The Real Combine Experience, Blown Interviews & NFL Scouting w/Daniel Jeremiah | New Heights | Ep 30

I went around and like shook everybody's hand and I said their name after I shook their hand and I think I was just doing out of nerves and they were like why are you just repeating our names after and I was like oh it's just a tool that I used to like remember people's names and then they're like okay what's my name and I was like you got me Welcome back to New Heights ladies and gentlemen the Juicz original show presented by wave sports and entertainment New Heights is a show that shows off our trophies oh you like that Nickelodeon back there don't you and then I got the I got that big old Cleveland Heights that's a trophy either one of us is all right now shout out to the one that gave it to me we are your host Tom Travis Kelsey this is my big brother Jason Kelsey out of Cleveland Heights Ohio ironically and University of Cincinnati grads I can proudly say that New Heights comes to you every single Wednesday but today we're coming to you on a Monday so the the days might change now that we're out of season but if you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts at New Heights show with 1s on all social media platforms we can communicate with you guys on what exactly is coming up in the future so make sure you click that follow button and Jason what we got coming up well we got a very special episode this one Trad this one was recorded when I was at the combine by all my phone while you were preparing for the one of the highlights of your life Saturday Night Live all right we're going to talk about all things NFL combine scouting how teams build draft boards and now that it's wrapped Travis and I will describe what it's like for players to go through that I know it's a little late but we were a little busy as we said the week of the combine so we're getting to that now all right now I had an incredible conversation with NFL Network's own Daniel Jeremiah also formal Eagle Scout I don't know if you knew that Triad I did not know that about all things scouting drafting and what he thought of me is a prospect coming out which I can't wait to hear it it seemed like it was authentic and I trust Daniel who who who do you think of me what do you think of me we'll get to it okay you're not gonna be happy all right anyways before we get to it new news news coming in hot we are back climbing the ranks and happy to be back for the offseason and you know we just want to thank you it's now that the offseason is here now that the offseason is here again just thank you to all of our 92 percenters out there everyone who supported this pod help to get to where it's at today we're looking forward to giving you guys this pod this entire offseason we're gonna have some fun we're gonna have some fun ladies and gentlemen now that it is the offseason we're gonna double down we're gonna try and bring you guys more episodes we have more time to do this double J- just gonna leave the house just gotta get outside baby and then we we're gonna do some things where we we take our game to new heights we're gonna kind of venture into some new worlds hopefully and show you guys exactly what we're talking about eventually but calving season starts in April get your boots now also we know today is the day that tampering starts this episode was obviously pre-recorded so we're not going to be able to give any insight to the tampering period but we will be offering that at a later date um tampering period has also has always been a little weird um what do you it's kind of like period again tamper periods oh no you got to tell the ones that don't know so tampering period is your agents are allowed to talk to teams and facilitate deals and make agreements just like free agency but it's not official yet so we can get the ball rolling i don't know why that got passed it really doesn't make any sense to me because all the contracts and things end up getting leaked before free agency officially starts on wednesday i think that's why i think that's why i think that's why right there yeah so everybody i think they just want to they want a big facebook creation concept yeah they want they they want it doesn't become facebook official till wednesday until then it's all just hearsay but we can't wait to comment on all the free agency it's gonna be some big moves made obviously the eagles we have a lot of free agents up so it'd be interesting to see where guys start landing and getting picked um and to see who's getting paid and um love to see teammates getting paid one of my favorite things bob to see teammates getting paid we'll find out if erin roger's gonna be a jet i know jets jake are the guy who runs all of our social medias if you interact with anything new heights it's it's it's my man jets jake um yeah he's very curious to see if erin roger's ends up a jet uh we're also gonna see if uh someone pays lemar jackson and uh pay that man i guess we'll find out maybe if i'm playing or not by then um anyways what who really knows though i do i know yeah i know what do you know i know that you're gonna make a decision soon because you love the eagles and you want to make sure that they know who's coming back what i do want them to know the problem is i have to know myself hey uh before we get to uh the rest of this show we need to shout out one of our sponsors fireball fireball takes any event to the next level especially celebrating and winning the big game fireballs iconic tastes fire and goes down easy making it the ultimate crowd pleaser that's why it's the number one shot in the country that's right is it's iconic cinnamon flavor taste is absolutely fire and what i really like about the fireball shooters is that there's no shot glass needed you just crack that thing open knock it back Jason you look like you're throwing fireballs left and right are you big fireball guy huge it's the number one shot in the country trap don't know if you've heard just crack it and enjoy it you can get fireball wherever you purchase your fine spirits all right now all right moving on to new merch we got some merch we got a huge update from our friends over at homage and that we just dropped some uh brand new merch the uh t-shirts no dumb questions which is fire i can't wait to get my hands on that one and then uh stamp of the week you already know what that entails taking your game to new heights so uh we got those two shirts coming at you hot uh homage dot com slash new heights so if you want to grab those things check out our friends at homage dot com slash new heights baby um hey now let's get on to our 12 bold topics hail of the NFL combine recapping the NFL combine so excited to see how many topics we actually touched today but uh let's start with a little bro back about the NFL combine love it we didn't get to touch base last week because uh it's a little busy little busy doing a lot of things and uh trying to be a whole bunch of different people all in one sitting is crazy obviously that being saturday night live Jason you were the first to uh to get drafted and go to the combine when did you know you were headed to the combine to those the people that don't know how this happens how do you how do you remember it happening i can't remember if the team told me i definitely don't didn't open a piece of mail because i didn't open mail college this i don't know if anyone else you still use your you still use your you see email i did for a long time it shut i'd use it for long enough and then it just shut down on me oh because you weren't taking classes i think after like 10 years of graduating they just shut your email off i guess i know yeah all right now it's not working so uh yeah you got a new email but i yeah i don't know if they email it to you they mail it to you i do know that at some point your agent says you're invited to the combine and you're immediately try and select a combine training facility well you've probably already selected that in anticipation have the funds to be able to do that you know what i mean because it that it's not free you know i mean like you're you're typically your agents your age of age for it usually yeah so the way it works a lot of times at least for guys the agents think are going to sign with an NFL team is they will pay the cost to these trading facilities for the player uh knowing that they're going to get reimbursed when the player signs a contract guys that aren't invited to the combine still end up going to train at these facilities because there's still pro days there's still um there's a lot of guys that get drafted that don't go to the combine don't know if it was dana jr. mire or if it was rich eyes and that said what percentage of players go to the combine that get drafted but it's like 98 percent of the guys that go to the combine get drafted which i did not know that's it's a very large number yeah i mean we were just talking about how the the entire beginning process of the combine and that's essentially what it is if you're fortunate enough to have an agent that's willing to pay for you know what i mean your uh your training your combine training your pro day training uh you know that's a fortune i know a lot of guys just send up going right back to their college um and training at their college because it's typically free you can just work uh you're still got your scholarship a lot of guys you know i mean still uh kind of living off of the the college life and uh you can go to your teams or your school's uh weight room to be able to train and get ready for your pro day once you get to one of these facilities um and there's a bunch of them all over the country you really start training more for a track meet than you are training for to be a football player 100 percent much different you know the whole your whole life you're training to be the best you can well not your whole life for college at least you're training to be the best you can as a football player you really are um everything is designed to make you for me the best office alignment for Travis uh the best tight end and uh when you get to the combine it's all about trying to get to the optimal weight the optimal condition to test the best um and most likely to run the best uh you know some guys worry about 225 tests depending on the position but the majority of it comes down to how can we make our 40 time look the best how can we make all these different drills um look the best how can we make sure that we're on top of all the uh receiver drills and like catching the ball like you're repping everything you're gonna do with the combine at these places um now and I don't think they did this when I was coming out but I think now they actually like test the wonder like before like there's