High Fence Escapee 366" Monster Kansas Buck | What Would You Do?

All right, guys, well, welcome back to the raised hunting podcast. And we are kind of recuperating after a long weekend at the Iowa deer classic. To those that attended the classic, it was off the chart. I mean, there was more people than we've ever seen there. And we want to thank a whole bunch of you that stop by and said, love the podcast. You know, and for those of you that stopped by and said, you hated it. We didn't hear you. We didn't hear you say it. No, I'm kidding. Long story short, though, we really appreciate the fact that you guys are sharing with your friends that there is a podcast. And we heard that going on there. We really appreciate the reviews. It's helped tremendously. And then on top of that, there was a few people though that came by, stopped, talked to us about the podcast. And today's topic is going to come from one of those young man named Devin. So a big shout out to Devin because he brought this topic up to us, even though it was already out there. And I had heard about it though, until he said something to Warren and Warren said something to me. Well, I'm looking on my phone and it's all over social media. And this was back in 2021, 2021 that it happened. It's that old. It is September 16th of 2021. Wow. But we're going to raise this topic because I think we have some serious to say that we might differ on this would be an understatement. So here we go. Thank you guys again for being here and joining me again. Is our same two special guests. And yeah, we do have one of those really short buses. Why? Where's the bus? It's outside. Hey, I got Hey, I actually have a bus with our name on it now. What? Yeah. In Alabama, they wrote our name on it and put our broad head on it and everything. It's going to be mobile still. Yeah, that one's not mobile. Not mobile. Nope. That's going to be turkey hunting bus. I don't think yet. Sweet. Anyways, let's do this. Let's talk about this because this should be interesting. So September 16th, 2021 is what the internet says. A young man in. And you can believe everything on the internet. And I say young man because he's younger than me. He's not a kid. But this gentleman and I'm going to use his name because it's out on the internet. So Blake Keating shot a monster Kansas buck. Okay. Yes, from what I can read here, he was in a tree stand or in a ground blind and shot a 332 inch white tail. Okay. So I see I'm already, I already thought that Devin was the one that had shot it. No. Oh, no, Devin just knew of the story. Go get on your bus. Yeah. Shut up. So anyhow, but from what I understand and you guys correct me if I'm wrong, this gentleman knew that the deer had gotten out of a high fence and but had been out of the high fence for 10 months. So at what point does it? First of all, first question is at what point does a white tail deer or any other animal that gets out of a high fence become part of the wild herd that you would consider that animal he's wild now. And second of all, what would you do? What would you, would you shoot this deer or not? For one to answer that, I don't think that there's a valid answer. It's all opinion. But I would think if they made it a year out of a fence, there's somewhat more wild. I'd be impressed if they even made it a year to be honest. Did you imagine finding the shed? Oh my gosh. Kind of. That'd be over an 80 after walking over an 80. It's 125. I'm joking with Warren because he's so obsessed with an 80. I could probably cut off half of it and still make it to shoot it. Just to shoot it. Well, okay, there's a whole bunch of controversy that goes with this one because number one, all right, let's take it this way. You don't know that he got out. What do you think and what a 300 and if you could see the picture of this deer, it is a freakazoid. Which we'll put a picture on here. I'm not going to lie. Personally, I think that if I saw that picture, I'd be seeing if there was any fences around in my area because that deer to me. It doesn't look right. Well, you're talking. It doesn't look like a free range. You're talking that picture first though, right? You're getting the trail camera picture first. I was envisioning dad saying that you didn't know this thing existed and you're sitting in a stand and it comes walking by. I'm shooting. And in Iowa, like we're around here, I'm going to go with, yeah, I'm shooting solely for the fact that I don't know a freaking high fence anywhere near. I wouldn't even connect the dots thinking that it would be a high fence. Shoot two. I don't think any of them, because one, I'm thinking two things. One, I probably, if it did get out of a high fence, I can probably shoot it and not even have to use my tag. I would call it DNR. I'm not going to lie, I'd be really bummed. I'm not kidding. If what? Like I would shoot it really happy, you know, because you're like, well, you see, for instance, not necessarily like that, but Nick, one of our good friends, killed a buck that is like, it looks like a high fence. A hundred percent looks like it's from high fence, but it was completely natural. That deer doesn't face from a high fence. No, I was going to say, I disagree with that. I think that you're saying this side. No, I was caliber. Yes. But he doesn't have the traits of a high fence deer. But he's so freaking big that it's, I don't know. And so having that thing walked by, I would be excited to shoot it at first. And then I would, when I would calm down, start thinking, okay, this has got to be from high fence. They get it tested, the DNR looks at it. Okay. What are the odds though that you aren't going to know that there's not a high fence, or that there is a, there's not a high fence in your area? Like, what are the odds? I know, I would not know. I would not know. Like, I don't feel like I would in places that we hunt like, I know if there's a high fence in your near it. