How to Build a Brand Ambassador Program with Nick Lynch

Hello! This episode is sponsored by my friends at Kila, a comprehensive fundraising and donor management software that will help you expand your reach, increase your fundraising revenue, and foster a dedicated community of supporters. Now, several of my clients are currently using Kila and they continue to be impressed with how easy it is to use, how affordable it is, and most importantly, the results that they see and the impact they're able to create. Now, Kila is hosting a free webinar led by me on June 6th, How to Drive Donations and Get Engagement Using Social Media. It's totally free and you can get all the details and sign up at www.jcsocialmarketing.com backslashkila. That's jcsocialmarketing.com slash kila. See you there. Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host Julia Campbell and I'm going to sit down with non-profit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience, and effectively build your movement. If you're a non-profit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people, and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. Hi everyone. Welcome back to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host Julia Campbell and I'm so thrilled that you've decided to join me again wherever you're listening from. Today is an extra juicy episode. This is something that is often a topic of conversation, something my clients and students ask me about very frequently how to build a brand ambassador program, how to work with influencers, and what small nonprofits can do to build these kinds of programs and relationships. So my guest today is Nick Lynch and in an ever-changing and evolving digital world, I do love this bio, by the way. I like the way the bio is written because I'm a writer and actually it's very interesting because normally bio's are very boring, but this one is not, I promise. So listen up. In an ever-changing and evolving digital world, Nick Lynch has spent his professional career building solutions for brands to better identify and target their audiences online. Nick is more than a businessman from personal experience as a former Make-A-Wish recipient who survived cancer at an early age. Nick is passionate about nonprofit organizations. The COVID-19 pandemic suddenly forced many nonprofits into the digital space, which I know, it triggered Nick to think strategically about solving the challenges of creating opportunities to thrive without in-person events. And this prompted him into creating kaleidoscope.io and all-in-one social media measurement and data analytics platform to help nonprofits survive throughout the pandemic and beyond. Sorry about that. Nick, welcome. Thank you. I'm getting so excited to be here. Well, we have to hear about your wish. I work with a couple of Make-A-Wish chapters. So as a former Make-A-Wish recipient, what was your wish? My wish was to go to Disneyland and it was awesome. So I mean, they sent me, they picked me up in a limo. I still remember, you know, this was the 80s. So I remember like making a car, like a phone call from the car in the limo. And I remember the whole entire wish and I credit Make-A-Wish and the power of what a wish does in really shaping who I am and not using my sort of experience with cancer as a negative but more as a positive. And so I loved it. Wow. So how did you get started in this work in your career and what you do now? For about, you know, about seven years ago is when I actually reached out to the L.A. chapter of Make-A-Wish and really wanted to be more involved and sort of just use my story, my experience in whatever capacity that Make-A-Wish could. One of the biggest misconceptions, if not the biggest misconception of Make-A-Wish is that children that are granted wishes are terminal. And obviously that's not the case. And a majority of the cases, it's not. And so that was sort of just kind of my first four. I have always donated. I've always sort of done whatever I could. But that was really my first four in like real deep work and doing whatever I could do possible in personal and professional career in service of Make-A-Wish greater Los Angeles. And if you fast forward really to the beginning of COVID, that's really when my deep work really started and really trying to figure out how to build the bridges of my professional and my personal life, you know, how to actually help organizations think about the future, not only just sort of like aspirationally, but like tactfully, like how do we actually do it and what is the work that needs to be done and how do we connect the dots and what's really required. I mean, I think before we even did anything with kaleidoscope, I think I spoke with like 300 or so nonprofit professionals, brand professionals, just people that could potentially benefit from what we're doing. And so it's been fantastic. And I do want to pause though and tell you that I am a huge fan and the first person that anybody ever told me to follow in this face was you. So this is sort of like a kind of fan going right now because I'm super excited about being on here. That's amazing who told you to follow me. Everybody I talk to, honestly, like everybody in the early stages of on the non-profit side and asking about like who's what are the voices saying and who are they in marketing when it comes to nonprofits and