149: The Perfect Oil: Tallow + Why Seed Oils Should Not Be Consumed | Steven Arena of Masa Chips

On today's episode of The Real Fudalgy Podcasts. What you have to do in an almond to make a cookie that even resembles half of an actual cookie, made with real flour, you know? So you just swapped out one version of processed foods for another version of processed foods that taste way worse. When we could have just fixed the quality of the original foods, got them back to how they were before the sort of green revolution, all the agriculture chemicals, and then it would be delicious and it would be healthy. And that's what traditional food is. That's why it's so amazing. Hi friends, welcome back to another episode of The Real Fudalgy Podcast. I'm your host Courtney Swan. Today's episode is a really, really fascinating one. It was really fun for me to record because my guest, Steven and I, we have very similar philosophies when it comes to our diets. And he also explains a lot of these modern issues that we're dealing with right now with health in a very relatable way. He really makes it makes sense. He is the founder of Mosa Chips, which you guys will learn more about in the episode, but basically he created these tortilla chips just out of organic corn, grass head beef, tello, and salt. And let me tell you guys, these chips are incredible. I'm going to eat one. I'm going to give you guys a little chip ASMR just so you can hear the crunch. Oh my god. This is how chips are supposed to be. They're crunchy. They don't disintegrate when you dip them into guac or whatever dips you want to be eating them with. And they actually really taste good, unlike a lot of these other alternative foods. And we talk about that. So we get into swapping out more traditional foods for these like quote-unquote healthier, more processed foods. We dive into that. We talk about seed oils and why he uses beef tello instead of seed oils like most other tortilla chips, like pretty much every tortilla chip on the shelf. Besides his are made with canola oil or soybean oil or corn oil. So we dive into that. We really get into why poofas, which are polyunsaturated fatty acids, why those are not good for you. What the deal is with avocado oil, is it actually healthy for us, what we should be eating. We also talk about sunlight and what he feels about sunscreen. And do we actually burn if we eat more seed oils? Is that what's causing sunburns? This is a super informative episode. It was really fun for us to record. I had a great time talking with Steven and I hope you guys enjoy it. Before we get into the episode, please stay tuned to the very, very end because we are going to give you a discount code if you guys want to try mosa chips. You can go to their website and find out where they sell them near you or you can definitely of course order them online. Use the code. You're going to save a little bit of money. And of course, as always, if you guys are loving and enjoying the podcast, if you could just take a moment to rate and review, it would mean so much to me. It really helps the show with that. Let's get in with Steven. Did you know that you may not be getting all the beneficial probiotic bacteria from some of your favorite fermented foods? For example, kombucha, kimchi, sauerkraut. Unfortunately, a lot of these probiotics and the good bacteria in these foods don't always survive the trip to your gut. This is why, in addition to eating those very healthy and nutritious foods, I also like to take a probiotic like seed. And the reason I really like seed is because, unfortunately, not all probiotics are created equal. A lot of probiotics on the shelf also do not actually make it to your gut. So it's incredibly important that you're getting a good high-quality probiotic. Otherwise, those probiotics are going to be burnt up in your stomach acid and never actually repopulate your colon. That bacteria has a lot of stuff that has to get through digestive acids, bile salts, and enzymes. This is why I really like seed's DS01 daily symbiotic. It's nested in a capsule delivery technology that ensures precision entry through the small intestine to your colon. So that's the main reason that I love seed. And then, of course, also, because it is a highly effective probiotic. It's a broad spectrum, two in one plant-based, prebiotic and 24-strain probiotic. If they have a proprietary formulation of 24 distinct probiotic strains in scientifically-studied dosages and the systemic benefits go so above and beyond the gut. You know, I talk about this quite often on the podcast, but our gut health determines pretty much everything. Everything starts in the gut. Things from psoriasis to eczema, to constipation, anxiety, depression, mood disorders. All of this stuff is linked to you guys. Even probiotics can help with constipation, diarrhea. When I was in college, I used to struggle with yeast infections and guess what got rid of the yeast infections, taking your probiotic. So this is serious stuff for your health guys. And I love seed. It is well-backed, scientifically studied. I also have a podcast with the founder. If you guys want to go back and listen to that and hear about what makes seed truly stand out above the rest. Some of the other benefits, according to seed themselves, it helps with GI function, skin health, heart health, gut immune function, gut barrier integrity, and micronutrient synthesis of vitamins B, nine, and B12. Meaning it's going to give you more energy too. And you may see improvements in digestion within 24 to 48 hours, which can include bowel movement, regularity, and yeast bloating. And let me tell you guys, if someone who's been struggling with bloating a lot recently, I'm so excited to get back on my seed regimen because I really think this is going to help a lot. Also, can we just talk about their packaging for a second? Is someone who is really concerned about the plastic in our landfill? I am so obsessed with their sustainable monthly refill system. They give you a glass jar and a little mini travel jar as well. And then every month, you keep that jar and they send your new refillable supplements in a compostable biobased pouch that you pour into that jar. And this paper is made from algae that would otherwise damage fragile marine ecosystems. So all around, you can feel really good about purchasing seed probiotics because you are also helping to offset all the plastic and all the waste that we have in our landfills. So if you guys want to try seed probiotics today, please go to seed.com slash real-foodology and use code real-foodology to redeem 30% off your first month of seeds, DSN01 daily sendbiotic. Again, that's seedseed.com slash real-foodology and make sure to use code real-foodology. Steven, let's just dive into this. I'm so excited to have you on. Great. Yeah, I'm really good. It's going to be fun. I know. So before we start recording Steven and I were talking about, well, his chips, I initially found them in AirWon, it's a spring called Masa, and I'll let you tell people more about him, but basically they're organic corn, sea salt, and they're fried in beef tello. And I want to know why beef tello. Tell my audience why. Okay, why beef tello? So if you want to deep-price something, you have a few options. You got coconut oil, you got avocado oil, you obviously have seed oils, and then you have olive oil. That's like all the oils there are. So, seed oils are out because they're seed oils, obviously. Coconut oil, we tried. Avocado oil, we tried. When you fry stuff in plant oils, usually it comes out way too greasy. And so it's ironic you think, the animal fat is like greasier. But no, the plant oils are greasier, crazily enough. Wow. And I feel like with the plant oils, the chips break so easily. I don't want to. Yeah, it's just not meant for it. Like people are not out there in Polynesia, like deep-prying stuff in coconut oil. Like that's not a thing. And then avocado oil too is like, it's an option. But most avocado oil in the market is fake. It's because the avocados are all grown by drug cartel owned farms in Mexico. And so they have very little supply chain transparency. They've zero incentive to like make an authentic product. So yeah, there's a study done by USC San Diego. I think 82% of the avocado oil they could buy on the supermarket shelves. Like 82% of the brands were fake. Either laced with seed oils or like already rancid. And then this is, you know. So distressing. And it's even worse, less fun fact. Yeah. Because where does avocado oil come from? It comes from rotten avocados. Avocados are expensive. Like millennials will pay a lot of money for avocados if they're fresh. But a lot of avocados go bad in the supply chain. So what do you do with that avocados? Well, you turn into avocado oil. So yeah, it's super sus. Oh my god. Okay, so I'd never heard that before. I heard about the cutting. And that's what I was going to ask you about because assuming that most of my listeners have heard this before but I want to drop this just in case that they haven't, this is a really huge problem with olive oil too. And it's in, yeah. And it's the same kind of thing. Like they're in, you know, 60 minutes did a whole segment on this. So it's definitely not a conspiracy. What's happening is a lot of these companies are cutting with seed oil. So like canola, soybean, whatever you have it. And then marketing it is olive oil. And I more recently have found this out about avocado oil. So four people listening that are like, oh my god, what do I do? How do you find, do you know how to find like a good clean avocado oil if that's what you want? I personally don't know how to find a good clean avocado oil. I think the study that did this investigation, they published the brands that were like, okay, so you could look at that. And remember, this is like the brands on the shelves. Imagine like what you're getting when you're buying an industrial quantities. Like