Elbows outside is that alright hold down. Oh shit
I mean you won't okay, I'm gonna start a fire delight on the show date
All right, we're talking
Eath Denver or F Denver depending on how you'd like to pronounce it. It's it's up to you
Cory and Jesse
You all went and partook of this so
Cory I'm gonna ask you this because I think Jesse would not have a very long answer for people who might not know what it is
What even is?
F-tember who good question
Thanks for that question. Anyway
I don't even know how I say it. I think I go back and forth with East and F-tember depending on my feeling at the time
but uh
Ethereum has a set of
conferences around the globe called East Global
that happen and have been happening for a long period of time and
One of the I think more robust ones that people enjoyed going to especially for the early vibe
was Eath Denver. There you go. That's it. All right, right
and
It really kind of I think was one of the better ones that
struck the kind of weird
philosophical
regenerative vibe of
Ethereum because it's run by I mean, that's where a lot of like people like Kevin O'Wackey from get coin is in Denver
He's really in there like regenerative finance these types of things and so they were the early kind of progenitors pushers of this one
It's now made run by getting John who's the founder of Opelos, which is like a
a dow for
Handling payroll if you get paid by crypto. So it's like, you know, you you join a co-op
Which handles some of the difficulties of accepting crypto in your life and if you ever try to get a bankload
And you accept crypto for your job
Have fun good luck opelos is there to try to help right so like they're like this
It's an interesting group of people that are pushed an early good vibe of what ethereum was based on
this series of conferences called eath global f-thinver being with one in demberth and
Over the years it's basically grown like exponentially like it's been
Small and cool
And then every year gets bigger and leading up to this year like last year
uh, it was
Two big Brits britches and that the venue is that they made or too small for the amount of
Demand and number of tickets that they sold so like getting in was really hard when she got in it was really
Hard to get around as like clustered so this year they went all out and bought like a stock yard
Or into like stock yards and so it's a huge venue which a lot of people complained about because it's like lost some of that vibe
But like when you have something like 40,000 registrations for a conference
Like starting from like I don't know a couple hundred tough
Metric shit ton is the vibe changes right like that coordination effort makes me want to throw up and
And I had a good time there's a lot of good good representation of projects
We had quite a few people from status show up got to see some people I'd never seen
From status and meet some some ogees and then just all a lot of my friends that show up
How many people were complaining about it being too big that you think were the people that also couldn't get in the last time
Like
Somebody's complaining but did were you also complaining when you couldn't
Register
I don't
No, I never had that problem because I was a speaker and I'd walk in but like
I privilege
I'd speak your privilege
You talk in this maybe
No, this is the first conference that I've been doing a long time that I didn't give a talk at and it was
Wonderful
Why you don't like talking with the pro repeat I love talking but it's it's a burden and it's stressful and it was nice to just walk around and
Five out and talk to people and not have such like pressure to get anything Jesse. What do you do when you're when you're there?
I went around with people from status collecting swag and talking to projects
So much swag. Yeah, I have a ton
I have many socks and hats and t-shirts
And a sweater he's a lot like a lot of
You want to bolt. Yeah, I have a I got a couple sweaters. I got a wall connect sweater
After I talked with Pedro for a while about why he's not even walking
Would you say you're swag-nificant now? Jesse
Uh, I don't know
Yeah, okay
Now he's certainly not cool enough to use the word so no
So so here's what I want to know
What did Pedro say to you and your conversations about him with like regarding why they aren't using walk away?
In wallet connect anymore
Yeah, so a quick history lesson
Wallet connects started out so wallet connects is a service that allows you to connect
Your phone wallet to a web app web DAP
I'm gonna say that word that he centralized the application whether it's in your browser or on a desktop application or something
That'll you wouldn't want to connect your wallet to instead of using metamask
You open up a wallet connect thing and get your QR code
And you scan that with your mobile wallet and it makes a connection between
Your wallet on your phone and the app you're browsing on your desktop
Very valuable thing very valuable thing very used
He did it's only been around like 2018 and he had a wonderful job of proliferating the standard to a bunch of different wallets
uh
This original wallet connect version wallet connect version one was centralized in the manner that like he ran the
Infrastructure that managed those connections
So if you were maybe if you're using wallet connect you were using a wall connect server that can
Basically do whatever it wanted to do with those connections and if wallet connect with down you couldn't connect to your app
Um and an effort to decentralized that and not rely on wallet connect infrastructure
uh, we convinced them to use walk ooh, and so
When you started managing those those wallet to DAP negotiations
He had infrastructure that
Used walk ooh as a relay service to negotiate those those handshakes and establish a connection between your phone and the thing
uh since then he moved off of walk ooh to be
Like used a cloud service. I forget which one he uses up set my head. Why?
