Old School Hunting vs New Spice & Is Turkey Reaping Ethical

All right guys, we'll welcome back to the raise, Tony podcast and as usual, I'm off. I'm on my thing, please. I'm not on it. Somebody was. I move my feet. It was you. Why do you do that? You blame us for everything. And then the moment, why didn't you feel anything under my foot? We have your foot. You moved your foot. You moved your foot and his cord went loose. Okay. This is what fathers do. They just blame everybody else. And then they didn't do anything. This is what fathers do. They put up this. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. A cowboy and hold my last with the whole time. So you guys don't step on me. Well, you ain't a very good cowboy because they don't call it a last. Sometimes today we're going to do a podcast, but we can't if we can ever get them to shut up, which is probably not going to happen anytime soon. Isn't the whole point for us to talk? You're goofy. I understand it's a cool cup, but I don't know that drinking out of the side of your mouth to drink out of the cup makes it any cooler. I got a microphone in my way. Okay, because it keeps us so cold. It doesn't work. Then we'll get it. So welcome back to the Raise Tuning podcast, folks. And we're glad you're here. And as always, I am being joined by a two very special guests, today more special than normal. So, but at the same time, we want to thank you guys again. You guys are unbelievable following instruction. I love it. You guys do extraordinary work. Been passing the podcast on to other people. And then also leaving reviews. We got a one review here. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but a big shout out to BoHUNNER101715. Appreciate that five star review, my friend. And hopefully you're listening to this one because today we're going to go a little more in depth on the Turkey situation. We've also had quite a few people reach out through the website. Oh yeah. And I would, I don't know if you reach out to the website so we don't shout you out, but the people that have reached out to the website, you know who you are. And we appreciate you as well. But if you want us to shout you out from that, that aspect as well, just make sure you throw it in there and say, hey, here's a podcast topic. I'd love to be shouted out. Anyways, we appreciate you. Shout it out. That's not even correct English. So, what do you say? That you had been... I'd like to be shout out. No, I would like to be... Shout it out. Point it out or brought... I'd love for you to give you a shout out. Okay, whatever. That made more sense. Okay, what we're gonna try to do today is we're gonna go a little more in depth on the Turkey situation strategically or technically, we're going to be working about... Technically, this is an English show. This is an English podcast. Talking about decoys. And some different variations that we do with decoys. And then what has become a controversial topic and that the use of decoys when it comes to reaping turkeys. And if you're not familiar with reaping turkeys, stay tuned because we're gonna talk about it. All right, so who wants to go first? Because I love decoys. I think we can start with the different types of hunting, but what we prefer. So, like being... I just went in hunted Alabama. Shoot a miniface. Well, okay. We've hunted a lot. You've hunted Florida. Warren's hunted Nebraska, Idaho, Montana, for tur... Birds, like we've hunted quite a few different places. And I would say your majority or your normal, I guess the majority of people are either using decoys. And I would say as long as it's legal, because like Alabama, first 10 days can't use it. But as long as it's legal, I think the majority of people enjoy using a decoy, gives them a little extra. Where it comes into play of the different kinds would be sitting in a blind, sitting maybe having brush in front of you or something. Or just against flat out a tree, nothing in front of you. So, what, out of those, let's just assume that you are using decoys, or maybe explain why you wouldn't in a certain situation. Which one do you prefer? That's easy for me, but if you want to answer that question, you can. So, what was the question here? That was a long winded question. Which way do you prefer to hunt turks? Assuming you're using decoys, do you want to use, do you sit against a tree? Do you sit with some form of cover in front of you? Do you sit in a blind? Those are like your three main, there's probably others, but those are your main ones that people are doing. Well, I think. And I'm not including reaping right now. I like, I haven't done it a lot, but I like sitting outside of a blind. Because I think it's a totally different, it's amazing how different it is when you don't have the blind there. How different, I guess the perspective is, or how it feels, but I think with bow hunting, it's just, it's really hard to do it without, especially when we're filming and everything, without a blind. Without having something to cover, yeah. But I've said that for a long time, and I've tried once or twice, I'd really like to shoot one with a bow with no blind. I've seen some other guys do it, I had one that I should have killed, but when I came to full draw, I didn't see a limb above me, and I hit that limb, and then it was just a total debacle, and I busted him. Tobacco? De-bacle. It is a debacle. He said, tobacco. Yeah, it's the debacle. No, it's D with a D. D. Oh, really? De-bacle, right? Yeah. Now I'm questioning it. No, because tobacco is like the tabernacle choir or something, you're not even gonna get it right. Who knows what that is? Right, but do-bacle is the D. De-bacle. De-bacle. That's a shirt. I think it's a T. I'm with Warren. I called it, technically, so you can call it a debacle. It is debacle, I promise you. You don't even need to, I don't even spell it for you. You can't spell debacle. DEBACLE. With a D. Oh! Interesting. Okay, anyways- This is an English class today. All right. Okay, so I got into a De-bacle. I don't like that word anymore. Yeah, me either. I'm just gonna go with tobacco. So anyway, doesn't it debacle after that? And- Just change the English language because I feel like it. Well, you guys knew what I meant, right? You meant what I knew. Anyways, I've shot a couple of the shotgun. Just call them in like that. I would- one of the next things I would like to try is I'd like to do outside the blind, no decoy, and try to call them in like elk. You know, like I have a caller behind you. I think that'd be cool. So I don't find that- it's when you add a bow or doing it some form of where you gotta move. It's because there's movement- Because there's movement- Because there's movement- Right when they get there. And I think that number one, doing it outside of a blind, actually- I don't have permission to share his name, but I have a buddy that killed on last year just sitting against a tree with his bow. And I think that the hardest part- if you can use a decoy, then you can get them to- At least as long as they're strutting, as long as you can sit still for a minute, let them strut and when they turn around or something and their heads behind their fan get to full draw. The issue I've always thought about with that because I haven't actually done it yet would be like in a blind. You have a bird coming in and you're on your chair or whatever and you can get down and you move your chair if you have to or whatever, you can move a little bit. I'm not about to sit on my freaking knees for two or three hours waiting on a bird to come in. So what is your- like how are you going to sit against a tree and then just okay I hear a bird close maybe and then get on your knees and wait or are you just training to shoot from your butt? That's a- If that's a case though, you can't sit with the tree on your background. So like if you're against the tree and you're on the side of it so that like for me, tree would be right behind me and I'm left handed then when they come in then what am I going to- Come from your right, let's come. Then I'm still a wettin. Well then like there's nothing behind me. So more trees behind you. Even if there is more- I mean unless there's one like right here it's still going to look like a silhouette somewhat. They're going to see me sticking out on that tree. You could always cut a limb or two and stick them in the ground. I don't think they would as long as you don't move. I don't think they'd care. What about are you using a decoy? Yeah I would use a decoy. Well then you just solely for- The decoy if you need it. I would love to just call it in but for my first time doing it I would like to do it with a decoy to distract them enough to at least get them to strut right there because that's what's going to give me the opportunity to draw. Yeah. And after I got that under my belt if I did I would try it without a decoy just for the challenge but I think now that one I would say I'm sure there's guys out there that do it or somebody's going to message in and say they've done it or something. Done one. Sad out. Probably sad with a bow without a decoy. That like props to you. If you do it once I'm still going to give you props maybe it was a fluke but if you're doing it like if that's how you turkey hunt we need to learn something from them because that would be- You know what else I'd like to shoot one huh? You know what else I'd like to shoot one. With a whopper chopper. Yeah. Let's see. I'd say given out of a tree stand. See I keep trying to- I almost did it. I can tell you though that you do- Not like fall where they just come walking all that in the spring like have my decoy set up below me. And you know how busted you're going to get? What's different than sitting on the ground? Because I think they're even more afraid of the stuff that's- they're constantly watching for hawks and eagles and things swoop down on them from the time they're little tiny chicks they're scared of death. Okay. Just out of curiosity. Not that it can't be done but- I kind of understand why you're saying that but at the same time I want to question why in the world do you