Crossbows Are Not Archery Equipment: Should Crossbows Be Allowed During Archery Season

Okay guys, welcome back to the raised hunting podcast and we have a Very cool topic today very controversial topic today But we're gonna see how that goes But before we get there we want to thank you guys because we went out and we told you we need reviews We need you guys to do and you listen holy moly we got reviews You were kind of stalking on us. They were just sitting in the shadows. I guess like creeping so you Apple guys You guys we appreciate you Because all of a sudden you came out of the woodwork and started Leaving reviews and so please keep that up. Especially you Apple listeners, but the Spotify people Kept up or ahead so you guys have your work cut out for you Crosshawk is first you said awesome easily my favorite podcast to listen to always funny Here and y'all go at it and debate all the different opinions on the subject at hand Would love to hear more on the subject of scent control working with changes in the thermals We can do that. We'll have that one coming soon Cole Courtney great podcast love the banter between the brothers Keep up good work look forward to it every Tuesday and Nick not love the content can't wait for the sense to be back in stock Appreciate all of you guys and then I'll let you take it away from there. The scents are here They're on location. 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That's not 30 to 40 actually, okay, so it just depends I mean, I didn't go super in depth on the restrictions per Like a handicap not handicap this season this season But out of the states that you can use you can use like 30 30 to 40 of them I just counted as quick as I could so I wasn't boring you No, just in any form you can use a crossbow. That doesn't that's not very that's not a number. I don't need the number I need is archery to turn me up just to touch okay So there's 10 states that don't allow crossbowing at all There's that just read multiple in there that have actually recently made it where you cannot use it Crossbow whatsoever really smart people because I'm going to go on record. There's only very I don't do this very often, but I'm going to go on record and just tell you every Tuesday No, but I mean that when I'm going Crossbows do not belong in an archery season period Take that one to the bank. You know, there is some about states that even classify it crossbows do not belong in an archery season Now I will say there is an exception to that which is what handicapped They what kinds of tools? Someone who cannot draw a bow they they physically can't draw a bow not because they're too lazy or they don't feel like practicing Or anything like that, but they physically cannot do it. They should be allowed I don't want that person to miss hunting season archery season. I would agree with that. I think that I mean Eddie for instance he he shoots left-handed Which I'm not saying you have to go to that extreme, but he's so passionate. They doesn't want to have to utilize a crossbow that he That he's willing to try and teach himself left-handed. So that the this is I'm going to actually argue against myself here a little bit which is kind of surprising But the way they define some of these states that are that have legalized it So for instance we could take Rhode Island Crossbows are now approved for use by all archery Oh, here we go. It is now the same classification As recurves compounds in longbows And so what that means Is I mean they're requiring you to have certain permits as far as like an archery hunting permit Which is what we've had to have to not hear an Iowa specifically But then then they restricted on what turkey you can't shoot a turkey with a crossbow, but you can shoot deer Anyways, my point with that is the fact that they classify what a traditional or a Primitive weapon is by longbow recurve compound And crossbow and where I'm going argue against myself a little bit on this is because you can't classify any of those Together besides recurve and longbow The primitive weapon season I don't even necessarily agree with that terminology for it Because if we're really going to break that down a compound isn't primitive compound has all sorts of new modern cams and pulleys and all sorts of different things that allow you to be much more accurate. So It's archery, but the The accuracy in which you can get out of a crossbow compared to a compound is still such a large you think crossbows are tree No, I'm saying the crossbow the accuracy difference between a crossbow and a compound is still so significant That there's not much of a difference between a crossbow There's more similarities in a crossbow and a gun than there is a compound in a crossbow Just because they have the bow in the name I do not think is valid what's so ever to put that in an archery season or the fact that it uses strings And pulleys just like a bow does So the argument there was not necessarily an argument besides clarifying for anybody that's about to yell at us like well compound shouldn't be allowed either then I get where you're coming from but at the same time I can't take a compound and go shoot comfortably at a hundred yards consistently every shot And get narrow there within a quick enough amount of time to actually be confident in that shot And I can pick up a crossbow right now and do that Okay, well, I think for a few instances we're going to have to defend our thoughts here or Our positions my first question would be And this is just trying to be a completely unbiased is when was an archery season established Like when did that start? When did the state say Okay, there's no you know, we're