Your First Western Hunt: 3 Essentials

All right. Welcome back to the raised hunting podcast. And today I have two very special guests who still don't have name tags. You are waiting for this, weren't you? Yo, let's go. We now have name tags because Warren has provided him special. You are sitting here waiting for that. I did not even notice. Thanks. Great. I was. Why are we doing that? That's good. I like that. It's even a sticky note. So it's super special. Yeah. So now we, my special guests have their name tags on so you'll know who's who. No, you were one too. You're special number one. The special one. You did a good neck. Get this view. All right. Well, welcome back to the raised hunting podcast. And we just need to again say thank you because it continues to grow. And it only reason that it continues to grow is you guys keep following direction and sharing it and and then sending in more topics and things like that. And then today's topic kind of comes from several people that had said, can you guys do something on Western hunting? You know, like going on your first hunt and it just so happens that I know this sounds crazy that Easton was born in Montana, but he hasn't gotten to do any Western hunting. You mean other than he was with us. You gypped me when we moved. Yeah. I moved when I was 12 and you have to be 12 out younger than to hunt, which is dumb. Nebraska. Yeah, we that's not Western hunting. That's not that's Midwest. So anyhow, so that's what we're going to be doing today is we're going to be talking about going on a Western hunt and some of the things that you need, some of the things that you can get away with as far as good equipment or okay equipment. Other things you cannot you cannot take any. You can't cut any corners. You're special number two just fell off. So we'll be pretty bear hunting specific. And then and so and where is this is all coming from is Easton and Warren are going to Idaho. What's the name of the outfit or that you guys are going to be hunting with? Wind River outfitters. Wind River outfitters. I know the gentleman's name is John. I don't know John's last. John Boyer. John Boyer. And you guys are going to be doing a spot in stock bear hunt, which is quite a bit different than the baited bear hunts that you've been on. I don't know that you've ever done anything spot and stock. Did you we kill the bear to? Oh, yeah, that's great. Well, it was kind of a spot and stock, but it was also called it in. That was pretty wild. Yeah, it really was which he did clarify to bring some calls. Oh, yeah. So that'd be good. Oh, really? You know, that whole day was pretty wild. Well, we bet now that we've opened that can of worms better explain. So this goes back. We'll get back to where these guys are going. But when we lived in Montana, we lived in two different places. And the second place that we lived was in the whitefish or in the flathead valley. Northwest corner, northwest corner of Montana. And there was very few white tail deer, very few elk left over there, very few moose. But there was a surplus of bears. There was mainly grizzly bears. We had the wrong kind of bears. So what we did was we took off hunting one day and all three of us went. I want to say you must have been what, 10, 11, 10 or 11. And you were probably 15 years. Yeah, 15 or 16. Yeah. And so we hiked up into the national forest there and it started pouring down rain. And if you remember, I mean, rain and like so hard, we couldn't, we had to get back in the truck and anyhow, we're sitting in the truck and a grizzly bear comes walking down the mountain. And that was the first thing that we saw across the drain across the drainage. He wasn't like super close to us. I thought it was a sow with cubs. No, that one didn't have cubs. That was just what we didn't get any footage of it. No, just a grizzly, just a bear walking down the hill. And then we saw, even though there wasn't very many of them left, we saw a giant moose. I mean, a big, he only had his fronts and just started to grow as, you know, because this was spring. Anyhow, long story short is we didn't, it was raining so hard. We just couldn't stay there. And so we decided to head back home as we're driving home and we're driving through the national forest, which pretty much the whole way home was pretty much national. It was all that way. Well, our luck luck on our side, I guess, or the good Lord just blessing us. A chocolate black bear goes across the road and we're like game on. We got an hour left of daylight here. Let's try this. So we pull over right there. We take off after this bear. And got in there and I decided, well, I have no idea where this bear is going to be. It's thick. I mean, like we can see maybe 20 yards if we're lucky. And so who I can't remember who's running the camera. You were running the camera. Warner was on the game. Easton's carry in bear spray in case the wrong kind. And I start blowing a predator call to see if we can call a bear in and don't do this at home. This was not, I mean, you shouldn't have your kids out there in grizzly country. We did have bear spray and we had a bow. So we were fine. We could protect ourselves. So anyhow, lo and behold, we are standing there, not more than a minute or two. When all of a sudden, I think it was you that saw it first. We saw him come by first and then he came around. You saw it. You saw it. I didn't see it. Well, when I saw him once and then the second time we found out he was right next to us. Right. Yeah, he was like, I don't know. He was like 20 or 30 yards away when we saw, or I guess, I thought you guys saw him the first time too. No, Dan, I didn't see him. So he was like 15 or I saw him when he was out there and then he came around and then he was like, just to our right. Maybe it was under 15 pretty easily. Like he was like, at least at, I'd say, out of max 10 yards. Cause he was, I'm sitting there saying right here, like as quietly as I can. And you guys are, I'm looking at you guys looking over him. Yeah. He's like 20 yards. 20 yards. 25. I'm like, no, no, right here. And so here when I saw him, he was in that little trail. And that was the only thing that we had. That was the only place really I had a chance to shoot. And so anyhow, long story short, I get a shot at this bear and the bear wheels to leave. And I make a bad shot on a black bear, which was not good at that time. But we knew that the shot was not good. Anytime just to clarify, but it's not good. It's really not good in grizzly country, especially when it's getting dark and wolf country and mountain line country and mountain line country. And it was getting dark. So sure there's one or two of them up there. But what we did remember, we reviewed the footage because we did think we heard him go up a tree. I don't know if you remember that, but I thought I heard him go up the tree and I didn't recall that part. Yeah. And, but I couldn't be certain. And so anyhow, we decided after we looked at the footage and said, well, you hit him for sure. We're backing out and we backed out and came back the next morning. We still have that video. Yeah, I think so. We needed to look at that. Yeah, that would be interesting. But anyhow, so we came back the next morning and the bear had only gone. 100, 150 yards and we and it took us a long time to find him because there was no blood until I found that one drop, which led me right to him. But anyhow, eventually we did find the bear. So