want to sit in a tree stand and shoot a turkey? I don't know. This is really cool. I don't know. He's trying to make it harder when you don't need it any harder than it already is. I don't know. I feel like he'd be above him enough that he wouldn't pay attention. I'd tell he's referring to you specifically. That's what he was just saying. Oh I know. It's already hard so what's the difference when I make it a little harder? But tree stand is just not- Logic does that make? Not the way to go. Okay. You question friends. Your preference would be what? You're going to- Right now, tomorrow's- you're going to Turkey on the morning. Are you taking a blind? Are you going to sit against a tree? You taking decoys? You're not taking decoys? Right now I'm taking a blind and decoys. Okay. Maybe after I killed one especially if I could whopper dropper one. And I would maybe get a little more creative. Especially if you got two tags. Yeah. Like I- We need two more. When we go out west, I'm probably- I'm not carrying a blind and decoys all over. Yeah. The mountains and so I'll probably just use a shotgun or just sitting next to a tree. Because I don't want to carry all that stuff. I was just showing Warren the other day that I want to try. It would work great for a shotgun. And it would work great for like down- like anybody trying to get their kids involved that do want to run in gun like that where they sit against a tree. The premost they made there that like stakeout thing. Yeah, stakeout blind. Yeah, stakeout blind but see through to now. So it's basically like your- Rest your shell kind of like- Like you when you used to buy like the rolls or whatever. Like the mesh and you could put that in front of you. It's nice. You can get yourself covered. But now like for Wyoming when we go do that. Because I don't want to carry a blind either. I'm not doing that. Screw that. But that thing's tiny. Nick carry it. So like or like yeah if we have Nick with us we know we better cover him up pretty good. Otherwise we're going to get busted left and right. So I'll go here Nick and throw the stakeout. No, I'm totally kidding. Nick actually did really good singing against a tree. But that thing would be great for one new people or like getting your kids involved. Two I want I really really want to try it. I know it would work great for my shotgun sitting there. I don't know how great. Because I think my riser would be above the- It'd be a shark issue with it. And it's triangle windows so I don't know. But that would be an odd- That would be something I kind of want to try even in Iowa here to not have to- Alright. Do I get to answer this question? Yeah I haven't even answered myself. So let's answer for that. We all know this- We'll just grab a blind and a couple decoys in order to go sit in the blind and be patient because they will show up eventually. And it will work because it does and he's proven it time and time again. But he doesn't want to throw any spice into it. Yeah no I did all the spicy stuff before and it sucks. How many do you shoot up a tree stand? Done. Well I shut- shut- He's a tree stand but then in the fall. That's too spicy. So he's not that spicy. No never in the spring. But I've done the no turkey thing you ever did. The on purpose? Or like the craziest encounter you ever had. Yeah. Me and on purpose were like just it happened. Because actually now I think I can think of ours. I can think. Mine and yours? Uh huh. I can think of the couple yeah as you say mine's- But like the very first bird I shot with my bow. That was two and a half miles into the national forest in Montana. What is one of the gold? No blind. Why? Because I had to find turkeys. I'm not a shotgun so now I want to try this bow on the animal. Wait. No blind. No blind. Decoys? I had one decoy. Okay. I just- With a hand? Fold up one. No it was a Jake. I can't remember who came out with like it was like a you know the styrofoam stuff that like you could roll it away nothing. Light weight less than this cup. And you're telling me right now I'm not I can tell you how it is. No I heard them the night before I put my set my tent and then when I was setting my tent I thought I heard a turkey gobble. I had found a place that was a cannon. You used a cannon in the woods for turkeys? Yeah. Oh yeah I drove five and a half hours. Oh my gosh. Because it was the only place- It's driving I don't mind the fact that you okay. Oh it was the only place to end in Montana where you could get a second tag. The whole state wasn't two tags and so- Oh so they had sections that were two tags? Mm-hmm and this was a two tag area so I drove all the way over to the Custer National Forest down by Ashland. Broadest that area. Geez don't get away spots. Well it's not like- Oh man they're gonna go turkey hunt two and a half miles back. They're gonna be within two hours or maybe we'll hop up there. That's a different state. We'll say eight or eight podcasts better. The first thing that I found was a burn area. I stopped at the National Forest Place they told me where the burn area was. Next thing I found was all the Minnesota hunters that had come over. They were everywhere and so I just kept driving until I wasn't around anyone. Now it's gonna be all the raised hunting podcast listeners. That's right and so I found a place to put my tent. I was just- It was gonna camp there no matter what and I thought as I set my tent up I was like I couldn't be that lucky. I think I just heard turkey gobble and so I stopped and then I started walking a little bit and I heard him again. I'm like that is a turkey so I took off just to go see. I didn't have my bow didn't have anything and it was maybe 45 minutes before dark and I got over and I kind of had an idea where he was roosted at. I was like this is awesome. Oh so you- So I had turkey. So I had turkey. I was planning on hunting next morning. Well he was so loud in the tree that I couldn't sleep that night because he was gobbling the entire night. He did not put you to sleep. Because it was fun at first and then at about midnight or one o'clock and he got to remember in the summer time I mean in the spring time like that out there it's daylight at like 445. It was legal shooting light. Do they- Do they uh- Do you check he's actually in lead's killing? They usually do. I know they have to at some point but I've had birds when you find that bird that gobbles all night. I just heard what you said in my head. What did you say? You saw as a vengeance killing as well as. Kind of. I will say this and I hadn't even- this was just a tip that I thought of. Every bird that I've ever had that gobbled that crazy like all like I heard him in the evening and he wouldn't stop and I left him. Shout out. And then the next morning they were still doing the same kill them all. Oh really? I thought you were going to say the moment I touched the ground. The bird in Idaho. I mean he was freaking mom. That thing was possessed. Yeah he was going nuts and he came in like that. And so you killed him next to a tree with your bow. So I got over there and I got set up and then it turned out there was more than one. I didn't know that at the time. So I set my decoy and I'm on a hill. There's nothing flat about this. I'm on this hillside. I set my decoy up below me about 15 yards to my left because I'm a right handed shooter and I was like alright I'm set man and I made a couple calls and he's got- This is before darker. No this is in the next morning. Right. Yeah I got set up before daylight. Okay so they were still roosted. They were still roosted and then but- And how far? 100 yards. Yeah maybe 100 yards. Because of the way the terrain laid I was pretty close. And next thing I know though there's a bird gobble below me and then I thought I heard one above me. And then it just got mixed up. I didn't know where anyone was at and I thought I lost them. And I'm sitting there and I'm like gosh I don't know what to do and all of a sudden I hear- Pfft- I'm like oh man he's- And I had a little bit of netting I put on the tree in front of me because I expected him to come up the hill and the decoys to my left like on a little saddle. I was like this is perfect. So I'm hearing this and I can't figure out where it is but I'm outside of the blind so I can't just look. So I'm like where and then I hear a rock roll behind me and it goes rolling down the hill and I was like it's freaking right here beside me. And I like trying to look as best I can and I finally get just enough of a glance to see the part of a fan. And he's walking right behind me. He walks probably within three or four yards of me. And I just stayed there like this looking this way and just like I hope he sees he's got to see the decoy that's got to be what he's doing. And then waited and waited and waited until I saw him come out and then he's walking straight away and he's going toward the decoy and I turned like that and came to full draw. And right as I did he still saw me somehow or he heard something and he popped out of a strut just for a second or like partially out of the strut but at that point I was too late. I shot that sucker. I think and maybe you guys will agree. What's that? When I went to call mom it wasn't even five o'clock yet. It was like 4.55 and I was like well I better not call it. You know I was super excited. Yeah good job. Long pack out. One of the worst back things. That's a flip-off. That had his sat phone. Yeah. That's a flip-off. Hey man. I think one of the worst he wouldn't have said hey mom. Well you know the math at least I'd hope not. The worst feelings in hunting is when you hear an animal it could be close but in whatever position that you're in and you can't look. Right. And you know they're there and like waiting. That situation I don't know if it'd be worse or better because you're like okay pretty logically it's probably going to be coming in so just be patient and you'll come in your sight. But in like situations where I can't move on a deer or something I hate being able to hear them right behind me and not being able to look. Oh yeah. He's like so uncomfortable. We got to