Hi, this is Melissa Wood-Teperberg and this is the Move With Heart podcast.
Are you ready?
Just breathe it all in.
I want to talk.
I can't lie.
I was like, it's going to be short, sweet and very spicy.
And we're going to get right into it because apparently something you're going to talk
too much.
So happy to have this conversation.
I feel like every episode I start, I'm just like, I'm so, I really look forward to these
conversations.
But this one in particular, through going through this process with Kim and really just experiencing
it through her eyes and being support for her during this, I've never, you know, I never
froze my eggs.
I have people in my life who have, but this felt so different.
Just really being a part of it every step of the way.
And Dr. Hancock, it's so nice to have you here.
Thank you.
And support of all things you have been Kim's doctor throughout this process.
And she's just literally raved about you in spring fertility to everyone.
And now I know why from the second that I met you and stepped into the facility, it
really was, I think I can speak for him and say this.
It was the best decision that we made together by far.
Good.
We made a lot of decisions.
We did a good job.
Cheers to that.
Cheers to our Selenik crystals that we're all holding and grounding together.
I love it.
So I would love to just start, Kim, with, I know I feel like this is such an open-ended
question, but for you to really share the process of what brought you to even deciding
at this point in your life to freeze your eggs and what the experience was like for
you.
Yeah.
I think that was actually a big question in deciding to share this.
Certainly on my social media, a lot of people are asking me why I decided to freeze my eggs
and certainly at 41.
And interestingly enough.
I thought about it multiple times in my 30s.
And I just, I mean, certainly there was a point in my life where I couldn't afford to
freeze my eggs.
And then I was dating someone who had kids and didn't want kids.
And I thought that that was okay and that was going to be my life and then found myself
turning 40 and was dating someone who was a couple of years younger than me.
And it was a concern of his that I hadn't frozen my eggs.
And at the time I was highly offended that he said that to me.
But it really made me think that it hit me like, wow, I am 40.
And then I was surely single after that.
But I was, I realized, wow, this could happen where I've aged out and can't have children.
And so I really decided it was time for me to freeze my eggs because I didn't want to
miss the opportunity.
I wanted to do everything in my power that I could to be able to have a decision one day
to have children.
So I decided to freeze my eggs.
And as you know, and you know, I saw many places prior to finding spring.
And I think that for me as someone and I have a history with Lyme disease, so I feel like
I've seen countless doctors in my life.
And so finding Dr. Hancock, I instantly knew like the time that like your ability to listen
and I can talk your ability to listen is you should win an award.
Oh, just learn.
But yeah, more many years.
But yeah, thank you.
But you'd be surprised.
I feel like how many doctors don't listen.
And I hate to say that.
But you, the time you took to explain every step of this process and procedure and then
also adjust it for me and my body and my health and what I've been through.
It just, it was, I walked out of the office that day and called Melissa immediately and
I'm like, this is it.
It's it's a nice thing.
Yeah.
For fertility.
Thank you.
Because you have, I mean, you have just been such an angel throughout this whole process,
it really made me feel so comfortable and helped me with other health stuff other than
just freezing my eggs.
And so I'm beyond grateful.
So thank you.
You're welcome.
That's what that's my job.
But but I think for a lot of women, the decision making process of should I freeze eggs?
Should I not?
For most people, it just comes down to like you need, you want to have as many options
as possible.
And so you may never use these eggs.
These eggs may be your first baby.
They may be your third baby after having two babies naturally or conceiving naturally.
So they sort of can can open up a lot of options.
And unfortunately nowadays, reproductive options is not, is sort of coming under attack from
multiple angles.
Thankfully, as of now, IVF and and and I'm freezing are fairly safe, but you want to
have as many options as as possible.
And and it's really empowering for a lot of women to have that option because all of
us are are have a lot more life up.
Like we have a lot more career opportunities and things that we want to do with our life,
places that we want to go, things to do, people to see and and childbearing for most
women has gone up like so much.
In New York City, the age of first at your first delivery in the past, like 10 years
has gone up by like five or six years, like a lot.
Like people are really delaying child and that's a very small sample size.
That's like Manhattan.
Right.
But even like across the country, the middle of the country, thankfully, it's gone up by
like 15 years because there used to be like it was like you had a baby when you were like
20.
And so that's all like amazing, but it but because there's biology that we can't ignore,
you want to preserve options for the future.
And so I think that that's really what it comes down to for a lot of people.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm so happy.
And again, I feel like I heard a lot of people say like, Oh, you'll have this sense
of empowerment and through the process.
I can't say that I like felt it through the process, but there absolutely was something
after a while.
Yeah.
And I feel like people are talking about there is this sense of, I don't know, I feel like
I could breathe a little bit like, okay, I did it.