that has been kind of Easton's experience as far as spot and stalking bears. That would be all of it. Now I did quite a bit of it. And when we lived in Great Falls. I matter of fact, I did a lot and it was kind of I would relate it to shed honey. The amount of miles you put on for how many bears you see is not fun. Not not a good at least where where I was bear hunting at. Now where you guys are going, it sounds like I think there's a larger number of bears. Um, well, it's a two bear unit. Yeah. And even though they had that, well, he could he was talking to us. I told him that Warren was going to bring his rifle or a rifle because he didn't really have one for this situation. All right. Full of all that. You got it too. Twenty two, two, fifty. Why you always forget about that gun? Because that's usually how much I use my guns. Yeah, that's ridiculous. Anyways, he doesn't he's going to take his rifle in case I don't kill him with a bow or something or we can't get one close enough. And the guy in John goes, yeah, if Warren ends up shooting one real quick, we'll just send him out of the mountains mean you'll keep going and he'll go down to town and grab another tag and come back. I was like, you can get two tags. That easy is a non-resident and evidently. So I'd say there's some bears. That should be fun. I mean, it sounds like we got to know, John, at the Iowa deer classic and I think you'll have a good time hunting with him. So you're going to lose me if there's as many sheds as they're talking about. Yeah, he didn't warn us about sheds. He's like, you guys are probably finding some sheds and I'm like, oh boy, I'm bringing the wrong person to go on a bear hunt. But let's talk about what you're going to need. You know, I mean, so this goes for someone going on there. I mean, because I would tell you there's three things. I've said it before. There's three things that you cannot cut corners on. And number three, the first one is boots. Yeah, boots are probably the number one thing that caused people to have crappy hunts other than it's a crappy hunt. But I'm talking about you can have a really good hunt going on. You can have be seeing lots of animals. You're and if the boots that you got on are causing blisters or they're not comfortable, you are not hunting in the next day or two. And so you do not want to cut corners when it comes to boots. So. And obviously, I think it goes without saying we're looking at hiking boots. Hiking boots. Yeah, no, I remember boots or anything. That would be just you have some you'd recommend and just so everybody knows we're not working with anybody on boots. So anything we're giving you is 100% unbiased. Well, I mean, I have worn. I haven't worn the crispies. But I've been with some guides that have been wearing them. And John wears right and they speak highly of them. And they look very similar to the boot that I am familiar with. And that would be a Kenner track. Yeah, I know from just in Montana, I liked my underarmored boots as far as the weight because they're really light. But the ankle support on them was terrible. So like if this stuff is as steep as it sounds like it's going to be, that's where I'm glad I have my Kenner tracks is because those do have a lot of ankle support. You know, you don't have to worry about when you're side-hilling, rolling your ankles and stuff. And that's it. I mean, and that is the predominant issue is the side-hilling or going straight uphill. You know, and so you want a good boot, a good boot that's got good ankle support. You want a good boot that has a good pattern that you're going to be able to sink into the ground and not slipping and sliding everywhere. You do not want boots that are sliding around. You know, any of the boots that you get, I would suggest to someone, get them a month before you go and get them. And start wearing them, start going to the gym with them on and walk up and down a treadmill. If that's what you have, or if you have a hill outside or something where you can actually do something similar, I would suggest doing it because. And now there are some little tricks that I've done before. That is people that I know have been afraid of getting blisters will duct tape their feet. Meaning just put duct tape like where you think that it could come. And it will prevent you from getting a, so just slipping duct tape directly on your skin and put it on there. The other one is flipping a sock, one sock inside out. So you have one sock the correct way and one sock the other way. What that does is give the boot something to grip to. And so then for you, you don't get any sliding in it. And I've done that. I've done the duct tape before too. When I had there's been times when. This is if your boots too big for you. No, it's just a break in it. Yeah, break it in or if in my case, there have been times when certain people have taken my boots and I ended up wearing someone else's boots. They were close in size, but they weren't exactly the same size. So they know what this is. This is towards you. Yeah, you're the same size foot too. No, I don't. You guys wear tens. What are you wearing? Elevens, baby. Well, this was years ago. I don't know who did it or where, but I know that the boots I was wearing were not mine. And because they were the wrong size. Well, I don't have hiking boots so that we so we can't blame me for that one. There you go. So boots would be number one. Number two is packs. Packs are like second only to boots because you're going to have a pack on. Depending on the hunt, but on on my Western hunts, I have a pack on almost as often as I have a code on. Once you put that pack on, it stays on. It's carrying lunch. It's carrying extra everything. It's carrying, which is way less than what it used to be. You know, used to we didn't have all these meal replacement deals where you can eat a bar and it has all these nutrients in it. There's way better ways of carrying water now and things like that or hydration systems and. What do you think of a camel back though? I'm not a big fan of camelbacks, but I've seen that twice though now where they've the camel back to. Yeah, they get a hole in them and then all of your stuff in your pack is soaked. And that but that's that's not why I'm not a fan. I don't drink much water. I'm probably the one of the world's worst people to be asking them when it comes to water because. If my PB and J gets wet now, be lit. No, I wonder how much worse would be if it got soaked in elk urine. No, that would be really bad. It doesn't even have to get soaked in it. It just has to be near it enough to permeate the jelly. Yeah, I feel like you have experience with that one. Yeah, that's a permeated jelly. Yeah, that's nasty. I'd love to show you guys a sandwich like that just one time, just so you could just see if you could choke it down for four. Why would I do that? I can see I can see the texture of it with like a yellow layer. There was nothing you couldn't see anything. It was just eat it, but you it was either that or go home. And at the time, I did want to go home. So I ate that elk urine and liked it. OK, so we'll get back to trying to shoot a squirrel or friggin rabbit or something. I'm I'm with Warren on that. All right. So when do you mean by packs? So I know why you want a good pack. But what are you looking for? You're looking for a good frame pack. You're looking for a small pack. You want two different packs. What do you I've done both and it