convince yourself that he doesn't see you. Yeah. You know because I mean I could hear him walking. I mean you for those of you that haven't turkey hunted enough yet to hear one strutting when those wings are rubbing the ground and he's right behind you. I mean like it sounded like he was like gonna like he was gonna hit me. Or if you do turkey hunt a lot pay attention to that because it took I don't know how long it was you had told me. I mean I guess I kind of had an idea of what like drumming or spitting was but I never thought that unless you actually pay especially drumming unless you actually know what the sound is or you're listening for it you don't really. You may hear it not know you don't think anything of it but then once you hear it the first time then you start like every bird that comes in and it's really cool. You feel it. Yeah. Yeah it's really cool. That's something to look out for. So anyhow that started my so that's where I was going with the reason that I like the blind the reason I like the decoys the reason I like motion in my decoys is because those little suckers have won so many times when I was doing everything else that I was trying to even the playing field. I mean still to this day how many turkeys do we have that walk out and go I'm not going over there. I mean it doesn't matter for you you're gonna kill him eventually anyways. Well that's because I figured I've learned that. More birds there's no there's no even feel even play a field for a bird anymore for you. I would say if there's a bird in the area he's gonna die if you want to die. No there's still the three the usually the three at the house. There's always three at the house and those are usually the hardest three birds to kill. And you do though. After mom's killed one after the first week. After the first week. I would say I would honestly say the first week it's not that fair. Like if we really think about it like if you put a pen and paper especially last year I'll bet it was that saw the decoy. 75% that came in. I don't know I just was in Nebraska. Well we've killed how many in a row. Yeah I killed 11. 11 in three days. No 11 in a week. Well that's not true. Because we went to Nebraska first and that's where three of them came from. So then the next eight came all in five days eight of them in a row. And so how many. He like he killed the one with for Joey that I couldn't get to come in and then he killed that and then turned around was it that even one was definitely a patient's one. Oh 100% I was not in for. I know. Was it that night that you took me and we reaped the other one. There's next morning. Yeah so. And then Alissa's was that week there in the morning. Nick's was about sick. Second day. I'm pretty sure mine was the first day. Yours was the. First morning. We have a pretty cool show coming out for that. That was only there's only one reaped in there. One reaped is. Yeah that's the one that he showed. There's two reaps but I didn't get a shot on them on mine. That was all you should have killed. Yeah that was I shot mine. Drove we're driving back to dad's house and I'm like dad there's two Tom's right there and they're on your property. He goes yeah but we got to get your bird up there. I said no no no no. Get your freaking bow and grab the decoy and we're going out film. And so I just stood behind a tree while he crawled up to him and they came in the right way but that's when dad was. He's still messing with the shoulder. Shoulder. Good draw. And they took they came in such screwed up position that it was like even if you had a fully healthy shoulder it would have been difficult but they came in. Yeah I if it almost worked. So anyhow but I mean there's still I would you say it works every time. I just came from Nebraska where thirty four turkeys or forty five turkeys came out of the timber. Eleven of them came straight to the decoy just like they were supposed to. Thirty four of them didn't have any part of it. And that included the big Tom's big Tom stayed with their hands over on the other side. So it doesn't always it ain't no slam dunk. I said seventy five percent. Okay. Not a hundred. Well I don't have an answer for my own question because if I'm thinking about going out tomorrow morning not not saying it's turkey season but in that theoretical I don't I really really really really really want to try that stake out blind just against a tree because it's so simple and I don't want to carry a blind in. But at the same time I'm like you especially if I have to have Joey he's going to try to do this bow I'm like I'm not I'm not in the mode to probably not use a blind. So I guess now I can probably answer it. I'm going to have to use a blind for the first bird or two use a blind and decoys. Well I will say though turkeys are the one animal that I would pick up a shotgun in a hurry. I don't mind doing anything because you still got to get them close they still got to do everything right and and they can still charge ya. Yeah and I still and I still enjoy shooting them with a shotgun. So you know I don't mind. Alright so we've done like what we'd be doing right now if there's one version of type of hunting a turkey maybe you've already done it. I know you probably have a couple you've kind of touched on what would be one thing that you would do right now. I would like to try. I think we start with maybe we should start with setting up or end with the setting up your decoys for a bow hunt because I think it's important to understand how to set them up. Yeah. So another one is I mean we can start with a shotgun guy no decoy. You know what what are you doing there? What is the goal? The goal is to get as close to that roostree as possible. So we just totally ignored what my question was but it's okay. Well what is the question? Let's talk about that dad. Let's talk about what which one you want to do first. Shotguns. I could answer your question. What? For me honestly it's I'm still trying to accomplish. I think you guys are at a stage that is above what I am as far as like you have conquered sitting in a blind and using decoys and getting turkeys come in. Where there's other people that maybe they haven't gotten to that point where they've really figured them out yet. And then there's people like myself where I have accomplished that part but I can't kill them to save my life. I can hit them. I can't kill them. And so for me like that's kind of the next thing first is I want to figure out a way for Warren to be able to kill them first. Go two for two and I will with your bow. Yeah like get on a little bit of a streak and then I can get adventurous. I support that and it's going to either be whopper choppers or a hinge. That's what I'm going to do. Okay. Yeah you've explained your hinge theory or a back or a back tension one too. I just want to sit against a tree. I still don't know what the question is. If you could pick something like some different version of what your go to is. Oh he's seeing adventuring out. Yeah. But I said you may have already probably tried. No the one that I would like to do and I saw a guy do it last year. Camera man behind you. Like maybe he's in a blind and you're sitting outside the blind and you shoot the dirt like a ghillie suit. Yeah. Laying right there with him. Yeah. You know and then you pop up and with your bow. Oh yeah. How do you ever get away with that? I watched someone do it last year. I won't mention his name but you know him. He popped up. Yeah he sat right up. Recurve. No he had a compound. That's their initials. L.M. He's not he doesn't live around here. He's in the industry. Yeah. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. It's an awesome video. It's awesome. He did a good job. My hat's off to him. Well I definitely would say that mine would be I'll probably do it with a bow at some point just to try it. But I just would like and I'm not saying that it's crazy hard but put just a decore two out and sit against a tree with I wouldn't put a camera guy in a blindie there. Make him sit against a tree like right behind me right next to me. Let's do it. If you're with me hard but if you're many with a spot and stocked one. I've talked to some people. I've seen people do that. Oh my gosh. Well I've I killed a couple with my shotgun. I know I know. I want my bow but I mean I could have shot him with my bow. Me and Dad almost did it one day. You remember the one down I don't want to say the name. We don't hunt it anymore. We're a little older lady. Oh yeah. And we there was birds. There was two fields and there was one ditch going down the center of it and they were strutting in the back corner of it. And so we were just going to slide down the ditch because it's deep and so they wouldn't know and then just pop up like with a fan or something. I bet if we would have done that right that would have been a great situation to by the time we got there they were already moved out of the field. But if you could have caught him at the right time you could sneak up that ditch and then if you just really slowly got to where you could just barely see over the thing you could shoot him right there. Cedar trees are so much and they do. Yeah but not there in loafing time. Yeah but there are just so good too. Yeah but loafing time they're just sitting underneath those cedars and I've walked up on them and they're just strutting around doing nothing. So for the guy that let's we can do shotgun you're you're I guess is it really I mean you'd set it up maybe a little different if you're using a blind or just sitting against a tree but well I mean I think I'm sitting against a tree. If you start without it assuming they're not using a decoy. Yep. Because you want good cover because that bird's come and looking for what he hears. Yep. So he's going to key in on where that where where he thinks meaning what typically happens now is we call until they and then they see the decoy now they oh there's who I thought I heard that won't happen now. Even in that situation you can call a little bit because they have a decoy for reference. For sure. But if you got like if you have a bird