Training Crocs! Inside the Mind of Reptiles | Reptiles With Podcast S04EP25 (REPTILE PODCAST)

I know he dressed up at Halloween. He is the real moon knight. This guy has l- like there's Daniel, there's Chuck and there's Mad Bio and I can tell you, I can tell you when any three of them are in the room. There's a certain face he makes. I'm like, oh shit, Mad Bio. That's my fucking podcast. You're so disgusting. Welcome back to the Reptiles with Podcasts. Hello, how are you guys? Good? Good? We're with fucking Crocodile's Chris, Mr. Chris. Yes. And Chris. Chris is in this fucking, Chris is. So we deal with Chuck once a week for a couple of hours. Yeah. Oh fuck. How do you manage him for so many days of the week? I don't know how much you guys work together and stuff like that. Oh fucking. We work together a lot. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. It's like the little brother I never had this guy. I'm so scared. Yeah. Oh my God. I don't know if he's giving sarcasm or something. No, bro. No, this guy, he's a great dynamic to the team. He's wild, bro, but it's the same energy as me in a different light. So it's really cool. Okay. He's a good guy. He has a lot of good ideas and it's very different. So I could see. But then sometimes, bro, really? Sometimes. I feel like it'd be more like this. Like this is the Crocodile. He's like, no. Cora, what it is, bro? It's when we're not with the Crocodiles and I'm like this and he's over there like this with his phone and he gets me in my most, you know, my most. I have pictures of all my coworkers and then I have a folder. They don't know about it. Just a full photo. They don't know about it. Yeah. Every time they kind of know. So I keep a whole bunch of pictures of them and I photoshop them in different places. I photoshop them in drag. I've got some different characters and shit. So whenever they try me and try to make fun of me, I just pull a picture out and then I make fun of them. You can put it on your resume. Yeah. Perfect. The photo shelf. Yeah, literally. He's got pictures of show me. Yeah. But then he gets me back. He does get me back. I knew funny as videos. We can play on them later for ourselves. I don't think that's. Were you the one that had posted on your Instagram the Cuban, the Cuban galloping to like dancing the tulips? That was fun. Yeah. Yeah. That was like a literally every time we go out there for the feeding, we're trying to cue the Cubans up separately to try and like assess their body condition so we can feed based on like what they look like. They're rather acting and there's a couple that every time we go in, they always do that. And it's more specifically like if we haven't from the grass in a little bit, they're more likely to bound like that because they just feel exactly like I got to come up. That's crazy. Yeah. It was literally with Daniel and we're walking in and I was just like, oh my gosh. And I ran and I ran and I ran and I ran with the food and I like jumped down to get that and I was so stoked. I was like, because it's one thing to see it and it's something to be able to like capture in a way that's not so like, I don't know, seems like you can really appreciate it. Even now, like to this day, people are still like, that's fake. That's so fake. I showed a couple of people and they were like, there's no way. That's terrifying. But like there's also like the photo where like you do this every day and it's like so commonplace. You don't think to like whip out a camera and be like, maybe I should take a picture of this. Maybe people would care about this and like, yeah, it's like actually like, yeah, no, people have no idea this stuff even exists as possible. Absolutely. So is it like on purpose that you guys have to match with your forearm tattoos? Yeah. Is that ever for work? No, he got that shit way before I even met him. Yeah, I started a long time ago. So it's a Cuban crocodile. We have a Tamistema, African dwarf crocodile and then the saltwater crocodile. And I always say I can never claim rights to like for crocodilian tattoos because I feel like, you know, with the internet, I can connect with some of my colleagues around the world. And I feel like it's just one of those things like we all have that same idea in our head of like, well, I'm not going to get the whole damn thing tattooed on me. So you get the head. So so many people you just went into like that. Yeah. Different species think fuck. I saw I didn't get an alligator because I've seen people with alligators and shit. And then I broke the law where I used to work at the spectacle with the spectacle. So that's why I got the most common. I get roasted on. And he gets roasted too. You know, just call them all alligators. Yeah. Like my coworkers, the guests and like the guests are so nice to you sometimes like, Oh my God, those are amazing alligators. I'm not going to let them be nice. And you're like, yeah, yeah. There's actually crocodiles, all crocodiles, name one alligator. And then still they'll be like, well, I loved your alligator tattoos. You know, like, damn. All right. Listen, so if you open your fucking eyes and then I feel like it's really easy for people like when they're coming up to talk to me about animals, like, well, damn, that guy definitely doesn't like the lemurs and the sloths. He likes to crocodiles. So it's very easy for them to kind of assess like, all right, I kind of think I know what this guy likes. Pretty easy, pretty easy. Yeah. But yeah, where I wear my passion on my sleeve quite literally. Do you have a favorite tattoo necessarily by like Croc? I guess he's one of the four. It's really hard because even when I look at my arm and I like to think like, Hey, we can make it harder like currently working with or in general general. In general, like general overall. I think I know what if I hear this guy say or no go again. What do you think he'll say? Let him think about it. This guy whispering. I'm right here, bro. He's a good whisper. Okay. He's a good whisper. Yeah. Well, you know, sometimes people like a mouth. What's that mouth? Oh, man. It's like, when I think of one, I just think of like the other trades that I like or the other crocodilians and like, it's an ever growing list and ever expanding. Right. I feel like underrepresented, understudied, not so much knowledge and love. Oh, we're fucked up. Okay. Keep that. Definitely. There's no the rest go extinct. I'm still I'm still going to have to go with Timistema. Okay. Timistema. I knew that. Timistema. I don't know what it said. Because it's just like, you know, they're only in so many collections and like in the field, they're so understudied because of like their behavior. Like they're such a like how people always say the American crocodiles like a timid, more shy species. Timistema is a very elusive crocodilian and they get huge and they look so cool when they're little and definitely dream species to work with. So then and then I think of like, you know, the status they are with the population, the you know, just their whole biology. I think they're super cool. But then I think of like the Cubans as like number one for a while for like a me, but ever changing. I think it's a strong. Yeah. I say to Miss. But then I go, Oh, no, listen, this and this. But yeah, I guess to Miss to for myself personally, just in like of all things. Have you ever seen one? No, I don't know. That is every moment. Hey, Rascal. I never, I never knew there were so many types of all pythons till I met, you know, some of the breeders, even I say the same thing about like horses, you know, question people up in a caliber like, no, that's this type of words. That happens like, damn, right? No, no, no, no. Look, look, look, I saw this, I saw this meme where it's like, if you can tell the difference between these and I swear four brown fucking horses, then you can tell the difference between these, a yellow rat, a milk snake, a fucking like black, kind of black racer. And I was like, okay, okay. Look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look at like, but I see four of the same animal right here. Hell yeah. Makes sense. I don't know. But yeah, so much some of the false Gary. Okay. So it's like brownish. So the ones without the fricking nose thing. Exactly. Exactly. The color in the patterns is so unique and just, they just look insane. I've never seen one in person, but I've seen photos and the babies look like fucking leaves. Yeah, the closest ones to here would be my friends at Zootampa. They have a huge female named Sunda and she's actually target train based on a visual cue of this blue and white target stick. My friend Jason led the training and then now Pete and Jasmine do that stuff with that to Miss Sima, she's giant and like, you know, she comes over like a, coming in hot and then she comes right and as soon as she makes contact, she waits and then she gets her food. So if you're lucky and you catch her on the feeding day, you can really see. That's fine. I was pretty mad on the stick. Oh, yeah. Just go to the egg lake. Her exhibit too, it's like the perfect design because it's like, you can kind of see her, but it's like far enough to keep all like, then I would say like the normies. Yeah. I'd like to save enough distance. That's the problem too. Like with crocodilians, you know, you're like, you want to get people close, but you don't want to let them get too close to like general public kind of contact stuff. Yeah. Okay. Do you have a favorite crock yo? No. Hey, can you name five crock? No. All right. No, right. Hey, right. You got this. I'm Cuban because I'm Cuban. Hey, nice. American because I'm American. Five. Salt