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I feel like I would, that would be probably the first thought if you knew if I saw that deer in the wild, I feel like the first thing went through my head. High fence. That one specifically. Yeah, that's what I'm saying is I'm thinking high fence, but would be escapee. How the heck could you get it? I don't know. I'm not saying I wouldn't shoot him still. No, I think I would. I think I'd just be bummed when it came back to the fact that it was actually high fence. Okay. Wait a minute though. But so what do you think it was going through your mind when this deer comes walking in 332 inches? Looks like a freak whether you are able to duck to deduct in your head at that moment. This is probably not a real white tail that it's a real white tail. It's not a real wild. I mean, what are you, what goes through your head? That's why I was like, this is definitely worth talking about. Two things for me. One, I think I would be seriously questioning. I think I'd be sitting there thinking is a legal to kill it because if I am pretty certain that it's a high fence or something, I don't, I, that's just one of those areas like the guy that had the mountain line come by this year, he hasn't come by, he's never had that situation. He has no idea if it's legal to kill it or not. Ends up finding out later he can kill it. But if I'd be sitting there thinking, okay, it's a high fence. I feel like I could kill it. What am I going to do when I kill 330 inch deer and I wasn't supposed to kill it? Like, Well, we make it where you're not. Yeah, there's no way. There's a difference between the mountain line and the deer. Hold on. I'm not an ear tag on that deer, is there? Not that I saw, but I'm not saying there isn't. Well, there's an ear tag. No, they think that the ear tag got ripped off is what I heard. Okay. There is no ear tag on them. It might not necessarily be a legal thing, but it's the right thing. I don't want to know. One, two, three, four, five drop times. I wouldn't know what to think. Yeah. Number two is I also think that I wouldn't be as nervous. Genuinely. I think I'd be way more scared about a freaking 180 inch deer coming in. Because that's so out there. You got to think. No way you don't know that's a high fence. I think that I think most people and I think maybe even I don't think you're going to know. Really? Now, one, we got to separate it because this guy did know. So that's a completely different scenario. Yeah. But let's just play along for a minute and say you have no idea whatsoever. I think that as soon as you see part of that rack, if you know what you're doing, you're not looking at it. You're done looking at the rack. That's right. I would let myself freak. The only thing you're focusing on is shooting it. And then you're probably thinking looking at it that way, I could see myself freaking because I would see that. I'm like, okay, shoot her. Right. Well, here's the thing. I mean, everyone who's ever killed a world record deer had to have known they were looking at a freak of nature. They're all freaking huge. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, and so my point is. Well, I think that some of them like the Brewster Buck or whatever that. So here, this is something that's wild to think of that put everything in perspective. The world record now free range world record is like 327 or something like that. How was that even a thing? And that's that thing's only five inches bigger. Do they test that? What do you mean? Like test it for to see if it's any bloodlines from a high fence. I mean, I'm sure they they. I'm sure the day test a lot of those. Yeah, they will have to sign an affidavit and everything else that says and so. Yeah, but not necessarily coming from my offense. What if it bred with a deer from a high fence somehow? Because natural if you're thinking about naturally how the heck is a deer getting to 327? Well, there's some. Well, there's just I mean, how does one get to 254? And I mean, I was. The year was 254. I think it's insane. Okay. So it's possible. It's antlers. How do you know what's possible? It's measured 327 and 78. Where is it from? From Illinois Brewster's Buck beat out the previous record held by Michael Beatty in 2000 by over 33 inches. Well, and here's the other thing about that too. That's a freaking elk though. I don't that must be. That must be the net. So under what gross score was. It couldn't be that much. I'm just. It's a non typical. Could it? So that deer comes walking through the woods, man. Yeah, I promise you unless unless someone has talked to you like this previously, you're freaking out when when when I looked at it in the way Warren put on freaking because I'm going to see that. I'm going to shoot her. I'm going to know that it's huge and I'm going to keep my eyes shut until he gets close enough. I shoot him. That's what I'm doing. Okay. I got my eyes shut. Come on, baby. Let me know when he's 20 yards. I'm just going to listen for the leaves crinkle and when he comes in. The final Boonock Crocken numbers of the Brewster Buck. 337 and an eighth gross. It's a 10 inches difference. And then 327 and 78 net. So technically you could say that's realistic. But they say that one is 332. 332 is what that was what I heard. I don't know. See, I want to know what kind of tests they can't even do to see. Well, this one's a world record. I understand that. I'm sure that if that deer was in offense, somebody would have known. I'm not talking about it being in offense. I'm talking about the fact that it could have been bred from a deer in offense. Dude, I think that you have you got to look at overall of history. How many do you ever broke the 300 mark? Yes. You got freaks. There's people that are seven feet tall. Yeah, I don't know though. That's the right though. The right buck. I know how he comes in the eight right age. And there he is. I wonder if you look at it that way in an all natural perspective, what are the statistics behind it? Not that you could ever figure that out, but it'd be really interesting because the chances of that deer would be one and however many deer there's ever been. No, it wouldn't. It'd be less than that. Because you're thinking like what he's saying because the dough is a massive portion of the genetics more so than the male. Yeah, but if you took the entire population of all the white tail deer there's ever been, at least that we know of. And then you cut