coming in you have no decoys or anything be quiet. Yeah you won't. Don't say anything because you're they're going to look right at you. Yeah they're going to pick you. Unless unless you're doing it to get their head to pop up so you can shoot them real quick and that's it. But other than that calling's got to be less less often more effective. I mean you're depending on your calling now. And so then understanding that you know if a guy or gal is going to do that your calling has got to be better than just the average you know. Does that even really come to the calling though or is that more because I feel there's some situations where it wouldn't matter how good you call and they'll come in and they get to 50 yards and they can't see anything and they're still going to hang up. Oh yeah. I think that might be like a how you're calling like volume in which you're part of that's the amount too. I think. The amount of calls that you've thrown out there. Part of that though could be pressure that the birds been through you know whether years before or during you know because but one of the things that I relied on a lot when I hunted without a blind was scratching the leaves and I don't do that near as much now that I find when I'm in a blind I just don't I've found that I don't I forget that you can still do that in the blind is probably not as loud you probably need to do it louder but I used to do it a lot. I also used to do a lot of wing flapping. You know that I carried a wing for a while you can also just bang your hand against your pants you know like on the loose part of your pants. Well we saw plenty of that turkey calling contest. Yeah those guys need a little practice. I do that with what go when I'm sitting in a blind for deer. If I'm rattling I rattle on the ground. Oh yeah. I get the leaves within everything too. But and then the other thing that becomes critical in that is a choke for your shotgun making sure that you got that gun pattern the way you want to because typically don't do it me and Joey did. Yeah you want to make sure you shoot the shotgun and no one I'm referring to there for anybody that doesn't know Joey killed his first bird last year and we shot a shotgun but we didn't like go get a special choke or anything and we definitely didn't get the right loads because at 10 yards or eight yards he shot his bird aim for the head covered the entire body. Absolutely. What do you got hit by a buckshot. Yeah that was not a. Yeah that would not have been good at 30 yards he probably wouldn't have killed that dirt. That's a good thing they came close. Okay so there's that's number one that's guy you know that's the setup of you're going to go out and you're going to hunt just by using calls and you know and that's where I would tell you that a lot of people my age are older that's probably where they started. All these decoys weren't around all the blinds weren't around and things like that and so one of the hugest inventions way back when was the vest. Oh yeah. Turkey vest man it makes all the difference in the world because you had all your stuff kind of conveniently where you needed it and then that was the hugest invention. It was it was it like revolutionized turkey season for me because it put everything organized and it gave me a dry butt because they had a seat in it and then I could fold it up and also you could put your turkey in it and haul them out. So for the guy that is or girl either starting or just looking to get into turkey hunting maybe that's that's probably going to be your it might be your most difficult way to hunt them but you're easiest to get into it. As long as you have some camo or something to cover you up and then if you can borrow a shotgun or you got a shotgun or something and then a call. I mean as long as you're pretty sufficient with it you get away with one call it'd be nice to have more but that's probably one thing you could touch on to with turkeys it's a lot different than deer is your camo does matter because they see colors. Yeah. Yeah. But now remember if one wins you you know then you've had a really bad day. Yeah. Yeah. That's just not a thing. So that would be the cheapest option to get started with and probably the most difficult to learn in my opinion maybe you guys disagree with that but I think that if you don't know a bird well enough it's going to be very hard to call them in without anything. I think you'd still get good interactions. Yeah. There's some birds that I think you get good encounters maybe killing them could be a little different. Yeah. Because there's some birds that it's just it doesn't matter how good your call is or town or is it you just hit something and he's coming. Yeah. Oh. There's some in the opposite way but there's also some that you just hit everyone you open him. Here they come. Right. All right. So what's the next one you're using a decoy. I think a shotgun guy who got a decoy in a blind or sitting against tree. I say outside of a blind still just that's the element now that that person because I think that is kind of a the way it trended at least for me it did you know it started with okay I'm sitting against a tree next thing I know I'm sitting against a tree and why not add a decoy man that would really be cool they're not looking at me. I had some realism to my setup I got two things they're relying on they can hear me and see me and now maybe I'll get away with a little more and it just seemed like the next thing and it wasn't even the decoys of today aren't hard to carry. Yeah. Depends now when you carry three or four of them yeah then they get hard to carry but an aim is not that no I I want I won't carry him. No but you're just carrying a head just the head. Oh yeah. Not a big deal. They got football on your back yeah. Yeah. So but any using the same type of setup you use less decoys because that's what we're going to make not that I'm saying what the football decoy oh Lord we got another funky chicken coming you could just chuck it out there you know. And it pops into a turkey. Yeah and you need to see it over there and just throw your football turkey. You're awesome. Yeah you are. But and if it were me going out right now I carry my same exact setup for decoys sitting against a tree are you using one decoy you using two you same thing is what you do in a blind. Again it depends on what I'm doing the train and everything you know if I got a long ways to go I'm not packing all the stuff we pack if I'm I'm just assuming somewhere like Iowa for hunting we don't have that far to go to most of that right then I'm then I love my decoy setup and that's three decoys and I'm packing them pretty much everywhere. A male and two hands. You change your little bit. I do I will change it out some yes I mean. Well I'll change it out considerably depending on the time of the year. I was going to say because you were on a you were on a kick there for a while of the three quarter strut Jake I hate it and then I think now I see if you said strutters going back to the strutters here too. I'm going to have to make myself tries to that three quarter strut jig. Because you've you were like loving it and then everybody I've talked to like y'all use that or the strutter I'm like if I put that freakin three quarter strut out of the birds running the other way see I want every time I never had luck with that Shane and I were just in Nebraska and the day before the thirty the forty five turkeys came out and we didn't come in we had a lone Tom with two jakes two jakes came out first in the field saw our decoys was coming and then the lone Tom came out he saw the decoy turned around and went back what was out and that was a strutter and I wonder had we had the one of the jakes if he had been okay because he was following those two jakes and and I knew it was after the fact it happened too fast we had seen him get his butt kicked by the the main Tom in the in the flock to the jakes come the jakes they didn't come all the way in either they got to like thirty yards with thirty five forty yards but he only got to like a hundred and twenty I think sometimes it's impossible guess because other because other ones got beat up by a Jake and so they're not coming to the Jake yeah so I just I just I just stick to one the thing I do like about the town care I'll use multiple decoys but I think that it looks so realistic especially when you have a real fan on there that and I think you just get a little bit more movement to you know where you can kind of hide their head and stuff where I that's one of the only as much about like the three quarter stretch a case where you can see its head you know like the entire time I think there is value in them not being able to see there right yeah trying to get around the decoy to see it so it's true but there's so there's multiple setups for decoys and I think if I'm a shotgun guy biggest thing is distance you know like we push the D a turkey will come directly to a decoy you know they won't always do that but they but you can they're not afraid to come over and have interaction with that decoy thump on it jump on it car all around helps it but you're a turkey decoys don't come apart like a deer does yeah and so my point is though if you're setting your decoys at twenty five yards you're probably getting your shots at thirty five yards if you're hunting with a shotgun but if you're not coming in yeah if they hang up at all or whatever you know but if you'll set your decoys at fifteen twenty yards you know then hopefully your shots twenty five yards are at the decoy at twenty yep that's not what I thought that was gonna say what do you think he's gonna say you know they're not afraid to come over and have inner oh I thought he was gonna say intercourse we've had him do that too I've had no way turkeys try to breed my we just did the other one I'm just shaking my head at one well and then you're like and they don't break and then I'm like being of all the ones we had standing on the decoy up in the crap out of what sucks is when you you start with three decoys you open the bag and there's fifteen of them in there oh