drive. The only one. Yeah,
though. He's back. Then in his early twenties, young Kanye dropped his first studio album.
Nah, it was not the college dropout. It was world record holders with a group called The Go Getters.
Here's Chicago hip-hop journalist Andrew Barber. You know, that wasn't, it wasn't like a nationally
release project. It was more of a local thing. I don't think it really got much outside of Chicago.
So a lot of those beats at that time were kind of in the vein of the Bad Boy Hitman or the stuff
that Jermaine Dupree was doing. It sounded a lot like that, like a lot more jiggy sounding beats.
And I think he really came to his own in the next couple of years. Kanye West used to come to
parties that I did. This is Mustafa Rux, the DJ who did Kanye's first mixtape with Through the
Wire. During this time, how were people responding to Kanye West? They was it. They wasn't responding
to him at all. They, he was just another guy at the party and he was a producer but didn't nobody
really know him. But we were promoting him. John John. John John is John Monopoly, who back then
was a promoter and manager. He managed Kanye along with many other Chicago stars. John John used to
always have posters, t-shirts, everything to promote. This before cell phones and, you know,
Instagram and all that. So we had to put posters on the polls on the street when we had to go on the
West Side, South Side, but it go get us just to get the word out just to get the word out. Nobody
knew who Kanye was. I was really kicking it. We was having a good time. We didn't know what he was
doing. We was just like doing what we love to do. I was a DJ. He was a producer.
John John So what was Kanye like as a producer back then?
John John Oh, he was very dedicated. I must say now thinking back at it, I remember going over his
house one day and he had a full beard. He had an afro. He hadn't had a haircut in months. And he
said he was not cutting his hair until he got a deal. And he sat in the house and just made beats
all day long.
After years of making beats, passing out CDs and putting up posters, No ID made an introduction
that changed Kanye's life. He met with Keonbo, Hip Hop Joshua and Shalik Berry of Rockefeller
Records. And hopefully he got a haircut before. We really don't know. Kanye played Berry this track.
It was Hey, Mama later included on late registration and Berry was sold. Kanye made the
leap to New York City. And by 2000, he was signed to Rockefeller Records as a producer.
Once he moved to New York, it was over with. You got to remember in Chicago, they only feel like
you made it when other people talk about you. You feel me? Like when you become a celebrity
and you all on TV and you got other celebrities talking about you, then Chicago's like, Oh, he's
a celebrity. But Kanye been a celebrity in his mind. You know what I mean? He's always been a
celebrity. He always said what we call a main character and exactly.
In New York City, Kanye hit Rockefeller running. He composed five out of 15 songs for Jay Z's
seminal album, The Blueprint, which is now preserved in the Library of Congress. Here's Andrew
Barber again. You know, the blueprint, that really cemented him around that time. And that's when
he kind of came into his own sound where it really changed the sound of music. But he was just kind
of warming up and getting ready. I think he was just trying to more fit in to get in the game.
And then once he got a foot in the door, he was able to kind of be himself.
People really do have to remember. It's not just that he wore the polas. Like,
Kanye was signed to Rockefeller Records, right? And that was a label of hood dudes.
You know what I mean? He was like,
camera on the crack. This is Justin Charity, a cultural critic at The Ringer. And he breaks
down for us what this Rockefeller move even means. Kanye West plants the seed for a critical part
of his brand that he sticks to pretty much forever. His contrarianism. From the jump,
he's countering the culture. If you look at the Rockefeller offices, it's like,
P.D. crack is walking around, right? But then it's, it's Kanye, Kanye walking around with his polos
and his backpack and just, you know, the stick and elk of sore thumb.
So earth thumb, like he is representing this weird, at the time, genuinely captivating abnormal
sort of middle class incursion into Rockefeller Records, right? You know, the people who embrace
Kanye as a countercultural figure, they're not wrong, right? And it's totally always been a huge
part of his appeal. Is that is his willingness to zag when other people are zigging?
And a young, driven, different Kanye wanted more. He wanted to be a rapper who produces,
not a producer who raps. Here's Kanye on MTV's You Hear It First in 2002.
Everybody look at and say, yo, man, he crazy, man. He trying to rap, man. What's wrong? He's
stupid trying to rap. You know, people just told me I was stupid for trying to rap.
I was in those meetings that he was basically getting laughed out of publishing meetings.
