Padma Lakshmi: Television Host, Author, Food Expert, and Producer

This episode of Second Life is brought to you by the House of Chanel. Harnessing the revitalizing powers of the red chameleon flower, Chanel Research introduces a new generation of eco-responsible skin care, numeral on to Chanel, beauty ahead of time. Discover the collection at Chanel.com Chanel introduces a new generation of sustainably developed skin care, infused with a high concentration of ingredients, and derived from the uniquely revitalizing winter blooming red chameleon flower. Package with lightweight glass, organic ink, and other biobase materials, numeral on to Chanel forges an unprecedented path of skincare innovation. numeral on to Chanel, beauty ahead of time. To learn more about the line, visit Chanel.com. Hi everyone, I'm Hilary Kerr, the co-founder and chief content officer of Who Up Where, and this is Second Life, a podcast spotlighting women who have truly inspiring careers. We're talking about their work journeys, what they've learned from the process of setting aside their doubts or fears, and what happens when they embark on their Second Life. Today on the show, I'm speaking with television host, food expert, author, and producer, Padma Lakshmi. Padma is the ultimate multi-hyphenate. Today, she hosts and produced the critically acclaimed Docu series Taste the Nation, where she travels to immigrant communities across the United States to learn how their culture has shaped American food. You may also know her from her 19th season tenure as the Emmy nominated host and executive producer of Bravo's Competition Cooking Show Top Chef. And, if all of that isn't enough, she's also created several product lines, co-founded the Endometriosis Foundation of America, and written several books on food, including a New York Times bestselling memoir, love, loss, and what we ate. But, back before Padma was changing the food media landscape, she actually got her start as a supermodel. Padma walked the runways for designers like Gianni Versace and shot with photographers like Helmet Newton. I am so honored to share her beautiful and inspiring story, so with no further ado, now, on Second Life, it's Padma Lakshmi. I have to say, I am a long-time fan and have followed your career for ages and ages. It was so interesting doing some research for this podcast because your bio and the scope of your career feels like it could belong to about 15 different people. You've done so much. So, we have a lot to get into, but on this podcast, we like to start at the beginning. So, what did you study in school, and much more importantly, what did you think you were going to be when you grew up? I studied theater and American literature. And, you know, when I was four years old, I first came to America and the first profession I wanted to have was that of a flight attendant. We called them air hostesses in those days. Because to me, they were very glamorous. On air, India, they wore these beautiful printed silk sorries and their hair was in an up-do that was probably back-owned within an inch of its life, but looked beautiful. And I would see them rushing down the aisles or through the airport with their little Samsonite beauty case. And I thought, wow, they just look so in control of their lives. They have so much freedom. You get to travel the world, you know, so that seemed very glamorous to me. And so, obviously not a flight attendant, but if I think about it, I've actually come close in the sense that I do travel the world, and I do get to wear beautiful clothes if I want to. And you have independence, which I think is also one of the things that's fundamentally attractive about that job, certainly. Yeah, exactly. So, okay, you're studying in college. I know that you were interested in becoming an actress, which happened. But I'm interested in hearing a little bit more about how your modeling career took off because how does that even happen? You're in Spain. You're studying abroad. And then all of a sudden, you're a model. What is that trajectory? What was that like? I never thought that I could be a model. I thought I was pretty, but not that kind of pretty or that kind of perfection that I saw in magazines. And I also had a really long kiloidle scar on my arm. It's still there. And it was only when I was studying abroad in Spain and a friend of a friend saw me at a cafe. And he was a booker at a modeling agency called Jetset. His name was Fernando Marino. He was beautiful. He was the next model himself. And he just said, you know, I think you can model. And I said, well, I'm in school. And I don't want to ruin my GPA, which was true. He said, it's okay. You can just model after school. You don't have to take every job that comes to you. You know, it'll be your choice. It's not like a nine to five job. I didn't know anything about modeling or fashion or anything. And off I went to meet the owner of the agency. And they took a lot of measurements. And she really inspected me. And then, you know, I had this deep dark secret. It was winter. And I said, you know, I have to tell you something. And you're not going to like it. I have this scar on my arm. And it's really big. And it's really ugly and bad. And I sort of rolled up my sweater. And she just said, okay, you have a scar. We'll work around it. You still have a pretty face. You still are you. And that was really interesting to me. I had always felt so self-conscious about my scar, especially because it happened to me when I was 14 at such a tender time for all of us during adolescence. And she sent me right away to Elle Magazine, you know, sort of the phone rang. Another booker picked it up. And they said, oh, they need a fit model. They were going to do this big editorial. And they needed someone just to fit the clothes on. So the fashion editor could see how the outfits look together. So off I went to Elle. It was an interesting experience. You know, I didn't even know what a fit model was. And I learned that it was, you know, just the lowest wrong of modeling. And you just try the clothes on. And if they look good on you, they either go down the runway or they go on another model on a shoot. And that's what I did for a long time. I came back to America after that semester. I graduated with honors. Thank God I didn't mess up my GPA. And, you know, I had this degree in liberal arts. I had a degree in theater and literature, which qualified me to do nothing, basically. And I just thought I would go back and live with my mom and substitute teach or, you know, something. I didn't really know. And then I showed my Spanish modeling book to Nina Blanchard. And I showed her my scar as well. And she said, sure. And I said, I was