What's Going Down - September 5th 2023

What's going down? Hey everybody, welcome to a brand new What's going down here on Patreon, I've free or with ads everywhere else, my name is Kenny McIntosh, joined as always by Mr Finley Martin and this is the second week in a row where we recorded on Thursday and by the time we recorded on the Tuesday, there's obviously lots of talk about last week with Sadler, the death of Ray Wyatt and this week is the passing the fighting of CM Punk and AEW, which is kind of all news now, it was announced on Saturday, first of all, you know, I've not said any of them, how are you? Yeah, I'm alright, yeah, you know, it occurred to me, like somebody I remember asked me, I don't know, do I actually cover this on the podcast or maybe we covered it in the magazine and we're all in at the end of 2022 and said, this has been the craziest year ever, can you could is it conceivable that 2023 could be even, you know, more out there than 2022? And I think it has been. Yeah, because when we talked about it, you were talking about how, you know, today's and in one of all, it's been here to be of kids, yeah, so much stuff happening. That's it, you know, with massive obviously, you see W&W, you see W going into the wall and WWF, buying them and all the other stuff. So here, 2001 is, I mean, it's a high bar that I don't think it will ever be reached because it was so consequential for the business on so many levels, well, on a level much higher than what we're going to be talking about in a moment. But this is still being, I mean, what a year it's been for new stories, Kenny. Yeah, it's funny because obviously we, you know, we do the Almanac as part of what we do inside the ropes. And when the Almanac started in kind of 2019, 2020, or the sort of for the 2020, 2021 year, it was like, you know, you do the top 10 news stories of the year. And the problem with 2022 and 2023 is that like, you know, there's the top 10 stories of each quarter, you know, really of like, because it so much happens in one calendar year that sometimes, you know, somebody will bring something up. And then you totally forget that happened, like, I remember somebody was talking with Jeff Hardy's, you know, DUI and lead Vabs into the W and that feels like years ago. But in reality, it was like six months ago, something like that, it wasn't that long. So yeah, there's so many stories, but let's talk about the punk, the punk thing. So obviously he had been kind of, he was still been advertised for collisions shows on AWS social media platforms when they were promoting, like, you know, we're going to Indianapolis, in October or whatever. But Tony can open collision, looking like a hostage on screen as he usually does. And this is what he said, Finn. I wanted to just get his verbiage out to you before you get your thoughts. So he said, today I had to make one of the toughest decisions of my professional career, today I terminated Phil Brooks CM Punk for cause. This stems from a backstage incident all in last Sunday, the incident was regrettable in a endangered people backstage that includes the production staff, the people who took the show on a few week, innocent people who had nothing to do with it. I've been going to wrestling shows for over 30 years. I've been producing them on this network for over four years, never in all that time had I felt until last Sunday that my security and my safety and my life was in danger at a wrestling show. I don't think any of these should be made to feel that way at work. I don't think people I work with should feel that way. And I had to make a very difficult choice today. It came at the recommendation of a disciplinary, a discipline committee here in AW, as well as outside legal counsel who delivered a unanimous recommendation. And I followed up on that recommendation. I'm sorry to any fan who's upside by this. I'm sorry to any one who's upside by this may go down to talk about this is the greatest wst and settled the video for all in recap. I know that maybe we're suffering from punk fatigue that we're always talking about, but what did you think of this news? Did Tony make the right call here? I mean, it's like pick a side, isn't it? It was said this before. It's so tribal and so polarized in the views that people have. And it's like this bizarre sort of ideology, isn't it? It's like, well, you're either on our side, you're either withers or you're againsters. And if you say something that deviates from, you know, our group think, then we hate you. You know, it's just like, remember when CM Punk, it's just over two years since he arrived. And like the AEW fans were treating him like he was like the Messiah were there. I like now those same fans are like, well, you know, he was he was a pen in the ass, wasn't he? I mean, that's the response, isn't it? It's like, well, I never liked him. You know, like you've got these people, oh, it's hilarious. He's been fired. All these people seem to think it's like this big joke that he's gone. I don't really know what to make of any of it, Kenny. I mean, it's, I mean, Tony Kahn made that statement. I wasn't backstage. We've all read and heard various reports of how it was. I did notice was that photo that was posted online after the punk and Samoa Joe match in Wembley. Yeah, with Jerry Lane and Paul Turner, the referee and punk and Joe, all looking very happy. Exactly looking very relaxed. I mean, there wasn't like security circle in or, you know, police didn't have mother floor handcuffed. You don't have to call MI5 in or something like that, you know, to restrain punk. So that, you know, definitely deviates from what Tony Kahn said. But I mean, I wasn't backstage. So what can I say about how Tony or others felt? I mean, it's, it's really hard to know what to say, Kenny, because what do you do? Do you take a side and do you become entrenched in your views and pick the good guy and pick the good pick the good guy and pick the bad guy? And that's what it's all come to. And well, that's where we're at now. And it's very, you know, there's a very tribal and like the views on this among many people, not everyone but among many. It's like very, there's no flexibility at all. It's either you either think this way or we don't like you and we're going to bury you. And I mean, the best thing I can say about it is that Tony has taken a stand. He's made a decision. He's done what I didn't think he was going to do. A predict he wouldn't do, which was, you know, grow a spine, take a difficult decision, and and and do something to hopefully restore how many backstage. And that's I believe what he's done. I think he's, I don't know, he's obviously done this in the best interests of like ending this saga and the drama and you know, the trouble backstage. He doesn't want it anymore. And I can sit totally on the stand while he doesn't. There's no point really going over what he should have done last year to prevent all this from happening. We've discussed that endlessly. I've written about it. Lots of people have written about it. Lots of people have discussed it. You know, that's taking to shutting the band off the horse after the horse was bolted. So he couldn't do anything about that because he created this situation in the first place by not being tough and not addressing it when it first kicked off. We've gone over that. But I mean, at least now he has made a decision and he has fired Sam Punk Phil Brooks because he feels like he's the problem here. You know, he's the fly in the omen. He's a person that just was the constant source of drama backstage. And that is definitely true. He was always at the centre of it, wasn't he Kenny? Yeah, no, he was. I mean, the only thing I think is recent that kind of is worth just mentioning is an example. I think of what Tony can his management team need to do differently is the