Out of State Hunts: Breaking Down How to Plan a Western Hunt

O.G. was the old girl. The old. Oh my gosh. O.G.? I don't know. I don't care. Coming from the one that watches like eight mile and stuff. I thought it was orange juice. That's not even the right letter. That's the point. That's the point. Go, liquor. Okay. Welcome to the raised hunting podcast. And today we're going to be doing this by myself. Go, because I don't want to have to listen to these two Nimrads because they are driving me nuts. But before we start, I do want to make a big shout out to Logan Brower because he's an O.G. Peace with you, bro. He doesn't know. He didn't know what O.G. stood for two seconds ago. I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, gal. Huh? It's a big little gangster. It's from my era. How would I not know that? It's era. Era, era. It's the same thing. You know what? We are going to have a podcast topic one of these days. We're going over pronunciating work. Oh, yeah. Well, we should. Because we got, I think that'll be a debacle. That's a tabernacle. Oh, my gosh. Okay. It went away. But anyhow, Logan was nice enough to write in a review and he commented on the fact that he used one of the tips that I just was talking about in the last podcast to kill himself a giant turkey with an 11 inch beard. So congrats, Logan. Nice work, my friend. That's how we got on the conversation of OG because Logan is an OG. Yeah, he's been with us from long. We got to give Trevor Finney a shout out too because he killed his first bird in New York. Good deal, Trevor. His first one was a bow. Nice work, dude. Anything with a bow is worth like a pat on the back. But killing a turkey with a bow is a big deal. Yeah, I agree with that. 100%. But Easton has two other people though that have actually brought up the topic we're going to talk about today. One of them is Brian Dixon. Daxon. Daxon. Make sure people keep writing the reviews, keep sending them in. 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Yeah, because we assume that probably 90 maybe 99% of our listeners are white tail hunters or someone who would climb a tree at some point. And that's all it means is if you're going to get into a tree, you want to definitely check out our sticks because these things are cool. And there's going to be some incentive because we're going to be taking our, we are going to start taking orders next week on 17th. On Wednesday, yeah. Okay. So we are going to take some pre-sale orders and there's a special. We won't give you everything yet. Yeah, I just told you we gave them the password thing. All right. You guys just remembered no one else knows this password. Compliments to Easton. He built the website is pretty frickin legit. Oh, yeah. All right. So should we talk about today's topic? Yeah, let's get her going. All right. So today's topic is about going out of state hunting, particularly the one gentleman that Brian that wrote in, he asked about going out of state on a turkey hunt and was wondering our thoughts on how to go about doing it, what states to go to, where to go, how to put in for them and things like that. And then Brendan was actually covering the whole thing. How do I go about putting in for other states for any type of honey? So we're going to try to cover both things. It's really kind of the same topic. It just expanded upon by Brendan. So does anyone want to start with maybe the first question or? I'm feeling maybe we should knock out turkeys first. I think that's a little more simple. Okay. I think turkeys can be the, you'll know all the rules as far as. I don't know about all of them, but I know a lot. I guess just a general idea a lot more, but as far as like strategies going into it, I think number one is if you're going to go determine whether you're going to go public, you're going to go knock on doors for private land, if you're going to go with an outfitter, whatever you're going to do, determine that obviously before you go. And when you do go, I would say don't limit yourself too much to like a certain area. Like you need to go like what we did when we went to Nebraska just to test, like just to go over there for a weekend, go to wherever the birds are at. Like, yeah, you can pick a spot. Like say we're going to go to this town, stay in this town kind of thing, but find where the birds are. Don't just go knocking on every door trying to just get as much permission as possible. I guess that's my point with that is that I'm doing that a little differently than back home. I'm going to knock on doors here. I'm going to knock on as many as I can and get as much land as I can. But you already have a certain. There's turkeys around. Yeah, I think you got to go further back than that. Like one, I think you need to start with just so that people know it's not quite like elk hunting as far as getting tags. No, I was going to let you know over that. Yeah, I was talking about it because I think Montana's over the counter. Wyoming's over the counter. Nebraska was fully over the counter now. They're kind of over the counter, but there's a cap on the tags. Idaho's over the counter. Idaho's over the counter. I think Missouri is. Missouri's not western though. Kansas, that doesn't matter if it's raw. We're not doing this western. Yeah, he's not asking about just western hunts. I mean, and so a lot of your southern species too. Yeah, a lot of your southern birds are all, you know. But you don't hear about anybody going to the east. This is the question. This is the question. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Really? Oh, yeah. Everybody I've talked to has gone to South Carolina. They've gone to Indiana. Well, maybe the people over there. No, in the Midwest, you've heard of people from here going over to the South Carolina. And the straight line of the Midwest, multiple people going over there. I haven't met anybody. I'll have to talk to about three. Well, I can tell you that one of the biggest like Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, places like that, those are highly sought after because they're start early. You know, guys can go their way before their season starts. So those are some of the things you want to take into account is when would the season start when can I take advantage of being able to go somewhere that I'm not missing out on doing what I do at home. But I think the biggest and I think next year I've got a couple invites and I'm probably going to take them up on it and go do it. I've never hunted the New England states for turkeys. I've hunted bear up there. I've spent a lot of time because we lived on the East Coast. I played soccer and a lot. I've been to all the states. But I've never turkey hunted and I think like a thick like lots of turkeys in some of the areas of New York and then farther up into Maine and New Hampshire and Connecticut and areas like that. And so I've got a couple invites that maybe I'll take them up on it next year and try it because they sent me some pictures and everything this year saying, come on up, man, we'd love to have you come turkey hunt. So I guess for me to kind of speak to someone looking to go out of state. First of all, what are you looking for? What species of turkey are you wanting to hunt? Is there a specific one? Is it not specific that you're looking for in a species? Maybe you're specifically looking for to be able to lengthen your season. You want to go somewhere. So then I would tell you those southern states that I would include Texas in that though, but those are Rio and the Texas kind of falls in its own category. It can be very difficult to find a place to hunt there without paying. You're probably going to pay for it. But you can do a lot of the eastern, a lot of the southern stuff, a lot of national forest. I can go and not going to be easy hunting, but it's doable. It's places to go and hunt. And then Easton found out, and I've known this for quite a while, back East and down south, there's a lot of leasing that goes on for turkey hunting. I mean, guys, specifically, that's what they're leasing for is to have a spot to turkey hunt because it's gotten more difficult to find a good spot. So keep that in mind. You might be able to buy into a lease for not too expensive. Especially if you get a couple buddies together. But you also need to just, I don't, you'll probably correct me or maybe