Recover Every Turkey - Don't Shoot Them In The Vitals

All right fellas guys and gals welcome back to the raised hunting podcast and we are here with our two special guests Special one special two and so upgraded. Yeah, that's because you still have gotten your Name tags that just means that you're more special Well, you can look at it that two ways, you know, I mean just depends on how you want to look at it. No, but anyhow, we are Back today Warren was just making the comment and he and I agree with him and that it we're gonna talk about turkeys today But it doesn't feel like turkey season. I mean, I don't know about most of you in the country But up here in Iowa and farther north it is winter. We also have about a month For us. Yeah, we we tanned April April 12th. I believe it is. Yeah, whatever that month What's dead 14th and the 15th? So just under a month so they'll get warmed up, you know Season always open that late. Yeah, yeah, really Yep, but Next week we do have our first hunts starting. Yes, and those will be a little chilly Years well, I might not be years won't Easton's headed to Alabama to do some turkey hunt and I'll be headed to Nebraska Warren's gonna hold down the fort. So yeah Oh, I've had to do it to whatever I had to do it last year with you guys Is there anything specific on turkeys that we're talking about here? Yeah, what shot placement shot placement on turkeys with a bow in with a shotgun I'm pretty no, I think pretty much archery. All right, so I don't think we need to go over with a gun It's pretty self-explanatory. Well, that's not true. I just go bang to my office because this is uh, I'm Not much value in this pot. Yeah, no kid You're the best you're the best representative you should learn if we learn from our mistakes You should have learned more than anyone about shot placement. That's probably not All right. Well, that's what we're gonna talk about is shot placement on turkey So and we've got a little diagram here for those of you that can see this podcast it would probably help Um, but I think we can explain it pretty well, too Yeah, we'll try to put we'll try to break some of this down in videos and stuff too Because I think what's gonna make this podcast interesting Is and I'm gonna just start referring to it as your theory because it is nobody else talkly and I can't Um seem to execute it. So I don't want to be a hypocrite But your theory on where you should shoot turkeys and why you should shoot them there is Quite a bit different than what most people do and one I don't know that I feel like there's a lot of I've seen it work Like when you do what you're supposed to the way that you teach it it works Phenomenal, um, but I think the other thing that with that is I don't All the videos I've seen on turkey shot placement. I feel like it's kind of all over the board Like people are like telling you to shoot them in the wing, but some people are telling you You know you should hit them high. They die. They're telling you shoot them right behind the wing, but you know, they're not necessarily Definitely I don't think there's a unanimous agreement on where to shoot turkeys I think if you really want to break it down, there's pretty much three main ones You have well I guess and ours the third one might not even be all that of a main one because we're kind of on the opinion of not that common One would be shooting them in the head Uh number two would be shooting them higher. I guess if you And when I say higher referring, I'm referencing where we normally aim so above their drumsticks more so in their direct vital areas Um and number three would be what we're referring to as in the shiny spot shooting them in top of legs Through the through some of the vitals or the weight right? Yeah Um and so I'd say those are your three main ones assuming it's a broadside shot And I so I but outside of that there's tons and tons and tons like Some people don't shoot them when they're broadside They only shoot them facing them or facing straight away or all sorts of different things But I think those are probably our three main ones will go over Well, I think the interesting thing here would be to start is one Can can you show us where exactly the heart and lungs are? Yeah, I mean, I know I've got an idea but like I don't know But hang on. I think we back up a little bit because you guys just made too We need to try to do we need to be thinking that people are listening with this So we need to be trying to Make sure that you can describe that you can visually get a visual on it Well, here's the thing is I don't think there's an argument on straightaway Nobody argues about that that's a great shot and and when they're straight away and you're about a half inch Below where all the tail feathers come together which puts you going up right up their rear end That's guaranteed to go into and through the vitals of a turkey Now you could still lose that turkey Meaning because you're not taking out wings or taking out legs I have yet to see anyone that we've shot Through that and we but we've only had that opportunity a couple times is all But every one of them has died right there in place. They didn't go anywhere So I I think it's a good shot. Um have you ever seen anybody get a pass through from shooting them in the bungal? I have not but I'm not saying that you can't well because I wonder if they can't run either of that era's stuck in them Like fro at that angle i would run but I bet that would be excruciating No, it depends on how much is out of them because like when they put their tail down everything that era was out Even six seven inches. It's probably dragging on the ground. Yeah, I don't know I I don't know. I'm thinking of three or four times that I've that we have done it and all of them have been executed perfectly turkey was right there now if you shoot left or right You you're in for going just right down their side and you're not going to kill them It gives you a reference as far as penetration from the front the one I shot last year of dad was that I had because it was facing me at four yards or whatever shot him right above the beard And that went in I can't remember This much hanging out the back end or if that much was hanging out. Yeah, I think you were like almost you almost buried two fledgings Yeah, so you had by 25 inches of arrow in him, but it stopped him right there But did not go all the way through what brought it where you shooting that was one of dad's Three the three blade Opening. Yep, so and so I guess that's where I was going next was I think there's a total agreement on facing straight away with a bow and arrow Everyone there's only one place to shoot him and that's right up the rear end now if they're not strutting and walking away It gets tough. You got a you got a shot one like that. Haven't you? I know And I know the ido bird he shot straight away. I know I know we've killed a couple where we've taken that shot Yeah, that one was kind of quartered away. Yeah, that's a tough shot It's a very tough shot because basically you got to be above the tail And right and then you have to kind of visually find the vertebrae You know, they're back and you're trying to go right up the center of the turkey You know that way it