Shannon Sharpe on Mentoring Travis, Tight End Mt. Rushmore, Playing in Today's NFL & More | EP 35

Yeah, I don't really I don't really talk the camera so I'm having a conversation with you guys so the camera to follow me If it doesn't make dollars it doesn't make sense Welcome back to new heights ladies and gentlemen presented by wave sports and entertainment Brought to you by our friends over at fireball pound-for-pound undisputed best shot in the land that cinnamon delight is so tasty We are your hosts. I'm Travis Kelsey is my big brother Jason Kelsey And we're at the wave sports and entertainment Complex look at this second week in a row in new heights decked out That's right new heights comes to you every single Wednesday at least we try and get it to you every single Wednesday And then make sure you subscribe on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast and follow the show on all social media platforms at New heights show Jason why don't you tell us what we got coming up? We got a good one today, Travis We got a real good one and that's because we have an NFL legend from Glenville high school That's right. He's an eight-time pro bowler four five time all-pro and with short-changing three times Super Bowl champion and Overall just legend of a personality. We got club Shae Shae mr. Shannon Sharp in the building Let's go baby You pass me on all pros did huh? No, no, I'm right there. I'm right there. You're four We even even I don't even think I thought you got five. I only got four. Oh, yeah, we got five But you got my first team. Yes, I got four first teams on the second team. No, okay You got me I'll tell you what I'll trade your all-pro for what another thousand K season You know, I know you don't although you might you gonna triple me up on those. Oh, you're seven right? I'm at seven right now. You got you go triple me up eight's got I got I don't you know already know eight that Ocho I need to get that Ocho. Oh, man. You get that eighth in a row. Yeah, you hear me patty my homes I don't think you got a worry about that you already know me all right well As always we got to get to the first thing on the docket, which is new Here's with the new news. Okay, what is it just new news? That's it. Yeah, there's not much to this. We try and like harmonize with it. So he'll hit it then I'll hit it and then new news But it's really no new news All right first item we got to talk about obviously huge episode with you coming on here. Thank you Shannon say to First of all club Shae Shae. Yes, you got the sweatshirt on right here. Yes looks unbelievable So you're on new heights. I am should we have called this club Kelsey Kelsey? No, I think new heights fish you guys You get a logo. I don't know what your logo would be I don't know if you have a landscape or whatever your logo should be like my logo is kind of like me You probably should get a logo. I think so it needs it needs something that okay when people see that Oh, they know Jason and Travis. Here we go. Yeah, I think that just makes sense Can I call you young you can how did how did you get on now? I don't know First person to call you Started this it started in 2016 and the Broncos were playing the Cowboys and Obviously the Broncos won the game and I like I'm like I want to celebrate. Yeah, I was like man What can I celebrate so I stopped by the convenience store because at that time I was getting up at 315 because I had to be To work at four Production with that four so I'm up at 315 get the dog settle take a shot I'll get myself out get there in time to get the production and I was like man Convenience stories open. I was like man. What can I celebrate with so I grabbed some black and miles and I had a bottle of Hennessy and I was like, okay So I came out I got him a black and mild I had a stocking cap on the meme is less. Yeah, and then from that point on the man I'd he on at the cookout. Yeah, and it took off. It is nobody nobody calls me Shannon now Yeah, everybody calls me on or shake well the first thing I wanted to call you was on But I didn't know if that's the proper thing to say first into you. I was like I'm gonna go Shana first Now I'm not saying Shana always from up from the jump we're supposed to ask this later But I got asking now cuz we're talking about your name Are you the toughest man named Shannon to ever exist ever is there anybody else? No, I don't I think I own that Feel pretty close to the city. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know but hold on I don't really know many other people name Shannon. No Shannon Briggs with a boxer. He's tough. Yeah. Yeah, I Way. Yeah, he might he might get that one. Yeah, yeah, if you're if you're going out there one-on-one Nah, not on the man's not not a throw no hand I Heard that's a new wave everybody post career. You just jump in the box. That is we're good. I'm good I don't need proof. I tell if I am unless I absolutely have to prove how tough I am. Yeah, it's one of the you don't want to do it But if you have to you're gonna have to be sure All right find out. Yeah, we're doing a live show in Kansas City. I don't know if you know this Okay, have you done any live shows and do you think this is a good idea? Yeah, I like I mean the thing is is that how you guys gonna handle the noise handle the background noise the ooze and the odds Because like when we do a debate show I love live TV because the response is instantaneous Yeah, I don't have to go back and listen and wonder what they're saying and look at the comments. Oh Yeah, you know right away So I know so that's what you're used to that's what you're used to you score is instantaneous. Yes, you turn the ball over you get booze It's instantaneous. Yes, so us as performers We're used to having it right then and there and not having to wait to get back to see the comments It's like okay. I like that. Yeah. Yeah, so it feels like you're the crowd you feed off of that. Yes. Yeah You get a feel for how you're doing. Yes. Yes. All right, and you guys gonna do well I was about to say you you're known as the locker room guy. You're always you're always a I kept them. Yes Yes, I kept them loose Did you ever have to really dial it back in terms because when you're going live You can't just say what you got it has to be a thought process, right? Like you can't lose right? The thing is that I play to the crowd So I get a sense early on what the crowd likes and so now I'm building my even though I have my arguments already said I'm building my argument already cuz I'm a performer So I know what to say. I know it's gonna get the ooh I know it's gonna get the odds and so now you build that to like get the crowd on your side because now it's Competition is it's me again skip. So now I'm trying to win the crowd over to get the crowd on my side So yeah, absolutely you play to the crowd. We're gonna be in Kansas City You probably should have went to a neutral site For everyone listening watching you can still win some free tickets keep sending us the reason why you're the number one new heights fan And we're gonna start picking winners this next week. Yeah, let's let's keep this thing rolling Let's get into the 12 bold topics or 12-ish bold topics Get into it with my guy uncle real quick. Let's talk a little bit about the mentorship aspect of things I'm I've always told everybody how much how appreciative I am that that you reach out on the good games and the bad games You you don't let the no, you know, I mean you don't let it slide at all and um, I I've just been so Blessed to be able to have somebody like you in my back pocket or in my ear Just letting me know from a Hall of Famers point of view on what I need to be doing and I want to know Was anybody doing this for you? Yeah, when I first got there Steve at water who was only a year older than me. He got there in 89. I got there in 90 Guys like Dennis Smith took me under their wings And I kind of watched them and see saw how they did things the way the professionalism in which they displayed and I was like Man, that's that I kind of I kind of want to be that role I kind of want to be when guys come in they like man I kind of want to be like sharp man I like the week and duck themselves because football was the most important thing for me You know back when I first got into the league cell phones didn't exist at the time cell phones came like a couple years later, but back then If somebody wanted to get in touch with you They would actually call the secretary at the Broncos the Broncos would take take a message Candice or Shanique was and they they call call them back at this number and stick it in your box And you had a box with your name on it and so they were sticking in the box and your thing and so as as it Progress then you had a voicemail that was set up for me and once the cell phone came it Drove well first of all it drove me crazy that every time that every break We got you see guys run to the phone. Yeah, and it would start calling people. Yeah, and so I would just go I'd just go hang the phone up Person that you're calling what do you think they're doing? What do they think you think you're doing you're working at work? Yeah, they're at work and if they're not why are you talking to them? So I would just hang the phone up and then they got the cell phones and I say see you're gonna be mad when they say um Such a such one to see you. You're gonna be mad. You go say they F'd over you But they didn't F over you because that's what my college coach used to say my college coach used to say now see you guys Messing around he would curse he said because I know it's gonna happen When I take your scholarship you gonna go home and tell your mom and you tell your dad that I helped over you Now when your mom and dad come down here all huffing and puffy, I'm gonna pull out the film. You see your son. He fucking over me And so that was the approach that I took but some guys a rod smith Was like a sponge. I say rod said I said man I just because he's lock with across my I said what you want. He said I want to be like you He said I want the people to love me. I want the culture to respect me I said well, this is what you do you do this this and this now He was one of the ones that listen a guy like he burns listen a guy like the Wayne Carlswell Chamberlain a lot of the guys listen But a lot of guys that come in they think they know more than you right okay. Hey the information is free Yeah, I give it to you you do what you want to do with it in Travis case I reach out to Travis a broad. This is what I see I see some things that you're a little this you're a little that I think if you do it this way I think you have some success just try it. I'm not saying hey, I'm not I'm just telling you some some things that I saw that I think could help you when did this start was this probably like Three by three four years ago. So okay got your about three or four years come out I'm hesitant to give information when someone doesn't reach out sure, but he's one of the few yeah that will take the information and Don't feel like I'm a know it all where I'm trying to tell him well Who is he to tell me what I do you know? I'm this I'm that yeah like I appreciate that Yeah, and so good game I said I know you had ten for a buck fifty and a couple touchdowns Yeah, but I believe you could have had twelve for what seventy five and three touchdowns or if he has a bat He has four catches. I said what's happening is that you're starting to press. You know you gonna get your catches Yeah, don't press it'll come to you just relax. There was there was a game We're playing the Rams on Sunday night. It was actually supposed to be in Mexico City But they switched it to LA yeah, and that game it was it was like the first game where both teams