my god that was a dumbest dad joke I've heard in a while oh wow yeah I haven't bought a decoy in years they just keep multiply I just let the tone breed it before I kill it it'd be so awesome that would be nice I wouldn't be so worried about somebody shooting a decoy anymore yeah so those are marginally phenomenal that would be funny but the one that everyone needs to understand when you're setting your decoys is which way and we're past this as well in where we are and but some people can't use some places you cannot use motion you know or it can't be electric as I say I've never heard a one that you can't use motion no I think any of them that you have a decoy you can run a string out there and move it yourself if you want something that's not electrically powered correct some form of engine yep and what I used to always use a station line and it first came from Primos sold it sold the B mobile and killer B that way where they have a little ring in the front so you could turn him and then you could also pull on it and dump the tail that is huge oh it's a really cool deal it's it makes a big I mean and you always have your little chick chick I do it all the time huh yeah that's my trick it freaking works though I do it's amazing the difference though that just when one time moving that tail like when they're kind of thinking about it still and then it all of a sudden oh yep it's legit and here they come I've had that work for reaping where they've I've crawled up and they won't do it and then I just crouched on even more and start doing that old tail thing and I'm like all right they're coming now yeah but so anyhow but if you're going to set your decoys you always want to set your hands with their head facing away from you whether you're sitting against a tree whether you're in a blind and the reason is because the tom is going to come to the tail of the hen he's always going to try to come in as though he's going to breed it and then exact opposite with your male decoy if you're setting a jake or you're setting a tom you want his head facing the blind so that he'll have to swing around to get to the head because they're going to try to does it matter that much with the hen though because if he's going to come up to the decoy you're probably going to hopefully you're going to shoot him anyhow but I guess I start airing in that direction because we bow hunt so much and we need him to stay and I know where we need to be there as long as possible a big tip for your decoys whether you have one that like the fan drops like we're talking about or anything even just taking a regular strutting decoy or just your jake and facing it away from you and still using like a little fishing line or something that way when you have a bird coming in you can pull that and then when you pull it it's facing you now one it gives a movement and two now they've seen the bird move and they still got to come around the front so setting your decoy that way so you can move it. Yeah because that's what I was going to say is now that we're using a movable we have something electronic which it's legal where we're hunting at it doesn't matter which way we face it because we can turn it. You can turn it back. Yeah so you know I seem to but what I like to do all the times I've got my tom or my jake facing where the turkey's gobbling from or where I think they're coming from and once they make eye contact with my decoy I turn that decoy so his head goes away and then it seems like it's like oh no you didn't you're not going to show me your backside and here they come. Yeah. So it makes all the difference in the world. I guess you know if the one that you could probably get away do away with the easiest is the lay down head. It's the one that's not seen probably until they get there. Yeah. You know but it's the one that for a bow hunter it holds them. You know I've seen a lot of times we're putting the hanger I mean the jaker the tom in proximity to where we want to shoot which for a bow we're only like 10 yards and I was explaining it's a seminar at spring thunder I don't do six yards anymore it was too close. We're going out about eight or nine and try to keep them out there. But putting that I'll put the lay down head probably within a yard of the tom and man watch them try to get in between there you know and cut off that tom. It's pretty cool. We got some good video from Nebraska this year already of four toms came in and one of them gets in between gets up on the decoy while the other ones are beaten up on the other tom. I still really want I cannot believe I've never had a tom come in and just beat the crap out of my decoy. That's because you shoot them before they. It's very true. I don't wait very long but I could be part of it. So but you asked that you asked the question I think at the beginning like what is it some of our most memorable hunts. I think when you say that the one that keeps coming to mind but I've got several but the reason this one is I told you guys and you may or may not remember what I know you know what I call it but you may not know why and that's I call it the Pied Piper. Yes we know why. We may not have seen the show dad. It wasn't a show. I had to look this up for Shane because I just we were taught me him and Eli are sitting in the blind in Nebraska and I said that that's how we got the tom and the two jakes to come. As I said I call this the Pied Piper. We're going to walk up to the fence. We saw them make some calls when they start to commit. We run back and get in the blind and I've done it me and you did it in South Dakota. So in preface for people why not just call from the blind because they couldn't hear us. Yes. That's why you're going out there. I went out to where I knew they could hear me and then as they start to respond I start back in a way till I get back to the blind and then get in the blind and also done it with just a turkey fan. Well that's where I was with years. So where is this probably the longest. So what was the Pied Piper? So the Pied Piper is a story what do they call the folklore? Folklore I guess or something like that. The kids you know like Hansel and Gretel and all these other Cinderella or whatever. Finding Nemo I guess if that was a newer one. But anyhow so what was it 1016 Wallaby way. How do you remember that? Is that right? I don't know. Oh my gosh. It is shut up Nick you don't know. But I thought I was the one that watched Nemo over and over when I was a kid. You did that's why I remember. I don't remember it. Okay so my point is the Pied Piper though was this mythical person that went into a city played his flute and all the rats came out and all the rats followed him out and he ridded the town of and so it's basically making using a musical instrument to make the whole thing the whole embodiment do something. And follow you. And follow you. That's where I started calling it that. And so we did it then but on Easton's case it was the Pied Piper but this bird was like. We did it. It was over three quarters of a mile. Yeah it was so far away. We did it was a mile. Three quarters of that was like straight line. Like we drew an Easter. No it was an Easter. We drew a line from where the blind was to where the bird was and as crow flies on Onyx it was three quarters of a mile. It was. And well he was sleeping through 90% of it. Well he was calling to something way out there. I'm like I screw that. I'm like there's a strudy Tom out there you know and I started calling then I went back to the blind and got the decoy. Brought the decoy up and stood it on. I came up there with you for that. Yeah you did for that. That's when I said I got a strudy Tom out here in the field. I didn't tell him how far away it was. And so we got up there and I stuck that decoy and I think he might have helped me on top of the fence post. As high as we could get. It's like six seven feet in the air and I'm spinning it around and doing all this and I'm calling and calling and then the next thing I know I'm like I think he's coming. He's then no whatever. And I said well he went out of sight when he comes if he comes back up that next ridge he's going to be 500 yards away but he will have come a long way. And all of a sudden he came up that ridge and he was like that far away. So we started creeping back and then kept calling he kept coming and then we finally had to leave him to the blind. That's not just bailed. And we took off jumped in the blind. It was probably ten minutes. We're like man I don't know and all of a sudden top that hill. There he comes and he made a great shot. He shot him at ten yards. Yeah it was. But so I think that's something that's interesting for people to know. Like a Miriam. I don't think that the three quarter of a mile calling one in is all that uncommon. No. Where Easterns? That's from our experience here in Iowa that's a long long way is getting bird to come. Yes. For sure. I'm trying to think like I can I think I had one I didn't have on X back then. They weren't invented yet. A Miriam in Montana that I believe was over a mile. I believe it. He was way up there. That's the other thing with Miriam is it is so much different than Easterns. I'd be curious to hear about Ocola's too because it's not like they're pretty aggressive. Yeah. But like a Miriam we had several times where we'd screw him up that day or we'd shoot one in the morning or something and then we'd go back and go to a little different spot and change our decoys and call him right back in and shoot another one where Easterns you are not doing that. No you get one chance. Yeah. I mean if you get to do that twice in the season I think that you did something. If you get to do it twice in a day I don't think I've ever seen that. Yeah. They did it last year with Nick. They shot. Jake still count. No they did. Oh I guess the Jake's that he killed Jake didn't he? Yeah because they shot. Yeah. They shot in the same flock they went back the next morning. Yeah. Jake's we're talking to him here. I don't know if anyone you killed it you shot the same bird four times in a season or three times. Yeah. Two times with a