is a very difficult shot of imagination because there's so many feathers I mean, you know general reference as to where it's all right You don't have like a great leg to follow up like a shoulder of a deer or something No, not at all And then let's flip the turkey around and then have him facing you and Depending on how much he's strutting you should you're somewhere between the um Between the waddles the the red part of the turkey for those that can't see or mean that we don't have The bot the bottom most colored part of their neck The little big balls that are on their neck Those are the walls so you want to be between those if they're in the beard strut if they're in full strut and between that and the beard You don't want to be any lower because if you shoot lower than the beard Then you end up Going through the bottom of the turkey and you probably don't kill him and you cut the beard off And you could cut the beard off. I mean so about half strut Uh half strut you you know kind of the same thing it it lowers a little bit You still need to be at that beard probably right on the beard. Yeah, the one I shot last year I mean i'm right on it. Yeah the one in Nebraska and he was dead in 20 seconds You know again, it's not my favorite shot because i'm not guaranteed and and so let's so with that being said Okay, but then the third one before we get into the broadside shot because that's going to take the most time So we agree on the front or we agree on the rear everyone's in total agreements I think there's a little bit of adversity as far as up and down on the front, but it's basically right here And so then three is the head And the problem that I see with the headshots is if they are not broadside We have actually seen broadheads bounce off of a turkey's head I know that sounds crazy and and yours is the best example that I can give you made a great shot on turkey Hit him right square in the top of his nog and right in the white part of his head right there for people that can But he was but he was facing helmet But he was facing you and we watched and we went back in slow motion and the arrow glances off of his head And we did not kill that turkey And But however, none of the ones that we've shot in the head were with The whopper choppers like correct guillotines which are designed for the head. Yes, and so then which This was I guess just us not knowing we didn't we didn't think that It'd be that hard to figure if you hit him in the head, they're just gonna die. That's we now know that's false information Um, unfortunately, I think we've verified that twice Yep, yours we found still but it wasn't it wasn't like he didn't just Right right there. We had freaking what do you go? 80 yards or 100 yards? 150, you know, because remember I didn't find him till later on that day, right? So if you're gonna shoot him in the head Everybody you'll hear everybody say, you know, that's the great thing about headshots If you're gonna shoot him in the head, they're either you're just gonna die right there or you miss Clean and we now know that that's not the case So if you're gonna shoot him in the head You either need to make sure you hit him in the waddles or you need to be using a a whopper Or come up Can you point Warren because it's too far from me and the blue and what right where the yeah right where the blue and red meet each other That's the medius part of the head if you can put an arrow right there He's dead and I think the issue you have there especially when you're doing that with an expandable Is that there's there's such a little surface area that it doesn't have the ability to really even open You know i'm saying so like you're basically shooting them almost with a field point now that you think about it Um because it can't open until it's hitting them So I think one I'd be so what is Do you think that there's more turkeys that get lost shot and lost or more deer that gets shot and lost and and to make this I don't know if there's quite as many turkey hunters as there is deer hunters So let's just make this even as far as let's just say that For every 100 turkeys that are shot with a bow how many are lost and for every hundred deer there shot with a bow how many are lost I don't know what that number is but I would say this and I could I say this all the time every seminar I do I consider a turkey a big game animal. That's just I classify them in with a deer and elk I mean because the way we hunt them and they're the number one per number of people hunting them because granted deer is going to be more because there's more deer hunters and there's more deer but per capita let's say There's more turkeys lost that are killed with a bow and arrow than any other big game animal in my opinion on in the north america I would agree with that and and what happens is guys are shooting them through the feathers And they're going through the body or they're going through if you hit them in the guts or something like that But you're penetrating the turkey and then they run or fly off and once they do the chances of finding them is I don't know One in 30 one and 40 if they fly if they if they fly I'd say you're One in 100. Yeah, it's hard to find them when they get their wings under them. Um, I'm you don't have blood Like deer correct me at least typically Um, you know, you don't they're not near as big as a deer and like their color probably doesn't help them either You know, they'll get into the thickest stuff they possibly can and you'll step on them walk around them I can give some examples that just blew my mind One of the first ones comes to me and you nebraska and you shot two jakes And then I shoot that tom and I don't get both legs I only cut one leg and but even when we only kill only when we only cut one leg We typically find the turkeys. They can't they still can't fly very well They can't get going and they don't land and I would use your example We've even had one where easten shot one's foot off Yeah, that's bad and we found that turkey. I mean it was just a bad shot I just didn't hit him where he was supposed to and It cut his foot just his foot. So right just envision for those of you They can't see right above the right above the Well, like his ankle, I guess but below the spur so then knuckle kind of yeah, but it cut it slam off We didn't know this at the time. We just knew that he shot low But the turkey I could see was struggling to go and we end up finding him again and shooting him And for everybody listening that'll make more sense on why we're talking about that here in a little bit Yep, did you guys find the foot to that turkey? No, we did look we went back and look we didn't look for it at first We didn't know that's what happened. I don't know how we didn't find it because you think it would have been right there And was it a clean cut? Yeah, it seemed like it Well, we looked at it like I was like no way that actually just went through that and cut that completely like clean And when you look at his leg, it's like sliced it up It looks like a just a freaking hot knife went right through it and Perfect So but that one comes to mind And then the other one though going back to you and I in Nebraska and I shoot that bird and I take out one leg I mean