water. You're running out of Miami. Oh, fucking do it. Do Caimans count? Yeah. That's crocodiles. The fucking the cuviers. Is that one of them? Yeah. Um, fucking not the white came in the black came in. There you go. That was great. That was a great thing. There we go. But okay. So I took a deep dive into your social media. Okay. Okay. That's why I did this one. So I saw an old old photo of you playing guitar. Okay. Oh, you were. I forgot about this. Nothing. Okay. This is the thing for me. So I am baby into the reptile community. Okay. I've been doing this since like 2015. Before that, I was a musician. Oh, yeah. So I am super excited when I find other Hispanics in the community and other musicians. So I want to know how you went from like metal playing band into this reptile thing. Or was that just something that you did the whole time? That's a great question. So like growing up in Florida my whole life, like- They're both hardest fucker right now. Yeah. No, I'm not. I'm literally somebody came to work. Somebody literally came to work the other day and I was just trying to make conversation and I was like, all right, I don't want to judge a book by a scurro. But bro, you look like you're in a band or you're in a band. He's like, no, everybody always asks me like, damn. Dude, that's the thing. There's a guy that came in here and he was like full of tattoos, nice, long black hair. And I'm like, dude, you have to do music. He's like, I just moved here. I'm in a band. And I'm like, yeah. I see. You know, you know one of your kind, bro. Yeah, one for sure. I see. Hispanic and I play saxophone. It doesn't count. I don't care. I don't know, bro. I don't know. The faceless put the saxophone solo on the last recent album and then a couple of people. So you're just going to like heavy, heavy shit? I mean, I feel like, and that was the thing I was going to get like the greatest part about where I grew up in like rural ass Florida is like, I kind of got to, it's like a cultural melting pad of like all these people. And so like, and that means all the music too. So like, you know, the good old like old school country, but then you got like the rock people. You got old kids and then you got like the electronic and like all that encompass like I kind of went through like obviously like we all do in our ages different kind of taste and music. But get to the point of it, I played trumpet when I was a little jit and then I tried to play drums and I remember the defining moment as I was trying to play drums for my friends and I was like, what was that song? I'm like, I don't know what the hell that was. I was like, what the hell? So I was like, if they can't recognize it, I remember my friend would play songs and his guitar and every newt he's playing. I'm like, well, I'm just going to play guitar. Guys, this is wonderful. Yeah. I remember it was like eighth grade year, I transitioned to guitar and then from there it's just like, you know, you're going through life as a young teenager. I was like, oh bro, the heavier the better, the heavier the better. And it was just like that perfect time because I'm an old old man. I graduated in 2010. Don't even bro. I'm 2012. Okay. Okay. I'm an old man 2010. Well, we were just talking about people working out. They have like a marking job or something. I remember what the title is. Anyways, they're like, yeah, I graduated 2016. I almost fell out of my chair. That's me. I was like, bro, that's crazy. But yeah, I've always played music my whole life. But then getting into the scene, it was more into like heavy, heavy music. And then all through the years, I kept playing and playing. And I remember there was this distinct moment where I worked at Disney as bartending and I was like, dude, I hate this. I don't want to do this anymore. So I was like, what do I want to do? And I was like, I like working outside. I like wildlife, Florida wildlife specifically. So I just applied at Gatorland just because they have, you know, it's outdoor job, wildlife. And that's where I got my foot in the door. And then as I started that job, I really started to focus into more of like, you know, what was at that time like the reptile side of my job. I was like, well, damn, I can't do band stuff and work stuff. So I just kind of, I left the band. I was in. I love the band. I was able to focus more on work, which meant more work, more experience with what I was focused on, which was the reptile crocodilian stuff. So yeah, I was in, last band I was in was Monotheist and they're assigned now to, gosh, what is their record label? Unique leader records. Okay. And so yeah, really, really great band. I love all the guys in the band. I've always wished them the best. And technically it's called technical death metal. But I mean, the EP that I was a part of, you know, their songs are just heavy slam and then their songs, they're just full of riffs. So yeah, man, I just love music. I love playing music. I had a similar thing where it was like, so I was after, this guy started dating. Yeah. Hey, that's awesome. You're out. You're out. You're 13 years band. After high school, I joined a band that was already touring. I started going on tour with them. We got signed to victory records. Okay. Before, like the whole of data remember shit started happening where a data member is like, I'm going to sue the fuck out of them, right? Like while they were fucking crazy, the fucking owner is big ass crackhead. Yeah. So it was fun time. Yeah. I'm there to sing that. No. But yeah, so whatever. So I was on, like I was going on tour. I was doing the whole thing, you know, just in the process of touring through the like the first record that we released, I realized how much money you don't make doing metal. Right. And that's, you know, at that time I just started getting into turtles, you know, and like my first turtle season, I made more money than I did ever in music. Yeah. And I was like, dude, am I really going to be like busting my ass to play with people that I hardly fucking like, because I just met them right out of high school. You know, sacrifice, like the longest tour I went on was three months, right? And two and a half months into that tour, my, she's my wife now, but my girlfriend at the time and my parents came to visit me in Jacksonville. And like I saw him and I realized how different they looked. And it made me realize the passage of time. Yeah. And I was sacrificing all this shit for that. And I said, fuck that, dude. So I pretty much, yeah, put the music stuff a little bit in the back burner and really like dove deep into reptiles. That's what's up, bro. And every journey is different too. And I mean, I think of people like Wes, who's, you know, now in Louisville, that band is super fire, but like he went through such a transition of life where he just left that behind and now he's back into it. But sometimes I feel like the industry kills the love of music, which is not what anybody wants. And I went like almost like three years without playing guitar. Yeah, it sucks. And then, but that's how it makes people feel sometimes and you don't want that. And I totally feel that. And that's what I tell, you know, my friends and everybody all times like I would love to be in a band again now, but it's because I want to just play. I don't, I'm not interested in touring. I'm not so interested in like the marketing of the promotion. I just want to play to have fun. Yeah. I just get, I'm not going to lie to you. I get, the thing is with music, this guy's laughing over here. The thing is, we're going to get into, I'm going to tie it into reptiles, guys. I was going to say when it was like, oh, the industry kills the music and I'm like, wow, like reptiles. Yeah. Hey, there's everything. Yeah. It's like, it becomes, I have a little bit, every musician has a little bit of narcissism, a little bit of ego because they're like, I want to be the best. I'm going to be the best, right? So like that was the thing for me where I was like, damn dude, like whenever I invest a little bit of myself into music, I get like really like, egotistical about it. And that's something that I had to like admit with myself. I'm like, hey man, like you get obsessed with this. True. You know, like you get obsessed with like the success. There's nothing better than the smell of coffee in the morning. Okay. There's also nothing better than the smell of reptiles in the morning. Psych, reptiles with coffee. That's the smell you want. The strongest coffee. All right. We have it for you. You don't know over the description or go to coldbloodedcaffeine.com and use the code reptiles with to get your reptiles with coffee today. Do you keep any reptiles other than the? Go ahead and like, go ahead and like motherfucker. Go ahead and live motherfucker. Go ahead and live motherfucker. Go ahead. You can tell he's very passionate about this. It's the ego. It's the ego. We wrote them all the time. He has a sandbow. No. He has a sandbow. Sandbow is a fine. My has a crock skin. That's okay. You have a crock skin. Yeah. But you just did it. You just did it. That's a fucking problem. They live in my house, but they are not mine. They're not my pet. Nice. That's good. That's good. They're not mine. They're not mine. But the reason I say that is because like- There's my association. Yeah. I guess I have two lovely docs since the wiener dogs. No riptoes. But that's not like a thing of like I don't like reptiles. I've just since you know 2012 now in 2023 it's been nothing but working with reptiles. That's actually interesting. So you pretty much jumped into the private zoo quote unquote sector. So what is like your view on the