The Difference In Deer Hunting: Midwest vs East Coast

All right, guys. Well, welcome back to the raised hunting podcast. We got a couple of shout outs we need to do. We got a Trevor Wins and What was the first name of Sheffield? Ryan Ryan Ryan Sheffield. Thank you guys for apparently you guys did a good job of commenting. However, you forgot to fill in the stars. They might have. I'm not 100% sure So we're not going to get on to you too hard yet, but we might, you know, so all right, but no, anyhow, we want to just say thank you to everyone who is doing all the Reviews and and people who have been sharing this with other people because the podcast continues to grow and it kind of surprises me. Although it doesn't surprise me that Warren's head has grown even more because someone made the comment that his Going off topic was like their favorite part. You do realize if you the reason you just said that just puts it back in his head that you're going to keep doing that's what you were adding that segment. No, we're not adding a segment to Warren's head. It has nothing to do with my head. If the people have spoken and they enjoy Spoken they enjoy we have to provide for them what they want. Okay. All right. Well, this is about us. This is about them. Okay. Well today It's a democracy in unlike North Korea. My two special guests that are here every week, which is my two boys that ride the short bus. David You produced us. So what's that say about you? I don't fall far from the tree there. Well, I'm going to talk to your problem because I'm quite certain that this ain't all me, but We do have a special guest here today. Eddie Diaz has come all the way from the East Coast from Jersey to visit us and so and I and he's got a shirt on that kind of tell tales what's going on in his life. I which I think is pretty cool dumbbells deadlifts and diapers because he is about to become a dad. Pretty excited about that. Yeah, you should be. Yes, sir. Well, welcome to Iowa. Welcome to the raised hunting podcast. Glad to have you here. Thank you very much. Glad to be here. Eddie is big hunter and he's an instructor for raised a full draw and he's that that's why he's been out here this week. We had really good yet really good camp 57 kids. We had overload. So good time though, but then we might get out and do a little fish in here later. Yeah, all right. Well, that's what are we going to talk about today as far specifically Warren said it's East Coast versus Midwest. Oh, yeah, great. Your gangster symbols. You think you're going to go to M. It's an M. Yeah, for what not this? It was. Wait, why don't you just do this? Then you could do both. You just do it like that. Is that backwards for you guys? There midwest just simple isn't an actual one. The East Coast one is easy. I don't know. That's how we roll right there. So that's, you know, that for everything that goes right in line with my tip or with my my off topic tip for today. You're not even a tip, but you did an interesting fact. You named it wacky wacky tips. Warren's Warren's wacky tips. Yes. Do you think that you're creative? Of course, I am. I would beg to differ. Do you know where New Jersey got its name? No, from England. Okay. So you guys went from New England and you just went New Jersey. Yeah, I got it. I'm going to have to double check that for hold on here. But you also know that you also know that I'm also wanted to raise New York. So I'm a New Yorker. Let me show this with it. I will get it. Why do you guys all do new over there? Yeah, where do I will get it? New York, New Jersey, New England. Dude, we're actually probably one of the oldest cities ever. Was it because it was new? Well, yeah. At that time. Yeah. Now maybe needs to be old Jersey and old York. That I want to have to look up. That I want to have to look up. Well, I think that was a little before my time. So I can't be responsible for naming of something going off of your fact from last week. That was not even close because it was really relative. No, because it wasn't even that great of a fact. Like, oh, oh, man, I didn't want to ever imagine that England would have named some of the states on the eastern part of the country. Okay. Well, maybe you should do Warren's wacky tips next time. Facts. You can't even get your own segment. Right. No, it's tips. Go back and listen. All right. Let's move on because that was not beneficial. That was not the most of that room. That's what I was talking about. Half of this sucker is never beneficial. The bird one was funny. I'll give him that. All right. So I forgot it though. So obviously wasn't that good. It was a lie bird. A lie bird. That's what it was. All right. So let's talk about whitetail deer a little bit. We did a little driving around checking on some stuff yesterday and we were talking and it's just that lull time. Right. I mean, you're starting. I know you were showing me some trail camera photos and all of us are starting to get that. Like, oh, look at this one. He's got this much antler, you know, towards this big around. But when do you guys really get started out there? Like, when do you really feel like that your trail cameras and stuff start lighting up? Well, I think a lot of guys by me don't do a lot of prep. You know, a lot of New York, New Jersey guys, I think I probably would say the majority are just wait to hunt the season. They have their stand. They might go check on it. But for me, you know, I kind of I'm there all year round. Right. You know, I start. I didn't want to start too early this year because, you know, nothing really happens for a couple of months. But I did. I did have a couple of deer that I wanted to see if they were still alive. What's considered too early? You already got your cameras out. I know. I think that might have been a little too early because I think it little knobs on everybody. Last year, I was even earlier. So, what time did you start last year? February? Yeah, I had my cameras out. Some of my friends keep their cameras out all year long, especially now with cell cams. They keep them. I've got about five that have been out all year long. So when did you put them out last year than May? Yeah, I had them early. So this year, I was the I had two out in March. I just in big boy area where I have the big deer. I wanted to see if he was still alive. But I still have I still no one knows where he is. He's a secret. But I still have like a bunch of cameras. I'm not going to put out until, you know, I get back toward the end of June. You say he's a secret and you post them on your social media? No. He was on your Facebook. Yeah, one time, one time. People don't know where he is. People don't know where he is. You don't think? No, it's not like that. It's not like that. I mean, I would think it'd be more so because it's more rare. Too many people. No, yeah. It's it's it's not like that. People like you guys know everyone. You know your neighbors. You know who hunts their properties. Not like that. I think the majority of people who hunt, especially the fact that it's not private property. No one knows. It won't be way different. Yeah, because no one knows no one knows necessarily where I live. So it's it's a little different. But you got but I so we were back at pencil. We were in Pennsylvania for the uh, what is it now referred to? It's not the Harrisburg show. It's the creative read American outdoor show. Yes, what two years ago. Mm hmm. And when we were back there, people were coming up and showing us pictures, you know, like trail camera photos and deer they had killed. And New Jersey was one of them. But Maryland surprised me. Maryland's got some really good deer and there was Delaware. Yeah. Delaware for the smallest Delaware is we kept having guys come up and say, yeah, kill this one in Delaware. And they were and they were not like 140 inch to 50 inch deer. They were 170 180 inch deer. Big big bucks. Yeah, they were monsters. That's weird. I didn't know that. But they also, if I remember right, they were telling us that it was like it's one one buck over there or they have a lot of a lot of limited um in Jersey or in Delaware. In Delaware. Delaware. I hunted Delaware like I believed two years ago. And I've seen some of their state land. And it's really thick and it goes from miles and miles and miles. So there's definitely a big buck back there. It's just if you get back there. But you can get a tag as a non-resident. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's over the counter. How many states do you hunt? Because you live where you can access several. Yeah. So usually, usually I spend most of my time in New Jersey, but I do hunt Pennsylvania a lot as well as once occasionally upstate New York. And then a Delaware or Virginia once in a while. Which is a different type of hunting down there. Yep. And the deer are big. Virginia, Maryland have some big deer. Yeah, I, well, they didn't years ago, but it's all changed. I mean, not all of its change, but a lot of it has changed. A lot of states have found I will seem to be one of the forefront leaders in that if you have quality rather than quantity, it works. And they've learned that. And I think that's one reason why our tag is so high. And it's so sought after that. You got to draw it, you know, but and so a lot of states have followed in suit with point restrictions or with the restrictions or a combination of both. And then hunt clubs and stuff like that are doing that doing the same thing to manage their deer to get to the age structure, you know, to hopefully get their deer a little older and everyone it's paying off across the nation. I mean, you're seeing doing that over there though. Oh, yeah, they're doing that around again. I don't know about a new jersey. Yeah, I'm not sure if they're doing that by me. PA is for sure. They're one of the big ones. Like a point restriction or what? They went to a point restriction that was when did they do that? Well, New York, I know New York, upstate New York has done that several years ago. So you have to have at least three points on one