How Steelers' Plan for Darnell Washington and Pat Freiermuth in 12 Personnel Can Open Up Offense

It's the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. There's a lot of excitement about the prospect of what Darnell Washington is going to bring to the Steelers offense, not just by himself, but what he can do with Pat Frymuth in the double-pat tight end packages that they can offer. We'll talk about that with a former NFL tight end himself, the man Doran Dickerson. We're going to bring him on, you can hear him on 9 to 3.7 the fan, but he's going to have a lot of perspective on that, how it's worked in the past, and how it can work in the future for the Pittsburgh Steelers. I'm your host, Chris Carter, and this is the Lockdown Steelers Podcast. Let's get into it. You are Lockdown Steelers, your daily Pittsburgh Steelers podcast, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello, and welcome to the Lockdown Steelers podcast. I'm your host, Chris Carter, bringing you your daily dose of all things in the Pittsburgh Steelers. As always, you can find this show on your favorite podcasting app, and especially on YouTube. Like this video if you enjoyed. Subscribe to this YouTube channel to get all of your daily Monday through Friday episodes, as well as our bonus content. We thank you for making us your first listen every day because we're your team every day. In today's episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. BetterHelp connects you with a licensed therapist who can take you on that journey of self discovery from wherever you are. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Lockdown today to get 10% off your first month. And we have a man returning to the show. It's been a minute, but we're happy to have him back. Doran Dickerson, a pitman himself and also a former NFL tight end. You can now hear him on the morning show of 93.7 the fan. Doran, how you been man? Oh, I'm great Chris. Thanks for bringing me on. And I have a little inkling that we're going to talk about my favorite position in all the football. And that is the toughest position, the smartest position, the best athletes. And that is the tight end position. Absolutely. I'm here to talk to you about it. Now, I got to say, when you and I, we were kind of on the same wave late on Twitter leading up to the draft, when Mike Tomman was like, you know, when no more com was going over positions and he was like, you know, corners and edge rushers. And then Mike Tomman says, tight end. And like, we were both like, right there, Doran, Washington, that's him. And we were just both like wondering, would it be there? And then you and I, I saw us both tweeting during the draft, like, are you watching it still there? It can happen. And then they land him, tell everyone, because I'm just Chris Carter, who I played high school football. I got an academic scholarship, but I stayed off the field because I wasn't trying to get my butt kicked at Cheney University. But this is a man here who played at the collegiate level, who played at the NFL level. Why were you so interested in, and Darnell Washington being a Pittsburgh stealer? Well, just seeing his, his college film and knowing what the offense he came from, and he came from a winning team, you know, two time national championship team, guys around him getting drafted in the first round. So the competition was elite every single day in practice. And what he brings to the table, he brings size and he's six foot seven, 270 pounds. Now, he was, he was regarded as one of the best blockers in college football, but that's not really what intrigued me the most. The most was the fact that he is extremely athletic and he can move pretty well. Four six, four, 40. He had the best short shuttle in the NFL scouting combine. His production was down on paper because on the other side of him, they have the best tight in the country in Bowers, who is a receiving threat. He's going to be a pressure on pick next year. So his production on the stat line was down this year because of Bowers. Now, that doesn't mean that he can't be a factor in the passing game. I just think that they just didn't need him as much of the passing game. So I think he has a lot more to show athletically in the passing game, just as much as he has the show as a blocking tight end. And he refused that together. I mean, you're getting the pick of the litter. I mean, you're getting a Rob Gronkowski type guy who could do both. He can, you know, be in line and block an extra tackle, but also in the red zone. I mean, you have a six foot seven target who can move down the scene, move a move, drag routes who can do all kinds of different things. That just enhances your offense, you know, exponentially. I mean, if you're Kenny Pickett and now you have a big target that you could trust alongside of a guy who's regarded as one of the other best tight ends in the NFL and Pat Fryer move. I mean, all day, I mean, let's go. I mean, how could you not be a fan of that pick? Now, I know he's dealing with a little bit of an injury right now, but he'll get through that, he'll work through that and the NFL trainers will take care of him, make sure he's ready to go when the time is needed. But, you know, whenever I saw his, I saw his name drop and drop and drop, I'm like, all right, the Steelers are going to get a steal here if they do pick him and they