general pet trade? On the pet trade, that's a really good question. So I feel like it's a double edged sword just like the internet. You can really facilitate a lot of education and like because the whole goal is to like we don't want to preach to the same people. You know ourselves. We want to reach a broader audience. So how you do that is bringing all these random people in and just be like oh damn I think the turtle is cute and maybe their mom or dad doesn't like that. But then eventually they had transitions into then they want to work at a reptile shop which then leads to working in a zoo. So with the pet trade, I feel like there's good and bad just like anything, anything bro. Whether it's medical field. Like the medical field exists because people want to profit off of people's problems. There are people who want to help people and there's people who want to make money off of people which sucks. And so with the pet trade, there's people that want to help animals and people who make money off of animals strictly for making money. So I feel like you know as much exposure as you can get great but it comes at a price. So it's where you have to take a look in the mirror and be like well am I helping this problem that is created? You know everybody's life is different but if you're facilitating, you know breeding an animal that you know people can't take care of and you're selling it because oh well I make money off and there's not my problem anymore. We're titulating pie pie. Yeah exactly you know like those are the type of things where like damn well now we're messing up. So yeah like I feel like there's good and bad just like anything. But for me personally if I get to good because then it's a way of like for the people that or I say people are like kids or younger youth that want to come to our facilities and talk to about animals or be passionate but don't have the means to work at a zoo but want to work with animals that's how they do it is getting their own collection and then you know that transitions I knew I know a lot of people that you know consult with the zoos because their private collection is better than the zoos. That would be a lot. Yeah like literally like there was one of my colleagues that works at Australia Zoo just messaged me like a week ago asking for Sammo. No. No. I'm saying they're like what you're doing in there. Good shit. I've logged immediately to Sammo. No they messaged me their reptile keeper at Australia Zoo and they messaged me asking about tortoise the Aldapford tortoise incubation and like breeding programs and I was like hey straight up. I don't know anything about that. I'm not even a lie and I'm not going to tell you to go to this site or let us set by no people that have great success with Aldapras and Galapso I sent her in the red direction and just so happens the private sector and so it's like you know those are the you know I wouldn't say they are pet trade but they're in their own lane that is created through all of what is in compass with the industry so yeah good and bad good and bad. He says that he's like oh I want to I work with them for years I want to distance myself from them but really it's because you've been working with hoss and crocs so you're like what can I really keep what would you do hey. You want to keep them? Go ahead and lie. Anything I want to keep that I could get like here or just legally legally. In general. Yeah with my permits. Yeah yeah I'm permits. So what permits don't you have? So here's the kicker I can I think I did the math I could I could hit my hours for my permit every six months something like that so I could apply any time I want my problem is that I'm very cheap and I refuse to pay the state of Florida and more money than I already pay them in speeding tickets. Keep it fun. And talk on wood and talk. So encompassing that I don't have my permits like in my hand I am on the state of Florida's list because I have got my permits in the past and I work with all these class one class two class three animals but if I got my permits and if I had the proper space I still honestly question myself like would I actually want to get like you know an African dwarf crocodile because yeah in the moment it's like oh my gosh I have my own dwarf crocodile but then am I taking away from a genetic pool for a breeding program that actually needs it and am I am I causing a rift or am I going to help in the long run for people that can't facilitate those breeding programs. I've said I've said multiple times that wild caught animals are not pets. Yeah I don't belong in the hands of people that are not going to do anything with them. The fact that we're taking them out of the wild causing them to be biologically dead you can make them biologically alive by breeding them in captivity and trying to at least if not supply the pet trade if you're at a level where you can go ahead and provide enough care and enough like actual high level observations or whatever you can go ahead and possibly involve yourself in reintroduction programs and the fact that someone can just like buy a let's say an African dwarf crocodile just because they want to and they have enough money to and they just can you know that's like wow damn why wouldn't you breed the wild and if it's different if it's captive or because that's like yeah that's your pet. Fuck it. You know that thing's never going to go back out there anyway. Fuck it. Because it's to get something like that it's usually captive born but even then it's like there's not that many of them as it is in the field so why not keep that bloodline where it should stay if that makes sense. Okay and it's not that they come from the wild for the wolves. So if I was going to keep anything there would definitely be an African dwarf crocodile just based on the fact that I can facilitate that animal you know record lengths is you know it the biggest is like getting close to six feet and that's the biggest and so I feel like I couldn't come to that but that being said I would literally utilize my whole backyard and it's a big backyard but I would need all my fencing the proper you know water supply and I would have indoor outdoor shifts. I have everything to be above and beyond for that animal but then that being said to I always think of like the longevity like I'm never going to have kids. I don't want kids. I don't want to leave that animal behind to somebody I don't know you know I know I know like Daniel I know all my coworkers but like do I want to drop something of that important onto them because yes you know like for me and I care a lot about you know obviously all the animals I work with so like to get of like owning something like that it's like I just it's a lot of responsibility and so for me it's like I don't know that's that's a lot of thought. So it was like I don't know what I'm saying like because it's a good thing because I think that Joe Schmo random person goes on Instagram finds a page like yours or like yours sees somebody with a big following that has these animals and they're just like I'm just going to get one. We see you know but that's the thing you know and I think that people need to have that kind of foresight with an animal like that because it's not your average iguana. It's not your average leopard gecko like this is something that can be dangerous. This is something that needs space to grow properly. Yeah I know it cooks up in the already on this but adding to your point do you think you have an obligation as an influencer quote-co? Because you are just posting and you know showing these animals off to people that you have an obligation or are responsible partly for people going out and kind of keep these animals. 100% 100% that's it's a big part of like when I'm posting things it's not of like hey look at me it's like hey look at this animal and why you can learn about it and not so much of like hey everybody should get one and I always like I in the back of my head every time I post something where like I'm interacting with the crocodiles where they're like you know grabbing the front of their jaws or I'm like you know in in Chandler's video I'm like I'm like touching the back that we're not because I'm like if I do this and is somebody else going to go try and recreate this now even another family and like and like bro is that going to be because of what I did you know or like I post a video where you know I'm hand feeding and now somebody else going to go hand feed an animal at their facility because they saw me do it like the amount of people that come in and it's like oh is your Asian water monitor is nice or your monitor is in general nice it's like okay now you saw a nerd video last night no yeah yeah no for sure I think I saw I said to them today it was some old dude oh I guess trying to move an alligator and he goes and he just grabs a sweater and just throws it over his face and he's like I got this he just walks behind it and like goes to like jump on it is an old dude doesn't it is it the one is it where he's in a ditch yes yes so the craziest part about that that dude's actually a really like well respected veterinarian no way what is he doing it's just it's just it's one of those things where like you we always say to people when they talk and it's like oh how do you get this job or like what do they look for if I want to work here is like with reptile keeping reptile keeping I'm just like Crocs they want experience more than a degree versus if you want to wear primates the one or degree in psychology so getting my point that dudes it you know a very experienced veterinarian at no point are they teaching him like all right