they said, Julie Campbell, Julie Campbell, you got to check you looking at what else. So I'm excited. Thank you. Now I just read, you worked at MySpace. I had a MySpace account. Are you friends with Tom? That's what we need to know. I was. No, I mean, those were the early days, right? So I mean really learning how social media works and the benefits and I guess the drawbacks, but that was really where I cut my teeth and really figuring out how this thing called social media was actually going to grow and what data it could be used. And so that's kind of where a lot of my experience comes from, obviously over time, but built on it. Exactly. So it looks like from what I know about kaleidoscope, it is that social media measurement and data analytics platform. And what I think is so interesting about that is that not a lot of nonprofits do the work to measure and analyze the return on investment or even anything. The return on posting is not even necessarily return on paid ads, but it's just the return on the time and the effort spent. So tell me about how you helped nonprofits, why you decided, you worked at MySpace, actually I'd love to hear about that, but how this transition happened where you saw this pain point, how did that come to fruition and you realized nonprofits really need this help? Because I know that they do. The first thing I thought of at the beginning of the pandemic in 2020 is when all of the in-person events started to sort of disappear, like how can I use my understanding of brands who want to spend and are spending billions of dollars a year in cause marketing and nonprofit partnerships. I mean, there's billions of dollars in this space and I knew that they would spend more and there would be more dollars in this space if they could measure and understand, get a report, get some analytics on what is the return, not necessarily, you know, I give $25 and I get my logo on a newsletter and a t-shirt, but like what is the actual impact to my brand when I co-market with a make a wish or with a green piece, right? Or whatever that whatever the case may be. And so I knew that if I could bring analytics on the return on investment side as well as measure the return on impact for a nonprofit, I knew that I could get more dollars circulated. And I also knew that influencer marketing, I mean, it's now sort of everywhere, but you know, three years ago, it was still somewhat emerging, but I knew that influencers in the creator space were really interested and wanted to leverage their platform for good. But they're also admittedly lazy. They like to focus on one thing, which is creating content. So I knew that if I could bring in, if I could match brands and nonprofits and influencers where there's vision and value alignment, measure the return on investment for the brand return on impact for the nonprofit, that I could bring more dollars in and I could scale. And so we did a lot of early testing on that and it worked. And so we continued to do small and small tests. And over time, we built sort of this process, this product, and a practice really for how do we match the right people together, all the right stakeholders, the three stakeholders, how do we put campaigns together to target a specific goal? And that's not always fundraising that could be awareness that could be engagement could be fundraising also. And then how do we measure it and make sure that we understand this brand partner delivered X amount of impact for our nonprofit and the brand got X amount of brand engagement and interaction and essentially lift by collaborating with a nonprofit and an influencer. And so that's literally how we started and what we built. It's funny because fast forward over the last three years, we've become so much more than just a measurement platform and an influencer marketing company. I mean, we really sit on sort of the intersection of media, marketing, and measurement for all things, social impact, people kind of jokingly call us the Deloitte of social good, because we really are like the bridge, that the strategic, the tactical bridge between this emerging media, which is influencer marketing or the creator economy, brands who are looking to try to figure out how to get in this space, not only from the creator standpoint, but also the cost space, and then obviously bringing nonprofits on together so that all of the impact can scale. That's definitely needed. I think that's something that's been missing from the space. So that's really interesting. But today's topic is building a brand ambassador program. I think there's a lot of myths and misconceptions out there around what that means. So can you tell us, you know, what is a brand ambassador? Sure. So typically what a brand ambassador has been or has been used for is kind of framed in sort of the corporate or corporate world, right, where maybe you're a shoe company or a makeup company, or right, you're working with LeBron James, right? And they're the ones sort of you're using their celebrity or, you know, their background in a particular space as, you know, as a professional or as an expert, and then essentially tying your brand to that person. So you're kind of piggybacking off of their excellence and celebrity and all those types of things. That's traditionally what it has been. What we endeavor to do and what we've started to really help scale is bring