you won't. I don't think there's very many good government websites as far as laws go. Like trying to find your any rags and stuff. I mean, you'll find your reg books pretty easy, but it's not like. You got to go state by state. Oh, it's a pain in the freaking butt. But just whatever you're looking for, whether it's over the counter or not, you need to go to their website really. And I think calling them is sometimes the easiest. Actually, talk physically talking to someone in every state has a number that you can call at least everyone that I've hunted and everyone that I've contacted. I've been able to reach someone. And they should be able to help you the biologists on, you know, on that's local there should be able to give you an idea whether the area you're looking at. It's got good birds. One of the best things though is buddies. You know, buddies or family or something like that. The, you know, I see turkeys. I know where this area is. Then go compare that with what the state tells you and that kind of stuff. How much I think for turkeys is a little different, but how much do you think you can trust the information you're getting from those people? I've had some bad experiences. I mean, sometimes they're supposed to be there for us, meaning the state officials. I would hope that there isn't very many like the one that I ran into and what I'm referring to and I don't mind mentioning it, but I ran into a biologist in Montana one time that told me not to tell nonresidents about where I was hunting, that he didn't want to do. Or even residents, was it? He didn't carry who it was. He didn't want to. That was elk. That was elk. Yep. But I just, that struck me as extremely odd because he was a public. He is the person that you would contact. If you contacted the state, there's a very good chance that he would be the one that picked up the phone back then and say, hello, how are you? Oh, yeah, you're looking to go hunting and he was going to make sure that you didn't go to this area because he hunted there. That's wrong. I don't care how you cut that. That's wrong. So anyhow, hopefully you won't run into that. And then as far as turkeys go, when you start heading out west, it took places like that and that seems to be becoming a little more popular thing for people to do, especially because Miriams, in my opinion, one, they're easier to hunt, but two, I think they're the most pretty bird. They're really pretty. They're awesome. Not that a big ol' eastern turkey and a full strut ain't just kick ass as well. White tips, though, on the fan and stuff. I think that looks really cool. And I can't speak to it. I'm not positive if the east has it in the south because I haven't done it there. But what I can tell you, Midwest, starting, I know Nebraska has it, and then moving farther west, a lot of the western states have worked out things with landowners where you have walk-in type things, where you can just sign a card or fill out a permission slip and you're hunting private ground. But other people can hunt that private ground. Not too many people can be there all at once. Don't overlook those. They can be super. They can be, and it's a guaranteed access type thing, as long as... Now some, the way that most states that I've hunted them, they all are somewhat the same in that if you put your property in there, you still have control. So you could say, I only want mine open Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then Friday Saturday and Sunday, it's closed. So you need to check that. I might say, I don't care. And then the state comes in and says, okay, we won't let more than five people in during the week or something like that. Some, there was a limit though, too, right? There was. I mean, each one has its own set of rules. Are you a friend of this for turkeys or big game? I have used that for both. Yeah, we've had some success. So I would say as far as the turkeys go, I can't speak to go into the east side of the country at all because I've never done that. And this isn't relevant information either as far as like timely. It could be relevant, but we used to go to Nebraska and it was the easiest thing ever to get permission. Absolutely. I've heard now it's not the same, which wouldn't surprise me because there's so many people going there, but we were going, I think, before it was such a, I don't know, trendy is the right word or maybe just people knew about it. We were doing it before, I think that was really a thing. And we were, I mean, finding turkeys and getting access to hunting turkeys was no problem. Two. Well, and, but there was places that we hunted there that fell in the same category. We didn't have to get permission. We filled out a card and we were able to go. Yeah, I remember the one. There was like 150 or 200 birds. Yeah. We had all the hands come to us and not a, none of the tops. Yeah. Yeah. And we found out what shit nobody had been through their shit hunting either. I mean, we couldn't believe that it was public, you know, or basically public when we, because that's why we, if we hadn't spent as long as we did trying to make sure that it was legal to be there. We probably, if we would have just trusted what, but back then we did not have on X. We didn't have the capability. So I was trying to match the map to what we were looking at and the birds were to our left and I was afraid there was a fence right in front of us that we could only go to that fence. I was like, I know that this isn't going to be included. And then finally we found the full map and we found the full map, which was up by their house. Then we came back and I'm like, holy cow, although, because there was a bunch of strudders and we first saw them, there was like 20 of them. And then when we got back, the weather changed on us and they quit. But the access and then you and I went a few years ago, not that long ago. So only four or five years ago, I guess it was. We packed up and just went back to Nebraska and knocked on doors. But we had an idea, you know, where there would be turkeys and that kind of stuff. But we did not have an idea. We didn't use raised hunting as the premise for it. We just knocked on a door and said, you know, we're looking to see if you guys would allow for some permission. And I think we got permission on three places is what we had. Excuse me, what we ended up with. We only hunted one and killed three birds in a weekend. So I think that kind of stuff can still be done. It's not as easy. I agree. I don't think it's going to be as simple. One of the things that we had going for us back when we first started hunting in Nebraska was they needed to get rid of some birds. Everyone hated them. They had they were way overpopulated by a lot. Yeah. And so everyone was sure you can hunt. Sure, you can hunt. Just kill them all. That was their rule. You know, now they're suffering just like a lot of the Midwest is some numbers are down. So keep that in mind. If Nebraska is one that you've been looking at and you've heard a lot about it, it's without a doubt, it's for a reason. And there's a lot of public ground out there where we were hunting out that we never used it, utilized it because when we would go for the early archery season, the birds were all down on the public on the private ground. Yeah. We weren't up in the mountains, but they all those birds would move back into there and guys would tell us of really good, you know, public land hunting. And that was national forest and stuff back there. So well, as far as I think just to conclude turkeys because there's not a ton to them, it's a matter of determining what species you want to hunt and where you want to go. And then figure out whatever the they're all different. Like we said, every state has something a little different for laws or regulations. Figure out if it's a if you need to put in for it or if you there's a limited amount of tags, go get your tag, call them. I think that if you write a list down the questions, call whatever DNR or Fish and Game, whatever their place is called and ask them all the questions if you can't find it on their website. And then from there, just get a hold of anybody you know that could maybe live in that area or ask around, maybe ask like what you said, ask one of the on called biologists or whatever. You can read, there's a lot of forums and stuff that you can find where