Go From Novice To Expert: How To Navigate The REO Path Like A Pro w/ Howard Spencer

Welcome to Real Estate Uncensored, the place for actionable ideas to reach people online, build your personal brand, and get more clients. That is Greg McDant, the junior grandmaster of sales in the co-pilot seat. And that is Matt Johnson, agency owner, author of Microfemus and Certified Greg Grandler. Each week you're going to hear from some of the best coaches, leaders, brokers, top producing agents and social media experts all with one goal. Give you the sales and marketing tactics to up your game today. Okay, now let's jump back into the latest episode of Real Estate Uncensored. Hey everybody, welcome back. This is Real Estate Uncensored. We have an amazing guest, my dear good friend, Mr. Howard Spencer. Now he is an anomaly, ladies and gentlemen. You have to stick all the way to the end to understand where his lead source comes from, comes from someplace you do not expect it coming from. I guarantee you both, blue, both, Nick and I away when we first started. But speaking of Nick, the most amazing human being on gas-rearing earth, what's up, Mr. Nick Sackas? What's up buddy? I've been kind of quiet. Like, I feel like we've missed a week, because we had fourth of July, and then so it feels like it's been, I don't know, like two or three weeks since we've actually been live. It's, it's refreshing. I know, we missed you. We missed you. And we are talking about all our wonderful listeners and followers. But everyone who's listened to my voice, you've heard me and Nick talk a million times. You got Mr. Lead Max over here, Nick Sackas, which by the way, guys, I'm launching a new campaign with him right now on Lead Max. This shit is fucking fire. It is three clicks to Facebook heaven. Yeah, we shouldn't sing. But it is an amazing stuff. But Howard, welcome to the show. He doesn't use anything conventional. He uses something very unconventional. But first, Howard, welcome to the show. Thanks. Thanks for having us. Dude, is there a plural? Is there a second you here? Sorry. When I say us, like usually, I'm so used to working in REO, and I have another agent who helps me all the time. So I always say us. Like, but it's just being here. It's just my dog isn't even here. Well, you know what? Yeah, I've been, you know, I've been following you for, I don't even know how many years, but I don't know if you remember years ago, we had a coaching call. Yeah. Yeah. How long ago was that? You 100%. It was, I did those calls for two and a half years straight. And that stopped. Six plus years ago. Easy. Six, seven years ago. I think it stopped. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's insane. And you, you've taken in cringes ran a whole new direction with it. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about kind of your business, how you're growing your business and kind of what your numbers are looking like this year. And that's going to get us into the meat of this conversation. All right. Well, start back in the back of the day. I was born and raised in Hunter and County here in New Jersey. We're right outside of Flemington. I went to Temple University. I have a film. I have a degree in film and media arts. Wow. The day I graduated college, I went back to working with my dad building houses. So I built houses for 18 years before real estate. And I got to the point where I was like, you know, I, I don't want to, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to build houses. And I kind of going back before I was even born. I was kind of born into real estate. My grandfather helped Jim Weikert get Weikert off the ground in the 70s and 80s. And a lot of agents in New Jersey got their license at the Weikert School of Real Estate. My grandfather wrote that course. He started that school and wrote the first course for The Weikert School of Real Estate. That's true. He was an office manager. My grandmother was an office manager. My sister has her broker's license in three different states. Virginia Maryland and DC. And she got into real estate before I did. And it just like we've, my sister and I, we've kind of grown up in real estate. I mean, we used to go see my grandmother at the office all the time. You know, my aunt even has her license. I think at one point my mom had her license. So my dad has been a builder. And when I was younger, he used to buy, we used to buy at Sheriff's Sale. So I know, I know the foreclosure process. I know the sheriff process. And, you know, I know the flipping process, you know, since I was a kid. And, you know, I got my license at the Weikert School of Real Estate. And my teacher, she actually used to work with my grandfather. So she knew me. And I got into, I started with cobalt banker. I interviewed with a bunch of brokerages. And everybody thought I was going to go with Weikert since my grandfather. Obviously. Yeah, it was an obvious choice. It was like royalty over there. And my grandmother. And I was like, no, you know, I interviewed with them. And then I went with cobalt banker. And I just thought they provided more value. And I've been with them nine years now. And they, you know, pretty much any time I need something, they're always there to help. Training. And I have transferred offices. My mentor was in the Bedminster office, Michael Downer. And then he became manager of Short Hills. And went to Short Hills with him. And then he got moved to Warren, where I am now. And then he actually went to the union office. And then he retired from there. He's down in Naples, Florida, which we still chat, but. Yeah, so he's been my mentor since I started. And he was big into expires. So when I first came on, I was like, yeah, I want to do expires. And I kept calling him and calling him. And he finally, he's like, all right, you be at my office at 7 a.m. tomorrow morning. I was like, okay, so he has a four letter system. So he taught me the letters. He taught me how to do the spreadsheets. And then, you know, you can get. Get phone numbers, you know, back in the day we were using Vulkan 7. So, you know, I was just calling expires, calling expires. And this is back in, I got my license in. 2014. So it was like 2014, 2015. Back when there was a lot of expires. Like now, there's, there's no expires. Well, there's definitely not as more as many as there used to be. I mean, you're part of the assassins crew that we call every morning all day long. From all over the country together. And we, I mean, you, we've all talked about that. Expires, really, they were really hot. We've switched over to circle prospecting and doing like just pendings and just less. It just sold. So, since that dried up for us this, you know, today in today's day and age, you pivoted and you went hunting in a different pond for leads. And it's a scary pond. A lot of people were said of this pond. Why are you not scared? And what would you call this pond? Um, well, let's go back to expires. And then I got into Oreo. Back in six years ago is 2016. 2017. And with my construction background. A lot of it proved a lot of value to my bank clients because I could go out to a house and tell them, Hey, we need to fix this, this and this. Don't worry about it. I have a contractor that I can do it. You know, we can get it done cheaper and faster than their property preservation companies. And a lot better, honestly. And it grew from there. And there was actually a property in Flemington here that was assigned to me with a new client. And I went out there, looked at it, got an estimate from my contractor to do a full Renault. And it got approved. My contractor shows up. There's a pallet of shingles there and the kitchen has got it. And I was like, what's going on here? Talk to the asset manager. Another guy got approved to do the job. I was like, all right, fine. So that guy starts doing the job. And after a while, I just, I wasn't happy with the quality of work and the progress. So I called the guy up and I said, hey, can you come out here and, you know, just do a walk through with me. I got some questions. So we're walking through the house. And I was like, hey, what's this? What's this? What's this? What's this? And he had no answers. So we get upstairs to the bedroom. And I'm standing there in a bedroom. And I said to him, I said, would you buy this house? And he said, what