going to New York to meet my boyfriend at the time. And she said, don't see any agents in New York. You're not ready. I will introduce you to Eileen Ford. But not yet. We need to build your book out. So it's better if you go in there at a more developed time in your career. And I honored that request. And I came back two weeks later as she had instructed to the agency. And she wasn't there that day. But a man named Jack was there who was president of the agency, I guess. And he looked at my scar. And he just said, I'm sorry. I know we told you that you could model. But I don't think it's feasible. You know, most of the work here in Los Angeles is advertising. And I was livid. I was in tears. And I went home. And my mother said, are you just going to take no for an answer like that? And so the next day I called Nina Blanchard. And I gave her a piece of my mind. And I said, you know, I don't have a lot of money. And I have a lot of student debt. And you told me not to see anybody in New York. And I didn't. And I was there for two weeks. And I could have found an agent who would be willing to take me. And she just said, I am willing to take you. And Jack is wrong. And I'm the owner. And you are part of Nina Blanchard. And that was it. Wow. How did it go from there? Because from the outside looking at your 20s, it really looks like a dream. You ended up working quite a lot. You're traveling all over Europe. You're working for designers like Gianni Versace and working with photographers like Helmet Newton, which is so mind blowing. I mean, that is literally iconic. How did you get there? And was that what you expected? I mean, how I got there was that that happened in end of May. When I first signed with Nina, they were right. I did commercials and I did a Folgers commercial for France and other things. And I'm modeling Scout from Milan came. And, you know, he saw a bunch of books in the office. And, you know, my mother lived almost an hour's drive from West Hollywood where Nina's office was at that time. So often I would bring my lunch in a little cooler. And I would sit in the back office and have my lunch. And I was scarfing down a whole ball of mozzarella. I remember very clearly. And BayZone tomato and my little Tupperware. Because I did love to eat. He was just looking at me scarfing down this food. And then, you know, that sort of made him take notice. And he said to Nina, he said, what about her? Can I take her? And Nina said, well, I'm kind of saving her for Paris. And he said, oh, come on, Nina. You know, I'll send her to Paris after she's in Milan for a bit. And so he paid my way to go to Milan. And that's how I wound up in Milan. And I worked a lot more in Europe to be frank than I did in America. I never had covers or anything like that. I would come to America to work. And I walked for Isaac Mizrahi. I walked for Ralph Lauren. But it was just hard. I think in the 90s, America was really a different place, both in the fashion world and in Hollywood. I felt more beautiful in Europe, actually. And, you know, I was still modeling as a fit model for runway shows. I've worked a lot with John Franco for a. And, you know, he had also spent a lot of time in India earlier in his curious way to talk about that while he was prepping his shows. And then I started doing a lot of runway. Alberta for ready. Her veil is a all of it. And I did a lot in Paris. And I loved the runway because it was a direct experience with whoever was sitting in the audience. You know, there's so much collaboration in photographs. And you don't know how they're going to come out. And now everything's on the internet. But before you had to chase your tear sheets. Keep them safe. And you'd put them in your little modeling book that you carried around to all these castings, where there were 200 girls just as pretty as you were if not more pretty. And, you know, it really had nothing to do with who you were as a person. It was a business. And I know it seems like I worked a lot. But it was not a happy time for me. I was finding my way every time I walked into a casting. I didn't know if my scar was going to be an issue. I didn't know how many brown girls or black girls they would allow. And I went through that. And it was very painful. And it's a soul crushing profession for many of us. But modeling was very good to me also, because I got to travel the world as a model. And I would have never had the resources as a young person to go to all those countries. And whenever I went to all those countries, I would ask the cab drivers where to eat. I would go to the food markets and Marrakesh, wherever I was, and I would explore, and I would come back with suitcases full of all these seeds and twigs and leaves and spices. And I was a wonderful time as a young person. I didn't obviously have any responsibilities. So I could just live my life as I wanted to out of a suitcase. And I think every young person deserves that privilege. You know, there's nothing more liberating than setting out into the world and seeing what's out there just to broaden your horizons. I mean, there was so much I learned just by walking the streets of Paris and Milan. I think I learned Spanish while I was studying abroad in Madrid really well, because I didn't hang around with the American students. I was working. So I was with people who spoke Spanish. I had to figure out what they were talking about. And this is the age where there was a ton of choreography also in the runway shows, where, you know, it was just a lot. And all of this was an education of sorts and was a good training, just as far as life experience. And, you know, I wanted to be an actor and I did act. And I started writing, you know, just on my own. Then I started co-hosting Dominican Inn, which was the highest rated show on Italian television at that time. I think it's still on. And I was sort of the head hosts sidekick. The way I got that job, because I spoke Italian, I would get called a lot to be interviewed backstage at fashion shows or, you know, go on late night shows. So I went on this late night show called Gigi Marzullo. And the host and the director had seen me on that show. And they thought I was really funny. And that is how I was invited to be part of the cast. And I was in Los Angeles visiting my mom when my agent called. And I thought he was joking. Like I literally was like, oh, yeah, hold on. I've got Spielberg on the other line. You know, I said of them. And he said, no, I'm serious. You need to come back to Italy. I said, okay, okay. And I didn't know if I wanted to do it at all. And I was nervous about it. And I thought I'd follow my face. But my agent was like, just try it. We'll just sign you up for half