a whole like strategy to test yeah yeah which I don't I don't know if you're getting any better the wonder like over if you're in the scores like a month or two this is my hypothesis if you're score and low enough that you need to to study don't do it better I feel like most of those guys aren't studying the test to get better I think that's fair to say right you only get knocked on the questions that you your point is how many questions you answer correctly so if you don't answer a question you technically don't get anything knocked well it's not about knocking you just your score ends up being a number and that's how many questions you answered correctly so there's 50 questions so the best you can get is 50 so if you're confused on a question just I can't keep it just skip it that's the well that's the advice that they give you try and try and try and answer as many questions you know the the point of the test is to try and answer as many questions you can right that's one of the things that I've I only answered half the test because I'm a slow reader and this is another thing that I like have a problem with the wonder like a time test in general is if guys are slow readers they're not going to have great wonder like score tests I almost feel like a wonder like score the questions are so easy I almost feel like the guys that don't score well on those are just not good at reading that's fair because the questions really aren't that hard on it no I'm with you except for like some of them I mean there's there's one or two math ones that are a little bit wordy but like for the most part 20 of the questions train A is moving at yeah time out okay the trade cave the train left Phoenix train A okay Phoenix is on Pacific standard time a drop Phoenix is on a mountain draw draw a train with the A on it trade A is moving it's for a drag game up and the test is over please pass it to the front I was still I was I didn't even get the train B yet just got done putting drawn in the windows yeah there's a long window way of saying I think the wonder like score and in terms of evaluating football intelligence is next to like as far not important as possible that's where I put the wonder like test yeah but it is kind of funny to see some of these scores I mean it is it's amusing it's when you see it bad when you see it really if you get a below a 10 I wonder like it's definitely it's funny I don't know another way to say it there's a bunch of preparation that goes into it I mean from nutrition to to everything the the fundamentals of the 40 the shuttle the you know you're training for just about two months or yeah just about two months for your bench press and you see guys just bulk up and just become absolute bees going into this combine and then you get to the combine and it is a mental drag for for a lot of guys that you know haven't been in a situation like that I I know it was a mental drag for me going from team to team answering the same questions getting asked the same stuff about our medical stuff like injuries drawing out process yeah throw you in a pair of spandex and take every I take a picture of you in every angle of your body measuring every inch every heads like a slab of meat slab of sausage every single inch there you go and yeah it's a pretty interesting and weird process but when it comes down to where you can actually make some progress I think is in the team interviews and when teams are teams are asking you to you know put on a board your favorite play and and does it change versus coverage can you read coverages what are you looking at on certain plays that they might have some of your film they might throw it up on the TV and ask you what your thoughts are or how you're being coached on certain things so you it just it helps them understand how good you are at communicating what you're being taught which also means how much confidence you have and what you're doing out there on the field in terms of fundamentals how far down the road are you in terms of understanding scheme yeah and I think that goes way further than any wonder look score ever for sure that is if I can talk about the different coverages I was seeing and you know how I altered my route or how I went through my progression or how I picked up this blitz and I knew this blitz was coming because of the scheme and because of what you saw on on the film the the week before or what your coaches had been tell you know all that communication if you show that you're you have a business like approach to the game at the college level that's automatically a a check in the box of just you know him being ready for for the NFL because that's what they really want to see they want to see guys that can come in and start right now with that business like mentality yep I think I think there's three major components that are going to improve your draft stock the most one obviously is your film how you played your senior year is the biggest determining factor two is medical if you're not going to clear medical you got injuries that they're worried about or you're going to if you if they're worried about injury all of a sudden you pass those injuries or medical doctors past shift it'll improve your stock the third way is these team interviews I mean this is a team game this is a relationships game this is you're interacting with players and coaches and and they want to see guys that they want to be around right um you still got to play don't get me wrong but that can definitely be a deciding factor and how much the team likes you how much where that chemistry fits in at if you remind them of certain people all these things factor in these team interviews do you have any notable interviews I only had I think I had three formal interviews so I'll say this to at the combine there are informal interviews and formal interviews informal you're in a big room every team has that position that you're at you're at like a lunch table and everybody's it's a free for all and they're just running and grabbing you and they're trying to get you and basically fill out a very generic sheet that they're having everybody's the combine fill out formal interview is usually your position coach that's with that team GM head coach usually scouts or OCD offensive coordinator defensive coordinator yeah head scout yeah usually it's the higher ups in the organization that are that are watching uh that are in that room not always I did a Patriots formal and I believe in indy and um bill was not in the room I did a Chiefs formal interview I think nice room for now oh my gosh I think it was the Chiefs yeah that's crazy I remember wasn't Roman Cornell was uh Todd Haley was the head coach well Romeo might have been on defense so which one jumped out at you and why all I remember was in the first interview and I had heard through the grapevine that they liked me a lot that's why I think it was the Chiefs I went around like shook everybody's hand and I said their name after I shook their hand and I think I was just doing out of nerves and they were like uh why are you saying our names after your why are you just repeating our names after and I was like oh I you got it I was like it's just a tool that I use like remember people's names and then they're like okay what's my name and I was like you got me so did not go well with not a good starting point then they proceeded to ask me about some anger issues I had in college apparently and um it went south real quick oh man great times yeah I think uh I had like you have one from the Ravens that's one of my favorites you got to share the random right the rangers wasn't at the combine that wasn't at the combine though that was that was uh top 30 so yeah top 30 at the combine I had some I had some bad interviews uh we already talked about the Patriots one where I was trying to get Belichick to crack a smile and yeah just didn't didn't and couldn't and after I tried just felt like it was an uphill battle from that point on here we go um but uh a lot of these interviews it's kind of interesting to see what teams what approached some teams go because some teams are gonna throw up a play that what's your favorite play some teams are gonna throw up a play that you might have did really bad on um and they want you to kind of coach yourself on this you know what I mean some teams will throw up a play that's not even your film and they're just gonna talk about football and ask you what your knowledge is on this kind of concept or this kind of route right uh you know what I mean it's uh it's cool to see what teams do who do do what exactly um I know the Cowboys and uh shout out to coach Garrett Cleveland Ohio baby uh representing Northeast Ohio up in the uh in the football world um the Cowboys were kind of they were they were kind of pressing me about you know what I mean me having this red flag of missing uh missing a year and just spending first spoken weed yeah back in uh and I had uh I had just I don't know if I was having a bad morning or what was going on but I um I basically was just I don't even know if I want to say this it uh it ended really fast that meeting ended really fast and uh they're typically 15 they're typically 15 minutes long and I was in there for about five minutes I basically just said if you guys think um you know I'm gonna be that kind of guy or you're questioning you know if I'm still that person after everything that I've kind of battled through to get to where I am now from from missing a season um and you guys probably go somewhere else and pick somebody else and uh that is exactly what they did they did yeah they took your advice drafted Gavin Escobar Gavin Escobar who I thought was a stud they were trying to find the um the protocessor for uh Jason Whitten Jason Whitten yeah and um I I botched that interview and um yeah well they had lost lost a few lost a few dollars not this say that they didn't think Gavin was a better player going into that interview you know right yeah who knows what it really was but sure I know I didn't help myself with that one they help you you don't think that no that did not help uh all the other meetings I stayed a full 15 minutes and uh maybe they left and they were like wow this guy really has changed his ways he's very confident now still not as good as Gavin Escobar all right and uh I feel like he was gonna attack me I had like 10 interviews either Steelers was another one where it was it was a really unique interview they had for what felt like everybody in the building in that room and these are you guys got understand these are hotel rooms this is at uh this entire like gate is at like uh convention center slash train station old train station that they turned into a hotel room and they're keeping the train there yeah and the train