side. Right. So that's helped upstate New York because when I was younger, I would hunt inside though. But like three points on each side or just one side on one side. So let's say it was a three and then it could be a spike as long as it's that. But when I started hunting, let's say when I was 14, 30 years ago, my dad, there wasn't any. So you could go upstate in New York and there's so much dense woods and especially in the Catskill Mountains where I hunt, that you could literally spend a week in a tree stand and never see a deer. Found your deer. Littlely never see a thing. Found his deer in the Catskill Mountains. He said we was a kid. Oh dang it. Oh, when I was a kid. So much for nobody not knowing. No, so you go up there and you go up, we go up to our shock on or go up early. And it's just, so people say if you go upstate New York and you see a six-pointer, it's a trophy because you might never see another deer again. And eight-pointer is great. So but since they've done the antler restriction, they say now they're seeing bigger and bigger deer because guys would go up there and you know, when I was younger, if we saw a four-pointer, that's a, you shoot it. Right. You know, you should see a spike, you shoot it. Now they're not allowed to do that. Well, that was when I lived in Virginia as I was growing up, same thing. I mean, it was pretty much. Shoot any buck you saw. Anything. And I won't say that we, it was, I don't know if it was common not to see a deer. I mean, it would happen more than it does living out here in Montana, for sure. You know, or even when I moved dark and saw the deer density was more. But it wasn't uncommon to not to go hunting a day and not see a deer at all. You know, you could have that happen pretty, pretty regularly. And if you were a guy like holding off for a decent size buck, you had a good chance of eating a tag, you know, I mean, it just wasn't like they existed everywhere. That's hence the reason, I mean, my comment to my wife years ago was all I want to do is see a Pope and young deer. I mean, and I was in my 20s when I said that to her. I'm still waiting. No, you've seen one while waiting. Maybe to kill one, but I just wanted to see one. I had never seen what I truly could say that I thought was, which I could, I probably couldn't have scored it very well. And either I probably might have seen one and didn't know it. But I didn't see anything that was like way over, you know, 125 inches. And so it's just a whole different ballgame as you move around the country. Everyone's hunting is, it's just different. Whether it's hunting down south and you're hunting swamp land and things like that, you guys have a little bit of both. I mean, I don't know about right in New Jersey, but I know like Maryland, you can get into some of the, where the Chesapeake River, I mean, the Chesapeake Bay comes in and it's totally different than, but then parts of Maryland are mountainous and like West Virginia. So it's really cool, you know. One of the things that I, I definitely noticed it's different in hunting culture. So I started bohunting again when I was, when I was 30. So, you know, I'm 47, been, been a long time. The last five years I've been out here, the first time was, you know, five years ago I came out here. I had 12 years of hunting bohunting before I came out here where I am. No one talks about numbers. No one. I didn't know what it meant for to be 130, 130 inch deer. No one even ever says when people show deer, they don't talk about numbers. When I come out here, it's a lot more focused on this age class, this age class, this age class, guys where I am are just eight point. I shot a buck. I shot a buck. That's it. They're just happy that they don't care what size it is. And that's probably one of the reasons we don't have those upper age class deer because guys are not letting them live that long. Well, it's probably two partly like if it's, I mean, I don't think you'd see here people near as focused on the age or the size of them here if they weren't, weren't that big. You know, because you get to a certain point where yeah, a buck's a buck but then when you get to like 150 inch deer that that's bigger buck. Then you get to 190 inch deer and that's a really big buck. You know, it's all these different classifications of it. I think I don't know what, I don't know enough about the East Coast but from what I've seen as far as just from other people and some of the deer you've shown me, I think that you guys, the genetics of your deer are not all that far off of the world. They're getting there. I agree. They're getting there. Well, the deer that you've got, your big boy. Yeah. I really think that deer definitely won the last year. But he's definitely, he's definitely not the north. He's definitely. Yeah, not as I'm saying is if, if you guys had the same one you never will because you have so many more people and so many more hunters and you it sounds like I think you guys have a lot more public than we do too where land here is a lot more controlled that your guys is deer. If they were able to get the same age structure that ours are that I don't know if you guys as quality would be that much different. I think genetics in terms of, I think the biggest difference is not necessarily mainframe size. It's either tie and length or mess. I think that's one of the biggest differences because you've seen deer I showed even that one I showed you today size wise. You know, 23 could have been 24 inches wide but it was pencil thin. So it's just was he too, you know, but the genetic, but I think the genetics are different in terms of for sure. Yeah, in terms of mask, you're heavy, but even body-wise. Body-wise, you're a heavier. 140, 150 pound dress deer. It's huge. How old are those deer though? I'm granted that they're probably only three years old. A lot of the, I don't think you're killing many five year old deer back there because they just don't have an opportunity to make it. Well, there's not a lot of our three year olds that are going to weigh more than 150 dressed. I don't know. I mean, what do you think? Yeah, so, so we get three year olds dressed here. I'm pretty sure mine was quite a ways over that. 170, wasn't he? Yeah, it was a three year old. That one was 170. I'd have to go back and go. 140 or 170. It was 140, I think. Well, it might have been, but you're also talking about the end of the right winter. Yeah. I mean, we were almost a December. No, I don't, I don't think a lot of our three year olds I think are still going over that pretty easily. Look, man, I'm a pretty experienced three year old killer. And I'm telling you right now that I think that they are bigger than that. At least from the deer that I've seen when I'm traveling through those places, they don't even look, they just, you, you, you trap from us to there. I mean, you drive 10 hours and you're in a different enough area that you can tell back home, they're way bigger. The bodies are just, even the doves, the doves look way bigger. But I wonder if it's a different age structure. I think one of one of the biggest differences in terms of deer is also, that's actually not, it's subspecies too. Yeah, there's like four or five different subspecies of white tails. Yeah, there's a lot. There's 17 subspecies. Well, there you go. It's way under, but I know that there's is a completely different multiple different little ones. The plain white tails compared to Montana. I think they have potential for bigger deer than Montana. Sure, those deer are, those deer do get a lot of them get to the age class and they just top out at 140 or 135. That's as big as they get. Pents like a, Pennsylvania, which is right next to us, has tremendous amount of deer this way. It's right over the bridge, boom, but the different type of deer, those are big. But I think one of the things that hurts New Jersey also is the fact that the tag is over the counter. You do have that dense population of Staten Island, Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx. You have New York City, which is 20, 30 million people. And there are a lot of hunters in the city. Hold on, because now now you just brought up an idea. All those huge deer that you send us all the time. Where are those ones? Those are in Staten Island. They swam from Jersey to Staten Island. I guess they ran from the hunters and now they're just growing, but those are abnormal deer. I mean, they're unhuntable. You can't have them. But they might be a prime example. You go the same deer and just they're getting eight, because those are 170, 180, 90, and 80. But my point is that since Jersey is over the counter, like I showed you today, I told them today that with this, the population of Staten Island, being 13 miles long, is almost 500,000 people. There are a lot of hunters in Staten Island, where they're going. Are they going to drive three and a half hours to the Catsville Mountains? I'll go right over the bridge and be able to hunt New Jersey in 30 minutes. They might only have one or two weekends a year to hunt. So when they come out, you buy a tag over the counter. They go in their decimating public land and anything that comes out, they shoot. So, and the number of people that do that is a lot. Brett, who came here and hunted with us, was shown me pictures and he lives by New York as well. And the state parks is incredible how big their deer are. Upstate New York, just even around New York, like New York City. He's a New York City. He's a firefighter in New York. And he was showing me pictures and stuff of big deer. I mean, you can't hunt it. But like 170, 180, and steer. Yeah, that's like what they're saying. Where those runs are in Staten Island. The ones that are in Staten Island are the population that you can't hunt. They have tags on the ears. All of them have been captured at one point. They've been given insect to me so they can't reproduce, which New York City's paid over three million. I think almost three or four million dollars for the insect to me program, which it came out that it failed. It didn't