scored 50 Yeah in a NFL game and we ended up getting on the bunsight of that record Score most points in a NFL game just to lose yeah But I was a part of losing that thing because I there were a few catches late in the game where I wasn't locked in I wasn't focused and he was mentioning how in big moments This has to be more dialed in than your athleticism or like the fundamentals and everything like you can't be thinking Too much about the little things. It's all really got to be just you'll be in the moment. Yeah, it's got to be thinking about all these Yeah, I think the thing is because sometimes like I said as you start to press you start to like I got to do this Man, I ain't got but one catch right now. Let me go ahead and get ten catches on this one catch and you can't do that I've never seen a guy score without the ball in his hand right you got to have the ball So you trying to get ahead of yourself. Yes. Yes, but he was very very receptive Yeah, a lot of guys, you know that yeah, yeah, yeah, they blow you up. Okay, fine You ain't got to worry about me by I'm sorry because my thing is I've already done what I've done I'm good with what man. Yeah, he's better than me. Yeah, Gronk's better than me I'm good with that. I got the most out of my God given ability. I'm not judging myself by what these guys do They should yeah, hopefully they they watch some of my game tapes like man. Yeah, I think I can do that Yeah, but but man this dude here I would have loved to have Played in his era to to really compete against it. We're gonna get to that one For sure, but I want to touch on this still because same thing happened to me John Ryan used to play with Yeah, and we did a radio show one spot a local show in Philadelphia And he told me something that Jeff's out and had been telling me But you get away with stuff when you're younger right out there strong a little bit up and He's like, you know, they teach you guys I have inside hands when you're blocking like what do you all you guys keep grabbing out here? And I thought you know some of those guys just do those I all and I'm not just talking about those other guys like You know your hands are outside Yeah, and at first I kind of had what you were just saying like I'm like man What's this do coming to me for like out of nowhere? But next time I'm watching film. I'm like, you know what John's right Like I do have my hands outside and that's why I'm getting pushed back on this play right? Right. That's why I'm not able to solidify the point of attack on the zone, right? And it always means more even just I want to be saying it to me, right weeks You know what I mean? Right, but hearing a player that you respect and you know had had a high level success tell you that It just means a little bit more technique will keep you in the league a lot lonely athletic ability Because as you start to age your athleticism will start to Wayne and the guy is the guy that's fun more fundamentally sound The reason why Tom Brady could play 23 years because he didn't rely on athleticism Right the reason why Peyton Manning could play at a high level for such a long time He didn't rely on athleticism you notice guys that rely on athleticism never have very very very long careers, right? Yeah, because once that athleticism Wayne not what and see and that's what he's he for a guy his size Yeah, he is fundamentally sound he has he has what we call wiggle. He can drop it Oh my god, see he can drop his hips. He's not robotic I had to get a loose of my whole life Seriously the first time you ever put so we play in high school football, okay, Travis a quarterback. He's Playing JV you be baby playing JV, but he's doing scout team offense. Okay. I'm varsity. I'm the older brother leader of the defense I'm a light does do that He gets out scrambles coming out the pocket. I want to take his head off and I saw them hips Those hips went one way then they went the other way Shook me. I got him back. I got him back the next play. I was like, okay now I'm definitely yeah, but he made me look real silly there and that was one of those moments as the older brother I was like, okay, he can be he's gonna have he got it. Yeah, he's the one you run No knees and all that stuff that's so you you know when somebody's got it just by watching it. Yeah, yeah I got to witness that for saying the worst thing I could have did though is get you fired up about Let's be serious for a second. Is there anything that Travis still needs to work on though look The thing that I told him I said you need to be more of an asset in the passing game than you are liability in the run game Okay, that's not he's not he's not This third offensive tackle that they bought bring in for the point of attack, right? Can you get in the guys way? Yeah, I said you got to drive to got five yards off the ball I was an undersized tight and I was two and twenty eight pounds. I played basically my career two and twenty eight Two twenty eight Am I tight in my last my legs dudes on the field my last year my last weigh-in I weigh two twenty three Oh my gosh They move me to tight end when I got to I got to Denver. I was about two twenty four or five on the bench Yeah, twenty time when I got to Denver. I would you twenty one of the wide receiver when they move me to tight end I weigh two or five Why did you wait less because I was I started running I couldn't you know I was running I mean you just run run run I couldn't live like that. Yeah, I didn't understand how to lift in season Got you and so and I my eating habits was terrible I was eating every meal was fast food and but there's like how do you and I never I never had single digit body fat until I got to like 52 I mean a double digit body fat like good dream all that fast food and then you might have died if you ain't healthy You probably been like 180 out there But I should be more and so when they move me coach Reeves I was always moved tight end. Yeah, and so they just moved me so they can get me matched up because I could block on the move It's just at the point of attack. I was just too small sure 205 to try to root out a Sam backer Yeah, you know I don't know if it was like but when I first got in the league everybody played a 25 front Yeah, I mean they had to lie back on the ball under yeah And then they went to a yet they went to an over front when it put the D in yeah, I don't know about it from coast Bruce me up there straight-handed Reggie white like I don't know coach you might want to just like put me at a flexion Remember the this Tampa Bay Super Bowl literally they put in Dominica shoe out at a wide nine Right. Okay. Yeah, and we ran inside zone at him and I'm at the point I came off the field. I looked at the run game corner. I was like, I don't know if we want to run that one Yeah, I first down dog. I just tell T.D. All the time of like you put me I was I was almost oh yeah in the back field with the handoff and we're in the we're in the gun we're in the gun for We used to run plays in the day and again he getting the seven I wasn't holding them really good against seven five nine nine They did me a favor cuz I know we wouldn't run it wide anyway Yeah, so I used to tell CTD like a sharpie what they looking like outside don't come this way Nothing good happened over here Or the cars will side that's awesome. So you said you saw Travis and you noticed something special. Yeah Yeah, yeah What what does a tight end need to do that you were like that guy's got it or he has he has imagination? Okay, because it's not just ten yards and out. Yeah, ten yards and in this is what the playbook says do this no no no no no He has imagination. He's running a route Thinking about I'm gonna run something very similar to this in the third quarter and the first fourth quarter So everything is being set up to fool you. Yeah, and you I'm watching him run I'm watching him run an out route and I say you know what the option is coming that will route is coming off that same thing That's seven. So everything looks the same. It's at the same. I mean he'll change speeds He doesn't change speeds as much as I as much as I did because I'm like herky jerk I was like oh start stops beat up and go again But he's so fluid and he's not mechanical for a guy his size you think he'd be mechanical robot is He's he's smooth like a guy 230 pounds, but he's 255 260. Yeah, all righty. We're gonna get back to the conversation with uk And just a second but right now we need to shout out one of our partners fireball fireball takes any event to the next level Especially celebrating a big game. 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Alright All right, we ask all of the former players that we've had on the show. What's your mind rush more tight? I'm not much more who are the best tight ends in your mind in the NFL history. I would take Trav rock K senior I Don't think this guy gets enough love, but I'm gonna give him his flowers. He came in a little after me Antonio Gates, okay Gates kind of remind me baby Gates kind of remind me of myself because he did a lot of change in speed. Yeah, I mean it was like Slow and slower, but it was changing the speed Why do you think he hasn't gotten the same amount of credit as other guys cuz you look at the stats that speak Tony? You know what I mean? I could I can't I was like bra how you scored like I could you score like this? It was just tossing it up to yeah, but I couldn't man. Look he was just I had like big games like I'd have like 180 200 170 yard games, but tone would be like 85 yards of three touchdowns I Couldn't score the ball and plus he had Lydanian It was like they didn't have a running game Lydanian was like jumping in the ends on like one year He had like 31 touchdowns and tone was still could score like that So I'm gonna give Tony's love so other four people you don't put yourself up. No, I'm good. I'm good Well, I did what I did. I maxed him. I maxed out my ability the way I ate You don't think you're a top four tight end all time. It doesn't matter to me Honestly, I don't lose no sleep. I put it like this here. Okay. There's no disrespect on anybody I ain't trading my career with anybody. Yeah, I Wouldn't trade my career with any tight end sure I Started I brought my own food and people asked me like why do you bring your own food? I say because in the cafeteria they're cooking for a hundred guys my food is made for one. Okay So that was my thought process the way I trained the way I ate the way I slept was all about being the best I could be I know there's no question in my mind in my 14 years I got everything out of my God giving ability so that's all I can ask am I better than somebody else? I don't know. Yeah, I'll let guys that that do that for a living Grade me however they want to but I know I maximize my ability and that's all you can ask for anybody Did he get the maximum effort out of his God giving ability? Yeah? Well, I think it's very admirable for you not to put yourself up there now some of us not so I mean I think two guys have to be up there. Yeah, that's tribe and grump has to they have they have to they have to be because The thing that I love most about him you look at the regular season numbers Yeah, and he's better in the postseason than he is the regular season Yeah, what he what we call him is a big game. Yeah The bigger the moment the bigger he plays grump was like that the bigger the moment the bigger he played very few guys And I think who the hell you think Patrick's gonna throw the ball to right? You're gonna throw to him right they know that I tried warning our defense 80,000 people know that Patrick Mahomes know that he knows that throwing the ball and the defense knows he's gonna get the ball Yeah, and somehow he still comes with finds a way to come down with