it in half. It'd be just one in one of them. Or double it I guess. No, because it's going to be more than that. It would be like 0.00 something percent that deer gets to that point. That's a lot of. You're so seen that kind of deer is higher is much higher than winning the mega million as I said, I would have a better better odds probably going to try to win the lottery than going to kill a 330 inch deer. You're even a 330 inch deer being born. The craziest thing to me is the difference between typical deer and non-typical deer. Like the not the typical world record and a non-typical world record. It's over a hundred inch difference. Yeah. Well, yeah, it has to be. Okay. That's just wild though. Hold on though. That let's go wild in general. So you would have shot. If you didn't know, if you saw this deer. First scenario, no idea. I'm shooting. No doubt. I mean, it's a big buck. I'll figure out and there's no way anyone's charging you when it's a hunting season and you're shooting. That's the difference between the mountain lion that you were talking about and the deer is this deer is legal game. We'll figure out the laws later. Just saying we could argue the whole elk argument after that too though. Could be. Yeah, you can because they had said two years ago and we got one on camera. They thought that the best chances are it's a high fence so it's completely legal to shoot it. What I'm saying as far as you're not going to mistake, there's a chance that deer could be wild. You see what I'm saying? I'm not talking about mistaking. I'm just talking about the fact that an animal got out of a high fence and you're saying that it's okay to shoot it. Yeah, but I'm talking this one is one that actually lives in the state and there's an established population that exists. I, but we all agree if that if the scenario was we didn't know the difference, we'd shoot it. We wouldn't be that upset if you got to the DNR or whoever you contacted to let them know that you think you might have just shot a world record and they tell you it came from a high fence. I would kind of be possibly expecting that. So what do you think when you got up to it then? So after you. I'm taking pictures quick. But I don't think I would know what to think. I think I would. I think I would. Couldn't convince that it's a free range deer and you did just kill world record or do you think that you that it this could be a fence deer? I think in that scenario, the first thing that I'm doing is I'm looking at for your test. Is there hole in his ear? Is there tattoo in his gums? You know, is there something? Why they put tattoo in their gums. So that they can still tell who they are in case your tech comes out. Where's that? Because they're gangster deer. Not that kind of tattoo. I mean, it's a tattoo in their gums. But it doesn't last. It does last. I wouldn't do it. If the deer has a tear drop, you better watch it. Haven't you seen all these white chicks that get a freaking tattoo right here because over the amount of time it goes away? No. Yes, I don't. I don't. I don't know where you guys get your information. This is weird. They don't brand them. Like I don't know. We're way off topic here. Well, I'm just curious about a tattoo inside the lips. That doesn't make any sense. Well, I just know that they have done that to animals in the past, especially those because then they didn't have to have an ear tag and you could still identify who. So maybe it lasts five years. I don't know. So dad's sitting there looking for holes in the ears and he'll his lips back. I'm trying to figure out what's going on. What's your name? He's got a tattoo on the gum. I'm taking a grill too. Guys, he's probably strapped to if you're lucky. That's what I said. You better hope he doesn't have a tear drop tattoo. That means he's killed other deer. Oh my gosh, I did not hear you say that. That's good. All right. He walks in. We shoot him now. Your question. I mean, I would think if you kill a freak of nature of that caliber, you got to question yourself for a little bit, you know, whether or not what's going on. I think as soon as I got up to the deer, you get over the deer drop comment. I'm calling the game warden because I don't want to let myself get too excited until I have some confirmation, like at least an idea, just because I couldn't imagine anything that would be more heartbreaking than thinking that you've possibly killed a world record today. I think you'd know though. I think you'd be when you walk up on him, you'd have a pretty, you're like, okay, if this is a wild deer, it's a hundred percent of world record. If it's not, I think you'd be pretty neutral. All I'm saying is if I'm just trying to apply this to realistic, like actually places we hunt, if I shot that deer and I know there's no high fences around everything, sure, I might have a hard time believing it. But at the same time, I probably be like, well, it's not like I've seen a lot of deer that are over 300 inches. So maybe it's legit. Maybe maybe somebody got in a wreck and he was in the frickin trailer and got out of the trailer, you know, and then he walked by me. I would be like, you know, I have a hard time, luckiest man alive. Yeah. All right. So, but that brings up the moment that you find out that he's not truly free range. What would you do with him? Okay. I don't care what happens to him. I'd like to keep it, but whatever. But I mean, would you mount him? And then explain to people? I would possibly mount him just for that story of it. But other than that, you know, what's your replica of the cost on that thing? I'm just asking. I probably would mount it too. Just tell you how much a replica would cost on a thing. I don't know. Actually, I'm. Well, I think I would mount it, but I don't cost a lot more if you included the teardrop. It was a 327. Well, the grill's 332. It should help pay for it. And what are the it's 327. Here's the thing that I think that all of us and maybe if I mounted him, he's going in the basement. What do you do not put him next to my other deer? You would not try to. You would make sure that people knew this is the story of this deer. This is not just like what we went and hunted a shed, hunted