a season. So if you don't like it, it's four months of your life. And I said, okay. And I always tell young women. I mentor a couple of women. And I always tell them you never know when life is going to provide you with an opportunity that your younger self may not recognize as a good opportunity. But your older self may thank you for. And that was certainly the case with Dominica in. And overnight, I became well known. Not that that was the goal. But it was a real lesson for me because it also taught me how to deal with the paparazzi in Italy before I ever had any name recognition here in America. And it was a live show every Sunday from two to six. And it was a great training ground for me. You know, it was a variety show. So we would have performances by the Spice Girls or Backstreet Boys. And then we would interview Luke Besan who came on. And then we would interview an Italian politician. But we didn't have any script. We just had a flow chart. You know, that's how I started. And then a talent agent saw me on TV. And they heard me say that I was an actor, a theater student or something. And they were packaging a movie, which was a costume drama for Italian television. And they called my modeling agent up. And they said, you know, I think she'd be right for this part. And I went on the audition and I got the part. So I left the show mid season to go do that. And then I spent four months in Cuba filming this pirate movie effectively. This is the wildest story. And also, I keep thinking back to the fact that modeling at the end of the day, like you have to be really resourceful, right? Like you're in a city. You have to figure out how to get where you're going and do what you're doing. And how helpful that skill is as you continue to build your career. It's like, OK, now I'm on this TV show. And now I'm in Cuba. And it's like that resourcefulness of landing in a place, acclimating, juggling multiple projects. Certainly has served you well, it seems. Yeah, I mean, look, you know, my mother is a retired nurse now. But she was a nurse and my stepdad is a plumber. Like I didn't have access to the information at all that I needed to be in entertainment. I just figured it out as I went along. I was flying by the seat of my pants a lot and just using my instincts and learning every day on the job. Yeah. And that's still true. Like even on Taste the Nation, I'm learning every day. You know, I am the creator of that show. And I have my hand in every aspect of the show. But before Taste the Nation, I can count on one hand how many people I had interviewed. You know, so I've always had to learn fast. Fast learner on the fly, staying curious and always adapting. These are wonderful life skills to have in any profession or just to be a human, in my opinion. I want to talk about the pipeline to food because obviously food has always been something that was important to you. And there's not typically a supermodel to food expert pipeline per se. We're certainly not one that I know of. So tell me about the precise moment that you knew you wanted to pursue something in the food world as well. Where it was more than just a passion for eating well or being interested in local cuisine but something much larger that would then lead to your first book. When I first published Easy Exotic, you know, a lot of people raised their eyebrows and were really skeptical and snarky. Well, we know what a model eats, you know, cocaine and cigarettes. And I was just like, I always love to cook. But beyond a chef with a white chef's hat, I didn't really know that it was a profession. And it wasn't until, you know, my mid-twenties or maybe a little bit in college that I started reading some food writing from MFK Fisher who to this day I still look to for inspiration. And even when college wouldn't have any money at all as a work study student, I would save money and buy a cookbook. And then my roommates and I would pick a couple of recipes and we'd pull our money and buy groceries and we would make that. And that was our entertainment for Friday or Saturday night or whatever. And someone would buy a bottle of Boone's farm or whatever. You know, I always knew how to cook Asian Indian food because of my family. But being in Europe for six years in my twenties taught me a lot about European cooking technique. And I learned just through my fork, just eating. And so, you know, that first movie that I went to do, the director made me gain 20 pounds. And then after the movie came out, you know, I was still making my living as a model. And I'd never tried to lose the weight before. And I had said, you know, I always fantasize about writing a cookbook because everyone wants to know what a model eats. And now that I'm losing weight by changing the recipes I make, I know how to do it because before the truth is I never had to. And that is how the first cookbook happened. And, you know, easy exotic. It's a very modest offering. I cringe at the name now when I think of it. It's a product of its time, I believe, the name. Yes, but in my defense, I will say that I'm still doing on Tastination or Top Chef, the same thing I was doing in that book, which is trying to make the unfamiliar, more familiar and approachable, whether it's immigrant communities on Tastination or, you know, whether it's some hard challenge and fine dining on Top Chef, I'm still translating. That's what I've always had to do as a person in the Indian diaspora for my American friends. And so I continue to do that today. It's really interesting. It's also interesting how the cookbook was really well received, which I feel like boated well for your future. But, you know, it won an award at the Gormonde World Cookbook Awards. That must have felt incredible to try this new aspect of your career and to have it so well received. Were you thinking about next steps or where that would take you or what doors that would open, or was it still sort of experiencing and going along with the opportunities that the universe presented you with? I think it was just pushing against the open door, going with whatever was possible. You know, I remember when I was alerted that I won, and it was in Versailles, the award ceremony, and I didn't even have enough money to go. You know, so there were good years and there were lean years, so like, you know, I mean, I could probably scrape it together. But I asked a theater professor of mine who the book is dedicated to go and accept the award for me, because I just couldn't go. And I had gone on the food network as part of my book tour to publicize it and they asked me back right away, like three weeks after they wanted me back. And then I went on it again, and I did have an acting manager at