just depends on how you're going to be hunting, where you're going to be at, whether you, you know, can you go back to like a spike camp? Can you go back there? Because frame packs are definitely a necessity if but for a long time, yeah, if you got to pack something out. However, for a long time, I didn't use a frame pack. I had a I'm trying to. Black's Creek, Black's Creek. I think it was before it became tensing and the Black's Creek pack did not have an internal frame or anything like that. But it was so comfortable that I could put a quarter of an elk in it and be OK. I mean, it would hold it. You know, but the last thing I would tell a lot of people to the things that I did by overpacking a pack would be detrimental to you in the long run. You run it into shoulder issues and knee issues and things like that. Try not to be taking, especially when you got two or three people. There's no reason to be the I am king. I carry more weight than everybody just a good pack makes a huge difference. So too, you do have a decent amount of weight on your back as far as comfort. Huge difference, because like if you can't get one that's snugged up to your back and stuff, you know, like it'll frickin drag you back and you won't realize it until you wear a nice one. Yeah. Yep. So, but so there's a couple different ways of going about that. You can have a I had one pack that unzipped, meaning the outside had a small like day pack. I could keep that other one was my meat packing pack. So I could take it to a certain point and then maybe if you're riding horses or something like that, you leave that pack on there or your frame pack on the horse. But then you have a day pack. So you just want to understand what you're doing, you know, and make sure that you don't put yourself in a situation where you don't have everything you need. Because that is it when people go out West, you have to understand that the whole rule that like I guess when I hunt the Midwest or I hunt the South or East, if I just walk out, if I just pick a direction, if I was completely lost, I could find my way out by walking one direction. I'm going to hit a road, maybe not so much in the swamp or I mean, there's places in Texas that are big enough, I guess and things like that. But typically I'm not too worried about dying before I get out. But out West, it's a fact, you know, you may not be able to find your way out soon enough. And there are things that you have to worry about. There are grizzly bears or wolves, there are other things out there. So making sure you got things to build a fire, you know, whether you need it or not. And all that stuff is preparation that you're hoping you don't ever have to have. So I carry a small first aid kit, you know, that I made my own, I didn't buy one, but they make them now where they're inexpensive and they make them light. That was my whole thing. I built mine from the fire department. I had gauze bandages and a couple other ace bandages and things like that that I would place in there. But it is, you definitely want to make sure that you have some way of starting a fire in a backup system. Meaning if you have a lighter, you want something other than the lighter. A little candle can be really good because it'll stay lit, that kind of thing. Yep. So, but if you're down by the swabs, you got to make sure you got a toothbrush. Yes, you don't have to deal with all the grumpy alligators. Yeah, in case you're in doing alligator. That's referring to the water boy. Yeah, that's going to be that. I mean, to me, it's like a dad joke. That was horrible. No, that was on the out of the lures joke. It's that is that is worse than a dad joke. No, how he says it was different. It wasn't a joke. When I have crest in the toothbrush, an alligator doesn't attack me and it attacks you. We'll see who's laughing. Adam Sandler delivered it well. You did not deliver it well. I'm just I'm just relaying what he said. Anyway, OK, so so one way is, like I said, a two type pack, one piece zips off or you have separate pack. The other one is just you have a pack that will carry a quarter and that is your day pack. That's what you're and that's honestly how I rolled for many, many years that because then I would have three game bags in there and have a knife for doing all my and I have a sharpener because I'm horrible at sharpening knives. So it would always take more. I would have the first aid pack. I'd have water. I'd have some food. You didn't. I don't carry all my food. You know, I carry enough for a day or 24 hours or whatever. And then like if there's extra clothing needed and things like that. So did he say how we're getting these bears out, like quartering them or gutting them or? I didn't know. Huh, because I'm sure you're quartering them. Yeah, I was never quarter to bear, but he has horses and so I would think either way, we'll either be close to a horse or close to an ATV or a UTV. Yeah, but either way. Yeah, we're going to do something. I would imagine you cape it and then. Yeah. And then quarter it and carry quarters to the horse, which so I would think that half a mile would probably be a long pack, you know, but it could be steep straight up and down, straight up and down. Just you won't be able to take a horse to wherever. If it's the country I've seen when it comes to Idaho, it's steep. Yeah, I'd be more worried about where it falls dead. Not about where you shoot it. You got horses will go rope to those suckers. That's fair. You're like a Reggie. They have a ball right out. Yeah, I would hope that they don't have Reggie's up there. So so there's multiple ways to go. And then like I said, you can go with an internal frame or not frame back. I mean, in my opinion, something like you're doing, I wouldn't worry so much about an internal frame because you're not going that far. You know, you could get away without it. So excuse me. And then the third thing that I would say and I will, I mean, is optics. You're going to live in your optics. When you go out West, you just don't realize it's nowhere comparable to how much you spend looking through binoculars to when you hunt the West, Midwest and back East. You just don't look through binoculars or a spotting scope like you do when you're on a Western hunt. You're in them all the time. And so you want something that is affordable for sure, but you really want something that is good on your eyes. Quality because quality is going to keep you from wearing your eyes out. And you want something that's somewhat lightweight, you know, or that you're willing to pack. A lot of these are like, would you suggest carrying a spotting scope? It depends on the hunt. I would tell you that I not necessarily this one, I wouldn't even I wouldn't think so. Well, it depended like if this was your fifth bear hunt, you know, and you're like, I want to Pope and young bear. You better take a spotting school so you can see in your case. I think you guys are like, if it's a legal bear and if we get a chance of going after one, then we're going after it. Yeah. I'm hoping young bear is going to be really hard to judge though. You know, even with a spotting scope. Yeah, but when you're looking at a 250, 300 pound bear, you know, you're probably getting close. Yeah. You know, but my point is, I mean, you guys aren't going to shoot a cub or anything like that. But at the same time, you're just looking to make sure it's a huntable bear. Yeah. So you could not, I mean, and