is like the hotel room is crazy so you go into this hotel room very minimal light kind of dark and you know either they have a tv in there or they're just interviewing you straight up and uh and I go into the Steelers and I say what's up to Mike Tomlin we talk about you know Cincinnati Bearcats and when he coached at Cincinnati that's right um so I'm thinking this interview is going great and everything's you know I'm killing it um at the time they got Heath Miller and he's kind of getting a little older and I'm like oh man they might be looking to see if they can get a tight end and uh and I try you of course me being the fuck I can't be fucking serious ever I sit there and you know those little like side lamps that are out the hotel like those are the only lamps like the the bed light lamps you know what I mean that are just it's just like this little like lamp that's got the little head on it it's yellow yellow light it's not like a real like aggressive light okay and I'm looking at it's like I know that face and it's just staring at me and it's like a mean ass face man that dude looks like he's pissed back there he's not having any of this shit and it just clicks to me it's like is that Joe is that mean Joe Green back there is that mean Joe Green mean Joe Green was in there mean Joe Green is something you know what mean Joe Green looks like of course what that's awesome everyone should he's then one of the most iconic Coca-Cola commercials ever I asked in the middle of me answering the question I was like is that mean Joe Green because that's kind of intimidating that he's sitting right under the light like that and everybody kind of looked back and was no just crickets again just no laughs and didn't learn from the middle interview that's one of those processing how quick of a learner is he well he's still cracking jokes that are bombing he's gonna get funnier or he needs to just shut the fuck up so yeah there was that didn't get drafted by either one of those two teams I feel like I had like 10 to 12 interviews and it's like yeah I don't necessarily know if you want interviews the formal interviews you know me because that means there's some questions that they need answered so I think you want them you want as many meetings as you need as a six-round pick who only had two or three formal interviews I think the more the guys who are getting a lot of the formal interviews got drafted a lot higher than I did and honestly when I got I got in the room with the Chiefs I had a I had a formal interview with the Chiefs you did what they asked me they asked me football they asked me Tom Melvin our tight-end coach it was an in Philly you know real well yes Tom was grilling me on some you know planting break steps on my routes and I I told him you know I mean at the end of the day I just got to catch the ball you know screw the fundamentals you know I got to catch the ball and Tom was like hold on hold on not screw the fundamental because I mean it hit my hands so I was essentially saying like no matter what the fundamentals look like the ball hit my hands I got a fucking ball I mean outside outside yeah the fundamentals of trash Tom there were there were atrocious I get it I got I need to plan a better plan better break but at the end of the day the ball was in my hands and I dropped it and I dropped it yeah yeah so I just want to use that screw the fundamental I don't know if I actually said screw the part of that I'm saying like in my head I would just like yes and I understand those coaching points but they're the only fucking coaching points I just got to catch this ball balls in the air he's gonna fucking talk all right however we got to make that happen we got to make that happen but it didn't even feel like like honestly honestly it didn't even feel like they were really like interviewing me it felt like everybody knew you so well then it was just like all right let's just let's interview the family member and just you know I mean it was almost like I was just in a room chopping it up with like my extended family about football you know I mean like it didn't even feel like it was like a real interview and so I left that room like the sheaves don't want me they were just doing that just because I was you know what I mean one of their favorite guys little brother you know they just wanted to kind of have it on the board make it look like a lot of respect for Jason we're gonna exactly yeah little done no they were they were looking at a tight end so that's the interview portion of the combine hopefully he do better than drafts tonight did the other portion that's the biggest portion actually the whole reason the combine even started is just medical this is a chance for them all to get your entire medical history and the way it works I mean this is a whole day a whole day is nothing but medicals if you need MRIs you're gonna get MRIs if you need x-rays you get x-rays teams were grouped together I think in groups before if that makes sense and you fill out paperwork and you go into the room and I don't know why it's not all at the same time but each of those teams that's in that room get a chance to move your hips around ask your questions be a little bit more personal about your medical history then you get that one checked off and you get in line for the next room and you do that until you're done with all 32 teams and and actually if you're not cleared at that one which I wasn't you weren't cleared either probably right I was not I was in so we both had to go back I think it's two months after that there's another what's I called the the medical day where you have to go back to Indianapolis to it's like a medical recheck I was I was cleared I was clear clear I was post surgery so I was already out of surgery and everything I just wasn't ready to do any of the combine stuff I got cleared by everyone though I had ankle surgery and then I also had I know we've said this before but I had appendicitis at the combine so I had appendectomy so I had to go back for multiple things get cleared yeah not good so the you go through the the team interviews the medical day is a fucking drag but that's honestly one of the days I remember the most because you're just sitting in line yeah with your peers yeah with guys that are going through the exact same scenario as you I remember sitting there Lane Johnson Kyle long those those those sitting in a line with those two dudes I remember we drafted Lane Johnson and he said I met your brother at the combine you reminded me of James Dean and I was thinking he was like he was cool as a cucumber he was like he thought you were the coolest thing he's ever doing my mother fucking dog right there but I thought the same thing Lane well god man those are but those are like the those are the moments and the memories and the stories you hear around the around college football that you know I mean you remember forever man which are which is kind of the cool aspect of everybody doing it in one building one at at the same time as you get the kind of you know say what's up to everybody uh that you've been watching your entire college career the other portion is obviously the on field drills and the testing I did the testing at the combine Trev you did it your pro day right yeah I did select few I have a pro day I made sure not to give them too much if that makes any sense fair enough I actually really enjoy watching the testing I have so much fun watching it I'm glad the the fell shows it because it's it gives you kind of an insight and just kind of gets you to get lay your eyes on some guys without a uniform on a helmet on it you know what I mean yeah I don't take that much away from it like I do think I think I can tell when a guy's running or moving or bending there's certain guys that I actually will take away from the combat be like well I like the way that guy moves I like the way he changes direction look at you scout Kelsey I see you don't I don't like when guys look robotic when a guy looks like he's fighting the ground I don't give I don't care how fast his 40 is I'm not gonna be a fan it's just the reality of it I want smooth I want silky smooth movers that's all I care about dude you didn't like DK Metcalf coming up I didn't like me honestly I would not have liked DK Metcalf's running style and I run very similar DK Metcalf just at like a third of the speed and similar body type of course but I saw I saw DK Metcalf run and I was like oh my fucking gosh that I mean is enormous running that fast that is that is like the the the silver dude in the Terminator the fucking you know what I mean like that run that aggressive just like it like it like he never gets tired he just keeps getting faster faster take a piston this guy's like a machine it's like Jesus it's like watching Adrian Peterson run back in the day just like he's like oh my god you fucking what your ankles and knees holding on you're so aggressive can you just be like just run stuff like everything you don't have to put that much force in the ground do you like I remember watching Lane Johnson move at his combo not watching any of the like and there were a lot of there were a lot of really really good tackles at year and athletic guys to try and armstead end up running the fastest 40 but there was something about the way Lane moved there Fisher big fish number one overall baby was yeah he was number one and Luke Jocal went to and big lane was four and I do think the different drills transitioned to different positions the drills I really like for offensive lineman are agility drills and I like the broad jump although I looked up Mitchell Schwartz's broad jump and it made me feel less important about the broad jump yeah that's bad well everybody's everybody has their he doesn't mean strengths he makes up for a lot of the broad jump in terms of how big he is and is his fundamentals I mean between him and Lane they were the two best plot past block and right tackles for a long time the reason I like the the broad jump is because in order to have a good broad jump you have to be able to have good hip mobility because it's part of it is exploding out but then the other part is being able to like to get the most distance you have to like put your feet out and be able to catch yourself in a very like a very flexible position athletic position you know what I mean yeah listen you know I'm all about them hips you can then hip flexibility I'm that's what I'm all about you and not over the guys they got stiff hips and it's just depending on you know I mean obviously every situation is different you know I mean every situation is different but typically smooth and and hips mobile hips when I see guys like offensive lineman that play with really wide bases that's bad you don't