picked him in the third round. And I think that they're going to get a steal with that guy. I think so too. I put, I put him as my 26th best player overall on my big board. Like I thought that some team would be really smart to get him in the back half of the first round and wait for that. And yeah, sure, he doesn't have all the tools of a receiving tight end. Like he, you know, he hasn't displayed every catch radius in the world, but the guy has an insane catch radius. We saw it at the combine. We saw it on tape. He can also make people miss with the ball. He can also run people over with the ball with the ball in his hands. And, you know, and again, what we'll get to the, the Gronk aspect of that, because you played with Gronk, you, you saw what that was like in New England. I want to get that perspective a bit later in the second segment, but looking at specifically, Gronk Washington with Pat Fryer move to me, that 12 personnel package idea of, you know, still got Johnson, you still got Pickens on the outside, Nadji in the backfield, Kenny, Kenny at quarterback, but then having those two guys with the size that they have with the athleticism they have to be receivers, but also then to turn into blockers with the new kind of beat them up style. The Steelers are talking about playing that to me speaks a lot about what the Steelers could do and the question marks it can cause for defenses who try to stop them with the different alignments that these type of formations will force upon them. Yeah. I mean, like, what are you going to do? You know, pick your poison. Are you going to, you know, play a nickel defense and, and, and, you know, try to stop the pass and, and then they run the ball at you and you have darner Washington or Pat Fryer move blocking the nickel corner or you're going to, you know, stack the box and then you're going to put those guys down the seam. So it's kind of, you kind of dictate what type of offense you want to run through those guys. If that's going to be your main formation, which I anticipate that'll be one of their top formations, you could just do so much. You could line Pat Fryer move up in the backfield and motion him around and have darner Washington on the line of scrimmage. You could split them up. One guy can even go split outside of George Pickens and be the X in the red zone and be that, that big threat and throwing fade balls. There's a, you can do anything you want out of that two tight end formation and they call it the 12 formation, the, the, the, they call it 12 and you don't have to necessarily call it 12. I mean, Pat Fryer move can essentially be a third wide receiver or even darner Washington could be a third wide receiver. It could be, you know, that, that hawk formations we call the three receivers and one tight end and one back. So, you know, you could just do so much and you could dictate what you want to do on offense. And then this is where somewhat Kenny Pickett comes in the fold. This is where you need to see that jump from year one to year two. Kenny Pickett sees a different, you know, front or different, you know, blitz package that may be, then maybe coming at him and he could check into something or check out of something and not have to worry about falling off, not worrying about the production of the run game falling off, not worrying about the production of the past game falling off because you have a, you know, double threat at tight end on both sides in that formation to have those guys on the field. There's just so much you can do and all in all it, it makes that room one of the best in the NFL, you know, with Connor Hayward and the things he's going to be doing this year as an HVAC, then you resign gentry, he'll be, he could be your third guy. I mean, I'm sure we'll see personnel's and, you know, formations with all four of those guys on the field at once and maybe they're all bunched up tight and then they shift out and they're all playing every wide receiver spot and you could pick your poison from there. So I just think that Matt Canada has really, you know, got himself some weapons and some utilize to be able to expand this offense. He and Kenny Pickett have to be ready to expand it themselves mentally and can he has to do it physically and on the move and awareness wise and knowing what he sees and how to counter that. You can really grasp that through this two tight end look that they potentially might roll out there. Tharnell Washington is a really, really good focal point for this offense this coming year and obviously Pat Fryermouth will do his thing and you're not really putting as much on on us on Pat Fryermouth as they had in the last three years of being that blocking tight end. Now Pat Fryermouth can be his himself, which is, you know, an extended flex tight end or a move guy. Now you don't have the onus of Pat Fryermouth staying still in line with his hand in the dirt and having to reach block a nine technique or a big defensive end like Miles Garrett. So and then, I mean, you could just unravel this whole situation. Now listen to the inside people. You know, I mean, obviously you drafted his buddy too. So yeah, say, you know, who's a young tackle and Broderick Jones to say Broderick Jones, you know, hopefully not. Let's say he's going against a Miles Garrett, which he will and he needs some help. He's going to have his buddy right next to