that time, and she sort of piped up and said, hey, if you want to back a third time, you're going to have to pay her. And they said, actually, we're thinking of offering you a development deal. And that is how I got my first cooking show on the food network called Melting Pot. And it was Padma's passport on the Melting Pot series. That's amazing. Was this exciting to you? Were you feeling like, wow, like to your point earlier, pushing an open door? But I also like, at the same time, you've been exploring, being an actor, modeling is still a thing, and then you wrote this book. How did you know what area to sort of apply more attention to? And then also, sometimes the things that we're good at and that the world recognizes and the things that we love don't always line up. Oh, believe me, I know. Were you experiencing any of that? Like, wow, like, why is this part working and this part not as much? Or did you just love how it was all playing together? I'm curious about your mentality at that moment in time. Sure. I did the cookbook just as a lark because I love cookbooks, you know? And I don't think anybody thought it was going to be successful or go anywhere, including me. But then it did win this prize. And the food network was knocking on my door. And I was terrified. I made my mom fly in. You know, we had all these books that we bought. And she could be backstage and research the spices I was using, or the origins of the dishes that I was demonstrating. You know, it was a typical stand and stir show. It was only on for one season. And it was live to tape. So we could edit it a little bit, but not really. I mean, in those days, you know, I'm talking like 2000 or 2001. You know, so it was pretty primitive. And we taped like five shows a day. Whoa. Yeah. We banged all the shows at once. So it was very grueling. It was very tiring. You know, I wore a lot of my same clothes that I had, which were the clothes of a 20-something model. So, you know, but I still dress however the fuck I want. Because I rail against this idea that we should fit into this very specific box that, you know, if you're serious or an authority on something that you then are too above caring what you look like, or that you can't be enjoying that aspect of your identity. And I think that was hard also because, you know, the Food Network is owned by Scripps. And they're a very conservative company. And I am many things, but I'm not conservative. And listen, it was a great experience being on the Food Network. All those people are wonderful. And I am so glad that I had that experience with them because I learned a lot just, you know, being backstage about food and how to make a TV show. And so all of it is education. You know, even though it was one season, like I could have said no, because yes, I wanted to be an actor. But on the other hand, you know, burden hand is better than two in the tree. Yeah. You know, this is one thing I tell people all the time. Like it takes a while to become who you're going to become. And so I was doing that show. I was writing. I was going on auditions as an actor. I was still modeling occasionally. And all of those jobs together made my living. But any one of those things, you know, was not enough. And so when you're asking me, what did I pay attention to, you know, how did I prioritize? I just paid attention to whatever was going to give me a check for my rent. And it was a very reasonable way to look at things. I'm also wondering what the learning curve was like, because I have to be honest, like I cannot imagine a world in which you are not a natural and charismatic host. But I also know that there's a huge skill set that also goes along with that. And I didn't want to discount that. So while you obviously had experience in a variety of ways, was there anything that surprised you about being in front of the camera specifically for a show that was about food in this point in your career as you were learning? Because being in front of a camera for one thing is different from being in front of a camera for something else. I'm wondering what your experience was like. It isn't, it isn't. So what surprised me on Dominica Inn was that I was not nervous. I mean, I was nervous. I was really terrified. But it wasn't my own country. And nobody could see it back home. You know, it was in another language. So I had this kind of innocent hotspot that I don't know that I would have today. And also it's a different time. But, you know, I thrive on live television. I love live television. I hate cooking on live television because, you know, with all those cooking demos and I do them, I'm forced to do them every season when Top Chef comes out or taste the nation. You know, I can't give you like a four-course meal in five minutes or less. So you don't, you know, other than cooking on live television, I love live television. I think there's something about me that is quick on her feet and actually in the moment, I don't have time to think too hard about how am I looking, how am I sounding. I'm just trying to be entertaining or informative or whatever the job is on camera because dead air is suicide. And so I had huge amounts of imposter syndrome about my knowledge of food, my experience in food, because I hadn't gone to culinary school. I hadn't ever worked behind the line in a professional kitchen. I had never assisted a chef in any way. So I approach it really as an eater. And I love to cook and I'm a really great cook. And that's who my audience is. You know, I don't care about being a professional chef. I've been asked across my career, you know, did I want my own restaurant? And I've always said, hell no, I don't want my own restaurant. That's not my corner of the food universe. I'm not interested in it. I mean, I'm interested in it as an eater. And I admire it. And I know the work and skill and acumen that goes into it. But that's not what attracts me to food. You know, what attracts me to food is making it in my home, is teaching other people how to make it through my writing for my videos on Instagram. And I'm cooking for the home cook. I'm writing for the home cook. And so when I first got the job on top chef, I had huge imposter syndrome for several years. I just fought my way through it. I just did it anyway. But it was painful for me behind the scenes. You know, it was. So let's talk about top chef. So we're fast forwarding a few years. Now it's 2006 and top chef premiered. It's season one. You're not on it, which pains me. But tell me about how you got approached for the show because you joined in season two. How did that happen? What did you know about the show? Did you see what this opportunity was? I mean, no one could really imagine