work because all you need is a couple of survived to keep on going. So, did they try it again? No, why did they stop doing that? Why did they care? Because they were trying to stop the deer. Staten Island is so highly populated that the amount of deer accidents, it's just getting, because the amount of traffic, the way people are driving, there's no room for them. There are parts of Staten Island that are woodlands, but there's so many. It went from like being 900 the next couple of years. There's like three, four thousand. There's too many people there to be that many deer. So, what they did was they paid money instead of, they captured them. They had them in their hands. Instead of shipping them back to Jersey, they decided to spend money to pay a doctor, X amount of money to come and give them the insect to me so they can't reproduce. Put them back on Staten Island. Now, with tags on their ears, so they know which ones which. So, they didn't catch the doves though, right? No. Well, some of them, I actually have seen some with tags, for whatever reason, but you didn't go and try and get them to drop them all in your spot? I wish. I wish. Well, here, I do know a police officer, and one of the problems that's happening, three years ago when I was living in Staten Island, one of the things that he, one of the officers told me that there was like 12 to 15 people that year that got called for approaching. And they're doing it because the deer are so big that the guys are, and they're coming people's backyard. You know, you have a 160-inch deer in your backyard, and you're driving three and a half hours upstate in New York to sit and see nothing, and he's right in your backyard. No one's around looking at these guys' attempt, and they're getting caught. Why wouldn't they open it up to hunting? It's too densely popular. I agree. They could designate areas in the state parks on the state lands where it designates stands, and you know, they... People would pay money, and that's my whole point with that stupid program that they came up with is the taxpayers' money, so we all paid for that to happen. Well, probably not us, but New Yorkers. New York, but the average person is what I'm trying to say is the average person's paying taxes for them to go out and try a program that you know is going to fail, because you cannot get every single buck and keep every other buck from finding out that those are in heat across the river. They had to had biologists tell them that that wasn't going to work. Well, some biologists must have convinced them that it was going to work. Because there are parts of... Because where I was, I'm right next to the bay, which leads to the Atlantic Ocean, there's parts of the area between Staten Island and New Jersey that are maybe 100 yards wide. It's not very far, and they swim in and harpy, and there's people who videotape them sometimes swimming over. But it sounds like with that many people, it would be hard to even shoot them with a bow. I would imagine. It would be hard, but I know there's certain programs in New Jersey that have municipal areas where they do allow certain amount of hunters to hunt in places, and they make it a rule where if you're one of the people selected, you get put in a designated stand, and you actually have to shoot five doves before you allow to take one buck. And that's how they manage it in Jersey. They could do the same thing in New York. There's enough hunters that would apply, and even if you give us a test, give them a proficiency test, in terms of our hunting knowledge, and our hunting safety, and our ability to shoot. I'm glad. I'd pay to go in a stand and do that, absolutely. I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to say that it's probably a conflict to most people. They wouldn't agree with me on this, but urban hunts here in the same way. So if you want to get an urban tag for, say, Polk County, which is Des Moines, it depends on the area. But one, you have to be approved. You go through the sheriff's office, the police department. They approve you for it. Once they approve you for it, then you can go as long as you kill five doves in that season, then you're put in for a drawing for the following season for a buck tag. Now, if you want it, if you want to continue that, you have to keep five doves as your minimum. But if you are the top, if you kill the most doves, it's like one of the guys I tracked for this year, killed like 31 doves last year. And he killed, he killed the most out of all of them, guaranteed a tag right there. So he gets his buck tag. It doesn't, it's not in the drawing. He already knows he's getting one. If we do, but I think he's in my, in my opinion, I think that where Iowa is at right now with a buck to dough ratio, I do not think, and you said that, I don't remember where you said you do it, but you have to, you have to kill your dough before you can kill your butt. That's in New Jersey, because New Jersey declared, I think it was like five or six years ago, they declared like a statewide deer emergency. That's why they made this, because there's so many deer injuries. And I think that they should do something similar to that in Iowa, simply because you're bucked, I don't even, I haven't even checked now, because and I don't think it's any better than what it was five or 10 years ago. And it's like 10 to one, like 10 doves to one buck here. Yes. I don't think it's happening. Yes, it is. We're talking to the biologists. I had a biologist tell me that. And so 10 to one, it's healthy as one to one, if not two bucks to or what is it? Two doves to one buck, right? So one to one or one to two. And it's like 10 to one right now. So it's way out of whack. And I think that it would be extremely beneficial to have something in there that yeah, we have world class bucks, but you got to earn it. You got to go kill a doe or two or some something of the sorts, because I do think that would help our population. I think our hunting would be better. I'm not saying there's not already, but I do think that you're going to have a lot better ruts. You're going to have a lot better hunting. You're going to have a better quality and better healthy population if you were to do that. Oh, I think the state would agree with you. They'd like to kill a lot more doves and they think they keep thinking that issue more doe tags and more people will just go kill them. They don't, you know, and it doesn't work. That's where they do that for us. They do that in September. They don't wait until October, October, come October 1st, you could shoot whatever you want. Well, that's why we open September 10th or September 7th and they have you earn a buck in September, if you want to shoot early season, you have to shoot a doe first before you think about it. They somewhat attempted that with us last year, but they did it right way out of whack. They opened up a high powered rifle season, because we don't have high power here. High power rifle season for a week or week and a half something like that. Once the season was over. So January 10th, everything's out. Well, the next week you could go with a high power and shoot as many doves as you could get tags for it. Just for the leftover doves. Yes. So that was a good idea in theory, but now we're dealing with whatever doves were bred that we're going to have fawns, whatever bucks have maybe shed it already that they're shooting and not having any clue with their shooting as opposed to doing that a week before season and allowing people to do that. Or like what we're talking or what I'm saying of doing a requirement, you have to shoot a doe or two in order to earn your buck tag. Well, we're talking about earning. What do you think about this idea? I kind of feel like it's a little unfair and I know our goal as hunters, we want to inspire the next generation to come and hunt and get them involved and that's why one of the reason we do the camp, but make you make the use season that they can only shoot doves. Because why should a six-year-old be able to shoot 183-inch deer when we have hunters have hunted for 20 years, 20 plus years and haven't got to even see a deal like that. And a six-year-old is coming out there with a 350 legend and blasting a 182 from 200 yards away. You just gave me a phenomenal tick-tock clip. That's going to pull me off. I agree with you. I just don't think, listen, and I want to inspire them, but they're shooting such big deer. Are those deer on Staten Island, like, tame? Some of them make people. Some of them, the biggest. Too many people feed them. Too many people feed them and they'll just stand right there. You could probably walk within six feet of them. I have a four. I've walked of big deer. Four or five. Yeah, from really big deer. I'll sit there and film them and I'm like and they just, yeah, because people feed them all the time because they think they're pets. Okay, I was just curious on that. But also, you would think that one of the reasons why they could not harvest them because I lived in Buffalo for one year. There was a deer problem in Buffalo and they did what was called a bait and shoot. I know someone who was involved, they put a thousand pounds of corn out and had sharp shoots from police department, said a hundred yards away and then boom, boom, boom, boom. That's how they, that was their idea of getting rid of the population. Get rid of the population. We're in the reason that they couldn't do that in Staten Island. I don't say Russia with the wolves. It was crazy because so many people say, well, there's so many starving people in New York. There's so many homeless people. Why not shoot that meat and then donate it? One of the reasons why they wouldn't do that is because Staten Island used to have the largest garbage dump on it in the world. It was the landfill. And since then, they closed that and they covered it up and they put dirt on it and now there's grass growing and any given day, you'll see a 30, 40 deer on top of the landfill eating the dirt or eating the grass, which is on top of hundreds