him in certain places be like, Hey, hey, Darnell, you're staying in this play. Yeah, you tap me on the top me on the hip. You're going to stay with me. We're going to double team Miles Garrett. I know him like the, like the back of my hand, we're going to be able to lock that side of the line down. Hey, I need to reach Miles Garrett. Darnell, or Broderick, if I'm Darnell, I need to reach Miles Garrett. I need your help, so I need you to bump my hip to get me on the move so I can get out there and reach him. So those little things that people don't really think about, those really matter. Having your buddy that you played next to a majority of the time in college is going to help both of those guys a lot. So this pick was fantastic. And I think it definitely bolsters this office. I want to get back to the, can you pick an aspect in the third segment of the show? But I want to also get to your experience seeing what the Patriots did in the early 2010s with their tight end combination, because you were in that tight end room and very few people could offer that kind of perspective. You'll get that perspective right here on the lockdown Steelers podcast in just a minute here. But first, before we do any of that, I want to talk to you guys about our great sponsors because this episode is sponsored by Better Health Therapy Online. Better Health Therapy is the best place for you to go whenever you're trying to deal with life's twists and turns and find ways to show up for yourself by getting the help that therapy can offer. And this isn't a crisis line. 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Listen every day to the Locked On NFL podcast. Our expert hosts keep you up to date daily in 30 minutes or less on the latest breaking new training camp fadels and player moves that will affect your favorite NFL team. Available now on YouTube and wherever you listen to podcasts. Part of the Locked On podcast network. Your team every day. Back here on the Locked On Steelers podcast. I'm your host Chris Carter. We're joined today by Doran Dickerson, again former NFL Titan and current analyst slash radio host at 93.7 the fan. You can hear them all the time in the morning show there. Doran though, I want to talk to you about another team that had athletic physical titans like this and two of them with a really good to grow one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play in Tom Brady. When you're talking about the Patriots of the early 2010s, of course you're talking about Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. Now of course Aaron Hernandez turned out to be who he was. That's a whole another story. But on the football field, the threat that they posed by being on the field at the same time, the flexibility that you were talking about, you were in that room. What kind of things did you remember them talking about like, hey, this is what we're going to do weekend and week out to cause problems for different defenses, whether it was one style of defense or a completely different one. Those guys are just so smart, you know, let alone the athletic ability and the size that they both had to play the tight end position. You know, that's one thing, but to be able to run offense at a high level, you have to have high level thinkers on offense. And you know, obviously, Wes Walker was in the fold and Julian Edelman, I mean, we had Otros Cinco at the time, he had veteran players at the wide receiver spot and then he had second year tight ends in Hernandez and Grump whenever I was there. But those guys were just there IQ of football was just through the roof. So you were able to put in different wrinkles whenever everybody's on the same page. You know, one time, you know, you know, Bill O'Brien was the offensive coordinator at the time, you know, he would have Aaron Hernandez in the backfield. And then, you know, you would think, all right, tight into the backfield, he's going to shift back to tight end or he's going to shift to the slot. No, he's just going to stay there. He's going to run the ball. Because he's that athletic and he's smart enough to actually read a zone as a running back, you know, even Grump, you know, let's split him out all the way to the outside and not let him just run a slant, but let him run a slug of those guys. Their football IQ was so great. And they, they fed off of each other in that aspect. And that's what you kind of can expect. Hopefully from Pat Fryer, Muth in Darnell, Washington, Pat Fryer, Muth is obviously going to be like, Hey, you know, whenever I do this, this is kind of how it goes down in the league, you know, and in this game, when I'm playing against this type of defensive event, this is how I approach it, this type of defense, whenever somebody rolls into the box, this is how I approach that. So you can expect a little bit out of that. It's a little bit different dynamic than Hernandez and Gronk, but I would, I would expect more of the running game being a proponent for those two working together very well. And it's like, Hey, pick your boys. And like I said before, you know, you can really keep Darnell Washington in line and then use that fryer, Muth as a wing and let them work together or use Pat Fryer, Muth and have them off the ball and off of Darnell Washington's butt and motion across and then come back and cut across the formation. So there's so many things you