Hello and welcome to episode 2-3-4 of Late Night Linux recorded on the 19th of June, 2023.
I'm Jauru and with me are Fanon.
Well, do you all return to see?
Crayon.
Hello.
And who?
Party time.
I'm not even going to go into what those two mean because I think it might be offensive.
No, I'm going to see Iron Maiden on Saturday, so rock.
And Boris Johnson's got screwed for having a party.
Hooray!
OK, you win.
Anyway, let's not go into politics.
Let's do some news.
Victory, New Jersey Court rules police must give defendant the facial recognition algorithms used to identify him.
So this is someone who they're trying to do for armed robbery and they had a facial recognition possible match.
And the court has said, no, look, you've got to show exactly how this software works because it's not on.
Fanon, this is something you've mowned about before, I think.
Well, I guess I didn't complain about this, too, but also it was things like forensic software for recovering stuff off hard drives and things like that.
If you're going to use any of this type of stuff, I think it's only fair that the procedures and methods that are used are open because otherwise.
Sure, could we do an innocent and we know historically how terrible it is, especially if you happen to be just not a white dude, essentially.
I try to say a cap, Fanon.
I am not trying to say that. No, I have to think about it again for a second. What did that mean again?
I'm heartened that the US courts thought this way because if, in my opinion, if there was a place where this would just become like open and shut cases,
it would be the American legal system where computers as it was you off you go to be locked up indefinitely.
So I'm glad that they're pushing back against this.
I hope that this sends a message to the rest of the world saying you can't just stick computers in charge of making these sorts of decisions without explaining it.
I do wonder, however, what will happen with that source code?
How long will it be between assuming they do open source it or at least hand the code over
between that and when somebody has had time to review it and understand how it works and come to a conclusion with that could be years, right?
It could be and it depends on the data sets they used and everything because you have to assume this is machine learning based.
So yeah, it's it's probably not going to be as useful as we would hope.
But it is still a good two fingers up at proprietary software taking people's liberty away from them.
And I think the big thing with us lot is precedent, isn't it?
So if you have a precedent for this, then it means future things are going to be like that too.
And I think that's only a good thing because if there's not a person involved that can be blamed for doing something right or wrong,
then you know, I don't think a computer should be doing the deciding either unless it's been scrutinized and can be verified as well.
The only other interesting thing I think it brings up is how deep do we go at this?
I mean, cameras in phones are using AI all over the place as we discovered last week to our surprise.
Joe, and yeah, I just like is firmer from a camera going to start being part of this as well.
Like it's I wonder how deep it will actually go.
Is the actual picture the thing you're taking a representation of?
I thought this kind of stuff years and I'm amazed that hasn't been more challenges with digital photos and videos in court
because in theory, all of it could be faked even before machine learning made it possible to generate it.
Where's it going to end?
I imagine it'll end with the fact that there'll be some it'll be too complicated to present the algorithms in court
and everyone I accept it and they'll have to cynically they'll just have to say,
well, if you've got, you know, if you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear, nothing to see here, move on.
I don't think it's the case of presenting it in court though, is it?
It's more presenting it to the defense law firm and allowing them to have time before it actually gets to court to examine the evidence.
Yeah, that's true. That's a good point.
But then big silicone, they can dock to what they present.
Who's to say what it was? I mean, that's another problem with it being proprietary.
An interesting tip, but I don't know if it's still true, but I think it is.
So the Irish Air Corps, when they play it on the maritime patrol missions,
they actually use an analog camera with a GPS timestamp on it.
And with the lat long time of day, et cetera, for taking photographs of vessels that are illegally fishing or whatever.
So it eliminates that digital, what would the term be?
Minipulation.
Thank you. That's a good one.
I mean, it's not obviously perfect, but it's an off lot less likely that you're able to doctor a photographic film
than you are unless you took a picture, a photo of the screen.
I see where it might be going wrong.
Yeah, and you can mess with the negatives and all the rest of it.
So it's not necessarily full proof.
It comes back to that question, what is a photo?
It used to be a simple question, whereas now it's become more and more complicated.
Especially on your phone. Indeed, yes.
And if we can do things like this to make it more expensive for people to defend the algorithms they're using,
maybe they will default to open source algorithms that they don't have to worry about,
you know, just focus on catching the people that they need to.
Yeah, I mean, facial recognition generally is just really dodgy, isn't it?
It's just a historically not being very accurate and particularly biased,
especially against certain groups of people.