that's never the highest quality item, right? Because the highest quality always goes to retail. Yeah, so you got the drug cartels in Mexico, lacing avocado oil. You got the mafia in Italy lacing olive oil. So those are those are out. And then also, yeah, you shouldn't really fry in plant oils for the reasons I already described. So that leaves talo. And guess what? Talo is like the OG frying oil. If you've ever been to Belgium and eaten the Belgian fries, like they invented french fries. Like that's the most famous french fries in the world. And they're fried in talo. Like that's why they're so good. McDonald's used to fry in talo up until the 90s. So yeah, that's and figuring all this stuff out. Like when I wanted to make the chips, I was like, okay, we have to do talo. Like that's the right way to do it. The other benefit to talo is that a lot of it goes, it's wasted in the current supply chain. So like people talk about nose to tail eating and whatever. Well, there's a lot of beef fat that farmers, like many times pay to get rid of. Like it's trash product. They can't do anything with it. And so you have farmers who are trying to do pasture raise. They have, they're trying to get the most money per animal. And so now we have a user talo, which is great. So there's a whole host of benefits to it. I mean, they also taste amazing. And the last thing is the plant oils are also not nutrient dense. So yeah, some of them are more saturated. Some of them are better than others. But only the animal fats have vitamin A, vitamin K, vitamin D, conjugated little egg acid, like CLA, all these things. So talo is really a good choice. But it was definitely a pain making that decision because of production. I mean, how did you, how'd you even come up with this in the first place? I want people to hear your, your founding story. Oh, nice. Nice. Also, I, I, I've been involved and obsessed with health for almost 10 years at this point. And so seed oils were one of the, the more recent things that I like really, you know, stumbled upon is like, okay, this is, this is super terrible. That must have been, you know, over two and a half years ago, at this point. And so the last food that I willingly ate that had seed oils in it was tortilla chips because they're just so good. You know, it's not like, obviously, it's like a snack food. It's like chips are snacks. But like the way that you can use tortilla chips, like that's part of a healthy diet. Because I need, I'm busy. Whatever I need lunch, I'll put cheese and meat, like some salsa on tortilla chips. And like that's like, that's a good meal right there. It's gluten free. It's pretty digestible. And nothing will ever replace what you dip in a guacamole. I'm sorry. You can try to get your numbers. Yeah, it doesn't work. Cracker is easy to get the hell out of here. No, you can get out of here. Yeah, so yeah, they, it's just like they were too good. And I was getting like the organic tortilla chips made with organic canola oil, which is like a joke. And so at one point, I was like, this is enough. I can't be in good conscious eating seed oil anymore. So I stopped eating the tortilla chips. And then about, about six months later. So I was in Miami with one of my friends, or a few of my friends for a New Year's trip. And one of them was like eating, like take out seed oil, taco, nacho, whatever the hell. And he's just sitting across the room. He's not into health. And I was just like glaring at him. Like, dude, what are you doing? Like eating your engine lubricant over there. And he's like, what? Come on. It's like, it's just chips. They're delicious. And I was like, yeah, okay, fine. They taste good. But like you're poisoning yourself. And then in the classical tour, I'm sure you've heard this many times. Well, you know, I'd rather enjoy my life than be healthy and miserable like you. Classic, classic. And I'm sitting there like, like no, you don't get it. Like dude, I eat food on a daily basis. That's like better than anything you've ever tasted. I eat raw milk, raw milk ice cream. You know, my grass bed, rib eyes, my potatoes and butter, honey, you know, organic seasonal berries aren't like organic citrus fruits. Like cheese, you know, I like how, how is that an unpleasurable life? And so most people don't know this, that's the thing. So and he didn't know this. Cause like, and you know, our culture has this idea that it's either or it's health or taste. You can't have both. And so I started explaining to this, same thing to him, same thing about tortilla chips. Like no, you could have a good tortilla chip. And I, you know, I'd make it organic or I'd fry it in salad. I explained all the hypotheticals. And then he was like, well, why don't you go and make them yourself? And then I'm like boom, okay, maybe I will. And then that was, that was, that was it. Then we, that's my co-founder actually today. And so then we, you know, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah, we left Miami and it was like a sort of fun little, you know, friends are going to start a startup kind of side project, like in the back of our heads. And then over the next few months, we just gathered more and more Intel, got more serious about it. We found someone to do the brand art, which, you know, you've seen that. I mean, fire. Yeah, it's so good. I mean, this is how I first founded at Airwann. It's because I just saw like Rose and Rose, and we were talking about this. There was like a wall of them at Airwann. And I was like, that is, not only was there a wall of them, but it's such beautiful branding. And I'm a sucker. I'm a sucker for branding. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, don't just book by its cover, but not like do, you know. It's, it means something. So, um, so that branding, when I first saw the packaging design, I was like, okay, there's no way we can't do this now. Because up until that point, it was like, ah, you know, maybe it'll happen. Yeah. But once we saw it, it was like this must enter reality. And so then, then we, you know, try to find a manufacturer to make it for us, which is if people aren't familiar, this is exactly what every CPG brand does. You know, you have a brand, you have an idea, and you go try to find a co-manufactures, what they're called to like go make it for you. Basically, all the food in the country is produced by like maybe a few hundred factories. That's, that's how it works. No one wanted to touch it because of the talo. And so people were like, well, what if he used coction oil? What if he used avocado oil? And I was like, no, we're not doing that. Because I had made a prototype with talo, and they were just amazing. I'm like, I'm not compromising on this. So we then had to figure out how to make it ourselves. And we started in like a rinky-dink little commissary kitchen with the, you know, a deep, like a restaurant deep prior in our talo and our tortillas. And just grew from there. And we're still making it ourselves today, actually. Oh, really? Little known facts. Yeah, like I was up factory this morning. So are you, but are you still, do you have a co-manufacture? No, no, we're still doing it. We, you know, we've upgraded. We have like an entire, like very big, like nice kitchen. It's really cool. It's in this old office building. I find it very ironic. The office building was formerly occupied by Merck. Oh, wow, that's incredible. So we have an old Merck office building. We have the cafeteria, like where they used to like have lunch for the people in the office before, you know, remote work was a thing. That was loaded with seed oils, I'm sure. Yeah, we, it's all, it's all our new equipment, you know, we brought it. We brought in bigger friars, but yeah, no, it's still like a basket and like a bunch of guys, like with baskets, like a salt shaker, like putting it in bags, and like with a ceiling machine by hand, and like we ship it out by, it's all, it's all done by hand. And so when people are like, oh my, it's expensive. And I'm like, well, yeah, because I have like 12 employees that I have to pay living wages too. You have to make these chips. Yeah, well, and I also tell people too that, yeah, I mean, that's expensive, but you know, it's even more expensive. Surgery, medication for the rest of your life. Constant doctor bills. Doctors. Yeah, like like people, like the amount of money people spend on medical bills, like blows my mind. Like I would be bankrupt if I had those, if I had like the average Americans, like medical bills. Like I think the average American spends 12k, 12 to 13k on medical bills in a year. That's like average. My medical bills are, I mean, zero. Zero. I mean, when I had like health insurance at my last job, I would go for my annual checkup, but I don't have that, I don't do that anymore, so it's like zero. Yeah, no, seriously, but that's why I always tell people, I'm like, you can either pay for it now or you pay for it later, not only in your health and your energy and your mental health, but way more, like astronomically more in your wallet too. Yeah, and it's like people only seem to care about money, but it's like what about you like enjoying and like having a good life for the 50, for the 80 years that you're going to be around, you know? Okay, we can like get an Excel spreadsheet and do the budget all we want, but if like, you're going to be miserable and like overweight and like unhappy and like bad skin or whatever, whatever your health problem is, like, is that worth money, you know? And there's some people I guess it is, but you know, that seems crazy to me. I know, I agree. And like, what do you not want to have energy to go up about your day? I also have this mentality too of like, when you feel better in your body, you obviously have more energy, so you're going to make more money because you're going to show up better for your job. Yeah. Yeah, like you can't, like you can't perform at a high level. I mean, most