This is JB Marshall again. Honestly, Brandon, I was angry for him a lot of time. I'm thinking
of those emotions now that I felt, um, and, and these guys talking, talking about him like he
not there, not in the bad way, but in a dismissive way. And it's like, yo, you got beats. Yo, you got
beats. Uh, and he like, yo, yeah, you know, I want to play some music and then they just,
so, yo, we going down to the, well, they go down like ignoring them. It was like, yo, so it was,
it was, he's built different. I have to give him that. Like, because to take all of that,
that was mental anguish, like no other. I think even the rejection was another level when he
finally got his shot on a Jay Z album on, um, the blueprint to, and they didn't even list him as a
feature. Andrew Blarber, everybody else was listed as a feature, but they didn't even put
featuring Kanye West on there. He just had like eight bars at the end of, uh, the song that had to,
that had to have heard at the time, right? I remember I was snapping and the time we was in the car,
like, bro, how they didn't put you on the, bro, how, how Jay, them do this, do that. He's like,
uh, why would I look at it that way? I'm on Jay Z album.
Lucky for this young talent, Jay Z planned to retire and the pressure was on for Rockefeller
co-founder Dame Dash to find the next great artist. After some reluctance, he signed 25-year-old
Kanye West as a rapper. Here's Dame Dash on the podcast, All the Smoke.
I didn't see that one coming, I thought he could make good beats and I didn't see him as a rapper,
I really still don't. I think he's the best producer that could rap.
But as quickly as victory came, so did near tragedy. In October of 2002,
Kanye West had a near fatal car crash. His jaw was wired shut. The accident became a turning
point for his rap career. I looked at this accident as God saying, I'm about to hand you the world.
Just knowing any given time, I can take it away from you.
He came out with a track that solidified his talent to the world.
He released through the wire on a 36-track mixtape called Get Well Soon, just two months after the
accident. DJ Mustafa Rux mixed the project. After he had the crash and he broke his jaw,
done in John Monopoly. They was managing him at the time. He told Don, I want to turn this negative
into something positive. Call Mustafa, have him do the mix or whatever. Here's the thing. He said,
I want you to mix it, how I want you to mix it, not the way you want to mix it. Then he said,
don't add any sound effects. He said, don't put them. You know how they, the DJ,
he like, don't put none of that. It just had to be straight music. So they was like, well,
how much you want to do it? And I was like, I don't want nothing. Just put me in the credits.
I remember, I used to live by the shop called Tony Sports of North,
recipes to Tony. Andrew Barber again. I used to go in there and get mix tapes a lot. So
to get well soon, I'm good mix tapes were in there and they'll be on the counter or whatever on
the rack. And there would be a lot of them there. Like they weren't like flying off the shelves at
the time. You could walk in off the street and get one. And I wouldn't say they were the hottest
mix tapes at the time. The first time I saw through the wire on rap city, for whatever reason, the video,
the feeling that it gave you when you saw it, it was like, it was heartfelt. It was so different
than everything else at the time. Everything was just the perfect song and video for that moment.
And you're like, how is Rockefeller not understanding that this guy while he's different than everybody
else? Like there is a huge open lane for what he's doing. And one, that video hit rap city.
I went into Tony Sports like a week or two later. Those mix tapes were gone. You couldn't find those
mix tapes anymore. Then everybody knows about Kanye after that. Steve Jobs always say that
it's not about the product, it's about the story. Kootie Simmons made Kanye's Through the Wire music
video. You know what I'm saying? The story sales, not the product. So when we did Through the Wire,
that it was the story that we put out about this kid who believed so much in himself that he was
going to make it happen, you know, no matter what. And in February 2004, this budding star dropped
his debut masterpiece, The College Dropout. Oh yeah, I got the perfect song for the kids to sing.
And all my people that's drug killing just to get by. So hot right now. Give it up for Kanye West.
Well, ever since the album came out, my life has changed a lot. So the college dropout sold nearly
half a million copies in the first week and debuted at number two on the US Billboard 200.
He rode the wave all the way to the 2004 Grammys where he received 10 nominations and three wins,
debuting on stage with Jesus What? And the Grammy goes to The College Dropout, Kanye West.
Everybody asked me the question. They wanted to know, what kind of news is going to happen.
They're going to do something crazy. Everybody wanted to know what I would do if I didn't win.
I guess we'll never know.