going to make a separate period of time that only people using a bow can hunt I would think that 50s and 60s Okay, when was the first compound invented before that the nation's first archery only season was established in Wisconsin in 1934 Did they say why now? Well that one could get that could get interesting honestly and the first compound bow was made in 1966 I was going to say that we're talking right now. We're at a 90th bear archery celebrating 90 years Yeah, well, so but that doesn't mean that that was the first year that Fred bear made to come so 19 started with re curves 1934 whatever I just said a 33 Wisconsin made the first season that would be archery only For white tails, okay, so I think to play devil's advocate You would have to qualify that a little bit because we would all agree that there's absolutely a huge difference in Recurbs and longbounds or longbows in a compound. I agree That's what I was doing with and that's where I guess if the if someone came out and told me today That you can't hunt Iowa archery season any longer unless you use a compound or or a longbow I would bring a recurve or a longbow Yeah, recurve or a longbow Then I would probably pick up one of those and start doing it I would try to force my the only issue is with my shoulders the way they are now I don't know that I could actually hunt with a bow strong enough To be able to do that Okay, I don't know how much we need to break this down, but just in case very quickly You have a longbow re a longbow recurve compound and crossbow longbow is your long axle the axles It's one stiff riser. There's no bend back towards like where you're I don't know how to describe without a picture But you'll see like a kind of like a w shape on re curves There's no axle there's no It's 30 it's still a it's still considered an axle to axle measurement 37 inches 43 inches whatever it is I don't know if it's kind of maybe you're right. I don't know the specs that I read on it They put that so I don't know why they would put that if and so a longbow is one stiff board basically if you're really breaking it down Simply a recurve has in a it's still one stiff riser, but it has curves going back forward like I said a w shape Compounds are your Obviously your police cams they have limbs on those separate what risers from the limbs and then your crossbows Horses on all compounds basically you cock them previously to your shot and Their feet per second on average are significantly fat like your compound is shooting like anywhere from two I'd say 220 on the really really slow end to 350 350 to 380 somewhere in there Really fast and I think bow tech came out on that one that went like 370 or something at some point the There was I know there was with a stray about 150. Oh, maybe it was 350. There could have been one faster by no for a fact There was a 350. Yeah, so anyways. There's about a hundred feet per second variant in there Very that is very vague and then your crossbows are what 600 Something that could be way off because I don't shoot oh Well, so this is honestly maybe we're just a bunch of cry babies now on I mean to be a hundred percent honest Because now I'll tell you right now I agree with you a hundred percent And I'll also tell you that I agreed you a hundred percent because I don't want more competition during both season And I feel as though a crossbow is a much easier weapon to utilize than a compound Um, and I don't want to have to deal with other people out there that aren't having to put in the same level of work to be accurate And lethal with a compound as I do And I have no problem admitting that and being a hundred percent up front and saying that that's why I think that I don't want to I don't want to have to compete with a guy that I think that your your common guy that just goes out and buys a tag during rifle season Is the same guy that is going would then go by a crossbow Because he knows he doesn't have to put in the same level of effort to be proficient with it And I don't want to have to compete with that guy all the time during boasts That's just why I wouldn't want to want to have to deal with that guy just to clarify. I was wrong I just looked it's like 300 to 500 is typical Crossfeet per second for crossbows But in which reading that actually kind of surprises me because when I shoot them it's like I mean the ones that I have shot are Quick like significantly fast faster than my compound and they don't seem like when I shoot a hundred yards It doesn't take nearly as long But in the science realm there if they're somewhere in the same feet per second My argument of how much faster they're traveling would be somewhat invalid At the same time done the heck of a lot more accurate I think I think that's hard to win his practice You have to start with in the very first place Oh yeah crossbow I didn't mean that You got to start with a recurve I'll promise you that There What now this is really interesting when you go and you look at the guy that started the bow season Roy we all everybody that's a bow hunter that likes having a bow season. We all owe Roy case Uh, so he had to go and basically make a case for archery hunting during rifle season So they weren't you weren't allowed to use a bow and so he had to go out and prove that by demonstrating that archery gear was lethal for deer hunting Case helped persuade the state to allow archery equipment during the firearm season starting in 1932 Yeah, so that he just had to prove though that it was a lethal way of take not But that was and that was beginning of getting the separate seasons But that was no that was just to get the use of archery equipment Right, I understand