that same type of mentality to the nonprofit space and build value and vision alignment relationships between, you know, cosbased organizations and what would be called influences or creators or people in the creator economy. And so the one thing that I think is super important in understanding all of this, like number one, is everybody is technically an influencer. It does not necessarily it does not matter if you have 100 people following you or 100 million people, you have some level of influence to some people. I may have 100 people on social media. They're mostly maybe my friends, maybe some people who know who I am. They know I'm kind of a nerd and I like things like the avatar and in SARS wars and those types of things. And maybe I went and saw the new avatar and I said, guys, don't go. It's terrible. That actually might influence people to not go. Now, I loved it and I'm telling everybody to go. But that's an example of I have influence over my followers, right? They would listen to me and that same goes on the nonprofit side. Your board members are influencers on LinkedIn, right? Your community are influencers on their social media platforms. It does not need to be a huge person to be a brand ambassador. So the answer to your question directly for the nonprofit space, it's really about finding advocates and partners who are value and vision aligned in your mission and who can work with you to essentially communicate variation initiatives and various talking points in a sort of coordinated way around particular events or just general comments. And what are some of the benefits of having a brand ambassador program even just on a small scale? Sure. There's two core benefits that I believe like if we could kind of take all of a step back and like look at the basics of what we do from a mission perspective is story tell and community bill. Like that's really the two things that you need to do. You are literally speaking my language. Those are my two books are about storytelling. That's why I was fanially. I'm telling you. So but that's if you do those two things, well all the other tactical things, I mean obviously it's a lot harder in practice but generally speaking the tactical things sort of fall into place once you get really good at storytelling and once you get really good at community building. So if you apply that to ambassador programs, influencer marketing or influencer partnerships, we have to be really good at understanding how to tell stories in a social media world. We can't tell stories via mail anymore. We can't tell stories sort of via email anymore. Those things can work but ultimately we need to figure out how to evolve our storytelling and use the mediums available to tell our stories. So that's number one. That's why ambassador programs are great, right? Multi-channel, right? And number two, I mean you can't build community by ourselves, right? And we rely on our volunteers, we rely on our board members. So this is sort of a really great sort of amazing sort of domino effect way of building community. You can work with partners who have 20 followers or 200 followers and you can use their communities to build onto your communities. And so having two, three, five, seven, ten sort of ambassadors or partners on the influencer space who are really helping you build community, telling your story in the new mediums and then building community through their audience. It's a really great and efficient way to continue to scale your community without having to try to go one by one or two by two. I mean it's really like 10 by 100 by 100 by 1000 when you start stacking on these ambassadors. So those are like the, I love those two benefits and like those are the two core ones I always focus on. Okay, so we're sold on this. I think a lot of organizations do think this is a great idea. A lot of nonprofits, they think like you said it's just you've got to have Khloe Kardashian or LeBron James to do a brand ambassador program. Although I will say if you look at a person like Khloe Kardashian on Instagram, how many million followers they have but they don't really get a lot of comments or genuine comments. So I think having these smaller targeted really influential but in a very condensed way, these kind of, I don't know if they're called nano influencers, micro influencers anymore, but those kinds of people in your network, I think are really, that's really effective and that's the best way for small nonprofits to go. But how do we get started? I always say the first thing is just figure out like what do you want to achieve? And there's always three buckets, right? There's three buckets of goals. You either want to generate reach and awareness like you want to say, hey, like we exist and this is who we are, right? That's probably one number one goal. Number two is people know who we exist, but we really got to get people to our website. Maybe we have a pamphlet that needs to be downloaded or we've just released sort of a study that we want to distribute or we want some type of traction around engagement. Maybe we want more followers on social media, whatever the case may be, but engagement's like the second bucket. And then the third bucket obviously is like some very particular call to action. We want somebody to sign a petition. We want somebody to donate money to us. We want somebody to whatever