it fully. But I mean, it's the magical elves at that point. So they knew what they were doing, right? I mean, I didn't know who the hell magical elves was. I really didn't. I'm being honest. The only thing I watched on Bravo was the actor studio, which I loved. Yes. But I pitched a show to Bravo. Because by that time I had also done Planet Food. And you know, if you watch Planet Food, all of the ingredients of what I do on Tastination are there, but with better hair, because I was very young. And it's a precursor to Bourdain as well, you know. But I had pitched a show to Bravo. And they just thought that they couldn't afford to do that show. But they were developing Top Chef. And they wanted to know if I wanted to be a part of that. And I said, sure. And then I talked to the producers. I met with Andy Cohen and Dave Sriracha. And I didn't like reality television at all. I still don't watch it. But I thought, OK, let's do this. You never know. And so what happened was I said I would do it. I was developing the show. We had a lot of conversations about it in New York. And then I was still auditioning as an actor. I was still writing. I was still modeling. And I got cast in a movie for British television with Sean Bean was very excited about this movie. The Top Chef gig was just a money gig. Also because I was writing my second cookbook. And I thought it would give my cookbook a little push. So when they were ready to film, I said, I can't film because I've got this acting job. And I'm going away for six weeks to film it in Rajasthan. And I said, will you wait for me? I can see if they can shift around the dates a little bit. And they didn't even want to wait for weeks for me. And they cast somebody else who also has a great career now on the Food Network. And they did the first season of Top Chef without me. Then in season two, they said, well, are you free now? And I said, yeah, I am free. So I came on the show in season two. And that's why I'm not in season one, but I started in season two. I did know about the show. And obviously it was easier to gauge the show once there was a season. I think they hadn't gotten a lot of the kinks out. But the bones of Top Chef were there in that first season. And I was like, okay, I'll do this. And what was appealing to me is that we filmed very quickly. We filmed in six weeks. And then the finale took another 10 days or so to do. And so I was like two months of my life, you know, with hell. Sure. And like I said, I literally did it because I thought it would help my cookbook. Well, I mean, it's not going to hurt that. So I know that it's impossible to really describe a job that you had for over 17 years. But I'm curious about how your journey evolved over that period of time. I know you were really hands on. How did new challenges come up? How did you expand your skill set over that time? What were the biggest learnings and takeaways from that job? A lot of it was just being a good host. And I've learned from my mother how to be a good host in my home. It's not much different. It's just on a very high stakes level. And part of being a good host is drawing other people out and giving them space to talk. Often at the expense of your own personality, shining through. And so those early years of top chef, they also wanted me to be really stern and really serious. I take direction well. I did that. And so it was hard because what you saw of me on top chef was such a slim sliver of who I am as a person. And so over the years, you know, I would suggest challenges. And I would just learn about different parts of making that show. And my struggle on top chef is really to be myself and show empathy. And I really felt for these chefs. And the real stars of our show are the chefs. You know, top chef is successful because of our contestants. And I think we did a really good job of not playing to the lowest common denominator. As was the trend when we first started on reality television. And I didn't want to do that. Like I said, I didn't watch any of those shows. I didn't care about them. I cared about the food. And I think Gail also did. And so did Tom. And so that was really important to us to also eat the food while it's hot. I just have a lot of empathy for these chefs because I'm there every day with them. And I see what they go through. And as difficult as top chef seems on television, it's much harder in real life. And Tom and Gail come there every other day for the big challenge. But I'm there also eating their food during the quick fires with the guest judge. And it's a lot. And so I think over the years, you just saw who I was. I think it's just that. Like I'm playing a version of myself obviously because the role dictates that. But over the years, just my emotional connection to the chefs, I think, becomes more and more apparent because the camera doesn't lie. And you can't fake that whether you're a host or an actor, you have to feel something. It has to come from a genuine place. At least that's how I feel. And over the years, I just felt more empowered, I guess. Yeah, I guess I'm just curious about, you know, we talk about changes a lot on this podcast. And obviously you've had a lot of those as well. But I'm also intrigued by what keeps someone in a job or working on a project or collaborating. What was it that really held your attention for all that time? I mean, I think the fact that it only takes two months to shoot was a big part of it. That's honest. Yeah, I mean, but also, you know, I say it only took two months and it did to physically film. But my body took a really big beating on top chef. The hours are grueling. I mean, tight dresses in high heels, on concrete, 10 seasons to just get a rubber mat under my feet. And, you know, a lot of those chefs have really big egos. Not our contestants, but a lot of the guest judges too. So there's a lot of like people management, you know, as well. But I thought it was a great show, you know, I thought there was really a lot of value and merit to it. And of its genre, even if I don't care about game shows or reality television, I do care very deeply about food. And of its ilk, top chef is still the gold standard. And there are a bazillion copycat shows on every network and streamer. But top chef is still Mount Olympus to me. And so I became very protective of that. I feel a great pride in what we've achieved over 20 seasons. I think we changed not only food television, but we also just changed how the world looks at food. Top chef is in 174 territories around the world. And it's also got 29 franchises. So, you know, having that kind of impact and having a voice in food that grew over that time. It didn't happen overnight. It really took years and