Hi everyone, I'm Hilary Kerr, the co-founder and chief cocktail officer of Who Up Where,
and this is Second Life, a podcast spotlighting women who have truly inspiring careers.
We're talking about their work journeys, what they've learned from the process of setting
aside their doubts or fears, and what happens when they embark on their second life.
Today, I'm speaking with Beauty Influencer and Model, Amira de Spain.
Perhaps best known for her makeup focus get ready with me TikTok videos,
which have received over 85 million views.
Amira creates viral content about beauty trends and tips,
as well as her life in New York City for her 1.2 million followers.
She also recently became the first black trans model to work with Victoria's Secret,
and has appeared in campaigns for NARS cosmetics, as well as on covers, like galore.
But, before she was modeling and making her own beauty content, Amira was actually working
at Paper Magazine, first as an intern, and eventually she worked her way up to becoming the
publication's Beauty Director. It was there that she launched a Snapchat show called
Natural, which helped Amira find her voice as a creator and ultimately take the leap to strike
out on her own. She is beyond inspiring, and I can't wait for you to hear from her today.
Now, on Second Life, it's Amira de Spain.
All right, Amira, are you ready to go? I'm ready to go, let's do it.
So, on this podcast, we like to start at the beginning.
What did you study in school, and much more importantly, what did you think you were going to be
when you grew up? When I was a kid, I actually wanted to be a dentist for a while. Really?
I have no idea why, because I'm terrified of the dentist, but I like thought that it was so cool.
The transformation of teeth, and how beautiful teeth are, has always been so fascinating to me.
I don't know, that's very random. But yeah, I studied marketing and communications at NYU.
So, my freshman year in Paris, which was very cool, and I have many, many crazy stories and stuff
from when I lived in Paris. So, yeah. It's very unusual to spend a freshman year abroad.
What made you decide to do that? How did you wrangle that, and why Paris, other than Paris?
Yeah. So, originally, I wanted to go to NYU Abu Dhabi. They have a campus there,
and I thought that was really cool. It was either NYU Abu Dhabi or NYU Shanghai.
Or, of course, NYU Manhattan. And I didn't get accepted into Abu Dhabi. So, I was going to Manhattan,
and they had another program that was a global liberal studies program, and you could start your
freshman year in either Paris, London, Florence, or Milan, I think. Out of all of those cities,
Paris was the one that spoke to me the most. And I spent the whole year there. I was actually there
during the Paris attacks, which is, wow, not so cool. But it was an experience that, it's something
that I hold with me to this day. It made so many friends. I experienced so many different cultures.
It was the experience of a lifetime. Did you speak French? So, I got there, and I spoke
no French at all. I had never been to France before. I knew nobody that I was going into. It was
like, I'm here so brave. I know. It was truly like the ultimate test by the universe. But, no. So,
I went in speaking no French, and I came out almost minoring in French at NYU. And now,
I still can speak and understand French. I'm not the best, but I'm starting to take classes again
so that I can get it back. I love everything about that. That's also such a cool way of
tackling your college experience. I've never heard of someone doing that before. So,
what an amazing, amazing program. And kudos to you for choosing something that is ultimately so
liberating and exciting and was just a wonderful experience all around. So, yes, on that. Okay,
so at some point in time, you'll have to tell me when you secured an internship at paper.
Tell me about the process of figuring out, I think I would like to work for paper. I think I
want an internship. Why that publication in particular spoke to you other than excellence.
And what your experience was like there. Yeah. So, I spent my freshman year in Paris,
and then I came back to Manhattan, my sophomore year at NYU. And I actually worked at another
startup before paper. And my internship was coming to an end. And I had a friend that was working
at paper. And she basically like introduced me and she was leaving her internship position.
But the internship that she was in was on the editorial side. And I didn't really want to work in
fashion. I knew that I wanted to work in marketing. That's always been something that I have found
very interesting, like how people perceive things and perceive advertisements and stuff has been
so fascinating to me ever since I was a kid. So, she introduced me to the right people. But then from
there, I told the paper team, hey, like I am more interested in advertising and marketing. So,
there was an agency within Paper Magazine. So, I was the only intern for that. And it was really
cool. I got to work with the best team ever. I considered them my closest friends. And it was
awesome. I fulfilled that marketing side to me. And it helps me still to this day. I got to work
at an agency. And I don't think a lot of influencers can say that they've done that. Very much so.
Okay. So, you were still at NYU, though, right? Yeah. So, I was still at NYU. So, I was a full-time
student. And then I was basically a full-time employee, or I guess I would say almost full-time
employee. Like, I was working so much. Because I loved it so much. And it was so fun balancing the
two and like having a social life. It was hard, but it was cool. It was like, I think I grew up
really fast, always. Like, when I was in high school, middle school, whatever. I'm the oldest.
So, it was cool to me to like get to have a working New York girl experience.