the football Grump was the same way. I would have loved to see grump had he able to been stay healthy, right? His numbers when he went in he had he might have had a chance to get a base to my gosh Yeah, but the injuries I mean because he's so big the only way you could tackle him with the chopping Mm-hmm. And so now the lead leg of man the ankle problems Yes, you know He had so many so many injuries that that probably shortened his career And that's what I think when it's all said and done I don't when it's all said and done I don't know how you make an argument that says trap isn't the greatest idea. Mm-hmm How do you you you formulated an argument that says he's not the greatest well you did say Earlier this year that if he gets a second ring He is the greatest yeah Because you look at his numbers the thousand yard seasons you look at the postseason his postseason resume And you combine those two I don't know how you say it because I don't look at a guy says what he has the most Super ring So therefore he's the best right none. No, no, no team game It's my team game. So what about okay the regular season? How many catches how many yards? How many touchdowns the regular season now? come post season We times that times to yeah, you never come out of a playoff game where you watch Kansas City and you say man Man the trap didn't have it today He gave you that work every single game. Yeah, I can tell you one. I got knocked the fuck out against Tennessee and I did I was concussed on yeah, it happened it happened When you go into a place just say okay regular season and you know there's finality to a postseason game the thing about regular season I got next Sunday or I got Thursday. Well, I got a Monday night regular in the postseason. There's finality every postseason football game is a game seven in basketball a game seven in baseball a game seven in they say there's nothing like a game Seven so you're playing a game seven every time you step on the field in the playoffs. What's going through Travis Kelsey? Whoo-hoo. I'm making that entire week my life I'm focusing everything on that exact moment man, and it's uh, honestly Obviously there's a lot that goes into just anybody's single success in the league, but coach Reed had those playoff game plans are Special man. They are special everything that we've done throughout the season He knows that we're going into the playoffs with just bangers all the double moves Right all the all the concepts that we run off of each other are going in it's a luxury man It's a luxury to be in that offense It's a luxury to play with a guy like Pat Mahomes because you always know you have a chance right and when you're when you're in these moments You just get excited to make plays for the guys next to you Right you're to mean the stadiums got a little more energy to it the atmosphere just seems more dramatic and more action-packed And it's just you know, I just love the feeling of playing playoff football Right, and I've been fortunate that I played a lot of them at the house I don't think I've played too many I think I actually only played two games Outside of arrowhead in the playoffs. Wow outside of Super Bowls Yeah, I think to ugh's credit you do show up in the biggest moments even not just football Saturday Night Live like I watch all week doing preparation for that the moment the camera went on It's the best he ever did right now There's just something about and we go back to that playoff game against Buffalo everybody's going crazy Stadium's going crazy. There's only how many seconds us were there in that AFC Oh, then when you're getting 30 seconds. Yeah, yeah, see seconds But the thing was you you're well enough to the a a that's what I'm saying. Hey, you know They do that you have a presence of mind and like still communicate still Be open to doing whatever in the moment. Yeah, I think that a lot of that It all goes back to preparation man It always it all goes back to what you're doing before the the game the event Whatever it may be to make sure that you feel the most comfortable in that moment. Yeah, right and Then you just had you just you're you're like Everything's based off of the instincts that you've created for yourself. Yeah, you're in a mean and it's Are you in Pat talking about this? I don't have fun, man Well, you can't talk about it being in the zone, right where you'll do something like I don't even know how that just happened Just blacked out. Yeah, when you're in meetings. Do you impact do you? Patrick do you guys sit next to each other? Nah, we don't but there's always communication if there's something that needs to be said I'll happily stand up or speak up without a doubt, right? See John and I was that we sat next to each other in in up as a meeting and The route says okay 12 to 14. I said Tim what you're thinking on this he says and it practice go 12 14 I know you're gonna go 8 to 10 in the game. I know you're gonna be sped up, but just for time's sake. Oh, yeah Okay, what are you thinking on this? Okay, if he plays if he plays like this keep it high that communication is everything Yeah, yeah, it's everything. Yeah, and then you start to build Understanding without even having the eyes, right? Yeah So now you already know like all right versus this coverage and I got a version of an out route If there's somebody out there like if there's a post trying to take the cap off the defense, but You know me he passed the post off and that guy's out there I'm not about to just keep running out there. I'm just gonna sit right here and be wide open Exactly, so it's just you start to learn the traits of just really what ends up being the entire offense Right, you know what I mean? And you kind of create that as it goes, but coach Reed has been the he always says He said I got 51% yeah at the end of the day. It's still my offense Right, I need you to run this corner. You've got to be running this difficult So how much leeway does he give you in the offense? I am like notorious for Fucking it up in practice. Yeah, so I'll test the waters He'll either give me that eyebrow like You already know over the past ten years though You build the instincts and the relationship to really you know try and make it the best thing for everybody because all I'm trying to do Is be convenient for a pat right in certain situations pull guys Towards me so I can open up somebody else right like it's just it's it's it's painting the picture for the guy back there and make Everything that much easier for him and in terms of leeway man I just been so fortunate that coach Reed's been able to help kind of grow this position in this offense right because it wasn't like this in The beginning you know I was I was more of a inline tight end We're too tight end personnel both of them are with their hand in their ground and it was just it was just a different offense We had Jamal Charles and we were handing the thing off that You know I mean everything was kind of based off of the play action And then as Alex Smith and this offense grew to kind of like the the spread offense or the air raid the read zone read option The RPOs and everything once Pat got here everything's just kind of been growing and he's helped me Kind of grow with it and make this tight end position Completely different or just different than what it is across the league Yeah, shout out the big red baby. All right. We got to talk about Uncle a bit. We've been talking about you all this entire episode Yeah, I don't know what this is about That's what this next section is alright now tight end records Yeah, huge moment for me last year was was getting a 10,000 and then and then gracing Your your when you left the league what was the receiving record? Yeah for tight ends in the in the national football league when you were tired of no four Obviously you held all the records for was a reception GR's and touchdowns by the tight end Did you see the game change from when you first got into the league or when you first moved the tight end to where and you were retired? Yes, because when I first got into the league everybody wanted a third offensive tackle I mean you had to be able to dominate the line of scrimmage It was always okay You could win the Super Bowl if you bring your run game and your defense because that's what traveled sure running the football and defense Travel and so everybody wanted to you know sanding when I got to sand it to sanding the charges Smallest tight end was probably 64 275 whoa they had Joe Caravillo. They had Arthur Cox I mean they had 300 pounds tight end they had Walker and so they just wanted to run the football They had Marion Bus they had Ron Bernstein and they just powered a football everybody ran the football Yeah, and if you call 40 balls and for tight end call 40 balls. Who are you going to the Pro Bowl? That's going to the Pro Bowl and then all of a sudden I came on the scene and I'm like I Remember looking at the tight ends because I think my first year or second year Ethan Horton went to the Pro Bowl called like 30 40 balls And I remember just looking at an open shot on either I'm like I'm better than him. Yeah, and I wouldn't play enough much. I said I'm better than him Yeah, and it's funny how it all started for me because I was the big I was a tight end so I was the big receiver So I would always played J Nova check I was always a tight end why I received I was Tim Brown I was whoever's gonna get the ball I put the jury so who goes back ball and so one day coach put me at that tight end says okay You're gonna be tight end and practice so you know they hold the cars up and it says okay run this route I was like how you want me to run it. They just go get open. I said okay And so I just started boom boom catch the ball and then I would throw the ball in the woods I put in the woods and I remember Wade Phillips who was our Decorning at the time and he blew the wheel so he said Dan put his ass in the game and see if they can cover him because we can That's kind of high got started and they put me out the way No, no routes. I mean people don't and I told their story. They put me in motion So John could tell me the route So away run the corner Say was it the was it the number tree. Yeah, what's the numbers? No, no, so he would actually literally telling me to write because I was I was the I was the Z and then I played the slot Okay, and so now they put me a tight end the funny thing about the system that we were in Coach Landry used to be a defensive coordinator. So everything was backwards So on the on the offensive side one three five was to the right two four six eight was to the low my gosh Missy, you know, they said he's saying okay say three. I go to the left shark. Do you not understand? No So that was really the hardest part but once I got that down It clicked. Yeah, and then John was like he believed in me. So I'm come to you I mean he tell me in practice. He said you got it You could be special. Yeah, and I remember go I got home and I remember calling my brother I said man John told I could be special. He said you can be and so every day at practice I got to do something I went to work every day said I got to do one thing to make them keep me One thing I give me one plate run one route live one rate tell him what this coverage is I got to do one thing to say we got to keep him another day in depression and from that point on It was over on the thing That came close to not happening because the thing was I was on the board to get cut I Was on the board to get cut. I was on one of the last 12 14 guys to get cut years. This is 1990 I was self-droned draft pick. I'm on the rookie year. That's my rookie year. Thank you. We're playing I never forget this we're playing the Arizona Cardinals and one of the coaches come