Keep in mind, right? Like I'm a kid when Jesus walks, comes out, right? Like I'm in high school,
but I'm a pateat kid. Here's Justin Charity from The Ringer. I'm also going through some stuff
with God at the time. It's like a lot going on in my life. You're trying to figure out religion.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm going through some stuff on my end too, right? Kanye makes his song, Jesus
walks, right? Second hit after Through the Wire. I mean, think about the concept of Jesus walks,
right? It's him making a song about how he's not allowed to make a song, you know, about he's like,
they won't let you rap about Jesus. Meanwhile, you hear this song every 20 minutes on FM radio for
a half a year. And it helps turn him into a millionaire, right? Look, this song is cool,
but the posture he's adopting on this song is ridiculous, right? It's it is the classic like,
they won't let me say the thing that I am on every radio station in the country saying. And to me,
that's Kanye. I think that's always been the strange thing about Kanye. It feels kind of like
his impulse to be a provocateur feels like it predates any of the actual convictions that get
associated with his provocations. If that makes sense, right? It feels like he improvises the
actual convictions on the fly after the fact. And that the only sort of fundamental thing in him
is the desire to sort of get a rise out of people, right? Or to get get the people going,
right? Get people talking about stuff? Because it doesn't really feel to me throughout his career.
Like he came to rap with a set of convictions, right? It's it feels like he came to rap with a
sense of provocation. And then just over the years kind of collected convictions that people
handed to him or opportunities that he identified in his eyes. I remember the first time I heard
about Kanye West, and I was so excited. And I had just seen the cover of College Dropout.
And I didn't know how to pronounce his name. And I remember, I'll never forget this. I ran to
hang out with some friends. And I was like, Do y'all know about can I West? And everybody busted out
laughing. I was so embarrassed. All my friends were like, you mean Kanye?
This is Jay Wurtham, they're a culture writer for the New York Times magazine,
and a co-host of The Times podcast, still processing.
But yeah, you know, I think a lot about that album College Dropout and just it sounded incredible.
The idea of being a College Dropout was so radical to me as someone who has always been
socialized and coached and sort of molded to be a very aspirational black, you know, go to college,
you do better than what came before you, you know, you lift others up, just this kind of forward
momentum. The Hillman College generation. Exactly, right? We were indoctrinated. And here comes this
man talking about, I'm a College Dropout. I promise she's so self-conscious. She has no idea
what she's doing in college. This is young Kanye West spoken word poem titled Self-conscious.
You may recognize it from the debut album. That made it that she made it and don't make no money.
Told me she made it on TV, but she won't drop out her parents to look at her funny. But you know,
for me, it wasn't just this idea of dropping out of school. It was dropping out of a way of thinking,
dropping out of a way of ascribing towards whiteness and upward mobility as
expansive futurity, you know, like it had so much potential. Just that seat of that idea in the
beginning. Now, tell me that ain't insecure. The concept of school seems so secure. Soft
more three yards and pick the career. After the break, the rise of Kanye West, the Provaca tool.
About a year after Kanye West hits national recognition, the country is hit by one of the
deadliest storms in history. A monster category three storm and possibly taking aim at southeast
Louisiana. Hurricane Katrina continues to move west. The people of our city are holding on by a
threat. Time has run out. The mayor says, can we survive another night? Who can we depend on?
Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans in August of 2005. It killed an estimated 1,800 people. Millions
were displaced. And I've come down here one to take a look at the damage firsthand. And I'm telling
you it's just worse than imaginable. Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here.
Again, let's do something and let's fix the biggest crisis in the history of this country.
All eyes were on New Orleans, but especially all eyes were taking in the devastation in Louisiana's
black community. With the breach of three levies protecting New Orleans. And during this time,
NBC decides to organize a celebrity benefit concert for the American Red Cross airing across
all major networks. Comedian and actor Mike Myers was paired up with Kanye.
I hate the way they portray us in the media. If you see a black family, it says they're looting.
See a white family, it says they're looking for food. At this moment, Kanye West decided to go off
script. And so he said, George Bush doesn't care about black people.
Please call. In the past few days, America and people has been stepping up, have been stepping up
to donate money, to do all they can to help people in New Orleans and all. Kanye West,
the provocateur is born. There was this sense of Kanye as a, you know, cultural renegade,
someone who was a disruptor, who's willing to go off script in the sake of saying something that
no one else wants to say. And it was really energizing. At least that Katrina moment. I mean,
it was, you know, I saw that live. Jay Wirtham from the New York Times.