years. It was important to me. And I saw the value in it. Even though it was always hard from start to finish. What happened when I first started is that I don't think Bravo did as good a job as they could have to publicize the fact that I had published a cookbook or two that I had done other shows on the food network. And because we were the sister show to project runway, I think they just assumed that Bravo having the brand that it does just found another model and stuck her in there. People underestimated me a lot. And just, you know, we're like, okay, she's the host or whatever. And a lot of people on the actual show too, I will add. But over the years, just the performance of the show and my evolution along with all of my crew and cast speaks for itself. And I love being underestimated. Bring it on. So hearing about this impact, understanding how much it changed not only your life, but mine and the worlds. You recently announced that you were leaving the show. How did you come to that decision? How long did it take for you to really wrap your head around it? Because I think sometimes we wake up and we make a decision and sometimes it's years in the making. I'm curious about that process for you because knowing when to leave the party is a skill set of its own. Yes, it is. If you look at my role on top chef, the way that I inhabit it has changed significantly. But the actual function and job I do hasn't changed that much. And I just needed to grow. And for many years, because of the exclusivity clause in my contract, I couldn't do other things. Even though you only filmed for two months, I couldn't audition for things. I couldn't do other TV shows on prime time. I would never say that contract today, but I didn't know any better. You know, I didn't know what I was doing and I couldn't do a lot of things. And it was only in the last few years that that exclusivity listened up. And that's when I was able to branch out and that's when I was able to pitch other shows. So, Tastination came about, but Tastination also took a while. You know, a lot of people turn Tastination down. It is true what they say. It is extremely hard to be a woman in Hollywood. And it is even harder to be a brown woman in Hollywood. You know, I don't care if people think it's not. It is. And unless you've walked in my body or someone else of color's body, you don't understand that. And so, you asked a question about how did I decide to leave top chef? I thought it was time. I had done what I set out to do with that show, with the help of my whole crew. You know, we all grew up on that show. My daughter grew up on that show. We've all been through so much. If I had a baby at the time I started top chef, that baby would now be going off to college. So, it's time anyway. But I wanted to do other things. I wanted to expand my footprint on television creatively. I also wanted to go back to scripted television. And so now I'm developing projects for myself. You know, one is for me just to produce that I think is a beautiful story that we've optioned. And we don't know yet if it's a movie or a scripted series. We're still in the very early stages of it. Another project is with a very seasoned director. And he wants me to act in it. And I keep saying, I'll be an executive producer. But let's see if I'm going to act in it. Because, you know, if I put my producer hat on, I want to do what's best for the show. But, you know, there are all these things that I wanted to do. And I just, I'm very proud of Tastination and top chef. They're so different. The only thing that connects them is that they're both food shows. And last year, I just spent eight months on the road. And I'm a single mom. And I don't want to be away from my daughter unless I really have to be. And so it was untenable and unsustainable to keep two shows going. And it was just time. It had run its course for me. And, you know, I love them. I'm rooting for them. They're like my family. And so it's very painful to leave something that you care about so much. And it was very painful for me. I mean, when I spoke to my executive producer, Dani, and I mean, she and I were crying on the phone. It's not a decision I made lightly. But it's a decision that I made with great conviction. I will say that. By the time I left top chef, there was no doubt in my mind that it was time to go. What your saying reminds me of something that Monica Padman said on this podcast a while ago, which is that there is no growth without some pain or loss. And I think that that sounds a little bit like your experience, like knowing that was time to move forward to try other things. It still can be bittersweet. Yes, it's a very true quote. There's always pain where something grows. That's part of it. So I just thought it's now or never. And my contract was up. And I just, I've wanted to focus more on taste the nation. I mean, taste the nation and grosses me intellectually. It is my baby. And it's very rare in the world of television to think of an idea in your head and to actually get to make the show. And then actually have the show come out exactly as you wanted it to. And then have the television audience really love your show. That is like lightning in a bottle. Yeah. And I'll be honest, like I don't know if Hulu is going to renew taste the nation for another season yet. They haven't told me. And it's totally at their discretion. And so if they don't, I could be out of both my shows. So I did take a risk, but I'm willing to take that risk on myself. Right. Because if I don't believe in myself, how can I expect anyone else to and bring me projects that are more commensurate with who I am today in my career and intellectually and as a person and as a creative artist. So I know that this would probably be difficult because you have such a plethora of moments to choose from. But of all of the different projects that you've worked on throughout your career, are there any specific moments or projects that you are particularly proud of as you look back on all that you have already accomplished and are assessing what is next? I approached my work as a writer first. That's the stuff that, you know, it's not as shiny as a big show, splashy show. I'm hugely proud of my memoir when it got a good write-up in the New York Times and, you know, the Times of India and all that. I was very, very happy about that because that was a very grueling five-year ordeal. I just felt so vulnerable. And I love memoirs and I knew that for mine to be even decent, I had to be brutally honest. And so that was a very hard project to do. So I'm incredibly proud of my memoir. And I'm also proud of this travel anthology that I did. I know it sounds weird, but I'd never