Um ostensibly he said the latency was a problem
So the time it took to make that handshake there might have been some other issues that
I don't know technical details of but
uh, that seemed to be the main issue and so we talked about it and
It appears as though he had a naive implementation of using walk ooh, which is very easy to do
Walk ooh is a ephemeral messaging service, right?
I said messages in a gossip layer
If you know how to listen to them you receive them if you don't want to listen to them
You can't see them or differentiate them from all the other traffic
If you set this up wrong you end up using a lot of bandwidth without getting what you want the one
Right
Uh, so I talked to him about a lot of the work we're doing
in status and in walk ooh to
um
Test and give best practices on how to use walk ooh appropriately to get to the level of performance is looking for
Uh, and we may
Do some discovery work to put that back into the wall of connect. So hopefully that's the case and we announced that in something like
ETC
Got it
Can I slap an analogy on this
We saw wall looking that guy
Was
Sending someone out to pick his pick up his groceries and he said hey, I want some green peppers
But then they came back with like jalapenos serratos
pepper and chinese basically every green pepper
And he was like, oh no, so he didn't calibrate
That request he didn't say hey, no green peppers like just green peppers and they were like, oh you want green peppers you say
Here you go. Here's all of the green
And then it messed up the latency. It's not a terrible analogy actually
I was just waiting to be like, is that a right analogy just
I thought about it
Short and densely while you were explaining his response and that's been a problem like even it's like ironically even status
the the company and application that
Burst walk ooh for a lack of a better term
uh
Didn't implement walk ooh correctly when they when they like
Increase the versioning as we moved away from whisper, right?
We changed the way it works
And the process of doing that we didn't relay the like the right way to implement walk ooh so that you're
Getting the right performance that you're looking for depending upon the security guarantees that you want
So if you do that wrong, you're gonna get a bunch of messages you don't want
Or you're not getting the messages that you do want
Uh inside you have a lot of work on our side to fix that
And then today like it'll do the things he wants he wants it to do
So like if walk ooh or switchboard how many switches are on it
It's a it's a it's
A lot, but you can't see them. I don't know how it's kind of a point right like it's it's a huge network to be able to listen to what you
Want to do uh, but you can't see all the traffic. That's kind of a point. That's uh, it's supposed to obscure privacy
The routing of one message to one person messing to another depending on how you can figure it
So wait, hold up. You want to give me like the tech the tech buzz?
No, I have a question like if each node can configure walk ooh
then
Couldn't you be at risk of not getting
The full gamut of the produce section you know what i'm saying going back to the analogy for earlier
What's a gossip network, right? So there's different ways in which you can run it depending upon
Uh how you want to contribute to the network and what you want to listen to and what trust assumptions you have
But like if you run a relay
As long as you're listening to
The right things you're gonna get everything. It's like it's like a it's a it's a
What's the word i'm looking for? They're just passing the baton
Well, like all the messages you publish it's a it's a
Publish subscribe method otherwise known as pub sub and that I want to send a message. I publish to a specific topic
And anyone who knows how to listen to that topic
We'll get it. So what that does is helps with
uh removing send a receiver connections
So it's not necessarily sure like who i'm sending it to because i'm publishing to a place and someone knows how to listen to that place
And the process of publishing to a place
I send a message to the to a relay and that person then sends that same message
Throughout the entire relay and appear to appear away
So that eventually all relays know that that message exists
And so if I have a connection to any relay eventually i'm going to see that that message exists
And I can read it if I can decrypt it appropriately
And so you you you you sever the link between i'm sending you a message
And okay, no matter speaking
is there a certain uh
Is there a certain number of nodes?
