Courtney Storer: Chef and The Bear Culinary Producer

Hi everyone, I'm Hilary Kerr, the co-founder and chief content officer of Who Up Where, and this is Second Life, a podcast spotlighting women who have truly inspiring careers. We're talking about their work journeys, what they learn from the process of setting aside their doubts or fears, and what happens when they embark on their Second Life. Today, I'm joined by Chef and the culinary producer of The Bear, Courtney Storer. The FX TV show The Bear rose to immediate fame when the first season premiered last summer, and just last week, the highly anticipated second season dropped on Hulu. As the culinary producer on the show, Courtney consults on everything from the actor's knife skills to how to believably move through the kitchen and even puts some of the industry jargon in the scripts. Often praised for its uncanny accuracy, it's no surprise that Courtney herself has many years as a chef under her belt. After an early career in HR at UPS and Whole Foods, Courtney decided to pursue her passion for food and enrolled in culinary school. In there, she spent years working in the kitchens of famous spots like Verju in Paris, an animal here in LA, and eventually became the culinary director for the Italian-American hot spots, John and Vinnie's. There, she spent six years growing the business into the iconic institution it is today. After spending the majority of her career in the intense environments of professional kitchens, in 2020, Courtney took a step back from the restaurant world and began work as a private chef. It was during that gig when her brother Christopher called her about an idea he had for a show, which would become the bear. But I'll let Courtney tell you the whole story herself. Now, on Second Life, it's Courtney's store. Alright, Courtney, are you ready? I'm ready! So Courtney, on this podcast, we'd like to start at the beginning, so what did you study in school and much more importantly, what did you think you were going to be when you grew up? Wow, well, I went on to college to study psychology because I loved working with people. I would say like very young though, I knew that I loved restaurants. I was fascinated by them. I was fascinated by like commercials about food. That's probably like the earliest thing where I was like not as interested in what was on television, but like the commercials. I remember Matsuaroa six or like Totino's pizza roll, like just a action show. I was like, I need to find that food. I've been food obsessed since I was very young. So I would say like, I had an inkling about my interest in food that started first before anything, but I loved people. So I was like, okay, like, psychology's what I'll pursue. I had kind of like a family system that was very complicated and quite a bit dysfunctional. So I was like, maybe I'll work with kids and be a psychologist. That was like the first thing I thought professionally I would do. I didn't even think that those little visions of food I was having could be a career. You know, it's so interesting because I do think that there's been this sort of inflection point in part because of social media where now all the sudden kids understand at a much younger age, just the sheer scope of what's out there in terms of work and that these things that inspire us when we're little could actually be a full-blown career. I mean, I felt the same way. I spent all of my like money from working at the gap, buying magazines. Like I love them so much. It didn't even cross my mind until I was halfway through college that there are people who make these magazines and you could be one of them. So fashion and all of that have obviously been a part of my life for a long time as I alluded to working at the gap as a young person. Did you start working in the food industry at a young point or was that something that was more a theory than an actual practice? Yeah, I mean, I did. I think my first job was at this restaurant called Sonny's, which is a small family-owned business. It doesn't exist anymore. They've rebranded and opened it as something else. It was where my family and I would go for any sort of celebration and I was obsessed with it. And my family used to be like, where did you go? I would be like, I'm going to the bathroom and I would explore and I'd go into the garbage area. I was such a weird kid, but it makes so much sense. I had this inner curiosity. And so as early as I could, I was in high school. And at the time, my mom was a single mom and I was constantly worried about money as a kid and I was like, where can I get a job? You know, I went to Sonny's and they had remembered me from coming in all the time and I said I was 16 even though I was 15 and back in those days, you could get away with that. They weren't really checking your ID. They hired me as a host. I just absolutely fell in love with their entire family because it was family-owned. Their grandmother would come in and stuff the canolies every morning. Wow. Yeah. Like, afternoon, I would come in and she would be there. And I'd be finished cleaning all my stuff. I was a host. I'd barely anything to do. So I'd always wander in the back and, you know, I'd pick up the piping bag and start filling with her and she would teach me that I was doing it wrong every time and she'd like, forget it. Go back to your station. But I just, I loved her so much and they would let me work there over the summers when I had, you know, an open schedule and I went from hosting to serving and then I would be making the salads. Like I had a food interest. I just was always discouraged from working in the back of house because of the financial like difference when you're working on the line versus being a server. You make faster money, you get cash every night. It's very different for cooks. So you study psychology. Did you apply for jobs in that world? Did you start thinking about alternatives? Like what was your post-college work experience like immediately after? Well, you know, I wanted to go on to like higher education, but financially I didn't want to deal with applying for my masters or figuring out how to pay for it. I needed to start working right out of college is really how I felt in the situation I was in and I was lucky to go to college and make it through. So I was just like, I need to like survive after this and I put feelers out and a friend was basically like, look, I have someone who works at UPS. They have a really established HR department and you had a psychology degree. HR is a very natural job to get out of psychology. And why don't you apply at UPS and I was like, UPS, well, that's nuts. Like they wouldn't want me to work there and I actually took the advice and found out they had amazing benefits and applied and loved my experience at UPS. They have a big culture of starting from the ground up. And when you come in as, you know, someone off the street that takes these positions in the higher levels, whether it's HR, marketing or whatnot, they really put you in the hub and put you into package handling and loading and unloading trailers and you've got to be in the training