#1111 | Wieke Kaptein Joins Chelsea Loan Army #CFCW

Hello and welcome to Blue Roll Tea at London's Blue Podcast dedicated to the Chelsea women's team. I'm your host Jess Buck Humphries, joined today by Abdullah Abdullah. How is it going on this Monday evening for you, sir? It is getting another Monday, getting another start through the week, getting another podcast, but getting another start of the week at work. So, I mean, there's some good things in here, there's bad things in here. We're edging ever closer to some football, so it's kind of realised how boring it was without the football this weekend, so just bring it back, let's bring it back. Well, listen, I don't know about you, but I enjoyed some of the football this weekend around certain teams who were playing in Champions League qualifiers, but we are not an Arsenal podcast, so we don't have to talk about it, but there may be some relevance in that as we get into the podcast today. We are going to sort of use as a jumping off point the announcement that Vika Kaptine has signed to Chelsea, which happened last week, another one of our kind of surprise youngster signing. She's going straight back on loan to the club she was up before, FC20, and we're going to use this just to sort of check in with this loan army that Chelsea have built up. We're looking at sort of nine players out on loan at the moment, actually make that eight for reasons. We'll also talk about later, but eight players out on loan. There's a good chunk that we're still probably expecting to go on loan, so I think we're going to be looking at a set of loanes that probably numbers in the teams, potentially, definitely more than 10. And so we kind of want to look at how Chelsea have sort of approached this, how we think it's looking, and then do a bit of predictions, do a bit of looking into the future, and have a little chat about what we think, CFC women might look like at the start of the 2025-26 season. How many of these players do we think are going to make it into the squad? Where do we think the opportunities for them to come through are, and what that might look like, what this sort of development might look like? But let's start with Vika Kaptine. She is a Dutchman fielder, 18 years old. She's very, very prokosa. She was the youngest Dutch player to be called up for a World Cup when she went to Australia this summer. She signed a four-year contract with Chelsea, so obviously that's the year that she's on loan plus another three, so it's a really, really chunky contract for her. Kaptine said on signing, it's a really big club, and I'm very honored to be here. I'm looking forward to playing football with Chelsea. I can't wait to meet the players and fans, but I'm happy I can develop myself one more year in the erud of easy. Hey said, Vika is the top young midfielder. She has great energy in the middle of the park, but she's also a player who can play between both boxes really well. She likes to get forward. She's a nationist and a style of play will suit the WSL. She needs to go and keep developing and we look forward to her future. Paul Green adds, we're really pleased to bring Vika to the club. She is a player we have been watching for quite a while. She has a lot of experiences such as young age having played regularly over the last couple of years for FC 20 in their first team. We look forward to seeing her do well for 20 this season and continuing her development. I think one of the things that is obviously very impressive about Captain as a player and obviously I think what's put Chelsea's attention on to and a lot of people's attention on to her. Obviously, people who watch the erud of easy is that she is very, very young, but she's basically already played two full seasons for FC 20, which is just particularly impressive for a player of any age. I do think the erud of easy encourages young players. In a good way and an exciting way, but I think there's something to be said about a sort of box to box midfielder really taking on that responsibility in the middle of the park. Obviously to the extent that she did get that call up to the Dutch national team for the World Cup. Yeah, absolutely. I think any player, especially the younger ones, especially in a central midfield position is such a such a vote of confidence. If you can get a player who is that young playing in a central midfield position regardless of whether playing as a six or an eight, as a deep-lying playmaker or as a box to box midfielder, I feel like you need to have a certain level of intelligence and a certain level of technical skill to be able to play in that position and kind of like you said, the fact that she's already played two full seasons totaling up to like 3,000 minutes across two seasons. I mean, that is some insane number, right, 36 appearances, has three goals in the assist. I mean, those are some crazy numbers for the team to go and say, right, you know what, you're 16, you're actually a problem for us, you're actually a really good problem for us because you're actually too good. We should be playing, should we not play you and then they kind of kept her around and you know, the fact that, you know, a couple years later, a year or so later, she's like now running, you know, playing in that midfield constantly, a huge part of it with the number of minutes and a number of games that she's been playing that, you know, you kind of have to look at and go right and maybe there is definitely a player that in the fact that the Dutch national team are like, right, you know what, you may not play minutes at the World Cup, but we're going to bring you along with us for the experience and usually when you bring people along for the experience at that age, it's more because you're grooming them for future World Cups and future squads because you have that belief in them so that they can be around the camp and you know, get that experience of being in a World Cup camp. I think, I think of the players, the young players that Chelsea have been picking up, I think Captain might be one of those that in a couple of years time, we'll be looking back and going, right, we've just got ourselves already made a walk last September to field or right there ready for that midfield with maybe alongside Michael Hamano and a couple of years time, so who knows. Yeah, she's definitely, I think it's fair to say one of the most established players that Chelsea have bought and then loaned out, although Michael obviously had played a pretty significant chunk of minutes in Japan as well, but you know, to have two seasons at the age of 18 and like, look, she's very essential now, so the way FC 20 wants to play and 20 somewhat controversial, I'm going to say, made it out of that round one of Champions League qualifying, they came from two goals