And you know, the rest isn't up to me, but I feel like I did everything I could to prepare
myself.
And for that, I'm so grateful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the other thing you said, you probably experienced this a lot with a lot of people
like who are messaging you and because you have like a lot of influence over people and
you find that when you're like talking to people and trying to like help others and
give people information, listening can sometimes be like the best, easiest thing to do.
Like you basically told me your diagnosis.
And like all I had to do was listen and put two and together and do a couple ultrasounds
and we figured out what was going on.
And it's as simple as that.
And it gets lost.
Like I don't know, sometimes people just gets lost when you get really busy and you're trying
to like go, go, go and do, do, do.
But if you just go down and listen to people, you can like you hear way more than they're
even saying.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's so true.
I will say that one of the greatest gifts having a podcast has taught me and it's it's
so interesting because even like the first I want to say I was going to say handful, but
it's a couple handfuls of episodes.
I really feel as if I'm a good listener, but there's something so interesting in these
moments where I'm like, I feel like I have to say something because it's for the listener
and I'm like, no, all you have to do is listen.
And even with like having support cards, I'm like, when you listen to people, it's a whole
new world and perspective just opens up and I feel like even with you, Kim, like through
this process, I didn't have a lot to say.
Like, I've never been through this before and to experience it through watching her and
being on FaceTime with you and like getting emotional with you and all I could do was
listen, but there's so much power in the support of listening and even like having
her walk away from being in the office with you and feeling so good after being listened
to.
It's powerful.
Yeah.
It's really powerful.
It's like healing as a dog.
It's like a really good tool as a physician to be like this person now feels heard and I
figured out what's going on with them.
Yes.
And you share, Kim, just a little bit because I know people were so interested when we were
sharing it on social media, just a little about your personal experience because I know
it really affects everyone differently.
Yes.
And to just dive a little bit on what it was like for you.
Yeah.
Certainly, I know a lot of people that have gone through the process and I feel like somehow
a lot of friends that have gone through it kind of really breezed through it.
And I think that I also thought I was going to breeze right through it.
And I learned pretty quickly that estrogen pills made me feel, watch out.
I was, I should still say, I'm sorry to my mother.
I was very irritable on estrogen bills for eight long days.
And then I started the injections and thankfully, Dana from Spring Fertility was my nurse.
And that for me also, I chose to have a nurse.
It was really overwhelming for me to think about doing injections on my own.
I am not a needle person.
And then also kind of, I mean, you really did the measuring of what I should be doing,
but just like kind of doing the medication was overwhelming to me.
So I chose to have a nurse come to the house and give me my injections, which was a luxury.
And I'm so happy I did it.
So that for me was very helpful, but I will say on the injections, I definitely started
to feel a bit depressed.
And I was definitely crying.
I stayed home throughout most of it.
I just kind of hid, which was also a nice time to just take for myself.
And then thankfully between your support and your support, it really walked me through.
That was normal.
And I also am so thankful for sharing it on Instagram.
I don't even think I'm still through all of the messages I received.
The support I had throughout this process through my Instagram following and your community,
the MWH community is strong.
It really is and so supportive.
And just message it.
I mean, I cried reading them like the love and prayers and encouragement and other women
sharing their journeys and how they felt.
I couldn't believe I still and like I said, I really not even through all of them.
I tried every day.
I was like, I'm going to do 50 a day and then I get through 100.
I'm like, how do I still have 200 more?
Wow.
I'm really like again, beyond grateful for it because it made me feel normal.
I really again thought I was just going to skip through this and it was two weeks of
injections, but it was really a lot and it brought up a lot.
It brought up that I am 41 and I am single and I don't have a kid and will I have a kid
and all the things that got me to that exact place.
And so therapy was really great to have during this.
I have it all the time once a week, but it was again, another outlet that was incredibly
supportive and also a great learning opportunity for me to look at.
I think I never, this is a big one.
I think I never allowed myself to really feel like I wanted to have kids because I didn't
want to be disappointed if it didn't happen.
And that was such a big realization for me doing this egg freezing.
Which is a little scary to feel that.
All of a sudden to decide to allow yourself to feel that.
And I feel like a lot of patients go through it.
The first night of injections, here I am doing my injections for the first time by myself.
And this is just that realization of where you are, which is not a good thing or a bad
thing.
It's just sort of coming to that realization is a lot to end up with all the hormones and
everything else.
Yeah.
And it was also interesting that I wasn't anticipating this, but I think so many people
again sent these beautiful messages, but a lot of women were like, your baby's coming.
And then I would get this like, but what if it's not?
Yeah.
And that was an interesting element.
And again, the wishes for it are so kind and sweet and obviously coming from a good
place.