program and really see what the job is like. You can't really just come in and that's awesome desk. Yeah, it's incredible and I learned so much about leadership there. They have an incredible training department, learning and development, all of that. So I was there for a while. I stayed for six years and worked my way into business development in sales. I was like working in downtown Chicago and like the legal sector trying to switch people from FedEx to UPS with my charm. And I still am obsessed with UPS. So you spent six years there. What made you decide to start doing something else? And then also it was like food still percolating in the background. Were you cooking at home, like what role is food playing in your life during these early career days in corporate America? So what's really interesting is, and this is kind of crazy and I don't usually recommend this, but I always had two jobs. So even at UPS, I was working at a restaurant on the side. I was obsessed with restaurants. So after sunnies, I never really laughed. Like when I went to college, I always had a job on the weekends in a restaurant. I worked at shavis and I learned how to carry trays and margaritas and do the whole thing. And during UPS, I worked at Natalinos, which was a restaurant that was opened by the same place who opened Mr. Beef, the restaurant in the bear. And I just loved their family so much that no matter how hard I was working during the week on the weekends, I would help them out at Natalinos and it just didn't feel like worked to me. I was completely mesmerized by the pace and the hospitality of it. And when I worked there, I really felt like I was a part of their family and I loved the smells and I loved the escape of it. And so I stayed in restaurants hard time while I worked full time. So yeah, I stayed at a restaurant and then I moved on to Whole Foods in California. So I moved outside of Chicago to Northern California. What was the job at Whole Foods? So Whole Foods, I did HR as well. So the funny thing is when I started working there as an HR person, I was around food all day. So I was in heaven. I would just like go on my break and talk to the people in the seafood department and be like, how do you break down that salmon? And I'd go to the meat department and be like, what's a ribeye? I had unlimited access to the cheese department and all the cheeses they sampled. So on my break, I'd go have a little snack and then I'd go to the bakery and I'd be like, what's that, Brad? And I wasn't heaven at Whole Foods. So what kind of skills were you learning during this point in your career? Because I'm obsessed with the idea that the things that we're learning right out of school or right when we start our career, we don't always realize like how they're going to have direct application to our lives, but I'm wondering if you can identify some of those things that were critical learnings, either of what to do or what not to do or what you liked or what you didn't like. Yeah, I mean, definitely between UPS and Whole Foods, there's very different company cultures. And learning a company culture takes a lot of patience because at first you want to come in and you're trying to prove yourself, you're also trying to validate why you're there. You made the right choice. I'm great. But I think, you know, it takes a lot of patience and persistence in new places like this. Whole Foods, I had a really positive attitude, but I really had no idea about their ethos. I had no idea the big contrast they had in HR structure versus like what UPS does. I had to really make the jump and know that I didn't know what they were doing and how they were doing it. And sometimes you think, you know better because you bring in a certain set of experience. But the trick is to be patient enough to know how that experience applies in your new current environment and to like bring that out. Timing is everything. So I learned to be a little bit of a chameleon to listen a little bit at the beginning and really evaluate, you know, what's going on before feeling like I needed to like exert my opinion. I feel like a good learning for many areas of life and many different types of careers and relationships and all of it. It never hurts to observe before you insert yourself into whatever is going on. Yeah. So at what point did you start thinking about going to culinary school? So this is a funny story. I was in the prepared foods department and I was like always in the morning, I would come in early, which is something I've always done. I like to get to work early. I would go in and check in on how everyone was doing in prepared foods and you know I'd see how they would be prepping something. For example, the baked salmon that they do. And I was like, wow, you guys baked that for a very long time and like, what if you did it a little bit less? And like, what if you put the mustard on after and like, why are you asking us all these questions? I was like, oh, no, I'm just curious. And at one point, the store team leader came in and was like, you know what, I've noticed something about you, kid. And I'm like, what is it? And he's like, you love food. Like you're so Italian. You love food. Like, you know, why aren't you a chef? He was like, look, there's a culinary school, literally two blocks away and they have night school. Like you should go and just take a class and see what it's like. And I was like, oh, man, how am I going to fit that into my life, you know? And I listened to him and I went and I met a chef there who just really inspired me. I was sitting in class and I was like, this is exactly where I'm supposed to be. Like I felt it in my bones and just regretted that I didn't do it earlier. And I was like, I will do anything to make this work. And I knew that I needed to stay at work to be able to allow myself the opportunity to go to school at night. And that's what I did. So I kind of burned the candle at both ends, which I was kind of used to. But this time it felt different this time it felt like I wasn't just treading water, but I was climbing up a little bit into this new awareness of a career that I knew I kind of wanted to pursue, but didn't really have the mindfulness of how to get there. And I think that's really important is sometimes you're like, I see this thing in my peripheral. It's there. It's been there. But I don't know how to get there. And we all feel like that even still currently I have that. It never really goes away. But once you make a little distance, you're like, oh, okay. Yeah. I see where this is going. I mean, the right traction. Yeah. So tell me what school was like at that point because I think all of the food lovers have these ideas of it. It feels very romantic. The reality sometimes matches that sometimes it doesn't. It's different for every situation in school and person and all of that. But what was it like for you, Courtney? Yeah. In culinary school, you learn very quickly that you have to work hard. You're no stranger to that. Yes. Exactly. But there's a tangibleness to it that is very different. It's not sugar-coded. And literally you have to sweep the floors and clean