period And then from that point then he started trying to get bow seasons and still and so then the very first one was Was five days in 1934 bow hunting sock in Columbia counties only adult bucks were legal during that hunt in the license cost one dollar 40 archers participated in the season That's pretty crazy behave in Oh, man, so okay, so I think we should go around and explain why you you just did your why why do you think that Crossbow should not be legalized in archery during archery season I think Warren summed up his why because his why ain't the same as my why my why for the most one. I don't believe that um A crossbow is archery equipment. I believe archery one Archery has an arch in it. I mean your arrow goes up and and goes down Most of your crossbows even out to a hundred there ain't much arch left in it. They're pretty fricking flat Those whatever you know what I'm saying. You're raven crossbows. I think they're shooting like I think 500 is like the bare minimum 500 feet per second at a hundred yards. I don't think that there's There can't be that much drop in that why not but you also are not having to You're not having to hold any weight at full draw. You are not having to Aim with it at full draw. You're not having to Get away with a movement. You're not having to align a peep site. You're not having to do any of the things that really makes Putting all of the practice and time into becoming a proficient archer The fact that of what gives you the ability to make a good shot I don't think that any of those aspects really apply to a crossbow. It's simple as you cock it and then put the scope on them and you shoot That's very similar to a rifle in my opinion. There's not much difference there between a rifle and a crossbow As opposed to archery now. I would say I could absolutely hear where a guy that shoots a recurve bow Would have a major argument against a compound. I could I could get that a hundred percent because it is In comparison, there's probably not that much difference between Comparing a compound to a recurve as opposed to comparing a compound to a crossbow. They're definitely totally drastic different beasts compound is going to be way way more efficient than a recurve And maybe those guys should be given that time dedicated to just a recurve. I would definitely one hundred percent go to a recurve if I had to um in order to be able to hunt archer season But I also know that it probably wouldn't be Fair to the animals because I'm nowhere near as proficient which it could be a somewhat of a fight for Crossbows, but I would also tell you I believe that can be controlled by the user You you can limit your distance you can practice with your bow and you can take high percentage shots and we've proven that That can be done and have an extremely high Recovery rate. Yeah All right, you go on or you want me to I can um I have a lot of opinions on it. So the I mean if we're throwing our opinion straight out there. I don't agree with Crossbows being implemented in any archery season unless it's due to a handicap In order to give them the ability to do. Yeah, I'm good with that too. I'm good with that The issues I have with just letting anybody shoot a crossbow um, I would relate very similarly to if it was a lot easier for you to pick up the right Rifle and get the right suppressor you'd about Have the exact same thing as a crossbow at 150 yards of whatever your accuracy is in silence and so going to shoot or going to hunt with a crossbow You're basically getting the exact same benefits. You're getting from a rifle That is more relative to a bow and so the reasons I don't agree with that is because I can go pick up A crossbow a rifle a shotgun the majority of weapons that are Firearms more so than I guess a bow um In shoot anywhere from 60 to 100 some yards if not further depending on the weapon With very minimal practice very minimal experience and be able to hit accurately or at least within the vital zones of an of an animal Which on the flip side would tell you that okay? That sounds like the way you should be doing it because that is the most ethical way to do it What I also tell you is that When I pull a compound out I have to do I have to practice a lot I have to have the right form after I have the right technique I have to have all these things but it also Gives an animal a heck of a lot better of a chance because instead of I am just as efficient at 40 yards With my compound as I would be at 100 yards with a crossbow But what that requires is an animal to get within 40 yards within 30 yards And me still have to I have to get to full draw I have to be able to make that shot as I would any other time when I'm practicing And they actually actually have to get them there they have a fair opportunity That's that's the hard thing that I have with I don't disagree with Much hunting. I mean as long as you're doing it fairly. I don't have much of an issue with it But I have a very tough time understanding certain things like taking thousand yard shots On animals and things like that whether you know you can make the shot or not Is it really hunting when all you have to do is walk over to a hill and shoot I understand it takes a heck of a person to make the shot But it's not the the a white tail should have ding there just as much advantage or Ability to get away as I do to harvest it And maybe I'm a terrible hunter but I would say that they do have a pretty good fair fair chance Especially when I'm in the woods to be how That's not firing an arrow at that animal You're meaning that you're not saying that for every time that you shoot at one There's a 50-50 chance that they're getting away