do you mean? I said, would you buy this house with the work that was done to it? And he just stood there and looked at me and I said, you wouldn't even buy your own product. And I wrote an email to the asset manager explaining all the problems that I told him. I said, look, if you want to sell this at top dollar, this is what you got to do. If you don't want to use me, fine, go with somebody else. They sent that up the chain to the SVP, actually, at the time that guy was the COO. And he called me and he goes, hey, Bob wants you to come down to Texas and meet with him. Five star. I don't even know what five star is. So we went down there when I say we, me and Kyle, Kyle had started working for me at that time. And is this where you guys jump into the whole probase site, right? Because you kind of saw that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're still in RIO. And this is. Oh my God. It took off from there. And in 2019, we sold 112 houses in nine different counties across the state. It was almost almost $30 million in inventory. And I had six people in four different offices across the state helping me because. Good lord. Yeah, one guy is in Manalapin. He handled the whole east side of the state. Kyle's up in Warren County. So he was doing that area. He was doing 100 in and summer set and Mercer. But like, we just kept going along and they, they would call us portfolio manager. She called me one night at eight thirty like screaming. She's like, I got a problem in East Brunswick. Okay. We'll be there tomorrow. And they would just load properties onto us because. I held my contractors to a higher standard. Because we're not going in there and just doing a splash and dash on these RIO properties. Because a lot of days now, the, the hedge funds, the RIOs, they'll look at a property and they'll say, hey. We can sell this for a hundred. But if we put 50 into it, can we get 200? Can we get a return on our renovation? And if it's possible, they'll do it. I mean, I sold a $1.3 million horse farm. We put over $200,000 into it. And they don't want, they don't want flippers buying it. They want to make the profit because they're a hedge fund. They're here to get a return on their money. Yeah. So they would send me all over the state to fix problems. And, you know, I just. So how do you, I tell them to get involved. How do you get involved with the hedge fund? How do you get involved with that hedge fund? It just. I just got into RIO and then they, they found me online. So that's a lot of people are sitting around the right now looking for. Does that talk of a potential in other crash? And folks are starting to get back in the RIO RIO world right now. Yeah. You know, in mid 2023, how would people be able to go around and get in contact with these hedge funds? Because there's going to be hundreds of millions of billions of dollars to be made. I mean, how does an application even have a conversation with them? It's tough now. You don't want to do it. Leave it. It's tough to get in contact with these companies because like a lot of. A lot of asset companies have cut back. You know, once there was 10 asset managers. Now there's two. You know, they've cut back on agents. They've redistricted agents. Like we want one of our clients. There's only eight agents in the state. At one time, there was 80. They cut it down to eight because they want quality over quantity. And, you know, I've, you know, I've interviewed with different companies. And I've shown them, hey, you know, this is the standard that I have. We do professional photography, drone photography, 360 virtual tours, floor plans with room dimensions. And we make it look like a regular retail listing. Yeah. Because they want top dollar. You just go in there, take the pictures and it's dark and it's crooked. And it just, it looks like crap. You're not going to get the return on it, you know. And I think, you know, one of the, like Gary Vee says, one of the greatest marketing strategies is a four letter word. Care. All you have to do is care. And we care a lot about our products because I spoke at five star last year on the panel. And I told, a room of 300, 400 agents, I told them, I said, those photos that you take will live on the internet for infamy. Yeah. You know, and what happens if like just a regular retail person looks you up. And says, oh, you know, I want to see their past listings or what kind of work do they do? You know, do you have, do you have a good description on your listings? Do you have professional photography? You know, everything like that. So, let me ask you a question. Basically, this is a, what you're describing is like a listing presentation on steroids. So it's not going to mama and Mr. and Mrs. seller. It's going to Mr. and Mr. and Mrs. and Mrs. and Mrs. Corporation or hedge fund who control the purse string saying, hey, look, I am a viable agent. This is my level of work. Here's my portfolio, you know, so on and so forth. Provide, provide value to your clients. Okay. Yeah, I think so. So if I'm thinking, let me, let me chime in here from the marketing perspective, right? If I was a new agent, I want to get an REO world besides just knocking on doors of like, hey, you know, Howard saying it's not worth your time because he wants to hold it off himself. Creating case study. So if you can create a case study. So even if you've never done an REO before, you take one of your, like, so Howard said some really, it's a thing that was really insightful. These people want to make money. That's all it comes down to. The REO, these banks, how do we make more of a return? So if you can create case studies around your listing procedure, like he said, what are the fundamental things that you do differently? How do you extract more value art? Do you have any current examples of regular listings that went for overmarket value in your area that you can create a case study and say, if you provided me with these tools, I can connect with these contractors. We can do the same thing in the REO world. Here's my case study. That way you have something to present instead of just trying to knock on small banks and say, hey, I can do REOs too. I got a couple of contractor buddies that I know have a case study. You're going to have a whole portfolio like Howard of 25, 30, 100 properties. If you have one or two properties that you've partnered with a contractor and put some grand countertops and paint and got more of it, like do something like that. How would you recommend something like that? I mean, putting together a case study, is that a wise move in your opinion? I mean, to get into REO, it's tough because people think you've got to have something to show for what you can do, right? Yeah, definitely. Even now, I'll send... I try to do a lot of video on my listings and I'll post them on LinkedIn and I'll send them to the SVP or the asset manager and say, hey, this is one of your properties, just so they see it. I know some of the COOs and the CEOs and everything, they follow me. They follow me on Instagram. I always am conscious about what I say, what I show, what I do, because they might look at it and go, and I had a COO, she texted me one day and she goes, that house you were just in. She saw my Instagram story. She goes, that house you were just in. Aren't you afraid of somebody going to break in there? It was one of her properties. But all the photos are on Zillow. Everybody can see. I don't have a huge following on Instagram. It's like 1100 followers. It's not like I got a million followers. I don't ask that managers. Everybody's going to see it. She was like, oh, yeah, good point. There are some things that I don't show. But your document and the other thing you said too is, so you said, care about what you do. Obviously, you want to have some level of efficacy and just actually care about what you do. So that's cool. But then you said product. And I think that's one thing that a lot of agents don't do with their listings is they don't view them as products. And they don't market them as their products, as their store. So if you were selling shoes or a car or whatever, that's your product, your listing is your product, you should market it as such. And it sounds like you do that very well. And so when I say like a case study, that would be your listing product. How are you taking this