So, I interned in New York when I was in grad school at in style. And then at Harper's Bazaar. And
it was such an interesting time. And I think that's one of the great things about going to school
in a city like New York is that you have so many opportunities for internships. But it's also
interesting because I work for these big corporate companies. And depending on what department
and who your boss was, you didn't necessarily get to do anything that was particularly hands-on.
There was some and it certainly increased over time. But I can only imagine that at paper,
you actually got to be really hands-on because it was independent publication and a small company.
Can you speak a little bit about that company culture and what the benefits are to being in a
smaller company, certainly during that internship phase? Well, so because I wasn't on the editorial side,
I was the only intern in the marketing side. And because of that, I was like going to meetings,
I was at L'Oreal, pitching things when I was like 19 years old. It was crazy. And these people,
they trusted my opinion because I'm the target demographic in which the advertisements are going
to. And I'm like, this is pre-tech talk. But I'm telling them about the talent that they should be
working with, cities they should tap into, things like that that they would never have thought of
without me. That's like really hyping myself up. But you know what I mean for it. But seriously,
it's a perspective. It's a unique perspective. And ultimately, you're the person that they are
trying to attract. So why not have someone in the room like that? Right. And I was given so much
responsibility because I was the only intern there in the marketing side like that. And I was so valuable.
The marketing team realized that we worked together on so many projects and I was given so many
projects of my own to work on, which was really cool. And I had friends on the editorial side and
yeah, it was like the typical fashionie intern where like, you know, you're like,
going to go get coffee like that kind of. You have to start somewhere. Yes. Yes. Indeed.
Okay. So you turned that internship into a job, which I feel like is kind of the dream pipeline
always. So talked to me a little bit about how that worked out, how you knew it was the right choice
to make and what your time was like. Oh my god. Yeah. So it was when I graduated NYU,
I basically had a conversation with the marketing team and I was like, look guys,
I love this so much. I want to be here. And they were like, of course, we're hiring you full time.
So I've only ever had that job. That is crazy. It is crazy. And I had been there for so long.
Like, I love that team so much. My boss Jamie, she's badass. Like I respect her so much.
And yeah, I got to work there full time. And then I eventually transferred over into editorial,
which was very interesting. And it was a very big shift. But I was working there for so long.
I kind of felt like I had outgrown marketing in a way. I think that I felt like there was not
much more I could tap into in terms of my skill set. If eventually the plan was for me to have
my own company or my own business one day, when you're working jobs, you want to get as many skills
as you can. Right. That makes sense. When you went full time, did that feel different in any way
in terms of the workload or the responsibilities? It felt a little different. Honestly, it felt like
a weight was lifted off my shoulder not having to balance school and a job. Now it's like, oh,
I can just focus on my job. And it was so much easier. But then the pandemic happened because I
graduated in 2019. Oh, no. And that took us spin on business in general, of course,
like across the world. Yeah. So you mentioned that you had moved over to the editorial side. What
peaked your interest in that initially? And at what point were you like, okay, I think I'm ready.
You said, of course, you have felt like you were sort of hitting your own ceiling and marketing.
But was there anything else that sort of sparked that decision? Yeah. So beauty has always been
like such a big part of my life. And actually, when I was still at NYU, I would log my camera
equipment to NYU studios. They had a studio. I lived in like a shitty East Village walk up.
And I had like horrible lighting in my apartment. So I would take my lighting equipment to NYU
studios. I would drag it there every Saturday. And I would film a YouTube video. And they would
get like 100 views if even. But my paper team knew how much I loved beauty. And like we would
talk about beauty a lot, especially with my boss Jamie. And I think they all just knew that that
would have been a smart move for me. So they actually told me they were like, Hey, do you want to
help us develop out the beauty department? Like we don't have a beauty editorial department.
And I was like, Oh my God, this is amazing. But at the same time, I was like, I don't want to give up
my marketing yet. I felt like I was like going to be forced to pick a favorite child almost.
So we worked out a thing where I would kind of go back and forth. Like I would still
be working on the marketing side. And I would still get to work on the editorial side, which was
really cool. And I think that experience alone would have been good enough for me to like get
the understanding. But it was cool getting to balance the two. And then anytime like a beauty
marketing pitch would come in, it would be assigned to me so that I could, you know, help
around that out. So for any of our listeners who might not be as well versed in marketing as you are
and maybe don't understand like where sort of publishing and marketing and beauty all come together,
can you walk me through some of those responsibilities on the marketing side? And then how that
compared to responsibilities on a day-to-day level on the beauty editorial side.
Oh, yeah. So like on the marketing side, I felt like you were almost not in control.