it I'm up up in the thigh part of it, which is Real close to what I wanted to do We're looking for that turkey and I just remember the one time like we had already jumped him once and I don't know if you remember that but he was laying in grass that couldn't have been more than eight or ten inches tall and me and you walked within Feet of him not yards feet like 10 12 feet And all of a sudden he gets up and we didn't see him And I was like you got to be kidding me. How in the world did that bird hide in this little bit of grass? And so that's why they're so difficult to find the other one is Mom shoots a turkey in Idaho that time And it and it pitched off the mountain and landed in the top of a tree And just so happened I could see him And so mom went to get you guys because you guys were hunting another area to come back And i'm watching this bird now for three or four hours In the top of a tree and I can see him wobbling like oh, whoa, whoa I'm losing because she hit him pretty well But not good enough to kill him and I don't know how in the world I ended up seeing him sitting in that tree But I could see his head watched him for three or four hours I don't know if you guys remember I think we left you on the hill So that you would be able to see wherever he went and then the three of us went down to kind of circle the tree and get on the ridge So mom could shoot him again And as soon as we spooked him As soon as he saw us coming he tried to come out of the tree and he just fell like a helicopter Just boom right to the ground. Where did she hit that one? She hit him right a little bit back She was behind both legs broadside. He was broadside. Okay And uh, but my point with that is If that bird had died on the limb You're never finding that turkey or if you hadn't seen it What are the other side right? Unless you got locked lucky and walked underneath him and he tried doing the same thing and then you to pray heard him Honestly, I imagine walking looking on the ground for a turkey and all senate falls on your head Well, we So I know we've said that before though where we've had situations where we've hit turkeys we call them turkey rodeos. Oh, yeah, and uh, that we were actually I mean for Ethically, we want to kill the turkey quick and fast But we also want to be able to find them so we can eat them and utilize what we've harvested and um I know that we've been kind of somewhat hoping they were alive Because we needed them to flap their wings or something you need to get close enough to spook them to try and find them Because if you're just looking for a dead turkey and you don't know Have really a very good idea where they went. It's freaking hard Really hard really tough. Um And a dog you can't do like what you would do with a dog because they typically if especially if they flew Dog has nothing to go on until that bird lands again and you have no idea where they landed So if you're hunting Hilly area it's even worse because then they can pitch and just coast You know, that's the issue that's shooting them almost anywhere because if the whole premise behind shooting where we shoot them is taking their legs out Absolutely And if they're If you're shooting them on the edge of a hill or something as long as they can take two steps And get there somewhat get off the pitch off the thing Then they don't need their legs so you run into the issue both ways But if you're like around here They got there's hardly anywhere for them to pitch off of something and let's say actually go we don't hunt Like like I know like that stuff where they could pretty much jump and they'll Catch they'll catch land and they can fly wherever they might they might be able to trip and stick their wings out And frickin coast So what ended up happening is what led us to where we're going here and that is Many years ago. I don't know exactly what year it was, but I had shot some turqui I had now killed a turkey or two with my bow And one day i'm turkey hunting again bird comes in And instead of and where I would shoot them back then is I was trying to hit them right in the wing But or just behind the wing but to go through the To go through the heart and lungs of the turkey i'm looking at the You know which are So you're saying the heart and lungs sit right behind the wing but or Correct like back here No, right right because you don't want to hit that wing but if you hit that wing, but I don't care what you're shooting We've seen that as well with a bow and arrow It'll bounce off it. It'll you might stick in there, but you're you're only an inch of penetration It is it is as hard as any bone in a um, I wonder if you can do it with a Wapper chopper No, let's play less likely to get through anything on that Fix blade. I wonder if you get through it and we're calling this a wapper choppers That even their correct name for what this is or I think there's several The guillotine is the only one that I know Warren just calls him a wapper chopper for fun. Okay So that knows what it means though, right? So that everyone understands just just to clarify that that when we say wapper chopper We're talking about something that is designed for a headshot and usually they're like four inches of uh cutting diameter across so that you're excessive like yeah 10 yards the I went to a wapper chopper's last night So and the the poor lady the lady at shield's checking me out She's like what is she asked questions like oh no, she's like wow these are big. What is this for? And I was like you really want to know she's like yeah, this goes on an arrow and I was like well The intention is to cut a turkey's head off and she's like oh my god Sometimes better not to ask yeah Well, anyhow, I don't think a fix blade's going through that wing buddy there I actually I feel like it might because I think I hit I hit that Signific shake that time in Nebraska in the wing, but I think and I was like there is no thing. Well I'm pretty sure it was right in the wing, but it's it's just a tough tough spot. Yeah, I'm not saying it's not really like a Really dense piece of right? I guess it's on a bird. It's not even bone. It's well For those people out there that have not shot turkeys with their bows or have limited A time of hunting them do not underestimate the toughness of a turkey. Oh, yeah, I mean They are times it by 10 compared to a deer they are pound unbelievably built to Take it take it, you know and the wings are designed and everything to just kind of collapse and so they absorb a ton of energy So but anyhow, so anyhow, I'm hunting Montana one time And like I said, I'd killed a couple turkeys now And I kind of figured out where to shoot them and that was you know, I'm hitting them right behind the wing the wing itself or the wing butt and trying to hit them right in the Heart and lungs. Well, I shot low on this turkey And when you shoot low, you can come down worn on point out where the shiny spot That shiny spot is that big copper band that borns pointing out right there And what we're talking about is on a on any turkey eastern Miriam. It doesn't matter a rio They all have that Copper colored band on their wing And when they're at full strut that copper colored band the front corner of it the front Third of it. Let's just