you're gonna jump on an alligator like this yeah and even with like FWC like when I worked previous facilities like they would come you know use our alligators to teach their employees how to you know catch alligators because they don't know and they don't want them not to learn but they don't do it all the time yeah so and even that being said to like I always tell Daniel like in all of the guys understand like never get complacent in like how you think it's gonna go like oh I've done it this meant this way this many times it's gonna go the same way every time that guys probably done that once or twice before but everything is vital so like the angle and like I just was a bad day for him man bad day for him for sure you got you got to know your limits you got another your limits 100% so he was just trying to don't be a hero man yeah don't be a hero you know need yeah and how many people are gonna like watch a video of like one guy doing that just mildly correct and is able to do something and they're just gonna be like my turn yeah try that shit through that 100% I don't know give a fuck everyone fuck them so because whatever you do people are gonna try everyone you know what's funny what's the funniest thing so working for from a retail perspective with like bearded dragons on this way obviously most of the time we'll keep babies together because they're still young we're providing them enough food where they're not wanting to cannibalize on each other whatever sometimes up to three in a cage and someone will come up and be like oh can I keep multiple in a tank and I'm like no it's best to keep them separately it's like oh but you guys do it and I fight that urge to be like yeah well I'm a professional another for you it's my job to literally make sure they don't need each other are you gonna be sitting here all day behind a register waiting for them to like feeding them and all this stuff no you're not you're not yeah so keep them separate because you have to go to work you have to go to fight go away from them though it's like y'all do it though and it's like it's my job to do this it's my job to do this properly I get paid to do this right if you want to support us head on over to modern reptile shop dot com or in the description where you can find our merch and the best part is is that a percent of the proceeds from the merch gets donated to conservation one more time that's modern reptile shop dot com or head on over the description he keeps calling you Daniel how does that feel it is the first time that somebody calls you Daniel the way whenever I go somewhere to work I say it's my name yeah yep yeah bro the fuck I look at what we call him Chuck no I've already told me he I know he dressed up at Halloween he is the real moon night this guy has like there's Daniel there's Chuck and there's mad bio and I can tell you I can tell you when any three of them are in the room there's a certain face he makes I'm like oh shit man by there's a time where I'm like Larry's yo Chuck what the hell Chuck come on now and I'm gonna stop killing him yeah I'm gonna go to work somewhere I say my actual name and actually it was crazy did they have Brett I met Brian Barchick I met him oh yeah yeah it's trippy we have a picture together and I yeah we have a picture together did and you didn't know we didn't know we were gonna work together no but what rather did we didn't know was it like an us situation where we were in the same video one time the Miguel video or were you guys like oh that's when you met we met okay we were in the same room yeah like we were in the same room like so you just show up to work with you're like oh fuck no no no no no no okay so when I was gonna know the other place he left literally he left a week before I got there yeah like a week before I got the he leaves I go in oh my god it's like a love story yeah it is I hate this so much listen listen listen listen and then you know the bitch that I'm fucking like right so the bitch I don't fucking like started bitching and then I'm like god damn it I wasn't allowed to do certain things then I wasn't able to like do certain things with the alligators and stuff and then I started breaking the rules but how am I gonna break the rules if I don't know what the fuck I'm doing I got nobody to like reach out to so I had two options I hit up Chris Gillette through the end and I will talk to him and ask questions and then this guy was working down the street so I was like oh shit I remember meeting him and then our other co-worker Peter still worked with me so I real hand we're talking whatever then Peter leaves and works with him and then I go yo I want to go visit yeah I was like oh I want to go visit so when I visited I saw them doing one of the shows with one of the alligators bro they literally ask them to come up ask them to hold touches to the alligator just stay still they do blood draws like they were doing like blood draws and shit like that and then like they walked me around show me all the animals that's when I saw the first broads now which is fucking good and then like from there I'm like okay how do you do this how do you do that how do you do that so from him and listening to what he said that day I went back and I taught myself how to do like certain like a couple of the things then two years after no like a year after I got a text from somebody like yo you want to get poached and I was like take me out I'm gone hell yes that's not happened it is a love story yeah that's crazy and I always I was when we see Daniel post this stuff with the other place in the other animals me like hell yeah bro like it's cool that because I never believe in like gatekeeping I hate that shit like everything should be like knowledge to everybody okay and like everybody should get my hours every in terms of like training because I feel like sometimes when it comes and I feel like crocodile in training is still like such a new thing in the in terms of like the zoo world and so like I feel like sometimes people want to like hold back or like this is my thing like nothing since it's life-threatening you know yeah yeah but it's like within each other it's like oh we can make things easier for each other for example like I got you can jump on top of a crocodilian and like you a whole bunch of shit but you can also ask them to walk wherever the fuck you want them to go and like little things like that you should teach other people within the field now if you're doing like wild shit I'll go fuck that's on me no but I feel like that's what he means most of like there's important things you can train like the blood draws that we do of course where's that so bro you literally he when we do a show he's usually the one in the water I'm the one talking on the mic okay he literally calls the alligator over ask him to come up ask him to hold I can go behind the alligator pick up his tail pull the mother fucker he's gonna stay still and then I like do is put pressure with my hands or keys or something so that way even kids we need a blood sample all we have to do is ask him to go to hold get a needle in he's already used to the pressure get the blood out anywhere else you get on top of them force them down and like do all the extra shit where we make it easier for the animal first thing and then for the first one was last year we had to do for the first time last year we actually had to get a blood sample from them and that's all we had you know you know it's funny I remember we'll start I remember being in high school and my biology teacher I think I was like freshman year my biology teacher was like so we talk about brains he's like so this is the human brain it's all wrinkly because we can store information more service area more information boom cool wish more and then he goes this is the brain of a crocodilian and it's smooth as hell and he's like this animal is stupid all it knows is eat sleep die you know and I'm like damn okay and then I go into like the reptile stuff after that and like wait a minute this thing's like understanding human words where the wrinkles on his brain crazy you know and it's like well that's that's insane does that like negate like us having wrinkles and being smarter because obviously crocodilians are super intelligent yeah if like physiology is always different from you know reptile the reptile and I feel like a comparison of a mammal to a reptile it's a huge jump so it's like apples oranges like you know respect to the teacher but like there's two two way different you know entities and like the amount of neurons in a human brain compared to crocodilian brain are probably very different but the structure of the crocodilian brain is much different than ours like the cerebral cortex being enlarged of like crocodile specifically makes them so much different from the alligator brain but they both in that same facet I mean like it's it's incredible how much they use of that brain like the study they did with the saltwater crocodiles how they can actually literally shut down half of their brain at a time so it's like sleeping one eye open the unihemous fear of sleep it's like literally they did it with these crocodiles based on a study for months and it just like they never skip the beat bro like it's just I'll do that. I mean the net dose bro. I never know. Species specific but I did see one instance at least I think I don't know if all crocodiles can do this but they can like shut off the extremities of their bodies and like either in times of cold in times of formation where only basically the brain and the heart work correct that's it nothing else works. They're all talking about some better than