came to me said Shanna He said your name is on the board to get cut. Yeah, he says now you might you might not But your name is on the board. He said what you should do is go out there and bless you gut bless your ass He says because if we cut you this tape is gonna go to all 31 up. It was like 20 I think 27 28 other teams and somebody might like what you see they might like what they see and So as I'm driving to the stadium it starts to rain Means we're not gonna throw it right. I'm not gonna be able to show what I can do in the past game Yeah, so now I'm on all the special teams. I'm a gunner. I'm on punt. I'm on punt return I'm gonna kick. I'm gonna kick return. Yeah, and so I was like man. How am I gonna show now mind you? I don't get into the game on offense until the fourth quarter right guys. I cut everything to move. Yeah I cut the referee Fly I cut everything to move if you move you will cut on the kick team cuz back then on kick off it cut on special teams. No, no, no, no I was on offense. I was on offense But on the kickoff you could line up as far as you wanted to right and take off running Oh, yeah, I lined up 15 yards deep. Oh my gosh, and when I hit the line I was in a full speed. Yeah, so when the guy that was blocking me when he turned around I was in the chair Yeah, you already know I showed him out of here. Hold on. That might be the hardest for you Yeah, are you out here making tackles? What? Oh, yeah, my first year I was second on the team and special teams tackle So we came in that we came in that Friday. My name was off the board There you go. Just like that. That's how I close it to this story Not being told where it was told in Denver. Yeah, but then you still had that mindset where you went Every day every day. I'm gonna give my name off that boy. I gotta get I gotta give him reasons to keep me. Yeah, that's awesome Obviously you had all the records when you left. Yeah, is there ever any of those records that you just didn't think was ever gonna get touched You still hold a bunch. No, I only I mean Like the long most yards in the game. Yeah, that was 215 214 214 it's funny. I remember Greg Robinson. He was our defensive coordinator during the Super Bowl Mm-hmm, and I used to tell him all the time. I said if you ever went if I ever played against this defense I'll break the record against this defense. I think cuz it's some sound No, no, no, no, no that that wouldn't happen. No Shannon that wouldn't happen rest it so he passed away a couple years ago Lo and behold, he's the DC at Kansas City. Mm-hmm now that we can practice I'm like I'm like I'm thinking that cuz I kind of get a sense of how you can get a sense of the week like okay It's gonna be a big week. I think I used to call him a bro. I think this might be it This might be easy a dime in a bill, you know, 10 can't you the honey? I think I think it's one of those type of game It's like yeah, so I remember going to Kansas City I'm like he's like what is looking like this week? I said, I don't know about five or six now funny cuz in the first half I only had 31 yards about to say that 31 and then week Two ninety nine or two ninety-art touchdowns. I had 80 I have an 84 yards So we come out the first to open the series coups at office according to Gary Kubiak says we're gonna run the counter because I think They're prime for it. We run counter pass. I go past the line but get covered too I rip the same and then the safety. Yeah, I like bro Me even is on and then we stopped them because they were like they were blorida side at that point And then we get it again and I catch a catch another whole a whole pass and so I'm like man I don't know I said I I'm doing okay After the game I still had no idea and then a Jim Sockamana who's a Media guy he said you broke the record. I was like what record? He said you had just caught the most passes at most of most yards in a game I was like really I'm like how many did I have and he said 214 I'm like read I was like There are some games That I know like we played Carolina one year and I had 174 and only seven catches and it was snowing like crazy And I'm like man If it wasn't snowing that day because they covered me man to man with the safety or the Mike backer And I'm like and that's what that's all they show. Yeah, you know what? It's it's great when you see your meal. Yeah, and that's like are they really going to do this because rest your soul Sam Mills was the middle backer at the time. I said no they not finna come I Remember he's training about like oh my goodness. Yeah, all in trouble. Yeah, we played Buffalo one We played Buffalo open in year 95 now I missed all offseason because I had ankle surgery had ankle surgery if I'm not mistaken on both ankles and so I was Gassed Had I been in shape like I came in every year after that I probably would have had 250 Wow, cuz I dropped like three passes because I was just gassed I was just gassed, but you know, you have those moments where you like and that's why I always tell you You don't think about it at the time, but you look back and you like man. I had three drops That was a 13 catch for a buck 80 and two tubs easy. Yeah, I had I had six or seven this past year in terms of drops throughout the entire season right and when you really look at it two of them were end zones and Another like like two or three of them were down field catches Yeah, and it's just you look at them you see how many yards you had you see them You touch down as you had now it was like almost an extra hundred yards and two touchdowns. Yes, and It just beats you up. Yeah, it beats you up and I promise you man. You never get over that shit You don't you don't I got to ask you this going into a game You see you you kind of felt what it's gonna be a big game because I hear that from our guys all the time our receivers Quarterback go up. Yeah, you know, what do you see this week? Oh, it's gonna be a good week. That's right What are you seeing is it is it personnel who's there trying to guard you with or is it structural or is it both sometimes? Well for me, I'm looking at it like who they guard me with safety. I say no, bro You you not big enough lying back are you too slow? So what do they do? And so now For me when I broke down film I never really looked at the linebackers or the safety guard me I always always looked at the number one corn owners gotcha. How does he play? Albert Lewis really was the guy that got me to the Hall of Fame that made me he was Corner with the Chiefs and he was long. He was about six two and a half six three long limb And he never gave me a steady diet of anything Sometimes he was feather where he was just like dancing front of me I couldn't get my hands on him. Sometimes he would quick jam it like he'd be backing up at him Yeah, and then sometimes he would press me. Yeah, and so he never gave me a steady diet of anything sure and so every so I just like okay This is if I can beat him Nobody else can see me right but he knew that if I ever got my hands on him it was but he did a great job Yeah, he did a great job of feathering and dancing He came in and started out of a lot of different things And so that was that was my focus beating him beating him and then finally he was a free agent And I know a can say the time that y'all didn't spend no money. I said well finally he leave in Kansas City He goes to the Raiders. I was about to say At that point time I'm killing the Raiders. Yeah, I mean I'm your 13 for a buck 56 I'm doing you know six for a buck 20. Yeah, I'm trying to tell you story We had a I had a hundred thousand dollars on my contract one year. I needed a hundred and 20 I need a hundred and 21 yards To get that you're a thousand because a thousand dollars going into the last game going to the last game hey money day That's a play on money game right there I had six catches a hundred sixteen yards and two touchdowns And then catch another pass Five yards short of a thousand eight days Hey man, and never get suspicious that ain't yeah cuz guess what hey The next week how many how many plays did you get in the second half? Oh, I played all but I'm saying how many did I didn't get another pass throw my way. I didn't get another plate You don't think somebody made a call of course it is yeah Share the five yards away. She has five stop throwing the ball stop throwing the ball. I go out there the next week I go by go thirteen for a buck fifty three of the touchdown Dude I'd be hot. I'd be so mad Who had a who had one like that too was George kiddo. Yeah, same really don't hit note No, because he got close to almost be oh, yeah, he had like 210 in the first half. Yes I remember single didn't catch a single ball. Yeah, they can't let him do that against the bronco Yeah, but it was tough man. I just know I'm like Somebody get this money somebody got a hundred thousand dollars I'm like I was killed. I mean the first half. I was killing trial I was eat I was eating I was like oh man and they had Eddie Anderson covering me He was like he was a hitter. I mean he was a color. He called a Fan that's a fancy way for saying he's slow Whoever the hardest hitter is right now. Yeah, he was called a receiver Crawl coming across the middle. Yeah, and they counted him out like he was in truth, no, he didn't That's a bad man right though. Yeah, but see back then they would I was he guarding the outrail though. No, no No What they're putting that slot and I ran that seven He took a humble angle. I got the ball. I'm like you want this Yeah, but uh those those were the times like I would I mean for me The now the the defense receiver and you can't hit the guy like what is a defensive receiver if you got a helmet and shoulder pads on how you defend Listen, so yeah, all right all on the same page with you on that one. Well, no, I mean if you're If you reach for a ball, but I mean you're defenses, right? No What do you think it has gone on it's gone over for now? Yeah, because now like defenders are defenses on like a crabby But what you what happened to have you head on a swivel and I say you got to defend yourself Like you just like yeah, and I see that a lot of times guys there you try and block me guys don't want to get any Don't want to get that funny on you. Yeah, they don't want to get that fine And so I see guys you got an opportunity to make a play and they let the guy catch it And then they fly by him. He goes for touchdown, right? I'm like bro. Come on. Yeah, it's not good for the game Yes, but I get it because the NFL don't want another billion dollar two billion dollar concussion lawsuit Yeah, things are back down coming down the pipeline, but I think they've tilted the field too far to the office too much Too much too. Thank you. I hear you. So what what would you do in today's NFL? You think as far as numbers? Yeah Oh, I'm definitely getting his nose You're my quote my qua I need John though. I need my quarterback. Oh, yeah Yeah, you put you put him in this offense. I can see I could see Do you think the players on defensive change a little because we talked like Who was that linebacker that you said the uh really big uh, good hitter, but oh you know you know he was a safety Adiators. Yeah, you don't really see many of those guys. No, no, no, no, no But see back then if I'm if you're a linebacker what limec is a oh he got drafted in the first row because you can cover Most guys are thumpers most get linebackers want to come down here. Right. So now you're asking them to cover in space Right, that's not what they do. Right. I'm trying to get to the quarterback Or a von miller. Yes for tj watt or their thumpers. Yes, real quan smith guys come Fred now Fred Warner is better. He can he's good in space, but Fred Warner is not covering kelson. He's not covering a kid or a wall or one on