and take care of things with such diligence and attention that you're not used to in your usual life. You know, for example, the care for ingredients all the way to the care for a cutting board or the care for a dishwasher. And there was just like this micro insight from the first day that I was really excited to be a part of. I also think I learned that it's not like you can walk in and just charm your way through it. You have to put in the work. It is not something that in UPS, in my sales day, I could go in and be like, hey, let me have five minutes or whatever. It's like in cooking, I couldn't be asked. I had no knife skills. I was not fast. I like envied that certain people were picking it up faster than I was. And I felt like this little turtle at first. And then I learned so quickly I soaked it up as sponge and all of a sudden I was like off to the races. But I'm so glad I didn't get in my own head. I mean, I did to a certain extent. But for a while in cooking school, you're really bad. And that goes into being in restaurants. It's been a long, slow process of so much dedication and effort and days where you're not doing it right. Are you mess something up in culinary school? I made a soup. I remember I gave it to the instructor and he was like, this is in sepid. This is like the worst soup anyone's ever made. Get it out of here. And I was like, oh my god, chef, I'm so sorry. Like I was mortified because it's like, you know, everyone hears it. They're not like trying to protect you or your ego. They don't care. It goes bad, too. That's why you're here as to cook and you just did it wrong, 100% wrong. And those days were hard because I was competitive and I've always had this really tough perfection thing in culinary school. I was like, okay, you're definitely far from perfect and you got a long way to go. But you got there. You got through school and so you were working the whole time and then doing this at night. That feels like a lot. It feels also like you were probably comfortable with that level of chaos. At what point were you like, okay, I'm going to walk away from whole foods. I'm going to move to Paris and I'm going to keep working in this world. So it's interesting, actually, I was so effective at the HR job that I had a lot of downtime. And so I would be like, blah, blah, blah, blah, like get all of my stuff done and then I'd sit there and I'd be like, oh my god, I'm so bored. And like, I remember I like dozed off and I like got up. I looked at the clock and it was 10 a.m and I was like, you know, I am not going to do this job anymore. I'm like, I'm done. It's 10 a.m. I literally have no more work. I was like, what am I going to do the rest of the day? Yeah. And I looked at my bank account and at the time I had like $900 in my bank account. And I had just for the first time gotten a credit card and I looked at like a one way ticket to Paris because my professor in culinary school had advised he told me I was like old. At the time I was 27 in culinary school and you're like, you're old. You need to make up for lost time and I was like, geez, thanks. That's not old, you know? He was just like getting under my skin and I think he was trying to pressure me to do something nervy. And so he was like, look, if you can get to Paris, I can connect you with a few shafts out there and we will get you somewhere and you can just stash. If it's staging or if you can work for a few weeks, great. But that's for free, right? Staging is for free. Yes. Times are changing now. Like in California, if you stash, you usually get paid for it, but back in the day and my day, staging was what you did to really learn in a way where you're not a paid employee, it takes a little bit of the pressure off in some places. Like you can go in as a comi cook and just help like put away vegetables, increase your food knowledge, you know, peel garlic, kind of observe and watch, learn a few techniques here and there at the cooks aren't too busy. But so I'm like, how am I going to do this with $900, but I had a credit card. So I was like, okay, I'll go for two weeks. I was like, I have a paycheck coming and then I knew if I quit that I had vacation time. And so I looked up this flight. It was like $590 to Paris. I booked it and I was like, oh my God, I have to quit my job. I'm literally leaving in like three weeks. It was insane. It was like so out of my character, like this is not like me. And I went into the store team leader and the managers and I was like, guys, I'm so sorry. I just did something weird. And they're like, what? And I was like, I'm going to go cook in Europe. And they're like, oh my God, what? It doesn't mean you're quitting. I was like, yeah, it does. And they were like, no. And they were just so sweet and amazing about it and very supportive. And I called my brother. I called Chris and I was like, dude, I just did something stupid. And he was like, no, that was like the smartest thing you could have done. He was like, go get out of here. And I sold my furniture and everything and off I went. So did you have some stuff set up? So well, yeah, essentially there's a huge fan of Vergeau. And I knew a chef who had worked there and he was like, no promises. The chef wrote me back and was like, look, like show up when you're here. Let's see what we've got, you know, nothing was totally arranged. But then I had a list. And I was like, you know, I will sit on the doorstep until I find a job. I have always been eager that way. And so Vergeau was my first stop. I remember I was so nervous and like practicing my French in my head. And then the chef came up and said hello and knew that my front was bad and started speaking English. And I'm like, oh my God, he's American. And so he was an ex-pat who him and his partner, Brayden and Laura, they were the owners of Vergeau and they gave me an opportunity as a co-me. He was basically like, let's see how it goes in 10 minutes. And I caught myself really terribly. I didn't want him to see it as bleeding all over the place. It was just like the worst case scenario. And I was like, if I can survive this day with this like thumb in half taped with masking tape and I'm showing eight cases of peas, if I can get through that, we're good. And I did. That's intense. So what was the plan from there? Did you have an idea of how long you were going to stay? What you were trying to gain while you were there? Was it just like see how it goes? And ultimately, what did you do while you were there? There was not a great plan, but the plan became that the first day seeing the ingredients, seeing the produce come in, seeing the cook's technique and then break down fish and lamb and make the desserts from scratch. And all the details I had never seen anything like it. And I had worked in a lot of restaurants in the States, like whether, you know, it's front of house, I was still exposed to a lot of restaurants and loved food, but I had never seen anything to this level. And I just wanted to be there. And I was like, I don't care if I peel garlic and clean these onions for you all day. Like I just want to be around everybody because osmosis is very