that's what someone has to truly understand before you go watching all these other podcasts or watching TV shows and they're like, oh, I'm going on a Western hunt and I got to have this spotting scope. And what do you need a spotting scope? If you're willing to shoot any bull, you didn't need it. I mean, typically you can see that it's a bull through a pair of binoculars, you know, but if you're now, if you're wanting to kill a Pope and young or, you know, then you probably want to have a spotting scope, you know, so things like that, you have to ask yourself. So those are the three that I would say are an absolute must. What are you doing as far as a sling goes for your bow? Or do you just carry it, throw it over your shoulder or? No, it means. You strap it on your pack. The one I hate strapping. I know, but the one that I've always liked is the Primos one for particularly because they make one that goes over the cams. Yeah. And it covers the string. So if you're putting your bow on the, on a horse, it's not rubbing on anything. And then when you, a lot of the packs now allow you to anchor your bow to the pack. Yeah. So again, when you ring, run a strap over it, you're not strapping over just the bear string where something could wear because you'd be surprised when you start dealing with horses, especially our UTVs and something vibrating, you know, you want to be really careful. The other thing, ask your outfit. Don't put your string on something like on a TV or a horse that's going to wear on it. Where? Because you could probably wear through that string before the trip is over. Absolutely. Or even before you get a shot. Yeah. So, and so the other question would be to ask an outfit or will I be able to take my case? Maybe you want to take two cases. Maybe we want to take a hard case and a soft case. Hard case would be if you're on an ATV type deal, you could put that hard case in and go wherever. If you're, I don't think you're going to put a hard case on a horse, even if you have your put a regular case on a horse. You might, but I would, I've done some horseback with and what I used was I put my bow on my pack and put my pack on. And then that's how I carried it. And that keeps it off the horse. Keep, and then I'd have to worry about it. The only way I have to worry about is the horse bucks me off. Then I try to flip around. So you try to make sure you land on your face. Absolutely. So, and a lot more of my experience actually came from bikes. Yeah. You know, and, and, but I can refer a bike very similar to a horse. Yeah. I feel a lot less like would be harder to pack than a horse. Yeah. Well, I'm looking at that and I'm, but at the same time, like even just walking in, like there's, there's times in Iowa where I'm walking into a stand that's might be a mile walk. Right. I mean, you have done them together. And when it's that long of a walk, it's like, okay, you might as well just strap your bow to the back, your backpack. No need to carry it. But I can't get myself to do it because you never know when you're going to have one of these crazy times where you walk up and there's a deer at 40 yards and you have a chance to sneak up on it. And I have the same paranoia of when I'm hiking in the mountains. That's something's going to hit the fan and you ain't going to be able to get your bow off there quick enough. I don't think they're having an easy sling. I think it'll be a little different when you're on a horse, you know, like you're no matter what, it's going to take you a little bit. On a horse. On a horse. I'm putting it on the backpack. I'm talking about when I'm hiking up and down and stuff. I don't use a sling though. Just carry it. Yeah, I was carrying mine like with my stabilizer up because my stabilizer like rests right on my forearm. Yeah. And I carried mine a lot too. I mean, you're going to run into both. But I think like the part you're talking about, don't be afraid to strap your bow on to go the 300 yards up the hill. Like you glass a bear and you see him from a distance away and then you bail off of a mountain. You know you're not running into one as you go down that hill and then or and so and have your hands helping you. You know, I'm almost I'm also wondering, should I like from I we run a back bar and stuff. You got a lot of extra weight. Take the back bar off. You I would tell I tell people in the midwest, you put as many stabilizers on there as you want. You start you go out west and we start doing a lot of miles. Yeah, you might want to think about your bow weight because it will make a difference when you're carrying it all day long and you're freaking horrible. Feel it, especially if you carry it like me. You know, the other thing that I would tell you too, that you want to be cautious of is I don't know from the pictures that he showed us. I feel like a lot of this looks kind of rocky. And one thing I learned when we were in Arizona with my release was if you put in there, yeah, and it's steep like that. Like you put your hand down to help you climb or whatever. And then my release wasn't working. And then what I realized is that magnetic part, there was little rocks that were magnetic and had gotten in my release. So here I was hiking around and my release was useless. So you got it. Yeah, like you got to being sure that you either don't put them up like you watch where you're putting your release. Yeah, if it's I don't know what kind of rock it was, I can't remember. But like there was all these little rocks on there and I had to use a like a toothpick or something to use a toothpick to get me through. And then I used an air compressor to blow them out. Huh, what are the chances of that? Pretty good, I think. Like I think if you were in Arizona, well, there maybe. Yeah, I don't know if that there was some kind of volcanic volcanic stuff that that's where it had come from. But it it things like that can happen that so you want to have spare everything. Yeah, you know, you want to spare release to take with you you want extra arrows. Most guys, I would tell you if you're going, you're taking a second bow, you may leave it in the truck, but it's you know, or the other one that I've often carried is a portable press so that I could actually fix something other than a cut string. I mean, unless you have a spare string with you. But you know, thinking of stuff like that to make sure that you're granted, it's only a week long, but it's a lot to make sure that you're thinking of, to be there and be successful in that week. Yep. So, but spare clothes, you know, you'll want additional clothes, but you don't want to take so many clothes that you can't dress like you do for a Midwest Whitetail hunt either. Yeah. You know, you're in which I think that the hunt worth clothing that we just got is there's enough layers there that a guy can pick. Well, I've got plenty that I can actually connect what I want to connect with and stuff, but what I want to wear. Yeah. So what, so this is kind of a dual question on the bears that you were stocking. Were you really paying attention to their vision or more just to their nose? Because I know they can't see great. Right. And so mainly from what where I was hunting them, it was mainly nose. You know, I mean, there was like certain drainage, I would only go up it with a certain wind, because otherwise there was pointless and it played to be true. I mean, the only time I saw bears is when I was had them with the wind