say maybe it's even a little less than that. Maybe it's a quarter the front quarter The front quarter is directly in line if they're brought if they're perfectly broadside with their drumsticks With their legs the meaty part of their legs And that's where my arrow went through and my and it didn't go all the way through It like went through and the fletching was sticking out about seven or eight inches on one side The arrow was sticking out on the other side and this turkey turkey flipped over and flopped and did all kind But and so I'm like well, I think I got him But at that time I'm running out there just like you shoot him with a shotgun you take off and you run out there You don't want him to get away And I run out there and I grab this turkey by the head and I ring his neck and Got my turkey It wasn't until I went back and looked at the video that I was like man that like Did some damage there, you know and I thought about it and I was like This doesn't make sense that why would this shock is it was low? Now it still went through the inner part of his carcass. So I still went into some vitals But the blood was what really like holy cow There was just a gob of blood at the bottom like that if I hadn't ran out there the turkey Probably would have been dead in a minute, you know, but I was out there in 10 seconds if that long And so what ended up happening as I started aiming at that spot I decided i'm going to try this and see if this Works and I had lost a turkey or two already Just like we were talking about where I shot one and I'm like man. I should have killed this turkey I don't know why What broad head were you shooting at that time? I was just shooting a regular Mechanical broad head like a rage or something like that I didn't have I hadn't figured out like where now i'm specific on what i'm shooting And did you hit that did you hit that one in the top of the drumstick or the center of it? Okay, you know and and I mean he didn't go anywhere Um, and so then I started I started doing that on purpose I was like, okay, I'm going to shoot him there and even though that was well off of where a 3d target would tell you to shoot them and 22 turkeys later I have yet to lose one now Fortunately, I had made all my shots were good too. I had hit where I wanted to I wasn't missing But there was a couple where I like one leg was forward or backwards and I didn't know that and I didn't get it Like through both legs perfectly and I was still finding them and and that would be one like me and you were talking I mean The turkey rodeo suck don't get me wrong they suck because I don't like to wound anything I don't like to see any animal suffer But at the same time when I see that leg broken I know we are like highly highly good chance. We're finding that turkey or at least you go shoot him again You'd be able to shoot him again, you know, um and so but the whole goal was it still is To keep them there on the scene even if I have to wring their neck at least they're there I don't lose that turkey Um, and so once I started doing that we came up with the kind of coin the frame I or the phrase I guess of shoot him in the shiny spot And so that's what I started doing and and to still do this day last year Um I don't I mean in Nebraska the first one was straight on I had to shoot him Or I'm sorry the first one that I shot was on the decoy and he was right where I needed to No video Eli didn't hit the record, but So we couldn't show that one, you know, but he made it he limped away about 30 or 40 yards And there he was and then the second one I shot same thing he came in and that one though I still don't understand because he actually walked off a little ways But if you remember, that's the one that just kind of clumps over Yeah And I mean I'm I should have shot him again and I did not Thinking he's dead. So that would be my other tip to people If you can get another shot at the turkey take it. Oh turkey's double tap put put all Do not give them a chance. Yeah, don't don't like think I don't want to mess up any more meat or whatever I Put another arrow in them because the more arrows the better And the more arrows that stay in them Even better because then it keeps them from their equilibrium's off. They're not a very big animal You only have 20 some pounds. So walk us through real quick why you believed that hitting them in the You switched to this technique and hitting them in the top of the drumsticks and not necessarily not necessarily possibly shooting for the vitals Was more efficient than just putting an arrow through the vitals Okay, well and because what happened was I also hunted with some other buddies And I watched one that I felt like he was like crushing these turkeys. He's And I'll use his first name gym and Jim shoots. I mean he's hitting them where he's supposed to yet They're taking off on us and we're in Montana And so when you talk about hills and stuff we top a hill and there's no turkey there And sometimes we even had snow on the ground and and blood And we're I mean and we got a video camera we can go back and look at the shot And arrow went clean like perfectly through where you were talking about, you know That should be textbook on a 3d target yet. We don't have a turkey And then we get to the top of the hill and there's and we now figure out he had to have flown from here Because there's no more blood. There's no more tracks. It just disappears We got really lucky on one of them and he like you were talking about he starts flapping He was dying and so the last thing they do, you know kind of go into that like crazy flat And this bird is four or five hundred yards away from us uphill and he's flapping around and we found him I don't know if he had done that now we would have probably been looking but it was in the afternoon It was in it was maybe 30 minutes before dark I don't know if we would have found him that afternoon had to come back the next day and continue to look and we might have lost some dikaios You know, um, but anyhow, so I'm watching people shoot them including myself and my buddies and we're shooting them where we're supposed to but yet We still are not keeping the birds there and we might lose them And the one like I said the one that I shot where I go through both drumsticks He was there 22 turkeys later. Every one of them was on the scene I I never lost sight of him. So basically you're saying that they were hitting them where they needed to and then and If it just like a deer hit them in both lungs and let's just say they only made it for a minute and a half They were able to get four or five hundred yards or Travel a significant amount of distance and then without blood and stuff like at least the amounts that you've had with deer It was very difficult to recover them. Absolutely. They were killing them, but they were having a hard time recovering them And you discovered a way that basically I could recover them and recover them and they can't go anywhere What was I thought you had a streak of like 30? Well, I'm just saying 22 freaking good Oh, I'm not saying 22 in a row before I had to chase one before I messed up and I had to go find him Okay, you know and and then I got like cocky and decided I would try to let's see about head