people have gone and at least get an idea. Other than that though, it's sometimes it's a lot of fun to go. You have no idea and you're just like, okay, this area looks pretty like it would be pretty good on a map. So I'm going to drive and I'm going to go see if we can't reach the bird here or there or something like that. See if we can't get permission. And it's in my opinion that doing it that way is just a lot more laid back of a hunt. There's not much to it. If you're going to do that, think it incredibly. Yeah, I think if you're going to do that though, I would be still trying to make sure there's some public around, at least in the city. Just in case, just to fall back on if you needed to. And you could even plan on going straight to somewhere that's public. Yeah. It's just so you know that it's there. The one turkey that I would mention that you're probably going to have to pay for is an Osceola or an Osceola. You want to pronounce it because when you head down that far south into Florida there, there's only part of Florida where they exist. And when you get down into there, from what I understood, I couldn't find a place where I felt like I could go and publicly hunt them. And those guys know that they have that bird, that one species is there and it's in a very small area. And so you're probably looking at a couple thousand dollars. I don't know. And you can't. Is that the only place there in the US? It's only like this southern half of Florida. Yeah, of Florida. It's very small. Oh, Moseley from Alabama. She's one of the ones I was telling you from that was going to South Carolina and stuff. And he went to Florida and tried to do it public. Right. Said it was absolutely terrible because everything that's public is so thick that you can't even walk. Like you have to try to crawl through everything. And he's like, if you're going to go, you need to find somewhere to be able to go. I do think you might be able to knock on doors. Yeah. But I mean, have an idea. How big are the parcels though? I don't know. You feel like depending on what I don't know exactly where it's at in the state, can't be that big. That's what I'm thinking. So I've only been there in 100 of them once. And it was a freaking blast. Those birds respond to a decoy like no other. But the key was we were hunting a pasture ground within all this thick stuff, you know, because while we were there, a guy shot a bird that we ended up losing. And we tracked that bird for like 300 yards. And I'm like, this bird could be 10 feet from us. And we would have no clue because it was palmettos and then everything that you're walking through, there's a chance that there is something that's going to bite you. Whether it be a gator or a snake, there was lots of hogs there. There was all kinds of stuff. So it was it. I would. What is their population like? I feel like it's not hard to get a tag. If they're that small, small, I think you can kill too. I think you can. It's just over the counter. They just don't have that many hundred or what does it do? You got to put in, but I want to say that the quote is pretty high. You know, you got interesting. There must be a lot of birds. Yeah, I don't think they have a shortage of turkeys. I think they have plenty of. I would think that it would be hard to regulate that with it's being the only place for that species in one small area. But I can kill two. I think you can. I only shot one. Yep. Yeah, I think you could. I think you could have got a second tag. But now some of that can change. Yeah. Make sure you check your check. Here's the thing. And I don't mind putting that out there publicly for people. Shoot us. Shoot someone like us or shoot us a message. If you've got a place you're thinking of going and you say, hey, look, have you guys ever hunted here, you know, or hunted anywhere close to there? Or have you hunted this state? We'll certainly try to help people. We do that all the time. You know, you also need a double check even us. I can. We'll tell you that. We'll answer. We'll give you as best advice as we can, but just make sure that you, because if we may have you hunted there 10 years ago, it could be a part of it. Yeah, absolutely. So we can be a starting point for you. So that's turkeys. I think if we're going to go into everything else, when we started getting into big game, the biggest of the big game other than the moose is the elk. And you know, that scares a lot of people. And just so that everyone out there understands, I did not always live in Iowa where I live now. I didn't always live in Montana where I lived previous to this for 20 years. I grew up on the East Coast. I'm just like the bunch of you out there that had no clue how to go out West. And the fear was just don't even mess with it. Just don't even consider trying to go do it. I have no clue. Fortunately for me, I ended up moving out there. And so I learned firsthand how this works and how. And so there are a couple things. So I think too, just to preface this, let's try to put ourselves in the situation of someone who has never lived out West, doesn't know anybody out West, doesn't understand units, zones, draw odds, anything, which is going to be a challenge for us. And let's try and be careful too, because we can't go over every state's everything. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, where do you start? So I have no, I want to go out on a Western hunt, on my first Western hunt, but I have no clue what to do. Do I start on pick a Western state's fishing game? Do I try to find somebody? Where do I do? The fortunate part is that there are podcasts like this. There are videos that you can watch. There are companies and things like that that didn't exist back when I started hunting. One of the biggest ones that I know of, and there's more than one, but there are a couple that I'll mention, hunt and fool. That's what these guys do. They produce a magazine and they're there to help people put in for draw odds. Now they go so far as to they do the draws for you. They'll tell you what to put in. Okay, so what's draw odds though? Draws are like you. Before you get into that, hold on. What are some other options to find? Okay, other get like a, to figure out to narrow it down at least where you're going to. Well, the first thing I determined. I think if I was in this day and age, I'm old school. I would probably start with a YouTube search of elk hunting. You know how to YouTube search? Old school is YouTube now. No, no, no. Old school is going to be me calling them. That's where I was going is the first thing that I'm going to do is I'm going to look on YouTube and I'm going to see if I can find someone that has hunted. I'll use two years ago, I killed an oryx. When I drew that tag, I went, okay, I need some information. I know nothing about an oryx. So I was right back in the boat that the guy sitting in West Virginia is. So I went to YouTube and I started looking, well, I could find people that had killed stuff, killed an oryx or a gams buck in Africa. I could even find guys that were killing them in the States, but they're all killing them with a rifle. I could not find a single person that killed one with a bow and arrow outside of the missile range. And I was like, okay, I'm calling now, I know a lot of people in the industry. So I started calling guys that I thought would have information. One in particular, I'll now use his name because he's probably the most prolific hunter that I know. And that's David Westmoreland. And I called him and he hadn't done it. And I was like, well, now I'm really screwed here. I don't know where it is. But my point is I called the state and asked them what they could tell me. And they didn't really give me any information other than what I already knew, that they told me where the oryx had been introduced. They gave me a little rundown of what the terrain was like, and then a lot of these animals have moved in and out of there. So basically it was like fly by the seat of my pants, hunt. I ended up going through an outfitter, but they had never taken a bow hunter. And so part of it was you had to. That's the only way you could get the tag is you went through the outfitter or it increased your draw odds. Draw odds again are. So when you want to put in for a state that you want to go hunting. So I can't just go to Montana and buy a tag and