down against Levante to win three two, some of you might have seen the clip that's been going around on Twitter where 20 school their first goal, when basically the 20 player is supposedly playing the ball back to Levante's goalkeeper because they kicked it out after a 20 player went down injured, so a little bit of a controversial win, but still, ultimately, a very impressive one because Levante, a very, very good team, captain, I'm played, all of that game, she played all of the game before to even set up that match against Levante. Yeah, so looking at the 20 starts, last season in the Aero Davisi, 16 starts the year before, what are your sort of opinions on her as a player, Abdulla, what have you made of, of captain? Yeah, I think, you know, just, just from the fact that there's not, I mean, there's some decent footage in there, we can see that she's got a lot of, she's got a lot of, a lot of skill, a lot of technical skill, I think that's the thing that really stands out for me the most, but I think what I like is her all-round game, you know, if I'm looking at her stats, right, she definitely reminds me of a player that has both the offensive and defensive side of her game, I mean, if I'm just looking at some raw data here, I mean, 3.75 dribbles, her 90 in her, you know, in her last couple of seasons, you know, at almost a 50% win rate, along with that, you look at the other side of the game, 6.72 Interceptions for 90, and about 25.75 duels with a 60% win rate. I mean, you just take those three statistics for a second here, and from that, you can tell that this is a very good, a very, very consistent dribbler ball carrier, along with somebody who doesn't mind getting stuck in and getting into 50-50s and really putting her, putting herself about, which I think that part of the game would have probably impressed Emma Hayes more than anything else, to get someone who's physical and can shoot the WSL league, and getting somebody with, you know, she's even got like, I mean, an OK number of aerial duels, right, 2.24 aerial duels, 1 with a 40% win rate. I think that's, you know, you look at these numbers, yes, it's the area to busy. Yes, there is a ceiling there in terms of, you know, how the level of skill, but I think at that young age, it doesn't matter who you are, what league you're playing, and those numbers are impressive. Yes, you could probably do with more goals in her game. She doesn't score that many goals. I think she's only had three in her last couple of seasons here within the CIS. So I mean, maybe from a goal contribution, output perspective, there could be something more. But if we're talking about a pure box-to-box player, I think, you know, just in terms of getting the ball from one end to the other and doing good things in the offensive phase and the defensive phase, I think it's, it's probably where I think her greatest strength lies out at this, at this age. Yeah, and I think even on those comments about the area to busy, I think it's clearly a league that's really on the rise. We've seen players like Victoria Plover obviously come over to the WSL and to be honest, I think I'm surprised Arsenal don't play a more, but she's obviously like literally fitted in seamlessly into that team. Equally, you've got players like Rumi Lector, who's a striker, who I really like. She's still at Iax, but I think she's someone who could easily play in more of a traditionally big league. And, you know, we've seen obviously 20 beating Levante in these Champions League qualifiers. We saw Iax push Arsenal very, very close last year in the second round qualifiers. They really relied on Vivmida Mare basically to bail them out there. So those teams at the top of the area to busy have shown that they can really go toe to toe with the best of the best. So I think it's a really exciting league to be in at the moment. I think it's a really sensible league to be shopping in as well. At the moment, I think it makes a lot of sense. We've seen many, many Dutch players come out and look very, very good in recent years at different clubs. I think in terms of thinking about what Captain is good and what she isn't good at. I'm going to caveat this with saying that she is 18 and I do think she feels kind of rough around the edges, but I can see why lots of people are very excited about her. I think it's very clear that she really sort of throws herself into the game. You always talk about her dribbles there. She's not a midfielder who's like, she's not a holding midfielder, for example. She's not someone who's just going to sit there and play past the round. She's very all action. She wants to get forward. She's happy to find herself out on the wing. She's happy to take on players there. She helps put cross in the box. She'll take shots from the edge of the area. The goal she scored that you might have seen is a really spectacular strike sort from the edge of the area. That kind of position that she likes to shoot in. I think for me, she's sometimes a bit rash in her decision making. She's quite an ambitious passer in a fun way, but sometimes those passes aren't the passes that you should necessarily be making. But equally, I think that's one of those things which you want to see an 18 year old doing. You want them sort of to believe that they can kind of try and play that hero ball. They have that confidence and then you can sort of refine that decision making as time goes on. I think equally defensively at points, she can again sort of throw herself into the game a bit too much. But there are other points where she can look very relaxed on the ball. She's very good at sort of having that swivel of a hip type thing to get herself out of trouble in the midfield. So yeah, I think she's a really exciting player and it makes her sense to keep her where she's at, I think, in terms of the development trajectory she's on. One thing I also want to discuss before we sort of get into thinking about what this Lone Army now looks like more broadly is some of the comments which implied that Vika captain will get the unique now on treatment. I find it really funny that a unique now on is the player that seemed to be picked here. I assume it's because she's also Dutch. The treatment that you would presumably be more worried about is the Aussie Abdul-Lina treatment. But anyway, I think just generally it's really important to say that I think Chelsea are right now really pushing at the sort of frontiers of what squad book building looks like in women's football because it's a world that's changing so much and it's changing so quickly. And I think what Chelsea is doing is very sensible in that sense because we've seen that sort of competition for those very, very top players is only increasing and the number of teams that are at the top is only growing