right. The couple times when I first started hunting them, and then I was like, well, I'll go all the way up and then I'll come back down and I'll wind will be in my face. I never saw a bear. I think I probably already alerted them that I was coming, you know. But like when you're, when you're, you see a bear and you're going to go on a stock for this bear, are you really, you know, like a deer or antelope or anything else? We're really concerned about what is their, their line of sight? How well can they see is what, what kind of terrain do we have between me and that bear or me and that deer to be able to block them with a bear? Are you really worrying that much about what their vision is until you get like probably, I don't know, 60, 70 yards? Yeah, I mean, I just feel like you can get away with a lot more than compared to an elk, a deer, a turkey, when it comes to a bear, you still got to pay attention. I mean, movement, all animals, they're going to pick up on movement. If they're not seeing the movement, then you're probably okay, meaning bears feeding your move up. What I found was you got to be really careful with noise, because that will give them, that'll tip them off and then they turn and then they're looking and they're like, I don't know what I heard, but I heard something like you step on a pinecone and it's something that at 35, 40 yards, you know, he's like, what was that? And then they turn around and then, you know, they don't see what they're looking for, that might cause them to just keep going and amble on. Another good little trick though is stalk into a certain position and let them walk into you. You know, if you can get that situation where they're walking a trail or something like that and you can get out in front of them and let them walk into you. Especially those berries or something like that. Absolutely. But I made a huge mistake on a bear on a really big bear in that scenario where I was walking a trail. When was right, everything was right. Here comes this bear down the trail. I see him. He actually stops and starts rubbing his back on like a, like a big fat man, rubbing, you know, he can't get his arms back there to scratch himself. So he's scratching and it's like when he gets done, he's going to come keep coming down this trail. He was walking toward me and I stepped off the trail about 10 yards and I'm like, it's really thick. I got him. This is like a no-brainer. I'm standing there. I can see him still scratching. He's about 60 yards away and then I see him get down on all fours and start walking and I was like, all right, I got him. Well, I made one more move. I backed up a little bit more and knelt down onto my knees and when I knelt down, I couldn't see him coming anymore. So I had and then the opening that I had was about maybe 10 feet wide. And so when he got to that opening, that's when I had to draw because that was the only place that I knew he was there. And he said 10 yards. He's about 15, 12, 15 yards, not 20. And right as I see his head pop into there, I try to come to full draw. He immediately sees something and doesn't like it up the freaking hill. So they do see, he caught something there. My mistake, the major mistake there was kneeling down. Had I stayed standing up, I don't think that bear, I would have been able to see his back and I would have known when I could draw because I could see him coming and I could have drawn 15, 20 seconds before he got there. And I just was thinking I need to hide more. I need to hide more because I'm so close. And I hid so much, I took myself right out of the situation. How big was that bear? That bear was probably a 350 pound chocolate bear. I mean, it was big, big. Yeah, it was pretty big bear. Yeah, he was really big. The only thing that I remember telling whaling was, I don't think you could put his head in a five gallon bucket. And he had a big old dog. That had been pretty epic to shoot him in 12 yards, 12 yards on the ground like that, especially all the times we had traveled up and down that drainage and not killed a bear. And finally to have gotten, not just gotten one, but got a good one. And an off color. What is your opinion, not opinion really, but preference, hunting over bait or spotting and stalking. You haven't done bears with the dogs, have you? No, never with dogs, but how do they hunt them mostly back east? The dogs are bait. No, most of them. Or they're just like in a deer standing one comes by. You know, there's a lot of drives for bears back east too, don't they? I don't know of anyone. Some of them use dogs, I think. They could be driving deer and a bear comes through, you know. I think they do some bear drives. Huh, I haven't. I think somebody was telling us about that at the Great American Outdoor Show. Maybe not though. I don't know. But so there's the 50 plus year old David that's going to answer that question. And there's the 25 year old David that's going to answer that question. The 25 year old David would tell you, spotting and stalking is like, that's the, that's it man. This is the shit. You're like, you and him one on one on the ground, he can eat you, you know, you're hoping you're going to eat him. And so there was like, I, even though my, my success ratio was horrible for it, because I wasn't seeing bears that it wasn't like I was blowing stocks left and right. I just, I might walk five days and in five days I might see one bear. Yeah. Then I found Canada where they baited bears. And when you get to see average of five, 10 bears a night come in and they're all 20 yards away and they're not paying that much attention to you. There's still some things, some of the bigger bears that we started learning that they didn't come in and do what they do like the other ones did. You know, they had figured things out. And so the 50 year old me would say, I'm going to Canada and sit on a bait. The 25 year old me would say, no, you got it, it's going to be everything you want in a hunt. It's going to be that much fun. And like the things you see, because of the time of year, you're going to see a lot elk, because they're down low, you know, probably in that area. I found sheds when I was bear hunting. I mean, there was, and there was a lot more that you had to do when you go hunt a baited situation, you basically go hunt the bait. If you're the one baiting them, all the preparation and work is what's done prior to. So being able to go and sit, it's easier, you know, without a doubt, where when it comes to spotting and stalking, physically, you got to be, you know, prepared mentally, you got to be prepared, you know, that it's like, because when you do see one, chances of him seeing him at two or 300 yards, and it's an easy walk around the corner, and it ain't going to be the case, you're going to, you know, and then the biggest, I would say, on X will play like a huge factor in your hunt, because you're able now to locate something and kind of know exactly where he is by being able to look at it on your map. Well, you could see the topographic side. Absolutely. What the steepness is where before, you know, once you looked across the mountain, okay, there's a big boulder there, and there's a rock there, and a rock there, when I get to where I can see that, I should be able to see the bear, or I should be able to see, you know, that was how you had to do it. You didn't have any other choice. Like being able to use a rangefinder and say, okay, that's 1,000 