could do now, now that you have two guys that can play at that high level, but the only way to be able to expand your offense as the offensive coordinator and as a quarterback and as an offensive line is to have everybody on the same page. And as long as those guys on the same page and they're grasping what's actually going on conceptually, then they'll be able to start inching the way out, inching the way out, inching the way out. Then before you know, you'll have 250 plays in your playbook and it's like pick your poison against the defense. So you want to hopefully, you know, you want to hope for the cerebral nature of Darnell Washington to pick up faster, especially in OTAs and in many cases. So they're able to do that and hit the ground running when the season comes. But you know, like I said, you could just do so many things with two athletic guys like you're going to have with the Steelers and really three and four. You know, you have like a sick Connor Haywood before and in Zach's Zach gentry. So you can do four different, you know, use four guys. You know, it's a really, really good situation for the Steelers to have this many tight ends and for them to do so many different things. Right. And that's the thing like Connor Haywood's not big like the other guys like everyone else is like six, five, six, seven, six, eight and he's like six one or something like that. So he's, I really envision him being more of the H back taking the Derek Watt role as far as being full back play here, play there. But you and I have seen Connor. Hey, what heck, you know, we're both pit grads. We saw what he did the pit in the peach bowl for you. That guy can catch a whole bunch of different passes. He can make plays in different ways. The Steelers saw that last year towards the end of the season when he started to get more snaps. There's there's definitely excitement and ways to use them and you're, you're right. You know, we're talking about triple tight end sets here quadruple tight end sets. If they really wanted to get nasty in the red zone and while keeping bigger guys on the field, you'd also have athletic guys who could go up and get the football or provide challenges in different ways. All those things are very interesting, but it all comes back to something that you said earlier, Matt Canada. Can he bring the creativity that would energize this group that would get them in the positions to maximize their skills or even maximize just put them in the spots where they're going to be difficult to defend where it's going to cause really big headaches for defensive coordinators. Like you said, do I go out and nickel with a smaller corner back? You know, like imagine the Bengals, they still have Mike Hilton. Imagine Mike Hilton trying to stop Darnell Washington, you know, on a, on a deep ball. Like those type of mismatches that you can create or if you run the ball and then Darnell Washington's then blocking Mike Hilton and you're talking about a guy who almost has an entire foot on Mike Hilton size wide. And that's just one corner back we're talking about there. But I think that one of the biggest things can be, can Matt Canada finally deliver? And you, again, as a pitman, you and I both saw what he did for pit many years ago when he had that offense humming and they were able to take down Clemson and the flexibility that it offered. I don't think that Matt Canada, whereas he hasn't done a great job at all, but I don't think that he's had the tools to kind of recreate things, something like that without an offensive line. He had an aged quarterback and then a working quarterback last year. He didn't have as many weapons as he does now, but this to me feels like the year if there's, if you want to see the creativity of Matt Canada wants to prove to, hey, I'm not just some guy up here being a goofball. I do have great ideas. I feel like this is a prime opportunity to show that specifically with the tight end group. Yeah, he has all the tools in the toolbox. You just hope that he doesn't use a hammer to try to hammer screw into the wall. You know, I mean, like that, that's kind of what you saw last year. It's like, why aren't you using a Phillips head and you're using a hammer trying to, you know, nail this screw into the wall? Like, what are you doing? You know, hopefully he makes the right decisions. And I really do think that that is going to predicate and then we touched on a little bit on Kenny Pickett's growth. And this off season being so crucial for Kenny Pickett, finally being under one offense, finally, not just getting thrown into the fire, having a full off season, having a full OTAs, having a full mini camp, having a full training camp of being the guy, I think that that will help with Matt Canada and what he's trying to do with the offense. But all in all, he has all the tools in the toolbox. He just has to use them the right way and where they're supposed to be used. It's kind of like laying the red carpet out and say, hey, man, just don't mess this up. And sometimes with Matt Canada, he just needs to get out of the dang way. You know, he just gets out of the way and has the awareness to get out of the way and let Kenny cook like we saw a couple of times last year. I mean, that's kind of Kenny's game. And I'm sure that the rest of the offensive players will fall in line with that, just let him cook it sometimes. But