valuable. And I was just like, if I have a fly on the wall, I'll take it. This place is incredible. The food was delicious. And I just wanted to be there. So I think the plan was just to take it day by day and survive. There was like a cook the first day who quit, you know, got into an argument with the chef and didn't come back. And so I got by and like the skin of my teeth to like get a job. And there wasn't a job job. But I just like was able to stay. And I was like, okay, each day is an opportunity at what point did you start to think? Like I should probably get back to the States. My best friend was getting married and I really got to a place where I was really lonely, but I had finally started to make friends. So in the kitchen, it was actually a crazy situation that brought us together. There was a kitchen fire. It kind of brought the team together. And then I was like, oh, we're friends now, trauma bonding, but we became friendly. And I remember that was the hard part is I finally got my groove. But then I was also missing out on things and felt really detached. My phone wasn't working. So I didn't have regular communication. I didn't have internet in my apartment, but I was starting to feel like I was really losing contact with people and missing out. And I didn't want to miss my best friend's wedding. So I flew back to Chicago for the wedding and then I ended up visiting Chris in Los Angeles and then essentially never left. So how long were you in Paris all in? About a year. Oh, wow. That's like really fully immersed. And so then tell me a little bit about how your skill set changed from day one to heading back to the States. Well, I started, like I said, as their comica can then eventually I worked my way up and made it to the wine bar and then line cook for service at night. And that was for me a huge accomplishment because I was so bad. I was slow and I was messy and I was overwhelmed every single day. When it comes to those experiences, you don't really notice all that you've gained until you're away from them. So I had gotten faster. I had increased my palate, my techniques. I learned how to clean a fryer, how to fill a fryer. All these little things that add up, you underestimate them and you don't think of them as something huge and significant, but learning a flower batter for fried chicken and a buttermilk brine or something like that. Like I have those little things in my back pocket that I really didn't even realize I was learning. So you come back, you end up in L.A. How did you end up working at animal of all places? Because by the way, like for anyone who doesn't know, it has always been a gem in L.A.'s cuisine. I mean, it is so fabulous. It's really like super foodie and you came back to the hottest place going for the most part. So how did that work out? Well, Chris and I had gone out to dinner there one of the first days that I was here and I just loved all of the food and the combinations and the thought behind it and eating pig ear and all this funky things that I definitely was not cooking in Paris, you know, ever as you it was a tasting menu. It was really high end fine dining and animal had the same kind of components and the same kind of finesse, but felt more fun and light and free. But, you know, I went to my safety night a little bit and I was like, okay, I just came from French food, like let me try Toa Mac. And I went to Toa Mac and I ate by myself at the bar and I met shot fluto because I was staring at the cooks. And I think they were like this chicks crazy because I was like writing down notes and he said, Hey, what are you writing down? Everyone's wondering what you're doing. And I was like, Oh, I'm a cook. And he's like, what you should have said so. And he was super kind and was like, come on in and stash. I'm opening another restaurant. This is the perfect time for you to come in. I stashed. I was so nervous. I was like fumbling things and just making weird decisions. Like I used an immersion blender to make a salad dressing. I was just like nervous and overthinking. Yeah, it didn't get the job. They didn't have a spot for me, but they were like, we will in a few months. You can start at petite toa. I was like, I need a job immediately. And they're like, well, animals hiring. Let me get you in touch with Jonathan Wittner, who is a chef at the time. And when I came into animal, I was like, I need this job. I am going to bust my butt. Yeah. And I did and they hired me. So I was very, very excited to be there. I mean, I can only imagine how phenomenal that must have been. What was your experience like? And then at what point did you start thinking about moving across the street? So animal in the same way I would felt in Paris. I was blown away by what they were doing. I'd never seen beef tendon and how they were preparing it. Or like I said, like, pig ear. Like how do you even make pig ear and sweet breads? I just had no experience with those things. So immediately I was overwhelmed and felt like I didn't know what that I was doing again, which I knew it was a good sign. I always stuck with that because I always knew it was temporary because I could learn it. Yeah. And so at animal, you know, I found myself coming in early every day. I wanted to spend as much time with the head chef Jonathan at the time because he was so smart and was doing things I hadn't seen before. It was also my way of meeting, you know, Jon and Vinnie and getting to know them because they were so busy and they were running their catering operation out of animal. So I got to work with them and then their other chefs and learn right from the get go that they were like saying yes to everything, you know, trying different approaches to food and catering and animal as their restaurant and son of a gun. And I was inspired by that. I was like, wow, they're not just sticking with this one kind of food. They're looking at this kind of food and this kind of food. And this is when I met Helen and she was, you know, the beverage director for the restaurant group. And I just remember watching her and being like, wow, like the impact she makes in a space is really powerful. And the control she is able to have of what she's doing and her delivery or her approach, like it was cool to see a woman in restaurants moving in that way. And I wanted to work with her more. And so in animal, this little heart and the little nucleus of this growing restaurant group, I got access to these really smart people and I just wanted to keep learning. So I did everything I could at animal. I worked up from Garmajé to the line, the hotline. Garmajé is like cold prep and cold dishes. But it's also a difficult station at animal back then. There was a lot of food coming off that station. So it taught me how to multitask and move. And like I have such a fondness for all the line cooks there because they trained me and trusted me to kind of step on the line. Granted, I was willing to also be bad to be good. And I think I had a positive attitude, but I also learned so much from them to be able to be prepared enough to know that, you know, when John and Vinnie's was being built, that that