And I think that's where I really had this deep dive and how did I get to this age and
how did I not think to do this sooner or am I ever going to have them or why haven't
I prioritized this?
And so it was really, it was like a 24 day therapy event as well.
But again, so grateful for all of it because I learned so much about myself through it
as we do with everything.
So I mean, from like an outsider looking in, you were so strong.
And you just like, I know it was a lot emotionally to witness, but you did it.
And like you just like stayed so strong and talked to people when you needed to talk,
cried out like you got it all out.
And you just like stay focused.
Yeah.
And also helped having you there.
I mean, really and truly, which I think was such a unique, you know, that you could step
in and be my partner was so helpful.
And I think that, you know, I do think I feel like you could put us anywhere and we'd be
laughing.
So yeah, for sure.
And we could be enjoyed it.
Yeah.
So I think you coming to my appointments with me, like where some of it could have felt daunting
that I was doing it alone.
I had you there.
And so it didn't, it didn't feel like I was alone.
So that, thank you.
I mean, there was a game changer.
Literally nothing else I would have rather have been doing than be there with you.
Truly.
Thank you.
You had her laughing like five minutes after she came out of the OR.
Don't make her laugh that much.
She means to myself.
I know I was like, I used to go.
It's really true.
You offered me your juice and your snacks.
You remember?
You were like, get her one.
And after you remember that?
Yeah.
I was like, I'll take it.
Dr. Hancock, can you share?
Because I think people are so confused.
Like, what is egg freezing?
And then to also just to expand on that, like what is the difference between egg freezing
and IVF?
Okay.
Very good question.
So, and you've heard most of this before, but basically women were born with all the eggs
we ever have, and it's like a set number.
And we sort of gradually use them up throughout our lifespan until you go through menopause,
at which point you have very few eggs left.
And by comparison, men have these like special cells and they're, those cells are constantly
pumping out sperm by the hundreds of millions.
So there is no shortage of sperm.
And any one sperm is only ever like two or three months old.
So they're constantly brand new.
Our eggs, since we're born with all of them, are their exact opposite.
They're literally some of the oldest cells in your entire body.
Most of your other cells get turned over and regenerated.
Your eggs, you're literally born with all your eggs.
What happens is each month, your ovary, when realizes you're not pregnant, your ovary
like activates and offers up a group of eggs for a chance at ovulation for that next menstrual
cycle.
And your brain is smart and knows you only want to have one baby at a time.
So your brain sends this hormone to that group of eggs, but it only sends just enough for
one of them to grow and ovulate in a natural menstrual cycle.
And that's why you ovulate one egg each month and we usually have one baby at a time.
And the brain being smart, it's only given enough egg growing hormone for one of them
to grow.
And so the other ones that were offered up for that month, like disintegrate and die off
in their lost from your ovarian reserve.
So our ovaries are wasting a whole bunch of eggs each month.
And that's why your reserve sort of gradually goes down.
When we're doing IVF or egg freezing and getting the eggs is exactly the same, the
first half, whether you freeze them as eggs or turn them into embryos.
And so what we do is we basically sneak in, right, when those ovaries have offered up
that group of eggs for the next month.
And the injections that you take, same exact hormone that your brain is sending to your
ovaries, but we just give you more enough, ideally, for all the eggs that your ovaries
offered up for that month to grow.
And then rather than letting you ovulate all of them, we go in and do the retrieval and
we collect all the eggs.
So we're basically like rescuing the eggs that would have otherwise been lost for that
month.
So we don't, doesn't change your ovarian reserve, doesn't like dip into your future
ovarian reserve.
Yeah, or change your fertility or anything.
Because those eggs, once your ovary offers them up, it's like use it or lose it.
So you want to, we're just basically giving you enough to grow all of them instead of
just one.
And then we retrieve all of the eggs.
And if we're freezing the eggs, they get frozen at that point.
If you're making embryos and freezing embryos, like for future use, they would get fertilized.
Each egg gets a sperm injected into it or gets fertilized by putting a bunch of sperm
on the egg.
They all swim on and one makes it through.
And then it grows from an egg and it starts to divide.
So it's one cell is an egg and then it goes, two cells, four cells, eight cells and it
keeps growing and growing and growing over the course of five days, five to six days.
So it's an embryo and then it's got a couple hundred cells.
And then that embryo can either be frozen if you are going to wait to use it or can
go back into your uterus like the next month.
And that would be IVF.
Like growing the eggs, making embryos and going back into your uterus, that's the whole
process for IVF.
Got it.
And so it's really where, what are you doing with the eggs?
Are they getting frozen now versus becoming embryos?
The choice between freezing eggs versus freezing embryos for the future depends on a lot of
things.