the call to action is, right? Sign up for our newsletter or come to our gallery, whatever it is, there's sort of that action piece. So those are like the three buckets that we look at. So it's really like, what is our goals? And then based on what our goals are, then we can kind of figure out, okay, which type of influencers and which type of platforms would we really want to go after? You don't have to be everywhere all the time. So sort of focus on one platform where your audience is really there and the audience that is on that platform will help you achieve sort of that particular goal. And then you start aligning influencers to that. So to your point, you know, if you're trying to get awareness, then maybe we should try to find maybe some slightly larger influencers that have reached, maybe they don't have a ton of comments or engagement, but you're going to get some some impressions. You're going to get some people to see you. And that's a really good way to at least start a conversation, right? But if you want people to maybe do some engagement, really come to your website, maybe donate some money, maybe let's try to find some of these smaller guys who have really great engagement, their audience is there to follow them. They trust that particular person. And so that if there's value in vision alignment and that particular influencer has talked about the circular economy and you're a, you know, ocean conservancy or even a thrift store, right? Like those are the types of people that you would want to align with and have you share your mission. They don't need to be big, but they need to be have an active and engaged following that really follows them and can really help resonate your audience or your message to their audience. So what are some pitfalls? Like what are some traps I think that nonprofits fall into when they're trying to build these kind of programs? Yeah, well, I think, I mean, with anything nonprofit, it's always the pitfall is like thinking that you can't do it or it costs too much. And so you don't start, right? I think that honestly is like the number not starting is like the number one. And look, you believe in your mission. This is this is who you are. There are other people that you haven't talked to that feel probably the same way and many of them are most likely influencers. So I think understanding what you want to achieve, what your goals are, and what the messaging you want. If you can understand those and really write those down and find several influencers that that you feel would align with that and you can communicate that clearly, most likely they'll donate a post. You don't have to have a budget. You just sort of sort of talk to them and let them know this is exactly what we need. This is exactly who we are. This is why we like you and we'd love to figure out a way to partner. It doesn't like literally. We've done tons of campaigns that were free. No money. We've just asked them to post for us. Or maybe we have some apparel, some merchandise and we'll barter. Can we send you a shirt and can you shout out our walk next week or next month? Something like that, right? So there are a lot of things you can do as long as your goals are clear, as long as your message is clear and what the expectation is. Nine times out of ten, you can probably get somebody to do something for free, right? So I think that's the pitfalls. It's like you don't need money. Let's just start. Figure out what you want to achieve and then start reaching out and having a conversation. So where do you find these people? Yeah. So I mean, all the platforms are really starting to kind of fall in line and interestingly enough sort of along a demographic line. I mean, I think if you have historically an older audience and you're trying to reach maybe 45 plus, Facebook continues to be a really great platform to find people. 18 to 35, there's people on Instagram and obviously anybody younger is mostly on TikTok. But I'm seeing a lot of really interesting pickup. You can, YouTube is great, Twitch is fantastic, right? There's so much amazing statistics over the last few years of these amazing streamers who've generated millions of dollars of fundraising for nonprofits and their charity streams. So I think that all of those platforms are great. Like I said, understand what your goals are, pick one platform and one particular audience that you want to target on that platform and then align your influencer there. And then once you get really good at that one platform, then you can maybe start thinking about other ones. But I think it's, I think the other pitfalls thinking that you have to be everywhere all the time, you just have to be really good on one channel. There's millions of people on all these platforms. So just be really good on one channel and then you can go from there. I actually have an example and I want to ask you about examples of, you know, great ambassador programs. But an organization, I'm a monthly donor to, they're called Amira, my audience, is probably sick of me talking about them. AMIRAH Incorporated, one of my just favorite loves, I'm passionate about them. They approached their monthly donors specifically to ask them if we would share on our stories during what was it sex trafficking awareness month. And they sent us the actual graphics, they sent us the caption, they sent us everything that