A brand would come to you and they would tell you, hey, we have X amount of dollars. We are
looking for an event with five influencers and a performance in this city. They're also telling
you, oh, you're also up against like three other agencies. So then it would be up to you to like
come up with an idea for the party to integrate the brand in like a cohesive way that makes sense and
doesn't feel too advertising and taps into their audience that they're looking for, pick the talent,
pick the performer, and it starts out with the pitch, which I was like my favorite thing. Like I was
the big dreamer, the big thinker, like I would go all out with my ideas like no budget would stop me
and then you have to meet with like production and then they're like, hey, no, this is way out of
life. We're not hiring the Cirque du Soleil. Calm down. Yeah. But no, it was really cool. I also
feel like I understand the industry so much better. Like when I see an event now or as an influencer,
like I get invited to something, I like respect the work that goes into it on a different level
than I feel like a lot of people might because I know how much it takes how many people were involved
in getting this together. Okay. So you were the pitch woman. You loved the vision and then
compared to your day to day on beauty, what was that like? So on the editorial side for beauty,
it would be more so like I loved doing product roundups or like guides. That was my favorite thing.
Like I would pick a struggle that I feel like a lot of people would identify with and then I would
come up with a fun story with like stuff that I've tried out that I love. I did this one on
body care and like if you have caratosis polaris, bumpy skin, like stuff like that,
if there was a big event like the MacGala or the Grammys or something, I would do like breakdowns
of the looks and that was really fun to get to do and you know highlight the artists, which I
also loved a lot. Like you get to highlight the people who kind of go and notice the makeup artists,
the hair teams, the nail teams, the groomers for men. I feel like they don't get highlighted
enough too. So it sounds like you had a lot on your plate, but it also sounds like you were doing
really well because the reality is, and I say this as someone who has hired many, many, many people
over the years, you don't give someone more unless they're doing a really great job. So you were
obviously climbing pretty quickly. What advice would you give to other people who are, you know,
sort of in the formative years of their career, who want to move up, but maybe don't know exactly
how or what sort of initiative they should be taking? I would say give it your all and become the
star, like become the person that everybody depends on and will come to you for advice and ask
because then you become like the most valuable person. Like I definitely felt like I was one of
the most valuable people at that company. I know that everybody valued my opinion and my thoughts
and like that was something that I had built up over time because of the work that I had put in
and the way that I felt like clients and stuff would see me as well. I think it was just so well
respected within the company. I think that's like the biggest thing is if you can become valuable
and your opinion can become valuable, then your golden. So how did you tap into that level of
confidence to because I know that it's something that I certainly have struggled with at times when
I started my career at L in the features department and I remember sitting at a features meeting and
thinking like I don't have anything to contribute to this like these people are all so much older and
so much smarter than I am. And then the story idea that I had that I was too nervous to share, I would
see it in other publications and that was the beginning of me realizing, oh actually I do have good
ideas. I have something to share, but it took me a minute to get there. So I'm wondering if you
have any suggestions on tapping into that inner confidence to say like I do know things if you are
a little bit nervous otherwise. Well that would exactly happen to me on a smaller scale. Like I would
think something in my head in a meeting and then I'd be too scared to say it and someone else says
it and they get praised and they're like that's such a genius idea. And I'm like oh man I literally
just thought of the same thing and I like should have said it. So yes I think that over time helped
me realize oh my god I deserve a seat at this table because I'm thinking the same thought process
that every single person does. And I kind of tapped into my background as my armor for confidence.
Like I would say I'm the only person here who has XYZ education, the only person here who has my
personal life experiences. So I kind of felt like there's no wrong answer like there's no silly idea,
there's no way I could possibly embarrass myself. If somebody takes it on them to find what I just
said silly or embarrassing it's on them not on me. So I might as well share my idea you know what
I'm thinking of. I love that. And it's true it really is it's like you're going to think something
silly that's your issue not mine. Exactly. And it takes time to get there I think it's not something
that happens overnight. And that's how it should be too I think. Yeah yeah agree 100% because the reality
is as we don't always have the best ideas on day one. But you get there. So you ended up as beauty
director for the publication. And I remember this very vividly you launched a Snapchat show
called Snatural. So you were creating content which obviously you already had a background in
and we're doing in your own life. So tell me a little bit about what that time in your career was
like the lessons that you were learning the tools that you were honing all of that stuff.
That was I think my favorite part of my career the anticipation was so crazy like I left the
marketing side full-time we transitioned into the full beauty editorial and then beauty director role
and that was really cool like I felt like I got to take control over the department because it was
just me. It felt like the publication was my oyster with beauty and everybody just kind of
trusted me with the beauty staff and they're like oh yeah I'm here we'll do her little beauty thing
and I'm like okay I got this. And then of course yeah Snatural was really fun. We were working on
that the same time that I was writing for paper and it was cool we really got to like film a bunch
of stuff and then on Snapchat we were posting and then I would go live on Tech Talk. It was also
kind of in the midst of the pandemic when Snatural launched. So it was cool that I was getting to like
distract myself and distract other people from like the throes of the pandemic to you know watching
this little baddie beat her face on camera. Did it all come naturally to you? Did you study other folks
who had done it really well? Walk me through that piece of it because I do feel like obviously you
had some understanding of lighting and angles and you had been you know creating your own videos but
it is still different to do it like on a professional level on a much larger stage like that.