others like gators are the best at it. That's crazy because of how cold it gets yeah that's insane that's so cool. I wish I could do that. Settle this. Airplane mode for humans. Are you guys that feel like I would hate it. I think it's what I feel like when I go to bed bro. Is there something a vegetable on command like yeah. Is there anything that you see like on social that bothers you that people do. With reptiles. Yeah with reptiles I mean like you that you're you know working with training these animals is there anything that you see that you're like yo stop doing this shit publicly like it's going to make the situation bad. Pretty ball by thoughts. No. Let's go with the ball by thoughts. With my stuff with crocodilians I feel like it's the it's like what what what are your intentions behind the content you're getting like are you doing something to to look crazy or you're doing something to facilitate like a behavior even if it's just for like the animals enrichment like that's what sets it apart from like are you just trying to be stupid because you know it's going to get like it click bait you know yeah that's the stuff where really. Will get on my nerves morning but that being said I'm not stupid so I know what they're doing they know what they're doing. So like and and it's not so much I can never I will never control what anybody does but when I see that stuff it's like man like you know you know what effect that's going to have on people and like you know how they're going to perceive what they're seeing so like if if you're showing something in a crazy manner and that's all they're going to think versus like you show something in a calm you know in a different manner of the of the animal it's going to be way different that kind of stuff will work me for sure but I mean hey at the end of the day. You can do whatever they want. I guess when it's me too like personally like I've had people come and film like a whole training session we do with an alligator. Great questions they're asking nice stuff they're filming the filming and then the session ends and we're just hanging out and then I want to swim with the alligator and I go swim with the alligator and then all the training that we filmed is out the window because what they want to post is me swimming with the alligator and the alligator jumping up and then for me it's like damn well what what were you really there for were you actually interested when I was talking to you about or was that were you waiting for the whole time and then later on I always say like I never under arrested me the power of like the internet Internet forever people's opinions you're never going to change them and it always you're so always going to come back to you so like that being said that instance with that filming I remember at the time I felt a certain way like damn like well hopefully you liked what I did and then later on it came up where people are being like hey look at this what I saw like that's what I was going to ask you did you get you get shit for stuff that no because it's something that we do and it's not it wasn't like I wasn't supposed to do but what happened was it changed somebody else's opinion about like us before they could actually meet us you know I'm saying yeah so it's like they're only they're forming their opinion off me based on what they just saw so like if all they see is me you know swimming they didn't see the training stuff so then they're you know first thing I want to say is like oh damn like look at this so I didn't get in trouble because it's again something we do but what happened was it just like it started the dialogue for a conversation in a different manner than it should have had to be because of you know somebody's perception that's a big thing with social media's perception everything is devils in the details so like little things matter whether it's you know the facial expression you make like how you're talking in the video so anyways yeah that kind of stuff what about enclosure do you think people keep crocodiles correctly oh man you can be honest bullet yeah the podcast about honesty and this is yeah yeah it's facilities um I so I've been a bunch of places I have not been to all the places I wish I could say I've traveled the world to see everybody set up but I haven't but I really feel like you know you can facilitate an animal in a proper way based on what they need and that means everybody's different just like people every different everybody has different tastes different what you like different so when it comes to crocodilians keeping them in like a zoological setting private sector setting like you can do it right but are you gonna do it right like or are you gonna do it because you you need to walk into the door kind of thing yeah yeah so like so me I have seen it where it's done really nice and it's done you know like as close as they can but then you know you step back and you think about like the saltwater crocodile like in the day and tree river like they're traveling almost sometimes like a mile and a half every day up and down this river so like are you gonna be able to facilitate a saltwater crocodile to swim a mile and a half every day no but does that mean you should shouldn't have them I don't I don't know I can't I can't be the judge of that so when it comes to keeping them there are people that do a good job of it but that being said there's people that will do a good job with one and then just trying to recreate that same thing for the rest and that doesn't work for the rest but then that being said to you have different species yeah there's people that do the work to that like literally travel to these countries to like observe their native ranges and they're like well what am I missing and then like great example St. Augustine alligator farm was having a hard time breeding their Indian Gary oh and they went to India talked to Jeff Lang one of the leading biologists there and he's like oh you guys need like a sand bank 10 feet high you need sand that was it they literally put a sand bank in and they put a heat element at the top and they put heat elements underneath the sand and the Gary elade like literally that next season and they were the first zoo in the US to produce Indian Gary and then so yeah it's a big deal they only just like you guys got problems come on yeah so so like it worked out at work you know we we we have a couple pairs of like crocodilians and the one that we just got recently was this big giant male from Zuma Emi the orinoco and we really want to breed the orinocos and so Daniel did a lot of research on like literal like the the habitat and like nesting literally and like everything ice look biologists that had get the eggs and shit sound the evidence I found the fucking evidence ice I sent it to Christian I was like Christian this is what we need yeah and then then after that was like okay that's not in our hands we have to ask so I literally was like okay I really got to ask yo y'all don't have to do shit me and Christian will do it yeah and they're like okay go ahead we can set it up and now we're in season yeah and that animals enclosure was already great for that pair but then once Daniel did like the actual homework of like substrate sands embankments like all the variants too because they're not all the same too like in that range so like once you figure that out and we got the green light to go ahead like we transformed that exhibit just with literal sand it was so simple and I already saw a change in the behavior from male and the female based on the sand and then we added more sand so it's like you know we so getting back to the question it can be done properly but you just have to do your homework and you have to you have to go above and beyond even if it's like it can work make it work better yeah make it work better very cool that that pair for example I last year like a lot of people have a problem where they lay in the water nobody knows why is all issues let in the water will crocodilians all lay different and then doing the research what I ended up learning is alligators in Florida build nests crocodiles or the or an uncle build burrows why the fuck the difference you see Florida's fucking land close to water where the alligators live cypress knees who the fuck is digging through cypress trees they can't so what do they do they build a nest instead bring a whole bunch of sticks build a nest put the eggs or an uncle crocodiles lives in a river wasn't a set of the river it's like a beach it's a sand so they don't have to there's not enough sticks to go around and pick up so they dig a burrow onto the sand now bring that animal into Florida they would leave them in whatever enclosure you made they can't dig through the fucking cypress knees but that's all they know yeah they're not gonna think let me pick up some sticks that's not in the in their every ocean so they have to ding and we saw her try yeah we saw her try from like we went crazy yo she's trying to dig she's trying to dig she couldn't get through so she ended up laying in the water last year that was last year yeah yeah very interesting with that said are so learned so smart that said you think thanks man you think after we see his regulations are enough man it's honestly no honestly no and I think it's just because they they cater to that like they want to be fair kind of thing so then when somebody says well I can't afford what that guy can afford they say well well damn well what what can you afford you can have the animal exactly exactly exactly exactly so I feel like they're not enough and I feel like honestly like I've seen situations