would be something I would consider. But I was also kind of getting that itch in LA where I was like, I don't know, LA is growing on me, but I don't really have a community of friends. You know, I'm only with the restaurant team. I kind of miss Chicago. I was kind of curious about maybe going back to Chicago and working in an Italian restaurant. And my brother kind of was like, no, stick it out. John Vinnie are opening an Italian restaurant. So when they hired a different chef, I was kind of bummed because I was like, oh man, like I don't want to just go over there and be a breakfast cook or a line cook. Like I was ready for a challenge. And the timing, serendipitously came together. There was a day where I kind of got to a place where I was like, I'm just going to move on. Like I learned as much as I could at animal. I was ready to go. And John and Vinnie were like, whoa, oddly, our head chef has left. We need you to step into some big shoes. And I think they had seen that I was good with people. And that I had some potential for management or management experience. And I was just a natural fit for John and Vinnie's. Which is where we met. Yes. And you were there for quite a long time. And I remember like, you kept continuing to grow. And the restaurant group continued to grow. And you know, it's one of those things that like, I love it. But also I have seen in my own life when things grow, things change. And not in a bad way. It just becomes different. You're managing more and you're doing less of the thing that you love doing that got you into the industry in the first place. In my case, I'm talking about editing versus writing. And so I'm wondering what that was like for you because it was like, okay, so now you're culinary director. And now there are multiple restaurants. And now you're not in the Fairfax spot anymore. You're opening Brentwood. There's other things going on. And during that whole time, I was like, when is she going to do her own thing or like, what's going to be next? And I remember wondering what that time was like for you. Because sometimes it's great. Some people love it. They're like, this is where I meant to be. And sometimes it can be a little bittersweet. So what was that time of growth like for you? Not to be corny, but it's like metamorphosis. You know, it's like I was this little thing trying to figure out where I belonged in food and leadership. And my journey as a chef and calling myself a chef and facing that impassure syndrome of coming into John and Vinnie's and filling big shoes, right? Coming in as the HUD chef, it was a lot. I was like, I have a lot to prove. I am also being trusted in this big way. My decisions are making a big impact. My efforts are making a big impact. And that's an incredibly responsible place to be in. But it can also be like at the beginning really fulfilling, but also hard. Because of how busy we were, I was working like crazy. I was taking on more and more responsibility. I really wanted to be there to help the team create a culture, make it feel hospitable to our guests, but also our internal customers, which I learned at UPS. You have to have a hospitality within as well, to take care of your team, to get them coming to work, to make the vibe feel authentic, so that the guests feel that energy. Because it's also open kitchen, so we can all see how everyone's doing and getting along, which I was like, that's a high-wire sort of situation. 100%. And that was such like a magic time for all of us, and now forever look back on it and be grateful for the opportunity, but also it's like sometimes you don't see it when you're in it. When you're in it, you're like, I need to be doing more. What else can I be doing? So I grew quickly and then we grew together. And I got to the place where that metamorphosis turns into like, okay, I'm ready to spread my wings. I'm ready to think about my next moves. What does that look like? What does it feel like? Is it here? Is it there? Is it elsewhere? Like what's happening in my career? Because at the end of the day, I didn't have a partnership. I believed myself to be an integral part. But I was also like, what does that actually look like? What does that mean if I had to define it? And I didn't know. And I think when you have that kind of ambiguity, and you're not really sure about what your future plans are, you have to think about, okay, do you have your own back? Who has the best intentions for you, other than yourself, probably no one. You've got to look out for yourself. And so it was a hard decision to make, you know, to decide to go off on my own. But I knew that I had to figure it out, that I didn't necessarily know what it was. But I knew that I had gotten to a place where I was a culinary director. I had the catering stuff under my belt. I had done so many things, you know, helped them open the good store during the pandemic and work on a frozen pizza. And I just was like, I would do anything for these guys, you know, and for Helen. But you know, it was less about anybody else and more about me. It was more getting to know myself. It was more doing some self-reflection and discovery as well of like, what is next? And if you are opening something, you need to stop wasting time. And I really, to this day, you know, I know that I have big goals and ideas and things I want to do. And, you know, you just have to plug away at them a little bit. So all of this coincides to around the same time is also the pandemic. And, you know, everything had to shut down for a minute. And I'm wondering what that time was like for you, especially in terms of thinking through like, next steps, new projects. Well, so much of this is my interpersonal life. During the pandemic, there was just so much soul searching, reflecting on where I was in my life and the stuff that I've gone through and really needing to explore that a little bit better. So I was taking care of myself. I think I had so many anxieties and so many job situations because I was really ignoring my inner voice and silencing myself. And that caused me such terrible English and conflict at myself. I was exhausting myself and running myself a little bit ragged. And, you know, that stems from a lot of stuff that I didn't resolve in my younger childhood and, you know, had to be a survivor and figure out like my next moves all the time and be a little bit calculated and like, how am I going to get an apartment? How is this going to happen? How is this going to happen? And I had that money English from such a young age that I never stopped worrying about that. And then it became, am I doing enough? You know, in LA, I had so much pressure on myself to be relevant to make an impact that I wasn't even realizing that I already was doing that. And that was enough. And I think that misled sometimes me and my own head to put so much pressure on doing more. I need to achieve more rather than having a qualitative experience. I think I was looking at things from a quantitative viewpoint. And so when things happened with the pandemic and I was in New York and I kind of forced myself to slow down, I realized how much my adrenaline