So how did you get comfortable? Well papers team the production team they really helped me build it out
like I would have the ideas and then they would help me like go from there. But for Snapchat specifically
it was basically like native content that I was shooting at home on my own. So it felt like
you know I wasn't the one editing it which I could have learned a bit more editing skills because
that's something that I still struggle with. But you know it was cool. I was getting to just film
on my own at home and that type of content was and is doing really well. That's like the best
type of content to perform right now. When you are making something were you thinking about like
I'm just making this for myself or I know what people are going to want because I know what I want
and therefore I can be guided by my natural instincts of what's entertaining and what's cute and
what's thoughtful and what's actually helpful. Yes exactly that. I only create content even to this
day that I would want to consume. I'm both the consumer and the creator which I guess most
successful creators I think are. I think that's like the key to it is like create content for the
audience in which you're a part of. But it's also interesting because I can't help but think that
there's like the marketing and the beauty director piece coming out too because you're not only
looking at it as the creator and the audience but you're also looking at it from like the business
perspective of what someone's going to want from the brand side as well as from like the editorial
creative and to have that duality in so many different ways talk about a secret weapon that's
phenomenal. It's pretty cool it definitely helped especially the editorial stuff because I would
use it to come up with ideas like I would come up with a story idea and then be like oh this can
easily translate into a video then you plug the video into the story and then you plug the brand
product into the story it was like full circle and then the story itself on site is a better story
because there's video componentry to it and so depending on who you are how much time you have
and how you like to consume content you can either read it and shop it or you can simply watch it
it's very clever. Okay so you had obviously your own social media during this whole time. Did you
have your own TikTok before you started? It's natural. I did. I wasn't focusing on it very much like
I was so focused on the paper TikTok and like I would do live streams every Friday during the
pandemic with paper focused on me just doing my makeup for fun and they would do so well like
thousands and thousands and thousands of people were watching and it was so fun but at the end I
would always be like oh like everyone go follow my TikTok till even though I was like barely posting
anything on there and then I started trying I was like okay like if I'm already posting this content
on paper I might as well post it on mine too especially since I was only doing that one so
a week and then I would post every few days on my own so I was waking up at 4 a.m. I would film
from 5 until 9 and then I would go into the office and then I would come home at 6 and I would
edit until 8 30-ish that is a lot it was a lot but it was really fun I didn't think of it as work
I was just getting ready to go into the office I was like I'm gonna film some fun stuff and just
wake up early I mean this is a crazy work ethic also that we need to talk about so where did
that come from I think I get it from my mom my mom is a first-generation immigrant and she has
like be strong as work ethic like to a fault sometimes and I'm like you got to learn to take a break
because if I can learn then you can too girl but yeah both of my parents have very strong work
ethics and I think I learned that from them so talk to me about the makeup piece of it because
while I have been doing my makeup since I was a tween I guess and by the way I was a teenager
in the 90s so there were no tutorials there was no internet there was no anything it was like me
going to the counter at Nordstrom and hoping that someone at the clinic counter could help me find
the black honey lipstick that I wanted some of the other girls were into and I have to say to this
day the thought of putting makeup on in front of people and having them see my technique does not
strike me as something that would be like calm or chill so I'm wondering how did you learn so much
about makeup and more importantly how did you learn enough that you felt comfortable doing it on
camera and talk to me about all of the makeup stuff okay so I think I didn't start wearing makeup
until college it was freshman year when I was living in Paris and I felt like I had no reason to
not try something new I was like I don't know anyone this is like a new city like who cares so it
was terrible but I would wear this like BB cream I think it was Clarence and it was the wrong shade
and the BB cream itself was great but it just did not work with my skin tone or texture I had really
bad cystic acne so I was trying to cover that and it was not a vibe but I was watching so many
YouTube videos like I would watch YouTube videos for fun who were some of your favorites that you
were watching at that point in time I was watching Patrick star I would watch Laura Lee I would
watch Manny MUA I would watch all of the like L.A influencer beauty baddies I was like obsessed and
even though I wasn't at that point doing my makeup like that I was still learning subtly and then I
came back to New York and I think it wasn't until like junior year where I started really putting
on makeup and oh my god it was so bad there's a getty image of me under my dead name that I always
use in videos because I think it's so funny and I have this makeup forever powder underneath my
eyes and it's like flashback it's like why it happened to what Nicole Kidman it happens to everyone I'm
just saying like we all have to crawl before we can run right yes and I love that it's all
documented it's so funny to look back on and yeah you know my makeup techniques were so bad at first
like I was doing things that I was seeing people on YouTube doing that did not have my features
or like my face shape I wasn't exploring new things I would just keep doing the same things over
and over again and it wasn't until I started trying new things new brow techniques new contouring
techniques new lip techniques that I finally started finding what looks good on me right okay that
makes sense and then where were you in that journey when you started doing TikTok series because
that's the other part of it too it's like sure you know going from early days you learn quite a bit