people, I imagine most people listening to this probably make money because of their brain, like whether it's marketing or finance or whatever, like their brain is what allows them to make money. And if your brain is jammed up with seed oils and arsenic, like you're just talking about cassava is high in arsenic, if your brain is full of these toxins, like how are you going to like perform at a level where you can like actually provide for yourself? Exactly, that's why like it pays off to put more money into your food now, you know? And okay, so I want to go into that a little bit because that actually blew my mind. So we were, before we were recording, we were talking about cassava. I was telling Steven that I have more recently discovered that for a lot of people apparently cassava causes your glucose to really spike, like crazy high. I have a girlfriend that was wearing a glucose monitor and she shared her results yesterday and her blood levels, her blood glucose levels went up to 196 after eating cassava. That's insane. That's insane. That's insane. That's crazy. Yeah, that's wild. Okay, so if anyone's listening to this and has a CGM and wants to dedicate their body to science, please do this. I've heard a few reports and I've seen some screenshots but it'll be great to like see more. Someone ate masa. This is like two weeks after we launched and someone was eating masa, they had a CGM and they post a screenshot of their levels after they ate a bag, a whole bag and it was like flat. Like it wasn't like a noticeable thing. And so. Oh my God. I mean, so obviously you have the carbs from corn but you also have like a lot of saturated fat which as we know prevents like the spiking of blood sugar that would be due to the sugar carbs. So the combination, like it works and yeah, I mean, cassava, I've never felt good eating it personally. Like I tried the whole cassava pasta that there's that one brand that has like cassava pasta. It like tastes good. It's like all right. All right, jovial. Yeah, it's good enough but like and I made mac and cheese and I was like, oh, I'm gonna be, you know, eat my cassava pasta, the cassava chips, the cassava strips fried in avocado oil. That's the thing too. But it always like made my digestive, my digestion like works. And I'm like, this is like this is, and then you look into cassava. It's like ground up powderized flour from this plant in Southeast Asia that like I'm just guessing that most of the people listening to this, their ancestors have never even seen a cassava, you know, in their entire, like they're the first person in 10,000 generations to ever encounter that food. Like, okay, so you're telling me that's like paleo and like that's healthy it's like ancestral eating. What about your ancestors, you know? So it's just like, I think what happened is people for, you know, the 20th century, food just became so junk. The potato chips, the corn chips, the french fries, the candy, the bread, whatever it was. Like the foods that are recognizable became such junk that people were like, okay, everything about those foods is bad. Like everything. So don't eat bread, don't eat gluten, don't eat saturated fats was the thing back then. You know, pesticides are bad. So don't eat pesticides, corn's bad, don't eat corn. Don't eat any of this. But then what they ended up doing was they just swapped out one version of processed foods. There were another version of processed foods. Although this version of processed foods like comes from like Latin America and has exotic names or like comes from Southeast Asia and it's like, oh, it's cold. It must be good. Oh, it's cheesy. It's like, oh, so it must be good. And it's like, dude, like what you have to do to these foods to like even attempt to recreate the effect that you had. Like for bread, for example, what you have to do to an almond, like ungodly things to an almond to make a cookie that like even resembles half of like an actual cookie made with like real flour, you know? So you just swapped out one version of processed foods for another version of processed foods that taste way worse. When we could have just fixed the quality of the original foods, got them back to how they were before the sort of green revolution, all the agriculture chemicals and the additives and stuff. And then it would be delicious and it would be healthy. But and that's what traditional food is. That's why it's so amazing. Like people kept traditional recipes alive over generations because they had value. Just like, you know, you think about all the old books. It's like a common thing. All the old, why are all the old books so good? Well, because monks in monasteries for thousands of years manually had to copy books. So they would only spend their time copying the books that were good. It's the same thing with recipes. Only the recipes that are good get passed down generation after generation and they're good because they satisfy us like on a psychological, like, you know, dopamine sense because they taste good. But they're nutritionally supportive. So that's why traditional recipes are so good. We have the best recipes available to us and then we just threw them all in the trash and we're eating like ungodly cassava abomination. So, so that's the whole agreed, that's the whole food philosophy. That massage, just like the tip of the iceberg with for our company, but also just like in general, you know, like it's hard to breath. Eat raw milk, eat ice cream, you know, all these things with real ingredients. I love that so much. You and I are on the exact same page. We have very similar philosophies. I always tell people, anyone that feels confused about what to eat, I'm like, look back to all the foods that we've been eating forever, you know, like what are our ancestors really eat? What are the foods that have been most, most people have had, you know, access to for the majority of our time on this planet and what would that be? Milk, cheese, eggs, beef, you know, animal foods, animal fats, corn, a lot of people had access to corn. Yeah, like thousands of years. So I mean, and some people will make the argument and share it like it's somewhat valid that like corn and grains in general have been cultivated for less time than animal foods. And they're certainly correct. But that's like a saying that we shouldn't eat that is to say that humans have not evolved in the past 10, 15,000 years. And we clearly, clearly have like the very ability for like certain people to digest lactose and other people to not shows that evolution has happened in the past so many thousands of years. Well, actually, but the, sorry to interrupt you with the argument with the lactose, again, comes back to also another thing that I say often is it's what has been done to the food. Oh, yeah, yeah. So we were drinking raw milk. And if you're not pasteurizing and homogenizing it and taking out all those amazing enzymes that allow our body to actually digest the lactose, then of course, like you can digest it. But what we're doing is we're completely processing it. We're heating it up so high that has no nutrients, no vitamins and no enzymes left in there. And so then it's affecting our bodies in different ways. Like when we mess with nature and what we're given, it's not going to have the same effect on our body. Yeah. Yeah, like the milk thing is very interesting because like because of the probiotics and the bacteria in milk, they'll digest it for you if you build up those probiotics over time. So there are people who do have genetically produced, like a genetic mutation that allows them to produce lactase. So they it's like double lactose tolerance. But there are plenty of people like the Mongols are a great example. Like East Asians don't have that gene, but the Mongols drink a ton of raw milk. Like that's been their thing for centuries. And so they're still able to digest it even without that gene because their gut microbiome has the proper bacteria to be able to do it. So lactose for sure, like anyone can become lactose tolerant provided you're eating the right milk. So yeah, that's milk is a great food. But like the grains too, it's a fun one. I mean, people like to rail on seeds, a lot of season grains, I mean myself included, of all the foods that are seeds, which there are many. Nuts, legumes, beans, pumpkin seeds, like actual seeds, like grains. The seeds being like the strains and the species of these seeds that were cultivated for human consumption, they became more digestible over the generations of like cultivation, you know? So if you think back five thousand years ago the Aztecs eating corn, like corn was, you know, bred to be more digestible. And there's a lot of these modern sort of seeds that people are obsessed with that humans didn't really ever eat. But because it's not a grain and grain is like a dirty word, we eat them. And they're way more inflammatory. They have way more anti-nutrients. They have way more, they have much higher pufo content. So they're much more inflammatory. And because I guess there was a big grain scare like 10 to 15 years ago, people don't like them. People don't like grains they eat the seeds instead. But it's like if you're gonna eat a food, why would you not wanna eat the food that's like the version of it that's been most like bred to be digestible and prepared to be digestible? Why would you wanna eat the one that's like growing out in the wilds? Because those like 90, you know, 99% of plant matter is indigestible. You're gonna want to eat the 1% that is. And it is that way because humans cultivated it. So it's like that's why you'd wanna eat those things. Well, that's such a great point. But you know what I was also thinking about too, there's such a fine line, right? Of like creating these foods that are more digestible and we can evolve with them. And then I was thinking alternatively of what we've done to corn specifically here in the United States, where