yards across there. I very well might, like, select an area on X, or on my on X and download it. So it's offline. For sure. Because I don't know what the service is going to be like, but then I'm also not going to be sitting there. My phone dies or something, not that I give a crap about, you know, my phone out there. But if I have my phone to be able to like a GPS, that'd be really nice. So I might do that. We want offline maps. Yeah. For sure. So what else? What are some other questions? I feel like we've covered some pretty good topics, but I'm just interested on the difference of the hunt. I have an idea of how to do it. I'm just interested in the little things. Like we see a bear over there and what the screw ups are going to be, or what are the learning lessons going to be in our first couple of stocks. There's because there ain't no way you're going to have done one. There's one big one. And you'll find it out because you don't deal with it as much. Excuse me. It plays a role in the Midwest. It plays a role in the south and the west, I mean in the east, but it plays a huge role in the west. And that is thermals and wind. Wind rules on big game hunts out west. And what'll happen is you got a perfect wind on the ridge you're on, but when you get over to the ridge that you're going to, it's completely different. And understanding when the sun comes out, it's going to change the wind. When the clouds cover, it's going to change the wind. Understanding things that won't change the wind, such as if you're down close to a creek where the air is cool. A lot of times it'll pull that wind all the time. You'll be able to get away with things. And then the biggest one, I would tell someone that's going, like in the situation that you and Warren are going on, don't guide the guide. You got to trust these guys. They've been doing it a long time. And I would say that coming from both sides of it, I've been the guide. And then I've also been guided. And it's hard sometimes to not jump in and want to take over. But man, they've seen they know their area way better. They know what's going on. Trust them. Trust what they're telling you when they say you can get away with it. You know, you can go do this or go do that or whatever. Yeah, I'm interested too in the fact of he said that we'll be able to stock him obviously. But the game changer may be just having that call with you to be able to call him in having like a fawn and distress or he had set a cub in distress. I don't know how the heck to make a cub in distress. Might have to YouTube that one, but I'll kick you in the gut. But that would be really cool. No, we have one. Okay, he's 100 yards away. We're going to try to call him in now because we're that we got the right wind and everything the right setup. Yeah, because I'm definitely I'm definitely in the favor, I think, of maybe stocking them to the point of where they're going to have to come to me as opposed to stocking them to get the shot. Yeah, I think that's where my naturally I'm thinking is where I'm you got blade nose rolling. Yeah, I think I might have to about be done. It just started. I have no idea why interesting. Hopefully that's what a bear's gonna look like you're pretty soon. Blood coming out of his nose. I don't have a napkin to give you or anything like that. So here you go. Special number three. It's not dripping out. Some video I wouldn't even pick in my nose. Started bleeding nasty. Anyways, other than that, I mean, I don't know if we want to go into calibers or rifles and bow setups. You're going to take the same bow setup that you hunt white tails with. You know, and that's what we try and tell people the same thing when it comes to an elk. You know, you don't need to change everything. They're just a little bit bigger animal in a situation of a bear. It's not that much bigger of an animal. I mean, it might be 250, 300 pounds. You might find a 500 pounder. But I will tell you this that bears in general are kind of wimps. If you can make a good shot on a bear, they're going down quick. Yeah. And then you'll hear them hopefully. Hopefully you'll hear a death moan. I will say though, I am changing not. I'm just I'm changing it just to see how much I like it. But this one specifically, whether I was testing it or not, I would have put if I didn't have the option, I would have put a five pin on my bow. But I do have the option now that trophy rate just got me hooked up. Three pin. But I'm trying to three pin and I 100% would not have gone in this hunt specific. And maybe this is just stupid. I wouldn't have gone into this with a one pin because I'm in such a not knowing stage that I'm not going to shoot over 40 in the first place. So as long as I have a 40 yard pin sitting there, I'm good. I would not have put myself in the situation where I don't know. I don't I can't when I'm white tail hunting, I can control the situation as about as much as you can for having a wild animal. So I can understand shooting I like shooting a one pin because it's a controlled environment much more so than this where I'm not going to know. So that's one thing that I know that I changed for for sure that I'm. So you're not going to a 700 grain arrow either right? Absolutely not. I'll shoot my same. These things are butter balls. I'm shooting my exact same rodheads and same arrows as I would for a white tail. I guess the only one I switched my broadheads for is a turkey literally. What broadhead are you going to be shooting in? A three blade chisel tip rage. Rage. Yep. Yep. That's I don't know what. Go tip arrow. Yeah, I'm shooting the black label quantum's. I always mix up the quantum and label but black label quantum's yeah. Like 410 grain something like that. Gotcha. So it's not a super heavy arrow. They're zipping. That's for sure they're pretty quick but yeah I saw the pin gap on your three pin site and then yeah there ain't much of a gap. Well I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to see if I can replace those pins with smaller diameters because they're so freaking close that I can't decipher hardly. It's pretty much all one pin still. Yeah those are 19,000. Except for the bottom. Yeah the bottom one is 10,000 which I like a lot. You do. I can't believe that it sounds like such a minute or like a tiny tiny tiny difference when you get to those 10,000. It's clear as day. You can look at those pins and you're like yeah that one's a lot bigger than that one and it's only what? 9,000. You know something like that. Yeah. So it would be in half. It's roughly double the size. Right yeah yeah. Because 1 to be 0.1, 9 or 0.1, 0. So but anyhow I guess I was just sitting here trying to think of other things that someone listening that's looking at going out west for the first time might want to know. Water solutions you know you want to make sure that you can go with some type of filtration system and not pack water. You know and back when I used to do it a lot I don't even remember the name of it but I have a squeeze bottle that has a filter on it. You pull the whatever water out of a creak or stream and close that and then I would carry an empty Pepsi bottle and I would squeeze the water into that and then that's how I would then I would keep that bottle full the filter bottle and the Pepsi bottle and that's what I would hunt around with and then but you didn't have to when I was going in I'd get carry them empty. You know I didn't have to take anything but you want