one. Right. Yeah, he's dropping back He's playing that Tampa two three is I can speak up to yeah getting back in the hole He got good speed. Yeah, he can drop. So for me when alive back, I was like, bro You got no chance really unless you got help over the top and you know when they got help over the top You ain't getting nothing today, but I should come out down to feel a sound I'm gonna give it to you the first half and just so you don't feel lucky left out. I'm gonna give it to you the second So everybody's gonna get in the day. I'm still in that one. Would you would you rather play a really Slow player or a smaller player? You met you said before safety's too small. Yeah, I'm back. It's too slow. Which one you would you rather? Oh It depends on what ride you're running. Yeah, well, cuz I'm just I just wanted a smaller guy I'm trying to get my hands on him. Gotcha Because see the thing with a smaller guy I want him to think he can get physical. He can get my chest Yeah, because the thing is I'm never gonna let you I'm never gonna let you square me up See what's once like once you square me up. I'm dead Once I give you this I give you the eight in the form there. Right. I might would just stop the rap So how do you not give them the eight in the four? I'm always I'm playing them angle. I'm playing on the side. Yeah Half of the man. Yeah, I'm half a man. Okay. I'm half a man. I'm I'm even old one side of your number or I'm on the other side of your number but I'm not There was probably a three game span that you actually hit me up about about somebody getting in my chest Just how I was getting off the ball. Yeah. Yeah, and it's literally Every time you play one of them new England teams where they're butching you huh? Chill out man. I'm sliding on the You was talking about just just the safety It was the way you can't let them square you up. I know but it's literally it's it's as small as What you're stance and then on top of that? It's just being the aggressor Right if you're if if you give the defense the ability to try and react off of them I just feel like you're putting yourself at a disadvantage if you always have the defense reacting to what you're doing You're gonna have the upper hand because that's the timing of the the timing of the route in the ball placement All that is just gonna take it. It's gonna do its job for you. You know what I mean? It's kind of like golf man. You got to let the club do the work, right? Just gotta go out there and just make sure you get some good contact, baby That's it. I mean, you know my my line. I'm I'm looking up. I was constantly moving my hands because I want Preferably I want him to react first You reach I teach because once you reach I'm grabbing this. Yeah It's over if I get my hands on you. Yes over. Yeah as a bigger guy. I'm not letting you touch me. Right In today's NFL, what leads you to say you have Unbelievable numbers. Is it the fact that they pass that much more? Or is it the the way the game's called in favor of offense both because you have to understand I think in my 14 year career. I think I had 10 1,000 yard rushes I had a 2,000 yard rush of 1,750 yard rush of Anybody in there? Yeah Vanko seems it was crazy. Yeah And but that's the way we won the game. Yeah, but now you're playing so much space. Yeah I mean trial has to spend like 80 percent of his time in a flex position. No doubt Yeah And to be able to stand up and see the field I can see see that triangle. I says, okay I'm gonna stop y'all a player. No cover to it But y'all finna go to court of y'all finna go to lurk y'all a player no to Y'all not playing y'all playing cover six. Who y'all kidding? Yeah, so I can see all that you have to understand when I'm in a down position About my third step. I have to have read the defense. Yeah It's now if I'm in an opposition, I can see already know what you're going to go to Well, and once you're once you've removed yourself from the box, they have to declare. Yeah, if they don't, yes They're gonna be compromised. I know I could I can see oh I'm watching from the tv now. I was like, got that guy cheating down. He coming There's a reason why this safety is cheating down because it got over travel his club. He's coming Yeah, like you do realize he can't hear you but I know I hope we can hear you We're on a safe page But another thing that has helped out a lot in terms of just defensive recognition is coach read up loves to put us in motion And what that does to the defense to have to communicate changes a lot of the rules especially in the box And the and the safeties when they come down into the box, but it's just it helps declare everything Yes And we did I want to say we did one of the dumbest things ever in college For a tight end what oh my gosh. We would stand with our hands on our hips So that from the hour did they when I would use do that when I tell you I've seen guys get jacked Yeah, yeah in the run game looking like that, but it was to try and help see what's See what's going on on the other side of the field because when you when you have your hand in the ground I mean, yeah, you can still kind of see everything but for the most part You're just seeing what's in front of you right? Well, the thing that really helped me is that because I started out is that Reading the reading the triangle. So but I when the time I get down where I got down I was like, okay over front. This is what they like to play in the over front Just like they what they're playing the under front and so by my third step Okay, this is what it is now go when you say read the trying what's that mean? I don't know well I'm looking I'm looking at you you and you I'm looking at corner corner. Yes safety safety I'm looking at the backside. I ain't worried about the backside corner. I'm looking with that safety Yeah, so are you gonna rock and roll which means one of you come down the other go to the hole sure Are you gonna split? Yes, or are you gonna stay there and show me that it's quarters gotcha. Yeah, so And right away, you know just by that notion and now I got I know my what I got to do with my route At the end of the day, I'll give it down what you do If long as when my back foot hit you ready to get the ball The hardest thing for me was to slow myself down because I was getting open but John wasn't ready to throw the ball Yeah, and so by the time he's ready to throw the ball the defense is a caught back up He's like hey, you got to slow down. Yeah, because I'm so hey whoop whoop But he I was like, you like, bro. I mean Exactly, but no even left progression because here's the thing One two three. Okay, the ball's gonna come out one two three four five the ball's gonna come out It can't cover you out of five step a drop and you I can't throw it in three. Gotcha So now okay now rhythmic now I got okay. I got time I can really set this guy up and the thing was I'm working on things in practice And it's like and the guy the thing that really helped me is that guy a Safety would tell me a you tip that one. I was like, bro. How you guys? That's all my bad stuff. He said I could tell you started getting on your toes Yes, it said when you get on your toes you break it in or out now I got a guess which one but because you stayed inside of me. I had a feeling that you was gonna break out Yeah, so now that that key smell. Okay. I got I got to stay on my toes Yeah, if you compete the guys in practice that see you every day That's seeing you every day for three four or five years come game time They got no chance because I don't care how much film you walk if the intricacies That you can pick up when you're like right there Yeah, like certain guys foot plate. I watch a guy and I'm just looking at his feet. Yes He's square. Oh, he's run. Oh, he got a split staggered. Just a little bit. Yes. Oh, you finna come on a blessing, ain't it? Yes, you finna run, ain't it? I know. Yes. Stop lying. You are coming Seriously, no, all those little things add up and that's what that's a mark when you got a good team I'm going three two boats with two different teams two different teams only Isn't that feedback is important for you. Yeah, wait if you see something in your buddy You might as well tell them because the damn sure that they're gonna see it on film Right or the or there or some of you play a bunch in your division is gonna start to feel that tendency, right? Or you see a guy heave him a downstand or if he's like a city lineman. He like oh, you drop it? Yeah, yeah, you're not coming you're not gonna come so why you why you why you have barely touching the ground, right? Because if you've got to approach you're you can't get up out of there. Yeah, or yeah You have barely touching you talked about evened up stands versus elongated, right? You know first second down a lot of those delimen more evened up right they're getting ready to defend the run Right all of a sudden they drop that foot back on first second down. You're like, okay, somebody's tipping them Yeah, why does this dude getting in a pasture and stands first second down? They started looking to tackle tackle state like yeah, it's a whole yeah We gotta get to the down. I can't be having dudes right passing the roots. No one when it's past or run Yeah, that ain't fun. And they get on different levels like which are y'all twisting to me? Which I got going on white house on such different level. We're giving up too much information to do They Delight ain't thinking about all this are they they're going they're getting smart now They're getting they used to not they're getting smart And now you know what they're doing is they're recording the game footage and they're getting your verbiage Yep And I think it's happened to more now than it ever used to go And they're and so now it's on us to really change it up and to make it so that similar calls are happening to run and pass or This play in that place so that you can't get pigeonholed. Hey every time he says this is They're blocking man. Oh man. Every time he says this it's a pass play every time he says this is a rumbly You can't do that anymore one of my best games we play in the charges and um Junior say every time they said Reno or Nevada they went to a cover to yeah And so I said I said I said so I said oh my Every time they say they say Reno or Nevada. Yeah, they go cover to he's like really I said no matter what the other With an over front or under front it does not matter when I hear Reno They've got every single snap every time they went to it. I ended the day with I was uh, let's just put it like this I was on L.C. I'll fix the play That's nice We got that game we talked about sev run pick We're all stuck about no cell phones. Yeah, what was it like getting drafted? What was it like? It was in 1990 1990 What was it like getting drafted in 1990? Well Back then the draft started on Sunday was it all in one day? No, it was uh, I think the first two rounds were sunday And then the next monday was the rest of the draft Okay, and then when I didn't get drafted on sunday I was at my brother's house in south carolina And so I didn't get drafted so I remember going upstairs and they say bro. We gonna be good Uh, he's like bro. Don't even worry about it. You know, hey, I got you whatever whatever happens gonna happen I say but I got you I said man. I just want an opportunity So we woke up there. I woke up next morning. Come on man. I got I just want to go left Let's go live. Yeah, so we at the university side of kalana. We're in the gym How are you lifting his wildest drafts going on? Yeah, they're drafted because I'm already that's like it is what it is Yeah, but how are you gonna you ain't got a cell phone? How they gonna call you? It is. I wasn't even worried about it So I remember I'm in the gym and I'm working