we would need. And all they did was ask us if we did so to tag them. So I thought that was a very simple way to start because then they could see, first of all, who did it? You know, like who actually responded to this? And then they could maybe, you know, then they've cultivated me further because I did do it. So cultivating that further. But I think sending, just seeing, you know, just like sending something out there, seeing if people are going to respond, like seeing what your email list is doing, or maybe a targeted segment of your email list, and just seeing what's going to resonate with them. So that's kind of my favorite example. But do you have any examples of brand ambassador programs you can share? Yeah, I have tons. But I love that particular use case. I think it's brilliant, so simple. And the other thing I always sort of talk about is the three T's, right? Time, talent, treasure, like our partners, our constituents, our donors, our board members. Everybody has those three T's. Some of them are flush in one of the T's, maybe some of the T's. But we all can do something, right? So when we're asking our, you know, particular group of our audience or our donors to share on social media, they can use the time T, right? Time, talent, treasure. It just takes a little bit of time, share it. And it's really cost nothing. You just have to share it. So I think that's a brilliant and a great use case for turning all of your donors into influencers. I think it's fantastic. I think one of my favorite use cases is we actually worked with an nonprofit. You mentioned at the top of this conversation that most nonprofits don't even measure. I mean, this is a 100 plus year old nonprofit. And they never had once measured any sort of marketing metrics at all for a campaign, like zero. They were forced to do their first ever digital or streaming, you know, galor event during COVID. And so, you know, it was a sports related talent show, and they really needed help getting the word out and then obviously driving engagement and people to sign up for it. And so we initially thought that their performance was mostly going to come from email. They had like 60,000, 75,000 people on an email list, sort of traditionally how they ran. So what we did is we measured all of the email stuff and compared it to some of the social media activity in terms of driving traffic and awareness and those sorts of pieces. And just right off of just measuring that one particular piece, we saw that social media was driving everything and email wasn't. And so then we figured out that, okay, it's really coming from Instagram. So let's find some influencers on Instagram that are sports related that can help us really, you know, drive everything that we want. And we measured that and we found that those influencers were absolutely fantastic. And so we really shifted all of our focus to those particular influencers. And then so we kept doing, we kept doing posts, sort of leading up to the event. The second and third posts, it didn't do so great. But we measured all of the all of the posts. And we saw that when we actually posted at this particular time using this type of messaging and this image, this actually did really well. And when we did the other two posts, we didn't use those, right? And so just by measuring that we could optimize in real time, continue to stick with that influencer. And once we optimize that out, we found that those types of messaging and images with other influencers performed really, really well. So like, ultimately, I just love that use case because they never measured anything before. Once we started measuring, we saw really quickly what worked and what didn't. And in real time, we could shift our efforts and our tactics to the things that were working, the things that that weren't, right? Because like off the bat, if you looked at it, sort of the second and third week of this influencer posting, you would think like, Oh, I don't want to stick with them. But we looked at the data, we saw that we do want to stick with them. We just have to change sort of how we work with them. So like a lot of A&B testing, a lot of experimentation, a lot of trial and error, or just really seeing what works. And I think that's a very good point because the messaging that the nonprofit might be using is probably not the same messaging that the influencer would be using, because influencer needs, or the ambassador needs to talk to their audience in a certain way. So you can certainly give them that information, give them that content, but then they need to craft it in a certain way. So actually, while I have you here, I think this is a really important topic. How do we determine success? So I know that it's going to be different for everyone, but specifically for a brand ambassador program, do you have any metrics, maybe three or four metrics that we should definitely be tracking to kind of figure out if this has been successful or not? I always look at it depends on like the goal of the goals, awareness, engagement, or fundraising. Those sort of have three different sets of metrics. But ultimately, we always look at things like reach and impressions and engagement. We want to see how many people are actually seeing that post, how many people are actually liking it, sharing it, commenting on it, really look at those particular metrics. We also