story about the idea that Punk, there was supposedly going to be a meeting last week in Deluth, where the go home or in tapings were or two weeks ago. And there was going to be a meeting with Punk in the elite. But according to the elite, they were asked, you know, you're in the same place as when you just sit down with them and they said, no, but according to Punk side, he was led to believe the meeting was happening and then it was cancelled. And it's like, I've saw a lot of people making a really fair point on social media, but they were saying, you know, if you work through a company, usually if your boss calls a meeting and the meeting is happening, it's not a here is an optional thing. But that's where I mean, I don't know this for fact. I imagine that there's something legal that allows some of the parties involved to not have to meet with each other. Yeah. Because otherwise, you would think, you know, Tony can. Otherwise, it would have already happened, wouldn't it, long before now? Yeah, exactly. So I almost think that's the only explanation because even though Tony can, in a lot of ways, doesn't seem to be able to fix issues quickly, I do think if he could, if he had the power to just get them in a room, he wouldn't by now. But yeah, I think we've discussed this before, Kenny. I mean, as we know, Hangman, Kenny Omega, young books, their contracts, they recently collectively extended them. I think the negotiations concluded at the end of August, oh, sorry, ended July, I believe it was. Yep, yep. Ended July, the announced it didn't the early August. And if I was Tony, just sort of, if I was Tony Cannon, that scenario, and I'm going to campaign these guys, all of them seven figures, right? I'd be saying, right, I'll pay you the seven figures, but what I need from you is a, a, a mediation meeting with punk. I need you all to get on the same page. And then you can get all your money. Yeah, the time to do it was when you, in that period of negotiations, when you have the leverage over this talent, you know, and they would have to, I mean, it's all about cutting a deal, it's all about compromise. We know that, you know, everyone has to give a little, you know, and if no one gives a little, and one side gives everything, the other side gives nothing, that just leads to resentment, or it's a bad deal in the first place, and you shouldn't have been struck, especially when you're Tony Cannon, your AW boss, and you've got all the power. I mean, Omega and Hangman were never going to WWE. I mean, young books might have done it if things had gotten really, really, you know, hostile and pleasant for them in AEW, but I think it was likely that they were going to go there either, because it would have been such a risk for them as talent and would have required them to wrestle far more matches than they have done for years now. So I don't think they were ever seriously going to WWE. So Tony Cannon could have insisted that they do that. And that's what he should have done, and this should have been, this should have all been there in the room, and this should have all been sorting this out and discussing it like adults, and professionals. We've been through this Kenny many times, and now it's not going to happen just once being fired. So I mean, people are going to discuss this endlessly for literally years. It's just going to go, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and you know, people can choose, you know, which side are you on? I'm not on anyone's side. I just think it's, I think this was inevitable in hindsight, and you know, I'm not saying I agree with Tony Cannon's decision, because you know, I was saying last week, oh, you know, Jack Perry should be fired for basically instigating the incident with punk, and I stand by that, you know, I mean, I just felt that that was outrageous that he did that Wembley Stadium, and it was, and I believe he's indefinitely suspended, and so he should be. But it's strange that punk's been fired, and like, Perry hasn't yet, he's still there, and it's like, you can read your own, you can read what you want into that, into whose side Tony's on, if Tony's on anyone's side. But I mean, the best I can say about this is that Tony has taken a stand, he's made a decision, you know, and as a leader, sometimes you've got to make difficult decisions, and he's made this one, and I respect him for that. I don't know whether I necessarily agree with the decision, but I respect him for making a decision. That's the point here, is that he's done something that was difficult, and I think it's something that had to happen. Someone had to go, because that situation, the climate, the backstage atmosphere could not continue. He just couldn't. I think we said last week, this is going to be a kickoff. Well, the kickoff was at Wembley Stadium, and that was the final straw, and Tony made the decision to sack punk and, and continue his organization without him. And we'll see if it ends up in the right decision in the long run. I mean, I don't know about that, we shall see, but I absolutely understand why he did it, and I imagine for many, not everyone, but for many backstage, I'm sure AEW is a far more harmonious place than it was two weeks ago. Yeah, 100%. One thing I just wanted to read out before we move on, because I think it's just an interest, then if you read between the lines here, I think there's more to what's being said here, because there's a headline that's going around from Mark Henry, I'm busted open radio, saying, you know, the problem is solved, kind of thing. But I want to read you a still quote of what he said here, I'm busted open radio and see what you think. So what it Mark Henry said was, now you can freely go and there will be no more complaining. There should be no more complaining. The problem is gone. The so-called problem is, everything should be shits and giggles and unicorn pee and rainbow blankets. That's what it should be now. I'm curious to see how it's going to be the problem of the soul. It's interesting. He's there. He's at TV, so I mean, I guess we'll see. Is it all harmonious now for the next six months? We'll see if punk was the soul problem. Yeah, TK's made his decision. Last question about it. Do you think CM Punk is going to end up on WWE? I mean, maybe. I mean, I don't know, really. Does he want it? Do they want him? We know Seth Rollins and others there will be opposed to the company's decision to hire him. Or if WWE does hire him, he'll be brought in and the conversations that should have been had with CM Punk when he returned to AEW will be had with Punk before he ever appears backstage. I imagine Punk and Rollins will be, you know, will have a meeting or a conversation or they will, something will be done to make sure that that doesn't erupt into a argument or you know, scuffle or whatever backstage, you know, steps will be taken to ensure that those two can work together harmoniously if they need to. I'm sure they will be because it's a very regimented system backstage in WWE and you've got that chair in a command, which obviously you didn't have an AEW. Lots of people have tried to say, oh, well, you know, discipline was there an AEW? Well, no, it wasn't because if it was Jack Perry would never have started mouthing off to a bunch of agents about using real glass. And when they told him not to do it, he would have listened to them and said, right, okay, you know, you're the boss fair enough. You know, I was just making my point and I understand that that's forbidden from using this angle. And you know, there wouldn't have even been consequences of conversation. He would have just followed the order. He would have obeyed, you know, and this isn't, we're not talking about, you know, that we haven't entered the world of they live here or, you know, you have a chair in a command and you have