Bucky Brooks: Playing for Hall of Fame coaches, being the anti-hot taker, coaching with purpose

Hi, this is Leslie Frazier, and this is the NFL Players Second Acts Podcast. Thank you for tuning in, I'm Pena Tillman, and with me, as always, the Deacon, Roman Harper. Thank you. Welcome, man. What's up? I'm doing good, man. How are you doing today? I love the energy that you're bringing today. I'm out of energy. Yeah, a lot of energy. I'm actually confused. I won't say I guess the name yet, but he always calls me some kind of random name. And so now that he's just being normal, I appreciate it. So thank you for being normal out here in the L.A. Studios, the NFL Studios. This is a beautiful place. Yes, this. Whoever built this was on top of it. I've actually think that they have spent over a million dollars in chairs alone in this building. Chairs are nice. My back feels good. Lower lawn bars. There it is. All right. Before we get him all the way diving to it, here we go. So let's tell all of our listeners and the people that follow us on the podcast continue to do that. Also, tell a friend, a tell a friend, a tell a friend, give us a rating, a review, five stars that is. And wherever you pick up your podcast, whether it's Apple podcast or I Heart Radio app, wherever you do tune in, please continue to do that and bring somebody else with you. Peanut, who's our guest today? All right. Today's guest was drafted in the second round by the Buffalo Bills and the 94 draft played five seasons for five different teams as a DB, the best position on the field. No question. After playing at NFL, he was a scout for a number of teams. And now he has an obscene amount of jobs. And we'll get into that. But I want to introduce you all to Bucky Brooks. Welcome to the show. What's up, man? Oh, my God. Yeah. Life comes through a circle because I just remember in meeting rooms having to do reports and talk about you guys as a cross checker. You guys made your respective schools and coming out and trying to make your way into the league. And then here I am. You guys became great NFL players. And then we're kind of sharing a share of Mike. All right. What I wanted. Oh, go ahead. Can I know what my scout? Yeah. Because I was I was I read that green dot. I want to know. I want to know. So unfortunately, like for both of you guys, you weren't in my area. When you came out, your draft, your what year was it? I'm a 03. So I was still working with the Carolina. Now I was working with Seattle Seahawks and the guy who was in your area, John Peterson. Boy, he loves some peanut man. Oh, my God. All he talked about was he's got peanut. Don't be this. Don't be that big. He's long. You play going in place. I think that. And so your year Roman was win. 2005. Six. Yeah. Okay. So I got drafted in 06. Okay. So we had we were in Alabama. So we had mutual friends because you were with like Bill Johnson. Yeah. Bill Johnson is like one of my closest friends. Oh, yeah. So I knew like even before scouting you, I knew who you were because Bill and I go way, way, way back. Well, that's awesome. I didn't even know. Whatever. And so like it's funny because both of you guys have similar traits in terms of it was always high IQ known for the game behind the scenes. The study habits were good. It was all about like the preparation process or whatever. So you had prototypical size for the corner because at the time any corner that was over 510 and a half was considered a big corner back then in the league. Huge. Everyone talked about that as safety. It was about the game was changing where we were losing some of the things between free and strong. And could you do both? And could you and a quarter system play down? But could you also play high? And so having all those things. And then because of my experience going from in a wide receiver to a DB, I always pay those attention to DBs and like you find yourself when you're scouting, you're not supposed to look at all the techniques and tools. You're like, okay, could I play with these guys? Right. Because that always, to me, is the last question. Could I line up in the hotel where I want those guys to be in the hotel with me? And so I remember both of you guys very, very well about that. Look at that in the hotel. Well, here, I got a personal question is because, you know, I'm going to call you Bucky. Yeah, that's it. But how many people do you actually allow to call your real government name though? Oh, no one. Nobody. Nobody. Like, I know you don't know me. If you call me by my government name, I know you don't know. And like, right. If you're going to be up here, like, I'll tell you because my real name is William Eldridge Brooks Jr. So, but you guys know I'm from the South. And so when you're South, everyone has a nickname because my cousins and them, William Eldridge, with different last names. And so everybody had a nickname. Like, I've got cousins and all that. Or whatever. My dad is never going by his real name. He goes by Blake. I go by that. My son name is Trey because he's the third. But that's, that's what, that's, that's what it is. Oh, I'm married with it. Hey, I'm, I'm leading up my older brother. His name is duck. My dad and little Donald. My mom is her name, Tiny. Like, we just come from my house and nicknames. So, hey, I'll tell you on that. Like, I get it. I get it. Hey, I get the whole government thing, man. So, what I really want to know is, you are a very busy man. And what I mean by that is you, you have a couple of podcasts. You are an analyst for NFL Network. You host, move the sticks podcast. You do some stuff for Fox. How many jobs do you, oh, I even believe you're a coach. Oh, yeah. So, it's a high school coach one. Oh, we don't turn down anything. Okay. So, we don't turn it in. I like it though. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's playing, it's playing to the viewers. How many jobs you have? Um, like it, it varies. So, so, so the main hook is like, obviously NFL media is, is, is domain gig. Yeah. Got the radio on Fox. Uh, I contribute to some other platforms as a writer and those things. But like, that's kind of the way of the new world. Like, uh, when I originally entered the media world, um, got 2007, it was about trying to find one spot and you, you did it. But now you're seeing like, you have to be able to do more to kind of, kind of piece it together. And exclusivity is kind of a thing of the past. Yeah. When it comes to being able. So now you want to be able to contribute and do a bunch of different things. And look, as, as vast as yours imagination is, that's where your opportunities can be. And so, for me, because I wasn't a decorated player, I knew I had to have something that would create opportunities for me. So, uh, one as a scale, but two as a writer, like taking the writing path to kind of get into the media world, provided more opportunities. And so I always say the writing is the foundation, the TV and the podcast and radio. If you can write, you can do those other things because it all is kind of in a woven. Well, you always are a really good writer or did you always just read a lot? No, like you imagine. Okay. So like, imagine when we go to college, right? You know, when you go to college and like, they take, they give you like the, uh, exams in the middle of training camp, right? Like where the, at North Carolina, they did the placement exams in the middle of two days. So like, hey, this is your English, this is your dad. So I was in like bad English because I was like just trying to get through the beginner English. Yes. And so it was, it was funny that I came to write because it wasn't something that I would say I really focused on coming up. Right. But then what happens is I had a great appreciation for people who can express with the power of the pen. And then because of one of the most vulnerable things you do, like all of us, like as players, we kind of have these journals that we keep, right? Yeah. So imagine if I grabbed your journal from the middle of your newer in the same stays. Yeah. When you may be like struggling and camping, you're like, I don't know what is going. So to me, it's like the most personal, intimate thing that you can share is letting someone kind of see your words on the page. And so I just fell in love with that process and being able to think a little differently. And so it kind of worked out. That is awesome. I didn't think like the whole journey and using the power of the pen is amazing to hear like a former football player. Yeah. Talk about it and use those skills, especially now trying to knock it. Chapel Hill is a highly regarded institution as far as education is the best. Was you ever. Yes. Yes, it is. I hear about it all the time. He got. He got. So now for what they talk about. I don't talk about Alabama. I mean, if we want to talk about sports, it's not even close, but as far as education. Well, that's all you hear about is Chapel Hill. We talk about football. We talk about sports. Now you got to come see us. We got all of that stuff. You do. You know, football is a little behind. In fact, my senior year, we lost Alabama in the bowl game because that was Sherman Williams. Oh, yes. Sherman's eight. Yeah, Sherman's eight and all those guys. Yeah. We played him in the Gator ball. That's not a man throwback time. All right. Big. All these jobs, all these things. So when do you find time to sleep? Like, what is it to a week for lucky books? It all kind of works together. Or you don't sleep because I'm a guy. I can do it. We're like four or five. I can. We love it. Yeah. It all works together. So during this season, it's not as heavy for me when it comes to NFL Network and TV stuff. Like podcast three times a week. I may occasionally pop on a show like Total Access or something like that. But primarily it's just podcasting and then writing. I'll write a couple of times a week. That's when high school football is heavy and head coach of a school there. So we practice before school. So we practice at six a.m. We go from like six to seven, twenty. We own that NFL quick practice in and out. Yeah. Fast Friday. Well, we do fast Friday every day. Yeah. And we get in and out. And then I go about my day. Like the podcast would be whatever. And some days are heavy with stuff and that when it gets to the spring, high school football is done. But then that's when it's the draft and focusing on that path to the draft. Yeah. Like the main show that I'm on that comes on. And so it just kind of it fluctuates. But it's