was driving my life, you know, being addicted to restaurants and the pace of them and having my phone but never looking at it, being able to work a service for eight or nine hours and not even think about what's happening in the world or who I need to call back or text back or who's birthday it is. All that mattered was the quality of the food and the experience of the people coming in and out and my team that was supporting me and they were my family. And it just kind of all ran its course. And so I needed to find better outlets to live with more quality and really nourish myself because I wasn't doing that. I was nourishing everyone else. You know, I had to really look at myself and my life and think more about how I had to change that. Yeah, what did that lead you to? So I stepped back and for the first time I started cooking again in a way that was really important. You know, like you said, you know, when you get higher, higher up you lose the closeness to the creative and because I was doing that I was forgetting to nourish the creative and I could have been doing that but I didn't know really how or where to create space. So becoming less available in a restaurant space and more available in my own life I was able to private chef and cater in right menus and work with families and cook for them and be using all sorts of different ingredients all the time. And my brain was just like, oh, there you are. You're at home, like you figured this out. You needed to be cooking and expressing myself that way. And it's truly like the chef's journey if you think about it as I kind of went into a position where I excelled really, really quickly and leadership but I was missing that creativity blossom. Sometimes it happens at the same time and then sometimes it happens at different times. So my priorities shifted a little and I was able to support myself and also have a creative outlet and get rest and get into therapy and actually commit to it a little bit differently. That really helped me. I think just listening to it also sounds like when you're coming into your confidence as yourself and you know what you have to offer then you can negotiate on your own be half in a different way and you can listen to that voice in a different way because you're not operating in this like perpetual scarcity mentality. Yes, I wish I could have heard that 10 years ago. But that scarcity of mentality is so real because sometimes you're just feeling like you got to keep doing this because you can't imagine it any other way and it just depletes you really and I think as a middle kid there's just a lot of times where I silenced myself and that grew into jobs and that grew into relationships where I didn't know how to communicate what I was feeling which is interesting because I love communication but I can find that when it comes about my real experience in my inner world that's where I have a hard time doing it. You know, you have to develop those muscles and I'm still doing it every day. So now at this point you've walked away from John and Vinnie's you have your own private catering business, private chef. At what point does your brother knock on your door with a slightly unusual opportunity? The thing about Chris is he has the most incredible creative mind and years ago I had heard the framework of the show that he was working on but they're like his children, you know, he's got several of them, these beautiful ideas and he's never short of creativity and ideas that he's developing but this one has always felt a little different and a little bit magical and I knew that it was starting to pick up momentum. I think he was understandably kind of like, hey, I don't know where this is gonna go but it seems that the show I've been working on about the beef is gonna happen and I hadn't heard the title of the bear but I was like, Chris, this is incredible. Like, what do you need for me? He's like, I don't know, it's super preliminary but we're gonna start bringing in chefs to the writer's room and I would love you to help and I was like, I'm there, whatever you need, you tell me. And so I remember I got an email or something that was like the bear writer's room and I called him and I was like, the bear is the title, this is incredible. And I had initially like one of those gut feelings that this was a good thing and I was just really excited for him and just wanted to help contribute to make it as special as I could and whatever way. And so I found immediately like in the writer's room that that was so much storytelling and I had so much fun with Joanna and the writers and Chris just like talking about my restaurant experience and there were times where it was Maddie and I in the writer's room and talking about his experience versus my experience and like the differences and the importance of talking to so many different chefs because it's very unique for people from all sorts of different backgrounds and it's so important to hear those voices because it's so different for everyone. So at that point, did you know what your role was in your head where you're like, I'm just helping out this thing or were you actually like part of the team in an official way, like what was going on? No, I mean, look, I think Chris was like, go, this is my sister, how involved is she gonna be? How is this gonna work out? And so initially, I was like, okay, like, when you guys filming, hello, I'm here and no plans had come to fruition. So I was like, all right, I need to move on with my life. If y'all need me for the bear call me and I remember I was cooking in Jackson Hole or something and one of the producers called me and was like, we need your help. Can you come to Chicago? Flew right to Chicago, hopped right into the mix and there was no turning back. I knew immediately like that it was a good fit and that there were things that I could assist with and help with and bring the authenticity to what they were doing in any way I could. And so it just felt really natural and easy. So you were part of the writer's room early on and the explanation of like the chef journey and then when they called you to go to Chicago, you mean like to be on set and help on set? Yeah, oh, man, exactly. So what is that even entail? Like what were your responsibilities? What was your day to day like? What did you think you were doing? Did you think you were going for like a day, a week, a month? I had no idea. I just knew like they were figuring it out too. Remember, this is like season one and it's not really clearly defined until you like happen the mix but I had worked with the actors, some of them before we started shooting. I knew Lionel from John and Vinnie's. I worked with Io, she came to the farmers market with me a couple times. We cooked at my place in Los Angeles. So I had built these relationships and then I was also coordinating a lot of their stages that they were doing outside of the bear before they had started filming. So there were relationships already built. So when I got on set, it was just like go and felt like just like a restaurant. I mean, we were filming in a restaurant. Also, it was the beef. It felt