to have a chair in a command. And if you don't have that, then as I said last week, the machine breaks down. It doesn't work. And then by having rules and boundaries backstage, it means that junior members of talent, you know, do not start arguments with senior members of talent. It's that simple. You know, it's just that simple, you know, it'd be like the back of bad old days of, you know, someone, you know, giving the undertaker a hard time backstage when he was locker room leader. That wasn't going to happen because whoever that talent was, they would knew that they would be fired or suspended or, you know, buried or whatever. It would never have come to that. So, I think if punk does go back, I think it will all be very carefully managed by WWE. And I think any grievances or tensions or, you know, problems will be ironed out or as ironed out as much as they can be before he is allowed backstage. I mean, does he want it? Does he need the money? Does he need the hassle? You know, what's he now? 44 is he 45? How is he coming up? 45? I think he's 45 in October. He right now is 44. He'll be 45 in October. Yes. So, I mean, does he want it? Does he need the hassle? I mean, if I were him, I definitely want to deal with WWE to do a merch deal, maybe hold fame, maybe a couple of matches, maybe at WrestleMania match. You know, Kevin Owens or whoever. Somebody that he likes and respects and that he know he can get along with and that he know will be not trying to pull a fast one or going to business for himself at CM Punk's expense and will actually be wanting to work with him for the betterment of both of them. And, you know, so that his career can have this, you know, happy ending, so to speak. I mean, it's had for me to believe that CM Punk wants to go out like this. You know, I mean, it just feels ego part of you. I mean, it feels like more than he would do the WWE thing is the ego part because. Yeah, and to stick it to AEW as well. Yeah, because I mean, there is, and again, it's like what you said earlier, so I'm trying to not be too much. You end up picking a side by just arguing in this scenario, but you know, somebody had said to me, you know, punk, he left wrestling the way that he didn't want to before. He came back. He thought it was going to be this big trustworthy. I'm just saying what his perspective would be. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but like his perspective, he thought, well, this is going to be different. It's going to be trustworthy. He was good pals with the young bucks. He came in and then all of a sudden, this guy on TV puts this promo about his longstanding feud with his old pal, which brings up all the court stuff from WWE. He's trying to forget about. Then he gives him a return shot. Then it gets worse than the whole brawl situation. Then he's basically ostracized. Well, the others are allowed back on TV to make fun of him by doing his finishing moves and doing botched clotheslines to make him look bad. And then he comes back and they refuse to meet with him. They refuse in any way to deal with him whatsoever. Yeah, I mean, he public states that he wants to do this. He wants to reconcile. Yeah, he's putting this out in the public domain that he's willing to do this and still they refuse to gracing with their presence. They refuse to have anything to do with him. And of course, it all culminates to we get to Wembley and this pre-Lung guy is just able to go out and say what he wants about him. It's like, from his perspective, I think. And then for him to sort of be, look, I'm not condone of physical violence. I know you don't either. But I think from punk side, you know, I assume he's not going to agree with the chain of events that Tony Cannes said in that collision statement. And in some ways, was Tony Cannes any felt dangerous for his life more about protecting AEW for any potential loss of it than it would be actually that he's feared for his life. You know, that could also be an element of it. So, I mean, it's a mess though. It's a big mess. It is a big mess. I mean, to me, Omega, the books and pages for against one, they should have granted punk an audience once. And I think they showed him, you know, pretty, you know, appalling disrespect by not meeting within once so that they could attempt to wear their grievances and reconcile. Share Cannes put it behind them for the good of the company that Omega and Page and the young books are making hell of a lot of money from for working a part-time schedule. And I really feel like if you're an AEW hardliner and you can't see the Omega page in the books, let the side down there, then I think you need to own your eyes because they did. They absolutely let the side down. And they should have been professionals. They should have agreed to meet with him. God, I have a like a dozen security guards there if you want. It could have been set up in old sort of, you could have done it over Zoom. Maybe not over Zoom. I do know, I do know what someone would have recorded it and put it on the internet. I know we all would have watched it. But the thing is, if you had met him and he was a debt to you, then you've proven your point. But yeah, they had no interest in it. They're doing victory laps, collision and all that. Anyway, we'll see where punk ends up. We'll see if he ends up making a comment anywhere or doing anything anywhere to discuss this. I will say this, it's like, imagine, this is not happening, by the way, in case anyone thinks I'm, you know, it's saying me and CM Punk were doing a tour of tomorrow. I would need to really be thinking about what it said on that stage because it's way bigger than just interviewing somebody. It's liable potential stuff because of who's involved. You know, it's a, so you know, when you remember the last time when you did the co-cubana podcast, what kicked you and lost it, came out of that. So, yeah, whoever interviews him is going to have to have a big legal team behind them just to be safe. Anyway, let's move on because we've got loads to get through. We're going to try and get to a better Smackdown, payback and then a bit of all. So with Smackdown, kind of a forgotten show now because it was on Friday and Hershey before payback. But give me a couple of things that stood out to you from Smackdown that are worth giving a mention to. I mean, obviously the return to John Cena has got the other one, then your favourite. Yes, John Cena was back. He's going to have his first match every in India. And John's really excited about that. And Jimmy Usor joined him, fans chanted, we want Jay. There was a Jimmy and Cena confrontation. And Jimmy turned the mood turn. Sour, of course, Jimmy threw a super kick at Cena who caught it and then effortlessly dumped Jimmy on the mat with the AA or rather the FU. That was definitely an FU to Jimmy there. I was just having flashbacks to the Cena of old, to the bad old days 10 years ago in the ease with which Cena dispatched Jimmy here. I guess it doesn't matter, really. Other things on the show, I thought Austin Theory and Grayson Waller made a really good team against Real Mysterio and Santos Escobar, Waller Pindesca Bar, and after Escobar had basically taken a shot for Rey in the match. Yeah, I mean, it seemed like maybe Theory and Waller, they're maybe preparing them to be a team. What do you think to those two as a team, Kenny? I mean, I think on their own, they're not really going anywhere. So it can't hurt to maybe put them together and try it out. Their characters kind of are aligned, I think. Yeah, I mean, I thought they worked really well together like a promo backstage, thought they bounced off each other really well. It seemed like there was a segment backstage that seemed like they were taking a shot at CM Punk. Piers, Adam Piers said to Jimmy backstage, you can't go around being rude to everyone. So