hunt. No, that would be considered over the counter. Okay. Okay. So some states are that way. Which one would be Colorado? You know, so that's the only one that I know of that is truly over the counter. So for Al. For Al. Can I hunt the entire state? No. So then how do I figure that out? Okay, so well you got to go, you get the rules and regs out or you look it up on your phone. It's too small for me. So I use my computer and or get them to mail them to you. So you can actually sit and go through it. And what it's going to tell you is they're they they break the state into zones or units. Typically, every state is actually broken in. I think all the all the western states have out. Well, I mean, I didn't even know I was I was broken into zones, but I don't pay attention to it because I'm not ever putting in for it. You know what I mean? So like somebody that was wanting to come to Iowa would have to understand like they would ask me what is what zone are you guys in or do you recommend it? I'm like, I don't know what zone our house is in statewide. We don't know as a resident. Yes. Statewide for them. We're like, Oh, okay. Here's the zone. So pretty much, I mean, as far as I know, all the states have zones and you can look up zone maps of like hunting zone maps, but be careful because those zones may change for white tails, elk, turkeys. You know, you may have a zone one is a big area that's turkeys. Don't think that that's Oh, I hunted zone one for turkeys. So I'm going to put in for zone one for elk when I want to go back and hunt Wyoming, because you may end up in the wrong spot. And many of them have codes that you need to follow, meaning they'll have a three or a four digit nine one nine or nine hunt. I'll use Montana for example. If it ends in 900, that means it's an archery only tag. They'll be things that you really have to watch. Other ones I elk. I think the way Wyoming's is it's e dum, e dash something and then the number and that gives you the zone there. All of this means something. You don't have to get too technical with it other than, I mean, I was able to, I've kept up with it now for 25 years and I built me a spreadsheet. And so that spreadsheet, I have each state on there that I wanted to put in for when the deadline, when that when it opens and when the deadline is and what it costs me. Okay, because a lot of them, what's going to end up happening is you can't draw the first year. If it's not over the counter, there's a chance you're not going to draw a tag. Almost all of them, not all of them require you to buy a license to put in. So you buy a hunting license, sometimes it's 50 bucks, sometimes it's 150 bucks. And then that gives you the ability to put in for what you don't get that money back. That's just forfeited because you need to have a license to put in for a unit or a zone for a species. I thought some of them did refund like 80% or something. Not the license. Typically if they make you buy the license, the license is done. Okay, but they don't all make you buy the license. Correct. They don't make you pay partial of the permit. So let's just say it's 100 bucks for a state I want to put in for the license. I buy that that costs me the 100 bucks, but it's $800 if I want an elk tag in a particular unit. I've put in that 800 bucks and I get 80% of it back. Montana did it that way for a while. They've changed it since then to where now it's a flat fee, I think it is. And it's not as expensive. And that one of the reasons that they did that because if a guy or a gal wanted to put in for four or five states, I know guys that took out loans. They would take out a loan every year. It would cost them between $10,000 and $20,000 to have enough money to put in for all these tags. And then they would just pay the loan back off of what they didn't draw. How many times have they put in for? Well, you think about at one point it was $750 to put in for a non-resident moose goat or sheep tag in Montana. And I was, each one was $750 bucks. Oh, there's $750 a piece. Yes. And I was putting in for four of us. Yeah, you, wow. Damn. So that alone right there was almost five grand. That's not good considering the fact that I think I lost all those points. Well, now many states don't do that to you, but some do. Montana does, right? Montana. Montana, if you don't put in for two years in a row, they wipe you clean. Okay, so same now. They didn't use to now they do. So hold on before we keep going any further. This is benefiting me too for all you folks out there. I grew up in Montana too, but I've always, I've never got to hunt Montana, unfortunately. So I'm, this is, I mean, I've been around these two talking about it and everything, but so from start to now, we have number one, you had to determine what you're wanting to do as far as you can go. Elkhont, Mjaldir hunt, whatever you're going to do. Determine that. And then you got to determine an area as far as, okay, I want the northwest corner, I want southwest corner, I want whatever state you come up with. And that's come from, you can YouTube people that have gone in haunted Montana or haunted Arizona, all sorts of different things, but determine that. And then you have to go through and determine what, like how, what kind of a unit you're trying to find. So you need to find your units, a unit map, and then you need to determine, okay, if I am willing to wait five or six years, you can find this as well on a lot of websites, I think, is like draw, like what your chances of drawing are. It's an average of three to five years or whatever it is. And so once you determine where you're going, what you're going for, determine if you're willing to wait five years, if you want a unit that's going to be a two year draw or something like that. And keep in mind that those units are probably going to correlate to how long it takes you to draw as far as quality of hunting. So if it's a two year tag, it's probably going to be quite a few hunters because it's going to be pretty common or pretty easy to draw. It's a 10, 15, 20 year draw. You're probably going to have world class hunting in certain spots of it if you can find the right areas. And then along with that, figuring out private, public, outfit or whatever else, right? Correct. My own tracks so far. But you need to keep in mind, which I have two things to do. One, you can't be like a crewing points and then go use two of those points. Right? So it's all or nothing. So like if you're going to go to Wyoming, you want to wait till a 10 point unit, you can't accrue six points and say, okay, well, I want to go general this year. I'm going to use two and take away from those four. You see what I'm saying? And what have you thought of that? I've had people ask me this. That's the only reason that I'm saying it. And like it's so they're like, if I have to either wait the entire time or I got to go to a not as good as a unit. Yeah. Yes. That's what you have to do. I think it could help a lot of people here and they're not a partner and don't work with them or anything. But I think that I'm going to plug them because I use it myself and I pay for it myself. Go hunt does all of this. So I think I pay either pay a hundred bucks a year or 150 bucks a year or something. But it gives you, you can put in, you know, I'm a non-resident. I have X amount of points. I want archery. I want this or whatever. And then you can like click on a unit and it'll give you your draw odds and everything. So it, and honestly, all of that information is available through the states. You can go get all that for free. But they've just compiled it into one place. And if you ever use a lot of states website, yeah, I'll pay a hundred and fifty bucks for that all day long. I've got no problem with that because it's much easier. Okay. So hold on. I want to clarify something that he said, all your points, it's either all or nothing per state. Yeah. So if you had six points in X state, let's just say Montana or Wyoming. But you had three points in Montana. You could go to Montana and hunt if you had a spot where you thought you could get in for three points. You're not going to lose your six points in Wyoming. Each state stays separate. And then one thing you should add to that because I know this confuses a lot of people too. Tell me what the difference is between a bonus point and a preference point. So the difference and you'll see it marked on that. And there is a difference. There is a big difference. So a bonus point means that your name goes in twice, three times, four times, five times. I mean, if you have five years of points, then you and everyone else that has five points are all going in five times. Okay. So what happens is it's a random draw out of that entire pool is what the bonus point is. As opposed to a preference point where preference point is states that work their units by, okay, first they're going to look at who has the most points for this unit. He or she is going to draw. Okay. They take that person. That's truly a preference point. So you want to look at the difference because preference points do mean more than bonus points. I've been putting in for Moose, goat and sheep since the inception in Montana. And the reason that I've never drawn is because I'm still going through a bonus point system. I will you've drawn moves. I drew the moose before the system actually started. Oh, okay. But they had not started it yet. So preference point system depending could actually be beneficial. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Preference point is the way you'd like to go. At least you could plan a little bit. You could say. Unless you're someone like Whalen who's just super lucky and draws everything you freaking put in for. Yeah. Or you're the guy that's not afraid to spend a whole lot of money on the super tag raffles and stuff like that. But you didn't even have to worry about that though if you've got that kind of money. I guess that's what Whalen does. But so my example or what I would tell someone that is looking at this. I would pick a state pick a place and say, okay, do I want to do this in 10 years, 15 years. I don't care. I just know I want to hunt this. This looks like I would do a lot of research. Find that spot. And that's the one I'm investing in. And I can tell you that mine has been Utah. I now have I think 13 or 14 points for Utah. For Utah. Okay. It's about time for me to start cashing it. But. What do you mean by cashing it? Meaning I'm going to pull the trigger and say I'm going to go to Utah and hunt somewhere because I can now draw. I got enough points. So though for somebody because right now you're saying like you you have you gotten all those points that you haven't been putting in. Because because what I do is I buy a license and then some of them will give you the option to not try to draw just getting a preference. I just buy a preference point. You know. And so that's what I've been doing. I have not even attempted to draw a particular unit because I knew the units that I was looking at I needed at least 12 points. But you don't have to pick the unit right? Yeah. Yeah. So somebody you can be going on crewing points in all these states without having to know where you're going. It would be a little cheaper doing it that way too would it not because you're not having to necessarily put in like if you select that option it's not going to charge you for your actual putting in the are you. No, but it's not saving you any money either. No. I mean you're still I still got a buy. I mean Utah for example you got a buy license and then it's $50 for the preference point. And so if I how much is it going to be it's going to be however much for your license and then when you actually say okay I'm putting in for this unit how much is it going to be. Probably I don't even know now but probably pushing $1000. Your tag is going to question somewhere between $600 and $1000. So that's my point though is if you're just going and knowing that you're not going to be going. If you're just trying to get points if you do that it's like 50 bucks. It depends on where it is. Right. 50 bucks for your your situation to get a point every year as opposed to if you put in every year like hey I'm trying to draw this every single year you're going to be putting however much the tag is worth and then you get if you get some back you're going to get whatever their system is. I don't know this for a fact but I don't think that you even I don't think that's the case. If you don't draw you don't draw they don't charge you. You know it's one of those things you put in for you and then if you don't draw you don't they don't charge you. So before you get any further to so you got to find your place or your your animal you're hunting the place you're hunting and the regs as far as what the draw is all all those things that we're going over now also pay attention to dates. That is something that was a lot of people don't think of because like right now elk is not till September in most places. I don't even know all the dates for that. Like the draws are already come out like and it's what is what is the day what you say May 9th and I think a lot of them came like April then that they know. Wyoming actually December I think or January one is when it opens. It's the first time about when they drew it the results. No to put in. Yeah I don't think their results come till June. Maybe not but no matter what it is though there's a get there's a time period where they say okay this day is when it opens for the following season to be able to put in this is your deadline date and then this is your results time frame or because I don't think it's always a specific date for when they draw isn't just like that week or something. No those usually that's okay. It is a day. They'll have it like either be the first Saturday or that it'll open or it'll be a day. What you need to pay attention to is wherever you're going what what when do they open it up when does it close because if you miss it you're screwed. You're you're you're you're waiting till the next year. So that's and that's something that you have to pay attention because I would have never thought of that until you're like oh I actually have to draw us they actually have a pretty decent deadline on the Wyoming gives you the ability to buy a preference tag through the summer yeah by our mean by a preference point you know so I don't think they make you buy the license they don't make you buy the license you know it's just fifty dollars. Yep. So anyhow so I'm sure we've like stirred the mud for a lot of people. Well I feel bad because I've tried to go back over it because honestly I'm trying to remember all of it too because I can answer a lot of these things in general for people like don't until you really do it I don't feel like you're going to really start connecting it super well so I'm trying to for everybody listening trying to it's not kind of it's not simple but I'm trying to simplify it because there is a system you can go through as far as you need to know where you're going what you're hunting like I've been saying or trying to explain and finding the information for it it's not going to be like a ooh this is going on Iowa let's put in for Doug. This is why everybody in their mother hunts Colorado because it's the only state it's the only true over the counter state for elk where they can go and they can purchase a tag on the day they want to go hunting and then they can go out into the woods and they can hunt as a non-resident it's the only state. They don't see anything may not hear anything but you're elk. You'll see something you'll see a lot of other people. Well and that's what I remember the one time I went there I talked to guys and they're like you know just you just talk just cordial you know talk about it hundreds of them and be like hey you know how you guys doing they're like oh you know this is a good area we've done pretty good we've killed two elk in the last five years and I'm like oh my lord like these guys don't they haven't gotten the experience anything else which maybe that's average but for what for us and what we've been doing on public land as well we're killing an elk every year the amount of effort has varied but we're going to kill week one and that's also come from a lot of experience of understanding okay I could put in for this unit and this state and it's not going to cost me an arm and a leg and I can get it in two years or something along those lines which was even general in Montana we were killing them in public but there you guys live there too yeah you're not having to sit there deal with all the draw system. Oh it's not simple at all I mean it's like it's not it is going to be