Facial recognition is just a dystopian nightmare that needs to go away.
I think it's going to be the opposite, though. It's just going to become more and more.
If it isn't already without us knowing, it's just going to become the default for everything.
We'll be tracked everywhere.
Well, we already are in this country, aren't we?
Yeah. So, you know, as much as we dislike it, it's just with us.
And I'm sure that the algorithms will become very good,
because they'll be combined with lots of other data that they have.
Well, yeah, exactly. They'll be able to combine camera footage with facial recognition.
With phone data.
With phone data and financial transaction data.
I mean, this is why I'm terrified of single bank digital currencies.
If cash goes away, then you've got...
It's not even state surveillance, is it, because they've contracted all out to private companies.
And you've just got corporate surveillance on a national and international scale, potentially.
Yeah, but our opinions will, unfortunately, just be literally grandfathered out of the system
and a new generation will just learn to live with this as if it's always been normal.
And that'll be the future.
I don't know. There's enough young people listening to us that I have enough hope
that they'll do something. There'll be some underground trade.
It'll be like a diminution, man.
Like we've done anything. Like we've been able to change anything.
Yeah, I know. We've just sat back and watched it all happen, aren't we?
Well, what can you do? I mean, I think doing podcasts like this
and all of our involvement in open source and saying committed to open source does help.
But, you know, we're at such a minority.
People's, like, we come up time and time again.
Nobody really knows about open source and then it's in the wider community outside our bubble.
Yeah, but then you've got fail-in brainwashing his boy.
The next generation.
I'm sorry. I shouldn't have turned this into a negative story.
It isn't a negative story. It's good news. Let's hope it continues.
This podcast is bought to by Clearview and the Wayland Yutani Corporation.
Well, fail-in, I couldn't resist putting this into troll you.
Thunderbird for Android slash K9 mail.
May 2023 progress report.
Good.
Do you still use K9 mail then?
I do, yeah.
There was too much effort involved and moving to that other one.
What was it? Fair mail or something like that?
No, I stuck with it. I knew they'd be back.
And, yeah, I just didn't think they'd be back like this.
Well, to start with, they've been concentrating on the first screen,
the initial account setup UI.
And it looks pretty nice to me.
Cool. Yeah, I think I won't ever use again, probably,
because I've already got mine set up and I probably never moved from that config file.
I just moved it to my phone and different phones like I did previously.
But anyway, that's fine.
I'll waste it on things I'm not using. That's cool.
Oh, come on.
It's pretty bloody important to get the onboarding experience for new users sorted out.
Sure.
Don't be so entitled as an existing user.
You know, you've got to attract new users for it to flourish, haven't you?
This is like your insurance company,
given new people the deal, but not you who's been there for years.
Years, I tell you.
Well, I think you're just bitter.
I think this is going to be good.
I think Thunderbird's stewardship of K9 is going to be great.
The only thing I'm happy with so far is,
in fact, they're getting a security audit that they've paid for on it.
And I think that's a good thing. I'm all for that.
Well, they've had the security audit and it went well and they found a few minor things
and they've fixed them.
And the final report should be ready soon.
They say on this blog post.
So, yeah, that is immediately a great thing that's happened for all users.
Good.
Yeah. So it's about time you started being positive about this.
I'm very positive about it.
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Onto a bit of admin then.
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Go on then, let's talk about Reddit and the protests and everything
and I hate Reddit and I feel so vindicated by this whole thing.
But it feels like this is important to not necessarily latenightlinux.com source,
but the tech scene generally.
Do any of you care about this?
Do any of you regularly visit Reddit? Let's start with that.
I tend to come across it by virtue of searching for things
and then finding people talking about whatever it is that I'm certain you will on Reddit
and then spend a few minutes going through the comments only to find them entirely useless
and wishing that I'd never bothered.
It seems to be an massively popular place to discuss pretty much everything
and I like the fact that there is a gathering place to do that,
somewhere that's indexed and that you can find stuff.
The community is the community, right?
You're always going to get bellends and people who are there to troll
as well as people who genuinely want to help and who are just simply misinformed.
But the Reddit community by virtue of being so popular
seems to have more than its fair share of idiots.
And so, yeah, I don't use it as a resource for learning things anymore,
but there's the occasional meme on there which I quite like.
Well, the background to this is that Reddit announced changes
to their pricing structure with the API.
And you had some quite big third-party Reddit apps,
like Apollo, which is an iOS one, I think,
which said it would cost them $20 million a year
so they're basically having to shut down.