If you have a partner or somebody that you know you're going to build a family with,
you can think potentially about freezing embryos.
If you don't have that, then you might lean towards freezing eggs and eggs are your property.
They belong only to you.
Embryos are technically joint property.
And so you essentially sign a legal agreement that you are to use the embryos, you have
to agree to parenthood.
And so if you make embryos and then that person ends up not being the person that you're eventually
make a family with, then both people have to agree to use the embryos.
Remember, Sophia Vergara had a huge public fight?
I think that they had made embryos and he wanted to use them and she didn't want to.
And so he didn't have access.
I have a question because I feel like one thing I've learned through this process is
like freezing your eggs is it's a great security as far as like having an option like you
sat right and then to increase those options of the chances of like the eggs being good
quality.
I mean, this is something I've learned through so many friends doing this.
Can you share a little bit about like that process and how because necessarily just because
you have eggs doesn't mean.
Right.
Can we talk about that?
Yes.
So because that's really important because you could freeze eggs and it's a good thing
and you feel great about it.
What does it actually like what actually does it mean and like how is there any data on
on what the utility of those eggs are.
And so what we have and there's a few there's a few studies that are a little outdated at
this point but internally at spring what we've done is we've tracked in each age group how
the frozen eggs perform.
And so we can give you like a likelihood based on how average 40, 41 year old eggs perform.
This is the likelihood you have X number of eggs.
You froze at 40 years old.
This is the likelihood of becoming a live birth.
And where we get those numbers from is from studying how the eggs perform basically.
And so you have your eggs frozen and then they have to get warmed.
And so they that not all the eggs survived the thought for instance in our lab 93% survived
the thought that's a lot.
It's good.
That's pretty good.
Industry standards probably like 85 to 90% across the country.
And then the eggs get fertilized.
So each egg gets a sperm injected into it about 75% fertilized normally.
And then from there the the egg starts to divide.
So that's what I was talking about goes to two cells or cells eight cells until it gets
to be an embryo and it's got a couple hundred cells.
And not all of them make it to the embryo face probably about 40% make it to embryos.
Once we have an embryo then we can take a few cells from the outside of the embryo and
do genetic testing on those cells to confirm is this embryo normal does it have two copies
of all the chromosomes.
And the percent of embryos that are normal is dependent on the age of which you froze
the eggs.
So at 40 we would expect probably about 25 to 30% to be normal.
And so when you break it down you're sort of unfortunately losing at each step.
And so what you want to take into consideration is what are you starting with at the top of
that funnel and what is your age because age determines the ability of the eggs to get
to the embryo phase and the proportion of those embryos that are going to be normal.
And so that's what you want to walk through.
And that's what we went through.
Remember that pyramid diagram that I should do because because that really tells you what
the utility is going to be like specifically for you.
And that I think is is really is really helpful because some people great frozen eggs never
had a follow up didn't know what any of those numbers were they go back to use their eggs.
And with all that drop off they might not end up with much to work with.
And so you want to really talk talk to your doctor like we did about numbers.
What do these numbers actually look like and what is your goal in terms of how many eggs
how many kids you want and sure coming up with a plan because it's very different from
person to person.
But I think knowing that those numbers well at that step even though it's many years from
now is really helpful to understand.
Yeah, I have to say that that was another thing that with you at spring that in my other
appointments no one explained that to me.
And so you were the and that was our first appointment together you went through all
of that.
And that was so helpful and eye opening and then I think I was able to go into the process
with that in mind so that I had it so I'm not surprisingly wrong.
And so that was super helpful and again had several appointments before that that was
never said.
That's the most important part.
When that's the most important part.
What do you think?
Like you really need to know like what do you what does it mean like great so you had
eight eggs or nine eggs or twenty eggs whatever you have like what does that actually mean
right and and that does get lost I think sometimes.
I think that's the other really wonderful thing about spring is that I didn't feel like a
number.
I felt like a person and again like you really catered this to me and my needs and where I
am in my life my age all the factors and again explained it so it's in such a detail that
I really knew what I was walking into and again it just was you know it's such an easy
decision when I walked.
I literally walked out of the office and called Melissa and then we were like let's do it.
Yeah let's go.
Here we go.
Let's make the eggs.
And I mean everything Kim has said it and then like meeting you and when you told me that
you recommend MWH to people I was like what yeah I was like this is just like life synchronicities
like it's so crazy.
It's a good thing to do during the work standing series.
No yeah.
When I was like do her standing arms during my arms to do bulky.
I'm not doing that.
Yeah like staying away from the arms right now and you did tell me to get off my bosu
ball.
I know.
I know.
Right well there were certain things that were there certain things you recommend when
it comes to working out during the egg freezing process and after can you share maybe a little
bit on that because I think it's really important.