You're saying that now I'm talking about getting them close. Yes, and that there's a chance that they might be able to get away That they may bust you or before you ever lose an arrow Yes, the other thing I think you got to keep in mind too like that you were saying is is One when you come to full draw There's a limit on how even with 90% let off how long you can hold that that bow of full draw Yeah, there is the other thing I'll tell you too is that I know you can do that with a lot of bows in my preference I shoot the least amount of let off I possibly can because of the style in which I shoot May not be the smartest way Maybe it is, but it's a preference and so I keep my let off is like I met like 70 some 72% or something Which is lower than the average compound nowadays Besides the point you could still hold it for a minute or something like that though We're across both ready to shoot all the time. Mm-hmm always ready to fire and so I I would I disagree very strongly with crossbows in an archery season Not including the handicap What I don't I don't care if if there's already a shotgun season or there's already a muzzle loader season or whatever else I don't care if there's a Crossbow season and or you can use a crossbow in there too I don't see there's not much of a difference at that point because you're probably shooting the same distances But I mean you could get into this as far as like muzzle loaders too the whole point they made muzzle loader seasons Was because you could only shoot them a hundred hundred fifty yards And now they're making muzzlers where you can shoot out to three four hundred yards. Is it really fair? I don't know I don't necessarily think it is that's like that's exact same thing as a crossbow So in that in that light now I say that out loud it I can see where they're trying to make it legal because there's another type of cross or another type of bow But I don't even classify as a bow Even even though it has the same components it doesn't operate the same and it does not have the inconsistencies of what Compound or even lesser than that recurs and long bows do well It has it has some similarities to a bow and that it does have a string and it does have some real wheels But not same however It also has some of the same similarities as a gun That is a trigger and a freaking safety And if you have that then So But and I agree with both of the I agree with Warren in that I don't want to have to deal with other people in the woods that aren't there Trying to get the experience of the hunt out of it and and maybe that's what they're doing now Maybe that's what they're trying to do But at the same time there's seasons for them to go do that with I'm talking about the ones that aren't practicing it But but here's my one reason that would be the case though then that they can't do that Otherwise is because they're lazy I get that but at the same they they could be taking that and still experiencing you that that right there is the selfish outlook But but let me finish my statement because my point is Is the reason that I don't want to deal with those people during that time is because if I get enough of them there One of two things are going to happen one We're going to lose the primitive weapon season that we have the archery season because there is too many people Therefore we look like we're too effective or we are too effective Okay, or vice versa. We're going to have a whole lot of wounded deer And and whatever else that they may be hunting at that time But it's going there for every cause there's an effect And so my point is is that the reason that the states have put implemented these many of these Seasons that they've given us are for numbers is typically the reason why they're giving you that opportunity to hunt more time Okay, they don't open it up and say okay, well we didn't kill enough deer last year So this year we're going to lengthen gun season All the way up to september 15th They don't do that and and I do think that That is a big the primitive weapon seasons were put in place so that people could have the experience of going out and doing it in a primitive way I agree the compound bow is is right on the line Now the way we use them and it's not the way that a lot of people and that is we're still trying to get closest I know some guys that are that can shoot recurves and longbows 40 yards effectively. I've seen them, but they're very few when it comes to white tails I've never killed a white tail buck that I couldn't have killed with a recurve Meaning that if I was going to go and say I'm going to be able to shoot a recurve And and I have done that and it was a train wreck to some extent however though at 20 yards I could maintain a group in a softball without an issue Every time and I don't think I've ever killed a deer Dragon was the furthest at 25 24 I think Bolwinkle was eight Magnum was 14 There's a lot of yeah, I can't I can't the mood our average shot distance on white tails Is definitely 20 yards or under probably I haven't done it now and probably 10 years But the first 200 white tails or 150 white tails that I killed my average shot distance on them was 12 yards I went back and figured it from each one of them and the average shot distance was 12 yards I'd be curious to know what it is with a crossbow for most people though Well from what I'm seeing a lot of people that I've been talking to about it or I've talked to I've read posts and articles and stuff And they make it sound like it's You're still only able to shoot 60 yards like that's tough to do You're still only able to shoot 50 yards and things like and I'm I don't know Sorry, there's probably going