want to play with a wide base but I like that you can get to that wide base if you can't get there if you can't move your hips and with good flexibility functional mobility I just I think it's going to be really really hard to change direction and function at the level you're going to have to in the NFL and I think that's the same thing for receivers like listen I don't want you to be breaking all the time in this extreme position but I like if you can do it you know what I mean I like if I like if your knees don't like I don't like when it got looks like he's a track runner at the combine I like I like when a dude looks like he's a basketball player at the combine I want hips knees I don't care that it's inefficient I want it to be unpredictable that's what I want I'm more technical when it comes to like the route running and stuff I hate a lot how a lot of receivers run routes nowadays where instead of putting purposeful force into the ground it's kind of like they just like spin in place really fast they don't bend very well and a lot of it is just quick feet you know what I mean and you big drum will guy you big drum will guy hate that high school Harry shit so it's terrible terrible but at the same time you're trying to come back if you if you don't know how to run around that helps you understand that you need to work your arms with your legs going in and out of a break and I'm and I'm all for that I think it needs to be in sync though you can't just be up here and your feet aren't running as fast as you know I mean I'll give you a prime example of this we were doing an off-season conditioning drill where you got to go five yards grab a tennis ball come back 10 yards grab the ball come back 15 yards grab the ball come back the receivers doing it and he's like drum rolling at five yards to grab the ball and Lane is just running putting his foot down coming back and he beat him and I'm like what are we doing like full movement there's no point in doing the drum roll if it's slowing you down the only reason you would do that is if it was going to help you get out of your break or make it more unpredictable to the DB where you are going to break right like there's no sense in doing that otherwise the only time the only time I'm really drum rolling is if I'm trying to fuck with the guy in front of me yeah that's what I feel like I'm flaking I'm flaking I'm going to give you I'm going to give you I'm going to play for you if I'm going to run slugo I'm doing a big drum I do the Al Harris coach Al Harris and the X NFL great Al Harris cornerback he he was in Kansas City for forever and I and I did that or I like overly like showed a certain move on a double move right the first move was just super like oh I'm going to run a hitch you know what I mean a hitch and go and he looked at me he said if it's too good to be true do not do it he will fuck with you every time yes like he's like yelling at the DB like if it's too good to be true do not bite he is setting your shit up every single time with that well I'm just like oh I got to stop doing that I was on my ass like you know me it's so funny but yeah Al Harris had me and me schemed up back to the drills I'm looking for hip mobility I'm looking for ability to bend I'm looking for a player that's running athletically not mechanically and I'm looking for a guy that can get to full extension inflection that's another reason I like the broad jump I like slowing it down if you're not just to see if you can get the full if you're not jumping and getting fully extended out and coming back to me that tells me that you're not you're not explosive or you're not a fluid athlete yeah like you should be able to do this movement and I want athletes I feel like you're gonna miss this one guys I could play the game to right man this is all you're right and there's a lot that goes into this yeah I think when you're in the later rounds where you're more worried about missing on a guy or you're not quite sure about the film being the best I'm gonna pick nine times out of ten if I'm a GM the guy who's more athletic and not the guy who necessarily times the best I'm talking about the guy who I think is a better all-around athlete because I just feel like those guys usually figure it out they might not be pro boys they might not be like all pros but if it's an athletic guy he's gonna be able to figure out special teams he's gonna be able to go in in situations and I know he's gonna be reliable I know what I have in them they're less injury prone so those are all the things that I like watching at the combine there's nothing more where I'm like dude this dude is stiff or look at this guy's running and it's like all hamstrings like he's not it doesn't look right like right away unless it's like DK Metcalfe dude you can't look at DK Metcalfe and I'll be like yeah dude I like that I like I like what I just saw should we retake the wonder look? I'm coming I just want to see it yeah I'm in so you always I think you're gonna do better than me you're better at reading you what I'm just gonna say you I am always been a very slow reader if you actually read though you read all the Harry Potter books you were I did I did you sixth grade reading summer reading project I picked up Harry Potter in the source in the Sorcerer's Stone I read that for sixth grade and I was hooked I read every book after although have you ever have you ever read a book and realized that you are not pronouncing any of the names correctly until the movie comes out like my entire life never I've never done that I read all I read all the Harry Potter books before there was a movie which was like four met made Harry Potter Harry Potter man Harry Potter the names I had wrong I had always thought it was Hagard I don't know how why I thought it was Hagard but it's had read out lears Hermione I don't even remember what I thought Hermione was I think I think it was her moan I just gave up on that one I was like I don't know how to pronounce this thing all right well back to us yeah back to the combine sorry sorry about that so yeah well let's retake the wonder look important drills important drills important drills I don't think there is really one specific drill that you can give a certain position that's like all right that's the one that you know I mean you got to see there's so much you can you need to be able to do on the football field I like that they put some weight on the on the sleds so you can actually see who's like because we don't do that in Kansas City we just we just hit the sled like if we're hitting the sled we're hitting the sled and we're working on fundamental we're not trying to see you know how much power we can put into the sweat but I think that's a good good gauge on who's who's putting power into the sled to making and making you know I mean making that thing jump driving that force yeah I agree that was a great one I mean it's like one of my least favorite things because I feel like it's an unnatural grab yeah I mean it feels weird but I agree it is a very good gauge for applying force into the bag and it's a good thing to see a tight end do yeah and then um I like to see the gauntlet I like to see the gauntlet I like to see that's when you got like seven quarterbacks throwing you a football you're running from like sideline to sideline when you're running on the on the line on the line you stay on the line on this side then this side because what it does is it it makes you mentally keep in moving you have to find the next football find the next you know I mean I've seen guys get hit in the face I've seen guys drip over dude but you in a hot seat real quick some guys don't know which way to turn I forget who got hit in the face man somebody got hit in the face off the rip um either way I like to see those two drills to see how fluent guys are catching the football and how much you know what their pace looks like when they're pushing the sled things like that the other two drills that I really like are the agility drills the three cone and the 20-yard shuttle and it's not so much for time I remember what the coaching points were for me when I was running that so I like to see the strategies or lack thereof of guys like I don't think a lot of people realize like to to have a good 20-yard shuttle time it's less about running it as fast as you can and more about hitting the steps and breaking points like purposeful movement yeah like if you go four steps and touch that line and come back coach us up you're going to be faster doing that drill than if you have to take six because you're not being coordinated with your movements even if it's faster you might get to the line quicker doing six but you're not going to come out of the line as fast you're not going to break out as quickly I remember I would run that 20-yard shuttle and I was if I ran as hard as I could I'd be somewhere in the four fours maybe high four threes but when I hit every step I was always low four twos sneaking into the four ones like you run four steps and you don't run you stay lateral because you don't want to have to turn your hips again like the two turns are the biggest time savers on that drill 100 so like if you can maintain your hips square hit that line seven steps this way on your seven step plant left foot down out there's no way your member of this sort of got there not only that I remember I don't know if anybody's getting anything out of this well I just remember on your six step so you you you stay square shuffling basically but aggressive shuffle like you're when you plant with your right foot you want your right foot to be in front of your left so that when you come out you don't have to come back out across your hips you know what I mean yeah I know what I mean when you get down there you one two three four five six step you want to be turning it already yeah so that you're ready to clear your heads you cheat the turn the cheat your hips and then all you got to do is bring your torso around with your elbows and then pause yep and positive shin angle you're gonna come out of there good ladies and gentlemen purposeful movement by Jason Kelsey if you if you do this thing with the steps it's all about fundamentals see that's what Tom Melvin was trying to tell me and I screwed up the three code and drill because I tried to do it in less steps but I wasn't good enough to do it in less steps I tried to do it the way receivers do it but I'm too fat and I had a big gut so I jumped I literally jump in my three comb it would have been better if I would have just started in a right footed stance that was when you had an appendix and then now now that that's out it is that's true now that that's out I could probably do it in three steps so what was it like going back now 