shots CM Punk there, maybe. Did you see Grayson Waller's tweet following the show? No, in payback. So after payback, he put this, obviously, you know, he got hit by Jayso and he put this tweet up when he said, I can't believe I've been hit in an unprovoked attack backstage, you know, by a man who wasn't supposed to be there and he's icing himself with a can of Pepsi. Very funny. You know what, it's funny because he's not an EVP. That's why. Anyway, maybe Adam Piers was laying out the ground rules there, Kenny, for CM Punk's return, which is what Tony should have done in the first place. I think it's a bad saying when a fictional cat's been WWE is getting punk more rules than Tony can. It was his boss for two years. I mean, we had the Miss LA Knight segment, which I thought was pretty good. I mean, night almost lost at one point on his promo when he was talking about, you know, having lights slept in his cow and living in cockroach infested apartments. And cash in his checks at those check, cash in places, he almost lost it there. I think he did turn it around. And I thought this was a really good segment. I felt night really showed a lot of intensity here. And I think this whole feud, which appears to have ended, actually a payback, has actually really done a lot of good for me. I think he's shown that he still wants to be there. He's still got it and he can still bring it. So I enjoyed that. Bailey and Shotzi wasn't much of a match. Charlotte Flair came out at the end. I mean, it was a customarily half-hearted run-in. Robert E.O. Sky and then helped Shotzi win. I mean, at least Shotzi won the match. I mean, she would have been doomed had she lost this match to Bailey. And then in the end, Soloso Cohen defeated eight-year styles. Didn't feel like styles was over. And the match was pretty flat, actually. And Skull one with help from Jimmy. So yeah, we'll see where that goes. I thought it was, it was kind of an average Smackdown. What did you think Kenny? Yeah, I thought it was an average show. I think it always hurts when there's these Smackdowns the night before the PLE because kind of by Monday, nobody's talking about Smackdown anymore. So I think neither a decent enough job of highlighting some stuff that wasn't going to be on a payback like Soloso Cohen, Jimmy and stuff. While kind of, you know, it's having Cena there, Cena and then he's going to be the host of payback. So yeah, I mean, I thought it was a decent enough show, but I mean, it was a forgettable episode overall. Yeah, I mean, yeah, there was nothing on there that was really, really upset me and Cena was, I mean, Cena did this. I mean, well, Cena obviously did some strange stuff at payback. So, I mean, I refuse to allow Cena to upset me anymore. I'm just not going to allow it, Kenny. No, no matter how much he tries, let's move on to pay back. So we opened the show with Becky launching Trish Trash and a steel cage. We had Tiffany Stratton, the NXT Women's Champion ringside, she was shown on in the crowds. And Becky and Trish go 20 minutes. Trish Trash is here and one of the performances of her career. Not the performance by a mile. There you go, deeper. I mean, at 47 years old, the fact that she did this is incredible. Oh, yeah, I mean, what a match. I mean, it really was. I mean, it was real basic stuff. They weren't trying, I mean, later in the match, they tried some quite complicated stuff and everything they did actually look good. I don't think was anything that was blown. But it was just real basic stuff, nailing each other, ramming each other into the cage, you know, just, you know, using this sort of lawless battleground. But, you know, there wasn't like a lot of props in there, which was refreshing as well. I mean, so often in cage matches and these type of matches, we've had tables and just all sorts of gimmicks in there. And they didn't have gimmicks. They just used the cage and that was basically it, wasn't it? Yeah. So I thought that was really good. I mean, there was like tribute there to Lita and Trisha used, sorry, when Becky Lynch used the twist of fate. And there's also withers, widows peaking there. Victoria's on finisher. It was actually very sweet because they did that when it was peak and Victoria actually put a video on Twitter. She was very emotional and she was guessing, you know, it means a lot to me that Trash did that because Trash recognized that they had a feud that was, you know, the biggest fear of Victoria's career. She helped Trash kind of have a bit more of a rough side than what she had before. So I think that was a very classy thing for Trash to do. And hopefully will, you know, I mean, judge him if Charmails in the Hall of Fame, you can put Victoria in if that's the bar. Yeah, I mean, by about halfway point of the match, Lynch and Ram Trish is heading to the cage so often that she had a big lump on a forehead. Did you see that photo that Trish posted of herself on her Instagram page, Kenny? I did. What a photo. I mean, just, she really went through here. And I don't think this is like a backwards compliment. And I sound like about I don't mean it to be Trish didn't need to go this hard. No, she could have got away with I'm Trish, I'm the legendary person, I'm older, rather that she, it was like she was going out here to prove a point that she can, she can go. And this one, I mean, well, what we needed was, you know, John Bunger will be shot down in a blazer glory. That's what we needed on the soundtrack of something as a bit of an ancient song now, but I mean, you know, but even like the thing was, Trish wasn't being carried here by Becky the whole time. I wasn't that Trish was kind of just able to keep up. She was really keeping up her end of the bargain, which I thought was even more impressive about it. Oh, yeah. I mean, the crowd were with them from the very beginning. They recognized, I mean, it's perfectly placed in the Omni match slot, huge match. You've got a huge match in the Omni slot. Usually provokes a, you know, loud response. And this one did from start to finish. There was lots of things, parts of this match, which I just thought were, you know, so, you know, virtue also, you know, like, for instance, Trish hit this bulldog from the top rope and actually sold her backside before she then made the cover on Lynch, which is what you would do if you delivered that move. And you know, there was like a lot of big moves. You're like, Lynch here, superplex from the top rope. And Stratus just survived. Then Zoe Stacaride and prevented Lynch from pinning Stratus with the manhandles slam. I like the camera work here. They're the camera in just the right spot where you have these sort of saves and like sudden moments. You're like, wow, we didn't see that coming. And somebody just appeared or something would just happen. You're like, wow, you know, it wasn't telegraphed at all. It was a genuine surprise. And so in the end, Lynch took out Stac and then pinstratus after a manhandle slam off the top rope. So yeah, I thought this was, this was the match of Trish Stratus's career by a male. And possibly Lynch is best match as well. I mean, she may have had better matches than this, possibly. Maybe on the main roster. I don't think of anything that was as good as this in terms of the execution, the way it was received, you know, and the story they told as well. I mean, Trish was protected right up into the end. Obviously she had the systems there from Stac and everything. Yeah, it was, it was a hell of a match. And then we had the post match angle in which Trish yelled at Zoe Stac. And she ended up, you know, leveling Trish with C360. So we had the split there, which felt like the time to do it because, you know, Trish is disappearing off into the sunset. And, you know, to nurse her wounds, liquor wounds, you know, oh, my God. What a mess. Yeah, it was, it was