Yeah definitely.
So during egg freezing or IVF certainly you so the first few days of injections your ovaries
aren't that much bigger than they normally are but the way your ovaries are in your pelvis
is they're like kind of like a ball on a string and so your ovary is suspended between
these two ligaments that have the blood vessels that feed the blood to your ovary.
And as that ovary gets bigger and bigger as all the eggs grow the risk is that the ovary
can twist and that's something called ovarian torsion and that like kinks off the blood
supply and anytime your ovaries are enlarged that can happen and so what we recommend is
first couple days of injections you can probably do what you normally do but pretty much for
most of the cycle through to like a good week out from the cycle your ovaries are still
enlarged and we want to just keep your pelvis really still.
No like high intensity, no twisting, no like inversions and then standing up anything that's
going to like rock your pelvis around and put the ovaries at risk of sort of like flopping
over we ask people to avoid but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't move at all.
We just recommend basically that people stick to things like standing series or treadmill
like walking, walking an incline you can do arm series you can do things with like squats
and pliers but as long as your like pelvis is staying relatively still you can definitely
still move and people feel much better when they do.
You've got a lot of water weight also your estrogen goes really up it's your own estrogen
that your ovaries are making but anytime your estrogen is high you're at an increased risk
for blood clots and so keeping your blood moving and keeping moving is always really
helpful and really healthy and also the mental aspect of it just helps you feel so much more
whole and strong and healthy and in charge during a time when you're not really in charge.
I'm telling you what to do with your body when to take an injection, when to come to
my office like come back you know and we're asking you to do a lot of things that you
don't you sort of have to leave it up to fate with your doctor and your ovaries and that's
really challenging for a lot of people and so taking care of yourself doing exercise,
eating well, sleeping well, having support friends like Melissa and psychiatrist, whatever
your group of things that help you feel well and healthy and even and like have mental
fortitude is like so important and so it's like really one of the like I really truly
do recommend it to people because they it helps a lot.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, it like really touches my heart to hear that from you and I really appreciate it.
Yeah.
And I hope it helps people.
I know the days you moved you felt so much better.
So much better and I was a lot of incline walking and then I mean there was one day
where I really had a good burst and did a bit of an earlier and did you know more of
like a yoga sculpt and those workouts felt great to me but then but then I was getting
pain on my left side from assist and so then after that that started I really kind of stopped
moving and just stuck to walking like late walking but it felt so good to move as always,
yeah.
Can you share some ways for women to naturally optimize their fertility?
Yeah.
So natural fertility is predicated on one basic thing which is that you ovulate at some
kind of regular frequency where you know that you're ovulating and you know when to have
sex once you ovulate middle of the month usually say you have regular like 30 day long cycles.
The egg once it's released only lives for like less than 24 hours like maybe 18 hours
and is a very short half life once it's released but the sperm can live for like 72 hours in
the fallopian tubes.
So ideally you've had sex like in the days leading up to when you ovulate and then the
sperm are like kind of there waiting when you when the egg gets released and I had no idea
fertilize.
I know.
Wow.
And so actually it's like those like four or five days before you ovulate are like the
most fertile times once egg is released it's got like a very short clock and so for most
people optimizing natural fertility really comes down to like being very in tune with
your menstrual cycle and there's many ways to do this.
You can just monitor your sort of like your mucus like your vaginal discharge gets a
little bit different when you're ovulating.
It's like a little more like like clear and stretchy and so that can be one way to monitor.
You can monitor body temperature so after you ovulate your body temperature goes up
by like about one degree.
You have to take your temperature like first thing in the morning to have it be to have
it be something that you can track and use reliably and apps can be helpful.
So what the apps do is it basically calculates that when you ov you put in a couple menstrual
cycles and it tend they tend to like correct and get a little bit more accurate.
And so once you ovulate and egg is released it's always going to be a fixed 14 days until
you get your next period.
The reason that people have different cycle lengths like one person is 27, one person is
35, one person is 26 is the time from when you get your period to when you grow the egg
and it gets ready to ovulate that can be very different.
For most people it's about two weeks from the day you get your period until you ovulate
and then two weeks from when you ovulate to the next period.
But for some people it's a week and a half.
For some people it's three weeks before you ovulate, some people it's four weeks before
you ovulate and so that's where we get the difference in the length and menstrual cycles.
And so as long as it's something that you can figure out you can usually get to a place
where you can know when your fertile window is.
So I think that's probably like the number one thing for optimizing natural fertility.
Because a lot of people are out of touch with their menstrual cycle.
I know.
They really are.
And I feel like a lot of people have been on various types of birth control and they
think that they have regular periods but they've actually been on birth control for a really
long time and then when they stop because the birth control programs your menstrual
cycles they're like oh actually I don't, my period is totally irregular.