to piss a lot of people off But I don't know if you're just that bad of a shot But I have touched a crossbow maybe twice in my life and I've shot them at a hundred yards With groups a couple inches Consistently and that's from no experience. So if you can't shoot if you can if you're only struggling to shoot 50 or 60 yards with a crossbow There's probably some issues now. I will say some of those states. I just read there You can't have a scope on it or you can't have magnification on it in that situation. It's a little different I could understand that you're not going to be able to shoot 60 70 yards like that Maybe we're that free handing in or something. I have free handed it dude at a hundred at a hundred yards With a three power magnification. So it's not much Really Yes, and I am not a marksman with rifles or anything. So that is saying something if I can shoot 80 to a hundred yards That consistently free handed Okay, there's it's if an eight year old can walk out and do it pretty simply With the never touching it or practicing once or twice and go harvest something with it. It's probably not very difficult to do Well, not to take anything away from an eight year old, but I mean their ability to pull star eight year old Their ability to pull something back. That's the significant amount of weight to actually harvest an animal or shoot a wreaker Or shoot a longbow that's enough weight to actually harvest ethically They probably can't do that, but a crossbow they could pick that up and walk out and hammer it So now then that's another one that I would say would possibly be Uh an exception young kids like in a youth season Now the part I would have an issue with that is you place you have like a 12 to 16 is your youth or whatever Well, if you're 12 you're probably if I mean you if you're gonna shoot a bow you should be able to shoot Yeah, here in Iowa, you know, it's up to 16 is under 17 even It's 15. It's not 17. I don't I can't remember if 16 is the last year or if it's 15 is the last year and then I don't know Well anyhow, I don't I agree that I do believe that the crossbow does not belong to in an in an archery season And unless there's some reason that that person cannot partake in a Vertical limbo. Yeah of some sort Look out. I'll even take a stance on this one that I would happily uh I'll go ahead and throw out this is this is if if this were to become big enough where enough people were able to shoot crossbows during season My theory is that we this this come this theory is coming from tracking in the amount of calls I get whether I take a track or not But the amount of calls I will get I get 15 to 20 calls every week during hunting season And I listen to all of them and I talk to them I ask them all the questions all sorts of things about where you shot at how you hit it what this distance all these different things Okay, my theory would be if they legalize Crossbows which some places it is legal in archery seasons Well the more common or the more popular it becomes You're going to start seeing some trends as People start using con or crossbows a lot more they realize they can be a little more effective at longer distances And you're going to start finding these 80 90 100 yard shots on deer or elk or whatever they're shooting with it That are not lethal and where I'm relating that is with the compound. I'm running into the same things of I would say under 40 yards 35 35 like 40 yards of people that have called me have a pretty dang good shot They just have not found it yet or they have not they they Had an issue with their track or they're scared to go in and they end up actually finding it when they've had a marginal Now the ones that have shot over they have a compound bow and they think they can shoot 50 60 70 80 yards Whatever Maybe you can't shoot that far but there's a lot of things that come into play with that and I would say that those ones It has extended a compound to the fact of they feel like they can shoot further because the bow can do it and then you have more unethical shots and more wounded animals and I think the same thing is going to happen with crossbows Where the more popular gets that people start understanding hey, I can shoot this further And they're gonna start stretching it out and you're gonna start having more wounded deer and more ethical shots This just as much as we are to blame with a with a compound Well, I think and so add to that real quick the one We don't agree with long distance shots on compounds either. Nope not one bet and two I would venture to say that When you go get into the statistics of long distance shots with a compound That I would say shots past 60 The recovery rate probably goes to I think it's only like 70% for Like 30 and under from an article I'd read at some point of you really high So I'll bet it like you go past 60 and I'll bet it's like 40% or less So all these guys telling you that they're shooting stuff at 100 yards all the time and 80 and 90 really impressive. It's over 10 percent I can't cover more than that but it's not it's not very much But the thing that I guess we need to clarify that's the thing though that nobody tells you that of those guys that are flinging arrows at Antelope or deer or anything else at 80, 90, 100 yards They're not telling you how many they hit or how many they missed Before they hit one Right And here's the thing is will flat tell you we love shooting long distance It's a lot of fun even with a rifle to go shoot a gong Yeah, you know, but why is it that we need to kill an animal at a long distance to It's not fair to the animal to take and see if that shot is going to be effective It's just not I mean