of years of garbage and who knows how that affects their meat and they wouldn't do it. So that's one of the reasons why I think they don't want to touch the deer because because there's too many groups that would be like, well, you're just killing them to kill them. Even from a political standpoint, there's too many people, too many groups against that, that humane groups that would say, you can't do that. You can't just kill them to kill them because you can't even eat them. How far is Staten Island from your place? How long does it take to get there? About 40 minutes, 45 minutes. So that means you in January? That means it's a mile away. Listen, I'm going there every day and I'm going to grab their antlers and pull on them every day. And I will have you allowed to shed on it? Yeah, absolutely. My hunting season, my hunting season ends and I have friends and I'll show you pictures of friends who shed on it every year and they get like a base of like out of luck. I am pulling them off their horns going to be over there with a little hammer. I'm checking them every day. I'm just going to go up to them, bring me more. How awesome would that be? They're just pulling 80 inches? That's all fresh here right there. I can tell by the way it is. There are a lot. This will be perfect for TikTok. It's dripping. Okay, I wonder what deer it went to. Let's see if the other one's ready. Not yet. A few tomorrow, buddy. I am going to disagree a little bit. We're going back to the youth. Yes. I'm going to disagree and I'm going to agree and disagree. And here's my thing. I don't think taking the opportunity for a young kid to harvest a deer that is a deer of a lifetime is correct. What I do understand is that the part that I have a hard time with, especially around us, a lot of our small communities and we're in school, a lot of the kids hunt where we more and went to high school. All the kids pretty much everybody hunts. So out of however many kids are there, there's always a couple of kids that are really, really, really young that go in harvest like 180 to 200 inch deer. And it's crazy. Okay, especially considering the fact that me personally sitting in a stand for 11 years now, just in Iowa, I can't say that I've ever seen a two, maybe one 200 inch deer in 11 years. And these kids go out there and harvest them. Now don't get me wrong. I think that's really, really cool. And I think that's actually, I mean, 100% I'm jealous because I'd love to do something like that. But I think it's awesome that they got to do that. Here's where I have the issue with it is because I know dang well when I was that age, or I mean, there's very few kids that I think that actually understand the value of what they did. And the issue with that is not because they don't necessarily understand the value of what they have done, or how impressive, or how cool, or even how lucky it may have been, but how once in a lifetime that could be, the other part of that is that now they have nowhere to go to. We always sit here and I refer to it all the time as every hunter is going through some form of a stage in hunting. And whether that's to harvest a certain deer in a certain way, or to be able to harvest your first year, or to be able to shoot a certain size, or a certain age caliber, whatever that is, these kids, when they shoot a 200 inch deer at nine years old, and they just think it's really cool because all they can see is how big the antlers are. Well, now when the kid starts getting a little older, maybe if you're lucky, he starts to understand, okay, that was like a way out of like that's an outlier kind of thing. And they start understanding what the size or what their goals really are. You got to go to the goal of you season first off. What do you think the goal of you season is? It's a good thing. You can't be more hooked and I understand you can't be more hooked than shooting the 180 inch deer your first time out, but also I agree with what you're saying a minute ago. But hurts them. And I disagree with the 182 because I believe that an 82 inch deer of a fork and horn. I agree. That kid is going to be, they cannot. But that's the majority. Most of them are. But the ones he's talking about are an outlier. That's 5% or less of these kids that are that are wacky. Even some of the ones that I've seen have been tremendous. Yeah, but that and then and how and I know exactly who you're talking about. No, but even the one. They have even the one 30s. Even the one 30s. Let's put the boys in the air on tremendous deer. Even that's a tremendous deer on what? On the parents. The blame belongs on the parents. Absolutely. I would agree with that because it is dad or mom or grandpa or uncle or whoever that says, whoa, whoa, don't shoot that one. There might be a bigger one come in. Hold on. I got a spot. I'm going to take you to kill this really good deer. You know, I'm going to take you and have you. I got a 190 inch deer and I want to kill this before the neighbor so we can get in there in youth season. Come on, little Johnny. Let's go shoot this deer. That is for Johnny though. That's for the. Absolutely. That's what I think it does happen sometimes. I think sometimes, but I also think that there's a chance that they're going to sit and they haven't. When the random deer happens to walk by, but we happen to. Is that also fair to you guys either? Absolutely. Absolutely. I don't know. That's why I do it out there for you to discuss because we don't have a youth season by me. We don't have that. Not that I know of or not that I. But I think what they're saying is that counteracts the goal of youth season. Absolutely. The goal of youth season is to get them, which I don't agree with taking making a dose only. I think that they that the whole goal of youth season is to get kids introduced to hunting and to get them excited about how to make them shoot a doe first. However, I don't think that starting at the top is a very good idea. I don't think that would be putting them on 170 inch deer and and I want them to I want them to shoot a fork and horn or a spike so that they're excited about shooting that next year or the year after or then getting a little bigger, a little bigger. What you're saying is that is filling the tag with what he wants them to kill, which I don't agree with them either necessarily saying hey, we're going to go try and kill a six year old crap buck. That is like I already think that they're out of all of the youth hunters and we're just referring to Iowa here because that's what we're around is a very small percentage that is killing that big of deer every year, but at the same time if you're doing it going off of that, like the dad is telling them to do that. I think that's an even smaller percentage of the kids that are killing those deer, but what I will preface that with is if you go just simply look at the TBI page, Instagram page, trophy bucks, Iowa, okay. Simply just follow the page and you're going to see probably anywhere from 10 to 15 kids that are probably under the age of 12 that have killed bigger deer every year than what I've ever even gotten shot at. That's because of the time of the year for the deer. They're able to have them on a pattern like that where if that is paying attention or mom or whoever. The only reason I'm even saying that is just to show the amount of kids that have that really, I mean, I do think there's quite a few. I want to make sure that I'm clear here. I'm not saying to protect the big bucks for me or the neighbor or anyone else. You're making sure they carry a lot. Mine is to say that I'm not even protecting the big buck. What I want to do is protect the integrity of hunting and that is I want them to be so excited about killing a deer that the next deer is attainable because when you have a kid that goes out and he kills the 200 inch deer and we know of a kid that his first year was over 200 inches and he was passing everything that he was by the time you came along in high school and it's like what's the point in that? You know, I feel bad for him. I remember your time. So what do you think I do pyramid scheme? What do you think some solution would be to that or are there any? I don't know. I don't know if I do deal or or something to that. What can you do? There's nothing. I don't think there is. I think it's something. Is there anything you could do? Would you want to change anything or just keep that the same? We as parents of you season being able to go out. I think that has to be a it's no different than the schools have changed apparently and I don't have kids in school anymore so but the kids are getting away with all kinds of stuff again. That's a that's a parent problem. You know and so I think that the answer to it is not by the state law you know I don't think instilling something is necessarily where it needs to go to but we have to stop once in a while and remember I mean I love taking these kids hunting and I and when we take a new kid hunting I want to be able to tell him you can shoot whatever you want because I don't know what's going to walk out. We had a good buddy of ours take a kid this year for the first time and he's heavily in a managing his farms you know and he's all about making sure that his deer are are he's only shooting old deer whole bit right and he called me because we've taken lots of youth hunters obviously and asked me he's like where do you what do you where do you take these youth hunters you know is it because I'm afraid that one of my big three year olds or whatever is going to walk out and he gets smoke and I said I go all and he's like what I was like I take him to places where I don't care what they shoot because I want them to I want the first buck that comes out the first thing that gets their heart pumping I want them to shoot it and be super excited about it and I want to be excited about it with them so when I say garhole I'm not saying that I take them to a bad spot I'm take I'm taking them to a spot where I don't really care about the quality yeah yeah okay um and then he's like and