always busy with busy and a different. Are you studying college players throughout the season? Like how was that process go? And when are you starting to really dive into that? Because that's that's where the that's where your bread is. I mean, bread is better. Yeah. That's that's because that's the background. So the background is like I was a college scout. So I would go and look at college players and then we're rank them in draft them and evaluate and put them on the board for the draft and those things. For me, you always pay an attention to the college game. Like I do work. I do sideline work for the Jacksman Jaguars radio. And so when I'm on the road on a Saturday night, like you pop in TV, you see what's going on. But you also have your tape available. And then as it gets closer to the end of the season, when you begin to get the names, you begin to hear from your scouting buddies who are in the league. Hey, here are the names that you need to watch. And then you begin to like kind of really do a deep dive into this is these are the guys that we really need to know. And you you see because you guys do it in the media world. Like you kind of play the hits. Like you talk about the top guys every day. And then on TV, you'll get into an obscure. Hey, this is a late round little gym nugget. But most of the time we talk about the top guys. And so sometimes that now you can TV scout, but then you follow it up with real film work, film scouting. Okay. Now being as busy as you are and all the jobs that you have, I know when you are a coach, you have this responsibility to teach young men about life. The game itself, but you teach them about life, you're teaching about hard work, teamwork, how to grind, how to work together, how to overcome obstacles, failures and whatnot. What's really been the most gratifying job for you out of all the ones that we just mentioned? Well, all of them are gratifying in a different way. But I would say high school because you guys know, like there's always been a coach that somewhere along the line that touched you in a different way. For sure. Yeah. To change your path or he gave you the confidence that you may know, you can do this. Yep. And so for me, high school gives me the opportunity to do that. I coach at a public school up in northern part of L.A. And it's just great to like see all these dudes, right? Because like, I don't care what anyone says. Like, there's nothing that is like playing. There's no replicating, like running through the tunnel, feeling all that they gladiated mentality. The only thing to me that's close to that is coaching. And I can't do it anymore, but I can live through watching them do. So if we're just talking about, we're team to play a lot of, man to man, but we like, amen, look, if they get in this bunch, we're going to banjo it. And you go, he's going to throw it and it just don't blow the layup. And when they do it, you come out of your shoes just like you would as a player. If we're teammates and you get a pick six and we meet in the end zone. So to me, those things are great. And yeah, when they, when they do great things and you tell them like, that's great that you're doing all your stuff on the field. But now let's take care of this stuff off the field because how you do anything is how you do everything. And you give them those little things that coaches are poured into you. And then you see them take it. And then I think the thing and it happens with our kids and whatever. When you hear them say stuff that you said to them to their teammates. Like little guys that come in like, no, man, you got to take care of the details and all the other stuff. That's when you got. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that part to me is fun, like watching them grow. And I've been on the camp circuit for a long time, like working with Nike camps and all that and seeing Derwin James and Jamal Adams and all these guys come through and watching them when they're teenagers. Yeah. And now I see them as pros. Right, but they see you and they're like, Coach Bucky. So to me, it's just like paying it forward. And so the game is such a great game. That's one of the things. You can take all the things that you learn from playing in between the lines on the grass. And you give it to young people. And then they can take it and use it in a bunch of different ways. You know, I think it's so interesting. You say that because my dad was a high school coach and he coached me my first couple years in high school. And I used to ask my dad, why do you coach? Like these kids can't do this. You're yelling like you're up for all these hours. Like why? And it was the same example that you just gave. You're like, it's something to be said when you have a guy walking here as a freshman. Can't can barely tie shoes. Yeah. Put his pads on backwards. And you look up two or three years later and he's playing. Like I have shaped this kid into a player. Right. And I can trust him to like not mess it up. He's going to be able to tackle somebody. And you get excited for these things. And so that's the real joy of coaching high school football that I don't think anybody really understands. Until you do it. Yeah. So that to me, that was always, that was always the level