he has to have the awareness, the in-game awareness to know when that situation is. It's like, hey, let's pick up some momentum. Let's pick up some, some themes of energy. You know, Kenny, you got it this series. You know what? We're going to run two minutes, but you know, it's not two minutes to second quarter and it's the beginning of second quarter. Hey, NASCAR, we're going to run no huddle. Get up to the line. Let me know what you see whenever you come off this series and go out there and try to lead the team and try to figure out your ways to navigate throughout the defense and throughout this series. So he has to have that awareness to know whenever that is, whenever Kenny is on or Kenny's about to be on to give the ball to Kenny and let him cook. Because I think Kenny's going to be at that point in his second year where he's like, hey, you know what? I know what I'm seeing. I know this is a cover three. I've seen in the thousand times. I know what the Ravens are going to do. I know what the Bengals are going to do. If they blitz here, I know this guy's dropping on the other side. So that means I'm going to go here and making sure everybody's on the same page and be able to work that way. That's what I think Matt Canada needs to do alongside of using the right tools in the toolbox. Absolutely. I'm running the same page with you. A lot of this is on Matt Canada, but you also brought up. This is going to be on Kenny too for him to step up. And when you let Kenny cook, he's got to cook. We're going to talk about Kenny Pickett in this third segment here. Get your insights on him and what you want to see from him developing as a second year quarterback in the NFL. We'll get to that in just a second. But first, I want to remind you guys of a campaign that I've embarked up upon here to raise funds for the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation as we work to find a cure for Cystic Fibrosis. 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It all goes to the to the foundation. We're raising money to find a cure for cystic fibrosis. You could you do those both at the same time. You'll get your your your question on the show within a week of your donation guaranteed. We'll be back here with Doran Dickerson. I'm your host Chris Carter on the Lockdown Steelers podcast. Stick with us. Back here on the Lockdown Steelers podcast. I'm your host Chris Carter here with Doran Dickerson for Rinebell Titan and radio host for 93.7 The Fan. Doran, let's talk about Kenny a little bit because you and I are also we were as excited as we were for Donald Washington as a prospective stealer, you know, this draft. The idea of Kenny Pickett being a Pittsburgh stealer as two guys who went to pit that that was awesome. But now the kind of the the honeymoon's over the first year of you know, everyone's just excited for Kenny Pickett. Now he's going to have to prove it. But we've seen him put on five pounds. We've seen him working in the off season calling the off season workout, workout meetings with the rest of the team, getting the guys together in different parts of the country. What are the biggest what's the biggest thing if you were to pinpoint me one or two things that you want to see Kenny Pickett take to the next step of his NFL career in knowing that it's just year two and this still isn't going to be who he projects to be to to be be at his full potential. And I think that's really what it comes down to and not having to force things, not having to feel the pressure of making every single play. And it Kenny did that last year with that was rookie mistakes, but there were there was a point in the season where Mitch Travisky got called back in and I forget who was it against. I forget who was against, but he was forcing them all over the field through a bunch of interceptions. That's where the dolphins. Yes. And that's where that's where Kenny Pickett absolutely has to put into the backseat like that should never happen again. Those decisions that he made last year at times, those are rookie decisions and this decisions he has to make this year have to be efficient decisions and making sure that you know, if it's third down and you know, don't try to force them all and just throw it away. Things of that nature and I think Kenny will be fine. Now, so rebulley Kenny is very smart. He can he can embrace a lot of the offense and embrace a lot of what's going on at the quarterback position. He's athletic, you know, he's big. He can, you know, you obviously do worry about the concussions a little bit, but hopefully he's gotten past that. But just really embrace the offense and embrace who he is. You know, he knows he's a very confident kid and he knows what he is capable of and he knows what he can go out there and do. But decision making is huge. Decision making, whatever the ball is in his hands, he has to be efficient with the football and not make the bad mistakes. If he does eliminate that, which we saw towards the end of the year, he did eliminate that coming from, you know, throwing eight interceptions. So he did get better as the year went on last year. He honestly has to take that from last year into this year and make sure that that never happens again. So number one for me would be decision making all day for Kenny Pickett. And he's going to have the tools. Like I said, my Canada Canada's going to have the