where like you know again I ain't trying to get any kind of politics of anybody's job and but like it there's people out there that are doing inspections not how they should be doing them and not not for our stuff like I've seen other stuff you know so like in terms of regulations like there should be even more like why why not go above you why not make it even more and more and more just that way you can just everybody can be on the same page versus like well I try I did the minimum and it didn't work well if you would have done the maximum then it would have worked no matter what no I feel like stronger regulations for a crocodile and specifically great crocodiles are fucked with a regulation yeah you know what it has to be yeah he just has to turn around and not touch the walls no that's fucked yeah and it a lot of it's to is like perception of like normal people like they don't people care more about fuzzy animals because they empathize with them versus a reptile they're like I don't like reptiles you know I remember there's a keeper I talked to he's like yeah we literally did like a experiment like just for like a social experiment you know they had a problem where people are always complaining about this one in mammal not having the same amount of water every time well they check to see if anybody care about the snakes enclosure with the water nobody said anything yeah so it's like you know the regulations are heavier on other stuff versus the reptiles they're like hmm whatever yeah you know yeah 100% I had a someone come in today talk about feeding a boa and they're like oh what do they eat I'm like oh rats rodents and they're like no the poor fuzzy you know rats that's a gather cute you know I get it she's like no I'd rather let the snake die then have to feed it to the rest of the and in my head I'm like this snake will be your best friend for the next 25 30 years if you take care of him never biting you once that rat like granted rats are nice so at some point but if I give you the right right now yeah I'll bite the shit out of you yeah I don't know what's going on sorry yeah oh you text me yeah it's like not about my say no I guess bit if you're listening to this you're a reptile lover all right and what do we all need we need supplies so we got you covered head on over to imperial reptiles calm and use the code reptiles with to get a specific discount special to us and our listeners for your reptile supplies today one more time that's imperial reptiles calm use the code reptiles with so as far as as far as training do you think training within different like lizards and crocodilians is it different or can similar things be replicated with like let's say you're training some kind of crocodilians can you can all my time I'm not following no man but can you implement something similar that you do with the crocodilians that you'll do with the monitors or iguanas as long as it's all relative within their natural behaviors and body movement like you can't you can't have a one thing one of our co-worker Peter says you can't like measure the intelligence of like a or the problem solving of a fish on land because it's on land you know so you know with with with training maybe a monitor or crocodilian can't do the same thing as a monitor based on their the limitations of their body movement but there's a lot of it that can translate just based on simplistic things like the target training visual targets that can be implemented with any animal has eyes okay like our monitor lizard max the big black throat monitor he does great with his target to where he can like call him out target you know up and down the walkway no no no lead or nothing and I feel like there's some of our crocodilians that we need to shift them I don't have to like look if I just need to move one from one enclosure down there's some I feel confident enough I would just be able to target you them in okay you could you could translate target training to a lot of animals like I've seen a lot of really cool training so so a lot of the animal training pages I fall on Facebook where like they do some of the coolest training with like literal like chickens and fish and goats yeah like it's it's insane like and these are training applications that I would use but they do like fish and chickens and goats so yeah it's it's it's a broad I mean it goes everywhere the method of it goes all around the method we use is it can be used with like whatever animal or whatever it just depends like the limitations like you said like crocodilians their eyes on top of the head into the sides they can see right in front of them so there's some things that they're not gonna be good at for example if you try to feed a crocodilian they're right in front of them with a piece of chicken you might get bit yeah they can see right in front of them with a monitor like max if we try to feed them with our hands he knows yeah he can go sideways enough to see and he goes gently yeah because it be the chicken the crocodilians opens his mouth his eyes are facing fucking back yeah and this is whatever falls in type of thing I wanted to ask a question do you think that like having a lack of fear in humans is a sign of a higher degree of intelligence or of low intelligence lack of fear I know some animals like they're so dumb they have no idea they're even in fear they have no idea they're scared but like do you think that we make them more stupid by like removing their fear I don't know his thing I got mine because I already knew that was coming I don't care that's a good one you got me there all right so lack of fear rating intelligence higher or lower of humans man that's hard that's really hard because I feel like to a certain extent maybe the animal sees more than we do if they are putting trust in us you know I feel like you know with yeah yeah well I mean I know that's like her face to like yeah I mean but realistically like at some like our supervisor he always says like you know some of the vipers are different you know based on which ones they are and like you he always says like the mama you can literally see them thinking and like working things out so like with the fear thing with humans like if they don't show fear maybe that's because they're that intelligent they can work things out of like to assess the situation versus if we work the fear out of them I don't know maybe maybe the aren't as smart because they should fear us more heavily but that being said to you if there's been a lot of situations like with wild animals where you see interactions where they're strictly wild animals but they have the cognitive ability to assess like shit this is this human is trying to help me right now you know yeah where I've seen you know I've every seen the videos where they're literally cutting like nets off of dolphins and you can see that where there are still their wild mind the instinct is still like be scared but then there comes a moment like all right let me just assess what's going on already yeah yeah so as far as like intelligence taking fear away man I don't know it's tough I think about ball pythons a lot me too and like I'm like is this animal stupid because it's not afraid of me or does it like no quicker that like or not in any pain I'm there's no I think that that's out of like years of breeding I don't think that makes me stupid though I don't think it correlates I think it just makes you use to us yeah like I feel like the interaction with us does not have to go with fear because even us we live life through experience this motherfucker was scared of everything at some point and then he ended up trusting them and not being afraid anymore it's just like what the animals experience with us so the crocodilians yeah we've taught them to come over we get them some food and stuff like that is that stupid no I feel like that's intelligent enough to understand if I approach food comes after yeah it's just kind of memory yeah you're you're it's like a different programming in a yeah you just change it up but in the wild that's not gonna happen most of the time they're just gonna swim away and be scared but if you get that same animal out of the wild like some of the alligators we get are like wild alligators have become a nuisance they come in scared of shit from the beginning once I see the other ones getting food out of our hands they go fuck that shit I'm hungry as fuck well and then they come over and you can train and do things I feel like that's intelligence yeah that's stupidity even though it can end instapidity if it's the wrong people because then they get too comfortable with somebody that's gonna kill him or something then you're fucking done I keep a crocodile like that's cool excuse yeah okay I have training questions yeah yeah so mind you not I don't need to stop peeing on the floor no I'm gonna be all over so I have something Gwanas alright one of them tame I can pick her up if she's like nice oh yeah the little one yeah the bigger one or Rhino iguana I can pick her up she moves around but she's not trying to bite me she's just like active she lets me pet her like it's cool but if I come into the cage with food she just goes crazy so where might be a good place for me to start creating that disconnect like yo like yeah there's food with me but I'm not like giving you the food right now like you're fucking crazy right now dude like how do I if I want to if I want to get it to like something where I'm gonna be target training her for feeding if I'm gonna be doing stuff like that like where it might be a good place to start honestly it's it's because you don't want the connection the correlation to be