Needed that would compete with the centralized services that he had to go back to or felt he had to go back to because
I mean he obviously now that he knows there's a good chance they'll switch to waku
Switch back i have to prove it to him right he's not going to switch over infrastructure that it works to one
He's not sure words the process of what we're doing with
some of the analysis and research of scaling waku
is finding that number and
performance difference
To make sure that I can meet his requirements and if I can't meet the requirements if there's something like that
Then we know that waku doesn't work for that use case and we can publish that like i'm not going to say it does if it doesn't
That's part of the research that's currently ongoing. God in us
That sounds like an interesting conversation. Sorry Jesse. I think I actually uh hijack
No, no, i'm i'm learning and listening
So I had a question like additionally like if if waku doesn't meet the requirements of wallet connect
How will it meet our requirements for status chat app?
What wallet connect does is a bit different than what status chat app tries to do
um
In my opinion, they're close enough such that if we can meet the demands of status we certainly meet the demands of wallet connect
But
But they're slightly different and the types of ways in which they want to filter things and
the amount of information they
Or the amount of features that they don't need with respect to like privacy or security
Like in my opinion like wallet connect doesn't care about privacy
So they don't need to implement some of the overhead that's required for private chat or private message specific
So in using a friend like messing for for like robustness
In terms of like messaging performance for their feature that they're going to have like the messaging between wallets
Is that something that status chat app may not get to because of the privacy and that is included in the overhead?
It already does that
Status chat already does that
Which is not obvious like the text already there
We just use instead of using your wallet key
We use a a chat key not linked to your wallet because we want to make sure that we want to sever the link between
Who you're talking to and how much funds they have that's something they should disclose to you
In order to do that we don't use your account address as the key used to sign sign messages
I'm talking about like latency in terms of messaging between like simply people
Isn't it like considerably higher for status chat app versus wallet connect
No, no, it'll be the same thing
It's not okay because we know how to do it
Maybe it depends right on what his infrastructure is
Like if he uses waku just to connect wallet connect relay nodes
There's a bunch of other stuff in between those relay nodes and however he implements chat, which I don't know exactly sure
I don't know how he's building things
Whereas our chat is like lower in the stack and leverages the relays themselves
Jesse is this your first conference at Denver
And by the way, because when I say I say ethereum denver on one of those
Um, this is your first comment. She would have dev connect and no I said this is my first. This is my first uh, eth denver conference
Yeah, that's what I said
How did you there's a lot of weed in Denver?
Like a lot
We went to I went to
Might as well be I was at I went to the the pizza dao
after party one of those nights because um
pizza was following some friends and
It was like a private event for a pizza dao who does something which I don't I'm not sure of so I'm not
shilling or anything. It's just where my friends happen to be and um
Like the bartenders were taking ball hits like it was like
Nice
Like that's really dark
It's really illegal when you're like order a beer and like hold up bro and the bartender takes a rip and then it'll get your beer
How do they how do they get to go to contact i move you walked into this place? There's no way of getting around it
Oh, yeah, how do they get the productivity?
We'd like I have no idea like it's where everybody who can successful be productive on weed moves to denver
Because they're like, yeah, this is it this is it for me. I don't forget this
But for me when I smoke weed, it's over. I go into the phantom zone. Yeah, there's no coming back, but
Anyways, did you guys light up? You can say it. It's okay. Tommy's bro. He took on the phantom zone. Tommy's
Like
Those don't look out pretty hard. Oh, yeah, edibles are no joke. No
They're so good. It tastes so they're dangerously good
It's like candy is it or
Yeah, I don't understand. Yeah, I did keep your lungs intact
Just take a couple gummies and see you tomorrow. That's what it is. Okay. No, don't take a couple gummies
Just take one gummy take bite the head off of one gummy. It's not even good. Yeah, my rhodos and gummies
It was bad. I just I want to know how how many times a year does somebody
Find their toddler next to an open bag of edibles. Oh, I don't know man. That scares the hell out of me
It's gotta be like clearly people don't understand the power of these things like at that same pizza dial party
There some kid took
Something
Some rip and he was literally passed out mouth-doping on the couch
The entire time I was there he didn't budge and people just like to have any conversation around him
He was gone by the time the party was gone. I'm like
Someone took him home. He did not do it
He was just went to sleep
Well, that's bad. I'm too sorry for the kid. Yeah, no, you're wonderful. You gotta be careful
You live in places like that
Um young bucks. Well, are there any projects that look like I know
Uh at one I think it's two ethdivers ago. Excuse me a theory of endeavors ago where tornado cash made its
debut was it at at the end? It was it was actually at a theory of endeavor and
I wonder there's so many tornado cash t shirts there
A railgun was there as well. They were handing out gloves
Um
But was there any moments like that where you saw like a neat
Project that was ready to go with a quote-unquote finished thing
Making their debut at
Ethin, I don't know because I don't really go to talks
And I don't really talk to people and booths. I really just sit there and talk to friends
Outside and always talk to the nucleo people because that was I just talked to nucleo. So that was
There we go. See this is what i'm getting to what's nucleo?