one of the, it could have been a match of the night. I think it probably was the match of the night. Actually, I mean, the, the Pittsburgh still city street fight was really good. But I think this was probably better. Yeah, I guess, I think this was absolutely match of the night hands down. We then had John Cena coming out. They actually, you may not have clocked us out. We had the pre show on just because we were going to be watching the show live. And during the pre, the kickoff show during the mundane panel that they chatted about nothing for an hour, they had a graphic that popped up that said, you know, the graphic along the bottom where they have like the match graphic. And it's like one guy on the left hand side, one guy on the right. And they had early night meds that they had seen as the referee in the middle. And it ended, it went off straight away. Like it popped up like 10 seconds and then got rid of it. So they could have spoiled that. That was, that was what he was going to be doing. So I mean, it was good for us, but because we kind of had to accept our fate that we had John Cena trying to be a referee coming up. So it came out as the host, I got to say, maybe 10%. The here's maybe 10% better than it was. It's still just, I mean, go to Turkey, John, you've got the money, the writers are striking. What else have you got to do? Exactly. And can the writers please get back to work and then see you all go back to work without to put up with him in wrestling anymore? Actually, I said he's not going to work. I'm not going to allow him to accept me. I almost reneged on that already. I know. Before we, so, so he does this whole promo, then meds comes out. Yeah, she has some pretty funny back and forth for a med says that Cena sucks as a host and Cena says, you know, you've hosted a lot. You get an advice for him. He's like, well, don't play the bare man in the barbie movie. And they go on and then in the end, it ends up, you know, Cena's going to be the referee. It gets to get to the shirt. And then we get early night versus the meds, we've joined Cena as the referee. I mean, this match felt like it was five years long. It was so long. And it just felt like if if night could have disposed the meds in like six or seven minutes, because this match, this was not good enough to be this long. And then you've got the pantomime game, try to do the pinfall counts. I mean, that's exactly what it, but before the match, that's exactly, I really hate it, it was pantomime-esque. It said to Cena, you're almost 50 years old and you still dress like a teller tubby. I mean, and it was just like the whole thing was like this clown show. And he tried very hard on Smackdown to do that with Jimmy as well, Jimmy Usel. And it was just like, hold on a minute, see, you know, you, you just come in from your, from that other world that you were proud of. And like, do you pollute the waters of this bloodline storyline that they spent years building up? You know, I know you were helpful and you put reins over, but that was a long time ago now. So don't bring your comedy to this. And I mean, he was, I don't think he overshadowed the match between Miz and Nye. I actually thought it was okay. You're right, it was too long. But I felt like they really pulled it together at the end. And you know, night kicked out of a school crushing finale. And then more and after a big elbow and blunt force trauma. And yeah, it could have been shorter and it could have been more intense. But I actually thought the match was fine. And I thought the finish of it went down very well. And I think, I think it achieved what they wanted it to do in terms of enhanced LA night. That was the goal of this. Obviously, the feud. And I think it did do that. After the match, night and scene of adult argument in the aisle, but eventually shook hands. And I was like, few, I don't want to see you know, in a match, please, no, please, no, we don't want to see a verbal duel between night and scene, because that could end badly for nights. So hopefully that's their last interaction on screen. Yeah, fingers crossed. We then have Rey Mysterio goes Austin, D.D. for the US title. They go about 10 minutes. Rey Mysterio gets the win. I mean, it's pretty forgettable stuff to be honest. Oh, this was flat, wasn't it? I think, I think, I think that, you know, for me, I think that the early night miss match, it didn't kill the crowd, but it definitely sedated them a bit. We came alive at the end, like you say. But they were kind of, you know, I don't know if they were thinking that was going to be a 15 minute match. And then they're kind of recovered from that. And then Mysterio comes out here with theory, nobody buys theories, got a chance, which I actually find really, really, really about to join. See, the scene of reverberations are still felt in the next match six months later. Yeah, it's right. And the last person you would think out there on planet Earth, you know, or who in habits planet would try and defend Cena for that theory, promo, you know, big promo match followed by the match at WrestleMania. But I sort of did do when Cena put theory over. And like, I mean, you know, look at the wreckage he's left behind. And I mean, I mean, a lot of some of this, I think, is WWE's doing as well in that. Yeah, no, it's not all Cena. It's not fair for all the one him. But you know, it's like they forgot about theory, wasn't it? It's like, oh, well, he's had the match with Cena. And instead of building on that big win, they kind of ignored him. And it's been strange, hasn't he ever since WrestleMania for theory? Yeah, it has. Yeah, this was, this was forgettable. Remastered or retained. There's not really much else to see. We then had the, as you mentioned earlier, the steel set of Street Fighter was Kevin, who was a set of Sami Zanigas, Damian, Preston, Flynn, Baller. You should just mention that Tiffany Stratton gave Crash Becky Lynch his promo. She did. So I thought it was after them. Yeah, it was here that it happened. So and Becky kind of has said you should be focused on your title match on Tuesday. So it appears we're going to build something with them, which I'm not, I'm not against it. I think that'd be good for Stratton, you know? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I thought Stratton must have, must have taken some nerve to show up there and be cocky after watching that match that Lynch just put on with Tristratus. Yeah. I mean, I must have taken some nerve to go in there. You'd have to be well in character. I mean, you know, it was trying to put Lynch down, which she obviously did on the promo and then Lynch fired back and yeah, we presume Lynch is going to be on NXT tonight, I would imagine. Yeah, but I mean, Stratton is probably over the moon that she's going to be involved with somebody in the main roster who's just come off, you know, a match at the night, really hot match. You know, it's not like Stratton's got to work with Corbin. You know, it's not like, she can be a bit excited about what she's doing. Corbin's doing good stuff next year, no, but you know, Becky Lynch is like, if you're a female performer, you couldn't really ask for any better than getting a mini programme with Lynch. Oh, no. Anyway, so then we get the Street Fight for the Tag Team titles, Kevin Ones, Sami Zayn, against Finn Balant and Damian Priest and Balor and Priest were able to get the win. JD McGona gave an assist. He took one of the best bumps I've ever seen on that announce table. It just looked so good. I mean, this was just an absolute riot, such a laugh. And yeah, it was a really probably the probably the best title defense that Owens and Zayn have had on American soil. I know they had that, you know, the big night of champions match, but I mean, this was just like, the crowd were so into it. Yeah, it was really good. I