like the interaction equals food every time like variable variables in the train you're big you know like because if if you're going in every time and they get they get no food from it then every time they see the food they're gonna act a certain way versus if you start the interaction like normal like picking it up and then you introduce food as you're already you know started with you know the hands-on touch okay then it's like a alright he's coming out and now I'm gonna get the food some animals are always just gonna be foody though too and I feel like it's just time time and like the more time you spend the bet the more things you learn based on the animals posturing like like maybe just sitting there for a minute letting them get a little food and then picking them up not letting them have food they kind of be like alright I got what I wanted I'm gonna let them have what they want and then go back to you know the food because the end of the day that's the end of the two training is all based on positive reinforcement at this point whoever says negative reinforcement works is literally a caveman like it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard they'll never that's yeah it's not a thing it's not a shit yeah exactly it's not a thing it's not a thing so with your guanas man like if if if if if the foodie you know foodie thing is is happening then just start the interaction in a different way but but introduce that food with that interaction that way it's not such a separation of like okay chill time and there's food time it should be like maybe both okay I haven't worked with Crocs but with monitors usually I will usually hide the food yeah before I interact with the animal I'm hiding the food I think if you want to put a plate like in a bucket and then bring the bucket in with you come out and start to associate the bucket with food yeah but like you'll put the bucket in for the first couple times she won't know that there's food in that bucket so you'll interact with your like oh this is cool and then you go ahead and reach the bucket feeder it's like whoa cool I got food nice yeah with the monitors I'll usually if I want to interact with them outside of the cage I'll use my fingers like lead them up so that they're like there and then I'll but I'll be hiding the food in the back yeah like I'll either put on top of the cage I'll hold it behind me well and then I'll go ahead and introduce the food now on the other hand I have a much younger rocket bottom right where he in the cage super flight okay he will take food out of my hands but he like gets the food run to it so when I do get a hold of him I try not to be super aggressive but what he is in my hands he's trying to bite me and I know that people are saying oh you have to desensitize him you have to just touch him all over the place and whatever the fuck but I don't on that negative reinforcement thing like I don't want to create a situation where he associates me with automatic stress just for my satisfaction to desensitize him how can I create a positive situation where I am desensitizing him but I'm not like stressing the fuck out of this dude got you so I mean if you take if it takes the food from your hand and you want to get it to the point where it's more chill that out I feel like you're already got a great step it's coming up to you taking food and I mean like you know we always say with the guests like no animals no people like being pet in the face that's just general so like with handling they're not going to like it obviously at first it's if they feel like you're going to eat them or whatever so it's just something they learn over time yeah and I feel like we always say with any of our interactions whether it's with the you know the modern lizards with the crocodilians ending on the positive is such a powerful impact with the animal because their retention like for their pattern recognition like the memory the sessions the best session you get are five ten minutes because the capacity from to experience and remember all that is within that if it's 20 minutes of stress then you've lost all of the good within that understood that time so yeah so with if you want to take steps forward I mean you you've got a great you know one to with the animal coming out for food so just have it come up a little bit of food and then as it's you know trying to buy you wait for that like even if it seems like so minimum like one or two seconds of calm that one or two seconds of calm and then reinforce with food over time with the repetition they're going to correlate like yeah this kind of weirds me out but I get food when it starts and then when I chill out I get more food and then you know the chill that behavior you know just again for like five minutes you know once chill out a little bit more food and then go back with little more food and then so eventually over time it'll just automatically won't even correlate like negative more of like oh wait the food foods here foods here and then when I you know I get the food I usually run away but now that we're in the future I get the food I am in the hand kind of don't like it but then I'm getting more food and then when we end you know we get even more food all food everything's revolve dry food bro yeah I will say with all those she's predicting what the fuck you're about to do so it is yeah because if you give food the same way every single time she knows the time she knows like they catch up to that yeah easily like for us when we are trying with a big alligator if we go in there doing show time he knows what the fuck time it is if you go in there to clean I don't know how the fuck but he sees us with the he sees this motherfucker with a rake me with a broom doesn't give a fuck yeah he just stays in his fucking corner and he's jelly if we go in with our book it he's like book it yeah yeah yeah yeah he knows there big me oh like on land if you go in there to show motherfucker just looks at you like shut the fuck up I'm not doing shit walking with a bucket on land stands the fuck up now do whatever you want bro yeah whatever you want yeah I was gonna I was gonna say it probably doesn't work with the larger car conditions but just take it take the bites yeah she'll learn eventually yeah she'll learn to make sure that like hey the bites aren't working you want me to get bit by the fucking rhino go on the human the human rock honestly yeah that's true we'll learn eventually this doesn't work I'm not trying to get by anybody for example yeah but she knows she learns she's like if I try to bite this motherfucker let me go our rule we have for example if we got a crocodile and it chases you don't fucking let that shit win like if you have to get the fuck out of there but a lot of times you stay it tries trying to get you what you stay it's like you're trying to get me to go the fuck away and I'm not like oh yeah I can see that yeah it's like oh I'm trying to chase this motherfucker goddamn it he doesn't go away so what do you do you just run wait you just run and wait yes wait yeah because the more you reinforce that running like if they learn so fast like oh when I come up like this with my mouth up out of the water and look scary this guy runs every time so they're gonna do that every time yeah so versus like the first time they do that if you just step to the side and you I wouldn't say stand your grounds not the right word but you just wait a little longer like damn it didn't work like great example my my good colleague in India so him he worked with the Siamese crocodile that initially it would just always come up like a hundred miles an hour like not not a literal hundred miles like 110 percent this crocodile come up on fire and after like three or four sessions the crocodile realized like dang that was that was a waste energy it was a waste of time I just come up a little bit chiller a little bit chiller so yeah there's definitely a lot you can say this motherfucker I haven't done it haven't seen it much but he trained crocodiles to chase and stop at a certain spot that's cool dude yeah like okay so yeah quaso Leslie quaso Leslie Clio my supervisor I did I trained all the crocs to do it so it actually became like you know almost too too many cooks in the kitchen a little bit you know yeah I enjoy it this is a big pond they're all in the same pond he's supposed to be one at a time imagine all of them so yeah so it'd be like we have the little more let's come up and then we have the Nile come up and then next thing you know then the bigger more let's come up and then the west African crocodile comes up and then it's like all right well now I got too many crocs up here but I have enough in my bucket yeah yeah yeah but even that and it's not that much land too so if it just teaches you you have to jump and then there's two entrances so what if one comes from this island yeah yeah so he did it he did that shit to close things off real quick do you think that these animals get enjoyment from this training it's a good one I feel like enjoyment enjoyment I feel like is is uh it's hard because I never like to say that they're not capable of emotions but they're never going to reciprocate affection oh so I feel like the level of emotions they feel are different than the level of emotions they feel but they can feel things like they are bonds they make with mates there are obviously times they become territorial so as far as like enjoyment I feel like there is a lot of stimulus that goes into it so like the training you know whether it's just the movements like swimming a little bit quicker and coming up on land and utilizing their muscles that that