bow and one time with a shotgun and we're not talking about all at the same time we're talking about over the course of the season we didn't know you were hunting the same turkey and which we had to reap in the third time though with the shotgun. Yeah. Yeah. That was the point though. But he had two holes in him. Plus a third on his head. That was the beginning of my problems and that was not my fault because I actually can wheel that bird. That was a faulty arrow. Yep. It was one of the sun. Victory. It was the first one to out-search and it broke. Hit the wing button. Oh yeah. Turn side. Well they bend. Yeah. They would just bend and that would take all your kinetic energy away and so then it wouldn't go in. Yep. All right so but so anyhow I guess getting back to what your initial question though was having done all those other things having sat outside a blind no decoy having sat outside side of a blind with a decoy with a shotgun and then climbed into a blind if you want a bow hunt for turkeys and you want to be successful a blind and decoys is going to put your success rate way up the chart. I suggest that for just really anybody getting into turkey hunting to learn them because it gives you a lot more forgiveness when they're coming in as far as you start to learn where and you can move when you can't move and you can put some decoys out and get the hang of that a little bit and then start. Absolutely. Granted some of this is probably some of the older school guys will argue start in the wood or start like against the tree and stuff because it's going to be a lot harder and you're going to learn it. You're going to learn every bit about them as opposed to going the other way but you could do it both ways. Well you just saw a hunter with some friends of ours down in Alabama and he was got two kids and he just found a blind. It's the first time they've ever used an actual blind. Their reference to a blind is sticks piled up. But that blind made a huge difference for two boys. What are they eight and nine? Nine yeah. But they're also and this is anybody that listens to us in the south is probably going to want to shoot me in the head after this one but a lot of them I talked to so many of them about using a blind because they're terrified to use a blind. I think the birds are going to spook from them. Yes and so Kyle and everybody was saying that if they use one they're going to set it there for two three weeks and then use it like we do a deer if you brush it in. And I told Kyle I said and I told him this before I was talking to those guys that said that because I don't know the birds down there that well but I was like dude you got two kids that are moving around take your blind and go wherever you need to go. It's not a big blind at all. Take it down take it to the next spot whatever it's not hard to move so move it where you need to move it don't just leave it in one spot because you're scared to use it and that next morning well that night those guys told me that was like oh great I hope I didn't like totally screw up Kyle. Well he went and they had that birds not even not care at all that they put in a new spot they're within like 40 yards of them they just couldn't get them to come in and never he's I said did they even look at the blind he goes no they didn't have a page tension. Which is like people in the west so you can't bugle at elk. Yeah and so I think theirs is more of a logical thought process as opposed to experimental thought process. You put a building in their place and make sense. I think that they're not going to pay attention to it but they do or they don't. Yeah. To an extent but then again just like what Warren was saying a minute ago just keep in mind that with anything more people are using it and more things are happening they do get used to hey man those square things don't things don't always go like they're supposed to when I see those. We lose a friend every time we walk up. Yeah. We'll walk around this thing. But I've had turkeys especially out west use the blind as a like way to hide. Oh yeah. Come around behind the blind and they're in the decoy and he's like looking around like if you could have reached out and grabbed him. Kid named Brock killed his first Tom first Jake. Yeah. The Tom was against the blinds we couldn't shoot him he shot the Jake that was at the decoy. Well I think we've gone over the majority of types only when I haven't touched on is the controversial. Oh yeah that's a good one. Reaping. I like it. And I don't know I'm going to just go ahead and make the stance I don't know why it needs to be controversial. I'm in a green it's with it in case you're wondering with that. I'm in a green. Yes. I think that one I don't know that it I guess I don't feel like it had been really controversial until like the last year or two. I've started seeing like there's a lot of people stating you know and the most that comes from just videos we've posted like you reaping one we have a whole bunch of people and then. I can't remember if there are some other ones. But anyways I've been seeing some people saying that you know that it's a little bit more not held as in high regard as everybody as it seemed to used to be which I could see a few things like that one. I do think that it's a it's a probably two effective way of killing turkeys. I do think it's a really really effective way of killing turkeys and I do think maybe it could have a contributing factor to to the total harvest numbers maybe that's why some of the numbers are down. And I also I do think that the amount of turkeys that you could see driving around here before reaping was a really known thing. And now is two different things. It seems like they've almost learned some not to go near the roads during season or something and be strutting around in the fields all over the place because I don't see them doing it near as much. I don't know if I would say that I haven't noticed that much of a difference driving around. I think it's just a matter of they're not as consistent. I don't feel like every single year like you'll find them a lot of a lot of times in the same areas but if you've haunted them a lot in that one area or they've moved or like the number of turkeys is quite a few less than what there is of deer. So I feel like that you're going to have different areas where they're going to show up but maybe right. I don't but I also don't think what you could probably do is we could probably go back and look and see when when reaping really became a thing like when it became when I was not that I was the first one to do it by any means but with Jeremy was the first time that was like me seemed to be the first person doing it a lot. Yeah he wasn't. There was other actually Native Americans were doing it apparently like down in Florida and stuff like that for really. Yeah they were using tails. Will Primos will talk to you about it being done 30 years ago. Really I did not know. But they didn't call it anything that is you know talked about having a tail. They're like yeah you could just walk. He just walks behind this tail and walks right at him but it wasn't I think the video and social media. Everybody starts. He just has like 13 in there is where it seems like blow up. And that's when social media started to get big and hunters were putting stuff on there and you got to admit the video that has been captured from that is crazy. I mean yeah I've seen blood splatter on a camera. I don't know if that's a good thing or not but that's kind of gross. So anyhow it's been around for a long time but it's gotten a lot more you know a lot more popular or a lot more mainstream that lots of people are doing it. I think we should preface as well. Like I support it. I enjoy doing it. I think it's a lot of fun and I think it's a lot of fun to see the birds interact especially when they're kind of in a way interacting with you. But there's certain place like I would never do it on public land. I would never do it on even the place that permission I won't do it on because I don't know when there's other guys in there. The only times I'm doing it is when it's like in the timber is not a good deal. Yes and if I am doing it in the timber one that's not the ideal situation to do it with a bird in the first place. Second off I'm doing it on a place that I'm either I'm the one that can hunt or like you guys are hunting it to and I just know that like you guys know that I'm going to be in there kind of thing. So that's safety number one. Number number two I could see the unfairness of I'll give you as long as you're willing to crawl sometimes. It might be a long ways but I mean physically wise but as long as you have the right setup and you crawl out the right it doesn't even really have to be the right bird unless it's a chicken bird it'll run the other way but the majority of them you can crawl at them and if you got a shotgun it's pretty like the success rate is high very high. So I could understand that aspect of looking at it like okay this is a little excessive it's not fair. The one I would say that was we were just talking about it if you do it if you do know with a bow completely different story I would I would I would tell you that with a shock reaping with a shotgun is the easiest way to go kill a bird all together out all the different ways you can think of it. Easiest way to get a shot. Yeah easiest way to get a shot I think that reaping a turkey with a bow is the absolute hardest way to to try it. The only one that I can't talk on that I think would be a little harder is just flat out sitting against a tree with your bow and trying to shoot one. I think dad is fix that. Honestly no I'm not saying strapping another decoy on your bow. I'm saying you just take one because like that I did that with one and it was like oh this kind of a cake walk not that it was a super easy but because it's a lot to carry when you're crawling and what we're talking about there is dad got you get your regular decoy that you crawl behind strut and decoy and then you take like a 2D. Ultimate Predator is the one that makes a two dimensional