I always want to be at. Right. I didn't have an aspiration to coach like I higher up because in high school, most high schools, unless you're at a private high school. I mean, you coach, you coach up who shows up. Sure. And so, like when they come through the door, you're like, ooh, we don't have a quarterback. You know what we're going to do? We're going to jump in this single wing thing and try and figure it out or whatever it is. Like, and so, ah, man, they, they really don't understand how to play zone. So you know what we're going to do? Hey, man, that's your man. That cat is your cat. Wherever he goes, you go. You go. You go. And so you, like to me, that's the beauty of high school ball. Like you just, you never know what it's going to look like. And then you try and figure out, all right, guys, that's what we got. We have one defensive in it. And, you know, so to me, that's, that's the beauty of high school. And that's why I have so much respect for high school. And also to, to test to that, your past year, you went, guys, went to the championship. Your first two completions all year long were in the championship game. You guys rushed for 54 hundred yards and 70 touchdowns and didn't throw the ball all year long. So the single wing, which nobody can defend, obviously. I think that's a benefit to you, though, in a testament that he, you're such like, you know what? We're going to do whatever works. It is. So, and you're not just stuck in your ways because you hadn't been coached for 35 years. No. So here's just funny. When I was working with the Carolina Panthers, you can look this up. It's, it's really funny. So we had to play against the Atlanta Falcons. Uh-huh. Starting quarterback Jake Lomas out. Chris Winky is the quarterback. I don't know if John Fox had a lot of confidence in Chris. So we lined up with the Angelo Williams and the Sean Foster and played the Wildcat the entire game. They threw six past, I think we threw six passes. And one, both the news went over. So then I was like, oh, well, you know what? Like sometimes you just, whatever you do, you do whatever you got to do. Yeah. And get out of it. But those are the things that you do. And in high school, like you have to like just take what you're given and kind of figure out a way to make it work. I love that. I do too. I didn't. I don't think we had that in Texas. We always had some, some good talent coming through them. Doors of Copper's Coals. Hey, this is Mike Wright from the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty podcast. You heard that right. The fantasy footballers have officially entered the dynasty space. Every week we bring you the same in-depth analysis and entertainment you've come to expect from the fantasy footballers only now from a dynasty perspective. Maybe you've been living in the dynasty fantasy football space for a while. Well, we're here to take your game to the next level. Maybe you love fantasy football and you've been feeling that itch to jump into the dynasty format. But it feels a little bit intimidating. No matter where you're coming from, the fantasy footballers Dynasty podcast has something for you and you're going to have a great time listening I promised. Join me and the rest of the crew every Wednesday for a new episode. Listen to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty podcast on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, got 10 minutes. Then you'll have time for the new podcast. 10 takes with Kyle Brent. That is exactly what I'm going to give you. 10 takes, 10 rants, 10 diet tribes, 10 opinions, all of the above. However, I'm going to give it to you in just 10 minutes. Is there anything worse that when you click on an interesting looking show or podcast in your little phone says 1 hour 36 minutes? Come on. Give it to me quick. I've given it you in 10 minutes. You can listen to this on your cigarette break on your commute. You can listen to it in the bathroom any time you want. 10 takes in 10 minutes. This whole show is going to be like we're dismantling a bomb. Like we're Jack Bauer. We have an actual clock. If I run out of time, that's on me. It's over. The thing will blow up in my face. Kyle Brent. 10 takes 10 minutes. It's on iHeart. It's on Apple Podcast. It's wherever you get your podcast. Like everybody always says, you know how to get a podcast at this point. 10 takes. Get that one. So tell me all right. So what's the transition like being from all right. You were in the scouting world. Now you're on the opposite side of it, covering it as an analyst. How have the relationships of the people that you worked with has that changed? It has been kind of remained the same. Or do they respect you the same? Like because you got to tell it honestly. You win it. You wouldn't keep the job that you had. You win. Well, you're honest. Well, like you guys know because I've seen both you guys on TV. You don't know like when you come off to sit and all of a sudden your phone is buzzing. Because when you put, let me know what you do. Like come on now. You know, I got to play TV. So like, so like I got to sell it and I got to sell it in a major way. But it's actually been great because what happens is your boys, your guys who are like, you're really like that you're