over 90% of it is genetically modified in round of breading meaning that has round up in the seed. So like you have to be careful, you have to be really educated as a consumer. You don't wanna, so the operating principle here is that like it occurs like over time consistent with like an evolutionary process. Like corn being what it is, like the amount of change that corn underwent from like 5,000 years ago to like 1950 is like nothing in comparison to what it's gone through since 1950 with genetic engineering to the present day. So it's like, that's crazy. Like that type of process is crazy because it's, it's definitely is not fit for us because we, you know, how many generations have there been of humans since the genetic engineering of corn, like not enough time for any sort of evolution to have occurred. Maybe two, what, maybe maybe two? Yeah, exactly. But over the 5,000 years like bread, for example, over the 5th years and years, 5th, 10th out, no, it's like 8,000 years of like bread in the, in the Middle East and then into Europe, that's a lot of generations. So, so yeah, there's like this balance that you want to strike between like modern hybridization and weird, you know, fiddling, that's like bad, but also like a thousand, thousand year long process of like good, right? Like the animals too, people, it's very funny. People will say, oh, eat wild foods and then you'll see those things, like those memes on Instagram where it's like, this is what a banana looks like. This is what a strawberry looks like and it's like they look terrible and completely unaptizing. And it's like, yeah, okay, those are domesticated foods. Congratulations. What about the animals you eat? How many of you people are eating wild hunted deer elk that you caught yourself, you know? So true. Like what are you talking about? How many people who are drinking raw milk are going out and trying to capture like a gazelle and milk it, you know? Like cows don't, like cows are fake animals in the same way that like corn or like the strawberries are like fake, like we bred them for the purpose of nourishing us. It just so happens that humans in the past did that process more wisely than the humans do today. And thus, you know, the modern, like the very contemporary creations, like say in any of the food that's been modified after like 1950 or maybe just the 20th century, keep it easy. That's very questionable. But before that, like it's great, you know, more nutrients, like more quantity, like great. That's awesome. Let's do that. I have been consuming collagen for about six years now. I like to put it in my morning drink, whether that's coffee or matcha, I usually prefer coffee, but lately I've actually been doing coffee and then having a matcha a little bit later. I love to mix the collagen in with my nut milk that I put in my coffee. It's usually almond milk or coconut milk. And I'm so excited to announce that Organifi has their own collagen now. As with all Organifi products, it's glyphosate residue free, really high quality. It has hydrolyzed bovine, high collagen peptides that are derived from pasture raised cows. It also has egg shell membrane collagen. It's taken from the thin layer between the egg and the shell. And this is collagen rich, and it may be beneficial for strong joint health. It also has hydrolyzed fish collagen peptides derived from wild caught fish. Because this collagen source is of a small particle size, it makes it easier to digest and more absorbable. And then there's also chicken bone broth protein concentrate in there. This collagen type is actually found in your gut, joints and cartilage, and it helps support greater health both inside and out. Collagen is really good for lubricating the joints. It's also great for healing and sealing the gut. Often now, because of our diets, people are dealing with leaky gut syndrome, and collagen actually goes in there and helps to seal the gut. So if you're having any sort of leaky gut syndrome symptoms, collagen may be your best bet. It's also great for just replenishing collagen stores that diminish as we age, and may help with wrinkles and keeping supple skin, because collagen also is what keeps our skin elastic. So this is why I consume collagen. I love organify, I love all of their products. If you guys want to try any of the organify products for 20% off, you can use Code Real Foodology or go to organified.com slash real foodology. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash real foodology. Looking to build a more robust foundation in your health and well-being, from the producer of the Real Foodology podcast, comes one of the most popular alternative health shows on Apple podcasts, The Dr. Tina Show. Dr. Tina Moore is a natural pathic physician and chiropractor traditionally and alternatively trained in science and medicine. The show features exclusive interviews with experts such as Sean Stevenson, Mike Mutzel, Mark Groves, and even solo episodes covering metabolic health, pharmaceuticals, chronic diseases, long hauler syndrome, and pain management. Dr. Tina delivers the information in a no-nonsense real-world style and she has the science to back it up. The Dr. Tina Show is edgy, entertaining, and informative. Every episode will leave you with a new pearl of health wisdom to expand your knowledge base. When you're empowered, you can do better for yourself, your family, and your community. Resilience is the name of the game and Dr. Tina is here to guide you on your way. Listen to The Dr. Tina Show today on your favorite podcast app, new episodes every Wednesday, produced by Drake Peterson and resident media. So is that one of the reasons why you chose corn specifically for your chips? I want to ask you that too, because I know as we're talking about this, obviously a lot of people have an issue with grains, a lot of people are really against corn. I'm okay with corn if it's organic, which I know you use organic corn, so maybe you can tell us a little bit about that. Sure. So I mean, very, very simply, tortilla chips are made of corn. Like shoot me. It's true. It's true. Like you can't have, if it's not made of corn, it's not a tortilla chip. It's something else, maybe it's a cracker or whatever, but it's not a tortilla chip. Like there is no substitute for corn in that recipe that could ever be a satisfying, like and fit as well with the recipes and the ways in which you consume it. As anyone who's tried alternative, alternative, quote unquote, tortilla chips brands, who I will not name, will know. It's just inherently unsatisfying. So I also, the other thing about corn is that there's a very historical process for preparing it in a way that makes it more digestible. So the other thing about like digestibility of like grains in particular in history is that not only do we have the cultivation of them for this purpose, we also have traditional methods that like rose up in order to address this digestibility problem. So prepare them in a way that's like fit for humans to eat. Souro bread is probably the most famous example of this. You know, you ferment it with bacteria in yeast that like they literally reduce the gluten. They reduce the fightates and the fightic acid and they make it more digestible. And then, you know, everyone who I'm sure you have many friends who will tell you, oh, I went to Italy and I just ate the bread and I felt great, you know, I lost weight, you know. That, that's happening because bread has made the right way. So corn has a similar process. It doesn't involve bacteria, but it involves like boiling it with basically limestone. It is called nixomalization. It's on the back of the bag. It's like that big word that everyone always asks me what it means. And so the Aztecs invented this like thousands of years ago. And by boiling with limestone, it gets rid of the very indigestible outer shell. Like when you eat corn in the cob and you like poop and then there's corn shells in the toilet, nixomalization gets rid of that. And it also makes a certain nutrients more bioavailable. So like vitamin B3 is more bioavailable. And there's other, this other thing with like magnesium where if you eat raw corn, you eat too much of it, your body's ability to absorb magnesium will diminish. So there's also like microtoxins that end up in raw corn that are eliminated through the process of nixomalization. So yeah, doing that makes it very digestible and it also makes it taste good. And so we have this traditional process of traditional ingredient in a traditional recipe. And there's no substitute for it. Like their potatoes chips are great, crackers are great. But like when you need a corn chip, you need a corn chip. Let me tell you as someone who grew up in San Antonio, Texas, which I think there are, there's more Mexican food restaurants than like there are any other food. And so I grew up on like pretty traditional, you know like Tex Max and like traditional Mexican food. And I told you this one, I met you. These chips taste like those like legit, like I would go to these like whole in the wall Mexican food restaurants where you know that they're using lard and like legit real old recipes. This is exactly what they taste like. Not only that, not only are they like uncompromised and taste out of anything else I've ever tried, they don't break when you dip them in stuff. Some of these other chip alternatives that we were, you know, we're not gonna name. You can't even dip them in anything because they just like disintegrate and then the dip. I usually end up getting like a spoon with the chip and then I'm like, this is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. These don't break. They're incredible. You did such a good job. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that's good. Anyone from San Antonio or anyone who like, so for example, one of the, for a few weeks after I started, I got a similar remark from someone who's like grandma's, like from a small town in Mexico. He's like, hey, my grandma, like when she makes tortilla chips, she makes them with lard and like these tastes like that. And I'm like, that's an amazing compliment right there. Yeah, so it's like, if you think about the perfect version of something, right, there's like the actual thing and then there's like the perfect version that it could be, like this is the perfect version of a tortilla chip. Like that's, I would agree. That's what it is. That's like every box was checked very deliberately, of course, because I'm not gonna like spend my effort making things that are like not as good as they could possibly be. And I think that's, that's also something that a lot of quote unquote health food suffer from. It's like they'll do one or two things, like right. They're like, oh, our cheese is like regenerative or our, this ingredient is organic. And it's like, bro, what about all of these other five things that you're not doing right, like who's, I'm not paying for, I'm not paying for this. Like I'm either getting perfect or I'm not gonna eat it at all. You know, if I don't, if I don't have moschips, I'm not eating tortilla chips, right? I'll, I'll, I'll do something else, you know? I'll figure it out. So, so yeah, you really have to make sure that every single box is checked. And I think we did a good job doing that with, with this product. Yeah, you really did. You know what else is really cool about these chips? And we've also talked about this. They really fill you up. So one of the issues that I've had, like when I go to like a Mexican food restaurant, I mean, everyone knows this. You go and you sit and you eat all the chips and salsa. And you just feel like you can eat like two full, like baskets of, you know? Yeah, I can tell you this. And they're very thin. So you can just eat them. You just like a house, you know? And these, like I can't even, like I couldn't even eat them all. Like I couldn't even eat a whole bag if I tried because they really fill you up and satisfy you. Yeah. Which is something like from a nutritionist standpoint, I'm like, this is what you want from your food. You want something that's really satisfying and filling that will keep you full for a longer period of time. Yeah. Cause that's how you, you made it to your blood glucose levels. You mentioned earlier that this doesn't make your glucose spikes. So you're not gonna crash and like create more sugar later. It's really, I mean, an ideal situation. Yeah, I think people look at the, our nutrition label and be like, oh, it's the same calories as any other tortilla chip. And that's true. But other tortilla chips, you'll eat 20 of them and want 20 more. But these, you know, you'll eat 20 of them and that's good. That's it. Exactly. And so people who are like, I'm sure many of your listeners are like mindful of their caloric intake, right? You want to minimize, you want to, if you want to reduce your calories, you want to do it in a way that doesn't leave you feeling starving and then like prone to binging, you know, late at night when your willpower is weak and, you know, whatever. Exactly. So you want to be full on fewer calories. This is the way to do it. And there's a very simple explanation for this, which is one of the things that really blew my mind when I was initially doing all my research on seed oil as a few years ago. Like polyensaturated fats like in seed oils don't trigger your cells like fullness receptors. Like your cells will not emit the fullness hormones when you eat polyensaturated fats. Like there's a great lecture on YouTube about this if people are interested by Michael Eads. But I'll try to summarize as best as I can. Basically, your cells can eat an infinite amount of glucose because you can convert it very easily to, or convert into ATP, energy, whatever. But it's not that, yeah, it's not that energy dense. So like, you know, this is why you can drink an entire sweet tea or like half a bottle of coke or something. You could just down calories of sugar. It's very easy to do that. But fats are more calorie dense per gram than sugar. Like almost twice, twice is calorie dense. So if you eat fat, your cells will see fat come again. And there'll be like, oh, this is a lot of energy. We don't need all this much. Like once we get enough, we're good. So they send out, you know, the fullness hormones. Seed oils are a fat. So they're just calorie dense as fats are. As all fats are. But they have the same way of triggering fullness hormones that glucose has, which is to say they don't. So like your body looks at it as if it's sugar but it's twice the calories that it thinks it is. So because they're like inherently unnatural, like our body's not designed to like recognize that. And so you end up eating more. And one of the cool study on this was like, they fed a bunch of kids a carb plus a fat combination. And they were like, hey, just eat as much as you want until you're full. Just, you know, do it up. And then they like measured the amount of calories that they ended up eating. And so when the carb plus fat, when the fat was a saturated fat, there was like three or 400 fewer calories that they ate, then the seed oil plus carb combination. So it's like, this is real. Like you eat it, you're full. Like we're not making this up here. Wow, that's fascinating. I've never even heard that before. Yeah. I just assumed because it was a higher quality, you know, more nutrient dense fat. That's so interesting. Little known fact about saturated fats. Yeah, the lecture by, yeah. This is one of the greatest things that I've ever seen about this is most people know about seed oils. It's an inflammation, oxidation, right? It's bad for your skin, IBS, blah, blah, blah. Which is all very true. But there's this additional fact about it in the way that it affects your metabolism. And so this is why you have all the insulin wackiness going on with seed oils because you're eating all these calories, but your body thinks it's sugar. So like it messes up that natural, you know, calorie regulation system. So that affects your insulin. And then your insulin resistance. And so this is why people will still have diabetes or whatever the symptoms when they don't eat sugar. Because it's not the sugar that's messing with you. It's the seed oil's messing with you. Can we talk about that more? Because I know, so I've done a couple of episodes on it. But just in case, I want to give people a little bit of a refresher, because I also really like your viewpoint on this. Why are seed oils so bad? And can we name them for people? So they know what is the deal with the poufas, with the polyunsaturated fatty acids? 100% we can name them. I actually wrote a sub-stack on this because people kept asking me, so now I can pull it up, so I don't do it for memory. Because I get so many DMs from people. A lot of people are so really confused on seed oils. And so I think repetition, people need to keep hearing it. Because seed oils aren't, they don't call themselves seed oils. That's like the sort of tricky thing about that. Exactly. They either are called vegetable oil, or they have the name of the actual seed. So the industrial seed oils, there's nine of them that you'll find in common places. So soybean oil, canola oil, corn oil. Also canola oil for the record is also called rapeseed oil, especially, yeah. Delicious. Let's touch some of that. Yum. They call that, they call that in like Europe a lot at the time. But so canola oil, a lot of it comes from Canada. And so canola is not a plant. Canola is a portmanteau of Canada and oil. So canola and oil. Yeah, do you know what's canada low-acid oil? I know that. Because they messed with it. Because it was really high in, I'm going to mess it up. Erusic acid. Erusic acid. Erusic acid. And so they modified it to bring it down. And that's why it's called canadian low-acid oil. Interesting. That's crazy. Yeah. So canola sounds a lot better than like... Then rapeseed. But if you think about it, it's like canola. This sounds like something you'd find in an automotive shop. Right? Yeah. You know? So I mean oil, canola oil. Corn oil. Corn oil, which is going to sound interesting because we're talking about corn. We get to that in a minute. Cotton seed oil. Well, guess what? Cotton's not food. Sunflower oil, safflower oil, grape seed oil. So grapes. And that was often considered like higher end. Like if you go to like William Sonoma, they'll have like grape seed oil and like a fancy bottle. And it's like, oh, grapes. So true. Anyway, peanut oil, which is arguably the quote-unquote best of the seed oils because it's the lowest in poofa. So peanut oil. Sorry. Still from seed. Peanuts are seeds. And then a rice bran oil, which I've seen on sort of like high end homemade, like you know, house made tortilla chips before. And yeah. So there's the oil. So once again, for the record, soybean, canola, corn, cotton seed, sunflower, safflower, grape seed, peanut, and rice bran oil. And the reason why they're bad is there's two things. All these come from an industrial process, meaning like if I set you back to a time machine 200 years ago, like no one on earth could possibly make it for you because you need big machinery and like chemical solvents and stuff. And the fact that you live with that is that they're all concentrated. So every seed, every individual seed that is in a seed oil has a tiny bit of oil. And so you have to squeeze a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of oil out of a large, large, large number of seeds to get an appreciable quantity of seed oil. So for example, corn oil, like one tablespoon of corn oil is like 20 years of corn worth of oil. That's insane. Yeah. Maybe it doesn't. I don't know. But it's more than you ever yesterday eating. Exactly. It's more than you ever consider eating. So like this is kind of the issue. Like when we talk about like natural foods, whole foods, like I'm sure people are familiar