ultimately. We're seeing suddenly in the WSL we've gone from two or three teams who would be the go-to teams for players to want to go to in England and now you're adding sort of United and Villa who can either offer Champions League football or who can offer salaries or who can offer sort of the opportunity to play with other good players, all of which have obviously become very attractive. So I think to that extent identifying good young talent early makes a lot of sense. I don't know what you make about sort of this idea of looking for those players when they're younger. Oh, I think what I'd add to that as well is like also ultimately as a result players will fall by the wayside. That's the reality of these things unfortunately and that's kind of the reality of a professional football you see it even before. Lots of players unfortunately just don't make it and I think there's a lot of eyes on Chelsea as a club in terms of how they're going to do their business but I think as long as you're offering sort of players the support and the opportunities that they need and deserve like for me personally I see it kind of as clever business rather than anything else. Yeah, I think when it comes to developing a squad and kind of bringing in these players I think you're absolutely right because we were seeing while the level of women's football is going higher as we've seen in the World Cup and there are more and more players being readily available at a higher quality for teams to go and buy the very best players that are required for the top teams are getting more and more scarce and yes you can still find that merry go round of on-play at least one team that goes to another team that goes to another team etc etc but we're at a point now where you can't just rely on buying the established stars or the up and coming ones you need the younger kids to be able to come through send them out on loan and start having that churn going because it not just helps not only helps the top teams but I think it helps the mid-level team to get these players on loan to develop them and play them and do well for themselves but also then the money helps the teams that they're being bought from to be able to develop their academies and produce more more players and I think that cycle is required in order to be able to make half football produce players of the caliber required to eventually have these top stars because if it doesn't happen at one level eventually the supply gets cut off and then you kind of run out so and and you're right like not every player is going to make it like we've seen so many countless occasions and so many football clubs where you will have maybe seven top prospects probably maybe like to make it out of the seven if any and then those five end up going somewhere else and out of those five maybe three do really really well and suddenly goes oh x club should know let them go but then it's all 50 50 hindsight right it's very easy to say you know this is this is possible and that's that's not possible right you you look at you're looking at teams like Chelsea and Austin and Manchester City and and even like Leon's environment because they've got so many players that they could bring up and and do even Barcelona for example I mean Barcelona have just recruited I think four or five 16 17 year olds this summer and you know last season they had Vicky Lopez this season they've got a half few more of Italians and this and that are all four five then going to make it to the boss on the first team I highly doubt if they do then they've got incredibly lucky with their great with their scouting but I I would assume that maybe one or two make it and then they'll just sell the other three or four for for some decent profit to a team and then help them develop but then and then maybe that player ceiling is a mid-level team right and then for that team they just do really really well right now everyone's going to be a top player so I think you need that I think you need that churn and I think you need it's almost like have more aim higher to be able to get the right amounts of really good players to come out of it because the more you have the better chance you have that that one or two really make it as top-class players so you know if you're going to get and also you're going to get an outside building and an economic hour for every possibly you know like a Mike Hamano or someone like that who has the potential then I guess it is what are a new child or whatever it is what it is this this is the kind of things that's lovely to be able to get that that hit rate yeah I think the Barcelona point is a good one as well we've seen them really looked to invest in the talent I guess the thing that's kind of interesting the Barcelona have which shows you really don't have is this B team because the B team system obviously in Spain is a lot more popular and it's something that's quite controversial here in England although interestingly I do think it's something that would be a lot better suited to women's football than it would be to but maybe that's a conversation for another time let's take a quick outbreak here when we come back we will talk a bit more generally about the players out online with the busy fall season already in swing you might be looking for wholesome convenient meals for jam packed days factor America's number one ready-to-eat meal cake can help you fuel up fast with chef prepared dietitian approved ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door you'll save time eat well and stay on track with your healthy lifestyle look I just moved right and we got a conveniently time box of factor meals to the house my wife and I loved having these not frozen quick to microwave actually threw them in the toaster oven the air fryer and they heated up really quick and they were delicious I'm telling you if you're moving or if you're busy having 8 9 10 12 meals in your fridge was perfect it was the ultimate convenience they tasted well you had your main Andre with the protein veggies on the side you were good to go make sure you go check it out honestly life is too busy to 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online shop even without knowledge in programming or design test shopify costs and bring your business idea in the world go to shopify.de straight podcast 23 so in terms of sort of looking at the different lonies we've got the moment I thought it would be useful to us different shape between some of the different types of loans and I think we may as well start with with the kind of loan um that cab tines on um players who are bought from their clubs and then loaned straight back to them so we've obviously got the big cap time you're going back to f say 20 Alejandra Bernabé is staying at lariel this this year