out. It's like hey, uh, call for Shannon Sharp. I'm like I'm here Yeah, it's coach Reeves. Uh, no, it's lyd huggens lyd huggens at the time He said uh, we just took you in the seventh round and you excited to be a bronco I said, I'm man. I'm very excited. So I really appreciate this. I said you guys ain't gonna regret this dad coach read gets on the phone coach read says okay I now know about your brother and uh, but your brother can't catch any passes for you here He says I expect you to come in and work. I said coach read. I'm gonna work hard. Yeah, I'll show you So you're in the gym. I'm in the gym working out. Hey, that's got to be the most exciting news I had a man man. You call a guy to get drafted and he's in the gym working out. I am I am like, yes We got a play. We got the right We got the right they got the ticket. They send me the uh, I go to the go home get my bag Send me a ticket. I go out there. Yeah, and um same thing. I said when I went to Savannah state I was like man. I can't go back. I got to make this team. I said man. I can't go back to class I can't go back to glenville can't go back to Savannah state and I'm not on the roster man I said man. I had too much of had a great career in Savannah state Nobody believed them and nobody believed that I can make it from glenville go to Savannah state They're like, yeah, you're the best player here, but you won't be the best player at college You're the best player college you ain't gonna make I said man later for that. So Man, I got the Denver I just work work and I remember we're in training camp And this is what I I like I would never do this when I make this team. I'm never gonna do this. I didn't know the play So I asked you I said man what I got on this route is they run this Guess I go in there. I run it. It's wrong Bad cozries cozries you to get upset and there's this big old big old vane, but popping out the side of his thing What are you doing? If you don't know the f and play don't go in the game I just look at a what but we complete for the complete for the job. Yeah, that's crazy So I said never had it in me do anything. Yes, bro. I said I would never do anything like that But you think he did on purpose? Of course he did. I mean you could be a boy job. You know, hey, it's suspicious I know he knew what to do because he was there the year before right it wasn't like so it was all good And I just know just make sure I know what I'm supposed to do. So not all I can't I can't fault him Because I didn't know hell. I should know what to do from the beginning But I just would enough he could have just said I don't know. Yeah, that's a pros mentality to take right there I was fucking pissed at him though. No, I mean, look when I was in Baltimore They drafted Todd heaping the first round. I know Todd They got to let Todd play sooner rather than later But my job is to get him ready as soon as I possibly can because there's something happened to me during the season Todd's gonna be ready to play Todd is gonna be a reflection of me. How well he plays that year How well he moves plays moving forward Was had a lot to do with the information and little subtleties that I taught help teach him along the way So for me, I was never insecure about about, you know Somebody beating mouth for the job. You know, I tell guys all the time. I taught him everything. He knows I didn't teach him everything. I know I say I say some of that You drafted as receiver. I was drafted as receiver Travis. I think by most Uh, people's going You draft there's a quarterback. No, well, you know, I am a receiver Yes, I think those people say Travis is not a tight end. He is a receiver What is the difference anymore between the title? Are they like we play 11 personnel, right with the F receiver Yeah, he goes out and digs that safety out. Okay. We do the same thing out of 12 They're a nickel regardless. Right. What is a tight end just a receiver? Yeah, they come in certain offense They call the receiving tight is now They distinguish them because they're really like nobody really runs the ball So they're not needing the tight end to be at the point of contact. Yeah I mean, basically, you know, he's doubling and lean up going to the same thing or they doubling and getting up to the backer This group blocking the things of that nature sure but where he's like responsible I mean kiddo setting the point not kiddo. Yes. He does He's a dog. He's a boy dog. Hey, hey, hey, he puts him a clinic Yeah, he puts on a clean. He dumping people on their back. It's impressive. Yeah, very impressive Yeah, especially like you said those four down defense events or putting their hands in Bar here. It stands to go one-on-one with a guy in a seven technique or the digga guy in a five Yeah, I had no chance with a five of a big Bro, don't you cut that back? You just cut back. You're gonna put that help into your hip Run just cut them. Oh, we did not we we know that we I don't think you can you cut now? You can you can if you're attached if you're attached you can you can't uh test it line You can't do you can't like post them up and then cut them. Yeah anymore They got a way that but as long as you're in the tackle box and within five yards plus or minus Yeah, you can still do it, but it's it doesn't happen that much. I first my first five years in the league I was throwing at everybody. I was throwing at safeties corners. Oh, yeah Oh, yeah, but if you go back and watch out tape is like synchronized women Yeah, because that for all four down line will feet well up in there Yeah, so we don't cut everybody. It's like a mandatory cut on the back side, right? Yeah, and that's the way it was when we first started right outside zone when I first got installed You didn't have an option. Yeah, you're cutting on the back side. Absolutely because the thing was we were a cutback team Yeah, and TD needed to know he could cut back and the helmet wouldn't be in his hip, right? so I'm putting him. Are you going on the ground bro? Yeah, yeah, you're going on the ground What was the hardest type of player to cut you think lateral? Yeah, if they're moving lateral then it's a little bit like I don't know if I'm again The thing was I was so quick. Yeah And so I could hey and before they know it and you know, they try to get I but I'm up under You're already under I'm up under and so all I all I needed all I needed was the with the tackle To like make him do this. Yeah, if he did that it's over. It's done It's over but I turned and he's not square anymore. He can't send it. Yeah, it's over. It's over for him And I and uh, I mean I had some great tackles I mean both of my tackles in the hall of fame gary zerma with a two-time all-in-a-fail player in the 80th and the 90s And then Jonathan Ogden was all all decade played in 2000. Yeah, so Well, yeah, 80th and 90th with zim and then and jail was uh, and I said look guys. I'm coming. Yeah, I'm coming So they knew I said I'll cut you. I don't want to yeah, I don't want to better get out of the way better get out of the way Yeah It's it's a dying heart. It really is and it's a shame that you know, I don't The end of those always trying to make the game safer. Yeah, but I always felt like that prevented the defense if you're out of control You can get cut. Yes if you're under control and moving like lateral. It's a hard person to cut Yeah, it is so in a way now guys can go out of control There's no what's the harm in going out of control now at the second level a linebacker run right through your face without having to worry about anything Before yeah, we come at me. I'm gonna take them knees out real quick. Yeah, we were notorious for scooping Yeah, oh and we put you on the second level. I mean, Alex give who that uh, with old line coach and a run game coordinator Yeah, oh you had to put him on the ground. Yeah. Yeah, and that's what it drives me crazy with screens to see offensive lineman try to stay up Just throw that you can't anymore can't anymore. You can't cut Really it's elephants. I'm prayed out there in space. Maybe it is the five it is. It is not a good site right now I I used to love it. I used to love cutting out in space Can't do it anymore. You could only within five yards in the tackle box and Donkey Kong He just barrel rolls about you can do it if it's like a middle screen, right? But It's it's risky. Yeah, you gotta get them before you get Yeah, they they outlawed it a few years ago. So that's what I was like, bro Why y'all are not yeah because before the same thing He used to not be an option. Say listen, you're too fat and slow right to try and redirect with this man in space Use that length. I thought you guys were just trying to run over the little guy Well, they do do that too. Yeah, I'm trying but um, no, you can't cut anymore out in space on fortune. Yeah, yeah Anyways, um, I don't know how we just got into a side traffic about cutting. I love cutting But you don't cut anybody When's the last time you cut I give it at least one they're trying to outlaw that cut too now Yeah, they're talking about yeah, you know, uh, the split zone Yeah, they're trying to outlaw that going back and cutting the dm because a couple guys put toward their knees up last year doing Well, dns are just cutting back now. I know There's just there's just two guys trying to cut each other Which is always funny to see just like two guys button heads and falling on the ground right away Which is a win for the offense. Yeah, I'm fine with that Yeah, I don't know. I don't know where we're going with it, but yeah, I like All right. Well, that's enough with cutting we're two brothers in the NFL. Mm-hmm. You very uh, Notoriously had a brother in the NFL. Yeah, what was it like uh, having sturling the NFL as an older brother leading the way? man It was different because my brother we'd have a very different relationship It's almost like he's my father Really because my father died at a young age my grandfather died at a young age And so the dominant male figure that I saw on the regular basis for him And I wanted to be just like him and how what was the age difference three years three years three years everything I went everywhere. He went I wore every number that he wore. I wanted to be just like my brother I mean my first college girlfriend looked just like his college girlfriend I gotta give me one. Yeah. Yeah, man. I'm talking about from the hairstyle. I'm talking about from the way she was built her skin complexion Her teeth they were exact and I I I didn't even think about it. I didn't even think about it until I brought her home and my sister she like That girl looked just like Tammy which was my brother's girlfriend at the time and I was like, I ain't really think about it, but not did you think about it? She really does but it was great because He told me everything that I needed to know And he was always that brother that told me what I needed to know and not what I wanted to hear and He would always like he would always find a way to my basketball games He would always find a way to come back and see a basketball game the track meets He would drive three hours just to see me run He always went to the state track meet and said okay, this is what we gonna do You're gonna help, you know, because you got to throw the disc, you know, I was a field-a-bend guy He says okay, you only got one jump. You only got two jumps You got to win it. You know triple jump was my specialty He said you got to win it on the first-second jump because you still got a long jump later today And you got to throw the disc also. Yeah, and we still got to run later today also So we got to save these legs and so my thing was the nail that first jump Went went to meet with the state with that with that jump And then when I got to college, I