decoy that mounts to your bow. You can do a little strapping on your bow so then it looks like two toms walking at them but that way you can stick the decoy in the ground and so when you have to get to full draw that's the hard part because if you get to full draw outside of the decoy they see it. If you pop out too much they see it and I'll fly away and when I say like they a lot of time they're gone but with that you can draw while they're walking at you and it works really well. Doing it no other decoy just your strutter one you got to know a bird extremely like body language very well. You got to know when to push forward a little bit more to get them not to come running in and you got to be able to know like can I get to full draw behind the decoy without it seeing me and can I slide out to the side or can I wait for him to pop out to the side and then shoot him like there's a lot that goes into doing it without both of them. I think maybe I'm going to do a little research for us and compile some of the harvest reports and see if you can see if there's a national difference from say 2010 to now before to now like whether people are killing more turkeys or not like yeah like how many of our kids started well they have those to tail and down yeah I know and so I feel how hard it is to find them though. Mmm it's going to depend the problem too though is I don't know how many states it's illegal in and yeah there are some slaps that's the thing that too is there for a while it wasn't illegal we should wasn't until they got very popular that it became illegal we should back up a little bit and make sure that we explain so if someone understands because I meet people every day that don't never heard of turkey reaping a lot of them don't yeah they don't know why they may have seen the video but I don't know the name right and when we refer to turkey reaping what we're referring to is taking a strutting tom regardless of whatever decoy you want but they make some that are designed for this and crawling and so what you're looking for is a bird that is usually one of the toughest birds to kill if you're doing any of the traditional ways because he's already out in a field and you can't get to him. So we only cow he's got to just we lost one of our members bladder infection so but what we're referring to is taking a decoy and crawling out of turkey out in the wide open where you can see him and normally that bird is kind of off limits as far as other hunting would say you know I would even say that like some of your birds that are like chicken bird we call them chicken birds that may only come into sixty seventy yards to our setup decoy setup or something a lot of those birds even if you push them hard enough like sometimes if you push them too hard they're going the other way it will take on just messing with them and educating them but if like we had the one that was down in that green big green field that I crawl in and goodness gracious that freakin tom was just back and forth back and forth back and forth and I could keep pushing him keep pushing him until finally he would break and find when he broke and I screwed it up but well but but no there's what you didn't really screwed up as much as that's what happens they come running yeah and they're going to beat up on this tom he's gotten too close and he comes running when he comes running with a shotgun you could kill him but with a bow you got to get the full draw and he's got to stop at some point and he just didn't stop I mean he runs in and then so but that's where what we're doing is using one tom to crawl behind and the other tom is mounted to your bow and now the ultimate predator makes theirs and and I'm not taking anything away from their decoy but I went and put a real fan on mine and then put a 3d head on mine yeah so that it really looks legit when you come out from behind the decoy but I will also preface that one and I do think that if you get that set up correctly you're it's not going to be like just as effective as a shotgun but it's you're right up there with a shotgun that defeats the whole issue of trying to draw and figure out when to when to move and stuff so just for clarification purposes that version versus one strutting decoy with your bow two separate things like I've yep there's a handful of people I've met that have actually done it your one I actually I did it last year and then I've I mean I've talked to some people that have done it but you should ask them if they have done it and how many times they tried it because I tell how many I've done I wasn't solely doing it every year but I'd I've probably done I probably did 10 or 15 different freaking crawls before I actually got one to work correctly coming in and I get a shot granted it was a four yard shot but just kind of cool we got our bladder infection back yep alright so anyhow so that we were talking about reaping we've talked about all the different decoy setups the one thing that I guess we didn't talk about and that is the the things that what I look for in a decoy is I want glass eyes and I want to add real feathers real feathers is no I in my opinion number one the moment that you buy a strutting Tom you need to take whatever they give you and get rid of it and put a real tail on there and it will make so much of the difference granted some of them do it some of the decoy companies do it now where you can just fit the fan itself in there but I just looked in primo still sells the freaking the little thing that you slide them in they sell it with decoy now so then you can use their fan or they sell you the little bracket where you got to pull you pull individual feather out yeah but the great thing about it is folds up but that's what's nice about it so it folds up goes inside the I didn't think I was still around yeah I have several yeah but um that's one way to do it the other one though is and and I can just tell you that I've I've don't have one myself but I think that we would be absolutely like decoy wise a hundred percent is remember when he was hunted with Robbie in Nebraska and he had that hen that had the feathers on her yep she was money and that's the ugliest look at him you've ever seen I don't remember what decoy was but he didn't spend much money on that decoy well the but didn't he take you like skinned one basically and well he had put two wings and so then he put a bolt through there that would hold it and had wings on the side pretty much covered the whole thing yeah I mean I remember Curtis took that one that first one you helped him kill too and and he dawled up his decoy and it looked really good like he took the wings and had it strutting and head and everything to it he painted oh yeah he went all out hey it looked good though it did look really good but at the same time if you're gonna do that you could you could also say just go get yourself a mounted strutting Tom put that out there that works extremely well as to yeah mr. T mr. T was very very hard yeah mobility wise he was terrible yeah but by the way you were I can't so I was doing the shame back then I would crawl out set my decoy back up crawl back in the blind he come right back in yeah I mean we had one Tom that day that mom shot droopy butt that came in four times I can't believe how long that that mount lasted he lasted I killed 13 turkeys over yeah and pretty much every one of them probably beat the crap oh all of them yeah I mean because you couldn't get like you couldn't shoot him fast enough they would come running in and just karate shoot out you know I think other than that other than droopy butt that bird in Idaho the one that flew off the mountain yeah that was the one I was thinking of when you were saying what would be like some of the most memorable hunts that one all I if if only it was psycho though that bird that bird was not I wasn't on that hunt so I don't yes you were you were sleeping oh that's why I don't have a shocker now what I was like three I pray five or six yeah so something like that the effort came from like a mile and then he came from a long long way and remember the last time he came in was after mom had already clipped his butt yeah and he came in and then saw the decoy was like oh no took off running I thought it was a skunk coming that was that afternoon that was in the afternoon after he'd already come in three times yeah and mom had shot at him twice hit him on the last one because I want he strutted didn't look for me his tail would hang there he couldn't he couldn't lift his tail anymore she clipped just the very just the microscopic part of his tail and so when he would strut he would boom and all his feathers would stand up except for his tail is so we called his group he didn't laugh at that didn't seem to affect him that one seemed to bother me he was nuts so but the one that Warren's talking about in Idaho I had the little camera with us and but I had no idea the bird was going to come flying in I'm thinking so just to kind of give people a perspective Warren and Karen are set up in a ground line with the decoy with Mr. T out and we've got a little bank behind them we didn't have Mr. T no oh no we had your decoy there yeah this was like legit mountains oh yeah so people know like we were like this is el cut we were seeing elk as we were turkey on it for sure and so but this you remember that mound came up behind them we were probably twenty yards above them something like that you know not too far away but not close enough we could talk to them or anything like that and we were calling and this bird is freaking out on top of them and in front of them is the mountain they mean literally a big ass mountain that goes up the hill and he is up on that mountain and we start calling to this bird and he's freaking out and I'm thinking you guys hit one call yeah we called on the way he was up there then you guys hit one call because my arrow wasn't even hardly fully knocked and he just pitched pitched and I saw it came flying but I just never forget he flew in cupped like a freak yes he looked like a goose because when he was flying I just remember