Nucleo is and we're actually gonna potentially work with them. Uh, they smell that wrong. It's nuclei
But they're not trying to say multiple nucleus. Oh, they're not. Oh, okay. They're nucleo
uh
It is
As far as I can tell the first private
multi-sig
slash
eventually dau because you can do private multi-sigs
in existence meaning that
Uh, you don't know what the total amount is
within this multi-sig
And you don't know who the signers are for the small t-sig
Um
Which is important for situations like constitution dau
Even for that whole
Interesting debacle that happened in ethereum
Raised a bunch of money to buy a replica of the constitution
They got this right
Outbid it suisbees because
You could see how much money they had
it's
Or this I had a long conversation with someone who I think was
Forget who who he represented, but he was in one of the after parties I was at
Um, not understanding the reasoning behind a why you'd want a private dau
Like why would you care to have a private dau?
And I said if well, do you understand the reasoning behind a limited liability corporation?
Like you build these
Entities such that you remove your liability from
What the entity does in the case that the entity goes down they cannot go after your personal assets
And so if you look at the concept of a dau it gives you no concept of limited liability
Because do you know exactly who's voting on what or where the weight is
And so if you don't like what the dau is doing you go after the power which is the individual
and
we can't build any type of
legal sheltering entity on
blockchain until we have privacy and I was trying to explain this concept to him
And
Luklino is it is the first instance of that built on the Aztec network because they were able to reuse
The zero knowledge circuits that are built into the Aztec network
Mm
I like how like there's two ways there's private dau and then there's like
co-op and denver like
Hide in numbers
They're not like hiding in opolis
I mean
There isn't like it's it's community owned right the members
Practionally owned I can see exactly who owns what it's not privacy. Yeah, yeah, but like there's no one person
Like for instance if you want it's pulling money to pay for services, right? It's
Well, here's a thing right if if you got a free ticket to go to eth denver by joining the co-op
Just imagine how many tens of thousands of people may sign up over the next few years
To become you know a member of that co-op and if any sort of like class action lawsuit against the co-op may happen
That's a lot of like risk that gets dispersed across many people instead of you know, john
Maybe I don't know
Yeah, I don't know well
Socialized losses so he's not amount something like that. Yeah
But I don't want to be penalized because of some asshole on a co-op that I'm in does nothing stupid
Yeah, but birds of a feather man if you're hanging around a bunch of people do stupid stuff then you usually go down with them
Did it do people opt into that like when they when they join a dau
Are they like I'm opting into the ass hollary of everyone here? That's not a bylaws of joining a dau
That's not that's big and calling it a plicit is like implicit
I think is a overstepping I just I want dows to be more than a chat room with a bank account. Whoever came on our
The bitcoin podcast at the time and said that description was that i'm a dau
I can't remember using the last 20 episodes. Julian
May be it was somebody talking about doubt. You know, it could have been the opulence dau guy
I could have been him. It could have a job. I think it was actually him
He said it's a chat room with a bank account, which
Is
Is true
but it does kind of
I don't know
I feel like it
Makes dau seem stupid when you put that frame when you put it in that frame
Especially when it comes to what I was talking about whether like there is no concept of limited liability
yeah
You people's just form organizations around dows because they want
the dau to do something
And potentially shield themselves from the consequences of what that organization does. We don't have that
What's the point other than
No, that's the whole point. You don't know who who the signatures are
Now, why don't people start easy with dows like start easy with things that aren't so
I don't know whimsical as humanity at mass
Like start with like putting making a vending machine be a dau
A dau
Yeah, like the vending machine is a dau and then when it has enough money to buy it when the vending machine has enough money
To buy another vending machine
It buys another vending machine
And figures out where to put it in the city and it how does a vending machine do that
That's what i'm saying like start with a machine
Don't start with a fractional fee from like from like uh, so say you buy like a bottle of code
Like this this idea has been explored in like the internet of things like if you if you like at least in my undergrad
They talked about this like how like what d was saying, you know, any sort of machine with a microcontroller that has like a public facing