And so that can be, I think that can be something that people like work struggle with a little
bit getting ready to start trying.
And did you, sorry say to me the other day, correct me if I'm wrong but I think this
was helpful if you're on the pill on birth control you don't actually ovulate.
Is that right?
Correct.
Exactly.
And you wouldn't know what the signs are of ovulation.
Right.
It'll be a totally new thing for you.
Yeah.
How long does someone need to be off birth control in order to go to move through with the
egg freezing process successfully?
It depends on the person so a lot of people they can, we can stop the birth control and
they can start the injections for their egg freezing process like a few days later.
For some people their ovaries, it depends on kind of, it's not really how long you've
been on birth control.
Some people are like a little more sensitive than others and so their ovaries get a little
suppressed and it can take a long time for that the ovaries to kind of perk up and really
offer up eggs and so some people they do a little better if they go off for like up
to like two to six weeks before starting the cycle usually not longer than that.
So it depends on the person.
That's something after we do the first ultrasound we kind of get a sense of and then we kind
of go from there.
Great.
IUD can stay in now.
Oh it can.
Yeah.
The whole time.
Wow.
We're not doing anything with the uterus.
Just kind of pangs out there.
We're mostly focused on the ovaries.
Right.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's really incredible.
The whole process.
It really is.
And so detailed and specific.
And again, Dr. Hancock just really, I thought it was another thing and just again and listening
to other people's journeys again just like how specific you were with all of my injections
and just watching all of the eggs and seeing the sizes and just being so, I mean it really
is a science really which probably is not shocking to most people to hear but it was
really just eye opening the whole process.
But again, the attention to my body and detail throughout the whole process was incredible.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Then translates into results.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of IVF and egg freezing where everyone gets kind of like the same dose like the same
the whole way through.
And that's one, there's certainly ways, different ways of doing things.
And that's one way that you can like give a lot of people care all at once.
And so some centers like sort of go more towards that model.
But there's always going to be people that lose out for, you know, the dose was too high
or too low or whatever it was.
And so it just, you know, there's different ways of doing things.
But I think it makes a big difference to sort of like tailor the dose each time you come
in.
It sounds like it would, right?
This has been so informative.
I hope people really walk away from this conversation just feeling empowered to have this knowledge.
I think just to really wrap it up, can you share just a little behind what people can
expect for like the prep and then the recovery process?
So in terms of prep, it depends on if you're coming in looking to preserve fertility or
if you are infertile and you've been struggling with infertility.
And so the preliminary testing is sort of dictated by that.
So a lot of that's blood work, ultrasound, and with infertility, we often want to check
on things like your fallopian tube and the shape of the uterus if there's any fibroids
or anything like that.
And so that testing can be anywhere from like a day or two to like a couple of different
appointments depending on sort of what you need and what underlying issues might be there.
And then a lot of it's back and forth with the team.
I have to shout out to my amazing team.
They are incredible.
Incredible.
On top of it.
Every time I'm going to a scan, like this is Sally.
She just got back from a work trip in Virginia and she's really concerned about that, that,
that, that, and don't forget to tell her that you love her new puppy or whatever.
They're like, they're like so good.
Like before I see everyone, that's why it seems like I like know everything about everyone.
It's not me.
It's my team.
They're like, they're like really, really good.
You are only as strong as your team.
You are, you are.
They're always like, and she has to be triggered by this day.
And I'm like, okay, oh, they're like, they're like a really, really on top of it.
So a lot of it's back and forth with the team of like, just when does the schedule work?
Does this, this is what's involved, you know, like, logistic planning.
And so I would say that's most of the front end.
The lead into the cycle, what we call priming, which tries to get all the small follicles,
like sort of ready to go and sort of keep them like races at a starting gate, like keep them
all like sort of small and just ready to respond right when we start the injections.
There's multiple ways to do that.
So that can differ from person to person.
And then on the other side, the recovery is really probably varies from person to person,
mostly based on the number of eggs and how big your ovaries got.
The bigger your ovaries, the more of the bloating, cramping you feel and the slightly longer
the recovery will be.
Always everyone has like sort of gotten their period and hormonely recovered by 10 days
after the retrieval.
But the ovaries are still shrinking down.
And if your ovaries are coming from a really big size, that process can take a little bit
longer.
And so that really varies from person to person.
How was it for you, Kim?
Because I know you slept a lot.
I slept.
I was sleeping 10 to 12 hours a night for good five days.
I was so jealous.
I was like out.
How does that feel?
Yeah.
It was great.
But yeah, I felt like I did what you actually told me when I came out.
I felt like the procedure itself, which I feel like a lot of people ask me this, it felt
easy to me.