And so, loads of people got up in arms about this
and decided to have a two-day blackout as they called it,
where they set the subreddits to private
and some have continued indefinitely
because the boss of Reddit has just really made an ask of himself.
He's just said all sorts of shit they shouldn't have.
And it's just compounded the situation.
Some subreddits have reopened some haven't
and it's all just a bit of a controversy and a bit of a drama.
But the big thing here is that it shows that ultimately,
if you give your data away and your data can be your posts on Reddit
or your posts on Twitter, one day you will regret it
if it is not an open platform, a truly open platform.
And I remember I was talking about how Reddit went
close source originally, they were open source,
but then they sort of eventually stopped updating that
and kind of forked off in their own proprietary way.
But if you give a company all your data,
you're going to regret it one day.
It's the take-home message here.
Yes, and it seems to keep happening.
I do use Reddit, not obsessively,
but it's the end of a lot of links from Google searches now broken.
And there are a few subreddits that are super niche
that you can't really find anyone talking about the same things
and you're also on the internet.
It's synthesizers in that.
It is synthesizers, definitely.
Of course it is.
The synthesizers have read it, it's too broad.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Specifically like our slash polyphonic aftertouch.
Yes, yeah, MPE, that's a good one.
But it's a problem that we keep having
and it's a problem that it's always going to happen
because these companies basically get greedy.
It's the threat of an IPO coming to Reddit
that's maybe making them behave in this way.
And they don't give a shit about life after the IPO,
only in getting rich off the back of it.
And the weird thing is that maybe it's different from Twitter,
but with this kind of thing,
there was a user network of groups and it was using it.
A bit like IRC before Slack.
Sometimes the technology has been there for a long time.
And we've just never been able to turn it into something
for the modern web.
And I think until we solve those problems
and that's something that Master Donnis
is semi-solving for Twitter,
we're going to have these problems keep coming up time again.
Well, there is Lemmy, which is an open source Reddit alternative.
So the tools are there,
but they're not as mature as Reddit was,
and they don't have the network effect.
But I think that's what we're finding out, isn't it?
With first Twitter and now Reddit
and maybe the same thing will happen
with YouTube at some point.
I don't know, maybe that's too big to fail.
We're finding out that you can't just rely on these companies
to not be showers of bastards
because they all will turn out to be
because that's just how it goes.
You just grow and grow and grow and grow and then IPO.
And the only way to do that
is by disrespecting your users seemingly.
There's that famous quote which I've seen attributed to Tim O'Reilly.
If you're not paying for the product,
then you're not a customer, you are the product being sold.
And that has been true for a long long time
and it continues to be true.
But the fundamental problem is that people don't like paying money for something
and I think that that's the hill that we've got to get over
is to be able to find a way to provide a free service,
not expect people to put their hands in their pockets,
and not try and sell their data via adverts.
And we've talked about this topic many times.
There isn't a really good answer, I don't think.
Well, there absolutely isn't an answer that involves people not having to pay
because someone has to pay.
I'm not sure if I'm the only person who thinks this might actually be a slightly good thing.
A, because it was, well, not exclusively,
but there to try and stop the AI stuff learning from Reddit,
which I think lull, haha, sucks to be you guys.
And B, is this a perfect lesson for people to actually finally maybe realize
that these things shouldn't be free
if they're useful and maybe the AI could fund the federated system.
Much like some of the masculine instances are.
I don't know whether that's just foolish,
but it would be nice that people realize the value of the things they're doing
and is musk and what's his name, Steve Huffman or whatever's name is.
Is there quadrupling down on being arseholes?
Actually, a good thing.
And are we going to actually learn finally, maybe?
I hate to sound like Brian, but no.
People still use Twitter.
I know.
I like it, but still.
I know our crowd doesn't generally,
but I don't think Twitter usage has really dropped massively, has it?
And I don't think Reddit use will drop massively either.
I think some people will be pissed off
and some of the more technical subreddits
and the more Linuxy up and saucy ones
will probably migrate elsewhere.
But ultimately, normal people will just stay with the big companies
and just suck it up.
Because I've said this many times before,
most people want shit for free.
They want shit to be good and free and fast and private.
And they just want it all, don't they?
And the one thing that people seem to be willing to pay with is their data.
We've seen it time and time and time again.
That's how Google and Facebook and all the big companies, Amazon,
all the rest of it.
That's how they manage to keep going.