like to look at sort of the increase in followers. We like to look at any traffic to the website. We sort of look at it holistically. And obviously, ultimately, if we're raising dollars or driving people to a particular action, we measure all of that. But we would bucket it depending on the goals. Every platform and every sort of goal tier has different benchmarks for sure. But ultimately, if you can get some type of engagement around, depending on the influencer, but what they typically would get for a non-sponsored post or a non-partner post, those are the benchmarks that we typically look at is how well an influencer performs and making sure that we kind of get pretty close to it, they're organic posts. And what do you think an influencer wants? So like when we approach an ambassador, a potential ambassador, how can we make it a win-win for them? What are they generally looking for? Yeah. So clear expectations are number one, like just going to an influencer and saying, Hey, will you work with us? Yes. Hey, will you post about our campaign? No, write me the tweet. Yeah. So so be very specific and prescriptive of exactly what it is that the expectation is that you want like, how do you want to work with them? What do you want them to say? What can you provide them? Right? Be very, very specific and descriptive on how a relationship or partnership to work. So that's number one, they just want to understand like what it is that we're actually engaging with. Number two is they want to be a part of something bigger. They're almost every influencer has a cause or a set of causes that they're very passionate about. So, you know, making sure that you also communicate that you understand who they are, that they are aligned with your vision and values, I think is really, really important. Because again, if you just sort of do a blanket DM or a blanket email and say, we like you, we work with us, that doesn't really, it's not really affected. But if you can say, this is who we are, we like what you say about this particular topic, we would love for you to post at some point during our National Awareness Month. These are the sort of things that we would love for you to post and we're happy to give you some content if that helps you do that, right? Kind of basic stuff and just really line out for them. And ultimately, sometimes they do require a fee and then maybe you can note that and move on. Maybe you can find a corporate partner to subsidize that and it's or one of your corporate partners or maybe somebody on the board runs or runs a business or part of a company that could subsidize that. But ultimately, like getting the conversation started, but being really clear about what the expectations are and why you think they're a good partner are like paramount to really starting the foundation off of a relationship the right way. That's so important. Because if you're going to approach certain people, I'm thinking of like some Twitch influencers, YouTube influencers, they do some research, right? Like see, are they interested in mental health or the arts or LGBTQIA, you know, causes or is this something that they're opposed to? Like I feel like a lot of organizations, they just they all say like, oh, well, we should just go ask Oprah or we should, you know, write a grant and to the Gates Foundation, but there's no true connection there. You know, there's no research. So I guess like do your research and reach out personally. Another question that I have because I do see this come up. I was actually in a panel at the nonprofit technology conference last year around influencer marketing. And a lot of the small nonprofits, even the bigger nonprofits, they have this fear that they're going to be linked to an ambassador that's going to say something or do something or swear or I don't know, like, you know, they're not going to be this perfect angel person all the time. How do you address these fears? And I think this is also why a lot of boards are hesitant to even, first of all, be on social media, but secondly, work with people they can't control. So how do you address these fears with your clients? I think that if this conversation was happening even a couple of years ago, I would say you're, I mean, this happens quite frequently. I mean, the influencer marketing business as a whole really hadn't matured at that point and things could happen. But the creator economy, like it's now its own thing. There are standard operating procedures, there's practices, people understand that it is a business, you are, you know, you're going to be a content creator, that is your business. So if you do these types of things, you know, they know that you won't get any business. But the question I always have is, what's the difference between a celebrity endorsement and an influencer endorsement, right? I mean, celebrities could still say stupid stuff or do stupid things too, right? And so, you know, I think that if we seek celebrity, there's always a risk. But ultimately, what you need to do is make sure you've done your research. You looked at past sort of posts and content and understand who they are. You know, but ultimately, there's some legal stuff that we can put in place that we always do in a contract in terms of morality clauses. But we're in a space now where the creator economy is fully and pretty mature and nobody's going to