so he's like okay I think I have a spot where I do that and and and then he did that and kids shot a you know a little four point deer that he was absolutely stoked about and it was perfect you know that's that's what I think it's so your youth tank should is the goal of it is is the thing is it's more of a you have to handle it in house you it's more of a family thing it's a parent thing you have to just make sure you kid you know you seasons and hanging you guys are on there I don't think it's and no because see a lot of states don't have it because they start hunting whenever we saw so early we saw September there's no age just there's no age limit so you season starts like night for turkeys or anything either no Arkansas in Virginia I can start in September one there is a U-season for us for birds for peasants I know that but I'm not sure anything else yeah see yeah I think part of what um I have that opinion for is because my first deer is a prime example the fact that if I would have just been waiting for a certain specific deer or a certain caliber of deer because we're in Iowa I would have had that chance if because I had a deer come by that if he scores 60 inches we're lucky but I was freaking out Warren granted him in for me and everything and I was super excited I shot that deer and not 30 minutes later an absolute tank comes to walking into the same exact spot at like 25 or 30 yards and it was probably a hunt looking back on I don't even remember maybe 150 oh he's probably pushing 160 I mean he was a but he was gorgeous now back then I made the comment of what are the chances of that I can't believe this all this crap right I'm 12 but I look back on it now and I thank the Lord every day that I think about that that oh thank god I did not get a chance at that deer because the past couple years as I've matured some I've understood why I love hunting as much as I do and that why is only because of how I've done it to start and how you've allowed me to have that green light all the time because if I didn't have that big as deer until two years ago exactly and I don't know if the fire that I have of how much I hunt right now would be there or still be there because I would have already accomplished something and to me it wasn't that hard to do and right now last year I got my absolute butt what left and right trying to accomplish something and I love that I hated it in a moment but I love it because you have the opportunity to you have the new thing you have the something that you have to accomplish and and when you start at the top where's the top now and I think that as far as the sake of hunting I just when I was at Pope Young talking about it not only are we trying to get new people involved but we're trying to keep them involved and I think that a lot of the kids that get the opportunity to shoot these 180-200 inch deer 10 years down the road why do they do that they either gonna have that fire that they are gonna want to keep hunting because they love the hunting that much or they're gonna get to the point of already kind of done it who cares if I go or not or I don't really care anymore and to put it on to something else devils advocate though maybe they won't because here's the only thing I'm gonna say about that I think that if you think about this way when um you killed what touch who else you killed some good deer the ten with yeah at the house and with um with dad or with me or whoever and then once you got older and you weren't a youth hunter anymore or a kid anymore now you had this new desire to go do it on your own right I had and so now it wasn't necessarily about the size it was about doing it yourself and where I could relate that to is elk hunting I know when I killed that bull in New Mexico that little five by five bull I killed or whatever that bull to me was a um sign that I was capable of doing this myself because everybody every other bull at that point dad had called in for me and and then I got a shot at him right so it wasn't like hey I've already killed an elk I'm not interested in killing an elk now and I still shot a small bull and I was stoked about it because like holy crap I was able to take what dad taught me and then I was able to do this all on my own I made every single decision I made every single call and then I did every single thing and killed this bull yeah so maybe it wouldn't matter maybe the kid kills a 200 inch deer but in six years now he has that goal of I'm gonna do that without dad's help or without my family's help I'm gonna have my own place I'm gonna go and I'm gonna find this I'm gonna find this deer I'm gonna figure it out I see I can 100% see that but at the same time for me the the timeline or the progression of my hunting has been kind of flipped like for those kids I think it would maybe be like hey I want to do this on my own now I want to see if I can do it maybe do it again or do it this way or whatever some new challenge and for me yeah I want honestly anybody that's listened to some of the stuff we've talked about maybe in the past two years so it's probably hurting me say something along the lines of I've taken a break from hunting before and when I've taken that break from hunting it wasn't because I had accomplished everything it wasn't because I had done this or that it's because I wanted to know if I really liked it that much and then when I came back is when I understood why I liked it as much as I did and started doing it again and I don't think that that necessary yes I wanted to do it on my own yes I wanted to have my own places and everything but I don't think I ever stopped in my opinion actually I know I didn't ever stop because I was so accomplished I never had that in the back of my head because yeah I'd killed at that point would be too big deer in my still in my opinion too big deer but there was also another 10 or 12 or whatever of dose and fork and horns or little basket racks with it too so it wasn't I guess my point is that mine wasn't because or not not hunting wasn't because of something that I had accomplished mine was because I wanted to know why I wanted to hunt so you're agreeing though really no I'm saying I could see that I could see what you're saying about that but in my circumstance that's not that's not the case is what you're saying though is that you could have killed 170 inch deer at 14 years old and I think it wouldn't even be different though it wouldn't have hindered your interest in trying to go and kill 150 inch deer on your own no that's what I'm saying is if I would have killed like a really really big deer like 170 180 each deer I think my thought process would have been well yeah I've already kind of done it I good I just come back to the fact that I don't think a kid can only appreciate so much when he only has so much experience that's my point and so and I guess that's what I'm saying is that I mean I they're states I've seen people who I know people who have taken kids and killed deer at six years old four years old I mean I just don't think that kid can really appreciate what he's done or what he's accomplished what he's doing I mean it just doesn't make I'm not saying not to take him I'm not saying not to get involved that's what I'm saying at any age some of the states have no age requirement I'm saying though is so what age what is it an aisle between what age and what age do you have a youth season like when can you start up to 17 that six like I don't think I don't know how early can they start I don't know there's a limit I don't know that's what I'm saying I think so you could be a six-year-old out there and yes you know I actually think it was legendary whatever you want and then when does it stop 16 16 16 I think through 16 is why I was saying yeah I think through 16 is still considered youth and it's how many weeks before your season starts like if you shot two it's so they get two weeks of you see September 15 through October 1 is when we start but they have to have a person with a hunting license with them at what age though would you be able to state that a kid can recognize what he has or has not accomplished can there isn't there's not a way of doing that and that's why I'm saying it's not a law thing it's something that we have to do as a parent you know it's like saying when do you introduce the first cussword to your kid yeah I'm just thinking you know that's up to the parent that shouldn't be up to television that shouldn't be up to social media or whatever I should have the opportunity to do that myself when I decide that my kids can hear the first cussword or if they're ever going to or talk to them about sex that's all me that shouldn't be on the scroll really really random one in there then a really tough one throw I like right so let's just say that you got a new youth hunter and now you take this kid and you let's just take say Eddie Eddie's got Eddie's kids ready to go on Eddie Jr okay Eddie Jr's ready to go hunting okay and we're putting you in in the fatherhood position for Eddie just as a stand-in now is what happens is you go and you take him out to this spot where you're just going to let him shoot whatever right and a 180 walks out shoot it okay tell him to shoot it I know I tell him to pass because I mean I'm not going to take that kid's going to be excited if it was a spike he was going to be excited that's not I'm not that's why he's already at the top as his country is that's why that's why it's a rough one I know I'm not going to answer to it I'm not going to answer to it but if he passes four-year-old or six-year-old management that's what I'm saying is that we're not he can't appreciate it maybe you make him pass it I'll make it and then he shoots just like it all depends where it is because if it's in on a piece of property that I own I'm grabbing a gun for him because I don't want to shoot it right because I've never seen anything close to that size of know you're not we're saving that for me I just wouldn't let him do I wouldn't let him do it I'm going to make both I wouldn't let him do