a Alabama high fence operation. We didn't put out a single post to let anyone believe that those were fair chase animals that we found. Oh, honestly, actually I'd price selling. Well, $3,924 for a replica, but that's not colored. Yeah, but I really honestly, I don't I think once it sunk in, I wouldn't really care. Like it did. That's my point is that I mean, I. It's just like that was kind of cool. You know, I'd be really I probably honestly, I'd be pissed because I'd be like, I feel like I should have a better chance of killing a legit 200 than managing to have a deer get out of a high fence and then walk by. He happened to come by you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'd probably be mad at him. Now let's put it in the scenario. If they get killed him. So let's put it now, let's put it in the real scenario though. That's what mean boy. All right. So you know that that so you've heard. Raising the cage. You've already told you, you've already heard it out there that somewhere five miles away or 10 miles away, a deer got out of a high fence. If you guys see him, let us know. We're trying to find him. We're going to tranquilize him and put him back. Now you're sitting in your stand and here comes that deer. Now what goes to your head? Number one, would you and I have no idea if they did or if they did not offer a reward for tranquilizing them, but I do know that high fence operations where they've gotten out, they have said to people, please let us know. We'll come get him and you know, whatever it is when it's because they got a lot of money and developed and the are invested in those animals. So I'd take and I'd call him. You'd call him. You wouldn't shoot him? I have no desire to kill him. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't accomplish anything for me. Right. If well, if there was a reward, I'm definitely calling them, but I also would be calling them and asking them to give me a tranquilizer dart that I could throw my arrow. Yeah, that'd be sick. That would be sweet. Yeah. I would torch him with a tranquilizer dart. I would consider and they're just going to hand out tranquilizer darts to all these hunters that are around there. It would help them so they don't have to train. You guys are freaking morons. No, I'm not going to do that. No, I wouldn't even have them. You would be shooting each other and tra- look at that war. I'll be back. I would definitely crank you first. Yo. Look at him. Good Lord. I don't think it's a size. If there was a reward, I would be totally okay with if you give me a little bit of a opportunity to shoot it with a tranquilizer arrow. I don't care about the reward. That would be sick. I would do that so fast. Let's say it's a $20,000 reward. Yeah, but I guess- How do you know I'm caring? No, I'm saying that if I got the chance to freaking just shoot one with a tranquilizer arrow, that'd be pretty sick. But if it is like 20 or 30 Gs, I'd just say, okay, I'll shoot one later with a tranquilizer dart. Yeah. That's what I thought. The only thing that I can say is that if the deer came by me and I knew that he came from a high fence, I think I would probably pass as well. I would pray to God that our cameraman is getting into on film. I can say, I held my composure and you'd have to joke or something. I'm pretty sure he's only three. We want to let him go another year or two. I probably wouldn't even be inaccurate or inaccurate either. I would have- I think as soon as I saw him, I would have been doing anything for me. I'd be like, oh, that's a deer now. Let's just say this. I know where you're going next. Let's say that you do that. Let's just say that you pass on a freak and only to find out that that deer has done been captured. No, not three 30. Let's say, let's take this scenario though. Wait, you're saying that it'd be two 330- No, I'm not saying 330, but I'm saying a 250-inch deer or something like that that you let go. But that's almost a hundred-inch difference. I should be able to tell the difference. Realistic, let's just say that the farm owners or whatever the heck you call them have no idea that the deer is out or whatever or they don't care or something like that and they're not going to try and- You could hold it ransom. They're not going to try to get it back and try and tranquilize it or anything. Now, what are you going to do? Because I have some thoughts on that. You're saying that so now there's a deer that they just let him into the free range and- This deer was in a high fence and he's escaped and the owners of the high fence have no desire to go try and track him down or get him back to whatever we got through the other 300-inch deer, whatever he does we don't really care about. So now what are you doing in that scenario? If he does come by or you actively try and kill him, the only thing I'm thinking is what I'm thinking is I would be doing research on what could this deer do to the herd in my area in this deer cause damage. Because if so, I might seek him out and hunt him to kill him for that purpose. That's what I was just going to say is I'm shooting him. If I have the opportunity, I'm shooting him right there because I know dang well the moment the DNR finds out about it too, they're going to want to kill it because they should not be intermingling. They should not be a domestic deer, should not be mating with a wild deer. There's way too many health factors there. However, there's another, there's a flip side to that. It produces huge deer. That you eat- Which I also think is not right. If you know that there's a chance that he's got, if that farm has been tested for CWD and it's come up positive or something like that or I don't know what other diseases that their deer carry, that there's been anything, I would seriously be doing a lot of it. He defeated the purpose of killing it. There's no reason to kill it. If you're going to wait for him to mate after the rut, there's no reason for health reasons kill him. Because he already did damage. If that deer is healthy and he is in our population and he could possibly increase the size of the bucks, why not? I disagree with that 100%. But then don't you think- And I also don't think