but you can always learn more there's always a level of education so I'm wondering like at what point
you felt like oh I got this enough to do this on camera or like who cares the same thing about ideas
like if someone else laughs that's on them not on me at least I'm out here doing something how was
your head at that point it was exactly that I think the delusion and the confidence really what
took me that far and like this far that I am now there was never a point where I was like okay I feel
confident enough to like put this on the internet like I was like well this is me doing my makeup and
this is how I do it and like if anybody wants to follow and I always say if you're not looking
back at photos of yourself from the year before and saying oh my god what was I thinking then you're
not growing and I look back every year even last year I'm like looking back and I'm like why did I
style my hair like that what was I thinking with those lashes like that I think is growth and even
next year I'm gonna look back at photos from today and I'm gonna be like what was I doing with my
eyeshadow it's interesting because there is also a similar sentiment in the startup world which is like
if you're not embarrassed by your 1.0 by the time it's out you're not moving fast enough
you have to always iterate and that's true in technology that's true in beauty so you started
doing these videos you started posting your own I hear you on the editing side of things like I feel
like that piece of it is just a slower heavier lift but at what point were you starting to think
hey I could monetize my own following here maybe I should be doing that well it started with
fall of 2021 it hasn't been very long and fall of 2021 my video started really taking off and I was
basically creating a lot of the same content and I was creating for paper on my own I would find
sometimes they would do better on mine sometimes they would do better on paper depending on
like the topic so I was really like finding out what both audiences were liking were you analyzing
that yes yeah and I would cater the content to them because I'd be like you know the paper
audience maybe for example it doesn't really care about the educational side of things they just
want entertainment versus like my side would want more educational type of content and so I would
take notes on my content and then it really took off in the end of the fall of 2021 when I started
posting get ready with me is because I was analyzing other people's content and then I created like a
recipe I guess of like what I think was gonna do well so I would just note things down that I would
notice other people doing of videos and I kind of combined them all together and my videos started
doing really really well and ever since then from that fall until you know the end of the year I
think I gained like three hundred thousand followers and like that short time span like it was really
just popping off yeah god that's so crazy yeah did you have like a threshold in your head of like
oh when I hit this then I'm going to monetize it in this way and then also because you have that
marketing and beauty editorial background where you starting to think like maybe I should pitch
myself for some of this stuff because you have a certain level of insight that your average person
would not yeah so one of my good friends actually was starting his agency at the time collab
Andrew Warren and he was starting the agency and he was like wait we can monetize your content even
before I started taking off I was getting like a couple hundred dollars here and there for like a
random Instagram story or like a thousand dollars or a tech talk I wasn't getting anything crazy
not bad though yeah oh my god it was amazing I was like a corporate girl getting this like
little side hustle going I was like oh my god and then when the video started really taking off then
the agency like we like signed and worked together to pitch me out to like some of my favorite brands
and stuff and it was cool so you now have over 1.2 million followers on tiktok alone yes what do you
think is the secret to your success and or the most valuable tool in building that audience is it
like a video link is it a consistency of posting is it topics is it the way that you shoot or edit
something like not to make you give it all away but if you had to say like this is my recipe what would
it be I think the true recipe is confidence like really like I think I see so many videos on my
for you page of people with video has like 10 likes or something it looks like someone has a gun
to their head and they're sitting there in front of their vanity I'm like I think the positivity
confidence joy that energy people are so drawn to because a lot of us have a lot of like
negativity in our lives and like we want that escape to see someone be so happy and so
authentically themselves like it's such a captivating moment that makes sense I mean yeah it makes a
lot of sense too and then also you are an obsessive note taker and are probably analyzing
everything behind the scenes to let's be honest we like our data yes yes yes you like our data
but sometimes it's too a fault because it really is like random and it really is like fate there's
only so much analysis you can do and I have to remind myself that a lot and like when you start
comparing yourself to other creators it's like you have to just take a break that's fine I always
say that data tells you where you've been data doesn't necessarily always tell you where you're
going because especially if you're innovating there's no data to support something that no one's
seen before so if you're only analyzing data you know it will work to a certain extent but it's not
going to help you evolve necessarily very true okay so a little over a year ago you decided to
officially leave your position at paper tell me about arriving at that decision did you have a
monetary threshold did something else happen I'm just curious about that tipping point because I've
interviewed hundreds of people for this podcast and there's always an interesting little critical moment
when they're like okay it's time and I'm wondering what yours was yes I mean I think the financial
threshold definitely was something that I was like looking towards and I was like okay now I can
know that I can support myself I was basing it off of the rule that if you're going to leave your
job you should have at least three to six months saved in your account like that's kind of what I
was basing on so yes I knew that financially I was secure and then right before that Victoria's
secret I worked with them and yeah this whole press moment go out and I kind of knew that from
then on things were going to be different you know like I'm now talent I'm not influencers slash