shoot a gong shoot a target put it out there Thousand two thousand yards if you want to and then with a bow if you want to put it at 100 yards do it Man, it's fun especially with a lighted knock right in the last part of the evening And that's going to make you more effective at a distance you should be shooting at that's ethical Not just for what you the the equipment that you have is capable of doing But what the animal has an effect on this the gong target or the 3d target that you're shooting does not move ever Yeah, but the but the live animal that you're shooting has the ability to move and that's the issue that you have to face And I so I guess I just I don't know I maybe I'm wrong Maybe I come from a different place or a different thought process because I got into archery hunting Because I love the closeness of it. Yeah, I wanted to hear him I wanted to see him. I wanted to smell him. I wanted to know everything about them I because I did the same thing as you did I tried to go to a to a traditional archer archery My issue was I couldn't shoot 20 yards if I could have shot 20 yards I might still be shooting recurve or longboat today I could 15 was as far this that I could possibly get to where my my group stayed consistent I could shoot 20 and at 20 I would have eight out of 10 arrows typically in a four or five inch circle But then the problem that I would have is those two might be off by a foot and I never could Calculate and figure it so that meant that I had to bring my minimum shot distance to 15 yards And I felt like I wasn't going to be effective or do the animal justice by doing that I wouldn't get any shots typically are very few So how are you going to defend a person that can't shoot a compound accurately enough And they still want to be able to have the feeling of shooting something similar to a bow What do you mean? How am I going to do someone that shoot it exactly? The thing is what you did you couldn't shoot a recurve well enough so you took the easier option If somebody can't shoot a compound well enough they may say okay, I know I'm not ethical enough with a compound I'm going to shoot a crossbow Because now I'm still at least using some form of a less obnoxious or let that's not the right word But a more primitive weapon than what a rifle would be So now I can at least still hunt my archery season and still feel like I'm hunting something with a bow Would you tell somebody what how would you argue that? I would say that you need to practice a little more because we're talking about two different types of weapons completely I would have two two states that I think one That that specific person if I could bend the law and that's truly Honestly their answer I'm good with that I don't have a problem with that person I believe that legalizing the crossbows is not giving you that person I think that it's okay But then the second thing I would tell you is judging from camp and the amount of kids that we've had come through and everything I There's not I don't think there's been one person yet that couldn't at least At least wasn't on track to be able to shoot proficiently to 25 or 30 yards. Yeah And that's kids 12 to 17. Yeah, I'm talking and and we've even had some kids that I had a girl that I had to work with that could not hit the target at 10 yards and it took us a day and a half But after that day and a half she was shooting 20 yards right Because I'm saying some of them don't have all their faculties meaning they might have an eye issue They may have a hand issue some kind of different they're missing an arm. Yeah, that makes it tough We've we have there's guys that shoot with their feet absolutely fair But we've had all kinds of them and they all are capable of still shooting that bow Somewhat proficiently, but it takes a lot of effort. It takes a lot of work But anyhow, so and I I would I would say to the same Degree that yeah, if you could bend the law and that person was truly that's all that they were doing was trying to use that in place of Then I'm okay with that You know, but what do you I can see you're just chomping at the bit neck. What do you got? Well, he wanted me to do a little bit of research to see how many states actually allowed for crossbows during all seasons archery Would be the main one that he was looking for right out of that research if my numbers are correct 30 out of the 50 states have crossbows legal for every season archery included So we're a little over half a little over half if you're looking at states that just have it specifically for handicapped You would have Why massages in a soda Montana New Hampshire New Mexico North Dakota South Dakota, Washington are the ones that can't That's handicapped If you're looking at the two So what is that 10? Yeah, if you're looking at the two states that have illegal um Crossbow yeah, legal crossbow Alaska is bow only areas and Oregon is the only state in the continental US that does not New York what's your source New York is that point is incorrect It's a crossbow company Yeah, and that's why they're incorrect because Iowa you have to you cannot just buy it You can't you can't go crossbow hunting during archery season in Iowa you have to have a um a medical Certification New York just made it completely illegal for all crossbows too I just read that one so and I'm wondering what the what is the Reasoning for them to go to appreciate the effort though Nick Well, I'm just trying to figure out why would they do that? Why would I would stay go back now and say We're now going to make them illegal where they at once had them legal for some part of it That's a valid. I would like to read about that The only one