slot for putting in money it can take a slice of you know a
Effie of the transaction. Don't start
Don't don't you do that. Sorry start paying for itself start paying for its electricity start paying for its internet
so
Think about it think about it. You can have you can have a kind of dumb idea for you can know about
About an inanimate object with someone where the repercussions and the risk is what spoiled candy bars
Right and experiment on the vending machine and then when the vending machine has enough money in it
And has a mass enough profit
It buys another vending machine and hires a service to set it up and hires a service to deliver it and finds out
To be delivered and like the now was supposed to be doing that was the whole point
It just ended up taking like talking about slock it
Slob
maids
the dow
ostensibly
to
Perform that feat that function
And that's way too big way too fast
Just just start there like start small don't if you start applying dow concepts to groups of humans
You're that's no that's not gonna end well. No, it's how we pull funds for various things
We're like I can't buy it. You can't buy it but together
You buy it. That's basically the gist of a dowel and then like all right now that we pulled the funds
How do we vote on using them? That's it? That's the whole that's the whole thing
I absolutely adopt absolutely
Understanding
However, in the current world that we live in
There's significant ramifications in almost every jurisdiction for just pulling your money together
You usually have to start a syndicate or you have to put your money in the kit
Yes, a syndicate is a pulling of money people pulling their money together
You go get a syndicate out of and you start working in the world as a syndicate
um
Right. There's there's ramifications for like literal legal ramifications. Why start body of syndics
That's a stupid definition. That's nothing
Just lose association of racketeers and control of organized crime
Well, that's the bad one
Right, but the one a group of persons were concerns who combined
To carry out a particular transaction or project there you go
There's your
Accentication there you have to apply for it and then you have to register at this
You have to do things to say I am a syndicate
Me and my other family members have formed a syndicate and we're going to start buying things together
And then the government says okay. We acknowledge that you're on the register. You have a syndicate
Buy all the things you want to do
right
so
Cory I used to work for private equity firms. That's what they do
Send the kids right and it's so it's so
So ominous sounding isn't it?
We are the syndicate is there like
Top-out or like a minimum for this like I believe D my family's work like all right
We're going lottery is high everybody put in your money for tickets like do we have to register like where does it?
Where does it end? I think you can make us
So, um, do I know how to make a syndicate? No, do I can LLC
It's an LLC. It's just a co a co-owner
A co-owned
Oh LLC that a if there's a sort of business, huh?
Counts is an LLC
You can run a syndicate as an as an LLC or a corporation
Basically when you have some income producing like asset or business then the stupid conversation
Most last stupid conversation, I think is a good conversation because it's like people are trying to reinvent wheels instead of
Okay one that I'd be contradicting myself if I did say it's not a good thing
To reinvent because I don't think the literal wheel that one's pretty good. But I lasted for a bit
Well, I mean like now it is but it started as a stone disc. We've come a long way
like I mean like I feel like
if there's legal
framework written in such a way that it's not oppressive
and
Isn't the like the wall isn't bless you
Like if an LLC counts as a syndicate it costs like 70 bucks to start an LLC almost in every state
like
Don't make a dowle everyone
making LLC and
Make it a multiple member LLC
Right like I guess I guess all this blabbing is what I'm trying to say is I feel like
There's other avenues to spread the technology of crypto
But there's too many opportunity for people with
Just a little bit of greed in their system to try to apply it in a way that it's not it's gonna go south
It's gonna go south fast be interesting to interview some of the like
Useful dials out there. Let's see how they would say they would go tell you to fuck yourself. Do you versus do I would love?
It's on
Devers is doubt. I mean, I just want to know you know, I just want I want to know why they
She's chosen the route of making an LLC. I want to know if Jesse did anything besides scoop up swag
At the Denver. Do you do like the talks and stuff? Yeah, that's true
Yeah, I talked to uh
I talked to brian retford at risk uh risk zero that that huge zkvm project
And uh, yeah, I talked to them like so what are you guys gonna do with it?
Like where are you guys gonna deploy it?