I was good in and out and certainly the facility is stunning and it just felt quick and easy.
So that part felt really great.
I do feel like my bloating increased after a little bit more to me.
It definitely gets worse.
Yeah.
Two or three days out.
Yeah.
I definitely got like certainly the week leading up, I definitely got really bloated.
And then after I got more bloated.
And then I had awful night sweats, which you know, that was not fun.
I was literally changing clothes between three and five times.
And I was really thankful for that king bed I just got because I just kept moving to
different spots.
I mean, my hair was soaked.
My pillow, this is really gross.
And I was really thankful that there was no one sharing my bed.
This is when I was real happy.
I was single.
I was like, this is disgusting.
That's too funny.
Yeah.
So, but then once I got my cycle, which you also let me know, then it's not.
Yes.
Yeah.
And so that was probably the most annoying.
But I also think that once I stopped injections, like the mentally for me, I felt so much better.
And just the further I got out, I was a little nervous.
Like, would that kind of depression, I was feeling stay?
And I certainly know a lot of people that it did stay for a couple of months after.
And I feel really lucky that it really stopped right after the retrieval.
And I kind of mentally felt better, but it was just bloated.
I think for like eight days until I got my cycle and those night sweats.
I know.
Because your estrogen was dropping.
Oh, dropping.
Your estrogen gets really high at the end of the cycle.
And even in those days following the cycle and that's like just about as high as it gets
from like during pregnant, like it's high.
Yeah.
And then it sort of rapidly falls and you really can feel like you can sense that.
And night sweats is really a common sign that the estrogen is going down.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was not pretty.
I was like, I mean, like just dripping down my arms.
It was gross, but really happy that's over now.
Yes.
That is over.
Yeah.
You did it.
I did it.
We did it.
And so happy.
And so happy.
Is there anything else that either one of you would add maybe for someone who is unsure,
skeptical, doesn't want to put themselves through that process, just any like final
words, I think for maybe someone listening because I'm sure there's some people out there.
Would you like to go first?
I would say I want to say something really cheesy.
I feel like it's kind of like a sprint and not a marathon.
Like it's two and a half weeks.
You can get through it.
It does.
There is like an insight.
It does.
It does end.
And you get through it.
And that's probably the same for most patients who are undergoing IVF.
But for them, it's swings more towards being a marathon because it can be long and drawn
out in multiple cycles and transfer.
And so for both people, like whether you're a marathon runner or a sprinter, you need
to be like it's a lot and one's not easier than the other.
But you really have to be strong and to be prepared and make sure you have a good support
team.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I wish I'd done it sooner.
I think that I put it off for such a long time and I coming out on the other side of
it.
And I'm so happy at 41 that I still decided to do it.
So I wouldn't say let don't let your age deter you by any stress.
Yeah.
Absolutely not.
It's a numbers game.
We can always stack the numbers in your favor.
Yeah.
And so I think that was such and again, I feel like I had so many women reach out that were
our 40 41 and felt like it was too late.
And so I was happy to be able to share that.
It's not too late.
So I would absolutely say, say do it.
It's worth it.
And again, that empowerment piece that I found after the retrieval and just it's peace of
mind.
And again to me, it's not in my hands.
Nothing is in our hands.
And so I feel like I did everything I could.
And the rest is as up there.
So we'll see.
But it's one of the best decisions I've ever made.
So thank you.
And thank you.
Of course.
Yeah.
Most of our fertility patients are like 40 41.
And many of them are very successful.
So there's no age limit.
It's just what are your goals and what do you have the time and the energy and the strength
to do and we work with it?
I hope that people feel like a ray of hope listening to this because I feel that way
for so many people even that I know in my life and especially for this one here for Kim.
And thank you, Dr. Hancock, for just.
Of course.
Thank you guys for having me.
For just treating her with the most incredible care.
We cannot rave about spring fertility enough to anyone who has listened to this in front
of the sun.
Thank you for the plug.
Yes.
I mean, we are not even trying.
It's just.
No, I love it.
We had some conversations before with other facilities in this by far.
Yeah.
And I think the best.
This is such a longer conversation.
But again, I feel like my fertility became so much more with you and just this cyst that
I've been having and so much pain.
And again, it just goes back to the time and the care that you've taken to look into that
for me and give me next steps and how to handle this situation.
And again, couldn't be more grateful.
And it's so shocking that the other places that I spoke to, the amount of listening and
truly, I feel like you care about me and my health overall beyond just my fertility.
And that is just, I could have never dreamt of a better doctor.
So thank you.
I wanted to add this part because I know, Kim, you said, going to see Dr. Hancock opened
up so much more for you other than just the knowledge of this whole process that it helped
uncover something that you've been told from many other doctors was not an issue.