That's why even I will use Uber occasionally.
Even though they are a proper shower of bastards.
But I'll keep using it because it's cheap and convenient.
And Amazon Prime as well.
I mean, I'm not paying for it.
I use my brothers, isn't it?
Because we're dodgy, but I still buy stuff from there all the time
because I want shit the next day.
Thank you very much.
And this will keep happening.
I mean, it happened with IMDB,
which was all user-contributed content.
It's almost the same thing that happened there.
And it just becomes the modern web.
Those of us who care about it don't have enough inertia to be able to change anything.
We may be able to have even smaller groups of us chatting in some, you know, on use net.
But it's not going to change anything about how things develop.
And we didn't learn from that, did we?
And we didn't learn from Twitter and we're not going to learn from Reddit.
I don't know.
Maybe the right people that I care about are going to learn.
And maybe tough luck for other normals.
Well, yeah.
I do think that things are starting to splinter now.
I've seen talk on Mastodon of like, wow, this is like a real moment.
Like Mastodon's really going well.
And it is.
As far as I'm concerned, I hardly look at Twitter anymore.
I certainly don't post there anymore.
And yeah, Mastodon is great.
The Fed of Versus is great.
But that's not normal people, is it?
We are the tech elite now.
And honestly, that's fine by me.
There'll be a schism in the internet.
And in 10 years' time, 52% of the internet will vote to make it own by Facebook.
Yeah, exactly.
Bastards.
They've decided, Graham.
It's the people.
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So Google Domains is shutting down and they've sold all the customers to Squarespace.
Will, I think you're affected by this only.
Yeah, I had a whole bunch of domains registered at Google because I found Google Domains to be very straightforward.
They didn't ask for a whole load of information, presumably, because they already had it.
But they didn't ask you to fill out a whole load of forms you could just go in there.
You could buy a domain easily.
It would add it to one centralized account.
They didn't make a massive markup.
They automatically renewed and they felt secure and that you weren't going to get your very precious domain stolen from you
because they'd forgotten to lock down something and somebody had gone in and stolen the database and nicked all your domains.
So I was quite happy there.
It ticked along and renewed regularly.
And then, like, completely out of the blue, I heard by failing sharing a news link.
I still haven't had official word from Google.
I have read up on it.
Oh, really?
Yeah, nothing. No formal email from Google.
And so, yeah, there's no way that I want my domains to Squarespace.
I've never used them. I have no opinion other than I bet they're shit.
You wouldn't take my advice and go to Namecheap.
I don't know why promoting things that are not paying us.
But I've been using Namecheap for years and it's absolutely fine.
I think a company that is willing to name itself Namecheap has no respect for their own business and they shouldn't be allowed my money.
Should they be called Name Affordable instead?
World of Names or Name World.
What about Rhine DNS?
Shit, I should fucking bookmark that right now.
I'm going to buy the domain.
Fucking Michael Lee, he's already knocking on my window here.
You want me money?
So, really, the name was enough to put you off?
Yeah.
That tells me that their marketing team or the founder of that company just woke up one morning and said,
I have domains that'll do.
What should we call ourselves?
We want to sell cheap domain names, Namecheap.
And the meeting was over and they never, ever went back to revisit that decision.
It's funny how people make decisions about services they use.
Because I was like, ah, Namecheap, that sounds cheap.
I'm definitely going to use that there.
Yeah, it seems like we may be a different class of gentleman.
Well, so the upshot of this is that me and presumably a whole bunch of other people are looking for alternative providers.
I asked around a few people at work and the answer that came up was Cloudflare.
And so I have started trying to move some names over.
I'm going to start with my low value ones before I do the really important ones like muckyjpegs.com.
Yeah.
If it works, then that's probably where I will go.
But I would like to hear feedback from people to say, no, use this other thing.
But I don't want it to be like fly by night.
So I want there to be a big corporate entity behind it who can afford to have a security team.
Because if I lose access to my domains, like I've lost a lot of important stuff there.
Oh, VH.
Well, Cloudflare are a shower of bastards.
I don't remember the Kiwi farm thing.
I was talking to someone about this today.
Oh, God.
Yeah.
About how, for ages, they refuse to shut down Kiwi farms, which was just the worst, just troll forum who like drove people.
Cloudflare are bastards.
That's all you need to know.
And I would rather use Tesco value name cheap than fucking Cloudflare quite frankly.
Gotta say I agree with that too.
Because there's a conspiracy lunatic who has done some horrific harassment over here allegedly just far right lunacy.