house and maximizing the marketing of this product in order to get in front of the right people? Instead of getting in front of buyers, now you're trying to get in front of an asset manager or somebody that you can prove your worth to to get into this world, right? Because all it takes is one handshake. You make one partnership with one bank or one asset manager and then all of a sudden you can snowball into other relationships, right? Yeah, I mean, I have talked to asset managers over LinkedIn. And I said, hey, we work with AP and C. You know, this is, you can look on YouTube. This is some of the videos I've done. I put together a video on bomb bomb, kind of like a resume. And I have one for retail and I have one for RIO. So when I connect with somebody I'll LinkedIn, I can send them my RIO video and say, hey, look, you know, this is the type of value we can provide to you. You know, we can do lock changes, trashouts, full renovations. After that is done, we can do, you know, drone photography, professional photography, you know, marketing like that, market it as a retail property. You know, I'm not just knocking on the door saying, hey, you got any properties I can sell? Yeah. No, that's not, you know, I just love it. So it's really a truly a business for you. It's not a hobby. It's not like I'm going to try to get into this. This is how you make your money and your practitioner at this craft. Because this is a muddy, muddy waterhole folks. I mean, if you don't know where to step, you might just step in a big pile. If you know what? And you're going to walk away with the bad, or the bad feeling about the whole system and program. And you hear Howard talk about this. And you're like, well, he makes it sound so freaking easy. Because he hasn't put in protocols in the play. Yeah. And it's, you know, there are times, you know, the bad side, the bad side of Oreo, like, I have to go knock on somebody's door and tell them that they don't own that house anymore. Yeah. I've had people screaming yell at me. I've had them chase me off the porch. You know, what about the fronting of cash of things that have to be cash for people? That's, oh, that's another thing. Well, the picture is that the check comes from the asset company. But, you know, like, I got to pay $6,000 water bill. Right. It's water and sewer bill. That's people don't know about that. Yeah. You know, you got to pay for the electric, the oil, the gas, you know, everything in water, the sewer. And then I got to pay the contractor to trash and place out. That's another five grand. Yeah. I got to pay, I got to pay a lot of float. There's a lot of float. For the one every two weeks. And then you got to submit this, you know, back to the company and hope you get reimbursed in the next 30 to 60 days. You know, at one point a couple of years ago, at one point, I was out almost $30,000 in invoices. Ooh. Yeah. Ooh. That hurts. Just hearing that. I do. I do have a system in place now that I don't. I don't put out that money. So. Yeah. Well, so when did. When did. So many questions here. One thing that really kind of people get into when they think about this, they're like, what should be a perfect niche? Because everybody wants a deal. And when people come to you as mainly invasives, they're like, yeah, finally, if our closure or, you know, bankruptcy or something like those lines in my response to them. And I'd love to hear your response to this. My response is, do you want a good deal? Or do you, or do you want to go try to buy something on the courthouse steps in a foreclosure? Because that's what the mainstream media has been telling you to do. And they're like, well, we want a good deal. And I said, okay. So if identified, it's not truly a foreclosure or bankruptcy or probate is purely a good deal. And agents in that I've come across, including myself at one point wanted to get in and do what you do. But I just don't have the cajones for it. You do, obviously, you're very good at it. But it's sexy to say, well, I can hold the keys to all the investors. Once I get this portfolio, I can sell all these properties to the investors. Well, two problems there. One, you have to become very well known to the banks to yet to find the investors. So how did you build both of those, those verticals of people to connect with? It's not, it's not what you think. Like everybody thinks it's back in like, you know, 2008, you know, where banks were just blowing properties out. Right. It's not like that anymore. Like I said, they'll analyze a property and say, hey, should we renovate this? Or should we sell it? And there, there is no backdoor deals. Everything gets put on the market. And they'll look at it. They'll say, hey, for the first seven days, we don't look at any offers. Seven to 21 days, owner occupants only. If we don't sell it to an owner occupant within the first 21 days, then it's open to investors. They want homeowners. Huh. Well, they want to maximize their dollar. They're not, they're not done. Right. They're not trying to, that's not compassion. If the homeowner is going to pay more money than a investor. Right. Yeah, too. But, you know, somebody might go in and buy it and say, hey, look, I can live here and upgrade the kitchen or upgrade the bathroom. You know, I'm kind of handy like that. Or, you know, they just say, hey, we're, we're really looking for a place in this. It's a little rough, but we'll clean it up. Right. Whereas an investor, he'll go in there, got the place and then flip it. And then those people who were able to afford it. Now, they can't afford it. Yep. So it's all about, you know, like affordability. That's really interesting. And they're still getting fair market value. But that's, it's actually really refreshing actually to hear this hard because I honestly thought that it was still back in the wild, wild west days. But thank God goodness they've been able to streamline it and probably have done for a long period of time. And I've been afraid of how what the experience was last time. So it's not as doom and gloom in this big hairy monster that hides in the closet anymore. It's something that's very easy to access if you have the wherewithal, the capital, the fluid, all these different finances. And if you're willing to take a beating, you know, mentally and sometimes verbally from angry folks. This is a very viable option for folks who just are good to roll and they just don't care. They just want to make money and this is something that can be good at. You would encourage them to get into the game. Yeah. I mean, you could. Wow. It's hard because there's so many agents. Right. Yeah. You said there's eight agents in your county, right? Or your state? No, no, no. Well, for this one client, there's only eight of us in the state. Right. Eight in the state. There was so many of us back in 2018 and 2019. March of 2020, the tap got shut off. Right. There was no more share of sales. Nothing was going back to the bank. And luckily, I had enough inventory to carry me through 2020 and 2021. You know, between renovations and evictions and. I think once in a while, we got a property. But even now. I mean, we were getting. Probably 10 properties a month. Now, I don't even think I've gotten 10 properties so far this year. Yeah. Wow. But you apply the same. Idea behind your regular real estate business of just inherently. So. Howard is more valuable to an asset manager. Then say Greg McDaniel because he has all. Let's pause for a second. He has the wherewithal to take a property and go from here to here. And get that asset manager proven extra value of $50,000. Because of his. Knowledge of building because of his knowledge of renovation, because of his connections with contractors, he has inherently made himself more valuable. Not that Greg doesn't have connections. I'm just giving an example. Calm down. I see some steam coming out of your ears. If you're a regular agent, forget the REO side of things. Make yourself inherently more valuable with your offer. And what you actually provide to the consumer. So I know Greg has some great programs. Other agents listed the show have some great programs. But if you're just an agent taking a cell phone picture and trying to get 6% of a commission. Those days are gone, right? And whether it's an asset manager trying to get in front of. Or a regular listing. Or your neighborhood or whatever like. Add more value. Add more to your product that's going out there. And you're going to win. Whether you're in this small group of eight people that are dealing with asset managers. Or in a niche luxury market of a golf course community, right? Like treat your business as such. Just provide more value. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And years ago. It's probably probably like eight years ago. I went up. There was an agent up in Westchester, New York. Shout out to Aaron Wittenstein. I do not say which one. What? I was going to say which one. I drove an hour and a half up to Westchester, New York. To see him. He was at Keller Williams. Make. Expired calls. And he was sitting there. And I just sat there and watched him. For like an hour and a half. Make. Expired calls. Because I wanted to get better at that. And afterwards we talked. And he was like, Look. What are you trying to do? I was like, Well, you know, I'm doing expires and. I want to do like the pre foreclosures and everything. He's like, No, no, no, no, pick one thing. Pick one thing and be really good at it. And once you master that one thing. then try to find something else to add on to that. And he actually gave me his copy of the one by Gary Keller. And I cannot find it. And I'm really upset about it because Aaron gave it to me. So. Signed copy from Aaron. Yeah. Nice. So when when RIO dried up, you know, we had to try to find other things. So I went back to pre foreclosures because once the moratoriums were lifted, all the paperwork started rolling again for the pre foreclosures. So, you know, in Hunterden County, Hunterden County is the only county in New Jersey that the land records aren't online. So I have to physically go down to the Hall of Records in Flemington, which is only like 10 minutes down the road. Sit at the computer, bring them all up, write it all down, and they come home and do my work on it. So I know the process of, you know, the pre foreclosure, you know, and I have a four letter system that I send out to the people, you know, then I start calling them. And I use colored envelopes. And it looks like a cart, right? That's nice. That's nice. I put I put fun stamps on them. You know, I got flower stamps. I go to the post office and a lady loves me. She's like, what do you want? I said, what do you got? And she pulls the whole book out of stamps. And I'm like, oh, I like these, these, and these. She's like, okay. So put a fun stamp on it. I put my home return address on it because if it goes out to a house and it can't be delivered, it comes back to me. Then I go out to the house more, more than likely, it's vacant. So we got to track the people down from there. You got to find them online. See if there's a forwarding address or anything. Then I put them back in the system, send them another letter to their new address. Eventually I start calling them, which I have to catch up on that. But yeah, that's, you know, pre foreclosures. And I could say this, you know, we close 11 properties this year. Six of them have been call calls. And I think four or five of them have been pre foreclosures. Nice. All right, let's take a quick break from the show. If you want to turn your real estate career into a lifestyle of freedom and passive income, then reach out to us. The best way to do it is to just text Greg at 925 915 1978. That's 925 915 1978. And he will take a call day or night. In fact, you can send him anything you want. Voice messages, pictures, whatever. Not kidding. Just text Greg and set up a time to chat about EXP because if you've heard about it and you're not sure whether you should pull the trigger and move over, we want to help you make that decision to be as supportive as we can and give you the information that you truly need to make the best decision about where you hang your license. So reach out to us and we'll talk to you soon. Okay. So let's pivot really quickly. Let's step into calls because I think a lot of folks are terrified of the phone of the phone these days. I mean, texting and some social media is pretty good at the phone rings. It's like the old comedian that would do the sketch on when you were younger. In someone knocked on the front door, everybody got up in the house. It was super exciting. All the lights went on and everyone had their Sunday best on. They're like, hi, come on in. Here's some cake. Here's some coffee. Listen and have a conversation. That was originally when phones were used to ring. Now it's lights off, shut up kids, lock them in a closet, all lights off, security on, guard dogs out. Don't let anybody know you're there. That's kind of with the mass public. All the cars in the driveway, all the cars in the driveway and you see the light shut off. Oh, sure. But it's not like that anymore. You know, you have, and I have to spend every day with you doing calls. You've mastered this unique script and this unique, I guess, I mindset when you do these calls. It doesn't sound hard. It does not sound forced. It sounds very natural in the conversations you have for from what I've heard. I've been very positive. Of course, you get to me who's everyone's in the wild, but that's just normal. Yeah, but Colleen is not that scary. Yeah, you know, there are some days that I do have call reluctance, but you know, we all do, you know, scripted on it, you know, everybody's like, look, we're making calls. And even like some time, like we were just earlier today, you know, some guys were making calls and I was just doing some paperwork and it's just being able to have the camaraderie. You know, everybody's like, we're making calls and then, you know, we jump on and we start making more calls. But like, in the beginning, yeah, you're going to be scared a little, you know, you're going to get kicked into teeth and people are not going to like you. But eventually, somebody's going to go, hey, yeah, you know what? Thanks for calling. You know, I need some help. And that's the thing with the pre-four closures is like, I called one in Pennsylvania, and I actually spoke to the guy's sister. She lives in Kentucky. And I left her a message, she called me back and she goes, is my brother in trouble? I said, yes, he is. He's on the sheriff's list. She's like, all right, what do we need to do? I said, well, we have two months till the sheriff's sale. I said, you know, we can get the property on the market. How much is he owe this much? Okay, I think we can sell it for this much. He'll have some equity. I think we should find him a rental. We'll pay the 12 months up front. He can get his life back together, get on his feet. She's like, all right, it sounds like a plan. I'll be there in two weeks. I'm going to help him pack up the house. You come over, take the pictures, list the property. We're good, right? Yeah, we're good. You know, some people like one property I sold two weeks ago, I've been talking to him since October. And I tracked him down from his old tenant, because he didn't even live in the property at the time. And I called him and he had moved back in, and he's like, well, what are my options? I said, you can sell it. If you have equity, you can short sell it if you don't. You know, you could do a loan mod or anything. He's like, I don't want to live here. Oh, okay. Okay. He's like, I can sell it. I said, yes, you can sell it. It's your house. He's like, I don't want to live here. Let's sell it. So eventually we got it listed and the day we accepted an offer is the day he got on the sheriff's list. No way. So you get two four-week extensions. So before closing, I had filed an extension for him, which we actually closed early, which was awesome. He walked away with $40,000 cash. Damn. All for debt-free. Just gone, right? Yeah. He paid off. He owed almost 10 grand to the HOA. He owed 4200 to the Water and Sewer Department. So he paid off the loan, paid off the water and sewer, paid off the HOA. You know, we had an attorney, you know, your transfer tax, your basic fees of a closing. And there was enough equity that he walked away with money. And he doesn't have a foreclosure on his record. He's 40. I think he's 44. It's my age. Okay. Yeah. He's a couple years older than me. So, you know, he was super happy. And my attorney is great. You know, she's on emails constantly. He was so happy when we