wasn't gonna go to Savannah State because after I did I was prop 48 prop 48 went to effect My first year 1986 So if you didn't make 700 SAT you couldn't go to D1 And so at that time I was like I had already lined it up I was gonna take the test I was gonna go to the Air Force and my brother came down and said you will say Savannah State is still interested. I say yeah coach They would say yeah scholarship as long as I wanted it He said you're gonna go to Savannah State and you're gonna go for a year And if you don't like it, you could say hey, I went and it wasn't for me I went And the rest is they say history. So when I'm getting going go to the league He says this is what you need to do. This is how you need to prepare. He says now john l we're gonna come to you one day He said you're gonna need to know what to do and you're gonna need to make plays for him when he does come to you Okay, and so he was always constantly reminding me of things that I needed to do He believed in me even more so than I believed in myself. I remember he was always telling friend He was always when I was in high school. He said he better athlete to me He just doesn't work hard when I got to college and I would go visit him at the University of South Carolina He would always say he a better athlete to me Yeah, but he doesn't we don't work hard enough and then I was like man Is he like really boosting me up or he doesn't really believe that? Yeah, um, I was just like just naturally talented that I could just like okay. You show me what to do I'm a visual learner. Mm-hmm. You you show it to me. Okay, I can go I can do that Right and so And so I was like man I think he might believe that I'm more talented and I was and now that I look back at it I had more God-given ability than he had he just worked harder than I did And so once I combined the God-given ability ability that God gave me With my work ethic and I was like man I could really be and I saw my body transform And I was like I've always I was always like in shape. I've always had muscle I've always was abbed up and but now all of a sudden I'm going from 180 to 190 with abs to 205 with abs to 220 with abs and I was like Yeah I've arrived now and so without that many was managed. It's the greatest thing I just hate and I tell this people all the time I would trade my career Every dime that I've ever earned to switch places with my brother because he deserved To be where I am. Yeah in the pro football hall of fame It broke my heart when he told me he was never going to be able to play the game again I played football football with my worst sport in high school And the only reason I played because he played and I wanted to be like him I was a much better basketball player. I was a much better track athlete But I played football because my brother played and man It broke my heart when he said it was over and it's like man now. I got to Continue the sharp legacy. I got to Go places and do things that what he was doing because at that time, you know, it was he and jerry neck and neck You know, he had won the triple crown. He had led the league in in receptions three times He had led the league in receiving yards twice. He led the league in touchdowns twice And then just like that his last year he would call 18 touchdowns 94 passes over a thousand yards that never played a mother snap at 29. Oh my gosh It was over just still in the prom of his career. Just like that. It was over still a legendary career though Yeah, even in the short term with the amount of games that he played in Is there anything looking back? You wish you would have been able to do with him in the NFL outside of him having success Two against as a brother like two years after he retired we played green bay to super bowl and so We're doing an interview and I say we win this game. I'm he didn't know it at the time. I said, I will give him I will give him marine And so that was my problem of all the things that I've gifted and I've gifted a lot of things You know, I helped a few college people out along the way, you know, you know, I mean That's probably the thing that I'm proudest of of all the gifts that I've given in my life Yeah, giving my brother my first super bowl ring because that meant the world to me because it meant more to me To give it to him than it would have ever meant to me for winning it Did you feel like he was almost just a big of a part of you? Oh, yeah. Yeah, oh, absolutely Absolutely, uh, I don't have the career that I had Had he not been my older brother. I would not have had the career that I had and I'm not giving me the support He gave me just enough To make me hungry to try to go get it. Yeah, uh, he's he's three years older than me But he's two he proceeds me in the NFL. So, you know, he has an m3bmw. Hey, bro. Let me get that come get it So I'm driving on campus hbc you with m3 He has a 930 slant nose porch bm with three with three 30 real uh tires in the back whale tick come get it Yeah, uh, he has a big beans come get it. Yeah, and I'm like I got half this yeah, sale come get it. So I'm thinking to myself, bro. I won't all this it wasn't like and sometimes, you know, people like um, they looked at like what was it like Living in the shadow. I say I didn't I was never in the shadow I embraced and I was his little brother And I wanted to be like him and I wanted to eclipse what he had done So I never felt overshadowed and so he knew That if I just gave him a little It's gonna drive him to go get it. So every every card that my brother got I wouldn't got it Ferrari even though i'm putting the poor house, you know, I'm making 200,000 I got 200,000. I don't know how that works. That's how that works. That business We do not recommend this but what we were talking about on club shay. This is how I went broke Yeah, I went broke it first year's league. Yeah, I've been bad. I'm like, hey, I got a uh, s 500 I got a Ferrari. I got uh, a $600,000 crib and I got a uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, What I have a four-door blazer making 325 I stress you know, I say I bet I bet I bet I bet I bet I said 325 got a hold of it I'll tell you what my brother when he got to league it was uh, he was working with a car dealership Yeah, up in fillies and he had just bought a uh, an f150 brand new f150 and um, me being me, I totaled the car that I had in college so I was walking around on campus and He knew he knew I needed a car Drives his f150 down knowing that he was gonna get a dealership car, right? Uh, to ride around Philadelphia Yeah, I forgot what do I do? I'm like, oh man, I I got this really nice car I wasn't traveling because I had this kind of hoopty That was just getting me to campus and back So I take the car within the first 10 hours of me having the vehicle I go I go up to cleveland You know, uh, visit the uh, the the boom boom room Went to the strip club came back out of the strip what happened when you left the strip club travers that car was gone But man left the keys in the car No, no, no, no. That's the keys in the car. He didn't tell me there was a spare key in the glove compartment. I had the key. I just didn't lock the car. First of all, he told me that. You're a good guy. What did you tell me? You told me something that was false. What'd you tell me initially? Huh? What'd you tell me initially that was? You lied to me initially. Did I lie? Yes. Like always. You always lie. That's my first go-to. Yeah. Initially, I told the insurance company what he had told me. Right. In the insurance company. No, that's not what happened. They found the car two months ago just in a random mall parking lot with no gas in it. Yeah. No broken windows. No nothing. No nothing. They're like nobody forced the way into this vehicle. Heh heh heh. Heh heh. All right. Well, here in Utah- We got that up for 50 back though. We got it back. We got it back. You also ran it into the ground and it broke down within a couple of years after getting back to it. Nah, don't put that on me man. Yeah, I'm putting that on me. That wasn't a part of the story, man. All right. It didn't last long. You know, here in the way you talk about Sterling, it makes sense that this is how you talk to young players or to talk to current guys like Trev. Like, you know, I think that his impact on you and how you felt you try to do that to other players. It's very clear. And I just want to say, I appreciate you reaching out to Trev. You already know. I'm passing along. That's what it's supposed to be playing. Right. That's what it's supposed to be. That's what it's supposed to be as a former player, an older player on the team. Like, I don't know. I just- In every field, in every field, whether it's business, whether it's, I'm trying to help anybody be the best version of themselves. Yeah, I don't. But a lot of times, like, I've talked to guys and I don't really tell people who I talk to because I don't want the guy to think that, oh, you telling people that you helping me, you want- You're doing it just for- No, no, no, no, no. That's not the way it's supposed to be. Yeah. So I'll always ask, you might have if I mention something like, oh, no problem. So I'm very conscious. Not to say, like, I talk to such and such unless, you know, they're like, you know, I would talk to a laugh, it's Gerald. And he's like, hey, I don't care. But for the most part, if I talk to a guy, I never mention it on air because what we talk about is just between here. And I, it's just like, sometimes like, do you mind if I mention, I was like, hey, I reached out to him, told him there's some things that I saw that he was doing that can might help him. And he's like, he appreciated, he gave me the thumbs up. He's like, he appreciated it. But that's for the most part. That's what I do. I just, I just feel like, you know, it's my job is to give back. Right. If to help those guys be the best they can possibly be. And hopefully when they're in a position and they can help and they can give back, they give back. It doesn't do me any good to have knowledge that I know can help someone and not share it. Right. I got to ask this before we get this last. Okay, go, go. It's all by the way, three Super Bowl teams. Yeah. Out of those three Super Bowl teams, I'm just going to pick the two. The Broncos, Ravens, those teams. If they go at it, who's winning? Which team am I on? Ah! Well, not even honest. That settles that. That was the easiest one. All right. There you go. That was shit. I will say this, because that Ravens defense, you can't play defense like they played back then. Right. If you go back and look, they played four playoff games and they gave up three, ten, three, seven. You can't do it anymore. And now, and the seven came on a kick return. If you go back and look at, it was like, punt, punt, punt, punt, pick, punt, pick, punt, fumble, punt, pick, punt, punt, down. Yeah. Wasn't it, wasn't it like the first time? I mean, it was out written games of the season they didn't allow a touchdown. Well, not only are they not allowing touchdowns, they're scoring touchdowns. Yeah. We were not. I mean, it was like... Well, I think the thing for them, the defense, if your quarterback finished the game, you can consider you won, because they was knocking your quarterback out. Wow. They knocked your quarterback out the game. That's fucking football right there. You bring back that. They gave up a hundred. They tried. Or not that. Then I don't want to do this anymore. They gave up 165 points in 16 games. Wait, time I say that again. I don't know. They gave up 165 points in 16 games. Oh my gosh. Now, you do realize, pick sixes go against their total. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That's amazing. They gave up. They gave up... They gave up an average of 10 points a game. Yeah. They gave up. If you look at what they actually gave up, they gave up three points to the Broncos in the playoff game. They gave up 10. They gave up three. They gave up 16 points that defense in four games. That's unreal. I mean, it was unbelievable watching that. I talked about it. One of the highlights of my career, welcome to NFL moments, was blocking and playing against Ray Lewis. Yeah. Like, I mean, I'll never forget that because I grew up playing linebacker. I just wanted to be Ray Lewis, who was like, my idol. That's who I wanted to be in life. And to be actually blocking him was crazy. Yeah. And I remember watching those Baltimore freaking defenses. It was insane. Yeah. They were so good. Yeah. They literally went into the game, trying to knock your quarterback out. And for the most part, they did it. They did it. I mean, they had, I think they had like four shutouts that year. They gave up one game. They gave up open and drive. I think it was the Cleveland. They had like several shutouts. They gave up 86 yards and the open and drive. They gave up 15 yards the rest of the game. 15. Did you imagine how demoralizing that would be? scoring 10 points period is already demoralizing. I can only. We always got this half 15. Yeah, we have 15. What? We should just be running quarterback sneak every play. We'd have more than a yard. He mentioned welcome to the league. Do you have a welcome to league moment? My first year there, we played the 49ers in the preseason. They had just beat the Broncos the previous year in the Super Bowl 55 10. So now I got a chance to see Joe Montana. I see Jerry Rice. I'm like Matt Ronnie lot. I'm like man. I mean, I'm the CJ the CJ run down the sideline to see Joe run down the sideline to see Ronnie lot. And then later that year, Aussie Newsom was my favorite player growing up to see Aussie. It was just like to see guys that you saw on television and then like going out to the Raiders and you see the Raiders and you see Al Davis and you see James Garner who was in the rock for foul and then you saw the Raiders. And the way they had it like you come out the tunnel and the cheerleaders like 40 of them just lined up. They didn't design it like that. They didn't. Yes, because I would have that. I got it. We just had the heads out of the game right now. I got a hand into the old special team, but I was distracted. That was it. You're seeing guys and you know, you play the Steelers and you see Joe Green and you see Franco Harris and you see all the grace that you saw like growing up and you see these guys, although you know, they weren't in uniform, but they I did my rookie year Webster, Mike Webster. Yeah, was the center for the Chiefs. That's right. He did go to the Chiefs for a couple of years after. Yeah, Iron Mike and he had to sleep rolled up. Yeah, he was he was he was Jack. Yeah. Yeah, no. Yeah, he was a I mean, that's the best center ball time probably. So well, guys up there too. But I mean, it's still I mean, it's still is out of me. He, Dermaty Dawson, I know, Stevenson. Yes, the Dolphins, Stevenson. Yep. Yep. They've there's some dogs. So it's hard to give it to one guy. Yeah, but I think let me put it this way. When I came into the league, Howard mud Institute of one rule. As the center, it was my job to do it. It was called the wavy rule. Right. And the wavy rule was when the ball gets spotted and we break this huddle, you don't walk to the line, you run to the line. And the reason that we did that is because Mike Webster didn't. And when you have a rule named after somebody, you one of the graduates. Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, I think him and Jim Otto are the all all 100 anniversary team. Yeah. I think him and Otto the double ego. Yeah, it fits. Yeah. Yeah. Here. Let's get let's get to this last section. This is the you don't have to answer it, but we got to ask. Okay. Okay. First one is previously on this on this show, we asked could an average person rush for one yard in the NFL? So we're asking you right here right now, could Skip Bayless get a single yard in the national football league if you gave him? No. I'm not saying because because he's average ain't no way they're going to let him go to yard. They're going to go out of their way. Yes. And I'm not so sure the office is flying to go block. Y'all. That's what's going to happen with that one. You won a Super Bowl in Raymond James Stadium. How does that feel? I mean, I mean, I didn't fake where you've got to lose because I got smoked. Yeah. I didn't like the cannons going off and all that. There was no cannons going off. It's not a good experience. Definitely what no cannons going off for the jazz. So who's a better dresser, me or you? You know, you guys swag. I just can't I got to the party late. I'm going to get your do. I'm going to get your do. You got the shoe surgeons on right now. Yeah. What do I mean? Why am I not in the night? You can't get into it. You can't get into it. What the people who want to be? Yes. He's walking around the mall cutting grass. Hey, these are the grass cutting 3000. Yeah. You already know. Hey, I'm going to get your prop. You do the thing. You already know we had some fun with this. You did that. Could an NFL player play in the NBA and vice versa? Could an NBA player play in the NFL play or be effective? That's a great question. What's effective? I would say be effective like make a name, make a make a my household name. No, no, neither way. NBA in the NFL or NFL. I don't know if you've ever been to the NBA game, but if you just watched the way to say I said the 13th. The way he can shoot the basketball. Time out. He asked a different question. He's saying the same thing that I'm saying. No, he's not. He's saying could he be effective? Could somebody go in there and not fuck it up? Yeah. All I'm saying is the. If I think so, that's the best ticket in professional sports is courtside on the floor. Mm hmm. Okay. Courtside to watch the right. The first time I ever watched that was the day I realized ain't nobody going to feel coming out on this court. It ain't going to happen. No, no. It definitely ain't nobody from the NBA going out there. Only in the field for you. Oh, you don't think so? See this right. They do what? I don't play tight end at Tony O'Gadege, Tony Gonzalez. All these guys play basketball college in this. Yeah, but see, and the thing is, is that, yeah, what you're talking about guys that didn't do that. Gates and Gonzo played. So it was the. But you're talking about both. Yeah, none of these guys. None of these guys is currently playing now. That's a good point. They play football. Maybe since high school. So you don't think Lebron could go out there and catch a couple touchdowns? Hell no. Just go. Just talk for the ball. He don't know how to get up press. What if they don't press them? They go press them. What if they're foolish? Not depressing by the same. Because he going to jump over the top of you and catch it. His arms are like an eight-foot-like spank. That's why I'm going to press it. Because he don't know how to use it. You don't know how to use it. I'm not going to get up press. Yeah. You've had legendary guests on club Shae Shae. Who would be your dream guests that you haven't got on yet? I got a few. Prilla and Obama would be one. Oh, wow. That'd be a, that'd be a good one. Uh, it's a smooth criminal right there. Denzel Washington would be two. The rock would be three. It's the name of the lot of people. I'd say the Oprah would be. That's a damn good list. I mean, God, I don't know that I heard a better list than that. I'd say they all sound like you. Yeah. They definitely get a ball. Yeah. Well, that would be, that would be, yeah. All right. That's awesome. Well, we got one last question from this big guy right here. If you could talk to your rookie self, what would you, what advice would you give you? Sure. Wish my mom would have waited 10 years. Ah, you know what? I mean, I, what would I tell myself? I don't know, get honestly guys. From the time that I made it, yeah, everything was about football. Yeah. I ate, I slept, I breathed, I talked football. And I think I was terrible at a lot of things except football. I was terribly being a brother, terribly being a son, I was terribly being a father. I was terrible at being a boyfriend. I was terrible at all of those, but I was a damn good football player. Yeah. Probably, I wish I could look, I would go back, if I could tell my rookie self, I would say the way you judge success, because everything that I look at now is judged by success. And that's the only thing. And so even my relationships, now here I am about to be double nickel in about four months, is still judged by success. And so I would say, Shannon, everything that you've accomplished, doesn't mean anything because you don't have anybody to share it with. That's what I would tell myself. I would do it, if I would do it over again, I would find that one person, and that's what I would do. That's real. It ain't too late. Nah, nah, nah, nah. It's really late. Nah, nah, nah, nah. It was better than me. I was like, you know, I'm hit, hit. Yeah, I know. Sure, we're saying, okay. I like that. Yes. So this is how we show, this is how we close the show. See, yo, you like my brother, but we're like, so I mean, we're similar, but we're so different. Yeah. We're so different. You like, you married, settled down early. You know, me. I'm at Calypse, I say. He's more talented and more athletic. Dresser. A lot of things going for, what, yeah, let me, this isn't even on the thing. What is Sterling doing now? Golfing. He's golfing, yeah. Yeah, he's a golfer, meet him on the tunnel. Yeah, he's a scratch golfer. That's pretty damn good. Yeah, but he plays every day. Yeah. He's like, he's like most, I guarantee he practices as much as a tour pro. He's hitting the range. Got range, shipping, putting, you can get into it? Nah, bro. I'd rather, my hobby is the gym. That's what I like to do. I like to work out. Does he give lessons? Because I can't play golf. Nah, that's, I mean, for you, you're gonna have to wait till you're done. That's the thing, that's too fast. You're too tight up here, you gotta be able to be fluid. I know. That's why the quarterback, because they don't really do no upper body. So they, they can, they can do it. They can get the hips around. They got the movement in the chest. Yeah, yeah. That is one, I did take one lesson. I never taken a lesson. So it took a lesson. And the one thing that I took from it, the golf pro said, when you get done, do you plan on losing weight? He's like, come back when you do that. You definitely gotta be small through here, do it towards. All right, well that wraps it up for this episode of New Heights. Again, thank you so much to the legend. The legend. Thank you. Shav for coming on Club Shae Shae. Make sure you subscribe to Club Shae Shae on YouTube, and follow a man on. And also listen, subscribe to us, wherever you get your podcasts. And click that subscribe button, if you're watching on YouTube. And don't forget, our live show is happening Wednesday, April 26th, in the music hall. New heights will be live and in person. Live! So keep following the show to find out how you might be able to snag some tickets. All right now. Once again, New Heights is presented by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by our friends at Fireball. Oh, wow. Follow the show on all social media platforms at New Heights Show with 1S. For fun clips throughout the week, thanks to our production and crew for always making us look good. And thank you to the 92%ers and thank you to Aunk for coming through and blessing us for having me all the time. For the evening man, until the next time. Peace! Y'all love it, man. I love you, man. ♪♪♪