shooting some of them and once I did that I missed a couple and but um So now I've gone back to shooting them in the wings I mean shooting them in the drumsticks in the wing and then just make that shot perfect But like I said, I won't I will not shy away from a straightaway shot It seems like the straightaway shot is tough because they never want to get that way because the way we set our decoys That were they're always either facing us or quarter to us or broadside Um, and then the biggest toughest thing about shooting them with a bow is someone understanding when to draw I mean we just had a buddy two years ago that I his first bird I'm getting ready to go hunt with another guy that's never shot one with a bow and so I I look forward to that because it'll be fun to help them But I understand how much help they need because a lot of times those birds come in and we're not shooting them very far either 10 yards is like a long shot Um, I actually have moved my decoys out a little bit We used to talk about having them at five or six yards and we've pushed them back to like eight or nine Um only because I felt like we were getting so close. It was hard to breathe You know, yeah So we backed them up a little bit and so now and that's the thing that you need to understand wherever you put those decoys That's probably where your shot's going to be right there Um, and so don't if you put them at 20 yards, you're making yourself shoot 20 yards and 20 yards on a You know, my hand is even bigger than their heart probably more of my fist. You know, I'm probably half that You know And and and I would say the shiny spot that I'm talking about is probably somewhere the same size as the vitals Did you think about the drumstick of the turkey and it's oblong but it also kind of goes I don't know. I know people can't see it, but it goes Back and then forward again, you know, and if you go through any part of that and cut that and break that I mean the other thing is when you just like shooting a deer, we don't teach No one's going to teach to shoot deer in the Ham, but if you hit them in that femoral artery, they bleed like crazy. Well turkeys have the exact same thing You know, and so there's a ton of blood that comes out of there I think going off last my last year's experience If I can get a like a From facing I'm taking that every day of the week because he dropped right there in his tracks And died within like a seconds, right? And he couldn't go anywhere granted. I don't know how much room there is for error with that shot Because I've put it right where I needed to be it's kind of hard to miss at four yards, but Uh, well, I guess I say that and then warren over here Um But then my opinion that was the only one I would love to Test that I guess keep shooting them right in that way And see if it's that foolproof because it was like Perfect. Yeah, like I was 100 Especially where that situation was that he could have just ran 10 yards backwards and pitched off the hill And gotten somewhere and I was 100 expecting no matter what i'm going to shoot this bird and he's going to be able to get somewhere and Drop right there I would do it again. What I think back on is I'm not picking on you Warren, but I remember when we were in Montana. It's okay. There's a lot of subject material for me And the bird that came in that you shot him and and you're He's vocalizing. I'm listening to I got headphones on, you know, and which one the very the first one in sindy We went over to sindy and this bird comes in, you know and and horns like oh my god Right in the shiny spot right in the shot, you know, he's talking out loud. I'm like The kids on it right and the bird do great in school either Well, the problem was you weren't letting the bird get broadside I actually hit this one in the shiny spot every time the very no the very first one No, no member the first one that I hit in the shiny spot and I had two tags Right the second one was such the You kept the asco right yeah, that's because the first one if we go back and look at the video I hit that one pretty much where I was supposed to but I don't got one leg. Yep. And we found him Yes, but then the second one go ahead of the story So so then the bird comes in and he's like right in the shiny spot right but he's saying this in in a Right, this is what I could tell he's extremely excited and the bird comes in and he's facing him And then slightly quarters and as soon as you could see that copper band Pooh and it was through the shiny spot in his tail You know and it went out and hit the ground and the bird didn't know what was going on So he climbed up on the decoy and he sticks his head through the the Tail feathers and he's pecking on this and Warren knocks another arrow and he's like right in the shiny spot Right and then finally gets another and zips it So even though your shoot the thing I love about the shiny spot is it gives you a reference of where to shoot And that's it gives people an aiming point when they're broadside When they're broad side, yeah, but they got to be broadside to shoot Yes spot I ran out of arrows. Yeah, he had arrows sticking in the ground everywhere There's a video of that bird stepping over the arrow to get back to the decoy And and then he's asked me now what do I do? I'm like You're out of arrows, you know, what do you want to do? So it was it was fun though, you know, but um but my point in that is That's the other thing that the shiny spot is clear if and hopefully anyone who's listening today You where do we have our do we have any place for anyone to see the Vital zone turkey that we made that can point out I don't know, you know, or it I mean I'll talk about it in my seminars and well, we should probably build a video Um, that's what we were snicking our time out yesterday. Well, I think let's dive into Maybe and maybe I'm the person to answer this because I'm the one that seems to have the issue with it Why do you think that shooting turkeys is so difficult for people? I think I just said that A minute ago and that is it's not a white-tailed deer has a clear leg to follow And elk has a clear leg to follow and antelope has clear leg to follow Bears get a little touchy because they get big and black and boars I think could do the same thing if they're really big But you still can see the leg and follow up and you're right behind it or you know and so it's it's a clear They're all similar Turkey doesn't have that and so I think what people find is all of a sudden this bird comes in and then when they blow up You know and they're strutting and they're all blowed up loud up like a friend of ours nick named it was awesome And they get all blowed up that you don't realize that you know, sometimes there's eight or ten inches of nothing but feather on their back It looks like yeah like the amount of actual bird on on this whole thing is like basically Like that right there. Yeah is about it up to his neck Yeah, there's not much nowhere near as much bird as you would think is there and so I so it becomes very difficult to pick a spot And I think that's my problem is like what I wonder I wonder if this whole theory I mean, yes, I understand somewhat the vitals are kind of there, but I think this is I think this might