12 year veteran in the NFL best center to ever play the game going back to the combine how much of it do you think is just a joke or what did you get a takeaway from it yeah I mean so now that you're a veteran I do think that the combine is a little bit like not overhyped but you know there's you realize that at the end of the day it all comes down to your film and what you do out on the field and you know you want to as long as you get an opportunity to prove that that's what you want and you realize how much other teams kind of it's not the only thing going on the comment as a player participating you think it's all about the guys that are out there running the drills being evaluated slabs of me when you when you go back there you find out oh these guys are just hanging out and bullshitting all day like it's it's basically just a big networking convention where I mean how many deals get done in that little bar at the bottom of the Marriott I'd be really curious to know um or at least where the spark starts you know I mean yeah well and there's a lot of guys there I just found this out this past weekend that don't work for a team like a lot of them are just there looking to get hired there's a lot of guys that are looking for work that go to the combine because they know all the coaches and people are going to be there so they're going to go show their face and hope when a job opens up that they're going to get a job so yeah much different experience not being a participant I thoroughly enjoyed it I got to see a lot of people and a lot of coaches and a lot of guys that I played with that are now coaches not to mention all the wonderful people that I got to interview including the guy that we're about to introduce right now so you've heard non-combine experts give their thoughts on the combine I'm an expert now let's go to the conversation with our draft and combine expert Daniel Jeremiah from the NFL Network this conversation is brought to you by our friends at Accelerator Energy Drake A-Shock baby fueled by nature also known as a shock fueled by nature all right our next guest was a quarterback at Appalachian State University former Eagles West Coast Scout when I first was in Philadelphia now the analyst for the NFL Network you can catch him during all the NFL draft combine coverage this week my guest right now is Daniel Jeremiah how's it going good what's up it's great to see you yeah it's been a minute yeah I guess we'll start it right off let's get all the dumb counting questions out of the way does the combine matter what yeah what do you take away from the I think it does I think you got to kind of know what it is and take it for what it is I think there's people that say like this is dumbest thing ever it has no value you know I don't believe that and I think there's other people that put too much into it but you know I always looked at teams I was on a lot of times we had clumps of players where you had maybe it's three like corners that you kind of have together in that third round you have the same grade on them you know and you now you get to see them in the line out there working out on the same field maybe that little bit separates one or two of those guys so that's kind of what I think the value is just to kind of separate those clumps what is the most meaningful part of it is it the on field drills that everybody sees watching it is the meetings in the teams with the players is it the medical yeah because that's what the combine used to be it used to be just medical right yeah in the day that's the biggest thing okay so like for example for scouts you come in for the draft meetings in December and then we come back after the combine after the pro days and like you'll have guys position on the board and you'll come back and you're like dude where the heck is Johnson like Johnson was like all the way through this guy we're in like medical medical got him you know so then i'll drop a guy down there's some other guys you kind of put in the holding tank on there we're like okay we got to see all the medical shakes out oh he passed so so we're good so that has the most impact but i'd say it's different with different positions like quarterbacks the meetings obviously huge your position the meetings are going to be huge yeah and then corners you know how they run this is kind of a big deal pretty big deal are there any drills for specific i guess positions that you are like this is a really important drill for that position there that you really hone in on when those guys are doing that well i i think probably from being around Jim Washburn during that time i just i mean the hoops always just seeing how guys can bend you know can you really corner i think that for pass rushes is something you can kind of hone in on you learn a lot it's it if you're tight it's going to get exposed in that sure yeah if you don't have the angle for sure how would you guys had you guys doing that stuff too yeah yeah i i think that there's a carry over between o-line and if you can't bend yeah and you can't and you don't have the ankle flexion to get in a good position um you're going to struggle offensive line or defensive line and the hoop drill is like you know for an edge any edge rusher that can get low and maintain the speed coming around that thing like miles Garrett doing that drill is one of the freakiest things i've ever seen man we practiced against him this year yeah and he went up against Jordan melotta hoop is an unbelievable tackle and yeah uh it was so funny because the first day we were out there uh miles wasn't there i think he had some family thing going on and Jordan unbelievable practice and the next day and miles only did one on ones yeah and he did exactly what you're saying he bent the hoop at the size and speed that he is and everyone right away was like whoa that is way different and matter of fact Joel Bautonio is i was saying right next to you because i wasn't practicing i was in a jersey because i just said elbow surgery Joel Bautonio was like can you believe we're like the same like he's a human being he's like a superhero yeah no it's not normal yeah and um and the funniest thing we're watching tape after practice and uh it's like Jordan you're turning in your bed and it's like yeah well look at it he's going to go to the different guys like it's so that's always one of my favorites it's like we're gonna you're like expected to maintain perfect technique and come on this is super freak he's absent super freak when he was coming out i was talking to one of the coaches at a&m just to get back on him the tape was what it was he was the best player by far but i'm like he seems like in talking to him so mild mannered like doesn't like does he have a button that you push like does he ever get to that point and he goes he's playing basketball in high school and uh they had lost i don't know it was a state championship or a big game and he's like we come in and he goes right into the locker room and all of a sudden we just hear this noise and he goes he had grabbed the stalls by each side doing it with one side and just pulled the entire stalls down just snapped them snapped them off the wall both sides land on the ground when they came in there he's like yeah he has a switch yeah like pretty god nobody ever has to see that hopefully he's good at manipulating it doesn't just come out of nowhere but yeah that's all that's unbelievable there's a few guys that you watch and you're just like man that guy is so different what about ad what about Aaron Donald so Aaron luckily i do not have to block him one on one that often like usually outside rushing a guard but same thing the level of quickness i always think for defensive lineman the best defensive lineman out there are guys that have speed and power if you only have speed there's things you can do to kind of you know guardians that if you're if you're a finesse player you can go with a little bit wider hands on your punch you can do things that you can bait them into certain like areas right to like push them where he needs to go yeah if you only have power i'm going to sit down on that all day and sell out on that yeah but if you have both it's hard it's really hard to maintain balance and for me especially being an undersized guy i have i lean a little bit not a self power i have to and i think ad has all of it no he's got the unbelievable unbelievable twitch he's one of the few three techniques that can win consistently rushing outside of a guard like most really really good three technique pastors are either going through the guard or doing a quick move inside and get him early yeah him chris jones is only a handful of guys that are like winning i'm like outside handswipes on it as a three technique and somehow sneaking through the beat gap and you never price used to do that like when i was in baltimore chivere price was there and it was they have freaky if you can do that it opens up so much for you to do to the guard because then the guard's like man i got to move out there now and then that creates separation that agap gets a little bit bigger it's so i think ad and then just being relentless yeah like i it's not the most i want to ask you a scouting question because i feel like that's like the most underrated aspect of a pass rusher in inside or outside any defensive player if you play truly to the echo of the whistle yeah you're and you run to the ball you're going to be around it yeah and when you when you combine that with like unbelievable physical traits it's it's a pretty good recipe and um ad is he's just relentless he's like a bulldog down there that just is mad and angry you're like man i'm just we'll just play a football really mad at me i'm just trying to do my job does he talk? he'll stop coming over stop what do you have in the guard for i'm like you think i'm gonna leave you one at one you're the best player in the NFL i'm going to slide to you every time like uh what are you we're gonna not just go with you ruin the game Aaron yeah that's so that's so good that's amazing well so i want to ask you another scouting question that i'm hijacking this for selfish reasons i know i love this please it's better when it's a dialogue because because to me like what we'll have a debate this year as well you've got a premier edge guy and you've got a premier interior guy in terms of i'm an offensive line standpoint you're getting ready for the game you know who you're up against one week it's this guy one week it's the guy out there what's more difficult to navigate around so um i think a premier edge player forces the offense to structurally help it more like you're gonna do formations that put guys in front of them you're gonna chip more with either a tight end preferably or