to make sure you either know the area well or you talk to your guide or something that you're going to be able to get water. Knives just make sure you got sharp knives and something to sharpen sharpen them especially when it comes to quarter in an animal and stuff like that. There's a lot of people that like those I believe it's outdoor edge is the one that I know of that makes the replaceable blades. I'm not a fan. I use it solely for the fact of being able to replace the blades. I don't like them at all. Granted I haven't used them in a situation like that but I skin and deer and stuff. I just like to have something that I don't have to go back in and grab my electric sharpener and sharpen. I just switch it for convenience sake. So what would you tell somebody that wants to go on a western hunt and they're from the Midwest or back east and they don't want to go with an outfitter and they don't have anybody to go with them that's from the west or been out there and spent time in the west because I know like our Iowa kids at camp like when you tell them you know you need to understand which way north is and all that stuff like it just doesn't resonate with them. You know like they really they're like I'm okay you know like there's nothing's that big of a deal I'm not going to get lost or if I am going to get lost you know like you said they just walk straight. Depends if your name is kids brown or not those Montana kids understand like they they understand like you can die for a lot easier than you think and so my question there guys I'm just thinking of somebody from the Midwest it's never spent any time out west going out there on their own and I'd be I'd be concerned for them like not trying to poke at them right but I'd be honestly concerned about them. Well I think the number one thing is learn how to read your read on X learn how to read a compass make sure that you have both learn learn you need to learn that you got a whole lot of homework to do prior to going. That's what I'm saying is what where do they go to do that or what do they do or would you tell them that you shouldn't go embark on this on your own to start with at least take a buddy with you or or what sources do they look at because like I it could be as simple as the weather you know people think the weather in the Midwest is bipolar no go sit on a mountain where it's 70 in the morning and then by the afternoon it's 20 wits eight inches of snow right yeah no it happens I mean I you know I think that I wouldn't tell someone not to do it because but don't bite off more than you can chew I would think on your first endeavor on something like that I'd be camping at the truck and hiking out every day seeing where I want to go learning that you know not going six miles in and not yeah not especially if you don't have someone or something to guide you meaning if you have someone you can lean on you know that says okay this is the place where you want to go to I've camped here this is there and gives you that kind of stuff if you're just going on your own I would recommend seriously at staying somewhere near the truck to start for your first trip and it because you can walk five or six miles out in a day and get back right you know it's not unheard of you know it it could depend on the train you know so where would you tell them to start getting information to do this YouTube or no I think I would start with the states you know looking at the the states and talking to them about where are some areas that and that that would be the first place in picking out where I wanted to go where I was trying to go and then I believe that I would start looking at people that have done it and whether that I hate to say YouTube but then again YouTube is there's good information but there's also some really bad information and I wish I knew how to tell someone decipher when someone's steering them way down the wrong path you know podcasts like this where we're just trying to help people get better at what they're doing so maybe start with some viable sources that you know first if you can yeah so a buddy that's gone out west or as a just or something an uncle anybody that you can first to at least validate it or something that you know that they've spent a significant amount of time doing those things yeah because it there you're the undertaking is not like anything like you've done in the Midwest or back you know when I say Midwest to the east I mean the undertaking of going on your first deer hunt is nowhere in comparison to backcountry western hunt for any for whatever species you're thinking of honey and and so then like I said the one I tell people that and I know it sounds crazy because you're not even in the mountains but a good way to kind of get acclimated to the west to see what it's like get a feeling for it like how far away gas stations are and stuff is going an antelope hunt go on something that is down you know not in the mountains and you can kind of get your feet wet that way oftentimes you meet someone you know at the local bar or restaurants or whatever I can't tell you how many landowners and things like that we've met with visiting with people you know when you mentioned gas stations I think on here that sounds stupid and but I think when you get out there and you experience that it's very clear what you're talking about and that means like the distance between a gas station is not here I remember when we moved Iowa it was weird to me that you don't go 20 miles without at least going through a small town that probably has a gas station you don't have to plan on where to get gas to the no you're good like you know I'll make it pretty much at any point in Iowa within a 20 mile radius there's a gas station if in the west that is not the case it could be a hundred miles when you go across 212 it's a what 150 or 200 miles almost well but now there's more now there are a couple gas stations along there where there didn't used to be but they aren't all open during normal hours either and like you can't there's no way to pay them they don't take the margin everything on the movies of next gas 200 miles yeah well the one that I would remember is from gray falls to hell no was 89 miles and there was not a gas station anywhere between the two on the interstate yeah you know oh I'll take that back home you know like right there close home is right next to gray falls right but I mean so you had about a 70 miles stretch there where there's no gas station yeah but the east side Montana's way more than that yeah it's worse yeah for sure so yeah there's so I mean so pay attention to your gas stations which I think you'd be able to gather that pretty quick on that drive out there that's our road trip tip or you yeah going on road trips watch for gas stations out west there you go yeah oh really is as soon as you get west of Iowa that's when I think it changes a lot you know even Nebraska Kansas it does you still carry like a small fold-up map with you I probably would not I mean I feel he's the worst person to ask though he he could drop him like upside down backwards spun 50,000 times and a sign you'll still get you out yeah he's got some weird some weird AI shit in it that he can freaking just warn us we're gonna go AI stuff right now he's very scared so if anybody else is very scared of AI message warning he'll talk to you all about it all day so no I'm just saying we need to prepare we need a lot more than big