like Mr. Beef. It was like I grew up going there. I know their family really well. So I felt very comfortable. I was probably more in my element than a lot of people just because I was like, this is the world that I know. And so I'm going to make it feel like the world. Were there any moments of pushback on either side where you're like, no one would ever do that or like this has to be this way because I think that's like what of the most universal takeaways from the bear is like how real it feels. It's the only thing that's ever really gotten it right. The stress of it, the joy of it, the rhythm of it, the violence of it, like the energy of it, it's unlike anything else. It really is. Well, yeah, I think right away that was something that was obvious is that I had read the scripts and then the scripts were already so wonderful. And it was just adding that little magic of how they would move, you know, the choreography of that in the space, what feels real, what would they actually say, but also what would they do? And then, you know, having the freedom to say, hey, guys, pause, this isn't right. I bet Chris, they would never do that. They would never say that. And working with like the set decorators and the props department to help point them in the right direction. So you're literally like, this knife is real. That one is not, no one would use a pen that looks like this. This is what the hand towel is, like all of it. Yes, dang. Carry that on your shoulder. That burner needs to actually be working. We need, you know, special effects to turn it on. Like it should be hot in here. Everyone should be moving. Like if it's not hot, you're gonna move differently. And when it's hot, you move very different. And like your arms move differently and how you grab your pan because you know it's hot is gonna look different if you're acting and it's cold than when it's hot. So it's like, everyone was down in game to like make it as real as we could. So we made sure that the whole team caught with their knives and used cutting boards and secured their cutting boards. And it felt really as real as it could for us. And talk to me about the food because it feels like a character of its own. And I love the fact that we get to see some of the signature dishes in the making of in your Instagram posts. But tell me about that piece of it. So the food, that was very funny because Maddie and I would be like, we need 200 pounds of beef. And they'd be like, get out of here. We're like, no, we need it like by tomorrow. And they're like, why are we gonna get that? Like I'll go get it. But the props department in the set decorators, you know, whatever we needed, they were super helpful and getting us as close as we could. And then we were like, look, this stuff needs to actually be made. So like we need 30 chickens. We're gonna cook 30 chickens and we're gonna cut 20 quarts of lemons and we're gonna use all of this real food and we're going to cook with it. And so it was wild, you know, filling a walk in and filling the low boy refrigerators for the actors to play with and work with. But also those scenes that you see them cooking, like Maddie or I would jump in and do the inserts for some of the scenes. But a lot of times you see Carmie, you see Jeremy actually cooking and Ios actually cooking. We're just coaching them along the way and getting them set up so that they can like knock it out of the park, which they definitely did. That's so crazy. That's so crazy. What was it like working with your brother? It's really interesting because Chris and I, it's such a gift for us because we kind of lost touch for like eight or nine years when he moved out of Chicago and, you know, our family systems estranged in a lot of ways. So I always feel like with Chris and I, we make up for the last time and we're also having these corrective experiences together through work, which is a really beautiful thing. You know, we're now getting this chance of being brother and sister, but then also learning how to be co-workers and partners in this creative process and I feel really lucky that he trusts me and is able to allow me into his space because, you know, a lot of people might have that be difficult, but for us, it really works. And season two was even more magical and I'm just like so happy. I'm really appreciative. So the second season is coming up very shortly. What was it like the second time around? Easier, harder. You know, second season, it feels just like a restaurant opening. It really does because you have the pressure, you have to execute, you have people counting on you and they have high expectations. And so you rely on having an exceptional team and people that can support that vision and that take it seriously and are committed to it being really good. And I really felt that this season, like I would just look around and saw everybody bringing their A game and their professionalism and their dedication to the story and its cast, its crew. It's like everyone in Chicago, the incredible community of chefs and hospitality professionals really had our back this season and just went above and beyond to help us and support us and that is an experience I'll never forget. You know, I worked for so many chefs and made all these connections when I was younger and to see them come to fruition and have everybody rally and support and get us the best steak or help us make this show as good as it can be. It speaks a lot to Chicago's hospitality and love for it. And it just made us want to do even better of a job, because you just want to support all these amazing people that believe in the show. I don't know why that's making me emotional, but it is, you built all of this over so much time and then for them to see that love and care and honor and to mirror it back to you that has to feel really incredible. It's surreal and it feels like a big hug in a lot of ways and it makes me love Chicago on a whole different layer and I think what happens sometimes when you have these memories, you know, when you go through trauma and stuff like that, it can be hard to go back home. And I've always felt that when I go back to Chicago, it can bring up a lot of stuff. And this time felt corrective in the way where I was able to feel this warmth from this community and love and it was like family meal in this bigger way. You know, I think about all those jobs in Chicago and all the different restaurants and the things that I did. And it's like, it really did come full circle in a lot of ways, which is such a beautiful thing working on the bear is restaurants changed my life and gave me purpose and love and family and what an amazing opportunity to have people connect and see that in television and see it in their own lives and appreciate it maybe in a different way. And, you know, in some of the restaurants we filmed in the season, we just had these beautiful relationships develop with these chefs that just told us their stories and really opened up to us in this way that I've never seen before. And it's an amazing conversation to be a part of. Well, I'm very excited, very excited. And I'm also curious with this new