that's necessarily the only- If they're healthy, they still could pass on diseases that they're healthy with and the wild deer can't handle. I don't know that but I guess you're right. I know. Let's just say that take the health aspect out of it. Let's just say in five years you kill a 280 inch deer. You don't feel like you cheated at all? Yeah, he did cheat because he let a freaking high-fenced deer can mate. I have no- Man, you guys are talking about trying to genetically go back. That's what they do down in Texas though. A lot of those places. You're the one that gave this- You're the one that gave this- This deer bucks in and increasing the genetic size of the deer. Okay. Like I wouldn't feel near as legit about killing a 200 inch deer like that as I would one here where- That ain't fully natural. Messed with it anyway. That's what I would call a hybrid deer. I would feel like a cheater if I killed a big deer a few years later. Like that. Unless it didn't look anything like it, then maybe it'd feel like it was not the same blood in the winter. Well, okay, let's do this then. We have an elk that we almost killed. Okay? He came from an area that a high-fenced operation had gotten damaged or something but never it like not a- wasn't a news thing, wasn't anything about it. It was just word of mouth that a tree's have fallen on his place and some of his elk have gotten out. And there was more freaks in that area than any place I've ever hunted elk. Which is odd. Okay? And we had the opportunity to kill a bull that was not a crazy freak but he was big. Which one? Crown Royal. Okay, but what year did he have been? Could he have been? He would have had to do some serious genetic testing to test him back to that game farm. What year did that happen? I don't know. Years before. But I, so I don't know. The 90s. I have no idea. I don't think I. Never asked. There wasn't any of my business. I didn't know the game farm owner didn't know anything about it but it was within enough miles like I could glass it. Okay, I know, I remember, I know what you're talking about but I think that before that happened there was still huge bulls there too. Yeah. Like gigantic bulls. They're also not. For sure. They're not genetically testing them all the way back to find the one specific deer that they came from. They can, they have different DNA for a domestic deer compared to a wild deer. They don't have to go all the way back. Ten different generations to see if it came from this doe from a high fence. All I'm saying is had we killed that bull, none of us would have been testing nothing. No, but I, but at the same time that's what I'm saying is that's a, I don't think it's a very good argument because before those bulls ever got out of that high fence there was 380, 390, 400 type bulls there before. I agree. And that bull wasn't like, that bull wasn't like he was 440 or something. No, but the, but the, but I've seen bulls there with three main beams and things like that. I remember one. Well, I remember that one. I also remember one with a big club, you know, which is somewhat common but more freaks over there, more, more like seven than eight point sides than I've ever seen anywhere else. And Crown Royal had eight points on one side. I would, I could see where that would be there, a gray area. There's a, there is a possibility that the only reason that he existed to the size that he was, which was in the 370 to 380 kind of range, we believe, looking at video that he could have been an offspring from something in that game farm that got out. But that's not, you also have just as much. I think you had 380 bulls there before any of them got out. I was going to, I think you have just as much chance of him being completely free range as you would him being bred by a, or more. Yeah. But at the same time, if you're looking at it, Iowa, not that it has the same caliber of 330 inch deer running around everywhere. But if you're talking about that, you, you have the large caliber deer already in the area. So if you're introducing another large caliber deer, what's the difference? That's me just being devil's advocate there because I don't agree with it. But you're saying the same thing as far as what the high fences. First 380 inch natural bulls there already. And then you're saying that now there's another 380 inch bull. He has just as good of a chance, if not a better chance of being wild, but there's still a chance he could have been from a high fence. Well, I think there's a difference between introducing 170 inch deer into place where there's already 170 inch deer. Then 330 inch deer. 500 inch spider bull. Yeah. That is the world record. Yeah, I agree. I don't think it's necessarily that relative. Is the spider bull fake then? From according to the research they did that was legit. The spider bull was a free range bull. I don't know deer as well as that or elk as well as I do deer. But to me, he kind of looks like a high fence bull. I don't. I think they did research and like being seen and stuff like that. So he had made it a couple years. He'd been shot multiple times too, Andy. Or shot at. I see where the connection would be made with those two. But at the same time, I do think there's a larger difference in because we don't have 330 inch deer running around every corner. Not that we have 170 inch deer around every single tree either, but there's a significant more amount of them. Yeah, but if we get 180 inch deer from a high fence, get out and breed with some of our deer. I don't think any of us would be near as concerned about that as a 330. Oh, I disagree with you because what you're, this has got nothing to do with the incisors of the antler. It's got to do with where he came from and what you're saying is, and what you were saying was, okay, if he could hurt the herd, it doesn't matter whether he's 180, 108 or 50. No, he said, yeah, but he said though, I had said that originally you need to kill it no matter what because if the high fence people aren't coming to get it, there is a health risk to, we don't really care about him that much, but to the wild deer. So you got to get rid of him. He'd have a lot of people. Otherwise the DNR. Yeah, the DNR