tools who have the tools in the toolbox and make sure that he eliminates those negative issues. I'm right with you on that because to me, the best part of Kenny Pickett, what's his decision making, especially in that last year in 2021, it looked like every team that threw a defense out there, even some of the games they lost like Miami and in Western Michigan that year, it wasn't because Kenny Pickett didn't see the field. He was seeing the field all over the place. There was maybe one or two players where he would like just maybe miss with the trajectory on a ball, but it wasn't because he didn't understand the defenses he was going. The guy is extra prepared. To me, that's always been Kenny Pickett's best asset is that he comes prepared. He thinks on his feet, but he also studies a ton. We've heard a lot about the nook that he would keep in his locker where he would just kind of dip away after practice and just study film because he didn't want to make the same mistake twice. And we saw him shape up. The interceptions that he threw in the first half of the season disappeared in the second half of the season. If he's able to do that at the next step now, not just limiting mistakes, but increasing the opportunities and the big chance plays, finding the open man because as much as Matt Canada does have to step up as well, there were plenty of plays where there were open guys and Kenny just didn't see him in time. But part of it also, the Steelers were probably playing protect ball. They were saying, hey, don't take the big chance. Get the ball out quick. Let's let the defense win these games. I think this year, especially with the investments they've made on the offensive line, not just Broderick Jones, but also Isaac Suellamolo, and then also Darnell Washington, the growth of Pat Bremuth, Najee Harris, George Pickens and Deontay Johnson with Kenny Pickett. There's a real chance for them to kind of open things up for Kenny Pickett. And let's see, let's see what he's like when the Steelers aren't playing. Hey, just protect the ball and let the defense win the game. And let's see what Kenny Pickett does with this year. And I do think, like you said, the decision making part of that is the most exciting part of it. And if we look at the 12 personnel package again, talk about the tight ends and what they can do, can he pick it, I think, did the best when he would when he would find the solo matchups that he really liked across the field. He would study opponents, figure out which players on his team, like even Tacey or Mac, a guy who went undrafted at a pit. He would find ways to match him up with the right guys and then he would pick defenses apart with him. I think Kenny Pickett's the guy who won't focus in on just one player if they have a great day. Like if George Pickens is going off, he won't just lock in to him even if he's double covered. He'll keep serving the field and if Pat Bremuth's the guy one day, he'll go to him. If it's Darnell Washington, another play, he'll go to him. I think that could be the real key to unlocking the potential of not just him, but the entire Steelers offense. Kenny's going to be the third option of this football team, which I think is perfect. The way that they're structuring this, it's going to be, hey, we're going to be a run first team as we just drafted. Broderick Jones, we see a maulu, we signed in the off season, we beat up our offensive line, we got Darnell Washington, who's the best blocking tight end. We want to be a run first team. We got Najee Harris and Jaylen Warner in the backfield. We want to start and filter our football game on offense with our running game. Then the second option is we're going to play defense. Well, you could actually go vice versa. You could say defense, then offense and running the ball or running the ball and then playing defense. Second option, let's go right now. They're going to be like, hey, we're a defensive team. This is how we're going to beat teams. This is how we're going to slow down Joe Burrow in the Cincinnati Bengals. This is how we're going to slow down Lamar Jackson. This is how we're going to slow down Deshawn Watson and we're going to rely on our running game. Third option is Kenny, we need you to come through. I think that that is probably the best outlook and this is obviously all high insight for me. I'm just anticipating this happening. This is probably the best situation for our young quarterback going into his second year to not be like, hey, you have to be the man and throw the ball 50 times a game for us to win. No, you are the third option. We want you to manage the game a little bit. We're going to be a run first team and then we're going to set you up. We're going to play great defense and then we're going to set you up to go out there and finish the game. Kind of like an alley. You're going to dribble down the court and you're going to throw it up and then you're just going to dunk it down. That's what we're going to look at you to do, Kenny. You do not have to be the man score 50 points a game like your LeBron James or something. No, you're going to go out there and you're going to be the quarterback and then whenever it's time for you to cook and go in there, you're going to be able to do that. But don't feel the pressure of having to do that every single play because we got you on the other things. We got you. You're