have come from deer hunters looking at this as like uh Right behind the shoulder type deal and just Overlapping it to turkeys because easton said that he called it last year and he was correct That second bird that I shot last year here in Iowa The one that I'm trying to remember we found him a little bit later. Oh, yeah, he had came in perfect. Um I shot he turned and quartered to a little bit and I definitely put it more forward Than what I was what I should have and easton was like you shot that turkey as if it was a deer which is exactly what I did where And that's really hard to explain to visualize for people but I can subconsciously shoot a deer without having I don't have to think If that deer takes a step and quarters away more, I don't have to think oh you need to aim further back now I just do it. I just know where to what to aim turkeys. I don't have that Capability and the other thing the other problem for me with turkeys is they fire me the frick up Like I get messed up. They're the one they're like an elk. Yeah turkeys and elk that that's the I think that's why I have such a hard time Because turkey everything else I'm I'm pretty good turkeys As we all know that's why everyone's making fun of me. I have a hard time hitting turkeys. Well, and I think is what it is Is where like elk elk and turkeys both do that to me deer. Don't get me near as riled up turkeys and elk mess me up. I think elk though are I know I'm so limited like one shot. It's like worn. You can't screw this up. So you got to calm down focus So that you don't you make this Happen and where turkeys it's kind of like they'll probably be another shot in a little bit And I don't and then I'm just then they just get my heart going and I just lose everything So I think that for what I'm gonna do I think this year is I'm going to my solution to try to solve this is gonna go one of two ways One I'm gonna try whopper choppers first because I do think the one that I did shooting the head I think just have not having to think about all that and just simply putting my pen on the head is going to help me a lot Now my concern is that I'm hearing all of these Horror stories about getting these things to fly straight I'm hoping that I can screw them on and and shoot them at 10 yards and be fine Because I'm confident we can get turkeys to 10 yards, but what I'm hearing is you got to crank your bow out You got to have a super stiff spine and all this other stuff, which I really don't want to mess with my bow That's shooting great for turkeys And then my arrows, you know if you have your arrows set up properly They're not over the shelf so I had to get longer arrows to be able to even fit whopper choppers on there So i'm praying that i'm gonna get really lucky and be able to just well, I'll say I'll say this in your defense I think Percope per times we've called in turkeys. You have more pristine perfect shots than anyone. I know us I mean like I remember the one day Hunting right by the house. We went over and the jakes came in first and then here he comes and i'm like, okay And at this point you're already having a difficult time you shot some turkeys and not killed him and i'm like, okay, Warren Take your time. I've never not had a difficult time. Right? I mean as far as getting a perfect shot You don't have them hang up at 17 18 yards or 20 yards. They come right in they stand there and Yeah, it's gotta be a mental thing It's because you like the one that the best part wasn't even the hunt He called one in well me and him both called it because we were both calling and called this bird in right under that windmill By dad's house. Yeah, and comes in freaking perfect and like eight yards And i'm filming like this is a chip shot. Wait, when was this one? Like five six years ago. This was your eighth miss in a row because I was scared for my life when you missed Because I didn't do anything, but I thought you're gonna kill me and launched over the cliff Oh, that's the one you launched over the cliff. That was a hard shot. It was 10 yards. No, that was the three that were like walking in Uh-uh. I think you're thinking the wrong one Either way, I didn't get right on in and he launches like not even close like I'm watching Waiting to see an air and almost miss the arrow because I hear it go off And I don't see it go even generally close to the body And dad goes, well, did you guys find your arrow and more goes? No, I freaking launched it off a cliff dad I'm not gonna go look for an arrow and he did you launched probably like 500 yards because there was over a cliff That one was actually a hard shot. I disagree They're under 20 yards, but that was after I'd already missed like the four or five that came in and everything else Like that was a really rough year. So like when i'm saying I have a lot of miss. I have a lot of misses Miriams for a while there. I was doing okay. I don't know why what the difference was with Miriams I thought you crossed the Nebraska line and you're good over there. He was I was that's what told you so we were Yeah, okay, but that's a totally different bow. Have you tried it without that Miriams like if you killed one since you tried it with your recurve Um, I have Miriam Not a Miriam. No, but I think Easterns the one I shot that one bird three times Which one I end up killing with my shotgun the very first one I killed in Iowa I hit him one time hit him another time me and you call him in right next to the house Yeah, hold on make make sure that someone understands not this is not all at once This bird kept coming in different times and we didn't know until you killed him because when we big Had all the holes in his breath Yeah, I shot him twice. Is that the one that we shot in the rain? Yes, okay I had shot him two other times and killed him with a shotgun because that's usually what would happen is I would I would go and and Usually I think I had to take I had to miss two before I go buy the shotgun tag And then I go killing out of frustration every year For several years in a row. So my alternate that I'm going to do this year if I can't get the wapper choppers to fly Because I'll be really curious. I think it's the wapper choppers work. I think I'll be good I think it'll be interesting to see how I do but other than that if that doesn't work I think I'm going to make myself shoot either a back tension or hinge And I think that I'll be curious. I think that um Because it make you focus on the correct spot. It's going to make me slow down I because for Turkey's is the one where I have that problem. I think that it will make me not be able to freak out and and just You know and shoot really fast and it's going to make me take my time and and pick where I need to aim So that's that's my alternate option to see this year and I can report back to everybody wants the seasons over Yeah, oh we're going to extremes to see if we can kill a bird. It will be interesting because uh It's a problem dude. That's a problem for me like I'm Honestly, I have a hard time the whole Because it was for a while and I don't even count the reaker because that was a whole nother story It's a whole nother type of bow to try to try to learn But I don't understand the whole I it's like Iowa because you get