editor yeah I think from then on I knew so talk to me a little bit about working with
Victoria's secret how that all happened because I mean the most iconic of brands in so many ways
they've had an interesting few years in terms of like the business history so I'm curious about
how that came together how you knew it was the right brand at the right time and yeah well okay so
one of my old co-workers at paper actually she has a good family friend who works at Victoria's
secret and I guess they had been talking about me and like about the whole thing for a while and
their whole family is I think involved in Victoria's secret somehow so like they were all talking
about it working out before I knew and then my managers told me about it and they're like hey like
we want to do this thing with Victoria's secret and we didn't think it was going to blow up as much
as it did really yeah like the whole press thing like it really like popped off we weren't really
trying to make it like a moment and it just happened to be its own moment and we were like okay
that's kind of fate that's so interesting because from the outside and with the benefit of
hindsight seems very obvious that it would be a huge important moment on a number of levels
of course but in the moment you weren't thinking about it like that we weren't really thinking
about it we were like oh this is like a cute little Valentine's Day partnership like easy
so interesting so okay let's go back to your content for a moment as you mentioned earlier we
talked about the get ready with me videos and how that was something that you were leaning into
but one of the things that I really like is that your content is such a mix it's like yes there's
the beauty side of it but then it's also your life in New York and I'm wondering how do you know
what to share and what not to share and what to test and what to try do you have a content
calendar of things that you want to do in a certain amount of time and then like your bread and
butter more evergreen content I'm wondering how you frame all of that in your head
so I tried really hard to like organize it I tried notion I tried Monday I tried doing all the
things to organize my organic content and like create different categories and stuff and it just
felt like that's not the way to do it I felt like I was like forcing it and I was like it's always
been so special to me to just like have an idea in the moment you film it you post it it pops off
it doesn't it flops whatever like you posted it like that's your baby that you just created
and I think that's always been my strategy I guess and I deviated from it a little bit to try
the new thing and it didn't work I mean it sometimes works out to like have things kind of
organized obviously for brand content it's very organized but you know organic content I'm like I
just want to post it in the moment again I kind of think that goes back to the idea of authenticity
and not necessarily making everything so data driven per se it's like you can respond to
something in the moment and then that's going to hit better because it's part of a larger conversation
then if you had planned it and dropped it when no one was thinking about it necessarily right
yeah hundred percent so I also thought it was really interesting that you decided to share
the details of your gender confirmation surgery with your fans so I remember watching it right
after it went live and thinking that is so amazing that you also like shared the fact that you
thought about do I talk about this do I not talk about this can you discuss a little bit what made
you decide to come to that conclusion and what finally tip the scale oh yeah so obviously it's a very
personal surgery and I think for me the reason I was debating whether or not talking about it is like
I don't talk about me being trans a lot on my content like every now and then I'll post like a
funny glow up video or like something like silly like that and you know it's like entertaining and fun
but I don't share like a lot of details about doctors visits and things like that and like things
I'm insecure about or you know like I think there are a lot of trans creators who already do that
and props to them for sharing it and letting that be their platform but I didn't want to base my
entire online identity around my gender identity yeah and I just felt like it puts you in a box
and like especially since I have always been like me really like my family my friends like everybody
can attest to me being just like like that's so amira like I'm just like in my own little world
and I think that's the type of content that I create it took me a while to come to the decision
to share it I think it took me about six months like I was going back and forth like leading up to
the surgery and I had filmed that video and I was laying in the hospital bed on day like two or three
or something and I was like well I'm sitting here bored and I'm like I already have this video that
I edited and I was like I might as well post it I'm like someone's gonna appreciate it and if
anything I have this beautifully edited video that I can watch on my own if I want to but I also
felt like I have a responsibility to a certain extent not to educate people but I think I have a
responsibility to share the privileges that I have and like let other people know that I'm just
a human being even though I am also trans you know human first yes talk to me about editing
how long does it take you to edit something now are there certain videos that are more
difficult to edit I'm curious about the soup to nuts timeline of okay we got a video how long
is this going to take it depends like I really go back and forth sometimes some of my best videos
I've done this where you record it you edit in the moment and you just post it right away and
I would sometimes film again ready with me edit it in the car and post it when I got to the event
and then like you know turn off your phone but then I started getting really car sick so I can't
look at my phone in the car so I will now do I think it usually takes me like at least a day before
I want to edit and post something it depends on the video okay that makes sense so in addition to
all of your content creation work you also model talked me a little bit about that piece of it
is it hard to relinquish control in those moments or conversely is it maybe a joy to see how
someone else does it it's kind of a little bit of both because I feel like now I'm considered
more influencer slash model not just model like there's no way that they can parse them out
anymore so I feel like there is a level of respect that I might have that I feel like a lot of