mean, you know, Zayn and Owens sort of had do the job faces on. I mean, they weren't exactly beaming when they were in the ring before Balor Priest arrived. So they'd rather give the game away there. But I mean, this was all action, all sorts of extras and add-ons and twists and turns that we didn't see coming and spots and stunts that, you know, you only see maybe a couple of times a year in WWE. And that made them all the more memorable. I mean, Kevin Owens is swan Tom, you know, off that balcony onto Dom, Dominic Mysterio of course, running as well. And Jeff Hardy nods from Rumble 2000s. Rumble 2000, yes, onto the table. I mean, he's sure that how many times did he show that? About five, about four or five different camera angles. I mean, that looked amazing. I mean, the production crew, you could see, this is the thing I like about WWE and the way they present TV. The amount of thought that went into filming that one spot. You just think about how much thought and time and effort went into it. You know, you're like, wow, you know, that's a professional organisation. And they really just portrayed that move and just that's a highlight reel for Kevin Owens forever, that spot there. And so yeah, Dominic Mysterio interfered. Rear replay did a running as well. She ended up spiraling Owens through the time keepers wall into time keepers area. And then ball up in Zane. And after Dominic had drilled Zane with the money in the bank briefcase. So it was, yeah, five against two essentially. But I mean, I'm pleased that ball and priest won. I mean, I was hesitant to allow myself to believe, last week, that this victory would occur that ball and priest would defeat Zane and Owens. But I think this is, you know, a just reward for baller for putting Seth Rollins over. And I think it's a good way of extending the judgement day storyline, which we'll be sure to talk about more on Thursday, Kenny. Yeah, 100%. To me, it was the right decision. They'd get better options with challengers as the heels and the judgement day storyline, the top storyline on Ross. So I have no problems with it. And I thoroughly enjoyed it. I mean, it was a great shot afterwards, wasn't it? With like, rear, dom, baller, priest, they've got the briefcase, all the belts and a lot of pyro went off. And that just looked amazing. Yeah, it was great. Then we had the Grayson Waller effect with Cody Rhodes. Waller had been building on the kickoff show that Cody had a big announcement. So Cody, I mean, he did go on a bit, but he finally got to his point, which was that he's cashed in whatever political chips he has. He hopes he knows what he's doing. And he introduces Jato, so it's the news member of the raw roster. Jato comes out. Waller is, you know, Sassan Jey already. And of course, Jato takes him out to super kick before he can sort of finish it. So later on, Cody's watch from the stage, Jey's celebrating, so Jey's now going to be on Monday Night Raw. What did you think of this announcement? I mean, the audience were pleased to see him. I mean, I just think it was kind of a blown opportunity with Jay. I'm having CM Punk to 2011 flashbacks. I'm sorry, Kenny. We've got three weeks, that's the time to get more. I mean, why couldn't he just made an appearance for impact? You know, he could have made an appearance for impact this weekend at the 1000 episode special. I mean, they would have been able to arrange that for sure. And that would have been a little boost for impact. I mean, packs never going to be a threat to WWE. So I mean, they could have arranged that. And that would have been a win-win for Jay for impact and for this storyline. And instead, they'd be brawling back at payback. So I'm just, I'm sorry, Ken. So also, I know that it was wrestling, you can have to accept it, not ever make sense. But because on Raw, you know, spoiler for Thursday, Adam Pearce says that there's been a trade with Smackdown or like a trade compensation for, you know, Jey going to Raw. And it's like, but Jay Quett, Jay Quett, the company. So with Jey, this would be Jay resigning with WWE, which I know is like a small plot point. But, you know, when you do stuff like this, like the punk thing that you mentioned before, it's kind of, because it's very hard to make it make sense, you can ask me very delicate with like, trying to make it all fit. And they're lucky that they're so hot right now that people just love Jay and are happy seeing back. So if they weren't as hot, I think this would probably not go over as well. But because people are loving WWE right now, they're kind of able to get away with that's not really being as interesting as it could have been. Yeah, many reminds me of WWF in 98.99. You go back and you actually, you watched that week to week, which you did for the Retro podcast. And the lots of it was nonsensical. And you sit there and you're like, what's going on here? Why has this person done that? You know, why is this person attacked this person? Why would that makes no sense? Well, the product was so over, people were so into it, you know, that they were effectively blind to the numerous faults that occurred week after week. And especially, you know, in contrast when WCW started badly unraveling in 99, you know, WWF looked like the most logical, you know, brilliantly booked wrestling company in the history of the business. So I mean, I want to hand down pleased that he's returned because he's over. But I just feel like, you know, what you could have waited a few more weeks, you could have done the impact thing. And I just feel like I would have massively enhanced the storyline. You know, an impact, I'm sure would have found a spot for Jay for 10 minutes. I'm sure they would have done Kenny. They would have better hand off for it. You know, Des, do you want me to beat our world champion? We don't care, rang you over, you know, that's it. You can just have a goal at match and be everyone on the roster. Yeah, it gets turned up on raw with the impact title, you know, all press is good press. But no, yeah, it would have been, it would have been very easy for them to set up. And yeah, shame they didn't do it. We then got re-arrived in the KL Rodriguez for the women's world title. I had high hopes for this. I was hoping it was going to be really good. And it was, it was okay, but it didn't hit anywhere near the house that I thought it was going to. They went 17 minutes in the NBA, I believe a team. The crowd were very quiet for this. Why? Why didn't it work, do you think? Well, it was a really tough match. And a lot of it was very well executed. And I just liked the way that they were like daring each other to nail the other and they were really blasting each other and they weren't doing any sort of silly or phony moves. They all felt like, you know, for like a pro wrestling fight at times. I think the problem here is that Raquel Rodriguez is not over. The fans don't have a connection with her. I think fans would have resented her, had she beaten Rio Ripley for that championship. So I think the outcome was the right outcome on the night for Raquel. We've been saying since she arrived that this character needs a lot of work, you know, we need to have a reason to root for her. They haven't given us one yet. And it just felt like yeah, there was no support for Raquel to become champion. I think it's just that simple. You know, I think Rio Ripley, as long as she, I mean, she's, when she's a member of the judgment day, people will boo her, but people I think are itching to cheer her because they respect her. She's a really good character. She's great on promos. She can do the wrestling thing. She's an all, you know, she's the all-round total package as a female wrestler. And we know it's going to be Ripley Becky Lynch, but that's either going to be Royal Rumble or WrestleMania. So they can't do it now. And in