running back you're going to design plays that are gonna mess with them a little bit more yeah it's harder to do that at dtack well you can still do it but um i feel like dtackle it's um it's just you the best thing you can do is slide to them yeah there's not really a chip i mean some teams will try and chip like a running back through the big app but that's rare so if you have a really monstrous dtackle especially you i mean if you if you're building five-man fronts if you're blitzing a lot for me to slide to that every time like we're giving up yeah like that's very risky yeah we'd be over here all day yeah and like if we don't have like either a hot answer away from them or and if you move them around like if you play not if you're an over front all day every day and you can guarantee is going to be to the tight end you can do some things structurally yeah but if especially on third down you mix them up you do the overload fronts you blitz every once in a while that i have to be honest with where i'm putting the protection it's harder in my opinion and i probably shouldn't be saying that no no it's it's harder to uh structurally do something for a dtackle if you're doing all that so this is why i think and i know you know we both know how we really well but i think the the personnel departments and coaching staffs that don't communicate well and i would i would add players in there like i think there's more of a role i'm not saying you bring in players and like they're gonna pick who you're gonna see who are taking a draft but information like that when you're sitting there in the second round and you got equally graded edge rush or equally graded defensive tackle like that information knowledge from your players and from your coaches i feel like there's a lot of organizations that don't communicate that stuff but i will say i don't there's there's only at a given time maybe like two or three maybe four dtackles that are like that level disruption yeah there's more guys at dn because most of the best athletes on the side are playing dn yeah so in a given year there's more guys probably at that defense event the position that we're going to have that impact like i i give a ad this year Dexter Lawrence certainly yeah um when it's getting there yeah yeah when in Williams uh i think all of those guys like dojour like the guys i can think of right off the top man that have been like run stopping like pass rushing like these guys we have to make sure we know where they're at at all times and we're affecting everything because of that other guys that are really really good it's like okay we're gonna do some things but we're not gonna let it yeah consume us um whereas defense event i think every week you're kind of like i mean it's gotten to the point where every team has pretty much good edge rushers like they're all investing in that um there's great players coming out every year like it's it's so point now that you can't even have a bat but you used to be like you had to have a lockdown left half i know right tackle could just be like a a big run blocking right tackle and like now it's just not the case like you have to have two premier tackles of blocking the edge we used always say in draft and these this guy's got to play on the right side yeah you can't say that anymore you get a look at what's the question look at his russian over there and that's why like you know i'm so happy for like lane johnson that he started to get uh the credit that he's deserved for a long time uh you know it's for years all the credit went to the left side guys and they were the ones that made the pro bowl and it's still pretty much dominated left side but um you know mitchell schwarz some of these there's there's some right times that have been really really good that didn't get the accolades probably they deserve because they were right side guys even though they were doing the same thing against unbelievable i'm trying to judge yeah is there anybody this week that you're really excited to watch like i i don't know anything yeah no no yeah no there's there is man and this this week we're gonna have a lot of the quarterbacks are throwing so brights young's the best one in my opinion at alabama he's undersized he's not gonna work out here he's gonna wait till his pro day but all the other guys are throwing so and and people's rare yeah that normally everybody wits the pro day yeah so to see him and look everybody gets kind of carried away with this ball sale or this i don't care about that like they don't know these receivers there's no timing you're not looking at that i just want to see how they move around a little bit their footwork and then you can just see how the ball comes out of their hand you know and scouting we always say you need to go see quarterbacks through alive because you can watch them on tape but you don't know and i'm sure you've seen it even you know guys you you look across the field and if you haven't seen josh alan throw a football live like it's different man however good whatever it looks like on tape it's different when you see that in person right and it works the other way sometimes too so just getting to see the ball come out of their hand a little bit that's always fun there's there's a kid Anthony Richardson from florida that's he's gonna be six four two thirty five i don't know if he's gonna run but he's like a legit four four guy like he's crazy yeah he's got 80 yard runs 60 yard runs in the SEC is a quarterback and then he's got he's just got a huge arm so i'm kind of looking forward to seeing him yes when you say you have to like be there to see some of these guys throw because i will i watch michael big play my entire childhood and then the first time i ever did a practice with him and watched him through a ball and like the whip oh yeah like the end like the last like little spinny put on it dude this is insane like how fast and like it's like being shot out of something you know what i mean it's not just like somebody just throwing a ball it's different and it's hard to explain it i guess so i remember being there for those practices and you remember the the long touchdown to de shawn against washington right so i want to get your side of that story because i'll give you my it's slightly different so i'm scouting for the eagles i'm on the west coast i just got back from like a road trip some home me and my brother-in-law go to the nicest fanciest restaurant you've ever seen pf janks yeah simple plug so we're in there and we're in the bar yeah we're watching the game and it's like we've just settled in and i'm like we're you know watching the game and normally it's your it's you know i work for the team but you don't you know no cheering in the press box you kind of take that mentality right okay he uncorks that one first play the game yeah and i lost my mind and everybody in the pf changes looking around like dude this is like the biggest eagles fan of all time like no idea that i work with these guys but yeah yeah that was one of the that's still one of the best football throws i've ever seen yeah it was combining probably the two best players at that split like very few quarterbacks could throw a deep ball like my good yeah and i don't think to this day i mean i didn't play with Randy boss and some of the other guys but yeah watching de shawn jacks and trackable it was unbelievable it's it was like a out center field he played baseball it makes sense when you think about it he tracked it like willy mays or like some one of these all-time great outfielders would track a ball yeah and he would kick into like another gear like he would be running step or step with the dv mike would throw it up and he would just like a oh man gone yeah and yeah that play was like a like a like okay we got something here yeah i scared a lot of people in that restaurant that night i can promise you that so you talked about the combine kind of separates guys that are close yeah yeah how many guys is it actually like changing out of this week like is most of this i guess i'll ask this question first when does like a draft board start to be assembled when is it like actually tiered like that yeah already happened and then the combine this kind of happening after that started yeah so the the first board will go up in december and that's like you know there's books about this right you just like you want to anchor it you want it so that you don't have these wild swings so once you put them up on the board and you've kind of got them in your ranges it makes it more difficult than to have the wild swings like a lot of people call the spring like the fog of confusion like you know this we're not playing football anymore so let's not get too carried away from what we thought of these guys coming off the football season coming off the tape so you get the board up there but what happens a lot of times if you look at your board so say you've got your positions across this way then you've got the grades going down this way so you have your that's the image of the board well we might have say it's center right so we have center instead of stacking them on top of each other we might have two or three of them that we put next to each other and say okay we have the same grade we're not going to say this guy's better than that guy we're going to say these guys are all together they're traveling together now we're going to go to the all-star game we're going to go to the combine and we're going to interview and bring them in the facility if we still haven't figured it out and pro day everything else and then you have more guys watch it coaches will come into the process a little bit later yeah and so they're going to get to watch them and then you kind of okay now we can start separating those guys how does evaluating like the level of a player while also factoring the position and evaluate that position factor in right so like you might have an unbelievably dominant center we keep using center for some reason I love that I love that center is the center talk I love it I'm here for it but obviously quarterback is a the most important position so how do you evaluate like this guy's a game-changing level center or like the best we've seen in the last five years yeah versus like a top five every year quarterback yeah you're going to see it at a couple different positions this year because you know running backs the popular one yeah because people you know you find running backs anyway if you saw Pacheco in the Super Bowl the seventh round pick but then I'm telling you like there's some guys that are different there's some guys that are special if you think you have Adrian Peterson you know anybody wants to make fun if you've taken Adrian Peterson the first round let him make