down with. They'll call you. They'll give you the information. Yeah. That's very true. Here's what's going on on this night because they want you to look good. And they beam when they see you on TV because they're like, hey man, look at you. But they dig it. They actually are pride for when they see you do your thing because you know what the locker room is like. Like really at its core. We really care about it. Even though the pros are kind of weird because like we're all kind of independent country. When you own great teams, you really still have that same camaraderie for a little league and high school or whatever. Like, man, it's about your boy getting off. And we all, we do well as a group everyone gets off. So for me, the relationships have been the same. And what I always try to do is if I do have to criticize, I always try to make it where it's not. It's not personal. Right. Here's what we're talking about. We're talking about a decision that was made. We're talking about a player that was picked and those things. And you try to like have a critical eye like, hey, well, maybe they're thinking this and those things. And for me, it is worth because most of the guys, even if they don't agree with like my opinion, they can be like, okay, I get that. It's just when if you go sideways and I've never been like a hot take artist. Right. I always where you're trying to embellish it and blow it up. That's when you like, come on, man, what are we doing? But most of the time people can respect it. And they're like, oh, okay, I get that. Now, when you got out, you got right into the scouting. Now, why do you do scouting versus coaching? Well, I did, I just, it's funny because I bounced around so much as a player. Yeah. That I didn't want to kind of have that life as a coach because we saw. Yeah. We've all been coached by that man. They got different logos on every year. You're a coach. It's not about like if it's when you're going to get fired. Right. So imagine like, I mean, we all have kids like imagine you don't want to take your kids like every two years, bounce them around or whatever. So for me, I was like, all right, like the scouting thing at the time was supposed to be the more stable environment of that. So you still close to the game in a different way than coaching. Now, there's still nothing like coaching than playing or like the two things because you get, look, there's a scoreboard. Right. And you don't have the same scoreboard. Like you can talk about the draft, but you don't see it until like two, three years. And so the hard thing for me as a scout was you didn't have a direct impact on the game each Sunday. So you're watching the game. But it's not like a decision that you made as a coach, either wins or loses or as a player. How you played as a scout, you're sitting back and you're thinking about the long view. And so I missed that part of the competition part. Which is why when I had an opportunity and I moved over to media, I was like, well, I got a coach now. I got to get that. I got to scratch that itch and coach in high school did that. But like that part of it. But for me, I was still trying to squeeze out one more year. Yeah. I was trying to squeeze out like, man, if I could just get one. And so I called one of my boys, he was working with the Philadelphia Eagles. And he was like, yeah, no, I ain't got none for you to play. But there may be a job that opens up in Seattle. And I was prepping to get ready for an interview there called another one of my guys. And he had just got a gig in Seattle. And he's like, why don't you come up here and interview. I want to be an interview and never let you know. Okay. So that's that's how I played out. But the same thing, those those relationships. And as a player, because I'm sure you guys did it as players. You let people know what you would like that transition to be for you after football is done. Because I'm sure coaches or people around came. Hey, man, what do you want to do when football is over? Yeah. And so I let people know what my intentions were. And then it just so happened that I got up. So you got go ahead. No, no. I guess I'm like something just hit my brain. Yeah. I got a. I guess my boy should get out right or down. Another question that I have is. So Chris Ballet was my scout. Yeah. And I brag on Chris Ballet every time because we talk. We're good friends. And he was like, man, I'll fault Jerry Angelo tooth and nail to take you second round. I know you didn't have the name. But I was like, I'm telling you peanut or Charles Tillman. He's going to be the guy blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Has there been a player that you scouted in college that you were just like, nope. This is the guy. He can be X, Y and Z. He will be a great player. Is there a guy in your when you were scouting? I think we all have guys that we love. Sometimes you're not in a position to take the player that you want for that team. But there are certain guys that you like gravitate towards. So I remember watching Steve Smith who works with us here. But I remember watching him at Utah. And I remember watching him in the all-star game circuit that we, that guys do like after their senior years. Like, this dude was dominant. The whole of