And you know what?
They were happy to protect her.
Oh, free speech.
Fuck off.
Yeah, exactly.
The sort of free speech, absolutist types and libertarian, whatever you want to call it.
Yeah.
But they tell you if you said it and perhaps you call her, they'd be right down your like in a ton of bricks though.
That's the thing.
It's like, yeah.
Get lost.
Right.
Seriously, fuck Cloudflare, man.
Just fuck him.
Like, no way.
It would I advise.
But you know, it's easy.
It's cheap.
And you do what you like.
But just seriously, name cheap.
They're good.
Like, Gandy was the go to, but then they got sold recently.
Didn't they?
I can't remember who they got sold to.
That's how people are looking to migrate from them.
Well, I'm poking around the OVH website now.
And it looks pretty good.
So that is now top of my list.
Oh, they are.
Except when World Day, it's not as right and fire.
But they learned their lesson.
Wood is flammable.
No wooden floors and ceilings in the container farm.
Okay, then.
Yeah.
A lot of people lost quite a lot of data.
But you could argue that they should have had an offsite backups and stuff.
Yeah, I didn't.
So I was fine.
I don't care.
I learned by their lesson.
Oh, yeah.
Fucking backups.
Fucking backups.
Quick.
And I'm just kicking our sink off here.
Don't mind me.
But once again, this is just Google doing a Google.
Isn't it?
Like, this seemed like a relatively safe bet.
Like, say you have the, what do they call?
Oh, God, is it workspace now?
It was like, she helps with business and they keep renaming it.
They, you know, the drive and docs and email and all that stuff.
That seems like a fairly safe bet.
But then so did this.
I mean, you really just cannot trust Google to do anything and keep doing it for more
than a few years now.
It's probably the reason why you haven't got your notification.
Because the team who's done that, I was asked before that happened.
Yeah.
Or maybe Gmail marked it as spam.
Couple of KDE things.
Fail him.
I don't know.
I told you to stop doing KDE corner, but you've snarking a couple of things.
It's not a corner.
It's a brick.
I don't know.
Trunking or something.
There you go.
It's more of an arch.
No, it's a solid brick in the wall that is this episode.
Anyway, Kaden Live News and fundraising report.
Yeah, that was quite cool.
Because it's a quarterly report they do.
And from mid to mid February, they had 677 donations.
23,17 euro.
Wow.
But a thousand of that is for processing fees and they give about 20% to KDE for hosting and
Siss admin and stuff.
So that leaves about 17,600 for actually paying for developers to do stuff.
And they've already used three thousand that I already, and that was to get nested timelines
done with one developer.
And next up, they already have planned out things for improving the effects workflow and
performance and all that stuff.
So I just think it's nice to be able to see an actual funded project do well from getting
actual money in and doing things with it.
So it's kind of cool.
Surely this should be investing in AI and stuff like Mizzilitas.
Oh, I've done it.
I've done it.
Oh, I've mentioned it.
Yeah.
Anyway, this week in KDE, major plumbing work in Plasma 6.
So nice being at it again.
He has, yeah.
And it's cool to see it progressing along.
And they've got a new porting guide for things like the plasmoids and things.
I've noticed I have a few that I don't know whether they're maintained anymore.
And I'm looking at the docs to see.
Is there anything I could actually help out with?
Because they're quite handy.
It's the WebView one, which is quite useful for making a plasmoid out of essentially a
website, which I'll use like about five or six of them.
But they've got a cool tracking status page for the six stuff.
And then the any of the QT six bugs, they've got nice links to all of those for anybody
can get involved.
It's really cool.
And they've also been doing a bit of work on getting the KDE four pages.
That's F-O-R, not the number.
So like for developers, for educators and things like that.
And they've got a new homepage for that.
So that's quite cool to see those all linked together.
And just because I know that Wayland is going to be really maybe even the default for QT
six.
I've switched to about two weeks ago, maybe, and so far, relatively so good.
A few niggles here and there, but I've not really taken out what they are, but yeah,
Wayland.
Yay.
It's the future.
Apparently so.
It's very much the present.
If you've been using GNOME for any sort of period of time.
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Now I know some people are not going to be over the moon about this, but my feeling is
that people generally would prefer that we kept going with these shows than not.
To be clear, if you are on Patreon and getting an ad rep free RSS feed, you will not be impacted
by this at all.
You'll continue to get totally ad free with none of this stuff.