closed. He's like, you know, everything went smoothly. It went exactly the way you said it was going to go. I know what I'm doing. I've done this before her. I feel like there's going to be a lot more of this coming up. Yeah. And I mean, everybody's got equity right now, right? So it's not. Well, no, no, no. Everybody thinks that Nick has no way that prices are up. Yeah. Some people like to use their houses in ATM machine and they keep pulling money out. Yeah. And you've seen this new credit, this new HELOC credit card that they're starting to advertise. I saw, I saw it add on Instagram. And I said, yeah, I was like, is this predatory lending? It's a new class. I forget the name of it. I've been seeing ads all over the place. It's like a few weeks, something like that. Yeah. It's like an approval. Just put in your address and your social get 50 grand immediately. Oh, this is a HELOC. This is a credit card. You can use the money whenever you want. Like, no, I, I had a HELOC one time and I got in trouble. Yeah. That is scary. Never, never again. Did we not learn from, you know, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, not to just purely just hand out money all willy-nilly, even though the federal government prince it literally at will. And it completely is food barring our economy right now. If anyone was listening to this in the future and after 2023, it is astonishing that they would even bring in to play a HELOC. We're like, fog mirror. Make sense, dude, because there's a lot of people sitting on a lot of equity. So there is perspective. If you don't know the dangers of a HELOC and you get a simple, easy to use credit card where you can click a couple buttons on website because you know you sit on equity and you know you can't move because you can't sell your house and there's no houses available. It's a perfect time for a product like that. Not for the consumer, for the business that started the product, right? Yeah. And what happens when you drain all your equity out of your house and then home prices go down next year. Right. Instantly more on their water. Yeah. And even, you know, even now with home prices being so inflated, you've got the people putting like VA, USDA, zero percent down or three and a half percent down. I'm seeing people on the pre foreclosure list that bought a house last year or the year before. Right. And they're already in foreclosure. And, you know, with commissions and everything else like that, you're under water instantly. Yeah. Well, speaking of lists, so we didn't even get into this yet. It's already 40, almost 40 minutes in. Yeah. And we had a great talk at the pre show about probate. So I want to know a little bit more about that. And what do you do? I got into probate. I guess, you know, like all the leads, I looked at them like years ago and then I saw a couple, they do like a weekly YouTube video. And I was like, you know, I could figure this out. So the surrogate computer is right next to the whole records computer. So I go down there, I pull the data and I have, you know, the the only ones that I pull are where the deceased has a different address than everybody else that are on the probate filing because chances are that's now a vacant house. I don't want to call somebody that their husband passed away or their wife passed away or even their child passed away. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to call those people. So I just call the people that I think the house is vacant. So you don't want to call, who don't you want to call? Say, say like you're, you know, all right, say, say my wife passed away. God forbid, knock on wood. No. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I wouldn't want to call me the husband who just lost his wife. Right. I'm so sorry to hear that and everything. He wants to tell you house. Right. I think you know, some people will, but that kind of so it's a probate absentee owner. Yes, let's call it that. Yeah. So we've had the owners powerful, right in itself. Yeah. Have you had a probate about absentee owners and, you know, hey, the market's up. Hey, how can I help you? And, you know, the script that I have for the probate is, you know, I know you lost the level and everything. I'm just calling to see, you know, I help in these situations. I'm just calling to see if we can work together. And people are like, well, you know, what can you do? Well, you know, I work with a local estate sale company. You know, I have local contractors in case we need to do some repairs or, you know, do some garbage removal, trash out, you know, and then we can get the house on the market. So case an example, there was a house up in Belvedere, the woman passed away. I called her son who was in Chicago. And I said, hey, you know, I left them a message. He called me back. I said, hey, you know, I'm sorry, but it was what we can do. He's like, all right, sounds good. From the time we list, we, from the time I called him to the time we closed, 64 days. So I called him and we went over to the house. We met, his mother had passed away and we met his uncle and he showed us the house. I call him up and said, okay, you know, here's the estimate to trash out the basement. You got to get the lawn mode, which the uncle was going to do. We'll do photos with everything in the house. That way, you know, it looks, it looks lived in. As we get it on the market, then we can clean the house out. I got him an estimate for that. And we sold it over asking and the buyer actually took everything in the house. So he didn't, he didn't have to remove anything. But the, the uncle and some other relatives, you know, went in and took what they wanted. But he was so happy. He's like, if you hadn't have called me, I don't even know if this property would be on the market right now. Yeah. He didn't have to come back to New Jersey. We did our attorney handled everything for him, mailed him the documents, everything she needed. She either emailed or mailed him. He was like, this was so great. Thank you so much. And I know in these times, like, I've talked to other people that were like, I don't know what to do. Like, just get me a key. I will take care of it. Yeah. You know, and it carries over from my construction and my Oreo experience, you know, we're dealing with a vacant property. We need to, you know, make sure that the heat is on. Make sure there's no water getting in. We need to trash it out. We need to get it on the market. We need to make sure the lawn is mowed. You know, it's just, it's all those processes. I like the strategic part of this though. Sorry, Greg. No, no, no, I feel I go ahead and I like. So if I, if I'm guess the first time I'm meeting you were talking to you, I know you do shows with Greg and you guys call the time, but like the very strategic part about what I'm hearing right now. So like you're in the Oreo world, you have strategic relationships with the key people to get your business from a high value perspective. Now on the probate side, you're not just loading up a triple line dialer and calling thousands of people every day. You're very strategic about what lists you're pulling and how you're contacting these people. And I think it's paying off, right? I think a lot of people, you know, when you when you think about real estate cold calling, it's always the first thought of triple line dialer pound, you know, go for no and all of that, but am I wrong to assume that you're probably not calling a thousand absentee probates a month. It's probably more like a hundred, right? No, I mean, I might, I might pull 30. Yeah, yeah, and whittle it down to 18. Right. And then I start calling those people very strategic. And sometimes I think a lot of people can learn from that. Yeah. And sometimes like I'll get the leads. I'll come home. That property is already listed. Right. You know, because you know, those the like say somebody passes away around here and the heirs live around here, they might know an agent. So, you know, it passed away. She's like, you know, they might say like, hey, you know, we need to get the sun market. What are my friends from high school? His aunt passed away and I'm helping him with the property. And I saw the name come up on the list. And I'm like, I know that guy. And I call them. We had a good conversation. I went over there and looked at it. He needed