boys killing it. He's like, so you just like, man, this dude is like a dude. But he wasn't the prototypical size of it. It's like, look, he's five, nine. He may list five, ten. But he's five, nine. He hits it now. He hits it now. He hits it now. He's five, nine. Like he was five, nine. And he was a returner. And so sometimes that can be a horse. They'll just say that, hey, man, this dude is a returner. But like, he can be a wide out there. So watching him. And then when I left Seattle to go there and watch him grow from being a pro bowl kick returner as a rookie. To them being a guy that wanted to triple crown and become a multiple time pro bowl player. And while I receiver, those are the things that you like. Okay, this is cool. Like, this is great to watch him progress. No one could predict that he would be what he became a Hall of Fame caliber. Why don't? But to see him go from that. And to be able to like, yeah, I thought he could do some of that. I didn't think he could do all of that. That stuff is kind of cool. But that peanut. Now I literally wrote just about that same question down that you just asked him. I want to know from the other side was like early on in your scouting career. Did you ever like, were you almost overconfident in some things knowing that you had just come from playing? Were you overconfident with like, man, I know this. And all of a sudden I was wrong. And I was like, man, maybe I need to go back to the draw board on some of my. Yeah, process. So it's funny because what happens is as a player. And you will see this like as you're around teams and those things. I know you guys are around teams. Sometimes they're not a lot of former players in the scouting department. And there can be a different rub because sometimes as players, we may fall into these stereotypes. Right. Players are coddled. Players. I don't know if they can do the ground on them to get on it. This and that. Even though I always feel like we're being a player. Like, that gives me a leg up because I kind of know what that thing is. And I feel like I would give prospects more grace just because I knew how hard the game is. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. No. Yeah. Oh, man. Like that's a hard play coach. Like, that's hard. You acting like someone down. Yeah. That's a hard play. They coming down to scream. My man ain't got to reroute on number one. I'm on the hash to a two way go. They coming right at me. What am I doing? They fitted in the honey hole. And you're mad at me because I can't get over there like being able to understand that part of it. Yeah. And I think what happens is because you come off the field, you may feel like you know it. And you should always feel good about it. But you also have to put the study behind that stuff. But I think the advantage that you have, we all play with great players. Right. So for instance, I think in my past, I'm now up to like maybe 17 Hall of Fame teammates. Right. So I, when I look at players, I begin to compare them to the players that I play with. So for instance, I play with Bruce Smith, Derek Thomas, Reggie White. So when I'm evaluating past rushers and people are talking about, hey man, this guy's not like, hey man. Oh, God. These three dudes here like the top of the list. Yeah. And it comes to sack. So I'm looking at Derek Thomas' get off compared to his. I'm thinking about Reggie White's ability to turn a speed into power. I'm looking at Bruce Smith, his savvy and his overall dominance. Do I feel that? You know, do I see that in the players? And so I played with Charles Wilson when he was a rookie in Oakland. And so you begin to take all those things, all your experiences. And you begin to compare and contrast what the grates look like compared to somebody that you're evaluating. So I think to me, it gave me a leg up. So what have you learned in the game as far as, you know, you talk about all these, all these players that you play with, some good coaches that you played for. What's been one of the best lessons that you've learned with all of the players and coaches? So I think from every coach that you play with, you learn different things. So every coach that I play with is either in the Hall of Fame or a Super Bowl champion. And the one exception is Marty Shotnam who won 200 games. So Marble leaves in the Hall of Fame. And so the number one will be or should be Mike Oliver Tom, Tom Kaufflin, John Groot. And so all these guys learn great things. And so what I learned is they all went about their different, their business in different ways. But they all kind of came back to the same thing. Man, that's all about the preparation. And it's about ultimately, do you perform in the lights come on? Like we can talk about all of it, but at the end of the day, you got to prepare. But when the lights come on, you got to show up. And that's just what it is. And it's the same thing when it comes to like doing TV, when it's writing, or whatever. How much you pour into the preparation process will give you the best opportunity to perform at a high level. And so it only gives you opportunity. Yeah, you still got it. You still got to make the play. You still got to go out there and do it. You still got to make the play. And so to me, that's what it