other models may not be afforded which sucks like I know the industry it can be really horrible
and brutal for a lot of models and but in terms of relinquishing control like creatively I don't
care because I'm like you know what this is your world this is your thing like I'm just here
for the good times and the good vibes and to look pretty and smile and wave and have the memory
in my mind but I don't love when other people do my makeup and a lot of times fun shoots and
stuff like brands will be like oh like you have to like so and so do your makeup it just stresses
me out because I know my face so well yeah but there have been times when I have had my makeup done
very well that I'm like okay I have room to learn and room to explore and grow of course like
Mary Phillips doing my makeup was like the most insane thing in the world dang but like there are
moments you know where you're like oh my god I would never have thought to do this my brows look
so good so you've also had some like really major campaigns so obviously we talked about Victoria
Secret but also with NARS cosmetics and Anastasia who I interviewed for this podcast and you know
a little something called Fenty Beauty are there moments that really stand out for you as being
more meaningful than others and then why is it that you think that folks are so drawn to you
and are so interested in having you work with them brands are so I think interested in working with
me because I am so unique like one I check off a lot of boxes but do I feel like I really do have
such a unique perspective and like unique platform and like my community is so diverse it gets so
easily accessible to everybody and like that is why I think I'm also have done so well for myself
in terms of going my platform so I think in terms of like what was the most meaningful they're all
meaningful but if I had to highlight a couple I got to go to New York Fashion Week and walk the
Boohoo Courtney Kardashian show which was very very cool and that was like my first runway experience
that was very exciting and obviously meant a lot to me and then Charlotte Tilbury has taken me to
New York Fashion Week to the Christian Seriano show that was really cool I've had so many crazy
experiences like I was on the magazine cover for galore yeah and I took a helicopter to the Hamptons
and filmed the get ready with me in the helicopter and like had all my friends on board we landed in
the Hamptons like went to go party at surf lodge and that was so crazy yeah I've had many experiences
that I think that I owe to my followers my fans my community I owe it to the brands I owe it to
my parents for like getting me here I owe it to paper like so many people have helped me build up
who I am today I mean that's a lot of gratitude in your perspective and I think that's also really
refreshing because it does take a community in all of the ways to make us who we are and it's
such a lovely sentiment you mentioned Charlotte Tilbury so can we talk about how you sold out one
of her products because if someone doesn't really understand like the power of TikTok made me do it
TikTok maybe buy it can you talk a little bit about selling out it was her beauty light wand in
pink gasm right yes that one I sold out the NARS thrill blush that was crazy and the NARS team
I had to email them I was like you guys I was like I can't get my favorite blushing works I ran out
it was sold out for so long they sent me like 10 of them and they were like this is all we have left
it was so funny that one I sold out a couple different things the Kosis concealer which I love
and use all the time I was gonna do a video actually of like a full phase of all the stuff that I've
sold out I think that'd be really cool yeah that'd be fun are there certain categories where you
feel like you have a better level of expertise or sell through on that because I was gonna say this
feels like friendly on the skin complexion yeah category but I'm wondering if there's something
else where you're like oh this is another thing that I feel very confident about my skill set and
knowledge in I think mostly in the complexion makeup world that I think is where I tend to sell
stuff out a lot especially with blush why the way that I talk about product I think engages people
in a way that's not like oh my god I'm getting paid to sell this product or say this it's like
oh my god I've been using this product for so long and a this brand maybe have just partnered with
me because they've seen me use that for so long or be like it really is just something that I love
and I use all the time and if you know you know type of thing so walk me through that process in your
head too of how do you know who to partner with how do you know when it's going to be good because
I feel like we make decisions when we are starting out that maybe we would not make later on through
trial and error but do you have sort of like an internal test of whether or not a brand is one
that you will work with or whether or not a product is the right product because you could sell ice
to Alaskans but do you want to that piece of it I feel like especially that integrity and
authenticity piece of it is so critical so how do you make that decision especially when there's
a lot of money on the table yes and especially when the industry I think is so focused on money
and like a lot of beauty influencers specifically are just focused on getting a check and leaving
and I'm like that's so messed up like you're influencing people to buy things that you don't
actually use so for me I try to test things out if I can two weeks before I partner with them
or agree to partner with them and I've turned down partnerships because of that because things have
reacted badly on my skin or if that's not possible like if it's like let's say a new product
or something then I would say that I have to at least use other things from the brand and like
genuinely love the brand or genuinely love a product that is very similar to the one that they
are offering so yeah that's kind of like my benchmark to it got it and then what percentage would
you say of your partnerships are inbound versus outbound so like you have your list of like these
are my clients that I really want to work with I want to go back to them over and over or these
are the accounts I want to crack versus someone sending you a request because I'm sure you get
heaps and heaps and heaps of inward bound requests but I'm wondering how you think about
balancing the this is who I aspire to be and this is the check I want to collect of it all
it's kind of a good mix I feel like I try to focus on building the relationships with the brands
that I really love like I have such good relationships with Charlotte Tilbury Nars