with the whole idea, like eat fruit instead of playing sugar because you get the fiber along with the sugar. Yeah. You know, actual foods have all the things that you need in the right combinations for you to process them. Wow. Magic. What a coincidence. Right. So when you do this sort of concentration BS, then you're able to extract a lot of like more of the bad stuff, you know, all at once and hyper concentrate it that you would never be able to expose yourself to that in like a natural setting. A similar thing happens when people start putting kale and juices like kale and other cruciferous vegetables are high in oxlates and oxlates are toxic in large quantities. They can cause kidney stones and inflammatory, they're inflammatory in general, it's sorry bad. However, if you were to eat kale, you would maybe eat like a few leaves or something and then you'd be tapped out like that's enough kale. But if you were to juice it without the fiber filling you up, you're going to eat like pounds of kale worth of kale, you know, in this juice without the fiber. And so anything that's bad in the kale is going to get concentrated and then you're going to eat a lot of it and that's a problem. So it's sitting with seed oils. There's bad thing that's present in small quantities that would not be worth worrying about in normal situations becomes very potent because you eat a lot of it. So that's the general, like what seed oils are. Why they're bad? Simply, I mean, they are inherently inflammatory. And so oils, like fats in general, when you eat fats, they go everywhere in your body because your body is run on and built with fat. Your cell membranes are made of fat, your cholesterol, like your hormones are made of fat. You have body fat. So fat gets everywhere. And so wherever this inflammatory fat molecule ends up, it causes inflammation. And then wherever that is, it looks slightly different, but it causes a problem. So if it happens in your eyes, you get macular generation of happens in your brain, you get Alzheimer's, happens in your skin, you get skin cancer and sunburn. If it happens in the fat, especially in women around the middle part of their body, then you get cellulite because estrogen combined with poof is basically causes cellulite and those tissues are higher in estrogen. If it happens in your gut, you get IBS, and happens in your liver, you get fatty liver disease. So the point is, like, they're, think about, they're literal, they're just, they're just terrorist molecules that go all over your body and just like tear apart your living tissues. And so whatever that looks like in whatever part of your body it is, it's going to have some, you know, you know, noticeable effect. Yeah. Wow. That's fascinating. I've actually never heard someone describe it in that way. So I'm glad I asked you. So you brought up a really great point that I think will help people understand this. It is very hard to extract, extract oil out of like a sunflower seed, but then you think alternatively olive oil, one of the reasons why it's so healthy for you. I mean, you just squish and, and you get oil. And olive oil comes out. Exactly. Like it leaks out. Yeah. So olive oil is like a fruit oil. Absolutely. Avocados is a fruit oil that comes from the fleshy fruit part of that thing, not the seed on the inside. Although there's another clever one olive pommis oil. Oh, I haven't heard of that. P-O-M-A-M-A-C-E. It's on like cheaper foods or like it's used in industrial settings so people can call it olive oil. But like they just crush the whole olives off up and after they extract the extra virgin olive oil, they crush this mashup. I think it's called pommis. That's why it's hence the name. And they crush the seeds. So now you have olive seeds there. And all the good oil has been extracted and then whatever's left, that's olive pommis oil. So yeah, big difference between fruit, like the only places where you can get oils from our seeds, fruits, and animal animals. So the only fruit oil that I would personally consider worth eating is olive oil. I mean, if I were a Polynesian, I would consider eating coconut oil. But I'm not. And when I eat it, it makes me feel terrible. And I like my excrement appears in ways that are too graphic to describe. But it's not pleasant. So I don't eat it. My ancestry comes from the Mediterranean, so I will eat my olive oil and I'll be fine. But yeah, so that's the only fruit oil I would eat. And then the other oils, of course, the animal fats. So you got buttering ghee, which are like the same thing, which are amazing. And then, lard is questionable. It's based on the source of the pig. If the pig's good, the lard's going to be good, if the pig's bad, the lard's going to be bad. And the same thing, like chicken fat or something. So yeah, personally, I would stick to like real olive oil, butter, tallow, and honestly, that's pretty much it. Yeah, ghee, make sure. Yeah, that's pretty much what I do, too. Yeah. I mean, what do you eat? Anything else for? Yeah. I totally agree. So I know this is something you're really passionate about, and I'm excited to talk to you about this. Kind of piggybacking off the seed oils. So we hear a lot about this online now that if you don't eat seed oils, you won't burn. And everyone is so scared of the sun, everyone's so scared of getting burned, everyone's using this crazy chemical sunscreen that they're lathering on their skin, and then it's reacting with the chemicals in that sunscreen are reacting with the UV rays. And that is actually what it's causing cancer. Yeah. Like, it's very funny, cancer rates increase as time goes on, and people spend less time in the sun, in particular, less time in the sun, unprotected, right? Like, I like to say this little thought experiment. If the sun were toxic to human biology, like we would never have left, like come out of the trees, you know, we'd be still swinging from branches in the shade as monkeys, you know? That's a great point. How does that make sense? Like, how is that even a really possible? So I mean, there's a few things to consider, right? Because like, some people will be like, oh, well, the ozone layer is like depleted so it's like the sun's too strong. Well, the ozone layer has recovered within, I think, 6% of what it, you know, historically was, after we banned the chemical that caused the hole in the ozone layer in the 1980s. So that's not it. I mean, yeah, you could argue latitude, for sure. Like if you're from northern Europe and you spend your time in Costa Rica, there's going to be, you know, a little bit of adaptation there that maybe you're not 100% well suited to. But at the same time, your ancestors were out in the sun, like farming and hunting and doing all their stuff, like for hours a day. And what do you do? Like 30 minutes of tanning? Like what are we talking about here, you know? So you can't even compare like the amount of sun exposure. But the real thing comes down to what it comes down to is that your skin is like ill-prepared to handle the sun, which is, yes, very intense radiation. You just are not built to handle it. Just like if you started barefoot running, your feet would get torn up. If you go on the pavement like the first day. But if you build up your foot calluses over however many miles of barefoot running, then you'll be able to barefoot run just fine. It's the same thing. Like think about your sun calluses. Like you have to build that up. And it's, and people will be like, oh, but then I'll like get wrinkly and I'll look terrible and whatever else. But like the reason for the, you know, the inadequate ability of your skin to handle the sun has to do with, well, seat oils, to think seat oils and then a lack of cholesterol. So those two points I'll take separately, but they're related. I mentioned before that seat oil molecules are inflammatory wherever they go, they cause inflammation. Well, the reaction that actually happens is called oxidation and oxidation is accelerated by the presence of light, heat and oxygen. And so if you have subcutaneous fat right under your skin and your cell membranes and your skin have poofas in them. So poofas are like the name for the oils that are in seed oils. Then when you go out in the bright sun, which is UV, it's very intense. Like the seed oils in your body are being exposed to the UV. So that rate of oxidation is going to accelerate, which means the rate of inflammation is going to accelerate. So you go out there and you go in the sun, you get red and you're like, oh, my skin, you know, the sun's bad. Well, no, your skin has like basically if you want to think about it, like little inflammation and magnifying glasses that are receiving the sunlight and multiplying its negative effects. So if your skin is free of seed oils, then your ability to, you know, handle sunlight without the inflammation from sunburn, that improves. And then the other thing about seed oils, why they're so insidious, it's not directly related, but if you eat a lot of your fat from seed oils, that means you're not eating a lot of cholesterol. The cholesterol is insaturated fats. And so cholesterol is necessary to turn sunlight like UV light from the sun into vitamin D. So like the literal chemical reaction is like UV light plus like this form of cholesterol, 7D hydroxy cholesterol, I think I said that right. That reaction then produces vitamin D. So if you don't have cholesterol, it's like, it's like you're trying to collect solar energy without solar panels on your house. It's just going to like heat up the roof of your house. So you need to have your little solar panels there to collect the sunlight. And so you eat your saturated fats. So that's another issue. And then perhaps the last thing also is that vitamin A is necessary for skin health. And so if you eat a lot of seed oils, well, I guess what? Seed oils don't have vitamin A, but all the fats that you should be eating like butter and tallow do have