seeing him look head is like he looked over and saw the decoy and went don't know if you're gonna fly right over it yeah because he was coming like over top of us oh he flew right over us well grab a shadow of him you we didn't get him on film mom actually has the camera on filming the decoy and you see the shadow go over the decoy and we heard it and mom we're like mom's like what the heck and it was we just hear whoof yeah and then you can see the shadow on there and I told mom and I think he just flew in and I'm like trying to get my arrow knocked and she's like why no way and then I peek out and here he freaking comes like imagine our view we're watching a bird fly right now it's a so cool T15 turkey tomahawk it was pretty impressive to see how fast he was going and to cut on a dime like he had I would like to know if anybody else has ever had a turkey pitch off of a mountain or a hill to come in that's the craziest thing I've ever seen you kill that bird yeah you did yeah yeah that's a lot of huge beer to shot it but I just remember your dancing oh yeah we got a monster oh yeah remember he went over the hill yeah now I died I don't remember how he made it over the hill but no but it was good if I was a pretty dang impressive shot if I remember right was it not we should have a little video corded away maybe that's why I was saying it was corded away it was it was a really cool hunt yeah but what you talk about now this one wasn't hunting and oh because it wasn't ethical but it's funny but it's exact there was a guy in Lewis town and I stopped at it just a knock on his door to ask him if I could turkey hunks I seen turkey's there and he said well sure and I was like great and but right behind his house about I don't know 150 yards there was a big rock cliff I mean when I say rock cliff I'm talking 150 yards to the tops of the rocks and anyhow he says I said at the time no on X so I don't I don't know exactly how where you know I'm asking him where are the borders and stuff like that and he said well what are you gonna what are you doing and I said well I was gonna get my decoy and stuff you don't need to do that and I'm like I don't know what you mean and he's got a garden right here in front of his I mean we're standing literally in his driveway oh lord and he goes over and grabs a metal bucket and inside the metal bucket is a coffee can and he starts shaking it and he's saying he turkey turkey turkey turkey I'm like I don't want to really hunt a turnt I don't know what you're doing but you know and I was kind of laughing I mean the guy just gave me permission to hunt you know I'm not trying to be rude and he says just wait a minute here turkey turkey and about that time a turkey shows up on top of that rock cliff and pitched off there and comes flying down and lands right in the driveway and I'm like a wild turkey and he says yeah there you go and I was like I don't like the lady in Nebraska yeah that told us to shoot it off her porch yeah she said yeah you guys can hunt but you have to shoot that one right there yeah there's one strutting in the yard and it was a wild one too oh yeah and then dad and dad was like oh we don't really want to do it she's like he's an asshole and she's like 80 yeah and then he would chase her every time she'd go to her car what the heck and then he was like and then dad was like oh you know well we'd really like to kind of hunt them you know and she's like no no no I know how this works you get more than one tag so you can shoot that one right there and then you can hunt the other one of an entry fee what was happening is he had found the bird feeder and it was on the other side of her car so every time she tried to get in her car he thought she was trying to take away the bird see and so he was pecking at her and everything else and she was tired of it she was surprised she didn't walk out there with a shotgun and say I don't think I don't think she had one she was so glad to see us she's like absolutely shoot him yeah yeah which was why we you're on my court again oh that's why we knocked on the door in the first place is because it's true because it's true because he's in the yard oh boy that's funny but now you had to have had a red flag though and you pull in and they don't run away not but I mean that's not uncommon to see him in yards like that in turkeys is back there Nebraska yeah but now pop killed one that flew across pond yeah that's pretty good I mean and the only turkey that I've ever killed or I've been a part of that we've killed that no beard no beard whatsoever I mean full so the one you guys got in the frame in the bathroom oh yeah he's a full fan had to inch right out about three quarter of an inch spurs you know and everything and no beard whatsoever and now he did a joey but he did all purpose he was saying I am missing this turkey so he just blew him away blue feathers everywhere because I had just finished telling him he's not gonna come pop and he's like why and I say because there's a pond there and they just don't fly across I mean is a big pond probably 150 yards across and yeah and next thing I know I'm like I think I hear oh my here he comes and just but he was flying right at us so I saw him coming and we were uphill so I just shoot him out of the air no he landed about 30 yards away and then ran to like 25 got him that's crazy yep so yeah I've had some pretty good call ins but you guys had four four toms the one day that came to you guys right before dark yeah the craziest one we were had was on the fence that was nuts we were trying to go back that same I thought you're talking about that and we saw so we were trying to get back to the spot my dad's talking about where we'd always see these turkeys in the in the evening or well they would roost along this creek bottom and we were running late actually I think and so we were East and I are booking it trying to get back there and we I think we were smart off we went slow over that hill yeah we did and we saw the fan to get over the hill yeah but we did but he didn't know he didn't know we just use it for cover yeah and so we peek over the hill and we see this bird at like 60 70 yards and strutting right there we're like oh crap what do we do and at this time like 16 and Easton's 12 I think yeah and there is it like four three or four small cedar trees like four feet on the fence and so we're like let's get in this in the seat so we put the decoys out we have the blind everything but we didn't set it up and set it up yeah and so we just put the decoys out at like six yards in front of us if I'm right all I all we did is we got me set up for the camera and then you crawled out with one decoy I don't even think we put multiple out you just put a tom out that could be well and then we called started calling and here he came and he came right up the fence so we're on the fence and then he comes up the fence and then you know when they're on a fence they're trying to figure out where to come give by it he's walking by Easton and I from from closer than me and Easton like he's we're talking feet like probably he was probably two feet or less yeah like he was just the only difference was he was on the other side of the fence and you could hear him you know and he's just and then and so then he couldn't get through the fence and so he like goes out there probably I don't know 20 yard or no no that's what it was he was strutting behind us and just wouldn't come through the fence so then I crawled out there and grabbed our decoy and turned it around and managed to get him to come a little bit and then somehow Easton got the decoy and so or that's what it was he went back and so we're like okay this time you crawl out three decoy and then I'll just draw and shoot him and so then Easton gets the decoy and crawls it like pulls him over just a little bit on the other side of the fence and which we could hunt the other side of fence too and so when he does that I get the full draw before he comes out and I shoot him at like six yards and that one I thought I hit really good and didn't find out what he did everywhere which but it was it was insane I'm that was some massive teamwork right there it was crazy that was cool and oh that we've had some good I mean that one pitched to though right away he didn't even he just like Aussie did pretty much was just right on the edge of the hill too so all he had to do is turn around and open his wings we looked a long time for that bird yeah we never did find him but so there's some of our turkey stories I mean I could probably think of lots of others but because we've shot doubles where they jump up on top of one after you shoot it and we've had them in the evening evenings or what seemed to be like the shock estimate last year the the second bird you shot I mean we sat there until it was down to the wire because we were close to the end of the season too yeah yeah that was another dad one where you were like oh you just need to hold on yeah they're he's over the hill I know he's over the hill and he came but if you guys have any questions too random things I know we tried to cover a lot or put his topics yeah any topics in general all the time but well the great thing is about the turkey stuff this is going to go out and and turkey season is just starting I mean a lot of we're pretty fortunate actually I was one of the earlier starts I mean granted down south and that's a southeastern corner they've already started but a lot of seasons Pennsylvania they don't even start till May yeah I would not like to New York I think yeah and a lot of them are later so if you guys have questions we'll try to answer whatever we can but shoot us whatever you got and you know we'll go from there but if you can't tell we love our turkey honey that's a lot of fun you know what are there so many different ways to do it yep and we're not saying we're doing it the right way we're just doing it a lot that's all so is that it we good we good we good all right fellas fellas and gals and guys and gals we sure appreciate you and that's the raised honey podcast signing off thank you very much