fun of me help play with Adrian yeah some real dudes yeah and like Texas to me they're running back this year B. John Robinson he's my fourth highest-graded player in the whole draft yeah I saw you had a mocked to potentially Philadelphia I talked about I talked about Philly and I said I said look how he's never gonna happen never gonna happen never ever gonna happen I've been there I know it yeah off the ball linebackers and running backs are not getting picked in the first round they don't believe in it especially high yeah and you guys have continued to invest in the trenches and it's paid off but I do think there's exceptions every now and then there's a difference making player he's a freak man and the thing is like on running backs to go back to that like don't don't waste their carries so if we acknowledge and we all can acknowledge their their shelf life's not real long sure position so if you say you have four five maybe six years of of really good play over running back don't you want all those carries the matter if you got a really good team then you know it's not like you're saying I'm taking the running back over a pass rusher you know quarterback if you don't have one but if you've got a lot of those pieces in place and you're a really good team and now you take a premier running back like everyone of his carries is gonna matter yeah you're a relevant team right now yeah and when you do have that guy he is an enormous difference maker like we've seen that either with Pollard we've seen all certainly when Zeke was in his prime look at the Jets this year like yeah that's my argument for people talking about the running back there's and look at the Jets with Breece Hall and look at them without Breece Hall exactly for some reason the running back he went from being the like the position right under quarterback because like this guy could be like a game changer guy so now it's like there's almost nobody picking them in the first round yeah and and and look the other side of the coin is you're finding him you know day three running backs every year right that are really good that are really good that are good players it's the deep running back class so do you think that that could hurt maybe I think it's gonna hurt him I think this the positional value and the fact that there's depth of the position it's one of those deals where if you talk to everybody in the league they'll all agree he's a great player and nobody can agree on when they think he's gonna go like what enables I guess maybe like like LaChomacoy to play ten plus years yeah at a high level like watching Adrian Peterson there's no way I would have thought he would have lasted 10 years yeah because he not only was he fast and violent physical violent you know like most of those guys are not lasting that long is that just kind of like a crapshoot in some ways like you get lucky yeah I would say Adrian Peterson's like in his own world like I mean I think probably when they look back on the game 20 years from now he's gonna be one of those guys where you know and these are big names are you talking about like Bo Jackson like those guys just look they're different they're not nobody's the next Adrian Peterson right okay that is one of one yeah so he was his own thing but like Shady was he was more quickness based and he did a lot of punishment and then he wasn't just a pure speed back because these guys are all gonna lose a step as they get older that was never he was like a four five mid four five guy coming out his strength was elusiveness like just like like he has in space like with the ball out here I know if you look back at the staff you know I know it's the most mind-blowing thing like breaks everything any football could have ever taught you about ball security yeah but from five points of pressure to two points of pressure and I think that that led to some of that elusiveness though like I mean when you're all on he was playing basketball yeah he was literally out there crossing guys over yeah in on a football field yeah 100 percent but I mean it is interesting when you think about the you know the value of the positions yeah so this year like ten of my top 50 players are edge rushers you know it's to what you're saying earlier there's a lot more edge rushers than there are interior defensive lineman yeah so this is interesting because you say well there's a lot of them maybe I can wait but it's such a premium position that they're gonna all go man they're gonna be a huge run I feel like it's easier to see guys that are put in one-on-one positions and are pretty scheme independent on whether they succeed so I'll give you like like a defensive end if a defensive end is consistently beating an offensive tackle yeah he's gotten great measurables mmm pretty easy to be like that guy's probably that translates yeah quarterback you know is the offensive line good are the does he have good receivers like is the coach putting him in good positions like I feel like with every level of variable that's added is it harder to evaluate that player on whether he's good or bad it's that makes sense it's the quarterbacks the hardest thing to get right I think in scouting and I've buddies in all different sports yeah evaluating quarterback because two things it's it's a dependent position as you mentioned you're dependent on all these other things yeah so what happens is you can over grade a guy sure because he's got an unbelievable offensive line he's thrown to three NFL whiteouts right exactly now I've graded him too high yeah and then you've got a Josh Allen who's at Wyoming who's got a couple bankers and farmers in front of him you know throw throwing throwing to guys that aren't ever gonna play you know beyond college yeah and he's playing against Oregon in Iowa and so maybe you know we don't give him credit for doing what he's doing with who he's playing with that's why it's so and then the other thing is so that's college yeah and now it matters where do you go in the NFL yeah guys that are perceived bus they go someplace else they could have been hundred percent right hundred percent you're like dude if this guy would have landed in Philadelphia San Francisco or Kansas City like I think this guy would have been a real player I think about that all the time with offensive linemen so I'm like man there's no way some of these guys aren't good players like you see him and you're like if I feel like if Jeff Stoutland yeah and I'm biased because I've been with Stout for a long time but like situation coaching system whether you're the right fit for it um players around you like all that goes into being a good player and having a successful career now if you're if you're there are scheme independent guys and those are harder to find later in the draft yeah like Fletcher Cox no matter where he went was gonna be pretty darn good I don't even know how you begin to evaluate a guy who is so dependent on other guys that's impossible man it's flipping a coin but like on the you know on the offensive line side of it when I was in Baltimore the worst thing like so you're all you're all sitting in the room we've all got our grades we've all gone on the record it's all been printed out in the book the owners in there you can see the grades and stuff and so a lot of times you know a guy gets picked say a guy you thought stunk and he's you have a free agent grade he gets picked in the third round you're like I don't get like I stinks like you can't play sure but if you if we had an offensive lineman that you had a free agent grade on and he went to the Colts we'd all be like oh crap Howard he must guys gonna start for eight years like like what are the gods that you can see let us see the scout the room just go like oh man yeah like Kyle the van Kyle the van like he's a he's a he's a free agent Jeff Shannon yeah Jeff like these guys all play forever I was talking to how about this so like he said Howard kind of changed the way he viewed off and was like Howard was kind of in some ways ahead of the like he just wanted athletes yeah and in Indy they had really good lines obviously in Philadelphia we had great lines yeah it changed the way I guess how he said that he evaluated off his alignment there was no difference he was Howard was the first one I talked to who said like we were in meetings or something and somebody made the the comment of like he's a right tackle only and he's like that's not how the league works anymore but he saw the first hand in Indianapolis with Mathis and yeah there's two of them there's two of them you gotta deal with yeah Daniel obviously you were a scout with the Eagles when I first got the Philadelphia you said you have the scouting report I do and um keep in mind it's a terrible miss but here's the story so how he one of the things how we would do and I'm sure he still does it and we still talk about players this day maybe a couple weeks before the draft and he said hey I want you to look at these four interior offensive linemen and under the under the impression these are day like later pick day three offensive linemen so it's four guys yeah so the first three guys are terrible okay and I and you and you're really good obviously you were 280 pounds I'm sure you've told the story you know maybe in sick going there so but I'm lit out in California I don't know who you are I just know I'm watching a 280 pound center but I'm like he's infinitely better than these other guys so I'll give you I'll give you the end of my report here it says uh all right overall there are other centers in this draft class that are ahead of him right now but he has a higher ceiling than all of them and the right scheme he'll start for us in two to three years holy cow so but I gave you but here's the thing so I honestly that's the best I think anybody gave me but I gave you I gave you everyone else was just like I wasn't even on their borgs I was too small so but it's a fifth round grade and I thought like I'm really putting myself out there like we'll take this guy in the fifth round he's a first ballot future hall of famer like he's not a fifth round pick hey uh well you were you were giving me more credit than anybody else was at the time so I appreciate no you still cuddly you stood out like a sore thumb I was I was ready for for Travis too I didn't have his report yeah but it was my first year in the media and I had him behind iFert and erts then he was number three yeah so I missed that over two yeah they ended up having good careers too especially Zach yeah what made you go to the media like why did you stop Scotty I get so true story I so I with Baltimore for four years and then Cleveland gives me a promotion to go be their national scout so I go to Cleveland first year we go 10 and 6 the next