Anastasi FNT Beauty like I've built those over time like I've made friends that work at the
PR agencies or even the actual companies and I think to me that is more important than just
getting a check like you're building a name for yourself in the industry and like yeah it's not
a corporate tower that you're climbing for example but it's still at the same time is like I want
to be known in beauty spaces oh my god Amira is the one for this specific product we're going to
work with her on this campaign we want her to push this out that is what I want to be known for
because I do good work and I have a really good community that I love and have built up and
is only going to continue to grow I mean that is a long game strategy it is so smart and I feel
like I've been saying this literally for decades but the industries are small people all know
each other word gets around everyone knows if you're kind authentic easy to work with professional
or if you're really difficult and that just goes around so you are so true very wise beyond your
years because that took me quite a bit to learn but once you learn it you can't forget it
right I think the paper part of it really did help me get to that because I was working with talent
I was the one who was emailing you know talent managers and being like can someone so send us her
content for this project now like I was the one who was on the other side of it so I have respect
for the people who are on the other end of it and I can imagine in their head the work that's
going on behind the scenes that I don't see and I'm thinking oh I'm just here to deliver the
content that's nothing in the grand scheme of things I got it I do so on that note what are some of
the other skills that you learned earlier in your career that you have taken into your work now
and that you feel like oh wow I didn't realize that this funny thing that I did at paper was
going to be something that I still use and think about today as an entrepreneur well I think even
before paper I went to a fine arts high school and I used to do theater and dance competitive dance
and I think my work ethic kind of comes from being in that fine arts world because you know you have
to have really good work ethic but my love for theater and turning it on for like a crowd an
audience center of attention like that energy I think has always been able to be brought to my
content and I think it comes across very authentic because it is like that's who I am to the core
like you can tell when someone's putting on a show versus like when someone's genuinely that joyful
happy authentic so one of the things that we like to talk about on this podcast is mistakes
because we all make them in our careers but if you look at anyone's content you just see like
highlight real love one joy to another and that's not true oh yeah so I'm wondering if you can
tell me about a mistake that you've made in your career at any point and what you've learned from it
I think that my biggest mistake and this is so cheesy I know you're gonna roll your eyes at this
one but it's true me not believing in myself and in my content so early on like when I was in
Paris for example my mom was begging me she was like you watch so much YouTube I'm gonna buy you a
camera please start vlogging that's so sweet I know and I was like no I was like mom I was like
that's so embarrassing it was such a small group of like 80 kids and we all lived in the same dorm and
I had the craziest experiences when I was loving there like my friend went to jail in Greece like
I banned from me or we were like wasted in the Barcelona airport like the content would have been
so good like it's so funny and it's like a reality show on its own I have all these insane stories
and I wish I wish I wish that I believed in myself and I believed in my ability to create content
earlier on but at the same time I will get myself a little bit of grace and I think with every
mistake you have to give yourself grace because I didn't have the experiences to be able to help
me edit the videos or market the videos or you know I was like a baby so like even if I wasn't a
baby even if that was last year I would say to myself I still don't have those experiences that I do
now that I'm able to reflect on that and you know confidence is also a journey yes and if I had
a dollar for every person who sat down across from me and expressed regret about not feeling
confident in their abilities I would have a lot of dollars so you are not alone in that it is
a pretty universal experience I think so a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast are in their
first life they're working at paper they have not yet gone out on their own and they're scared
they know they want to do something different whether it's a big pivot or a little pivot but they
just haven't made that decision quite yet what advice would you give someone who is standing on
the precipice of a new world a new life a new career but just hasn't gotten the courage up to
jump quite yet believe in yourself like you're not gonna jump take a step really do believe in
yourself I think that is the best piece of advice that I wish I could go back in time and give my
younger self that I would just beat it into her head but like if you believe in yourself you
really are unstoppable and it may seem like a scary jump but in the grand scheme of things what's
even scarier is looking back and knowing that you had that moment you had that opportunity and you
didn't take it so my last question is also my favorite question which is if you could go back in time
and speak to a younger mirror at any point in your life and give her a little advice career advice
life advice make up advice whatever it may be what would you say I would say lay off the brows
girl but also I think I would say take your time with things don't rush things everything is going
to work out and it all takes time like my transition my life my career friendships everything like
it really does it takes time you can't rush things that are meant to be I love that well
Amira thank you so much for your time this has been such a pleasure to sit down with you and I
have to say just as one of the members of your community I have so enjoyed watching you over the
years you bring so much light and joy to everything that you do and I feel lucky that you share
all of that with us so thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you so much for having me this
was such a beautiful conversation that was model content creator and beauty influencer Amira
to Spain for more inspiring interviews with women like Amira head on over to secondlifepod.com
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