a CMA for the accountant. I got it to him right away. You know, now we're cleaning the house out and I'm hoping to take pictures this week. But he's like, I want to get this house sold. He's like, I don't want to see coming over here anymore. And that's the thing. Like people, there was one up in Philipsburg. I was calling a woman her sister passed away. So Philipsburg and Barnagot where she lives over two hour ride. So she's coming up here trying to clean the place out. And she's like, I don't want to list it. I just want a cash buyer. Okay. I said, can I can I bring a cash buyer? Can I meet you bring cash buyer with me? She's like, okay. So Colin, I went over there. Kyle's my cash buyer. And we walked through the house. We had a great conversation. We went outside. Colin, I talked about it. We made her an offer and she's like, I accept it. She's okay. And I told her, I said, whatever you want to leave in the house, just leave it. And there was like, you know, a dining room table and a couch and a bed and a dresser. I said, don't worry about it. I will take care of it. She's like, oh my god, that's so great. Thank you so much. I didn't know what I was going to do or how I was going to move it. So we closed early, closing like 10 days. She was so happy. She got what she want, the price she wanted. She didn't have to do any more work. She didn't have to travel up here anymore. And that's the other thing. Like, you know, it's not just about a paycheck for everybody. Everybody was like, I just want to get a house sale. You know, sometimes you got to do a little bit more work. And that's what comes down to this. We think that we can just get away with the minimal amount of work. Jonathan Hawkins put up a comment here that he called a widow and long story short, the lady was so upset and heartbroken. She lost her best friend and husband at 50 years that he tiered up to. And this business is not for the for the folks that are countless. This takes a lot of an emotional rollercoaster on the agent side because you're dealing with people going through some one of the hardest things that they can go through. Either a death or a loss of some sort, uh, financially or emotionally or personally. And you, you're there as a support system, not as a cash grab. And I've cried with clients. I know how you have Nick. You have it. It's horrible to see things, but you also see the joy on their faces because you've been able to be that vehicle to take away that pain or at least a small portion of that pain to let them, you know, start the healing process and move on in life. And whatever that means for them, but it is, it is taxing on your emotions because you care for these folks and you see yourself potentially in their shoes. You know, you care, you have to care. Yeah. But I mean, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't have Howard call me because I went through a bankruptcy in a foreclosure. I didn't have Howard call me in 2008, 2008, 2008, 2008, I lost my house, lost my, I lost two of my houses, lost two of my cars and my girlfriend at the time. And God, she left because she said I didn't make enough money for her. So fuck off. And I had predatory people call me not once. Did somebody call me and say, hey, man, I'm here to help you. Right? Bro, that sucks. Let's let's help him out of this. No one said that to me ever. You know, and I would have worked with them if someone had lend out, because I was so ashamed. I hid in my house. I couldn't afford a bud light. Dr. People drank bud lights. And, and, and, and, you know, it's amazing that different Howard, your voice is powerful because you, honestly, come across as, as Karen and that is you. But would you have answered the phone if somebody called? I was so gun shy, dude, I was afraid of anything because I had the, the sheriffs notice all of my front doors. I feel like an asshole. That's the thing. Like, if I could get everybody to answer the, just answer the phone and have a conversation with me. And I've emailed people and I've said, look, there's no obligation. Can we just have a conversation? Like, let's talk about this. Sometimes I tell people, yeah, actually, it was, it was a couple of weeks ago. I had to tell somebody, I'm like, I'm sorry, I can't help you. It's, it's too late. Yeah, that's hard. If I follow them and say, look, this is what I can do. Tell me your situation. They tell me the situation. I'm like, I'm sorry, it's, it's too late. But then I'll go into, I'll tell them, I say, look, this is what's going to happen after the sheriff's sale. You know, an agent's going to come to you. They're going to say, hey, I represent the bank currently on this property. Do you want to do cash or keys? The faster you move out, the more they'll pay you. They will start the eviction process immediately. Their house. Yeah. If you don't agree to cash or keys, you will be evicted. Now you got a foreclosure on your record. Now you got an eviction on your record. So if someone's terrified, like I was hiding in my house, afraid of my friends, afraid of the world, afraid of any knock on that front door, that phone that I didn't know what number that was, how many times do you follow up with folks until you're just like, okay, this person has obviously decided to go a different direction than life. When the sheriff's sale happens. That's when you just say, okay, well, I tried and you didn't want the all of the branch. I'm so sorry, but this is where it is. One of the things I did, I do now is we monitor the sheriff's sale lists. Kyle monitors the Warren County. I do the the Hunterden County in the summer set and actually Bucks County now too. And I've called people on the sheriff's sale list and say, hey, look, I can get your house sold at no cost to you. That's when you go into a short sale. My attorney that I work with, his fees are paid for by the bank. Our commissions are paid for by the bank. One of the last closings I had, I ended up paying $170 water bill because I told the woman it would be no cost to her and I just ate it. I don't know how many other agents would do that. And there are times, I'll pay even on my Oreo properties. I'll pay an electric bill or I'll have something fixed and not submit the invoice because I needed to get done. Are you an anomaly in your side of the industry that does that or is that common practice for folks that practice with your closures and privates? I don't know. I kind of just operate on my own island. You know, what other people do, you know, it doesn't really have an effect on me. If you're not providing value, it might have an effect on me. That makes me look better. I've, I've mailed the letter. There was a woman who passed away here in Hunterland County, her sister lives in Massachusetts. I couldn't find a phone number for her. I mailed her a letter. She got the letter sent it to her attorney down in Tampa who looked me up online and then called me. And she goes, Hey, this is so-and-so. I'm working with, you know, so-and-so, Massachusetts. I'm like, I recognize that name. You sent her a letter. I looked you up online and we like what we see. We like to work with you. I was like, great. I said, you're in Tampa. She's in Massachusetts. I'm centrally located. I'll take care of it all. But I didn't meet them at the house one day and you know, gave her a list of contractors to do inspections and get stuff repaired and everything. So that's a prime example of people are going to look you up online. Like, what do your listings look like? What is your, you know, presence online looks like, you know, like you want to know of Graham, YouTube, all that kind of stuff. You want to know something funny about that, Howard? I want to have a listing appointment. My good friend Monica refer to a friend of hers who I've actually known for a while through different friend connections. And she's like, Greg, so she and her sister met me at the property and walked through it and I'm like, well, do you get how do you guys know Monica referred me? So on a so forth, the seller looks and he goes, well, Greg, I kind of looked you up online. I'm like, oh boy, what did you see? And she's like, you know what? I watched a couple of you of your podcasts and I'm like, oh boy. And again, I liked what I saw. I'm like, oh, very cool. Here's the kicker. She's like, then I went to your Facebook and