Then they they said that they're gonna have their own blockchain called bonsai
And that's where they're gonna deploy the zkvm and I was asking him but he was explaining to mo like
Essentially how it worked and I thought that it compiled all like multi language compilation down to solidity bytecode
But it actually is its own um like language that it compiles to so I was like, oh, okay
Yeah, when you think of things compiling to
Evium bytecode, they'll usually have the evm as a part of it because
A part of the name so whenever you lose the e they stop caring about
being
One-to-one mapping to solidity got it
So like you would have to write like the business logic is
Oh, although the the smart contracts are not going to be in solidity like how
Like what smart contract language would they use?
They're like what would it compile to?
I don't know it depends they may they may use some
Some transpiler that makes a intermediate language
You need a representation language that then compiles to whatever their VM bytecode is
And so you can use a bunch of different ones. So that's how wasm works, right?
I can I can I can write a bunch of programs
in different languages and then use this transpiler to then
compile to wasm the wasm runtime
and
Then it runs in the browser because it's native to browser or like risk zero has what's called the risk five
architecture set which is a
instruction set for machines that is open source and collaborative and you can make machines that have
chips that are
That follow this instruction set to anything you build that's
Conform it to the risk five architecture runs on this machine. So they're they're their
VM uses the risk five instructions set and so all you need is something that compiles to risk five
And so all of their zero knowledge circuits and stuff like that are conformed to
That instruction set so whatever can compile to risk five is what's probably going to be able to be used
Nice
It's like every every language though, right?
Yeah, I believe so
Do you think it's going to get to a point where there'll be like a
like a composition of VMs
Like you know
Where you have applications specific blockchains with with like application specific VMs
I can imagine that being a thing. Yeah, I mean like avalanches testament to that. So is so is cosmos like
The l2 ecosystem on a theory of them is also a different slice of that picture
The VMs like optimism Aztec
Polygon both of the myriad of polygon things
Like all that all those are different VMs for specific purposes
most of them aggregating transactions with Aztec being the only one that does any privacy
But like you build different virtual machines
To give specific types of features or functionality
They all have some common interface to what's below them
They're also like different like
Types like zk evm types that have different levels of parity with like smart contract execution
Like zk evm type 2 is essentially like one to one parity with the evm
Versus like a type one or I think there's a type zero which is like
a minimum like a
a cut down version effectively
So it doesn't support all the all the functionality of the evm
So like risk zero like is actually not the full risk five instructions
It's actually a reduced set and like the zk wasm vm
That's even like an extended instruction set. So that's like hundreds of instructions like
You know like when you're when you're thinking
You know like system calls like I don't know if you you've ever seen like the assembly stuff like for x86, right?
You just get a wholesons with the academics. Yeah, do you just know any of those things? I mean a wholesons were the
Trying to keep up. I was thinking that the machine understands like it's like machine language all right above zeros and ones
Yeah, it's the language right above zeroes and ones and that's the language that the computer
understands in terms of
Being the fastest to compile because it's so close to the zeroes and ones
So as you start having like these higher abstraction languages like
um python which is like
Even above because python can compile compiles to i i don't know if it still does compiles to see or c plus plus whatever
And then see c plus plus compiles down into
um, I think assembly and then assembly to you know binary
But then when you have like these like risk five like architectures like the risk zero
There's only I think I think 50 something instructions of the total
Like a hundred and something like extended instruction set that the risk five architecture has and then
Wasm zk wasm like the the web assembly stuff like that thing has like hundreds of uh instruction sets
uh, so like
The complexity with a zk wasm vm versus a zk vm is like a risk
five
zk vm is like
orders of magnitude more difficult
to implement many more circuits
We can dive into the wheez on this one because
system design and
Making veams is really really hard. And if you don't understand
That low level there's a lot of other things to get to to get there
Push pop registers
Oh, this is it he's either the
Is frozen or he's like seriously
Off said about what's happening right now
There it is
Going in and out probably about time to wrap up anyway because these guys have been to eat Denver are very tired
so any final thoughts about
F denver or plans to go to the next
global event anytime soon
I don't know my next conference will be
I may go into the avalanche summit. I definitely go to fcc probably in Paris
No, but there's a lot in between there. So
Uh, f denver
We'll see how I feel next year. It'll be even bigger
Probably the same place because that was a good venue
Probably go to the source rooftop again
Definitely I had a home base
rooftop bar at the call the source awesome view of denderer if you ever go to denderer
Nice. Maybe it was wigging out there. Good beer. Good food
Um
Okay, so sounds like eat over eat. Yeah, yeah, yeah off the end, but no
That was that was that was the end there man
And that's with their final thoughts.