written a long-form literary essay. I had a syndicated column on food and fashion for the New York Times a long time ago, like when I was modeling and acting and writing and doing food, all this stuff. And I also wrote for Anna at Vogue a couple of times. I also wrote for Harper's Bazaar. I had a style column for a while at Harper's Bazaar, where, you know, I had to deliver four or five articles a year. And I also wrote for Harper's Bazaar in England as well. So, you know, my writing is important to me, but I have never done any serious literary writing. And so when they came to me to, you know, those best of series, like we all had in literary class, like best of short stories or whatever, they asked me to edit the best American travel writing of 2020. And I was like, who said no, that you came to me? They were like, no, no, no, we really want you to do it. And of course, 2020 was a pandemic. And I was like, what kind of travel writing is this? This is a trap, you know, or a practical joke. It was sort of the same way I answered that phone way back when the Italian show called. But I wanted to do it as a challenge. And I was terrified of doing it too. And I, you know, sent the essay to a few writer friends who I trust. And that I'm very proud of. I know it's a very small endeavor that not many people will see, but I'm really proud of that. Because to be asked to edit something in a literary form, to me is the highest compliment. And the same Gormando words also gave me a prize for love loss and what we ate. And so that was kind of cool. And didn't go to that one either because it was in China and I was working. And then the children's book also, you know, I'm hugely proud of the children's book because what I want my legacy to be is to just teach people about food and family and love. And I think that the children's book does that. I achieve that. So I'm proud of those things, but nothing feels as sweet as Taste the Nation. I will say the memoir feels very gratifying. But Taste the Nation is such a gift that I've been given that I really love going to work every day. And no matter how early I have to wake up and no matter how late I have to go to sleep, I love going to work every single day on Taste the Nation. I love my producers. I work very, very hand in hand with them. I go to every color correction. I go to every sound mixing for post production. You know, I write the voice over with a post supervising producer. And I'm learning so much. So, you know, all these wheels are turning in my head. And, you know, I think the greatest gift anyone can have is to be able to do what they love and make a living out of it. And I think I've been very fortunate in that I've been able to pursue what naturally interests me through my professional life. And there were a lot of things about top chef that were very challenging and very difficult. But it gave me such an education on food and also on human relations. It's also interesting that as you look back, it's like, and this makes sense, of course. But the projects that meant the most to you are also some of the most personal ones. Yeah. I think the thing any young person can do is try to develop their own voice and their own point of view. And the only way you can do that is through travel and experience and trying new things. And it's easier to do that when you're young, but it's never too late. You know, I was 49 before anyone ever gave me the chance to create my own show. And I had to learn, you know, I'd never been in color correction. I didn't know what sound mixing was really. And so it's never too late. And I think it's really important to grow. I think it's really important to try new things. And, you know, the first order of business is obviously making sure you can pay your bills and take care of the people you love. But after that, you owe it to yourself to expand your horizons and learn new things and stimulate your mind and your heart and your intellect. I think those things are what give us joy in life other than family and food. Very much so. So one of the things we'd like to talk about on this podcast is mistakes because everyone makes them. But we don't always talk about it. It tends to be the highlight reel on Instagram. Yeah. But that's perhaps not the whole truth. So I'm hoping that you can tell me about a mistake that you've made at any point in your career and what you've learned from it. Oh, sure, lots of mistakes. Even when I was modeling, I just did what I want. And I wasn't really serious about modeling the way I'm serious about everything else in my career. Because it felt so surreal. It felt so out of my control. You know, there were a lot of times when I would go on jobs for catalogs or whatever. And I didn't understand that it's a business and the business is selling clothes. And that is what you are there to do. You're not there to give your opinion. You're not there to say this isn't your style. You make it your style. You are a human hanger and you bring life to that garment. You know, that took me a long time to learn. And I did learn after a while. And just like, you know, I never wore sunblock before I was 35. That's a mistake. I regret smoking. I used to smoke cigarettes. I remember actually in women's wear daily in the 90s that was an article about model smoking. And they used a picture of me backstage. And we have sort of had a cigarette in my hand. And I wish I hadn't smoked. And I mean, like I said, I wish I had known to negotiate my contract better when I first started top chef and for the first few years. But I just didn't have any power. I didn't have access to a good agent who could fight on my behalf. And I certainly didn't have anybody in the entertainment business. You know, for Padma's passport, even my first show on the Food Network, it was based on all the recipes from Easy Exotic. And I should have been a producer on that show because it was my intellectual property. Yeah. And I just didn't know any better. Oh, that pains me. So a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast are in their first lives. They know that they want to try other aspects of their career, but they're nervous or they're scared. Maybe they don't know quite how to make that pivot. Maybe the door that they want to push doesn't feel a jar. As someone who has done a multitude of things and so beautifully and in such interesting ways. What advice would you give someone who's standing there thinking about trying something new, but just hasn't quite managed to muster up the courage to do it? I think you have to do a lot of soul searching and you have to pay attention to what gives you joy. And I know that sounds very corny, but what I mean by that is you want to make