something that so I think that would be the next thing I would tell I would think that they somebody would ask is or that we would give them the advice is don't go accrue ten points and not go on an elk hunt at all and then cash those ten points in and go to a really bad ass unit with no idea what you're doing and then I guess if somebody was going to go on their first elk hunt would you tell them to go are they better off because there's going to be a ton of guys listen to this that pray they don't want to go with an outfit or you know they want to go and they want to do it themselves they want to learn and my hats off to you because I know if I was in your position I'd be the exact same guy but I do think that they should heed your advice on this because I know how you feel on it and I think it's really insightful and we'll cut off the learning curve for people hugely so you want to speak to that real quick pay the outfit or yeah at least for your first couple like first time or if someone hears a thing so what the average guy does that lives not in a western state is they go I don't want to I don't have $5,000 or $10,000 whatever that may be to go on an elk hunt but I got $2,500 I can buy my license I can pay for the fuel and I'm going to go to the over the counter place in Colorado and I'm going to go out there and I'm going to get to see what it's all like you're not really seeing what it's like you're getting to realize what it's like to drive out to the west which is awesome the first time you drive out there is like holy cow every bird that you see is different every map snow-capped mountain you know or you can really learn a whole lack of a lot no because you're not getting the experience and so if you're the guy that takes our advice and or you're doing it the way that I was talking about where you're eventually going to go on this really good hunt when you get to that really good hunt you don't want to get there and not and not be ready for it and then you just wasted 10 years at $150 a year for the license you already had $1,500 just in the licenses involved in there you know so you want to be ready for that so what I tell people is instead of spending three years going to Colorado and to see or hear your first bull bugle that just now cost you $6,000 $7,000 over those three years go one time pay the outfitter fee to hear the elk to see the elk to learn from someone now there's a you got to be careful because there's a lot of outfitters out there that are very good and there's a lot out there that aren't very good or not as reputable you got to ask the questions and if you don't know what the questions are you need to get ahold of someone like us that it says hey man ask them how many elk hunters have they taken because they're going to tell you they're going to give you success based on success they're not going to give you success based on I want to talk to the guy who didn't kill one with his bow I want to know you know what does he have to say to say he say opportunity yeah did he say it was friggin worth it man I blew it I did this wrong or whatever I don't want to talk to the one guy that went one time and killed a 370 inch ball now would this be this would this would possibly be a dumb question if I were to be asking you that you tell me that can I go call an outfitter in a rule thumb could be okay if I asked hey do you have any of your past hunters contact that I could get a hold of they should reference if they don't give it to me like no I don't have any of those it's probably red flag yeah if they do give them to me well now you get prey looking at some of them but that's a thing to ask right absolutely yeah which and you do need to be insightful that some people are terrible hunters so you can't always put on the outfitter because we've taken people before that great guys good people they they were meant to be farmers but that same time you can if if a outfit is being honest with you they'll give you an opportunity like what the opportunity percentages were and stuff like for you guys when you guys were guiding you guys were 100% on shot opportunity most you had what the five six guys that were launching arrows and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and that is not your guys fault you got the shots still so on an outfitter side they they can still tell you okay we had ten bow hunters fifteen rifle hunters and this many people got opportunities or didn't get opportunities we also had guys though that just like moving when they shouldn't be and stuff that that would have been a shot opportunity had they had a bit a little better understanding what they were doing and I would go a little farther than I would go deeper than because I wanted someone to understand what they were getting into and that meant here's what I'm going to tell you I can't guarantee you're going to kill a bull can't guarantee how big the bull is going to be what I'm going to tell you is we're averaging 320 inch bulls okay that means some were smaller some were larger but at the same time we've put all those bulls at 40 yards or less that's our goal is we don't consider to call in if we don't get them in to that close close range so don't come here expecting that you have to shoot 60 70 80 yards because you're out west you don't shoot any better out west than you do in your backyard wherever you live yep and so that was what we would tell them is you give us that opportunity to get them to that point then we should be able to get them here now we had some people that shot farther than that that's up to them I couldn't stop them you know they felt confident in doing it they filled their tag or you know but at the same time as the outfitter when I was doing it if you didn't if you did not make a good shot you're gonna hear from me if you took a shot when I didn't want you to you know you're also done you're done if you draw a blood you're done yep so another thing to look for is what you just heard how he was explaining how dad was explaining this or for you guys David was explaining this is coming from a previous outfitter and so from somebody not being his son if I'm calling an outfitter and what I'm going off of here is actually somebody that we're going to be going with at the end of this month is very similar to how he does this right and you're the way you're telling me is you're giving me tips or you're giving me example and illustration of what it's going to be like and so when they're open with their information and they're kind of like hey well we've had this many people come through and this many shots and they're not BS in you just trying to say oh we're really successful and they're giving you information like we count our stuff as this and we have parameters so unless it gets to like this point we don't consider that as a successful hunter we don't consider that as a calling so when we're referring to a hundred percent shot opportunity that means that we've gotten any single person that has come in here a shot that they preferred and they got to take and so when in my opinion I mean this is for life but when an outfitters being open and honest to you about those kinds of things that's a green flag that's something that you're like okay I could probably trust this guy a little bit more and I don't mistake that for BS either like we'll do this this this this this this okay but but and here's the one thing I can't guarantee this most of the time the outfitter that you're talking about the one that you're looking for is not going to be the cheapest nope and that's what you're paying for exactly and if he's going got a few openings left because he's normally booked up repeat customers those are the type of things that you're looking for is those guys that and where you guys are getting ready to go on this bear hunt I got a great feeling for you guys having been an outfitter and talking to this outfitter you know I think you guys are going to be in for the very first thing that the outfitter should be able to do is describe to you a day in the life tell me what a what a full day looks like and then ask if it rains if it snows if it does this if you know what do we do you know what they say hey we tough it out you know that's why you take your lunch because you're not coming back that's the stuff you want to know you don't want to get out there and go prepared