thing that I could say that you you do see some of it now you hear about it and that is poaching Because a crossbow can be fired from inside of a window of it now how How does making crossbows A legal Prevent somebody from doing something that's already illegal. I'm not just the fact that they legally could be out there with it So then now they have a reason to have it in the truck game more and stop some oh, okay. I got your crossbow I'm lost. I don't see the connection there whatsoever. I think if they're poaching. I don't think they give it shit what they do Well, I don't want them doing it at all. I know I think they disregard that New York would be the state to do that though It doesn't make any sense New York would be this is gonna work Can you sit in the front seat of your truck and fire across I mean fire your compound bow out the window out the other window I could Yeah, really if I wanted to do that I could shoot it out the opposite side I think we want to see this you can you could definitely should have gone out there though. Yeah with a with them Silence or anything and if it's already illegal to to shoot deer anyway All I'm saying is that you've given the person by having crossbows legal to be carrying them them around Then now they're used when they shouldn't be you if they couldn't have them there Meaning New York makes it illegal Alaska already has it a legal or Oregon does where you can't have them out there at all Now there's no reason when the It doesn't have warden stops his truck to have the game to have the crossbows there I don't have a crossbow in the truck whether you're hunting with it or not It's not like crossbows themselves are illegal in states I could still have a crossbow in my truck. Why would you have it there? Well, I like to shoot Okay, that I'm just saying that's not any benefit to what why is it then that they've made the crossbow? I don't think it has anything to do with poaching I would say it probably has something to do with the effect of how many deer they're killing in a season And they're trying to get it under control or it's excessive or there's been injury or there's been some form of something that is not Same reason that you can't shock and hunt a rifle hunt like Iowa you can't you they've Laxed on it a ton, but you couldn't use rifles because of many reasons one how many animals They were being able to harvest and two the danger of that the two population of people Okay, I can tell you that that it is not the case in any play in any state anywhere That their hunters are too effective Which is what you just said that they're taking away the crossbow because they're killing you can minus one of your arguments Earlier from us killing too many because that was your argument. No, it's saying that put enough people out there You know it's not that without any one person and but in a multitude of them may be become effective That's what you're talking about Then why are you saying that my argument isn't fair? Because I don't believe that that what you just agree with it because if they're being too effective with a crossbow They would possibly take away the crossbow bunch of them who's talking about just one we're talking about crossbows in general Okay, we don't know why the crossbow is illegal, but that is your argument and I just reworded it Okay, I need some popcorn I I think that you realize that your argument did that make make much sense and you didn't want to just walk it back Which I understand I've been there myself many times I get it But is what you're saying would be like saying let's make murder illegal What okay, so here's what I'm gonna say that hold on hold on can you just got to speak you said that you said that You said that they just made crossbows illegal now And then is what you said is that or they made what why did they make crossbows why did they make it illegal you said maybe because of poaching Okay Well poaching is already illegal So how does making a crossbow illegal Stop poaching anymore somebody from doing something that's already illegal it doesn't stop them But I'm just saying that it puts the puts the web the weapon in their hand But I would be like saying selling crack is illegal So now we're gonna make selling drugs illegal okay, then what then I'd love to hear from someone from New York on why they did it Okay, and we just said that we're gonna try to read about it and that's what we just gave you another option. You said that's not fair either Okay, anyways here is an issue so with places that does have legalized Uh, for instance Iowa okay, Iowa is in my opinion I think that our DNR does a fabulous job with a lot of the conservation that goes on in Iowa Hence the reason we have some of the caliber of deer that we do I think that they have an awful law in place With crossbows and the reason I say that is because I know for a fact and the only reason I can even put this out there is because I've had hunts ruined by Guys with crossbows that I know 199% that they do not have a single physical disability what so ever and they do have one The my point with that is people taking advantage of what the law is there to do to help and how people have done That is they go find the same doctor that'll give you a script for Adderall that you don't need but you're gonna get it You can go find a doctor that says oh you have some shoulder pain. I don't think you should be drawn a bow back Here you go and gives you a crossbow one Because the amount once they've started doing that the amount of crossbow hunters in Iowa has freaking skyrocketed And I know that guys are taking advantage of that because I've literally had them walking under my stand