um that was their season was obviously meant to kick off this weekend actually complicatedly legal effort didn't start because if there was a strike but Bernabé wouldn't have played anyway because sausage and I would use plain levante and levante we're in the Champions League so anyway um who knows when their season will start depending on when that all gets resolved out there in Spain Brook Aspen obviously the other one going back to Bristol city to play in the WSL this season how do you think this kind of loan helps players development I think I think at least for the first season if you if you do have a two season plan two three season plans alone then I think the first season to go back to a team that's familiar or league and a team that's familiar to them I think really helps because it's just you know they've secured the move that they wanted so to speak and they get to go back and do an environment and start to thrive without the pressure in an environment they're used to and if especially if it's the same team then it's someone you know teams and players and teammates that they're used to playing playing under certain poach and they can now kind of play without that extra pressure a bit more freedom to be able to then go and perform even better and kind of unlearn their craft and kind of go from there with the added advantage that they've got a probably a technical loan offers they're kind of checking in on them and their parents are looking at them going okay where's your development where are you going um and I think for that first season it's great for them to be able to just play the same football that they've been playing kind of developed it before they go back to the parent club and decide where the next best loan is because I think then that performance and that level of where do you think that player should be going next then helps you know a club like Chelsea you know decides our next season right captain Bernabé and obviously Hamano's back and maybe maybe looks for a loan move in January uh depending on her her shoulder injury but I think if you look at Bernabé and and and and captain I think depending on how they play for their for their clubs now Chelsea will look around and go all right are you ready for the WSOL of the championship a championship right for a loan over there or do we need to send you back on loan into a foreign club again foreign league again whether that's the Spanish loan and in the in the in the case of Bernabé or do we need to send captain back maybe to from the Netherlands to Spain or from Netherlands to Germany and in that they have those discussions and decisions so I think from a development point of view in kind of letting the parents of know where they're at in a season after everything is done and they own the play and get to look at them better I think is I think super important yeah this these feel like cases where Chelsea are very aware that sort of the level that these players are playing at is the kind of level that they feel would make them ready to come over to Chelsea whenever they needed them to for me that's what kind of stands out about these loans there's like a league at FA1 WSOL1 and aerodavisi one and like as I've said obviously aerodavisi isn't sort of spoken about the same breath as WSOL or league at FA but I definitely think it's it's a really entertaining and league that's well worth watching um I think as you've said obviously helps especially with with younger players that they get to sort of stay in place you know with with the captain we're talking about someone who's 18 years old obviously that's a bit different with a with a player like Bernabé but it kind of allows Chelsea I think to identify these players and say these are players we want but we don't want to be in a position where we're necessarily like fighting loads of teams if their contract runs out and they're looking for a move we want to make sure we're in there early um the club gets to keep them for some extra time maybe then they would otherwise um but Chelsea ultimately still come out holding sort of the cards to that player at the end of it um then we've sort of got this other set of this other category where players are brought from clubs and then loaned out somewhere else so Micah Manu as to Absolina the obvious examples about this hamanu obviously back at Chelsea we talk about that in a bit uh as to Absolina with a kind of unpredictable not Chelsea future but anyway she's like gone to play with a good team uh a team so good that Absolina was able to make her debut as Paris FC did be Arsenal knocking them out on penalties um I would say it was the Absolina effect but she didn't do a whole lot she didn't play for most of the game but did you quite good job on on Lena Hurtig towards the end of the match um but obviously Abdullah this feels like sort of situations where Chelsea are like okay we like you as players we think you're good but where you are right now maybe it's not quite right maybe in hamanu's case obviously having a player out in Japan that's quite hard for club to keep an eye on um similarly I guess in also Abdullah's case Russia is a clusterfuck of politics um which really influences how you look at football there um but you know these are players who you then sort of want to play at clubs which you think are going to develop them further yeah yeah absolutely and I think I think bringing them closer to home you know within the you know within the same continent I think I think helps um and and I think that's an element of a bit more control and a bit more familiarity right if you're going to a Scandinavian league or you're going to the French league there's still an air of familiarity because scouts and coaches and and and Emma Hayes in this case and her coaching staff would be keeping an eye on these major leagues to kind of look at and go from a from a game perspective and kind of how they play and they they they would know the type of football that each of these teams will be playing and kind of how the league performs right and knowing you know within there probably within their staff they would have a list of clubs within each of the leagues going okay if we have this type of play this is to be the perfect club this would be the perfect club this would be very type of a club and having that sort of like categorize a list I think helps then being able to I mean I know you can always pick up a game and watch it on on on TV or on the computer but just to be able to fly like let's just say Chelsea want to go and see I'll to play live they send a scout they just have to go to France right it's like a couple of us from England on the Eurostar hit up a game in Paris watch here for like 90 minutes and then head back and it's much easier to be able to do that and take