could be in German in terms of like natural behavior like when we feed our big whole prey I can see how excited some of the animals get because it's like we we got a big frozen you know 25 pound rabbit we thought out we feed it to the crock it's like you know we we give them a lot of stuff but when they get big stuff like that is it the it's it is a different animal and it's obviously food is as we talked about big thing with them but I can see there is some sense where there is it enjoyment I don't know which really enjoyment so with the training I feel like there it's it's a positive interaction whether or not it's true like enjoyment it's hard to say so is the training then selfish not that it's like only oh me myself at the expense of the animal no is it always like oh I just want to do this there's no reason that I could do this without a negative connotation yeah yeah that's fair that's fair so I feel like with the training the way we do it it is still based on what the animal wants so like with the big alligator stuff like if he doesn't respond to something then we don't we don't do this session if if the crocodile if we go to start something and the crocodiles acting different we don't do it or if you know if behavior or you know behaviorally the animal isn't driving with what we're going for then we don't do it so I feel like the training is for the benefit of us and them but at the end of the day it is still up to the to the animal which sounds I mean to some people sounds kind of crazy to think like oh we're letting them decide but we really are like all the training cancel shows daily yeah so if you're in the middle of a show then and you got two people both of you guys are working the show do you guys I mean obviously there has to be some kind of chemistry there but are there like signals that you guys tell each other we literally say it oh like you're like yo we don't want to do this you today have a mic he doesn't know but I'm saying like if he's trying to tell you like yo like today's not the day for this like how do you he goes hey talk stop it we really i feel like we openly communicate that like we don't like there's no like uh there's no like we don't like do like a ear tug or anything I feel like we are just really uh transparent with you know each other but more so even like the guests like I'm not gonna try and hide what I'm saying to him from the guests because what I'm gonna say to him is exactly what I'm gonna tell the guests like we're not doing this because this happened or like in the show like if look on the mic if i'm on or like he's in the mic and I'm like yo this crocodile doesn't want to do this he'd be like hey everybody this crocodile doesn't want to do this so it's not we don't really have to hide anything from anybody and so when it comes to doing the shows it's just very transparent very you know and that's a big part of communications like yeah he's always watching me i'm always watching him in terms of like the show but also in respect of like the animals too so yeah yeah i mean do you get any booze no booze i was like boo fuck this make a good job you make a good one for the most part yeah i think i think the way we present it's all in just like we talk about perception it's how you present something so i always think of like if i just came here and i had no idea what the hell was going on how would i want somebody to explain to me in the simplest terms but also the terms of like the straight facts so we literally say you know in the in the base root of it and to get the point of like people getting upset like we're not doing this because the animal doesn't want to do it and if you don't like that sorry like you can talk to him about that and i think i've only had like maybe two people ever like make it like a problem and it was more of a problem in fact like oh i've been here before and then you've not done this and i always say like well hey if you really want to see something like that then you can just go on youtube go on google if you really you want to say it again come back another day i always come back the winter when they shut up they're like no i'm good it's cold yeah so i don't i don't think i've ever gotten a boo but definitely some people i'm be first i feel like there's only ever two people that get like chuffed but most people the way you present it it's is such a simplistic but like very blunt terms they're like that makes sense like that makes sense okay that's fair you know that's fair you don't want to do it if he's on land we literally put signs if he's on land we're not even gonna do it like that's it the end we're not gonna force him in the water we're not gonna call him in he's basking the end no show let him do his thing yeah yeah for sure i feel like with without like whether it benefits it benefits them because of course they get food stimulus if it was any other zoo it's just like food falling right next to them that's fun yeah like having food on a ball they're not like exercising that is yeah bro literally i've seen this facility one time bringing crocodiles and then the crocodiles muscles are falling to the sides and they're like they just looked odd you know and then they literally out loud said well you know they're captive animals and that's why they look like that and i'm just i sat there and i'm just like what do you say this motherfucker just said that's where they're saying capture with his back literally at that point but then you look at some of our like if you go through different facilities you can see how these animals benefit from more yeah so like i feel like animals i know i asked a question sorry not to interrupt i know i asked a question but i i also think training like adds a part of enrichments yeah because they're like whoa this is different this is something new there's uh there's a an instance where a zoo they had a Komodo dragon and i really liked this because in the wild the konok dragon cells sometimes eat ox and they obviously can't like like a rabbit like fling the ox around and swallow it all the way down they have to start tearing and ripping and using like the whole body is to basically rip chunks out and so what they did was they staked a rabbit into the ground yeah right and just forced the Komodo to kind of like rip at it and kind of take it off the stake and it's like yeah that's that's fire yeah that's dope it's a little bit it's not training but it's like hey that animals get a little bit more working but it's still like still their body because the training is for them to work their fucking muscles yeah like how can i incorporate that in my ball python keeping oh you gotta stick your zero yeah the rack is already a zero but you got to stick the bananas to the ground for you right now just hanging from the cake yeah i mean all about like iguanas for example like different branches textures because a lot of them whenever they grow their nails go sideways you know so like if you want them to look how they should sand or bark like different things so that they can step in different things and sometimes sand gets their feet to dig down so they have to lift themselves up that's muscle working so i think one thing too if you like i would ball pythons is because you're talking about that i'd be like sometimes people think like oh i have a ball python so i have a enclosure why not have three three different enclosures they're all you know each one is empty and you can just shift that animal based on seasons or how that animal is acting that month or based on like if it's ovulating if it's egg bound you know like or just just different habitat it's just like that's so expensive that's fire though it isn't you know like it's simple stuff goes a long way so like to have a ball python in one setup it could be really nice but then think about like okay have this habitat but then next month i want to put the ball python in a more dry arid habitat the next month i want to put the ball python in a more like burrowed habitat bit traveling i think that the the thing that people would think is like oh you're stressing out the animal with that stuff you know it does but you're just you're saying that that could be beneficial in the sense that you're giving that animal different kind of enrichment different kind of ways of using the muscles yeah yeah for sure for a snake if i if you know as far as seeing like how could i how could you help like a ball python and as far as like doing that kind of stuff that's the first thing came in my mind you know so i i can't make my ball python's you backflips you'd be surprised about the thing you never know you never you know something i love that some people do um tying it back to your favorite animal the samba some people when they set them up they'll actually put like a little tiny little dish of sand yeah the samo can just like go in and just like bury himself i'm like that's so cool you're giving them a little bit more i always tell people like if they get a big enclosure i'm like oh it like for a water monitor that's like oh put another tank in there yeah put another tank in your enclosure so that he can have some space for water yeah or even with burrows it's like hey give your animal another tank underneath that layer of substrate so it can burrow through there yeah it's you have all this other stuff for the rest of it but they can burrow through there you know and it's i don't know people just don't give enough they don't want to put the effort it too offensive it's been offensive yeah and like go away by you the fucker and that's why i don't have any reptiles hell yeah this is i know i have like hands brights brights Bye.