out of Iowa you're fine Kill birds left and right but you get back in Iowa and it's like Take bets on the lard the amount of streaks that he's going to go on a missing But then put him out of Iowa and he'll kill every bird they come in. I don't know I had some Montana too that were rough Okay, the best shot I ever had was the one that we all killed as a family Looking back that was an unbelievable shot Where are you? Shot that Jake in Montana in the northwest part of Montana Mom made the joke about packing the sink and everything else in your pack Yes, and I you guys you guys were sitting behind that like That wheel looking deal. Yeah. Oh, yeah That's really blind out in front of us Yeah, and that bird came came into something. I think he caught me drawing It was walking away at 20 and I managed to get right below the back of his neck And dropped him like a rock. Yeah, that was probably the best turkey shot I've ever had Yeah, I don't I was luck. Yes. That's one of the two Well, I think it's a huge topic to actually talk about because I think that it's a growing thing There's lots of more and more people are trying to shoot turkeys with their bows Um, and I think you just need to understand I mean Because if we want to talk about shooting turkeys with shotgun, okay put it on their neck and pull the trigger I mean the target itself that they provide for you To practice on You know, but that's something that you got to do is that is shoot that shotgun and make sure that it's pattern correctly So that you know how many pellets you're going to put in because I would have never guessed that I have a H&R 20 gauge single shot and then I have an 870 Remington wingmaster and then I had for a long time I had them Uh Oh, what the heck was it one of the camouflage baked ones? um I can't think of what it was a camouflage baked. Yeah, it's like baked not every when they first came out with turkey got specific It was a shorter shotgun Um, mossberg And I had a mossberg. I never killed a turkey with that mossberg. I missed more turkeys with that thing And yet my 870 slam dunk But I can put my 870 up against that 20 gauge and that 20 gauge will outshoot it when it comes to and but it's the right loads in it You know, I would definitely make sure you pattern it because I did not pattern joey's very well And that poor kid was he hammered it and it died right there, but he was eating lead for a while He had like joey's was at 10 yards. Yeah, he pummeled the body Was the pad hit it low like or he he hit it like in the bottom part of its neck But there was like he the entire the entire bird was was covered I think the issue with that one was because it was his shotgun which he has an 870 as well But he didn't have any of the other chokes for it Yeah, so i'm pretty sure I don't remember exactly but I think it was the widest possible choke that he had I would say so That's all he had all he had yeah, and says like all right. We'll make it work and I Was covering that much of like because I killed the kids about it but like with east and at like Looking back. I thought it was like 40 now it was pretty dude. That was a 50 or 60 yard shot with that same 20 that 20 gauge Yeah, oh no you put number five shot three inch magnums in that 20 gauge and it will put It seems like it puts 50 pellets in there at 30 yards Oh, I was sitting there behind you like holy cow Because I was like, is he really gonna shoot this thing right now because there ain't no way that trucking for each in that And I don't think you thought so either because he couldn't come in closer and I know I'd boom and drop the fells like It didn't there was a ditch in front of me. Yeah, so it didn't look that I didn't think it was that far until I stood up and then I was like, oh wow That was a lot from the far away where my angle I could tell it was a long I'm like no way shooting that far and even if he does it's gonna like bounce off of the turkey He's gonna run away my best shot with a shotgun was calling for another guy that I didn't know him I met him through a hunt club. I'm 19 maybe 20 and I gotten heavily into turkey hunting in Virginia And this guy said he wanted to go and Then his turkey calls didn't even sound like a turkey and so I was like, well, maybe I should do the calling You know and we walk around all morning and we get to this spot and and in Virginia noon was the end of turkey I mean of the day and it was like 1140 and we're walking back along a power line And I yelp a couple times in turkeys answer. I'm like heck Yeah, man, they're coming And so we set up and we get all set up and so I'm calling for him So he's sitting like 10 yards in front of me and we have no decoys or anything like that I'm just sitting against the tree and here comes this bird and there's three of them There's two jakes and a big tom the big tom comes first And so he's sitting in front of me turkeys are coming from left to right And I watch them walk right past him and he never shoots and then I realized he still got his guns sitting on his lap And i'm like, what the heck well they keep coming and they come past him and as they come past him i'm thinking I'm gonna try to shoot a turkey here. The problem is i'm right handed and they're going to my right And they're now even with me and so the third one is back as you know, like, okay And I remember I shoulder my gun left-handed and i'm gonna try to do this and I can't do anything left-handed And i'm pretty sure to this day. I got my right eye down on the gun And i was gonna say at least close this right. No, no, I can't do that. I cannot close my right eye It doesn't work. I gotta put my hand over I can close one I close my left, but I can't close my right So I get one was right. I can't close my right eye and keep my left eye open try What the frick can't do it Mental students How does that work? That's how people literally cannot I can do this. Yeah, I can do one I can do my left eye. That makes no sense, but I cannot do my right eye So anyhow as this bird's walking away. He's at like 45 yards now and i'm like With the wrong eye boom and boom. I killed a jake. I was like super pumped and I was i'm apologizing to him He's like oh, that was all good. I couldn't shoot him and i'm like so that that was my best shotgun shot ever None of them will top elissa's no elissa's was impressive the one-handed 12 gauge She shot a turkey with a 12 gauge yet with one hand with one arm Like she was like gangster shooting turkeys Because she reefed this bird, you know and so I told her I said okay because the she was like I was like, okay. Just crawl out there. We couldn't get him to come right? I was like just crawl out there with the deco. I put the reaper right behind the blind and just go you know kind of don't go right at him but go at him and he should come and She's like feeling the ground. She's like, what do I do? I can't I'm not gonna be able to get this into the ground And I said that's fine. Just let him get close and then Um just drop it and shoot him like you'll have a second or so and just shoot him And um, she's like no, I don't want to do that and um and like he's like going away I'm like just just get out of the blind and start going at that turkey and then and so she's like, oh, you know