I wouldn't I wouldn't if I was I would teach him restraint I don't know I've never been in this because I don't have a kid obviously but in my opinion I would like to think that I would I would not let him shoot that deer and be banking on the fact that in five six seven however many years he'll look back on that and appreciate why did that because he's going to become a much more accomplished hunter anyways than that I don't want that deer to define it or let him feel defined by it it could go both ways but at the same time I think in like I shoot as quick as you can now actually I can't say that it's screwed up I do I do agree with you point it does take up yeah but Joey's also a good amount of experience to be able to truly appreciate it's just a full decision you have to make a decision where that is but Joey made the decision and I'm just going to I'm just going to tell the three of you because I'm the only dad as living dad that's sitting here at this table you aren't going to be able to tell that kid no you won't take a gun from him you you won't do it I'll man that's a real one that's a real one you don't know new jizz I know I'm so because you'll be more excited as a dad if he shot that deer and and even if you never shoot a deer that size in your entire life you're more you're happy for the kid I I agree it's hard to say to now and say that but I'm sure when he's in front of me and I look at his face and he's like daddy I want to shoot that all right go bless them I'm not going to go do it I would much rather have my kid tell me that then my kid look up at me and say I don't want to shoot that small buck that that now I'm I feel like I've screwed up I've delivered the wrong message because you guys were all about shooting when you were young and that was and even though I was already killing stuff and and starting to manage myself I was not going to put that on them that was not what it was we just need to try to find one that you know a legal deer that you can shoot and we'll be ready to rock and roll well even when we moved Iowa I just got lucky yeah everyone's like oh man you killed circune no I got lucky because those ones came by first he you can ask eastern where I shot I shot my deer out of the same exact stand that he did and I was trying really hard to shoot one probably 25 inches smaller than that a few hours before but he wouldn't come in so you remember that deer yeah I think that's I think that's a huge top just sick I really do one of the campers did bring that up to me the the young gentleman keegan shot his first buck this year and he's like he's like and I shot that buck and then a couple minutes later a bigger one came by well listen I'm glad you shot the small one because that one's going to grow back and bigger next year and you can come back and maybe get it bigger so but even the kids would think I want the their goal even though they never shot a buck before and he's been hunting for actually many years he wanted the biggest thing I was like listen I'm happy to shot the small one part of the issue is we've talked about it a little bit but it's us 100% us actually I wouldn't say 100% I'd say a big portion is us and I say us as in people like us people that have a TV show that are managing farms that are doing this posting social media things as well as parenting the same same same culprit I guess you could say but I think the issue with that is because that's what we're doing because that's the stage that we're in with hunters because you two have been to certain stages in the past four or five years where I've still been the one sitting here shooting with the first thing that walked by but they don't understand that because when they're scrolling through social media or they're sees sees a tick talk where we have 10 of our biggest deer over the past 20 years on one thing one they don't understand the time frame of which those videos came from to they don't understand that where we've come from or where somebody that has a show or somebody that has a big following on social media has or the amount of time that they've put in to find these deer the amount of work and effort and things like that and so as much as it's kind of a double edged sword because no one in my opinion we're not doing the wrong thing whatsoever we're doing what we're doing we're helping trying to help people understand how we're doing it the way we're doing it and the things we're doing and all sorts of but at the same time simply posting that is almost wrong because you're sitting you know kids going to see it but you're never going to be able to avoid that so I guess I don't I don't really have a point with that besides the fact that we're to blame too somewhat with that but I don't know how you fix it I don't know how to help with it because your discretion is advised you have to use common sense because at the same time you got it I think it's just as wrong I think is I think it's just as wrong if not more wrong for me or dad or whoever to go and shoot a deer that we wouldn't be happy with just to appease a social fault I'm not talking about shots I'm just I know what I'm saying if I if I went out and shot 130 inch three year old right now I would I would not be happy about that and I and I'm not going to go and do that for a video because that's not fair to that deer yeah it's not fair to the animal and so that's where people have to be able to use their own logic and understand that we came from the same place and we try to share that as much as we can where we've we've all got lots of little animals and I'm just as proud of those if not more proud I can tell you two at the same at this point the deer that I'm the most proud of is not my biggest anymore no you just really really really really really big still yes he's still really great but I'll tell you right now if Magnum had been 200 it would matter it would still be more proudable winkle than I was Magnum yeah I mean I have mine's better because okay 130 inch deer is my most proud one and I've got a lot bigger one I think it's more of a societal thing like everything else it's no different than we go to the gym and and someone come a little kid comes out to us well how do I get big like you we got another 34 years ago before you get there you know they don't realize the stages that you went to get there and and everyone wants instant gratification they wanted to get it now they don't realize it takes time effort you got to put in your hours you got to put in your work to get there so but I but I want to clarify because you made the comment yes I'm not going to go shoot a hundred and thirty inch deer I agree with that statement if you add this I'm not going to go shoot a hundred and thirty inch deer in Iowa so I don't need to I don't I know what we're I'm my hunting if I went to hunt with you and a hundred thirty inch deer that's the biggest I understand I would want to know if I was going to hunt somewhere that I don't know Louisiana Mississippi um Kansas somewhere or wherever I did that Missouri two years I want to know 25 inch deer yeah I was stoked yep and so it's all relative to where you live and and I hope that I hope that we're doing a good job in that we are changing the norm because I agree with you Eastern television and I think when you're saying we're the culprit that's what you're referring to is the TV portion of it and we kill big stuff and it goes on television or it goes out on social media and people see and they think that's all all you ever do you guys are just killing big stuff the one thing I keep telling people is for every five minutes you see of television there was about five days of hunting that took us to acquire that footage it just we're we're we are so fortunate and so blessed to be given the time to spend out there and that we're taking advantage of that time to have that many encounters to get to that point the fact that we live in quite honestly possibly the whitetail capital of the world not just of the United States Iowa is in southern Iowa specifically where we live is probably one of the best places to hunt whitetail deer in the entire world and we're so fortunate to have that opportunity if we didn't live here if we lived in another state and it would be relative to whatever that was and so I always I mean that's why I mean some of these people that show us their pictures sometimes and they always qualify well they're not as big as yours yes they are relatively yes they are yeah brahma if you look at brahma brahma you killed him relatively quickly this year right because you killed him october 24th something like that but yet how many days did you hunt this year still before you killed brahma oh probably 10 or 15 so you still had 15 if you're looked at it as you're going on hunt Iowa that's over two weeks yeah for sure wailing keeps telling me when you let me kill a big one I said when you take enough time it doesn't he's like what do you mean I was like you can't come here for a week I was like I can put you in every spot that I was going to go and sit I could do everything exactly the same and I am telling you there's only one thing that's going to give you a chance at killing one of the big ones unless you get really lucky it's time you need to be you need to give me three weeks if you want a really good chance at killing one of the big the big dogs you you got to give me three weeks what is your argument for the outfitters out there that are bringing people in for a weekend still doing it successfully I don't think that a lot of that's the time that they have though people but they're not I want to answer that they're not there's not a lot of them there's not a lot of them that are coming here and shooting 170 plus inch deer or 160 plus inch deer that are five years or older there's not that many but I think there is quite a few and what they're doing is hold on because I there is an answer to that I believe there's a hundred percent answer and that is the outfitter is the guy spending the time yeah yeah and he's simply putting a different