is going to go do the same thing. They're going to have to go literally hunt him to kill him to get him out of there for health reasons. Warren had proposed, take health risk completely out of it. Are you leaving it? That's where we're, that's where our transistors, it's not that that's why the size is the only caliber of only difference. Yeah. So let's throw this one in there because I think this is how this happened trail cam photo. What do you mean? Before you're sitting in that stand and he comes walking by, you were sitting at home one day or you got to sell camera and that doesn't change anything. Okay, but you know where he is now. Now are you calling the high fence people to come get him? I'm doing the exact same thing I would have done. Yeah, if I'm going to see if they're trying to get him, if they're not trying to get him, if they're offering, if I figure out they're offering a reward, heck yeah, I'll go get him for you or you guys can come get it, whatever they want. I'm doing, I'm going to handle it the exact same situation as if he were to come walking by and I knew about him. It's no different if it's on a trail camera picture or not. Well except for now you don't have to make a decision. Right there I don't. But I make it the same exact decision either way. So I know, I know dang well if I have a 330 inch deer come walking by me and it's good chance that it's high fence, I'm still shooting it no matter what, probably. And the only time that would change is if I knew that there's, they're wanting to trank it and get it back, then that's the only time I'm not shooting it because I'm, I'm going to know that. I'm going to hopefully and I'll say, okay, hey guys, I know where it's at. Come in here, I just saw him an hour ago, you guys can go find it, whatever. That's the only, the only option I'm seeing where I'm not going to see it. And going off of what we've all talked about in the, in the, if there's a chance that this deer is actually doing more damage than he's going to help, I probably am shooting him. I'm not waiting for them to come tranquilize. There's no help to do. No, what I'm saying is that just because I'm seeing him at this moment, I'm sitting in a tree or whatever. Now if I got a trail camera video or a photo of him, I would maybe call them and say, okay, I just got a picture of him at X place. You guys might want to come look, but if I'm sitting in a stand and that deer comes walking by the, and he's been out 10 months. It's not like he's been the easiest deer to find. So I'm probably shooting him. I'm probably not waiting. There's tons and tons and tons and tons of different. Yeah, I don't sit in areas with it, but that only has going to be a deal where you can be able to just walk up to it and tranquilize. It means it's going to be something where they're praying that. But so plus then you'd have to have let these people be freaking sitting on your place with you. I think it also depends on the time of year or two. Like if it's November and I know every deer in the area is finding those and breeding, probably shoot the freaking thing right there because the chance of him walking another hundred yards and finding the dew and starting to go to town is probably pretty good. Well I think this gentleman shot him on September 60 or the article was September 16th. So I don't know when he shot him and I believe he shot him with a crossbow. I'd be curious to know if that deer got on a pattern like the wild deer, you know, if he was going out into beans or something every night and if he was able to have him pattern pretty good. I don't know. I just think that it's pretty freaking crazy to think that. And see so that comes back to do you think that there is I would I don't know when the new world record, non-typical world record, what year was that killed? I think two years ago. Yeah, twenty one twenty nineteen or twenty. But my point is is that how many people knew of that deer and how many deer twenty nineteen. So how many deer are out there that are capable of getting that size that someone doesn't know they exist anymore. You see what I'm saying that there's so many trail cameras, so many people driving around, so many people paying attention internet and all the social media so that if someone sees it and they don't even know deer, they're not a deer hunter and they post a picture of it because it's in a park, you know, that people recognize all everyone figures out where it is. You know, what's your point? My point is is that is it possible to be sitting in a stand in a three hundred inch deer or two hundred and fifty inch deer comes by you that you don't know exists wild. Yeah. You have no idea. Yes. I think that's very possible. You think it is? I mean, I think I don't know. I think there's someone that knows it. Yeah, the neighbor may know. I would bet that there's even deer that are so that caliber that nobody knows. Think? I think it may be the only place to think you'd have that would be Canada. I think you could find it would be a lot harder in a place like Iowa because there's just so many in my, I think there's just the population is very high, but I think that there's plenty of areas where you might see, we've seen deer that'll travel four to five miles consistently just to move around and we've also seen deer that hardly even leave a two hundred yard area 90% of the time, but we know they're there. So what's there to say that there's a certain piece that you can't hunt? You don't know. Like nobody can hunt it. And there's a 15, 20 acre block of timber that they live right there in that core area and they're huge and nobody would ever know. I don't know. I just think that we've now reached an age where I'm not saying there isn't one or two. It's going to be very few. There will be. I would think it's common. That's for sure. It'd be interesting to me over the next say 10 years that I can say because I know I think I'm going to live at least that long. 20 might be pushing it. But 10 years is to say what? When will there be another world record deer killed and nobody has a trail camera photo of them from prior? Did that just happen like a year or two ago with the one that got hit on the