fault you for working with a creator at all anymore. That's just not necessarily a real risk at this point. As long as you've done your research on who it is that you're working with, you've looked at some of their past content. Because we've definitely worked with organizations and have identified influencers that on the surface look great, for sure. But if you look at some of their past content, they may have said something that was not necessarily kosher or the right thing, especially in regards to the cause that you're on. And so you just got to do a little bit of research and just make sure you know what your partner is. Exactly. And I think that I have sponsors of my podcast and I have sponsors of my newsletter and things like that. And they know me and they are values align. So they know if I say something that might be deemed political or provocative, that it's aligning with them. It's not going to be kind of this totally off the rails thing that I'm going to say. But I agree, you just really need to find people whose values align with yours, but understand you can't 100% control the conversation at all times. And if you're on social media, you can't control the conversation at all. Anyway, you can try, but you really can't. And in the value of a value of an influencer is their authenticity. Right? So like, you know, you kind of want them to be who they are. You can't really say like you have you have this is the box you have to operate in because that's just not going to work in those types of partnerships. So do you have any advice for, you know, the nonprofit professional, like a lot of my listeners, they have so many responsibilities so much on their plate, their fundraisers, their marketers, their social media managers. How can they kind of squeeze this in? How can they make it the most effective that they can, that they can make it? Yeah. So I mean, I believe that the influencer marketing sort of touches all areas. It's part development, it's part marketing, you know. And so I think it's really important to figure out based on what you're currently doing and how you're how you're currently working, how you can start sort of plugging in these types of ambassador programs. I think what you highlighted in terms of creating just a quick media kit to have that you can share to your audience is a really great example of how I think something's slightly small with just a little bit of effort of things you're already doing. You're already communicating to people on social media. You're already communicating to your donors and your email list. If you can just go to candor for an hour, make a nice little post and maybe but write a caption or two, chat GBT now will allow you to do that pretty quickly as a whole nother rabbit hole. But you know, I think do what you're already doing and start sort of piecing things together so that you can easily use it to do outreach again to your donors, to be influencers, to your board, to be influencers and to people that have vision and value alignment on social media as your influencers and just test. You know, it's not to be big, but just do a little bit, share it, get a conversation started and see how it can evolve to again be a better storyteller and build your community. Well, this has been fantastic. I know you're busy. I know your dad. I know you're a startup founder. I know that you are just going meaning to meeting to meetings. So thank you so much for being so generous with your time and expertise. And I want to hear, first of all, who is colitiscope.io4 and where can people learn more information about it? Yeah, so thank you for having me. And again, this has been sort of a fulfillment of a long time. I'm so excited that I got to talk to you today. But colitiscope.io is really for any size nonprofit that is looking to develop any type of influencer opportunity and really scale their storytelling and their community building through that type of means. And it's also for corporations and for for profit businesses that are really looking at how they can sort of scale and adjust and look at the potential future of their social impact initiatives and partnering with influencers and nonprofits. So we work with both sides a lot. And you know, you can reach me nichicolitiscope.io. We're here to support. We have lots of resources. And I'm very, very much looking forward to continuing to work with you Julia on lots of things. Okay, well, thank you so much, everyone. I'll post all of this in the show notes. Oh, you did say you have a webinar, you have some kind of event coming up. Yeah, so we're going to start doing monthly webinars on influencer marketing and just kind of again, helping people understand sort of the core fundamentals of what it is, what it's not, how to start kind of a lot of the things that we talked about today and maybe expanding on a little more. And so I'll share some information with you and we'll hopefully start educating everybody so that people can really start figuring out how to integrate it, integrate it, include it in what they're doing. All right, fantastic. We'll check out the show notes for all of the links and the resources. And thanks so much, Nick, for stopping by. Thanks, Julia. Appreciate it. Well, hey, there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell, seven, seven, keep changing the world. You non-profit unicorn. . .