Yeah.
I mean, I think as someone, again, Lyme disease, I've had a multitude of health issues over
really the majority of my life.
And I always thought I have stomach issues.
And I've been suffering with this pain that I thought was my stomach.
And it's this awful, sharp pain on my left side and it radiates into my back.
And actually just before I moved to New York, this fall I was in LA and ended up in the
emergency room with this excruciating pain on my lower left side.
I was throwing up from the pain and the emergency room doctor was so rude to me and basically
told me I was fine.
And actually on my discharge papers wrote that I needed a psychologist as my follow-up.
And what's so crazy to me is during my egg freezing process, this pain started again.
And I mean, I have it every month, but no one ever put this together for me.
And I shared with Dr. Hancock how I was feeling and you were actually with me when we did
the ultrasound and discovered this cyst on my left side.
And again, throughout this process, you kept telling me, you know, like monitor it, pay
attention to it.
And certainly I was taking Tylenol and Advil and heat and also why I stopped really working
out because the pain was so bad.
But we after the retrieval, Dr. Hancock told me to come back in about a month out, which
just a few days ago I went in to see her and we confirmed that this is, did you call
it an endometrioma?
Yes, you are right.
You are right.
And I think I've cried enough the last three days that I feel like not going to cry now,
but I feel like I cried so much with you that day in the office because it's just so wild
to me that I have seen so many doctors and so many stomach specialists actually that really
couldn't help me.
And you know, I get told all the same things, oh, you're stressed, oh, you're anxious, not
necessarily it's in my head, but that my, that I'm kind of causing this pain and I've
been tossed different supplements and magnesium and drinking colostrum and doing all these
things for my stomach and all this time.
It was this cyst on my ovary and it's endometriosis.
And you also said something to me that was so helpful, which was like track when you're
getting this pain.
And I was actually able to with my lovely little app to track my cycle, go back and see
where I was having the pain and it was around ovulation and around right before I was getting
my cycles when this pain flares up, which I think is so helpful for people to know when
that pain might occur.
And I went back three months and was able to see every single month the pain was when
I was ovulating and right before my cycle each month, which I walked in really certain
that this was probably it because of everything you shared with me.
But again, like I feel like I've said this so many times throughout this podcast, but
I am beyond grateful.
I can't even calculate the amount of money I've spent on doctors in my life and specialists
with things and for you to just listen to me and then do one simple ultrasound and figure
this out where for years I've been trying and I've had ovarian cis rupture and I had
an end up pregnancy at one point and no one ever thought to say it was endometriosis.
And so I think it's just so helpful to share that with other people of what some of the
signs are and also really listen to your body.
And if a doctor is telling you that this is a pain you have to deal with or that it's
your anxiety or you're causing it or they can't figure it out and you know in your
body that there's something more get a second opinion, go find a doctor, hang off and find
someone who you mesh who you mesh well with and who will listen and all you told me,
what you like, so endometriosis is tissue that gets outside your uterus and it can cause scarring
all over your pelvis and it can scar your fallopian tubes which leads to ectopic pregnancy.
It causes cyclic pain that fluctuates with your hormones as you ovulate and then get
your menstrual cycle and so the pain is usually very repetitive at specific times during the
month and it can get not, it sort of goes outside your uterus and so if it gets on the
wall of your pelvis or the back of your pelvis that can cause like deep radiating pain like
you're describing that goes to your back and almost in your back of your butt and your
leg on that side.
And it can also go on to other organs like it can go on to your outside of your intestines
or the outside of your platter and that can cause a terrible bowel symptoms, diarrhea,
constipation, gas, like intestinal pain also compounded by the fact that you're having
like really bad menstrual pain and so you just told me all of those things and we saw
this little cyst that was there during the cycle and I said, you know, let's, at first
I thought maybe it was like a cyst from where you had ovulated a month or two before but
it persisted and it looked the same and the same and so once we had some data points and
then we did that final ultrasound like a month afterwards and it was still there and it looks
like textbook like an endometrioma then you know that was all we needed to do but you
know it just goes to show you in modern medicine we have so many diagnostics and so many tests
and ultrasound and imaging and like a thousand tests to work up everything but you don't
always even need all that stuff you can really like do a lot of medicine just by like the
simple simple things.
Yeah.
Well, you were rare and so I wish more doctors were like you.
So I'm so happy we've had you.
You were a trooper.
Thank you.
And I'll say it again, I've said it a few times but I feel like you can never say this
enough.
I just hope this conversation brings hope and empowerment and has people walking away knowing
to trust themselves to listen to their gut, their intuition and when something doesn't
feel right to keep finding the right person until something is unveiled.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I hope you guys enjoyed that episode.
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