side of the road? There's deer that hit on the bottom. I don't think that'll ever happen again. Unless it's out of Canada. That's the only place I think that might happen. I think that's that Canada is almost less expected. They bait. The majority of their large deer are canned. They got a lot of air that's so big and there's not. How many of those guys are actually killing deer that aren't anywhere near a bait? I think I don't know. I mean I don't think it's fair. A lot of guys I think are. I think there are quite a few guys that drive the roads. I get the theory of how vast it is but at the same time where they're primarily hunting. What I'm telling you though is then you're going to have some dude that like that was saying they're just driving by in this spot and they just caught him at the right time when he's with a doe or whatever and they get a shot at him in a new world record. Yeah. Because I think if you're saying the Midwest and everything though I think those days I don't think you'll ever see that again. I'd be really shocked. I mean that'd be cool. I would like that to think that that could still happen but I don't think so. See I'd like to get someone on here that knows world records a little more because at one point the top 10 non-typical world records only like four of them had been killed by hunters and none of them had been killed following a doe. They felt like all of them were inferior deer kind of thing that they had a genetic deficiency or an over something or whatever and they didn't develop and so they become they don't want to be around other deer so you don't see them in a herd out in the field at 4.30 or 5 o'clock in the evening right before dark you don't see them in your apple orchard or whatever because there's other deer there and so they had become like really standoffish and that's why they grew the way they did. So there was something abnormal to them as well to push them to 250 or 300 inches or whatever. And so I'd love to know if that I haven't researched recently enough to see if that has changed because at that time a lot of those deer were unknown. They'd been hit by trains they'd been hit by cars you know. How do you hit by train and not demolish their antlers? The hole in the horn buck was hit by a train and he was laying right off of the train track and they finally a guy finally figured it out and I'll probably get part of the story wrong but the gentleman that solved the hole in the horn apparently was a guy sitting it down at a barber shop and looked down at a magazine and was like yeah I was there when they found that deer and they went and interviewed him and he was because they the hole in the horn there's a perfect hole like that big right through one of his drop times and so they all there was all this like it was a 22 hole it was this it was that he said no it's a from a chain link fence and they got a chain link fence and slipped it through the hole and it was absolutely perfect and he said is because it was soft it was his antlers still soft and when they were trying to pull him out of the ditch that he was in someone ran the fence through his horn and that put the hole in it. It's crazy. I wonder if cameras specifically sell cams I know this is kind of a topic we've already discussed but if that will change the course of deer getting to that caliber because I think that it gives hunters such a advantage such an advantage that they I guess you could argue it either way either one say that now people aren't they're passing more deer because they see this one buck on their cell cam all the time and they think they're going to be able to kill him or to that it gives them the ability to be a much more effective hunter and that they're killing some of these deer before they're ever able to get to the be able to be a world record status. I don't know it's definitely evolved. I mean I think that I've seen there's more management going on of the white tail deer than ever before only because I mean I've lived through enough generations of it now to see where used to you know the states didn't offer things like point restrictions and widths restrictions and and now they're doing it so they're managing their deer as well as the people are and more and more people like you said maybe a guy is now maybe he's more willing because he's got a photo that says oh there's a big deer on my place or around my place I won't shoot this deer or that deer when normally he would go out and say that Brown it's down. That would last that would be the really interesting question is what is what was the and I don't think it's even possible to answer this what was the average age of world records. Yeah I don't know. Both typical and non-typical is it are they having to get to six years old or some of them. No I had stupid freaks and they're freaking three. Well I know the Milo Hansen buck that they they believed he was three or four years old. Yeah I'll leave or new though. I think if you go read about it it will tell you that he was either a three year old or a four year old deer. I want to say that they believed he was three. Yeah but I don't know if they did cement him. I don't know. I've pretty well just theory on that too that I think makes a lot of sense. He says that he thinks the next typical world record is going to be a four year old because he thinks that anytime they get to like five and six they throw too much junk. You know so he thinks it'll be a super freak four year old that's just got everything to do it. The Milo Hansen buck if that that would fit that. I think they should start requiring that to age them. Yeah not a question. I don't even ask people all that much anymore. Like how old do you think it was because it's so could be so many different answers that I don't ask how old you think it is anymore unless you have unless you're sending them in it's not like you have to be rich to send them in. What is it 20 bucks a tooth or something? Yeah and if you send me a few teeth for that. Yeah no I wonder when we're supposed to get ours back. April. But my point that is it's just there's way too many variables. There's too many different sizes of bodies and different subspecies and this