vitamin A. So if you're replacing good fat calories, bad fat calories, not only are you adding the presence of this inflammatory thing, you're detracting from the actual nourishing like vitamins that would be in the thing that you're not eating. So you need vitamin A as well. But yeah, that's sort of like double triple whammy of combinations combined with people don't adequately build up their sun tolerance results in their negative experiences with the sun. And that's why they resort to like crazy concoctions and chemicals like sunscreen. Yeah. Wow. That was fascinating. So for people listening that are like, okay, if I went in tan right now, I would burn. What is your advice on how to start building that up over time? Yes. So it's important to start if you're going to tan in a given day, it's important to start in the morning. Sun exposure both in your eyes and on your skin in the early morning or use a red light panel. So people have red light therapy because if you think about it, right, the red light which is naturally higher in intensity in the morning time from the sun, that's signaling your body. Hey, in four hours, like it's going to be strong sunlight out here. So like get ready to be able to build your melanin or whatever. So red light primes your skin to accept the sort of UV light that happens at midday. So yeah, red light therapy, I tell people to do this, they're going to go into tanning bed, like if it's the winter and they live in London, do red light therapy before you'll do a tanning bed. So tanning bed, are we recommending tanning beds? Well, I mean, if you live in London and it's the winter, then it's better than nothing. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it would be my preference to like flies to a place that's warmer with sun, which is like what I try to do. But if that's, you know, not feasible for you, then then yeah, I think it's better than nothing. I mean, people with sad, like seasonal, effective disorder, like what's the cure? You got a UV lamp. That's a tanning bed just on your desk, you know. So so yeah, if you're going to tan in a given day, you should start with red light. I mean, ideally you just go out in the morning for 10 minutes and then you pick like sort of, you know, the the medium intensity light, if you're just starting out, say 11 a.m. or like 10 30. And then you do, you know, five, 10 minutes, five minutes on each side, do like roast yourself, like a little, you know, rotisserie chicken. And then you do five minutes on each side. And then that's it. Then you do the same thing the next day, same thing the next day, and then you do 10 minutes on each side. And then you do 15 minutes on each side. And then you maybe go out at noon or 1 p.m., you know, and then you just build up slowly that way. So of course, doing all the food related stuff that we mentioned, stop eating seed oils and eat more vibranae and cholesterol and that that's all you really need. Yeah, I mean, I live in Southern California and I feel like my, yeah, I just, I mean, my diet is so healthy that I don't burn anyways, but I also feel like I, I think my body was just so used to being in the sun all the time. I hike every day, I walk the beach a lot, I'm in the sun a lot and I never put sunscreen on. I will say though, I do put sunscreen on my face. How do you feel about that? Like a non-toxic zinc face. I mean, I would prefer wearing a hat personally. Yeah. So that's what I would do. And I do wear a hat like, there is an extent to which like, yes, you want to tan and get the health benefits from the sun, but we don't need to be spending six hours like a day at like, you know, equatorial sun exposure during the summer. Like that's not too extreme. So again, like get some sunlight, don't sit in your fluorescent lit office building all day, but there's not really a need for you to be out there like for six hours. So hat, I mean, that's totally fine. I would prefer. So the other thing too is that like, if your eyes are blocked from UV light, then your skin doesn't know what the hell is going on. And so you'll be more prone to burning because like your eyes will like not be giving your skin the signal that like it needs to like produce the melanin or whatever to absorb the sunlight. So I would prefer to avoid, like whenever I go out and tan and stuff, like I'll take my glasses off, even even regular clear glasses, they block UV light, and especially sunglasses. Interesting. So I would do that too, but yeah, hats are great. I would not prefer to put, you know, sunscreen, but I think, you know, van man just came out with a talo balm and zinc, like, basically sunscreen, which is like what I would use if I wanted to. But I think I think the clothing is generally the best, like getting the shade and putting on clothing is the best way to avoid super intense sun if you're not ready for it or you don't want it. Yeah. Like if you're going to be on a boat all day, put, you know, clothing on, put a like linen shirt on. This is why God invented white linen, you know, like not only will you protect yourself, you won't be putting this like cancer's goop and you look better. So it's true. Yeah. You look fine. You know, you look cool. Yeah. And don't, don't kill, don't kill the fish also. Yeah. It's another thing too. That's a big one. If you're going to go out in the water and you got this crap on your, all over your body, like, and then, and then you're going to sit around and be like, why are all the fish dying? Why are the coral reefs that like, well, because you literally go swimming and like put your cancer's crap like right in their home, you know, exactly. And it's killing them all off. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a really big one too. Do you think there are outside of what did you say was van man? I wrote it down. Van man. Yeah. Are there any other ones? Like, what do you think about the zinc oxides? Cause if I'm in the sun all day, like when I went to Mexico recently, we were in the sun for a long time. Sure. And I was putting like a zinc oxide, like a non toxic sunscreen. How do you feel about that? Um, I mean, if it's so zinc oxide, I think there's two forms. One is like one is like the particles are much smaller than the other. It's like micro zinc. I figured what it is. One of those is better than the other. Um, and I forget which one I would have to, I would have to ask because I don't use this stuff. Um, one of those is better than the other. And then if it's just that, plus like your tallow or coconut oil or whatever, the carrier oil is, and it's, and if it's like a good fat, then like sure, go for it. Um, yeah. I mean, me personally, once again, still prefer the, to just wear the lid in. Um, and also like, if it's very hot, like that actually keeps you cool, like blocks, leave lid and stuff like people don't realize this. Um, but this is why like people in the, in the Middle East wear like the white, you know, you've seen like the white, um, I forget what they're called, um, robes for lack of a better term because it's so hot outside. So it's like, say 100 degrees, um, your body temperature is 98.6, right? So sweating and like being outside, like sweating works when like the outside of the air is like cooler than you. But when the outside air is like 100 degrees, like it's literally better to be 98.6, like, so what though, what the robes, the thick robes do is they create the sort of insulating layer where the air in between your skin and the robe is 98.6 and the air on the outside of the robe is like 100 or whatever it is. And so it protects you from the heat in this way, where if you were like bare skin, you would like, you would die, which is why they, why they don't do it and why they have white robes. Um, so it actually helps keep you cool. So what, how do they, how do they recommend? Well, I'm feeling really good about my recent linen purchases for my Mexico trip coming up. Nice. Nice. Yes. Very important. That's great. What's your favorite brand of linen? I, actually, I got this white linen shirt from this brand called Vitamin C, but it's like, I really, I love that one a lot. Yeah, it's cute. And I like the name too. Um, there's also another brand that I'm totally blanking on right now, Dish makes good stuff too. D-I-S-S-H. Okay. I don't know if this company makes women's clothing, but I like Alex Crane a lot. Um, Alex C, R-A-N-E, Alex Crane, um, they make very, very nice looking things. And then, um, also, Dandy Del Mar is also cool. I don't know if they have as much linen, but they definitely have like nice, like, beachy things. That's actually what I'm wearing right now. I saw it in a way. It was like the massive shirt that I'm like, I have to, I have to get this, turn myself into a massive ship. I mean, it's perfect. I wish people that are listening to podcast right now could see this. I was actually going to point that out before we got off because like, your shirt literally looks like the bag. Yes. It is a white, it's like, look at that. It's like art and white stripe, like knit cotton shirt. It's so good. It's so good. Alex Crane is great. Um, big fan of his heels. Those great shorts. That's what I wear as my swim shorts. They're like linen, short shorts, and like linen dries relatively quickly when you get it wet. So I just literally just, my shorts and then I just go in the water and then they dry. And it's like, it's great. I love that. All right. I'm going to tell my boyfriend that. Yeah, because most, most plastic, most bathing suits for men and women are plastic. And so of course, you want to avoid plastic if it's all possible. There are a few eating up in the sun too. Yeah. There are a, yeah, it's, and it's like clinging to your skin. You're just like direct injecting like microplastics into your body. There's a good brand that makes women's swim stuff, um, called a coiaswim AKOIA, a coiaswim. They use, I think most of their stuff is like natural fabrics. Um, they