those close looks and have those chats with in person with with just a small trip and even with Hamano up and up and up in Scandinavia for Hammurby I think I think it's it's just easier to be able to do it because you're so familiar with the league whereas Japan's a really good league and they got really good players but it's too far right it's just you can't make that trip easily you can do everything a lot easier so they've been producing some talk to us talent and with Russia obviously same thing politics etc so it's hard and and to be fed their league standard isn't as high as as you would look anywhere else so you know you'd want to test the player in Europe somewhere just to see how they how they progress through so yeah I think I think just that air of familiarity and kind of bringing them closer to home really does help the development and kind of help the parent love make a decision on do we keep this player for the long term or do we not yeah and then sort of the final category we've got is Academy players who have gone on loan predominantly to the championship so this year we've sort of got Emily Ormond, Rihanna Blades, Lexi Possa is there I suspect that we might be getting a few more championship loans with my guests my question with with these kind of loans up to lorisa I feel like this is the loan category that sort of feels most confusing for me at the moment um ultimately we tend to see these players getting quite limited minutes we saw that last year with some of the players who went out on loan um we're kind of seeing that this year albeit it's like quite early so I don't want to judge too much but Emily Ormond sort of the only player who started games um Rihanna Blades, Lexi Possa um haven't had really any minutes um you've also sort of got Charlotte Wardlaw floating around in not quite this category because she is now Glasgow City but she's not started any games there either obviously she did have a successful championship loan but then hasn't really seemed to be able to translate that into anything else do you think this is the best place for Academy players to be ending up because it seems like something that Chelsea are like quite keen on doing but I've got to be honest I'm I'm not really seeing the benefits of it right now yeah I get that sense of agree with you there I can't see it either I mean not in the last couple of seasons last season or so have we really seen a champion I mean we've seen we've seen them in the past championship loans have worked but it's like it's like lately these the championship clubs aren't using these players as much as you'd like them to be I mean I don't know what conversations are taking place before they got on loan right because obviously there must be something where Emma Hayes and the team are talking to you know the likes of Crystal Palace and all these teams and Lewis and all that going all right giving you our player this is the development plan how to go I mean could there be an issue in training in terms of you know the coach things that the other players are training better etc etc maybe possibly I don't know but it is becoming a worrying trend where okay now Emily Omen is starting games and getting it because she's almost she's almost experienced Lonie at this point right she's gone on so many loans that people trusted that when she does go out on loan she's a really good enough goalkeeper and player to be able to perform but with the rest I think there's an air of an air of caution and just I think I think maybe there's not that full trust yet and I think maybe if they played a little bit more and I think that maybe comes a time maybe it's the same Emily Omen effect right you've got to play have a couple of loans or maybe you're playing the few games here and they build up that trust build up that experience almost and then eventually make you mock and I think the only thing that these girls can do is that the minute they get their minutes their their chances just have to impress the coach whether it's in five minutes two minutes ten minutes 20 minutes whatever it is but is a trend and I think saying that Chelsea needs to look at in terms of how they review it because if we have another season of like these players going in like Rana Blades and Lexi possibly and all that going in and not getting more than you know 1,500 minutes I would say is a fair assessment for a full season then I think there has to be a reassessment of do we even play them in the championship but we move them elsewhere and try and play them maybe in like the Netherlands like where cap time is playing and maybe that's the level that these these players maybe need to go to and maybe develop themselves over there possibly yeah I mean I think there's obviously an element whereby you're very right like it's not like the loanes should just play just because they're loanes from Chelsea like there are clubs that need to play their their best 11 and we also have had successful championship loans in the past I can be of Jones Georgia Fox you know players who then went on to have successful WSL loans and you know we're looking at Beaver Jones being in the squad this year who knows what would have happened to Fox if she hadn't done her ACL so it's not to say like it's not a foolproof path I just think it's very interesting because I feel like the championship is like a really weird league to me at the moment in that you've got lots of teams on very different trajectories you've seen teams like the London city lionesses this year by a load of kind of washed to put it impolitely WSL players sort of to bolster their ranks you know the Rooster Little Johns of this world etc etc um and it's almost like these teams are now there are a lot more interested potentially in in looking for an experience that's going to allow them to finish top of the league as opposed to developing their young players or or other people's young players you know like I was at Charlton at the weekend and I was kind of struck by how many players who were sort of you know in the 28 plus age bracket there were there there were like talented youngsters as well but you know for example Arsenal's lonely at Charlton Freycock for issues only coming on at half time so it's not a unique Chelsea problem um I just think it's quite interesting in terms of as we talk about how this sort of loan system works and what's best for those players whether that that pattern I think will be something that's interesting to see if it changes over time um do you know are there certainly things that you would like to see players being loaned to I know Chelsea Vicks applaud pretty much everywhere in Europe that you can alone a player to um we've really ticks off Italy, France, Spain, Holland and Sweden in the past two seasons um do you have in German, German