going to be our third option this year and I think that's the perfect outlook and perfect structure that Steelers need to take this year. I agree entirely. We look at the Steelers as they're constructed. It would be great if Kenny Pickett was just lighting people up this year, but you don't need him to. I think that's the whole point of building the way they have the stronger offensive line. This is to me and I compared this again yesterday. This is to me what young Ben Raufusberger got when he first came to the Steelers. Now, granted, he won the second Super Bowl with not a great offensive line, but that first offensive line he got, Jeff Harding, Marvell Smith, Alan Fannica, those guys, they could bully you at all times. They had one of the best rushing offenses in the league when you look back at that 2004 and 2005 teams and how that they dominated opponents at the line of scrimmage. It made it so Ben Raufusberger, when it was time to step up and make the big play, defenses weren't just staring at him and saying, you're the guy I have to worry about. Whereas when Patrick Mullins takes the field, everyone's worried about him and that's a challenge that he takes on very well. But for Kenny Pickett, maybe someday he'll be ready for that. But right now, why bet on him having to be ready for that day? Why not? Why not? Use, hey, we've invested in all these other pieces. This is the future of what you see at least right now while he continues to grow as a veteran in the NFL. And we've seen other teams play like this. The Eagles for as good as Jalen Hurts is. They were 18 that could dominate you on the ground and play great defense. And then Jalen Hurts would come in. The 49ers. That's why Brock Purdy was so successful. Exactly. They didn't ask too much of him. And when it was time for him to step up, all he had to do with certain things and the other defenses were too worried about Christian McCaffrey and the offensive line and worrying about the defense that if they mess up, that defense is going to be back on the field and they're going to be fresh. So that is the target for what I think the Steelers are headed towards. And I think it's a very good idea that Andy Wider, Omar Khan and Mike Tomman have been building up towards. No doubt. And you talked about the Eagles and look who came from the Eagles. Look who constructed that roster. Andy Whiteau. And I know he's not a coach coach, but philosophy wise and roster building wise, you can kind of see the proof is in the pudding of how he's constructed. He's like, hey, I want that guy. I need that guy. Oh, more. I need you to make some moves to get this guy. Can we make a move? Yeah. We can give him a fourth round pick and we can trade up in the draft and get our guy and get your guy. Yep. That's the guy we need in order to make a Super Bowl ish roster. I'm not saying they're going to make the Super Bowl next year. I'm not saying that they're even going to make the playoffs, but they are trending in that direction of what the Philadelphia Eagles did the past couple of years to get to where they were last year. And Andy Whiteau is the guy that really serviced them to do that. He's a part piece of the puzzle in Philly. And now he's here and you can see his his handprints on a lot of the decisions being made in this offseason and especially in this draft. And hopefully it pans out for them. Hopefully they take that approach and they run with it. We'll certainly see if they do. We'll keep you updated with things. Rookie camp starts later this week here with the Pittsburgh Steelers. We'll get a first look at Broderick Jones and Darnell Washington at the Steelers facility as well as the other guys like Keanu Betten, Joey Porter Jr. and everyone else on the roster. Dorn, thanks so much for joining us here on the lockdown Steelers podcast. Let people know we can find you, follow you and get more of your work. I appreciate it Chris. App score and Dorn on Twitter, Instagram and 93 7 Defend Twitter account as well. And at the fan morning show you can find me there five days a week, Monday through Friday, 5 40 a.m. to 10 a.m. You'll hear me every single morning. But appreciate you. Absolutely. Thanks so much, Dorn. I'm Chris Carter, host of the Lockdown Steelers podcast. You can find us on your favorite podcasting app and especially on YouTube. Like this video if you enjoyed it. Subscribe to this YouTube channel to get all of your daily Monday to Friday episodes as well as our bonus content. Thanks to everyone for listening to us today and checking us out. Remember go on Apple podcast rate us five stars with a positive comment. You both at the same time. You get a shout out at the end of the show and don't forget to call in to the show. 4122236644 if you call in and give us a $10 donation on the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation campaign that we have where you have a QR code here to get to the donation page. Do both and you guarantee to get your show answered within a week of your donation right here on the air by me on Lockdown Steelers. Again, thanks to Dorn. Thanks to everyone for checking us out. Back tomorrow West Euler joins the show. We still talking your Pittsburgh Steelers right here before rookie camp opens up. A prime members, you can listen to this Lockdown podcast and free on Amazon music. 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