are knit most of them, but I don't think all of them. Yeah. They look pretty good. So they're very like, Bolly style. I love awesome. Okay. I'm writing all these down. Um, yeah, this is great. Well, is there anything else that we haven't gone over that you think is really important for people to know is, you know, in terms of what we talked about today? Uh, sure. Yeah. I think. Okay. Um, it's very important to understand that healthy foods taste good. Like, I think we already talked about this, but just, yeah, but it's an important reiterate it. Yeah. It's important to reiterate it. Cause like, not only like, okay, you, the listener, you have your willpower. You can eat your cardboard and like, be fine with it, um, even though the cardboard's not healthy, but whatever you can, you know, apply the sort of, you know, strength of will to make yourself be healthy when you're, you know, your impulses would otherwise tell you not to do that. Most people can't do that. And most people don't do that. That's why everyone's fat and sick. So the problem is not that they have some lack of willpower here. They're not bad people or whatever. Those very same people who lived in the 1950s would have been perfectly healthy and fit and whatever. Because they would just go to the food store by the food and eat food. And it was fine. Nowadays, if you're a normal person, you go to the food store by the food and eat the food, you're going to get, you're going to have problems, um, and it's very sad because people get so frustrated about this because they try really hard to like, lose weight or be healthy or whatever. And then like, well, whatever, I'll get back to that. So the issue here is that if you're going to try to be a normal person, you're not going to put in all the effort that they think that we as health people go crazy about. Like my friend, for example, he's like, oh, you're insane. I work 80 hours a week. I work in finance. Like I don't have time for this. Like congratulations. You worked 10 hours a week because you have a software engineering job at a big tech company. Like good job. You know, you can do all this stuff. He's not going to do it. So for those people and those are the people that I'm really trying to like reach, and I think we should reach if we care about the health of our fellow humans, those are the people we really need to get through to, we need to let them understand or, you know, make them understand that like the good food is not a sacrifice. It makes their lives better. Um, you know, it tastes better. It's more enjoyable. It's more filling. And it can be convenient, which is like, you know, there's not many brands like Masa to be fair. We're working on it. We don't have more products than this kind of thing. But I think the very existence of this kind of thing will be, will be game changing for people because, yeah, and then, and then to the healthy people, there's this point where like, I'm sure, I'm sure people are familiar with this. You want to be healthy. You can finally, you're like frustrated, you're like, I give up, you know, I'm tired of being this way. I'm going to go be healthy. It's a new restrict yourself. You hear about a vegan diet, you hear about a keto diet, you hear about a carnivore diet, and you're like, I'm going to, I'm going to enter them fast. I'm going to like eat 200 calories a day or whatever, a thousand calories a day. I'm going to run 20 miles all these things. Like your body's not built for that and you'll fail. I'm sorry. It's not a, it will power issue. It's like a physiological issue. And so what happens is then they fail and then they, you know, end up binge eating something bad for them. Like really bad. Like a tub of bedding jerrys or like in and out french fries or something. And then now they physically like feel good because they ate, but then they are psychologically feel terrible. Like they have this guilt, you know, guilt spiral that they go in and they're like, oh, I'm so bad. I have to punish myself even more by, you know, eating 800 calories a day and running 20 miles a day. And then they'll fail and then they'll binge again. And so it's like this restrict binge guilt cycle restrict binge guilt punish on and on and on. And that is no way to become healthy. Not only are you going to master psychology up, but you're going to kill your metabolism in the process because that's not how the body works. Like you or body will adapt to eat a lower amount of calories and you'll still get fat. You know, that's how it works. So in order to like for the health people to break free of this and for the unhealthy people to break free of the fact that they junk all day, they have to know that healthy food tastes good is more enjoyable and you can eat, you know, unrestricted. You'll be fully satisfied. You can do all that and still be optimally healthy. And in fact, that is how to be optimally healthy. All the healthiest people I know eat this way. I know plenty of people who like, you know, have, you know, that do all this restrictive stuff. They're not as healthy. All the healthiest people I know eat, like what we talk about. So I think that's the important thing and the only way to really show people this is like through demonstration, you know, you go to a party, you bring your good food, you bring your mouse chips, you know, of course. Or whatever, you show your friends that like, hey, this I'm a healthy person. This is how I eat my life's enjoyable so can you. And I think that's how we really like fix this whole issue. So that's what I'll end with. That was awesome. What a way to end. I mean, that was more people need to hear this because, you know, that's, I would say out of all the comments and DMs I get, that's probably the most prevalent that I get is a variation of people saying, oh, come on, live a little, life is too short. Or how can you do this to yourself? And also, I'm sitting here being like, you're, you're feeling pity for me and I'm over here living my best life. Yeah, you're doing fine. Like, I see your Instagram stories here. You're doing fine. I'm thriving. I'm like, I'm thriving over here and also don't ever feel restricted. I eat all the foods I want to eat, the food. I have a rule that my food needs to not only be good for me, but also taste good. I don't choke back like disgusting foods that, because I just, because I think like, oh, I have to eat this because it's healthy for me. No. Yes. I don't do that. And it's so kind of productive because like, it's, and then this is the real like the final, quote unquote, red pill here is that like doing that is actually how to be healthy because some people, oh, you're coping. You just want to eat the tasty things like, no, human taste as all animal taste evolved did evolve to find the best foods for us through taste. That's why you have taste buds. But like, if you eat artificial foods, the chemical engineers hijacked your natural taste mechanism. So, you know, you'll have, you'll find tasty things that aren't healthy for you. But if you're only eating things that are natural, as in like, you can take a time machine 200 years ago and find actual humans eating this. If you eat only those things, eat whatever you want and you'll be fine. I love it. Okay. I want to ask you one more question before we go, because I ask all of my guests this, what are your personal health non-negotiable? So, these are things that you do either daily or weekly, non-negotiable. Oh, wow. How long have you got? Or you can give us like a skim, but like your favorite, maybe your like top couple that you're just like, I have to do this every day for my health. Sure. I do not drink tap water. It's a good thing. No way. Yeah. I do not wear plastic clothing. And I do not eat food that is invented, like, you know, in the past 100 years. And I don't eat anything that's like not organic. And then the, you know, the last sort of minor thing is like, I think, like about 90% of everything that I eat comes from like a local farm, like, you know, within an hour from here, which is great. Not everyone can do that, because they don't necessarily live in a place where there's good farms in New Jersey, ironically enough, we have the ability to do this, the garden state for a reason, but yeah, like 90% of what I eat comes from like a local farm. That's incredible. All right. Please tell people where they can find you online, where can they find lots of chips? Really tan man. It's great name. Great name. As you had imagined. Really tan man on every social platform. And then you can find mosa chips, mosa, M-A-S-A, underscore chips on Instagram and Twitter. And you can find mosa chips themselves on mosachips.com. Awesome. Thank you so much. Also, I don't know if you have a code that you're going to, do you have a code? Oh, I don't. You have a code. Yes, you have a discount code. We just saved me a G1. Okay. Let's do it. Can we make it real foodology? Absolutely. Great. Perfect. Perfect. Great. I love it. You guys definitely check them out. Mosa chips are the best tortilla chip you will ever have. So try them now. Thank you later. DM me and be like, these chips changed my life. Also, DM. Really tan man. Let them know. And yeah. Thank you guys so much for listening. And thanks for coming on, Steve. And this was really fun. It's been fun. Yeah. Thanks, Courtney. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Real Foodology podcast. If you liked the episode, please leave a review in your podcast app to let me know. This is a resonant media production produced by Drake Peterson and edited by Mike Fry. The theme song is called Heaven by the amazing singer Georgie. Georgie is spelled with a J. For more amazing podcasts produced by my team, go to resonantmediagroup.com. I love you guys so much. See you next week. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider of patient relationship. I am a nutritionist but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.