is. And that's what you're trying to young people. Hey, man, do all the work and do it. But I always feel like the one thing if I could go back as a player, I might have been scared to pull the trick. And so what I would always encourage you, man, take the shot. You know what I'm saying? Like, there are times where, yeah. And I go back. And I always say this, like, we were playing in San Francisco 49ers in a preseason game. But I studied the tape. And every time Jerry Rice lined up at the top of the numbers when the ball was there, it was 100% of speed out. And so we get, then I'm like, man, there's the tail. You see the balls right there. It's like, oh, it's like, it's just, it's like. But then you're like, do I, do I go? It's Jerry Rice. All right, do I go? So then you don't go. But do you like that's the play? But then I played with guys, because in college, Dre Black came right behind me. Yeah. Dre jumped everything. He's going. Like, if he looks over there, he's going. And I was like, I was like, I was like, what? I'm going. And so safety help. It doesn't matter. But that was Dre. And so that is the thing. And so I tell people, but if you do all that and you trust it, you go with it. And as a coach, I always said, I want to give you the freedom to do it. So I'm not going to jump you. Like, that's why we talk about having a mentor and having that right coach. Because the right coach will tell you. Regents. Yeah. I got you. Yeah. Trust your keys. And then because you're safe in your corner, we know the inner game is that I'm going to look at. Hey. I he gone. I'm gone. So. Hey. But see, but that's, but that's the thing we're in the fraternity. You know that. Yes. That's how we play. When someone gets a play is because like, hey, man, I'm, hey, cover me. I'm going. That's. Give me an extra. That's the communication all the time. I feel like you did that with Jane or are, are of the whole time. 15 because I was with Jane. No, everything all the time. We changed our whole defense. We were from the straight quarters to now. We're allowing. Now with the corners allowed to jump anything to the flat. I think we're over the top all the time. They were like, so. We're going to repalms. Yeah. Without even me. We're doing palms. The whole back half of the season. Because Jane knows just like. He going. And so for those. All right. Listen, the palm technique is when the two goes out in the corner just jumps. Yeah. So I have to anything out to the flat by the second receiver on that side. The corner is going to jump it. And now the safety has to go over the top. So I'm covering number two until it goes out. Now I'm trying to bust over. Yeah. Before there's a big honey hole. So yes, that was it. All right. Out of all those coaches though, you mentioned them. Hall of Fame potential for all of them. If not, if not now, they will be. Which one's the hardest to play for? Okay. Because I apologize to him after I play for him. So Tom Coughlin. Yeah. So Tom Coughlin. You apologize. I apologize. Because Tom was tough. He was tough. So when I go to Jacksonville. So you got to understand I go from playing with the Green Bay Packers. We had come off of a Super Bowl appearance and they were going right back. So now I go to Jacksonville who's like in their second year as an expansion franchise. In Green Bay, like they're winning. He comes from San Francisco. So everything, not only his first class, but it's like, it's like vet central. Meaning like, now I'm a young player, but it's a, a, a, a, we ain't putting them past them. We're going slow down. We're going slow down. Oh, we ain't dressing up going on the road. Like, hey, yes. We just going into play. Do I think Jacksonville, you walk in the door. Hey, man. It's concentration line. We go on the thing. You got to button everything up. You know, when I mean button up, when you go walk out the door, to go to the practice field, when you're on the practice field, your helmet had to be buttoned up at all times. Your socks had to be up. Everybody had to have on the same shorts. We're doing this. He's looking. If you got those little ankle socks, he's like, those aren't issued. Fine. You go on the, you go on. Oh, you go on the road. When we, so we in the hotel. So we in the hotel, like, look, okay, we'll be suited and booted on the plane. I can relax. We got sweat. Oh, if you're out the hotel room, you got to have on khakis and hard bottom shoes and a college shirt. The slappies. So I'm sitting there. I'm like, what are we doing? And what year is this for you? This is year three or four. Okay. But I'm sitting there like, what are we doing? And when I first got it, we getting drummed. I'm like, we don't even win it. This is not even, you quit the win. So we do, we go to the playoffs and whatever. So years later, I finished and I started coaching high school. And so the high school I went to, oh, these dudes would come out for workouts. And they get on different colors. You got on grip. The school comes blue and gold. You got on grip. You got on red. Then look like a team. No. Don't look like a team. So then I see Kaufflyn at the combine. I said coach, I got it now. I get why you did all that. He's driving me crazy. But he was the one that was the hardest to play for because he had