I saw your friends and I saw Monica who referred you. And then I saw my ex-ister-in-law who lives in Arizona and she follows you. And because she follows you, you know what? I think you're the right person for the job. I'm like, thank you, sister-in-law. Thank you. I need to send out a card to you and say thank you very much. But your online presence does matter quite a bit. Now, you and I joke around, we put out this crazy podcast and have a blast. I do other crazy stuff beers and calls so on and so forth. But at no point, Matt and I, who was one of the original co-hosts of the show, we made an agreement when we started the show. We will never talk about sex. We're never going to talk about religion and we're never going to do anything racial or demoralizing to any gender or any race or any sexual orientation. That's just not the way we roll. And that decision has saved her behind several times because this is a job. This is a vehicle to be more visible for your job. And folks are going to be looking at you, somewhat like you, somewhat, but do your darnness to stay away from certain subject matters that don't need to be brought into business. So you can be more reliable for folks who might not share every single point of view you have in life, but you're an expert and you're professional at the craft that you spend a lot of the time, you know, honing NKA, your job, your business. So, an online thing is just so more relevant than you can possibly imagine these days. We just think we put it onto the universe into the sink called the internet and his vanishes. Nick is a, Nick is a marketing expert. Nick, does it vanish from the internet when you put a photo or a comic? Vanish, you know, there's a, it's a blueprint. It never goes away. That goes back to the beginning of the conversation. When I spoke on the panel last year, I told a few, I said, those pictures will live on the internet forever. They are. They will. I actually got rid of some photos of myself when I used to do some camping. And I'm like, oh, Keith, and I didn't even know there were on my Facebook. Who knows how many people have seen them? I hope like I wrote of them. Yeah, but sometimes I look back at my Facebook memories and I'm like, wow, you were an angry person. Like, you wrote that? Like, now, you know, I have, I have a meter checked because like I said, there are people that follow me that, you know, are higher up on the chain in my clients. Like, I don't put out, you know, stuff like you said, the, the political or the sexual or the, you know, verbiage. I don't, I don't curse on my social media. Right. I'll, I have a picture in real life. Yes, I do. I'm a real person. You know, some of the conversations that I have, you don't want to hear, but still, you have to, you know, put that out there. And, you know, when I go to people's houses and I knock on the door, you know, that's a job that I have to do. Yeah. And like Kyle has told me, he's like, I can't, and he's been with me for six years. He's been with me at almost every house I do this at. You know, I knock on the door and I tell people and I hand him a letter and he tells me he's like, I just can't do it. He goes, I can watch you do it. He goes, I can't do it. You know, and I'm married. I have two kids. I have a heart. I'm a real person. This job, I have to do. Yep. And if it's not me, somebody else is going to do it. So Nick, you said there's a photo. You're talking about previous, one of my favorite photos I've ever created for you. Oh, I know which one you're going to listen to right here. Yeah. Old Matt Johnson, we made a people magazine cover from homeless to heartthrob with an old picture of Matt when he was a drummer. And then up in the top right or left hand corner, you got Greg McDaniel gets arrested again. Living in infamy and all of its glory. Oh my God. That was still one of the best things I've ever seen. Nick, we've got to start doing people cover magazines for our for our shows, but that is hilarious. We'll put that nickel post a link to that in our in our comments. You guys can take a look at it. Or I'll just post it on my Instagram and Facebook and stuff like that. Good is it is laughable. So let's do this Howard. There's a lot of stuff we can keep talking. Jonathan does want to go over one quick thing before we get out of here. He wanted to see what the verbiages and your letters. I think that might be a little too long for right now. So either we can answer that briefly now or you guys can connect on another line. I mean, on my pre-fort closure ones, I actually wrote the letters. And it's just saying like, hey, I can help you. Hey, you know, if it's a short sale, I can get this sold at no cost to you. You know, time is of the essence. Please give me a call. You know, sometimes people call most of the time they don't. I have to hunt them down. As far as the probate letters, I had chat GPT write them. Hey, I've had them write like vacant property letters. A bunch of different letters. I've had them write emails. You know, I have a chain of emails that I send out to people that are in foreclosure. Even like nowadays, like another thing that people can do real quick, just write down a road and you see a house and it looks run down. Write down the address. Look to people up. Hunt them down. If it's just sitting there, maybe they don't know anything about it or maybe it's an air or maybe they're like, hey, you know what? Finally, somebody reached out to me that could help me. Yeah, go ahead. Let's sell it. Is there an app for that where you can pay drivers to be like Uber drivers or bus drivers or you know, there's money. If there's like deal machine, there's pre-ill machine, prop stream, there's deal machine, all types of stuff. But, you know, as realtors, we're out there driving around all the time and my eye catches these. I just caught one this morning right next door to my REO property. Nobody's mowing alone at that house. You know, the bushes look kind of overgrown. You know, sometimes there's a house down the street here. I showed it to my wife the other day. I said, there's a house there. She's like, where? It's so overgrown. You can't even see the house anymore. But the guy, it doesn't have a mortgage and he's a veteran, so he doesn't pay taxes. It's like he doesn't exist. That's, well, it's good and bad. Okay, so it's funny that you mentioned that yesterday I was on a walk with my dog. I'm just so weird to go for walks with my dog. And I ran across the street this house that I've always looked at as a giant lot. It's on this really kind of remote, but yet kind of very central location. We're talking like fences around it. Like you wouldn't let your dog sleep in these dogs in these houses that are there. But this is they bought it for a million 50 in 2021. I'm like, well, shoot, they haven't done anything with it. I'm gonna call. I got some cash buyers that want to spend some money. Let's let's build something here. So obviously they're sitting there and that's the kind of stuff. But basically what you're saying is be vigilant and be aware of your surroundings. Look for opportunities wherever they may lie. Have your phone out guys. There's just a crazy thing on Google phones and iPhones that you take a photo of something you'll geolocate your position. In case you're just forget what street you're on, you'll geolocate it. If you know how to figure out that data out of the photos and then go in there and run some numbers, go to RPR, pull up some stats, go buy, drop them off something in a nice little branded piece of paper going, hey, look, I saw your house. I have investors. I've never thought about selling. They love the neighborhood. They specifically said they like your location on the street best. Never tell them their house looks a piece of shit and you think the wall's gonna cave in. That's probably the wrong approach. Yeah, but if you have a buyer, you know, I'll be the wrong approach. I have postcards in my in my car and in my truck. And if I see a house looks kind of abandoned, I'll stop, put a card now on one side. It says, sorry, we missed you. Great. And on the other side, it's, you know, just like a race regular postcard, this is please call me regarding your home. That's a really good idea, Howard. I love that. Yeah. And there's no address on it and they're blanks. So I just have a stack of