loanes maybe that's what we're missing out yeah I yeah German lollies wouldn't be too bad so I think I think I think I like it in like maybe three places I think depending on the level of the player I think it would help and maybe their style would kind of go into it I wouldn't mind the Netherlands for our up and coming like I potential the cap time the Aspen the the Hamano the Bernabese like gives Sweden and Netherlands that sort of like level of treatment where all right we've got really promising youngsters that we think and play in it in a decent fast team let's put them over there I would I would actually like more French loans not being biased I would like more French loans just because I feel like the league itself could do with better players coming into the league at the at the lower at the mid to lower and the scale and you know I can imagine that if we would imagine like someone like and I'll keep going back to Hamano because it's the only player that I have in my mind right now but you go back maybe I can give you the Jones right that second I can give you Jones Georgia Fox and Mike Hamano imagine those three players playing for like a Paris FC uh Alejavra or or Ganga or Flurry right you play for these three four teams then they're playing against then that raises the level between them because anyway those teams in the middle are competing against each other once in a while they'll get a decent result against a Leon or PSG and then they get to play against Leon PSG and they get to experience that culture that different type of that different player so I think that's a decent that's a decent place to be able to go and see how these sort of players would do and I kind of finally low key I like Italy I like now in loans a Milan I thought it was a really good move I thought she really benefited from there and I actually think Italy is going to be one of those leagues in the next couple of seasons that is up and coming where we're going to starting a lot more players by being players from the Italian to big teams going to buy players from the big Italian teams and stop becoming more world class and kind of big up onto the stage like you've got like so you've got really good German players English players French players Australians etc etc but I I feel like that Italian the Italians are up and coming next obviously you're born and says and all that and probably in one of the top players out there but I think sooner rather than the leagues are getting better Inter Roma, Juventus and Milan are like four and maybe even so so all like four or five teams are competing for the top players at least the Inter Milan Inter Milan Juventus and Roma those are the four teams that actually have really good players and they're constantly fighting for the top four which in and of itself is a very competitive league so I think if you can if we can take our players to that league and especially within those top four I think I think there's a really good chance of developing and and regularly playing high competitive football in a semi-decent league that's growing. Yeah I totally agree and I think I think where I'd like to see Chelsea maybe looking in terms of placing players actually in sort of any of the top European leagues. Yeah I like it's really a lot as a league. I've actually really enjoyed watching more Swedish football because of mica being there. I think it's very underrated as a place to be as well but I think in terms of the next step after these championship loans you know if we are talking about players getting minutes I kind of feel like the then trying to put a player at a WSL club is the kind of bit that's not really working for me just because obviously naturally Chelsea aren't going to put a player they think that's really good at any of their rivals so immediately your sort of and would any of the rivals want to take a Chelsea loany because that looks kind of weird for them too so immediately you're then cutting out sort of the top third of the table. Now I don't think Chelsea are going to be able to loan a player to Barcelona or to a Leon for example but yeah if you can look at teams that are sort of competing in the top third of those tables they're going to be the level of the other teams they might potentially even get to play champions league football as we're seeing with with some players but they're not sort of like directly competing with you and they're not like affecting your pre-existing relationships within the WSL so I think that would be really interesting thing to see maybe how that changes as time goes on. Just sort of to finish off this section I want to talk a bit about some of the players Chelsea has developed in the past because I think another thing that people seem to really forget is like Chelsea haven't necessarily been doing this on an international scale in terms of sort of buying European players and then developing them but they've done it on a British scale and just kind of some of the players who I wanted to chat through in terms of joining the club at quite a young age and going on to do very very well. Aaron Coughborough obviously joined Chelsea at 18 and is pretty much nailed on starter at the club. Neve Charles joined Chelsea at 21 and I think has had a bit of a rockier path maybe than Aaron Coughborough but has definitely sort of really improved I think over the past couple of years. Jess Coughborough is someone who was you know seen as very precotiously phenomenally talented joined Chelsea at 20 and obviously you know started for England at the World Cup this year and Beth England maybe a more interesting example of someone who's gone through the alone system at Chelsea joining Chelsea at 22 but spending a season at Liverpool before sort of making her way to to being a more regular player for Chelsea obviously now moved on to top them and I have to like I guess the reason I want to point it this out is that all the shows that you know whilst maybe there are more players in and around this system in terms of developing players sort of 22 and under to become first team starters Chelsea have many many examples of having done that over the past couple of years they're not a club it's wrong to characterize them as a club who only by players out their peak. 100% 100% and you look at each of these four players that you've listed right like each of them have become starters but Chelsea they're very regular on a very regular times like Aaron Coughborough now I don't think you can see a first team without her name on it that's how good Aaron Coughborough has become. Jess Coughborough is another one now that's really cemented herself I think last season was the peak of Jess Coughborough and the fact that she was starting for England at a World Cup that reached the final I think it's