and that to be able to tell them exactly oh this is a three or four year old deer. Like that Milo Hansen one I wouldn't believe it's three or four until they told me that they tested it was three or four. Just because there's no way to know. There's no I mean you can get close depending on if you have all their antlers and everything but who's to say you didn't miss a year you know. All I can tell you is what I've read. Yeah no I agree. I don't know whether that is truthful or not or how truthful it is. Like if you want to open up a can of worms talk about the runpala buck. We need to that one's BS. We need to not even know that one so it is I mean if you're going to. It's thirty some inches wide. And the guy wasn't let was when letting anybody else x-ray the rack or do anything to validate that it's true. So I think that if you're going to go to that extent to make sure that nobody validates that it's true then you're obviously just lying. So it's not in the books then. No. Good. Anyways though I think that we need we need more money for people like QDM or somebody to do some studies where they tag deer as fawns you know and then we're able to see when they get to five and hunters kill them. One how old did the hunter think that they were. Two what it's a mental manual I agent get three what is the molar method get like there would there's so many more studies that we could do to learn about deer. I mean that's what I'll do I'll become a scientist. I think a lot of that is happening. The bio earlier in Texas I think in Texas they're doing a bunch of that. Yeah. Well I need to look and I think there's there's some guys out there maybe we can get them on the market like I know that I saw one study from somewhere in I want to say Mississippi or something and they call it a deer to look at their home range and everything and they they determined during the summer that the deer went two and a half miles to a new home range because there was a bean field. Well I would like to see something like that here in Iowa because a deer has 50 different bean fields if they go two and a half miles here and corn and alfalfa and probably anything else they want so I'd be it'd be really interesting to see on a regional basis how these deer travel and how far they're going and what's their home range size. I think obviously you're gonna have some variance but. Yeah I don't I mean the deer that I would tell you no man what was the point I mean I physically saw him in one day I would have to map that out I it's two miles two miles to be on one side of the river and then across the river and he's at my house in the morning and then he's at the end of the other right but they were saying this deer went to a bean field because that was the only food source right no mad probably walked through five different bean fields that day he just went for a walk yeah but I'd also see juice because juice didn't go very far old gypsy the buck that we had go for four and a half miles hung out but he knew him for months and then you could find him again four and a half miles back home and then Warren find just freaking antler in that same spot so that deer went that's wild but he was in but he wasn't doing it wasn't going back and forth he was moving to the fall rain is it not what they said though I'd have to read the whole thing I think it just moved two and a half miles to live there I would but it was like National Forest type stuff so that's what they're saying that they believe the deer moved here because there was because of the veals yeah food yeah alright well I think that we have nailed a new subject we'd love to hear from you guys and what your thoughts are interesting everybody let us know what your thoughts we should put up a poll on this one we will and say what do you think 332 inches or 232 inches and he comes walking by you what are you doing how are you handling the situation because it's not an easy there's a lot of variables it's 327 inches okay I don't know where you keep coming up 332 because 327 is the one that world record that's what this one is no that's so it's 330 so I don't know where you keep coming up with 327 when it's 332 I keep trying to tell you so he's only seven inch difference you see this here right here what there's only seven inch difference with gross it was like almost ten or something I can't remember oh you want to know it's crazy that's freaking wild deer the world record grossed within like an inch or two of my bowl yeah I know that's what I was thinking of when you said that this is me off now I gotta go kill a bigger one good lord whatever anything else that you want to add other than you were wrong on the score you'll be a bad analogy not bad alright alright guys well thanks again for joining us on the raised hunting podcast and as always we knew we would bring you something that was somewhat controversial do we have a definitive answer the answer is no we have a definitive opinion that we all expressed here and I think they're pretty much the same but there's not a there's not a cut and dry this is what you can or can't do so with that please continue to share with your friends that the raised hunting podcast is out there please leave your reviews we love the fact that you guys are doing that it's helping the podcast grow and and don't forget to send in your topics because just like Devin who sent he didn't send this one in he just brought it up which made it a good topic for us to you so appreciate you guys and we will see you next time this is the rate raise time we might even see you at spring thunder before you hear our next podcast that could be the case which when this comes out will be that Friday yep yep so if you're hearing this I'm pretty sure you have like a couple days to figure out your registration you better go quick you better go by that time you better get our going so it's already three quarters full yeah so if you're hearing this and you still haven't signed up you're just probably out of luck but sign up here you should try to sign up because maybe we'll get you an extra spot I don't know yeah I don't know we'll do what we can to get everyone in that's it see it's spring thunder y'all later peace