all these rules. And I was like, these rules make sense. Yeah. But he was a great coach and he figured it out for real when he got to New York because all those things, you got people there that swear by him. They swear by him in the tough love and all that other stuff. For me, I was a little immature. I couldn't figure it all the way out. And till later, I had a greater appreciation for a dot the eyes across the T's. This is how we do all this stuff standing across the board. Yeah. I had a friend of mine that actually had him at Boston College when he was in college. He was like, dude, the dude was tough. Like, he got to be there five minutes early. Like, we do that already. He was like, you know, my family had to accident. He was like, coach, I don't know if God might be a little bit late. He was like, late. Like, won't be here. He's like, no excuses. And so it just kind of, some people don't ever change. You know, and he's actually thankful for him now. Yeah. Like, some of the things is like, is that so the funny thing is you laugh. You had a high school day. No. Five minutes or eight. Yeah. Yeah. So the meal time, you ran 11, it really started 10, 55. So my thing was always that coach. If you want to me to start at 65, just tell me 65. That's it. Don't tell me seven o'clock. But you want me at 65? Like, just tell me the time. And I get the same complaints from the kids. I'm like, and now we start at 55. Like, you know what it is? Yeah. And it's successful. You know, media. You killing it right now. The scouting. His team's killing it, too. When the championship lasts killing it with the offense. Mount Rushmore. Who would you put on that personal Mount Rushmore of mentors, coaches, great teammates. The Lord, mom, dad. I mean, it's totally, it's totally Mount Rushmore. Yeah. So first personal Mount Rushmore would be my dad. Yeah. My dad is a retired firefighter. But he also was a coach. He coached Dexter Lawrence in high school. He was a D-line coach. They won the 45 games in a row after Dexter. But they want to stay title. So I get him on. He's on my head every day about coaching. What are you doing? How are you doing? He goes. He goes in your blood. Yeah. So he goes there. Mac Brown, my college coach, goes there. Because from coach Brown, I learned the art of how you treat people. Like, if you want people to play at a first class level, you got to treat them. He's like first class. Hands off the Mac Brown. Amazing human being. I mean, this dude could sell water in the field of action. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable communicative. Yeah. Seeing that if he met you, he would meet you five years down from there. He would know what that first conversation was. Yeah. He's that good. And it's a gift that he has. So he was always that. I would say from a player, the guy who helped me the most. James Hasty was an all pro corner candidate when I was there. Yeah. So when I got there, I'm still learning how to play corner. And what he did for me was he held me to a higher standard than I had ever been held to by a player. Because in Kansas City, under Martin Shownhammer, it was a player's driven team. And so if you two guys in the second year, if I'm the dime and I come in there and y'all don't really like how I get down, y'all would send me out and the coaches would respond. So that's how that was. So Hasty said, no, here's what you're going to. You can come here on Tuesday at eight o'clock. I'm going to come in at nine o'clock. By nine o'clock, you can have a report written on the number one receiver that we're playing. But what he did is he was teaching me how to prep and get ready to play. And so James Hasty would be there. And then I would say like the last guy like in terms of like a personal mentor would be Charles Davis. So Charles Davis for me and broadcasting has been everything. And he's so good. In terms of learning how to prepare, learning how to do basic mechanics of like TVA. Hey, when you look at the camera, when don't you look at the camera, when you engage and all that. Call him about anything when it comes to the business. Yeah. Because he is like water. Oh, he can do anything. He can call golf. He can call baseball and golf football. Like he's your lifeline. If you're on a trivia show and you need something who knows random facts, CD has always been that guy. Well, you know he's good. He was on that. That's my guy. Yeah. So he's my guy. And we appreciate you coming down. We got like a thousand more questions. But you got 72 jobs and we know you busy man. Hey, I just got to go to work. Mine. Gotta go to work. Mine. You know, I appreciate you. I appreciate you. It's been great. Thanks, man. Well, appreciate it, man. Thank you so much, man. All of our followers and listeners out there, man, continue to do that, man. We'll continue to bring you great guests. Like my man, lucky books right here. And thank you so much. Give us a rating, a review. Wherever you pick up your podcast at where this Apple podcast or I heart radio, please give us a listen. Tell a friend to tell a friend to tell a friend. Peanuts, tell them what we doing, baby. We outta here. Hey, I'm Peanuts. That's Rome. That's Bucky. This is the NFL Player Second Acts podcast from the L.A. Studios and we out.