I felt like, I mean, I get emotional thinking about it because he was just willing to
say the thing that was so apparent. And it's not even just George W. Bush doesn't care about
black people. It's just like America, the world, just to see that much like organized abandonment
and neglect and the celebrities being asked to go on TV to prop up federal aid. That's not doing
shit. And Kanye is just like, no, here's what I see. Now, this moment 18 years ago was the first
time the public got a glimpse of the Kanye West we know today. And mind you, it was different back
then. He's advocating for an underclass, but he's wildly off script for the first time in a long
career of being wildly off script. You have to remember, Kanye was at a totally different phase
in his career. And frankly, you go back and watch the footage of that telethon, right? And you
remember also just like what the political vibe was around the time of Hurricane Katrina.
If you go back and look in the in the eyes of Mike Myers, Kanye West and Chris Tucker,
even if Kanye is a provocateur, like in that moment, yeah, I still believe Kanye was distressed.
Kanye was mad. And I don't think Kanye went into that with like, oh, I'm going to go in. I'm
going to say this provocative thing. Like Kanye was still at a point in his career where he was
Kanye West, but he was still a version of Kanye West that if he crossed lines, like he could have
just been wiped off the face of the earth for real, right? Absolutely. Like he was still in a
precarious position of in his career. He wasn't untouchable. He risked something with that statement.
Yeah, like Kanye actually did go out on a limb in that moment. And I do buy the idea that he
on live television really was just kind of wrestling with like a frustration.
Like he did feel like this very raw conduit for the raw nerve that a lot of people had open,
right? During Katrina. So I remember this time, at this point, I was a, I was a Kanye, I guess
you could say Kanye Stan. And almost like the way we view LeBron James, great on the court,
but impactful off the court. This moment, I feel like for Kanye West was where people who were
fans of him and they were looking for more reasons to be fans and more reasons to see him as bigger
than just the music itself. This was that moment because it aligned politically with the frustrations
a lot of people had with the Bush administration and how they handle Katrina. What do you think
about that? Did he become more of this kind of activist figure in that moment?
I definitely, yeah, I definitely believe that because even me, right, is I think back to how I
thought about Kanye in college after I just remember watching that that telethon in real time,
right? And yeah, I kind of did feel this sense even after being frustrated by some bits of dropout
and late registration, feeling the sense of man, respect, you know what I mean? Like respect. And
I think you're totally right. I think you're totally right. People already want music
to make them feel something real. They don't want music to just be music, right? And Kanye
elevated it beyond even just sort of the base magical power of music to make it feel like,
yeah, Kanye West is this guy who stands for something, right? Oh boy, when he did the thing on the
telethon and he said George Bush don't like black people, I said, oh boy, here we go. Here we go.
That's Mustafa rocks again. I said Kanye is about to stir the pot. I don't know why he did this.
I mean, it's true, but you know, for him to do that, I was like, Kanye is on another level. He's like
Kanye the Black Panther now, you know what I mean? I think that's when he finally got that like,
if I do some wild stuff, everybody will be talking about it, you know what I mean?
Because my mom always called me like, why is Kanye doing that? Why? I said, my don't pay attention
to Kanye. I said, because he'll do something and everybody be talking about him and then he'll drop
a album. And you know, for what it's worth, like what Justin Charity said, Kanye hasn't exactly
reached icon status at this point, right? He's top charts and won Grammys, but he's not playing
at stadiums. He's doing theaters and college campuses.
At this point, the ball is rolling, but it has ways to go. And Kanye West once again wants to climb
higher. He goes on tour with you too and becomes fixated on reaching what he called
stadium status. His next album would be the last installment to his education trilogy,
but it needed a new sound and look. Less chipmunk soul, more anthems.
He's listening to the killers, modest mouse and keen for inspiration, and he's diving deep into
electronica. Although when producer A-TREC sent him a daff punk sample, he'd never even heard of the duo.
By the time the album was set, rap giant 50 Cent announced a coinciding release date.
They went head to head and the competition led to massive publicity.
It's just real good for hip hop. I think we're really pushing each other.
If 50 wasn't dropping that day, I wouldn't have went so hard on my album. If I wasn't
dropping, he wouldn't have went so hard. 50 Cent has been quoted as saying that if your album
should outsell his, he will never make another album ever again. Have you heard him?
I really liked 50. I don't want him to retire once my album sales the most. I just want him to...
Kanye won out. Graduation sold nearly a million copies in the first week. 50 Cents only sold
690,000. And the feud was a pivotal moment for hip hop because it pitted more traditional
gangster rap against Kanye's more futuristic bars. I think that's to me the defining moment
when he goes from like, you know, I am the biggest rapper. We're one of the biggest rappers in the
world too. I am now a pop star. I am one of the most famous artists in the world. I have transcended
you know, whatever box you can put me in. This is fake short drives Andrew Barber again.