aspect of your career, what are you thinking about for the future? Where do you see yourself going? What sounds exciting to you now? Have you identified that? Yeah, I have. I mean, I have so many ideas about the space and the thing I want to create. And one of the things from the bear we always talk about is like, when it's done, you'll know. It will be out there. But in the meantime, it's just something, you know, I've learned to just really protect and hold closely and like understand until it's ready to be brought into a full thing. And in the other way, I'm like learning how to put myself out there as well, you know, and open up with these opportunities and shoot a little bit more food content. People have been asking me for recipes for years and now I have the time to do them and put them out there a little bit. I love teaching people how to cook. So, you know, I want to do something with that. I love working with kids. I just like, there's so much that I want to accomplish in the food space and I love showing food in all these different new mediums. So that's been a cool thing for me to explore. Okay, okay. So we like to talk about mistakes on this podcast because everyone makes them, but we don't always talk about it. Everyone likes to give their like press version of everything's great. But I'm hoping that you can tell me about a mistake that you've made at any point in your career and what you've learned from it. Yeah, I think some of the mistakes, I would say that I've had were in big decisions being afraid to be honest or being afraid to let other people down, being afraid to not be able to take opportunities that may not suit me. You know, I've made mistakes in doing things just because I felt like I had to and I was short-sighted just to be like, okay, you have to say yes to every single job. This could be great. Tire yourself out to go to the thing because you have to, because you have to be networking, because you have to do this thing, you have to do that thing. Those are all really beautiful opportunities, but if they're not met with a full confidence or coming from the right place, it sometimes means you don't have to do that, you know? And sometimes I wish I would have said, if you don't know, that's a sign, that's enough. So I think I've rushed into things like that. And so those mistakes, I think, I've wasted time or energy because I wasn't honest with myself. And learn the lesson, definitely. And sometimes you need to take those opportunities to be like, I knew that wasn't the right fit, and now I'm gonna listen to myself more. So a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast are in their first life. They want to do something different. They want to make a big leap the way that you did, or maybe they are in their second life and they want to evolve into a third opportunity, who knows, but they're nervous as someone who has made a number of giant leaps and also pivots in her career. What advice would you give someone who's not quite there yet, but thinking about it and wants to get there? Well, that it makes so much sense and that it takes so much bravery to acknowledge those things within yourself and it takes courage to say, hey, I might not be as happy as I think I can be. And I want to maybe pursue something, but I'm scared. It's brave to say you're scared. It's also very brave to pursue or at least think about other things, but there's a philosophy, obviously, that says leap in the nutshell up here. And that was my post it that I put on my door after I left John and Vinnie's a place that I had loved for so many years, I was so terrified of leaving. And what I realized now is that the net that I was looking for was really myself. I know that's corny, but it makes me a little emotional because I was like, okay, the net looks like this job that just came through or the net looks like I found a paycheck that I didn't cash and I was like, oh my God, you know, there's an internal net there. And if you have patience and you prepare yourself, you will find that that will get you heads and tails farther than you could ever imagine. I always had a level of preparation and dedication to any job. So if I didn't know what I was getting into, like even in the past few years, I've just been like, I'm gonna just stay prepared. In my downtime, I'm gonna keep reading cookbooks and testing recipes and I'm gonna call this friend and see if she knows anyone who needs private chefs or caterers or I really looked to chefs that were better than me and spent as much time as I could with them. I would say, hey, let me come to an event. I'll cook with you or what do you need? I'll wash dishes, I'll help you load in or load out. And I built as much community as I could. And I will say that in the leap, there are always people that you'll find very encouraging that support you, whether it's friendship or it's reading quotes, reading books, watching shows, listening to music, I listen to a lot of Beyonce. And I know that sounds crazy, but I look to these beautiful, powerful women and sometimes we just need a little bit of a push to get through the day when I was feeling overwhelmed. And so it can come in a lot of different ways. It's scary, but it can also be exhilarating. So my last question is my favorite question, which is, if you could go back in time and speak with your younger self and give her some advice, what would you say? Oh, I'd give her a hug. I'd be like, you know what, it's gonna be all right. Stop worrying, rise to the occasion. Don't run away from the fear but take little baby steps towards the fear because always on the other side of it is growth. And I always tell all my friends that because I'm afraid of stuff all the time. I'm nervous before this podcast. If the intention is there to do a good job, most likely you'll try to do a good job. And if the effort is there, that's enough sometimes. And I would have told myself not to try to be so perfect because you're not. And that's okay. And that is just fine. That is just fine. Well, Courtney, this has been such a pleasure as always. You know that I am Team Coco for Life. I just think the world of you and I just think what you've done is so incredible. And thank you for making the time for us today and for taking us a little bit behind the scenes of your story. It's just such a pleasure. I can't tell you how much I enjoyed our time together. Me too. That was Chef and the culinary producer of the Bear, Courtney Storer. For more inspiring interviews with women like Courtney, head on over to SecondLifePod.com where we have so many more for you to prove. If you like today's show, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review us. We love seeing spread the word on social. And now you can tag us in your posts. We are at SecondLifePod on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. We always want to know who you're interested in hearing from on the show. So send in your requests to hello at SecondLifePod.com or you can DM us on Instagram. I'm at Hillary Kerr. The show is at SecondLifePod. Our DMs are always open. I'm Hillary Kerr and you've been listening to SecondLife.