I was like just go And um so she starts going and he comes like 30 yards and then he starts He like puts his head up and putts once and so and she's like 50 yards for me So he's about to go and I tell her I'm like shoot him And she doesn't do anything. I'm like shoot him And so she won't like you wild birds Yes You hear me on the video yell at him at her twice to shoot him and so then she won't drop the decoy She pulls the 12 gauge up with one arm And frickin shoots him and drops him because she at least shoulder it Yeah, she shouldered it. I'm telling you it was one arm 12 gauge It knocked her on her butt But while i'm sitting there trying to think like if she just picked that thing up and literally held it out and shot it I'm like that thing probably blew right back in her Imagine trying to shoot a 12 gauge like this though. Just one arm. Yeah, it was it was not it was impressive So that's yeah, that's so anyhow when it comes to a shotgun. It's pretty Simple, you know, you want to shoot him right in that neck and head and I think the only other thing Which you make clear real quick is Broadhead choice for people shooting 60 to 70 pounds and broadhead choice for people shooting Um 60 or less or maybe even 55 or less Yeah, I was gonna say because mom has shot several turkeys with expandable broadheads at like 55 pounds Yeah, but there's a difference in our expandable Yes And what what I try to tell people is you don't want to shoot the best broadhead on the market The one that everyone is shooting at deer Because you're gonna get them to just especially if you're the guy shooting 70 pounds if you're shooting 60 To 70 pounds you are probably going to blow through a turkey pretty quickly You don't want to do that you want that arrow to stay in there You're wanting eight inches of penetration eight to 10 inches of penetration in that arrow to be stuck in there So we started shooting um and hammerheads are the ones that stick out to me. There's several different companies nap makes one In the spitfire, I think it's called. I think that's what it is But um sick still makes the hammerhead that used to be rocket and what they are is instead of envisioning like a meat seeker that seek makes or A sick makes or a rage broadhead that is a slip cam it slides back We're looking for something that flips back that that the front end goes back And what that does is takes away some of the inertia or it hangs up in those turkeys because there's all of that Material and everything in there. So picking the picking the right broadhead is a super And i'm looking for something. I'd like to have two two and a half inch cut The more cutting diameter the better I could get I think if they're getting under like 55 pounds too You should be shooting a fixed blade then you got to go to a fixed blade. Yep. Yep because I've learned that experience the hard way Yeah, and I we've had that with a whistle and mom as well. Yep, probably Um I oh man. I thought I was hoping that they did make it because it's gonna tell I know we'll get a lot of Questions on the broadhead. I don't see sick on here or to see the that one the hammerhead I don't know. Do you make it's not making it anymore? I don't think that thing hasn't been made for years Well, I what I did was bought him a whole bunch of them off of ebay Like a 50 pound a 50 pack bag. They didn't even come in a pack. It just came in a bag And just held on to him. Yeah, and I still have some that was like 10 years. Oh, yeah Well, when you buy I think I bought two bags for me and I bought a bag for mom that were a little smaller Those yeah, you did they didn't have two sizes. Yeah, one size was a little smaller Yeah, but so moral the story reverse. Oh, reverse opening broadheads Helps with a lot helps a ton Um, sir, but other than that, you know, and if people have questions on the shiny spot, maybe we can post a picture Um, you know or if you're gonna be they won't hear this before spring thunder But I'll go over shooting them in the shiny spot at spring thunder Um, and then look for videos. We'll we'll continue to put stuff out on youtube and stuff like that because Even though it's different, um, I know of a few guys that questioned me on it You know, we're like, I just don't know but i'm gonna try it this year And they've recovered their turkeys, you know, and so it's it works really really well I can't see if trophy ridge Possibly still makes it. I saw there was still actually a few left on ebay. It looked like Yeah, you can you can really I mean if you just look up It'll just be sure that it's not If they have it listed right a rear expanding like we said flips back not slides back like a slip cam Right, so if you just look up, I've even talked to guys that have found cheap ones on amazon and just You're looking for something that's cheap I mean, it's gonna fly right but look for a larger Opening so like two two and a half inch cuts rear expanding and then whatever green Well, um, you're shooting with your typical field point the thing I would add though for the hammerhead and again That's not a sponsor. I'm just telling you what I was shooting but they spun unbelievably, you know So they do remember those actually spinning when you'd spin them in your hand and what i'm talking about is tuning a broadhead to a To your arrow and they I do a little spin test in my hand and gosh dang they would spin well Yeah, you know so and so on where Warren if he shoots these Wapper choppers, he's 10 yards and under maybe 20 yards. I've heard of a few people that Um should could you know get them to fly? Well enough to shoot 20 yards, but if you had to make a follow-up shot or something like that You could do it with the broadheads. We're talking about You know where you could shoot 30 40 50 yards It just like warms gonna have a mixed arsenal on his thing. Oh, he's already planned on that probably three wapper choppers two Two regular broadheads. I mean Trophy rages gonna have to make a bigger quiver for me They do I think they'll make a bigger one. I need like four arrows per bird. Oh my lord. Well, cool. Hopefully not Hopefully i'm gonna have a really good need this year All right. Well, have we covered? Do we I know this was a question a couple people had written in asking us to cover this so We hope this works out. I'm sorry that we got off on a few tangents in our Storytelling but there seem like their story's worth telling. I mean some of them are to the point, you know, so Um, but anyhow questions comments Please continue to send them in we love the reviews We love the sharing of the podcast the podcast continues to grow and so we can't thank you guys enough and appreciate you tuning in and Um, I know it's been two weeks now. We've already said thank you once but go into The the I would hear classic and two other public events and having people walk up and say I love listen to you guys argue You know today wasn't that big of an argument Warren kind of just addressed his Wows and said i'll take it like a man So good job. He took away Warren's or he took away eastern's ammunition. So Um, but we appreciate you guys and thank you for watching and listening and We'll continue to try to provide what we can so that's the raised hunting podcast signing off Yes. Okay.