the interim, Rhea and Becky, I've got our matches with, you know, other people. And I'm not quite sure how they're going to fill the time before, you know, Ripley and Lynch can face the face and start the hype for their big match. But yeah, this to me should have been, it should be a wake-up call for WWE. We said it again, again, Raquel Rodriguez. They need to just, they need to come up with a character for her that people are going to root for and going to get behind. She doesn't have that yet. And until she does, she's just going to meander. She's just going to be in the same sort of second match spot without any sort of support. And that's, that's real shame to see. Yeah, I think the, the, the, the, the fall of this match lies firmly with WWE and they're horrible bit of Raquel Rodriguez. And what she, I mean, she's just, nobody's written for it. Because also Rhea Ripley's very cool. She's such a cool character and like, you know, so this will kill you. So we're watching the show. And one of our friends said something. And as soon as he said, I can't get out of my head. He said that Rhea Ripley's new look reminded of no fielding. Oh my god. All right. And now I can't unsee it. Now look at Rhea Ripley's hairstyle. I just think of no fielding. Yeah, no. No, not the, not the best compliment. We've got a John Cena cameo, kind of playing his south pole wrestling character on your David Feast and Finn Balor. They kind of no sold scene, which was the best thing they could do. I mean, it was by that, like, seem like bent down to make himself look smaller, didn't he? It's, yeah, I mean, just, it's him coming to, coming to WWE is like going to put a center park or something in the summer to get, I mean, it's a wee holiday for him. You know, not a serious bonus body. He might as well have a beach ball in a bucket in spades. Even as all we're walking around like throwing custard pies in people's faces. I mean, he was like dressed up with it like a clown, clown cow with the doors blowing off. I mean, book it WWE. That's what I say. Well, we're eight weeks of them, so we'll suit we get. And then it was made event time. We saw great miter was in the front row. I hope it's been putting the whole thing in Nakamura had one of his last matches with him earlier this year. So that was nice. We touch. And so we've got Rollins in Nakamura for the waterway title. The end up going at the 26 minutes, a long match. And what did you think of it? Yeah, I mean, I thought it was, it was too long. I mean, you know, that's okay. It's a state in the bleed, you know, obvious, isn't it? I mean, I thought it was okay. I mean, I think it'd have been like 17, 18 minutes. It would have been better received than it was. I mean, I like the story they told. We knew what the story was going to be before the bell rang. We'd known for ages. Nakum tagging Rollins is back and Rollins selling it. And you know, they did a lot of stuff outside the ring. And there was, I mean, I thought the match actually was was actually pretty good in terms of the execution and the story and the building, everything. But I think they were out there too long. And the other problem they had was that no one believed that Nakamura was going to win. You know, and that was another thing that Raquel Rodriguez, that was something else that was holding her back. I just don't think people believed in her title quest. I think most of it was no way to feel like Raquel's not being rear-ripped. And when people think that way, it's very difficult to convince them otherwise, isn't it? You know what I mean? When it's so obvious who's going to win, you're swimming upstream from the off. So yeah, I mean, the the obstacle here of, okay, I mean, this match that lasted on 25 minutes, I don't understand that at all Kenny. But it was, yeah, it was okay. And you know, Nakamura, you know, feels like he means more than he has in a very long time. And he feels like a productive member of the roster again. Somebody wasn't a total waste. But yeah, if they, when they built that rematch, which they're obviously going to do, please keep it under 20 minutes. Yeah, the rematch is coming and hopefully it'll be under 20 minutes. And the overall I thought payback was an okay show. I think it has, for me, anyway, I don't want to speak for you. I think it has ended W's streak of like amazing paper views or PLEs. But it was still, there was decent stuff on it. But I think this was just one that, you know, there was, I mean, if somebody said to me, what do I need to see? I would just say the street flight and they will put out really. Yes. I agree. So, but yeah, I thought it was okay, overall. Yeah, I thought it was, I thought it was a good show. But I mean, the standards that they've set this year have been so high. This was definitely below the, you know, what we expect from WWE or have, have come to expect from WWE in 2023. But I think going into it, we didn't think it was going to be anything more than it was. I actually think the show was better than I thought it would be. So it was a pleasant surprise to me. I think overall. Well, I think before we go, you can get full EW all out review coverage on Patreon with myself, Sonja and Robert, we're recording a big podcast tonight about that. So you'll get the full Shabbang in there. But before that, I did, I know you've had a chance to watch, watch something. And I was wondering, what were your things that stuck out to you from all the, either good or bad that were worth just a mention before we go? Well, I know Kenny, what the highlight of the show was for you. Yeah. I mean, you haven't said this to me, but I know. Okay. DJ Perry, the former Lana Mixer AEW debut. And she came out, you know, June, you know, to get to Miro, and she wanted to sell so much that she just thought she'd take leave out in the audience before she came down to the ring. Because she bumped into Jeff Hardy. This is what powerhouse Hobbs is beating up a Yeah. It's like when Jeff Hardy made his debut for the UW and he, you know, came out to save Matt and he stopped and did his, you know, wacky poses. And then ran that thing and said, what are you doing? Oh, God. I mean, but then you know what, it's very CJ Perry, isn't it? You know, yes. Of course it is. Of course it is. So she's turned up at last. People have been wondering for a very long time when she was going to join AEW. And I don't know whether she's going to be making any further appearances, but she made an appearance that all out. Um, well, I mean, I, I enjoyed a lot of the show. I mean, I really, you know, congrats. I said that if Kenny Omega put, uh, uh, yeah, yeah, to Keshtail over which he did do. I mean, I thought that was very well done that match. You know, I mean, I just thought that was one of the best things on the show because the outcome was so decisive. Omega did the job. I didn't think he would lose like that, especially after the, you know, fluke roll-up finish at Wembley Stadium. But this was a clean, decisive, you know, constructive win for Tech to Keshtail. So yeah, I was very pleased to see that. I thought John Moxley versus Orange Cassidy was the best Moxley match I've seen in, I don't know how long. I mean, that could have been the best Moxley match I've seen in years. So I thought it just felt like a serious match with selling and it flowed and made sense and wasn't just filled with like gimmicks and, you know, big moves that people kicked out of unnecessarily. Um, oh, so it was Cassidy bled, not Moxley. So that was a pleasant surprise. Obviously, it wasn't pleasant for Cassidy. You know, it was something different at least. Um, so Moxley won the international title there and, um, your big, um, big hand for Cassidy afterwards. I mean, he really, um, sucked up the cheers and the audience really gave him a lot of respect afterwards. So that was really nice to