year we go 4 and 12 we all get fired like part of the business so I have 18 months left on my contract I have offset in my contract so wherever I go I'm gonna work for free for the next year sure so I got off a job of the Cardinals and I'm like trying to explain to my wife how this works like so I can stay home and we make this about the same or I can go be gone on the road for 150 days and then the tough sell and as I'm like talking like this makes no sense I'm like so let's take this year off sure let's I'm gonna I'm gonna start a Twitter page and like see what happens because it was like I had been curious in the media and stuff so I start that it blows up it takes off because this is early Twitter like no there's no scouts on there and like fantasy football people are asking you questions so this this blows up I get a broadcasting agent I start doing stuff with ESPN and I think okay I'm gonna go into in the media and then the lockout happens and people don't think about what not just with the players like that impacts networks like there's a hiring freeze not hiring but if you don't know there's gonna be any games right so now my my Randy Lerner sweet sweet Browns contracts getting ready to run out scholarships about to come do so then I was like a crap on this the media thing I haven't got a full-time job yet I'm just kind of dabbling with this stuff so then I went and talked to a couple teams with the Patriots and the Eagles and then up taking the job with the Eagles so I'm in Philly and in halfway through my second year the broadcasting agent who I have not talked to in 18 months I think that ship sailed yeah he's like hey ESPN and NFL Network want to hire you if you're interested in getting out of scouting and coming into broadcasting and I was like oh wow okay and then so I end up meeting with them kind of on the slide never told how we that like during the year and then I got offered a job by and a foot by both of them and if I network want to be to start right away I'm like I got to get through the draft I can't leave before the draft right so we do the draft the the the Fletcher draft so I think 12 yeah and then literally that night after the draft I went in the Howie's office and I was like hey man I've got this opportunity can I just want to give you a couple days I'm going to try and figure things out and then talk to my wife and we're like this is going to be better for us just as a family my kids are getting older I don't want to miss their games and the network was you know close to my house I didn't have to move to Connecticut so I ended up making that move that's crazy what um what does nobody know about scouting like what is what was was that the traveling was that the hardest part man it's brutal yeah it's so brutal like that that's a thing and I see like guys that I started with so my first year was in 03 so I've been coming over 20 of these combines and you see guys that and like dude these guys are still on the road like I don't know how they do it man like I just couldn't do it it's it's rigorous but um now I often get asked like what's the number one thing you've learned from scouting and I have a very serious answer to that and that is if you're ever on a road trip and you have to go to the bathroom if you go to Starbucks you're you're you're moron nobody does that you don't you don't want a gas station you're not that's subhuman like you can't do that yeah you need to find what is the best you find the hotel right and the lobby hotel bathroom is the most pristine bathroom on on the face of the earth that's you go in there the lady at the front desk hey mary she doesn't remember that this guy check in earlier I don't know you go back and use a facility you might even get a cookie on the way out the door yeah I am for sure stealing this advice everybody watch it is going down on because I've been in a gas station bathroom and you're on for a minute so you don't want to do that and Starbucks yeah I think their coffee shop bathrooms are probably quite heavily used we appreciate you coming in and talking to me congratulations to you man I to to look at not only what you and your brother have done as players which has been incredible but for you guys to be doing this it's it's awesome man thank you so happy for you we're having a blast we're uh gonna keep doing it for as long as people keep listening welcome to the new heights post interview interview brought to you by accelerator active energy drink Jason would you think of uh dino germia's combine analysis I mean we're sitting here talking about the combine not the draft the combine not the actual draft the combine not the draft we're talking about the combine I mean how silly is that we're talking about 40s vertical jumps not the draft broad jumps I mean what you watch the draft and you'll see everything he's got you know what I want to talk about though accelerator active energy drinks a lot of wonderful flavors you know beautiful cans this one right here is berry lemonade they're fitting as many fruits as they can in these suckers with a lot of plant-based thermogenics and natural caffeine it'll get you going for the combine or the draft the actual draft accelerator energy drinks give you energy you can find accelerator at target alberts and Safeway quick trip and hivy so that's our uh dana germia interview DJ so much for joining the show DJ it was awesome to have you on and reminisce gave me my scouting report how about that what you think I thought it was awesome I think he was spot on with you got a lot of questions for you DJ on how you thought I was the third best tight end on the board we had a few we had it was a good tight end class it was a good tight end class so I can't be mad at that there was even a few tight ends they got taken after me that had a pretty good career um who got taken after you Jordan Reed Jordan Reed out of Florida yeah he was a dog dude you want to talk about run some routes that boy can route some shit up I mean let's be honest dealing Jeremiah wasn't the only person that had Tyler Eifford and uh Zach Urtrate above you you're right and I have to live with that for the rest of my life you don't have to live with it it worked out great you end up getting drafted against the city playing with Andy Reed I wasn't even the first center drafted to the Philadelphia Eagles that year I got the fuck up right God Julian Vanderbilt he was a guard center that was taken in the fifth round I was drafted in the sixth round well can't keep a Kelsey boy down I'll tell you what um I would love to know what he thought Tyler and Zach did better than me well they probably interviewed better based on what you said you're gonna be good like Daniel wasn't in those interviews now we're just playing telephone see I knew it these these guys on TV are just going by word of mouth I knew it the Stanford and and Tyler went to Notre Dame those are probably too good in automatic yeah automatically yeah well they went to class so they know how to at least conduct themselves in a fucking room uh me over here just well it's a little too quiet in here you guys want to hear a joke Zach Urtrate's panned out let's just be on Zach Zack panned out 1000 we can say that Tyler Eifford was a pro bowler he just got banged up and had to deal some some I believe some ankle injuries that this has never got better for him and you know what I mean that's there's a lot of fortune that comes into being uh uh not even just a successful Titan but uh you know what I mean like a guy that can get to 10 years like there's this game is we've both been really lucky it's a game that puts a lot of strain a lot of stress on on your body man but that that's by all means not what I'm saying I'm not trying to take shots at either Urtrate or any of the other Titans Vance McDonald Gavin Escobar any of the guys that went uh before me or after me you know what I mean I'm just saying in my mind do you think they're better than me that's all that's all I just want to know I'm curious DJ do you think you were the number one Titan on Kansas City's board that year oh my gosh I want to know now we have to I'm gonna ask I'm gonna have to add John Dorsey I think we got to go to the head moon John would be a good one John Dorsey but I think Veets was a scout Veets was a scout Veets was a scout in Philly and then he went with Andy the Casey we got to ask the head man himself big red I mean I'd love to get him on the show hey coach Travis you want to come on our show what'd you say do you want to go get a burger Hey coach you know how we uh just how I just want you to let's your book you come on podcast say real fast say real fast this is one of those like like when you were calling gromc man I hope this goes to voicemail I hope it goes to voicemail DJ thank you very much for for sitting down with my big brother talking a little combine and uh the scouting world then and all the madness and indie that weekend we appreciate you big time and uh thank you for putting a putting me in my place and telling me I'm not shit I appreciate that it helps me kind of fuels the fire even more today 10 years later it's it's good to know that uh sometimes you I don't suck you just suck I don't think it's like everyone else I like that I like the feeling I think there's a lot that goes in to being a hydrat pick and there's a lot of guys that end up being great players that are hydrat picks and um it's just the part of the imperfect nature that is the NFL draft and it's certainly panned out for both of us and uh DJ uh you're the man brother it's good to move that wraps up the combine edition and new heights make sure you're subscribed on youtube to the new heights channel so you know when new episodes and content is being dropped listen and subscribe wherever gets your podcasts and make sure you check out the official merch including the new merch over at homage.com slash new heights you heard the man head over to homage.com gets you a stamp of the weak shirt or a no dumb questions shirt or any of the fun tees that we got on there uh it's always it's always cool man homage is uh Ohio based and I've been wearing the shirts for years man once again new heights is a jukes original show presented by wave sports and entertainment and brought to you by our friends at fireball baby that's cinnamon to lad I need some right now follow the show on all social media platforms at new heights show with 1s for fun clips throughout the week and um thanks to our production and crew we're uh we're living a wild and wacky off season already and uh you guys have been awesome finding ways to keep this train running baby um and shout out to all the 92 percenters baby we love you guys appreciate you guys tuning into the combine episode see you guys soon peace bye!