just a testament to the way she's developed at Chelsea because it wasn't for that she wouldn't be in that position. Kneeve Charles I think is probably the one that has been playing well and has had more and more starts as the seasons have gone on by still think there's maybe a level that she needs to reach to really become a nailed on solid but there is Clare development there in terms of a player that is good and that is getting better and and just as benefited from from the development of Emma Hayes and Beth England I mean you look at that I mean she she she comes in play six games doesn't really have 20 minutes goes to Liverpool scores 10 goals comes back to Chelsea and has you know three back to back double digit scoring seasons and then scores important goals and then kind of becomes this player that you know this player that is so super important to to Chelsea and even help to win a cup of titles so I mean you look at that I think if anything Chelsea themselves have really made themselves work as a club to develop younger players and get them to start and think testament to Emma Hayes is development as a manager you know people say that you know she stopped probably all these talents and all these players but when you've got players like this who have shown time and time again different examples of players who've started off as like you know I mean let's just take the example of Jess Kotts I mean how many times over the last few couple years of podcasting we've done we've always questioned is Jess Kotts good enough she does very inconsistent is she good enough is she good enough is she good enough and now we're like season in a half in a row we're like two seasons we're like that's probably the most improved play there and then now now you're looking at it going can we really drop Jess Kotts up on the side I don't think so right it's we're getting to that point of the equation now you're like 18 months ago 20 you know 36 months ago 24 months ago you're not thinking that you're you're going well you know is it I mean if Jess Kotts would go is it really that much you know those are the kind of thoughts you'd be having so I would say that you know it's it's great and you know if there are very very talented players and which is why maybe someone like Mike Humano she stays for the rest of the season it's not maybe the entirely a bad thing right because then you know that there's a track record of developing world class players and actually players with talents and then making them into really really good talent so yeah I can I can see that being a thing all right then let's take another outbreak here and we will have a little bit of Mystic Meg prediction fun when we're back there is no i in team but there is one in indeed and that's the hiring platform you need to build yours when you're hiring you need indeed one of the things I love about indeed is that they make hiring all in one place it's easy because well candidates you invite are three times more likely to apply to your job than candidates to only see it in the search when you get one step closer to the higher by immediately matching you with a quality candidate it makes it go faster and when you're looking to hire the quicker you get the right person in the role the better so start hiring now with a seventy five dollar sponsored job credit to upgrade your job post at indeed dot com slash blue wire sports that offers good for a limited time so claim your seventy five dollar credit now indeed dot com forward slash blue wire sports just go to indeed dot com slash blue wire sports and support the show by saying you heard about it on this podcast indeed dot com forward slash blue wire sports terms and conditions apply need to hire you need indeed so i think part of the fun of this and this comes from me be feeling like i've got quite a clear idea of of who this will work out for and who this won't and i could be very much wrong because things can change a lot especially with young players but i think the way Chelsea have developed some players rather than others hints at that but let's have a little bit of prediction around what Chelsea women's squad in twenty twenty five twenty six would look like so two seasons from now and basically add to that i kind of want to put you on the spot and say from our nine current lonies but i will also add in academy players who've been in around the first team squad recently so Amy Claypole, Ashanti Akapan, Lucy Watson and Keras Brown who do you think is they don't have to be a starter but is part of that twenty five player squad that we're looking at kicking off the season two years from now all right i think i'm going to go with four players like if i can i'm going to go four players i think my carmano i think there's too much talent there for her not to be bothered by Chelsea starting eleven i'm going to go i'm going to go with uh wiki cap time i think i think you know picking up someone so young playing so many minutes i think there is in development there that can happen i think she needs another couple of good years but i think if she can she can progress i think she can be in and around that i will give the third one to um i have a feeling broke aspen might just be in and around so i'll give broke aspen uh a third one just to center back millie bright isn't getting any younger and you know Chelsea we'll be looking towards the next generation defenders to come through and the last one's last one's fifty fifty for me because i don't know because i have i have two players in mind i either for me it's going to be um one of the ones that are actually out on loan of which there are two or one of the academy players i have a feeling that um i have a feeling that one of Amy Claypole or Charlotte Wardlaw i think will be around for me i'm i don't know which one but i think one of them will will be there you know what just for the lords i'm just going to say Amy Claypole so for me those are the four that i think will be around like two seasons time okay interesting very very interesting picks um i agree with you on on mica um i feel like she is obviously sort of switcheroo for franc herbie in the squad at some point um i agree with you about broke aspen um i think they'll definitely be room at center back whether that's from millie bright playing potentially less minutes but i honestly feel like she's the kind of person you could go and go but potentially marimie elder not being part of the squad unique now and probably not going to be part of the squad at that point so i feel like they'll be room at center back um for a player like aspen the midfielders are a bit of a question mark for me and i think you'll be really interesting to see how this develops over the next two years because i think captain and potter are both players who