see. I'm not a huge fan of the Cassidy character, but he's a very consistent performer in the ring. And, um, I think he's done very well in AEW and much better than I thought he would do. And, um, you know, just that silly comedy stuff. A lot of people don't like that. I'm not really huge fan of it either, but it doesn't bother me as much as I know it bothers some people. Yeah. So I thought, so I thought that was well done. Um, Danielson versus Ricky Stax. Um, I mean, that was a tough match for Danielson. He bled. I mean, I mean, Stax lost. He passed out. So I mean, they really, I thought they really protected Stax on the finish. You know, I think Stax has done well this year. I thought the CM Punk feud was a real career enhancer for him. And I think he'll probably benefit from this as well, even though he lost. Um, I thought to get also, also, also, also good for him that on the, um, the, the, the post show scrum that Danielson had sort of said that like for his schedule, it's better for him to work Saturdays than Wednesdays. So, you know, his TV matches that he's going to have are, are mainly going to be on collision whenever he has them. So that's going to be good for somebody like he starts because they could visit this down the road if they want to. Yes, absolutely. Um, I think Chris Statlander versus Ruby Soho, Dr. Geathers got really any staff power, but I thought the match was, was certainly towards the end. It seemed very solid. Um, well put together. Um, I mean, apart from, well, the finish was kind of confusing with Saraya distracting the referee and then Tony Stormact interrationally, you know, Statlander scored the pin. But I thought proud to that. I thought Statland Statlander and Soho, you know, did themselves proud there. Um, Luchasaurus beat Darby Allen. That was probably the only result I objected to was, um, Luchasaurus retaining against Alan. And we had, um, you know, we had like a interference, of course, before the finish. So that was about the only match that I didn't really like. But I think overall, I thought it was a good show. That may be the most praised AEW show you've ever given on this podcast. So, there you go. Yes, sir. Yes, I think you're probably right. And, um, oh, so I just want to mention FTR of the Young Box versus the Guns, JYJs Robinson, each time on Nick Jackson entered the rig, they were booed out of the building. Oh, man, that was hilarious. That amused me. That did amused me greatly. I mean, there was a lot of this match. It seemed like the audience were kind of ignoring the match and fans were amusing themselves with certain chance. I'm not imagining thinking because I'm okay. No, no, no, you're not. You're not. And the thing is that there is this kind of discourse that, and I just want to say this quite like before we go, but like, um, there's this discourse at the moment about, because all it was, was a really good show. It was a really good show. They told it at the bag. It was very impressive. The, the build to it and the booking of the matches was bad. And I think that the, there has to be this kind of defensive conversation of, kind of Anthony Bowen's and John Silver and a few other EW wrestlers have kind of spoken out. And I get it from their point of view because they're the wrestlers and they're there, they're definitely can't entertain us when we're watching these shows. And the, and the, and the team players, this goes, you know, it's a collective responsibility here. If you, EW, you should be saying those things. You are not an objective observer. You are a member of the squad and it's your job to put the company over in public. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think there's this thing where like some people who, who, who really just think that EW did no wrong, are sort of saying, well, you know, look, look, they, they, they proved that, you know, they delivered on the, on the night. It's, yeah, but delivering on the night is different from giving a good build and telling a story that, that goes over multiple paid producers or PLEs or whatever it is. And, you know, I, I, I, I always think, but wrestling with 31 is the, as the prime example of WWE is a horribly built up show. Most of the big matches were really badly built. But on the night, it really delivered, but you can't do that all the time because if you do eventually, you're going to be caught on to it. So, and I've even seen people, you know, commentators like Michael Cydrick at what culture's an example? Who are saying, who are saying the same? Who are going, look, I, I, you know, and he got a thing where he just wrote, here's five matches. It's not hard to book five matches that will be good on the night. That, that's different from booking. Booking is different for a, a promotion when you've got sexers weekly TV to just doing something on the night and making people happy. So, I think that's what that's part of the discourse that's going on, which I think is important, but I think they definitely delivered on the show. And yeah, I think for the most part of the results were right. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, there was, there was, I mean, we had the, I mean, there was quite a lot of blood. I think they go totally over the top on the blood in AEW, but there wasn't too many gimmicky matches here. I mean, we have the strap match. But I mean, you know, most of the rest of the show, it was kind of straight matches. And I just think a lot of time you've got a lot of excess in AEW. I think I just find it draining and I just feel like, you know, don't just don't do all those like stunts in match number one on the pre show. It's like, you don't need that. You know, you're burning the crowd out. It's like, you'll save that for matches further up on matches, which really need it. Don't do it just because you can. You know what I mean? So I felt like this was more of a streamlined show, which showed more booking discipline than we normally get from AEW. So, you know, props to them for that. You know, I think the show deserves praise for sure. But I agree with you all about all the things you just said about not, you know, this was not very well promoted because, of course, they had the Wembley show the previous weekend. I mean, I hope they don't do the same thing next year, obviously, the playing Wembley next year. But you don't need to run a big show the following weekend in the States. I mean, why would you do that to yourself? I have no idea. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, it's just a headache for you to do because even the best book of all time, whoever you think that is, if you gave that answer right, here's what you need to do. It's like, that's a tough gig to try and do that. I mean, it's just overkill, isn't it? It's just over saturation. They're already putting out a lot of TV each week as we know, and it's just too much product and light, you know, just do the Wembley show. You don't need to do the all-in, you don't need to do the all-out as well. We'll see what they do, but that's all the time we've got for today. We'll be back on Thursday to talk about Raw, talk about all the news. It's going on in wrestling. There'll be lots to discuss. You can, of course, pick up the new issue of the magazine. Issue 36 with Jato, so in the cover, at www.insiderotesmagazine.com. We'll grow a bit hard at work in the next issue, so we'll have more about that in the next couple of weeks. Be a friend. I hope that you enjoy your day, and hopefully on Thursday we'll have some, maybe some news we can tell people. We don't want to tell them today. Yes, we shall see. All I can say, folks, is think about F-Martin at 10 p.m. Greenwich Mean Time tonight. Yes, let's keep those fingers crossed. Bare a thought. So thank you for all your support, everybody. Thanks for listening, and we'll talk to you soon.