shooter in there and it's spending that amount time I understand that but we don't have we're doing it for ourselves because we're hunting too and so what happens is we don't have time to bring in three or four people and say okay I'm going to spend enough time to focus and find this deer this deer this deer and this deer you can't do that well that doesn't that doesn't that it does that because the other thing too is instead of us sitting in a tree stand where the different farm scouting with our binoculars or absolutely then we would be well then we'd be able to kill all of our deer in one week that's not true no way that's that's what I said that you're just saying you're arguing that an outfitter the people are coming on outfitted hunt for one week and they're killing a hundred and seventy seven hundred do a hundred yeah a lot of times absolutely a five-year-old deer that's one sixty plus and his dad's argument now is that they're doing that because they're putting in that the outfitter is putting that amount of time in to be able to go and do that and kill them a deer in a week and you're saying this he's giving them a better chance for sure right but is what I'm saying then is if that's accurate then every single year you should be killing your deer either between November 1st and November 5th no or October 25th and and because it's got to be based on wherever that one deer is or whatever what deer so then he's not going in that stand until he brings that calling no one's even in that area until he brings in that person right so that person has a better chance as it's untouched yeah but that but you still got to get that deer to do that during that time and I guarantee there's a lot of people that go to outfitters and spend four five thousand dollars and come home empty handed but that's yeah but there's no guaranteeers here in Iowa I think that they'll let them shoot they'll have they don't have an age restriction they have an interest restriction right so it's 150 inch minimum where we have three year olds that are 150 inch deer like if if somebody wanted to come here and shoot 150 inch three year old that we can do for sure in a week almost every time like absolutely but killing a mature deer of that and you start getting to 160 plus rate that's not I don't believe that there is that many that are going to be in a week and that's the difference and that's I agree with you in that the outfitter when if he if he made it an age structure that you could only shoot a five year old deer you just took 50% of his kills off the plate that's what I'm that's exactly I've seen some outfitters because I've looked at a ton of outfitters I've seen some that have a have a restriction is you can't shoot a one of a certain saw like bigger you can you have to shoot something under a 140 like underneath if you shoot anything over there's like a trophy penalty or some kind of charts that you have charge you seven package seven hundred you know dollars more if you saw something bigger I think a lot of people are just that do that are just happy to be out hunting but I think what that does bring up a good point that for someone looking to go with an outfitter there the two there's two different mentalities I've seen both I've hunted at both I think for elk for sure one is quantity one is quality and if you're going with the quantity one then he's looking meaning he's running as many hunters as he can he has good deer and they're getting killed someone's killing them because he's running enough hunters that eventually someone you know kills one I'm looking for the guy that doesn't take as many hunters so maybe instead of killing 25 bucks and we see 10 of them in their 180 I'm looking for the guy that still killed 10 but he only took 15 hunters you know through the whole course of the year 10 hunters and or maybe only killed five but bucked buck per hunter ratio is way better and so you have a better chance at least having that opportunity I mean by far I would rather go that way but that guy's also charging a lot more he's charging a lot more and you probably get more time like some of them have 10 day hunts yeah you know and I think that's more of a realistic time frame to try to kill beer of that caliber but I've never seen I've seen out five day hunts three to hunts oh there's some there's one right around here they do 10 day hunts and stuff and they have they they have exclusive farms and stuff you can pay more for those guys are strictly trophy hunting then they're looking for the 171 80 big and they're and typically the client that's coming there has already he's already at that point he's already killed X amount of deer and he wants to kill he's looking for the next level you know and so that he's the guy that says hey I'll come I'll pay extra money to be out a hunt more days and stay and and I've seen I've seen hunters that do that they come in and then they get there and now they're hooked they see the buck that they're wanting but they didn't get a shot at him they go to the outfiter and say look and I pay to stay you know and next thing you know there's a dude camped out it you know it's like they're supposed to be four of us and camp there's six because two more guys are down here and they're staying it's okay you know I think we should do that at some point just could be really interesting we should go in and and we should take the amount of days that it it's taking us to kill deer that we were truly trying to kill you need one that when you say I'm gonna kill bass drop right or I'm gonna kill bowling or I'm gonna kill straight up which are any of those deer and then we should take the amount of days hunted and we should average it and see how many days it's painful but I also bet you the average is is three weeks it's a lot of days I would I would agree and I a full 21 days or more someone like me is from Jersey who's hunted a lot like even last year I had easily over 130 sits and I've maybe seen in 130 sits no lie 10 bucks all year maybe how many deer do you see all year not a lot so I thought you said Jersey has got toned deer though I know but either they don't like Puerto Ricans or racist or or I'm in the wrong spot so so if I ever do it if I ever do an outfitter like I'm I want to enjoy the experience I want to enjoy the clubhouse the people the talk the conversations and I want to shoot a good deer I'm not I'm not expecting to shoot 150 I want to go out especially if I was a financial advisor again and only had a certain amount of time off I had one week of the year to do that I want to go on how great experience shooting a deer is going to be a bonus I'm not looking for the 160 170 180 if I shot a 130 I'd be happy it was a great experience it's a great time so and believe me no one you'll cast client no one would appreciate shooting a deer like that more than me so and that's because it's been so difficult it's been so difficult it's so difficult so but I have a baby coming so I'll probably have like 20 points by the time I come out here I don't know because I have because after I had this shoot switch from righty to lefty I told myself my goal was a shoot a pope young deer lefty so I haven't got there yet what so it's been 17 years of hunting what's the biggest deer you've ever seen that you think in Jersey hunting hunting on the on the hoof not that big look I look at a pope young I've seen on the side of the road or in fields yes when you're when I've been in my stand nope really not one not one not one pictures are quite a few yeah yeah I do I've quite a few we have to other problems here anti-poor to reek in deer I don't know what it is I yeah I get pictures of a ton I get in the woods and I get nothing so and listen I'm not sure I don't shoot deer I shoot deer but there's nothing you know when when a decent one comes out and when 120 inch or whatever deer comes out it doesn't pass me because at that point it's my that's a big deer but it's my 90th set of the year and it's just so frustrated that I haven't seen anything hold on though because now this is really interesting so you're not you've never seen a pope young deer maybe while I'm in my stand possibly once or twice possibly okay but when I missed what but you kill 115 to 120 inch deer every year yeah so you're killing the top 1% of bucks every year you're doing you're no better than us meaning that he is as good as I'm saying is that we saw what I have over there I'm saying it's a little the public eye when people see us kill 160 inch deer 70 inch deer 80 inch deer you're doing the same thing but that's just what you have available I agree because whenever I bring my deer yeah he's big like whenever I bring my deer to you know I use several butchers or taxidermers or everyone's oh yeah that's a great deer that's a great deer even though if I brought that out here they'd be like why would you shoot that you know but by me that's a good deer right so that's cool no I think you're doing have a deer that are overpoping on camera every year every year every year sleeping in from my stand around my stand at night you know sleeping around myself they'll knock they'll knock on my door it's a hay nighttime I just they're all over that's crazy it's crazy but the thing is like I have several deer on state land but it's there's so many people there like so many people walking around hiking biking and and then at night I'll have these monsters come through on camera it's just but they know that during the day there's so much people activity they just stay stay away I mean like even big boy you're allowed to hike down there you're allowed the people drive their bikes down there and there's bike trails and everything he he knows and then he comes out night he waves at my camera he frustrates my life and then I go there and sit all day and see nothing it's just that's how that's how life more that that's how the the the state lands are there's so many big deer but there's so many people and activities that they know where to hide and they come out at night and they get in your tent different on