yes that is well we used to send the hunters a list this is a checklist of everything you need to have but the other thing that that you might want to ask is what are you going to be hunting on meaning private or public because it's not uncommon to go and pay somebody on a paying outfitter in the West and you're going to be hunting public land so that's something that you because I think over here in back east if you're paying an outfitter you're not you're not private right no one else should be hunting there yep so that's something you need to be conscious of a hundred percent that's a great point because in it and it'll surprise you when all of a sudden you realize what do you want there's someone hunting here well yeah this is public people people can just come here you don't want to be caught off guard with that one right and if you don't know you're going to be really mad oh I remember when that when I was talking about I was in Colorado I remember I can't remember the name of the outfit but I remember pulling the parking line it was the video I sent you like 43 trucks or something 43 flipping trucks at one trail head and there was like two or three outfitter things there I'm like I guarantee you whoever book that is pissed oh yeah because they're in a zoo back there so stuff like that is important but I think that but then again we don't know who knows maybe they unloaded the truck and had horses and they rode right past everyone and got into an area that they're like just hang on you know because it's going to get better from here because all these guys are hunting this place and then when we get to where we're going watch what happens I mean I don't know I wasn't there but but so part of it is a trust factor but you definitely want to have a right you you don't want any hidden surprises surprises you want to ask every question that you can think of asking and I do I think just to add real quick because I do think that I know the stubborn guys out there like me that are listening to this are still thinking I could go out there and figure it out and there's what I'm going to tell you is this is what so for how all these guys that are running the east side of the country are always telling us how hard it is to kill turkeys there and everything so this is my comparison for you I want to take a brand new hunter that's never even been into the state has no idea what they're doing and go and drop them on public land and give them the most educated birds that you can find and tell me how successful you think that they're going to be that's what you're asking to do except even harder because the west is way way bigger than the east that you're now trying to you're just setting yourself up for a very very difficult hunt without any kind of information going into that you could get really lucky and get into out but like as we elk them move 10 miles a day it's you you want some insight and don't get me wrong there's a guy out there there's probably a whole bunch of them that are like just going out west will be a good enough and accept that you know say hey man if that's what you just want that experience to go and see what it feels like for it for sure that first year going by yourself is going to gain you a little bit of knowledge I tell people all the time go on an antelope hunt go on a deer hunt something that's less expensive just to get across those borders and into the mountains and see and feel what it feels like that also gives you if you can start with like one I think that's a really good one for people that they could start with is like an antelope hunt if you can find the right areas to do it where it's I mean if you're to go with your bow it can either be really simple or really really really difficult depending on how you do it but that's a good one to it's not typically super hard to get a tag you can find a place to do it and it gets you to the west and in my opinion as long as even if you go once or twice or something and you're not hunting elk or you're not hunting high country mule deer or whatever the heck you're wanting to do eventually it gives you that idea in your head okay I know a little bit of what what the terrain is going to be like I know how I can go about some things and maybe I even got a scout a little bit when I was there for another animal that I could come back to or the greatest thing is you run into someone at the where you buy your license or you run into someone where you're eating or if you go and drink a beer or whatever night and you know somewhere at a pub or whatever you meet someone you meet the mail man you meet the UPS driver you those are the best ones oh bus drivers like I can tell you if anyone had ever met the bus drivers where we were outfitting and guiding they knew we're all the elk where you know they had a four-wheel drive bus they had like the coolest bus on earth we wanted lifted wait legit legit yes yeah it was like the coolest thing ever I wanted to drive it like monster truck tires on this thing win a friend yeah you're kidding no Matt bought it the guy that I was for the school you could yeah he was on the board or whatever to help you know like spec it out or whatever and put together just cuz or cuz they actually needed it yeah they actually needed it what the part that kills me is here in Winifred Montana where we used to outfit out of it's one of the most rural places in the world I mean it was I think there was like 22 I think it was 22 miles long and there was eight homes or something like that they had the fastest internet in anywhere that you've ever been because they came in at one point and said we need to figure out how to connect these people that are disconnected and so they was the military bases no no no they just got they went pick these places who got that I don't know but I was so pissed cuz here I'd sit down with ten miles out of one hundred said I won and no one and Matt is in the middle of nowhere I mean they filmed some of the survivor no survivor the two guys yeah yeah the cheaters yeah they were hunting mice or whatever it's sued for libel now I don't know but anyhow they hunted there for lieable they filmed it there libel what's that mean it's like slander oh well it's not slander if it's true yeah I am not saying I agree with what they did I don't anyhow my point I'm just saying that they filmed there because it was so remote you might as well fully gas them now all right well so we you know what I'm talking about who a you're the one that told us about it oh but Jim told dad I think Jim Brennan oh oh no you're taught you meet you're talking about the two guys what they did they find the mites yeah yeah no they use the tractor picked up the bales yes so these guys if anybody saw that scene I just ruined it for you because I watched it on TV yeah I was like are you kidding me because dual survival is I don't even think they're one day was like an Indian type guy and the other guy was it was hippie hippie and a military guy but they would go do survival stuff and everywhere well I just remember that they were sleeping in the lodge yeah they ended up at at the place and they guide the guide elk the out here and they end up there and they're staying in a lodge first off so they're not staying in the tents that they're telling everybody they're surviving in and then they turn around in the food they have to eat they're not catching nothing they've filmed it so that they had a tractor coming and pick up all the big round bales they would catch all the mice and then act like they were catching them with a tractor there keep the tractor out of it was was it you and I playing pool with that ball oh yeah I was the most scary moments of my rolled off the top up there yeah did you catch it out of playing on the second floor of this lodge now we're just getting a story time this is worth it and there was the was it a replica or was it I think it was the one the world that world record muzzleloader cheap yeah no it was a replica of that yeah but there was a lot of stuff in like there was yeah lots of pre-start bones that were in there yeah because they found lots of dinosaur bones and stuff they actually had the head that was on his dining room table was neat the it was a new species yeah the guy that that found it on his place named it yeah I was like it was like a triceratops looking thing because