I think he went for a bigger sound. You know, he had been traveling the world. He got a glimpse into
see, you know, how these maybe EDM groups or dance music groups are doing these huge festivals
overseas. So he's going around the world seeing this stuff and he's kind of like, okay, how can I
cooperate this into my music? And he went from the more so sample type of stuff to, okay, this is a
sound that will transcend and go all over the world. And you know, as one of those things,
I never thought 50 cent was even going to come close. I'm like, there's no way he's going to touch
Kanye. This is Kanye's absolute moment. He just had everything together at that point. He had this
image down. He had the music down. And it just it went to the next level. And obviously he's never
never slowed down since man, that 50 cent battle. I'm never going to forget that. I was in high school.
I had a Myspace note that I wrote that you could say went viral because it was very spicy. I was
very spicy about the whole thing. I was pro Kanye all the way. And he came out on top there.
A question for you, Andrew, is it fair to say that Kanye West kind of, I mean, kill is a strong
word, but did he end gangster rap? Did he kind of diminish its impact in a way after that sales battle?
No, you know, I think there's been a lot of articles and people who said it killed gangster.
I mean, I don't think it definitely didn't kill gangster rap or whatever you want to call that.
I mean, obviously that type of music is still made to this day and still, you know, very popular,
but what it did was, I think it allowed more artists to kind of be themselves and not to say
Kanye's an every man, but kind of be yourself and not be scared to wear what you want or say
what you want or make this kind of music. I think he opened up the lane for that type of,
you know, artist and that type of artistry. And it didn't have to be the tough guy exterior.
You could kind of be vulnerable and be yourself. And I think it just made it more acceptable for,
you know, the artists that came after him to do that.
He calls me at probably around nine o'clock a.m. JB Marshall again, Kanye's first manager.
Kanye just got invited to do a massive tour with JZ and he needed some advice.
I like, well, man, that's, I mean, I mean, that's cool. That's what you want to do.
And he's like, no, man, go on, you JB, don't lie. Tell me the truth. Like, whatever you think.
I like, well, I thought you was going for the top spot. So why would you?
Oh, see, that's why I called you. That's why I called you. Because when I go in town,
I want them saying you got them Yay tickets. I want them saying you got them J tickets.
You called me back a week later, literally a week later. It was like 3 a.m.
Dolly, like, yo, I'm like, yo, I'm hitting the morning. Like, no, no, I just want to tell you, man,
I did the real I'm like, what you do is like, glow in the dark. God's like, what's that?
I always like, man, me already talked to for real. I'm like, okay, well, having to the J.
I was like, no, I mean, I couldn't do that. I thought, and I got to fly you out. It was actually
first time you paid for my flights outside of us working together. So I had to fly you out.
So the first show was what in Seattle, I believe. And he's just all walking around
telling all the studio here, like JB the one, maybe not do the JZ tour.
And after graduation, Kanye West hit stadium status with the glow in the dark tour.
He had openers like Lupe, fiasco and Briana. And by the end of 2008, the glow in the dark tour
became the third highest grossing rap tour ever.
Kanye is this unstoppable star who seemed like he could do no wrong. But things were about to change.
Coming up on making Kanye, the unmaking of Kanye West. From my perspective, you know what I mean?
It was a, a bittersweet because we lost Mama West at that time. And what Kanye's doing has been
incredible all over the world. They're talking about this. And I have to tell you, I had important
meetings today with senators and with everything. Nobody cared. He wanted this meeting. I can't listen
to him. I can't listen to him. He just went too far in the deep end. The whole Trump stuff and
anti-Semitic stuff and that people told slavery as optional as an optional some shit like,
I mean, you randomly hit stuff about Kanye West is kind of like, come on, bro.
There's been at least 30 to 40 anti-Semitic incidents attacks vandalism graffiti that have
been directly connected to Kanye West since since October. But you know, the truth of that is though,
people don't see white supremacy as a threat because even though Kanye is black, he is practicing
and he's working with age old tools of white terrorism. I think what I'm just trying to say is it's so
much bigger than Kanye.
Now that you've heard about the rise of Kanye, you're going to want to listen to how it all
fell apart. Hear the second part of this story by finding making from WBEZ Chicago wherever you're
listening to this show right now. And follow making to hear the origin story of a different
black iconic figure every other week as we explore the lives of Shonda Rhimes, Jordan Peele, Spike Lee,