them in my car. And if I knock on the door and nobody answers, I just stick it in the door. And I've had people call me. They're like, hey, you were at my house. I'm like, oh, yeah, which house was it? Oh, yeah, I was calling to see if you were interested in selling. You know, I noticed this. You know, I have, there was, it was two weeks ago, I got a call from the state police. Oh, but the trippery's like, hey, are you Howard Spencer? Yeah, what's up? He goes, oh, this is triple so and so from the kingwood barracks, which is right here where I live. And I'm like, I don't have any properties. I hope I'm not sure. He goes, hey, do you know so and so. I said, yeah, I said, he lives over on such as such a road. He's like, yeah, you've been trying to get a hold of him. I said, yeah, he's like, well, he called me and asked me to call you to tell you to stop calling him. Okay. I was like, you know, he could have called me and said, hey, Howard, knock it off. I've called him. I've emailed him. I've been to his house. I've mailed him letters. I've talked to his neighbor. I am relentless. And then like, you know, a lot of people are like, hey, I'm not interested. Okay, fine. There's hundreds of other houses out there. I could be trying to contact, you know, but this is, this is an abandoned house. Let's get it on the market. Let's sell it. We're five minutes outside of Flemington. This is, you know, a desirable area. Yeah. And now you did, I'll, in the cops said, he was a cop to his double checking. Like, hey, man, why are you really who you are? Did you search you out? Kind of sniff around and make sure you weren't like some, like, wholesale or poacher, but you were, I said, you know, I'm a licensed realtor with Cobal Banker. Yes. That was me trying to contact him. And he's like, okay, you have a good day. All right. He's like, I don't really want to call you, but yeah, I have to. I'm like, hey, I have a job to do. You have a job to do. I totally understand him. Cobal brother, it's cool. All right. Let's end there because there's a lot of stories you can go down, but we are creeping up on time. Or wow, we are already over time. I just love to talk. This is how fast good knowledge comes at you guys. It comes hard and fast, very, very full of wonderful tidbits and tricks and everything else. You guys saw me looking down at any point throughout this entire video. It's because I've been scribbling like a madman. You guys can see my scribbles here. Because a lot of these ideas that Howard's talking about is stuff that is so practical. If you don't want to get an RE or each probate or pre foreclosure, this is just applicable in any part of real estate. Just having a heart, caring, putting them first, being willing to put a little money out to help folks if they're in a hardship or a time of need, you know, being the person that your mom would be proud to say that that's my son, that's my daughter. That's what Howard has really honed in on. That's his superpower oozes out of him. Like, when you talk to him, when I hear him do these calls, he's never pushing. He's never salesy. He's always there giving it of something of value. His time, his knowledge, his information to assist these folks. So take that. That's my personal takeaway. Nick, I am so thankful you let me go first on my takeaways this time. Because I know it's been a rough last couple once. Okay, bud. And I really, really appreciate this conversation. I think it's truly been valuable in more than one way. And I personally will go back and listen to this episode again and pull some pull some nuggets out of it. Howard, I want to go to you last because I want you to have the last thoughts. But Mr. Nick Sankas, give me your takeaways on this, my friend. What's something you pull the way? I got, I got two takeaways. One is be more strategic. And number two is be more valuable, create more value. So whatever, whatever lane you want to fit in, whether it's probate, whether it's RIO, whether it's just like I said, a golf course listing in your community, provide the most value you possibly can actually care about what you're doing, treat your product, or treat your listings as a product. Because you're marketing for your listing. Yes, you want to sell that house immediately, but it's you are part of your portfolio that you can then express and show to other agents, I mean, other agents, but other people that you want to list their house of their homeowners or asset managers or whatever. So be strategic, be more valuable. And that has been a great conversation. Been phenomenal. Howard, give us some of your final thoughts. And then of course, I would love to have you share anywhere people get a hold of you, email phone number, website, you pick it, brother, let them know where to get a hold of you, but first give us your final thoughts. Well, I just want to say thank you for having me on this. It just, you know, I love, I love talking about real estate. I know sometimes my wife, like, she's like, can you just not talking about real estate? I'm like, I just, I love it so much. You know, I love, you know, looking at houses and, you know, a lot of my followers on Instagram, they love it because they like to look at my story because I don't show, you know, oh, hey, we went to look at his beautiful house today. I show the worst of the worst and they love him because it's a side that everybody doesn't see. You know, and that's where I like to, you know, I just like helping people. So Instagram, Howard Cells, NJ, Howard Cells, NJ at gmail.com, Howard Cells, NJ.com. It's pretty much it, you know, how it's like, there you go. My Facebook is Howard Dottens, or something or other. I don't know. You can find me. My pictures on there. I look like this. There you go. And for all of you guys listening, look for the most handsome man with a beard, goatee. You've ever seen in your entire life and that is the right profile. Okay. Well, that has been absolutely astonishingly awesome. Thank you, Howard, for spending a little over an hour with us breaking down at a 10,000 foot level because there's so many nuances and intricacies of doing that side of the business. Guys, reach out to Howard. He gave you all the ways to reach out to him. Do it immediately. You've got questions or thoughts. Nick, you have a job. Do you know what your job is? Yep. I already got the color. Good. We need a color for the bow and the show. What do we got? I got three colors. Oh, boy. Because we just passed fourth of July. So I'm saying red, white and blue. Okay. All right. Howard, I need you to pick a color for the bow and the show as well. We'll go blue. Blue. So we got here. I'll go red. He can go blue. Greg, don't fuck this up. We had to pick a different color. Don't fuck this up. I'm going to go with white Nick. Thank you. Good. Well done. Bravo. I'm going to tell you guys a secret joke off here. Anyways, guys, there is our show right there. We have a red, white and blue bow for this show. Thank you for watching. Thank you for hanging. We cannot do this show without you guys. So please like, follow, subscribe to any and all of us on all of our different platforms. Reach out to us if you guys have a suggestion for either a topic or a guest for this show. We would be happy to have a conversation with them and get them booked ASAP. We love you guys. Thank you so much. Until next time, peace out. And just, we go. Thanks for listening to today's episode. I hope you take action immediately with the tactics and the takeaways that you've learned. Now, if you'd like to take the relationship to the next level with me, which I strongly encourage that you do, by the way, once you guys are go ahead and shoot me a text, you know, it's 925-915-1978. A lot of times people are feeling stuck or they just need a third party to listen to kind of personal ideas that I would love to be that for you. Take the McDaniel Challenge. Well, over 400 people have taken the challenge. You know what? It's been a positive result. 99.9% of the time. No, I'm kidding. It's about 100% of the time. It's been a blast. I would encourage you guys to reach out to me. I really would love to talk with you. If you feel a little stuck, you guys need the third party to kind of just bounce my ideas off. I'm here for you. Getting that number is 925-915-1978. And as always, peace out, inches. We got it!