And not to be biased against them It's not like I'm just saying oh they've got a crossbow in their hand. I hate them No, that's not the case. What's so ever? It's the fact that I actually know who they are I know how they got it And I know for a fact that they don't have a physical disability to allow them to have a handicap Crossbow And so that is one of the massive things that I think that you run into issues with is guys that are gonna use it in the incorrect Iowa I will had made that so that people with disabilities or handicaps could still hunt an archery season That wasn't for anybody else that didn't want to shoot a compound or likes to rifle hunt But wants to have the ability to hunt that early season or hunt a buck that's early so they have the chance to kill them first They're now all they're doing is taking away from every hunter and stealing because they're taking advantage of the system Okay, so let's ask a honest question though. How do you mitigate that? I think you already said you'd have to educate the medical field No, I think you have time to go and I think you have to have tested doctors No, I think you have to have a doctor that you have approved in Grand scheme of things though There's a doctor really care that much like I think they're gonna be like dude I got deal with people that have cancer and all kinds of other stuff I don't really care about your deer with crossbows Uh, I don't know. I mean it's it would be their duty to tell you whether or not somebody is physically capable of doing something Same reason they tell you not to go pick up a 10 pound weight when you have a shoulder issue. I'm just saying like the actual If you're gonna if you're gonna if we're all gonna say yes We think that people that actually needed that are handicapped Or have some limiting ability to be able to shoot a bow should be able to use a crossbow They have to see there's always going to be people that are going to Abuse the system that I I get that but the them you asked how to mitigate it You only need four or five doctors That you've vetted and now and you they have to set appointments for those doctors Those are the only doctors that are approved to be able to write that Which would mitigate it tremendously I think I don't know I the state would have to pay my opinion Well, they could have I mean they might get a kicker I mean they because they're still gonna have their regular doctor job. It's not there's enough crossbow people that They would have a full-time job writing scripts for crossbows. I don't know With that being said I know you have a wacky fact today. Oh wacky fact Warren's wacky facts In fact or so are we done? I think so all right well there's there you go I don't think we really have an opinion on this topic I don't think we've got our point across I think we could have probably done that one in about 12 minutes and said you could have said what you did and I said I agree He's could said I agree and that was that was really probably About the summary of it Now this is the real question is do we agree on this? According to this fact the water boy would be incorrect Meaning that they're not grumpy because they can't brush their teeth. It's because they have some other weird thing in their tooth It makes them grumpy. Nope a crocodile cannot stick its tongue out They have a membrane that holds their tongue in place on the roof of their mouth so it can't move What part in the water boys he refer to their tongue? I'm saying that that would be the reason the crocodiles are grumpy They can't stick their tongue out No, they can't even remove it from the top of their mouth. So they just don't have a tongue think about if you're talking about it It'd be grumpy hill you don't have to they don't have to talk No, but they got to eat That's not affecting how they think about that. Yeah, it is their tongues all their all their food's going under their tongue I don't know. You make me Yeah, what is your freaking fact? It's that's the fact that it's information that tongue that crocodiles have a membrane that holds their tongue in place on the River mouth and therefore you think it makes them grumpy Um, well, they seem to be pretty grumpy. Yeah, okay, it does not affect How they eat because it is stuck there eating may work, but it may not be as enjoyable. It's a big hole in their Their tongue down. They don't know any different Well, of course it looks like a hole because it's stuck to the top of their mouth Yeah, but I'm saying for sure it's probably hard time every time they open their mouth No, if our tongue was stuck to the top of our mouth We wouldn't be able to eat very well because it blocks your throat. There's doesn't block their throat That's my point to evolve now. Oh my gosh your fact was going to go back to the lie bird facts Was it better? I don't know where I found those ones debunked That wasn't debunked all right All right guys. Well, I think that we're going to end this podcast on a Weird note, I guess I don't know you guys figure out whether you your tongue but really would bother you are Stop signs used to be yellow. I agree with that still Why don't I have to stop all the way? I never stop all the way Ha Helping me the law enforcement listeners do so anyhow thank you guys some of them before too though, so Thank you guys for listening. We appreciate it. We still want you guys to drop your reviews share the podcast with others Send in your opinion. Maybe you totally disagree with us on the crossbow issue um, I mean everyone's got their own opinion and I if you do let us know maybe we'll have down the podcast Yeah, we'll see all right. Well, thanks again. We'll see you next week