It's only the people listening for free.
Now we've not actually made this change yet and I wanted to give people an adequate
heads up about it and I also wanted to make it clear that times are not like super desperate.
I'm not going to not pay my rent and stuff, you know, it's not like that.
It's just thinking more long term here and also when it comes to the patrons, I mean
you are the people making this possible.
It wouldn't be possible without the patrons.
That's just a fact.
The ads are what makes it possible for me at least to do this full time and not have to
get another job.
Now I could go and get another job really easily that would pay quite well but I would
prefer to do this.
This is much more fun.
So I really cannot stress how much we appreciate the patrons and if you are in a position
to join those people, then please do.
But if you're not in a position, then that's fine too.
But you will have some of these ads probably at some point fairly soon.
So what do you all think about this then?
Well, I think for a lot of stuff, I listen to that isn't even phospholated stuff like
there might be Tom Scott or God knows some murder podcast or, you know, I get ads on
that and I don't mind.
I'm happy because I get a podcast I enjoy and I'm prepared to listen to the ads and it
seems a small trade off to pay.
I mean, yeah, you could pay for subscription and as you say, the patron people, it's fantastic
what they do.
You know, I think the quality of the podcast would suffer maybe if you weren't able to
do this full time.
So I think it's great that we're able to do that.
Yeah, I think so too.
I think, you know, you create an incredibly professional product, Joe and one of the downsides
from it being so professional is that people perhaps assume that it's going to be here
forever and that they don't need to worry necessarily about how it's funded.
It's the same when we did the magazines, you know, you create a professional product.
No, with the magazines, I really wish we'd been more like this to ensure the survival
of the magazine and people are accepting of it, but it's the reality of the situation
and I think you're doing the right thing.
Yeah, I wish you'd got me involved, man.
I wish you'd just monetize your podcast basically because that was the thing that people
loved about you.
They loved the magazine as well, but man, I love that podcast.
I wish you'd get, but we're not going to do a, you know, reunion special of it.
Well, it's been 10 years this year since we left the next format and saw to the magazine,
so I don't know, maybe.
So look, hopefully this is not going to be a big deal.
If it's a massive deal, get in touch with us and let us know why it's a big deal to
you.
You've already heard ads for things that are not that related to the show, but may well
be related to the listenership of the show, you know, the food, stuff and whatnot.
And that's good as far as I'm concerned, because look, would you rather we have ads for
stuff that is directly related to what we're talking about, which may influence our opinions
even subconsciously, or would you rather have ads for mattresses and stuff, which you
got nothing to do with the stuff that we're actually talking about?
It seems like a no brainer to me.
I think that's an interesting, difficult trade off to make, like what is it better to
hear adverts for?
And I think you're right.
I think if we continue to be exclusively sponsored by technology related firms, at some point,
we're going to have to temper our swearing because we might upset one of the sponsors this
way.
We can say what the fact we like.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And hopefully it's not going to be all these programmatic ads and I sort of didn't really
explain what that is.
It means ads read by someone that's not me, basically.
I am going to do my best to try and keep selling ads to companies that will want me to read
it out because that's more valuable to everyone involved.
But there will be at least some of these programmatic ads as the call-on, which are, I mean,
I hope they're professionally produced and we do have some say we can opt out of certain
categories.
And oh man, the list that I saw, there was some quite funny categories on there, which
I don't even want to go into here.
I mean, it was medical stuff and I'll be opting out of some of that, put it that way.
And gambling and stuff like that.
And I think one of them might even be in THC products and stuff, it's like, no, I'm
going to opt out of that.
So we do have some say in it, but it will also continue to be the classic me read, okay,
this episode is sponsored by et cetera.
So anyway, I just wanted to give people a heads up and give you a chance to have your
say on that.
So show at latenightlinux.com if you've got strong feelings either way on it.
And like I said, this is not going to affect the people who are on the ad free tears on
Patreon.
They will hear this about it and then never know whether it happened or not because
they don't hear any adverts ever, except for one time I fucked up and it was in there
for about 12 hours, one ad, but then I cut that out and apologized to everyone.
So that was my mistake and it what happened again, honest, it was an artisanal mistake
though.
So that's good.
Yeah, it was an artisanal six or seven cans of cider mistake, I think.
Right, well, we'll put it out of here then.
We'll be back next week when we'll have some discoveries probably and who knows what
else.
But until then, I've been John.
I've been Phantom.
I've been Graham and I've been Will.
See you later.