like I remember we walked into his house and the thing was flipping it was legit though yeah but they gave it to him like as a gift for letting him dig there yeah and he's like I don't really know what else to do with it because it's so big and so it's probably worse too much it's gigantic but anyway so East and I were playing pool and on the second floor you know there's like all the beds and the and they put the pool table up there and then right off the edge of the of the like loft deal this main living room is there there's an elk mount like right there and then there's a glass case it's got this replica of the world record muzzleboat cheap yeah well taken off that was killed there and then all these really really expensive nice artifacts and all this stuff in this glass case it was like a little music literally a museum that was probably worth a lot of money right there like a lot of money well I think I hit it and I I tried to stop not very good no you were shocked oh that's what it was yeah I just saw I hit the ball too hard and it bounced off the table and he seems like on that side of the table and he's just shocked and he's just like and he's watching the frickin ball it was a slow motion it was the eight ball to and it rolls and it goes off the edge it hits the elk back if it goes to the left it breaks all and goes through the right we're good lands dead center rolls to the frickin right and just lands on the floor it was terrifying that has nothing to do with what you need to learn for hunting out of state but it was players are Montana experience what we did do is try I talked to Matt and told him you need to put something up here to keep the ball from rolling off or that's gonna get busted he's like you know I thought of that before you guys aren't the first ones you know you would have fixed it after the first one imagine being the cook down there and just having a pool gosh that was scary yep so did we I don't know I mean no we did not go super in depth but I think that hopefully we I think if we go to in-depth it's just so much really confusing like it's honestly you could do a podcast per freaking state for sure and it's I think like even I know I understand a little bit better one other thing I guess we could touch on a little bit would be landowner tags yeah that's always an option prices and an option for you or sometimes it is a benefit a beneficial like I mean it's not that much difference yeah you can get there you have an issue Nick yeah you keep your mouth quiet over there benefit all we're gonna put that into our making note of these for our vocab podcast episode we do have issues with words you know boys the drinking yeah yeah we drink on the podcast and it gets third words is water I promise I don't know I'm sure drunk tag by now we know he hasn't been drunk in a while so landowner tags you know I think there's a bit of a misconception there everybody thinks that landowner tags are gonna be a minimum 10 15 20 thousand to like one of those premiere unit no gosh dang it the the one tag like it's governor tag governor tag I was gonna say the government yeah governor tags on a landowner no I think though a lot of people relate that oh I can go buy this tag if you're willing to pay enough to not have to draw yeah so two different things yeah governor tags landowner tags not same thing and landowner tags in some states are transferable which means a landowner can sell that tag to somebody else that could sell it to you and there's lots of brokerages online where you can find that and then other like the scalpers in an NFL game yep and then there's other states where they're not transferable so you may not be able to get a landowner tag there no matter what you do I believe Wyoming is one of those states but those are those can be an option and you can get them much more affordable you know sometimes they can be three four or five grand but don't be expecting to go to the you know the best units that's just same thing and then they can you can also find them for 15 or 20 thousand absolutely and those are your really good units and probably more closer to that side than the other so there's lots of different options I guess and lots of different ways to go about it again if you have questions shoot us a message we'll try to answer what we can I'm I'm I feel like I'm best at Wyoming Montana Idaho's not that difficult either Utah Arizona Arizona was not really difficult either and then New Mexico I mean so there's six of the probably 12 states or something like that that I mean and some of the other ones like Nebraska and places like that they have a once in a lifetime tag some states you can't even put in for it one of the greatest ones honestly is crazy is can is Pennsylvania yeah ten bucks it's ten dollars to put in for elk tag there out of state out of state yeah your draw it's gotta be it's just like everyone else's there's no ten bucks so I guess yeah I mean for ten dollars what happens if you actually draw a world-class bull they're killing giant bulls I just I agree it just feels wrong yeah doesn't feel like you have a pretty big yes yeah and and I just opened another state now I'm not gonna be able to think of it bold the brass is a once in a lifetime Missouri Missouri just opened they opened a season yeah I think it was Missouri that really elk see a very limited like five tags or something like I think it was Missouri Arkansas's had elk for a long time maybe it was our it was one of those I was been open for a while oh no so it's brand new like this last year was the first year doing it or something could be because it's right on the Missouri border where those elk are the very first wild elk I ever saw was actually in my it was in Arkansas what are the odds of that I would have never thought of that would almost ruin it for me no when you've never seen one well just because like you want it to be in the wet stir in the atmosphere you know and then like here in Arkansas I'm thinking of you know it was fun pou dung dude and there's an L I think a freaking long mire in his front porch yeah every time the show I heard elk out there mom and I had driven to Bass Pro shops from where we lived in because it was in Missouri and it was five hours drive in and so I told her on our way back I said let's go through this area because they've released some elk up there and she was like oh okay you know so windy mountain roads and we were taking our time and we're coming down through there and I look over in this field and I was like oh my gosh I just saw an elk and she's like no way and I'm like yeah there's two or three of them and they're bulls so we park like way down the road we come walking back up the road with binoculars like creep in and everything there they are right there there's three right while they're a mile away and so the first thing I'm looking for is a fence I'm thinking there it's a high fence we couldn't be this lucky yeah you know and then because they're like 150 200 yards away this is before they've ever been hunted we could have done jumping jacks on the road or whatever they don't care no one ever mess with them but I was treating them like they were like the craziest thing ever but that was the very first we saw three rag horn bowls and and Arkansas that's how that's cool I kind of want to double check this misery thing yeah right I think that it I think that's enough information for one podcast for everybody well hopefully we have not flooded you with too much information we try to bring you some of the basic stuff to hopefully man if nothing else get you interested in thinking about going and doing it the last thing that I would want us to do is just like deter someone from because every guy and not and I just for bow hunters is where I go if you're a bow hunter you owe it to yourself to hear it bull bugle at least one time you got to go do it and the reason I say bow hunters is because that's typically when the seasons are a few places like Colorado offers a rifle hunt during the rut but most of them don't so anyhow thank you guys for tuning in I'm sure we created a lot of questions with this one hopefully you'll send in your yes you mean yeah shoot in questions and we'll try to answer what we can they do for that we say raised honey is signing off and thank you guys again we appreciate it it's a lot of fun. Okay. Okay. Okay.