a move. You know, you don't want to be doing what you're doing. But you know, life is life and you need to pay your rent or you're afraid to leave the job because you don't know if there'll be another one. You know, that is a scary place to be even at my level. It was a scary place to be a few weeks ago and still is. But I think you can always educate yourself because you know, I have a lot of anxiety. And when I feel anxious and nervous, the only way I know to calm down my anxiety is to put that energy into some kind of research or work that's going to a lay those feelings of insecurity. You know, I never thought I wanted to career in food. I didn't know I could have one, but I love to cook. So on my own, on my free time, that's all I did. You know, I wanted to go to little holes in the walls. I wanted to eat all kinds of different foods. So, you know, even though I was a model and I had nothing to do with food, that's what I gravitated to. So just try to immerse yourself in the world that you want to be in even, you know, in small incremental steps and stack it so that you can get to the point where you can leave one job. In order to get another. I'm very risk averse. I am not somebody who takes risks lightly. I mean, leaving top chef is probably the biggest risk I've ever taken in my life. So my last question, also my favorite question. We've touched on it a little bit. But if you could take a time machine and go back and give your younger self some advice, life advice, career advice, contract advice, what would you say? I understand that there's no way you can know everything about what you're going to do. But understand that somebody does and it's your job to get to that person and educate yourself. It's your job to find the resources that you need because that will empower you. Knowledge is power, you know, it sounds so tight, but it's true. I wish I had asked anybody on set, how does other talent like do their contracts? I'm sure I could have, you know, found out, like, well, they have entertainment lawyers and that, you know, it all goes back to education though, right? Yeah, I mean, you can educate yourself as thoroughly as you need to if you're willing to put in the work. It is hard work. You know, we all have this dream of being, you know, at least in the arts that it's just going to magically appear and you're going to just get discovered. But actually, it's a lot of work. The creativity is just one part of your profession. The rest is very grueling and hustle and a lot of long hours that nobody sees. You know, I mean, people love to taste the nation and I'm so proud of it, but they don't know how much research goes into each episode. Even before we ever get on a plane or even before we do casting, right? You know, it's such a research, heavy show, but also I was able to craft a show that played to all of my nerdy interests. I love history, I love culture, you know, I love traveling, I love food. So, you know, that's what taste the nation is. It is a product of all the things that my imagination gravitates to naturally. Well, I guess it all comes back to betting on yourself too. And I also just have to say that I'm so glad that all of your work experiences allowed you to come to this place on this specific show where it sounds like you get to show up as your whole self. Yes, it's wonderful. It's actually so liberating. And that is how I pitched it. When I pitched it to Hulu, you know, six or seven networks and streamers had already turned me down. And I was really brow beaten. I remember I would pack my little suitcase and I would go to LA doing these pitch meetings and I would come back with my little wheelie and my daughter Christian would be like, did you sell it? And then I'd like, no, you know, sorry, mommy didn't sell it yet. And then when Hulu wanted to meet me, I was like, I'm not going to LA. I'll do a Skype call. This was even before I don't know something. And when I pitched it, I just didn't care anymore. I cursed, I pitched the show exactly how I wanted to do it. You know, when you go on these pitch meetings, it's your idea and it's your show and it's your concept. But you always do wind up tweaking it a little bit to the personality of the network or what they're trying to do. But in this case, I hadn't watched much that was on Hulu. And so I just said exactly what I wanted to say without any filter at all. And I'm lucky that they allowed me to be my whole self. And whatever my next project is, whether it's a scripted show, a movie, or, you know, another documentary series, I know that I'd want it to be something that has my whole self in it. I don't want to do anything that is less than what taste the nation is. And I'm sure there'll be times in my career where that will happen because it's part of life in my profession. But I do know that I have a lot to express still. And that was also part of why I left Top Chef because I needed to make negative space in my life and in my calendar to be able to pursue some of those interests. And while I'm very thankful for everything Top Chef has given me and it's given me a platform. It's allowed me to speak on a number of issues. I don't think I would have been able to start the Endometriosis Foundation of America without the platform that Top Chef gave me. And that is one of the things I'm super proud of is my work in women's reproductive health as well. And so I don't take lightly everything that I've gained for Top Chef, but I just have to keep growing. Yes, you do. Well, Padma, thank you so much for your time. This was such an honor and a pleasure. And I just know our audience is going to lose their minds because this was phenomenal. Thank you so much for having me on your show. I really appreciate all your thoughtful questions. Thank you. That was TV host author and Emmy-nominated producer Padma Luxring. For more inspiring interviews with women like Padma, head on over to secondlifepod.com where we have so many more for you to peruse. If you like today's show, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review us. We love seeing spread the word on social. And now you can tag us in your posts. We are at Second Life Pod on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. We always want to know who you're interested in hearing from on the show. So send in your requests to helloatsecondlifepod.com or you can DM us on Instagram. I'm at Hillary Curr. The show is at Second Life Pod. Our DMs are always open. I'm Hillary Curr and you've been listening to Second Life. This episode was produced by Hillary Curr, Summer Hammerist, and Natalie Thurman. Our audio engineers are at Treehouse Recording in Los Angeles, California. And our music is by Jonathan Leahy.