private out there possibly it all depends on what kind of pressure you put on and what you have because you know a couple guys out there killing like 140 yes however you're right but they but they're on special feeding program they feed their deer special food all year long and they're constantly doing things and and they have certain so I think one of the biggest difference in terms of like just geography in in Jersey you I've heard you mentioned one person has like a thousand acres one person has this I don't see a lot of that by me because there's way too many because there's so many people there that if someone has a piece of property it's it's a 40 acre square or it's a you know 55 I have one one buddy of mine who recently bought a hundred a hundred acre piece and that's like the biggest I've seen anyone have there's always little pieces with tons of human activity in between so the deer are they go from these little pieces to urbans I'll see big deer I'll always send you videos of 140 150 in deer sitting in front of on someone's front lawn and I get them all the time but to get them through the places to where I hunt or the hardwood a lot of times hard because they have to travel through so much urban safety that a lot of them know they're safe and stay there but they'll come out and I'll take pictures of them and I'll show you I'm like yeah they're here but they're hanging out in the pool the backyard I think the the story we were talking about before we got on the podcast about the bear that's a prime example you he had a bear coming every day monster monster bear and he was coming and he was like I know I got him I know he's going to come here first day of bear season he's in a tree two beagles come through and some guys out there got little bells on on his dogs and he's hollering at his dogs and and so he ends up talking to him and the two beagles were he they were bird hunting it was opening day of bird season as well and but because they could be doing what they were doing they're like oh he tells him he's bear hunting they're like yeah we saw a really good bear but he went when he saw us he went this way yeah he was walking toward me down his path and these guys came with their dogs and boom he was out and I didn't see him for like a month month and a half on camera again because once he's once he heard the dogs he obviously knows that every year a certain time the dogs went through there next week I came I saw more dogs and I was like I stopped hunting because there's so many people yeah it sounds like you just should move to a different state that sounds like tolerate that yeah it would I think out of my hundred and so sits probably 80 we're everyone by human activity it was it was probably the most frustrating hunting season I've ever had like there was I hunted a this real quick I hunted a piece of a state land by me was it was muslow season I hiked and hiked and I got to this place on a ridge with my climber and I climbed up and I sat there and there was no trails I looked at my GPS there's no trails around there there are biking trails around but I'm like in the middle often I look down it's for you little young kids walking right underneath me and I'm like what's going I look up the hill and there's more people walking down they were off the trail just walking through the woods and they walk right by me and I'm like I'm done see I wonder why they don't just try to make some kind of different like because a lot of the urban places here during certain seasons they're not allowed to have their dogs off of leashes they're not allowed to be going off the trails and this was January it was caught and they were still walking through the woods just off off path and walk by me and I was like my hunts over that's unsafe too the same time I know I had a muzzleloader right right there and they're walking underneath me you know what if you didn't know that one kid looked up to me and I waved and then did he turn around and walk back or say I apologize or tell the other person oh let's go that way nope kept on walking just and they're defensive they're not I don't even understand and then and then he stopped a hundred yards and they started talking I'm sitting there yo yo what do you like what are you doing and they just didn't there was no Curtis series they just did just took their time down just that's got to be a hunter to hunter kind of thing though I think I'd be trying to knock on doors and and I know you're gonna say it's probably really hard and I think I'd probably walk I would just prepare myself to knock on two to three hundred doors knowing that if I could get three or four pieces that's probably better than than dealing with that many people well hopefully my next step obviously this year I told you I joined the hunting club so now I have five pieces of private that no one's allowed to no one's allowed to hunt on to hopefully have some better luck there because it's it's been frustrated kind of hunting public land with all the activity and we've been last year I think was abnormally warm so no people were out more active later later later and even into November because it was the weather was warm you know what you should do you should swing by like dollar general or you got those out there yeah yeah usually they have them out in the middle nowhere here yeah we have family don't swing in there get like a bunch of fruit snacks and stuff like that and bait the people you know keep them in a certain area while they hunt yeah hang them on trees yeah three beer you could even make a little like game out of it you know like an adventure game where tomorrow there's going to be snacks in this area you know and you move them there and then they're all looking for the fruit snacks with the type of people that are walking through the woods maybe I'll put some some big coolers of bud light in corners and just let's throw them roast it free bud light and have them to see the corner get drunk perfect those ones should be and they'll be really easy to entertain and they'll be on sale because no one's buying them so I'm buying in bulk win win win win you just got a drop the ego when you walk out the door with all that bud light I'll believe it I'll be in my mask no one know it's me it's my people bait no no it's me see maybe you're just you're baiting the wrong one you're baiting the people and keep them out of your way yeah I'll just drop them off in the parking lot to be a park free bud light everyone stay here and have fun I go to my stand I agree I mean like I said I had a lot of that happen when I was younger and immediately I was like I can't deal with this you know but you spent so much time it's just a preparation the time the effort you get there and you drive a certain distance and you're like oh my god it's just wasted yep so and there's no with what it mases me even in states like Pennsylvania there's no restrictions where they allow deer hunting small game hunting because I've had a lot of small game guys ruin my hunts too hunting small game and bird all the same time there's zero restrictions in terms of zones or locations like a bird hunter could be shooting pheasants there and that small game guy could be running his dogs through their shooting rabbits and I'm right here trying to deer hunt and I've had that before I'm like this is just this is just chaos we're all doing at the same time no one you know the only person really have success is the bird hunter you guys don't have more people get shot oh yeah we do yeah every year yep all right well anything else that anyone wanted to bring up otherwise I think this was pretty cool I think it was a definitely a different perspective you know remember and for me it was remembering these guys here and what it's like compared to what we have and I tell you I'd like to go to this one just to just go out there listen no desire I don't think I want to go to the the state land though our hunting season is less until about February 18th more than having with your seasons over you know I'll give you my address we could go hunting January and February out there well I'm definitely coming January all right then I'm not gonna go shaking heads yeah I'm not kidding I'm gonna go on there until a little later here what I'm just gonna be there until one does all right that's fair all right well guys we want to thank you guys again for joining the raised hunting podcast this one was good Eddie thank you for joining us we sure appreciate it thanks for coming out helping with camp yes sir good luck on the even though you know mr. gangster son over here good luck with the new little one that's gonna be a lot of fun hopefully we'll do it again after you have one and see what your thoughts are when little Eddie does start hunting with you so that'll be fun but anyhow I want to thank you guys do us a favor keep dropping the reviews keep letting us know you know what's going on if you got topics that you want us to cover put them in let us know shoot us a message on social media or through our website however make sure you guys go to hype innovations and check out the new sticks that have hit the market market hit the market but I guess the other part of that is our sense I think I can I think I can say that we here should have since back in stock and ready to sail by ready for sale by I'm gonna say July 4th but I'm thinking it's gonna be earlier than that I think Easton talk about it too so we're letting you know now we're gonna do something where we'll let like podcast listeners and people that bought last year know first to make sure that they get their stuff yeah because yeah we're still gonna be have a very hard time keeping it in well we have so many people that have contacted us in May and June asking for sense already that it we're anticipating a flood of sales so yeah it's all good it is it's good but we want it we do appreciate you guys and we want to make sure that the loyal listeners are taken care of first so thank you guys we sure appreciate you this is the raised hunting podcast signing off