Chelsea clearly rate very very highly and and justifiably so but there's a hell of a lot of midfielders floating around so obviously in the moment we've got so fingle mally loypolt air and cusp purchasing flaming uh you don't have a chunk of it and shokunaskun you then got charlotte wardlaw and a shanty aqpan big cap time and like spotter so in terms of like who's not there in two years to open up the gaps like i'm really not sure um ingle would be the obvious one i guess um and i potentially a chunk of it um maybe moving on as well um so there would be spots there but it would be surprising to me of both of them were able to come in at the same time um i do think burner bay as well but will be interesting but i feel like of all of the sort of lonies you've gone back to their parents clubs she's got the one who's got the most growing to do and maybe that's maybe i only think that because she's the eldest um you know i think there are like things in cap times game that aren't great but i'm like yeah she's 18 so she's got more time um whereas burner bay doesn't doesn't have as much time um but maybe one who i'll do a curveball that you did as well um but potentially Lucy Watson she's obviously somebody who we haven't really talked about much because she didn't play any football last year because she did a ACL um you know she went to chocolate alone and then never played for them um it'll be very interesting to see what happens with her she was like it was super hype when she was signed and unjustifiably so um she was a very precocious player um someone who could score goals someone who could attack very well i do think Chelsea are equally stacked in those areas but um it feels like she could be someone who potentially might have the opportunity to sort of show where she is post ACL but it'll definitely be an interesting one to look at because uh she only started two year contract so i don't really know what's happening with that and yeah that one is feels a bit more out there and a bit more up in the year but i think basically what we've both settled on abdala is that there are some very obvious switches in and out for players who are nearing the end of their Chelsea careers not like imminently but within the sort of next two to four years um i guess interestingly maybe we'll go here next just to sort of finish off it is to touch on uh meli loypals who retired from the German national team today as an Olympic and European champion with 79 caps basically she said she wanted to kind of show she could win back her national team spot after giving birth but she had a sum with her at the World Cup it made her realise like how energy is happening that was and she just wanted to put her full focus on club football uh she said i'm very proud of what i've achieved national team now it's time for my full focus on my club Chelsea because i want to live up to the high level that and achieve all my sports and girls with a hundred percent energy um this is like a pretty um like shocking decision i think right you know loypals is 29 years old um she doesn't turn 30 till next April um but clearly she sort of feels like the club is is where she wants her focus to be yeah it was it was definitely a surprising decision i mean i don't think i don't think any of us saw that coming but you know at the same time i think i think she i think i think being at the World Cup and kind of playing obviously starting the first game and maybe not playing the rest of it as much as she wanted maybe was also kind of a moment for her to realise me do you know do i have a place in the scene do i not because when you look at that Germany would feel right they know a bit of such uh such kind of skin right Sydney Lowman Sarada brits Lena Latvian Nina McGull you know you know you've got like five or six it's hot class center midfielders in there of which there's possibly two maybe three positions to play right and yes germany could do with depth and she's one of the more experienced players in there to come in and and i think she's still first thing i think she'll she has a lot to offer but the fact that if she's saying that it was energy sapping she wasn't feeling you know too great about the whole thing once we put her focus for Chelsea then fair enough from where we've seen players retire at the age of 29 31 from the national teams to be able to play more club football um i mean there's not that many players that play to the age of 35 36 37 now i mean at least so far so you would think i mean you look at someone like Stephanie van der Gracht who's like retired at the age of like what 30 30 31 32 from the national team and from football in general that was the last you know time she played so um you know you're getting these younger retirements or at least from the national team so that they can focus more on club football and i think it also they look back and they see all right we've got this long line of players that are coming through you know the mid the the future of the position is safe especially in germany's case when you look at low minus 23 overdorf is 21 lap minus 23 and he'll live on this 20 right you've got that you've got that used in there and you've got lean number ghoul Linda Dalman and saturday shooting coming and bring that experience experience in there so i think based on that based on what she said she wants to play a bit more for Chelsea and and you know um do that i think fair enough and hey it benefits us one extra player to be there during the international break that's fresh to come back when we when we need to play those immediate games yeah definitely i mean it's absolutely fantastic for Chelsea and i hope it's a great decision for for low paltz and you know it's something that that works out for her i just think it's it's a massive shame for her that um sort of her international career had to end with that that group stage exit i know she said maybe she she wanted the opportunity to place one more time for germany as a goodbye but we'll see what i guess what happens with that um final little bit of Chelsea news is micahamano which we've kind of referenced on and off throughout the episode but um you know i think most people knew that she was back at Chelsea um basically Chelsea have said that she needs surgery um on her shoulder injury so i think she's going to be out for a number of months um so our ham beloans effectively over interestingly Chelsea have given her the number 23 so she has a number in the squad um but yeah obviously that'll be one to keep an eye on in terms of seeing what happens and how her rehab goes all right abdala thank you very much for joining me today thank you very much it was fun all right we will be back later in the week but until then Chelsea fans you know what to do keep the blue flag flying high you