broad heads for this so I but I mean you know a lot of chop I ain't gonna do it the one thing that's nice I mean like I said you know a map is easy to get to or whatever if you want to keep your phone for but now you can carry a solar charger you know and and they last a long time so but it's more weight where you can throw a map in your pocket not worry about it and it is nothing you know and you can get topographical maps and I mean I feel like we're talking about stuff that people don't even know what I'm talking about anymore you know I just feel like if we're gonna go out there and we're not gonna have any service and you got a general idea of where stuff is at or he's gonna know where stuff is at why it besides if I could download my or like get the offline map for that area or that section I don't even I wouldn't even carry it I don't think because it's not gonna do me any good you better have a backup yeah I can tell you that right now what am I what's my phone gonna do me I'm telling you from personal experience when I got stuck on the mountain yeah I know but that's assuming you can call or do something oh but we had no service they had a GPS yeah the GPS that would be the only thing that would do any do you any good is having a GPS with a little SOS button well that's my point is what do you what's your phone doing you any good whether you can use it or not that's when you have your offline maps but you need it you need to back up to that to your phone so you should have a GPS and then you you might even need I would almost say that yes you should be taking a map I think you should be taking with a map with you actually I think we probably should just in case as well and kick because yeah if I was the yes though I'm sitting here thinking but if I you're you're assuming that I'll be able to use my phone at some point I'm just I'm solely saying that if there's I don't have the map on my phone I don't have any service I'm not what's the point let's all take a picture of a groundhog of a map no of the phone ding dong I'm I'm gonna take a map I'm gonna have peace peace paper I was saying that I would leave my phone this is a whole separate you're not comprehending what I'm telling you why you're not comprehending I am comprehending that's what I'm telling you is you want as many possible things that have GPS on it as you can so you want the offline on there you want the we should this would be a great time to learn the bushnell GPS is the back the back track back track yeah but the and the other one that I would everyone should carry when you're hunting out west I don't care where you're going what you're hunting or who you're going with make sure you have a compass yeah because it's gonna work and don't fight your compass I can't tell you how many times and I have been in that situation where it's snow and sideways and and there's when you hear people talk about those horror stories about that they're lost and they built a fire and they felt better I've been in that situation I've seen that happen and it and your life really changes when you can't figure out where you're at and I've looked at a compass and said there's no freaking way that that there's no way that's right and I went against my gut meaning I did not allow myself to override and I walked the way that it said and I hit the freaking road you know and then once you find a road life at least in my case was like okay it may be four or five miles to the truck but I'm on the road now I know where I'm at and then and you know and then understanding that in the worst case scenario sit down build a fire and wait it out you know and don't panic the moment that you panic it's all over I mean you're gonna and just hold on because if you got a fire going life's gonna be all right it might be tough yep well that that's what happened and that's what you don't realize either is it's so big out there when we were in that situation with um on the mountains during an elk season that time uh one person in our party wanted to keep walking when the GPS died you're like we need to go this way and I'm like no and none of us knew where we were which way and I was like no we're not going anywhere if we can't get this thing to to start get the batteries and get it to start back up we're just it's gonna really suck but we're gonna sit here overnight and and if we'd have kept going the way that we were going wrong way we weren't off that far right but we'd ended up in another basin that would have taken us five miles away from where we needed to be we'd have been nowhere near where we were supposed to be and thank god the batteries from Mike the wireless mic worked and was able to turn on and we were like oh shit we were off interesting yeah so but at the same time all of that is the ocrap factor the the cool thing is is the experience of going out west I would tell everyone they need to do it um the things you'll see the things the sights the the smells the it's just so different and it's so vast and it's something it makes you feel very small but it makes you very feel very small in a good way it's like this is cool there's a lot of countries still out here without a building on it without a apartment complex there's no one shooting at anyone there's no sirens there's nothing out there yeah and there's something to be said for that you know and being and being able to wake up in the morning and hear nothing you know it's pretty dang cool heck yeah so it's worth it and I think where I haven't personally hunted the per se the area you guys are going to but I hunted some areas very similar to um and I think you guys are gonna have a heck of a hunt it should be a lot of fun yeah I'm excited we'll have to do a podcast about the there's no after you go the adventures anything else I'm just trying to think that we're gonna get a question from someone immediately says why didn't you guys talk about this that's great we can do it on the next one okay I know I'm gonna have more all right well and I'm sure that I'll be posting some stories or something of just some of the stuff I'm excited for this hunt this is gonna be uh way different like I wanted to do I don't I didn't have necessarily a drive to go sit over bait or something for a bear again but doing it like this where it's going to be a hard challenge and got to find it got to get close to it got to get on camera and camping out in the mountains and stuff that's like yeah I'm pumped this this genuinely will be my first unless you want to consider Wyoming for antelope this will be my first legit western hunt yeah and I wouldn't consider antelope there it's western it's just not a backpack it just is not a hard hunt depending on how you do it but yeah so I'm excited this should be fun all right well cool well guys gals we're gonna close up the raised hunting podcast and thank you guys once again please continue to send in your comments send in your topic ideas we'll take them we'll keep listing them out and see where we come out don't be upset if you send it in and we don't get to it for a month or two we try to do this stuff in a timely manner so but thank you guys for the reviews appreciate all of you guys thank you for all the ones that have already written in with topics that we've used we've loved hearing back from you guys you know saying hey I heard my name on the podcast so it's cool we really do appreciate you so this is the raised hunting podcast signing off thank you guys